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EU rejects Theresa May’s Irish Border proposals,
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster." Is leaving without a trade deal an option ? | |||
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" Is leaving without a trade deal an option ? " Not only is it an option, but it is the favoured outcome of many in the eurosceptic/brexit camp. Of course any such result also means the UK breaking the Good Friday Agreement and that in my view will lead to a re-ignition of the troubles in Ireland. | |||
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"Most intelligent people would accept a customs union option, especially as it's going to be the least economically damaging to the UK - it's a no brainer. " . I said right from the outset that the Norwegian model was the best option for both parties. It allows for some immigration control while keeps the mainstay of the EU side happy. Plus you know what your getting as it's already been in use for decades | |||
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"It means there is still some way to go before the crunch meeting that comes up with a fudge and the can gets kicked a little further down the street." It's a dead in street and they will be kicking the can agents a wall this time , they have run out of road | |||
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"One thing that gives me a wry smile are those commentators and politicians who say a hard border in Ireland must be avoided at all costs - and then talk about posting troops along the Scottish border as their counter to the independence. They must think the average voter is stupid." The average voter is not stupid, in fact they are quite intelligent really. The problem is they are like octopus, their memory only lasts a day, they sleep they forget and then need to relearn all they have forgotten. For this they have the red tops, fail, excess and torygraph to reeducate them and remind them that if Labour says it is a good idea its a commie plot but when Tories adopt the policy after doing years of damage then it is a visionary move years ahead of its time.  | |||
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"One thing that gives me a wry smile are those commentators and politicians who say a hard border in Ireland must be avoided at all costs - and then talk about posting troops along the Scottish border as their counter to the independence. They must think the average voter is stupid. The average voter is not stupid, in fact they are quite intelligent really. The problem is they are like octopus, their memory only lasts a day, they sleep they forget and then need to relearn all they have forgotten. For this they have the red tops, fail, excess and torygraph to reeducate them and remind them that if Labour says it is a good idea its a commie plot but when Tories adopt the policy after doing years of damage then it is a visionary move years ahead of its time. "What a load of condescending bollocks! Where are you on your imaginary voter spectrum? | |||
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"One thing that gives me a wry smile are those commentators and politicians who say a hard border in Ireland must be avoided at all costs - and then talk about posting troops along the Scottish border as their counter to the independence. They must think the average voter is stupid. The average voter is not stupid, in fact they are quite intelligent really. The problem is they are like octopus, their memory only lasts a day, they sleep they forget and then need to relearn all they have forgotten. For this they have the red tops, fail, excess and torygraph to reeducate them and remind them that if Labour says it is a good idea its a commie plot but when Tories adopt the policy after doing years of damage then it is a visionary move years ahead of its time. " I think Octopuses have more enduring memories than you suggest  UK voters to seem to have become accustomed to having their favourite red top newspaper influencing their voting choice (that's if it's not done via Fbook, Cambridge Analytica etc). | |||
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"What a load of condescending bollocks! Where are you on your imaginary voter spectrum?" Condescending? Maybe. But please tell me which part of what I have said is bollocks? | |||
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"It means there is still some way to go before the crunch meeting that comes up with a fudge and the can gets kicked a little further down the street." | |||
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"One thing that gives me a wry smile are those commentators and politicians who say a hard border in Ireland must be avoided at all costs - and then talk about posting troops along the Scottish border as their counter to the independence. They must think the average voter is stupid. The average voter is not stupid, in fact they are quite intelligent really. The problem is they are like octopus, their memory only lasts a day, they sleep they forget and then need to relearn all they have forgotten. For this they have the red tops, fail, excess and torygraph to reeducate them and remind them that if Labour says it is a good idea its a commie plot but when Tories adopt the policy after doing years of damage then it is a visionary move years ahead of its time. "Your memory (and other Remainers) doesn't seem to be too good Will. Have you and other remainers forgotten already that the EU agreed the UK will leave the customs union as part of the phase 1 Brexit negotiations last December (just 4 short months ago). It was in the phase 1 agreement text that the UK and the EU jointly published and stated that the UK will leave the customs union. The EU then said in January they wanted the phase 1 agreement to be made legally binding. It is now in the process of being made legally binding. We're now legally binded to leave the customs union as stated in the phase 1 agreement text. | |||
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"One thing that gives me a wry smile are those commentators and politicians who say a hard border in Ireland must be avoided at all costs - and then talk about posting troops along the Scottish border as their counter to the independence. They must think the average voter is stupid. The average voter is not stupid, in fact they are quite intelligent really. The problem is they are like octopus, their memory only lasts a day, they sleep they forget and then need to relearn all they have forgotten. For this they have the red tops, fail, excess and torygraph to reeducate them and remind them that if Labour says it is a good idea its a commie plot but when Tories adopt the policy after doing years of damage then it is a visionary move years ahead of its time.
Your memory (and other Remainers) doesn't seem to be too good Will. Have you and other remainers forgotten already that the EU agreed the UK will leave the customs union as part of the phase 1 Brexit negotiations last December (just 4 short months ago). It was in the phase 1 agreement text that the UK and the EU jointly published and stated that the UK will leave the customs union. The EU then said in January they wanted the phase 1 agreement to be made legally binding. It is now in the process of being made legally binding. We're now legally binded to leave the customs union as stated in the phase 1 agreement text. "He isn't a remainer though, is he? Once again your "cut n' paste" tabloid bullshit response is tried, and found wanting. | |||
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"I thought we were the ones meant to be dictating terms to the EU? "LOL. 'The easiest negotiations ever'. | |||
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"Your memory (and other Remainers) doesn't seem to be too good Will. Have you and other remainers forgotten already that the EU agreed the UK will leave the customs union as part of the phase 1 Brexit negotiations last December (just 4 short months ago). It was in the phase 1 agreement text that the UK and the EU jointly published and stated that the UK will leave the customs union. The EU then said in January they wanted the phase 1 agreement to be made legally binding. It is now in the process of being made legally binding. We're now legally binded to leave the customs union as stated in the phase 1 agreement text. "It is strange, yours and my memories differ on the point you make. I was quite sure that the agreement to move onto part 2 of the talks was made on the understanding that no agreement had been reached over the Irish border issue and that the Republic had a veto on all parts of the agreement if a way was not found to keep the border status quo. Also I seem to remember the Maybot and BoJo claiming that they would be able to keep an open border and leave the customs union. I also seem to remember many here calling that bollocks at the time and you centy crowing about how brexit would have its cake and eat it, seems you BoJo and the Maybot may have got that wrong. I wonder how much more you have got wrong? And by the way my comment about 'red tops' and the media giving the British public their opinions every day was a general political comment and not about brexit, other than it is just another part of the dysfunction and disconnect with reality that is present day British politics. And just to be clear the Irish border issue is an international bilateral treaty between the UK and Ireland and nothing to do with the EU except that brexit is forcing the British government to choose between placing a hard border in the Irish sea or on the Irish border because as you so rightly point out we are leaving the single market and customs union. | |||
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"Why is it simply assumed that violence will resume in Ireland as a result of these border issues? That the good people of Ireland will want to forego peaceful existence and return to living in fear? I understand the border/no border issue needs resolution, but why assume that violence will ensue? " Because that is what Irish division and the border has bred for 100 years, in fact that is what British subjugation of the Irish has bred since the first Tudor plantations of Ireland in the 1550's. | |||
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"Why is it simply assumed that violence will resume in Ireland as a result of these border issues? That the good people of Ireland will want to forego peaceful existence and return to living in fear? I understand the border/no border issue needs resolution, but why assume that violence will ensue? Because that is what Irish division and the border has bred for 100 years, in fact that is what British subjugation of the Irish has bred since the first Tudor plantations of Ireland in the 1550's." But we now live in the 21st century, not the dark ages. Why the resort to violence? What could it possibly achieve as a positive outcome? | |||
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"But we now live in the 21st century, not the dark ages. Why the resort to violence? What could it possibly achieve as a positive outcome?" Really? You see no reason why there may be a return to violence even though the Maybot perusing Henry VIII lawmaking powers for 2 years maximum (so none other than her an her ministers have them). I think there is a strong likelihood of there being mass civil unrest and violence across the UK in the next few years as the reality of what has been done to all of us eventually erupts as the festering canker it is. Unfortunately I believe that the Tories will attempt to divert attention away from themselves by fermenting trouble in Ireland and the regions as they have successfully done in the past. | |||
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"What a load of condescending bollocks! Where are you on your imaginary voter spectrum? Condescending? Maybe. But please tell me which part of what I have said is bollocks?" All of it! | |||
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"Why is it simply assumed that violence will resume in Ireland as a result of these border issues? That the good people of Ireland will want to forego peaceful existence and return to living in fear? I understand the border/no border issue needs resolution, but why assume that violence will ensue? " because we don't want a fucking border in our country , and if any one thinks it will be built they are nuts , it's not going to happen this problem is of British making , Britain signed the good Friday agreement , now either the live up to what they agreed , or no one else will either , if the Britain puts up infrastructure along the border , It's a legitimate target , | |||
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"One thing that gives me a wry smile are those commentators and politicians who say a hard border in Ireland must be avoided at all costs - and then talk about posting troops along the Scottish border as their counter to the independence. They must think the average voter is stupid. The average voter is not stupid, in fact they are quite intelligent really. The problem is they are like octopus, their memory only lasts a day, they sleep they forget and then need to relearn all they have forgotten. For this they have the red tops, fail, excess and torygraph to reeducate them and remind them that if Labour says it is a good idea its a commie plot but when Tories adopt the policy after doing years of damage then it is a visionary move years ahead of its time.
Your memory (and other Remainers) doesn't seem to be too good Will. Have you and other remainers forgotten already that the EU agreed the UK will leave the customs union as part of the phase 1 Brexit negotiations last December (just 4 short months ago). It was in the phase 1 agreement text that the UK and the EU jointly published and stated that the UK will leave the customs union. The EU then said in January they wanted the phase 1 agreement to be made legally binding. It is now in the process of being made legally binding. We're now legally binded to leave the customs union as stated in the phase 1 agreement text. "You conveniently missed the bit about NI remaining in the customs union as a back stop if no solution can be found - also legally binding! | |||
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"Why is it simply assumed that violence will resume in Ireland as a result of these border issues? That the good people of Ireland will want to forego peaceful existence and return to living in fear? I understand the border/no border issue needs resolution, but why assume that violence will ensue? because we don't want a fucking border in our country , and if any one thinks it will be built they are nuts , it's not going to happen this problem is of British making , Britain signed the good Friday agreement , now either the live up to what they agreed , or no one else will either , if the Britain puts up infrastructure along the border , It's a legitimate target ," Can you please explain what you mean by 'legitimate target'? | |||
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"Why is it simply assumed that violence will resume in Ireland as a result of these border issues? That the good people of Ireland will want to forego peaceful existence and return to living in fear? I understand the border/no border issue needs resolution, but why assume that violence will ensue? because we don't want a fucking border in our country , and if any one thinks it will be built they are nuts , it's not going to happen this problem is of British making , Britain signed the good Friday agreement , now either the live up to what they agreed , or no one else will either , if the Britain puts up infrastructure along the border , It's a legitimate target , Can you please explain what you mean by 'legitimate target'?" Very simple if Britain puts back border posts along the border Every last one of them should be blown off the map , | |||
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"Why is it simply assumed that violence will resume in Ireland as a result of these border issues? That the good people of Ireland will want to forego peaceful existence and return to living in fear? I understand the border/no border issue needs resolution, but why assume that violence will ensue? Because that is what Irish division and the border has bred for 100 years, in fact that is what British subjugation of the Irish has bred since the first Tudor plantations of Ireland in the 1550's. But we now live in the 21st century, not the dark ages. Why the resort to violence? What could it possibly achieve as a positive outcome?" The island of Ireland is populated by people who consider themselves Irish nationals, with a small pocket in the north who want to be British. If you could build a wall around the British and enclose them behind it, perhaps that would work. But it is not a cluster of British like Benidorm - Irish nationals and British nationals, and dual nationals, live in the same towns and streets. Divide people from their kith and kin and people will pull down those barriers, by fair means or foul. Enforce it with uniforms and some people will attack those uniforms as symbols of an oppressive regime. Erect a wall down the middle of the town or city where you live, then insist on people seeking the permission of a "foreign" state to cross it, and you can begin to imagine the resentment. | |||
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"I thought we were the ones meant to be dictating terms to the EU?
LOL. 'The easiest negotiations ever'."I'm afraid to say I'd have left the table a long time ago you can't negotiate with a dictatorship and why the majority of people can't see this is beyond me !! We hold all the cards here the bottom line here is that they desperately need a trade deal with us as we buy more from them in terms of imports than the EU does from us . It's absurd to think that each EU leader will cut off their own supply line to spite the British it's simply not going to happen . Call their bluff and let's really see how brave they are . | |||
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"I thought we were the ones meant to be dictating terms to the EU?
LOL. 'The easiest negotiations ever'.
I'm afraid to say I'd have left the table a long time ago you can't negotiate with a dictatorship and why the majority of people can't see this is beyond me !!
We hold all the cards here the bottom line here is that they desperately need a trade deal with us as we buy more from them in terms of imports than the EU does from us .
It's absurd to think that each EU leader will cut off their own supply line to spite the British it's simply not going to happen .
Call their bluff and let's really see how brave they are .
"8% of the exports of the EU 27 go to the UK. 45% of the exports of the UK go to the EU27. The sums aint hard, so I'm baffled why you think the UK has the upper hand. Who has more to lose from a trade war? You seem to think this argument will be won and lost on economics. It won't. It's politics. Just as the referendum wasn't won and lost on economics. If it had been about economics, there would be no referendum. | |||
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"I thought we were the ones meant to be dictating terms to the EU?
LOL. 'The easiest negotiations ever'.
I'm afraid to say I'd have left the table a long time ago you can't negotiate with a dictatorship and why the majority of people can't see this is beyond me !!
We hold all the cards here the bottom line here is that they desperately need a trade deal with us as we buy more from them in terms of imports than the EU does from us .
It's absurd to think that each EU leader will cut off their own supply line to spite the British it's simply not going to happen .
Call their bluff and let's really see how brave they are .
"You have fallen for the bait which leave have always promoted " we buy more off them" - it's true but a load of rubbish, because if we had the upper hand we'd have walked a long time ago! To the UK it's top priority is trade to the 27 trade is maybe 3rd or 4th on the list! Ok let's take Germany for example - the biggest exporter to the UK country wise in the EU. Their exposure is less than 10%. Yes we buy a lot of German cars - why? I don't think we will get a deal, and we revert to WTO terms - we will still buy their cars - not as many but more expensive - or will we go to a nation of home grown vehicles? So Germany may not sell as many cars but 10% is it's maximum loss - more likely be 5%? | |||
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"One thing that gives me a wry smile are those commentators and politicians who say a hard border in Ireland must be avoided at all costs - and then talk about posting troops along the Scottish border as their counter to the independence. They must think the average voter is stupid. The average voter is not stupid, in fact they are quite intelligent really. The problem is they are like octopus, their memory only lasts a day, they sleep they forget and then need to relearn all they have forgotten. For this they have the red tops, fail, excess and torygraph to reeducate them and remind them that if Labour says it is a good idea its a commie plot but when Tories adopt the policy after doing years of damage then it is a visionary move years ahead of its time.
Your memory (and other Remainers) doesn't seem to be too good Will. Have you and other remainers forgotten already that the EU agreed the UK will leave the customs union as part of the phase 1 Brexit negotiations last December (just 4 short months ago). It was in the phase 1 agreement text that the UK and the EU jointly published and stated that the UK will leave the customs union. The EU then said in January they wanted the phase 1 agreement to be made legally binding. It is now in the process of being made legally binding. We're now legally binded to leave the customs union as stated in the phase 1 agreement text. "There are many options that are open for the Brexit negotiations and the one that was rushed, to prevent the December talks being held up, was the Irish.NI, UK border. The EU are stating that this is amongst the issues that the UK has not yet provided an appropriate proposal for. Not being an EU member state still leaves the UK open to have a range of relationship styles with the EU, including customs options. | |||
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"Why is it simply assumed that violence will resume in Ireland as a result of these border issues? That the good people of Ireland will want to forego peaceful existence and return to living in fear? I understand the border/no border issue needs resolution, but why assume that violence will ensue? because we don't want a fucking border in our country , and if any one thinks it will be built they are nuts , it's not going to happen this problem is of British making , Britain signed the good Friday agreement , now either the live up to what they agreed , or no one else will either , if the Britain puts up infrastructure along the border , It's a legitimate target , Can you please explain what you mean by 'legitimate target'? Very simple if Britain puts back border posts along the border Every last one of them should be blown off the map , " Even if they are manned? | |||
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"Why is it simply assumed that violence will resume in Ireland as a result of these border issues? That the good people of Ireland will want to forego peaceful existence and return to living in fear? I understand the border/no border issue needs resolution, but why assume that violence will ensue? because we don't want a fucking border in our country , and if any one thinks it will be built they are nuts , it's not going to happen this problem is of British making , Britain signed the good Friday agreement , now either the live up to what they agreed , or no one else will either , if the Britain puts up infrastructure along the border , It's a legitimate target , Can you please explain what you mean by 'legitimate target'? Very simple if Britain puts back border posts along the border Every last one of them should be blown off the map , Even if they are manned?" As far as I remember in situations like that warning was given | |||
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"Why is it simply assumed that violence will resume in Ireland as a result of these border issues? That the good people of Ireland will want to forego peaceful existence and return to living in fear? I understand the border/no border issue needs resolution, but why assume that violence will ensue? because we don't want a fucking border in our country , and if any one thinks it will be built they are nuts , it's not going to happen this problem is of British making , Britain signed the good Friday agreement , now either the live up to what they agreed , or no one else will either , if the Britain puts up infrastructure along the border , It's a legitimate target , Can you please explain what you mean by 'legitimate target'? Very simple if Britain puts back border posts along the border Every last one of them should be blown off the map , Even if they are manned? As far as I remember in situations like that warning was given " And if warnings are given and people are killed it makes it legitimate? | |||
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"Why is it simply assumed that violence will resume in Ireland as a result of these border issues? That the good people of Ireland will want to forego peaceful existence and return to living in fear? I understand the border/no border issue needs resolution, but why assume that violence will ensue? because we don't want a fucking border in our country , and if any one thinks it will be built they are nuts , it's not going to happen this problem is of British making , Britain signed the good Friday agreement , now either the live up to what they agreed , or no one else will either , if the Britain puts up infrastructure along the border , It's a legitimate target , Can you please explain what you mean by 'legitimate target'? Very simple if Britain puts back border posts along the border Every last one of them should be blown off the map , Even if they are manned? As far as I remember in situations like that warning was given And if warnings are given and people are killed it makes it legitimate?" Would you be staying in a check point if you were told it was going to come down around you in the next 10 minutes ?? Anyway they won't even get to the point of being manned , they will be down before they get to that point | |||
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" Even if they are manned?" FFS! I served in NI (as did many others here) and more live in NI and the rest of Ireland, but somehow even when an Irish wo/man tells you that a return of a hard border will herald a return of a violent insurgency and low level civil war (because that is what 'the troubles' were) your (and the Tory British government) reaction seems to be one of an incredulous, 'that will be your doing' and 'you should be grown up about this'. Trust me when I say that thanks to Tory gutting of our armed forces should the NI problem not be resolved in a way that protects the Good Friday Agreement in every detail the troubles will return and we will not be able to keep a lid on the situation. I will go further and predict that if that happens the republican bombing campaigns of the 70's 80's and 90's will be nothing to what will be unleashed on the mainland next time round. And all this because 1 Tory, Eaton posh boy would do anything to stay in power and 2 more were fighting over who would replace him when they forced him out. | |||
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" Even if they are manned? FFS! I served in NI (as did many others here) and more live in NI and the rest of Ireland, but somehow even when an Irish wo/man tells you that a return of a hard border will herald a return of a violent insurgency and low level civil war (because that is what 'the troubles' were) your (and the Tory British government) reaction seems to be one of an incredulous, 'that will be your doing' and 'you should be grown up about this'. Trust me when I say that thanks to Tory gutting of our armed forces should the NI problem not be resolved in a way that protects the Good Friday Agreement in every detail the troubles will return and we will not be able to keep a lid on the situation. I will go further and predict that if that happens the republican bombing campaigns of the 70's 80's and 90's will be nothing to what will be unleashed on the mainland next time round. And all this because 1 Tory, Eaton posh boy would do anything to stay in power and 2 more were fighting over who would replace him when they forced him out." Your spot on from what I see here , the last time around most of what British soldiers had to deal with lead back to a handful of hard line families , this time the British government will piss of bigger numbers of what was republican supporters , only this time around they will be involved Plus there is a generation of lads in there 20's that wouldn't remember how bad it was , and they see Britain putting up borders in ireland , and God help us last time around will look like a walk in the park , | |||
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"So some tory party vermin would decide that a no-deal, whilst erecting NI borders, would be a great conclusion to brexit? They're probably trying - not very well - to keep some of the swivel eyed, frothing tory cabinet and MPs somewhat constrained and quieter, until the Maybot concludes a deal that's not 100% ultra-rightwing and involes a customs union arrangement." To avoid a border you need customs union and regulatory alignment , That or a border in the sea | |||
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"Vradker said last yesterday that the eu could pull the plug if there ant a coherent proposal from Britain in the next 10 weeks " Threats threats threats bring it on !! | |||
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"Vradker said last yesterday that the eu could pull the plug if there ant a coherent proposal from Britain in the next 10 weeks Threats threats threats bring it on !! " You sad individual , do you realize what you are asking for ? | |||
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"Vradker said last yesterday that the eu could pull the plug if there ant a coherent proposal from Britain in the next 10 weeks Threats threats threats bring it on !! You sad individual , do you realize what you are asking for ?" I wonder if we will have the same rules of engagement? 3 warnings before YOU can fire - your dead! Those who have never experienced it can't comprehend - someone else will sort it  | |||
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"You sad individual , do you realize what you are asking for ? I wonder if we will have the same rules of engagement? 3 warnings before YOU can fire - your dead! Those who have never experienced it can't comprehend - someone else will sort it "Body cams, helmet cams and I expect weapon cams (like dash cams but linked to safety catch, trigger) will make things very different. | |||
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"Vradker said last yesterday that the eu could pull the plug if there ant a coherent proposal from Britain in the next 10 weeks Threats threats threats bring it on !! You sad individual , do you realize what you are asking for ?" What I am saying is that WE as a United Kingdom will not be bullied by a dictatorship of 27 other nations who feel they can push us around . They don't like the fact that we have chosen another route and are constantly saying that we are free to change our minds if we choose to do so and we'd be welcome back with open arms . Maybe the fact that their coffers will be short of £56 million per day of OUR nations money is of significance to them. Our own NHS needs it more ! | |||
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"Vradker said last yesterday that the eu could pull the plug if there ant a coherent proposal from Britain in the next 10 weeks Threats threats threats bring it on !! You sad individual , do you realize what you are asking for ? What I am saying is that WE as a United Kingdom will not be bullied by a dictatorship of 27 other nations who feel they can push us around . They don't like the fact that we have chosen another route and are constantly saying that we are free to change our minds if we choose to do so and we'd be welcome back with open arms . Maybe the fact that their coffers will be short of £56 million per day of OUR nations money is of significance to them. Our own NHS needs it more ! " But leaving the EU at a cost of braking the good Friday agreement an agreement that has maintained peace in the UK since it was signed , Going back on that agreement will be going back to violence , | |||
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"Agreed ! Again it's classic EU stubbornness. " Ok let's say it is eu stubbornness Does that justify westminster braking agreements that keep peace in the UK , | |||
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"Vradker said last yesterday that the eu could pull the plug if there ant a coherent proposal from Britain in the next 10 weeks Threats threats threats bring it on !! You sad individual , do you realize what you are asking for ? What I am saying is that WE as a United Kingdom will not be bullied by a dictatorship of 27 other nations who feel they can push us around . They don't like the fact that we have chosen another route and are constantly saying that we are free to change our minds if we choose to do so and we'd be welcome back with open arms . Maybe the fact that their coffers will be short of £56 million per day of OUR nations money is of significance to them. Our own NHS needs it more ! " It won't be just 27 - a lot more will push is around US, India, China and on and on. If you think the NHS is going to get some dividend well that's all gone on having to set up our own agencies to replace EU ones! Do you know how much we have spent on brexit so far? Dexit dept and trade dept alone runs into billions. Trade negotiators don't come cheap! | |||
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"Agreed ! Again it's classic EU stubbornness. " Yeah, the bloody EU fighting for their members best interests! | |||
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"Agreed ! Again it's classic EU stubbornness. Ok let's say it is eu stubbornness Does that justify westminster braking agreements that keep peace in the UK , " No it doesn't what I'm saying is its typical EU Tactics. The way they act it's like they own the fookin world . I despise the bstds | |||
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"Agreed ! Again it's classic EU stubbornness. Ok let's say it is eu stubbornness Does that justify westminster braking agreements that keep peace in the UK , No it doesn't what I'm saying is its typical EU Tactics. The way they act it's like they own the fookin world . I despise the bstds " They are open and transparent, they have been from the start. They have laid out their positions and stuck to them since before the referendum. It's the Tories who have lied and told the British public we can have our cake and eat it. Look at their lies about reducing immigration down to the tens of thousands since the 2010 manifesto and the consequences such a blatant lie has had on innocent people from the windrush generation. | |||
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"Agreed ! Again it's classic EU stubbornness. Ok let's say it is eu stubbornness Does that justify westminster braking agreements that keep peace in the UK , No it doesn't what I'm saying is its typical EU Tactics. The way they act it's like they own the fookin world . I despise the bstds " Hold up , they way they act is like they own they world
Australia
India
Most of Africa
America
Caribbean
Ireland
Where am I leaving out that has had a union Jack flying at some point in time
Who thinks they own the would ???? | |||
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"Agreed ! Again it's classic EU stubbornness. Ok let's say it is eu stubbornness Does that justify westminster braking agreements that keep peace in the UK , No it doesn't what I'm saying is its typical EU Tactics. The way they act it's like they own the fookin world . I despise the bstds " Simply if a guy picks a fight with 27 others who's going to win? Simples! | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster." Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum." I don't understand your point. The EU, like any market, has a duty to protect the integrity of its market. If it shares a border with a non-EU state whose standards are different from those of the EU, e.g. chlorinated chicken imported from the US, then it needs controls to maintain those standards. That's not punishment. The UK has agreed that, in the absence of any alternative arrangement, Northern Ireland will remain in the customs union. Thereby securing a key requirement of one of its members, Ireland, that there will be no hard border in Ireland. The problem has been created by the UK and everyone is agreed it is up to the UK to bring forward an alternative. Given that May has pledged no difference in regulations across the UK, the only realistic solution is for the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union. But she is a hostage of her own extremists and could easily topple over this. | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum." It's a British decision to leave therefore a British problem! Not about imposing war - we all new what we were voting for, surely the leave leadership saw this problem? Strange I can't remember a debate in the campaign about it - or was it under "project fear"? It just goes to show "there are 2 sides to every story and somewhere in the middle is the truth"! | |||
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"Agreed ! Again it's classic EU stubbornness. Ok let's say it is eu stubbornness Does that justify westminster braking agreements that keep peace in the UK , No it doesn't what I'm saying is its typical EU Tactics. The way they act it's like they own the fookin world . I despise the bstds Simply if a guy picks a fight with 27 others who's going to win? Simples!" No body picked a fight, we just said we wanted to leave the club! | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. I don't understand your point. The EU, like any market, has a duty to protect the integrity of its market. If it shares a border with a non-EU state whose standards are different from those of the EU, e.g. chlorinated chicken imported from the US, then it needs controls to maintain those standards. That's not punishment. The UK has agreed that, in the absence of any alternative arrangement, Northern Ireland will remain in the customs union. Thereby securing a key requirement of one of its members, Ireland, that there will be no hard border in Ireland. The problem has been created by the UK and everyone is agreed it is up to the UK to bring forward an alternative. Given that May has pledged no difference in regulations across the UK, the only realistic solution is for the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union. But she is a hostage of her own extremists and could easily topple over this." Silly me...and there I was, certain that the main reason for the EU's existence was to ensure there was peace in Europe. | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. It's a British decision to leave therefore a British problem! Not about imposing war - we all new what we were voting for, surely the leave leadership saw this problem? Strange I can't remember a debate in the campaign about it - or was it under "project fear"? It just goes to show "there are 2 sides to every story and somewhere in the middle is the truth"!" And the British have proposed solutions, but the EU are not willing to discuss the issue other than, "you have to stay in the customs union", which means we will not be able to negotiate our own trade agreements. | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. I don't understand your point. The EU, like any market, has a duty to protect the integrity of its market. If it shares a border with a non-EU state whose standards are different from those of the EU, e.g. chlorinated chicken imported from the US, then it needs controls to maintain those standards. That's not punishment. The UK has agreed that, in the absence of any alternative arrangement, Northern Ireland will remain in the customs union. Thereby securing a key requirement of one of its members, Ireland, that there will be no hard border in Ireland. The problem has been created by the UK and everyone is agreed it is up to the UK to bring forward an alternative. Given that May has pledged no difference in regulations across the UK, the only realistic solution is for the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union. But she is a hostage of her own extremists and could easily topple over this. Silly me...and there I was, certain that the main reason for the EU's existence was to ensure there was peace in Europe." Where in your mind does this idea of EU going to war come from? The UK is leaving. The EU has a duty to look after the interests of the rest. Perhaps you realise how big a pig in a poke the Leave argument was/is, and need to blame someone else for your own actions? | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. I don't understand your point. The EU, like any market, has a duty to protect the integrity of its market. If it shares a border with a non-EU state whose standards are different from those of the EU, e.g. chlorinated chicken imported from the US, then it needs controls to maintain those standards. That's not punishment. The UK has agreed that, in the absence of any alternative arrangement, Northern Ireland will remain in the customs union. Thereby securing a key requirement of one of its members, Ireland, that there will be no hard border in Ireland. The problem has been created by the UK and everyone is agreed it is up to the UK to bring forward an alternative. Given that May has pledged no difference in regulations across the UK, the only realistic solution is for the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union. But she is a hostage of her own extremists and could easily topple over this. Silly me...and there I was, certain that the main reason for the EU's existence was to ensure there was peace in Europe." Peace between member states, you voted to leave that, remember? | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. I don't understand your point. The EU, like any market, has a duty to protect the integrity of its market. If it shares a border with a non-EU state whose standards are different from those of the EU, e.g. chlorinated chicken imported from the US, then it needs controls to maintain those standards. That's not punishment. The UK has agreed that, in the absence of any alternative arrangement, Northern Ireland will remain in the customs union. Thereby securing a key requirement of one of its members, Ireland, that there will be no hard border in Ireland. The problem has been created by the UK and everyone is agreed it is up to the UK to bring forward an alternative. Given that May has pledged no difference in regulations across the UK, the only realistic solution is for the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union. But she is a hostage of her own extremists and could easily topple over this. Silly me...and there I was, certain that the main reason for the EU's existence was to ensure there was peace in Europe. Peace between member states, you voted to leave that, remember? " So you actively encourage the EU promoting wars in other areas as long as it's not in the EU? | |||
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"i think that little england brexiteers will sacrifice northern ireland staying in the customs union for their lovely dream regardless of what the DUP say..... which is why you have seem leavers rubbishing the importance of the GFA...." DUP hold balance of power they won't let that happen , may will cave in and stay in customs union That way it will only be the loss of 2 maybe 3 of her hardliners , and she will cling on to power with the backing of DUP | |||
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"i think that little england brexiteers will sacrifice northern ireland staying in the customs union for their lovely dream regardless of what the DUP say..... which is why you have seem leavers rubbishing the importance of the GFA.... DUP hold balance of power they won't let that happen , may will cave in and stay in customs union That way it will only be the loss of 2 maybe 3 of her hardliners , and she will cling on to power with the backing of DUP " *Waits for centaur to chime in "but but but it's legal already, the phase 1 agreement to leave!"* I can see her caving in, but I can't see her surviving it. She'll be the next traitor on the Mail's front page, Farage will be apoplexic, JRM is already talking about warming their heels to Putney bridge Hurrah! She'll be gone, particularly after Windrush. | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. It's a British decision to leave therefore a British problem! Not about imposing war - we all new what we were voting for, surely the leave leadership saw this problem? Strange I can't remember a debate in the campaign about it - or was it under "project fear"? It just goes to show "there are 2 sides to every story and somewhere in the middle is the truth"! And the British have proposed solutions, but the EU are not willing to discuss the issue other than, "you have to stay in the customs union", which means we will not be able to negotiate our own trade agreements." Factually not 100% true! Yes the UK have put forward 2 options, both of which have been discussed and both have been rejected as unworkable. I understand that the EU have also provided information as to why they are unworkable? | |||
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"Only two options can sort the border issue the uk as a whole remain in the customs union , Or northern Ireland in customs union with customs posts at the ports , DUP will stop the second option , House of lords back option one And so will Tuesdays vote in the commons , " And if that happens they'll be riots on the streets !! Leave means leave !!! | |||
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"Only two options can sort the border issue the uk as a whole remain in the customs union , Or northern Ireland in customs union with customs posts at the ports , DUP will stop the second option , House of lords back option one And so will Tuesdays vote in the commons , And if that happens they'll be riots on the streets !! Leave means leave !!! " Don't worry British army is pretty good with rubber bullets and riot control | |||
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" And if that happens they'll be riots on the streets !! Leave means leave !!! " so now you are advocating violence if you don't get everything you want.... charming!!!! 
people may have voted to leave, but not everyone voted for the same type of leave.....
from your posts i assume you are the "blow it all to bits" leaver.....
I think you are the most dangerous type.....
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. I don't understand your point. The EU, like any market, has a duty to protect the integrity of its market. If it shares a border with a non-EU state whose standards are different from those of the EU, e.g. chlorinated chicken imported from the US, then it needs controls to maintain those standards. That's not punishment. The UK has agreed that, in the absence of any alternative arrangement, Northern Ireland will remain in the customs union. Thereby securing a key requirement of one of its members, Ireland, that there will be no hard border in Ireland. The problem has been created by the UK and everyone is agreed it is up to the UK to bring forward an alternative. Given that May has pledged no difference in regulations across the UK, the only realistic solution is for the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union. But she is a hostage of her own extremists and could easily topple over this. Silly me...and there I was, certain that the main reason for the EU's existence was to ensure there was peace in Europe. Peace between member states, you voted to leave that, remember? So you actively encourage the EU promoting wars in other areas as long as it's not in the EU?" No, no one has suggested any such thing. You voted for Brexit. What's your solution? | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. I don't understand your point. The EU, like any market, has a duty to protect the integrity of its market. If it shares a border with a non-EU state whose standards are different from those of the EU, e.g. chlorinated chicken imported from the US, then it needs controls to maintain those standards. That's not punishment. The UK has agreed that, in the absence of any alternative arrangement, Northern Ireland will remain in the customs union. Thereby securing a key requirement of one of its members, Ireland, that there will be no hard border in Ireland. The problem has been created by the UK and everyone is agreed it is up to the UK to bring forward an alternative. Given that May has pledged no difference in regulations across the UK, the only realistic solution is for the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union. But she is a hostage of her own extremists and could easily topple over this. Silly me...and there I was, certain that the main reason for the EU's existence was to ensure there was peace in Europe. Peace between member states, you voted to leave that, remember? So you actively encourage the EU promoting wars in other areas as long as it's not in the EU? No, no one has suggested any such thing. You voted for Brexit. What's your solution? " If the EU refuse to compromise over the Irish border issue then we should walk away from the table and leave with no deal (this also means the EU can kiss goodbye to that divorce bill). We will Trade on WTO rules. As for the border posts, the UK won't be erecting any, and won't manned with UK staff, it's the EU who want to put up border posts to protect their customs union, if the EU wants a border then they can man it with EU staff. | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. I don't understand your point. The EU, like any market, has a duty to protect the integrity of its market. If it shares a border with a non-EU state whose standards are different from those of the EU, e.g. chlorinated chicken imported from the US, then it needs controls to maintain those standards. That's not punishment. The UK has agreed that, in the absence of any alternative arrangement, Northern Ireland will remain in the customs union. Thereby securing a key requirement of one of its members, Ireland, that there will be no hard border in Ireland. The problem has been created by the UK and everyone is agreed it is up to the UK to bring forward an alternative. Given that May has pledged no difference in regulations across the UK, the only realistic solution is for the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union. But she is a hostage of her own extremists and could easily topple over this. Silly me...and there I was, certain that the main reason for the EU's existence was to ensure there was peace in Europe. Peace between member states, you voted to leave that, remember? So you actively encourage the EU promoting wars in other areas as long as it's not in the EU? No, no one has suggested any such thing. You voted for Brexit. What's your solution? If the EU refuse to compromise over the Irish border issue then we should walk away from the table and leave with no deal (this also means the EU can kiss goodbye to that divorce bill). We will Trade on WTO rules. As for the border posts, the UK won't be erecting any, and won't manned with UK staff, it's the EU who want to put up border posts to protect their customs union, if the EU wants a border then they can man it with EU staff. " The issue of the border was brought about by England it's up to England to solve the problem , | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. I don't understand your point. The EU, like any market, has a duty to protect the integrity of its market. If it shares a border with a non-EU state whose standards are different from those of the EU, e.g. chlorinated chicken imported from the US, then it needs controls to maintain those standards. That's not punishment. The UK has agreed that, in the absence of any alternative arrangement, Northern Ireland will remain in the customs union. Thereby securing a key requirement of one of its members, Ireland, that there will be no hard border in Ireland. The problem has been created by the UK and everyone is agreed it is up to the UK to bring forward an alternative. Given that May has pledged no difference in regulations across the UK, the only realistic solution is for the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union. But she is a hostage of her own extremists and could easily topple over this. Silly me...and there I was, certain that the main reason for the EU's existence was to ensure there was peace in Europe. Peace between member states, you voted to leave that, remember? So you actively encourage the EU promoting wars in other areas as long as it's not in the EU? No, no one has suggested any such thing. You voted for Brexit. What's your solution? If the EU refuse to compromise over the Irish border issue then we should walk away from the table and leave with no deal (this also means the EU can kiss goodbye to that divorce bill). We will Trade on WTO rules. As for the border posts, the UK won't be erecting any, and won't manned with UK staff, it's the EU who want to put up border posts to protect their customs union, if the EU wants a border then they can man it with EU staff. The issue of the border was brought about by England it's up to England to solve the problem , " We've said time and again we don't want a border and won't be putting any hard border infrastructure there. If you (the EU) want one you can build the infrastructure there with EU money and man it with EU staff. | |||
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"I find it very hard to believe the Brexiteers will be happy to have an open border that anyone can cross from the EU into the UK." They were talking about a frictionless border , that's a border without checks , no checkpoints , that's an open border that anyone can cross | |||
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"Either way there is no point arguing it will be sorted soon may will concede to staying in the customs union" Then she will either be faced with a leadership challenge or she will be punished at the ballot box by the electorate who voted Leave. I can see a resurgence of ukip to take us out of the customs union if the tories keep us in. | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. I don't understand your point. The EU, like any market, has a duty to protect the integrity of its market. If it shares a border with a non-EU state whose standards are different from those of the EU, e.g. chlorinated chicken imported from the US, then it needs controls to maintain those standards. That's not punishment. The UK has agreed that, in the absence of any alternative arrangement, Northern Ireland will remain in the customs union. Thereby securing a key requirement of one of its members, Ireland, that there will be no hard border in Ireland. The problem has been created by the UK and everyone is agreed it is up to the UK to bring forward an alternative. Given that May has pledged no difference in regulations across the UK, the only realistic solution is for the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union. But she is a hostage of her own extremists and could easily topple over this. Silly me...and there I was, certain that the main reason for the EU's existence was to ensure there was peace in Europe. Peace between member states, you voted to leave that, remember? So you actively encourage the EU promoting wars in other areas as long as it's not in the EU? No, no one has suggested any such thing. You voted for Brexit. What's your solution? If the EU refuse to compromise over the Irish border issue then we should walk away from the table and leave with no deal (this also means the EU can kiss goodbye to that divorce bill). We will Trade on WTO rules. As for the border posts, the UK won't be erecting any, and won't manned with UK staff, it's the EU who want to put up border posts to protect their customs union, if the EU wants a border then they can man it with EU staff. The issue of the border was brought about by England it's up to England to solve the problem , We've said time and again we don't want a border and won't be putting any hard border infrastructure there. If you (the EU) want one you can build the infrastructure there with EU money and man it with EU staff. " And what will stop goods bought in southern Ireland tariff free crossing into northern Ireland and on into the uk , when the uk are under wto rules and tariffs apply in the UK , UK business will loose out | |||
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"I find it very hard to believe the Brexiteers will be happy to have an open border that anyone can cross from the EU into the UK." You know it is a special case because of the good Friday agreement. The border in Gibraltar is not a special case so I fully expect a hard border in Gibraltar. | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. I don't understand your point. The EU, like any market, has a duty to protect the integrity of its market. If it shares a border with a non-EU state whose standards are different from those of the EU, e.g. chlorinated chicken imported from the US, then it needs controls to maintain those standards. That's not punishment. The UK has agreed that, in the absence of any alternative arrangement, Northern Ireland will remain in the customs union. Thereby securing a key requirement of one of its members, Ireland, that there will be no hard border in Ireland. The problem has been created by the UK and everyone is agreed it is up to the UK to bring forward an alternative. Given that May has pledged no difference in regulations across the UK, the only realistic solution is for the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union. But she is a hostage of her own extremists and could easily topple over this. Silly me...and there I was, certain that the main reason for the EU's existence was to ensure there was peace in Europe. Peace between member states, you voted to leave that, remember? So you actively encourage the EU promoting wars in other areas as long as it's not in the EU? No, no one has suggested any such thing. You voted for Brexit. What's your solution? If the EU refuse to compromise over the Irish border issue then we should walk away from the table and leave with no deal (this also means the EU can kiss goodbye to that divorce bill). We will Trade on WTO rules. As for the border posts, the UK won't be erecting any, and won't manned with UK staff, it's the EU who want to put up border posts to protect their customs union, if the EU wants a border then they can man it with EU staff. The issue of the border was brought about by England it's up to England to solve the problem , We've said time and again we don't want a border and won't be putting any hard border infrastructure there. If you (the EU) want one you can build the infrastructure there with EU money and man it with EU staff. And what will stop goods bought in southern Ireland tariff free crossing into northern Ireland and on into the uk , when the uk are under wto rules and tariffs apply in the UK , UK business will loose out " Tariffs are a 2 way street so you'll be charged tariffs too. The drop in the value of the pound has already cancelled out most of the tariff increase on our side anyway. | |||
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"I find it very hard to believe the Brexiteers will be happy to have an open border that anyone can cross from the EU into the UK. You know it is a special case because of the good Friday agreement. The border in Gibraltar is not a special case so I fully expect a hard border in Gibraltar. " so that means Migrants can come in through the south cross the border into UK here and on to England then | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. I don't understand your point. The EU, like any market, has a duty to protect the integrity of its market. If it shares a border with a non-EU state whose standards are different from those of the EU, e.g. chlorinated chicken imported from the US, then it needs controls to maintain those standards. That's not punishment. The UK has agreed that, in the absence of any alternative arrangement, Northern Ireland will remain in the customs union. Thereby securing a key requirement of one of its members, Ireland, that there will be no hard border in Ireland. The problem has been created by the UK and everyone is agreed it is up to the UK to bring forward an alternative. Given that May has pledged no difference in regulations across the UK, the only realistic solution is for the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union. But she is a hostage of her own extremists and could easily topple over this. Silly me...and there I was, certain that the main reason for the EU's existence was to ensure there was peace in Europe. Peace between member states, you voted to leave that, remember? So you actively encourage the EU promoting wars in other areas as long as it's not in the EU? No, no one has suggested any such thing. You voted for Brexit. What's your solution? If the EU refuse to compromise over the Irish border issue then we should walk away from the table and leave with no deal (this also means the EU can kiss goodbye to that divorce bill). We will Trade on WTO rules. As for the border posts, the UK won't be erecting any, and won't manned with UK staff, it's the EU who want to put up border posts to protect their customs union, if the EU wants a border then they can man it with EU staff. The issue of the border was brought about by England it's up to England to solve the problem , We've said time and again we don't want a border and won't be putting any hard border infrastructure there. If you (the EU) want one you can build the infrastructure there with EU money and man it with EU staff. And what will stop goods bought in southern Ireland tariff free crossing into northern Ireland and on into the uk , when the uk are under wto rules and tariffs apply in the UK , UK business will loose out Tariffs are a 2 way street so you'll be charged tariffs too. The drop in the value of the pound has already cancelled out most of the tariff increase on our side anyway. " where will tariffs be collected if I cross from the south to the north if UK wants an open border there no way to know what crossed over | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. I don't understand your point. The EU, like any market, has a duty to protect the integrity of its market. If it shares a border with a non-EU state whose standards are different from those of the EU, e.g. chlorinated chicken imported from the US, then it needs controls to maintain those standards. That's not punishment. The UK has agreed that, in the absence of any alternative arrangement, Northern Ireland will remain in the customs union. Thereby securing a key requirement of one of its members, Ireland, that there will be no hard border in Ireland. The problem has been created by the UK and everyone is agreed it is up to the UK to bring forward an alternative. Given that May has pledged no difference in regulations across the UK, the only realistic solution is for the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union. But she is a hostage of her own extremists and could easily topple over this. Silly me...and there I was, certain that the main reason for the EU's existence was to ensure there was peace in Europe. Peace between member states, you voted to leave that, remember? So you actively encourage the EU promoting wars in other areas as long as it's not in the EU? No, no one has suggested any such thing. You voted for Brexit. What's your solution? If the EU refuse to compromise over the Irish border issue then we should walk away from the table and leave with no deal (this also means the EU can kiss goodbye to that divorce bill). We will Trade on WTO rules. As for the border posts, the UK won't be erecting any, and won't manned with UK staff, it's the EU who want to put up border posts to protect their customs union, if the EU wants a border then they can man it with EU staff. The issue of the border was brought about by England it's up to England to solve the problem , We've said time and again we don't want a border and won't be putting any hard border infrastructure there. If you (the EU) want one you can build the infrastructure there with EU money and man it with EU staff. And what will stop goods bought in southern Ireland tariff free crossing into northern Ireland and on into the uk , when the uk are under wto rules and tariffs apply in the UK , UK business will loose out Tariffs are a 2 way street so you'll be charged tariffs too. The drop in the value of the pound has already cancelled out most of the tariff increase on our side anyway. where will tariffs be collected if I cross from the south to the north if UK wants an open border there no way to know what crossed over " You already have a border there now. You have different rates of currency on either side, different tax rules on either side, different NHS/health care rules on each side, etc, and the list goes on and on and on. The UK already put forward proposals for the use of the latest technology to have an invisible border, number plate recognition tech, etc, so taxes and tariffs can be collected electronically, but the EU has just dismissed it out of hand. To be honest I think whatever the UK suggests the EU will reject it. The EU don't want a deal so we'll end up leaving with no deal over this. | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. I don't understand your point. The EU, like any market, has a duty to protect the integrity of its market. If it shares a border with a non-EU state whose standards are different from those of the EU, e.g. chlorinated chicken imported from the US, then it needs controls to maintain those standards. That's not punishment. The UK has agreed that, in the absence of any alternative arrangement, Northern Ireland will remain in the customs union. Thereby securing a key requirement of one of its members, Ireland, that there will be no hard border in Ireland. The problem has been created by the UK and everyone is agreed it is up to the UK to bring forward an alternative. Given that May has pledged no difference in regulations across the UK, the only realistic solution is for the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union. But she is a hostage of her own extremists and could easily topple over this. Silly me...and there I was, certain that the main reason for the EU's existence was to ensure there was peace in Europe. Peace between member states, you voted to leave that, remember? So you actively encourage the EU promoting wars in other areas as long as it's not in the EU? No, no one has suggested any such thing. You voted for Brexit. What's your solution? If the EU refuse to compromise over the Irish border issue then we should walk away from the table and leave with no deal (this also means the EU can kiss goodbye to that divorce bill). We will Trade on WTO rules. As for the border posts, the UK won't be erecting any, and won't manned with UK staff, it's the EU who want to put up border posts to protect their customs union, if the EU wants a border then they can man it with EU staff. The issue of the border was brought about by England it's up to England to solve the problem , We've said time and again we don't want a border and won't be putting any hard border infrastructure there. If you (the EU) want one you can build the infrastructure there with EU money and man it with EU staff. And what will stop goods bought in southern Ireland tariff free crossing into northern Ireland and on into the uk , when the uk are under wto rules and tariffs apply in the UK , UK business will loose out Tariffs are a 2 way street so you'll be charged tariffs too. The drop in the value of the pound has already cancelled out most of the tariff increase on our side anyway. where will tariffs be collected if I cross from the south to the north if UK wants an open border there no way to know what crossed over You already have a border there now. You have different rates of currency on either side, different tax rules on either side, different NHS/health care rules on each side, etc, and the list goes on and on and on. The UK already put forward proposals for the use of the latest technology to have an invisible border, number plate recognition tech, etc, so taxes and tariffs can be collected electronically, but the EU has just dismissed it out of hand. To be honest I think whatever the UK suggests the EU will reject it. The EU don't want a deal so we'll end up leaving with no deal over this. " How dose licence plate tell you what's inside a van or truck ?? | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. I don't understand your point. The EU, like any market, has a duty to protect the integrity of its market. If it shares a border with a non-EU state whose standards are different from those of the EU, e.g. chlorinated chicken imported from the US, then it needs controls to maintain those standards. That's not punishment. The UK has agreed that, in the absence of any alternative arrangement, Northern Ireland will remain in the customs union. Thereby securing a key requirement of one of its members, Ireland, that there will be no hard border in Ireland. The problem has been created by the UK and everyone is agreed it is up to the UK to bring forward an alternative. Given that May has pledged no difference in regulations across the UK, the only realistic solution is for the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union. But she is a hostage of her own extremists and could easily topple over this. Silly me...and there I was, certain that the main reason for the EU's existence was to ensure there was peace in Europe. Peace between member states, you voted to leave that, remember? So you actively encourage the EU promoting wars in other areas as long as it's not in the EU? No, no one has suggested any such thing. You voted for Brexit. What's your solution? If the EU refuse to compromise over the Irish border issue then we should walk away from the table and leave with no deal (this also means the EU can kiss goodbye to that divorce bill). We will Trade on WTO rules. As for the border posts, the UK won't be erecting any, and won't manned with UK staff, it's the EU who want to put up border posts to protect their customs union, if the EU wants a border then they can man it with EU staff. " That still doesn't solve the problem. So you would let anyone and anything sail straight through the border? How are you going to collect the tariff revenue on products coming into the UK? What do you think would happen to the ports in NI and their competitors in Eire? Would you be happy for no checks at Heathrow, or is that somehow different to the NI/Eire border? | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. I don't understand your point. The EU, like any market, has a duty to protect the integrity of its market. If it shares a border with a non-EU state whose standards are different from those of the EU, e.g. chlorinated chicken imported from the US, then it needs controls to maintain those standards. That's not punishment. The UK has agreed that, in the absence of any alternative arrangement, Northern Ireland will remain in the customs union. Thereby securing a key requirement of one of its members, Ireland, that there will be no hard border in Ireland. The problem has been created by the UK and everyone is agreed it is up to the UK to bring forward an alternative. Given that May has pledged no difference in regulations across the UK, the only realistic solution is for the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union. But she is a hostage of her own extremists and could easily topple over this. Silly me...and there I was, certain that the main reason for the EU's existence was to ensure there was peace in Europe. Peace between member states, you voted to leave that, remember? So you actively encourage the EU promoting wars in other areas as long as it's not in the EU? No, no one has suggested any such thing. You voted for Brexit. What's your solution? If the EU refuse to compromise over the Irish border issue then we should walk away from the table and leave with no deal (this also means the EU can kiss goodbye to that divorce bill). We will Trade on WTO rules. As for the border posts, the UK won't be erecting any, and won't manned with UK staff, it's the EU who want to put up border posts to protect their customs union, if the EU wants a border then they can man it with EU staff. That still doesn't solve the problem. So you would let anyone and anything sail straight through the border? How are you going to collect the tariff revenue on products coming into the UK? What do you think would happen to the ports in NI and their competitors in Eire? Would you be happy for no checks at Heathrow, or is that somehow different to the NI/Eire border?" There is no good Friday agreement attributed to Heathrow. | |||
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"I doubt it very much, we have a Tory government and they have form when it comes to sacrificing peace in Ireland to retain power in Westminster. Or to put it another way; I can't believe that the EU are so entrenched in their position that they would willingly and purposefully force war onto an exiting member's land, just to prove a point. Perhaps they have found the 'punishment' for a leave vote that they promised us before the referendum. I don't understand your point. The EU, like any market, has a duty to protect the integrity of its market. If it shares a border with a non-EU state whose standards are different from those of the EU, e.g. chlorinated chicken imported from the US, then it needs controls to maintain those standards. That's not punishment. The UK has agreed that, in the absence of any alternative arrangement, Northern Ireland will remain in the customs union. Thereby securing a key requirement of one of its members, Ireland, that there will be no hard border in Ireland. The problem has been created by the UK and everyone is agreed it is up to the UK to bring forward an alternative. Given that May has pledged no difference in regulations across the UK, the only realistic solution is for the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union. But she is a hostage of her own extremists and could easily topple over this. Silly me...and there I was, certain that the main reason for the EU's existence was to ensure there was peace in Europe. Peace between member states, you voted to leave that, remember? So you actively encourage the EU promoting wars in other areas as long as it's not in the EU? No, no one has suggested any such thing. You voted for Brexit. What's your solution? If the EU refuse to compromise over the Irish border issue then we should walk away from the table and leave with no deal (this also means the EU can kiss goodbye to that divorce bill). We will Trade on WTO rules. As for the border posts, the UK won't be erecting any, and won't manned with UK staff, it's the EU who want to put up border posts to protect their customs union, if the EU wants a border then they can man it with EU staff. That still doesn't solve the problem. So you would let anyone and anything sail straight through the border? How are you going to collect the tariff revenue on products coming into the UK? What do you think would happen to the ports in NI and their competitors in Eire? Would you be happy for no checks at Heathrow, or is that somehow different to the NI/Eire border? There is no good Friday agreement attributed to Heathrow. "But what difference does that make? You are happy for the border to be unsecured, right? | |||
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"Either way there is no point arguing it will be sorted soon may will concede to staying in the customs union" To be honest I think you will be proved wrong on this, I expect that on this issue May will not back down and that we are moving towards the hardest of hard brexits and it will not be until we leave and the EU ban the sale of all UK financial services into the EU that the reality of brexit will hit home. Personally I know a number of very intelligent life long socialists who are gleefully waiting the merchant banker/financial services/corporate bonus gravy train to come off the rails. | |||
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"Agreed ! Again it's classic EU stubbornness. Ok let's say it is eu stubbornness Does that justify westminster braking agreements that keep peace in the UK , No it doesn't what I'm saying is its typical EU Tactics. The way they act it's like they own the fookin world . I despise the bstds Hold up , they way they act is like they own they world
Australia
India
Most of Africa
America
Caribbean
Ireland
Where am I leaving out that has had a union Jack flying at some point in time
Who thinks they own the would ????"Far as I remember there are only 8 countries in the world that the UK hasnt invaded at some point or another and a fair few of them are very small nations. | |||
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"Either way there is no point arguing it will be sorted soon may will concede to staying in the customs union To be honest I think you will be proved wrong on this, I expect that on this issue May will not back down and that we are moving towards the hardest of hard brexits and it will not be until we leave and the EU ban the sale of all UK financial services into the EU that the reality of brexit will hit home. Personally I know a number of very intelligent life long socialists who are gleefully waiting the merchant banker/financial services/corporate bonus gravy train to come off the rails." 3 weeks at most more likely 3 days Till she roles back | |||
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"3 weeks at most more likely 3 days Till she roles back "I am conflicted. I hope your right for the sake of Ireland and want to see the Tories tare themselves apart, but I also hope your wrong because I want to see the Tories be totally destroyed as a result of a hard brexit. | |||
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"I find it very sad that independence & Sovereignty means nothing to some people here " Perhaps you can share your thoughts on what Sovereignty means? In triggering A50 the government acknowledged that we were "Sovereign " and always have been - So what's your understanding of it? | |||
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"I find it very sad that independence & Sovereignty means nothing to some people here " You live in England, England isn't independent or sovereign. It exchanged its independence for shared sovereignty with the rest of the UK. Similarly, when joining the EU (and predecessor organisations) the UK chose to pool it's sovereignty with other countries. | |||
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"The three posters above have differing views on how sovereign we are. We are not sovereign, however, on being able to make our own trade agreements, or tax, among other things. We have to comply with the EU regards VAT, they are pushing for alignment of corporation tax, and are putting together a common defence strategy, which will include forces, equipment, and infrastructure." The EU does not have the same rate of vat. Some contries like Ireland have 23% as you know the UK is 20% (standard rate). Each nation can set its own rate. Same applies to income tax. | |||
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"I find it very sad that independence & Sovereignty means nothing to some people here " | |||
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"3 weeks at most more likely 3 days Till she roles back
"Reported in The Guardian online this morning that Theresa May is refusing to budge on leaving the customs union. | |||
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"Why is it simply assumed that violence will resume in Ireland as a result of these border issues? That the good people of Ireland will want to forego peaceful existence and return to living in fear? I understand the border/no border issue needs resolution, but why assume that violence will ensue? because we don't want a fucking border in our country , and if any one thinks it will be built they are nuts , it's not going to happen this problem is of British making , Britain signed the good Friday agreement , now either the live up to what they agreed , or no one else will either , if the Britain puts up infrastructure along the border , It's a legitimate target , Can you please explain what you mean by 'legitimate target'? Very simple if Britain puts back border posts along the border Every last one of them should be blown off the map , Even if they are manned? As far as I remember in situations like that warning was given And if warnings are given and people are killed it makes it legitimate? Would you be staying in a check point if you were told it was going to come down around you in the next 10 minutes ?? Anyway they won't even get to the point of being manned , they will be down before they get to that point " I wasn't referring to just the staff manning the border post or checkpoint. It seems you are quite happy to count civilians going about there normal business as legitimate targets too. You should be ashamed of yourself defending any sort of violent murderous action. | |||
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"The three posters above have differing views on how sovereign we are. We are not sovereign, however, on being able to make our own trade agreements, or tax, among other things. We have to comply with the EU regards VAT, they are pushing for alignment of corporation tax, and are putting together a common defence strategy, which will include forces, equipment, and infrastructure." If we are not sovereign, then how are we leaving the EU? | |||
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"Why is it simply assumed that violence will resume in Ireland as a result of these border issues? That the good people of Ireland will want to forego peaceful existence and return to living in fear? I understand the border/no border issue needs resolution, but why assume that violence will ensue? because we don't want a fucking border in our country , and if any one thinks it will be built they are nuts , it's not going to happen this problem is of British making , Britain signed the good Friday agreement , now either the live up to what they agreed , or no one else will either , if the Britain puts up infrastructure along the border , It's a legitimate target , Can you please explain what you mean by 'legitimate target'? Very simple if Britain puts back border posts along the border Every last one of them should be blown off the map , Even if they are manned? As far as I remember in situations like that warning was given And if warnings are given and people are killed it makes it legitimate? Would you be staying in a check point if you were told it was going to come down around you in the next 10 minutes ?? Anyway they won't even get to the point of being manned , they will be down before they get to that point I wasn't referring to just the staff manning the border post or checkpoint. It seems you are quite happy to count civilians going about there normal business as legitimate targets too. You should be ashamed of yourself defending any sort of violent murderous action." I don't condone civilians being harmed , but I do condone the demolition of any border infrastructure , and any dimwits that try to in force a border on this island , | |||
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" Even if they are manned? FFS! I served in NI (as did many others here) and more live in NI and the rest of Ireland, but somehow even when an Irish wo/man tells you that a return of a hard border will herald a return of a violent insurgency and low level civil war (because that is what 'the troubles' were) your (and the Tory British government) reaction seems to be one of an incredulous, 'that will be your doing' and 'you should be grown up about this'. Trust me when I say that thanks to Tory gutting of our armed forces should the NI problem not be resolved in a way that protects the Good Friday Agreement in every detail the troubles will return and we will not be able to keep a lid on the situation. I will go further and predict that if that happens the republican bombing campaigns of the 70's 80's and 90's will be nothing to what will be unleashed on the mainland next time round. And all this because 1 Tory, Eaton posh boy would do anything to stay in power and 2 more were fighting over who would replace him when they forced him out." You keep telling us you are ex military! I bet you've got the tyre pressures stencilled on each wheel arch and a yellow diesel fuel cap on your car. | |||
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"Why is it simply assumed that violence will resume in Ireland as a result of these border issues? That the good people of Ireland will want to forego peaceful existence and return to living in fear? I understand the border/no border issue needs resolution, but why assume that violence will ensue? because we don't want a fucking border in our country , and if any one thinks it will be built they are nuts , it's not going to happen this problem is of British making , Britain signed the good Friday agreement , now either the live up to what they agreed , or no one else will either , if the Britain puts up infrastructure along the border , It's a legitimate target , Can you please explain what you mean by 'legitimate target'? Very simple if Britain puts back border posts along the border Every last one of them should be blown off the map , Even if they are manned? As far as I remember in situations like that warning was given And if warnings are given and people are killed it makes it legitimate? Would you be staying in a check point if you were told it was going to come down around you in the next 10 minutes ?? Anyway they won't even get to the point of being manned , they will be down before they get to that point I wasn't referring to just the staff manning the border post or checkpoint. It seems you are quite happy to count civilians going about there normal business as legitimate targets too. You should be ashamed of yourself defending any sort of violent murderous action. I don't condone civilians being harmed , but I do condone the demolition of any border infrastructure , and any dimwits that try to in force a border on this island , " You were condoning blowing it up with 15 minutes notice. | |||
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"The three posters above have differing views on how sovereign we are. We are not sovereign, however, on being able to make our own trade agreements, or tax, among other things. We have to comply with the EU regards VAT, they are pushing for alignment of corporation tax, and are putting together a common defence strategy, which will include forces, equipment, and infrastructure." You talk about "they" as if they are some foreign country. Everything the EU does is a result of decisions taken by 28 countries. That includes the UK. The voting record shows the UK in about 90 per cent agreement with EU28 decisions. The Commission implements those decisions. When you look at the weight attached to the voting power of each in the Council of Ministers, and compare it to the weight attached to the voting power of the four nations that make up the union of the UK, there is much greater equity in the EU than there is in the UK. You don't feel in control of decisions when 28 countries are taking part, even with an equitable distribution of voting power. So you want out. Now you can begin to understand the nationalist desires of Scotlanf, Wales and NI. Control is far more centralised in the UK than it is in the EU. | |||
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"The three posters above have differing views on how sovereign we are. We are not sovereign, however, on being able to make our own trade agreements, or tax, among other things. We have to comply with the EU regards VAT, they are pushing for alignment of corporation tax, and are putting together a common defence strategy, which will include forces, equipment, and infrastructure. The EU does not have the same rate of vat. Some contries like Ireland have 23% as you know the UK is 20% (standard rate). Each nation can set its own rate. Same applies to income tax." Can we remove VAT from energy bills? Can we remove vat altogether? Can we remove vat from tampons without the EU's permission do so? | |||
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" Can we remove VAT from energy bills? Can we remove vat altogether? Can we remove vat from tampons without the EU's permission do so?" Well the UK voted for that to be the case. Why are you complaining about getting what you voted for??  | |||
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"Can we give an extra £350m a week to the NHS without the permission of the EU? Yes we can. So why the fuck hasn’t it happened?" Because we haven't got it. | |||
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"The three posters above have differing views on how sovereign we are. We are not sovereign, however, on being able to make our own trade agreements, or tax, among other things. We have to comply with the EU regards VAT, they are pushing for alignment of corporation tax, and are putting together a common defence strategy, which will include forces, equipment, and infrastructure. The EU does not have the same rate of vat. Some contries like Ireland have 23% as you know the UK is 20% (standard rate). Each nation can set its own rate. Same applies to income tax. Can we remove VAT from energy bills? Can we remove vat altogether? Can we remove vat from tampons without the EU's permission do so?" Why would the UK want to remove it? Tax is raised to pay for services you can't have a low tax society and have a free NHS etc as we are discovering. Nothing comes free there is always a cost. We should be blocking all the loopholes which are being exploited! | |||
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"The three posters above have differing views on how sovereign we are. We are not sovereign, however, on being able to make our own trade agreements, or tax, among other things. We have to comply with the EU regards VAT, they are pushing for alignment of corporation tax, and are putting together a common defence strategy, which will include forces, equipment, and infrastructure. The EU does not have the same rate of vat. Some contries like Ireland have 23% as you know the UK is 20% (standard rate). Each nation can set its own rate. Same applies to income tax. Can we remove VAT from energy bills? Can we remove vat altogether? Can we remove vat from tampons without the EU's permission do so? Why would the UK want to remove it? Tax is raised to pay for services you can't have a low tax society and have a free NHS etc as we are discovering. Nothing comes free there is always a cost. We should be blocking all the loopholes which are being exploited! " Removing or reducing tax from energy bills would help some of the poorest in society and Michael Gove did make a suggestion of this as part of the Vote Leave campaign during the referendum, he also pointed out we can't currently do it because EU rules currently prevent us from doing so while we remain a member. We're all to aware that nothing comes for free, especially in the EU as we're a net contributor and pay an extortionate membership fee! | |||
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"We haven’t got what? £350m a week. The people who stood by that slogan already have that power and more. To give £350m a week extra to the NHS. They choose not to. Why? Might it have been an almighty act of good faith for them to do so? Or was it just a con, an attempt to hoodwink voters? " We haven't got it because we're sending it to the EU each week! | |||
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"We haven’t got what? £350m a week. The people who stood by that slogan already have that power and more. To give £350m a week extra to the NHS. They choose not to. Why? Might it have been an almighty act of good faith for them to do so? Or was it just a con, an attempt to hoodwink voters? We haven't got it because we're sending it to the EU each week! " The EU does not control UK spending. Those who stood beside that bus do. They have the power already to spend an extra £350 a week on the NHS. So why don't they? They clearly believed the NHS could benefit from extra money. They have the power to do so. They choose not to. Why? | |||
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"The three posters above have differing views on how sovereign we are. We are not sovereign, however, on being able to make our own trade agreements, or tax, among other things. We have to comply with the EU regards VAT, they are pushing for alignment of corporation tax, and are putting together a common defence strategy, which will include forces, equipment, and infrastructure. The EU does not have the same rate of vat. Some contries like Ireland have 23% as you know the UK is 20% (standard rate). Each nation can set its own rate. Same applies to income tax. Can we remove VAT from energy bills? Can we remove vat altogether? Can we remove vat from tampons without the EU's permission do so? Why would the UK want to remove it? Tax is raised to pay for services you can't have a low tax society and have a free NHS etc as we are discovering. Nothing comes free there is always a cost. We should be blocking all the loopholes which are being exploited! Removing or reducing tax from energy bills would help some of the poorest in society and Michael Gove did make a suggestion of this as part of the Vote Leave campaign during the referendum, he also pointed out we can't currently do it because EU rules currently prevent us from doing so while we remain a member. We're all to aware that nothing comes for free, especially in the EU as we're a net contributor and pay an extortionate membership fee!" Rubbish! Removing vat from energy is a "benefit " which everyone would get! If you want to help "the poor" then it has to be delivered to the qualifying individuals in a direct way not "blanket" payments. | |||
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"The three posters above have differing views on how sovereign we are. We are not sovereign, however, on being able to make our own trade agreements, or tax, among other things. We have to comply with the EU regards VAT, they are pushing for alignment of corporation tax, and are putting together a common defence strategy, which will include forces, equipment, and infrastructure. The EU does not have the same rate of vat. Some contries like Ireland have 23% as you know the UK is 20% (standard rate). Each nation can set its own rate. Same applies to income tax. Can we remove VAT from energy bills? Can we remove vat altogether? Can we remove vat from tampons without the EU's permission do so? Why would the UK want to remove it? Tax is raised to pay for services you can't have a low tax society and have a free NHS etc as we are discovering. Nothing comes free there is always a cost. We should be blocking all the loopholes which are being exploited! " The question is not if we would want to remove it, the question is can we, of our own free will, without the permission of the EU? The answer, as you well know, is no. | |||
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"The three posters above have differing views on how sovereign we are. We are not sovereign, however, on being able to make our own trade agreements, or tax, among other things. We have to comply with the EU regards VAT, they are pushing for alignment of corporation tax, and are putting together a common defence strategy, which will include forces, equipment, and infrastructure. The EU does not have the same rate of vat. Some contries like Ireland have 23% as you know the UK is 20% (standard rate). Each nation can set its own rate. Same applies to income tax. Can we remove VAT from energy bills? Can we remove vat altogether? Can we remove vat from tampons without the EU's permission do so? Why would the UK want to remove it? Tax is raised to pay for services you can't have a low tax society and have a free NHS etc as we are discovering. Nothing comes free there is always a cost. We should be blocking all the loopholes which are being exploited! The question is not if we would want to remove it, the question is can we, of our own free will, without the permission of the EU? The answer, as you well know, is no." That makes sense leave the eu so we are allowed to do something we don't want to do to start with  | |||
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"So who was the numpty who applied VAT in the first place? " We'll Mr Osborne raised it to 20% to make it progressive. As the BBC reported it. Nowhere does it say the EU forced it. In fact it was to reduce the deficit. | |||
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"So who was the numpty who applied VAT in the first place? We'll Mr Osborne raised it to 20% to make it progressive. As the BBC reported it. Nowhere does it say the EU forced it. In fact it was to reduce the deficit." In 2011 energy was in the 5% band. However the EU has a minimum of 15% and defined what is in the lower band. So in fact the EU is dictating what what has low tax and the minimum which we surpass. | |||
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"The three posters above have differing views on how sovereign we are. We are not sovereign, however, on being able to make our own trade agreements, or tax, among other things. We have to comply with the EU regards VAT, they are pushing for alignment of corporation tax, and are putting together a common defence strategy, which will include forces, equipment, and infrastructure. The EU does not have the same rate of vat. Some contries like Ireland have 23% as you know the UK is 20% (standard rate). Each nation can set its own rate. Same applies to income tax. Can we remove VAT from energy bills? Can we remove vat altogether? Can we remove vat from tampons without the EU's permission do so? Why would the UK want to remove it? Tax is raised to pay for services you can't have a low tax society and have a free NHS etc as we are discovering. Nothing comes free there is always a cost. We should be blocking all the loopholes which are being exploited! The question is not if we would want to remove it, the question is can we, of our own free will, without the permission of the EU? The answer, as you well know, is no. That makes sense leave the eu so we are allowed to do something we don't want to do to start with "Thats Brexiters for you. The UK government votes to have VAT work a certain way, then Brexiters complain that its happening and blames the EU instead of their own government. | |||
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"So who was the numpty who applied VAT in the first place? " VAT was originally a French idea, started in the 1950s. Britain introduced it as part of its condition of joining the European Economic Community. All countries joining the EEC had to replace their indirect taxes with the VAT. The minimum rate of VAT under EU Law is 15%. | |||
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"The three posters above have differing views on how sovereign we are. We are not sovereign, however, on being able to make our own trade agreements, or tax, among other things. We have to comply with the EU regards VAT, they are pushing for alignment of corporation tax, and are putting together a common defence strategy, which will include forces, equipment, and infrastructure. The EU does not have the same rate of vat. Some contries like Ireland have 23% as you know the UK is 20% (standard rate). Each nation can set its own rate. Same applies to income tax. Can we remove VAT from energy bills? Can we remove vat altogether? Can we remove vat from tampons without the EU's permission do so? Why would the UK want to remove it? Tax is raised to pay for services you can't have a low tax society and have a free NHS etc as we are discovering. Nothing comes free there is always a cost. We should be blocking all the loopholes which are being exploited! The question is not if we would want to remove it, the question is can we, of our own free will, without the permission of the EU? The answer, as you well know, is no. That makes sense leave the eu so we are allowed to do something we don't want to do to start with
Thats Brexiters for you.
The UK government votes to have VAT work a certain way, then Brexiters complain that its happening and blames the EU instead of their own government."That's remainers for you- unable to understand the concept of sovereignty. | |||
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"So who was the numpty who applied VAT in the first place? VAT was originally a French idea, started in the 1950s. Britain introduced it as part of its condition of joining the European Economic Community. All countries joining the EEC had to replace their indirect taxes with the VAT. The minimum rate of VAT under EU Law is 15%." Why do we have things rated at 0% then, like children's clothes? | |||
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"So who was the numpty who applied VAT in the first place? VAT was originally a French idea, started in the 1950s. Britain introduced it as part of its condition of joining the European Economic Community. All countries joining the EEC had to replace their indirect taxes with the VAT. The minimum rate of VAT under EU Law is 15%." Well how come a vat rate of 5% applies on some products still ?? | |||
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"So who was the numpty who applied VAT in the first place? VAT was originally a French idea, started in the 1950s. Britain introduced it as part of its condition of joining the European Economic Community. All countries joining the EEC had to replace their indirect taxes with the VAT. The minimum rate of VAT under EU Law is 15%. Why do we have things rated at 0% then, like children's clothes? "In the republic energy for heating and light (including natural gas, electricity, district heating, firewood and heating oil); All are at a rate 13.5 | |||
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"Solution!.... Hoola hoops! The uk side iz an open border. Any goods coming in must be able to fit it through a hoola hoop. " Fucking hell, we've got a member of DexEU in here! | |||
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"Solution!.... Hoola hoops! The uk side iz an open border. Any goods coming in must be able to fit it through a hoola hoop. Fucking hell, we've got a member of DexEU in here! " Lol.. You can, technically get a car through but in bits and re assemble later. | |||
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"So who was the numpty who applied VAT in the first place? VAT was originally a French idea, started in the 1950s. Britain introduced it as part of its condition of joining the European Economic Community. All countries joining the EEC had to replace their indirect taxes with the VAT. The minimum rate of VAT under EU Law is 15%. Why do we have things rated at 0% then, like children's clothes? "Because when we joined the EEC back in the 1970s, certain items were free of tax, and the UK was allowed to keep these at zero rated for VAT purposes. The lowest rate of VAT that an EU country can charge is 5%. | |||
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"So who was the numpty who applied VAT in the first place? VAT was originally a French idea, started in the 1950s. Britain introduced it as part of its condition of joining the European Economic Community. All countries joining the EEC had to replace their indirect taxes with the VAT. The minimum rate of VAT under EU Law is 15%. Why do we have things rated at 0% then, like children's clothes? "You really can use google to find all the rules out yourself, you know, and what the EU allows exemptions for. | |||
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"So who was the numpty who applied VAT in the first place? VAT was originally a French idea, started in the 1950s. Britain introduced it as part of its condition of joining the European Economic Community. All countries joining the EEC had to replace their indirect taxes with the VAT. The minimum rate of VAT under EU Law is 15%. Well how come a vat rate of 5% applies on some products still ??" You really can use google to find all the rules out yourself, you know, and what the EU allows exemptions for. | |||
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"You keep telling us you are ex military! I bet you've got the tyre pressures stencilled on each wheel arch and a yellow diesel fuel cap on your car. " Well to be honest when I owned my own business and had multiple vehicles and jerrycans to carry fuel for plant and generators I did (and colour coded many more things). Funnily enough many others laughed at my use of military methodology right up to the point that some dick put petrol into a diesel tank or had to replace tyres because they were incorrectly inflated. | |||
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"So who was the numpty who applied VAT in the first place? VAT was originally a French idea, started in the 1950s. Britain introduced it as part of its condition of joining the European Economic Community. All countries joining the EEC had to replace their indirect taxes with the VAT. The minimum rate of VAT under EU Law is 15%. Why do we have things rated at 0% then, like children's clothes?
You really can use google to find all the rules out yourself, you know, and what the EU allows exemptions for."Your statement was "The minimum rate of VAT under EU Law is 15%." This has been proven to be wrong for at least 2 examples, from 2 different EU countries. | |||
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"Can we remove VAT from energy bills? Can we remove vat altogether? Can we remove vat from tampons without the EU's permission do so?" Of course we could if we wanted to. But that would require raising income and corporation taxes, which would mean reversing 40 years of tax policy from moving from earnings taxes to spending taxes, thus forcing the rich to pay more and reducing taxes on the poor. Which is clearly an anathema to all the rich and powerful Tories who have controlled policy over the last 40 years. | |||
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"For those remainers who think we can do what we want with VAT, https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/eu-vat-rules-topic/vat-rates_en" Any product can be zero rated for VAT quite legally. | |||
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"For those remainers who think we can do what we want with VAT, https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/eu-vat-rules-topic/vat-rates_en Any product can be zero rated for VAT quite legally." In which case, why did we have to go to the EU to seek their permission to reduce VAT to zero on women's sanitary products? Why didn't we just do it? | |||
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"In which case, why did we have to go to the EU to seek their permission to reduce VAT to zero on women's sanitary products? Why didn't we just do it?" Because for years the right have used the EU as an excuse for introducing draconian regulations that effect the population in general and transfer wealth to and tax burden away from the wealthy. How many times have we heard 'the EU are forcing us... You couldn't make it up' to find out later that it had been made up! | |||
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"For those remainers who think we can do what we want with VAT, https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/eu-vat-rules-topic/vat-rates_en Any product can be zero rated for VAT quite legally." No it can't. EU Law won't allow it. | |||
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" Thats Brexiters for you. The UK government votes to have VAT work a certain way, then Brexiters complain that its happening and blames the EU instead of their own government. That's remainers for you- unable to understand the concept of sovereignty. " The UK had the sovreign choice on what to do with VAT and it CHOSE to agree to keep VAT in line with the rest of the EU. No one forced them into it. Typical brexiter, completely unwilling to let the UK take responsibility for its own choices. | |||
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"Only two options can sort the border issue the uk as a whole remain in the customs union , Or northern Ireland in customs union with customs posts at the ports , DUP will stop the second option , House of lords back option one And so will Tuesdays vote in the commons , And if that happens they'll be riots on the streets !! Leave means leave !!! " lol | |||
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"So some tory party vermin would decide that a no-deal, whilst erecting NI borders, would be a great conclusion to brexit? They're probably trying - not very well - to keep some of the swivel eyed, frothing tory cabinet and MPs somewhat constrained and quieter, until the Maybot concludes a deal that's not 100% ultra-rightwing and involes a customs union arrangement. To avoid a border you need customs union and regulatory alignment , That or a border in the sea " Borders exist obviously we legal demarcation points but this border could remain open, as at present, should the bumbling incompetents that are the UK government, agree to exist in a customs union with the EU, which would comply with the Good Friday agreement. A key problem is a group of minority extremists who don't care for compliance with anything, as they prefer a no deal Brexit at any cost. Theresa May suppresses them, including leadership challenges, by maintaining the prospect that they could get their preferred outcome. Her job retention will likely be short-term but she has just about enough intelligence to keep their party internal wars away from the public. With very little time left to conclude Brexit negotiations - not that many weeks even - the likelihood of getting a reasonably positive and compliant outcome that doesn't lead to conservative party internal combustion and good growth prospects for the UK economy, are almost nil. | |||
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"Happy St George's day. You loyal & patriotic bunch !!" Happy St George's day to you too. May He grace you with the enlightenment that not shouting "Britain First" and the like, not framing and worshipping N. Farage's posters of the Syrian refugees, not being a fanatic, etc, is NOT being disloyal but in fact, a declaration/reminder to the rest of the world that we are all human beings BEFORE anything else. Shame on the EU for looking after their interests/those of their 27 member countries. Hooray for the UK for wanting the same. Double standards much?
Didn't hear anyone complaining when the EU (WITH UK participation) was negotiating favourable trade agreements (for all of us, pre-Brexit) but were stifling the other party in the process!
Ideology for the sake of ideology shouldn't come before consideration for the well-being (financial and otherwise) of actual living, breathing and innocent people. Or May-be we could all live on ideology alone and also build a wall around us denouncing anything non-British. I'm sure D.Trump will cut us a deal on his leftover bricks from the Mexico border wall.
I'm all for sovereignty etc but I refuse to sacrifice (or even just risk!) peace, well-being, jobs, another Windrush-type fiasco, stability, etc. Not in my name! | |||
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" Thats Brexiters for you. The UK government votes to have VAT work a certain way, then Brexiters complain that its happening and blames the EU instead of their own government. That's remainers for you- unable to understand the concept of sovereignty. The UK had the sovreign choice on what to do with VAT and it CHOSE to agree to keep VAT in line with the rest of the EU. No one forced them into it. Typical brexiter, completely unwilling to let the UK take responsibility for its own choices." Can the UK choose to decrease VAT to zero? The answer is not without the permission of the EU. Typical remainer, not got a clue even though you're given all the links. | |||
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"For those remainers who think we can do what we want with VAT, https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/eu-vat-rules-topic/vat-rates_en Any product can be zero rated for VAT quite legally. No it can't. EU Law won't allow it." They own the fkin planet don't you know - arrogant pigs I felt like scratching my ass this morning but then I thought I'd better get permission from Juncker first as it may be against EU rules. | |||
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"They own the fkin planet don't you know - arrogant pigs I felt like scratching my ass this morning but then I thought I'd better get permission from Juncker first as it may be against EU rules. " And there was me thinking it was the likes of the Koch brothers, Vlad and the other 50 or so billionaires who owned the world and that the EU was attempting to redress the balance and force some regulation on them. Silly me I should have known it is the unregulated multinational corporations and their front-men like President Trump that are fighting to save the world from the excesses of the EU that are poisoning the planet in the name of profit. No... Something doesn't feel quite right there... Can anyone help me out? | |||
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"They own the fkin planet don't you know - arrogant pigs I felt like scratching my ass this morning but then I thought I'd better get permission from Juncker first as it may be against EU rules. And there was me thinking it was the likes of the Koch brothers, Vlad and the other 50 or so billionaires who owned the world and that the EU was attempting to redress the balance and force some regulation on them. Silly me I should have known it is the unregulated multinational corporations and their front-men like President Trump that are fighting to save the world from the excesses of the EU that are poisoning the planet in the name of profit. No... Something doesn't feel quite right there... Can anyone help me out?" Yes sure. As everyone knows, the UK sends it's monthly money directly to Jean Claude Junker's personal bank account, and he doles it out to people as he sees fit before going off and making up rules on his own that specifically target the UK and it's interests. Particularly relating to the length, depth and duration of posterior anti-itch remedies. Hope this helps. | |||
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"Yes sure. As everyone knows, the UK sends it's monthly money directly to Jean Claude Junker's personal bank account, and he doles it out to people as he sees fit before going off and making up rules on his own that specifically target the UK and it's interests. Particularly relating to the length, depth and duration of posterior anti-itch remedies. Hope this helps. " I spilt a very hot cup of coffee on my bollox when I read that!!! 
First time I have laughed that hard over a brexit post, I may be walking like John Wane for the next few days but its worth it...
Thank you so much for that post. | |||
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"They own the fkin planet don't you know - arrogant pigs I felt like scratching my ass this morning but then I thought I'd better get permission from Juncker first as it may be against EU rules. And there was me thinking it was the likes of the Koch brothers, Vlad and the other 50 or so billionaires who owned the world and that the EU was attempting to redress the balance and force some regulation on them. Silly me I should have known it is the unregulated multinational corporations and their front-men like President Trump that are fighting to save the world from the excesses of the EU that are poisoning the planet in the name of profit. No... Something doesn't feel quite right there... Can anyone help me out?" The EU is full of neoliberals and neoliberalism. Maybe the neoliberal policies of the EU like the Austerity imposed on Greece passed you by though? As for the large multinational corporations they make up their own rules in the EU through the format of the EU lobby rooms, where they crush any potential competition from the little people, and have them tied up to their eyeballs in regulation and red tape, while they pay their army of lawyers and solicitors to find loopholes and ways to get around it. While competition is stamped on and snuffed out by the multinationals then complacency sets in and growth and innovation stagnate. As we've already seen in the EU now this leads to the EU having the lowest growth rate of any continent in the world apart from Antarctica and sky high unemployment in most of Southern Europe. Hope that helped you out enough. | |||
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"They own the fkin planet don't you know - arrogant pigs I felt like scratching my ass this morning but then I thought I'd better get permission from Juncker first as it may be against EU rules. And there was me thinking it was the likes of the Koch brothers, Vlad and the other 50 or so billionaires who owned the world and that the EU was attempting to redress the balance and force some regulation on them. Silly me I should have known it is the unregulated multinational corporations and their front-men like President Trump that are fighting to save the world from the excesses of the EU that are poisoning the planet in the name of profit. No... Something doesn't feel quite right there... Can anyone help me out? The EU is full of neoliberals and neoliberalism. Maybe the neoliberal policies of the EU like the Austerity imposed on Greece passed you by though? As for the large multinational corporations they make up their own rules in the EU through the format of the EU lobby rooms, where they crush any potential competition from the little people, and have them tied up to their eyeballs in regulation and red tape, while they pay their army of lawyers and solicitors to find loopholes and ways to get around it. While competition is stamped on and snuffed out by the multinationals then complacency sets in and growth and innovation stagnate. As we've already seen in the EU now this leads to the EU having the lowest growth rate of any continent in the world apart from Antarctica and sky high unemployment in most of Southern Europe. Hope that helped you out enough. " Would this be the same companies you were hoping to attract post-brexit with low corporation tax from our own business focused and easily accessed government with their keenness for employment deregulation? I mean I already know the answer, I just want to be clear. | |||
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"Still no answers from brexiters on the actual opening post." Wel no, because the answer was given yesterday. We are leaving the customs union. So the EU might well now say there's no point in continuing negotiating this anymore Britain, fuck off now please. | |||
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"Still no answers from brexiters on the actual opening post." The EU have secretly concluded that the "backstop" option won't work either. This may not be the issue that brings Brexit down but it certainly will be a catalyst. | |||
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