FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Syria, nerve agents and theories

Syria, nerve agents and theories

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Just heard an interview from the BBC with the Syrian ambassador from the UK.

He accuses the BBC and other news outlets of propagating false news about the Syrian gas attack. He states the film and reports were from Jihadi or Jihadi-supporting organisations, with the intent of prodding the West to bring itself to ruin by war with Russia.

He points out there was nothing to be gained by using nerve gas on civilians in a situation of their imminent capitulation, in his words, "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory".

And all hot on fallout the nerve agent used in Salisbury, where one wonders who, what and why.

Could it be true?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Also, in an OPCW report issued today, states :" blood samples (from the two affected) indicated exposure to a nerve agent or a related compound. The subjects tested positive for a Novichek class nerve agent or a closely related agent."

So.......it's not necessarily Novichek, and they have no idea where it was made. Should we REALLY go to war over this lack of information?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Personally I think someone somewhere wants conflict between Russia & the west, I think their prodding Trump in his immature emotional unbalanced state to rile him enough into a rash act that will give Putin just cause for striking back.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Everyone said, as they did themselves, that Jihadis would evolve. It seems to me a very plausible explanation for why this is happening- and it is horribly concerning.

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"Also, in an OPCW report issued today, states :" blood samples (from the two affected) indicated exposure to a nerve agent or a related compound. The subjects tested positive for a Novichek class nerve agent or a closely related agent."

So.......it's not necessarily Novichek, and they have no idea where it was made. Should we REALLY go to war over this lack of information?"

Come on!

It's DEFINITELY Russia, because its "weapons grade" and only Russia could make it, in spite of the lab it was developed in being in Kazakhstan and scientists form all over the former USSR having been involved in it's development and the USA eventually dismantling the lab.

Because Putin wants to warn his enemies that if they mess with him, they will be involved in a botched assassination attempt, be very ill and then live to tell the tale. That'll show them how ruthlessly efficient Russia is at dealing with it's enemies!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Just heard an interview from the BBC with the Syrian ambassador from the UK.

He points out there was nothing to be gained by using nerve gas on civilians in a situation of their imminent capitulation, in his words, "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory".

And all hot on fallout the nerve agent used in Salisbury, where one wonders who, what and why.

Could it be true?"
.

That's because the "rebels" were talking about are called the army of Islam, they are the ones who took the only video of the so called gas bombings...

That's right the ARMY OF ISLAM which changed there name from Al nusra who are alqeidas representatives in Syria.

So people, were now funding and going to war for the very same people who flew planes into the twin towers... And what's more, every single media outlet is backing it.

I'm now of the opinion that war with Russia and China is inevitable, the USA has first strike nuclear ideology firmly held and I suspect it will becoming by the end of the year

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

All the reasons you've given FOR in being Russia are the same ones one could use for it NOT being Russia or, maybe more correctly, there being more than one possible source country/state.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

And before someone counteracts with ' there was verification from medics on the ground'- they were the 'White Helmets'.......guess who they are allied to?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"And before someone counteracts with ' there was verification from medics on the ground'- they were the 'White Helmets'.......guess who they are allied to? "
.

The Al nusra white helmets you mean?.

Like I said above, I am now of the opinion that war is inevitable, in the past we at least had left wing journalists willing to investigate and speak out against state propaganda.

Sadly this is no longer true, the state and the media are now aligned as one for the purpose of war

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"And before someone counteracts with ' there was verification from medics on the ground'- they were the 'White Helmets'.......guess who they are allied to? .

The Al nusra white helmets you mean?.

Like I said above, I am now of the opinion that war is inevitable, in the past we at least had left wing journalists willing to investigate and speak out against state propaganda.

Sadly this is no longer true, the state and the media are now aligned as one for the purpose of war"

Sadly, I think you are right.

There is almost nothing to choose between the press now (save the semi-amusing moments when the Independent appear to have had whoever was on work experience that week write an article)...

Although the Morning Star is still a decent read.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Let's not forget that Al nusra themselves were accused of using chemical weapons against kurds in Mosul while fighting Iraqi joint forces last year!!. I don't remember any line in the sand being drawn in that case where we were so eager to cruise missile the users of such weapons.

We can barrel bomb Yemeni children without a line in the sand being drawn, we can white phosphate kids in Gaza without a line in the sand being drawn.

But now we know, the line in the sand is being drawn and it's been drawn for quite some time... Syria must be bombed because it allies itself with Russia Iran and China.

The West has finally shown they've been in this with the sunnis all along.

The proxy war is over and the real one is about to begin

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Just heard an interview from the BBC with the Syrian ambassador from the UK.

He points out there was nothing to be gained by using nerve gas on civilians in a situation of their imminent capitulation, in his words, "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory".

And all hot on fallout the nerve agent used in Salisbury, where one wonders who, what and why.

Could it be true?.

That's because the "rebels" were talking about are called the army of Islam, they are the ones who took the only video of the so called gas bombings...

That's right the ARMY OF ISLAM which changed there name from Al nusra who are alqeidas representatives in Syria.

So people, were now funding and going to war for the very same people who flew planes into the twin towers... And what's more, every single media outlet is backing it.

I'm now of the opinion that war with Russia and China is inevitable, the USA has first strike nuclear ideology firmly held and I suspect it will becoming by the end of the year"

Haven't these so called 'rebels' in Syria already been caught using chemical weapons 3 times over the course of the past 7 years?

Have a look at UN reports from May 2013 on Google which say Rebels in Syria used Sarin against Assad government forces which also affected civilians.

What these 'rebels' really are though is Islamists, hardly any better than the ISIS lunatics we've just apparently got rid of. Yes Assad is a monster but if he is removed I think something far worse would take his place.

Meanwhile don't look over there at Yemen where the UN says the world's biggest humanitarian crisis is happening right now.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think it's pathetic we seem to feel the need to ignore conflicts in certain parts of the world, participate in bombing civilians & children in others and condem certain countries / threaten them possibly starting fucking WW3

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If I was to liken the UK to a film title it would have to be The Good, The Bad & The Ugly....we certainly fit all three

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

I'm reminded of Iraq.

The only evidence of WMD ever found there was buried remains of chemical weapons.

The component parts were supplied by manufacturers in Spain, the UK and the US.

Which tells you this current row is less about inhumane bombing - what's another 40 dead when 500,000 have been slaughtered already - and more about containment of the Russia-China-Iran axis in Syria.

The special relationship here is between Trump and Israel.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

Under R2P we have a duty to intervene, it should be massive international force under UN command with key objectives being disarmament and rebuilding the economy and civilian infrastructure.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So.......it's not necessarily Novichek, and they have no idea where it was made. Should we REALLY go to war over this lack of information?

Come on!

Just like Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction??

thought the talk of war was due to the actions of Syria, not Novichek poisoning?

perhaps you have inside info you would like to share

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By *agermeisterMan over a year ago

Leeds

"Just heard an interview from the BBC with the Syrian ambassador from the UK.

He points out there was nothing to be gained by using nerve gas on civilians in a situation of their imminent capitulation, in his words, "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory".

And all hot on fallout the nerve agent used in Salisbury, where one wonders who, what and why.

Could it be true?"

No 'could it?' about it

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By *agermeisterMan over a year ago

Leeds

So.......it's not necessarily Novichek, and they have no idea where it was made. Should we REALLY go to war over this lack of information?"

Worked for Blair and Iraq

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

So.......it's not necessarily Novichek, and they have no idea where it was made. Should we REALLY go to war over this lack of information?

Come on!

Just like Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction??

thought the talk of war was due to the actions of Syria, not Novichek poisoning?

perhaps you have inside info you would like to share"

I refer you to the title of the thread.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Under R2P we have a duty to intervene, it should be massive international force under UN command with key objectives being disarmament and rebuilding the economy and civilian infrastructure. "

True, if not us then who will intervene.Its the right thing to do.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This whole episode is dodgy as fuck.

Theres lots of propaganda bandied about and were being olayed for fools.

To cut to the chase...

We have unconfirmed 'evidence' (a video of kids being hosed down) from possible jihadis which is taken as solid 'confirmed' evidence.

Fabio mentioned Russia blocking a number of motions at the UN, But i watched the Russian envoy at the UN offer to take an independent body to examine the area.

My thoughts are America want to control syria via a proxy war and are pissed off theyre loosing, so, ignoring international law as usual, launching an effort to reverse it., either by falling for dodgy evidence, or knowing the evidence is bollocks and using it as an excuse, either way, risking escalating this into ww3

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Under R2P we have a duty to intervene, it should be massive international force under UN command with key objectives being disarmament and rebuilding the economy and civilian infrastructure.

True, if not us then who will intervene.Its the right thing to do.

But based on what bob ?, actual evidence or some unconfirmed vodeo footage?

Would you be willing to be a sucker for jihadi fabricated evidence?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This whole episode is dodgy as fuck.

Theres lots of propaganda bandied about and were being olayed for fools.

To cut to the chase...

We have unconfirmed 'evidence' (a video of kids being hosed down) from possible jihadis which is taken as solid 'confirmed' evidence.

Fabio mentioned Russia blocking a number of motions at the UN, But i watched the Russian envoy at the UN offer to take an independent body to examine the area.

Thought America was about to pull out of Syria before things esculated

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 13/04/18 10:08:49]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This whole episode is dodgy as fuck.

Theres lots of propaganda bandied about and were being olayed for fools.

To cut to the chase...

We have unconfirmed 'evidence' (a video of kids being hosed down) from possible jihadis which is taken as solid 'confirmed' evidence.

Fabio mentioned Russia blocking a number of motions at the UN, But i watched the Russian envoy at the UN offer to take an independent body to examine the area.

Thought America was about to pull out of Syria before things esculated"

Trumps erratic. He said that yet there are uninvited us bases in Syria.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"This whole episode is dodgy as fuck.

Theres lots of propaganda bandied about and were being olayed for fools.

To cut to the chase...

We have unconfirmed 'evidence' (a video of kids being hosed down) from possible jihadis which is taken as solid 'confirmed' evidence.

Fabio mentioned Russia blocking a number of motions at the UN, But i watched the Russian envoy at the UN offer to take an independent body to examine the area.

Thought America was about to pull out of Syria before things esculated"

They were and Trump said the week before the chemical attack he was pulling US forces out of Syria. On that basis it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever for Assad to use chemical weapons. Assad and Russia and Iran had effectively won against the rebels, they could have easily taken Douma (the last rebel stronghold) without using chemical weapons. Makes no sense for Assad to have used them at all.

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By *iverpool LoverMan over a year ago

liverpool

"This whole episode is dodgy as fuck.

Theres lots of propaganda bandied about and were being olayed for fools.

To cut to the chase...

We have unconfirmed 'evidence' (a video of kids being hosed down) from possible jihadis which is taken as solid 'confirmed' evidence.

Fabio mentioned Russia blocking a number of motions at the UN, But i watched the Russian envoy at the UN offer to take an independent body to examine the area.

Thought America was about to pull out of Syria before things esculated

Yep makes no sense what so ever to almost everyone i know and on here and yet to the media and politicians they dont seem to have this common sense nor have i seen any one of them even ask that same thing.

They are all chomping at the bit for a good ole war.

Its so head scratching beyond belief.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"This whole episode is dodgy as fuck.

Theres lots of propaganda bandied about and were being olayed for fools.

To cut to the chase...

We have unconfirmed 'evidence' (a video of kids being hosed down) from possible jihadis which is taken as solid 'confirmed' evidence.

Fabio mentioned Russia blocking a number of motions at the UN, But i watched the Russian envoy at the UN offer to take an independent body to examine the area.

Thought America was about to pull out of Syria before things esculated

Tend to agree, assad saw trumps reaction last year so why when the Americans are pulling out put that in jeopardy and risk another trump response?

The whole thing looks iffy..

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"Personally I think someone somewhere wants conflict between Russia & the west, I think their prodding Trump in his immature emotional unbalanced state to rile him enough into a rash act that will give Putin just cause for striking back. "
Sadly I agree with you

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"Under R2P we have a duty to intervene, it should be massive international force under UN command with key objectives being disarmament and rebuilding the economy and civilian infrastructure. "
So you want world war three then!!!

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"I think it's pathetic we seem to feel the need to ignore conflicts in certain parts of the world, participate in bombing civilians & children in others and condem certain countries / threaten them possibly starting fucking WW3

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

So, what can we do about it?

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By *ary_ArgyllMan over a year ago

Argyll

"So, what can we do about it?"

Start digging your nuclear bunker.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, what can we do about it?"

Nothing .You could i suppose write a letter to the PM.Or march on Westminster with some tree huggers and pacifists.They are a friendly bunch.

I will be watching the missles fly through the streets of Damascus one evening on the news.I imagine the Russians will be ineffective against our superior technology.

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By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

"I'm reminded of Iraq.

The only evidence of WMD ever found there was buried remains of chemical weapons.

The component parts were supplied by manufacturers in Spain, the UK and the US.

The special relationship here is between Trump and Israel.

The only evidence?

What about the weapon developed and used during the Iraq-Iran war?

What about the artillery shells and bombs found that could only be used for delivering chemical weapons?

They also found aircraft tanks that could be used to spray the chemical agent (a bit like crop dusting).

So, there was much more than just a few drums of chemical agent.

My personal feeling is that there is tonnes more buried somewhere in the desert.

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By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

And, of course, what about the dead bodies from the two chemical attacks carried out against the Marsh Kurds....the worst kind of evidence, men, women and children denied the right to life.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ive a spare positive pressure B.A. set if anyone is interested

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"So, what can we do about it?"

Our duty is to intervene, and put boots on the ground to end the bloodshed in Syria, Yemen too.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, what can we do about it?

Our duty is to intervene, and put boots on the ground to end the bloodshed in Syria, Yemen too."

will you be at the front of the queue for conscription

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"So, what can we do about it?

Our duty is to intervene, and put boots on the ground to end the bloodshed in Syria, Yemen too."

Without any evidence that it was a Syrian attack?

Do you find it justifiable that we haven't done the same to Israel for their use of white phosphorus?

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"So, what can we do about it?

Our duty is to intervene, and put boots on the ground to end the bloodshed in Syria, Yemen too.

Without any evidence that it was a Syrian attack?

Do you find it justifiable that we haven't done the same to Israel for their use of white phosphorus?"

Assad is not protecting his people, the international community have a "responsibility to protect" citizens of a state if the state either cannot, or will not protect them. We signed up to R2P, so now it's time to act.

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"So, what can we do about it?

Our duty is to intervene, and put boots on the ground to end the bloodshed in Syria, Yemen too.

Without any evidence that it was a Syrian attack?

Do you find it justifiable that we haven't done the same to Israel for their use of white phosphorus?

How do you know it was Assad with no independent investigation whatsoever?

You haven't answered my question about Israel.

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By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

Lord Hanay, who used to be the UK's ambassador to the UN, and has spent his entire career in diplomacy, has said that we cannot trust the Russians.

"Russia has denied each and every chemical weapons attack by Assad, yet each time they have been proved wrong. Assad is Russia's poodle."

He also says that the UN is a waste of time, as Russia keeps vetoing attempts to investigate each attack. He postulates that, if there is nothing to hide, why do they block attempts to find the truth, surely if this is "fake news" it would suit them to have an investigation to prove so?

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"Lord Hanay, who used to be the UK's ambassador to the UN, and has spent his entire career in diplomacy, has said that we cannot trust the Russians.

"Russia has denied each and every chemical weapons attack by Assad, yet each time they have been proved wrong. Assad is Russia's poodle."

Why would they use chemical weapons now, when their war is pretty much won?

It makes no sense, which is why it merits investigation.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"So, what can we do about it?

Our duty is to intervene, and put boots on the ground to end the bloodshed in Syria, Yemen too.

Without any evidence that it was a Syrian attack?

Do you find it justifiable that we haven't done the same to Israel for their use of white phosphorus?

How do you know it was Assad with no independent investigation whatsoever?

You haven't answered my question about Israel."

Assad has previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons, he is also using other indiscriminately means such as barrel bombs, targeting journalists, targeting civilians, civilians are also is danger in other areas of the country not controlled by Assad. To say that civilians are perfectly safe and their human rights are being protected is patently absurd.

I don't think the situation in Israel is the same, and needing of international protection, but if you do, then state your case.

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By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

"Lord Hanay, who used to be the UK's ambassador to the UN, and has spent his entire career in diplomacy, has said that we cannot trust the Russians.

"Russia has denied each and every chemical weapons attack by Assad, yet each time they have been proved wrong. Assad is Russia's poodle."

Why would they use chemical weapons now, when their war is pretty much won?

It makes no sense, which is why it merits investigation."

Absolutely... do me a favour, tell that to the Russians, who have vetoed 12... yes that's twelve, motions in the UN to send an INDEPENDANT team of investigators in to collect evidence.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

So Yemen, Syria and does the DRC count too?

Going to be busy for our depleted armed forces..

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"Lord Hanay, who used to be the UK's ambassador to the UN, and has spent his entire career in diplomacy, has said that we cannot trust the Russians.

"Russia has denied each and every chemical weapons attack by Assad, yet each time they have been proved wrong. Assad is Russia's poodle."

Why would they use chemical weapons now, when their war is pretty much won?

It makes no sense, which is why it merits investigation.

Absolutely... do me a favour, tell that to the Russians, who have vetoed 12... yes that's twelve, motions in the UN to send an INDEPENDANT team of investigators in to collect evidence."

Russia has offered to provide millitary escorts to the OPCW.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Lord Hanay, who used to be the UK's ambassador to the UN, and has spent his entire career in diplomacy, has said that we cannot trust the Russians.

"Russia has denied each and every chemical weapons attack by Assad, yet each time they have been proved wrong. Assad is Russia's poodle."

Why would they use chemical weapons now, when their war is pretty much won?

It makes no sense, which is why it merits investigation.

Absolutely... do me a favour, tell that to the Russians, who have vetoed 12... yes that's twelve, motions in the UN to send an INDEPENDANT team of investigators in to collect evidence."
.

There's inspectors in Damascus already that the Russians have assured safe passage to.

You really need to pay attention to the word "independent"

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en5iurfnVCo

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The opcw found that the Syrian government was responsible for last year's attack despite not one single person from the opcw ever putting one foot there!.

The joint independent inspection team which America has insisted be part of the inspection are highly distrusted by the Russians for reasons like this.

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By *iverpool LoverMan over a year ago

liverpool

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en5iurfnVCo"

Good watch.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, what can we do about it?

Our duty is to intervene, and put boots on the ground to end the bloodshed in Syria, Yemen too.

Without any evidence that it was a Syrian attack?

Do you find it justifiable that we haven't done the same to Israel for their use of white phosphorus?

How do you know it was Assad with no independent investigation whatsoever?

You haven't answered my question about Israel.

I don't think the situation in Israel is the same, and needing of international protection, but if you do, then state your case."
.

Israel shot 6 journalists last week alone!.

Most western journalists are reporting on Syria while based in Lebanon or turkey or Jordan... Some of them are even in New York and London.

The only British journalist I can remember going was Christian guru Murphy

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By *ustme6Man over a year ago

tamworth

And the independent inspectors in the UK case said....don't disagree with UK conclusions. ..Russia has for a very long time been playing an extremely dangerous game...think the chickens are firmly home too roost ..

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"So, what can we do about it?

Our duty is to intervene, and put boots on the ground to end the bloodshed in Syria, Yemen too.

Without any evidence that it was a Syrian attack?

Do you find it justifiable that we haven't done the same to Israel for their use of white phosphorus?

How do you know it was Assad with no independent investigation whatsoever?

You haven't answered my question about Israel.

I don't think the situation in Israel is the same, and needing of international protection, but if you do, then state your case..

Israel shot 6 journalists last week alone!.

Most western journalists are reporting on Syria while based in Lebanon or turkey or Jordan... Some of them are even in New York and London.

The only British journalist I can remember going was Christian guru Murphy"

So you think there should be international peacekeeping troops in Israel?

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

Israel shot 6 journalists last week alone!.

Most western journalists are reporting on Syria while based in Lebanon or turkey or Jordan... Some of them are even in New York and London.

The only British journalist I can remember going was Christian guru Murphy"

What were their names? According to the International Press Institute, only one journalist has been killed this year in Israel/Palestine, Yaser Murtaja.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en5iurfnVCo

Good watch.

It says that Russian war planes have been buzzing US ships in international water. That shows how aggressive the Russians are being.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Israel shot 6 journalists last week alone!.

Most western journalists are reporting on Syria while based in Lebanon or turkey or Jordan... Some of them are even in New York and London.

The only British journalist I can remember going was Christian guru Murphy

What were their names? According to the International Press Institute, only one journalist has been killed this year in Israel/Palestine, Yaser Murtaja. "
.

That's because I said Israel shot 6 journalists last week.

It was reported by Reuters.

The Israel troops killed dozens while shooting live rounds at unarmed protesters who are living in hell in an occupied territory which has at least 20 UN resolutions over the last 25 years telling the Israelis they should "fuck off" .

I mean if we're gonna insist on bombing Damascus I think out of fairness we should also cruise missile Tel-Aviv

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By *iverpool LoverMan over a year ago

liverpool

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en5iurfnVCo

Good watch.

It says that Russian war planes have been buzzing US ships in international water. That shows how aggressive the Russians are being.

Your deluded sorry.

Only aggressors towards russia has been from the west...for years.

So if russia are reacting to the wests actions then so be it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Israel shot a 1000 unarmed people demonstrating about Israel illegally occupying there own land, they were caught deliberately targeting journalists and shot 6 of them but we just don't seem to be willing to bomb Tel-Aviv.

I guess it's because there white and not brown that we're so willing to bomb one but not the other

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"And the independent inspectors in the UK case said....don't disagree with UK conclusions. ..Russia has for a very long time been playing an extremely dangerous game...think the chickens are firmly home too roost ..

They didn't disagree - Porton down said they couldn't know where it was made.

OPCW didn't say they agreed with the foreign office about the source of the attack, only what the nerve agent was.

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en5iurfnVCo

Good watch.

It says that Russian war planes have been buzzing US ships in international water. That shows how aggressive the Russians are being.

If that is all you took from that interview, I pity your intellect.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

The Russians have been exceeding their borders for years, Crimea etc.

They have been conducting dummy bombing runs towards the UK for years too, as well as sending in submarines to other countries coastal waters.

They claim that the West is to blame for the tensions, but deny all accusations against them.

Now the Russians claim they have "absolute proof" that it was the UK who ordered the chemical weapons attack.

Lies, mis-direction and smoke and mirrors, if I had to stake my life on one side, it would be the UK.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en5iurfnVCo

Good watch.

It says that Russian war planes have been buzzing US ships in international water. That shows how aggressive the Russians are being.

If that is all you took from that interview, I pity your intellect. "

https://youtu.be/KU5taO5vRDo

Here is another BBC interview with Peter Ford. In the one that you posted, he was claiming that the images were faked, and there was no chemical weapon attack, in his 2nd interview with the BBC, he claims there was a chemical attack, but he isn't sure if it was committed by the Assad regime, or if the Assad regime hit an opposition chemical weapons cache.

There seem to be 2 very different positions.

Which one do you believe from him, and why?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en5iurfnVCo

Good watch.

It says that Russian war planes have been buzzing US ships in international water. That shows how aggressive the Russians are being.

Your deluded sorry.

Only aggressors towards russia has been from the west...for years.

So if russia are reacting to the wests actions then so be it."

That's fine, you can call me deluded, I was just saying that was what was said in a video that you described as a good watch. Do you think Former Ambassador Ford was lying about Russian planes buzzing the US navy?

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"So, what can we do about it?

Our duty is to intervene, and put boots on the ground to end the bloodshed in Syria, Yemen too.

Without any evidence that it was a Syrian attack?

Do you find it justifiable that we haven't done the same to Israel for their use of white phosphorus?

How do you know it was Assad with no independent investigation whatsoever?

You haven't answered my question about Israel.

Assad has previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons"

Rebel fighters have also previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons in Syria. Its on record at the UN.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"So, what can we do about it?

Our duty is to intervene, and put boots on the ground to end the bloodshed in Syria, Yemen too.

Without any evidence that it was a Syrian attack?

Do you find it justifiable that we haven't done the same to Israel for their use of white phosphorus?

How do you know it was Assad with no independent investigation whatsoever?

You haven't answered my question about Israel.

Assad has previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons

Rebel fighters have also previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons in Syria. Its on record at the UN."

Even more reason to go in

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"So, what can we do about it?

Our duty is to intervene, and put boots on the ground to end the bloodshed in Syria, Yemen too.

Without any evidence that it was a Syrian attack?

Do you find it justifiable that we haven't done the same to Israel for their use of white phosphorus?

How do you know it was Assad with no independent investigation whatsoever?

You haven't answered my question about Israel.

Assad has previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons

Rebel fighters have also previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons in Syria. Its on record at the UN.

Even more reason to go in

And attack who? Are you advocating we attack both the rebels and Assad forces now then????....because they have both used chemical weapons in Syria.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"So, what can we do about it?

Our duty is to intervene, and put boots on the ground to end the bloodshed in Syria, Yemen too.

Without any evidence that it was a Syrian attack?

Do you find it justifiable that we haven't done the same to Israel for their use of white phosphorus?

How do you know it was Assad with no independent investigation whatsoever?

You haven't answered my question about Israel.

Assad has previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons

Rebel fighters have also previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons in Syria. Its on record at the UN.

Even more reason to go in

And attack who? Are you advocating we attack both the rebels and Assad forces now then????....because they have both used chemical weapons in Syria.

Disarm them both.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Lies, mis-direction and smoke and mirrors, if I had to stake my life on one side, it would be the UK."
.

Is it worth your life?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"So, what can we do about it?

Our duty is to intervene, and put boots on the ground to end the bloodshed in Syria, Yemen too.

Without any evidence that it was a Syrian attack?

Do you find it justifiable that we haven't done the same to Israel for their use of white phosphorus?

How do you know it was Assad with no independent investigation whatsoever?

You haven't answered my question about Israel.

Assad has previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons

Rebel fighters have also previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons in Syria. Its on record at the UN.

Even more reason to go in

And attack who? Are you advocating we attack both the rebels and Assad forces now then????....because they have both used chemical weapons in Syria.

Disarm them both. "

The war is effectively over now. The rebels have lost, Assad has won, Douma where this alleged chemical attack took place was the last rebel stronghold. Why are you hell bent on disarming now by force and taking military action now the war there has effectively ended? You are a war monger, no better than Blair!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, what can we do about it?

Our duty is to intervene, and put boots on the ground to end the bloodshed in Syria, Yemen too.

Without any evidence that it was a Syrian attack?

Do you find it justifiable that we haven't done the same to Israel for their use of white phosphorus?

How do you know it was Assad with no independent investigation whatsoever?

You haven't answered my question about Israel.

Assad has previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons

Rebel fighters have also previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons in Syria. Its on record at the UN.

Even more reason to go in

And attack who? Are you advocating we attack both the rebels and Assad forces now then????....because they have both used chemical weapons in Syria.

Disarm them both. "
.

This isn't a boys own adventure you know??.

Neither side are going to give up to you, how exactly are you going to disarm them?.

Guerrilla warfare house to house, Street by Street, how many women and children are you going to kill in your noble pursuit... A million like in Iraq?.

Your a madman, your Dr strange love riding your bomb of peace

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You can always tell the mad men when the gun threads start and there quoting velocity numbers and impact volumes.

They've been wanking over guns and ammo instead of Playboy like the rest of us

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"So, what can we do about it?

Our duty is to intervene, and put boots on the ground to end the bloodshed in Syria, Yemen too.

Without any evidence that it was a Syrian attack?

Do you find it justifiable that we haven't done the same to Israel for their use of white phosphorus?

How do you know it was Assad with no independent investigation whatsoever?

You haven't answered my question about Israel.

Assad has previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons

Rebel fighters have also previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons in Syria. Its on record at the UN.

Even more reason to go in

And attack who? Are you advocating we attack both the rebels and Assad forces now then????....because they have both used chemical weapons in Syria.

Disarm them both. .

This isn't a boys own adventure you know??.

Neither side are going to give up to you, how exactly are you going to disarm them?.

Guerrilla warfare house to house, Street by Street, how many women and children are you going to kill in your noble pursuit... A million like in Iraq?.

Your a madman, your Dr strange love riding your bomb of peace"

Do you even know what R2P is?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

Lies, mis-direction and smoke and mirrors, if I had to stake my life on one side, it would be the UK..

Is it worth your life?"

I've put my life on the line for my country in the past.

I realise that no country anywhere in the world is perfect, and I'm sure that the UK has a few skeletons in its closet.

But in this instance, its clear hypocrisy from the Russians to veto a UN resolution which suggests an investigation, whilst at the same time asking for proof that Syria carried out this attack.

Whilst some of them cant be proved, its suggested that Syria has used chemical weapons up to 50 times during this conflict, whilst ISIS may have used them 4 times. Both sides are in danger of normalising the use of these weapons in warfare, which is something that cannot be allowed. Even without this particular attack, it has been proved that Syria has used these weapons, and Russia has covered up, denied, and let Assad continue to flout international law.

Remember, Russia had promised that Syria would, and did, destroy all its stockpiles of chemical weapons... so, how much credence can you now put in Russians words... or do you think that they are being hoodwinked by the Syrians?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Lies, mis-direction and smoke and mirrors, if I had to stake my life on one side, it would be the UK..

Is it worth your life?

I've put my life on the line for my country in the past.

I realise that no country anywhere in the world is perfect, and I'm sure that the UK has a few skeletons in its closet.

But in this instance, its clear hypocrisy from the Russians to veto a UN resolution which suggests an investigation, whilst at the same time asking for proof that Syria carried out this attack.

They did destroy them!.

It was carried under the Obama administration on a purpose built US warship several years ago.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

So.......it's not necessarily Novichek, and they have no idea where it was made. Should we REALLY go to war over this lack of information?"

i need to point out this is not actually true....

the wording of the report said that the OPCW "agreed with the accessment of the agent used with the UK government" and that the agent used was "of very high grade with very little impurities"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

Lies, mis-direction and smoke and mirrors, if I had to stake my life on one side, it would be the UK..

Is it worth your life?

I've put my life on the line for my country in the past.

I realise that no country anywhere in the world is perfect, and I'm sure that the UK has a few skeletons in its closet.

But in this instance, its clear hypocrisy from the Russians to veto a UN resolution which suggests an investigation, whilst at the same time asking for proof that Syria carried out this attack.

They did destroy them!.

It was carried under the Obama administration on a purpose built US warship several years ago."

Sure, so the Syrians and the Russians said "There you go, that's the lot, all gone", and we are supposed to believe them?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Lies, mis-direction and smoke and mirrors, if I had to stake my life on one side, it would be the UK..

Is it worth your life?

I've put my life on the line for my country in the past.

I realise that no country anywhere in the world is perfect, and I'm sure that the UK has a few skeletons in its closet.

But in this instance, its clear hypocrisy from the Russians to veto a UN resolution which suggests an investigation, whilst at the same time asking for proof that Syria carried out this attack.

They did destroy them!.

It was carried under the Obama administration on a purpose built US warship several years ago.

Sure, so the Syrians and the Russians said "There you go, that's the lot, all gone", and we are supposed to believe them?"
.

I don't know, I'm only pointing out that they did actually agree to Obama's offer and carried out a disposal of chemical weapons to a US warship several years ago.

Your the one claiming to know different so please tell me how you know different

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"So, what can we do about it?

Our duty is to intervene, and put boots on the ground to end the bloodshed in Syria, Yemen too.

Without any evidence that it was a Syrian attack?

Do you find it justifiable that we haven't done the same to Israel for their use of white phosphorus?

How do you know it was Assad with no independent investigation whatsoever?

You haven't answered my question about Israel.

Assad has previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons

Rebel fighters have also previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons in Syria. Its on record at the UN.

Even more reason to go in

And attack who? Are you advocating we attack both the rebels and Assad forces now then????....because they have both used chemical weapons in Syria.

Disarm them both. .

This isn't a boys own adventure you know??.

Neither side are going to give up to you, how exactly are you going to disarm them?.

Guerrilla warfare house to house, Street by Street, how many women and children are you going to kill in your noble pursuit... A million like in Iraq?.

Your a madman, your Dr strange love riding your bomb of peace

Do you even know what R2P is?"

I'll take that as a "no" then.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Lord Hanay, who used to be the UK's ambassador to the UN, and has spent his entire career in diplomacy, has said that we cannot trust the Russians.

"Russia has denied each and every chemical weapons attack by Assad, yet each time they have been proved wrong. Assad is Russia's poodle."

Why would they use chemical weapons now, when their war is pretty much won?

It makes no sense, which is why it merits investigation.

Absolutely... do me a favour, tell that to the Russians, who have vetoed 12... yes that's twelve, motions in the UN to send an INDEPENDANT team of investigators in to collect evidence.

Russia has offered to provide millitary escorts to the OPCW....."

actually what was offered on both sides was the following...

the west wanted the same mechanism that was in place that the UN agreed to in the past, of which the joint mandate between the un and the OPCW ran out in november.......

they actually are asking for nothing extra... not one thing.....

(on a side note.. the russians have now vetoed this 5 time since the mandate ran out.... but that isn't part of the conversation)

what the russians actually wanted was that the OPCW could come in.... but they have to be flanked by other russian or syrian security forces....

... and all the OPCW monitors had to be run past and confirmed by them, they had right of veto over any person (even though it was independent)

.... and the independent report had to be run past russia first....... so they had first response to the report (as opposed to all countries getting the report at the same time).....

....and russia had veto over whether the final report was made public... (so if they didn't like the findings, it would never see the public domain)

again... and it needs to be point out....

the russians have vetoed replacing the system with the SAME system that was in place 5 times since the mandate ran out.....

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"So, what can we do about it?

Our duty is to intervene, and put boots on the ground to end the bloodshed in Syria, Yemen too.

Without any evidence that it was a Syrian attack?

Do you find it justifiable that we haven't done the same to Israel for their use of white phosphorus?

How do you know it was Assad with no independent investigation whatsoever?

You haven't answered my question about Israel.

Assad has previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons

Rebel fighters have also previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons in Syria. Its on record at the UN.

Even more reason to go in

And attack who? Are you advocating we attack both the rebels and Assad forces now then????....because they have both used chemical weapons in Syria.

Disarm them both. "

You are not serious..

And the Russians too yes?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

can i ask those who seem to believe the russian syrian side a question...

if russians are happy with the OPCW and good enough to come in with regards to syrian crisis, why is the OPCW report with regards to salisbury being rubbished by the russians to the point they produce their own report on "what happened"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

Lies, mis-direction and smoke and mirrors, if I had to stake my life on one side, it would be the UK..

Is it worth your life?

I've put my life on the line for my country in the past.

I realise that no country anywhere in the world is perfect, and I'm sure that the UK has a few skeletons in its closet.

But in this instance, its clear hypocrisy from the Russians to veto a UN resolution which suggests an investigation, whilst at the same time asking for proof that Syria carried out this attack.

They did destroy them!.

It was carried under the Obama administration on a purpose built US warship several years ago.

Sure, so the Syrians and the Russians said "There you go, that's the lot, all gone", and we are supposed to believe them?.

I don't know, I'm only pointing out that they did actually agree to Obama's offer and carried out a disposal of chemical weapons to a US warship several years ago.

Your the one claiming to know different so please tell me how you know different"

Well, its simple really... the Syrians keep using chemical weapons... bit of a giveaway that they still have stockpiles, isn't it?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Lies, mis-direction and smoke and mirrors, if I had to stake my life on one side, it would be the UK..

Is it worth your life?

I've put my life on the line for my country in the past.

I realise that no country anywhere in the world is perfect, and I'm sure that the UK has a few skeletons in its closet.

But in this instance, its clear hypocrisy from the Russians to veto a UN resolution which suggests an investigation, whilst at the same time asking for proof that Syria carried out this attack.

They did destroy them!.

It was carried under the Obama administration on a purpose built US warship several years ago.

Sure, so the Syrians and the Russians said "There you go, that's the lot, all gone", and we are supposed to believe them?.

I don't know, I'm only pointing out that they did actually agree to Obama's offer and carried out a disposal of chemical weapons to a US warship several years ago.

Your the one claiming to know different so please tell me how you know different

Well, its simple really... the Syrians keep using chemical weapons... bit of a giveaway that they still have stockpiles, isn't it?

"
.

What evidence do you have to support your theory?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"So, what can we do about it?

Our duty is to intervene, and put boots on the ground to end the bloodshed in Syria, Yemen too.

Without any evidence that it was a Syrian attack?

Do you find it justifiable that we haven't done the same to Israel for their use of white phosphorus?

How do you know it was Assad with no independent investigation whatsoever?

You haven't answered my question about Israel.

Assad has previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons

Rebel fighters have also previously been confirmed to have used chemical weapons in Syria. Its on record at the UN.

Even more reason to go in

And attack who? Are you advocating we attack both the rebels and Assad forces now then????....because they have both used chemical weapons in Syria.

Disarm them both.

You are not serious..

And the Russians too yes? "

What sounds more crazy, allowing a brutal dictator who has been killing his own people for years, and a bunch of radical nutters to keep on killing each other, including by means of chemical weapons, or an international coalition putting an end to years of war and bloodshed. I know which I would rather see.