FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > why does labour seem to have a jewish problem.....
why does labour seem to have a jewish problem.....
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
i find it fascinating the way this issue is dealt with, or lack thereof....
I know that they have a lot of affinity for the palestine situation... but you can be anti-isreal in the policies their government apply, without being anti-jewish......
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This is something I wrote on another thread talking about the Zeig heil dog owner and his court appearance.
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I don't think his actions are funny or satirical but is it inciting hatred? I don't think it is to be honest.
He may be a plonker who's tried pushing the boundaries but is it really inciting people to hate Jews?.
I'll tell you what's inciting people to hate Jews, the Israeli government attitude to Arabs and expansionism.
Throw them in a court and see if you get a conviction.
See that's the problem with so called hate speech, it blurs the line of genuine criticism.
Back to my point of one particular so called group who speaks for all Jews, it's no coincidence that there using this case and many others to shut down criticism of Israeli actions, that's why it's only ever labour anti Semitism they complain about because frankly they have a habit of using this type of stuff to keep labour quiet because it's only the left who actually complain about Israeli policy.
I'm anti Zionist and I know lots of Jews who are anti Zionist in fact some of the most religious Jews I know are the most anti Zionist, it's not really a religious battle ground but a wealth battle ground on that point..
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Now to another point,Hating Jews is easy for the hard left because it is a wealth battleground, inequity is one of the lefts biggest issues policy wise!, Jewish people are just too dammed successful, if they could be a little bit more crap at life like Muslims the left could take them into they're fold of good solid issues that need the lefts backing to succeeded |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"i find it fascinating the way this issue is dealt with, or lack thereof....
I know that they have a lot of affinity for the palestine situation... but you can be anti-isreal in the policies their government apply, without being anti-jewish......
"
Fuck knows, some of it is just finding a stick to beat Corbyn with, some is him being a poor leader, some is people making daft mistakes (suggesting someone be reinstated before find out why they were suspended in the first place), some of it is genuine racism.
It shouldn't be happening, there is nothing inherently anti-Semitic about the party, but they have got to get their shit together over this issue. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"i find it fascinating the way this issue is dealt with, or lack thereof....
I know that they have a lot of affinity for the palestine situation... but you can be anti-isreal in the policies their government apply, without being anti-jewish......
"
True, but Zionists won't see it like that.
Also see David Thomas'(Tory MP for the unaware) tweets (and I quote) "It's a stroke of genius that we've been able to pull this off, perfect timing heading into the elections too." |
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"Why is Ken Livingston still a member of the Labour Party?"
Same can be said of Naz Shah who has made openly anti semitic comments in the past.
Ruth Smeeth, a Jewish Labour MP left a Labour party meeting in tears no so long ago after she was heckled by far left Momentum activists. |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Why is Ken Livingston still a member of the Labour Party?
Same can be said of Naz Shah who has made openly anti semitic comments in the past.
Ruth Smeeth, a Jewish Labour MP left a Labour party meeting in tears no so long ago after she was heckled by far left Momentum activists. "
naz shah actually genuinely apologised for her comments.... and she actually talked to various jewish groups after to get a better understanding...
ken livingstone on the other hand... never repents and still says it and it baffles me why it just plods on and on....
but everything is seen thru the prism of corbyn and momentum |
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Many people dont seem to understand that anti-semite, anti-jewish, anti-zionist, anti-israeli (government policy) are four different things. They tend to be conflated, admittedly there can be an overlap.
The real irony for me is that people who are pro Palestinian often get labelled as anti-semitic, when Palestinians are semites. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think the poster who made the point about Jewish people been generally successful had a point ?
A lot of people love to be jealous of successs !
Perhaps we should look at why they are ?
Here's a Scary Point !
Imagine if Hitler hadn't persecuted the Jews ?
Would the outcome of the 2 nd world war been different ? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
Imagine if Hitler hadn't persecuted the Jews ?
Would the outcome of the 2 nd world war been different ?"
No.
There was little sympathy in this country for the Jews.
Emigrees from central Europe were shunned by the UK.
The Daily Mail, among other others, ran hateful pieces about Jews.
The UK was caught up in anti-semitism, though not on the same scale as Germany clearly.
Let me give you one example - the nuclear physicists who fled the Nazis.
At the start of the war, Britain was closer to building the bomb than the US.
Some of the world's best nuclear physicists arrived as refugees in the UK.
Such was the xenophobia in the UK that Churchill refused to let them into the British programme and gave them peripheral roles making the tea for our own scientists.
Fed up, they went to the USA where the Americans had no such qualms. They energised the US programme, propelled the US ahead of the UK and the rest, as they say, is history.
The media here was aware of the persecution of Jews by the Nazis but generally under reported it.
It wasn't just the Germans who had a problem. |
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It's mostly a perception that has been created by a biased media and campaign groups. Sadly there will be racist people everywhere - you'll always find them but politics is full of scapegoating and misdirection tactics |
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"Why is Ken Livingston still a member of the Labour Party?
Same can be said of Naz Shah who has made openly anti semitic comments in the past.
Ruth Smeeth, a Jewish Labour MP left a Labour party meeting in tears no so long ago after she was heckled by far left Momentum activists.
naz shah actually genuinely apologised for her comments.... and she actually talked to various jewish groups after to get a better understanding...
ken livingstone on the other hand... never repents and still says it and it baffles me why it just plods on and on....
but everything is seen thru the prism of corbyn and momentum"
The latest one is a Co founder of Momentum Christine Shawcroft who defended a Labour councillor over holocaust denial. 39 Labour MP's have written to Corbyn asking for her to be sacked. |
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Isn't it funny how these stories surface just before national elections. One could almost believe that the Billionaire owned press and media in general were actively seeking to damage any meaningful opposition to the Tories that may lead to a more equitable society and economy. One may even think that it is the money of those at the top buying undue influence in order to prolong the transfer of wealth from those at the bottom and middle of the economy to those at the top. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Isn't it funny how these stories surface just before national elections. One could almost believe that the Billionaire owned press and media in general were actively seeking to damage any meaningful opposition to the Tories that may lead to a more equitable society and economy. One may even think that it is the money of those at the top buying undue influence in order to prolong the transfer of wealth from those at the bottom and middle of the economy to those at the top."
Nice to have an idea of who and what your voting for though. |
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"Nice to have an idea of who and what your voting for though. "
Yep...
But just to be clear, according to our government (and those leading the clamour against the Labour Party) being anti Israel is the same as being anti-semitic. Therefore both the UN security Council and the General Assembly of the United Nations are by definition anti-semitic organisation because they have passed multiple censure motions against Israel.
So as you say know who you are voting for, but also understand how your perceptions are being manipulated to 'gaslight' you into voting against your personal interests. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Nice to have an idea of who and what your voting for though.
Yep...
But just to be clear, according to our government (and those leading the clamour against the Labour Party) being anti Israel is the same as being anti-semitic. Therefore both the UN security Council and the General Assembly of the United Nations are by definition anti-semitic organisation because they have passed multiple censure motions against Israel.
So as you say know who you are voting for, but also understand how your perceptions are being manipulated to 'gaslight' you into voting against your personal interests."
Most political parties get bashed on here. If you believe everything you read we would all abstain. Often difficult to see the woods for the trees. |
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"Most political parties get bashed on here. If you believe everything you read we would all abstain. Often difficult to see the woods for the trees."
Most of the posters on here are probably political activists or former activists and represent nearly all political shades. We cover from barely concealed fascists on the far right to some quite left wing views (funnily enough we do not seem to have any communists although those on the extreme right do try to label myself and one or 2 others as such), and we cover from the most authoritarian of outlooks to some who I think may be secret anarchists. We are a diverse and voluble bunch that reflects what I would call the political class (not those in political office, but the 2,000,000 or so political activists in the UK), but we do not reflect the general population of the UK, They are more accurately reflected by those who populate the lounge, never visit our basement cubbyhole and complain if anything remotely political or controversial (bar outing those whose sexual conduct they do not approve of) gets raised in the lounge.
The fact is political propaganda is not really aimed at us, we are generally immune to it, it is aimed at those who populate the lounge, and the fact is that just like at every national election the media turn into a propaganda machine and continually attack anyone who threatens or may threaten their interests. Thus convincing the vast majority who vote Tory to vote against their self interest. |
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"Most political parties get bashed on here. If you believe everything you read we would all abstain. Often difficult to see the woods for the trees.
Most of the posters on here are probably political activists or former activists and represent nearly all political shades. We cover from barely concealed fascists on the far right to some quite left wing views (funnily enough we do not seem to have any communists although those on the extreme right do try to label myself and one or 2 others as such), and we cover from the most authoritarian of outlooks to some who I think may be secret anarchists. We are a diverse and voluble bunch that reflects what I would call the political class (not those in political office, but the 2,000,000 or so political activists in the UK), but we do not reflect the general population of the UK, They are more accurately reflected by those who populate the lounge, never visit our basement cubbyhole and complain if anything remotely political or controversial (bar outing those whose sexual conduct they do not approve of) gets raised in the lounge.
The fact is political propaganda is not really aimed at us, we are generally immune to it, it is aimed at those who populate the lounge, and the fact is that just like at every national election the media turn into a propaganda machine and continually attack anyone who threatens or may threaten their interests. Thus convincing the vast majority who vote Tory to vote against their self interest. "
I agreed with most of what you said until your last statement, I voted Tory for the selfish reason that it was what was best for me. I’m a selfish bastard and I do what’s good for me, I’d change my vote in the morning if it was better for me. |
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"I agreed with most of what you said until your last statement, I voted Tory for the selfish reason that it was what was best for me. I’m a selfish bastard and I do what’s good for me, I’d change my vote in the morning if it was better for me. "
Thanks, glad we agree about who we are and who most of the people in the UK (and world if we are being honest) are.
However although I totally understand that you vote Tory for selfish reasons (because you think your voting for your self interest), I think you are being gaslighted and not seeing the reality of what you are voting for (unless you are a multimillionaire with millions in disposable wealth). Even then I would suggest that if you have family, children and grandchildren then your self interest may not be so clearcut. But then I believe that the Conservative Party are tories and tories are thieves! In fact the word tory is derived from the Irish for robber. Maybe you need to reevaluate where your interests really lie. Are your headline gains under tories really greater than your hidden losses? Or is that net sum calculation not one you make? |
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"I agreed with most of what you said until your last statement, I voted Tory for the selfish reason that it was what was best for me. I’m a selfish bastard and I do what’s good for me, I’d change my vote in the morning if it was better for me.
Thanks, glad we agree about who we are and who most of the people in the UK (and world if we are being honest) are.
However although I totally understand that you vote Tory for selfish reasons (because you think your voting for your self interest), I think you are being gaslighted and not seeing the reality of what you are voting for (unless you are a multimillionaire with millions in disposable wealth). Even then I would suggest that if you have family, children and grandchildren then your self interest may not be so clearcut. But then I believe that the Conservative Party are tories and tories are thieves! In fact the word tory is derived from the Irish for robber. Maybe you need to reevaluate where your interests really lie. Are your headline gains under tories really greater than your hidden losses? Or is that net sum calculation not one you make?"
Unfortunately I’m not a multimillionaire, I wish I was. Despite what you may think I know what I’m voting for, you don’t know anything about me or my circumstances so shouldn’t judge. I’ve got no kids or grandkids so I’ve got no reason to re-evaluate where my interests lie. You’re entitled to your opinion of the Tories, we all look for different things from our politicians. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I agreed with most of what you said until your last statement, I voted Tory for the selfish reason that it was what was best for me. I’m a selfish bastard and I do what’s good for me, I’d change my vote in the morning if it was better for me.
Thanks, glad we agree about who we are and who most of the people in the UK (and world if we are being honest) are.
However although I totally understand that you vote Tory for selfish reasons (because you think your voting for your self interest), I think you are being gaslighted and not seeing the reality of what you are voting for (unless you are a multimillionaire with millions in disposable wealth). Even then I would suggest that if you have family, children and grandchildren then your self interest may not be so clearcut. But then I believe that the Conservative Party are tories and tories are thieves! In fact the word tory is derived from the Irish for robber. Maybe you need to reevaluate where your interests really lie. Are your headline gains under tories really greater than your hidden losses? Or is that net sum calculation not one you make?"
How easily did that turn from Labour bashing to Tory bashing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Most political parties get bashed on here. If you believe everything you read we would all abstain. Often difficult to see the woods for the trees.
Most of the posters on here are probably political activists or former activists and represent nearly all political shades. We cover from barely concealed fascists on the far right to some quite left wing views (funnily enough we do not seem to have any communists although those on the extreme right do try to label myself and one or 2 others as such), and we cover from the most authoritarian of outlooks to some who I think may be secret anarchists. We are a diverse and voluble bunch that reflects what I would call the political class (not those in political office, but the 2,000,000 or so political activists in the UK), but we do not reflect the general population of the UK, They are more accurately reflected by those who populate the lounge, never visit our basement cubbyhole and complain if anything remotely political or controversial (bar outing those whose sexual conduct they do not approve of) gets raised in the lounge.
The fact is political propaganda is not really aimed at us, we are generally immune to it, it is aimed at those who populate the lounge, and the fact is that just like at every national election the media turn into a propaganda machine and continually attack anyone who threatens or may threaten their interests. Thus convincing the vast majority who vote Tory to vote against their self interest. "
.I don't think it's even political anymore.
.
I told people that bailing out those banks would have unforeseen consequences of a dire nature.... Welcome to the machine  |
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"How easily did that turn from Labour bashing to Tory bashing. "
I changed my political allegiances from Tory to Labour in the early 80's (when I realised that Thatcher engineered a war and sent me and thousands of others to the Falklands to win an election). Now would you kindly show me where I have bashed the Labour party. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How easily did that turn from Labour bashing to Tory bashing.
I changed my political allegiances from Tory to Labour in the early 80's (when I realised that Thatcher engineered a war and sent me and thousands of others to the Falklands to win an election). Now would you kindly show me where I have bashed the Labour party."
Did i say that you were Labour bashing, I thought that was the original theme of this thread. Which has now flipped to tory bashing and incidentally nothing to do with the original post. |
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"Did i say that you were Labour bashing, I thought that was the original theme of this thread. Which has now flipped to tory bashing and incidentally nothing to do with the original post."
No you didn't mention me, but you did quote one of my posts (along with another forum posters reply). So I would suggest that my question was and is valid. Further as for your claim that my post has no relevance I suggest you either have not read the complete thread or are deliberately ignoring my previous posts. Unless it is your contention that this thread is a Labour bashing thread and therefore any post that does not do that should be ignored (which sounds just like the sort of thing the autocratic Maybot and her acolites would thoroughly approve of). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Did i say that you were Labour bashing, I thought that was the original theme of this thread. Which has now flipped to tory bashing and incidentally nothing to do with the original post.
No you didn't mention me, but you did quote one of my posts (along with another forum posters reply). So I would suggest that my question was and is valid. Further as for your claim that my post has no relevance I suggest you either have not read the complete thread or are deliberately ignoring my previous posts. Unless it is your contention that this thread is a Labour bashing thread and therefore any post that does not do that should be ignored (which sounds just like the sort of thing the autocratic Maybot and her acolites would thoroughly approve of)."
 . You just reminded me why I rarely come into this room. Happy fabbing x |
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"Most political parties get bashed on here. If you believe everything you read we would all abstain. Often difficult to see the woods for the trees.
Most of the posters on here are probably political activists or former activists and represent nearly all political shades. We cover from barely concealed fascists on the far right to some quite left wing views (funnily enough we do not seem to have any communists although those on the extreme right do try to label myself and one or 2 others as such), and we cover from the most authoritarian of outlooks to some who I think may be secret anarchists. We are a diverse and voluble bunch that reflects what I would call the political class (not those in political office, but the 2,000,000 or so political activists in the UK), but we do not reflect the general population of the UK, They are more accurately reflected by those who populate the lounge, never visit our basement cubbyhole and complain if anything remotely political or controversial (bar outing those whose sexual conduct they do not approve of) gets raised in the lounge.
The fact is political propaganda is not really aimed at us, we are generally immune to it, it is aimed at those who populate the lounge, and the fact is that just like at every national election the media turn into a propaganda machine and continually attack anyone who threatens or may threaten their interests. Thus convincing the vast majority who vote Tory to vote against their self interest. "
I'd add that we are all open to influence, even if we believe that we are totally resistant to it. The slow, drip-feeding of small things can incrementally displace things that we may hold dear. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Why is Ken Livingston still a member of the Labour Party?
Same can be said of Naz Shah who has made openly anti semitic comments in the past.
Ruth Smeeth, a Jewish Labour MP left a Labour party meeting in tears no so long ago after she was heckled by far left Momentum activists.
naz shah actually genuinely apologised for her comments.... and she actually talked to various jewish groups after to get a better understanding...
ken livingstone on the other hand... never repents and still says it and it baffles me why it just plods on and on....
but everything is seen thru the prism of corbyn and momentum
The latest one is a Co founder of Momentum Christine Shawcroft who defended a Labour councillor over holocaust denial. 39 Labour MP's have written to Corbyn asking for her to be sacked. "
Christine Shawcroft has now resigned her position of Labour's NEC.
She has been replaced by the "comedian" Eddie Izzard. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Imagine if Hitler hadn't persecuted the Jews ?
Would the outcome of the 2 nd world war been different ?
No.
There was little sympathy in this country for the Jews.
Emigrees from central Europe were shunned by the UK.
The Daily Mail, among other others, ran hateful pieces about Jews.
The UK was caught up in anti-semitism, though not on the same scale as Germany clearly.
Let me give you one example - the nuclear physicists who fled the Nazis.
At the start of the war, Britain was closer to building the bomb than the US.
Some of the world's best nuclear physicists arrived as refugees in the UK.
Such was the xenophobia in the UK that Churchill refused to let them into the British programme and gave them peripheral roles making the tea for our own scientists.
Fed up, they went to the USA where the Americans had no such qualms. They energised the US programme, propelled the US ahead of the UK and the rest, as they say, is history.
The media here was aware of the persecution of Jews by the Nazis but generally under reported it.
It wasn't just the Germans who had a problem."
I meant they put a lot of resources into persecuting the Jews that would have been freed up .
Also how many Jewish Regiments would they have Had ? And what bout the extra Scientists ect ?
scary thought ! |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"Most political parties get bashed on here. If you believe everything you read we would all abstain. Often difficult to see the woods for the trees.
Most of the posters on here are probably political activists or former activists and represent nearly all political shades. We cover from barely concealed fascists on the far right to some quite left wing views (funnily enough we do not seem to have any communists although those on the extreme right do try to label myself and one or 2 others as such), and we cover from the most authoritarian of outlooks to some who I think may be secret anarchists. We are a diverse and voluble bunch that reflects what I would call the political class (not those in political office, but the 2,000,000 or so political activists in the UK), but we do not reflect the general population of the UK, They are more accurately reflected by those who populate the lounge, never visit our basement cubbyhole and complain if anything remotely political or controversial (bar outing those whose sexual conduct they do not approve of) gets raised in the lounge.
The fact is political propaganda is not really aimed at us, we are generally immune to it, it is aimed at those who populate the lounge, and the fact is that just like at every national election the media turn into a propaganda machine and continually attack anyone who threatens or may threaten their interests. Thus convincing the vast majority who vote Tory to vote against their self interest. "
Secret Anarchists, eh?  |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"I agreed with most of what you said until your last statement, I voted Tory for the selfish reason that it was what was best for me. I’m a selfish bastard and I do what’s good for me, I’d change my vote in the morning if it was better for me.
Thanks, glad we agree about who we are and who most of the people in the UK (and world if we are being honest) are.
However although I totally understand that you vote Tory for selfish reasons (because you think your voting for your self interest), I think you are being gaslighted and not seeing the reality of what you are voting for (unless you are a multimillionaire with millions in disposable wealth). Even then I would suggest that if you have family, children and grandchildren then your self interest may not be so clearcut. But then I believe that the Conservative Party are tories and tories are thieves! In fact the word tory is derived from the Irish for robber. Maybe you need to reevaluate where your interests really lie. Are your headline gains under tories really greater than your hidden losses? Or is that net sum calculation not one you make?"
Or then again, maybe it's you that's being gaslighted. |
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"Or then again, maybe it's you that's being gaslighted. "
I have considered that, but knowing that power follows wealth and also knowing that the Tories have spent the last 40 years transferring wealth from the state to the top 1% and that during this time the annual earnings gap between the top 1% and that of the average has opened from X6 to X30+ while the earnings of the bottom 20% has nearly halved, I do not think so.
But you could be right and I could be one of the deluded ones. However if this is true I am in good company as the vast majority of academics and scientists seem to share my beliefs. But hey, in these days of alternative truth and fake news, who knows. |
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"Why is Ken Livingston still a member of the Labour Party?
Same can be said of Naz Shah who has made openly anti semitic comments in the past.
Ruth Smeeth, a Jewish Labour MP left a Labour party meeting in tears no so long ago after she was heckled by far left Momentum activists.
naz shah actually genuinely apologised for her comments.... and she actually talked to various jewish groups after to get a better understanding...
ken livingstone on the other hand... never repents and still says it and it baffles me why it just plods on and on....
but everything is seen thru the prism of corbyn and momentum
The latest one is a Co founder of Momentum Christine Shawcroft who defended a Labour councillor over holocaust denial. 39 Labour MP's have written to Corbyn asking for her to be sacked.
Christine Shawcroft has now resigned her position of Labour's NEC.
She has been replaced by the "comedian" Eddie Izzard."
Yep, seems Corbyn couldn't bring himself to sack her so she walked. Yet more weak leadership from Corbyn. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
Just an observation .....
If it had been UKIP or the Tories embroiled in anti-semitism, the vitriol, abuse and accusations of all Tories/UKIP being racist would have been ununbelievable from the very people on here who are making excuses to the point of defending Labour. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just an observation .....
If it had been UKIP or the Tories embroiled in anti-semitism, the vitriol, abuse and accusations of all Tories/UKIP being racist would have been ununbelievable from the very people on here who are making excuses to the point of defending Labour. "
Yup 100 % ! |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
Sir David Garrad, a multi-millionaire property developer and major Labour party donor, has quit the Labour party with a scathing attack on the party leadership.
The Sunday Times will also be uncomfortable reading for the Labour leadership today. It's alleged that 12 senior members of Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell's staff are members of "closed" social media groups that advocate anti-Semitism and violence. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The multi millionaire whos gonna get whacked with tax has quit!!!.
Well I'll be a monkeys uncle.
What yer gonna tell me next the communists don't like Jews! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i find it fascinating the way this issue is dealt with, or lack thereof....
I know that they have a lot of affinity for the palestine situation... but you can be anti-isreal in the policies their government apply, without being anti-jewish......
"
Seems recent uproar deems you can't.
I haven't done a lot of reading about this, to be fair, but although the principle of not denegrating a religion is sound, and very few would disagree, I hope, it seems wrong to use disrespect for that principle in a political way.
Not supporting Israel is political. Saying banking families rule the world is almost certainly true. Using someone's religion to try to make them a lesser person, is wrong. Nothing more, nothing less. Stick to that basic remit and the world would be a happier place. |
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It has been decreed by the Maybot that to be anti Israel is to be antisemitic. As a result we now have the spectacle of left wing Jewish holocaust survivors, their children and grandchildren being labelled as antisemitic self haters because they refuse to support Israel in its slow-motion enactment of its own Palestinian final solution. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Makes me laugh because no matter what Corbyn does or did one side or the other is going to acuse him of being anti sematic 
I’m not a fan of him but ffs it’s getting ridiculous!! |
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"Makes me laugh because no matter what Corbyn does or did one side or the other is going to acuse him of being anti sematic
I’m not a fan of him but ffs it’s getting ridiculous!! "
Yep.
But not a word of outcry when Gregory Lauder-Frost (the man who called Vanessa Felts a "fat Jewish slag, she's revolting, revolting! She lives with a negro!") is photographed next to a smiling Rees Mogg at a tory fundraising dinner, bit like JC is a communist stooge but BoJo taking a £166,000 donation to tory party funds to play tennis with the wife of a former Russian minister in a Putin government is fine.
But when our media is owned by 6 non dom billionaire who stand to loose millions if JC becomes PM what do you expect? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Corbyn has stood against racism all his life.Its laughable that the Tories think they can paint him in this light.
The Nasty party couldn't go any further right they are full on kippers these days.Who represent all sorts of racist xenophobes.Im sure they hope labeling corbyn racist is great deflection from their far right agenda and blatant racism within the Tory ranks... |
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"within the Tory ranks... "
There are less that quarter of a million of them.
But money buys power and they have the money backing them. The fact is the billionaire owner of Cartier was right when he said a time is coming soon when the only answer the masses will have is to kill off the billionaire classes and their political enablers unless those at the top change direction and learn to share rather than horde.
Seems that message did not get through to some of his fellows who think they will be safe on their tropical islands and in their political fortresses, |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"within the Tory ranks...
There are less that quarter of a million of them.
But money buys power and they have the money backing them. The fact is the billionaire owner of Cartier was right when he said a time is coming soon when the only answer the masses will have is to kill off the billionaire classes and their political enablers unless those at the top change direction and learn to share rather than horde.
Seems that message did not get through to some of his fellows who think they will be safe on their tropical islands and in their political fortresses,"
.
Pitchforks are coming I can smell it in the air!...  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Events in the last few days at the 'Gaza-Israel' border highlight everything that is bad about the area. I truly this kind that until the actions of Israel are sanctioned by other countries, there is not even a beginning of a solution to the rest of the world's major problems.
This is not the Israel Balfour had suggested. This is religious and ethnic cleansing and persecution. The irony doesn't even begin to moderate it. |
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"Events in the last few days at the 'Gaza-Israel' border highlight everything that is bad about the area. I truly this kind that until the actions of Israel are sanctioned by other countries, there is not even a beginning of a solution to the rest of the world's major problems.
This is not the Israel Balfour had suggested. This is religious and ethnic cleansing and persecution. The irony doesn't even begin to moderate it."
Agreed! |
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It's just being whipped up in the media and by the conservatives, as the brexit mess is the opposite of what they'd said they'd achieve and there are local UK elections that are around the corner. It's a pathetic excuse for a slur against Corbyn, as he's generally viewed as a decent man. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don't actually think it's as benign as that.
It's timed to coincide with Easter, Israel's action against Gaza on Friday, the probably known visit of Corbyn to the meeting and maybe more. It's not a reactive comment, it's proactive. |
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"It's just being whipped up in the media and by the conservatives, as the brexit mess is the opposite of what they'd said they'd achieve and there are local UK elections that are around the corner. It's a pathetic excuse for a slur against Corbyn, as he's generally viewed as a decent man. "
A decent man defined as what?
A man who calls Hamas and Hezbollah his "friends".
Hard to be friends with Israel and Jewish people when you call their worst enemies "friends".
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"It's just being whipped up in the media and by the conservatives, as the brexit mess is the opposite of what they'd said they'd achieve and there are local UK elections that are around the corner. It's a pathetic excuse for a slur against Corbyn, as he's generally viewed as a decent man. "
It's not the Conservatives driving this, it's Labour MPs. |
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"It's just being whipped up in the media and by the conservatives, as the brexit mess is the opposite of what they'd said they'd achieve and there are local UK elections that are around the corner. It's a pathetic excuse for a slur against Corbyn, as he's generally viewed as a decent man. "
Let's get this straight, it's in the media and the public eye because Corbyn's leadership on tackling anti semitism within the Labour party has been piss poor. Attemting to blame the media or the tories is just a cheap cop out. He could have thrown the likes of Ken Livingstone and Naz Shah out of Labour ages ago....but he hasn't. He could have sacked Christine Shawcroft for defending a Holocaust denying Labour councillor...but he didn't (and she resigned in the end anyway). Corbyn's lack of action speaks volumes (talk is cheap, actions carry more weight) and gives the impression he condones these anti semitic views through his own lack of action to tackle it. It used to be the BNP that had a reputation for harbouring holocaust deniers but Labour are quickly claiming that title under Corbyn's leadership. It's even being reported today on sky news and the BBC that Corbyn attended a far left group meeting last night called 'Jewdas', which openly criticises mainstream Jewish organisations. Corbyn has brought much of this attention on to himself through his own actions and thus only has himself to blame for his piss poor leadership on the issue.
As for him being generally viewed as a decent man, that is only amongst his cult followers in Momentum. The reality is he has consistently supported Britain's enemy's and terrorist groups like the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah. He refuses to sing the national anthem. He supported the brutal dictator in Venezuela who has slaughtered his own people. And again his lack of action on anti semitism within the Labour party speaks volumes. Corbyn is a vile individual and a danger to this country should he ever get his hands on any real power. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's just being whipped up in the media and by the conservatives, as the brexit mess is the opposite of what they'd said they'd achieve and there are local UK elections that are around the corner. It's a pathetic excuse for a slur against Corbyn, as he's generally viewed as a decent man.
Let's get this straight, it's in the media and the public eye because Corbyn's leadership on tackling anti semitism within the Labour party has been piss poor. Attemting to blame the media or the tories is just a cheap cop out. He could have thrown the likes of Ken Livingstone and Naz Shah out of Labour ages ago....but he hasn't. He could have sacked Christine Shawcroft for defending a Holocaust denying Labour councillor...but he didn't (and she resigned in the end anyway). Corbyn's lack of action speaks volumes (talk is cheap, actions carry more weight) and gives the impression he condones these anti semitic views through his own lack of action to tackle it. It used to be the BNP that had a reputation for harbouring holocaust deniers but Labour are quickly claiming that title under Corbyn's leadership. It's even being reported today on sky news and the BBC that Corbyn attended a far left group meeting last night called 'Jewdas', which openly criticises mainstream Jewish organisations. Corbyn has brought much of this attention on to himself through his own actions and thus only has himself to blame for his piss poor leadership on the issue.
As for him being generally viewed as a decent man, that is only amongst his cult followers in Momentum. The reality is he has consistently supported Britain's enemy's and terrorist groups like the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah. He refuses to sing the national anthem. He supported the brutal dictator in Venezuela who has slaughtered his own people. And again his lack of action on anti semitism within the Labour party speaks volumes. Corbyn is a vile individual and a danger to this country should he ever get his hands on any real power. "
While Maggie Thatcher drank tea with a dictator when Corbyn protested for the human rights from that dictator. I guess you need money to twist that round.
Although I did learn that Maggie Thatcher took notes from the dictator and applied it to British politics which is the core of the Tory party. |
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& we agree for once Labour could have resolved this so easily, but it does seem to be a systemic problem now.
I resigned from the Labour Party because I disagree with the cult of the personality, JC has never done anything for this country, he is the most ineffective opposition leader ever - how hard is it to make May look like an idiot, ffs. |
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"It's just being whipped up in the media and by the conservatives, as the brexit mess is the opposite of what they'd said they'd achieve and there are local UK elections that are around the corner. It's a pathetic excuse for a slur against Corbyn, as he's generally viewed as a decent man.
Let's get this straight, it's in the media and the public eye because Corbyn's leadership on tackling anti semitism within the Labour party has been piss poor. Attemting to blame the media or the tories is just a cheap cop out. He could have thrown the likes of Ken Livingstone and Naz Shah out of Labour ages ago....but he hasn't. He could have sacked Christine Shawcroft for defending a Holocaust denying Labour councillor...but he didn't (and she resigned in the end anyway). Corbyn's lack of action speaks volumes (talk is cheap, actions carry more weight) and gives the impression he condones these anti semitic views through his own lack of action to tackle it. It used to be the BNP that had a reputation for harbouring holocaust deniers but Labour are quickly claiming that title under Corbyn's leadership. It's even being reported today on sky news and the BBC that Corbyn attended a far left group meeting last night called 'Jewdas', which openly criticises mainstream Jewish organisations. Corbyn has brought much of this attention on to himself through his own actions and thus only has himself to blame for his piss poor leadership on the issue.
As for him being generally viewed as a decent man, that is only amongst his cult followers in Momentum. The reality is he has consistently supported Britain's enemy's and terrorist groups like the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah. He refuses to sing the national anthem. He supported the brutal dictator in Venezuela who has slaughtered his own people. And again his lack of action on anti semitism within the Labour party speaks volumes. Corbyn is a vile individual and a danger to this country should he ever get his hands on any real power. "
Agreement ref is to this post!  |
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"It's just being whipped up in the media and by the conservatives, as the brexit mess is the opposite of what they'd said they'd achieve and there are local UK elections that are around the corner. It's a pathetic excuse for a slur against Corbyn, as he's generally viewed as a decent man.
Let's get this straight, it's in the media and the public eye because Corbyn's leadership on tackling anti semitism within the Labour party has been piss poor. Attemting to blame the media or the tories is just a cheap cop out. He could have thrown the likes of Ken Livingstone and Naz Shah out of Labour ages ago....but he hasn't. He could have sacked Christine Shawcroft for defending a Holocaust denying Labour councillor...but he didn't (and she resigned in the end anyway). Corbyn's lack of action speaks volumes (talk is cheap, actions carry more weight) and gives the impression he condones these anti semitic views through his own lack of action to tackle it. It used to be the BNP that had a reputation for harbouring holocaust deniers but Labour are quickly claiming that title under Corbyn's leadership. It's even being reported today on sky news and the BBC that Corbyn attended a far left group meeting last night called 'Jewdas', which openly criticises mainstream Jewish organisations. Corbyn has brought much of this attention on to himself through his own actions and thus only has himself to blame for his piss poor leadership on the issue.
As for him being generally viewed as a decent man, that is only amongst his cult followers in Momentum. The reality is he has consistently supported Britain's enemy's and terrorist groups like the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah. He refuses to sing the national anthem. He supported the brutal dictator in Venezuela who has slaughtered his own people. And again his lack of action on anti semitism within the Labour party speaks volumes. Corbyn is a vile individual and a danger to this country should he ever get his hands on any real power. "
I was going to post something on this but you've pretty much said it all.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Distraction technique- something bad about the opposition always 'comes out' when something bad about the governing party is happening.
..... And it works every, single time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's just being whipped up in the media and by the conservatives, as the brexit mess is the opposite of what they'd said they'd achieve and there are local UK elections that are around the corner. It's a pathetic excuse for a slur against Corbyn, as he's generally viewed as a decent man.
Let's get this straight, it's in the media and the public eye because Corbyn's leadership on tackling anti semitism within the Labour party has been piss poor. Attemting to blame the media or the tories is just a cheap cop out. He could have thrown the likes of Ken Livingstone and Naz Shah out of Labour ages ago....but he hasn't. He could have sacked Christine Shawcroft for defending a Holocaust denying Labour councillor...but he didn't (and she resigned in the end anyway). Corbyn's lack of action speaks volumes (talk is cheap, actions carry more weight) and gives the impression he condones these anti semitic views through his own lack of action to tackle it. It used to be the BNP that had a reputation for harbouring holocaust deniers but Labour are quickly claiming that title under Corbyn's leadership. It's even being reported today on sky news and the BBC that Corbyn attended a far left group meeting last night called 'Jewdas', which openly criticises mainstream Jewish organisations. Corbyn has brought much of this attention on to himself through his own actions and thus only has himself to blame for his piss poor leadership on the issue.
As for him being generally viewed as a decent man, that is only amongst his cult followers in Momentum. The reality is he has consistently supported Britain's enemy's and terrorist groups like the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah. He refuses to sing the national anthem. He supported the brutal dictator in Venezuela who has slaughtered his own people. And again his lack of action on anti semitism within the Labour party speaks volumes. Corbyn is a vile individual and a danger to this country should he ever get his hands on any real power.
While Maggie Thatcher drank tea with a dictator when Corbyn protested for the human rights from that dictator. I guess you need money to twist that round.
Although I did learn that Maggie Thatcher took notes from the dictator and applied it to British politics which is the core of the Tory party."
oh a Tory could get caught doing cocaine wearing a Nazi uniform balls deep in young man and the Tory voters would say something about corbyn something something anti-Semitic something something never will be PM. |
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"Media propaganda and the public's lack of intelligence. There is no problem to speak of."
There are patently problems, your statement is one - avoiding dealing with problems is down to JC, he is not a leader, he does not provide leadership and as a result the members can get away with whatever they want. He is niaive if we are being kind or malicious if we are not, but a problem exists. |
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"There are patently problems, your statement is one - avoiding dealing with problems is down to JC, he is not a leader, he does not provide leadership and as a result the members can get away with whatever they want. He is niaive if we are being kind or malicious if we are not, but a problem exists. "
You are right, there is a problem. Being anti Israel is now seen as being anti Jew if your politics are not right wing, so we have the situation where JC, the Labour party and left wing Jews are labeled as anti semitic and self haters, while Rees Mogg can be photographed helping raise money for a neo nazi Gregory Lauder-Frost who is on record as saying Vanessa Felts is "fat Jewish slag, she's revolting, revolting! She lives with a negro!". |
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It shouldn’t be about they are worse than us, so we are ok. It should be about Labour should not be racist, anti semitic, misogynistic or any other negative.
If JC wants to lead he needs to start leading from the front and denying any airtime to those who none of us want in the Labour Party. He needs to grow a pair and expel those that breach the rules rather than ignoring them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It shouldn’t be about they are worse than us, so we are ok. It should be about Labour should not be racist, anti semitic, misogynistic or any other negative.
If JC wants to lead he needs to start leading from the front and denying any airtime to those who none of us want in the Labour Party. He needs to grow a pair and expel those that breach the rules rather than ignoring them."
You missed the point. Conservative and ukip leader are not tackling them either.
I agree, the lines are blurring between anti semitism and anti zionist. Saying what Israel is doing to Palestine is atrocious is not racism. In that statement there is no talk about race or superiority. If I say what the Nazis did to the Jew was atrocious doesn't make me racist or anti Germans. I am pointing out that the state did something atrocious not the race. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It shouldn’t be about they are worse than us, so we are ok. It should be about Labour should not be racist, anti semitic, misogynistic or any other negative.
If JC wants to lead he needs to start leading from the front and denying any airtime to those who none of us want in the Labour Party. He needs to grow a pair and expel those that breach the rules rather than ignoring them.
You missed the point. Conservative and ukip leader are not tackling them either.
I agree, the lines are blurring between anti semitism and anti zionist. Saying what Israel is doing to Palestine is atrocious is not racism. In that statement there is no talk about race or superiority. If I say what the Nazis did to the Jew was atrocious doesn't make me racist or anti Germans. I am pointing out that the state did something atrocious not the race."
This exactly. I know a Jewish guy who's appalled by the way the isreali government are behaving with palistine |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"It shouldn’t be about they are worse than us, so we are ok. It should be about Labour should not be racist, anti semitic, misogynistic or any other negative.
If JC wants to lead he needs to start leading from the front and denying any airtime to those who none of us want in the Labour Party. He needs to grow a pair and expel those that breach the rules rather than ignoring them.
You missed the point. Conservative and ukip leader are not tackling them either.
I agree, the lines are blurring between anti semitism and anti zionist. Saying what Israel is doing to Palestine is atrocious is not racism. In that statement there is no talk about race or superiority. If I say what the Nazis did to the Jew was atrocious doesn't make me racist or anti Germans. I am pointing out that the state did something atrocious not the race."
The point is, there have been documented reports of far left groups making negative personal statements and threats against Jewish people and MP's that have not been dealt with by JC. Whether they have issue with Israeli action in Palestine is a different matter that doesn't require negative slurs. The fact is, people have been targeted. MP's have reported threats made against them and and their families and nothing has been done.
I don't mean to pick bones but - the Nazis weren't a race, they tried to create one but failed. Nazism isn't a race, it is a doctrine. Talk down about it all you like, the Germans won't mind one bit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It shouldn’t be about they are worse than us, so we are ok. It should be about Labour should not be racist, anti semitic, misogynistic or any other negative.
If JC wants to lead he needs to start leading from the front and denying any airtime to those who none of us want in the Labour Party. He needs to grow a pair and expel those that breach the rules rather than ignoring them.
You missed the point. Conservative and ukip leader are not tackling them either.
I agree, the lines are blurring between anti semitism and anti zionist. Saying what Israel is doing to Palestine is atrocious is not racism. In that statement there is no talk about race or superiority. If I say what the Nazis did to the Jew was atrocious doesn't make me racist or anti Germans. I am pointing out that the state did something atrocious not the race.
The point is, there have been documented reports of far left groups making negative personal statements and threats against Jewish people and MP's that have not been dealt with by JC. Whether they have issue with Israeli action in Palestine is a different matter that doesn't require negative slurs. The fact is, people have been targeted. MP's have reported threats made against them and and their families and nothing has been done.
I don't mean to pick bones but - the Nazis weren't a race, they tried to create one but failed. Nazism isn't a race, it is a doctrine. Talk down about it all you like, the Germans won't mind one bit. "
Which points out why anti-zionist and anti-semitism is different.
And again I'm not defending the left or JC. I'm saying racism is blind to your political ideology. |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"It shouldn’t be about they are worse than us, so we are ok. It should be about Labour should not be racist, anti semitic, misogynistic or any other negative.
If JC wants to lead he needs to start leading from the front and denying any airtime to those who none of us want in the Labour Party. He needs to grow a pair and expel those that breach the rules rather than ignoring them.
You missed the point. Conservative and ukip leader are not tackling them either.
I agree, the lines are blurring between anti semitism and anti zionist. Saying what Israel is doing to Palestine is atrocious is not racism. In that statement there is no talk about race or superiority. If I say what the Nazis did to the Jew was atrocious doesn't make me racist or anti Germans. I am pointing out that the state did something atrocious not the race.
The point is, there have been documented reports of far left groups making negative personal statements and threats against Jewish people and MP's that have not been dealt with by JC. Whether they have issue with Israeli action in Palestine is a different matter that doesn't require negative slurs. The fact is, people have been targeted. MP's have reported threats made against them and and their families and nothing has been done.
I don't mean to pick bones but - the Nazis weren't a race, they tried to create one but failed. Nazism isn't a race, it is a doctrine. Talk down about it all you like, the Germans won't mind one bit.
Which points out why anti-zionist and anti-semitism is different.
And again I'm not defending the left or JC. I'm saying racism is blind to your political ideology."
In your previous you said the lines were blurred between anti-zionist and anti-Semetic language. It couldn't further from it. Racism is blind, but the focus of this and this debate over that last year or so has seated itself in the far left camp. |
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"It shouldn’t be about they are worse than us, so we are ok. It should be about Labour should not be racist, anti semitic, misogynistic or any other negative.
If JC wants to lead he needs to start leading from the front and denying any airtime to those who none of us want in the Labour Party. He needs to grow a pair and expel those that breach the rules rather than ignoring them.
You missed the point. Conservative and ukip leader are not tackling them either.
I agree, the lines are blurring between anti semitism and anti zionist. Saying what Israel is doing to Palestine is atrocious is not racism. In that statement there is no talk about race or superiority. If I say what the Nazis did to the Jew was atrocious doesn't make me racist or anti Germans. I am pointing out that the state did something atrocious not the race."
Not sure I’m missing the point. If JC is being pilloried for not standing up to anti semites, rascists and misogynists then I don’t think the defence is the others are as bad! He needs to put his own house in order, he is unelectable unless he does. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It shouldn’t be about they are worse than us, so we are ok. It should be about Labour should not be racist, anti semitic, misogynistic or any other negative.
If JC wants to lead he needs to start leading from the front and denying any airtime to those who none of us want in the Labour Party. He needs to grow a pair and expel those that breach the rules rather than ignoring them.
You missed the point. Conservative and ukip leader are not tackling them either.
I agree, the lines are blurring between anti semitism and anti zionist. Saying what Israel is doing to Palestine is atrocious is not racism. In that statement there is no talk about race or superiority. If I say what the Nazis did to the Jew was atrocious doesn't make me racist or anti Germans. I am pointing out that the state did something atrocious not the race.
Not sure I’m missing the point. If JC is being pilloried for not standing up to anti semites, rascists and misogynists then I don’t think the defence is the others are as bad! He needs to put his own house in order, he is unelectable unless he does."
From an investigation into anti-Semitism
The report concluded that "...there exists no reliable, empirical evidence to support the notion that there is a higher prevalence of antisemitic attitudes within the Labour Party than any other political party."
It goes on to say...
"It found that, although the overt threat that the far right posed to Jews was no longer as great as it once was, nevertheless "Holocaust denial and Jewish conspiracy theories remain core elements of far-right ideology", going on to say that the British National Party (BNP) continues to stir up trouble and is damaging to societal cohesion."
Like some are saying, it's blind to political ideology and I never seen May sack anyone got their anti semetic views. |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"It shouldn’t be about they are worse than us, so we are ok. It should be about Labour should not be racist, anti semitic, misogynistic or any other negative.
If JC wants to lead he needs to start leading from the front and denying any airtime to those who none of us want in the Labour Party. He needs to grow a pair and expel those that breach the rules rather than ignoring them.
You missed the point. Conservative and ukip leader are not tackling them either.
I agree, the lines are blurring between anti semitism and anti zionist. Saying what Israel is doing to Palestine is atrocious is not racism. In that statement there is no talk about race or superiority. If I say what the Nazis did to the Jew was atrocious doesn't make me racist or anti Germans. I am pointing out that the state did something atrocious not the race.
Not sure I’m missing the point. If JC is being pilloried for not standing up to anti semites, rascists and misogynists then I don’t think the defence is the others are as bad! He needs to put his own house in order, he is unelectable unless he does.
From an investigation into anti-Semitism
The report concluded that "...there exists no reliable, empirical evidence to support the notion that there is a higher prevalence of antisemitic attitudes within the Labour Party than any other political party."
It goes on to say...
"It found that, although the overt threat that the far right posed to Jews was no longer as great as it once was, nevertheless "Holocaust denial and Jewish conspiracy theories remain core elements of far-right ideology", going on to say that the British National Party (BNP) continues to stir up trouble and is damaging to societal cohesion."
Like some are saying, it's blind to political ideology and I never seen May sack anyone got their anti semetic views."
This isn't a UKIP debate, a Tory, Lib, Green or SNP debate, it's a Labour one. Did you think the Chakrabarti report was going to single out names and pass judgement at the party? I find it sad you defending it. The Times had to expose 4 Momentum pages, with I think 400,000 members across all, including 12 Labour MP's filled with hate speech and threats to life. To say party members couldn't know about it is shameful. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Now you’re missing the point. It is patently obvious that Labour (especially Momentum) has a problem. Pretending otherwise is akin to burying your head in the sand."
I'm not pretending they don't have a problem. I just disagree at creating a scapegoat out of JC. Since he's the only politician I know who defended the human rights of my family being tortured while the Tories had tea and cakes with the dictator who lead it.
Did you protest against the Tories making friends with dictators?
I am opening up the debate because focussing on one little event is tunnel vision. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Now you’re missing the point. It is patently obvious that Labour (especially Momentum) has a problem. Pretending otherwise is akin to burying your head in the sand.
I'm not pretending they don't have a problem. I just disagree at creating a scapegoat out of JC. Since he's the only politician I know who defended the human rights of my family being tortured while the Tories had tea and cakes with the dictator who lead it.
Did you protest against the Tories making friends with dictators?
I am opening up the debate because focussing on one little event is tunnel vision."
Start another thread then. The sight of Labour MPs on their feet in the Commons, applauding Jewish Labour MPs, still says to me that Labour has a problem. If not addressed, it will come back to haunt them at the next GE. |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"Now you’re missing the point. It is patently obvious that Labour (especially Momentum) has a problem. Pretending otherwise is akin to burying your head in the sand.
I'm not pretending they don't have a problem. I just disagree at creating a scapegoat out of JC. Since he's the only politician I know who defended the human rights of my family being tortured while the Tories had tea and cakes with the dictator who lead it.
Did you protest against the Tories making friends with dictators?
I am opening up the debate because focussing on one little event is tunnel vision.
Start another thread then. The sight of Labour MPs on their feet in the Commons, applauding Jewish Labour MPs, still says to me that Labour has a problem. If not addressed, it will come back to haunt them at the next GE."
They have already turned the conversation to the problem of housing. The week previous they turned the conversation back to Grenfell and fire regulation and something else which I forget (might have been the EU). There will always be a more important issue or one that will capture the public's focus.
I find their foreign policy with Syria startling - no action as there has to be an end game. The end game being evidence and the Hague. If the 50 gas attacks in the last 5yrs hasn't provided it, waiting another 5yrs to prosecute only means further suffering and justification for (JC's) inaction. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Now you’re missing the point. It is patently obvious that Labour (especially Momentum) has a problem. Pretending otherwise is akin to burying your head in the sand.
I'm not pretending they don't have a problem. I just disagree at creating a scapegoat out of JC. Since he's the only politician I know who defended the human rights of my family being tortured while the Tories had tea and cakes with the dictator who lead it.
Did you protest against the Tories making friends with dictators?
I am opening up the debate because focussing on one little event is tunnel vision."
It's a valid point that JC has been on the right side of history just about everytime .He stood against apartheid while their Tories called Mandela a terrorist he stood against dictatorships always.The right in the forum will ignore this and it's very telling that they do...know thy enemies |
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I find it strange how BBC funded by the public can twist any discussing on Israel into antisemitism
Hide and suffocate Israel’s war crimes by soiling the memory of real innocent 6 million Jews who suffered
BBC is also afraid to mention how Israel abuses the actual Semitic Jews, Desi crates Christian Churches as well as abuse Palestinians
BBC is afraid to investigate how Israel’s London Embassy is funding all our political parties including student groups at universities giving them free trips to Israel and only show tourist sites
With no visits to areas where people are herding like cattle and abused
Is this so called free world? We all pay for the BBC
Israel owns all our politicians and our media yet we point fingers to Russia while Israel is making us into another state of Israel like USA
Sad but True |
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Media trying hard to destroy JC as JC speak with moral backbone and will not bow to powerful lobbies including Israel
Israel seems to act like Trojan Horses in all our great British Instutes
Surely no one should ever soil the pillars of our Great Demcracy
British Public are Not Stupid Our Politicians May Be |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Now you’re missing the point. It is patently obvious that Labour (especially Momentum) has a problem. Pretending otherwise is akin to burying your head in the sand.
I'm not pretending they don't have a problem. I just disagree at creating a scapegoat out of JC. Since he's the only politician I know who defended the human rights of my family being tortured while the Tories had tea and cakes with the dictator who lead it.
Did you protest against the Tories making friends with dictators?
I am opening up the debate because focussing on one little event is tunnel vision.
It's a valid point that JC has been on the right side of history just about everytime .He stood against apartheid while their Tories called Mandela a terrorist he stood against dictatorships always.The right in the forum will ignore this and it's very telling that they do...know thy enemies "
And for 40 years he campaigned against the EU..... |
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"Now you’re missing the point. It is patently obvious that Labour (especially Momentum) has a problem. Pretending otherwise is akin to burying your head in the sand.
I'm not pretending they don't have a problem. I just disagree at creating a scapegoat out of JC. Since he's the only politician I know who defended the human rights of my family being tortured while the Tories had tea and cakes with the dictator who lead it.
Did you protest against the Tories making friends with dictators?
I am opening up the debate because focussing on one little event is tunnel vision.
It's a valid point that JC has been on the right side of history just about everytime .He stood against apartheid while their Tories called Mandela a terrorist he stood against dictatorships always.The right in the forum will ignore this and it's very telling that they do...know thy enemies
And for 40 years he campaigned against the EU....."
Corbyn has also supported dictators so when Bob says he hasn't he's telling lies. Corbyn was very vocal about his support for the brutal dictator in Venezuela. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Now you’re missing the point. It is patently obvious that Labour (especially Momentum) has a problem. Pretending otherwise is akin to burying your head in the sand.
I'm not pretending they don't have a problem. I just disagree at creating a scapegoat out of JC. Since he's the only politician I know who defended the human rights of my family being tortured while the Tories had tea and cakes with the dictator who lead it.
Did you protest against the Tories making friends with dictators?
I am opening up the debate because focussing on one little event is tunnel vision.
It's a valid point that JC has been on the right side of history just about everytime .He stood against apartheid while their Tories called Mandela a terrorist he stood against dictatorships always.The right in the forum will ignore this and it's very telling that they do...know thy enemies
And for 40 years he campaigned against the EU.....
Corbyn has also supported dictators so when Bob says he hasn't he's telling lies. Corbyn was very vocal about his support for the brutal dictator in Venezuela. "
.
Which brutal dictator would that be? |
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"Now you’re missing the point. It is patently obvious that Labour (especially Momentum) has a problem. Pretending otherwise is akin to burying your head in the sand.
I'm not pretending they don't have a problem. I just disagree at creating a scapegoat out of JC. Since he's the only politician I know who defended the human rights of my family being tortured while the Tories had tea and cakes with the dictator who lead it.
Did you protest against the Tories making friends with dictators?
I am opening up the debate because focussing on one little event is tunnel vision.
It's a valid point that JC has been on the right side of history just about everytime .He stood against apartheid while their Tories called Mandela a terrorist he stood against dictatorships always.The right in the forum will ignore this and it's very telling that they do...know thy enemies
And for 40 years he campaigned against the EU.....
Corbyn has also supported dictators so when Bob says he hasn't he's telling lies. Corbyn was very vocal about his support for the brutal dictator in Venezuela. .
Which brutal dictator would that be?"
Nicolas Maduro |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Now you’re missing the point. It is patently obvious that Labour (especially Momentum) has a problem. Pretending otherwise is akin to burying your head in the sand.
I'm not pretending they don't have a problem. I just disagree at creating a scapegoat out of JC. Since he's the only politician I know who defended the human rights of my family being tortured while the Tories had tea and cakes with the dictator who lead it.
Did you protest against the Tories making friends with dictators?
I am opening up the debate because focussing on one little event is tunnel vision.
It's a valid point that JC has been on the right side of history just about everytime .He stood against apartheid while their Tories called Mandela a terrorist he stood against dictatorships always.The right in the forum will ignore this and it's very telling that they do...know thy enemies
And for 40 years he campaigned against the EU.....
Corbyn has also supported dictators so when Bob says he hasn't he's telling lies. Corbyn was very vocal about his support for the brutal dictator in Venezuela. .
Which brutal dictator would that be?
Nicolas Maduro"
Ah Venezuela the other part the media twists. Can't believe the right wing assasinated foreign journalists and no media coverage.
Don't get me wrong there is poverty but most of South America has it. But when outside forces try to influence the elections like failed military coupes supported by the USA in Venezuela to remove Chavez then it's fishy.
Same with Cuba. It wasn't poor because of the system. People put sanctions on them and forced them into that situation.
So why is Madura a dictator? Did he take the leadership by force? Military Coup? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I am genuinely asking. Not debating it Centuar.
I just naturally defend a nation when the US get involved. They financed and supported Pinochet in Chile to get rid of socialism and keep the money flowing back into the USA. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am genuinely asking. Not debating it Centuar.
I just naturally defend a nation when the US get involved. They financed and supported Pinochet in Chile to get rid of socialism and keep the money flowing back into the USA. "
.
Pity you weren't here for the bombing Syria debate  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am genuinely asking. Not debating it Centuar.
I just naturally defend a nation when the US get involved. They financed and supported Pinochet in Chile to get rid of socialism and keep the money flowing back into the USA. .
Pity you weren't here for the bombing Syria debate "
You mean the US/UK/FRA is fighting with ISIS? I wonder if Assad has anything they want or have an ideology they don't like.
So far some reports saying the video was real, but they panicked. Since the girl and the boy in the video looked happy in their following videos and not affected by the attack. So there are already questions raised. Waiting for the report. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am genuinely asking. Not debating it Centuar.
I just naturally defend a nation when the US get involved. They financed and supported Pinochet in Chile to get rid of socialism and keep the money flowing back into the USA. .
Pity you weren't here for the bombing Syria debate
You mean the US/UK/FRA is fighting with ISIS? I wonder if Assad has anything they want or have an ideology they don't like.
So far some reports saying the video was real, but they panicked. Since the girl and the boy in the video looked happy in their following videos and not affected by the attack. So there are already questions raised. Waiting for the report."
.
Staggeringly enough... the vast majority of the remainers(neo liberals) are in favour of bombing more people, i know,I was shocked myself |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am genuinely asking. Not debating it Centuar.
I just naturally defend a nation when the US get involved. They financed and supported Pinochet in Chile to get rid of socialism and keep the money flowing back into the USA. .
Pity you weren't here for the bombing Syria debate
You mean the US/UK/FRA is fighting with ISIS? I wonder if Assad has anything they want or have an ideology they don't like.
So far some reports saying the video was real, but they panicked. Since the girl and the boy in the video looked happy in their following videos and not affected by the attack. So there are already questions raised. Waiting for the report..
Staggeringly enough... the vast majority of the remainers(neo liberals) are in favour of bombing more people, i know,I was shocked myself "
It shows how complex people are. Simple labels don't work. The problem with liberal Vs left in my perspective. You can be liberal meaning all people should have an opportunity but I like the capitalist economy. The left are thinking more of how nothing works and need change and creating safety nets for those who fall off and rights.
So I think it is a time of protest and change but I see that most parties are wolves in sheep clothing. Including labour. But JC is an MP I respect. Don't get me wrong. But I don't think he can get the job done because there are too many rebels in the Labour party. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am genuinely asking. Not debating it Centuar.
I just naturally defend a nation when the US get involved. They financed and supported Pinochet in Chile to get rid of socialism and keep the money flowing back into the USA. .
Pity you weren't here for the bombing Syria debate
You mean the US/UK/FRA is fighting with ISIS? I wonder if Assad has anything they want or have an ideology they don't like.
So far some reports saying the video was real, but they panicked. Since the girl and the boy in the video looked happy in their following videos and not affected by the attack. So there are already questions raised. Waiting for the report..
Staggeringly enough... the vast majority of the remainers(neo liberals) are in favour of bombing more people, i know,I was shocked myself
It shows how complex people are. Simple labels don't work. The problem with liberal Vs left in my perspective. You can be liberal meaning all people should have an opportunity but I like the capitalist economy. The left are thinking more of how nothing works and need change and creating safety nets for those who fall off and rights.
So I think it is a time of protest and change but I see that most parties are wolves in sheep clothing. Including labour. But JC is an MP I respect. Don't get me wrong. But I don't think he can get the job done because there are too many rebels in the Labour party."
.
I genuinely worry about the world when right wingers are more anti war than centrists. |
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The main reason some people think there's a problem is that the sources of the information to them are largely via outlets that have a hidden agenda - they don't want Labour in power. The same reason that Corbyn had so much very negative publicity from the moment he took power, through to coverage at the last election. If their agenda didn't exist, most people wouldn't perceive any major issue. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am genuinely asking. Not debating it Centuar.
I just naturally defend a nation when the US get involved. They financed and supported Pinochet in Chile to get rid of socialism and keep the money flowing back into the USA. .
Pity you weren't here for the bombing Syria debate
You mean the US/UK/FRA is fighting with ISIS? I wonder if Assad has anything they want or have an ideology they don't like.
So far some reports saying the video was real, but they panicked. Since the girl and the boy in the video looked happy in their following videos and not affected by the attack. So there are already questions raised. Waiting for the report..
Staggeringly enough... the vast majority of the remainers(neo liberals) are in favour of bombing more people, i know,I was shocked myself
It shows how complex people are. Simple labels don't work. The problem with liberal Vs left in my perspective. You can be liberal meaning all people should have an opportunity but I like the capitalist economy. The left are thinking more of how nothing works and need change and creating safety nets for those who fall off and rights.
So I think it is a time of protest and change but I see that most parties are wolves in sheep clothing. Including labour. But JC is an MP I respect. Don't get me wrong. But I don't think he can get the job done because there are too many rebels in the Labour party..
I genuinely worry about the world when right wingers are more anti war than centrists."
Don't worry Dave..The neo cons and your alt right chums will save you from the scary liberals and the Anglo Saxon apocalypse they are planning ... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am genuinely asking. Not debating it Centuar.
I just naturally defend a nation when the US get involved. They financed and supported Pinochet in Chile to get rid of socialism and keep the money flowing back into the USA. .
Pity you weren't here for the bombing Syria debate
You mean the US/UK/FRA is fighting with ISIS? I wonder if Assad has anything they want or have an ideology they don't like.
So far some reports saying the video was real, but they panicked. Since the girl and the boy in the video looked happy in their following videos and not affected by the attack. So there are already questions raised. Waiting for the report..
Staggeringly enough... the vast majority of the remainers(neo liberals) are in favour of bombing more people, i know,I was shocked myself
It shows how complex people are. Simple labels don't work. The problem with liberal Vs left in my perspective. You can be liberal meaning all people should have an opportunity but I like the capitalist economy. The left are thinking more of how nothing works and need change and creating safety nets for those who fall off and rights.
So I think it is a time of protest and change but I see that most parties are wolves in sheep clothing. Including labour. But JC is an MP I respect. Don't get me wrong. But I don't think he can get the job done because there are too many rebels in the Labour party..
I genuinely worry about the world when right wingers are more anti war than centrists.
Don't worry Dave..The neo cons and your alt right chums will save you from the scary liberals and the Anglo Saxon apocalypse they are planning ... "
.
I'm not so sure as you bobsters but if I thought they would I'd vote for them tomorrow.
.... That's if I could be arsed voting |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Jc could not lead a dog...or a horse to water ...still he did dog the Abbott woman so some respect shown there ...fuck she is rough x.
Incisive  "
So far May likes to promote those who are not capable of doing their jobs. Although I think the Boris promotion was a punishment but hasn't worked out.
I'm more concerned about the government in power not the opposition who no-one thinks can win. So why waste any breathe on JC and put that effort in our government.
What's funny about the trolls in Facebook is that they are contributing to spreading JC's posts further. Most people read the article or the post. In social media I never read anything from May. So far he has free publicity. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"Jc could not lead a dog...or a horse to water ...still he did dog the Abbott woman so some respect shown there ...fuck she is rough x.
Incisive "
You know that someone has lost an argument when they resort to playing the (wo)man, and not the ball. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Communism. Communists are as antisemitic as NAZIs. That's why they have a problem. "
Huh? Cuba had good relations with Israel. They cut ties because they are close to the USA. China have diplomatic relations too. Laos was voted the least anti semetic country and has communism. Vietnam and Israel have a good relationship.
But is there a communist party in our country? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Communism. Communists are as antisemitic as NAZIs. That's why they have a problem.
Huh? Cuba had good relations with Israel. They cut ties because they are close to the USA. China have diplomatic relations too. Laos was voted the least anti semetic country and has communism. Vietnam and Israel have a good relationship.
But is there a communist party in our country?"
There are lots of communist parties in our country.
And to say that communists are as antisemitic as Nazis is a ludicrous statement above!
The Nazis systematically murdered 6 million Jews. The Bolsheviks when they came to power gave Jewish people equal rights in Soviet Russia and had many of Jewish heritage in positions of power. If course there were persecutions under Stalin but he can hardly be held up as following Marxist principles.
The left does not have an antisemitism problem greater than the right. In fact all of the polling and evidence consistently shows more antisemitism amongst Tory than Labour supporters and members. A lot of the media interest is driven by those who wish to remove Corbyn and they are this as a tool with which to attempt that, despite the fact that he's campaigned against all.forms.of racism consistently for 40 years. |
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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago
carrbrook stalybridge |
has anybody noticed that now the local elections are over the running commentary on Labour and corbyn's antisemitism is off the front pages and no longer leading the bbc news bulletins ? in fact there is a deafening silence on this now .
one wonders why that is ?
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Communism. Communists are as antisemitic as NAZIs. That's why they have a problem.
Huh? Cuba had good relations with Israel. They cut ties because they are close to the USA. China have diplomatic relations too. Laos was voted the least anti semetic country and has communism. Vietnam and Israel have a good relationship.
But is there a communist party in our country?
There are lots of communist parties in our country.
And to say that communists are as antisemitic as Nazis is a ludicrous statement above!
The Nazis systematically murdered 6 million Jews. The Bolsheviks when they came to power gave Jewish people equal rights in Soviet Russia and had many of Jewish heritage in positions of power. If course there were persecutions under Stalin but he can hardly be held up as following Marxist principles.
The left does not have an antisemitism problem greater than the right. In fact all of the polling and evidence consistently shows more antisemitism amongst Tory than Labour supporters and members. A lot of the media interest is driven by those who wish to remove Corbyn and they are this as a tool with which to attempt that, despite the fact that he's campaigned against all.forms.of racism consistently for 40 years."
.
Not to be pedantic but it was 3-3.5 million and they weren't all Jewish, quite alot were homosexuals, journalists, trade unionists, political opponents, homeless people etc etc |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Communism. Communists are as antisemitic as NAZIs. That's why they have a problem.
Huh? Cuba had good relations with Israel. They cut ties because they are close to the USA. China have diplomatic relations too. Laos was voted the least anti semetic country and has communism. Vietnam and Israel have a good relationship.
But is there a communist party in our country?
There are lots of communist parties in our country.
And to say that communists are as antisemitic as Nazis is a ludicrous statement above!
The Nazis systematically murdered 6 million Jews. The Bolsheviks when they came to power gave Jewish people equal rights in Soviet Russia and had many of Jewish heritage in positions of power. If course there were persecutions under Stalin but he can hardly be held up as following Marxist principles.
The left does not have an antisemitism problem greater than the right. In fact all of the polling and evidence consistently shows more antisemitism amongst Tory than Labour supporters and members. A lot of the media interest is driven by those who wish to remove Corbyn and they are this as a tool with which to attempt that, despite the fact that he's campaigned against all.forms.of racism consistently for 40 years..
Not to be pedantic but it was 3-3.5 million and they weren't all Jewish, quite alot were homosexuals, journalists, trade unionists, political opponents, homeless people etc etc"
Are you a Corbynista continuing to diminish the suffering of the Jewish people? These are the most accurate figures:-
Jews: up to 6 million
Soviet civilians: around 7 million (including 1.3 Soviet Jewish civilians, who are included in the 6 million figure for Jews)
Soviet prisoners of war: around 3 million (including about 50,000 Jewish soldiers)
Non-Jewish Polish civilians: around 1.8 million (including between 50,000 and 100,000 members of the Polish elites)
Serb civilians (on the territory of Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina): 312,000
People with disabilities living in institutions: up to 250,000
Roma (Gypsies): 196,000–220,000
Jehovah's Witnesses: around 1,900
Repeat criminal offenders and so-called asocials: at least 70,000
German political opponents and resistance activists in Axis-occupied territory: undetermined
Homosexuals: hundreds, possibly thousands (possibly also counted in part under the 70,000 repeat criminal offenders and so-called asocials noted above) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Communism. Communists are as antisemitic as NAZIs. That's why they have a problem.
Huh? Cuba had good relations with Israel. They cut ties because they are close to the USA. China have diplomatic relations too. Laos was voted the least anti semetic country and has communism. Vietnam and Israel have a good relationship.
But is there a communist party in our country?
There are lots of communist parties in our country.
And to say that communists are as antisemitic as Nazis is a ludicrous statement above!
The Nazis systematically murdered 6 million Jews. The Bolsheviks when they came to power gave Jewish people equal rights in Soviet Russia and had many of Jewish heritage in positions of power. If course there were persecutions under Stalin but he can hardly be held up as following Marxist principles.
The left does not have an antisemitism problem greater than the right. In fact all of the polling and evidence consistently shows more antisemitism amongst Tory than Labour supporters and members. A lot of the media interest is driven by those who wish to remove Corbyn and they are this as a tool with which to attempt that, despite the fact that he's campaigned against all.forms.of racism consistently for 40 years..
Not to be pedantic but it was 3-3.5 million and they weren't all Jewish, quite alot were homosexuals, journalists, trade unionists, political opponents, homeless people etc etc
Are you a Corbynista continuing to diminish the suffering of the Jewish people? These are the most accurate figures:-
Jews: up to 6 million
Soviet civilians: around 7 million (including 1.3 Soviet Jewish civilians, who are included in the 6 million figure for Jews)
Soviet prisoners of war: around 3 million (including about 50,000 Jewish soldiers)
Non-Jewish Polish civilians: around 1.8 million (including between 50,000 and 100,000 members of the Polish elites)
Serb civilians (on the territory of Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina): 312,000
People with disabilities living in institutions: up to 250,000
Roma (Gypsies): 196,000–220,000
Jehovah's Witnesses: around 1,900
Repeat criminal offenders and so-called asocials: at least 70,000
German political opponents and resistance activists in Axis-occupied territory: undetermined
Homosexuals: hundreds, possibly thousands (possibly also counted in part under the 70,000 repeat criminal offenders and so-called asocials noted above)"
.
No I'm just pedantic over the six million figure which for decades was completely made up and for decades since has been known to be completely inaccurate.
It's just one of those well known myths that's stuck in society's consciousness.
|
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"Communism. Communists are as antisemitic as NAZIs. That's why they have a problem.
Huh? Cuba had good relations with Israel. They cut ties because they are close to the USA. China have diplomatic relations too. Laos was voted the least anti semetic country and has communism. Vietnam and Israel have a good relationship.
But is there a communist party in our country?
There are lots of communist parties in our country.
And to say that communists are as antisemitic as Nazis is a ludicrous statement above!
The Nazis systematically murdered 6 million Jews. The Bolsheviks when they came to power gave Jewish people equal rights in Soviet Russia and had many of Jewish heritage in positions of power. If course there were persecutions under Stalin but he can hardly be held up as following Marxist principles.
The left does not have an antisemitism problem greater than the right. In fact all of the polling and evidence consistently shows more antisemitism amongst Tory than Labour supporters and members. A lot of the media interest is driven by those who wish to remove Corbyn and they are this as a tool with which to attempt that, despite the fact that he's campaigned against all.forms.of racism consistently for 40 years..
Not to be pedantic but it was 3-3.5 million and they weren't all Jewish, quite alot were homosexuals, journalists, trade unionists, political opponents, homeless people etc etc
Are you a Corbynista continuing to diminish the suffering of the Jewish people? These are the most accurate figures:-
Jews: up to 6 million
Soviet civilians: around 7 million (including 1.3 Soviet Jewish civilians, who are included in the 6 million figure for Jews)
Soviet prisoners of war: around 3 million (including about 50,000 Jewish soldiers)
Non-Jewish Polish civilians: around 1.8 million (including between 50,000 and 100,000 members of the Polish elites)
Serb civilians (on the territory of Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina): 312,000
People with disabilities living in institutions: up to 250,000
Roma (Gypsies): 196,000–220,000
Jehovah's Witnesses: around 1,900
Repeat criminal offenders and so-called asocials: at least 70,000
German political opponents and resistance activists in Axis-occupied territory: undetermined
Homosexuals: hundreds, possibly thousands (possibly also counted in part under the 70,000 repeat criminal offenders and so-called asocials noted above).
No I'm just pedantic over the six million figure which for decades was completely made up and for decades since has been known to be completely inaccurate.
It's just one of those well known myths that's stuck in society's consciousness.
"
Evidence to prove it was only half as appalling ...  |
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"has anybody noticed that now the local elections are over the running commentary on Labour and corbyn's antisemitism is off the front pages and no longer leading the bbc news bulletins ? in fact there is a deafening silence on this now .
one wonders why that is ?
"
Swap the word Labour for Conservative, then the word Corbyn for Theresa May, and then the word antisemitism for Windrush and the comment would be equally as valid. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"has anybody noticed that now the local elections are over the running commentary on Labour and corbyn's antisemitism is off the front pages and no longer leading the bbc news bulletins ? in fact there is a deafening silence on this now .
one wonders why that is ?
Swap the word Labour for Conservative, then the word Corbyn for Theresa May, and then the word antisemitism for Windrush and the comment would be equally as valid. "
One is government policy, the other is about party discipline. Not really the same. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
well you've got Diane Abbott a racist and Jeremy a terrorist. the Labour party = absoutle joke and I think they are a danger to this country.
better the devil you know |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"well you've got Diane Abbott a racist and Jeremy a terrorist. the Labour party = absoutle joke and I think they are a danger to this country.
better the devil you know "
Corbyn, McDonnell, Thornberry, Abbott.
Labour's equivalent of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Communism. Communists are as antisemitic as NAZIs. That's why they have a problem.
Huh? Cuba had good relations with Israel. They cut ties because they are close to the USA. China have diplomatic relations too. Laos was voted the least anti semetic country and has communism. Vietnam and Israel have a good relationship.
But is there a communist party in our country?
There are lots of communist parties in our country.
And to say that communists are as antisemitic as Nazis is a ludicrous statement above!
The Nazis systematically murdered 6 million Jews. The Bolsheviks when they came to power gave Jewish people equal rights in Soviet Russia and had many of Jewish heritage in positions of power. If course there were persecutions under Stalin but he can hardly be held up as following Marxist principles.
The left does not have an antisemitism problem greater than the right. In fact all of the polling and evidence consistently shows more antisemitism amongst Tory than Labour supporters and members. A lot of the media interest is driven by those who wish to remove Corbyn and they are this as a tool with which to attempt that, despite the fact that he's campaigned against all.forms.of racism consistently for 40 years..
Not to be pedantic but it was 3-3.5 million and they weren't all Jewish, quite alot were homosexuals, journalists, trade unionists, political opponents, homeless people etc etc
Are you a Corbynista continuing to diminish the suffering of the Jewish people? These are the most accurate figures:-
Jews: up to 6 million
Soviet civilians: around 7 million (including 1.3 Soviet Jewish civilians, who are included in the 6 million figure for Jews)
Soviet prisoners of war: around 3 million (including about 50,000 Jewish soldiers)
Non-Jewish Polish civilians: around 1.8 million (including between 50,000 and 100,000 members of the Polish elites)
Serb civilians (on the territory of Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina): 312,000
People with disabilities living in institutions: up to 250,000
Roma (Gypsies): 196,000–220,000
Jehovah's Witnesses: around 1,900
Repeat criminal offenders and so-called asocials: at least 70,000
German political opponents and resistance activists in Axis-occupied territory: undetermined
Homosexuals: hundreds, possibly thousands (possibly also counted in part under the 70,000 repeat criminal offenders and so-called asocials noted above).
No I'm just pedantic over the six million figure which for decades was completely made up and for decades since has been known to be completely inaccurate.
It's just one of those well known myths that's stuck in society's consciousness.
Evidence to prove it was only half as appalling ... "
.
Well it's more about an understanding of history than a morality point of view.
The poster above I think has mixed up concentration camps with extermination camps.
The original statement was I think alluding to the extermination camps (systematic murder of 6 million Jews). |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"well you've got Diane Abbott a racist and Jeremy a terrorist. the Labour party = absoutle joke and I think they are a danger to this country.
better the devil you know "
What evidence do you have to substantiate either of those allegations? |
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"Communism. Communists are as antisemitic as NAZIs. That's why they have a problem.
Huh? Cuba had good relations with Israel. They cut ties because they are close to the USA. China have diplomatic relations too. Laos was voted the least anti semetic country and has communism. Vietnam and Israel have a good relationship.
But is there a communist party in our country?
There are lots of communist parties in our country.
And to say that communists are as antisemitic as Nazis is a ludicrous statement above!
The Nazis systematically murdered 6 million Jews. The Bolsheviks when they came to power gave Jewish people equal rights in Soviet Russia and had many of Jewish heritage in positions of power. If course there were persecutions under Stalin but he can hardly be held up as following Marxist principles.
The left does not have an antisemitism problem greater than the right. In fact all of the polling and evidence consistently shows more antisemitism amongst Tory than Labour supporters and members. A lot of the media interest is driven by those who wish to remove Corbyn and they are this as a tool with which to attempt that, despite the fact that he's campaigned against all.forms.of racism consistently for 40 years..
Not to be pedantic but it was 3-3.5 million and they weren't all Jewish, quite alot were homosexuals, journalists, trade unionists, political opponents, homeless people etc etc
Are you a Corbynista continuing to diminish the suffering of the Jewish people? These are the most accurate figures:-
Jews: up to 6 million
Soviet civilians: around 7 million (including 1.3 Soviet Jewish civilians, who are included in the 6 million figure for Jews)
Soviet prisoners of war: around 3 million (including about 50,000 Jewish soldiers)
Non-Jewish Polish civilians: around 1.8 million (including between 50,000 and 100,000 members of the Polish elites)
Serb civilians (on the territory of Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina): 312,000
People with disabilities living in institutions: up to 250,000
Roma (Gypsies): 196,000–220,000
Jehovah's Witnesses: around 1,900
Repeat criminal offenders and so-called asocials: at least 70,000
German political opponents and resistance activists in Axis-occupied territory: undetermined
Homosexuals: hundreds, possibly thousands (possibly also counted in part under the 70,000 repeat criminal offenders and so-called asocials noted above).
No I'm just pedantic over the six million figure which for decades was completely made up and for decades since has been known to be completely inaccurate.
It's just one of those well known myths that's stuck in society's consciousness.
Evidence to prove it was only half as appalling ... .
Well it's more about an understanding of history than a morality point of view.
The poster above I think has mixed up concentration camps with extermination camps.
The original statement was I think alluding to the extermination camps (systematic murder of 6 million Jews)."
I think they were pointing out that 6 million Jewish people died at the hands of the Germans - it is semantic to argue one method is worse than another... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Communism. Communists are as antisemitic as NAZIs. That's why they have a problem.
Huh? Cuba had good relations with Israel. They cut ties because they are close to the USA. China have diplomatic relations too. Laos was voted the least anti semetic country and has communism. Vietnam and Israel have a good relationship.
But is there a communist party in our country?
There are lots of communist parties in our country.
And to say that communists are as antisemitic as Nazis is a ludicrous statement above!
The Nazis systematically murdered 6 million Jews. The Bolsheviks when they came to power gave Jewish people equal rights in Soviet Russia and had many of Jewish heritage in positions of power. If course there were persecutions under Stalin but he can hardly be held up as following Marxist principles.
The left does not have an antisemitism problem greater than the right. In fact all of the polling and evidence consistently shows more antisemitism amongst Tory than Labour supporters and members. A lot of the media interest is driven by those who wish to remove Corbyn and they are this as a tool with which to attempt that, despite the fact that he's campaigned against all.forms.of racism consistently for 40 years..
Not to be pedantic but it was 3-3.5 million and they weren't all Jewish, quite alot were homosexuals, journalists, trade unionists, political opponents, homeless people etc etc
Are you a Corbynista continuing to diminish the suffering of the Jewish people? These are the most accurate figures:-
Jews: up to 6 million
Soviet civilians: around 7 million (including 1.3 Soviet Jewish civilians, who are included in the 6 million figure for Jews)
Soviet prisoners of war: around 3 million (including about 50,000 Jewish soldiers)
Non-Jewish Polish civilians: around 1.8 million (including between 50,000 and 100,000 members of the Polish elites)
Serb civilians (on the territory of Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina): 312,000
People with disabilities living in institutions: up to 250,000
Roma (Gypsies): 196,000–220,000
Jehovah's Witnesses: around 1,900
Repeat criminal offenders and so-called asocials: at least 70,000
German political opponents and resistance activists in Axis-occupied territory: undetermined
Homosexuals: hundreds, possibly thousands (possibly also counted in part under the 70,000 repeat criminal offenders and so-called asocials noted above).
No I'm just pedantic over the six million figure which for decades was completely made up and for decades since has been known to be completely inaccurate.
It's just one of those well known myths that's stuck in society's consciousness.
Evidence to prove it was only half as appalling ... .
Well it's more about an understanding of history than a morality point of view.
The poster above I think has mixed up concentration camps with extermination camps.
The original statement was I think alluding to the extermination camps (systematic murder of 6 million Jews).
I think they were pointing out that 6 million Jewish people died at the hands of the Germans - it is semantic to argue one method is worse than another..."
.
No not really, your conflating two different types of deaths, it would be the same as a judge saying your being semantic for wanting manslaughter over murder charges.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Except both are murder....
Well if that's your argument they murdered more non Jews than Jews so let's stop talking about Nazis and Jews hey?
No, you can’t deny the holocaust that easily"
.
Who said I was denying it, I'm educating you on the facts of it,
Most people don't the difference between an extermination camp and a concentration camp like yourself, I'm just a pedant for detail.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The annihilation of the Jewish diaspora was terrible, yes.
The Mail and Express here were guilty of the most outrageous anti-semitism in the 1930s.
Jews were pouring out of central Europe and they campaigned against them being let into the UK.
(Which was one reason the US built a nuclear bomb before the UK, but that's another story).
But there is another side to the story often untold.
The Jews are very good at ensuring their dreadful narrative remains alive.
Not so the disabled, the LGBT, the gypsies and loads of other minorities considered undesirable by the Nazis and who perished in the camps, too.
Their story rarely gets told, only that of the Jews.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Reporting on Hitler" by Will Wainewright is a fascinating read.
It's about Rothay Reynolds, Berlin correspondent for various newspapers in the 1930s.
It is a truly awful reflection on the proprietors of British newspapers who censored and edited the horror stories coming out of Berlin.
Why? Because they were sympathetic to Hitler.
I always remind myself of that when I hear those papers, the Telegraph included, shout about anti-semitism in Labour.
The book lays bare their skeletons for all to see. |
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"Except both are murder....
Well if that's your argument they murdered more non Jews than Jews so let's stop talking about Nazis and Jews hey?
No, you can’t deny the holocaust that easily.
Who said I was denying it, I'm educating you on the facts of it,
Most people don't the difference between an extermination camp and a concentration camp like yourself, I'm just a pedant for detail.
"
You have no idea how much I know, nor do I about you. Your position is merely an opinion and you are wrong.
This is not about the difference between any form of camp, whether it was Belsen or any other. What was done to the Jews and others, but mainly the Jews is indefensible. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Except both are murder....
Well if that's your argument they murdered more non Jews than Jews so let's stop talking about Nazis and Jews hey?
No, you can’t deny the holocaust that easily.
Who said I was denying it, I'm educating you on the facts of it,
Most people don't the difference between an extermination camp and a concentration camp like yourself, I'm just a pedant for detail.
You have no idea how much I know, nor do I about you. Your position is merely an opinion and you are wrong.
This is not about the difference between any form of camp, whether it was Belsen or any other. What was done to the Jews and others, but mainly the Jews is indefensible."
.
The Slavs will disagree with you so would the Russians!.
Your right though, it's just an opinion based on the fact that more Slavs and Russians were murdered in "concentration camps" than Jews |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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""Reporting on Hitler" by Will Wainewright is a fascinating read.
It's about Rothay Reynolds, Berlin correspondent for various newspapers in the 1930s.
It is a truly awful reflection on the proprietors of British newspapers who censored and edited the horror stories coming out of Berlin.
Why? Because they were sympathetic to Hitler.
I always remind myself of that when I hear those papers, the Telegraph included, shout about anti-semitism in Labour.
The book lays bare their skeletons for all to see."
.
That's because Jew hating far out dates Hitler, Hitler just latched on to the pogroms of the mid to late 1800s attached it to an already massive dislike of the Bolsheviks in 30s Germany and voila, a ready made enemy.
Totalitarianism and fascism are alive and well today, most western states are already half way there, it's the states response to having less financial control over it's citizens |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Which holocaust was the worst.? Its quite obviously the African and the native American holocaust.Both lasted around 400 years.Some argue they never stopped.Figures of 50 million dead make the Jewish holocaust seem considerably smaller.Terrible none the less. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Which holocaust was the worst.? Its quite obviously the African and the native American holocaust.Both lasted around 400 years.Some argue they never stopped.Figures of 50 million dead make the Jewish holocaust seem considerably smaller.Terrible none the less."
.
The extermination of the human race by hydrocarbons |
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There is patently a world of difference between genocide and slavery. Neither has any merit, but trying to belittle one over the other displays a singular lack of comprehension and understanding of the context. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There is patently a world of difference between genocide and slavery. Neither has any merit, but trying to belittle one over the other displays a singular lack of comprehension and understanding of the context."
My family is made up of Jews and Jamaicans and Germans and Cornish your lack of understanding and context is not surprising.You are no better than all the holocaust deniers that come through this forum.You tried labeling Dave a holocaust denier now me.Your knowledge on the subject is woefully inadequate or willfully ignorant of you are just trolling. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"There is patently a world of difference between genocide and slavery. Neither has any merit, but trying to belittle one over the other displays a singular lack of comprehension and understanding of the context."
So there was no genocide of Native Americans, or Austrilasians or Carribeans? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There is patently a world of difference between genocide and slavery. Neither has any merit, but trying to belittle one over the other displays a singular lack of comprehension and understanding of the context."
.
I'm not belittling anything, I'm just a pedant for detail, it matters if you really want to grasp history otherwise you just end up spouting on about morality of an issue and concentrating on one particular group, when the reality is it wasn't one particular group affected |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Maybe that's why the left have an "issue", because they've read more about it than most, it's not anti Semitism, it's just an acceptance that Jews seem to have a monopoly on the Holocaust, where's the Schindlers list for the Slavs or the Russians or the trade unionists?.
It's not anti Semitism anyone in general, it's anti Zionism, it's this notion that because something bad happened to somebody a generation ago you should somehow be given redemption for atrocities committed today |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"Maybe that's why the left have an "issue", because they've read more about it than most, it's not anti Semitism, it's just an acceptance that Jews seem to have a monopoly on the Holocaust, where's the Schindlers list for the Slavs or the Russians or the trade unionists?.
It's not anti Semitism anyone in general, it's anti Zionism, it's this notion that because something bad happened to somebody a generation ago you should somehow be given redemption for atrocities committed today"
Not to mention the genocide committed by the British Empire that we seem not to want to talk about.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Maybe that's why the left have an "issue", because they've read more about it than most, it's not anti Semitism, it's just an acceptance that Jews seem to have a monopoly on the Holocaust, where's the Schindlers list for the Slavs or the Russians or the trade unionists?.
It's not anti Semitism anyone in general, it's anti Zionism, it's this notion that because something bad happened to somebody a generation ago you should somehow be given redemption for atrocities committed today
Not to mention the genocide committed by the British Empire that we seem not to want to talk about...."
.
I'm more than happy to chit chat about the British empire, good or bad, I just don't think it has relevance to today's misgivings in society, which is my point about the Jewish Holocaust,I mean Jewish Zionism has been going on since the pogroms, we need a Jewish state for protection, it's no different than Isis's claim of needing a caliphate, it's crazy people that use bad things in history to manipulate they're own political and dogmatic beliefs.
If anything they learnt from the Nazis and copied them |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Maybe that's why the left have an "issue", because they've read more about it than most, it's not anti Semitism, it's just an acceptance that Jews seem to have a monopoly on the Holocaust, where's the Schindlers list for the Slavs or the Russians or the trade unionists?.
It's not anti Semitism anyone in general, it's anti Zionism, it's this notion that because something bad happened to somebody a generation ago you should somehow be given redemption for atrocities committed today
Not to mention the genocide committed by the British Empire that we seem not to want to talk about...."
Also, not to mention any other pathetic little deflection of the true theme of this thread, which is Labour's apparent hatred of Jews eh? Why not instead of trying to deny the left's anti-Jewish bile, accept that you belong to a racist party and try to do something about it? Just after some of the camps had been liberated, the local German townspeople were forced to go and see the horrific conditions in the camps, because, like many of the people on here, they just didn't believe that the atrocities were as bad as were made out. They were.
You, and many of the other deniers on this thread should be forced to visit Auschwitz and see for yourselves the horrors that you're trying to clumsily play down. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Maybe that's why the left have an "issue", because they've read more about it than most, it's not anti Semitism, it's just an acceptance that Jews seem to have a monopoly on the Holocaust, where's the Schindlers list for the Slavs or the Russians or the trade unionists?.
It's not anti Semitism anyone in general, it's anti Zionism, it's this notion that because something bad happened to somebody a generation ago you should somehow be given redemption for atrocities committed today
Not to mention the genocide committed by the British Empire that we seem not to want to talk about....
Also, not to mention any other pathetic little deflection of the true theme of this thread, which is Labour's apparent hatred of Jews eh? Why not instead of trying to deny the left's anti-Jewish bile, accept that you belong to a racist party and try to do something about it? Just after some of the camps had been liberated, the local German townspeople were forced to go and see the horrific conditions in the camps, because, like many of the people on here, they just didn't believe that the atrocities were as bad as were made out. They were.
You, and many of the other deniers on this thread should be forced to visit Auschwitz and see for yourselves the horrors that you're trying to clumsily play down."
.
Been there twice, the scale of it is phenomenal, it's like industrialised farming geared up for humans |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'd recommend a trip to Treblinka or majdanek for those interested in such stuff, there's not alot to see at Treblinka because the Nazis dismantled nearly everything but it's still very spine tingling, majdanek is more interesting as it was captured by the Soviets intact, initially the Soviets widely overestimated the amount of deaths as 2 million which stuck for awhile but the reality was around 80,000 if I remember correctly, 50,000 Jews 30,000 poles, Treblinka I can't quite remember,I think it was only in operation for a year or two but still vast amounts were killed there.
There's a book about native American atrocities that's quite fascinating, I read it years ago, whole swathes of tribes, men women and children brutally hacked up and mass buried, of course that was long before America was even discovered.
Mass murder is rather an old trait |
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"There is patently a world of difference between genocide and slavery. Neither has any merit, but trying to belittle one over the other displays a singular lack of comprehension and understanding of the context.
My family is made up of Jews and Jamaicans and Germans and Cornish your lack of understanding and context is not surprising.You are no better than all the holocaust deniers that come through this forum.You tried labeling Dave a holocaust denier now me.Your knowledge on the subject is woefully inadequate or willfully ignorant of you are just trolling. "
Quite the opposite actually. Nobody labelled you a holocaust denier, I questioned the logic of comparing an attempted genocide with slavery. Both are patently bad, but trying to say one is less bad is not being pedantic, it is being misguided.
As pedant Dave keeps pointing out it is important to get specific facts right - however, the issue hear is that any form of these evils is wrong - no matter who perpetrated them, or when. |
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