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Another referendum
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Given that the shape of Brexit was unknown at the time of the referendum, should we have another referendum when we know what the final deal is? I know most are bitterly opposed to this, but it does have a certain logic. |
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No..
despite being opposed to it from the outset and voting to remain its done and whatever the outcome then we have to get on with it in whatever form it comes..
If Parliament bins it then that would be fine but i doubt that will happen and whatever we end up will be a fudge to keep the far right swivel eyed loons in the Tory party who wont be happy quiet or quiet to a point that people will just go yeah mate we've been through all that and don't want to know again..
we will still be part in but not in, a total fudge and a waste of money and time when the elected representatives could have been sorting out more pressing issues within society.. |
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By *VBethTV/TS
over a year ago
Chester |
Cue the hellfire and damnation, swampy cesspit of death, brexiter scum nonsense that usually follows these things. Logic says that there are plenty of people who would turn down any deal that wasn't gold plated, more than we ever gave Europe because they're daft enough to feel entitled to it. Others would take anything at all to leave no matter how crap. And many people in the middle wondering... who would stick with the status quo because they fear change. And all of their opinions are valid, ??but few are helpful. I just feel it would cause more confusion. And many more lies. We've had enough of both.
(Insult shield raised, go ahead  ) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes & no
Yes because only then would everyone have an informed choice knowing far more about the outcome of either choice.
No because maybe if Brexit is the total disaster I think it will be then there may be a chance future governments will learn there's something's you don't ask the uneducated masses to decide upon that has so far reaching consequences for the entire nation. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I understand the point.
That the vision of what "leave" looked like was, well, let's just say, somewhat obscured.
That's down to the idiots who called referendum and those who led the leave campaigns.
Let's say there is another referendum.
What would the question be?
And what would the consequences be of either outcome?
In order to address the weakness of the first referendum, the second would need clear and unambiguous visions of what either outcome looked like.
My preference, I think, is to leave it to the political party manifestos at a General Election.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Given that the shape of Brexit was unknown at the time of the referendum, should we have another referendum when we know what the final deal is? I know most are bitterly opposed to this, but it does have a certain logic. "
WHY NOT FINISH THE OTHER 4 THREADS ONGOING AT THIS MOMENT REQUESTING ANOTHER REFERENDUM RATHER THAN START THIS ONE |
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The question of a second referendum is quite a complex issue with a number of competing factors to take into account. To claim any of these factors must be supreme is clearly nonsense.
Firstly there are the two diametrically opposed economic arguments. One goes, we were given no clear vision as to what a post brexit Britain would look like economically and therefore the country should have the final say when deal is known. Opposed to that view and equally valid is the position that says we were told that to leave the EU meant leaving the CU, EEA and all EU bodies, if any who voted out did not understand the implications of that (economic or otherwise) then tough, you made your choice now live with it.
Then there are the political and democratic arguments. These again break into 2 diametrically opposed camps.
One that goes along the lines of the choice is made, thats it. Hoist the battle ensign, dress the ship, full steam ahead and dam the torpedoes! (Pick your own choice of patriotic music and turn the volume up!) Commodore Brexit-Farage pushed for the orders for years and now Captain BoJo Tory-Eurosceptic is at the helm and 'by god' he has his orders and will do his duty even if it means HMS Britain and all its crew will be lost, he is going to ram the battleship EU. All very patriotic, boys own and makes a great action movie designed to unite the country together against a common foe. Also total bullshit, but very alluring and shows how emotional a subject this is.
Against that is the counter position that had the reality of brexit been explained to the British people they would not have voted leave, that in a democracy everyone has a right to change their mind, the only reason the leave faction are so determined there should be no second vote on the issue is because they know they would be overwhelmingly defeated in a second vote and that the only way to reunite the country is to have a second referendum on the final deal.
Personally, I think that if there is to be any sort of meaningful political change in this country then we have to play this hand out and force those who have lied about the EU for decades to own their deceits and obfuscations, even if it results in violence or even revolution. Just my opinion, nothing more or less. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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We are now almost 2 years from the referendum and a year from Brexit and we still dont really know what the final deal will look like, so I dont think anyone voted based on known outcomes. We could leave it to parliament but do the politicians really have the political will to overturn a referendum result, even if they believe the negotiated settlement is against the interests of the country?
I was initially against the idea of a second referendum but I am feeling more and more persuaded that it is the right thing to do. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I voted remain, but a second referendum and "remain" win just pisses off "leave"! Do we go best out of 3? I really believe we have to see brexit through. This way one side or the other will be "proved" right. This is an experiment of gigantic proportions and NOBODY knows how it will go from either side. What we should do is set a time limit of how long we give it - only if it goes wrong. If it goes right we should see very quickly that it is. I would say 5 years max and then maybe another vote? |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
There would be some interesting conundrums in the event of a further referendum. For example... Would Theresa May still back Remain or would she now say that after everything she has experienced and “learned” (lol) that she now backs Leave?
The absolute reality is that our elected Politicians who really ought to have a better idea of the political implications of leaving than we do - well they have been, and continue to be struggling with organising a leaving process that is even remotely good for the U.K. If they were ignorant - how on Earth was sweaty bollox, ordinary bloke expected to make an informed decision?
Sad as it sounds, I think that a second referendum would create even more division and hostility and because the complacent Remain voters may well swing the vote - then what? A narrow Remain vote would be even worse than what we now have.
I should say that I think that now we should leave it to the elected representatives to resolve one way or the other. Unfortunately though, we have the most incompetent Govt in living memory and an Opposition that trips themselves up every time they have the opportunity to score in an open goal.
So what then????.... I wonder if the political landscape is fertile enough for something/someone new? Charismatic, no bullshit and a cohesive force that can bring the country together again. That is my hope because right now with all the talk of campaign fraud, Downing Street outing a gay guy because they didn’t agree with him and the likes of Rees Mogg trying to take the country back - 150 years - I feel kind of in despair for where we are heading. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There would be some interesting conundrums in the event of a further referendum. For example... Would Theresa May still back Remain or would she now say that after everything she has experienced and “learned” (lol) that she now backs Leave?
The absolute reality is that our elected Politicians who really ought to have a better idea of the political implications of leaving than we do - well they have been, and continue to be struggling with organising a leaving process that is even remotely good for the U.K. If they were ignorant - how on Earth was sweaty bollox, ordinary bloke expected to make an informed decision?
Sad as it sounds, I think that a second referendum would create even more division and hostility and because the complacent Remain voters may well swing the vote - then what? A narrow Remain vote would be even worse than what we now have.
I should say that I think that now we should leave it to the elected representatives to resolve one way or the other. Unfortunately though, we have the most incompetent Govt in living memory and an Opposition that trips themselves up every time they have the opportunity to score in an open goal.
So what then????.... I wonder if the political landscape is fertile enough for something/someone new? Charismatic, no bullshit and a cohesive force that can bring the country together again. That is my hope because right now with all the talk of campaign fraud, Downing Street outing a gay guy because they didn’t agree with him and the likes of Rees Mogg trying to take the country back - 150 years - I feel kind of in despair for where we are heading."
The World is what you make of it, why sit in gloom and despair when you can rejoice and enjoy every single day that god gives you.
The World is a large place, get out, go exploring, enjoy life, leave the politics to people who love the lime light, let them work their arse off every day in Parliament,
.
at the end of the day, they will die, they all die, we all die.
.
so instead of whinging, why not try enjoying life
.
Trust me, its great  |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"There would be some interesting conundrums in the event of a further referendum. For example... Would Theresa May still back Remain or would she now say that after everything she has experienced and “learned” (lol) that she now backs Leave?
The absolute reality is that our elected Politicians who really ought to have a better idea of the political implications of leaving than we do - well they have been, and continue to be struggling with organising a leaving process that is even remotely good for the U.K. If they were ignorant - how on Earth was sweaty bollox, ordinary bloke expected to make an informed decision?
Sad as it sounds, I think that a second referendum would create even more division and hostility and because the complacent Remain voters may well swing the vote - then what? A narrow Remain vote would be even worse than what we now have.
I should say that I think that now we should leave it to the elected representatives to resolve one way or the other. Unfortunately though, we have the most incompetent Govt in living memory and an Opposition that trips themselves up every time they have the opportunity to score in an open goal.
So what then????.... I wonder if the political landscape is fertile enough for something/someone new? Charismatic, no bullshit and a cohesive force that can bring the country together again. That is my hope because right now with all the talk of campaign fraud, Downing Street outing a gay guy because they didn’t agree with him and the likes of Rees Mogg trying to take the country back - 150 years - I feel kind of in despair for where we are heading.
The World is what you make of it, why sit in gloom and despair when you can rejoice and enjoy every single day that god gives you.
The World is a large place, get out, go exploring, enjoy life, leave the politics to people who love the lime light, let them work their arse off every day in Parliament,
.
at the end of the day, they will die, they all die, we all die.
.
so instead of whinging, why not try enjoying life
.
Trust me, its great "
I chose to answer the question of the OP.
You should try it instead of trying to give yourself a hard on attempting to get one over on people on an anonymous swinging forum. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There would be some interesting conundrums in the event of a further referendum. For example... Would Theresa May still back Remain or would she now say that after everything she has experienced and “learned” (lol) that she now backs Leave?
The absolute reality is that our elected Politicians who really ought to have a better idea of the political implications of leaving than we do - well they have been, and continue to be struggling with organising a leaving process that is even remotely good for the U.K. If they were ignorant - how on Earth was sweaty bollox, ordinary bloke expected to make an informed decision?
Sad as it sounds, I think that a second referendum would create even more division and hostility and because the complacent Remain voters may well swing the vote - then what? A narrow Remain vote would be even worse than what we now have.
I should say that I think that now we should leave it to the elected representatives to resolve one way or the other. Unfortunately though, we have the most incompetent Govt in living memory and an Opposition that trips themselves up every time they have the opportunity to score in an open goal.
So what then????.... I wonder if the political landscape is fertile enough for something/someone new? Charismatic, no bullshit and a cohesive force that can bring the country together again. That is my hope because right now with all the talk of campaign fraud, Downing Street outing a gay guy because they didn’t agree with him and the likes of Rees Mogg trying to take the country back - 150 years - I feel kind of in despair for where we are heading.
The World is what you make of it, why sit in gloom and despair when you can rejoice and enjoy every single day that god gives you.
The World is a large place, get out, go exploring, enjoy life, leave the politics to people who love the lime light, let them work their arse off every day in Parliament,
.
at the end of the day, they will die, they all die, we all die.
.
so instead of whinging, why not try enjoying life
.
Trust me, its great
I chose to answer the question of the OP.
You should try it instead of trying to give yourself a hard on attempting to get one over on people on an anonymous swinging forum. "
The World is what you make of it, why sit in gloom and despair when you can rejoice and enjoy every single day that god gives you |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Ahh, so God gave mankind "Mondays".... he must really hate us all 
God gave us, interesting, if that's what makes you feel better believing then nice one  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Well the brexiters were an angry bunch spitting venom before brexit.If we piss them off anymore they'll probably blow a fuse and some nut job will commit murder again.So give them what they want and sit back with some popcorn and watch it all go to shit. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
Well me and Tony still think we should have another referendum. Parliament hasn't got the guts or mandate to stop brexit but they do have the power to vote for another referendum on the final deal, and I still think they may do so. If leave lost, of course some will be spitting mad, but there are plenty remainers who are currently in that position. And the majority will just carry on going about their business. |
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If the result of the referendum is ignored it will simply confirm that we are under the control of a shadowy force ( call it the ’establishment ‘ or the ‘deep state ‘ or whatever you want to call it ) that make us think we live in a democracy but that democracy is only allowed to be exercised as long as we don’t challenge the status quo .
To me a compromise to placate Remoaners is to have a referendum to rejoin after 20 years ( by then the undemocratic and corrupt political project called the EU may have totally collapsed anyway ), otherwise we will be having referendums every few years about this issue |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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" If the result of the referendum is ignored it will simply confirm that we are under the control of a shadowy force ( call it the ’establishment ‘ or the ‘deep state ‘ or whatever you want to call it ) that make us think we live in a democracy but that democracy is only allowed to be exercised as long as we don’t challenge the status quo .
To me a compromise to placate Remoaners is to have a referendum to rejoin after 20 years ( by then the undemocratic and corrupt political project called the EU may have totally collapsed anyway ), otherwise we will be having referendums every few years about this issue "
It's not a shadowy force, its parliament, our elected representatives who need to agree and pass the final deal. And I think it is going to get very messy. |
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The sovereignty of the people should mean that there has to be a deal rejection /acceptance vote. Likewise with parliament.
The first one was an advisory poll, where there was little clue what it would involve if the UK left. As it's potentially the biggest change for many people over the whole course of their lives it's naturally right that they decide based on the facts of the offer. |
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Where did it say - "This is advisory only"?
It wasn't on the paper on which I put my cross.
And David Cameron never said - "It's advisory only, we don't have to take any notice of it".
And how come Parliament have now acted on it and voted overwhelmingly for Brexit?
And how come the Article 50 letter was sent to Brussels and accepted?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
YouGov Poll states 70% of UK population now accept Brexit
mentioned on ITV this morning.
.
the 30% who don't accept, need to get over it and face reality |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"YouGov Poll states 70% of UK population now accept Brexit
mentioned on ITV this morning.
.
the 30% who don't accept, need to get over it and face reality"
Accepting it doesn't mean support it. And the majority do not, apparently. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
Sorry but what mandate is there for a 2nd EU referendum ? Where is the evidence to say England has changed its mind?
Dont get me wrong i hope England does change its mind on brexit but there is no mandate
Where as there is a mandate for a Scottish independence referendum but sure as hell there seems to be alot trying to ignore that mandate |
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I had to smile at Jo Swinson calling for another referendum. This from the hypocrites who always wanted to deny the British people a vote on their future.
Neither liberal nor democratic. Just cunts. |
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I love the mindset of people on issues like this.
"We've made a decision, lets just get on with it." Like if they were driving and took a wrong turn they wouldnt correct course, they'd just keep on going in the wrong direction because the decision was made. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"I love the mindset of people on issues like this.
"We've made a decision, lets just get on with it." Like if they were driving and took a wrong turn they wouldnt correct course, they'd just keep on going in the wrong direction because the decision was made."
crazy eh
What gets me is they are being told and told brexit is going to be bad and still they say " lets get on with it " actually willing to accept damage you are allowed to change your minds if you think its going to be bad lol |
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Polling consistently suggests that there is no change of heart in terms of buyer's remorse - indeed, some who voted remain have accepted the result and just want it implemented as efficiently as possible |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Think we will try and get out of this shite country before Brexit takes effect and free movement finishes."
Goodbye don't let the door hit you on your way out lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Think we will try and get out of this shite country before Brexit takes effect and free movement finishes."
Many Brits are doing this apparently as sales of property are up!
It takes a lot of planning though - and without knowing the final deal it could be difficult getting set up. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"We do like France and Spain. "
Spain ? Really the way Spains government is treating Catalan people right now ?
Yes Spain is beautiful and the people can be really nice but you move their and you then have to deal with the reborn Franco Rajoy government dictators that willingly sent Spains police to beat the shit out of innocent Calalan people and lock up people who gave the Catalans a democratic choice on a referendum no matter which side your on with Calatan independence its wrong to brat the shit out of innocent people who only wanted to vote |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Think we will try and get out of this shite country before Brexit takes effect and free movement finishes."
Sounds like what so many said in USA, shouting they will leave if Trump wins presidency
.
Guess what, they never left, they are still whinging but still never left.  |
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"Think we will try and get out of this shite country before Brexit takes effect and free movement finishes.
Sounds like what so many said in USA, shouting they will leave if Trump wins presidency
.
Guess what, they never left, they are still whinging but still never left. "
Many will talk the talk but very few will walk the walk! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We do like France and Spain.
Spain ? Really the way Spains government is treating Catalan people right now ?
Yes Spain is beautiful and the people can be really nice but you move their and you then have to deal with the reborn Franco Rajoy government dictators that willingly sent Spains police to beat the shit out of innocent Calalan people and lock up people who gave the Catalans a democratic choice on a referendum no matter which side your on with Calatan independence its wrong to brat the shit out of innocent people who only wanted to vote "
What do you mean?
Spain had a region declare UDI - what do you expect?
When the Irish tried we the British sent in the army and shot the protesters! |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"We do like France and Spain.
Spain ? Really the way Spains government is treating Catalan people right now ?
Yes Spain is beautiful and the people can be really nice but you move their and you then have to deal with the reborn Franco Rajoy government dictators that willingly sent Spains police to beat the shit out of innocent Calalan people and lock up people who gave the Catalans a democratic choice on a referendum no matter which side your on with Calatan independence its wrong to brat the shit out of innocent people who only wanted to vote
What do you mean?
Spain had a region declare UDI - what do you expect?
When the Irish tried we the British sent in the army and shot the protesters! "
What do i expect ? For Spains government not to act like fucking dictators and sent in the police to beat the fucking shit out of innocent people that only want to vote
They could allow a binding referendum to take place and put their case to the people as to why to stay part of Spain but no they shat out and just remember Rajoy said no referendum took place on the 1st Oct 2017 well why fucking sent police then to beat the shit out of innocent people
Just remember the EU referendum was a non binding referendum same as the Catalan one did the EU sent police in to beat us voters ?
If you think thats ok well that makes you no better that Rajoy |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We do like France and Spain.
Spain ? Really the way Spains government is treating Catalan people right now ?
Yes Spain is beautiful and the people can be really nice but you move their and you then have to deal with the reborn Franco Rajoy government dictators that willingly sent Spains police to beat the shit out of innocent Calalan people and lock up people who gave the Catalans a democratic choice on a referendum no matter which side your on with Calatan independence its wrong to brat the shit out of innocent people who only wanted to vote
What do you mean?
Spain had a region declare UDI - what do you expect?
When the Irish tried we the British sent in the army and shot the protesters!
What do i expect ? For Spains government not to act like fucking dictators and sent in the police to beat the fucking shit out of innocent people that only want to vote
They could allow a binding referendum to take place and put their case to the people as to why to stay part of Spain but no they shat out and just remember Rajoy said no referendum took place on the 1st Oct 2017 well why fucking sent police then to beat the shit out of innocent people
Just remember the EU referendum was a non binding referendum same as the Catalan one did the EU sent police in to beat us voters ?
If you think thats ok well that makes you no better that Rajoy "
Your missing the point completely.
Catalan is located in the sovereign state of Spain. The UK is a sovereign state which happens to be an EU member. The EU don't control (despite what some think) over our parliament. Hence when leave voted out nothing to do with EU control. The example of Ireland was a direct comparison of a UDI declaration we went in with Brute force. The panning government acted proportionally to an illegal internal problem. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"We do like France and Spain.
Spain ? Really the way Spains government is treating Catalan people right now ?
Yes Spain is beautiful and the people can be really nice but you move their and you then have to deal with the reborn Franco Rajoy government dictators that willingly sent Spains police to beat the shit out of innocent Calalan people and lock up people who gave the Catalans a democratic choice on a referendum no matter which side your on with Calatan independence its wrong to brat the shit out of innocent people who only wanted to vote
What do you mean?
Spain had a region declare UDI - what do you expect?
When the Irish tried we the British sent in the army and shot the protesters!
What do i expect ? For Spains government not to act like fucking dictators and sent in the police to beat the fucking shit out of innocent people that only want to vote
They could allow a binding referendum to take place and put their case to the people as to why to stay part of Spain but no they shat out and just remember Rajoy said no referendum took place on the 1st Oct 2017 well why fucking sent police then to beat the shit out of innocent people
Just remember the EU referendum was a non binding referendum same as the Catalan one did the EU sent police in to beat us voters ?
If you think thats ok well that makes you no better that Rajoy
Your missing the point completely.
Catalan is located in the sovereign state of Spain. The UK is a sovereign state which happens to be an EU member. The EU don't control (despite what some think) over our parliament. Hence when leave voted out nothing to do with EU control. The example of Ireland was a direct comparison of a UDI declaration we went in with Brute force. The panning government acted proportionally to an illegal internal problem. "
So you believe its ok to beat the living shit out of innocent people who only wanted to vote ? |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
Let me ask you this Swingatcapagde
If Scotland used UDI to leave the UK would you be happy to see English police sent to Scotland to beat the shit out of Scottish voters or try to lock up elected Scottish politicians? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Given that the shape of Brexit was unknown at the time of the referendum, should we have another referendum when we know what the final deal is? I know most are bitterly opposed to this, but it does have a certain logic. "
No other referendum on EU
Im afraid you listen too much to Tony Blair
.
"Tony Blair demands second Brexit vote and ‘Remain will win"
don't mention weapons of mass destruction |
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"Bring the real referendum on, where there's complete honesty. Who could possibly have an issue with that?  "
Complete honesty and Tony Blair are completely alien to each other hence the nickname Tony Bliar.
#weaponsofmassdestruction |
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"Given that the shape of Brexit was unknown at the time of the referendum, should we have another referendum when we know what the final deal is? I know most are bitterly opposed to this, but it does have a certain logic.
No other referendum on EU
Im afraid you listen too much to Tony Blair
.
"Tony Blair demands second Brexit vote and ‘Remain will win"
don't mention weapons of mass destruction "
I seem to recall that leave didn't want Tony to help with the first referendum let alone a second!! He was a liability then and he's still one now!;-) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Let me ask you this Swingatcapagde
If Scotland used UDI to leave the UK would you be happy to see English police sent to Scotland to beat the shit out of Scottish voters or try to lock up elected Scottish politicians? "
What do you mean by 'Scotland'? The majority of Scots voted to remain part of the United Kingdom.
And why would it just be English police beating the shit out Scottish voters and not the PSNI or Welsh police too? |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"Let me ask you this Swingatcapagde
If Scotland used UDI to leave the UK would you be happy to see English police sent to Scotland to beat the shit out of Scottish voters or try to lock up elected Scottish politicians?
What do you mean by 'Scotland'? The majority of Scots voted to remain part of the United Kingdom.
And why would it just be English police beating the shit out Scottish voters and not the PSNI or Welsh police too?"
Have the Scottish people no right to change their minds now ?
Interesting so would force people into keeping their no vote ? Lol
Things have changed big time and in a democracy you are allowed to change your mind
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"YouGov Poll states 70% of UK population now accept Brexit
mentioned on ITV this morning.
.
the 30% who don't accept, need to get over it and face reality"
Would that be the reality that the Leave Campaign clearly articulated during the campaign?
No, thought not  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Let me ask you this Swingatcapagde
If Scotland used UDI to leave the UK would you be happy to see English police sent to Scotland to beat the shit out of Scottish voters or try to lock up elected Scottish politicians?
What do you mean by 'Scotland'? The majority of Scots voted to remain part of the United Kingdom.
And why would it just be English police beating the shit out Scottish voters and not the PSNI or Welsh police too?
Have the Scottish people no right to change their minds now ?
Interesting so would force people into keeping their no vote ? Lol
Things have changed big time and in a democracy you are allowed to change your mind
"
I agree, things have changed. But the result of the referendum still stands. In a democracy you accept the result (unless you are exempt from this because of the Treaty of Arbroath and because you are a sovereign person).
Now can you answer the second question about the police please. |
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It was just an advisory referendum, without the clear details of what it would entail - and certainly there was no understanding about what the final EU/UK negotiated offer would be. People and politicians should therefore be able to take an educated decision, with the available facts known, before the next decision is taken. |
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"It was just an advisory referendum, without the clear details of what it would entail - and certainly there was no understanding about what the final EU/UK negotiated offer would be. People and politicians should therefore be able to take an educated decision, with the available facts known, before the next decision is taken. "
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
This is why the UK government wont be able to refuse a Section 30 order for a Scottish independence referendum
As the EU referendum as just an advisory referendum so if The UK government block a referendum on Scottish independence and Scotland have an advisory referendum they UK government have no leg to stand on to ignore a yes vote when they are willing to take the whole UK out of the EU
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Your logical is incredible!
People on here are saying that the Brexit referendum was advisory only. I.e. the Government are not bound by it.
You now say that if Scotland had another independence referendum, that would be advisory only, just like the Brexit one, but that the Government cannot ignore it.
So you are saying that can ignore an advisory referendum on Brexit, but cannot ignore an advisory referendum on Scottish independence!
How can that be?
Either all referendums are advisory only, in which case they are pointless, or they are binding.
The fact is the Brexit referendum was binding, not advisory and that is why Article 50 was triggered.
Had the Scots voted for independence, then they would have got it.
Can you imagine Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon, allowing the people who post on this thread to argue - oh, your referendum was advisory, just like Brexit was. The UK government can ignore it, just like the Brexit referendum?
Never in a million years would Salmond and Sturgeon agreed that it was advisory only! |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
Agan say the UK government refuse a section 30 order that is nothing and i mean nothibg stopping Scotland having a referendum on independence without Westminsters permission
If a yes vote is returned as i said the UK government have no leg to stand on
If they think its ok to take the whole UK out of the EU non binding referendum
Then will look dumb as fuck If they try and ignore A non binding referendum on Scottish independence
The best option is to have a legally binding referendum Scottish independence and state their case for the UK union things have changed and thats why they sre shitting themselves they 100% know there is no voters changed their minds since 2014 can affold to lose them and wave cheerio to their we shit UK union lol
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I think Jacob Rees Mogg hit the nail on the head recently when he described those calling for a 2nd referendum as cave dwellers and summed it up perfectly when he said remainers who want a 2nd referendum are just like the Japanese WW2 soldiers who refused to come out of the jungle and accept defeat after the war had ended. They stayed in the jungle thinking they could still win even though the war was over and the rest of the world had moved on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think Jacob Rees Mogg hit the nail on the head recently when he described those calling for a 2nd referendum as cave dwellers and summed it up perfectly when he said remainers who want a 2nd referendum are just like the Japanese WW2 soldiers who refused to come out of the jungle and accept defeat after the war had ended. They stayed in the jungle thinking they could still win even though the war was over and the rest of the world had moved on. "
Instead of making such comments and creating more division he should be seeking ways of bringing the country together. Pontificating as he does, in his privileged manor he only winds it up. If brexit fails - and nobody knows what will happen - it's all guesswork at the moment, then the division is only going to get worse! Remainers will hold a grudge against leavers for their "suffering", and some leavers will rebell because "navarna" hasn't been delivered. I fear rioting on the streets like we saw in the race riots of the 1970's. So yes you had better hope brexit is a success and a quick one too as some people want instant results! |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"
Instead of making such comments and creating more division he should be seeking ways of bringing the country together."
Replace Rees Mogg with Anna Soubry , Tony Blair, Vince Cable, Lord Adonis, Nicola Sturgeon, Kier Starmer, to name but a few, and the divisiveness can also be seen on the remain side. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Instead of making such comments and creating more division he should be seeking ways of bringing the country together.
Replace Rees Mogg with Anna Soubry , Tony Blair, Vince Cable, Lord Adonis, Nicola Sturgeon, Kier Starmer, to name but a few, and the divisiveness can also be seen on the remain side."
Yes no easy fix despite what people say - the country IS divided because the result was so close. Whoever won we needed a divisive victory - we got a fudge! |
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"
Instead of making such comments and creating more division he should be seeking ways of bringing the country together.
Replace Rees Mogg with Anna Soubry , Tony Blair, Vince Cable, Lord Adonis, Nicola Sturgeon, Kier Starmer, to name but a few, and the divisiveness can also be seen on the remain side."
The key differences being that one side is forcing something that qualitatively is seen by them as wrong, by a government that hasn't been open and inclusive upon a highly complex matter. The concept of leave or remain may appear simple but the finer points of how it's done are not and could have massive differences in their results. Using Henry VIII powers to open the potential for widespread legal changes for whatever the government may want, without appropriate public review, is just one aspect of what can be criticized as a very inappropriate way to do something, at odds with democratic process.
As no one knew what the facts were about leaving the EU until the exit deal is clear and agreed, simple common sense would shout that such a life changing decision be done with public and parliamentary voting. More so, when the last general election in the UK which was called several years ahead of its schedule, failed to give the conservative party their own majority, pushing them to do an expensive deal with the DUP. |
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"
Instead of making such comments and creating more division he should be seeking ways of bringing the country together.
Replace Rees Mogg with Anna Soubry , Tony Blair, Vince Cable, Lord Adonis, Nicola Sturgeon, Kier Starmer, to name but a few, and the divisiveness can also be seen on the remain side.
The key differences being that one side is forcing something that qualitatively is seen by them as wrong, by a government that hasn't been open and inclusive upon a highly complex matter. The concept of leave or remain may appear simple but the finer points of how it's done are not and could have massive differences in their results. Using Henry VIII powers to open the potential for widespread legal changes for whatever the government may want, without appropriate public review, is just one aspect of what can be criticized as a very inappropriate way to do something, at odds with democratic process.
As no one knew what the facts were about leaving the EU until the exit deal is clear and agreed, simple common sense would shout that such a life changing decision be done with public and parliamentary voting. More so, when the last general election in the UK which was called several years ahead of its schedule, failed to give the conservative party their own majority, pushing them to do an expensive deal with the DUP. "
What the last general election revealed was that parties with Brexit manifestos got a combined 85% share of the vote!
Parties with Remain manifestos only got 15% share of the vote. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"
Instead of making such comments and creating more division he should be seeking ways of bringing the country together.
Replace Rees Mogg with Anna Soubry , Tony Blair, Vince Cable, Lord Adonis, Nicola Sturgeon, Kier Starmer, to name but a few, and the divisiveness can also be seen on the remain side.
The key differences being that one side is forcing something that qualitatively is seen by them as wrong, by a government that hasn't been open and inclusive upon a highly complex matter. The concept of leave or remain may appear simple but the finer points of how it's done are not and could have massive differences in their results. Using Henry VIII powers to open the potential for widespread legal changes for whatever the government may want, without appropriate public review, is just one aspect of what can be criticized as a very inappropriate way to do something, at odds with democratic process.
As no one knew what the facts were about leaving the EU until the exit deal is clear and agreed, simple common sense would shout that such a life changing decision be done with public and parliamentary voting. More so, when the last general election in the UK which was called several years ahead of its schedule, failed to give the conservative party their own majority, pushing them to do an expensive dheal with the DUP. "
And there you go...."I'm not accepting the result" because it wasn't a big enough majority". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Given that the shape of Brexit was unknown at the time of the referendum, should we have another referendum when we know what the final deal is? I know most are bitterly opposed to this, but it does have a certain logic. "
We knew what “the shape of Brexit” would be. And we still know what the shape of Brexit will be. So I don’t see what different another referendum will make.
Although they say that more younger people will vote remain who could now vote as they turned 18,and some older people who are no longer able to vote, would likely have voted leave. So it might make for a different result, but who knows!
But the shape of Brexit won’t have an impact on the outcome.
Besides reversing the decision isn’t a magic fix that will reverse the damage already done. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think Jacob Rees Mogg hit the nail on the head recently when he described those calling for a 2nd referendum as cave dwellers and summed it up perfectly when he said remainers who want a 2nd referendum are just like the Japanese WW2 soldiers who refused to come out of the jungle and accept defeat after the war had ended. They stayed in the jungle thinking they could still win even though the war was over and the rest of the world had moved on. "
That’s an excellent analogy. Britain has lost. And we may as well live in the woods. Haha |
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"I think Jacob Rees Mogg hit the nail on the head recently when he described those calling for a 2nd referendum as cave dwellers and summed it up perfectly when he said remainers who want a 2nd referendum are just like the Japanese WW2 soldiers who refused to come out of the jungle and accept defeat after the war had ended. They stayed in the jungle thinking they could still win even though the war was over and the rest of the world had moved on.
That’s an excellent analogy. Britain has lost. And we may as well live in the woods. Haha"
No, remainers lost and the ones calling for a 2nd referendum are the ones still living in the woods refusing to accept defeat like Japanese soldiers after WW2. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think Jacob Rees Mogg hit the nail on the head recently when he described those calling for a 2nd referendum as cave dwellers and summed it up perfectly when he said remainers who want a 2nd referendum are just like the Japanese WW2 soldiers who refused to come out of the jungle and accept defeat after the war had ended. They stayed in the jungle thinking they could still win even though the war was over and the rest of the world had moved on.
That’s an excellent analogy. Britain has lost. And we may as well live in the woods. Haha
No, remainers lost and the ones calling for a 2nd referendum are the ones still living in the woods refusing to accept defeat like Japanese soldiers after WW2. "
wow wow wow
nothing wrong with living in the woods
this fella here voted leave and enjoys some good times in the woods, rather enjoy the woods, freedom & outdoors to city living, crowded tube trains and human disease |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
Genuine question as i dont live in England
Has there been any evidence thats shows England have either changed their minds on brexit or wanting another EU referendum ?
Same for Wales ? |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"It's a nationwide (except Northern Ireland) pole, as I said. Some areas will have been more than 70%, some less. The average is 70%."
Do you believe the majority of Scotland do not want brexit ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Given that the shape of Brexit was unknown at the time of the referendum, should we have another referendum when we know what the final deal is? I know most are bitterly opposed to this, but it does have a certain logic. "
No. |
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It's not a question of individual areas. In fact in the YouGOv poll, less people in London were in favour of Brexit, than in Scotland, and London is the capital of the UK. It's about the UK as a whole, and as a whole, the UK voted to leave, and in the latest poll, as a whole, 70% of the UK are happy with Brexit. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"It's not a question of individual areas. In fact in the YouGOv poll, less people in London were in favour of Brexit, than in Scotland, and London is the capital of the UK. It's about the UK as a whole, and as a whole, the UK voted to leave, and in the latest poll, as a whole, 70% of the UK are happy with Brexit."
Do you believe 62% majority of Scotland is hapoy with brexit ? |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"I don't know. I haven't done a survey. The point is, it doesn't matter."
You dont need a survey
In 2016 Scottish voters voted 62% majority to remain in the EU
So we in Scotland dont matter as long as you get your brexit and damage Scotlands economy thats all fine
Do you care that regions in England will face damage ? |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"The UK as a whole voted for Brexit. Scotland voted to stay in the UK, so Scotland voted for Brexit.
"
Wow so you believe Scotland didnt vote by a 62% majority to remain in the EU ?
Remember in 2014 that Scotland was told that the only way to keep our EU citizenship was to vote no to independence and stay in the UK
Do you believe no voters have no right to change their minds and the question on independence asked again ? |
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No. It's not about changing minds every 5 minutes. A referendum is held and the result is acted upon.
You have to draw the line somewhere. Otherwise you would have local elections, General Elections, County Council Elections, European Parliament elections every week.
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"No. It's not about changing minds every 5 minutes. A referendum is held and the result is acted upon.
You have to draw the line somewhere. Otherwise you would have local elections, General Elections, County Council Elections, European Parliament elections every week.
"
Democracy is not a one off event and things change and people are allowed to change their minds
Did you forget the people of Scotland gave the Scottish government a mandate and the Scottish parilament also gave the Scottish government a mandate for an independence referendum
But then again it appears you dont believe in democracy its all about brexit for you no matter tge cost even if it damages Scotland you are willing to accept it
What gets me is you leave voters want the UK to be independent but you will do everything to stop Scotland being independent go figure eh lol |
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And who voted against Scottish Independence? Only the Scottish people.
And how can it be undemocratic to have a referendum less than 2 years ago, and just because people like you will not accept the result, you want another one.
What would you do if that one also voted for Brexit? Would you want another one in another year?
What would you have said if the 2016 had voted for Remain, and I wanted another referendum? Would you say that was a good idea. And then I want one next year, next month, next week.
It was billed as a one off referendum, just like the Scottish one.
They both produced results and those results are to be abided by.
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"And who voted against Scottish Independence? Only the Scottish people.
And how can it be undemocratic to have a referendum less than 2 years ago, and just because people like you will not accept the result, you want another one.
What would you do if that one also voted for Brexit? Would you want another one in another year?
What would you have said if the 2016 had voted for Remain, and I wanted another referendum? Would you say that was a good idea. And then I want one next year, next month, next week.
It was billed as a one off referendum, just like the Scottish one.
They both produced results and those results are to be abided by.
"
Wrong lol English Welsh NI and non UK citizens did also vote in the 2014 referendum lol
There clearly is so little you know about Scotland
Another wee trick unionists try but they clearly do not think about it see if Scotland didnt respect the 2014 independence referendum then Scottish government would have just ignored that vote and called for independence but they didnt Scotland is not independent right now lol
Again in a democracy things change and people are allowed to change their minds you clearly have a problem with that lol
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"No one who was not a Scottish resident could vote in it. That's the point."
So you think is ok for people living outside of Scotland to get a say in Scottish independence ?
So explain to me how the 2014 Scottish independence referendum has not been respected ? Last time i checked Scotland is not independent did you think about that ? Lol |
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By *VBethTV/TS
over a year ago
Chester |
Once in a generation so let's be kind and have one every 20 years. Because the thing is, those on the losing side want another referendum. Those on the winning side don't. Let's reverse the situation and say Scotland votes for independence and gets it. Would all those wanting to be part of the union get another vote in 2 or 3 years?
Nope.... Would they EVER get another vote?
Nope.
So the argument is, we want another vote because we lost this one..... Sounds like the EU referendum. We demand to keep having votes until we win.
If it works one way, it works the other way. Wait for 20 years to pass and try again. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"Yes, of course I do. Why shouldn't the rest of the UK get to vote on the breakup of the UK? It was scandalous that that decision was solely in the hands of the Scots."
Right do you believe people living outside of England should get a say on say English independence if England ever had a referendum on ?
Thats shocking that you actually believe people living outside Scotland should get to dictate if Scotland should become an independent country or not
Sorry but its not upto you thats for the people living in Scotland to decide |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"Once in a generation so let's be kind and have one every 20 years. Because the thing is, those on the losing side want another referendum. Those on the winning side don't. Let's reverse the situation and say Scotland votes for independence and gets it. Would all those wanting to be part of the union get another vote in 2 or 3 years?
Nope.... Would they EVER get another vote?
Nope.
So the argument is, we want another vote because we lost this one..... Sounds like the EU referendum. We demand to keep having votes until we win.
If it works one way, it works the other way. Wait for 20 years to pass and try again. "
Sorry but what is it about people living outside of Scotland that love dictating terms to when Scotland can have another independence referendum
Has it ever crossed your mind this is why so many in Scotland want to get away from this UK when there is people taking enjoyment of telling another country what we can and cannot do ?
Out it this way you aint helping selling the UK as a caring union its more like enjoyment that the UK is a dictatorship thats works for one country and the 3 other countries as colonies |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"Well had the rest of the UK got to vote, then you would have got your independence. That was the mistake that was made by Scotland."
You didnt answer this question....... do you believe people living outside of England should get a say on say English independence if England ever had a referendum on ? |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"English independence from what?"
From the UK
Or if you wont answer that
Maybe try answering this
Do you believe people living outside of England should decide whats best for England ? |
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If only England could be independent!
I told you before what my view was. If any part of the UK wants independence, then that is the break-up of the UK, and all parts of the UK should get to vote on that. |
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By *VBethTV/TS
over a year ago
Chester |
"Once in a generation so let's be kind and have one every 20 years. Because the thing is, those on the losing side want another referendum. Those on the winning side don't. Let's reverse the situation and say Scotland votes for independence and gets it. Would all those wanting to be part of the union get another vote in 2 or 3 years?
Nope.... Would they EVER get another vote?
Nope.
So the argument is, we want another vote because we lost this one..... Sounds like the EU referendum. We demand to keep having votes until we win.
If it works one way, it works the other way. Wait for 20 years to pass and try again.
Sorry but what is it about people living outside of Scotland that love dictating terms to when Scotland can have another independence referendum
Has it ever crossed your mind this is why so many in Scotland want to get away from this UK when there is people taking enjoyment of telling another country what we can and cannot do ?
Out it this way you aint helping selling the UK as a caring union its more like enjoyment that the UK is a dictatorship thats works for one country and the 3 other countries as colonies "
Not dictating but asking what if Scotland had got independence. Would those who wanted to remain in the UK be given a referendum on rejoining in 3 or 4 years?
Simply that. Would that happen?
If not then why should you get one in such a short time simply because the last one didn't go your way?
Those who lose their referenda seem to demand another go, those who win don't. The silly thing is, it would be the same the other way round and kinky would be on here griping about people trying to have another referendum after a few years because he'd got his result and didn't want it changed. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"If only England could be independent!
I told you before what my view was. If any part of the UK wants independence, then that is the break-up of the UK, and all parts of the UK should get to vote on that."
So you would be more than happy for people living outside of England telling you whats best for England ? Lol |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"Once in a generation so let's be kind and have one every 20 years. Because the thing is, those on the losing side want another referendum. Those on the winning side don't. Let's reverse the situation and say Scotland votes for independence and gets it. Would all those wanting to be part of the union get another vote in 2 or 3 years?
Nope.... Would they EVER get another vote?
Nope.
So the argument is, we want another vote because we lost this one..... Sounds like the EU referendum. We demand to keep having votes until we win.
If it works one way, it works the other way. Wait for 20 years to pass and try again.
Sorry but what is it about people living outside of Scotland that love dictating terms to when Scotland can have another independence referendum
Has it ever crossed your mind this is why so many in Scotland want to get away from this UK when there is people taking enjoyment of telling another country what we can and cannot do ?
Out it this way you aint helping selling the UK as a caring union its more like enjoyment that the UK is a dictatorship thats works for one country and the 3 other countries as colonies
Not dictating but asking what if Scotland had got independence. Would those who wanted to remain in the UK be given a referendum on rejoining in 3 or 4 years?
Simply that. Would that happen?
If not then why should you get one in such a short time simply because the last one didn't go your way?
Those who lose their referenda seem to demand another go, those who win don't. The silly thing is, it would be the same the other way round and kinky would be on here griping about people trying to have another referendum after a few years because he'd got his result and didn't want it changed. "
Oh you clearly dont get how it works lol
Right say Scotland got independence first off parties would need to register as offical parties not made up parties posing as branch offices lol
Then if a party out in their manifesto to rejoin in a union with England and win the election then yes they wiuld have a mandate for a referendum in rejoin in a UK union thats democracy correct ?
Democracy is not a one off event |
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"If only England could be independent!
I told you before what my view was. If any part of the UK wants independence, then that is the break-up of the UK, and all parts of the UK should get to vote on that.
It's about the break up of the UK, not just England. That's the point.
So you would be more than happy for people living outside of England telling you whats best for England ? Lol"
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"It's how the whole world works."
So you would be happy to see people from out of England telling you wants best for England ?
Strange as seen as your brexit voter you would say you dont like the EU telling the Uzk whats best for the UK that correct ? Lmao maybe its late at night and you are thinking lol |
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You're the one who wants independence but wants to be back in the EU.
I simply told you that any break up of the UK has to involve every part of it being involved in the vote.
And you are just speaking hypothetically, because the most important part of the UK is England. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
Take note people you wonder why there is so many of us in Scotland that want the UK to break apart
Take a look above at LeedsAndy comment claiming the " the most important country in the UK is England" and he is not the only one believe me in England that thinks that sadly
Clearly dont care about Scotland , Wales and NI merely see us as colonies of England for them to rule over |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"I didn't say that I didn't care. You said that. I said that England is the most important part of the UK, and it is. Economically, politically, population wise. By any accepted measure it is.
"
So you believe is the England is the most important country in the UK therefore you do not vaule Scotland ,Wales and NI
Told you people LeedsAndy is not the only one there is somone else on these very forums that thinks because England has the biggest population that England should get the biggest say on how the UK is run
Anyone still wondering why we in Scotland want to get the hell away from the UK union
Some think is ok for Westminster / English rule over Scotland Wales NI like we are just wee colonies of England to boss about
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Take note people you wonder why there is so many of us in Scotland that want the UK to break apart
Take a look above at LeedsAndy comment claiming the " the most important country in the UK is England" and he is not the only one believe me in England that thinks that sadly
Clearly dont care about Scotland , Wales and NI merely see us as colonies of England for them to rule over"
sooner Scotland wins Independence the better,
.
March for Independence - Glasgow
.
11.00am Sat 5 May 2018
.
March for Scottish independence from Kelvingroove Park to George Square
.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Aberdeen Independence Movement Conference
Sun, Apr 8 at 11:00pm - Mon, Apr 9 at 6:00pm GMT Politics & Society
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Yes Trance-Formation
Starts Apr 28th at 8:00 AM GMT
Independence Live
Melrose Ave, Holytown, Motherwell |
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"
Instead of making such comments and creating more division he should be seeking ways of bringing the country together.
Replace Rees Mogg with Anna Soubry , Tony Blair, Vince Cable, Lord Adonis, Nicola Sturgeon, Kier Starmer, to name but a few, and the divisiveness can also be seen on the remain side.
The key differences being that one side is forcing something that qualitatively is seen by them as wrong, by a government that hasn't been open and inclusive upon a highly complex matter. The concept of leave or remain may appear simple but the finer points of how it's done are not and could have massive differences in their results. Using Henry VIII powers to open the potential for widespread legal changes for whatever the government may want, without appropriate public review, is just one aspect of what can be criticized as a very inappropriate way to do something, at odds with democratic process.
As no one knew what the facts were about leaving the EU until the exit deal is clear and agreed, simple common sense would shout that such a life changing decision be done with public and parliamentary voting. More so, when the last general election in the UK which was called several years ahead of its schedule, failed to give the conservative party their own majority, pushing them to do an expensive dheal with the DUP.
And there you go...."I'm not accepting the result" because it wasn't a big enough majority"."
You missed the point entirely - it's the qualitative aspects of the negotiated deal and how the government implements the changes that will have very different results for you in the UK. The use of Henry VIII powers alone should be alarming. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Take note people you wonder why there is so many of us in Scotland that want the UK to break apart
Take a look above at LeedsAndy comment claiming the " the most important country in the UK is England" and he is not the only one believe me in England that thinks that sadly
Clearly dont care about Scotland , Wales and NI merely see us as colonies of England for them to rule over
sooner Scotland wins Independence the better,
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March for Independence - Glasgow
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11.00am Sat 5 May 2018
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March for Scottish independence from Kelvingroove Park to George Square
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"
Indeed |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"makes me wish people in Wales were more behind an independent Wales
instead of naming the Severn Bridge the Prince of Wales bridge "
Those lovely English people gave you a prince and a bridge.They didnt give a prince to the Scottish .. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's how the whole world works.
So you would be happy to see people from out of England telling you wants best for England ?
Strange as seen as your brexit voter you would say you dont like the EU telling the Uzk whats best for the UK that correct ? Lmao maybe its late at night and you are thinking lol"
Good point Kinky...
But strange you raised this when you want to leave the UK, where you have devolved powers, only to join the EU which is on course to become one big federal state. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's how the whole world works.
So you would be happy to see people from out of England telling you wants best for England ?
Strange as seen as your brexit voter you would say you dont like the EU telling the Uzk whats best for the UK that correct ? Lmao maybe its late at night and you are thinking lol
Good point Kinky...
But strange you raised this when you want to leave the UK, where you have devolved powers, only to join the EU which is on course to become one big federal state."
But is it? This is just another misnomer like Turkey is joining soon. Whilst there will be greater intergration in some area's the 27 will not give away their sovereignty. If nothing else brexit has opened eyes to this. Remember the 27 are the real controllers they just have the EU as a "management team". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's how the whole world works.
So you would be happy to see people from out of England telling you wants best for England ?
Strange as seen as your brexit voter you would say you dont like the EU telling the Uzk whats best for the UK that correct ? Lmao maybe its late at night and you are thinking lol
Good point Kinky...
But strange you raised this when you want to leave the UK, where you have devolved powers, only to join the EU which is on course to become one big federal state.
But is it? This is just another misnomer like Turkey is joining soon. Whilst there will be greater intergration in some area's the 27 will not give away their sovereignty. If nothing else brexit has opened eyes to this. Remember the 27 are the real controllers they just have the EU as a "management team"."
Sovereignty is the full right and power of a governing body over itself, without any interference from outside sources or bodies.
The 27 have already given away their sovereignty. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"It's how the whole world works.
So you would be happy to see people from out of England telling you wants best for England ?
Strange as seen as your brexit voter you would say you dont like the EU telling the Uzk whats best for the UK that correct ? Lmao maybe its late at night and you are thinking lol
Good point Kinky...
But strange you raised this when you want to leave the UK, where you have devolved powers, only to join the EU which is on course to become one big federal state.
But is it? This is just another misnomer like Turkey is joining soon. Whilst there will be greater intergration in some area's the 27 will not give away their sovereignty. If nothing else brexit has opened eyes to this. Remember the 27 are the real controllers they just have the EU as a "management team".
Sovereignty is the full right and power of a governing body over itself, without any interference from outside sources or bodies.
The 27 have already given away their sovereignty."
By that definition we should not be in NATO.
Brexiters need to understand that the world revolves around international aggreements which, by default involve compromises for the better good of all involved.
We were a part of the EU and were therefore materially involved in the decision making of the EU. It is the height of ignorance to think that the EU is a distant behemoth that gets off on unilaterally telling countries what to do. It makes decisions for the betterment of itself and it’s members. |
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Why don’t we keep having referendums until we get the result that the remainers want. Everyone who voted to leave are ill educated racist little Englanders so ban them from having the vote and there’ll be no more problem. Simples |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"Why don’t we keep having referendums until we get the result that the remainers want. Everyone who voted to leave are ill educated racist little Englanders so ban them from having the vote and there’ll be no more problem. Simples "
Some clearly dont get democracy lol
If a party put a referendum in a manifesto and the voters for it then yes that democracy in action and that mandate from people
If people dont want a referendum they wont vote for one simple |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why don’t we keep having referendums until we get the result that the remainers want. Everyone who voted to leave are ill educated racist little Englanders so ban them from having the vote and there’ll be no more problem. Simples
Some clearly dont get democracy lol
If a party put a referendum in a manifesto and the voters for it then yes that democracy in action and that mandate from people
"
That is exactly what happened in 2014. The SNP had a majority and there was a referendum.
Scottish voters decided to stay in the UK.
You cannot keep having referendums until you get the result you want. Unless of course you are the EU! |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"Why don’t we keep having referendums until we get the result that the remainers want. Everyone who voted to leave are ill educated racist little Englanders so ban them from having the vote and there’ll be no more problem. Simples
Some clearly dont get democracy lol
If a party put a referendum in a manifesto and the voters for it then yes that democracy in action and that mandate from people
That is exactly what happened in 2014. The SNP had a majority and there was a referendum.
Scottish voters decided to stay in the UK.
You cannot keep having referendums until you get the result you want. Unless of course you are the EU!"
Did it escape your memory that SNP were elected in their manifesto thats a mandate from the voters in Scotland
And ontop of that the Scottish parilament voted and passed on the Section 30 order thats democratic abd another mandate
Maybe if you want independence off the table then those unionist branches in Scotland should do alot better and action win an election in Scotland eh ? Lol
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Why don’t we keep having referendums until we get the result that the remainers want. Everyone who voted to leave are ill educated racist little Englanders so ban them from having the vote and there’ll be no more problem. Simples "
The political and demographic environment is constantly changing and it is dumb fuckery of the highest order to ignore the changing world and press on regardless. Both sides need to abandon ideology and we all need to start dealing with facts. |
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By *VBethTV/TS
over a year ago
Chester |
"Exactly so keep having a referendums then and we wouldn’t need politians. We’d even save money on there wages. Everyones happy. Simples"
We could have 30 or 40 per day covering every matter of government and entirely disband the civil service and government too. |
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"Exactly so keep having a referendums then and we wouldn’t need politians. We’d even save money on there wages. Everyones happy. Simples
We could have 30 or 40 per day covering every matter of government and entirely disband the civil service and government too. "
More money saving I like it |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
Alot of very anti democratic people in afraid the UK is On its last legs
Oh well lol dont expect people that believe in Scottish independence or a United Ireland to just give up of reaching that goal lol |
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"Alot of very anti democratic people in afraid the UK is On its last legs
Oh well lol dont expect people that believe in Scottish independence or a United Ireland to just give up of reaching that goal lol"
Democracy rules!!!! Down with the facists!!!! |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"Alot of very anti democratic people in afraid the UK is On its last legs
Oh well lol dont expect people that believe in Scottish independence or a United Ireland to just give up of reaching that goal lol
Democracy rules!!!! Down with the facists!!!!"
Interesting who is facists ? |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Alot of very anti democratic people in afraid the UK is On its last legs
Oh well lol dont expect people that believe in Scottish independence or a United Ireland to just give up of reaching that goal lol"
oh we believe in democracy.... it very much was democracy in action when the people of scotland voted against independence in the referendum,
which was described by the then first minster of socland, and his deputy first minster as a "once in a generation" vote....
or is it only "anti-democratic" when a vote doesn't go your way?
so... when said first minster and deputy first minister both said it would be a once in a generation vote... should we not believe that they would not keep there word? |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"Alot of very anti democratic people in afraid the UK is On its last legs
Oh well lol dont expect people that believe in Scottish independence or a United Ireland to just give up of reaching that goal lol
oh we believe in democracy.... it very much was democracy in action when the people of scotland voted against independence in the referendum,
which was described by the then first minster of socland, and his deputy first minster as a "once in a generation" vote....
or is it only "anti-democratic" when a vote doesn't go your way?
so... when said first minster and deputy first minister both said it would be a once in a generation vote... should we not believe that they would not keep there word? "
Your talking to thin air |
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"Alot of very anti democratic people in afraid the UK is On its last legs
Oh well lol dont expect people that believe in Scottish independence or a United Ireland to just give up of reaching that goal lol
oh we believe in democracy.... it very much was democracy in action when the people of scotland voted against independence in the referendum,
which was described by the then first minster of socland, and his deputy first minster as a "once in a generation" vote....
or is it only "anti-democratic" when a vote doesn't go your way?
so... when said first minster and deputy first minister both said it would be a once in a generation vote... should we not believe that they would not keep there word?
Your talking to thin air "
Everyone has the right to express there opinion no matter if u agree or not. That’s democracy folks. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Alot of very anti democratic people in afraid the UK is On its last legs
Oh well lol dont expect people that believe in Scottish independence or a United Ireland to just give up of reaching that goal lol
oh we believe in democracy.... it very much was democracy in action when the people of scotland voted against independence in the referendum,
which was described by the then first minster of socland, and his deputy first minster as a "once in a generation" vote....
or is it only "anti-democratic" when a vote doesn't go your way?
so... when said first minster and deputy first minister both said it would be a once in a generation vote... should we not believe that they would not keep there word?
Your talking to thin air
Everyone has the right to express there opinion no matter if u agree or not. That’s democracy folks."
exactly... thats the beauty of democracy...
i think its only the anti-democratic that get upset anyway.... |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"Alot of very anti democratic people in afraid the UK is On its last legs
Oh well lol dont expect people that believe in Scottish independence or a United Ireland to just give up of reaching that goal lol
oh we believe in democracy.... it very much was democracy in action when the people of scotland voted against independence in the referendum,
which was described by the then first minster of socland, and his deputy first minster as a "once in a generation" vote....
or is it only "anti-democratic" when a vote doesn't go your way?
so... when said first minster and deputy first minister both said it would be a once in a generation vote... should we not believe that they would not keep there word?
Your talking to thin air
Everyone has the right to express there opinion no matter if u agree or not. That’s democracy folks."
Am not saying they dont
But Fabio knows why i wont talk to him so he is talking to thin air |
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