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A biological event
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
All this Nationalist, jingoistic nonsense that is flying around at the moment is really getting my goat.
I hear phrases like "Proud to be born in England, proud Scot, great pride in being born in Yorkshire etc etc"
How is it possible to be proud of something that you had no say in, no control over and which was simply a natural biological event? Is all of this misplaced pride something that needs shaking out of people on account of the fact that it is at least partially, if not wholly, to blame for so much conflict and aggression in the world? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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England is full of strong regional identities . Scousers are very proud and independent and Geordies the same.Yorkshiremen and the Cornish see themselves as different.The West country of Devon Dorset and Somerset are different again.Bromies and yam yams are different and proud.
It always has been.Only the home counties and the southeast are much of muchness.Although being cockney is almost a visible difference.  |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"England is full of strong regional identities . Scousers are very proud and independent and Geordies the same.Yorkshiremen and the Cornish see themselves as different.The West country of Devon Dorset and Somerset are different again.Bromies and yam yams are different and proud.
It always has been.Only the home counties and the southeast are much of muchness.Although being cockney is almost a visible difference. "
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"God knows... I'm sick of hearing this I'm a European bollocks though.
Which god would that be dave the Abrahamic one?"
.
Noo ...Robinsons God of beer or maybe Bacchus |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"God knows... I'm sick of hearing this I'm a European bollocks though.
Which god would that be dave the Abrahamic one?.
Noo ...Robinsons God of beer or maybe Bacchus "
Ahh Bacchus now that's a proper god i can worship.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"God knows... I'm sick of hearing this I'm a European bollocks though.
Which god would that be dave the Abrahamic one?.
Noo ...Robinsons God of beer or maybe Bacchus
Ahh Bacchus now that's a proper god i can worship.."
.
He's as good as any of the rest and no false promises of sobriety and living forever  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"All this Nationalist, jingoistic nonsense that is flying around at the moment is really getting my goat.
I hear phrases like "Proud to be born in England, proud Scot, great pride in being born in Yorkshire etc etc"
How is it possible to be proud of something that you had no say in, no control over and which was simply a natural biological event? Is all of this misplaced pride something that needs shaking out of people on account of the fact that it is at least partially, if not wholly, to blame for so much conflict and aggression in the world?"
Guess that's why Sean Connery, Sir Michael Caine, Victoria Beckham, Liam Neeson, Sharon Osbourne, Mick Jagger, Bono and many others moved on |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
I've never been particularly tied to my region of birth. I would never say anything along the lines of "people from East Anglia are the best people in the world". I associate more with people who share my values, than with where they were born. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've never been particularly tied to my region of birth. I would never say anything along the lines of "people from East Anglia are the best people in the world". I associate more with people who share my values, than with where they were born. "
Don't you have friends from you place of birth? any friends? even one? |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"Too hot are you not proud if we’re you come from your roots your heritage your history ? "
I don’t understand how it is possible to be proud of something that was a miraculous feat of nature over which I had no control or influence whatsoever. I can be proud of achievements, earnings and things that I have made happen and for which other people have also done.
It is just not possible to be proud of something that you haven’t had any part in other than to build a wall around your “luck.” |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Do you go around telling Muslims or Catholics to stop being proud about it as well?.
What about Jews... Sorry about that Holocaust thing and all but I hope your not proud about being a Jew |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I can take pride in some things I have done?
Can I take pride in the achievements of others, dead or alive?
Sometimes, I can recognise some amazing feats and discoveries.
Can I be proud of people I have never met? No, that is not pride, that is admiration.
I like where I live, but I do not feel in any sense superior to anyone else who inhabits this planet, nor do I consider my place of birth to be inhabited by people who are superior. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I've never been particularly tied to my region of birth. I would never say anything along the lines of "people from East Anglia are the best people in the world". I associate more with people who share my values, than with where they were born.
Don't you have friends from you place of birth? any friends? even one?"
I have friends all over the world. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've never been particularly tied to my region of birth. I would never say anything along the lines of "people from East Anglia are the best people in the world". I associate more with people who share my values, than with where they were born.
Don't you have friends from you place of birth? any friends? even one?
I have friends all over the world."
but none from your home town 
bullied at school? |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"Do you go around telling Muslims or Catholics to stop being proud about it as well?.
What about Jews... Sorry about that Holocaust thing and all but I hope your not proud about being a Jew "
What is the relevance of this? I am simply saying that I don’t understand the concept of being proud of something that was completely out of my control.
From a human perspective I think it is nuts and I think it may be the root of a great deal of hatred and conflict in the world. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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you say a biological event has no bearing on identifying with something ... does that mean you don't care less about your family ... where do you draw the line of blonging out of interest? mum and dad? aunts & uncles? cousins? none of the above? do 57 million english speakers dilute your shared inherited cultural communication through artistic expression? elucidate your thoughts that prompted your rant |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"you say a biological event has no bearing on identifying with something ... does that mean you don't care less about your family ... where do you draw the line of blonging out of interest? mum and dad? aunts & uncles? cousins? none of the above? do 57 million english speakers dilute your shared inherited cultural communication through artistic expression? elucidate your thoughts that prompted your rant"
You need to read what I said, and note that it was not a rant. It stemmed from a Facebook thread over the weekend on a Manchester Group which got to over 700 contributions before it got too heated and the Mods deleted it. It started with a woman saying how “proud” she was to be a Mancunian and was more proud to be a Mancunian than British. There followed countless posts by people who were “proud” scousers, Yorkshire born and bred, Lancashire born and bred, Aussie and proud etc. Then it started to degenerate as Lancashire folk attacked Yprkshire folk, Mancunians attacked Scousers etc etc. Some people (including me) tried to moderate the discussion and question if the word “proud” really was the right word but by then it was too late - the thread had evolved into multiple sub threads and quite a lot of aggression.
I was thinking about the thread for the last couple of days and it struck me as how it was a natural, but really bizarre concept to be “proud” of something that you had no control or influence over and for which you had no sense of achievement and did nothing to make happen. We can accept as humans that we can be proud of achievements and success generated by the efforts of ourselves, family, friends and even people who we don’t know - but who we can identify with. For example - we are all proud of Mo Farrah for what he achieved for Britain because he worked hard and we identify with his success in the name of our country.
I just think that having pride in your place of birth is a pretty perverse concept when you have done nothing to earn that pride other than being the result of a biological event. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"you say a biological event has no bearing on identifying with something ... does that mean you don't care less about your family ... where do you draw the line of blonging out of interest? mum and dad? aunts & uncles? cousins? none of the above? do 57 million english speakers dilute your shared inherited cultural communication through artistic expression? elucidate your thoughts that prompted your rant
You need to read what I said, and note that it was not a rant. It stemmed from a Facebook thread over the weekend on a Manchester Group which got to over 700 contributions before it got too heated and the Mods deleted it. It started with a woman saying how “proud” she was to be a Mancunian and was more proud to be a Mancunian than British. There followed countless posts by people who were “proud” scousers, Yorkshire born and bred, Lancashire born and bred, Aussie and proud etc. Then it started to degenerate as Lancashire folk attacked Yprkshire folk, Mancunians attacked Scousers etc etc. Some people (including me) tried to moderate the discussion and question if the word “proud” really was the right word but by then it was too late - the thread had evolved into multiple sub threads and quite a lot of aggression.
I was thinking about the thread for the last couple of days and it struck me as how it was a natural, but really bizarre concept to be “proud” of something that you had no control or influence over and for which you had no sense of achievement and did nothing to make happen. We can accept as humans that we can be proud of achievements and success generated by the efforts of ourselves, family, friends and even people who we don’t know - but who we can identify with. For example - we are all proud of Mo Farrah for what he achieved for Britain because he worked hard and we identify with his success in the name of our country.
I just think that having pride in your place of birth is a pretty perverse concept when you have done nothing to earn that pride other than being the result of a biological event."
try answering the questions i asked |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"you say a biological event has no bearing on identifying with something ... does that mean you don't care less about your family ... where do you draw the line of blonging out of interest? mum and dad? aunts & uncles? cousins? none of the above? do 57 million english speakers dilute your shared inherited cultural communication through artistic expression? elucidate your thoughts that prompted your rant
You need to read what I said, and note that it was not a rant. It stemmed from a Facebook thread over the weekend on a Manchester Group which got to over 700 contributions before it got too heated and the Mods deleted it. It started with a woman saying how “proud” she was to be a Mancunian and was more proud to be a Mancunian than British. There followed countless posts by people who were “proud” scousers, Yorkshire born and bred, Lancashire born and bred, Aussie and proud etc. Then it started to degenerate as Lancashire folk attacked Yprkshire folk, Mancunians attacked Scousers etc etc. Some people (including me) tried to moderate the discussion and question if the word “proud” really was the right word but by then it was too late - the thread had evolved into multiple sub threads and quite a lot of aggression.
I was thinking about the thread for the last couple of days and it struck me as how it was a natural, but really bizarre concept to be “proud” of something that you had no control or influence over and for which you had no sense of achievement and did nothing to make happen. We can accept as humans that we can be proud of achievements and success generated by the efforts of ourselves, family, friends and even people who we don’t know - but who we can identify with. For example - we are all proud of Mo Farrah for what he achieved for Britain because he worked hard and we identify with his success in the name of our country.
I just think that having pride in your place of birth is a pretty perverse concept when you have done nothing to earn that pride other than being the result of a biological event.
try answering the questions i asked "
Try reading the OP and not making up your own interpretation.
No rant, no mention of not identifying, no mention of family.
If you feel like answering - don’t bother. It seems like you are just spoiling for an argument and I am not biting anymore. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Do you go around telling Muslims or Catholics to stop being proud about it as well?.
What about Jews... Sorry about that Holocaust thing and all but I hope your not proud about being a Jew
What is the relevance of this? I am simply saying that I don’t understand the concept of being proud of something that was completely out of my control.
From a human perspective I think it is nuts and I think it may be the root of a great deal of hatred and conflict in the world. "
.
Well your born an actual Jew you don't have any choice in it.
Catholics and Muslims I'll grant you have a choice but there still born Catholic and Muslim, all sorts of people are born things not of they're choosing, like disabled people, are we now saying they can't be proud of being born and living life as disabled or a Jew.
I was born poor to a poor family and I'm immensely proud of that fact or at least I've grown to become proud of it  |
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"Do you go around telling Muslims or Catholics to stop being proud about it as well?.
What about Jews... Sorry about that Holocaust thing and all but I hope your not proud about being a Jew
What is the relevance of this? I am simply saying that I don’t understand the concept of being proud of something that was completely out of my control.
From a human perspective I think it is nuts and I think it may be the root of a great deal of hatred and conflict in the world. "
I think you're oversimplifying a little.
I agree your place of birth is pure luck, and being proud of that chance is misplaced.
However, being proud to have an association with a place (or identity) is different.
The issue comes when that pride turns into a sense of superiority, which can be the result of too strong an association with one particular place or identify.
If you travel or mix with others you'll often start to see commonalities and associate positively with them too.
However you can still take pride in those new associations, as well as your existing ones.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"you say a biological event has no bearing on identifying with something ... does that mean you don't care less about your family ... where do you draw the line of blonging out of interest? mum and dad? aunts & uncles? cousins? none of the above? do 57 million english speakers dilute your shared inherited cultural communication through artistic expression? elucidate your thoughts that prompted your rant
You need to read what I said, and note that it was not a rant. It stemmed from a Facebook thread over the weekend on a Manchester Group which got to over 700 contributions before it got too heated and the Mods deleted it. It started with a woman saying how “proud” she was to be a Mancunian and was more proud to be a Mancunian than British. There followed countless posts by people who were “proud” scousers, Yorkshire born and bred, Lancashire born and bred, Aussie and proud etc. Then it started to degenerate as Lancashire folk attacked Yprkshire folk, Mancunians attacked Scousers etc etc. Some people (including me) tried to moderate the discussion and question if the word “proud” really was the right word but by then it was too late - the thread had evolved into multiple sub threads and quite a lot of aggression.
I was thinking about the thread for the last couple of days and it struck me as how it was a natural, but really bizarre concept to be “proud” of something that you had no control or influence over and for which you had no sense of achievement and did nothing to make happen. We can accept as humans that we can be proud of achievements and success generated by the efforts of ourselves, family, friends and even people who we don’t know - but who we can identify with. For example - we are all proud of Mo Farrah for what he achieved for Britain because he worked hard and we identify with his success in the name of our country.
I just think that having pride in your place of birth is a pretty perverse concept when you have done nothing to earn that pride other than being the result of a biological event.
try answering the questions i asked
Try reading the OP and not making up your own interpretation.
No rant, no mention of not identifying, no mention of family.
If you feel like answering - don’t bother. It seems like you are just spoiling for an argument and I am not biting anymore."
you have a little rant and then get asked to clarify and then you have a pissy little hisssy fit  |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"Do you go around telling Muslims or Catholics to stop being proud about it as well?.
What about Jews... Sorry about that Holocaust thing and all but I hope your not proud about being a Jew
What is the relevance of this? I am simply saying that I don’t understand the concept of being proud of something that was completely out of my control.
From a human perspective I think it is nuts and I think it may be the root of a great deal of hatred and conflict in the world.
I think you're oversimplifying a little.
I agree your place of birth is pure luck, and being proud of that chance is misplaced.
However, being proud to have an association with a place (or identity) is different.
The issue comes when that pride turns into a sense of superiority, which can be the result of too strong an association with one particular place or identify.
If you travel or mix with others you'll often start to see commonalities and associate positively with them too.
However you can still take pride in those new associations, as well as your existing ones.
"
I agree with everything you said. Being proud of the association that you have with your town because the town and it’s people have achieved things is fine. Being proud to be “a Mancunian” for example and that pride manifesting itself into a sense of superiority over someone from Liverpool just because of an accident of birth is wrong. It could be town to town, region to region and/or country to country. It happens a lot and it is wrong. This is my point. |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"Do you go around telling Muslims or Catholics to stop being proud about it as well?.
What about Jews... Sorry about that Holocaust thing and all but I hope your not proud about being a Jew
What is the relevance of this? I am simply saying that I don’t understand the concept of being proud of something that was completely out of my control.
From a human perspective I think it is nuts and I think it may be the root of a great deal of hatred and conflict in the world. .
Well your born an actual Jew you don't have any choice in it.
Catholics and Muslims I'll grant you have a choice but there still born Catholic and Muslim, all sorts of people are born things not of they're choosing, like disabled people, are we now saying they can't be proud of being born and living life as disabled or a Jew.
I was born poor to a poor family and I'm immensely proud of that fact or at least I've grown to become proud of it "
Why are you “proud” that you were born poor to a poor family? What did you do to engender such pride in that outcome? You did nothing and it was a freak of nature as to why it happened. You may as well be proud of a rainy day, a bit of fog or the fact that this year the Robins laid three eggs instead of two. You had no control over it and therefore had nothing to be proud of. Respecting how your family coped is one thing, having pride how you got by as a poor child is something to be proud of - but how can you be proud that you were born poor? I just don’t get that.
Perhaps it is the inappropriate use and human acceptance of “proud” / “pride” etc that is wrong? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"All this Nationalist, jingoistic nonsense that is flying around at the moment is really getting my goat.
I hear phrases like "Proud to be born in England, proud Scot, great pride in being born in Yorkshire etc etc"
How is it possible to be proud of something that you had no say in, no control over and which was simply a natural biological event? Is all of this misplaced pride something that needs shaking out of people on account of the fact that it is at least partially, if not wholly, to blame for so much conflict and aggression in the world?"
This argument could be applied to many things in life such as looks , intelligence or talent.
You are proud of the country or region from which you are from not just because of the fact that you were born there but also because of the efforts which you or your family put in to both develop the region and keep the community spirit alive .
Each country should have its own unique identity and I would expect residents to be proud of their native country and strive to promote it . |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Do you go around telling Muslims or Catholics to stop being proud about it as well?.
What about Jews... Sorry about that Holocaust thing and all but I hope your not proud about being a Jew "
Or gay, or black. Or any other colour or sexual orientation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"All this Nationalist, jingoistic nonsense that is flying around at the moment is really getting my goat.
I hear phrases like "Proud to be born in England, proud Scot, great pride in being born in Yorkshire etc etc"
How is it possible to be proud of something that you had no say in, no control over and which was simply a natural biological event? Is all of this misplaced pride something that needs shaking out of people on account of the fact that it is at least partially, if not wholly, to blame for so much conflict and aggression in the world?"
But you do have control you grow to have control
I was born in a reasonably small village, you go to primary school in the village, you learn and you gain friendship with everyone
growing up in a village with a population of 1000 people where you get to know everyone and everyone knows you
.
Then you go to secondary school which is in a larger town and all villages round about go to this school, you gain friendship and trust of all from different villages and your friendship expands, you visit these villages to meet with your new friends and at a young age you are learning to explore life whilst knowing everyone within a 15 -20 mile radius
This is a good start on life, its like a cheers bar, except its not just the bar its a full radius of villages and friends which gives you confidence in life.
okay you have no say in "birth" but its what you do after that counts, gaining friends, learning, traveling and returning to the place you were born if you wish to do so
If you have many friends from that place, why would you not want to return?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Do you go around telling Muslims or Catholics to stop being proud about it as well?.
What about Jews... Sorry about that Holocaust thing and all but I hope your not proud about being a Jew
What is the relevance of this? I am simply saying that I don’t understand the concept of being proud of something that was completely out of my control.
From a human perspective I think it is nuts and I think it may be the root of a great deal of hatred and conflict in the world. .
Well your born an actual Jew you don't have any choice in it.
Catholics and Muslims I'll grant you have a choice but there still born Catholic and Muslim, all sorts of people are born things not of they're choosing, like disabled people, are we now saying they can't be proud of being born and living life as disabled or a Jew.
I was born poor to a poor family and I'm immensely proud of that fact or at least I've grown to become proud of it
Why are you “proud” that you were born poor to a poor family? What did you do to engender such pride in that outcome? You did nothing and it was a freak of nature as to why it happened. You may as well be proud of a rainy day, a bit of fog or the fact that this year the Robins laid three eggs instead of two. You had no control over it and therefore had nothing to be proud of. Respecting how your family coped is one thing, having pride how you got by as a poor child is something to be proud of - but how can you be proud that you were born poor? I just don’t get that.
Perhaps it is the inappropriate use and human acceptance of “proud” / “pride” etc that is wrong?"
.
Because I am who I am today due to things out of my control at birth, same way I'm proud to say I'm a Mancunian(despite not being born but raised there).
Being born on a foggy day is just that, it doesn't induce character like heritage or birth place does, people tend to be more proud of their birth place the harder it is to overcome it, there's very few people proud of being raised in Mayfair for the same reason |
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