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So GB has one of the most expensive degrees
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So youngsters of today who go to uni and pay £9k p.a. for their degree are also paying interest at 6%!
Those of an older age (championed by some on here), who plead the kids never had it so good, Got their degrees free - actually they got a grant!
So we need bright people for the future but are we stopping opportunity or killing the dream of the future? |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"So youngsters of today who go to uni and pay £9k p.a. for their degree are also paying interest at 6%!
Those of an older age (championed by some on here), who plead the kids never had it so good, Got their degrees free - actually they got a grant!
So we need bright people for the future but are we stopping opportunity or killing the dream of the future?"
My son is in his first year of his Degree.
His study fees are over £9k per year. For that, he gets 13 hours of tuition a week!
Speaking from a personal view, these fees need to be investigated. The interest rate should be dropped instantly, or capped at BOE rates.
But.....I do think that the education and degrees gained here do hold weight and are to be trusted. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Personally I think that there are a lot of waste of time degrees out there.
"
That’s part of the review. A full time degree in say Chemistry, engineering or medicine certainly justifies the fees.... but a degree in “Beckham Studies” or whatever....sorry just a joke.
Interesting Martin Lewis show last week...focussed on student “debt” and how the interest etc is pretty much ‘notional’.
Students have NO upfront costs. Only start paying back in April after they finish and pay just 9% of earnings above £25k (from this April).
My youngest daughter graduated last June with a masters in chemistry. She got a job @£31k. Her total debt is around £68k (four year degree). She will start paying back @ £540 per year (£45/month) ...hardly going to break the bank!
At that rate...in 30 years she will pay back £16200 in total. The rest is then wiped!
If fees were £3million a year and interest rates 100%..... she would still just pay back £16200 in total. (Anyone whose wages are below £25k will pay NOTHING back...ever)
As Martin Lewis said..... the fees and interest rates are irrelevant.....unless you are earning £100k plus you will be virtually unaffected by the interest. Only the very rich, high earners will pay their loans back in full..... so it is designed to be aimed at the rich and not the poor....
Wether any fees are right or wrong is a point for debate...but these above are the facts on which to base your judgements. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Personally I think that there are a lot of waste of time degrees out there.
That’s part of the review. A full time degree in say Chemistry, engineering or medicine certainly justifies the fees.... but a degree in “Beckham Studies” or whatever....sorry just a joke.
Interesting Martin Lewis show last week...focussed on student “debt” and how the interest etc is pretty much ‘notional’.
Students have NO upfront costs. Only start paying back in April after they finish and pay just 9% of earnings above £25k (from this April).
My youngest daughter graduated last June with a masters in chemistry. She got a job @£31k. Her total debt is around £68k (four year degree). She will start paying back @ £540 per year (£45/month) ...hardly going to break the bank!
At that rate...in 30 years she will pay back £16200 in total. The rest is then wiped!
If fees were £3million a year and interest rates 100%..... she would still just pay back £16200 in total. (Anyone whose wages are below £25k will pay NOTHING back...ever)
As Martin Lewis said..... the fees and interest rates are irrelevant.....unless you are earning £100k plus you will be virtually unaffected by the interest. Only the very rich, high earners will pay their loans back in full..... so it is designed to be aimed at the rich and not the poor....
Wether any fees are right or wrong is a point for debate...but these above are the facts on which to base your judgements."
That's very interesting indeed, but there will be people in denial who only think the rich are given money taken from the poor. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I am all for degrees for engineering science ect but when it comes to students going to university and getting loans to study things like performing arts  sorry but NO.
Also if someone studies and goes into the field they actually studied for such as useful stuff science,medical engineering ect and stays in that field for at least 5 years then I don’t think they should have to pay it off!
This would cut down on a lot of th toy town corses that seem to spring up |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am all for degrees for engineering science ect but when it comes to students going to university and getting loans to study things like performing arts sorry but NO.
Also if someone studies and goes into the field they actually studied for such as useful stuff science,medical engineering ect and stays in that field for at least 5 years then I don’t think they should have to pay it off!
This would cut down on a lot of th toy town corses that seem to spring up "
Toy town courses should have to be paid in full before starting. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am all for degrees for engineering science ect but when it comes to students going to university and getting loans to study things like performing arts sorry but NO.
Also if someone studies and goes into the field they actually studied for such as useful stuff science,medical engineering ect and stays in that field for at least 5 years then I don’t think they should have to pay it off!
This would cut down on a lot of th toy town corses that seem to spring up
Toy town courses should have to be paid in full before starting."
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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The point is every uni has plumbed for the maximum charge there is no variation in fees. As stated some degrees are more worthwhile than others. The 6% interest rate charge when the BoE rate is 0.5%, mortgage rates are at 2-3% - is it fair? The point about repayment is a fair point but older generations were "paid" to go to uni - under the grant system. So what is fair and equitable? |
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"My son is in his first year of his Degree.
His study fees are over £9k per year. For that, he gets 13 hours of tuition a week!
Speaking from a personal view, these fees need to be investigated. The interest rate should be dropped instantly, or capped at BOE rates.
But.....I do think that the education and degrees gained here do hold weight and are to be trusted."
But then there would be no PROFIT for fat bankers in education, and we all know the universal Tory truth, if there is no PROFIT in it for bankers and the super rich who can afford offshore tax avoidance trusts then it is not worth having. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
But then there would be no PROFIT for fat bankers in education, and we all know the universal Tory truth, if there is no PROFIT in it for bankers and the super rich who can afford offshore tax avoidance trusts then it is not worth having. "
If only a small amount ends up being repayed where is the profit ? |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
If GB stands for Great Britain in this title thread
Then surely you would know in Scotland students do not pay for any fees
What you mean is England and Wales really no worries correcting that bit of misinformation lol |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"If GB stands for Great Britain in this title thread
Then surely you would know in Scotland students do not pay for any fees
What you mean is England and Wales really no worries correcting that bit of misinformation lol"
As you well know, some students in Scotland pay fees.
|
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"If GB stands for Great Britain in this title thread
Then surely you would know in Scotland students do not pay for any fees
What you mean is England and Wales really no worries correcting that bit of misinformation lol
As you well know, some students in Scotland pay fees.
"
First of where is the thanks for correcting the misinformation wouldnt want people getting the wrong idea now that Scotland being lumped in this issue of fees when fees in Scotland are free
Now to address your wee comment yes students outside of Scotland that come here to student have to pay as the problem would be they would be taking up places of Scottish students
And if Scottish students move to England to study in uni they have to pay for the fees for their education let it sink in
Every child / student has the right to an education free of course not for mommy and daddy to pay their kids education or worse case that kid having debts set on them for life
|
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"If GB stands for Great Britain in this title thread
Then surely you would know in Scotland students do not pay for any fees
What you mean is England and Wales really no worries correcting that bit of misinformation lol
As you well know, some students in Scotland pay fees.
First of where is the thanks for correcting the misinformation wouldnt want people getting the wrong idea now that Scotland being lumped in this issue of fees when fees in Scotland are free
Now to address your wee comment yes students outside of Scotland that come here to student have to pay as the problem would be they would be taking up places of Scottish students
And if Scottish students move to England to study in uni they have to pay for the fees for their education let it sink in
Every child / student has the right to an education free of course not for mommy and daddy to pay their kids education or worse case that kid having debts set on them for life
"
And what about all the non-UK EU students that get free university education.
Assuming the costs are coming out of general taxation, and assuming that you work and pay tax, you are paying for Polish, Bulgarian, French students to be educated. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So youngsters of today who go to uni and pay £9k p.a. for their degree are also paying interest at 6%!
Those of an older age (championed by some on here), who plead the kids never had it so good, Got their degrees free - actually they got a grant!
So we need bright people for the future but are we stopping opportunity or killing the dream of the future?"
Im looking into doing a degree in photography, starting August, I have a keen interest in photography and now that I am retired, have time on my hands and its FREE LEARNING, why not.
Highlands & Islands University |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"If GB stands for Great Britain in this title thread
Then surely you would know in Scotland students do not pay for any fees
What you mean is England and Wales really no worries correcting that bit of misinformation lol
As you well know, some students in Scotland pay fees.
First of where is the thanks for correcting the misinformation wouldnt want people getting the wrong idea now that Scotland being lumped in this issue of fees when fees in Scotland are free
Now to address your wee comment yes students outside of Scotland that come here to student have to pay as the problem would be they would be taking up places of Scottish students
And if Scottish students move to England to study in uni they have to pay for the fees for their education let it sink in
Every child / student has the right to an education free of course not for mommy and daddy to pay their kids education or worse case that kid having debts set on them for life
And what about all the non-UK EU students that get free university education.
Assuming the costs are coming out of general taxation, and assuming that you work and pay tax, you are paying for Polish, Bulgarian, French students to be educated."
To be classed as a Scottish student you have to have lived in Scotland for 3 years
EU students have to pay upto 1,820 per year of their course and SSSA is a loan so they are not getting it for free and its based on your income
Thank your welcome
Lets now get back to the problem GB was in the title thread and in Scotland fees free so its wrong information
What the title thread should say is in England and Wales correct ?
Its not a good look trying to lump Scotland into the mess England and Wales have created |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If GB stands for Great Britain in this title thread
Then surely you would know in Scotland students do not pay for any fees
What you mean is England and Wales really no worries correcting that bit of misinformation lol
As you well know, some students in Scotland pay fees.
First of where is the thanks for correcting the misinformation wouldnt want people getting the wrong idea now that Scotland being lumped in this issue of fees when fees in Scotland are free
Now to address your wee comment yes students outside of Scotland that come here to student have to pay as the problem would be they would be taking up places of Scottish students
And if Scottish students move to England to study in uni they have to pay for the fees for their education let it sink in
Every child / student has the right to an education free of course not for mommy and daddy to pay their kids education or worse case that kid having debts set on them for life
And what about all the non-UK EU students that get free university education.
Assuming the costs are coming out of general taxation, and assuming that you work and pay tax, you are paying for Polish, Bulgarian, French students to be educated.
To be classed as a Scottish student you have to have lived in Scotland for 3 years
EU students have to pay upto 1,820 per year of their course and SSSA is a loan so they are not getting it for free and its based on your income
Thank your welcome
Lets now get back to the problem GB was in the title thread and in Scotland fees free so its wrong information
What the title thread should say is in England and Wales correct ?
Its not a good look trying to lump Scotland into the mess England and Wales have created "
Yes correct but I am not looking to do a degree in either England or Wales,
Highland Islands University of Scotland will do me, 20 mins drive and free of charge |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"If GB stands for Great Britain in this title thread
Then surely you would know in Scotland students do not pay for any fees
What you mean is England and Wales really no worries correcting that bit of misinformation lol
As you well know, some students in Scotland pay fees.
First of where is the thanks for correcting the misinformation wouldnt want people getting the wrong idea now that Scotland being lumped in this issue of fees when fees in Scotland are free
Now to address your wee comment yes students outside of Scotland that come here to student have to pay as the problem would be they would be taking up places of Scottish students
And if Scottish students move to England to study in uni they have to pay for the fees for their education let it sink in
Every child / student has the right to an education free of course not for mommy and daddy to pay their kids education or worse case that kid having debts set on them for life
And what about all the non-UK EU students that get free university education.
Assuming the costs are coming out of general taxation, and assuming that you work and pay tax, you are paying for Polish, Bulgarian, French students to be educated.
To be classed as a Scottish student you have to have lived in Scotland for 3 years
EU students have to pay upto 1,820 per year of their course and SSSA is a loan so they are not getting it for free and its based on your income
Thank your welcome
Lets now get back to the problem GB was in the title thread and in Scotland fees free so its wrong information
What the title thread should say is in England and Wales correct ?
Its not a good look trying to lump Scotland into the mess England and Wales have created "
Are you entirely sure of those facts? |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"If GB stands for Great Britain in this title thread
Then surely you would know in Scotland students do not pay for any fees
What you mean is England and Wales really no worries correcting that bit of misinformation lol
As you well know, some students in Scotland pay fees.
First of where is the thanks for correcting the misinformation wouldnt want people getting the wrong idea now that Scotland being lumped in this issue of fees when fees in Scotland are free
Now to address your wee comment yes students outside of Scotland that come here to student have to pay as the problem would be they would be taking up places of Scottish students
And if Scottish students move to England to study in uni they have to pay for the fees for their education let it sink in
Every child / student has the right to an education free of course not for mommy and daddy to pay their kids education or worse case that kid having debts set on them for life
And what about all the non-UK EU students that get free university education.
Assuming the costs are coming out of general taxation, and assuming that you work and pay tax, you are paying for Polish, Bulgarian, French students to be educated.
To be classed as a Scottish student you have to have lived in Scotland for 3 years
EU students have to pay upto 1,820 per year of their course and SSSA is a loan so they are not getting it for free and its based on your income
Thank your welcome
Lets now get back to the problem GB was in the title thread and in Scotland fees free so its wrong information
What the title thread should say is in England and Wales correct ?
Its not a good look trying to lump Scotland into the mess England and Wales have created
Are you entirely sure of those facts?"
Yup look up (SSSA) no i aint doing your hamework learn a thing or two today lol |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"If GB stands for Great Britain in this title thread
Then surely you would know in Scotland students do not pay for any fees
What you mean is England and Wales really no worries correcting that bit of misinformation lol
As you well know, some students in Scotland pay fees.
First of where is the thanks for correcting the misinformation wouldnt want people getting the wrong idea now that Scotland being lumped in this issue of fees when fees in Scotland are free
Now to address your wee comment yes students outside of Scotland that come here to student have to pay as the problem would be they would be taking up places of Scottish students
And if Scottish students move to England to study in uni they have to pay for the fees for their education let it sink in
Every child / student has the right to an education free of course not for mommy and daddy to pay their kids education or worse case that kid having debts set on them for life
And what about all the non-UK EU students that get free university education.
Assuming the costs are coming out of general taxation, and assuming that you work and pay tax, you are paying for Polish, Bulgarian, French students to be educated.
To be classed as a Scottish student you have to have lived in Scotland for 3 years
EU students have to pay upto 1,820 per year of their course and SSSA is a loan so they are not getting it for free and its based on your income
Thank your welcome
Lets now get back to the problem GB was in the title thread and in Scotland fees free so its wrong information
What the title thread should say is in England and Wales correct ?
Its not a good look trying to lump Scotland into the mess England and Wales have created
Are you entirely sure of those facts?
Yup look up (SSSA) no i aint doing your hamework learn a thing or two today lol "
The Scottish Schools Snowsports Association?
Do you not mean SAAS? |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"If GB stands for Great Britain in this title thread
Then surely you would know in Scotland students do not pay for any fees
What you mean is England and Wales really no worries correcting that bit of misinformation lol
As you well know, some students in Scotland pay fees.
First of where is the thanks for correcting the misinformation wouldnt want people getting the wrong idea now that Scotland being lumped in this issue of fees when fees in Scotland are free
Now to address your wee comment yes students outside of Scotland that come here to student have to pay as the problem would be they would be taking up places of Scottish students
And if Scottish students move to England to study in uni they have to pay for the fees for their education let it sink in
Every child / student has the right to an education free of course not for mommy and daddy to pay their kids education or worse case that kid having debts set on them for life
And what about all the non-UK EU students that get free university education.
Assuming the costs are coming out of general taxation, and assuming that you work and pay tax, you are paying for Polish, Bulgarian, French students to be educated.
To be classed as a Scottish student you have to have lived in Scotland for 3 years
EU students have to pay upto 1,820 per year of their course and SSSA is a loan so they are not getting it for free and its based on your income
Thank your welcome
Lets now get back to the problem GB was in the title thread and in Scotland fees free so its wrong information
What the title thread should say is in England and Wales correct ?
Its not a good look trying to lump Scotland into the mess England and Wales have created
Are you entirely sure of those facts?
Yup look up (SSSA) no i aint doing your hamework learn a thing or two today lol
The Scottish Schools Snowsports Association?
Do you not mean SAAS? "
Yes sorry
Thank you for correcting me
I wonder if you or others will say than k you for correcting that the title name should really read England and Wales and not Scotland |
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
Don't listen to Kinky, they're wrong yet again. EU students fees are paid by the Scottish government. The students don't pay anything.
Basically tax payers are subsidising wealthy EU students to the tune of tens of millions. And they do tend to be wealthy, studesnts from poorer backgrounds generally can't afford to study abroad. |
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"If only a small amount ends up being repayed where is the profit ?"
You clearly do not know how the system works...
The debt is not written off...
An individuals debt is written off, but the Treasury through the SLC pays and that means the tax payer pays. Of course the SLC sell off the 'loan book' to financial institutions at a discount, which makes it nice little annual earner for the banks as the SLC underwrites those loans sold off, while at the same time Chief Exec and Board of the SLC get to trousers a nice wedge before moving to the very financial institutions they have been selling tax payers money to at a discounted rate.
As I said it is all about profit.
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"Don't listen to Kinky, they're wrong yet again. EU students fees are paid by the Scottish government. The students don't pay anything.
Basically tax payers are subsidising wealthy EU students to the tune of tens of millions. And they do tend to be wealthy, studesnts from poorer backgrounds generally can't afford to study abroad."
Go read (SAAS ) see who is wrong then lol
Your welcome |
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"The English system of tuition fees is actually far more succesful in getting students from poorer backgrounds into higher education believe it or not."
Guess that is why every independent study I have seen or heard quoted says that social mobility is at its lowest since the end of WW2, and firmly blames it on changes to how education is funded. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"The English system of tuition fees is actually far more succesful in getting students from poorer backgrounds into higher education believe it or not.
Guess that is why every independent study I have seen or heard quoted says that social mobility is at its lowest since the end of WW2, and firmly blames it on changes to how education is funded."
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"The English system of tuition fees is actually far more succesful in getting students from poorer backgrounds into higher education believe it or not.
Guess that is why every independent study I have seen or heard quoted says that social mobility is at its lowest since the end of WW2, and firmly blames it on changes to how education is funded."
If you look at the numbers though it's far worse in Scotland. There are a few reasons for this but the main ones are
1) Free tuition fees has been funded by making cutting over 100,000 college places and also the grants available to students. The biggest barrier to students from poorer backgrounds going to higher education isn't tuition fees, it's the financial assistance available at the outset for living expenses etc
2)Because the Scottish govt only pay £1285 and £1820 for each Scottish or EU student universities are choosing to take in students from the rest of the UK or countries outwith the EU for financial reasons. Less than 1/3 of students at Edinburgh uni are Scottish for example.
I should point out, I'm not making a point that tuition fees are good or bad, merely pointing out that the system up here isn't working as it hasn't achieved it's aims |
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"I've read it, you clearly haven't. I know a lot about this subject and (yet again) you're wrong.
Read it again then lol
"
It's a simple site, I thought that even you could understand it. Clearly I was wrong. I'll help out again though. This is from the SAAS site:
https://i.gyazo.com/9f3294b2efdfe6f03be57b722232acf0.png
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"I've read it, you clearly haven't. I know a lot about this subject and (yet again) you're wrong.
Read it again then lol
It's a simple site, I thought that even you could understand it. Clearly I was wrong. I'll help out again though. This is from the SAAS site:
https://i.gyazo.com/9f3294b2efdfe6f03be57b722232acf0.png
"
EU students - For many applicants, your fee status is the same as your current country of residence
https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/university-tuition-fees/university-tuition-fees-and-financial-support/if-you-come-from-scotland/ |
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"I've read it, you clearly haven't. I know a lot about this subject and (yet again) you're wrong.
Read it again then lol
It's a simple site, I thought that even you could understand it. Clearly I was wrong. I'll help out again though. This is from the SAAS site:
https://i.gyazo.com/9f3294b2efdfe6f03be57b722232acf0.png
EU students - For many applicants, your fee status is the same as your current country of residence
https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/university-tuition-fees/university-tuition-fees-and-financial-support/if-you-come-from-scotland/"
You've been going on about the SAAS site and when I point out it shows the fees are paid suddenly you go off to a completely different site 
Even the site you link to confirms the fees are paid, lol
https://i.gyazo.com/0b2d8ae2b4de566cf3cfc2fbe625401a.png |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"I've read it, you clearly haven't. I know a lot about this subject and (yet again) you're wrong.
Read it again then lol
It's a simple site, I thought that even you could understand it. Clearly I was wrong. I'll help out again though. This is from the SAAS site:
https://i.gyazo.com/9f3294b2efdfe6f03be57b722232acf0.png
EU students - For many applicants, your fee status is the same as your current country of residence
https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/university-tuition-fees/university-tuition-fees-and-financial-support/if-you-come-from-scotland/
You've been going on about the SAAS site and when I point out it shows the fees are paid suddenly you go off to a completely different site
Even the site you link to confirms the fees are paid, lol
https://i.gyazo.com/0b2d8ae2b4de566cf3cfc2fbe625401a.png"
Is it loans ? Did you know loans have to be paid back ? Duh lol
You do know they can apply for SAAS and get a loan to pay for the fees but again a loan tou have to pay back |
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"I've read it, you clearly haven't. I know a lot about this subject and (yet again) you're wrong.
Read it again then lol
It's a simple site, I thought that even you could understand it. Clearly I was wrong. I'll help out again though. This is from the SAAS site:
https://i.gyazo.com/9f3294b2efdfe6f03be57b722232acf0.png
EU students - For many applicants, your fee status is the same as your current country of residence
https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/university-tuition-fees/university-tuition-fees-and-financial-support/if-you-come-from-scotland/
You've been going on about the SAAS site and when I point out it shows the fees are paid suddenly you go off to a completely different site
Even the site you link to confirms the fees are paid, lol
https://i.gyazo.com/0b2d8ae2b4de566cf3cfc2fbe625401a.png
Is it loans ? Did you know loans have to be paid back ? Duh lol
You do know they can apply for SAAS and get a loan to pay for the fees but again a loan tou have to pay back "
You don't apply to the SAAS for a loan to cover the fees. The fees are paid, at huge cost, by the tax payer.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37649436
Seriously, no one can be this thick.
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"Never underestimate the diversity amongst Fab users"
Hehe, True.
Well they're either lying yet again or really not the sharpest, given the evidence that has been provided. Given past evidence both are equally possible. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"I've read it, you clearly haven't. I know a lot about this subject and (yet again) you're wrong.
Read it again then lol
It's a simple site, I thought that even you could understand it. Clearly I was wrong. I'll help out again though. This is from the SAAS site:
https://i.gyazo.com/9f3294b2efdfe6f03be57b722232acf0.png
EU students - For many applicants, your fee status is the same as your current country of residence
https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/university-tuition-fees/university-tuition-fees-and-financial-support/if-you-come-from-scotland/
You've been going on about the SAAS site and when I point out it shows the fees are paid suddenly you go off to a completely different site
Even the site you link to confirms the fees are paid, lol
https://i.gyazo.com/0b2d8ae2b4de566cf3cfc2fbe625401a.png
Is it loans ? Did you know loans have to be paid back ? Duh lol
You do know they can apply for SAAS and get a loan to pay for the fees but again a loan tou have to pay back
You don't apply to the SAAS for a loan to cover the fees. The fees are paid, at huge cost, by the tax payer.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37649436
Seriously, no one can be this thick.
"
Lol again if an EU student has no lived in Scotland for 3 years then they would have to pay the fees
They then apply to SAAS if they get the money through their it could say £5,000 they that pays for their course and the rest for books clothes food somewhere to live etc
But a loan you have to pay back |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
Anyway lets get back to the main point the title name says Great Britain has one of the most expensive degrees
Not true and very misleading as i pointed out students in Scotland do not pay fees for their education
What the title should 100% say is
England and Wales has the most expensive degrees
See fixed it and you are all welcome
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"I've read it, you clearly haven't. I know a lot about this subject and (yet again) you're wrong.
Read it again then lol
It's a simple site, I thought that even you could understand it. Clearly I was wrong. I'll help out again though. This is from the SAAS site:
https://i.gyazo.com/9f3294b2efdfe6f03be57b722232acf0.png
EU students - For many applicants, your fee status is the same as your current country of residence
https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/university-tuition-fees/university-tuition-fees-and-financial-support/if-you-come-from-scotland/
You've been going on about the SAAS site and when I point out it shows the fees are paid suddenly you go off to a completely different site
Even the site you link to confirms the fees are paid, lol
https://i.gyazo.com/0b2d8ae2b4de566cf3cfc2fbe625401a.png
Is it loans ? Did you know loans have to be paid back ? Duh lol
You do know they can apply for SAAS and get a loan to pay for the fees but again a loan tou have to pay back
You don't apply to the SAAS for a loan to cover the fees. The fees are paid, at huge cost, by the tax payer.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37649436
Seriously, no one can be this thick.
Lol again if an EU student has no lived in Scotland for 3 years then they would have to pay the fees
They then apply to SAAS if they get the money through their it could say £5,000 they that pays for their course and the rest for books clothes food somewhere to live etc
But a loan you have to pay back "
Do you ever stop with the lies? The residence condition is that they've lived in the EU for the past 3 years, not Scotland
https://i.gyazo.com/1dee7f9d839a6b0299a8e898f4c6df99.png
They do not pay fees. They are charged the same amount for fees as a Scottish student (between £1285 and £1820) but the SAAS pays those, as it does for Scottish students. And neither pays it back.
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"Anyway lets get back to the main point the title name says Great Britain has one of the most expensive degrees
Not true and very misleading as i pointed out students in Scotland do not pay fees for their education
What the title should 100% say is
England and Wales has the most expensive degrees
See fixed it and you are all welcome
"
University tuition fees among most expensive in world, Theresa May says |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
You can be charged up to £1,820 per year for tuition. The Student Awards Agency for Scotland (SAAS) will pay this in full if you are eligible. You must reapply to SAAS every year of your course.
The rest of the money out of SAAS if for your food travel somewhere to stay , booke etc
Its a loan that has to be paid back . Oh and not everyone will be eligible.
So LandA those that are not eligible what will they do again ? Pay out their own money thank you very much
Now i am away from some scran |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Anyway lets get back to the main point the title name says Great Britain has one of the most expensive degrees
Not true and very misleading as i pointed out students in Scotland do not pay fees for their education
What the title should 100% say is
England and Wales has the most expensive degrees
See fixed it and you are all welcome
University tuition fees among most expensive in world, Theresa May says"
how much will they cost me Sophie? |
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"You can be charged up to £1,820 per year for tuition. The Student Awards Agency for Scotland (SAAS) will pay this in full if you are eligible. You must reapply to SAAS every year of your course.
The rest of the money out of SAAS if for your food travel somewhere to stay , booke etc
Its a loan that has to be paid back . Oh and not everyone will be eligible.
So LandA those that are not eligible what will they do again ? Pay out their own money thank you very much
Now i am away from some scran "
Food, travel, somewhere to stay, booke (??) etc are not tuition fees. Tuition fees is what the discussion is about and they are paid by the Scottish govt or to be more precise, taxpayers. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"You can be charged up to £1,820 per year for tuition. The Student Awards Agency for Scotland (SAAS) will pay this in full if you are eligible. You must reapply to SAAS every year of your course.
The rest of the money out of SAAS if for your food travel somewhere to stay , booke etc
Its a loan that has to be paid back . Oh and not everyone will be eligible.
So LandA those that are not eligible what will they do again ? Pay out their own money thank you very much
Now i am away from some scran
Food, travel, somewhere to stay, booke (??) etc are not tuition fees. Tuition fees is what the discussion is about and they are paid by the Scottish govt or to be more precise, taxpayers. "
Ok before i go get some scran answer this
For those that are not eligible what will they do again ? Pay out their own money thank you very much hehehe cheerio for now |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"Anyway lets get back to the main point the title name says Great Britain has one of the most expensive degrees
Not true and very misleading as i pointed out students in Scotland do not pay fees for their education
What the title should 100% say is
England and Wales has the most expensive degrees
See fixed it and you are all welcome
University tuition fees among most expensive in world, Theresa May says
how much will they cost me Sophie?"
Sweet fuck all lmao
Thats the answer Sophie will hopefully tell you lol |
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"You can be charged up to £1,820 per year for tuition. The Student Awards Agency for Scotland (SAAS) will pay this in full if you are eligible. You must reapply to SAAS every year of your course.
The rest of the money out of SAAS if for your food travel somewhere to stay , booke etc
Its a loan that has to be paid back . Oh and not everyone will be eligible.
So LandA those that are not eligible what will they do again ? Pay out their own money thank you very much
Now i am away from some scran
Food, travel, somewhere to stay, booke (??) etc are not tuition fees. Tuition fees is what the discussion is about and they are paid by the Scottish govt or to be more precise, taxpayers.
Ok before i go get some scran answer this
For those that are not eligible what will they do again ? Pay out their own money thank you very much hehehe cheerio for now "
So now we're down to those who aren't eligible? That's quite a shift. It's pretty much a meaningless one as well given that eligibility is so wide, it's basically that you've lived in the EU for the past 3 years and are doing higher education
https://i.gyazo.com/a85eb52150dd5078c50b44f15dfc5afa.png |
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Funny, I post saying funding education has been turned into another money making scheme for Tories and the immediate response is you cant make money when most of the debt is written off. I then explain how that is not so and how banks and bankers are dipping into the public purse and rather than considering the issue of what is really going on its time to change the subject again and point the finger at Scotland. This on the day our Tory PM who had a free education with a maintenance grant tells everyone that she does not want today's youth to have the same start in life she had! |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"Funny, I post saying funding education has been turned into another money making scheme for Tories and the immediate response is you cant make money when most of the debt is written off. I then explain how that is not so and how banks and bankers are dipping into the public purse and rather than considering the issue of what is really going on its time to change the subject again and point the finger at Scotland. This on the day our Tory PM who had a free education with a maintenance grant tells everyone that she does not want today's youth to have the same start in life she had! "
Hit the nail on the heed |
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"Funny, I post saying funding education has been turned into another money making scheme for Tories and the immediate response is you cant make money when most of the debt is written off. I then explain how that is not so and how banks and bankers are dipping into the public purse and rather than considering the issue of what is really going on its time to change the subject again and point the finger at Scotland. This on the day our Tory PM who had a free education with a maintenance grant tells everyone that she does not want today's youth to have the same start in life she had! "
And whilst doing so, announced that UK education is amongst the most expensive in the world. She didn't mention she had supported rises in tuition fees, to make it so. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
At a glance charges are:
GB/UK £9K *
USA £7.5k
FRANCE £540
GERMANY £0
So UK /US are by far much more expensive.
*special concessions for Scottish students who qualify
 |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"At a glance charges are:
GB/UK £9K *
USA £7.5k
FRANCE £540
GERMANY £0
So UK /US are by far much more expensive.
*special concessions for Scottish students who qualify
"
These are the tuition fee charges. Hopefully, the review will identify just how much the "true" cost of getting a degree is, compared to other countries. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"The English system of tuition fees is actually far more succesful in getting students from poorer backgrounds into higher education believe it or not."
When the Coalition Goverment gave permission to raise tuition funds to a maximum of £9250, they did so on the condition that Universities made the courses that these fees were applicable to, more inclusive to poorer and disadvantaged groups.
Needless to say, the Universities quickly adapted their admissions policies in order to charge the maximums. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"At a glance charges are:
GB/UK £9K *
USA £7.5k
FRANCE £540
GERMANY £0
So UK /US are by far much more expensive.
*special concessions for Scottish students who qualify
"
Should you not say " special concessions for Scottish students, and EU students who want to study in Scotland (who qualify) |
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By *VBethTV/TS
over a year ago
Chester |
Back when university was free, the percentage of people going to university was very small and the UK could afford to pay for them. It wad considered to be the place for future leaders and specialists to attend. Most people went on to apprenticeship or just a job. Even back then some people were unhappy that their taxes were funding other people's education.
With the number of people now going to university, the last projected cost I saw was in the region of £50bn to pay for everyone's fees.
I have to admit that as a taxpayer, I would resent paying for other people to get qualifications I didn't get when I was young. And I really don't believe the country could find a spare £50bn, even if we looked down the back of the treasury sofa.
So from a different point of view, why should the country pay for people to get a degree?
I admit that lumping interest in is wrong but with so many not getting a big enough income to pay their loan back, the UK still loses out on that money.
My ex had a degree in media technology. He worked in a call centre. Only a few more years to go and he won't need to pay it back. Maybe then he'll take the promotion they keep offering him and he turns down due to it taking him into repayment territory....
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"At a glance charges are:
GB/UK £9K *
USA £7.5k
FRANCE £540
GERMANY £0
So UK /US are by far much more expensive.
*special concessions for Scottish students who qualify
Should you not say " special concessions for Scottish students, and EU students who want to study in Scotland (who qualify)"
More the point why are we £9k when Germany is nil?
I happen to agree there should be a charge, but a fair one. I don't think a 6% interest rate should be charged either.
As another comment said "why should they pay tax to educate someone's kid"? So as is always the case it's not as easy as it seems to solve. There are too many "stupid" degrees which need ing out. Most people do a degree to help their careers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"At a glance charges are:
GB/UK £9K *
USA £7.5k
FRANCE £540
GERMANY £0
So UK /US are by far much more expensive.
*special concessions for Scottish students who qualify
In Germany, when it is not a State run university the costs are Euro 15'000-20'000.00, otherwise they are per year Euro 150-200.
However, many state university are "full" and do not accept students anymore; then the option is only a "private" uni but that costs.
My partner's son went through uni in Switzerland - "free" but in the end he was paying every year £13'000 for fees, books, courses and the necessary 1-year abroad.
Now to get his surgery he has to "borrow" from the bank approx. Swiss Francs 650'000 to get the equipment needed, space kitted out and other stuff.
The bank is charging him normal Swiss loan rates and 50% to be repaid back within 10 years. The rate is about 4% but no cap.
Even as dentist he will not be earning "loads" as the taxes, salaries, repayment etc will "eat" up most and he thinks that at the end per month he is getting £2'000-3'000 net a month.
No discussion of not paying back or paying a minimum there.
Also as he had to work for 2 years after the last exams at uni for the university clinic for a minimum wage.
Should you not say " special concessions for Scottish students, and EU students who want to study in Scotland (who qualify)
More the point why are we £9k when Germany is nil?
I happen to agree there should be a charge, but a fair one. I don't think a 6% interest rate should be charged either.
As another comment said "why should they pay tax to educate someone's kid"? So as is always the case it's not as easy as it seems to solve. There are too many "stupid" degrees which need ing out. Most people do a degree to help their careers. "
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"I've read it, you clearly haven't. I know a lot about this subject and (yet again) you're wrong."
And also massively off the point of the thread...focusing on one nit-picking typo. But wait...it’s kinky, so what else would we expect? |
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"Funny, I post saying funding education has been turned into another money making scheme for Tories and the immediate response is you cant make money when most of the debt is written off. I then explain how that is not so and how banks and bankers are dipping into the public purse and rather than considering the issue of what is really going on its time to change the subject again and point the finger at Scotland. This on the day our Tory PM who had a free education with a maintenance grant tells everyone that she does not want today's youth to have the same start in life she had!
Hit the nail on the heed "
Remind me again which government introduced tuition fees and student loans?.... ohh that’s it...it was LABOUR. |
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"At a glance charges are:
GB/UK £9K *
USA £7.5k
FRANCE £540
GERMANY £0
So UK /US are by far much more expensive.
*special concessions for Scottish students who qualify
Should you not say " special concessions for Scottish students, and EU students who want to study in Scotland (who qualify)
More the point why are we £9k when Germany is nil?
I happen to agree there should be a charge, but a fair one. I don't think a 6% interest rate should be charged either.
As another comment said "why should they pay tax to educate someone's kid"? So as is always the case it's not as easy as it seems to solve. There are too many "stupid" degrees which need ing out. Most people do a degree to help their careers. "
In Germany (all of) and in France (most of) the cost comes out of general taxation. The actual costs are simply hidden..... University education doesn’t magically appear for free no matter where you are....somebody has to pay for it! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"At a glance charges are:
GB/UK £9K *
USA £7.5k
FRANCE £540
GERMANY £0
So UK /US are by far much more expensive.
*special concessions for Scottish students who qualify
Should you not say " special concessions for Scottish students, and EU students who want to study in Scotland (who qualify)
More the point why are we £9k when Germany is nil?
I happen to agree there should be a charge, but a fair one. I don't think a 6% interest rate should be charged either.
As another comment said "why should they pay tax to educate someone's kid"? So as is always the case it's not as easy as it seems to solve. There are too many "stupid" degrees which need ing out. Most people do a degree to help their careers.
In Germany (all of) and in France (most of) the cost comes out of general taxation. The actual costs are simply hidden..... University education doesn’t magically appear for free no matter where you are....somebody has to pay for it!"
You are absolutely right! Nothing is free - someone foots the bill. As stated I am not advocating "free" but "fair". In the past it was "free" but in those days students were much lower and mainly the better off! What we need is a level playing field. My daughter's fees were £3k then all of a sudden £9k such a big jump. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Again I see
GB/UK get used it is only England and Wales please dont try and include Scotland in this as fees are free in Scotland"
Tuition fees are free in Scotland to those that meet the criteria.
However, university education is not "free". |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Again I see
GB/UK get used it is only England and Wales please dont try and include Scotland in this as fees are free in Scotland
Tuition fees are free in Scotland to those that meet the criteria.
However, university education is not "free"."
English , Welsh & NI student's pay fees in Scotland. But the thread is about are they fair?
Yes qualifying students living in Scotland get subsidized. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"Again I see
GB/UK get used it is only England and Wales please dont try and include Scotland in this as fees are free in Scotland
Tuition fees are free in Scotland to those that meet the criteria.
However, university education is not "free".
English , Welsh & NI student's pay fees in Scotland. But the thread is about are they fair?
Yes qualifying students living in Scotland get subsidized. "
Again In Scotland Scottish students pay no fees is free
Yes English students if they come up to Scotland pay the fees as it would be taking up place that a Scottish student may get
Anyway Scottish students have to pay fees if they stdy in England correct ?
So title of this thread is wrong its only in England and Wales stop trying to lump Scotland in this
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Again I see
GB/UK get used it is only England and Wales please dont try and include Scotland in this as fees are free in Scotland
Tuition fees are free in Scotland to those that meet the criteria.
However, university education is not "free".
English , Welsh & NI student's pay fees in Scotland. But the thread is about are they fair?
Yes qualifying students living in Scotland get subsidized.
Again In Scotland Scottish students pay no fees is free
Yes English students if they come up to Scotland pay the fees as it would be taking up place that a Scottish student may get
Anyway Scottish students have to pay fees if they stdy in England correct ?
So title of this thread is wrong its only in England and Wales stop trying to lump Scotland in this
"
It's not about "lumping " Scotland into anything. Scotland is part of the union so is grouped in whether it likes it or not. Until Scotland is an independent sovereign state recognized by the U.N. it's part of the union!
You are correct qualifying Scotish students do get "free" degrees, but as you so eloquently stated other members of the union pay fees in Scotland. It may be a small amount but they have to pay. So if an English family move to Scotland and 1 year later one of the children go to a Scottish university they would have to pay as they are non qualifying. Just used it as another example.
Therefore to conclude we are both correct. No red herrings are intended and I do feel that students should pay something - but a fair price. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've read it, you clearly haven't. I know a lot about this subject and (yet again) you're wrong.
Read it again then lol
It's a simple site, I thought that even you could understand it. Clearly I was wrong. I'll help out again though. This is from the SAAS site:
https://i.gyazo.com/9f3294b2efdfe6f03be57b722232acf0.png
EU students - For many applicants, your fee status is the same as your current country of residence
https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/university-tuition-fees/university-tuition-fees-and-financial-support/if-you-come-from-scotland/
You've been going on about the SAAS site and when I point out it shows the fees are paid suddenly you go off to a completely different site
Even the site you link to confirms the fees are paid, lol
https://i.gyazo.com/0b2d8ae2b4de566cf3cfc2fbe625401a.png
Is it loans ? Did you know loans have to be paid back ? Duh lol
You do know they can apply for SAAS and get a loan to pay for the fees but again a loan tou have to pay back
You don't apply to the SAAS for a loan to cover the fees. The fees are paid, at huge cost, by the tax payer.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37649436
Seriously, no one can be this thick.
"
Oh yes they can !!!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I was not fortunate to go to university.
I always assumed that the wealth of the nation was reflected in its education system therefore at the point of delivery I think it should be free.
I do agree with another poster that when it was free there was very less degree courses.
How many art historians does the country actually need.
There are far to many frivolous courses eg you can achieve a degree in soap opras.
I think the entire education system needs a giant overhaul.
I would like to see much more money directed to colleges for things like bricklaying .. plumbing and other trades.
Why can we not make degrees free at the point of delivery then as the person earns over a certain amount recover some of the money through slightly higher tax rate ?
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"Back when university was free, the percentage of people going to university was very small and the UK could afford to pay for them. It wad considered to be the place for future leaders and specialists to attend. Most people went on to apprenticeship or just a job. Even back then some people were unhappy that their taxes were funding other people's education.
With the number of people now going to university, the last projected cost I saw was in the region of £50bn to pay for everyone's fees.
I have to admit that as a taxpayer, I would resent paying for other people to get qualifications I didn't get when I was young. And I really don't believe the country could find a spare £50bn, even if we looked down the back of the treasury sofa.
So from a different point of view, why should the country pay for people to get a degree?
I admit that lumping interest in is wrong but with so many not getting a big enough income to pay their loan back, the UK still loses out on that money.
My ex had a degree in media technology. He worked in a call centre. Only a few more years to go and he won't need to pay it back. Maybe then he'll take the promotion they keep offering him and he turns down due to it taking him into repayment territory....
"
Back when going to university was free so was going to a polytechnic, collage of HE or FE, and with all due respect when you count the students in those other institutions then the numbers were similar (remember it was the tories turned the polys, teacher training colleges, colleges of HE and many colleges of FE into universities in 1992). Admittedly maintenance grants were discretionary for all non degree courses but were generally given to any student who qualified who was doing and OND or HND course. So the numbers argument is like so many Tory arguments nothing but an elaborate lei dreamed up to cover up the transfer of wealth to the top and debt to the bottom. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Back when university was free, the percentage of people going to university was very small and the UK could afford to pay for them. It wad considered to be the place for future leaders and specialists to attend. Most people went on to apprenticeship or just a job. Even back then some people were unhappy that their taxes were funding other people's education.
With the number of people now going to university, the last projected cost I saw was in the region of £50bn to pay for everyone's fees.
I have to admit that as a taxpayer, I would resent paying for other people to get qualifications I didn't get when I was young. And I really don't believe the country could find a spare £50bn, even if we looked down the back of the treasury sofa.
So from a different point of view, why should the country pay for people to get a degree?
I admit that lumping interest in is wrong but with so many not getting a big enough income to pay their loan back, the UK still loses out on that money.
My ex had a degree in media technology. He worked in a call centre. Only a few more years to go and he won't need to pay it back. Maybe then he'll take the promotion they keep offering him and he turns down due to it taking him into repayment territory....
Back when going to university was free so was going to a polytechnic, collage of HE or FE, and with all due respect when you count the students in those other institutions then the numbers were similar (remember it was the tories turned the polys, teacher training colleges, colleges of HE and many colleges of FE into universities in 1992). Admittedly maintenance grants were discretionary for all non degree courses but were generally given to any student who qualified who was doing and OND or HND course. So the numbers argument is like so many Tory arguments nothing but an elaborate lei dreamed up to cover up the transfer of wealth to the top and debt to the bottom."
That's not true.
When I was at Technical College, my employer paid for me to be on my course.
I also attended night school courses in my own time, and had to pay for the courses. |
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"That's not true.
When I was at Technical College, my employer paid for me to be on my course.
I also attended night school courses in my own time, and had to pay for the courses."
Actually it is true. And to be clear, if your employer paid for your course you were not on full time course unless it was a conversion course you having first completed a day or block release course to gain an ONC or HNC. You most certainly were not on a 3 year full time or 4 year 'sandwich' CNAA degree course or a 2 year HND or OND course. And seeing as you were in a Tech Collage you will not have been on a 1 or 2 year HND to degree conversion course (as they were only available from Polys and universities).
As for your comment about night school, was that by any chance 'adult learning'? And by the way day release and night school is not even remotely similar to full time study. |
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"This is a complex subject but like most things in GB is overpriced.
"
It is only complex if you make it so.
I choose not to, therefore the question is simple do we want education to be a universal right or a commercial product?
If you believe (like me) that education should be a universal right then the only question is at what age do we change from making education compulsory for all to being optional and how do we ration out what is a limited resource? I would suggest that there can only be one criteria used and that is ability, therefore selection needs to be based on competitive examination in relative subjects, and that all that qualify receive free tuition and full maintenance grants that cover all living expenses while studying.
The idea that we cant afford it is clearly bullshit, because we are the 6th richest economy in the world and clearly can afford it. However for the last 39 years the focus has been on cutting services to the many in order to enrich global businesses and the super rich, this has to stop and be reversed in order to properly fund our education, NHS and infrastructure.
It is really that simple. |
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"This is a complex subject but like most things in GB is overpriced.
It is only complex if you make it so.
I choose not to, therefore the question is simple do we want education to be a universal right or a commercial product?
If you believe (like me) that education should be a universal right then the only question is at what age do we change from making education compulsory for all to being optional and how do we ration out what is a limited resource? I would suggest that there can only be one criteria used and that is ability, therefore selection needs to be based on competitive examination in relative subjects, and that all that qualify receive free tuition and full maintenance grants that cover all living expenses while studying.
The idea that we cant afford it is clearly bullshit, because we are the 6th richest economy in the world and clearly can afford it. However for the last 39 years the focus has been on cutting services to the many in order to enrich global businesses and the super rich, this has to stop and be reversed in order to properly fund our education, NHS and infrastructure.
It is really that simple."
The UK government and those with allied vested interests, like to posit that it's only simple in one direction: education should be charged for, however it affects the nation.
The UK should have free education, as stated. It can benefit all of the country, hence this approach taken in many other prosperous countries. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"This is a complex subject but like most things in GB is overpriced.
It is only complex if you make it so.
I choose not to, therefore the question is simple do we want education to be a universal right or a commercial product?
If you believe (like me) that education should be a universal right then the only question is at what age do we change from making education compulsory for all to being optional and how do we ration out what is a limited resource? I would suggest that there can only be one criteria used and that is ability, therefore selection needs to be based on competitive examination in relative subjects, and that all that qualify receive free tuition and full maintenance grants that cover all living expenses while studying.
The idea that we cant afford it is clearly bullshit, because we are the 6th richest economy in the world and clearly can afford it. However for the last 39 years the focus has been on cutting services to the many in order to enrich global businesses and the super rich, this has to stop and be reversed in order to properly fund our education, NHS and infrastructure.
It is really that simple.
The UK government and those with allied vested interests, like to posit that it's only simple in one direction: education should be charged for, however it affects the nation.
The UK should have free education, as stated. It can benefit all of the country, hence this approach taken in many other prosperous countries."
Scotland does have free education though
|
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"This is a complex subject but like most things in GB is overpriced.
It is only complex if you make it so.
I choose not to, therefore the question is simple do we want education to be a universal right or a commercial product?
If you believe (like me) that education should be a universal right then the only question is at what age do we change from making education compulsory for all to being optional and how do we ration out what is a limited resource? I would suggest that there can only be one criteria used and that is ability, therefore selection needs to be based on competitive examination in relative subjects, and that all that qualify receive free tuition and full maintenance grants that cover all living expenses while studying.
The idea that we cant afford it is clearly bullshit, because we are the 6th richest economy in the world and clearly can afford it. However for the last 39 years the focus has been on cutting services to the many in order to enrich global businesses and the super rich, this has to stop and be reversed in order to properly fund our education, NHS and infrastructure.
It is really that simple.
The UK government and those with allied vested interests, like to posit that it's only simple in one direction: education should be charged for, however it affects the nation.
The UK should have free education, as stated. It can benefit all of the country, hence this approach taken in many other prosperous countries.
Scotland does have free education though
"
That one's been fairly extensively covered, see above, including some of your posts, I think. On the issue of where charges are levied to people, it comes to something when the Prime Minister makes a public statement about the UK's position at the higher end of charging. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"This is a complex subject but like most things in GB is overpriced.
It is only complex if you make it so.
I choose not to, therefore the question is simple do we want education to be a universal right or a commercial product?
If you believe (like me) that education should be a universal right then the only question is at what age do we change from making education compulsory for all to being optional and how do we ration out what is a limited resource? I would suggest that there can only be one criteria used and that is ability, therefore selection needs to be based on competitive examination in relative subjects, and that all that qualify receive free tuition and full maintenance grants that cover all living expenses while studying.
The idea that we cant afford it is clearly bullshit, because we are the 6th richest economy in the world and clearly can afford it. However for the last 39 years the focus has been on cutting services to the many in order to enrich global businesses and the super rich, this has to stop and be reversed in order to properly fund our education, NHS and infrastructure.
It is really that simple.
The UK government and those with allied vested interests, like to posit that it's only simple in one direction: education should be charged for, however it affects the nation.
The UK should have free education, as stated. It can benefit all of the country, hence this approach taken in many other prosperous countries.
Scotland does have free education though
That one's been fairly extensively covered, see above, including some of your posts, I think. On the issue of where charges are levied to people, it comes to something when the Prime Minister makes a public statement about the UK's position at the higher end of charging."
You said " The UK should have free education"
So i am here just remaining you Scotland already does have free education you mean England and Wales should have free education |
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"This is a complex subject but like most things in GB is overpriced.
It is only complex if you make it so.
I choose not to, therefore the question is simple do we want education to be a universal right or a commercial product?
If you believe (like me) that education should be a universal right then the only question is at what age do we change from making education compulsory for all to being optional and how do we ration out what is a limited resource? I would suggest that there can only be one criteria used and that is ability, therefore selection needs to be based on competitive examination in relative subjects, and that all that qualify receive free tuition and full maintenance grants that cover all living expenses while studying.
The idea that we cant afford it is clearly bullshit, because we are the 6th richest economy in the world and clearly can afford it. However for the last 39 years the focus has been on cutting services to the many in order to enrich global businesses and the super rich, this has to stop and be reversed in order to properly fund our education, NHS and infrastructure.
It is really that simple.
The UK government and those with allied vested interests, like to posit that it's only simple in one direction: education should be charged for, however it affects the nation.
The UK should have free education, as stated. It can benefit all of the country, hence this approach taken in many other prosperous countries.
Scotland does have free education though
That one's been fairly extensively covered, see above, including some of your posts, I think. On the issue of where charges are levied to people, it comes to something when the Prime Minister makes a public statement about the UK's position at the higher end of charging.
You said " The UK should have free education"
So i am here just remaining you Scotland already does have free education you mean England and Wales should have free education "
I think it would be great for all of the UK to have access to free education |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"This is a complex subject but like most things in GB is overpriced.
It is only complex if you make it so.
I choose not to, therefore the question is simple do we want education to be a universal right or a commercial product?
If you believe (like me) that education should be a universal right then the only question is at what age do we change from making education compulsory for all to being optional and how do we ration out what is a limited resource? I would suggest that there can only be one criteria used and that is ability, therefore selection needs to be based on competitive examination in relative subjects, and that all that qualify receive free tuition and full maintenance grants that cover all living expenses while studying.
The idea that we cant afford it is clearly bullshit, because we are the 6th richest economy in the world and clearly can afford it. However for the last 39 years the focus has been on cutting services to the many in order to enrich global businesses and the super rich, this has to stop and be reversed in order to properly fund our education, NHS and infrastructure.
It is really that simple.
The UK government and those with allied vested interests, like to posit that it's only simple in one direction: education should be charged for, however it affects the nation.
The UK should have free education, as stated. It can benefit all of the country, hence this approach taken in many other prosperous countries.
Scotland does have free education though
That one's been fairly extensively covered, see above, including some of your posts, I think. On the issue of where charges are levied to people, it comes to something when the Prime Minister makes a public statement about the UK's position at the higher end of charging.
You said " The UK should have free education"
So i am here just remaining you Scotland already does have free education you mean England and Wales should have free education
I think it would be great for all of the UK to have access to free education"
Again you mean you think it would be great to see England and Wales to have free education
Scotland already has free education lol |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"This is a complex subject but like most things in GB is overpriced.
It is only complex if you make it so.
I choose not to, therefore the question is simple do we want education to be a universal right or a commercial product?
If you believe (like me) that education should be a universal right then the only question is at what age do we change from making education compulsory for all to being optional and how do we ration out what is a limited resource? I would suggest that there can only be one criteria used and that is ability, therefore selection needs to be based on competitive examination in relative subjects, and that all that qualify receive free tuition and full maintenance grants that cover all living expenses while studying.
The idea that we cant afford it is clearly bullshit, because we are the 6th richest economy in the world and clearly can afford it. However for the last 39 years the focus has been on cutting services to the many in order to enrich global businesses and the super rich, this has to stop and be reversed in order to properly fund our education, NHS and infrastructure.
It is really that simple."
Life is not a theory or an ideal you need to learn this.The real world is governed by many factors and utopia is impossible
buut keep dreaming friend it makes me smile even though it is sad |
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"Life is not a theory or an ideal you need to learn this.The real world is governed by many factors and utopia is impossible
buut keep dreaming friend it makes me smile even though it is sad"
Funny how it worked right up to the introduction of Thatcherism and Reaganomics. Of course since then we have cut corporate taxes and reduced income tax for the wealthy because that was the way forward...
How has that worked?
I see homelessness everywhere where there was virtually none, I see failing infrastructure because of lack of maintenance where there was renewal and improvement, and I see billions in untaxed profits and income being transferred out of this country into tax-havens while the enterprises that produce that income are being destroyed by lack of investment. And you have the gall to tell me I'm dreaming when clearly your a Tory 'trickle down' junkie! |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Don't worry your not the only one to get hooked, the vast majority of the country got hooked to the same economic dogma, as did most of the USA. It has not worked out too good for them either."
Life is better for most of the population than it was 50 years ago.Yes life is to stressfull and life can be unpleasant but people eat drink,keep warm have cars etc.Yes there are the bottom tier of people that get left behind that has happened since creation and the bottom tier gets smaller most of the time.There are many drug addicts,alcoholics and losers out there but that is there problem,my mother was an alcoholic and I do not have any sympathy for them and no society left or right wing will get it right for these people.Life is about the survival of the fittest it is part of nature we are animals.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If GB stands for Great Britain in this title thread
Then surely you would know in Scotland students do not pay for any fees
What you mean is England and Wales really no worries correcting that bit of misinformation lol
As you well know, some students in Scotland pay fees.
First of where is the thanks for correcting the misinformation wouldnt want people getting the wrong idea now that Scotland being lumped in this issue of fees when fees in Scotland are free
Now to address your wee comment yes students outside of Scotland that come here to student have to pay as the problem would be they would be taking up places of Scottish students
And if Scottish students move to England to study in uni they have to pay for the fees for their education let it sink in
Every child / student has the right to an education free of course not for mommy and daddy to pay their kids education or worse case that kid having debts set on them for life
And what about all the non-UK EU students that get free university education.
Assuming the costs are coming out of general taxation, and assuming that you work and pay tax, you are paying for Polish, Bulgarian, French students to be educated.
To be classed as a Scottish student you have to have lived in Scotland for 3 years
EU students have to pay upto 1,820 per year of their course and SSSA is a loan so they are not getting it for free and its based on your income
Thank your welcome
Lets now get back to the problem GB was in the title thread and in Scotland fees free so its wrong information
What the title thread should say is in England and Wales correct ?
Its not a good look trying to lump Scotland into the mess England and Wales have created
Yes correct but I am not looking to do a degree in either England or Wales,
Highland Islands University of Scotland will do me, 20 mins drive and free of charge"
Bullshit course that could be taught by one's self or at a college. Perfect example of a course I'd gut and reallocate funding to the STEM and medical fields with. |
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"Life is better for most of the population than it was 50 years ago.Yes life is to stressfull and life can be unpleasant but people eat drink,keep warm have cars etc.Yes there are the bottom tier of people that get left behind that has happened since creation and the bottom tier gets smaller most of the time.There are many drug addicts,alcoholics and losers out there but that is there problem,my mother was an alcoholic and I do not have any sympathy for them and no society left or right wing will get it right for these people.Life is about the survival of the fittest it is part of nature we are animals."
Do you really believe that? Or are you mindlessly mouthing some soundbite you have heard pumped at you a 1000000 times from the box in the corner?
You and I are the same age (give or take). How many homeless did you see as a child or a teenager? How many drug addicts were there? How many unemployed were there? How hard was it to get a job? How long did it take to get a council home if you wanted one? How long did it take to save the 10% mortgage deposit? And how long did it take to clear you repayment mortgage (remember those)?
Do you remember if you decided to buy a 2up2down terrace in need of modernising (no bath outside loo) how much they cost? Do you remember the grants for fitting a bathroom, toilet and modern kitchen?
Whats happened to all that?
Life in the 60's and 70's was not as bad as you have been convinced it was and life now is not half as good as you think it is.
We have more stuff, that's because as time advances there is more stuff. But truth is more people have NOTHING, not even a park bench to sleep on! Every year the rich get richer, the rest of us get poorer and more and more find themselves with NOTHING! At what point will you admit that there is a serious problem? Will you admit things are bad when it comes to your turn to be made homeless because some billionaire decides to steal your future? Or will you shrug your shoulders and say well i got left behind as the world moved on? |
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"I am all for degrees for engineering science ect but when it comes to students going to university and getting loans to study things like performing arts sorry but NO.
Also if someone studies and goes into the field they actually studied for such as useful stuff science,medical engineering ect and stays in that field for at least 5 years then I don’t think they should have to pay it off!
This would cut down on a lot of th toy town corses that seem to spring up "
Don't think your example is well chosen, Britain actually excels at the performing arts and economy wise this sector earns a great deal of money for the country. Estimated £27 billion to UK economy in 2015. |
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"I am all for degrees for engineering science ect but when it comes to students going to university and getting loans to study things like performing arts sorry but NO.
Also if someone studies and goes into the field they actually studied for such as useful stuff science,medical engineering ect and stays in that field for at least 5 years then I don’t think they should have to pay it off!
This would cut down on a lot of th toy town corses that seem to spring up "
Are you the person who is going to decide what courses are and arent acceptable? |
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"Back when university was free, the percentage of people going to university was very small and the UK could afford to pay for them. It wad considered to be the place for future leaders and specialists to attend. Most people went on to apprenticeship or just a job. Even back then some people were unhappy that their taxes were funding other people's education.
With the number of people now going to university, the last projected cost I saw was in the region of £50bn to pay for everyone's fees.
I have to admit that as a taxpayer, I would resent paying for other people to get qualifications I didn't get when I was young. And I really don't believe the country could find a spare £50bn, even if we looked down the back of the treasury sofa.
So from a different point of view, why should the country pay for people to get a degree?
I admit that lumping interest in is wrong but with so many not getting a big enough income to pay their loan back, the UK still loses out on that money.
My ex had a degree in media technology. He worked in a call centre. Only a few more years to go and he won't need to pay it back. Maybe then he'll take the promotion they keep offering him and he turns down due to it taking him into repayment territory....
Back when going to university was free so was going to a polytechnic, collage of HE or FE, and with all due respect when you count the students in those other institutions then the numbers were similar (remember it was the tories turned the polys, teacher training colleges, colleges of HE and many colleges of FE into universities in 1992). Admittedly maintenance grants were discretionary for all non degree courses but were generally given to any student who qualified who was doing and OND or HND course. So the numbers argument is like so many Tory arguments nothing but an elaborate lei dreamed up to cover up the transfer of wealth to the top and debt to the bottom."
That's simply not true. In the 1960s 10% of the population went into Higher Education whether at a university, a poly or a college of HE. Today that figure is over 40%. Part of the reason for that was that there was an artificial cap on the number of 18 year olds who were qualified to go to HE because A level pass rates were kept at 70% (norm referenced rather than criterion referenced) |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"That's not true.
When I was at Technical College, my employer paid for me to be on my course.
I also attended night school courses in my own time, and had to pay for the courses.
Actually it is true. And to be clear, if your employer paid for your course you were not on full time course unless it was a conversion course you having first completed a day or block release course to gain an ONC or HNC. You most certainly were not on a 3 year full time or 4 year 'sandwich' CNAA degree course or a 2 year HND or OND course. And seeing as you were in a Tech Collage you will not have been on a 1 or 2 year HND to degree conversion course (as they were only available from Polys and universities).
As for your comment about night school, was that by any chance 'adult learning'? And by the way day release and night school is not even remotely similar to full time study."
So going to a place of FE, wether it be a college or polytechnic, wasn't "free" then?
I spent a year as a 16yo full time at college. My employer had to pay for me to be there.
My son spent a year as a 16yo at the same college. His course was free.
Education is a very complex issue. But the over-riding fact, is that there is always a cost somewhere.
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"Three cheers for the Barnett formula, eh kinky?
Lmao so Scottish people pay no tax eh ? "
Is that a serious question?
LMAO Scotland does spend more than it raises, its a great deal for Scotland.
That's why Scotland spends around 20% more per person than England.
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"Three cheers for the Barnett formula, eh kinky?
Lmao so Scottish people pay no tax eh ?
Is that a serious question?
LMAO Scotland dsoes spend more than it raises, its a great deal for Scotland.
That's why Scotland spends around 20% more per person than England.
"
Ah the old subsidy junkie crap |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Three cheers for the Barnett formula, eh kinky?
Lmao so Scottish people pay no tax eh ?
Is that a serious question?
LMAO Scotland dsoes spend more than it raises, its a great deal for Scotland.
That's why Scotland spends around 20% more per person than England.
Ah the old subsidy junkie crap "
Do you actually know how Barnett works? |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"Three cheers for the Barnett formula, eh kinky?
Lmao so Scottish people pay no tax eh ?
Is that a serious question?
LMAO Scotland dsoes spend more than it raises, its a great deal for Scotland.
That's why Scotland spends around 20% more per person than England.
Ah the old subsidy junkie crap
Do you actually know how Barnett works?"
Ok does Scottish tax and revenue stay in Scotland or go to the UK treasury? Why are you so against that money staying in Scotland? |
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"This is a complex subject but like most things in GB is overpriced.
It is only complex if you make it so.
I choose not to, therefore the question is simple do we want education to be a universal right or a commercial product?
If you believe (like me) that education should be a universal right then the only question is at what age do we change from making education compulsory for all to being optional and how do we ration out what is a limited resource? I would suggest that there can only be one criteria used and that is ability, therefore selection needs to be based on competitive examination in relative subjects, and that all that qualify receive free tuition and full maintenance grants that cover all living expenses while studying.
The idea that we cant afford it is clearly bullshit, because we are the 6th richest economy in the world and clearly can afford it. However for the last 39 years the focus has been on cutting services to the many in order to enrich global businesses and the super rich, this has to stop and be reversed in order to properly fund our education, NHS and infrastructure.
It is really that simple.
The UK government and those with allied vested interests, like to posit that it's only simple in one direction: education should be charged for, however it affects the nation.
The UK should have free education, as stated. It can benefit all of the country, hence this approach taken in many other prosperous countries.
Scotland does have free education though
That one's been fairly extensively covered, see above, including some of your posts, I think. On the issue of where charges are levied to people, it comes to something when the Prime Minister makes a public statement about the UK's position at the higher end of charging.
You said " The UK should have free education"
So i am here just remaining you Scotland already does have free education you mean England and Wales should have free education
I think it would be great for all of the UK to have access to free education
Again you mean you think it would be great to see England and Wales to have free education
Scotland already has free education lol "
All of the UK, with people from each separate nation studying in any part for free, rather than it being selective, as it is now. Scotland has made a great progressive decision which should in part be a model for the rest. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"This is a complex subject but like most things in GB is overpriced.
It is only complex if you make it so.
I choose not to, therefore the question is simple do we want education to be a universal right or a commercial product?
If you believe (like me) that education should be a universal right then the only question is at what age do we change from making education compulsory for all to being optional and how do we ration out what is a limited resource? I would suggest that there can only be one criteria used and that is ability, therefore selection needs to be based on competitive examination in relative subjects, and that all that qualify receive free tuition and full maintenance grants that cover all living expenses while studying.
The idea that we cant afford it is clearly bullshit, because we are the 6th richest economy in the world and clearly can afford it. However for the last 39 years the focus has been on cutting services to the many in order to enrich global businesses and the super rich, this has to stop and be reversed in order to properly fund our education, NHS and infrastructure.
It is really that simple.
The UK government and those with allied vested interests, like to posit that it's only simple in one direction: education should be charged for, however it affects the nation.
The UK should have free education, as stated. It can benefit all of the country, hence this approach taken in many other prosperous countries.
Scotland does have free education though
That one's been fairly extensively covered, see above, including some of your posts, I think. On the issue of where charges are levied to people, it comes to something when the Prime Minister makes a public statement about the UK's position at the higher end of charging.
You said " The UK should have free education"
So i am here just remaining you Scotland already does have free education you mean England and Wales should have free education
I think it would be great for all of the UK to have access to free education
Again you mean you think it would be great to see England and Wales to have free education
Scotland already has free education lol
All of the UK, with people from each separate nation studying in any part for free, rather than it being selective, as it is now. Scotland has made a great progressive decision which should in part be a model for the rest. "
Again you mean England and Wales should follow Scotland decision on free education your welcome |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Three cheers for the Barnett formula, eh kinky?
Lmao so Scottish people pay no tax eh ?
Is that a serious question?
LMAO Scotland dsoes spend more than it raises, its a great deal for Scotland.
That's why Scotland spends around 20% more per person than England.
Ah the old subsidy junkie crap
Do you actually know how Barnett works?
Ok does Scottish tax and revenue stay in Scotland or go to the UK treasury? Why are you so against that money staying in Scotland?"
The question was "do you actually know how Barnett works"?
What has your answer got to do with that. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"This is a complex subject but like most things in GB is overpriced.
It is only complex if you make it so.
I choose not to, therefore the question is simple do we want education to be a universal right or a commercial product?
If you believe (like me) that education should be a universal right then the only question is at what age do we change from making education compulsory for all to being optional and how do we ration out what is a limited resource? I would suggest that there can only be one criteria used and that is ability, therefore selection needs to be based on competitive examination in relative subjects, and that all that qualify receive free tuition and full maintenance grants that cover all living expenses while studying.
The idea that we cant afford it is clearly bullshit, because we are the 6th richest economy in the world and clearly can afford it. However for the last 39 years the focus has been on cutting services to the many in order to enrich global businesses and the super rich, this has to stop and be reversed in order to properly fund our education, NHS and infrastructure.
It is really that simple.
The UK government and those with allied vested interests, like to posit that it's only simple in one direction: education should be charged for, however it affects the nation.
The UK should have free education, as stated. It can benefit all of the country, hence this approach taken in many other prosperous countries.
Scotland does have free education though
That one's been fairly extensively covered, see above, including some of your posts, I think. On the issue of where charges are levied to people, it comes to something when the Prime Minister makes a public statement about the UK's position at the higher end of charging.
You said " The UK should have free education"
So i am here just remaining you Scotland already does have free education you mean England and Wales should have free education
I think it would be great for all of the UK to have access to free education
Again you mean you think it would be great to see England and Wales to have free education
Scotland already has free education lol
All of the UK, with people from each separate nation studying in any part for free, rather than it being selective, as it is now. Scotland has made a great progressive decision which should in part be a model for the rest.
Again you mean England and Wales should follow Scotland decision on free education your welcome "
Tuition fees for those that qualify, are "free" in Scotland.
Education most certainly isn't free! |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"This is a complex subject but like most things in GB is overpriced.
It is only complex if you make it so.
I choose not to, therefore the question is simple do we want education to be a universal right or a commercial product?
If you believe (like me) that education should be a universal right then the only question is at what age do we change from making education compulsory for all to being optional and how do we ration out what is a limited resource? I would suggest that there can only be one criteria used and that is ability, therefore selection needs to be based on competitive examination in relative subjects, and that all that qualify receive free tuition and full maintenance grants that cover all living expenses while studying.
The idea that we cant afford it is clearly bullshit, because we are the 6th richest economy in the world and clearly can afford it. However for the last 39 years the focus has been on cutting services to the many in order to enrich global businesses and the super rich, this has to stop and be reversed in order to properly fund our education, NHS and infrastructure.
It is really that simple.
The UK government and those with allied vested interests, like to posit that it's only simple in one direction: education should be charged for, however it affects the nation.
The UK should have free education, as stated. It can benefit all of the country, hence this approach taken in many other prosperous countries.
Scotland does have free education though
That one's been fairly extensively covered, see above, including some of your posts, I think. On the issue of where charges are levied to people, it comes to something when the Prime Minister makes a public statement about the UK's position at the higher end of charging.
You said " The UK should have free education"
So i am here just remaining you Scotland already does have free education you mean England and Wales should have free education
I think it would be great for all of the UK to have access to free education
Again you mean you think it would be great to see England and Wales to have free education
Scotland already has free education lol
All of the UK, with people from each separate nation studying in any part for free, rather than it being selective, as it is now. Scotland has made a great progressive decision which should in part be a model for the rest.
Again you mean England and Wales should follow Scotland decision on free education your welcome
Tuition fees for those that qualify, are "free" in Scotland.
Education most certainly isn't free!"
Ok why is it not free ? You gonna use that non Scottish students have to pay for their fees in Scotland which is true as it would be taking away place from Scottish students
How many student from England and Wales do do you think would weight up the options of do i pay for fees or do i move to Scotland and get my course paid for me therefore taking away a place for a Scottish student wanting to go to uni not really fair is it ?
And on top of that if a Scottish student moves and studys in England they then have to pay the fees
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"This is a complex subject but like most things in GB is overpriced.
It is only complex if you make it so.
I choose not to, therefore the question is simple do we want education to be a universal right or a commercial product?
If you believe (like me) that education should be a universal right then the only question is at what age do we change from making education compulsory for all to being optional and how do we ration out what is a limited resource? I would suggest that there can only be one criteria used and that is ability, therefore selection needs to be based on competitive examination in relative subjects, and that all that qualify receive free tuition and full maintenance grants that cover all living expenses while studying.
The idea that we cant afford it is clearly bullshit, because we are the 6th richest economy in the world and clearly can afford it. However for the last 39 years the focus has been on cutting services to the many in order to enrich global businesses and the super rich, this has to stop and be reversed in order to properly fund our education, NHS and infrastructure.
It is really that simple.
The UK government and those with allied vested interests, like to posit that it's only simple in one direction: education should be charged for, however it affects the nation.
The UK should have free education, as stated. It can benefit all of the country, hence this approach taken in many other prosperous countries.
Scotland does have free education though
That one's been fairly extensively covered, see above, including some of your posts, I think. On the issue of where charges are levied to people, it comes to something when the Prime Minister makes a public statement about the UK's position at the higher end of charging.
You said " The UK should have free education"
So i am here just remaining you Scotland already does have free education you mean England and Wales should have free education
I think it would be great for all of the UK to have access to free education
Again you mean you think it would be great to see England and Wales to have free education
Scotland already has free education lol
All of the UK, with people from each separate nation studying in any part for free, rather than it being selective, as it is now. Scotland has made a great progressive decision which should in part be a model for the rest.
Again you mean England and Wales should follow Scotland decision on free education your welcome
Tuition fees for those that qualify, are "free" in Scotland.
Education most certainly isn't free!
Ok why is it not free ? You gonna use that non Scottish students have to pay for their fees in Scotland which is true as it would be taking away place from Scottish students
How many student from England and Wales do do you think would weight up the options of do i pay for fees or do i move to Scotland and get my course paid for me therefore taking away a place for a Scottish student wanting to go to uni not really fair is it ?
And on top of that if a Scottish student moves and studys in England they then have to pay the fees
"
Do you not pay teachers and lecturers in Scotland then? Do the schools and colleges not pay their electric and gas bills? Are all educational consumables free?
You keep mixing up tuition fees with the cost of education. Education is not free anywhere in the UK. Someone, somewhere has to pay. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"This is a complex subject but like most things in GB is overpriced.
It is only complex if you make it so.
I choose not to, therefore the question is simple do we want education to be a universal right or a commercial product?
If you believe (like me) that education should be a universal right then the only question is at what age do we change from making education compulsory for all to being optional and how do we ration out what is a limited resource? I would suggest that there can only be one criteria used and that is ability, therefore selection needs to be based on competitive examination in relative subjects, and that all that qualify receive free tuition and full maintenance grants that cover all living expenses while studying.
The idea that we cant afford it is clearly bullshit, because we are the 6th richest economy in the world and clearly can afford it. However for the last 39 years the focus has been on cutting services to the many in order to enrich global businesses and the super rich, this has to stop and be reversed in order to properly fund our education, NHS and infrastructure.
It is really that simple.
The UK government and those with allied vested interests, like to posit that it's only simple in one direction: education should be charged for, however it affects the nation.
The UK should have free education, as stated. It can benefit all of the country, hence this approach taken in many other prosperous countries.
Scotland does have free education though
That one's been fairly extensively covered, see above, including some of your posts, I think. On the issue of where charges are levied to people, it comes to something when the Prime Minister makes a public statement about the UK's position at the higher end of charging.
You said " The UK should have free education"
So i am here just remaining you Scotland already does have free education you mean England and Wales should have free education
I think it would be great for all of the UK to have access to free education
Again you mean you think it would be great to see England and Wales to have free education
Scotland already has free education lol
All of the UK, with people from each separate nation studying in any part for free, rather than it being selective, as it is now. Scotland has made a great progressive decision which should in part be a model for the rest.
Again you mean England and Wales should follow Scotland decision on free education your welcome
Tuition fees for those that qualify, are "free" in Scotland.
Education most certainly isn't free!
Ok why is it not free ? You gonna use that non Scottish students have to pay for their fees in Scotland which is true as it would be taking away place from Scottish students
How many student from England and Wales do do you think would weight up the options of do i pay for fees or do i move to Scotland and get my course paid for me therefore taking away a place for a Scottish student wanting to go to uni not really fair is it ?
And on top of that if a Scottish student moves and studys in England they then have to pay the fees
Do you not pay teachers and lecturers in Scotland then? Do the schools and colleges not pay their electric and gas bills? Are all educational consumables free?
You keep mixing up tuition fees with the cost of education. Education is not free anywhere in the UK. Someone, somewhere has to pay."
Education is free for pupils /students in Scotland
Tell when did you last see a pupil / student handing over money for their edcuation in Scotland ? |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"This is a complex subject but like most things in GB is overpriced.
It is only complex if you make it so.
I choose not to, therefore the question is simple do we want education to be a universal right or a commercial product?
If you believe (like me) that education should be a universal right then the only question is at what age do we change from making education compulsory for all to being optional and how do we ration out what is a limited resource? I would suggest that there can only be one criteria used and that is ability, therefore selection needs to be based on competitive examination in relative subjects, and that all that qualify receive free tuition and full maintenance grants that cover all living expenses while studying.
The idea that we cant afford it is clearly bullshit, because we are the 6th richest economy in the world and clearly can afford it. However for the last 39 years the focus has been on cutting services to the many in order to enrich global businesses and the super rich, this has to stop and be reversed in order to properly fund our education, NHS and infrastructure.
It is really that simple.
The UK government and those with allied vested interests, like to posit that it's only simple in one direction: education should be charged for, however it affects the nation.
The UK should have free education, as stated. It can benefit all of the country, hence this approach taken in many other prosperous countries.
Scotland does have free education though
That one's been fairly extensively covered, see above, including some of your posts, I think. On the issue of where charges are levied to people, it comes to something when the Prime Minister makes a public statement about the UK's position at the higher end of charging.
You said " The UK should have free education"
So i am here just remaining you Scotland already does have free education you mean England and Wales should have free education
I think it would be great for all of the UK to have access to free education
Again you mean you think it would be great to see England and Wales to have free education
Scotland already has free education lol
All of the UK, with people from each separate nation studying in any part for free, rather than it being selective, as it is now. Scotland has made a great progressive decision which should in part be a model for the rest.
Again you mean England and Wales should follow Scotland decision on free education your welcome
Tuition fees for those that qualify, are "free" in Scotland.
Education most certainly isn't free!
Ok why is it not free ? You gonna use that non Scottish students have to pay for their fees in Scotland which is true as it would be taking away place from Scottish students
How many student from England and Wales do do you think would weight up the options of do i pay for fees or do i move to Scotland and get my course paid for me therefore taking away a place for a Scottish student wanting to go to uni not really fair is it ?
And on top of that if a Scottish student moves and studys in England they then have to pay the fees
Do you not pay teachers and lecturers in Scotland then? Do the schools and colleges not pay their electric and gas bills? Are all educational consumables free?
You keep mixing up tuition fees with the cost of education. Education is not free anywhere in the UK. Someone, somewhere has to pay.
Education is free for pupils /students in Scotland
Tell when did you last see a pupil / student handing over money for their edcuation in Scotland ? "
That's not the same as saying "education is free in Scotland".
If Scotland wishes to fund education through direct taxation, then that's a policy decision for the Scottish Government.
Again, not paying tuition fees does not make education free. |
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"
All of the UK, with people from each separate nation studying in any part for free, rather than it being selective, as it is now. Scotland has made a great progressive decision which should in part be a model for the rest. "
The Scottish method definitely shouldn't be a model for the rest. In Scotland the policy is the polar opposite of reditributive with the poorer basically subsiding the richer, the poorest leave higher education saddled with debt and those from richer backgrounds tend to have none.
Lucy Hunter Blackburn used to be the Head of Higher Education for the Scottish govt and is now an independent expert on student funding (which she blogs about).
Here's her blog, which has a fair amount of information on the subject:
https://adventuresinevidence.com/about-this-blog/
And here's one of her articles on the subject:
http://sceptical.scot/2017/05/lets-debate-different-models-for-student-fees-and-grants/
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"My own opinion is that there should be tuition fees, but they should be means tested. Haven't given it much though as to how much the fees should be though."
So no child/student has a right to a free education ?
Let me guess you dont believe children should have free school meal either ? |
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"My own opinion is that there should be tuition fees, but they should be means tested. Haven't given it much though as to how much the fees should be though.
So no child/student has a right to a free education ?
Let me guess you dont believe children should have free school meal either ?"
It's straight forward but this is beyond you're simplistic thought process I'm afraid. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"My own opinion is that there should be tuition fees, but they should be means tested. Haven't given it much though as to how much the fees should be though.
So no child/student has a right to a free education ?
Let me guess you dont believe children should have free school meal either ?
It's straight forward but this is beyond you're simplistic thought process I'm afraid."
No answer to my questions then ? |
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"My own opinion is that there should be tuition fees, but they should be means tested. Haven't given it much though as to how much the fees should be though.
So no child/student has a right to a free education ?
Let me guess you dont believe children should have free school meal either ?
It's straight forward but this is beyond you're simplistic thought process I'm afraid.
No answer to my questions then ?"
You don't understand your own question that's how bad it is. Mercury has been pointing this out but you can't grasp it. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"My own opinion is that there should be tuition fees, but they should be means tested. Haven't given it much though as to how much the fees should be though.
So no child/student has a right to a free education ?
Let me guess you dont believe children should have free school meal either ?
It's straight forward but this is beyond you're simplistic thought process I'm afraid.
No answer to my questions then ?
You don't understand your own question that's how bad it is. Mercury has been pointing this out but you can't grasp it. "
Shat out of answer then not just one but both questions |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Has anyone noticed that a student loan is sort of like buying an education on the never never as my mum used to call it. If you don't earn enough it get's written off anyway after 35 years and it doesn't hit your credit rating either. If you end up earning less than 25K or whatever you don't pay a bean back.
Sorry but I can't see the problem with it to be honest. |
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"Has anyone noticed that a student loan is sort of like buying an education on the never never as my mum used to call it. If you don't earn enough it get's written off anyway after 35 years and it doesn't hit your credit rating either. If you end up earning less than 25K or whatever you don't pay a bean back.
Sorry but I can't see the problem with it to be honest."
It's still a debt that accrues interest hanging around someone's neck. If they have low income it obviously grows consistently larger. It's a question of whether it's the best solution and also whether, should it be, the fees and interest are reasonable.
The debts are also sold on to private debt collection companies who unbelievably can change the terms of the contract.
I don't view it as the ideal solution and it can deter some people from poorer backgrounds from education, helping to sustain disadvantages
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"The point is every uni has plumbed for the maximum charge there is no variation in fees. As stated some degrees are more worthwhile than others. The 6% interest rate charge when the BoE rate is 0.5%, mortgage rates are at 2-3% - is it fair? The point about repayment is a fair point but older generations were "paid" to go to uni - under the grant system. So what is fair and equitable? "
When I was 18 only about 10% of the population went to university, now over 45% go. What was affordable for 10% is simply not affordable for 45%.
Having had kids myself go through the current system I think that it is actually quite a good and fair system that allows far more people who could benefit from a university education to do so than the old rationed grant system did. |
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"If only a small amount ends up being repayed where is the profit ?
You clearly do not know how the system works...
The debt is not written off...
An individuals debt is written off, but the Treasury through the SLC pays and that means the tax payer pays. Of course the SLC sell off the 'loan book' to financial institutions at a discount, which makes it nice little annual earner for the banks as the SLC underwrites those loans sold off, while at the same time Chief Exec and Board of the SLC get to trousers a nice wedge before moving to the very financial institutions they have been selling tax payers money to at a discounted rate.
As I said it is all about profit.
"
Which is why the high interest rate charged and the debt its self is not really a problem for the students but, if nothing is done about the interest rates, it is going to be a very major problem for the government and the tax payer in 20 to 30 years time. We need to take the political point scoring out of this debate and start looking at the real problem with the current system, which is the interest rate, and try and fix it. The previous system of rationed means based grants had many problems of its own. |
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"Personally I think that there are a lot of waste of time degrees out there.
That’s part of the review. A full time degree in say Chemistry, engineering or medicine certainly justifies the fees.... but a degree in “Beckham Studies” or whatever....sorry just a joke.
Interesting Martin Lewis show last week...focussed on student “debt” and how the interest etc is pretty much ‘notional’.
Students have NO upfront costs. Only start paying back in April after they finish and pay just 9% of earnings above £25k (from this April).
My youngest daughter graduated last June with a masters in chemistry. She got a job @£31k. Her total debt is around £68k (four year degree). She will start paying back @ £540 per year (£45/month) ...hardly going to break the bank!
At that rate...in 30 years she will pay back £16200 in total. The rest is then wiped!
If fees were £3million a year and interest rates 100%..... she would still just pay back £16200 in total. (Anyone whose wages are below £25k will pay NOTHING back...ever)
As Martin Lewis said..... the fees and interest rates are irrelevant.....unless you are earning £100k plus you will be virtually unaffected by the interest. Only the very rich, high earners will pay their loans back in full..... so it is designed to be aimed at the rich and not the poor....
Wether any fees are right or wrong is a point for debate...but these above are the facts on which to base your judgements."
Hmm....it's currently 9% of anything earned over 21k, so in your example £75 per month.
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"If GB stands for Great Britain in this title thread
Then surely you would know in Scotland students do not pay for any fees
What you mean is England and Wales really no worries correcting that bit of misinformation lol
As you well know, some students in Scotland pay fees.
First of where is the thanks for correcting the misinformation wouldnt want people getting the wrong idea now that Scotland being lumped in this issue of fees when fees in Scotland are free
Now to address your wee comment yes students outside of Scotland that come here to student have to pay as the problem would be they would be taking up places of Scottish students
And if Scottish students move to England to study in uni they have to pay for the fees for their education let it sink in
Every child / student has the right to an education free of course not for mommy and daddy to pay their kids education or worse case that kid having debts set on them for life
And what about all the non-UK EU students that get free university education.
Assuming the costs are coming out of general taxation, and assuming that you work and pay tax, you are paying for Polish, Bulgarian, French students to be educated."
Not in England / Scotland / Wales where the fees are the same as UK students.... |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Personally I think that there are a lot of waste of time degrees out there.
That’s part of the review. A full time degree in say Chemistry, engineering or medicine certainly justifies the fees.... but a degree in “Beckham Studies” or whatever....sorry just a joke.
Interesting Martin Lewis show last week...focussed on student “debt” and how the interest etc is pretty much ‘notional’.
Students have NO upfront costs. Only start paying back in April after they finish and pay just 9% of earnings above £25k (from this April).
My youngest daughter graduated last June with a masters in chemistry. She got a job @£31k. Her total debt is around £68k (four year degree). She will start paying back @ £540 per year (£45/month) ...hardly going to break the bank!
At that rate...in 30 years she will pay back £16200 in total. The rest is then wiped!
If fees were £3million a year and interest rates 100%..... she would still just pay back £16200 in total. (Anyone whose wages are below £25k will pay NOTHING back...ever)
As Martin Lewis said..... the fees and interest rates are irrelevant.....unless you are earning £100k plus you will be virtually unaffected by the interest. Only the very rich, high earners will pay their loans back in full..... so it is designed to be aimed at the rich and not the poor....
Wether any fees are right or wrong is a point for debate...but these above are the facts on which to base your judgements.
Hmm....it's currently 9% of anything earned over 21k, so in your example £75 per month.
"
Soon to be £25k. Unless you earn £45k+, then you only pay back a miniscule amount. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Great Britain are states and country also. England, Scotland, Wales are states in a country GB. every states can have their own laws or regulations. Universities have become private companies since they started charging fees: they need to make profits for investors.  |
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"If GB stands for Great Britain in this title thread
Then surely you would know in Scotland students do not pay for any fees
What you mean is England and Wales really no worries correcting that bit of misinformation lol
As you well know, some students in Scotland pay fees.
First of where is the thanks for correcting the misinformation wouldnt want people getting the wrong idea now that Scotland being lumped in this issue of fees when fees in Scotland are free
Now to address your wee comment yes students outside of Scotland that come here to student have to pay as the problem would be they would be taking up places of Scottish students
And if Scottish students move to England to study in uni they have to pay for the fees for their education let it sink in
Every child / student has the right to an education free of course not for mommy and daddy to pay their kids education or worse case that kid having debts set on them for life
And what about all the non-UK EU students that get free university education.
Assuming the costs are coming out of general taxation, and assuming that you work and pay tax, you are paying for Polish, Bulgarian, French students to be educated.
Not in England / Scotland / Wales where the fees are the same as UK students...."
In Scotland EU students don't pay tuition fees. The costs of this are creeping up to the £100m per year level. We're basically subsidising relatively wealthy foreign students (as it tends to be wealthier students who travel abroad to study). And the numbers have shot up a fair bit in recent years. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
EUROPEAN UNION STUDENTS
The tuition fee you pay will vary depending on your fee status and your programme. Tuition fees are detailed in the table below.
For many applicants, your fee status is the same as your current country of residence
That is from the Uni of Glasgow |
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"EUROPEAN UNION STUDENTS
The tuition fee you pay will vary depending on your fee status and your programme. Tuition fees are detailed in the table below.
For many applicants, your fee status is the same as your current country of residence
That is from the Uni of Glasgow "
And those fees are paid by SAAS. This was covered extensively above. Not my fault you're not bright enough to understand that.
As you don't pay income tax you're not financing this anyway |
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
And just to put the final nail in this coffin, here's the Scottish government website. This is from a few years back when Mike Russel was complaining about the cost (of course he's not allowed to now the SNP are suddenly so pro EU):
http://www.gov.scot/News/Releases/2011/01/13105353
"European law means that the Scottish Government is obliged to pay the fees of students living in non-UK EU countries - at a cost of more than £75 million a year in 2009-10 compared to £20 million in 2000-01 when 8,195 EU students came to Scotland.
As part of the ongoing debate over the future of higher education, Mr Russell is seeking to end an anomaly that sees students from across Europe receive free education."
'Having already written to EU Commissioner Androulla Vassiliou, I intend to seek a meeting with her to discuss the issue when I visit Brussels next month. The number of EU students has almost doubled in recent years and the total cost has risen almost fourfold. The Scottish taxpayer is now facing a bill of £75 million a year. That is simply not tenable.'
The number of EU students in Scotland in 2000-01 was 8,195. In 2009-10 it had almost doubled to 15,930. By 2015-16 it had increased again to 20,945
And further evidence from the Scottish govt
https://beta.gov.scot/news/reassurance-for-eu-students/
And yet more from the Scottish govt
https://beta.gov.scot/news/eu-student-status-confirmed/
There's lots of it |
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"Personally I think that there are a lot of waste of time degrees out there.
That’s part of the review. A full time degree in say Chemistry, engineering or medicine certainly justifies the fees.... but a degree in “Beckham Studies” or whatever....sorry just a joke.
Interesting Martin Lewis show last week...focussed on student “debt” and how the interest etc is pretty much ‘notional’.
Students have NO upfront costs. Only start paying back in April after they finish and pay just 9% of earnings above £25k (from this April).
My youngest daughter graduated last June with a masters in chemistry. She got a job @£31k. Her total debt is around £68k (four year degree). She will start paying back @ £540 per year (£45/month) ...hardly going to break the bank!
At that rate...in 30 years she will pay back £16200 in total. The rest is then wiped!
If fees were £3million a year and interest rates 100%..... she would still just pay back £16200 in total. (Anyone whose wages are below £25k will pay NOTHING back...ever)
As Martin Lewis said..... the fees and interest rates are irrelevant.....unless you are earning £100k plus you will be virtually unaffected by the interest. Only the very rich, high earners will pay their loans back in full..... so it is designed to be aimed at the rich and not the poor....
Wether any fees are right or wrong is a point for debate...but these above are the facts on which to base your judgements.
Hmm....it's currently 9% of anything earned over 21k, so in your example £75 per month.
Soon to be £25k. Unless you earn £45k+, then you only pay back a miniscule amount."
Of course, the less that remains not paid back, is still accruing interest. That means that the total that could be paid back by many students is vastly in excess of £9000 tuition fees, where interest is charge from the point that it's borrowed.
It's also known that the contractual terms of the borrowing can be changed by the organisation that holds the debt. Interest rates and other charges can go up and up  |
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My youngest daughter graduated last June with a masters in chemistry. She got a job @£31k. Her total debt is around £68k (four year degree). She will start paying back @ £540 per year (£45/month) ...hardly going to break the bank!
At that rate...in 30 years she will pay back £16200 in total. The rest is then wiped!
If fees were £3million a year and interest rates 100%..... she would still just pay back £16200 in total. (Anyone whose wages are below £25k will pay NOTHING back...ever
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How nice for her. I graduated in 99 also with a masters in chemistry. Took till 2012 for me to get a permanent, full time, not nmw job. My student loan is €10000 and i will never earn enough to even start paying the £100/month min payment and in 10 years it will be written off. How does that benefit society? |
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