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Referenda
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
Just an interesting fact I just learned.
Switzerland is one of the world's oldest democracies. They make a lot of decisions with referenda.
Women couldn't vote until 1971 because men kept saying no.
It's pertinent now because of what May said recently:
“But of course it’s also important that the government does what the British people want us to do — the British people want us to leave the European Union and that is what we will be doing.”
Just for a change it's not so much the topic of what she said that I'm interested in, more the sentiment. What we want is not always good for us.
Diet, alcohol, global warming...
Another difficult balance between how to get democracy to work. Public demand vs how to deliver maximum benefit to them over the long term. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
Sometimes we need the state to protect us from ourselves. Look at seatbelt laws, motorcycle helmet laws, plastic bag levy, etc. The public can't always be trusted to do what's in their best interest.
Another interesting place to Look at if you are particularly interested in referenda/referendums, is California. Citizens themselves can initiate them. I bet kinky would love that for Scotland! |
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The government should understand and be guided by the public that they represent but must also take responsibility for areas where specialist knowledge is required, so must guide education but ultimately retain control.
There have historically been instances where the tyranny of the masses was a just cause for the government to work against, in the greater good of society - decriminalising gay male sex, when many public and government were very against it, preferring to keep a sizeable number of people liable to incarceration just for being themselves. |
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If we had used the Swiss version of mandatory and we got everyone to vote then we would have a clear view as to whether we Brexit or Remain.
Sadly our referendum, for possibly the most important decision in a lifetime, was purely optional, didn’t have and requirements for a certain proportion voting or a clear majority to be decisive. So the reason why everyone disagrees is that we never had a chance because the voting mechanism was wrong.
Also having a referendum that was only advisory, rather than mandatory has left it in a poor position legally.
18 months after the vote and we still do not know what Brexit means, this is criminal. This should not be about the Tories deciding our future, this should be about the whole nation - maybe time for a National Unity Government with all parties represented? |
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Many democracies mandate voting & it is about as far away from Dictatorship as you can get. For momentous decisions like Scottish Independence or Brexit this should have beeb in place. It is the only way to reach decisions that clearly have a mandate. You could also easily say that changes from the status quo have to have a clear 5% majority rather than a simple 1 vote if you want to make it even more representative and avoiding arguments. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Voting is compulsory in Australia. Failure to vote at a federal election without a valid and sufficient reason is an offence under section 245 of the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918. You are required to pay the $20 penalty.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Voting is compulsory in Australia. Failure to vote at a federal election without a valid and sufficient reason is an offence under section 245 of the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918. You are required to pay the $20 penalty.
"
so do you suggest this only for referendums or parliament voting of MP's / MSP's as well? |
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Mandating voting is a tad risky without the infrastructure around it. We have little in the way of history of encouraging critical thought, research, or seeing the shades in an argument.
So we’d be telling 30% of the population to put an x in a box based on ... newspaper headlines ? The latest Facebook meme? The simplest analogy which helps them think they are making an informed decision ? What was printed on the brightest red bus ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think compulsory voting would be a good way to push people into greater political involvement."
so do you suggest this only for referendums or parliament voting of MP's / MSP's as well? |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"If we had used the Swiss version of mandatory and we got everyone to vote then we would have a clear view as to whether we Brexit or Remain.
Sadly our referendum, for possibly the most important decision in a lifetime, was purely optional, didn’t have and requirements for a certain proportion voting or a clear majority to be decisive. So the reason why everyone disagrees is that we never had a chance because the voting mechanism was wrong.
Also having a referendum that was only advisory, rather than mandatory has left it in a poor position legally.
18 months after the vote and we still do not know what Brexit means, this is criminal. This should not be about the Tories deciding our future, this should be about the whole nation - maybe time for a National Unity Government with all parties represented?"
I'm not sure that voting is mandatory in Switzerland. The last federal elections the turnout was about 50%. The same with their last 3 reference. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Voting is compulsory in Australia. Failure to vote at a federal election without a valid and sufficient reason is an offence under section 245 of the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918. You are required to pay the $20 penalty.
so do you suggest this only for referendums or parliament voting of MP's / MSP's as well?"
Yes General elections and referendums. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Voting is compulsory in Australia. Failure to vote at a federal election without a valid and sufficient reason is an offence under section 245 of the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918. You are required to pay the $20 penalty.
so do you suggest this only for referendums or parliament voting of MP's / MSP's as well? Yes General elections and referendums."
Then I would pay the fine, or spoil ballet paper
I have voted SNP 30 years but over the past year I have lost faith in them
But
there is no other party I consider would look after Scottish interests
so next vote I remove my vote from SNP, but do not consider any other party worth voting for.
so its a no vote from me |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If we had used the Swiss version of mandatory and we got everyone to vote then we would have a clear view as to whether we Brexit or Remain.
Sadly our referendum, for possibly the most important decision in a lifetime, was purely optional, didn’t have and requirements for a certain proportion voting or a clear majority to be decisive. So the reason why everyone disagrees is that we never had a chance because the voting mechanism was wrong.
Also having a referendum that was only advisory, rather than mandatory has left it in a poor position legally.
18 months after the vote and we still do not know what Brexit means, this is criminal. This should not be about the Tories deciding our future, this should be about the whole nation - maybe time for a National Unity Government with all parties represented?"
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Voting is compulsory in Australia. Failure to vote at a federal election without a valid and sufficient reason is an offence under section 245 of the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918. You are required to pay the $20 penalty.
so do you suggest this only for referendums or parliament voting of MP's / MSP's as well? Yes General elections and referendums.
Then I would pay the fine, or spoil ballet paper
I have voted SNP 30 years but over the past year I have lost faith in them
But
there is no other party I consider would look after Scottish interests
so next vote I remove my vote from SNP, but do not consider any other party worth voting for.
so its a no vote from me"
Or simply write on the ballot "none of the above" - a vote which is invalid but if there were sufficient someone would take more notice. It's 100 yrs since women won the right to vote and everyone should take an exercise their right. It's not often we get the chance to have a say! |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Voting is compulsory in Australia. Failure to vote at a federal election without a valid and sufficient reason is an offence under section 245 of the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918. You are required to pay the $20 penalty.
so do you suggest this only for referendums or parliament voting of MP's / MSP's as well?"
see.... what it doesn't stop you from doing is going in and spoiling yout ballot paper.... but at least you followed the democratic process.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Voting is compulsory in Australia. Failure to vote at a federal election without a valid and sufficient reason is an offence under section 245 of the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918. You are required to pay the $20 penalty.
so do you suggest this only for referendums or parliament voting of MP's / MSP's as well?
see.... what it doesn't stop you from doing is going in and spoiling yout ballot paper.... but at least you followed the democratic process...."
I wouldn't be going in anywhere, it would be a postal vote for me
but as I say, snp loose my vote next time, but also remember no other party is worth considering in Scotland |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hopefully they bring in digital voting as we are now in the digital age . Everything is online and so should voting be.
sniff
are you stirring shit  "
No I want to increase voter turnout and get more young people voting.It would change the political landscape.If it rains voter turnout is low.We live in the 21st century.It will happen.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hopefully they bring in digital voting as we are now in the digital age . Everything is online and so should voting be.
sniff
are you stirring shit
No I want to increase voter turnout and get more young people voting.It would change the political landscape.If it rains voter turnout is low.We live in the 21st century.It will happen. "
do you think digital voting would be open to corruption/hacking?
You don't normally get wet with a postal vote!
You would think the younger population would be more "hardy" to rain and still turn out, where as the elderly and less agile would be more likely to stay home, perhaps that is not the case, perhaps the young are more bone idle? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hopefully they bring in digital voting as we are now in the digital age . Everything is online and so should voting be.
sniff
are you stirring shit
No I want to increase voter turnout and get more young people voting.It would change the political landscape.If it rains voter turnout is low.We live in the 21st century.It will happen.
do you think digital voting would be open to corruption/hacking?
You don't normally get wet with a postal vote!
You would think the younger population would be more "hardy" to rain and still turn out, where as the elderly and less agile would be more likely to stay home, perhaps that is not the case, perhaps the young are more bone idle?"
It well known rain effects turnout.Id like to be able to vote on my phone.I bet most here are happy to do all your banking online.If you can trust that why not vote online. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hopefully they bring in digital voting as we are now in the digital age . Everything is online and so should voting be.
sniff
are you stirring shit
No I want to increase voter turnout and get more young people voting.It would change the political landscape.If it rains voter turnout is low.We live in the 21st century.It will happen.
do you think digital voting would be open to corruption/hacking?
You don't normally get wet with a postal vote!
You would think the younger population would be more "hardy" to rain and still turn out, where as the elderly and less agile would be more likely to stay home, perhaps that is not the case, perhaps the young are more bone idle? It well known rain effects turnout.Id like to be able to vote on my phone.I bet most here are happy to do all your banking online.If you can trust that why not vote online."
Possibly,
I do online banking with desktop pc which is what I consider fairly secure with latest anti virus software etc but I would never use internet banking on my phone
I don't use any "suspect/dodgy" sites on my desktop pc, including the likes of fab etc
keep it strictly for business and photography
no chance in hell would I do banking on phone in fear of losing phone, perhaps that's why you call me grandad |
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"If we had used the Swiss version of mandatory and we got everyone to vote then we would have a clear view as to whether we Brexit or Remain.
Sadly our referendum, for possibly the most important decision in a lifetime, was purely optional, didn’t have and requirements for a certain proportion voting or a clear majority to be decisive. So the reason why everyone disagrees is that we never had a chance because the voting mechanism was wrong.
Also having a referendum that was only advisory, rather than mandatory has left it in a poor position legally.
18 months after the vote and we still do not know what Brexit means, this is criminal. This should not be about the Tories deciding our future, this should be about the whole nation - maybe time for a National Unity Government with all parties represented?
I'm not sure that voting is mandatory in Switzerland. The last federal elections the turnout was about 50%. The same with their last 3 reference."
They have mandatory referendum categories and non mandatory, so it depends on the seriousness of thw question put to the voting population. |
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"Hopefully they bring in digital voting as we are now in the digital age . Everything is online and so should voting be.
sniff
are you stirring shit
No I want to increase voter turnout and get more young people voting.It would change the political landscape.If it rains voter turnout is low.We live in the 21st century.It will happen.
do you think digital voting would be open to corruption/hacking?
You don't normally get wet with a postal vote!
You would think the younger population would be more "hardy" to rain and still turn out, where as the elderly and less agile would be more likely to stay home, perhaps that is not the case, perhaps the young are more bone idle? It well known rain effects turnout.Id like to be able to vote on my phone.I bet most here are happy to do all your banking online.If you can trust that why not vote online.
Possibly,
I do online banking with desktop pc which is what I consider fairly secure with latest anti virus software etc but I would never use internet banking on my phone
I don't use any "suspect/dodgy" sites on my desktop pc, including the likes of fab etc
keep it strictly for business and photography
no chance in hell would I do banking on phone in fear of losing phone, perhaps that's why you call me grandad "
I am not a fan of digital or postal voting. both are widely abused. having people come to a polling booth with ID seems the right way forward. Maybe we should make the day a public holiday as well to enable voting? |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Hopefully they bring in digital voting as we are now in the digital age . Everything is online and so should voting be.
sniff
are you stirring shit
No I want to increase voter turnout and get more young people voting.It would change the political landscape.If it rains voter turnout is low.We live in the 21st century.It will happen.
do you think digital voting would be open to corruption/hacking?
You don't normally get wet with a postal vote!
You would think the younger population would be more "hardy" to rain and still turn out, where as the elderly and less agile would be more likely to stay home, perhaps that is not the case, perhaps the young are more bone idle? It well known rain effects turnout.Id like to be able to vote on my phone.I bet most here are happy to do all your banking online.If you can trust that why not vote online.
Possibly,
I do online banking with desktop pc which is what I consider fairly secure with latest anti virus software etc but I would never use internet banking on my phone
I don't use any "suspect/dodgy" sites on my desktop pc, including the likes of fab etc
keep it strictly for business and photography
no chance in hell would I do banking on phone in fear of losing phone, perhaps that's why you call me grandad
I am not a fan of digital or postal voting. both are widely abused. having people come to a polling booth with ID seems the right way forward. Maybe we should make the day a public holiday as well to enable voting?"
Australian elections are always on a Saturday. I'm not sure what our fixation is for having a Thursday for voting day, purely historical I guess? |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Hopefully they bring in digital voting as we are now in the digital age . Everything is online and so should voting be.
sniff
are you stirring shit
No I want to increase voter turnout and get more young people voting.It would change the political landscape.If it rains voter turnout is low.We live in the 21st century.It will happen. "
Isn't it usually less Labour voters turn out of it rains? I heard that a few years ago. Hence Kinnock's "the sun is out and so are the Tories" jibe.... |
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General elections and referenda that are not simply advisory, where government would only take note of the data. It could be increased to local authority elections too, increasing citizens involvement with local issues.
I'd not rush to online voting, as we can have local people visiting local stations to vote or via post as now. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
General elections and referenda that are not simply advisory, where government would only take note of the data. It could be increased to local authority elections too, increasing citizens involvement with local issues.
I'd not rush to online voting, as we can have local people visiting local stations to vote or via post as now."
Local politics doesn't get the respect it deserves. Most people don't know their local councillors, or which party controls the council. I watched an interesting video once from either a district or a country councillor and he was saying that parish councils are where the action is.
We don't pay district/county/UA councillors enough, so we don't get the right people, and we dont put them under as much scrutiny, but they affect things locally. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
General elections and referenda that are not simply advisory, where government would only take note of the data. It could be increased to local authority elections too, increasing citizens involvement with local issues.
I'd not rush to online voting, as we can have local people visiting local stations to vote or via post as now.
Local politics doesn't get the respect it deserves. Most people don't know their local councillors, or which party controls the council. I watched an interesting video once from either a district or a country councillor and he was saying that parish councils are where the action is.
We don't pay district/county/UA councillors enough, so we don't get the right people, and we dont put them under as much scrutiny, but they affect things locally."
Totally disagree, local politics & councillors are essential for getting assistance and backing
I managed to get a £200,000 flood wall built for my last property via communication with councillors & local MSP (Rosanna Cunningham) at the time |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Compulsory voting or prison or a really really high fine would be great.
Dictatorship "
or a box for none of the above !!!
If you have to go to the polls it might focus none voters minds !!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Compulsory voting or prison or a really really high fine would be great.
Dictatorship
or a box for none of the above !!!
If you have to go to the polls it might focus none voters minds !!!!"
Waiting patiently for a tick box for Alex Salmond again. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
General elections and referenda that are not simply advisory, where government would only take note of the data. It could be increased to local authority elections too, increasing citizens involvement with local issues.
I'd not rush to online voting, as we can have local people visiting local stations to vote or via post as now.
Local politics doesn't get the respect it deserves. Most people don't know their local councillors, or which party controls the council. I watched an interesting video once from either a district or a country councillor and he was saying that parish councils are where the action is.
We don't pay district/county/UA councillors enough, so we don't get the right people, and we dont put them under as much scrutiny, but they affect things locally.
Totally disagree, local politics & councillors are essential for getting assistance and backing
I managed to get a £200,000 flood wall built for my last property via communication with councillors & local MSP (Rosanna Cunningham) at the time "
So which part do you disagree with? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
General elections and referenda that are not simply advisory, where government would only take note of the data. It could be increased to local authority elections too, increasing citizens involvement with local issues.
I'd not rush to online voting, as we can have local people visiting local stations to vote or via post as now.
Local politics doesn't get the respect it deserves. Most people don't know their local councillors, or which party controls the council. I watched an interesting video once from either a district or a country councillor and he was saying that parish councils are where the action is.
We don't pay district/county/UA councillors enough, so we don't get the right people, and we dont put them under as much scrutiny, but they affect things locally.
Totally disagree, local politics & councillors are essential for getting assistance and backing
I managed to get a £200,000 flood wall built for my last property via communication with councillors & local MSP (Rosanna Cunningham) at the time
So which part do you disagree with? "
the part where you say: Local politics doesn't get the respect it deserves. Most people don't know their local councillors, or which party controls the council |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
General elections and referenda that are not simply advisory, where government would only take note of the data. It could be increased to local authority elections too, increasing citizens involvement with local issues.
I'd not rush to online voting, as we can have local people visiting local stations to vote or via post as now.
Local politics doesn't get the respect it deserves. Most people don't know their local councillors, or which party controls the council. I watched an interesting video once from either a district or a country councillor and he was saying that parish councils are where the action is.
We don't pay district/county/UA councillors enough, so we don't get the right people, and we dont put them under as much scrutiny, but they affect things locally.
Totally disagree, local politics & councillors are essential for getting assistance and backing
I managed to get a £200,000 flood wall built for my last property via communication with councillors & local MSP (Rosanna Cunningham) at the time
So which part do you disagree with?
the part where you say: Local politics doesn't get the respect it deserves. Most people don't know their local councillors, or which party controls the council"
So you think that it is respected, and most people know who their local councillors are? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
General elections and referenda that are not simply advisory, where government would only take note of the data. It could be increased to local authority elections too, increasing citizens involvement with local issues.
I'd not rush to online voting, as we can have local people visiting local stations to vote or via post as now.
Local politics doesn't get the respect it deserves. Most people don't know their local councillors, or which party controls the council. I watched an interesting video once from either a district or a country councillor and he was saying that parish councils are where the action is.
We don't pay district/county/UA councillors enough, so we don't get the right people, and we dont put them under as much scrutiny, but they affect things locally.
Totally disagree, local politics & councillors are essential for getting assistance and backing
I managed to get a £200,000 flood wall built for my last property via communication with councillors & local MSP (Rosanna Cunningham) at the time
So which part do you disagree with?
the part where you say: Local politics doesn't get the respect it deserves. Most people don't know their local councillors, or which party controls the council
So you think that it is respected, and most people know who their local councillors are?"
In Rural Kinross & Perthshire, most definitely, sometimes its the only way to get things done, constant contact with regards to roads, flooding & countryside issues
many people use this method and attend regular meetings with councillors and local MP's
John Sweeney has regular work shops as does other local MSP's |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
General elections and referenda that are not simply advisory, where government would only take note of the data. It could be increased to local authority elections too, increasing citizens involvement with local issues.
I'd not rush to online voting, as we can have local people visiting local stations to vote or via post as now.
Local politics doesn't get the respect it deserves. Most people don't know their local councillors, or which party controls the council. I watched an interesting video once from either a district or a country councillor and he was saying that parish councils are where the action is.
We don't pay district/county/UA councillors enough, so we don't get the right people, and we dont put them under as much scrutiny, but they affect things locally.
Totally disagree, local politics & councillors are essential for getting assistance and backing
I managed to get a £200,000 flood wall built for my last property via communication with councillors & local MSP (Rosanna Cunningham) at the time
So which part do you disagree with?
the part where you say: Local politics doesn't get the respect it deserves. Most people don't know their local councillors, or which party controls the council
So you think that it is respected, and most people know who their local councillors are?
In Rural Kinross & Perthshire, most definitely, sometimes its the only way to get things done, constant contact with regards to roads, flooding & countryside issues
many people use this method and attend regular meetings with councillors and local MP's
John Sweeney has regular work shops as does other local MSP's"
OK, here is proof to support my hypothesis that most people don't know their local politicians.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22555659
Where is your proof to support your argument that they do? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
General elections and referenda that are not simply advisory, where government would only take note of the data. It could be increased to local authority elections too, increasing citizens involvement with local issues.
I'd not rush to online voting, as we can have local people visiting local stations to vote or via post as now.
Local politics doesn't get the respect it deserves. Most people don't know their local councillors, or which party controls the council. I watched an interesting video once from either a district or a country councillor and he was saying that parish councils are where the action is.
We don't pay district/county/UA councillors enough, so we don't get the right people, and we dont put them under as much scrutiny, but they affect things locally.
Totally disagree, local politics & councillors are essential for getting assistance and backing
I managed to get a £200,000 flood wall built for my last property via communication with councillors & local MSP (Rosanna Cunningham) at the time
So which part do you disagree with?
the part where you say: Local politics doesn't get the respect it deserves. Most people don't know their local councillors, or which party controls the council
So you think that it is respected, and most people know who their local councillors are?
In Rural Kinross & Perthshire, most definitely, sometimes its the only way to get things done, constant contact with regards to roads, flooding & countryside issues
many people use this method and attend regular meetings with councillors and local MP's
John Sweeney has regular work shops as does other local MSP's
OK, here is proof to support my hypothesis that most people don't know their local politicians.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22555659
Where is your proof to support your argument that they do? "
fuck sake CLCC, give it a fucking break, your simply reading a snip from the BBC
All I need to know is I attend my local meetings and the village halls & town houses are full with locals, there to listen and also to vent their opinions & concerns
these meetings work for us up here in Scotland,
perhaps down you are too soaked up with your own importance that you fail to attend these meetings, that if your MP's can be arsed with you
Perhaps they get all your input from on here! |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
General elections and referenda that are not simply advisory, where government would only take note of the data. It could be increased to local authority elections too, increasing citizens involvement with local issues.
I'd not rush to online voting, as we can have local people visiting local stations to vote or via post as now.
Local politics doesn't get the respect it deserves. Most people don't know their local councillors, or which party controls the council. I watched an interesting video once from either a district or a country councillor and he was saying that parish councils are where the action is.
We don't pay district/county/UA councillors enough, so we don't get the right people, and we dont put them under as much scrutiny, but they affect things locally.
Totally disagree, local politics & councillors are essential for getting assistance and backing
I managed to get a £200,000 flood wall built for my last property via communication with councillors & local MSP (Rosanna Cunningham) at the time
So which part do you disagree with?
the part where you say: Local politics doesn't get the respect it deserves. Most people don't know their local councillors, or which party controls the council
So you think that it is respected, and most people know who their local councillors are?
In Rural Kinross & Perthshire, most definitely, sometimes its the only way to get things done, constant contact with regards to roads, flooding & countryside issues
many people use this method and attend regular meetings with councillors and local MP's
John Sweeney has regular work shops as does other local MSP's
OK, here is proof to support my hypothesis that most people don't know their local politicians.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22555659
Where is your proof to support your argument that they do?
fuck sake CLCC, give it a fucking break, your simply reading a snip from the BBC
All I need to know is I attend my local meetings and the village halls & town houses are full with locals, there to listen and also to vent their opinions & concerns
these meetings work for us up here in Scotland,
perhaps down you are too soaked up with your own importance that you fail to attend these meetings, that if your MP's can be arsed with you
Perhaps they get all your input from on here!"
Right, so no proof them
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Just an interesting fact I just learned.
Switzerland is one of the world's oldest democracies. They make a lot of decisions with referenda.
Women couldn't vote until 1971 because men kept saying no.
It's pertinent now because of what May said recently:
“But of course it’s also important that the government does what the British people want us to do — the British people want us to leave the European Union and that is what we will be doing.”
Just for a change it's not so much the topic of what she said that I'm interested in, more the sentiment. What we want is not always good for us.
Diet, alcohol, global warming...
Another difficult balance between how to get democracy to work. Public demand vs how to deliver maximum benefit to them over the long term."
I think it was Rosevelt that said it but he said,democracy is not perfect but it is the best form of government we know of.
The government is elected to fullfill the will of the majority but also has a responsibility of care.it is a balancing act and a hard one.I do believe that May is trying but failing sadly but I respect her for trying |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Mrs Maygabe is a power crazed despot. she has clearly demonstrated contempt for the population and is merely clinging to power desperately for as long as she possibly can .... if she had any dignity she would admit she has fucked the country beyond the point of repair and promptly walk under a train, to use a political euphamism ... her and her like are disgusting filth |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Mrs Maygabe is a power crazed despot. she has clearly demonstrated contempt for the population and is merely clinging to power desperately for as long as she possibly can .... if she had any dignity she would admit she has fucked the country beyond the point of repair and promptly walk under a train, to use a political euphamism ... her and her like are disgusting filth"
so very very true and her husband was the same as are many other leaders sadly
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Mrs Maygabe is a power crazed despot. she has clearly demonstrated contempt for the population and is merely clinging to power desperately for as long as she possibly can .... if she had any dignity she would admit she has fucked the country beyond the point of repair and promptly walk under a train, to use a political euphamism ... her and her like are disgusting filthso very very true and her husband was the same as are many other leaders sadly"
i agree ... theresa maygabe is the worst prime minister that british isles has ever been forced to endure |
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"Mandating voting is a tad risky without the infrastructure around it. We have little in the way of history of encouraging critical thought, research, or seeing the shades in an argument.
So we’d be telling 30% of the population to put an x in a box based on ... newspaper headlines ? The latest Facebook meme? The simplest analogy which helps them think they are making an informed decision ? What was printed on the brightest red bus ?"
Or a prediction from the Chancellor 15 years into the future, which is no more reliable than something Mystic Meg might say.  |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Mandating voting is a tad risky without the infrastructure around it. We have little in the way of history of encouraging critical thought, research, or seeing the shades in an argument.
So we’d be telling 30% of the population to put an x in a box based on ... newspaper headlines ? The latest Facebook meme? The simplest analogy which helps them think they are making an informed decision ? What was printed on the brightest red bus ?
Or a prediction from the Chancellor 15 years into the future, which is no more reliable than something Mystic Meg might say. "
So you're confirming that you also have no data to support leaving as being a good option? In fact, far less as there is far less historical data and non for a country leaving a powerful trading block.
It's faith. I don't mind that being the basis, but I do mind if it's being presented otherwise... |
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"Mandating voting is a tad risky without the infrastructure around it. We have little in the way of history of encouraging critical thought, research, or seeing the shades in an argument.
So we’d be telling 30% of the population to put an x in a box based on ... newspaper headlines ? The latest Facebook meme? The simplest analogy which helps them think they are making an informed decision ? What was printed on the brightest red bus ?
Or a prediction from the Chancellor 15 years into the future, which is no more reliable than something Mystic Meg might say.
So you're confirming that you also have no data to support leaving as being a good option? In fact, far less as there is far less historical data and non for a country leaving a powerful trading block.
It's faith. I don't mind that being the basis, but I do mind if it's being presented otherwise..."
I was just confirming that predictions made about leaving the EU by the Remain campaign were nonsense and indeed some predictions made by the Remain campaign about the effects of a leave vote alone have already been proved false. There was no previous data available about the effects of the UK not joining the Euro during the 00's as it was a new currency (although the same Europhiles then like Nick Clegg and Peter Mandelson said the UK would end up being an economic basket case if we didn't join the Euro, were they saying this in faith? These same people also happen to be the same Europhiles now scaremongering about economic armageddon if we leave the EU, the single market and the customs union), turns out keeping the pound and not joining the Euro was one of the best decisions this country ever made. Rather than being a decision based purely on faith you have to look at these individuals previous track records. |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Mandating voting is a tad risky without the infrastructure around it. We have little in the way of history of encouraging critical thought, research, or seeing the shades in an argument.
So we’d be telling 30% of the population to put an x in a box based on ... newspaper headlines ? The latest Facebook meme? The simplest analogy which helps them think they are making an informed decision ? What was printed on the brightest red bus ?
Or a prediction from the Chancellor 15 years into the future, which is no more reliable than something Mystic Meg might say.
So you're confirming that you also have no data to support leaving as being a good option? In fact, far less as there is far less historical data and non for a country leaving a powerful trading block.
It's faith. I don't mind that being the basis, but I do mind if it's being presented otherwise...
I was just confirming that predictions made about leaving the EU by the Remain campaign were nonsense and indeed some predictions made by the Remain campaign about the effects of a leave vote alone have already been proved false. There was no previous data available about the effects of the UK not joining the Euro during the 00's as it was a new currency (although the same Europhiles then like Nick Clegg and Peter Mandelson said the UK would end up being an economic basket case if we didn't join the Euro, were they saying this in faith? These same people also happen to be the same Europhiles now scaremongering about economic armageddon if we leave the EU, the single market and the customs union), turns out keeping the pound and not joining the Euro was one of the best decisions this country ever made. Rather than being a decision based purely on faith you have to look at these individuals previous track records. "
I'm not condoning anything that was said about the benefits of joining the Euro.
Many of the Remain predictions were incorrect. Certainly in terms of severity and speed. I have said that before.
Some, however, are proving to be true. The fall in the value of the pound, net emigration of the workforce and business uncertainty leading to delays in investment. Also the fact that there is unlikely to be any increase in domestic employment as leaving workers are being replaced by automation not natives.
However, all I am saying, and inviting you to either agree with or disagree with, is that the Leave argument has zero information to base any assertion on. Certainly no more credible than the Remain information that you claim was completely incorrect.
Will the entire mental edifice that you have constructed collapse if you accept this possibility?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Mandating voting is a tad risky without the infrastructure around it. We have little in the way of history of encouraging critical thought, research, or seeing the shades in an argument.
So we’d be telling 30% of the population to put an x in a box based on ... newspaper headlines ? The latest Facebook meme? The simplest analogy which helps them think they are making an informed decision ? What was printed on the brightest red bus ?
Or a prediction from the Chancellor 15 years into the future, which is no more reliable than something Mystic Meg might say.
So you're confirming that you also have no data to support leaving as being a good option? In fact, far less as there is far less historical data and non for a country leaving a powerful trading block.
It's faith. I don't mind that being the basis, but I do mind if it's being presented otherwise...
I was just confirming that predictions made about leaving the EU by the Remain campaign were nonsense and indeed some predictions made by the Remain campaign about the effects of a leave vote alone have already been proved false. There was no previous data available about the effects of the UK not joining the Euro during the 00's as it was a new currency (although the same Europhiles then like Nick Clegg and Peter Mandelson said the UK would end up being an economic basket case if we didn't join the Euro, were they saying this in faith? These same people also happen to be the same Europhiles now scaremongering about economic armageddon if we leave the EU, the single market and the customs union), turns out keeping the pound and not joining the Euro was one of the best decisions this country ever made. Rather than being a decision based purely on faith you have to look at these individuals previous track records. "
We were the top performing G7 economy - now bottom.
We were the 5th largest economy in the world - now 6/7th.
As I have always said time will tell but so far not looking positive. |
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