FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Labour Hypocrisy
Labour Hypocrisy
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
Anybody else appalled at the level of hypocrisy shown by Labour MPs appearing in all areas of the media today condemning the Tories, Carillion and the cost effectiveness of PFIs when it was New Labour who got the country in hock to these contracts?
The biggest hypocrite being Yvette Copper on breakfast TV, whose husband, Ed Balls, was at the centre of those decisions under Blair and Brown. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
there is only one problem with what you say OP...
It was the Tories under John Major who thought up and introduced PFI, and many of the projects that Labour gets blamed for where the contracts were drawn up by the Tories in such a way that it would cost more to pull out of them than to continue.
So I would agree the hypocrisy is appalling but mainly comes from Tories and Tory voters whose default position is to blame Labour for everything they do that goes wrong or is unpopular and claim credit for everything everyone else does that works and is popular. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"there is only one problem with what you say OP...
It was the Tories under John Major who thought up and introduced PFI, and many of the projects that Labour gets blamed for where the contracts were drawn up by the Tories in such a way that it would cost more to pull out of them than to continue.
So I would agree the hypocrisy is appalling but mainly comes from Tories and Tory voters whose default position is to blame Labour for everything they do that goes wrong or is unpopular and claim credit for everything everyone else does that works and is popular. "
Okay, if that's the case than fine I didn't appreciate that, thank you, but didn't New Labour expand PFI exponentially though and it's their hypocrisy that gets my goat, especially the likes of Yvette Cooper.
As a Labour party member I feel I can legitimately criticise them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"More cross party bollocks ....all in it for themselves or point scoring...think of the workers who have lost there jobs ...bet the big boys got there wages and xmas bonuses out in time "
Pretty hard to disagree..
The system is a mess and the principle of buy now pay excessively later is wrong for future generations..
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Anybody else appalled at the level of hypocrisy shown by Labour MPs appearing in all areas of the media today condemning the Tories, Carillion and the cost effectiveness of PFIs when it was New Labour who got the country in hock to these contracts?
The biggest hypocrite being Yvette Copper on breakfast TV, whose husband, Ed Balls, was at the centre of those decisions under Blair and Brown."
I don't think It's reasonable to blame Yvette Copper for the sins or otherwise of her husband. It's surely possible for a wife or husband to have a different point of view from their spouse or are we going back to the Victorian idea that held that a person was legally responsible for the actions of their spouse? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"More cross party bollocks ....all in it for themselves or point scoring...think of the workers who have lost there jobs ...bet the big boys got there wages and xmas bonuses out in time
Pretty hard to disagree..
The system is a mess and the principle of buy now pay excessively later is wrong for future generations..
"
.
The argument in America is no taxation without representation and I kinda get there point as most governments like to defer payment to a generation that's not even born let alone vote |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"there is only one problem with what you say OP...
It was the Tories under John Major who thought up and introduced PFI, and many of the projects that Labour gets blamed for where the contracts were drawn up by the Tories in such a way that it would cost more to pull out of them than to continue.
So I would agree the hypocrisy is appalling but mainly comes from Tories and Tory voters whose default position is to blame Labour for everything they do that goes wrong or is unpopular and claim credit for everything everyone else does that works and is popular. "
I’m NOT a Tory voter...but let’s get an element of truth into the debate.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/387225/current_projects_as_at_31_March_2014.xlsx
Excel spreadsheet link to government data site showing current PFI active contracts.
There are 1505 current PFI contracts on the list.
15 (that’s 1%) given under Major government. 78 since the 2010 election (5%)
ALL of the rest under Blair/Brown |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"More cross party bollocks ....all in it for themselves or point scoring...think of the workers who have lost there jobs ...bet the big boys got there wages and xmas bonuses out in time
Pretty hard to disagree..
The system is a mess and the principle of buy now pay excessively later is wrong for future generations..
"
I agree that there is a lot of cross party hypocrisy going on here but the hypocrisy is in trying to blame one party for the PFI mess when the reality is is that all parties that have been in government have used PFI and all of them have contributed to the situation that has lead to one company becoming almost a monopoly provider. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Anybody else appalled at the level of hypocrisy shown by Labour MPs appearing in all areas of the media today condemning the Tories, Carillion and the cost effectiveness of PFIs when it was New Labour who got the country in hock to these contracts?
The biggest hypocrite being Yvette Copper on breakfast TV, whose husband, Ed Balls, was at the centre of those decisions under Blair and Brown.
I don't think It's reasonable to blame Yvette Copper for the sins or otherwise of her husband. It's surely possible for a wife or husband to have a different point of view from their spouse or are we going back to the Victorian idea that held that a person was legally responsible for the actions of their spouse?"
So would you agree that the current UKIP leader should stay in post because the statements made , previously, by a girlfriend of less than one weeks standing, do not reflect on him? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Anybody else appalled at the level of hypocrisy shown by Labour MPs appearing in all areas of the media today condemning the Tories, Carillion and the cost effectiveness of PFIs when it was New Labour who got the country in hock to these contracts?
The biggest hypocrite being Yvette Copper on breakfast TV, whose husband, Ed Balls, was at the centre of those decisions under Blair and Brown.
I don't think It's reasonable to blame Yvette Copper for the sins or otherwise of her husband. It's surely possible for a wife or husband to have a different point of view from their spouse or are we going back to the Victorian idea that held that a person was legally responsible for the actions of their spouse?
So would you agree that the current UKIP leader should stay in post because the statements made , previously, by a girlfriend of less than one weeks standing, do not reflect on him?"
I'm really not that bothered about whether he stays or goes but, if I was pushed to give an answer, I'd say no he's not responsible for the comments or beliefs of his partner whether he's been with for 1 week or 1,000 weeks. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I do believe in the case of Carillon if that's what we are talking about...the Tories awarded these PFI contracts not Labour....in fact seen as Labour hasn't been in power for 8 years or so id find it pretty hard to blame them....and most of the PFI contracts awarded under Labour turned out well i also believe...but id stand corrected if anyone proves otherwise...but hey lets blame Labour YET again and burry our heads in the sand to this corrupt government we have  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"More cross party bollocks ....all in it for themselves or point scoring...think of the workers who have lost there jobs ...bet the big boys got there wages and xmas bonuses out in time
Pretty hard to disagree..
The system is a mess and the principle of buy now pay excessively later is wrong for future generations..
I agree that there is a lot of cross party hypocrisy going on here but the hypocrisy is in trying to blame one party for the PFI mess when the reality is is that all parties that have been in government have used PFI and all of them have contributed to the situation that has lead to one company becoming almost a monopoly provider."
Agree..
It's the principle of not wanting to say to the public that the new school or hospital etc will cost x or y, and that means we may have to raise taxes as one way of paying for it but they are all in this we will reduce taxes now but you an we as UK plc will be paying 4,5 or 6 times more over a 30 year period..
It's called backstreet lending at one level and pfi at a national level..
Big shiny new toys when its done through the tally man is not financially sensible.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"there is only one problem with what you say OP...
It was the Tories under John Major who thought up and introduced PFI, and many of the projects that Labour gets blamed for where the contracts were drawn up by the Tories in such a way that it would cost more to pull out of them than to continue.
So I would agree the hypocrisy is appalling but mainly comes from Tories and Tory voters whose default position is to blame Labour for everything they do that goes wrong or is unpopular and claim credit for everything everyone else does that works and is popular.
I’m NOT a Tory voter...but let’s get an element of truth into the debate.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/387225/current_projects_as_at_31_March_2014.xlsx
Excel spreadsheet link to government data site showing current PFI active contracts.
There are 1505 current PFI contracts on the list.
15 (that’s 1%) given under Major government. 78 since the 2010 election (5%)
ALL of the rest under Blair/Brown "
My forth coming comments are not meant to be condescending at all, I assure you.
Well done, that's fantastic, I couldn't have found that information out, New Labour may not have awarded Carillion but it clearly shows they paved the way.
My point about Cooper was she was in the thick of it with her husband and she was one of the MPs who has gone on TV to denounce PFIs, not by marriage she is guilty.
Wonder why Blair and Brown are keeping schtum at the minute and for that matter a certain "couple" on the Lounge thread about all of this.
A poster has said that must of the PFIs are cost effective, wouldn't mind seeing the figures that apparently prove that! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I do believe in the case of Carillon if that's what we are talking about...the Tories awarded these PFI contracts not Labour....in fact seen as Labour hasn't been in power for 8 years or so id find it pretty hard to blame them....and most of the PFI contracts awarded under Labour turned out well i also believe...but id stand corrected if anyone proves otherwise...but hey lets blame Labour YET again and burry our heads in the sand to this corrupt government we have "
Carrillon won its pfi in 2006 who was in power then, yes labour |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I do believe in the case of Carillon if that's what we are talking about...the Tories awarded these PFI contracts not Labour....in fact seen as Labour hasn't been in power for 8 years or so id find it pretty hard to blame them....and most of the PFI contracts awarded under Labour turned out well i also believe...but id stand corrected if anyone proves otherwise...but hey lets blame Labour YET again and burry our heads in the sand to this corrupt government we have
Carrillon won its pfi in 2006 who was in power then, yes labour"
So its took them 12 years to go bankrupt lol |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Take a look at the data sheet I published the link to above. The vast majority of the Carrilion contracts are long standing.
On balance some new ones have been awarded more recently most of the school and prison contracts were under Blair/Brown.
The big building one that keeps coming up is the new Liverpool Hospital. Awarded under Labour.
More recently they were awarded some HS2 contracts (specifically for some tunnels).
Both/all governments are implicated but if we are talking numbers then the massive increasetotal in all PFIs were in the 2000s. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Anybody else appalled at the level of hypocrisy shown by Labour MPs appearing in all areas of the media today condemning the Tories, Carillion and the cost effectiveness of PFIs when it was New Labour who got the country in hock to these contracts?
The biggest hypocrite being Yvette Copper on breakfast TV, whose husband, Ed Balls, was at the centre of those decisions under Blair and Brown.
I don't think It's reasonable to blame Yvette Copper for the sins or otherwise of her husband. It's surely possible for a wife or husband to have a different point of view from their spouse or are we going back to the Victorian idea that held that a person was legally responsible for the actions of their spouse?
So would you agree that the current UKIP leader should stay in post because the statements made , previously, by a girlfriend of less than one weeks standing, do not reflect on him?"
Sorry what has this got to do with this thread ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uxinteriorMan
over a year ago
south west , continental |
Got nothing to do with the thread! all threads on here tend to end up on Brexit, how jolly fantastic the Labour Party are, Trump bashing and Scottish Independence. It's just another Echo chamber. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I’m NOT a Tory voter...but let’s get an element of truth into the debate.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/387225/current_projects_as_at_31_March_2014.xlsx
Excel spreadsheet link to government data site showing current PFI active contracts.
There are 1505 current PFI contracts on the list.
15 (that’s 1%) given under Major government. 78 since the 2010 election (5%)
ALL of the rest under Blair/Brown "
Sorry for the late reply. The fact is still that PFI is a Tory construct, not Labour. Also Tone's New Labour was nothing more than a Torilite 'enterist' project to allow the Tories to make a further lurch to the right when CallMeDave (the pig fucker) eventually gained power while pretending to still be a centre right party.
As an aside, when I got into your link I noticed that the figures are not up to date. I wonder if you include the £18 BILLION (+ the guaranteed extra 20% (I seem to remember) to be paid by consumers for all electricity generated for 50 years) Hinkley Point C PFI if that would maybe change the colour of the landscape that is being portrayed here?
"Okay, if that's the case than fine I didn't appreciate that, thank you, but didn't New Labour expand PFI exponentially though and it's their hypocrisy that gets my goat, especially the likes of Yvette Cooper.
As a Labour party member I feel I can legitimately criticise them."
See above. Blair and New Labour was a brilliantly devised and enacted piece of Tory enterism (or infiltration) into the Labour party. In fact you can go back through every post I have ever made and you will see I have been consistent in calling New Labour either red Tories or torilite, the one thing that is absolutely sure is he was not a socialist or even a social democrat, he was and is a Tory. For gods sake he even abandoned the Anglican Church when it allowed the ordination of women! And how Died in the wool 'true blue Tory' is the attitude that spawned that bit of thinking? Even the majority of Tories where happy with the compromise that if they objected to having a female priest they could opt for a male cleric. 
Further I would like to point out exactly what PFI is. It is an accounting tool by which 'off the books' debt can be incurred in the form of high interest loans, nothing more nothing less. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I’m NOT a Tory voter...but let’s get an element of truth into the debate.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/387225/current_projects_as_at_31_March_2014.xlsx
Excel spreadsheet link to government data site showing current PFI active contracts.
There are 1505 current PFI contracts on the list.
15 (that’s 1%) given under Major government. 78 since the 2010 election (5%)
ALL of the rest under Blair/Brown
Sorry for the late reply. The fact is still that PFI is a Tory construct, not Labour. Also Tone's New Labour was nothing more than a Torilite 'enterist' project to allow the Tories to make a further lurch to the right when CallMeDave (the pig fucker) eventually gained power while pretending to still be a centre right party.
As an aside, when I got into your link I noticed that the figures are not up to date. I wonder if you include the £18 BILLION (+ the guaranteed extra 20% (I seem to remember) to be paid by consumers for all electricity generated for 50 years) Hinkley Point C PFI if that would maybe change the colour of the landscape that is being portrayed here?
Okay, if that's the case than fine I didn't appreciate that, thank you, but didn't New Labour expand PFI exponentially though and it's their hypocrisy that gets my goat, especially the likes of Yvette Cooper.
As a Labour party member I feel I can legitimately criticise them.
See above. Blair and New Labour was a brilliantly devised and enacted piece of Tory enterism (or infiltration) into the Labour party. In fact you can go back through every post I have ever made and you will see I have been consistent in calling New Labour either red Tories or torilite, the one thing that is absolutely sure is he was not a socialist or even a social democrat, he was and is a Tory. For gods sake he even abandoned the Anglican Church when it allowed the ordination of women! And how Died in the wool 'true blue Tory' is the attitude that spawned that bit of thinking? Even the majority of Tories where happy with the compromise that if they objected to having a female priest they could opt for a male cleric.
Further I would like to point out exactly what PFI is. It is an accounting tool by which 'off the books' debt can be incurred in the form of high interest loans, nothing more nothing less. "
So you're saying that The Labour party can't win anything unless they have a Tory (Blair) as leader, and that the real Labour party as you see it hasn't won anything since the 1970's.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Got nothing to do with the thread! all threads on here tend to end up on Brexit, how jolly fantastic the Labour Party are, Trump bashing and Scottish Independence. It's just another Echo chamber. "
I had noticed. So very much like the politicians of the day Childish point scoring squabbling pettiness. I'm out of here. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Got nothing to do with the thread! all threads on here tend to end up on Brexit, how jolly fantastic the Labour Party are, Trump bashing and Scottish Independence. It's just another Echo chamber.
I had noticed. So very much like the politicians of the day Childish point scoring squabbling pettiness. I'm out of here."
Yeah, it all seems to end up with 2 people trying to score points against one another. ???? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So you're saying that The Labour party can't win anything unless they have a Tory (Blair) as leader, and that the real Labour party as you see it hasn't won anything since the 1970's. "
I will willingly concede that. However you do understand that in claiming credit for your political affiliations you are also claiming that those you are so proud to support are also responsible for all the ills you claim are the fault of socialists for the last nearly 40 years and that you think that is something to laugh about.
you really are not that bright are you Centy? Guess you never learned how to play chess.
Maybe you should step away from the keyboard and concede now before you are made look like a total fool because at this point you are mated unless your going to toss the board and claim that that you have not lost.
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So you're saying that The Labour party can't win anything unless they have a Tory (Blair) as leader, and that the real Labour party as you see it hasn't won anything since the 1970's.
I will willingly concede that. However you do understand that in claiming credit for your political affiliations you are also claiming that those you are so proud to support are also responsible for all the ills you claim are the fault of socialists for the last nearly 40 years and that you think that is something to laugh about.
you really are not that bright are you Centy? Guess you never learned how to play chess.
Maybe you should step away from the keyboard and concede now before you are made look like a total fool because at this point you are mated unless your going to toss the board and claim that that you have not lost.
"
I've been neither a Tory or Labour supporter since the early 00's. I've said many times on this forum that I've been a ukip supporter since around 2003/4 during those Blair years which I think many of today's problems the country faces originated during the Blair years. What what it you were saying about chess again? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So you're saying that The Labour party can't win anything unless they have a Tory (Blair) as leader, and that the real Labour party as you see it hasn't won anything since the 1970's.
I will willingly concede that. However you do understand that in claiming credit for your political affiliations you are also claiming that those you are so proud to support are also responsible for all the ills you claim are the fault of socialists for the last nearly 40 years and that you think that is something to laugh about.
you really are not that bright are you Centy? Guess you never learned how to play chess.
Maybe you should step away from the keyboard and concede now before you are made look like a total fool because at this point you are mated unless your going to toss the board and claim that that you have not lost.
I've been neither a Tory or Labour supporter since the early 00's. I've said many times on this forum that I've been a ukip supporter since around 2003/4 during those Blair years which I think many of today's problems the country faces originated during the Blair years. What what it you were saying about chess again? "
Utter utter rubbish this government are the problems we are on a big slippery slope now untill the next election
We are all being shafted with this government I don’t understand how people can’t see it
Maybe go to spec savers |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"there is only one problem with what you say OP...
It was the Tories under John Major who thought up and introduced PFI, and many of the projects that Labour gets blamed for where the contracts were drawn up by the Tories in such a way that it would cost more to pull out of them than to continue.
So I would agree the hypocrisy is appalling but mainly comes from Tories and Tory voters whose default position is to blame Labour for everything they do that goes wrong or is unpopular and claim credit for everything everyone else does that works and is popular.
Okay, if that's the case than fine I didn't appreciate that, thank you, but didn't New Labour expand PFI exponentially though and it's their hypocrisy that gets my goat, especially the likes of Yvette Cooper.
As a Labour party member I feel I can legitimately criticise them."
The tories have also been in power for 7 years. How come they left things to run if it was so controversial? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I've been neither a Tory or Labour supporter since the early 00's. I've said many times on this forum that I've been a ukip supporter since around 2003/4 during those Blair years which I think many of today's problems the country faces originated during the Blair years. What what it you were saying about chess again? "
True, your proud to be a kipper and it is quite clear from your posts here that your are a either a closet fascist or fellow traveller, maybe even a full blown Neo-Nazi. And yes Centy every one of us is judging you to hell. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I've been neither a Tory or Labour supporter since the early 00's. I've said many times on this forum that I've been a ukip supporter since around 2003/4 during those Blair years which I think many of today's problems the country faces originated during the Blair years. What what it you were saying about chess again?
True, your proud to be a kipper and it is quite clear from your posts here that your are a either a closet fascist or fellow traveller, maybe even a full blown Neo-Nazi. And yes Centy every one of us is judging you to hell."
Judge all you like it doesn't make your assumptions right. Just for the record you're wrong on all counts there. I'm a working class ukip supporter who believes in democracy, free speech, freedom of expression and a free press. A free press that operates within the rules, guidelines and framework of the press regulations authority. Yes I even think newspapers I disagree with have a right to go on sale and the consumer has a right to freedom of choice (although you and your far left Marxist, Communist buddies on here have made no secret you'd like to see the free press restricted and papers like the Daily Mail shut down and prohibited from going on sale). Also 'others' on here who you 'claim' are judging me want to overturn democratic desicions and keep us in the EU even though the country voted Leave. I really don't need to explain myself to you though. It's not me behaving like a Nazi and a fascist here for that kind of behaviour I think you a your 'friends' need to look a lot closer to home, maybe even try looking in the mirror. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"there is only one problem with what you say OP...
It was the Tories under John Major who thought up and introduced PFI, and many of the projects that Labour gets blamed for where the contracts were drawn up by the Tories in such a way that it would cost more to pull out of them than to continue.
So I would agree the hypocrisy is appalling but mainly comes from Tories and Tory voters whose default position is to blame Labour for everything they do that goes wrong or is unpopular and claim credit for everything everyone else does that works and is popular.
Okay, if that's the case than fine I didn't appreciate that, thank you, but didn't New Labour expand PFI exponentially though and it's their hypocrisy that gets my goat, especially the likes of Yvette Cooper.
As a Labour party member I feel I can legitimately criticise them.
The tories have also been in power for 7 years. How come they left things to run if it was so controversial? "
They followed for the same reason previous governments did, "party now, pay later!" and the figures don't appear on the Chancellor's balance sheet. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uxinteriorMan
over a year ago
south west , continental |
"And yes Centy every one of us is judging you to hell.
Not quite...
You claim to speak for everyone but please don't include me."
And you don't speak for me either.
Centaur is entitled to his opinion. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"And yes Centy every one of us is judging you to hell.
Not quite...
You claim to speak for everyone but please don't include me."
Are you really saying your not judging Centy? Let me point something out to you I did not say how everyone is judging him, only me, I left Centy (and others) to draw his (and their) own conclusions there.
However I do find it interesting that only one person has distanced themselves from what I said and that although I continually say I am in favour of a mixed economy where services are held in trust by the government for the benefit of the British population according to Centy that makes me a Marxist commie. Of course the fact that we do have a mixed economy only the services held in trust are controlled by foreign countries and run for the benefit of the citizens of those countries seems to be too economically advanced for Centy to understand because he thinks that having the governments of China, France, Germany and The Netherlands running our vast swathes of our rail and power industries and transferring the profits they take to their exchequers while taking huge subsidies from our public purse is free market capitalism. In the same way as he does not understand that by defending Nazi's and white supremacists rights to peddle their garbage makes him at the very least an apologist for them and therefore a minimum of a fellow traveller.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Correction, 2 have distanced themselves from what I said...
I wonder if they are now going to distance themselves from what Centy said? Or maybe they share his beliefs but don't have the balls to come out and say what they really believe...
And yep Centy, I actually respect your willingness to openly say some of the things you do here. It takes balls to defend Nazis and call the vast majority violent vigilantes when they say Nazism and fascism must be opposed by all means including violence whenever it crawls out of the sewers. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"More cross party bollocks ....all in it for themselves or point scoring...think of the workers who have lost there jobs ...bet the big boys got there wages and xmas bonuses out in time "
Very true but really these directors should go to prison for a very long time,even if they give back there bonuses they will still be wealthy and having a good life.They allways get away with it whoever is in power
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Correction, 2 have distanced themselves from what I said...
I wonder if they are now going to distance themselves from what Centy said? Or maybe they share his beliefs but don't have the balls to come out and say what they really believe...
And yep Centy, I actually respect your willingness to openly say some of the things you do here. It takes balls to defend Nazis and call the vast majority violent vigilantes when they say Nazism and fascism must be opposed by all means including violence whenever it crawls out of the sewers."
So it's been established now that you don't actually speak for 'everyone' here as two posters have already publicly distanced themselves from your comments . I think you also need to realise that your name is not Judge Dredd, you can't go around acting like judge, jury and executioner and this in not Mega-city one. We have law and order and court process here in the UK and everyone has the right to due process in a court of law. I find your defence of vigilantes appalling and you are no better than the people you oppose. To use a UK example groups like the EDL and the UAF are just 2 sides of the same hate filled coin. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And yes Centy every one of us is judging you to hell.
Not quite...
You claim to speak for everyone but please don't include me.
Are you really saying your not judging Centy? Let me point something out to you I did not say how everyone is judging him, only me, I left Centy (and others) to draw his (and their) own conclusions there.
However I do find it interesting that only one person has distanced themselves from what I said and that although I continually say I am in favour of a mixed economy where services are held in trust by the government for the benefit of the British population according to Centy that makes me a Marxist commie. Of course the fact that we do have a mixed economy only the services held in trust are controlled by foreign countries and run for the benefit of the citizens of those countries seems to be too economically advanced for Centy to understand because he thinks that having the governments of China, France, Germany and The Netherlands running our vast swathes of our rail and power industries and transferring the profits they take to their exchequers while taking huge subsidies from our public purse is free market capitalism. In the same way as he does not understand that by defending Nazi's and white supremacists rights to peddle their garbage makes him at the very least an apologist for them and therefore a minimum of a fellow traveller.
"
That's correct, I am not judging him to hell (or anywhere else for that matter). I don't agree with everything he posts but I don't think he is a closet fascist or a full blown Neo-Nazi.
As for having the balls to come out and say what I really believe, you seem to know this far better than I do! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So it's been established now that you don't actually speak for 'everyone' here as two posters have already publicly distanced themselves from your comments . I think you also need to realise that your name is not Judge Dredd, you can't go around acting like judge, jury and executioner and this in not Mega-city one. We have law and order and court process here in the UK and everyone has the right to due process in a court of law. I find your defence of vigilantes appalling and you are no better than the people you oppose. To use a UK example groups like the EDL and the UAF are just 2 sides of the same hate filled coin. "
Interesting...
You equate anti fascists with fascists, and the EDL with the UAF and you point out that 2 more taking your side proves me wrong. Lets examine this critically and see if your position is tenable and at the same time ask what if anything we have learned about the 2 forumites who have distanced themselves from me.
Firstly lets take a look the definition of fascism:
a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
All fascists will tell you your either with them or against them, and if your of the same race and you are against them you are a race traitor. You and your 2 supporters clearly are not against them, guess that makes you for them and the only way to be for them is to be one of them (their definition not mine) so I guess that make you a fascist Centy, and I guess you and I have managed to out another couple today. Although I expect to be hearing howls of protest shortly because fascists and Nazi's have a tendency to deny their beliefs and do anything and everything possible to keep their true political loyalties hidden.
Again, I will point out to you that I never claimed I spoke for everyone. Go back and re read the post that has led to this exchange and pay note to the punctuation. I made the following statement:
True, your proud to be a kipper and it is quite clear from your posts here that your are a either a closet fascist or fellow traveller, maybe even a full blown Neo-Nazi.
That is my opinion, the full stop signifies that is a single statement.
I then made a second statement:
And yes Centy every one of us is judging you to hell.
It is related to the first statement, but does not say others share my opinion only that you (like all of us here) are judged by what we put our names to.
Finally I finished the post with a, that should have alerted you to the possibility that you were stepping into a trap. Especially when in an earlier post on this thread I had said:
you really are not that bright are you Centy? Guess you never learned how to play chess.
finishing that post with:
Maybe you should step away from the keyboard and concede now before you are made look like a total fool because at this point you are mated unless your going to toss the board and claim that that you have not lost.
Now that you have managed to get yourself totally outed as a fascist you have my permission to throw all your toys out of the pram and have an apoplectic fit.
Or you could step away from the keyboard and hope that not that many read this and the Daily Mail Takes Another Hit thread
https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/716748#message_15384678
where you defend the right of Nazis not to be opposed and also claim that anti nazis are just the same as nazis.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Lets examine this critically and see if your position is tenable and at the same time ask what if anything we have learned about the 2 forumites who have distanced themselves from me.
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
All fascists will tell you your either with them or against them, and if your of the same race and you are against them you are a race traitor. You and your 2 supporters clearly are not against them, guess that makes you for them and the only way to be for them is to be one of them (their definition not mine) so I guess that make you a fascist Centy, and I guess you and I have managed to out another couple today. "
I didn't realise I was walking into a trap!
Doesn't that make you a fascist for saying because I'm 'clearly not against them, guess that makes you for them and the only way to be for them is to be one of them'?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So it's been established now that you don't actually speak for 'everyone' here as two posters have already publicly distanced themselves from your comments . I think you also need to realise that your name is not Judge Dredd, you can't go around acting like judge, jury and executioner and this in not Mega-city one. We have law and order and court process here in the UK and everyone has the right to due process in a court of law. I find your defence of vigilantes appalling and you are no better than the people you oppose. To use a UK example groups like the EDL and the UAF are just 2 sides of the same hate filled coin.
Interesting...
You equate anti fascists with fascists, and the EDL with the UAF and you point out that 2 more taking your side proves me wrong. Lets examine this critically and see if your position is tenable and at the same time ask what if anything we have learned about the 2 forumites who have distanced themselves from me.
Firstly lets take a look the definition of fascism:
a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
All fascists will tell you your either with them or against them, and if your of the same race and you are against them you are a race traitor. You and your 2 supporters clearly are not against them, guess that makes you for them and the only way to be for them is to be one of them (their definition not mine) so I guess that make you a fascist Centy, and I guess you and I have managed to out another couple today. Although I expect to be hearing howls of protest shortly because fascists and Nazi's have a tendency to deny their beliefs and do anything and everything possible to keep their true political loyalties hidden.
Again, I will point out to you that I never claimed I spoke for everyone. Go back and re read the post that has led to this exchange and pay note to the punctuation. I made the following statement:
True, your proud to be a kipper and it is quite clear from your posts here that your are a either a closet fascist or fellow traveller, maybe even a full blown Neo-Nazi.
That is my opinion, the full stop signifies that is a single statement.
I then made a second statement:
And yes Centy every one of us is judging you to hell.
It is related to the first statement, but does not say others share my opinion only that you (like all of us here) are judged by what we put our names to.
Finally I finished the post with a, that should have alerted you to the possibility that you were stepping into a trap. Especially when in an earlier post on this thread I had said:
you really are not that bright are you Centy? Guess you never learned how to play chess.
finishing that post with:
Maybe you should step away from the keyboard and concede now before you are made look like a total fool because at this point you are mated unless your going to toss the board and claim that that you have not lost.
Now that you have managed to get yourself totally outed as a fascist you have my permission to throw all your toys out of the pram and have an apoplectic fit.
Or you could step away from the keyboard and hope that not that many read this and the Daily Mail Takes Another Hit thread
https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/716748#message_15384678
where you defend the right of Nazis not to be opposed and also claim that anti nazis are just the same as nazis.
"
Are you having trouble reading my posts earlier in this thread? You seem to have developed a severe case of selective reading because in an earlier post I said "I believe in democracy". You should have paid particular attention to those 4 words I said in a earlier post on this thread so I'll say them again so it sinks in this time "I believe in democracy". Your little rant about fascists and the history of fascism is completely irrelevant because you 'claim' I believe in rule by dictatorship, when I already told you very clearly in an earlier post "I believe in democracy". Dictatorships are not based on democratic systems and dictatorships don't hold any democratic values. I'll decide what I believe in (which is democracy), not your wild (and false) assumptions what you claim to think I believe in.
2nd point about your denial that you didn't claim to speak for everyone here judging me to hell is so laughable it's bordering on the ridiculous and is so farcical it's barely worth further comment. Your post is there on the thread for all to see so I'll leave it up to others to 'judge' what you meant by it.
Lastly on your emoji wink at the end of your comment, meant to somehow signal a trap, Lmao!
You couldn't lay a trap for toffee and your buddies on here olderforyounger and fabio end almost every post with a wink, so much so that ending a post with a wink has become common place for your mob, it's now been used so much it's utterly meaningless. Like the boy who cried wolf so much no one believed him when a real wolf came, you and your 'friends' have used emoji winks so much at the end of your posts no one would think any different if you used the wink emoji for a genuine reason or as a lazy casual ending to a post and the latter seems to be the case more often than not. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So it's been established now that you don't actually speak for 'everyone' here as two posters have already publicly distanced themselves from your comments . I think you also need to realise that your name is not Judge Dredd, you can't go around acting like judge, jury and executioner and this in not Mega-city one. We have law and order and court process here in the UK and everyone has the right to due process in a court of law. I find your defence of vigilantes appalling and you are no better than the people you oppose. To use a UK example groups like the EDL and the UAF are just 2 sides of the same hate filled coin.
Interesting...
You equate anti fascists with fascists, and the EDL with the UAF and you point out that 2 more taking your side proves me wrong. Lets examine this critically and see if your position is tenable and at the same time ask what if anything we have learned about the 2 forumites who have distanced themselves from me.
Firstly lets take a look the definition of fascism:
a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
All fascists will tell you your either with them or against them, and if your of the same race and you are against them you are a race traitor. You and your 2 supporters clearly are not against them, guess that makes you for them and the only way to be for them is to be one of them (their definition not mine) so I guess that make you a fascist Centy, and I guess you and I have managed to out another couple today. Although I expect to be hearing howls of protest shortly because fascists and Nazi's have a tendency to deny their beliefs and do anything and everything possible to keep their true political loyalties hidden.
Again, I will point out to you that I never claimed I spoke for everyone. Go back and re read the post that has led to this exchange and pay note to the punctuation. I made the following statement:
True, your proud to be a kipper and it is quite clear from your posts here that your are a either a closet fascist or fellow traveller, maybe even a full blown Neo-Nazi.
That is my opinion, the full stop signifies that is a single statement.
I then made a second statement:
And yes Centy every one of us is judging you to hell.
It is related to the first statement, but does not say others share my opinion only that you (like all of us here) are judged by what we put our names to.
Finally I finished the post with a, that should have alerted you to the possibility that you were stepping into a trap. Especially when in an earlier post on this thread I had said:
you really are not that bright are you Centy? Guess you never learned how to play chess.
finishing that post with:
Maybe you should step away from the keyboard and concede now before you are made look like a total fool because at this point you are mated unless your going to toss the board and claim that that you have not lost.
Now that you have managed to get yourself totally outed as a fascist you have my permission to throw all your toys out of the pram and have an apoplectic fit.
Or you could step away from the keyboard and hope that not that many read this and the Daily Mail Takes Another Hit thread
https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/716748#message_15384678
where you defend the right of Nazis not to be opposed and also claim that anti nazis are just the same as nazis.
Are you having trouble reading my posts earlier in this thread? You seem to have developed a severe case of selective reading because in an earlier post I said "I believe in democracy". You should have paid particular attention to those 4 words I said in a earlier post on this thread so I'll say them again so it sinks in this time "I believe in democracy". Your little rant about fascists and the history of fascism is completely irrelevant because you 'claim' I believe in rule by dictatorship, when I already told you very clearly in an earlier post "I believe in democracy". Dictatorships are not based on democratic systems and dictatorships don't hold any democratic values. I'll decide what I believe in (which is democracy), not your wild (and false) assumptions what you claim to think I believe in.
2nd point about your denial that you didn't claim to speak for everyone here judging me to hell is so laughable it's bordering on the ridiculous and is so farcical it's barely worth further comment. Your post is there on the thread for all to see so I'll leave it up to others to 'judge' what you meant by it.
Lastly on your emoji wink at the end of your comment, meant to somehow signal a trap, Lmao!
You couldn't lay a trap for toffee and your buddies on here olderforyounger and fabio end almost every post with a wink, so much so that ending a post with a wink has become common place for your mob, it's now been used so much it's utterly meaningless. Like the boy who cried wolf so much no one believed him when a real wolf came, you and your 'friends' have used emoji winks so much at the end of your posts no one would think any different if you used the wink emoji for a genuine reason or as a lazy casual ending to a post and the latter seems to be the case more often than not. "
Centaur
Can you not understand that to some people on here democracy means “ only my opinion matters” ???? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
