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Barnier’s Diagram
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
Saw this diagram in the Telegraph and on the BBC this morning. If ever there was a better example of how to succinctly illustrate how your opponent has fucked up - I am yet to see it.
For those that have not seen it, it is basically an illustration of a number of existing trade deals that the EU has and where the U.K. could fit. Written below those deals are the red lines that have been stated in public by Davis and May and therefore preclude each deal in decreasing flexibility until it gets down to Canada.
The U.K. should not have made those red line statements and should have (in public at least) ruled nothing in and ruled nothing out.
The stark reality of the diagram is sobering and really I don’t see any way forwards now for the U.K. other than accept the Canada option without compromising the so called red lines. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Saw this diagram in the Telegraph and on the BBC this morning. If ever there was a better example of how to succinctly illustrate how your opponent has fucked up - I am yet to see it.
For those that have not seen it, it is basically an illustration of a number of existing trade deals that the EU has and where the U.K. could fit. Written below those deals are the red lines that have been stated in public by Davis and May and therefore preclude each deal in decreasing flexibility until it gets down to Canada.
The U.K. should not have made those red line statements and should have (in public at least) ruled nothing in and ruled nothing out.
The stark reality of the diagram is sobering and really I don’t see any way forwards now for the U.K. other than accept the Canada option without compromising the so called red lines."
Your probably right, but then the extreme right think they have the power. Speaking to "europeans" in various countries they don't seem too bothered about the UK leaving. |
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Your probably right, but then the extreme right think they have the power. Speaking to "europeans" in various countries they don't seem too bothered about the UK leaving. "
The extreme right in the UK, like all on the extreme right are nationalist and believe they are superior to others so we will keep charging down this road they are taking us down. And in 5 or 10 years when this country is in ruins they will attempt to make things right by force of arms. This is what happened in the past so we can expect history to repeat itself again. |
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"Interesting statement Will, rather an extreme outlook! "
The BREXITers have already killed one MP (Jo Cox) and are currently trying to intimidate with threats death threats members of both houses of parliament if they don't back the BREXIT view of 'the will of the people', so I'm not so sure he isn't actually correct. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
If the UK ends up with a Canada style FTA the EU will be laughing and the UK will be fucked.
Many times people on this forum have mentioned the desires of the German auto industry to sell us cars without tariffs. Under a Canada style deal, they will be able to sell us cars, tariff free.  Great for Germany.
Boris Johnson has mentioned how the italians will want to sell us prosecco. Under a Canada style deal, they will be able to sell us prosecco, tariff free. Great for Italy.
But the UK economy isn’t based on food, or manufacturing, it is based on Services. According to the Commons Briefing Paper 7851 published just yesterday, 38% of exports of the EU are Services. Services, which are vital to the UK economy, are not included in a Canada style deal. A Canada style deal offers no reduction in tariffs on services what so ever. |
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By *uxinteriorMan
over a year ago
south west , continental |
"Interesting statement Will, rather an extreme outlook!
The BREXITers have already killed one MP (Jo Cox) and are currently trying to intimidate with threats death threats members of both houses of parliament if they don't back the BREXIT view of 'the will of the people', so I'm not so sure he isn't actually correct."
Another interesting statement, did they indeed or was it an unhinged lunatic that happened to commit the murder just like unhinged lunatic extremists of all race colour and creed commit murder and atrocities on a daily basis. |
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"Interesting statement Will, rather an extreme outlook!
The BREXITers have already killed one MP (Jo Cox) and are currently trying to intimidate with threats death threats members of both houses of parliament if they don't back the BREXIT view of 'the will of the people', so I'm not so sure he isn't actually correct."
Double standards of the so called liberals on here on display yet again. When a Muslim extremist commits an act of terrorism people like you are all too quick to shout from the rooftops "You can't blame all Muslims!"
Yet a lone wolf mentally ill lunatic kills an MP and you try to blame ALL Brexiters for it. Your double standards and hypocrisy have been duly noted. |
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"Interesting statement Will, rather an extreme outlook!
The BREXITers have already killed one MP (Jo Cox) and are currently trying to intimidate with threats death threats members of both houses of parliament if they don't back the BREXIT view of 'the will of the people', so I'm not so sure he isn't actually correct.
Double standards of the so called liberals on here on display yet again. When a Muslim extremist commits an act of terrorism people like you are all too quick to shout from the rooftops "You can't blame all Muslims!"
Yet a lone wolf mentally ill lunatic kills an MP and you try to blame ALL Brexiters for it. Your double standards and hypocrisy have been duly noted. "
Well the UKIP party are a fine one to talk
We all know about farage and his raciest party I guess people that support them must be from the same mould |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Interesting statement Will, rather an extreme outlook!
The BREXITers have already killed one MP (Jo Cox) and are currently trying to intimidate with threats death threats members of both houses of parliament if they don't back the BREXIT view of 'the will of the people', so I'm not so sure he isn't actually correct.
Double standards of the so called liberals on here on display yet again. When a Muslim extremist commits an act of terrorism people like you are all too quick to shout from the rooftops "You can't blame all Muslims!"
Yet a lone wolf mentally ill lunatic kills an MP and you try to blame ALL Brexiters for it. Your double standards and hypocrisy have been duly noted. "
Duly noted is your lack of condemnation for it then and now.... this guy wasnt a lone wolf he was a member of a far right group....you know those groups you support  |
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"Interesting statement Will, rather an extreme outlook!
The BREXITers have already killed one MP (Jo Cox) and are currently trying to intimidate with threats death threats members of both houses of parliament if they don't back the BREXIT view of 'the will of the people', so I'm not so sure he isn't actually correct.
Double standards of the so called liberals on here on display yet again. When a Muslim extremist commits an act of terrorism people like you are all too quick to shout from the rooftops "You can't blame all Muslims!"
Yet a lone wolf mentally ill lunatic kills an MP and you try to blame ALL Brexiters for it. Your double standards and hypocrisy have been duly noted.
Well the UKIP party are a fine one to talk
We all know about farage and his raciest party I guess people that support them must be from the same mould "
Yet you just keep ignoring the anti semitic racism that is rife within Corbyn's Labour party that you suppport. Says it all really. |
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"Interesting statement Will, rather an extreme outlook!
The BREXITers have already killed one MP (Jo Cox) and are currently trying to intimidate with threats death threats members of both houses of parliament if they don't back the BREXIT view of 'the will of the people', so I'm not so sure he isn't actually correct.
Double standards of the so called liberals on here on display yet again. When a Muslim extremist commits an act of terrorism people like you are all too quick to shout from the rooftops "You can't blame all Muslims!"
Yet a lone wolf mentally ill lunatic kills an MP and you try to blame ALL Brexiters for it. Your double standards and hypocrisy have been duly noted.
Duly noted is your lack of condemnation for it then and now.... this guy wasnt a lone wolf he was a member of a far right group....you know those groups you support "
I condemned the murder of Jo Cox on here at the time it happened. You weren't even around on here at the time so your post is complete nonsense as usual. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Interesting statement Will, rather an extreme outlook!
The BREXITers have already killed one MP (Jo Cox) and are currently trying to intimidate with threats death threats members of both houses of parliament if they don't back the BREXIT view of 'the will of the people', so I'm not so sure he isn't actually correct.
Double standards of the so called liberals on here on display yet again. When a Muslim extremist commits an act of terrorism people like you are all too quick to shout from the rooftops "You can't blame all Muslims!"
Yet a lone wolf mentally ill lunatic kills an MP and you try to blame ALL Brexiters for it. Your double standards and hypocrisy have been duly noted.
Duly noted is your lack of condemnation for it then and now.... this guy wasnt a lone wolf he was a member of a far right group....you know those groups you support
I condemned the murder of Jo Cox on here at the time it happened. You weren't even around on here at the time so your post is complete nonsense as usual. "
Oh i was around at the time....im not a newbie on here i've probably been a member on here a lot longer than you |
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"Interesting statement Will, rather an extreme outlook! "
Not really, forget attacks by the most rabid and racist of the most extreme of the ultra right, but just look at the facts through the lens of history and the parallels and similarities are obvious to anyone who looks without bias. If you think what I have said is extreme then that could be because although you know deep down in side I am correct you like most are still in total denial of the course the ultra right are setting for the UK. |
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"Interesting statement Will, rather an extreme outlook!
The BREXITers have already killed one MP (Jo Cox) and are currently trying to intimidate with threats death threats members of both houses of parliament if they don't back the BREXIT view of 'the will of the people', so I'm not so sure he isn't actually correct.
Double standards of the so called liberals on here on display yet again. When a Muslim extremist commits an act of terrorism people like you are all too quick to shout from the rooftops "You can't blame all Muslims!"
Yet a lone wolf mentally ill lunatic kills an MP and you try to blame ALL Brexiters for it. Your double standards and hypocrisy have been duly noted.
Duly noted is your lack of condemnation for it then and now.... this guy wasnt a lone wolf he was a member of a far right group....you know those groups you support
I condemned the murder of Jo Cox on here at the time it happened. You weren't even around on here at the time so your post is complete nonsense as usual.
Oh i was around at the time....im not a newbie on here i've probably been a member on here a lot longer than you "
The date of my oldest verification on here is 2013 and is on display on my profile so that proves how long I've been on here. The date you joined the site is on your profile. If you had other profiles previously then we only have your word for it. You can't prove anything and so your words are completely meaningless and empty. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Interesting statement Will, rather an extreme outlook!
The BREXITers have already killed one MP (Jo Cox) and are currently trying to intimidate with threats death threats members of both houses of parliament if they don't back the BREXIT view of 'the will of the people', so I'm not so sure he isn't actually correct.
Double standards of the so called liberals on here on display yet again. When a Muslim extremist commits an act of terrorism people like you are all too quick to shout from the rooftops "You can't blame all Muslims!"
Yet a lone wolf mentally ill lunatic kills an MP and you try to blame ALL Brexiters for it. Your double standards and hypocrisy have been duly noted.
Duly noted is your lack of condemnation for it then and now.... this guy wasnt a lone wolf he was a member of a far right group....you know those groups you support
I condemned the murder of Jo Cox on here at the time it happened. You weren't even around on here at the time so your post is complete nonsense as usual.
Oh i was around at the time....im not a newbie on here i've probably been a member on here a lot longer than you
The date of my oldest verification on here is 2013 and is on display on my profile so that proves how long I've been on here. The date you joined the site is on your profile. If you had other profiles previously then we only have your word for it. You can't prove anything and so your words are completely meaningless and empty. "
Then i was here before you....and i certainly was involved in the Jo Cox discussion....the one were you NEVER condemned as you never condemn anything to do with the far right....and most of us know why |
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"Interesting statement Will, rather an extreme outlook!
The BREXITers have already killed one MP (Jo Cox) and are currently trying to intimidate with threats death threats members of both houses of parliament if they don't back the BREXIT view of 'the will of the people', so I'm not so sure he isn't actually correct.
Another interesting statement, did they indeed or was it an unhinged lunatic that happened to commit the murder just like unhinged lunatic extremists of all race colour and creed commit murder and atrocities on a daily basis. "
That's what I thought originally but, now we're seeing an organised campaign of intimidation, including death threats against MPs, Lords and Judges coming from the BREXIT campaign I'm not so sure. |
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"Saw this diagram in the Telegraph and on the BBC this morning. If ever there was a better example of how to succinctly illustrate how your opponent has fucked up - I am yet to see it.
For those that have not seen it, it is basically an illustration of a number of existing trade deals that the EU has and where the U.K. could fit. Written below those deals are the red lines that have been stated in public by Davis and May and therefore preclude each deal in decreasing flexibility until it gets down to Canada.
The U.K. should not have made those red line statements and should have (in public at least) ruled nothing in and ruled nothing out.
The stark reality of the diagram is sobering and really I don’t see any way forwards now for the U.K. other than accept the Canada option without compromising the so called red lines."
Surely May wont budge or should that be fudge on her red lines?
then again did she also not say that the Canada option is not acceptable..?
|
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"Interesting statement Will, rather an extreme outlook!
The BREXITers have already killed one MP (Jo Cox) and are currently trying to intimidate with threats death threats members of both houses of parliament if they don't back the BREXIT view of 'the will of the people', so I'm not so sure he isn't actually correct.
Double standards of the so called liberals on here on display yet again. When a Muslim extremist commits an act of terrorism people like you are all too quick to shout from the rooftops "You can't blame all Muslims!"
Yet a lone wolf mentally ill lunatic kills an MP and you try to blame ALL Brexiters for it. Your double standards and hypocrisy have been duly noted. "
I think I'd be more convinced by your comments if I saw a bit more condemnation from you of the constant campaign of intimidation against MPs, judges and political commentators, clearly organised by BREXITers, just because they're doing their job properly. |
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"Interesting statement Will, rather an extreme outlook!
The BREXITers have already killed one MP (Jo Cox) and are currently trying to intimidate with threats death threats members of both houses of parliament if they don't back the BREXIT view of 'the will of the people', so I'm not so sure he isn't actually correct.
Double standards of the so called liberals on here on display yet again. When a Muslim extremist commits an act of terrorism people like you are all too quick to shout from the rooftops "You can't blame all Muslims!"
Yet a lone wolf mentally ill lunatic kills an MP and you try to blame ALL Brexiters for it. Your double standards and hypocrisy have been duly noted.
Well the UKIP party are a fine one to talk
We all know about farage and his raciest party I guess people that support them must be from the same mould
Yet you just keep ignoring the anti semitic racism that is rife within Corbyn's Labour party that you suppport. Says it all really. "
Well i don't and I've commented and condemned that to. But Labour's faults, and I believe it has many, have nothing to do with the right or wrongness of the current BREXIT campaign of intimidation against our democratic. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
I think you'll find that the brexiters on this thread have no logical arguements to counter the economic disaster that would result in a Canada style agreement. As such, they try to divert the thread to something completely unrelated. |
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"I think you'll find that the brexiters on this thread have no logical arguements to counter the economic disaster that would result in a Canada style agreement. As such, they try to divert the thread to something completely unrelated. "
Good point, my bad. Sorry |
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"Interesting statement Will, rather an extreme outlook!
The BREXITers have already killed one MP (Jo Cox) and are currently trying to intimidate with threats death threats members of both houses of parliament if they don't back the BREXIT view of 'the will of the people', so I'm not so sure he isn't actually correct.
Double standards of the so called liberals on here on display yet again. When a Muslim extremist commits an act of terrorism people like you are all too quick to shout from the rooftops "You can't blame all Muslims!"
Yet a lone wolf mentally ill lunatic kills an MP and you try to blame ALL Brexiters for it. Your double standards and hypocrisy have been duly noted.
Duly noted is your lack of condemnation for it then and now.... this guy wasnt a lone wolf he was a member of a far right group....you know those groups you support
I condemned the murder of Jo Cox on here at the time it happened. You weren't even around on here at the time so your post is complete nonsense as usual.
Oh i was around at the time....im not a newbie on here i've probably been a member on here a lot longer than you
The date of my oldest verification on here is 2013 and is on display on my profile so that proves how long I've been on here. The date you joined the site is on your profile. If you had other profiles previously then we only have your word for it. You can't prove anything and so your words are completely meaningless and empty. "
Does it realy matter if you have been in longer than other people does it make it right in your warped mind
The lies you spill are side splitting
Have you tried to audition for would I lie to you
You would do ever do well without trying |
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At this stage I think a Ukraine style deal might be the best option for the UK now theyve committed to regulatory aligment (a concession I didnt think the EU would manage to win this early).
Under that deal the Ukraine geta more access the more closely aligned they are and lose access if they diverge.
This would be a huge face saving excercise for the UK government because they can always claim that they just happen to agree with the rules the EU have passed and that will allow them to maintain a good level of access. |
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"At this stage I think a Ukraine style deal might be the best option for the UK now theyve committed to regulatory aligment (a concession I didnt think the EU would manage to win this early).
Under that deal the Ukraine geta more access the more closely aligned they are and lose access if they diverge.
This would be a huge face saving excercise for the UK government because they can always claim that they just happen to agree with the rules the EU have passed and that will allow them to maintain a good level of access."
so which part of the UK do you think we should let Russia cede?
Maybe N.I. After all that would give the Russian fleet a port. Or maybe Scotland then they would get a ready made nuclear submarine base. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
We have just got to move from a service economy to an industrial economic model - start making things again:
Motorcycle production
Car production - British owned
Ship building
Aircraft building - British owned
Plant & machinery production
Simple as brexit itself. Everyone "back britain" -like the 1970's. |
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"We have just got to move from a service economy to an industrial economic model - start making things again:
Motorcycle production
Car production - British owned
Ship building
Aircraft building - British owned
Plant & machinery production
Simple as brexit itself. Everyone "back britain" -like the 1970's."
Will not happen, our politicians are owned by multinationals and have spent the last 39 years dismantling our infrastructure and technical education system that is needed to train crafts and technical skills, while selling out our industries and allowing foreign interests export the jobs.
In fact brexit is the last move of the UK asset stripping fire-sale of the UK. |
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"We have just got to move from a service economy to an industrial economic model - start making things again:
Motorcycle production
Car production - British owned
Ship building
Aircraft building - British owned
Plant & machinery production
Simple as brexit itself. Everyone "back britain" -like the 1970's."
Nonsense post.
The number of skilled workers arent there to do the volume.
The infrastructure isnt there either.
The resources and economies of scale arent there to compete with China.
And how exactly are all these brand new UK businesses supposed to just magically generate customers?
Saying youve got to move from a service based industry to industrial is a poorly thought out half idea.
Particularly when automation is improving and increasing. China brought fully automated factories online last year and theyve been a massive success.
The 1800s are over and Britain is no longer leading the industrial revolution. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We have just got to move from a service economy to an industrial economic model - start making things again:
Motorcycle production
Car production - British owned
Ship building
Aircraft building - British owned
Plant & machinery production
Simple as brexit itself. Everyone "back britain" -like the 1970's."
I'll back my wallet ta', you slap "Made in Britain" on something and instantly you get hit with a premium charge.
I can get my digital stuff from S.Korea and Japan, usually dearer but lasts longer. Hardware equiptment from Germany, Italy, France, lasts longer and the same price. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We have just got to move from a service economy to an industrial economic model - start making things again:
Motorcycle production
Car production - British owned
Ship building
Aircraft building - British owned
Plant & machinery production
Simple as brexit itself. Everyone "back britain" -like the 1970's.
Nonsense post.
The number of skilled workers arent there to do the volume.
The infrastructure isnt there either.
The resources and economies of scale arent there to compete with China.
And how exactly are all these brand new UK businesses supposed to just magically generate customers?
Saying youve got to move from a service based industry to industrial is a poorly thought out half idea.
Particularly when automation is improving and increasing. China brought fully automated factories online last year and theyve been a massive success.
The 1800s are over and Britain is no longer leading the industrial revolution."
Agreed. Investing heavily in old industries like manufacturing - en masse at least, is like sitting on a employment bubble. Investing in a diversified hi-tech economy is the only way to survive not. Japan, S.Korea, China, Saudi Arabia, and Italy and Israel are all doing this. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"We have just got to move from a service economy to an industrial economic model - start making things again:
Motorcycle production
Car production - British owned
Ship building
Aircraft building - British owned
Plant & machinery production
Simple as brexit itself. Everyone "back britain" -like the 1970's.
Nonsense post.
The number of skilled workers arent there to do the volume.
The infrastructure isnt there either.
The resources and economies of scale arent there to compete with China.
And how exactly are all these brand new UK businesses supposed to just magically generate customers?
Saying youve got to move from a service based industry to industrial is a poorly thought out half idea.
Particularly when automation is improving and increasing. China brought fully automated factories online last year and theyve been a massive success.
The 1800s are over and Britain is no longer leading the industrial revolution.
Agreed. Investing heavily in old industries like manufacturing - en masse at least, is like sitting on a employment bubble. Investing in a diversified hi-tech economy is the only way to survive not. Japan, S.Korea, China, Saudi Arabia, and Italy and Israel are all doing this."
Or to turn it around.... we have developed a fantastic knowledge and service economy here in the UK... why are we trying to destroy it? Why not get behind it and support it?
-Matt |
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"
Or to turn it around.... we have developed a fantastic knowledge and service economy here in the UK... why are we trying to destroy it? Why not get behind it and support it?
-Matt"
Brexiters only want to get behind the old version of Britain that they see in their rose tinted glasses. |
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By *uxinteriorMan
over a year ago
south west , continental |
"Interesting statement Will, rather an extreme outlook!
Not really, forget attacks by the most rabid and racist of the most extreme of the ultra right, but just look at the facts through the lens of history and the parallels and similarities are obvious to anyone who looks without bias. If you think what I have said is
extreme then that could be because although you know deep down in side I am correct you like most are still in total denial of the course the ultra right are setting for the UK."
Not quite sure which ultra right party or group is setting an extremist course for the UK?
The current government in the UK are a Conservative coalition hardly extreme ultra right.
I'm pretty sure the BNP, Britain First or any other ultra far right parties do not really pull that many votes to make a difference. UKIP can possibly pull in a few votes but are they really ultra far right? Not sure there either, they have a few multi cultural party members and workers I do believe. Not really your ultras now.
I have stated before every political party has a few extremists in its midst, good old Labour have a few now I do believe.
I'm not convinced of all this Will, I try and look past all the niggling negatives, it isn't all doom and gloom and come the next general election there may be a more favourable lot of weasels in power for you to champion. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We have just got to move from a service economy to an industrial economic model - start making things again:
Motorcycle production
Car production - British owned
Ship building
Aircraft building - British owned
Plant & machinery production
Simple as brexit itself. Everyone "back britain" -like the 1970's.
Nonsense post.
The number of skilled workers arent there to do the volume.
The infrastructure isnt there either.
The resources and economies of scale arent there to compete with China.
And how exactly are all these brand new UK businesses supposed to just magically generate customers?
Saying youve got to move from a service based industry to industrial is a poorly thought out half idea.
Particularly when automation is improving and increasing. China brought fully automated factories online last year and theyve been a massive success.
The 1800s are over and Britain is no longer leading the industrial revolution."
I agree but my main point was to emphasize "it's easy to say it" but trying to put it into practice is another thing. But the reality is we are not going to retain passporting after brexit. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
Or to turn it around.... we have developed a fantastic knowledge and service economy here in the UK... why are we trying to destroy it? Why not get behind it and support it?
-Matt
Brexiters only want to get behind the old version of Britain that they see in their rose tinted glasses."
Exactly, so relying on a Canada deal that does not cover services would be devastating to the UK economy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Or to turn it around.... we have developed a fantastic knowledge and service economy here in the UK... why are we trying to destroy it? Why not get behind it and support it?
-Matt
Brexiters only want to get behind the old version of Britain that they see in their rose tinted glasses.
Exactly, so relying on a Canada deal that does not cover services would be devastating to the UK economy. "
Just like Brexit in general, unless a Leaver can comment and give answers how we're going to be better off ????? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
Or to turn it around.... we have developed a fantastic knowledge and service economy here in the UK... why are we trying to destroy it? Why not get behind it and support it?
-Matt
Brexiters only want to get behind the old version of Britain that they see in their rose tinted glasses.
Exactly, so relying on a Canada deal that does not cover services would be devastating to the UK economy.
Just like Brexit in general, unless a Leaver can comment and give answers how we're going to be better off ?????"
Yeah, I would love to know how a Service based economy is going to be better off signing FTAs that don't include services! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We have just got to move from a service economy to an industrial economic model - start making things again:
Motorcycle production
Car production - British owned
Ship building
Aircraft building - British owned
Plant & machinery production
Simple as brexit itself. Everyone "back britain" -like the 1970's.
Nonsense post.
The number of skilled workers arent there to do the volume.
The infrastructure isnt there either.
The resources and economies of scale arent there to compete with China.
And how exactly are all these brand new UK businesses supposed to just magically generate customers?
Saying youve got to move from a service based industry to industrial is a poorly thought out half idea.
Particularly when automation is improving and increasing. China brought fully automated factories online last year and theyve been a massive success.
The 1800s are over and Britain is no longer leading the industrial revolution.
Agreed. Investing heavily in old industries like manufacturing - en masse at least, is like sitting on a employment bubble. Investing in a diversified hi-tech economy is the only way to survive not. Japan, S.Korea, China, Saudi Arabia, and Italy and Israel are all doing this.
Or to turn it around.... we have developed a fantastic knowledge and service economy here in the UK... why are we trying to destroy it? Why not get behind it and support it?
-Matt"
Why not both?
Arguably you don't want too much dependency on a service sector, economic diversity is key. |
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"
Or to turn it around.... we have developed a fantastic knowledge and service economy here in the UK... why are we trying to destroy it? Why not get behind it and support it?
-Matt
Brexiters only want to get behind the old version of Britain that they see in their rose tinted glasses.
Exactly, so relying on a Canada deal that does not cover services would be devastating to the UK economy. "
It's like you've concluded the phase 2 negotiations before they've started. The UK will be pushing for a Canada style deal that does include services. Governor of the Bank of England Mark Carney was speaking today and said he doesn't accept that if it hasn't been done in the past then it can't be done in the future. A deal which does include services can be done. The Bank of England also said today that if European banks want to carry on operating as normal in the UK after Brexit they need to push for a good deal otherwise European banks operating in the UK could be reclassified as Subsidiaries after Brexit. This means European banks would need to find an extra £40 billion of capital to keep in their UK banks to continue operating here. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"
Or to turn it around.... we have developed a fantastic knowledge and service economy here in the UK... why are we trying to destroy it? Why not get behind it and support it?
-Matt
Brexiters only want to get behind the old version of Britain that they see in their rose tinted glasses.
Exactly, so relying on a Canada deal that does not cover services would be devastating to the UK economy.
It's like you've concluded the phase 2 negotiations before they've started. The UK will be pushing for a Canada style deal that does include services. Governor of the Bank of England Mark Carney was speaking today and said he doesn't accept that if it hasn't been done in the past then it can't be done in the future. A deal which does include services can be done. The Bank of England also said today that if European banks want to carry on operating as normal in the UK after Brexit they need to push for a good deal otherwise European banks operating in the UK could be reclassified as Subsidiaries after Brexit. This means European banks would need to find an extra £40 billion of capital to keep in their UK banks to continue operating here. "
Yes. Remember it is not 'Canada' it is 'Canada plus plus plus'. Remember, we are going to HAVE our cake AND eat it.
-Matt |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
Or to turn it around.... we have developed a fantastic knowledge and service economy here in the UK... why are we trying to destroy it? Why not get behind it and support it?
-Matt
Brexiters only want to get behind the old version of Britain that they see in their rose tinted glasses.
Exactly, so relying on a Canada deal that does not cover services would be devastating to the UK economy.
It's like you've concluded the phase 2 negotiations before they've started. The UK will be pushing for a Canada style deal that does include services. Governor of the Bank of England Mark Carney was speaking today and said he doesn't accept that if it hasn't been done in the past then it can't be done in the future. A deal which does include services can be done. The Bank of England also said today that if European banks want to carry on operating as normal in the UK after Brexit they need to push for a good deal otherwise European banks operating in the UK could be reclassified as Subsidiaries after Brexit. This means European banks would need to find an extra £40 billion of capital to keep in their UK banks to continue operating here. "
That £40bn wouldn't benefit the UK, it just sits in the BofE. I've not concluded the talks, if you read what I wrote and what you quoted, I said that a Canada style deal that does not include services would be devastating. You and Mark Carney both seem to be agreeing with me, and are saying that we would need a deal that included services. This also proves that trade on WTO terms would be devastating. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"We have just got to move from a service economy to an industrial economic model - start making things again:
Motorcycle production
Car production - British owned
Ship building
Aircraft building - British owned
Plant & machinery production
Simple as brexit itself. Everyone "back britain" -like the 1970's.
Nonsense post.
The number of skilled workers arent there to do the volume.
The infrastructure isnt there either.
The resources and economies of scale arent there to compete with China.
And how exactly are all these brand new UK businesses supposed to just magically generate customers?
Saying youve got to move from a service based industry to industrial is a poorly thought out half idea.
Particularly when automation is improving and increasing. China brought fully automated factories online last year and theyve been a massive success.
The 1800s are over and Britain is no longer leading the industrial revolution.
Agreed. Investing heavily in old industries like manufacturing - en masse at least, is like sitting on a employment bubble. Investing in a diversified hi-tech economy is the only way to survive not. Japan, S.Korea, China, Saudi Arabia, and Italy and Israel are all doing this.
Or to turn it around.... we have developed a fantastic knowledge and service economy here in the UK... why are we trying to destroy it? Why not get behind it and support it?
-Matt
Why not both?
Arguably you don't want too much dependency on a service sector, economic diversity is key."
Well, exactly, why not both indeed. But if Brexiteers' solution to our perceived economic woes is to increase our manufacturing exports, what exactly will Brexit offer us to do that that we didn't have before?
-Matt |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"We have just got to move from a service economy to an industrial economic model - start making things again:
Motorcycle production
Car production - British owned
Ship building
Aircraft building - British owned
Plant & machinery production
Simple as brexit itself. Everyone "back britain" -like the 1970's.
Nonsense post.
The number of skilled workers arent there to do the volume.
The infrastructure isnt there either.
The resources and economies of scale arent there to compete with China.
And how exactly are all these brand new UK businesses supposed to just magically generate customers?
Saying youve got to move from a service based industry to industrial is a poorly thought out half idea.
Particularly when automation is improving and increasing. China brought fully automated factories online last year and theyve been a massive success.
The 1800s are over and Britain is no longer leading the industrial revolution.
Agreed. Investing heavily in old industries like manufacturing - en masse at least, is like sitting on a employment bubble. Investing in a diversified hi-tech economy is the only way to survive not. Japan, S.Korea, China, Saudi Arabia, and Italy and Israel are all doing this.
Or to turn it around.... we have developed a fantastic knowledge and service economy here in the UK... why are we trying to destroy it? Why not get behind it and support it?
-Matt
Why not both?
Arguably you don't want too much dependency on a service sector, economic diversity is key.
Well, exactly, why not both indeed. But if Brexiteers' solution to our perceived economic woes is to increase our manufacturing exports, what exactly will Brexit offer us to do that that we didn't have before?
-Matt"
Less foreign investment! That will help, right? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The eu can't do a deal that allows uk service free access to the eu ,
Like they said today there is no other free trade agreement in place that allows it ,
Other countries that have trade agreements with the eu have already put pressure on the eu not to allow UK service free access ,
If the eu allows the uk access them canada will want the same and every one else wants it too ,
Secondly eu chief negotiator said it , he won't budge an inch on it.
The UK will get the same as canada
Take it or leave it |
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The deal is already done. BREXIT may not actually mean BREXIT because regularity alignment most definitely does mean regularity alignment. The only question now is how much control and say we have over the rules we're going to have to obey regardless. Do we leave the EU and cede complete control and any say over our laws to France and Germany, or do we remain in the EU and keep control and say over them. |
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"The eu can't do a deal that allows uk service free access to the eu ,
Like they said today there is no other free trade agreement in place that allows it ,
Other countries that have trade agreements with the eu have already put pressure on the eu not to allow UK service free access ,
If the eu allows the uk access them canada will want the same and every one else wants it too ,
Secondly eu chief negotiator said it , he won't budge an inch on it.
The UK will get the same as canada
Take it or leave it "
The EU also said before phase 1 negotiations started that trade talks could not happen in parallel with talks on the Irish border. The UK said from the start that the Irish border could not be solved as a separate issue and had to be done in parallel with trade talks. The EU conceded that the UK was correct and the Irish border issue will now be negotiated in parallel with trade talks. Moral of the story,... Just because the EU says something don't take it as gospel and positions change as negotiations progress. |
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"The eu can't do a deal that allows uk service free access to the eu ,
Like they said today there is no other free trade agreement in place that allows it ,
Other countries that have trade agreements with the eu have already put pressure on the eu not to allow UK service free access ,
If the eu allows the uk access them canada will want the same and every one else wants it too ,
Secondly eu chief negotiator said it , he won't budge an inch on it.
The UK will get the same as canada
Take it or leave it
The EU also said before phase 1 negotiations started that trade talks could not happen in parallel with talks on the Irish border. The UK said from the start that the Irish border could not be solved as a separate issue and had to be done in parallel with trade talks. The EU conceded that the UK was correct and the Irish border issue will now be negotiated in parallel with trade talks. Moral of the story,... Just because the EU says something don't take it as gospel and positions change as negotiations progress. "
bullshit..
stop trying (pathetically)to rewrite history..
|
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"The eu can't do a deal that allows uk service free access to the eu ,
Like they said today there is no other free trade agreement in place that allows it ,
Other countries that have trade agreements with the eu have already put pressure on the eu not to allow UK service free access ,
If the eu allows the uk access them canada will want the same and every one else wants it too ,
Secondly eu chief negotiator said it , he won't budge an inch on it.
The UK will get the same as canada
Take it or leave it
The EU also said before phase 1 negotiations started that trade talks could not happen in parallel with talks on the Irish border. The UK said from the start that the Irish border could not be solved as a separate issue and had to be done in parallel with trade talks. The EU conceded that the UK was correct and the Irish border issue will now be negotiated in parallel with trade talks. Moral of the story,... Just because the EU says something don't take it as gospel and positions change as negotiations progress.
bullshit..
stop trying (pathetically)to rewrite history..
"
What I wrote is a factual account of what happened. What do you think is false about it? |
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"The eu can't do a deal that allows uk service free access to the eu ,
Like they said today there is no other free trade agreement in place that allows it ,
Other countries that have trade agreements with the eu have already put pressure on the eu not to allow UK service free access ,
If the eu allows the uk access them canada will want the same and every one else wants it too ,
Secondly eu chief negotiator said it , he won't budge an inch on it.
The UK will get the same as canada
Take it or leave it
The EU also said before phase 1 negotiations started that trade talks could not happen in parallel with talks on the Irish border. The UK said from the start that the Irish border could not be solved as a separate issue and had to be done in parallel with trade talks. The EU conceded that the UK was correct and the Irish border issue will now be negotiated in parallel with trade talks. Moral of the story,... Just because the EU says something don't take it as gospel and positions change as negotiations progress.
bullshit..
stop trying (pathetically)to rewrite history..
What I wrote is a factual account of what happened. What do you think is false about it? "
bullshit..
without the agreement on the border, even after dithering Davies's incompetent waffle there would not now be a 'progression to the next phase..
stage 1 etc then onto stage 2..
the UK government were parroting the same line over 6 months ago that the NI/Eire issue should be dealt with later and the EU simply stood its ground and rightly so given the implications for more uncertainty in that part of the world..
have you been with Pat in la la land..?
here's another clue, google what your deity Herr Farage said after the signing off by May and the EU the other week..
note that you have stopped quoting him now, fell out ? |
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The document agreed by the UK and the EU states there will be an open border and no new regulatory barriers between NI and the mainland..
given that May and the swivel eyed loons have said we are leaving the SM/CU, how do you see that working Centaur..?
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Isn't NI looking like staying in the Customs Union & single market to enable talks to progress to phase 2 trade ?
"
no one knows ... but what is known is that the government look like utter morons |
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"Isn't NI looking like staying in the Customs Union & single market to enable talks to progress to phase 2 trade ?
"
that is how i would read any open border between the EU and a country or part of one yes..
given the DUP will not accept a border in the Irish Sea and said so firmly the other week its an interesting quandary..
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
So i'd hazard a guess the EU know May is fucked over this problem and knows her only scenarios are a watered down Brexit where NI basically doesn't leave or Brexit just won't happen when it comes to the crunch so that's why they are fine with going to phase 2 because they know May has to buckle one way or the other. Not a win for us is it really  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
brexit is clearly just an feeble attempt by the right to run down the clock because thaey haven't got any idea of how to fix all the shit they've broken over the last 100 years |
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"The eu can't do a deal that allows uk service free access to the eu ,
Like they said today there is no other free trade agreement in place that allows it ,
Other countries that have trade agreements with the eu have already put pressure on the eu not to allow UK service free access ,
If the eu allows the uk access them canada will want the same and every one else wants it too ,
Secondly eu chief negotiator said it , he won't budge an inch on it.
The UK will get the same as canada
Take it or leave it
The EU also said before phase 1 negotiations started that trade talks could not happen in parallel with talks on the Irish border. The UK said from the start that the Irish border could not be solved as a separate issue and had to be done in parallel with trade talks. The EU conceded that the UK was correct and the Irish border issue will now be negotiated in parallel with trade talks. Moral of the story,... Just because the EU says something don't take it as gospel and positions change as negotiations progress.
bullshit..
stop trying (pathetically)to rewrite history..
What I wrote is a factual account of what happened. What do you think is false about it?
bullshit..
without the agreement on the border, even after dithering Davies's incompetent waffle there would not now be a 'progression to the next phase..
stage 1 etc then onto stage 2..
the UK government were parroting the same line over 6 months ago that the NI/Eire issue should be dealt with later and the EU simply stood its ground and rightly so given the implications for more uncertainty in that part of the world..
have you been with Pat in la la land..?
here's another clue, google what your deity Herr Farage said after the signing off by May and the EU the other week..
note that you have stopped quoting him now, fell out ? "
The Irish border has not been solved with the phase 1 agreement. The agreement clearly states that full alignment will only apply if other solutions cannot be found. This leaves room for further negotiations on the Irish border in phase 2 in parallel with trade talks. The UK has identified which sectors of industry and business apply to the Irish border. Different solutions can be looked at now for each individual sector and it was always clear the EU's ham fisted 'one size fits all' approach was never going to work. |
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"The eu can't do a deal that allows uk service free access to the eu ,
Like they said today there is no other free trade agreement in place that allows it ,
Other countries that have trade agreements with the eu have already put pressure on the eu not to allow UK service free access ,
If the eu allows the uk access them canada will want the same and every one else wants it too ,
Secondly eu chief negotiator said it , he won't budge an inch on it.
The UK will get the same as canada
Take it or leave it
The EU also said before phase 1 negotiations started that trade talks could not happen in parallel with talks on the Irish border. The UK said from the start that the Irish border could not be solved as a separate issue and had to be done in parallel with trade talks. The EU conceded that the UK was correct and the Irish border issue will now be negotiated in parallel with trade talks. Moral of the story,... Just because the EU says something don't take it as gospel and positions change as negotiations progress.
bullshit..
stop trying (pathetically)to rewrite history..
What I wrote is a factual account of what happened. What do you think is false about it?
bullshit..
without the agreement on the border, even after dithering Davies's incompetent waffle there would not now be a 'progression to the next phase..
stage 1 etc then onto stage 2..
the UK government were parroting the same line over 6 months ago that the NI/Eire issue should be dealt with later and the EU simply stood its ground and rightly so given the implications for more uncertainty in that part of the world..
have you been with Pat in la la land..?
here's another clue, google what your deity Herr Farage said after the signing off by May and the EU the other week..
note that you have stopped quoting him now, fell out ?
The Irish border has not been solved with the phase 1 agreement. The agreement clearly states that full alignment will only apply if other solutions cannot be found. This leaves room for further negotiations on the Irish border in phase 2 in parallel with trade talks. The UK has identified which sectors of industry and business apply to the Irish border. Different solutions can be looked at now for each individual sector and it was always clear the EU's ham fisted 'one size fits all' approach was never going to work. "
If the UK had not agreed to an open border between Eire/NI as per the good Friday agreement there would not have been any early morning flight to Brussels by May after discussing with the DUP and accepting that there would not be a hard border in the sea..
no one has said it has been sorted, only a muppet would say that given the deal when it is ready will be one deal and not just individual issues or areas of contention..
if only you had told May on the day the DUP pulled the plug as she was about to agree that she had no need to then fly back in a panic and get on the phone back to the DUP etc..
stop trying to spin what has happened, its out there in print..
your flat earthing clutching at straws to give the false impression that the negotiations are not going as was predicted with the EU not budging and May's red lines being erased or turning a lighter colour..
all the talk of 'technology' being invented to use on the border have ceased to be waffled on about by the swivel eyed loons, maybe take a lesson from your hero's.. |
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"The document agreed by the UK and the EU states there will be an open border and no new regulatory barriers between NI and the mainland..
given that May and the swivel eyed loons have said we are leaving the SM/CU, how do you see that working Centaur..?
"
any thoughts Centaur..? |
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