FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Nationalism - A good thing, or a bad thing?

Nationalism - A good thing, or a bad thing?

By *oo hot OP Couple over a year ago

North West

A few of the Eastern European states are experiencing a surge in support for right-wing political ideology. Western Europe has also seen the rise of right-wing and far-right parties and of course, the Balkans are still suffering from the dose of ferocious Nationalism that devastated their countries in the 1990's.

This got me thinking about Nationalism generally and whether it has any use or value in the modern world when its only consequence in history seems to have been conflict and suffering.

Nationalism seems to be a very misguided opinion that being born in a particular country and/or born to parents of a particular religion makes you better somehow tham someone born a few miles away, or in another part of the world, or whose parents held different religious beliefs.

Is it not time to treat Nationalism as a crime against humanity or does it have to be extreme Nationalism? How can the thought that you are better than someone else by virtue of where you were born be even remotely acceptable?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think I'm Japanese but born in a white persons body.... From now on I want everybody to call me akeno

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ohayou

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think I'm Japanese but born in a white persons body.... From now on I want everybody to call me akeno

Hello akeno

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Identity is great. But why should we identify ourselves by some powerful people who decided to draw a line and call us British?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Identity is great. But why should we identify ourselves by some powerful people who decided to draw a line and call us British?"
.

I don't know hunglatino why do we identify ourselves as Latinos

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think I'm Japanese but born in a white persons body.... From now on I want everybody to call me akeno

Hello akeno"
.

Konnichiwa

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

"A few of the Eastern European states are experiencing a surge in support for right-wing political ideology. Western Europe has also seen the rise of right-wing and far-right parties and of course, the Balkans are still suffering from the dose of ferocious Nationalism that devastated their countries in the 1990's.

This got me thinking about Nationalism generally and whether it has any use or value in the modern world when its only consequence in history seems to have been conflict and suffering.

You're right! The Scots and the Welsh need it beating out of them like the English have.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We have a pecking order of nations.Superiority is taught and instilled in us through various methods.Nationialsm is useful for those that are in charge.Its a tool.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This got me thinking about Nationalism generally and whether it has any use or value in the modern world when its only consequence in history seems to have been conflict and suffering.

You're right! The Scots and the Welsh need it beating out of them like the English have. "
. Does having a caravan in angelsey count as being Welsh

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

This got me thinking about Nationalism generally and whether it has any use or value in the modern world when its only consequence in history seems to have been conflict and suffering.

You're right! The Scots and the Welsh need it beating out of them like the English have. . Does having a caravan in angelsey count as being Welsh

Only if you're proud about it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This got me thinking about Nationalism generally and whether it has any use or value in the modern world when its only consequence in history seems to have been conflict and suffering.

You're right! The Scots and the Welsh need it beating out of them like the English have. . Does having a caravan in angelsey count as being Welsh

Only if you're proud about it."
.

I don't drink for nothing

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Depends how people define Nationalism and what side of a political fence you're sitting.

For some it means political independence for a particular country.

To others it means patriotism & loyalty.

Others it is the feeling of superiority over other countries.

Do we lock up Ulster Loyalists and Scottish Nationalists? Both could be regarded as extremists.

Religion has caused more wars and suffering than Nationalism. Whilst we're at it shall we make being religious a crime against humanity too?

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

Its mostly sports fault. Parts of East London are a nightmare during cricket matches between india and Pakistan. This kind of show of support for a national identity should be banned. These people should be embarrassed to mention where their families are from, like we English are.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Were seeing this now in Burma with the genocide of rahinja? Muslims.

I hope those involved feel the long arm of international law

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If only we could uninvent human history and culture the world would be just dandy

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Nationalism isn't what it used to be.Everybody is a plastic patriot today.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Were seeing this now in Burma with the genocide of rahinja? Muslims.

I hope those involved feel the long arm of international law

"
.

That's not quite true, the situation is awful but native Burmese haven't just all of a sudden decided to attack rohingyas for nothing.

There's a very long history of differences and fighting on both sides.

The reality is neither side wish to live together if they did we wouldn't be discussing it now

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Were seeing this now in Burma with the genocide of rahinja? Muslims.

I hope those involved feel the long arm of international law

That's not quite true, the situation is awful but native Burmese haven't just all of a sudden decided to attack rohingyas for nothing.

There's a very long history of differences and fighting on both sides.

The reality is neither side wish to live together if they did we wouldn't be discussing it now"

Just been listening to the bbc world service.

A woman lived in same village as budists. She gave account of

soldiers turning up and were robbed by budist villagers while homes were burnt, children thrown onto fires, beaten to death etc.

Her child was murdered, she r@ped, stabbed and burnt then left for dead. She escaped under cover of darkness into bangladesh..

Similar to bosnia conflict in the 90s.

I cant see it, but hope some balance of justice catches upto the perpetrators

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Were seeing this now in Burma with the genocide of rahinja? Muslims.

I hope those involved feel the long arm of international law

That's not quite true, the situation is awful but native Burmese haven't just all of a sudden decided to attack rohingyas for nothing.

There's a very long history of differences and fighting on both sides.

The reality is neither side wish to live together if they did we wouldn't be discussing it now"

Still criimes to answer to though, regardless of reasons

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to somebody else's.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to somebody else's."

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By *oxychick35Couple over a year ago

thornaby

"Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to somebody else's."
that's also true of tribes all over the world just have to look at Africa or Asia we all think we're we are from and who we belong to is better than everyone else it's human nature I'd hate to think I'd been born in the south lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to somebody else's. that's also true of tribes all over the world just have to look at Africa or Asia we all think we're we are from and who we belong to is better than everyone else it's human nature I'd hate to think I'd been born in the south lol "

"It's human nature" is not an answer that stands up to scrutiny.

We override our base instincts all the time, why would this be any different?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yea lol. Ben working with a cockney who sings 2 little boys 'wud ya fink ooyy wud leee.. Va, yer doy.. Yinn.. Ga, '

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By *strokeC100Couple over a year ago

chester

Like every other social construct, a sense of nation, of a commonality with the people with whom we share a government , a history and perhaps, a culture, can be a positive or a negative thing. It can, and has been, a force which binds and unites, enabling individuals within it to live more safely and richly. It can, and has been, exploited and directed against others ,resulting in wars and misery.

The problem with simply focussing on the negative and rejecting, as a consequence of that focus, the whole concept of the Nation is that one is then obliged really to show what better alternative there is . Not difficult perhaps in the ideal: not so easy to demonstrate by example.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

on the other side of the coin, a sense of nationality is a massive driving force in the arts and cultural enrichment ... when i was a kid i got travel around the world on loads of exchange visits as part of a childrens welsh language choir ... it was brilliant

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to somebody else's."
.

That's because we are superior to many many others.

You only have to look around the world to the many shitholes to see that

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Celebrating culture and the arts is fine and good.Although I've never trusted flag wavers and patriots.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to somebody else's..

That's because we are superior to many many others.

You only have to look around the world to the many shitholes to see that"

Guess that means Im better than you as I am from Scotland

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Were seeing this now in Burma with the genocide of rahinja? Muslims.

I hope those involved feel the long arm of international law

That's not quite true, the situation is awful but native Burmese haven't just all of a sudden decided to attack rohingyas for nothing.

There's a very long history of differences and fighting on both sides.

The reality is neither side wish to live together if they did we wouldn't be discussing it now

Just been listening to the bbc world service.

A woman lived in same village as budists. She gave account of

soldiers turning up and were robbed by budist villagers while homes were burnt, children thrown onto fires, beaten to death etc.

Her child was murdered, she r@ped, stabbed and burnt then left for dead. She escaped under cover of darkness into bangladesh..

Similar to bosnia conflict in the 90s.

I cant see it, but hope some balance of justice catches upto the perpetrators

"
.

It works both ways, the Buddhists have been murdered by the rohingyas for decades, it's tit for tat revenge that we see all over the world from Syria to the Yemen to Pakistan to Malaysia to Libya to East Africa to Iraq to Saudi Arabia...

Is it excusable, absolutely not sadly Burma has always been a bit lawless for this type of behaviour

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to somebody else's..

That's because we are superior to many many others.

You only have to look around the world to the many shitholes to see that

Guess that means Im better than you as I am from Scotland

"
.

I see no problem whatsoever of you thinking the Scots are better than the English... What's wrong with pride in your cultural and ethnic origins?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to somebody else's..

That's because we are superior to many many others.

You only have to look around the world to the many shitholes to see that

Guess that means Im better than you as I am from Scotland

"
Is Wales shitter than Scotland.Not convinced

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to somebody else's..

That's because we are superior to many many others.

You only have to look around the world to the many shitholes to see that

Guess that means Im better than you as I am from Scotland

I see no problem whatsoever of you thinking the Scots are better than the English... What's wrong with pride in your cultural and ethnic origins?"
Proud that by some random chance event your Scottish rather than welsh .

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By *oggoneMan over a year ago

Derry

" What's wrong with pride in your cultural and ethnic origins?"

I know you got annoyed before when I told you to read up on Irish History before talking about it in order to appear less if a fool. Here's a very brief paragraph on Nationalism, written by a foreigner though. I think it answers your question.

"The cheapest sort of pride is national pride; for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud; otherwise he would not have recourse to those which he shares with so many millions of his fellowmen. The man who is endowed with important personal qualities will be only too ready to see clearly in what respects his own nation falls short, since their failings will be constantly before his eyes. But every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.”

Arthur Schopenhauer

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By *oxychick35Couple over a year ago

thornaby

"Celebrating culture and the arts is fine and good.Although I've never trusted flag wavers and patriots."
. Bob you must be a barrel of laughs when England are playing footy or the olympics are on lol

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By *ensualtouch15Man over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

This got me thinking about Nationalism generally and whether it has any use or value in the modern world when its only consequence in history seems to have been conflict and suffering.

I don't like nationalism

It's on the rise and I'm a minority voice

it's feeling lonely out there

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" What's wrong with pride in your cultural and ethnic origins?

Arthur Schopenhauer

"
.

Im not familiar with the guy but he sounds like a bit of a knob and obviously the crap he writes will always attract some idiot to his camp

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's just that you'd expect it to be some teenager with depression and anxiety problems rather than a grown up

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to somebody else's."

Truth brother!

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By *ensualtouch15Man over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

"Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to somebody else's.

Truth brother!

This would be my inference

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think nationalism, encourages extremism, it brings out the worst traits out in people. Encourages people to commit unspeakable acts of violence. It’s like Wahhabism, it’s also Encourages the same. Extremism is the biggest problem ordinary people face. They prey on the weak minded and easily led and provide outlets of their rage and anger. These are the true enemy of democracy, the people who deal in absolutes. But we can save them, we help them, with patience, friendship and understanding. The world is not a bleak as they think, there is still good and positive things.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think nationalism, encourages extremism, it brings out the worst traits out in people. Encourages people to commit unspeakable acts of violence. It’s like Wahhabism, it’s also Encourages the same. Extremism is the biggest problem ordinary people face. They prey on the weak minded and easily led and provide outlets of their rage and anger. These are the true enemy of democracy, the people who deal in absolutes. But we can save them, we help them, with patience, friendship and understanding. The world is not a bleak as they think, there is still good and positive things. "

Well said .I think nationalism is just a phase of humanity it will come to pass.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to somebody else's..

That's because we are superior to many many others.

Of course you are.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This got me thinking about Nationalism generally and whether it has any use or value in the modern world when its only consequence in history seems to have been conflict and suffering.

I don't like nationalism

It's on the rise and I'm a minority voice

it's feeling lonely out there "

Nationalism Allows me to wear a "Dirk" dagger with 12" blade without fear of being arrested, as long as in full National dress

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This got me thinking about Nationalism generally and whether it has any use or value in the modern world when its only consequence in history seems to have been conflict and suffering.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Who is "we"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This got me thinking about Nationalism generally and whether it has any use or value in the modern world when its only consequence in history seems to have been conflict and suffering.

"
But Mr suit you want a English nationalist party.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to somebody else's.

Truth brother!

"
.

What a load of teenage nonsense

Go live in Yemen and tell me were all equal

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The adult version of Antifa have taken over the forums.

Lord help us

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By *ensualtouch15Man over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

"Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to somebody else's.

Truth brother!

What a load of teenage nonsense

Go live in Yemen and tell me were all equal

Point missed !

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This got me thinking about Nationalism generally and whether it has any use or value in the modern world when its only consequence in history seems to have been conflict and suffering.

But Mr suit you want a English nationalist party.

"
I Certainly do

but I was refraning myself for a while lol

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By *unandbuckCouple over a year ago

Sheffield

There's two sides to it in my opinion.

One side is as the OP described it, where it's manipulated by people with twisted minds, that can never end well and needs a careful eye.

The other side is an enjoyment that an areas cultural identity has some worth. Not superior to another. Otherwise are we just going to end up with a homogenous Starbucks filled, corporate world?

I personally enjoy the differences that other cultures offer. If we drive pride in local culture out of everyone, by insinuating it is racism under-cover there will be no local culture left.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to somebody else's.

Truth brother!

What a load of teenage nonsense

Go live in Yemen and tell me were all equal

Perhaps it would have been better if it were more explicit, to prevent this wretched diversion.

Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to everybody else's, simply by virtue of it being one's country.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to somebody else's.

Truth brother!

What a load of teenage nonsense

Go live in Yemen and tell me were all equal

"
My culture is better than your culture.Now that is teenage nonsense.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't think England or English people are any better or worse than other people or Country's , I simply want to belong to an independent country called England

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By *oo hot OP Couple over a year ago

North West

"I don't think England or English people are any better or worse than other people or Country's , I simply want to belong to an independent country called England

Perhaps you could articulate the reasons why you would like that. It may give you an insight into your underlying attitudes to others.

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By *heIcebreakersCouple over a year ago

Cramlington

This got me thinking about Nationalism generally and whether it has any use or value in the modern world when its only consequence in history seems to have been conflict and suffering.

You're right! The Scots and the Welsh need it beating out of them like the English have. . Does having a caravan in angelsey count as being Welsh

"
Makes you a manc or a scourser, depending on which site your caravan is pitched

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By *heIcebreakersCouple over a year ago

Cramlington

This got me thinking about Nationalism generally and whether it has any use or value in the modern world when its only consequence in history seems to have been conflict and suffering.

"
Pretty sure it was Colonel Plum in the library #HaventGotACluedo

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to somebody else's.

Truth brother!

What a load of teenage nonsense

Go live in Yemen and tell me were all equal

Point missed !

"
.

Yeah by you the adult antifa crew.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to somebody else's.

Truth brother!

What a load of teenage nonsense

Go live in Yemen and tell me were all equal

Point missed !

Yeah by you the adult antifa crew.

"
g

Okay what do you think the positive benefits of being a nationalist are?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Antifa are pretty great tho.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Okay what do you think the positive benefits of being a nationalist are? "

Necessity. You're at one with nature and your natural surroundings. Sparrows say, identify with other sparrows hence the existence of the flock or knot. This rule of nature applies within all species including sub-species and plant life.

The West (mainly) have chosen to ignore this, since WWII to be honest, and have opted for an atomization of the natural orders to the point that even the family unit within the western patriarchy is now almost deemed toxic through the corridors of western academia.

Libertarians, septics and civic nationalists along with the majority of the Left paradigm, pat themselves on the back for this destruction in the miscalculated conclusion (imo) that constitutions and individuals make up a society over the genetic make-up of a given society, albeit western, eastern, etc.

Once western society reaches the tipping point of atomization and are thus so weakened as a group, a new group (that will play by nature's rules) will come along and prove the old adage of 'might is right'.

So imo the main benefit of ethno-nationalism, which is abundant in most of the world bar the west, is that it's a necessity for the survival of the group. Be it arabs, northern europeans, ethiopians and all else.

Necessity trumps morality and religion.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Whoops! Went on one then.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This got me thinking about Nationalism generally and whether it has any use or value in the modern world when its only consequence in history seems to have been conflict and suffering.

its just another tool to divide and conquer control people on a national level, it's done thu sports on a local level and so on.What ever divides people is in essence bad for humanity. Were all the same and equally need the same things in life but unfortunately the people in power will not let humanity thrive because of their own fears of extinction.dictators kings bankers corporation will not give up power.

No matter what the cost is.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Depends how people define Nationalism and what side of a political fence you're sitting.

For some it means political independence for a particular country.

To others it means patriotism & loyalty.

Others it is the feeling of superiority over other countries.

Do we lock up Ulster Loyalists and Scottish Nationalists? Both could be regarded as extremists.

Religion has caused more wars and suffering than Nationalism. Whilst we're at it shall we make being religious a crime against humanity too?"
like comparing apples to pears!

Divide and rule politics must come to and end.!

Intrest banking and money manipulation must come to a stop for the world to get any better.War is bussiness.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Its mostly sports fault. Parts of East London are a nightmare during cricket matches between india and Pakistan. This kind of show of support for a national identity should be banned. These people should be embarrassed to mention where their families are from, like we English are. "

Who created Pakistan and India? Over 2 million people died moving houses

Who spead the seeds of doubt.?

They were living in peace for hundreds of years b4 the East India company decided that there's people were backwards because they didn't care so much about money and power.

So the evil people used religion to divide and conquer humanity once again. Africa / amarica /Australia/ similar situation & scenarios.

Its a cursed on humanity thanks to a few power hungry people takeing control and manipulateing the world.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's human nature" is not an answer that stands up to scrutiny.

We override our base instincts all the time, why would this be any different?"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" What's wrong with pride in your cultural and ethnic origins?

Arthur Schopenhauer

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Very similar belief system to the talmood created by the jews.!

Read the talmod to understand whabi doctrine.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 24/11/17 04:06:24]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There's two sides to it in my opinion.

One side is as the OP described it, where it's manipulated by people with twisted minds, that can never end well and needs a careful eye.

The other side is an enjoyment that an areas cultural identity has some worth. Not superior to another. Otherwise are we just going to end up with a homogenous Starbucks filled, corporate world?

I personally enjoy the differences that other cultures offer. If we drive pride in local culture out of everyone, by insinuating it is racism under-cover there will be no local culture left."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think England or English people are any better or worse than other people or Country's , I simply want to belong to an independent country called England

England is not independent.

Its dependence is the world. That's why they went out and destroyed the world takeing over by the usa next in line to take power is israil.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Okay what do you think the positive benefits of being a nationalist are?

Necessity trumps morality and religion."
good points

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By *or Fox SakeCouple over a year ago

Thornaby

There's a fine line between being proud of your cultural identity, and jingoistic bolloxs.

Over the last 18 months we've seen and heard a lot of jingoistic bolloxs on both sides of the Atlantic, pride migrating into thinly veiled xenophobia.

Patriotism has been used as a screen for simply hating what people don't understand or worse, what they actively choose not to understand.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think England or English people are any better or worse than other people or Country's , I simply want to belong to an independent country called England

England is not independent.

Its dependence is the world. That's why they went out and destroyed the world takeing over by the usa next in line to take power is israil. "

How did England destroy the world?

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

Who created Pakistan and India? Over 2 million people died moving houses

Who spead the seeds of doubt.?

They were living in peace for hundreds of years b4 the East India company decided that there's people were backwards because they didn't care so much about money and power.

So the evil people used religion to divide and conquer humanity once again. Africa / amarica /Australia/ similar situation & scenarios.

Its a cursed on humanity thanks to a few power hungry people takeing control and manipulateing the world.

You're correct. Its about time these cultures were disolved once again. The "nationalist" identities of Asia, Africa and the middle East must be forgotten if they are ever to modernise as we in England have. In What other country is it an offence to fly the national flag? This alone shows how advanced we in England have become thanks to our liberal socialist leadership.

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By *heIcebreakersCouple over a year ago

Cramlington

"The adult version of Antifa have taken over the forums.

Lord help us

"
Oh dear. My view is summed up best by Erich Fromm “Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one's country which is not part of one's love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship.”

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

"The adult version of Antifa have taken over the forums.

Lord help us

Oh dear. My view is summed up best by Erich Fromm “Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one's country which is not part of one's love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship.”"

Do you think that's why France is soo fucked? Such nationalism! While their economy crumbles around them! They need to wake up and join Europe and the world.

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By *heIcebreakersCouple over a year ago

Cramlington

Who created Pakistan and India? Over 2 million people died moving houses

Who spead the seeds of doubt.?

They were living in peace for hundreds of years b4 the East India company decided that there's people were backwards because they didn't care so much about money and power.

So the evil people used religion to divide and conquer humanity once again. Africa / amarica /Australia/ similar situation & scenarios.

Its a cursed on humanity thanks to a few power hungry people takeing control and manipulateing the world.

"
Under what law is it lllegal to fly the national flag? Got any examples of successful prosecutions? The thing about you whinynats is you love doing this routine where you make up things to be offended about, then expect the rest of us to rebut your absurd claims.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

Who created Pakistan and India? Over 2 million people died moving houses

Who spead the seeds of doubt.?

They were living in peace for hundreds of years b4 the East India company decided that there's people were backwards because they didn't care so much about money and power.

So the evil people used religion to divide and conquer humanity once again. Africa / amarica /Australia/ similar situation & scenarios.

Its a cursed on humanity thanks to a few power hungry people takeing control and manipulateing the world.

Under what law is it lllegal to fly the national flag? Got any examples of successful prosecutions? The thing about you whinynats is you love doing this routine where you make up things to be offended about, then expect the rest of us to rebut your absurd claims."

Just Google "man told to take down union jack flag" there seems to be a lot of stories there. Even if some are because of the "noise" of nationalism! Whatever the reason. There is no place in the modern world for the exhibition of national or cultural pride!

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By *heIcebreakersCouple over a year ago

Cramlington

Who created Pakistan and India? Over 2 million people died moving houses

Who spead the seeds of doubt.?

They were living in peace for hundreds of years b4 the East India company decided that there's people were backwards because they didn't care so much about money and power.

So the evil people used religion to divide and conquer humanity once again. Africa / amarica /Australia/ similar situation & scenarios.

Its a cursed on humanity thanks to a few power hungry people takeing control and manipulateing the world.

"
So you have no evidence and go on to make sweeping assertions that are meaningless and unsupportable. Good work that.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

Who created Pakistan and India? Over 2 million people died moving houses

Who spead the seeds of doubt.?

They were living in peace for hundreds of years b4 the East India company decided that there's people were backwards because they didn't care so much about money and power.

So the evil people used religion to divide and conquer humanity once again. Africa / amarica /Australia/ similar situation & scenarios.

Its a cursed on humanity thanks to a few power hungry people takeing control and manipulateing the world.

So you have no evidence and go on to make sweeping assertions that are meaningless and unsupportable. Good work that."

I'm not going to spoon feed you. I'm not your precious country that you so wish to suckle upon.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Okay what do you think the positive benefits of being a nationalist are?

Necessity trumps morality and religion."

So Nationalism is a response to the perceived degradation of society, acting as a cleanser and a reset button which will return us back to the centuries old hegemony?

The rejection of morality and religion in favour of necessity, in your mind this is important.

So all means to bring about the removal of the perceived situation by any means necessary is right and proper?

It begs the question, how far are you willing to go? What are you prepared to do?

If so should people be fearful?

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

What about regionism? How can this be stamped out? Surely a more extreme version of nationalism.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Antifa are pretty great tho."

In the same sense as frosties are grrrrrreat?

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By *ensualtouch15Man over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

" What about regionism? How can this be stamped out? Surely a more extreme version of nationalism. "

Not more extreme but equally divisive

I call them all tribalism , granted it seems to be an innate human trait certainly a product of evolution , but one that could be overcome with cerebral awareness x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The adult version of Antifa have taken over the forums.

Lord help us

More pseudo babble.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Who created Pakistan and India? Over 2 million people died moving houses

Who spead the seeds of doubt.?

They were living in peace for hundreds of years b4 the East India company decided that there's people were backwards because they didn't care so much about money and power.

So the evil people used religion to divide and conquer humanity once again. Africa / amarica /Australia/ similar situation & scenarios.

Its a cursed on humanity thanks to a few power hungry people takeing control and manipulateing the world.

"
.

Lived in peace!!.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

since a few people voted out of a political union with Europe!.... World History has gone crazy

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By *heIcebreakersCouple over a year ago

Cramlington

"The adult version of Antifa have taken over the forums.

Lord help us

More pseudo babble.

"
It's that mix of certainty and ignorance that makes you such charming company

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" What about regionism? How can this be stamped out? Surely a more extreme version of nationalism.

Not more extreme but equally divisive

I call them all tribalism , granted it seems to be an innate human trait certainly a product of evolution , but one that could be overcome with cerebral awareness x"
Nationalism and religion are part of our infancy as a species.We will grow up and replace such things with reason and logic.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Okay what do you think the positive benefits of being a nationalist are?

Necessity trumps morality and religion."

Arguments based on "natural rules" are never compelling.

We constantly defy nature's rules as a species, so what would make you think we would suddenly be bound by them?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

let's face it ... there isn't a problem with nationalism ... except of course the abhorrence that is english/british nationalism ... that obviously needs to be stamped out

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By *eedsandyMan over a year ago

Leeds

I don't think the original poster understands the definition of nationalism!

The OP thinks that it is a belief that where you are born, or what religion your parents follow makes you think that you are better than someone born elsewhere, or to parents of a different religion.

That is not the definition of nationalism at all.

The OP also thinks that nationalism is all about right-wing or extreme right wing politics.

Nationalism basically amounts to 2 things:

1 The attitude that members of a nation have when they care about their national identity.

2 Their actions when trying to achieve, or retain self-determination.

I don't think that anyone would ever believe that the IRA or Sinn Fein were or are particularly right wing, or that where they were born made them better than anyone else, or that their religion made them better than anyone else.

They wanted Northern Ireland to be independent of the UK. They wanted it to be a republic. They were absolutely the definition of nationalists. To most people, the actions of the IRA amounted to terrorism in trying to achieve that aim. To them, it amounted to a fight for freedom.

The fall of the USSR and of communism across the former eastern bloc, was also about nationalism. The right for those countries to have self-determination. No one would call them right-wing.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Nationalism can be a very bad thing as its been proved over the years with wars and violence...on the other hand theres nothing wrong with being proud of your country...but not feeling your better than everyone else

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It is good with a small dose of it, cos the liberal left and feminism is doing genocide to their own people with their open borders policy, the only countries that dont do it is the slavic countries as they want to have their traditions.

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By *ensualtouch15Man over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

Okay what do you think the positive benefits of being a nationalist are?

Necessity trumps morality and religion."

Yes Adolf xxx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"the only countries that dont do it is the slavic countries as they want to have their traditions."

you've never been to Caernarfon then shag? they have haribos so you'd fit right in

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It is good with a small dose of it, cos the liberal left and feminism is doing genocide to their own people with their open borders policy, the only countries that dont do it is the slavic countries as they want to have their traditions."

Genocide Shag.How?. Via immigration and integration and multiculturalism.

Cultural genocide?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The adult version of Antifa have taken over the forums.

Lord help us

More pseudo babble.

It's that mix of certainty and ignorance that makes you such charming company"
.

Well I've yet to hear a convincing argument against being proud to be British except pseudo babble nonsense read from a highbrow book and repeated by the gullible and deluded grown up antifa student Wally's

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Slavs are terrible people until they come here.... Then they turn into doctors, lawyers,brain surgeons, rocket scientists and single handedly run the country and the NHS

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

" What about regionism? How can this be stamped out? Surely a more extreme version of nationalism.

Not more extreme but equally divisive

I call them all tribalism , granted it seems to be an innate human trait certainly a product of evolution , but one that could be overcome with cerebral awareness x"

Yet it seems more powerful every year. Not less.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" What about regionism? How can this be stamped out? Surely a more extreme version of nationalism.

Not more extreme but equally divisive

I call them all tribalism , granted it seems to be an innate human trait certainly a product of evolution , but one that could be overcome with cerebral awareness x

Yet it seems more powerful every year. Not less. "
we'll all end living in corporate city states anyway.The only tribe that'll count will be the apple tribe and Google tribe.I think the Amazon's will be assimilated.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"the only countries that dont do it is the slavic countries as they want to have their traditions.

you've never been to Caernarfon then shag? they have haribos so you'd fit right in

"
I havent been there yet and yes. I would like it as they got lots of haribos

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Genocide Shag.How?. Via immigration and integration and multiculturalism.

Cultural genocide?"
I would say via immigration as that destroys a culture, as most of them come from a war zone, so cant integrate to a western society. I bet most of those that welcomed them in 2015 when it started is regretting it now.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Genocide Shag.How?. Via immigration and integration and multiculturalism.

Cultural genocide?I would say via immigration as that destroys a culture, as most of them come from a war zone, so cant integrate to a western society. I bet most of those that welcomed them in 2015 when it started is regretting it now. "

I bet those who invaded there countries or bombed them back to the dark ages aren't though

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By *unandbuckCouple over a year ago

Sheffield

Genocide Shag.How?. Via immigration and integration and multiculturalism.

Does that include Swedes in Alicante??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Genocide Shag.How?. Via immigration and integration and multiculturalism.

Does that include Swedes in Alicante??"
No, we are eu sitizens, so got free movement

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By *unandbuckCouple over a year ago

Sheffield

Does that include Swedes in Alicante??No, we are eu sitizens, so got free movement

I didn't think you'd gone there illegally. But are Spain and Sweden culturally different?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Arguments based on "natural rules" are never compelling.

We constantly defy nature's rules as a species, so what would make you think we would suddenly be bound by them?"

Your angry opinions are rarely compelling you mean

Everything needs to be "sudden" in your world... Lol

That's naive thinking.... Sure We break the rules but we are paying with the price with pollution and global warming etc. etc.

I think where nationalism fails is that humans (when not threatened) are social animals and we benefit from cross pollinating the gene pool.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" What about regionism? How can this be stamped out? Surely a more extreme version of nationalism.

Not more extreme but equally divisive

I call them all tribalism , granted it seems to be an innate human trait certainly a product of evolution , but one that could be overcome with cerebral awareness x

Yet it seems more powerful every year. Not less. we'll all end living in corporate city states anyway.The only tribe that'll count will be the apple tribe and Google tribe.I think the Amazon's will be assimilated.

What worries me is that you seem to think that's a good thing.

Can we have safer sex by just plugging into a VR neurolink while we are at it?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" What about regionism? How can this be stamped out? Surely a more extreme version of nationalism.

Not more extreme but equally divisive

I call them all tribalism , granted it seems to be an innate human trait certainly a product of evolution , but one that could be overcome with cerebral awareness x

What worries me is that you seem to think that's a good thing.

Can we have safer sex by just plugging into a VR neurolink while we are at it? "
Why is it a bad thing.Its not far removed from our situation today .It's seems to be the future of capitalism.Mega corporations would probably do a better job than politicians.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Absolute power corrupting for one thing

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By *inkyHnSCouple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Here is Scotland its

Scottish Nationalism - very bad

British Nationalism - very good

Go figure lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Question ?

Why isn't thier an uproar from the left when Scotish nationism , or Welsh or Irish is proposed ?

But if English Nationalism is mentioned it's treated differently ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Slavs are terrible people until they come here.... Then they turn into doctors, lawyers,brain surgeons, rocket scientists and single handedly run the country and the NHS

Can you answer the question I set earlier please?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Absolute power corrupting for one thing "
Maybe....I think a company providing you with a job a home and healthcare and education and all your utilities and security would be more efficient and most likely of a higher standard.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In return for your soul

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Absolute power corrupting for one thing Maybe....I think a company providing you with a job a home and healthcare and education and all your utilities and security would be more efficient and most likely of a higher standard.

"
Joseph Rowntree tried this very successfully

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Arguments based on "natural rules" are never compelling.

We constantly defy nature's rules as a species, so what would make you think we would suddenly be bound by them?

Your angry opinions are rarely compelling you mean

1/10

Try harder next time.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A peculiar genocide whereby there's no camps, killing, or hardship of any kind.

Trust white people to get the nicest genocide.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Slavs are terrible people until they come here.... Then they turn into doctors, lawyers,brain surgeons, rocket scientists and single handedly run the country and the NHS

Can you answer the question I set earlier please?"
.

Nah no nay never saw it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Does that include Swedes in Alicante??No, we are eu sitizens, so got free movement

I didn't think you'd gone there illegally. But are Spain and Sweden culturally different?"
It is pretty much the same, although here in spain they have siesta and take it more easy.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Slavs are terrible people until they come here.... Then they turn into doctors, lawyers,brain surgeons, rocket scientists and single handedly run the country and the NHS

Can you answer the question I set earlier please?.

Nah no nay never saw it.

So you would consider you intent peaceful?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Slavs are terrible people until they come here.... Then they turn into doctors, lawyers,brain surgeons, rocket scientists and single handedly run the country and the NHS

Can you answer the question I set earlier please?.

Nah no nay never saw it.

So you would consider you intent peaceful?"
.

Depends

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By *oo hot OP Couple over a year ago

North West

Genocide Shag.How?. Via immigration and integration and multiculturalism.

Does that include Swedes in Alicante??"

Ha ha - nice one

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Arguments based on "natural rules" are never compelling.

We constantly defy nature's rules as a species, so what would make you think we would suddenly be bound by them?

Your angry opinions are rarely compelling you mean

1/10

Try harder next time.

11 out of 10 for dodging the point.

I'm laughing at a white man denouncing white people. What's next?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Identity is great. But why should we identify ourselves by some powerful people who decided to draw a line and call us British?.

I don't know hunglatino why do we identify ourselves as Latinos

Haha even though I'm British. Ethnicity vs country? Apples and pears.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Arguments based on "natural rules" are never compelling.

We constantly defy nature's rules as a species, so what would make you think we would suddenly be bound by them?

Your angry opinions are rarely compelling you mean

1/10

Try harder next time.

11 out of 10 for dodging the point.

I'm laughing at a white man denouncing white people. What's next? "

Well, more specifically the idea of "white genocide".

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

Arguments based on "natural rules" are never compelling.

We constantly defy nature's rules as a species, so what would make you think we would suddenly be bound by them?

Your angry opinions are rarely compelling you mean

1/10

Try harder next time.

11 out of 10 for dodging the point.

I'm laughing at a white man denouncing white people. What's next?

Well, more specifically the idea of "white genocide"."

You'd like all white people dead?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

To appease his own sense of guilt

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yes Adolf xxx"

Ad hominem by way of Goodwin's Law. That's the best you've got?

If my alluding to the fact we're a species of life on a planet and are therefore governed by said planet's physical, environmental and biological principles, thus in your mind makes me the reincarnation of Hitler, then so be it.

I wonder what you deem the Natural Sciences to be? The Brownshirts, perhaps?

Go back to bed, fella.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Arguments based on "natural rules" are never compelling.

We constantly defy nature's rules as a species, so what would make you think we would suddenly be bound by them?"

Try jumping off a 50ft wall and see if you're bound by physics.

Try slurping a bit of anthrax and see if you're bound by biology.

You can ignore nature all you like but don't deem to think she'll ignore you.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Arguments based on "natural rules" are never compelling.

We constantly defy nature's rules as a species, so what would make you think we would suddenly be bound by them?

Your angry opinions are rarely compelling you mean

1/10

Try harder next time.

11 out of 10 for dodging the point.

I'm laughing at a white man denouncing white people. What's next?

Well, more specifically the idea of "white genocide".

You'd like all white people dead?"

Sure, why wouldn't I mean the thing I didn't say?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Arguments based on "natural rules" are never compelling.

We constantly defy nature's rules as a species, so what would make you think we would suddenly be bound by them?

Try jumping off a 50ft wall and see if you're bound by physics.

Try slurping a bit of anthrax and see if you're bound by biology.

You can ignore nature all you like but don't deem to think she'll ignore you. "

That's nice, but it doesn't really have any bearing on your original premise, now does it?

You were making the case that there's a natural law that says because species don't intermingle, therefore people shouldn't, and if they do, a people that won't intermingle will eventually come along and do something ill-defined but unpleasant, because something about might makes right.

This ignores that humans are, of course, the same species, which kind of puts a dampener on your premise right off the bat.

Second, it also ignores that these kind of "natural rules" are a fiction. People who subscribe to them work backwards from their conclusion and then find evidence to fit. If you want to believe that people should be divided because that's how it ought to be, then it certainly would be compelling to point to flocks of birds and think "see, they do it, it must be natural". It's the same kind of thinking that leads people to conclude that girls like pink because when we were all cavemen they spent their days gathering edible berries of a similar colour.

And finally, even if these rules were real, not only do they not apply to us, as we've progressed beyond acting solely on instinct, like the behaviour of the animals you cite, but you're also assuming that because they're " natural " they're therefore good.

To borrow from your example above, anthrax is also natural, but nobody would argue that because of that it's good.

Like I said, it was a poor argument to begin with, and your defense hasn't improved matters.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Arguments based on "natural rules" are never compelling.

We constantly defy nature's rules as a species, so what would make you think we would suddenly be bound by them?

Try jumping off a 50ft wall and see if you're bound by physics.

Try slurping a bit of anthrax and see if you're bound by biology.

You can ignore nature all you like but don't deem to think she'll ignore you.

That's nice, but it doesn't really have any bearing on your original premise, now does it?

This ignores that humans are, of course, the same species, which kind of puts a dampener on your premise right off the bat.

To borrow from your example above, anthrax is also natural, but nobody would argue that because of that it's good.

Like I said, it was a poor argument to begin with, and your defense hasn't improved matters. "

For once I mostly agree with you but I'll add a few points

1. Consumption of anthrax isn't a natural process and doesn't support your defense of the unnatural

2. A general point is that when breaking with what I'm going to call traditional rather than the natural order or whatever, there's a good point that you have the onus of proving that you aren't inadvertently doing harm (and that is difficult).

Many modern inventions have proven to be disastrous but time (tied to tradition) generally draws out the errors and shows what is probably a good course of action.

I certainly wouldn't be arguing against denying our base instincts or acting against nature as if you somehow know better.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Arguments based on "natural rules" are never compelling.

We constantly defy nature's rules as a species, so what would make you think we would suddenly be bound by them?

Your angry opinions are rarely compelling you mean

1/10

Try harder next time.

11 out of 10 for dodging the point.

I'm laughing at a white man denouncing white people. What's next?

Well, more specifically the idea of "white genocide"."
.

What a racist xenophobic bigot

This sort of comment deserves a lifetime ban from Sainsburys

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That's nice, but it doesn't really have any bearing on your original premise, now does it?

That's also nice but I was merely responding to your post, not adding weight to my previous one.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I never said people shouldn't intermingle, stop putting into words in my mouth. I stated a fact that humans identify with groups.

But on the whole, yep, I stand by your above post. When you displace, disinherit, atomize, etc, a group, however the group is defined be it ethnically, religiously and so on then you sow the seeds of destruction for said group. Not rocket science.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

1. Consumption of anthrax isn't a natural process and doesn't support your defense of the unnatural

1: I said nothing about consuming anthrax, simply that anthrax itself is natural. So the point still stands.

2: The standard your using isn't useful. If you could show that your inadvertently doing harm, then you'd be no longer doing that harm inadvertently.

But it is a remarkably reasonable sounding way to stymie progress, after all anything you do could inadvertently cause harm... For a given value of harm, anyway.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I never said people shouldn't intermingle, stop putting into words in my mouth. I stated a fact that humans identify with groups.

"I never said don't intermingle!"

And a paragraph later -

"If groups aren't a monolithic whole, they're dooooooooomed!"

I see.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This ignores that humans are, of course, the same species, which kind of puts a dampener on your premise right off the bat.

"This rule of nature applies within all species including sub-species and plant life."

You're confounding yourself here, I actually alluded to species and sub-species including plant life. What bearing does this have on my sparrow example anyway? Sparrows are aves but show me a flock of mixed sparrows let alone a flock of birds of all hue.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This ignores that humans are, of course, the same species, which kind of puts a dampener on your premise right off the bat.

"This rule of nature applies within all species including sub-species and plant life."

But as humans are all the same species, and we have no sub species, the peculiar notion you have of keeping to ones one kind isn't really holding much water.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I never said don't intermingle!"

And a paragraph later -

"If groups aren't a monolithic whole, they're dooooooooomed!"

I see.

I never said people shouldn't intermingle. A group is made up of people, no?

Read properly what I write then respond thoughtfully. Jeez.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Its no point trying to convince people they are wrong, it only makes people more resolute they are right.

Please just no tikiwiki torches please!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But as humans are all the same species, and we have no sub species, the peculiar notion you have of keeping to ones one kind isn't really holding much water."

Peculiar. That's funny because all around the world these group principles I fist pertained to are at play.

If you don't want to acknowledge the existence of ethnic groups then that's up to you.

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By *or Fox SakeCouple over a year ago

Thornaby

Who created Pakistan and India? Over 2 million people died moving houses

Who spead the seeds of doubt.?

They were living in peace for hundreds of years b4 the East India company decided that there's people were backwards because they didn't care so much about money and power.

So the evil people used religion to divide and conquer humanity once again. Africa / amarica /Australia/ similar situation & scenarios.

Its a cursed on humanity thanks to a few power hungry people takeing control and manipulateing the world.

There are two examples of this when you Google it, two,not hundreds. One is provided by the Daily Express ( presumably because they'd ran out of stories about greatest freeze ever and that eating coal can reduce blood pressure), the other from my local paper, a man had been using a lamppost as a flagpole, and that's illegal, doesn't matter whose flag it is.

Sorry to rain on your parade.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Its no point trying to convince people they are wrong, it only makes people more resolute they are right.

Please just no tikiwiki torches please!"
.

Can we at least still pitchfork the odd Gerry

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

Who created Pakistan and India? Over 2 million people died moving houses

Who spead the seeds of doubt.?

They were living in peace for hundreds of years b4 the East India company decided that there's people were backwards because they didn't care so much about money and power.

So the evil people used religion to divide and conquer humanity once again. Africa / amarica /Australia/ similar situation & scenarios.

Its a cursed on humanity thanks to a few power hungry people takeing control and manipulateing the world.

Sorry to rain on your parade. "

So we need to start campaigning in earnest to get this kind of thing banned! Asap! It's obscene.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There's is a fella on my street we call the flag man.He flies a different flag every other day.He gets complaints about the foreign flags he hosts up his pole.Apparently flying a Nigerian flag on their indepence day offends some.I do live in Gods waiting room though.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The adult version of Antifa have taken over the forums.

Lord help us

More pseudo babble.

It's that mix of certainty and ignorance that makes you such charming company.

"
..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

1. Consumption of anthrax isn't a natural process and doesn't support your defense of the unnatural

1: I said nothing about consuming anthrax, simply that anthrax itself is natural. So the point still stands.

2: The standard your using isn't useful. If you could show that your inadvertently doing harm, then you'd be no longer doing that harm inadvertently.

But it is a remarkably reasonable sounding way to stymie progress, after all anything you do could inadvertently cause harm... For a given value of harm, anyway.

1. Logic really isn't your strength... Let's just say it's also not bad which is what you were trying to say (if not consumed)

2. I knew the point would go way over your head - I'll refer you back to climate change, thalidomide, CFCs, leaded petrol, fructose glucose corn syrup and many more things as you try to claim that breaking nature's laws is the smart thing to do.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

"The adult version of Antifa have taken over the forums.

Lord help us

More pseudo babble.

It's that mix of certainty and ignorance that makes you such charming company.

This thread isn't about the dangers of people being proud to be British! The numbers of nationalist brits is tiny these days and not worth worrying about! The danger is from 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants who are still proud of their African/ Caribbean/ Indian/ Asian / Welsh/ Scottish/ French/ Irish heritage. This is where division within modern society is growing. Public displays of nationalism or cultralism should be banned now before it's too late! Such as St Patrick's day, and the Notting hill carnival.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I love your style of trolling

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

"I love your style of trolling

It's a gift.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The adult version of Antifa have taken over the forums.

Lord help us

More pseudo babble.

It's that mix of certainty and ignorance that makes you such charming company.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But as humans are all the same species, and we have no sub species, the peculiar notion you have of keeping to ones one kind isn't really holding much water.

Peculiar. That's funny because all around the world these group principles I fist pertained to are at play.

If you don't want to acknowledge the existence of ethnic groups then that's up to you.

Oh, they're certainly a thing, but they're a social construct so their legitimacy as a basis for these natural laws is very suspect.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

1. Logic really isn't your strength... Let's just say it's also not bad which is what you were trying to say (if not consumed)

1] I'm not inclined to indulge you any further on this, you've invented something, claimed I said it, and are railing against it. Have fun with that.

2] You're also not going to get very far with with claiming that people who disagree with you "missed the point". I understand exactly what you're getting at, and I told you exactly why "inadvertent harm" is a useless metric.

And all of the things you listed just prove the point, whether things are good or bad isn't relevant because the point was that these so called natural laws aren't real and they wouldn't apply to us even if they were.

Citing the things that we've done that are bad is just as good an example of this as citing things that are good.

So, thanks for that.

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By *oo hot OP Couple over a year ago

North West

[Removed by poster at 25/11/17 23:35:38]

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By *oo hot OP Couple over a year ago

North West

"The adult version of Antifa have taken over the forums.

Lord help us

More pseudo babble.

It's that mix of certainty and ignorance that makes you such charming company.

So my original post has taken on a life of its own.

FWIW. My OP was a reaction to the case of Mladic at The Hague. He was/is a Nationalist and his tragic legacy in the Balkans is a million times worse than the verdict against him.

He has actually won.

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By *rHornyGentMan over a year ago

South East London

Nationalism is bad. Very few people like being alone with no friends.

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By *inky-MinxWoman over a year ago

Grantham

"Identity is great. But why should we identify ourselves by some powerful people who decided to draw a line and call us British?"

I've not read the whole thread but we didn't get a line, we got the sea

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By *inky-MinxWoman over a year ago

Grantham

I think nationalism has its place, we as people need to belong to things. A family, a neighbourhood, a town etc. and a nation can be an extension of that.

It makes the World Cup fun too

But when it is used to start wars it is not so good.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" because the point was that these so called natural laws aren't real and they wouldn't apply to us even if they were.

I'll just quote this here as a monument to your silliness...denying gravity now. What next for demonjohnsaysyourewrong?

Sounds like we can all go r*pe, murder and pillage.... If we are above natural laws we must also be above ALL laws... Legal, social or conventional.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I told you exactly why "inadvertent harm" is a useless metric.

Clearly STILL missing the point

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I can't think of any modern war that British nationalism has caused or helped.

Falklands ... No not really, I think it was a very just war.

Iraq, Afghanistan, both hated by the British people. Syria, they couldn't even pass it on parliament due to British people's feelings on it.

Aden, meh maybe.

Ww2 certainly not.

Ww1 possibly maybe if your antifa.

Napoleonic, definitely not.

War or the roses, yes, I agree nationalism, wait no countyism!

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By *andACouple over a year ago

glasgow

Nationalism is divise and ugly. The idea that you are better than someone based on where you are born is ridiculous.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh, they're certainly a thing, but they're a social construct so their legitimacy as a basis for these natural laws is very suspect. "

This 'thing' (race) that you deem as having no genetic grounding but is merely a social construct is utter mooseballs. Also its 'legitimacy' as a basis for natural laws is quite evident too, through studies in environmental factors.

But my initial point was in response to the perceived positives of nationalism. Wherein my answer was to say it isn't a choice that bears fruit, be it positive or negative but moreover is a necessity of life. As is seen throughout the natural world.

Marxism and critical theory are cancerous to the sciences.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Nationalism is divise and ugly. The idea that you are better than someone based on where you are born is ridiculous."

That's not nationalism though is it, that's elitism manifest as supremacy.

Nationalism is identifying with your genetic heritage through practices of culture, tradition, etc.

Just because Mr Jones loves his kids more than Mr Smith's kids down the road, doesn't mean Mr Jones dislikes or hates the Smith's kids does it.

The conclusion you have drawn is a logical fallacy.

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By *andACouple over a year ago

glasgow

"Nationalism is divise and ugly. The idea that you are better than someone based on where you are born is ridiculous.

That's not nationalism though is it, that's elitism manifest as supremacy.

Nationalism is identifying with your genetic heritage through practices of culture, tradition, etc.

Just because Mr Jones loves his kids more than Mr Smith's kids down the road, doesn't mean Mr Jones dislikes or hates the Smith's kids does it.

The conclusion you have drawn is a logical fallacy."

How naieve. Look at the carnage nationalism has caused throughout history. You claim nationalism is about idnetifying with your geneteic heritage when the reality is people have no idea what their geneteic heritage is (and it shouldn't matter anyway)

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By *andACouple over a year ago

glasgow

How naive. Look at the carnage nationalism has caused throughout history. You claim nationalism is about identifying with your genetic heritage when the reality is people have no idea what their genetic heritage is (and it shouldn't matter anyway)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Naive? You're now stating that war, which is almost exclusively waged by countries' governments (ie, on a national scale), is the sole effect of nationalism.

Do you not realize when you watch a world cup and egg on your country, that that too is a direct effect of nationalism. Yet there's no carnage is there, just goals, saves and fans chanting their respective country's national anthems.

It's akin to saying, if someone from Denmark punched me then that's the fault of Nationalism due to the fact it was a Dane who delivered the blow.

Laughable.

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

Patriotism is confused with nationalism by many.

As demonstrated above.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So it's patriotism when it's footie and nationalism when it's war?

Or put another way, if something is done or said on a national level that has negative connotations then we'll lump it on the doorstep of nationalism but if it's a positive effect then we'll find another word to best explain its definition.

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