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How does a dictatorship start?.
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Whats happened in Sweden?
Dictatorships can happen a number of ways, a non democratic change of power like a coup, military takeover or civil war. In democracies it happens slowly where the protections are eroded, power becomes more centralised and government becomes used as a tool to protect the encumbent and attack dissenters. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Whats happened in Sweden?
Dictatorships can happen a number of ways, a non democratic change of power like a coup, military takeover or civil war. In democracies it happens slowly where the protections are eroded, power becomes more centralised and government becomes used as a tool to protect the encumbent and attack dissenters."
For example, a hot topic is the immigration crisis, no one is allowed to talk about it and just accept it, the media is good to cover what is happening there. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"anytime the tory's win an election  slight contradiction in terms since they get voted in?  "
no ... the question was 'what is your view of how it is starting?'
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A serious answer would be that there are two distinct ways for a democracy to degenerate into dictatorship.
The first and obvious one is by seizure of power by force of arms. However there is now another way that most either refuse to believe works or are plain unaware of. This is voter suppression by means of personal data analytics and targeted propaganda messages through social media. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"anytime the tory's win an election slight contradiction in terms since they get voted in?
no ... the question was 'what is your view of how it is starting?'
"
no...it was "how does a dictatorship start". Hardly by a democratic voting process. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"anytime the tory's win an election slight contradiction in terms since they get voted in?
no ... the question was 'what is your view of how it is starting?'
no...it was "how does a dictatorship start". Hardly by a democratic voting process."
no ... shag asked the question in his first post and the question he asked was 'what is your view of how it is starting?' ... i answered the question |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Whats happened in Sweden?
Dictatorships can happen a number of ways, a non democratic change of power like a coup, military takeover or civil war. In democracies it happens slowly where the protections are eroded, power becomes more centralised and government becomes used as a tool to protect the encumbent and attack dissenters.For example, a hot topic is the immigration crisis, no one is allowed to talk about it and just accept it, the media is good to cover what is happening there."
If nobody is allowed to talk about it, how do you know about it? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Whats happened in Sweden?
Dictatorships can happen a number of ways, a non democratic change of power like a coup, military takeover or civil war. In democracies it happens slowly where the protections are eroded, power becomes more centralised and government becomes used as a tool to protect the encumbent and attack dissenters.For example, a hot topic is the immigration crisis, no one is allowed to talk about it and just accept it, the media is good to cover what is happening there.
If nobody is allowed to talk about it, how do you know about it?"
I meant like talk about it openly and voice what is wrong, such as free speech. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Yes, but, if people can't talk about it openly, as you claim, how then do you know about it?
"
By relatives and as well the news, so I take it you havent heard about it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes, but, if people can't talk about it openly, as you claim, how then do you know about it?
By relatives and as well the news, so I take it you havent heard about it?"
Wait a second?
How can you have heard about this in the news if you can't talk about this openly? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Yes, but, if people can't talk about it openly, as you claim, how then do you know about it?
By relatives and as well the news, so I take it you havent heard about it?
Wait a second?
How can you have heard about this in the news if you can't talk about this openly?"
By alternative media. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Which rather puts the lie to the notion that "nobody can talk about it" doesn't it?"
It depends, as the media usually gets away with it, but not the average joe.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Which rather puts the lie to the notion that "nobody can talk about it" doesn't it?It depends, as the media usually gets away with it, but not the average joe."
But you just claimed that one of the ways you hear about this thing, that is definitely a real thing, of which people must not speak was from other people.
Now you're telling us that people can't talk about it, only the media can.
...Except they can't, as per earlier claims.
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
A tough question but I think if the people are very weak and not taking an interest in what goes on around them,and or the ability for people to follow like sheep without trying to realise what is happening.
This is a big question |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Which rather puts the lie to the notion that "nobody can talk about it" doesn't it?It depends, as the media usually gets away with it, but not the average joe.
But you just claimed that one of the ways you hear about this thing, that is definitely a real thing, of which people must not speak was from other people.
Now you're telling us that people can't talk about it, only the media can.
...Except they can't, as per earlier claims.
"
You are being facetious and know well that there are various channels of communication. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Which rather puts the lie to the notion that "nobody can talk about it" doesn't it?It depends, as the media usually gets away with it, but not the average joe.
But you just claimed that one of the ways you hear about this thing, that is definitely a real thing, of which people must not speak was from other people.
Now you're telling us that people can't talk about it, only the media can.
...Except they can't, as per earlier claims.
You are being facetious and know well that there are various channels of communication. "
I'm more being pedantic than facetious, truth be told.
The rub is trying to coax an explanation for how information about this forbidden topic gets disseminated if nobody is allowed to even talk about it.
And beyond that, to show that this idea that "you can't talk about immigrants!" is a fantasy.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Whats happened in Sweden?
Dictatorships can happen a number of ways, a non democratic change of power like a coup, military takeover or civil war. In democracies it happens slowly where the protections are eroded, power becomes more centralised and government becomes used as a tool to protect the encumbent and attack dissenters.For example, a hot topic is the immigration crisis, no one is allowed to talk about it and just accept it, the media is good to cover what is happening there."
So is the media the dictatorship?
Sadly, without wishing to appear racist, the majority seem to happen in African countries....where they hold “free and open” elections....as ZanuPF have promised to do next year. Like the past umpteen elections in Zimbabwe.
The “dictatorship” in UK politics? This could happen if Parliament decide to block brexit against the (perhaps foolish) will of the people who voted to leave EU in a referendum....?
I’ll throw that into the melting pot...but one thing is for sure, Shag. You have never lived in a dictatorship! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Whats happened in Sweden?
Dictatorships can happen a number of ways, a non democratic change of power like a coup, military takeover or civil war. In democracies it happens slowly where the protections are eroded, power becomes more centralised and government becomes used as a tool to protect the encumbent and attack dissenters.For example, a hot topic is the immigration crisis, no one is allowed to talk about it and just accept it, the media is good to cover what is happening there.
So is the media the dictatorship?
Sadly, without wishing to appear racist, the majority seem to happen in African countries....where they hold “free and open” elections....as ZanuPF have promised to do next year. Like the past umpteen elections in Zimbabwe.
The “dictatorship” in UK politics? This could happen if Parliament decide to block brexit against the (perhaps foolish) will of the people who voted to leave EU in a referendum....?
I’ll throw that into the melting pot...but one thing is for sure, Shag. You have never lived in a dictatorship!"
In sweden it is more the feminists fundamentalists and second the mainstream media to cover what really is happening. I can see sweden to be like north korea in the future. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Which rather puts the lie to the notion that "nobody can talk about it" doesn't it?It depends, as the media usually gets away with it, but not the average joe.
But you just claimed that one of the ways you hear about this thing, that is definitely a real thing, of which people must not speak was from other people.
Now you're telling us that people can't talk about it, only the media can.
...Except they can't, as per earlier claims.
You are being facetious and know well that there are various channels of communication.
I'm more being pedantic than facetious, truth be told.
The rub is trying to coax an explanation for how information about this forbidden topic gets disseminated if nobody is allowed to even talk about it.
And beyond that, to show that this idea that "you can't talk about immigrants!" is a fantasy.
"
Either way you know that there is private communication between individuals alongside alternative media such as YouTube in opposition to standard public media channels if the press, TV and radio.
Pendantic, facetious or whatever... What was your point? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Either way you know that there is private communic--- "
I'm going to stop you there, because you've fixated on something inconsequential.
The conspiracy theory of "*Those people* are up to no good, and everyone knows it, but you can't say anything about *them* because then the liberals/feminists/marxists/reverse vampires will get you" is an old one and gets trotted out endlessly.
And like all conspiracy theories, it's self fulfilling. You don't see this "truth" anywhere with real journalism, so you seek out "alternative news" sites that reinforce the conspiracy that you know as the truth, and the reason you had to find out about it on some loons blog is that *they* are forbidding it from being spoken about. Which makes sense to you, why else aren't people talking about what you know to be true?
And of course it provides a cover for when you voice your theory in public and people do not respond well to it. Must be that liberal-Jew media what got to them, not that my ideas are repugnant dogshit.
Of course, like all conspiracy theories it's fundamentally ridiculous, which is why you ask basic questions about it to highlight how stupid it is.
Like how does information about this most forbidden topic get disseminated if nobody is allowed to even talk about it?
Or, if it's so forbidden how do we account for the unending torrent of resources and people willing and eager to spit venom about how immigrants are awful. There's a whole industry of people who make their bones by telling people who want to be scared of immigrants what they want to hear.
How is that possible if these ideas are utterly forbidden?
And I know you probably didn't stick with this to the end, but that's not important either.
What is important is that when people complain that you can't talk about "those damn immigrants!" because of a vast conspiracy, they're just wrong. |
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"anytime the tory's win an election slight contradiction in terms since they get voted in?
no ... the question was 'what is your view of how it is starting?'
no...it was "how does a dictatorship start". Hardly by a democratic voting process."
Hitler was democratically elected, so were other dictators. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Either way you know that there is private communic---
I'm going to stop you there, because you've fixated on something inconsequential.
The conspiracy theory of "*Those people* are up to no good, and everyone knows it, but you can't say anything about *them* because then the liberals/feminists/marxists/reverse vampires will get you" is an old one and gets trotted out endlessly.
And like all conspiracy theories, it's self fulfilling. You don't see this "truth" anywhere with real journalism, so you seek out "alternative news" sites that reinforce the conspiracy that you know as the truth, and the reason you had to find out about it on some loons blog is that *they* are forbidding it from being spoken about. Which makes sense to you, why else aren't people talking about what you know to be true?
And of course it provides a cover for when you voice your theory in public and people do not respond well to it. Must be that liberal-Jew media what got to them, not that my ideas are repugnant dogshit.
Of course, like all conspiracy theories it's fundamentally ridiculous, which is why you ask basic questions about it to highlight how stupid it is.
Like how does information about this most forbidden topic get disseminated if nobody is allowed to even talk about it?
Or, if it's so forbidden how do we account for the unending torrent of resources and people willing and eager to spit venom about how immigrants are awful. There's a whole industry of people who make their bones by telling people who want to be scared of immigrants what they want to hear.
How is that possible if these ideas are utterly forbidden?
And I know you probably didn't stick with this to the end, but that's not important either.
What is important is that when people complain that you can't talk about "those damn immigrants!" because of a vast conspiracy, they're just wrong."
Classic djsyw
I haven't been to Malmo and I don't speak Swedish but I have heard from multiple sources including first hand from Swedish people that there is a huge and specific problem and that some areas are now patently unsafe.
As someone pro freedom of movement and very much against racism or nationalism and with a realistic view of the few spoiling it for the many in Muslim culture, I'm keeping an open mind.
As someone so aligned with the idea of "rape culture" perhaps you should too.
You appear to be dogmatic and guilty of "categorising"* your opinions.
*I'm reading a very good book on cognitive biases and you are displaying a categorised thinking where your views all fit in a neat little subset that only holds true in all cases in a idealised, unmessy world of your own simplification.
Have you been to Malmo recently and do you speak Swedish or what is the basis for your opinion? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Any actual examples/evidence of people in Sweden not being allowed to talk about certain issues?
"
No, there isnt, is is something everyone just know, but when they do they can get black listed and lose their job, for example, we had someone we knew that was a dentist, he got fired cos he said an afghanistan wasnt a "child" by examining his teeth, in sweden refuges can be a child in their 40s and 50s. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Any actual examples/evidence of people in Sweden not being allowed to talk about certain issues?
No, there isnt, is is something everyone just know, but when they do they can get black listed and lose their job, for example, we had someone we knew that was a dentist, he got fired cos he said an afghanistan wasnt a "child" by examining his teeth, in sweden refuges can be a child in their 40s and 50s."
And as well you are not allowed to talk about islam. |
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"Any actual examples/evidence of people in Sweden not being allowed to talk about certain issues?
No, there isnt, is is something everyone just know, but when they do they can get black listed and lose their job, for example, we had someone we knew that was a dentist, he got fired cos he said an afghanistan wasnt a "child" by examining his teeth, in sweden refuges can be a child in their 40s and 50s.And as well you are not allowed to talk about islam."
Having had a Google, it seems this dentist was fired for breaching patient confidentiality, not for merely reporting a refugees real age.
In fact, the Swedish government itself instituted dental checks for the age of refugees. Why would they do this and then fire someone simply for going along with it?
And I know you think you're not allowed to talk about Islam. But I'm asking for specific examples of someone being punished or censored for doing so?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Any actual examples/evidence of people in Sweden not being allowed to talk about certain issues?
No, there isnt, is is something everyone just know, but when they do they can get black listed and lose their job, for example, we had someone we knew that was a dentist, he got fired cos he said an afghanistan wasnt a "child" by examining his teeth, in sweden refuges can be a child in their 40s and 50s.And as well you are not allowed to talk about islam.
Having had a Google, it seems this dentist was fired for breaching patient confidentiality, not for merely reporting a refugees real age.
In fact, the Swedish government itself instituted dental checks for the age of refugees. Why would they do this and then fire someone simply for going along with it?
And I know you think you're not allowed to talk about Islam. But I'm asking for specific examples of someone being punished or censored for doing so?
"
I know, it doesnt make sense why they fired him, maibe we dont know all the background info of the refugee of what they found out. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Any actual examples/evidence of people in Sweden not being allowed to talk about certain issues?
No, there isnt, is is something everyone just know, but when they do they can get black listed and lose their job, for example, we had someone we knew that was a dentist, he got fired cos he said an afghanistan wasnt a "child" by examining his teeth, in sweden refuges can be a child in their 40s and 50s.And as well you are not allowed to talk about islam.
Having had a Google, it seems this dentist was fired for breaching patient confidentiality, not for merely reporting a refugees real age.
In fact, the Swedish government itself instituted dental checks for the age of refugees. Why would they do this and then fire someone simply for going along with it?
And I know you think you're not allowed to talk about Islam. But I'm asking for specific examples of someone being punished or censored for doing so?
I know, it doesnt make sense why they fired him, maibe we dont know all the background info of the refugee of what they found out."
By the way this dentist wasnt the one google. |
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Considering theres a far right anti immigration party on the rise in sweden (though still very small) I think the talk here of no free speech is way overblown.
The dentist story was twisted by far right anti immigration publications. They claim he was fired for reporting immigrant adults were posing as children and that the government were seizing his home (why theyd seize his home wasnt explained). The reality is that he was suspended for breaching doctor/patient confidentiality.
This is the problem with "alternative" news sources. Theyre highly unreliable, have no track record of honesty and will actually profit by ignoring the facts and playing to a bigoted niche group. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Any actual examples/evidence of people in Sweden not being allowed to talk about certain issues?
No, there isnt, is is something everyone just know, but when they do they can get black listed and lose their job, for example, we had someone we knew that was a dentist, he got fired cos he said an afghanistan wasnt a "child" by examining his teeth, in sweden refuges can be a child in their 40s and 50s.And as well you are not allowed to talk about islam."
And yet, here you are. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Either way you know that there is private communic---
I'm going to stop you there, because you've fixated on something inconsequential.
The conspiracy theory of "*Those people* are up to no good, and everyone knows it, but you can't say anything about *them* because then the liberals/feminists/marxists/reverse vampires will get you" is an old one and gets trotted out endlessly.
And like all conspiracy theories, it's self fulfilling. You don't see this "truth" anywhere with real journalism, so you seek out "alternative news" sites that reinforce the conspiracy that you know as the truth, and the reason you had to find out about it on some loons blog is that *they* are forbidding it from being spoken about. Which makes sense to you, why else aren't people talking about what you know to be true?
And of course it provides a cover for when you voice your theory in public and people do not respond well to it. Must be that liberal-Jew media what got to them, not that my ideas are repugnant dogshit.
Of course, like all conspiracy theories it's fundamentally ridiculous, which is why you ask basic questions about it to highlight how stupid it is.
Like how does information about this most forbidden topic get disseminated if nobody is allowed to even talk about it?
Or, if it's so forbidden how do we account for the unending torrent of resources and people willing and eager to spit venom about how immigrants are awful. There's a whole industry of people who make their bones by telling people who want to be scared of immigrants what they want to hear.
How is that possible if these ideas are utterly forbidden?
And I know you probably didn't stick with this to the end, but that's not important either.
What is important is that when people complain that you can't talk about "those damn immigrants!" because of a vast conspiracy, they're just wrong.
Classic djsyw
I haven't been to Malmo and I don't speak Swedish but I have heard from multiple sources including first hand from Swedish people that there is a huge and specific problem and that some areas are now patently unsafe.
As someone pro freedom of movement and very much against racism or nationalism and with a realistic view of the few spoiling it for the many in Muslim culture, I'm keeping an open mind.
As someone so aligned with the idea of "rape culture" perhaps you should too.
You appear to be dogmatic and guilty of "categorising"* your opinions.
*I'm reading a very good book on cognitive biases and you are displaying a categorised thinking where your views all fit in a neat little subset that only holds true in all cases in a idealised, unmessy world of your own simplification.
Have you been to Malmo recently and do you speak Swedish or what is the basis for your opinion? "
Once again fixated on entirely the wrong thing.
Doesn't really have a lot to do with the fiction that "you can't talk about immigrants " does it?
As for your book, you'll find that after skimming over something like at you'll spend a time just seeing it everywhere.
Don't worry, that will pass. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
It's funny how the existence of social media enabled the world to know about things happening in very repressive regimes with massive state censorship (eg: the Arab spring) and yet there is virtual media silence from Sweden.....
The Stasi must be very meticulous there...... |
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"It's funny how the existence of social media enabled the world to know about things happening in very repressive regimes with massive state censorship (eg: the Arab spring) and yet there is virtual media silence from Sweden.....
The Stasi must be very meticulous there......"
I think feminists must have literal super powers in Sweden. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As someone from a country with a dictatorship this is offensive. Are people being tortured, go missing, killed for their views? In the thousands?
If not then don't complain.
Sorry shag I know you mean well. It's hard to believe the press or opinions of others from other sources. The truth can be easily bent to satisfy your view or fears. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Back to your question, it is started when someone takes power by force. Usually the military, second in command etc. Did the Swedish government take it by force? |
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"As with any topics with sweden, we have to agree to disagree."
Your concept of "not allowed to talk" is a bit like Melanie Phillips's concept of being gagged by the BBC for her views when the woman is virtually a fixture on The Moral Maze and Question Time and had her own recent radio documentary. All on the BBC.
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I do not know Sweden, but it was fascinating when I spent some time in Estonia and Latvia recently to talk to people only in their forties, who had actually lived under a real repressive regime, as opposed to the easy hyperbole we tend to indulge in here when bickering between say Labour and Conservative viewpoints. And people who had not only lived under repression themselves but whose grandparents had suffered unbelievable persecution from both Nazi and Stalinist regimes. Strange to have those discussions in such familiar “western” surroundings with people sharing a common cultural heritage with ourselves. |
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