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NHS 2
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"Is this govt intent on screwing up an institution that this country is proud of?" Yes it is. It is trying to kill it through neglect and underfunding | |||
"Can we have a proper debate? "Yes the NHS chairman has basically said that in his suggestion that they make right on the slogan on the side of the bus | |||
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"So you closed the forum? It's obvious we can't have a propper debate if you close forums and run away to the safe space when challenged. Nhs is a mess because socialist systems are not practical in the real world... Only in Marxist fantasy..." You are an ideology driven idiot who parrots the memes of his heroes! All threads close when they reach 175 posts! | |||
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""Underfunding"? They get billions of pounds and spend it on assylum seekers, beurorats and usless people they cant get rid of once employed... ^^^^they need doctors/nurses/paramedics. Less receptionists and pathetic community jobs...middle managers and fuckers who don't know anything about " Forums automatically close when they are full at 175 Also your views on the nhs are madness either your deluded or on something I have never heard such rubbish | |||
"So you closed the forum? It's obvious we can't have a propper debate if you close forums and run away to the safe space when challenged. Nhs is a mess because socialist systems are not practical in the real world... Only in Marxist fantasy..." It's worked pretty well for 70 yrs.  | |||
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""Underfunding"? They get billions of pounds and spend it on assylum seekers, beurorats and usless people they cant get rid of once employed... ^^^^they need doctors/nurses/paramedics. Less receptionists and pathetic community jobs...middle managers and fuckers who don't know anything about medicine. " Yes, it's very much under funded, the Germans pay twice as much of their GDP on health as the UK. | |||
"So you closed the forum? It's obvious we can't have a propper debate if you close forums and run away to the safe space when challenged. Nhs is a mess because socialist systems are not practical in the real world... Only in Marxist fantasy..." Oh do shut up. All threads close when they reach the maximum number. And your boring rants re Marxism have no place in a Capitalist society! | |||
""Underfunding"? They get billions of pounds and spend it on assylum seekers, beurorats and usless people they cant get rid of once employed... ^^^^they need doctors/nurses/paramedics. Less receptionists and pathetic community jobs...middle managers and fuckers who don't know anything about medicine. " Wrong funding pot - asylum seekers aren't funded through the NHS. When are you going to spout something factual? Oh you did, you finally agree with me that we need more healthcare professionals. | |||
""Underfunding"? They get billions of pounds and spend it on assylum seekers, beurorats and usless people they cant get rid of once employed... ^^^^they need doctors/nurses/paramedics. Less receptionists and pathetic community jobs...middle managers and fuckers who don't know anything about medicine. Yes, it's very much under funded, the Germans pay twice as much of their GDP on health as the UK. " IMO the NHS should be a quango and funded through a percentage of the GDP agreed on by all parties. | |||
""Underfunding"? They get billions of pounds and spend it on assylum seekers, beurorats and usless people they cant get rid of once employed... ^^^^they need doctors/nurses/paramedics. Less receptionists and pathetic community jobs...middle managers and fuckers who don't know anything about medicine. Wrong funding pot - asylum seekers aren't funded through the NHS. When are you going to spout something factual? Oh you did, you finally agree with me that we need more healthcare professionals." To continue: Clinical managers are health professionals. Community healthcare professionals are very much needed. | |||
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"TAYSIDE NHS is in Crisis & meltdown THE DEBT-RIDDEN health board has presided over a 60 per cent surge in patients not being seen within the twelve week treatment time guarantee Certain Blood tests are no longer carried out, regardless if essential to health This is fact" Treatment time guarantees is, in my experience, a useless measuring stick. Why? I have witnessed "the norm" for an ED department - patients waiting and being nursed in corridors because the department is not large enough to cope with (a) the expanding population, (b) the living longer population, (c) expanding boundaries of its population due to closures of health facilities, (d) lack of beds cos of a,b, or c. The govt then fines the Trust which in real terms means less finances for the following financial year. Then we can discuss lack of staff. Is it because they cannot fund the staff? Actually no - we get staff from other countries because we don't have enough home grown staff. | |||
""Underfunding"? They get billions of pounds and spend it on assylum seekers, beurorats and usless people they cant get rid of once employed... ^^^^they need doctors/nurses/paramedics. Less receptionists and pathetic community jobs...middle managers and fuckers who don't know anything about medicine. " True. I was s nurse in the 80s and thatcher introduced extra managers that contributed nothing to medical treatment yet took big salaries. I complained about not having enough blankets (blankets ffs) and ended up in a bosses plush office.. Desk, expensive chairs, plush carpet and thought, 'this why theres no fucking blankets'. That was 1989 | |||
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"So you closed the forum? It's obvious we can't have a propper debate if you close forums and run away to the safe space when challenged. Nhs is a mess because socialist systems are not practical in the real world... Only in Marxist fantasy... It's worked pretty well for 70 yrs. "Despite attempts by the tory shitbags too, though theyre doing a good job of destroying it now. | |||
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"Is this govt intent on screwing up an institution that this country is proud of?" Difficult to know if it's conspiracy or incompetence. Probably a combination. There has always been a vein of "free-market" thinking along the lines of rail with a hybrid form of privatisation where the state pays companies to run services. The logic of this process being somehow more efficient if a profit is being taken off the top eludes me. However, as an institution, the NHS is politically set in the national psyche so to make the possibility attractive it has to be performing pretty badly. On the flip side it is also a big black hole to pour money down. If more was spent on prevention then perhaps we'd get somewhere... | |||
"TAYSIDE NHS is in Crisis & meltdown THE DEBT-RIDDEN health board has presided over a 60 per cent surge in patients not being seen within the twelve week treatment time guarantee Certain Blood tests are no longer carried out, regardless if essential to health This is fact" You are being "being negative" and "running the country down"? No problem is too big that you can't hide it beneath your national flag 
Perhaps we can get rid of it and only treat rich people with medical insurance? Everyone else can put up with crappy working conditions so that they can maintain health cover for themselves and their families like your hero Trump wants  | |||
"Is this govt intent on screwing up an institution that this country is proud of?" News flash... It is not screwing, it has screwed. When the Tories took charge in 2010 the NHS across the board had an annual surplus of between 2 and 5 billion depending on how you measure it that was being invested in capital projects and covered unforeseen emergencies. Now the NHS has an annual deficit of between 1.5 and 5 billion depending on which figures you take. | |||
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"TAYSIDE NHS is in Crisis & meltdown THE DEBT-RIDDEN health board has presided over a 60 per cent surge in patients not being seen within the twelve week treatment time guarantee Certain Blood tests are no longer carried out, regardless if essential to health This is fact Treatment time guarantees is, in my experience, a useless measuring stick. Why? I have witnessed "the norm" for an ED department - patients waiting and being nursed in corridors because the department is not large enough to cope with (a) the expanding population, (b) the living longer population, (c) expanding boundaries of its population due to closures of health facilities, (d) lack of beds cos of a,b, or c. The govt then fines the Trust which in real terms means less finances for the following financial year. Then we can discuss lack of staff. Is it because they cannot fund the staff? Actually no - we get staff from other countries because we don't have enough home grown staff. " You missed out crowds of idiots flooding the AnE departments with colds, coughs, small splinters, bruised toe etc. I have been to my AnE once in the last 20 yrs...with a broken elbow from an accident. The above are real examples of people there when I attended. It’s called ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY for a reason! Not for lame brains who can’t be bothered to get some night nurse from the pharmacist. | |||
"You missed out crowds of idiots flooding the AnE departments with colds, coughs, small splinters, bruised toe etc. I have been to my AnE once in the last 20 yrs...with a broken elbow from an accident. The above are real examples of people there when I attended. It’s called ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY for a reason! Not for lame brains who can’t be bothered to get some night nurse from the pharmacist." Funny how often I hear this cry whenever anyone mentions how the NHS is being run down ad dismantled. I have a quick and rather simple question for you: Do you think that the reduction in the number of beds from 480,000 in 1979 to 142,000 in 2017 with a similar of over 2/3 capacity in A&E beds while our ageing population has grown by nearly 20% could have anything to do with the chronic shortage of beds and the exponential growth in waiting times in A&E in the NHS? | |||
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"The NHS is a national treasure." The government agree....they are trying to bury it! | |||
""Underfunding"? They get billions of pounds and spend it on assylum seekers, beurorats and usless people they cant get rid of once employed... ^^^^they need doctors/nurses/paramedics. Less receptionists and pathetic community jobs...middle managers and fuckers who don't know anything about medicine. Yes, it's very much under funded, the Germans pay twice as much of their GDP on health as the UK. " You mean on the German NHS? | |||
"I have used both NHS and Private over the decades In the 80's my life was saved by NHS after a serious bike accident, my heart also stopped on operating table. Due to what they done in the 80's it is difficult to criticize but I have also been on the end of serious incompetence with regards to both A&E doctors & radiologists who were unable to diagnose fractures to my spine!!!!!!! Luckily I also had medical Insurance and went private the day I was discharged. Immediate MRI scans showed fractures to T7 & T8 as well as fractured ribs this is only one example of a few times I have been in A&E and NHS have failed to correctly diagnose. Similar things have also happened to family and friends over the decades. I have zero trust in NHS and luckily enough my past earnings allow private medical treatment which I will continue to use until competence is established in NHS" I sort of agree with you but also take issue with you too... There is good and bad in everything, some NHS hospital departments are the best in the world, others are clearly incompetent, some doctors are first class others clearly should not have a licence to practice medicine. And while it is true that private medical practice is generally faster and more convenient for patients the fact is there is also incompetence in private medicine (remember the breast implant scandal of a few years back), and private practice does not do emergency medicine. When things go wrong in private hospitals the patient is immediately transferred to the NHS, in fact may private hospitals are now built in the grounds of NHS hospitals with direct access to the NHS hospital so when things go wrong there can be a seamless transfer of care from private to NHS. | |||
"I have used both NHS and Private over the decades In the 80's my life was saved by NHS after a serious bike accident, my heart also stopped on operating table. Due to what they done in the 80's it is difficult to criticize but I have also been on the end of serious incompetence with regards to both A&E doctors & radiologists who were unable to diagnose fractures to my spine!!!!!!! Luckily I also had medical Insurance and went private the day I was discharged. Immediate MRI scans showed fractures to T7 & T8 as well as fractured ribs this is only one example of a few times I have been in A&E and NHS have failed to correctly diagnose. Similar things have also happened to family and friends over the decades. I have zero trust in NHS and luckily enough my past earnings allow private medical treatment which I will continue to use until competence is established in NHS I sort of agree with you but also take issue with you too... There is good and bad in everything, some NHS hospital departments are the best in the world, others are clearly incompetent, some doctors are first class others clearly should not have a licence to practice medicine. And while it is true that private medical practice is generally faster and more convenient for patients the fact is there is also incompetence in private medicine (remember the breast implant scandal of a few years back), and private practice does not do emergency medicine. When things go wrong in private hospitals the patient is immediately transferred to the NHS, in fact may private hospitals are now built in the grounds of NHS hospitals with direct access to the NHS hospital so when things go wrong there can be a seamless transfer of care from private to NHS. " Yes I agree with that and you will find the majority of Surgeons are both NHS and private (NHS being their "day Job" . However there is huge incompetence, take for example myself, serious accident within forestry location, unconscious, and on coming too, severe back pain, air ambulance cannot land (forestry), Fire brigade were on call at roadside but did not walk into forestry two totally overweight female ambulance crew arrives on scene and forces me up to walk to ambulance!!!! this was with two fractures to my spine!!! total incompetence, fire service should have been down there with spinal board. . As in a previous post, NHS have stopped checking certain Bloods, due to costs, these blood tests could identify various illness but they have been told to no longer check. . Some NHS staff are committed, others should be committed (to mental hospital) fact is, not many really give a flying fuck any more, it is up to every individual to look after their own health, do not take the word of a doctor or surgeon as the full truth without searching the facts yourself. If you watched the news at lunch time you will hear praise of NHS staff and how we are the best or one of the best in the World, yet all non essential operations are cancelled for whole of this month. Westminster should hold its head in shame, actually we all should, as we are sitting back and letting them do it, there should be protests on every street in every town. that's my rant for the day. | |||
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"it is up to every individual to look after their own health, do not take the word of a doctor or surgeon as the full truth without searching the facts yourself. " Seeing as you're not in any way qualified to assess these matters, that seems like a self indulgent waste of time. | |||
"I have used both NHS and Private over the decades In the 80's my life was saved by NHS after a serious bike accident, my heart also stopped on operating table. Due to what they done in the 80's it is difficult to criticize but I have also been on the end of serious incompetence with regards to both A&E doctors & radiologists who were unable to diagnose fractures to my spine!!!!!!! Luckily I also had medical Insurance and went private the day I was discharged. Immediate MRI scans showed fractures to T7 & T8 as well as fractured ribs this is only one example of a few times I have been in A&E and NHS have failed to correctly diagnose. Similar things have also happened to family and friends over the decades. I have zero trust in NHS and luckily enough my past earnings allow private medical treatment which I will continue to use until competence is established in NHS I sort of agree with you but also take issue with you too... There is good and bad in everything, some NHS hospital departments are the best in the world, others are clearly incompetent, some doctors are first class others clearly should not have a licence to practice medicine. And while it is true that private medical practice is generally faster and more convenient for patients the fact is there is also incompetence in private medicine (remember the breast implant scandal of a few years back), and private practice does not do emergency medicine. When things go wrong in private hospitals the patient is immediately transferred to the NHS, in fact may private hospitals are now built in the grounds of NHS hospitals with direct access to the NHS hospital so when things go wrong there can be a seamless transfer of care from private to NHS. Yes I agree with that and you will find the majority of Surgeons are both NHS and private (NHS being their "day Job" . However there is huge incompetence, take for example myself, serious accident within forestry location, unconscious, and on coming too, severe back pain, air ambulance cannot land (forestry), Fire brigade were on call at roadside but did not walk into forestry two totally overweight female ambulance crew arrives on scene and forces me up to walk to ambulance!!!! this was with two fractures to my spine!!! total incompetence, fire service should have been down there with spinal board. . As in a previous post, NHS have stopped checking certain Bloods, due to costs, these blood tests could identify various illness but they have been told to no longer check. . Some NHS staff are committed, others should be committed (to mental hospital) fact is, not many really give a flying fuck any more, it is up to every individual to look after their own health, do not take the word of a doctor or surgeon as the full truth without searching the facts yourself. If you watched the news at lunch time you will hear praise of NHS staff and how we are the best or one of the best in the World, yet all non essential operations are cancelled for whole of this month. Westminster should hold its head in shame, actually we all should, as we are sitting back and letting them do it, there should be protests on every street in every town. that's my rant for the day." Any extrication or cas evacuation by the Fire service is done at the request and under the instruction/guidance of the attending Ambo crews.. recognise your frustration but singling them out for only acting as per ops policies is maybe not necessary.. | |||
"it is up to every individual to look after their own health " Yes they should, especially smokers as they cost nhs a fortune as they spend millions to try and help them. | |||
"TAYSIDE NHS is in Crisis & meltdown THE DEBT-RIDDEN health board has presided over a 60 per cent surge in patients not being seen within the twelve week treatment time guarantee Certain Blood tests are no longer carried out, regardless if essential to health This is fact Treatment time guarantees is, in my experience, a useless measuring stick. Why? I have witnessed "the norm" for an ED department - patients waiting and being nursed in corridors because the department is not large enough to cope with (a) the expanding population, (b) the living longer population, (c) expanding boundaries of its population due to closures of health facilities, (d) lack of beds cos of a,b, or c. The govt then fines the Trust which in real terms means less finances for the following financial year. Then we can discuss lack of staff. Is it because they cannot fund the staff? Actually no - we get staff from other countries because we don't have enough home grown staff. You missed out crowds of idiots flooding the AnE departments with colds, coughs, small splinters, bruised toe etc. I have been to my AnE once in the last 20 yrs...with a broken elbow from an accident. The above are real examples of people there when I attended. It’s called ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY for a reason! Not for lame brains who can’t be bothered to get some night nurse from the pharmacist." Don't forget those who cannot be bothered to register with a doctor. | |||
"Is this govt intent on screwing up an institution that this country is proud of? Yes it is. It is trying to kill it through neglect and underfunding" ..
Tory ideology in action, privatisation tactics in action too, pfi is the tory weapon of choice | |||
"time to increase income tax and ring-fence the increase as NHS budget" This, plus look at the systems in germany, Australia etc. Efficiently and more effective in where and how tje money is spent | |||
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""Underfunding"? They get billions of pounds and spend it on assylum seekers, beurorats and usless people they cant get rid of once employed... ^^^^they need doctors/nurses/paramedics. Less receptionists and pathetic community jobs...middle managers and fuckers who don't know anything about medicine. " Just about sums it up  | |||
""Underfunding"? They get billions of pounds and spend it on assylum seekers, beurorats and usless people they cant get rid of once employed... ^^^^they need doctors/nurses/paramedics. Less receptionists and pathetic community jobs...middle managers and fuckers who don't know anything about medicine. Just about sums it up "Thought you were talking about "Over sea's Aid" for a second - £14 billion a year, beurocrats, middle managers, corruption etc | |||
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""Underfunding"? They get billions of pounds and spend it on assylum seekers, beurorats and usless people they cant get rid of once employed... ^^^^they need doctors/nurses/paramedics. Less receptionists and pathetic community jobs...middle managers and fuckers who don't know anything about medicine. Just about sums it up
Thought you were talking about "Over sea's Aid" for a second - £14 billion a year, beurocrats, middle managers, corruption etc"I thought you were talking about the Barnett Formula for a second! But that's a £57bn a year waste. | |||
"it is up to every individual to look after their own health Yes they should, especially smokers as they cost nhs a fortune as they spend millions to try and help them." I used to think the same way but read something a while back that changed my mind. By taking into account taxes paid on cigarettes, the cost of smoking related illnesses to the NHS and the fact that smokers tend to die earlier and therefore don't take as much in terms of pensions and other benefits they are actually less of a financial drain than non smokers (who tend to live longer and these days are potentially suffering from long, late in life illnesses). Never looked into it in any detail though. I should point out as well that I'm a non smoker and pretty anti-smoking. | |||
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"Healthy people are the biggest cost to the NHS they live far too long.You might think it's the smokers and the obese that suck up the funds they die young.Its those that live long lives and end up needing 24hr care due to dementia and other diseases related to old age that burden the NHS." You have a point! | |||
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"Sadly, the older sick people are either culled, one way or another, in hospital or sent to care/nursing homes which are not funded by the NHS. They are much less likely to seek help for minor medical problems either. " I'm sure I've read dementia is a huge problem and the leading cause of death in the elderly.Hence the Tory proposal of a dementia tax.We have an increase in dementia because the oaps are living so long.Our ageing population is financially unsustainable. | |||
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"When something is seen as free then it will be abused, have the arse kicked out of it by some to the detriment of others.. Sadly that's human nature.. Maybe we need a system like others have where means tested insurance for want of a better word is a way forward? Politicians are forever ducking the choices we all make as regards what can be afforded cos they are not popular or so they are told. " The problem with means testing is that the cost of implementing it is often greater than any savings it generates. At a certain point, systems that give things away will have an amount of fraud, and we just have to live with that. | |||
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"Nothing about "fraud exists" implies that people will be blasé about it. But rather that any attempt to combat it should be aware that zero fraud is impossible, and any measures ought to be judged on their cost effectiveness rather than a zeal to root out "fraud". " . I agree most things are impossible to get to zero, but just like racism and hate crime are low and will never be zero but you still have to apply stern laws to those that break it | |||
"Dementia care worldwide is a lottery and in the UK, as in most developed countries, dementia patients are farmed out to homes or made to stay with relations until it is unsustainable. They are very rarely kept in hospitals. Treatment of dementia patients is generally pretty poor in the wider NHS. Cancer patients cost much, much more. " Why should patients with dementia be kept in hospitals? | |||
"When something is seen as free then it will be abused, have the arse kicked out of it by some to the detriment of others.. Sadly that's human nature.. Maybe we need a system like others have where means tested insurance for want of a better word is a way forward? Politicians are forever ducking the choices we all make as regards what can be afforded cos they are not popular or so they are told. The problem with means testing is that the cost of implementing it is often greater than any savings it generates. At a certain point, systems that give things away will have an amount of fraud, and we just have to live with that." if its beyond us to implement a system based on a level of declared earnings then we are in a sorry state.. | |||
"Dementia care worldwide is a lottery and in the UK, as in most developed countries, dementia patients are farmed out to homes or made to stay with relations until it is unsustainable. They are very rarely kept in hospitals. Treatment of dementia patients is generally pretty poor in the wider NHS. Cancer patients cost much, much more. Why should patients with dementia be kept in hospitals?" They absolutely should not be but the NHS does not pay for their care once in homes | |||
"Sadly, the older sick people are either culled, one way or another, in hospital or sent to care/nursing homes which are not funded by the NHS. They are much less likely to seek help for minor medical problems either. " Yep... And, I am rapidly approaching the age (if not there already) where I am culling fodder... | |||
"Sadly, the older sick people are either culled, one way or another, in hospital or sent to care/nursing homes which are not funded by the NHS. They are much less likely to seek help for minor medical problems either. " This isn't actually a "problem" for the NHS. The main problem is that elderly people still have multiple, complex but treatable conditions that cost money. Also when someone who could look after themselves requires hospital care they often cannot be released but need ongoing care. However, until a care bed is available they take up a space in a hospital, hence generating delays for the next set of patients. This means that routine procedures are delayed until they become critical, and consequently more expensive to treat. Etc, etc, etc... | |||
"Dementia care worldwide is a lottery and in the UK, as in most developed countries, dementia patients are farmed out to homes or made to stay with relations until it is unsustainable. They are very rarely kept in hospitals. Treatment of dementia patients is generally pretty poor in the wider NHS. Cancer patients cost much, much more. Why should patients with dementia be kept in hospitals? They absolutely should not be but the NHS does not pay for their care once in homes" If a person qualifies for nursing care then they will receive partial to full funding in nursing homes. | |||
"Sadly, the older sick people are either culled, one way or another, in hospital or sent to care/nursing homes which are not funded by the NHS. They are much less likely to seek help for minor medical problems either. This isn't actually a "problem" for the NHS. The main problem is that elderly people still have multiple, complex but treatable conditions that cost money. Also when someone who could look after themselves requires hospital care they often cannot be released but need ongoing care. However, until a care bed is available they take up a space in a hospital, hence generating delays for the next set of patients. This means that routine procedures are delayed until they become critical, and consequently more expensive to treat. Etc, etc, etc..." Is it just elderly that are the problem? what about kids? children also become sick and cannot look after themselves at home, the elderly/pensioners still pay TAX and most have paid into the system for much longer than us!!!! don't you think the government saying "the elderly is the problem" is simply just a smoke screen to cover up their decades of incompetence | |||
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"Sadly, the older sick people are either culled, one way or another, in hospital or sent to care/nursing homes which are not funded by the NHS. They are much less likely to seek help for minor medical problems either. This isn't actually a "problem" for the NHS. The main problem is that elderly people still have multiple, complex but treatable conditions that cost money. Also when someone who could look after themselves requires hospital care they often cannot be released but need ongoing care. However, until a care bed is available they take up a space in a hospital, hence generating delays for the next set of patients. This means that routine procedures are delayed until they become critical, and consequently more expensive to treat. Etc, etc, etc... Is it just elderly that are the problem? what about kids? children also become sick and cannot look after themselves at home, the elderly/pensioners still pay TAX and most have paid into the system for much longer than us!!!! don't you think the government saying "the elderly is the problem" is simply just a smoke screen to cover up their decades of incompetence " Spot on couldent agree more | |||
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"Care home costs are only supplemented if the patient is there because of medical matters and dementia per se does not qualify for NHS funding. Many hospitals shunt out dementia patients to holding buildings until care home beds are available. Those who can't afford them or who don't have relatives motivated to find or fund, stay there, in a living hell. These people contributed more than anyone to funding the NHS yet they are pariahs, the reason the NHS is failing and using beds up that other more deserving cases could use.... Really? " I'm not sure why you're so critical of the NHS. In the early to mid stages patients with dementia need help with the activities of daily living. This means it's self or social funding, not health. When it gets beyond that and healthcare is required, then funding occurs. | |||
"If you are under NHS you "may" get an xray . if you have private medical insurance the first investigation is normally MRI scan and usually at same time as your first consultation . would you prefer private health insurance or "the latest mobile phone" or perhaps sky tv, depends how much you value your life!!!! all are about the same cost" You're essentially proposing the equivalent of a tax of about £25 month. If that was actually raised on every adult by government that would be about £8bn a year. That would help the NHS. It isn't a tax though. Not everyone can afford it. Very few of your generation needed to pay it when you were younger, but because of the demographic bulge, there is now far more pressure on the system. Nobody's fault but essentially your proposition is that younger generations should contribute a higher proportion of their incomes to support a generation that has benefited far more than any other. That's not a personal criticism but it is an attitude I see from your generation. "Why don't you just..." | |||
"Care home costs are only supplemented if the patient is there because of medical matters and dementia per se does not qualify for NHS funding. Many hospitals shunt out dementia patients to holding buildings until care home beds are available. Those who can't afford them or who don't have relatives motivated to find or fund, stay there, in a living hell. These people contributed more than anyone to funding the NHS yet they are pariahs, the reason the NHS is failing and using beds up that other more deserving cases could use.... Really? " Absolutely right, it is so much more important that the top 1% get to transfer billions a year out of the country and multinational corporations get to trade in the UK without paying a single penny in tax than we properly fund our health and social services at their expense. After all trickle down has worked that well for the last 40 years. Or is that flood out has worked that well for the rich and powerful that the rest need to starve and die so they can hide money they will never spend on islands they never visit? | |||
" I'm not sure why you're so critical of the NHS. In the early to mid stages patients with dementia need help with the activities of daily living. This means it's self or social funding, not health. When it gets beyond that and healthcare is required, then funding occurs. " Funding doesn't usually kick in for dementia patients. However , I'm not being critical of the NHS, just referencing it to the oft bandied about idea that elderly people are an unnecessary drain on the NHS. | |||
" I'm not sure why you're so critical of the NHS. In the early to mid stages patients with dementia need help with the activities of daily living. This means it's self or social funding, not health. When it gets beyond that and healthcare is required, then funding occurs. Funding doesn't usually kick in for dementia patients. However , I'm not being critical of the NHS, just referencing it to the oft bandied about idea that elderly people are an unnecessary drain on the NHS." Ok, but what evidence do you have re funding? | |||
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"I believe the scumbag tories are proposing to rob banks and building societies of the inactive accounts to fund some of the social care...fucking typical of them...yet they can find over a billion pounds to prop up there lousy government "And the government can afford £7.6m to do up the family home of Jacob Rees Mogg's wife. | |||
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"Isn't it strange, when dementia patients (note the word patients) were cared for by the NHS and the NHS was run as a single service there were always beds (nearly 500,000 of them). But then along came Thatcherism and monitarism and market economies. And we got the NHS 'internal market' and 'hospital trusts' and 'primary health care trusts' and 'ambulance trusts' and things got worse. So to fix that the 'trusts' were given their own budgets to manage and what did that do? it further reduced the efficiency of scale and ability of the NHS to use that scale to force the pharmaceutical industry to give the largest single buyer of medicines in the world discount on its bulk buying. So now we see the result of turning a service into a market. Drug prices through the roof. No beds in private care for dementia patients (there is no profit in caring for those who need 24 supervision), so what should be acute beds and surgery recovery beds are being used for the care of long term dementia patients, and those who should be in those beds are lying on trolleys in corridors or dying in ambulances because A&E departments are full and cant admit them. How bad does it have to get before people wake up and realise the problem is services are not businesses and can not be run or partially run 'for profit' without the service being damaged, and the more of the service that is run as a for profit business the more damage is done and will be done."
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"There is nothing wrong with the NHS - a family member had an abalation op just before Xmas - didn't work and had a pacemaker fitted on 27th - 5 days between 2 ops! Brilliant - catch is done in NHS hospitals but private. If you can pay you can get the service! " If you pay for a private consultant should you be in a NHS bed.Isnt that taking the piss. shouldn't you be in a private hospital.? | |||
"If you pay for a private consultant should you be in a NHS bed.Isnt that taking the piss. shouldn't you be in a private hospital.?" Bob until the very early 70's and BUPA if you were a private patient you had all your treatment in NHS hospitals and took your turn in the queue just like everyone else. Only difference was you got to choose your consultant (you paid for them) and you got a private bed in a side ward (you paid for it) and a choice of food (you paid for that too) and most importantly when your turn came up you got to choose when and where you had your treatment rather than being told when where and who would be treating you. But the biggest difference was that the consultants used NHS theatres and theatre staff who the NHS were paid for. Therefore prior to BUPA private hospitals being a private patient meant you were subsidising the NHS for special treatment while an NHS patient. | |||
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"Just had a look at some figures on the BBC, our spending on the NHS has almost doubled since 2000 (up from £73bn to £140bn). That can't be sustainable and some hard decisions will need to be made at some point." On average money halves in value every 10 years... So by those figures spending on the NHS has nearly halved in real terms.  | |||
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"Just had a look at some figures on the BBC, our spending on the NHS has almost doubled since 2000 (up from £73bn to £140bn). That can't be sustainable and some hard decisions will need to be made at some point." In real terms, funding has been cut by this government. The hard decisions are about understanding that alternatives are worse. The conservatives promised no reorganisation before the 2010 election but then spent hundreds of millions of pounds on doing just that. This government will use smoke and mirrors, whilst not investing appropriately - and then pretending they are surprised there's a crisis. | |||
"In real terms, funding has been cut by this government. The hard decisions are about understanding that alternatives are worse. The conservatives promised no reorganisation before the 2010 election but then spent hundreds of millions of pounds on doing just that. This government will use smoke and mirrors, whilst not investing appropriately - and then pretending they are surprised there's a crisis." Hunt, the cunt in charge has spent the last 7 and 2/3 years putting into practice the plans he wrote about before becoming Secretary of State for Health. Those plans are really simple they are designed to force the UK to adopt a US type health system where medical care is not a right but a spending choice because medicine is not a public service but a for profit private enterprise. He has been very good at implementing those plans and rather than punishing the Tories for their obvious deliberate destruction of our welfare state which includes the NHS they were re elected in 2015 and again last year. Truth is, we deserve what we get... We keep electing these shits and they keep shitting on us and we deserve it. | |||
"In real terms, funding has been cut by this government. The hard decisions are about understanding that alternatives are worse. The conservatives promised no reorganisation before the 2010 election but then spent hundreds of millions of pounds on doing just that. This government will use smoke and mirrors, whilst not investing appropriately - and then pretending they are surprised there's a crisis. Hunt, the cunt in charge has spent the last 7 and 2/3 years putting into practice the plans he wrote about before becoming Secretary of State for Health. Those plans are really simple they are designed to force the UK to adopt a US type health system where medical care is not a right but a spending choice because medicine is not a public service but a for profit private enterprise. He has been very good at implementing those plans and rather than punishing the Tories for their obvious deliberate destruction of our welfare state which includes the NHS they were re elected in 2015 and again last year. Truth is, we deserve what we get... We keep electing these shits and they keep shitting on us and we deserve it." | |||
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"The NHS is not all free. You pay for dentistry, eyes and prescriptions for starters " Wrong prescriptions are free in Scotland those people that moan about free prescriptions in Scotland i dont see them saying oh no i dont agree with that then handing over there money lol | |||
"I see Anna Milton might replace Jermey Hunt as Health Secretary whats that i hear you all jumping for joy that one Tory is replacing another and finally getting rid of that prick Hunt yeah well one is bad as the other Now dig abit deeper into Anna Milton and oh would you look here lol she just happens to be married to the director of VirginCare Wake up England before its too late and your NHS is gone and private companies trying to make money of the NHS " Did you expect May to appoint someone from another party
Pray tell oh wise one how should we react if we don't vote tory?
And yes I know it's creeping privatisation.. | |||
"I see Anna Milton might replace Jermey Hunt as Health Secretary whats that i hear you all jumping for joy that one Tory is replacing another and finally getting rid of that prick Hunt yeah well one is bad as the other Now dig abit deeper into Anna Milton and oh would you look here lol she just happens to be married to the director of VirginCare Wake up England before its too late and your NHS is gone and private companies trying to make money of the NHS Did you expect May to appoint someone from another party
Pray tell oh wise one how should we react if we don't vote tory?
And yes I know it's creeping privatisation.. "She should hire Dr House, he's great. | |||
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"The NHS is not all free. You pay for dentistry, eyes and prescriptions for starters Wrong prescriptions are free in Scotland those people that moan about free prescriptions in Scotland i dont see them saying oh no i dont agree with that then handing over there money lol " I was generalising for the sake of the thread. Dental and eye examinations are also free in Scotland. Prescriptions are free in Wales too. | |||
"The NHS is not all free. You pay for dentistry, eyes and prescriptions for starters Wrong prescriptions are free in Scotland those people that moan about free prescriptions in Scotland i dont see them saying oh no i dont agree with that then handing over there money lol I was generalising for the sake of the thread. Dental and eye examinations are also free in Scotland. Prescriptions are free in Wales too. " They are free at the point of delivery. Someone somewhere still pays. | |||
""Underfunding"? They get billions of pounds and spend it on assylum seekers, beurorats and usless people they cant get rid of once employed... ^^^^they need doctors/nurses/paramedics. Less receptionists and pathetic community jobs...middle managers and fuckers who don't know anything about medicine. Yes, it's very much under funded, the Germans pay twice as much of their GDP on health as the UK. " But other developed countries pay less of their GDP than us but don't have winter health crises and do have better patient outcomes. Better finding may help but it's not a full solution to the NHS problem on its own. | |||
""Underfunding"? They get billions of pounds and spend it on assylum seekers, beurorats and usless people they cant get rid of once employed... ^^^^they need doctors/nurses/paramedics. Less receptionists and pathetic community jobs...middle managers and fuckers who don't know anything about medicine. Yes, it's very much under funded, the Germans pay twice as much of their GDP on health as the UK. IMO the NHS should be a quango and funded through a percentage of the GDP agreed on by all parties." I think there's merit in such an approach but it probably would have lead to real cuts in actual money spent in £'s to the NHS budget between 2008 and now, and further cuts into the future when/if GDP falls as a result of BREXIT. | |||
"Can we have a proper debate? "Having read the thread fully so far I'd say no, we can't have a proper debate on the NHS. While people continue to use the NHS as a political stick to beat their political opponens, rather than try and find genuine solutions which could possibly have cross party support, there is no chance of having a proper debate. | |||
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"See how the NHS or very short of staff just hearing on the news thanks to those who voted for Brexit which is not helping at all. " Shortage of nurses is historical. Removal of bursary will make matters far worse. | |||
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"Have read now that Ambulance drivers from EU countries now leaving because of Brexit. " EU nurses resgistering in the UK is down 96% | |||
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"the NHS is facing a perfect storm over the next 18 months. I expect that many highly qualified doctors, nurses and paramedic EU citizens, who have beet trained in Europe and therefore are familiar with the European illnesses working in the NHS will leave. Of course we will need to replace them so will be back to recruiting from Africa, the Indian Subcontinent and South East Asia. Places where regardless of their level of competence or of their training they will have trained in tropical medicine and many (outside the Indian subcontinent will have very little English and will therefore be more of a burden than a boon. Of course when that is added to the real cuts in the NHS funding by the government while been seen to be giving large funding increases will I fear do for the old girl. And before any of our pro Tory posters start quoting NHS funding figures to prove me wrong, remember the NHS does not live in its own bubble. It is not just an integral part of our social care, it is the ultimate safety net. Therefore when local government social care is cut that cost gets transferred to the NHS. And when the cost of fielding those local government cuts is offset against any increases in funding it quickly becomes clear that NHS spending has been cut annually by the Tory government of the last nearly 8 years. " All student nurses and foreign nurses have to have a minimum level of literacy and numeracy. | |||
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"Damn darkies can't do proper good honest English medicine. Apparently." Your account has been hacked by Farage mate. Change your password asap !!! | |||
"Damn darkies can't do proper good honest English medicine. Apparently. Your account has been hacked by Farage mate. Change your password asap !!!" Nonsense. Now excuse me while I complain about nasty foreigners coming to glorious England and not learning proper English like what the queen speaks. | |||
"Damn darkies can't do proper good honest English medicine. Apparently." You really missed my point. There are approximately 7000 undergraduate medical school places in the UK. There are 2 schools of tropical medicine, neither of which offers undergraduate courses. Therefore no British trained doctor is equipped to practice medicine in Africa or the tropics without first returning to study at a postgraduate level. If that is the case here then it follows that the reverse will be the case in tropical and sub tropical parts of the world. Further the flow of trained professionals is for the most part from poorer to richer countries, therefore it is highly improbable that medical staff shortfalls will be filled from more affluent countries, and it is clear to anyone who looks dispassionately at the evidence that the poorer a country is the less they can invest in education and therefore the poorer the training in any discipline will be. Therefore in a critical discipline like medicine the cuts will be made first in teaching the diagnosis and treatment of fist would ailments in favour of training in the local ailments. But hey, you keep looking to turn a valid point into a race issue. | |||
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"What valid point? You're spinning a yarn based on conjecture and your own prejudices and expecting to have that respected. Good luck with that." Well in that case I guess you need to contact the British Medical Association, Royal Collage of Nurses and Royal Collage of Physicians and impart your wisdom to them. Because the yarn I am spinning comes from what I have read of studies done by them to understand the problems faced medical professionals moving to the UK from Africa and Asia. They identified 2 critical areas, language (which resulted in the basic spoken English and literacy and numeracy tests that have to be passed as well as proving medical competence by all non British medical staff entering the NHS. My worry is that as staffing levels drop to a critical point those standards will be lowered costing lives in order to cover up the true extent of the damage this government has done to the NHS. | |||
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"And based on something you've read and evidently not really understood, you've extrapolated out a scenario of your own devising and are trying to assert legitimacy by referring back to what gave you the idea in the first place. That's not very compelling." Actually I understood it completely and so did the government and GMC. The reason that I can say that with so much certainty is because both changed the rules governing the employment of non British trained medics and since then the incidents of medical mistakes due to language problems and lack of training in first world medicine have been virtually eliminated. Now I understand that you are a militant anti racist and see everything in terms of white privilege and unwarranted discrimination against non WASPS. But the truth is not all opinions that seem to discriminate against people from different areas of the world are driven by a belief in white supremacy. Maybe you would do better if you spent a little more time in critical examination of issues without superimposing your bias on the issue at hand. | |||
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"Apparently people who have become doctors are incapable of learning new things. Who would have known? " Far from it, but just because you qualify as a doctor in one part of the world does not make you competent to practice medicine all over the world. Further if you do move to a part of the world where you are to competent there is a need for retraining but in a time of critical need there is a tendency in all disciplines not just medicine to cut corners and take chances. That you fail to give credence to this says more about you than me. | |||
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"Apparently people who have become doctors are incapable of learning new things. Who would have known? Far from it, but just because you qualify as a doctor in one part of the world does not make you competent to practice medicine all over the world. Further if you do move to a part of the world where you are to competent there is a need for retraining but in a time of critical need there is a tendency in all disciplines not just medicine to cut corners and take chances. That you fail to give credence to this says more about you than me." Yes, you're right. It does rather neatly demonstrate that of the two of us, you're the only one trying to justify a flight of fancy. | |||
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"Statistic released today... 10% of the nursing profession have quit in the last 12 months..." ..........What are the stats for the last 10 years...so we can compare. | |||
"Statistic released today... 10% of the nursing profession have quit in the last 12 months.............What are the stats for the last 10 years...so we can compare." I believe that should say have quit the NHS. Provided they keep their registration, they can work in private practice, or work overseas. | |||
"Just thankful I have Private Medical Cover, never trusted the NHS, they have been negligent on more than one occasion with myself, and also with others I know. I will happily pay for private cover." Negligent suggests that it wasn't intentional | |||
"Just thankful I have Private Medical Cover, never trusted the NHS, they have been negligent on more than one occasion with myself, and also with others I know. I will happily pay for private cover. Negligent suggests that it wasn't intentional "I would say lack of competence and possibly lack of training during busy workloads in some cases | |||
"Just thankful I have Private Medical Cover, never trusted the NHS, they have been negligent on more than one occasion with myself, and also with others I know. I will happily pay for private cover. Negligent suggests that it wasn't intentional
I would say lack of competence and possibly lack of training during busy workloads in some cases"Maybe they just didn't like you. | |||
"Just thankful I have Private Medical Cover, never trusted the NHS, they have been negligent on more than one occasion with myself, and also with others I know. I will happily pay for private cover. Negligent suggests that it wasn't intentional
I would say lack of competence and possibly lack of training during busy workloads in some cases
Maybe they just didn't like you."or may be they fucked up by picking on the wrong person  | |||
"Just thankful I have Private Medical Cover, never trusted the NHS, they have been negligent on more than one occasion with myself, and also with others I know. I will happily pay for private cover. Negligent suggests that it wasn't intentional
I would say lack of competence and possibly lack of training during busy workloads in some cases
Maybe they just didn't like you.
or may be they fucked up by picking on the wrong person "They fucked up so much they got rid of you forever | |||
"Just thankful I have Private Medical Cover, never trusted the NHS, they have been negligent on more than one occasion with myself, and also with others I know. I will happily pay for private cover. Negligent suggests that it wasn't intentional
I would say lack of competence and possibly lack of training during busy workloads in some cases
Maybe they just didn't like you.
or may be they fucked up by picking on the wrong person
They fucked up so much they got rid of you forever " | |||
"Just thankful I have Private Medical Cover, never trusted the NHS, they have been negligent on more than one occasion with myself, and also with others I know. I will happily pay for private cover. Negligent suggests that it wasn't intentional
I would say lack of competence and possibly lack of training during busy workloads in some cases
Maybe they just didn't like you.
or may be they fucked up by picking on the wrong person
They fucked up so much they got rid of you forever " | |||
"Just thankful I have Private Medical Cover, never trusted the NHS, they have been negligent on more than one occasion with myself, and also with others I know. I will happily pay for private cover." I have a question or 3 or 4 for you: You say you have private medical cover and do not use the NHS. Does that mean you use private prescriptions and pay for your own drugs regardless of cost? Does that mean that you do not use NHS A&E and critical care services? Does that also mean that if your private hospital fucks up your will be transferred to a foreign hospital for emergency care rather than to your local NHS intensive care unit? Or does it mean that for GP care and routine elective surgery your opt out of the NHS system knowing that if it fucks up the NHS will be there for you? Personally I expect that you have only limited private health insurance and that although you continually slag off the NHS your rely on it nearly as much as everyone else. By the way, I have no problem with you having private healthcare, in fact I think it is good that many who can afford private healthcare do use it wherever possible because in doing so you ease pressures on the NHS. Where I do have a problem is when those who use private healthcare attempt to offset their choice against tax. I really do hope you do not fall into that last group of cynical tax avoiders. | |||
"Just thankful I have Private Medical Cover, never trusted the NHS, they have been negligent on more than one occasion with myself, and also with others I know. I will happily pay for private cover. I have a question or 3 or 4 for you: You say you have private medical cover and do not use the NHS. Does that mean you use private prescriptions and pay for your own drugs regardless of cost? Does that mean that you do not use NHS A&E and critical care services? Does that also mean that if your private hospital fucks up your will be transferred to a foreign hospital for emergency care rather than to your local NHS intensive care unit? Or does it mean that for GP care and routine elective surgery your opt out of the NHS system knowing that if it fucks up the NHS will be there for you? Personally I expect that you have only limited private health insurance and that although you continually slag off the NHS your rely on it nearly as much as everyone else. By the way, I have no problem with you having private healthcare, in fact I think it is good that many who can afford private healthcare do use it wherever possible because in doing so you ease pressures on the NHS. Where I do have a problem is when those who use private healthcare attempt to offset their choice against tax. I really do hope you do not fall into that last group of cynical tax avoiders. " will try and answer your questions willwill; **; I never said I do not use the NHS, I have a local GP who is very good and he is one person I do trust, unlike NHS hospitals local to me **; if I need a prescription it is written from my GP and as you know, if free. we do not pay for prescriptions in Scotland. **; Sadly yes I do A&E services and these are the ones who have fucked up both with myself and others, including Ambulance staff who insisted I get up and walk when I had severe neck and back pain, turns out I had 3 fractures to my spine, fractured T7, T8 and T8 rib A&E failed to pick up on this with xrays, it was only when I was discharged and went private, received an immediate MRI scan that this was found, I have many more issues and examples of NHS fuck ups, and the two Ambulance girls did receive a talking too once my complaint was sent in to health board. **; Truthfully I have never received or been on the end of any fuck up with private care and operations under private care, single rooms, spotless clean, tv & cd player, on suit toilet & shower, your choice of surgeon, excellent service from excellent nurses, of course all is paid for via your medical cover including medications, only thing that is not covered is alcohol if you wish a glass of wine with your meal, and yes wine can be served up if you wish, I never opted for this choice but it is on offer. **; Again my GP is NHS, local and excellent, to go private, you need a GP referral and he is happy to refer with the surgeon of my choice within spire hospitals and axa network **; I am luckily enough to have full health cover and a very good price as my private cover was carried over when I retired from the oil company I worked for, you have this option and it provides same medical cover of which you had when working, it also covers you for "pre existing illness/injury" and not many cover for this **; of course you should have no problem with my medical cover, I am taking pressure off our NHS and my insurance is paying for the medical service provided including hospital bed, nursing, surgeons and operations, which means I am paying my way much more than anyone on NHS including yourself. **; I never knew you can offset tax against this and I have no interest in doing so, I only pay tax on my pension & savings I did in the past avoid paying tax on my salary due to paying into AVC's as well as paying annual bonus's into AVC's although sadly there was a £40,000 cap on this, not sure what it is now. Good thing is, you can take out all your AVC's as a cash lump sum, that includes the 40% tax you avoided paying, its all legal me dear chum. any more questions on this? | |||
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"I dont have private health cover & being self employed no sick pay. Due to operations being cancelled etc chose to dig deep and 2 weeks ago paid privately for my hysterectomy after suffering a long time as just couldn't put myself through the NHS system - Fi "hope you have a speedy recovery xx | |||
"I dont have private health cover & being self employed no sick pay. Due to operations being cancelled etc chose to dig deep and 2 weeks ago paid privately for my hysterectomy after suffering a long time as just couldn't put myself through the NHS system - Fi
hope you have a speedy recovery xx"Thank you, so far gone amazing, externally healed great - glad its done xx | |||
