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What should happen?
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
What should happen to an MP/elected politician accused of sexual abuse?
I think that we can all agree that there is a spectrum of behaviour, and it's impossible to describe all possible scenarios, but for the sake of this discussion, I am going to lay 4 four levels; 1. Purely verbal, could be suggestive comments, comments on appearance etc. 2. Touching, but below a criminal offence such as a knee squeeze or bum pinch etc. 3. Touching that could be criminal, such as forcing yourself on someone. 4. Unconsenusual sex or sex acts.
I think most people would agree that where a criminal conviction has occurred, the MP should lose their seat, and a by-election held.
However I am a bit worried about the lower level cases. Politics after all is a serious business, and while it's important to investigate claims, it's also important to remember politicians have an important job to do. For example this government has a very slim majority, and it wouldn't take much to topple it. 10 people making 10 allegations could bring it down. There are also key politicians on certain issues for whom an allegation made at the appropriate time, could have a big impact, for example druing a referendum, or leadership campaign.
How do we make sure that politicians are held to account, without fundamentally damaging democracy? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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3 and 4 are covered by law and I would hope any person having this done to them would report it to the police as soon as they can.
1 and 2 should be dealt with via a complaint to whoever's in charge or a slap in the face and a prompt bollocking |
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All four are unacceptable if you can’t behave like a civilised person don’t take the job . If your guilty of any then dismissed . Perhaps parties should agree the person in second place gets the seat . Another detterent not to break the rules as your opposition get the seat
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"All four are unacceptable if you can’t behave like a civilised person don’t take the job . If your guilty of any then dismissed . Perhaps parties should agree the person in second place gets the seat . Another detterent not to break the rules as your opposition get the seat
"
I agree, should knighthoods be lost if proven? Certainly all four in my opinion |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I would say...what would most good employers do to you in any of those circumstances.
Some have zero tolerance of these types of behaviour...after the due appeal processes have been through of course..after all they are really only public employees...aqnd therefore should be held account like a clerk or dust binman would be
If the punishment for the offence is dismissal then yes they should lose the seat irregardless of party
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I would say...what would most good employers do to you in any of those circumstances.
Some have zero tolerance of these types of behaviour...after the due appeal processes have been through of course..after all they are really only public employees...aqnd therefore should be held account like a clerk or dust binman would be
If the punishment for the offence is dismissal then yes they should lose the seat irregardless of party
"
But you don't elect your bin man, and are not made aware if he does something wrong, it's out of the public eye and rightly so. However, I am not comfortable with an MP being thrown out of parliament behind closed doors. I think that would be an affront to the democratic process. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would say...what would most good employers do to you in any of those circumstances.
Some have zero tolerance of these types of behaviour...after the due appeal processes have been through of course..after all they are really only public employees...aqnd therefore should be held account like a clerk or dust binman would be
If the punishment for the offence is dismissal then yes they should lose the seat irregardless of party
But you don't elect your bin man, and are not made aware if he does something wrong, it's out of the public eye and rightly so. However, I am not comfortable with an MP being thrown out of parliament behind closed doors. I think that would be an affront to the democratic process."
agreed but your binman could be elected....what im saying basically they should be treated like any other employee would be...after the due process of course...were to quick to condemn innocent people from all walks of life tbh....there must be a process |
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I think the only thing that needs to be done is to put an adequate and robust complaints process for employees of MPs in place. MPs themselves are actually self-employed so, whilst they can be suspended or even dismissed from their party, they can not be dismissed from being an MP without dissolving the whole parliament, which, if you think about, is probably the best way to do things. To allow the government or other authority to sack and dismiss MPs would almost definitely create more problems than it possibly solve. |
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What should happen?
Really?
Why such questions when we all know the answer?
Unwanted crude speech directed at you or in your presence, record and publish it. If it continues a sharp kick or knee to the testis will generally result in a change in language used in your presence.
Unwanted sexual contact, that is called 'indecent assault' and should be dealt with accordingly...
Unwanted and unconsensual sex or sex where someone uses a position of power to force another person to submit to sex. That is called r@pe, and we all know how r@pists should be dealt with.
The thing I find horrifying is that anyone needs to ask how our lawmakers should be treated when they break the laws they make. I believe that those who make our laws, those who enforce those laws and those who set our punishments when we break those laws should be held to a higher standard of probity than the rest of us rather than a lower standard. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Eleven bars, restaurants and cafeterias in the House of Commons sell alcohol, with other outlets selling alcohol to peers in the House of Lords.
.
Why is it right that MP's & Lords can get filled with drink and carry out work without a blink of an eye, and yet the normal employee of any UK company would be sacked |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What should happen?
Really?
Why such questions when we all know the answer?
Unwanted crude speech directed at you or in your presence, record and publish it. If it continues a sharp kick or knee to the testis will generally result in a change in language used in your presence.
Unwanted sexual contact, that is called 'indecent assault' and should be dealt with accordingly...
Unwanted and unconsensual sex or sex where someone uses a position of power to force another person to submit to sex. That is called r@pe, and we all know how r@pists should be dealt with.
The thing I find horrifying is that anyone needs to ask how our lawmakers should be treated when they break the laws they make. I believe that those who make our laws, those who enforce those laws and those who set our punishments when we break those laws should be held to a higher standard of probity than the rest of us rather than a lower standard. "
.
 .
At last a normal lefty instead of the usual corporatist sell out take the money and say nothing lefty (we would normally call them right wingers, alas the only difference is these lefty's say nice lovely things while doing what Tories do! Help themselves)  |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"What should happen?
Really?
Why such questions when we all know the answer?
Unwanted crude speech directed at you or in your presence, record and publish it. If it continues a sharp kick or knee to the testis will generally result in a change in language used in your presence.
Unwanted sexual contact, that is called 'indecent assault' and should be dealt with accordingly...
Unwanted and unconsensual sex or sex where someone uses a position of power to force another person to submit to sex. That is called r@pe, and we all know how r@pists should be dealt with.
The thing I find horrifying is that anyone needs to ask how our lawmakers should be treated when they break the laws they make. I believe that those who make our laws, those who enforce those laws and those who set our punishments when we break those laws should be held to a higher standard of probity than the rest of us rather than a lower standard. "
As I said in the OP, most people agree that criminal convictions should lose their seat and a by-election held. However, there is plenty of behaviour than is unacceptable, that either doesn't meet the level of criminality, or might not be able to be proven in a court of law.
The question is what should happen in those cases. Should it be civil servants performing an HR function behind close doors? Or open to the public? Should it be a panel of public appointees? Should it be politicians?
Is being thrown out of a party enough?
Should a super majority of MPs be allowed to remove another MP, or could this be used as a political weapon, for example for big partiew to exclude smaller, even 1 person parliamentary parties? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What should happen?
Really?
Why such questions when we all know the answer?
Unwanted crude speech directed at you or in your presence, record and publish it. If it continues a sharp kick or knee to the testis will generally result in a change in language used in your presence.
Unwanted sexual contact, that is called 'indecent assault' and should be dealt with accordingly...
Unwanted and unconsensual sex or sex where someone uses a position of power to force another person to submit to sex. That is called r@pe, and we all know how r@pists should be dealt with.
The thing I find horrifying is that anyone needs to ask how our lawmakers should be treated when they break the laws they make. I believe that those who make our laws, those who enforce those laws and those who set our punishments when we break those laws should be held to a higher standard of probity than the rest of us rather than a lower standard. .
.
At last a normal lefty instead of the usual corporatist sell out take the money and say nothing lefty (we would normally call them right wingers, alas the only difference is these lefty's say nice lovely things while doing what Tories do! Help themselves) "
.. |
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By *omaMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
No one should be named until the case is proved guilty.
The accuser can remain anonymous but the accused is named.
This is a disgrace, The court's act in the same way,. . people named before they are tried. . . an absolute disgrace
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"No one should be named until the case is proved guilty.
The accuser can remain anonymous but the accused is named.
This is a disgrace, The court's act in the same way,. . people named before they are tried. . . an absolute disgrace
"
How do you have transparency in a system with anonymous participants? |
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"Eleven bars, restaurants and cafeterias in the House of Commons sell alcohol, with other outlets selling alcohol to peers in the House of Lords.
.
Why is it right that MP's & Lords can get filled with drink and carry out work without a blink of an eye, and yet the normal employee of any UK company would be sacked"
the bars used to be subsidised..
by guess whom..
 |
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By *omaMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"No one should be named until the case is proved guilty.
The accuser can remain anonymous but the accused is named.
This is a disgrace, The court's act in the same way,. . people named before they are tried. . . an absolute disgrace
How do you have transparency in a system with anonymousparticipants? "
How can someone be accused yet the accuser remains anonymous?
How many people have had their lives, relationships and careers ruined by wrongful accusations?
Shit sticks, that persons life will forever be tarnished.
If guilty then Yes, put it in the public eye . . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Referring to the OP.
The question raised was if they were “accused”.
So the answer is...the accusation should be investigated and proved or disproved. Only THEN should appropriate action be taken.
Look at what happened to the Welsh AP who committed suicide after basically trial and sentencing by media. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No one should be named until the case is proved guilty.
The accuser can remain anonymous but the accused is named.
This is a disgrace, The court's act in the same way,. . people named before they are tried. . . an absolute disgrace
How do you have transparency in a system with anonymous participants? "
So it’s OK for the accuser to remain anonymous but not the accused? ......who by law is innocent until proved guilty.? |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Referring to the OP.
The question raised was if they were “accused”.
So the answer is...the accusation should be investigated and proved or disproved. Only THEN should appropriate action be taken.
Look at what happened to the Welsh AP who committed suicide after basically trial and sentencing by media."
Maybe I poorly wrote the OP, but investigated in what way? And what action is appropriate for non-criminal behaviour? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It should be made iligal for the press and news agencies to report anything about such cases until there is actually a proven case to answer.
Too many of the gutter press delight in reporting shite like this just to sell news |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What should happen to an MP/elected politician accused of sexual abuse?
I think that we can all agree that there is a spectrum of behaviour, and it's impossible to describe all possible scenarios, but for the sake of this discussion, I am going to lay 4 four levels; 1. Purely verbal, could be suggestive comments, comments on appearance etc. 2. Touching, but below a criminal offence such as a knee squeeze or bum pinch etc. 3. Touching that could be criminal, such as forcing yourself on someone. 4. Unconsenusual sex or sex acts.
I think most people would agree that where a criminal conviction has occurred, the MP should lose their seat, and a by-election held.
However I am a bit worried about the lower level cases. Politics after all is a serious business, and while it's important to investigate claims, it's also important to remember politicians have an important job to do. For example this government has a very slim majority, and it wouldn't take much to topple it. 10 people making 10 allegations could bring it down. There are also key politicians on certain issues for whom an allegation made at the appropriate time, could have a big impact, for example druing a referendum, or leadership campaign.
How do we make sure that politicians are held to account, without fundamentally damaging democracy? "
Bankers are pretty democratic at screwing the world.
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