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Catalan independence very close part2
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Spains way of treating Catalonia
2003-2010 no to a new charter of antonomy for Catalonia
2012 no to new financial agreement for Catalonia
2012-2016 no to a binding referendum
2017 voiolence against voters and also not willing for any mediation and suspending the Catalan autonomy
What more do people want the Catalan government to do ? They have a mandate from the Calalan people to have a referendum and the did just that and the Catalan people vited they want independence
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"Viva España." What is the reasons why you want Cataloina to stay part of Spain ? Just curious | |||
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"Viva España. What is the reasons why you want Cataloina to stay part of Spain ? Just curious " Why do you want to see Shetlands stay as part of Scotland? Just curious. | |||
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" "Viva España. What is the reasons why you want Cataloina to stay part of Spain ? Just curious Why do you want to see Shetlands stay as part of Scotland? Just curious." Lol CLCC have Shetland said they want a referendum ? Come back to me when that happens I have no problem if the people in Shetland want to leave thats upto them to choose but they havent said the want to have a referendum mute point really See am not like on here for me its upto the people to mean a choice on thir own futures learn to accept what people want Oh and please non of the well scottish goverment is not respecting the 2014 referendum shite cause to put it nicely Scotland is not independent right now so it has been respected but the Scottish goverment do have a mandate for another independence its a thing democracy aint it ? It didnt end in 18th Sept 2014 So CLCC why do you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain? " Yes they have. And Alex Salmond created the Lerwick convention to look at giving them extra powers. Why would he do that if there is no independence movement? You wont even admit that there is an independence movement, you refuse to discuss it, and call it a mute point every time it's raised. I think its because you despise people who don't share your view of Scotland, even you fellow Scots. | |||
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"Lol CLCC have Shetland said they want a referendum ? Come back to me when that happens I have no problem if the people in Shetland want to leave thats upto them to choose but they havent said the want to have a referendum mute point really See am not like others on here for me its upto the people to mean a choice on thir own futures learn to accept what people want Oh and please non of the well scottish goverment is not respecting the 2014 referendum shite cause to put it nicely Scotland is not independent right now so it has been respected but the Scottish goverment do have a mandate for another independence its a great thing democracy aint it ? It didnt end in 18th Sept 2014 So CLCC why do you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain"  | |||
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" "Viva España. What is the reasons why you want Cataloina to stay part of Spain ? Just curious Why do you want to see Shetlands stay as part of Scotland? Just curious." Lol CLCC have Shetland said they want a referendum ? Come back to me when that happens I have no problem if the people in Shetland want to leave thats upto them to choose but they havent said the want to have a referendum mute point really See am not like on here for me its upto the people to mean a choice on thir own futures learn to accept what people want Oh and please non of the well scottish goverment is not respecting the 2014 referendum shite cause to put it nicely Scotland is not independent right now so it has been respected but the Scottish goverment do have a mandate for another independence its a thing democracy aint it ? It didnt end in 18th Sept 2014 So CLCC why do you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain? Yes they have. And Alex Salmond created the Lerwick convention to look at giving them extra powers. Why would he do that if there is no independence movement? You wont even admit that there is an independence movement, you refuse to discuss it, and call it a mute point every time it's raised. I think its because you despise people who don't share your view of Scotland, even you fellow Scots. " Yeah there is an independence movement in Shetland when i have i ever said there is not ? Fact is tho Shetland has not asked for a referendum to break away from an independent Scotland why because Scotland is not independent lol Hello!!! how many more tells if people in Shetland want to break away from an indpendent Scotland thats up to them to choice and put it forward So now that i have answered both your questions CLCC why is it you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain ? | |||
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" "Yes they have. And Alex Salmond created the Lerwick convention to look at giving them extra powers. Why would he do that if there is no independence movement? You wont even admit that there is an independence movement, you refuse to discuss it, and call it a mute point every time it's raised. I think its because you despise people who don't share your view of Scotland, even you fellow Scots. " YAWN | |||
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" "Yes they have. And Alex Salmond created the Lerwick convention to look at giving them extra powers. Why would he do that if there is no independence movement? You wont even admit that there is an independence movement, you refuse to discuss it, and call it a mute point every time it's raised. I think its because you despise people who don't share your view of Scotland, even you fellow Scots. YAWN" Are you refuse to discuss it too then? | |||
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" "Yes they have. And Alex Salmond created the Lerwick convention to look at giving them extra powers. Why would he do that if there is no independence movement? You wont even admit that there is an independence movement, you refuse to discuss it, and call it a mute point every time it's raised. I think its because you despise people who don't share your view of Scotland, even you fellow Scots. YAWN Are you refuse to discuss it too then? " Ok then how many people are in this movement why have they not put forward to have a referendum right now ? Ok Discuss floor is yours lol | |||
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" "Viva España. What is the reasons why you want Cataloina to stay part of Spain ? Just curious Why do you want to see Shetlands stay as part of Scotland? Just curious." Lol CLCC have Shetland said they want a referendum ? Come back to me when that happens I have no problem if the people in Shetland want to leave thats upto them to choose but they havent said the want to have a referendum mute point really See am not like on here for me its upto the people to mean a choice on thir own futures learn to accept what people want Oh and please non of the well scottish goverment is not respecting the 2014 referendum shite cause to put it nicely Scotland is not independent right now so it has been respected but the Scottish goverment do have a mandate for another independence its a thing democracy aint it ? It didnt end in 18th Sept 2014 So CLCC why do you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain? Yes they have. And Alex Salmond created the Lerwick convention to look at giving them extra powers. Why would he do that if there is no independence movement? You wont even admit that there is an independence movement, you refuse to discuss it, and call it a mute point every time it's raised. I think its because you despise people who don't share your view of Scotland, even you fellow Scots. Yeah there is an independence movement in Shetland when i have i ever said there is not ? Fact is tho Shetland has not asked for a referendum to break away from an independent Scotland why because Scotland is not independent lol Hello!!! how many more tells if people in Shetland want to break away from an indpendent Scotland thats up to them to choice and put it forward So now that i have answered both your questions CLCC why is it you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain ?" So do you deny that a motion passed by 13 of Orkney Islands Council's 21 members has demanded the chief executive compile a report considering "whether the people of Orkney could exercise self-determination if faced with further national or international constitutional changes, or indeed to decide if more autonomy might be beneficial for the wellbeing of Orkney" ? Do you deny that happened? | |||
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" "Viva España. What is the reasons why you want Cataloina to stay part of Spain ? Just curious Why do you want to see Shetlands stay as part of Scotland? Just curious." Lol CLCC have Shetland said they want a referendum ? Come back to me when that happens I have no problem if the people in Shetland want to leave thats upto them to choose but they havent said the want to have a referendum mute point really See am not like on here for me its upto the people to mean a choice on thir own futures learn to accept what people want Oh and please non of the well scottish goverment is not respecting the 2014 referendum shite cause to put it nicely Scotland is not independent right now so it has been respected but the Scottish goverment do have a mandate for another independence its a thing democracy aint it ? It didnt end in 18th Sept 2014 So CLCC why do you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain? Yes they have. And Alex Salmond created the Lerwick convention to look at giving them extra powers. Why would he do that if there is no independence movement? You wont even admit that there is an independence movement, you refuse to discuss it, and call it a mute point every time it's raised. I think its because you despise people who don't share your view of Scotland, even you fellow Scots. Yeah there is an independence movement in Shetland when i have i ever said there is not ? Fact is tho Shetland has not asked for a referendum to break away from an independent Scotland why because Scotland is not independent lol Hello!!! how many more tells if people in Shetland want to break away from an indpendent Scotland thats up to them to choice and put it forward So now that i have answered both your questions CLCC why is it you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain ? So do you deny that a motion passed by 13 of Orkney Islands Council's 21 members has demanded the chief executive compile a report considering "whether the people of Orkney could exercise self-determination if faced with further national or international constitutional changes, or indeed to decide if more autonomy might be beneficial for the wellbeing of Orkney" ? Do you deny that happened? " Is Scotland independent ? Your the one that keep telling me the constitution powers lies at Westminster Come back to me when Scotland is indpendent and then if Shetland wants a referendum and wants to leave again i have no fucking problem with it 4th time CLCC why is it you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain ? | |||
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" "Viva España. What is the reasons why you want Cataloina to stay part of Spain ? Just curious Why do you want to see Shetlands stay as part of Scotland? Just curious." Lol CLCC have Shetland said they want a referendum ? Come back to me when that happens I have no problem if the people in Shetland want to leave thats upto them to choose but they havent said the want to have a referendum mute point really See am not like on here for me its upto the people to mean a choice on thir own futures learn to accept what people want Oh and please non of the well scottish goverment is not respecting the 2014 referendum shite cause to put it nicely Scotland is not independent right now so it has been respected but the Scottish goverment do have a mandate for another independence its a thing democracy aint it ? It didnt end in 18th Sept 2014 So CLCC why do you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain? Yes they have. And Alex Salmond created the Lerwick convention to look at giving them extra powers. Why would he do that if there is no independence movement? You wont even admit that there is an independence movement, you refuse to discuss it, and call it a mute point every time it's raised. I think its because you despise people who don't share your view of Scotland, even you fellow Scots. Yeah there is an independence movement in Shetland when i have i ever said there is not ? Fact is tho Shetland has not asked for a referendum to break away from an independent Scotland why because Scotland is not independent lol Hello!!! how many more tells if people in Shetland want to break away from an indpendent Scotland thats up to them to choice and put it forward So now that i have answered both your questions CLCC why is it you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain ? So do you deny that a motion passed by 13 of Orkney Islands Council's 21 members has demanded the chief executive compile a report considering "whether the people of Orkney could exercise self-determination if faced with further national or international constitutional changes, or indeed to decide if more autonomy might be beneficial for the wellbeing of Orkney" ? Do you deny that happened? Is Scotland independent ? Your the one that keep telling me the constitution powers lies at Westminster Come back to me when Scotland is indpendent and then if Shetland wants a referendum and wants to leave again i have no fucking problem with it 4th time CLCC why is it you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain ?" It doesn't matter if Scotland is independent or not, it doesn't mention that in the motion. You still haven't answered my question, do you deny that motion was passed? You might have asked me that question 4 times, but I asked you how many ships are being built on the Clyde for the RN about 20 times, you never answered me. So don't expect me to answer your questions if you wont answer mine. | |||
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" "Viva España. What is the reasons why you want Cataloina to stay part of Spain ? Just curious Why do you want to see Shetlands stay as part of Scotland? Just curious." Lol CLCC have Shetland said they want a referendum ? Come back to me when that happens I have no problem if the people in Shetland want to leave thats upto them to choose but they havent said the want to have a referendum mute point really See am not like on here for me its upto the people to mean a choice on thir own futures learn to accept what people want Oh and please non of the well scottish goverment is not respecting the 2014 referendum shite cause to put it nicely Scotland is not independent right now so it has been respected but the Scottish goverment do have a mandate for another independence its a thing democracy aint it ? It didnt end in 18th Sept 2014 So CLCC why do you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain? Yes they have. And Alex Salmond created the Lerwick convention to look at giving them extra powers. Why would he do that if there is no independence movement? You wont even admit that there is an independence movement, you refuse to discuss it, and call it a mute point every time it's raised. I think its because you despise people who don't share your view of Scotland, even you fellow Scots. Yeah there is an independence movement in Shetland when i have i ever said there is not ? Fact is tho Shetland has not asked for a referendum to break away from an independent Scotland why because Scotland is not independent lol Hello!!! how many more tells if people in Shetland want to break away from an indpendent Scotland thats up to them to choice and put it forward So now that i have answered both your questions CLCC why is it you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain ? So do you deny that a motion passed by 13 of Orkney Islands Council's 21 members has demanded the chief executive compile a report considering "whether the people of Orkney could exercise self-determination if faced with further national or international constitutional changes, or indeed to decide if more autonomy might be beneficial for the wellbeing of Orkney" ? Do you deny that happened? Is Scotland independent ? Your the one that keep telling me the constitution powers lies at Westminster Come back to me when Scotland is indpendent and then if Shetland wants a referendum and wants to leave again i have no fucking problem with it 4th time CLCC why is it you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain ? It doesn't matter if Scotland is independent or not, it doesn't mention that in the motion. You still haven't answered my question, do you deny that motion was passed? You might have asked me that question 4 times, but I asked you how many ships are being built on the Clyde for the RN about 20 times, you never answered me. So don't expect me to answer your questions if you wont answer mine. " So Shetland wan independence from the UK ? Lol Now your lying i told time and time again 3 type 26 frigates are being buuld on the Clyde move on Remember what you were telling me last night why is it moving on to subjects about Scotland and not about Calalonia might wanna take some of your own advice as you brought up Shetland in my Catalonia post hehehehe | |||
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" "Viva España. What is the reasons why you want Cataloina to stay part of Spain ? Just curious Why do you want to see Shetlands stay as part of Scotland? Just curious." Lol CLCC have Shetland said they want a referendum ? Come back to me when that happens I have no problem if the people in Shetland want to leave thats upto them to choose but they havent said the want to have a referendum mute point really See am not like on here for me its upto the people to mean a choice on thir own futures learn to accept what people want Oh and please non of the well scottish goverment is not respecting the 2014 referendum shite cause to put it nicely Scotland is not independent right now so it has been respected but the Scottish goverment do have a mandate for another independence its a thing democracy aint it ? It didnt end in 18th Sept 2014 So CLCC why do you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain? Yes they have. And Alex Salmond created the Lerwick convention to look at giving them extra powers. Why would he do that if there is no independence movement? You wont even admit that there is an independence movement, you refuse to discuss it, and call it a mute point every time it's raised. I think its because you despise people who don't share your view of Scotland, even you fellow Scots. Yeah there is an independence movement in Shetland when i have i ever said there is not ? Fact is tho Shetland has not asked for a referendum to break away from an independent Scotland why because Scotland is not independent lol Hello!!! how many more tells if people in Shetland want to break away from an indpendent Scotland thats up to them to choice and put it forward So now that i have answered both your questions CLCC why is it you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain ? So do you deny that a motion passed by 13 of Orkney Islands Council's 21 members has demanded the chief executive compile a report considering "whether the people of Orkney could exercise self-determination if faced with further national or international constitutional changes, or indeed to decide if more autonomy might be beneficial for the wellbeing of Orkney" ? Do you deny that happened? Is Scotland independent ? Your the one that keep telling me the constitution powers lies at Westminster Come back to me when Scotland is indpendent and then if Shetland wants a referendum and wants to leave again i have no fucking problem with it 4th time CLCC why is it you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain ? It doesn't matter if Scotland is independent or not, it doesn't mention that in the motion. You still haven't answered my question, do you deny that motion was passed? You might have asked me that question 4 times, but I asked you how many ships are being built on the Clyde for the RN about 20 times, you never answered me. So don't expect me to answer your questions if you wont answer mine. So Shetland wan independence from the UK ? Lol Now your lying i told time and time again 3 type 26 frigates are being buuld on the Clyde move on Remember what you were telling me last night why is it moving on to subjects about Scotland and not about Calalonia might wanna take some of your own advice as you brought up Shetland in my Catalonia post hehehehe" Yes, you have incorrectly said that only 3 type 26 frigates are being built, but you haven't said the total number of ships being built on the Clyde for the RN have you? You are only talking about one class of ship, do you know how many types of ship are being built for the RN on the Clyde? If you are able to only talk about catalonia on this thread, and not mention Scotland, I won't bring up the independence movements in the islands. Sound fair? I highly doubt you will be able to get this thread to 175 without mentioning Scotland. | |||
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" "Viva España. What is the reasons why you want Cataloina to stay part of Spain ? Just curious Why do you want to see Shetlands stay as part of Scotland? Just curious." Lol CLCC have Shetland said they want a referendum ? Come back to me when that happens I have no problem if the people in Shetland want to leave thats upto them to choose but they havent said the want to have a referendum mute point really See am not like on here for me its upto the people to mean a choice on thir own futures learn to accept what people want Oh and please non of the well scottish goverment is not respecting the 2014 referendum shite cause to put it nicely Scotland is not independent right now so it has been respected but the Scottish goverment do have a mandate for another independence its a thing democracy aint it ? It didnt end in 18th Sept 2014 So CLCC why do you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain? Yes they have. And Alex Salmond created the Lerwick convention to look at giving them extra powers. Why would he do that if there is no independence movement? You wont even admit that there is an independence movement, you refuse to discuss it, and call it a mute point every time it's raised. I think its because you despise people who don't share your view of Scotland, even you fellow Scots. Yeah there is an independence movement in Shetland when i have i ever said there is not ? Fact is tho Shetland has not asked for a referendum to break away from an independent Scotland why because Scotland is not independent lol Hello!!! how many more tells if people in Shetland want to break away from an indpendent Scotland thats up to them to choice and put it forward So now that i have answered both your questions CLCC why is it you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain ? So do you deny that a motion passed by 13 of Orkney Islands Council's 21 members has demanded the chief executive compile a report considering "whether the people of Orkney could exercise self-determination if faced with further national or international constitutional changes, or indeed to decide if more autonomy might be beneficial for the wellbeing of Orkney" ? Do you deny that happened? Is Scotland independent ? Your the one that keep telling me the constitution powers lies at Westminster Come back to me when Scotland is indpendent and then if Shetland wants a referendum and wants to leave again i have no fucking problem with it 4th time CLCC why is it you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain ? It doesn't matter if Scotland is independent or not, it doesn't mention that in the motion. You still haven't answered my question, do you deny that motion was passed? You might have asked me that question 4 times, but I asked you how many ships are being built on the Clyde for the RN about 20 times, you never answered me. So don't expect me to answer your questions if you wont answer mine. So Shetland wan independence from the UK ? Lol Now your lying i told time and time again 3 type 26 frigates are being buuld on the Clyde move on Remember what you were telling me last night why is it moving on to subjects about Scotland and not about Calalonia might wanna take some of your own advice as you brought up Shetland in my Catalonia post hehehehe Yes, you have incorrectly said that only 3 type 26 frigates are being built, but you haven't said the total number of ships being built on the Clyde for the RN have you? You are only talking about one class of ship, do you know how many types of ship are being built for the RN on the Clyde? If you are able to only talk about catalonia on this thread, and not mention Scotland, I won't bring up the independence movements in the islands. Sound fair? I highly doubt you will be able to get this thread to 175 without mentioning Scotland." Move on from the frigates i have answered it This is my thread and i will talk about what i want that is not a crime I was just pointing out how you were the one that was complaining about talk about other things in a Catalonia thread yet go back upto the top of the page and oh look CLCC you were the first one to talk about other things other than Catalonia can you not see the double standards there ? Lol So lets bring it back to Catalonia and Spain eh ? So CLCC why is it you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain ? | |||
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" "Viva España. What is the reasons why you want Cataloina to stay part of Spain ? Just curious Why do you want to see Shetlands stay as part of Scotland? Just curious." Lol CLCC have Shetland said they want a referendum ? Come back to me when that happens I have no problem if the people in Shetland want to leave thats upto them to choose but they havent said the want to have a referendum mute point really See am not like on here for me its upto the people to mean a choice on thir own futures learn to accept what people want Oh and please non of the well scottish goverment is not respecting the 2014 referendum shite cause to put it nicely Scotland is not independent right now so it has been respected but the Scottish goverment do have a mandate for another independence its a thing democracy aint it ? It didnt end in 18th Sept 2014 So CLCC why do you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain? Yes they have. And Alex Salmond created the Lerwick convention to look at giving them extra powers. Why would he do that if there is no independence movement? You wont even admit that there is an independence movement, you refuse to discuss it, and call it a mute point every time it's raised. I think its because you despise people who don't share your view of Scotland, even you fellow Scots. Yeah there is an independence movement in Shetland when i have i ever said there is not ? Fact is tho Shetland has not asked for a referendum to break away from an independent Scotland why because Scotland is not independent lol Hello!!! how many more tells if people in Shetland want to break away from an indpendent Scotland thats up to them to choice and put it forward So now that i have answered both your questions CLCC why is it you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain ? So do you deny that a motion passed by 13 of Orkney Islands Council's 21 members has demanded the chief executive compile a report considering "whether the people of Orkney could exercise self-determination if faced with further national or international constitutional changes, or indeed to decide if more autonomy might be beneficial for the wellbeing of Orkney" ? Do you deny that happened? Is Scotland independent ? Your the one that keep telling me the constitution powers lies at Westminster Come back to me when Scotland is indpendent and then if Shetland wants a referendum and wants to leave again i have no fucking problem with it 4th time CLCC why is it you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain ? It doesn't matter if Scotland is independent or not, it doesn't mention that in the motion. You still haven't answered my question, do you deny that motion was passed? You might have asked me that question 4 times, but I asked you how many ships are being built on the Clyde for the RN about 20 times, you never answered me. So don't expect me to answer your questions if you wont answer mine. So Shetland wan independence from the UK ? Lol Now your lying i told time and time again 3 type 26 frigates are being buuld on the Clyde move on Remember what you were telling me last night why is it moving on to subjects about Scotland and not about Calalonia might wanna take some of your own advice as you brought up Shetland in my Catalonia post hehehehe Yes, you have incorrectly said that only 3 type 26 frigates are being built, but you haven't said the total number of ships being built on the Clyde for the RN have you? You are only talking about one class of ship, do you know how many types of ship are being built for the RN on the Clyde? If you are able to only talk about catalonia on this thread, and not mention Scotland, I won't bring up the independence movements in the islands. Sound fair? I highly doubt you will be able to get this thread to 175 without mentioning Scotland. Move on from the frigates i have answered it This is my thread and i will talk about what i want that is not a crime I was just pointing out how you were the one that was complaining about talk about other things in a Catalonia thread yet go back upto the top of the page and oh look CLCC you were the first one to talk about other things other than Catalonia can you not see the double standards there ? Lol So lets bring it back to Catalonia and Spain eh ? So CLCC why is it you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain ?" You still haven't answered IT! Why you are so terrified to admit that 13 ships are being built for the RN? I've show you press releases and video of the ships, from the manufacturer, and you still don't believe IT!  | |||
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"CLCC move on You wanna talk about Catalonia then please answer my question I am curious to know your thoughts. So why do you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain ? " So we just move on from the questions you don't want to answer? Nah. Have fun kinky, I think I'll just observe your trainwrecks of threads where poster after poster destroys your inane posts and highlights your ignorance of the topic at hand. You carry on cheering for Catalan independence whilst ignoring your fellow countrymen who want to get away from you. Just remember to look down at your own hands when there is blood running in the streets of Catalonia. Your hands will have just as much blood on them. | |||
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"That will be the side that breaks the law and destroys the constitution that it accepted. Viva España. " Right come on then why do you want Catalonia to stat part of Spain ? | |||
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" What more do people want the Catalan government to do ? They have a mandate from the Calalan people to have a referendum and the did just that and the Catalan people vited they want independence " what more do people want the catalan government do.... well..... lets look at the context first.... 1) the fundemental issue is that the present catalan government changed the rules as to what would constitute "victory" in the without any debate going thru the catalan parliament.... the original rules that were sent in place is that they would need a 2/3rd majority for any vote... they would have needed 93 votes.... the present government change that rule to a straight majority which meant they needed 72 votes... but that did this with no debate in the catalan parliament and no vote on the matter whatsoever..... that is why the original "victory" and "referendum" was deemed illegal....... so..... 2) whether the catalan government like it of not there was only a 40% turnout.... if you wanted it you voted, if not you boycotted!!! you might not like the fact... but if you can't get a majority to vote in the first place.... thats an issue!!! the spanish government hijacked the referendum, and the catalan government if they go ahead are no better because they are hijacking the will of the law abaiding people who stayed away and did not vote because the vote was illegal in the first place.... so what should the spanish government do..... state wise.... nothing!!!! just say the vote was illegal, but just go about business as if it had never happened..... | |||
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"International law Article 1 The state of a person of international law should possess the following qualifications . A permanent population . A defined territory . A government . Capacity to enter relations with other states. Article 3 The political existence of a state is independent of recognition by other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence to provide for its conservation and prosperity and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit to legislate upon its interests administer its services and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts. The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law Now that sounds like to me Catalonia meets the basis required for statehood Good good now lets all wish the Catalan people well and hope they are not beaten the hell out of if it declared tomorrow no one wants bloodshed a clear break without bloodshed respect the will of the people of Catalonia they want independence they have their own culture and language and they are very proud of it Catalonia is NOT Spain!!!!" Come on now, the right of a people to nationhood is clearly of no interest to the federalists.... | |||
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"International law Article 1 The state of a person of international law should possess the following qualifications . A permanent population . A defined territory . A government . Capacity to enter relations with other states. Article 3 The political existence of a state is independent of recognition by other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence to provide for its conservation and prosperity and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit to legislate upon its interests administer its services and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts. The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law Now that sounds like to me Catalonia meets the basis required for statehood Good good now lets all wish the Catalan people well and hope they are not beaten the hell out of if it declared tomorrow no one wants bloodshed a clear break without bloodshed respect the will of the people of Catalonia they want independence they have their own culture and language and they are very proud of it Catalonia is NOT Spain!!!!" so what if the catalan government didn't follow the rules set out by their own constitution in the 1st place? look... i don't like the way the spanish government have handled it at all.... but if the catalan govenrment are really going to declare independence why they didn't follow their own rules... and only 40% of people turned out..... then they are masters of their own downfall... as is evident in the fact that the big economical institutions are move money from barcelona to madrid.... you make it sound as if the resentment is only going one way.... if the catalan government go ahead with the resentment is going to go both ways!!!! there is going to be a huge amount of the population you think the nationalists are going way too far! | |||
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"Albert Rivera, calls the Spanish Government to force elections in Catalonia & "guarantee" that pro-unionist parties will win Is this what people call democracy? I call it trying to rig an election because you don't like what the people voted for. Who serious wants to defend Fascism ? " Fascism???? What are u on about? Are you a simpleton? It was an ILLEGAL vote. It has no legal standing under a constitution. It is a selfish power grab by Catalan politicians fuelled by populism. It was a deliberate attempt to weaken a country and all you are going on about Franco, a general who's dead 42 years! What is defending a country and its constitution got to do with fascism? Are you a wind up merchant or what? | |||
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"Fabio, do you agree with Article 1 and 3 in the international law? From what you can see from both Articles does it sound like Catalonia meets the basis required for statehood? Would have been a higher turn out if Spanish police didn't go about beating the hell out of people 1,000 people injured is nothing to be proud of and 700,000 ballots stole If no referendum took place why beat the hell out of people and steal ballot papers? You know Spain's government fear to lose Catalonia " Yet again u fail to understand the referendum was an illegal act and if a person breaks the law there are consequences to their actions. | |||
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"Albert Rivera, calls the Spanish Government to force elections in Catalonia & "guarantee" that pro-unionist parties will win Is this what people call democracy? I call it trying to rig an election because you don't like what the people voted for. Who serious wants to defend Fascism ? Fascism???? What are u on about? Are you a simpleton? It was an ILLEGAL vote. It has no legal standing under a constitution. It is a selfish power grab by Catalan politicians fuelled by populism. It was a deliberate attempt to weaken a country and all you are going on about Franco, a general who's dead 42 years! What is defending a country and its constitution got to do with fascism? Are you a wind up merchant or what? " Ok say the elections go ahead and is rigged so pro unionists win the election is that democracy ? What do they fear. | |||
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"Fabio, do you agree with Article 1 and 3 in the international law? From what you can see from both Articles does it sound like Catalonia meets the basis required for statehood? Would have been a higher turn out if Spanish police didn't go about beating the hell out of people 1,000 people injured is nothing to be proud of and 700,000 ballots stole If no referendum took place why beat the hell out of people and steal ballot papers? You know Spain's government fear to lose Catalonia Yet again u fail to understand the referendum was an illegal act and if a person breaks the law there are consequences to their actions. " Read the Articles on International Law from what you can see from both Articles does it sound like Catalonia meets the basis required for statehood? Again if no referendum too place why people the shit of people ? Do you think a referendum took place on the 1st Oct ? If not why you defending the Spanish police being people up ? If no referendum took place why not just ignore it ? Could have saved alot of people being injured correct ? | |||
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"Fabio, do you agree with Article 1 and 3 in the international law? From what you can see from both Articles does it sound like Catalonia meets the basis required for statehood? Would have been a higher turn out if Spanish police didn't go about beating the hell out of people 1,000 people injured is nothing to be proud of and 700,000 ballots stole If no referendum took place why beat the hell out of people and steal ballot papers? You know Spain's government fear to lose Catalonia Yet again u fail to understand the referendum was an illegal act and if a person breaks the law there are consequences to their actions. Read the Articles on International Law from what you can see from both Articles does it sound like Catalonia meets the basis required for statehood? Again if no referendum too place why people the shit of people ? Do you think a referendum took place on the 1st Oct ? If not why you defending the Spanish police being people up ? If no referendum took place why not just ignore it ? Could have saved alot of people being injured correct ? " No catalonia is not a state nor is Scotland. If they didn't engage in an illegal gathering there would not have been any need for the police to be there. It was illegal, it was treason so they should have accepted the consequences of their actions. I have no sympathy whatsoever or them. Stop making them out to be victims. They were lawbreakers and were engaging in an illegal act. They had no legal right to attempt to force a referendum and they paid the price for their actions. I'm wondering if u have ever even been to Catalonia at all. You are like some kind of armchair republican commenting on something you know absolutely nothing about and something that has no effect on your life in Scotland which is part of the United Kingdom a choice to remain in which was made by Scottish people. Of course you will just bang you're drum until you get what you want. But be credulity what you wish for. You might end up with Some sentimental cultural utopia that can't finance itself. | |||
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"Albert Rivera, calls the Spanish Government to force elections in Catalonia & "guarantee" that pro-unionist parties will win Is this what people call democracy? I call it trying to rig an election because you don't like what the people voted for. Who serious wants to defend Fascism ? Fascism???? What are u on about? Are you a simpleton? It was an ILLEGAL vote. It has no legal standing under a constitution. It is a selfish power grab by Catalan politicians fuelled by populism. It was a deliberate attempt to weaken a country and all you are going on about Franco, a general who's dead 42 years! What is defending a country and its constitution got to do with fascism? Are you a wind up merchant or what? Ok say the elections go ahead and is rigged so pro unionists win the election is that democracy ? What do they fear. " So you think that the Spanish government would 'rig' a referendum? Perhaps you think that Westminster did that in Scottish referendum also? Or maybe you think that just because it's Spain and it's Spanish people they do things like that? Your biases are bordering on racist when you are thinking that kind of thing. | |||
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"Fabio, do you agree with Article 1 and 3 in the international law? From what you can see from both Articles does it sound like Catalonia meets the basis required for statehood? Would have been a higher turn out if Spanish police didn't go about beating the hell out of people 1,000 people injured is nothing to be proud of and 700,000 ballots stole If no referendum took place why beat the hell out of people and steal ballot papers? You know Spain's government fear to lose Catalonia Yet again u fail to understand the referendum was an illegal act and if a person breaks the law there are consequences to their actions. Read the Articles on International Law from what you can see from both Articles does it sound like Catalonia meets the basis required for statehood? Again if no referendum too place why people the shit of people ? Do you think a referendum took place on the 1st Oct ? If not why you defending the Spanish police being people up ? If no referendum took place why not just ignore it ? Could have saved alot of people being injured correct ? No catalonia is not a state nor is Scotland. If they didn't engage in an illegal gathering there would not have been any need for the police to be there. It was illegal, it was treason so they should have accepted the consequences of their actions. I have no sympathy whatsoever or them. Stop making them out to be victims. They were lawbreakers and were engaging in an illegal act. They had no legal right to attempt to force a referendum and they paid the price for their actions. I'm wondering if u have ever even been to Catalonia at all. You are like some kind of armchair republican commenting on something you know absolutely nothing about and something that has no effect on your life in Scotland which is part of the United Kingdom a choice to remain in which was made by Scottish people. Of course you will just bang you're drum until you get what you want. But be credulity what you wish for. You might end up with Some sentimental cultural utopia that can't finance itself." So you dont agree with Article 1 and 3 of International Law then ? So do you think no referendum took place on the 1st Oct ? Why not just ignore the vote and save 1,000 people being injured ? Yes i have been to Barcelona beautiful place and very lovely people the Catalans I wouldnt put it past the Spanish government trying to rig the election if it did go ahead imagine trying to force elections in Catalonia to "guarantee" that pro-unionist parties will win some democracy that is | |||
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You don't believe your own snp Scottish governments figures in its annual Government Expenditure and Revenues report!
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"Albert Rivera, calls the Spanish Government to force elections in Catalonia & "guarantee" that pro-unionist parties will win Is this what people call democracy? I call it trying to rig an election because you don't like what the people voted for. Who serious wants to defend Fascism ? Fascism???? What are u on about? Are you a simpleton? It was an ILLEGAL vote. It has no legal standing under a constitution. It is a selfish power grab by Catalan politicians fuelled by populism. It was a deliberate attempt to weaken a country and all you are going on about Franco, a general who's dead 42 years! What is defending a country and its constitution got to do with fascism? Are you a wind up merchant or what? "  | |||
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"Albert Rivera, calls the Spanish Government to force elections in Catalonia & "guarantee" that pro-unionist parties will win Is this what people call democracy? I call it trying to rig an election because you don't like what the people voted for. Who serious wants to defend Fascism ? Fascism???? What are u on about? Are you a simpleton? It was an ILLEGAL vote. It has no legal standing under a constitution. It is a selfish power grab by Catalan politicians fuelled by populism. It was a deliberate attempt to weaken a country and all you are going on about Franco, a general who's dead 42 years! What is defending a country and its constitution got to do with fascism? Are you a wind up merchant or what? " Expect Hitler and Mussolini to reappear when Bavaria and Lombardy demand more autonomy! | |||
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" "Viva España. What is the reasons why you want Cataloina to stay part of Spain ? Just curious Why do you want to see Shetlands stay as part of Scotland? Just curious." Lol CLCC have Shetland said they want a referendum ? Come back to me when that happens I have no problem if the people in Shetland want to leave thats upto them to choose but they havent said the want to have a referendum mute point really See am not like on here for me its upto the people to mean a choice on thir own futures learn to accept what people want Oh and please non of the well scottish goverment is not respecting the 2014 referendum shite cause to put it nicely Scotland is not independent right now so it has been respected but the Scottish goverment do have a mandate for another independence its a thing democracy aint it ? It didnt end in 18th Sept 2014 So CLCC why do you want Catalonia to stay part of Spain? Yes they have. And Alex Salmond created the Lerwick convention to look at giving them extra powers. Why would he do that if there is no independence movement? You wont even admit that there is an independence movement, you refuse to discuss it, and call it a mute point every time it's raised. I think its because you despise people who don't share your view of Scotland, even you fellow Scots. " And it is mostly Shetland's oil | |||
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"The most important point is that Catalonia IS part of Spain right now. No matter what UN say Catalonia is governed by the Spanish constitution. If they want a legal vote that they have to negotiate for one. Personally I think they should be allowed a vote then we will see if their is a silent majority or not." If they do have a new referendum and it comes out remain, the Catalan leadership are gonna look like a right bunch of pillocks! | |||
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"Fabio, do you agree with Article 1 and 3 in the international law? From what you can see from both Articles does it sound like Catalonia meets the basis required for statehood? Would have been a higher turn out if Spanish police didn't go about beating the hell out of people 1,000 people injured is nothing to be proud of and 700,000 ballots stole If no referendum took place why beat the hell out of people and steal ballot papers? You know Spain's government fear to lose Catalonia " it's like you write without reading what other people have informed you off and actually taken in what we like to call facts... but still take zero notice! blinded!!!! so lets start again with the "fact" 1) the fundemental issue is that the present catalan government changed the rules as to what would constitute "victory" in a proposed referendum vote without any debate going thru the catalan parliament.... the original rules for any proposed referendum vote to take place that were sent in place is that they would need a 2/3rd majority in that catalan parliament for any vote... for this they would have needed 93 votes.... the present catalan government change that rule to a straight majority which meant they only needed 72 votes... but they did this with no debate AND no vote in the catalan parliament on the matter whatsoever..... that is why the original "victory" and "referendum" was deemed illegal....... the catalan government knew they could not reach 93 votes.... so they changed the rules with no notice to anyone, with no debate with anyone and no vote with anyone!! | |||
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"Fabio, do you agree with Article 1 and 3 in the international law? From what you can see from both Articles does it sound like Catalonia meets the basis required for statehood? Would have been a higher turn out if Spanish police didn't go about beating the hell out of people 1,000 people injured is nothing to be proud of and 700,000 ballots stole If no referendum took place why beat the hell out of people and steal ballot papers? You know Spain's government fear to lose Catalonia it's like you write without reading what other people have informed you off and actually taken in what we like to call facts... but still take zero notice! blinded!!!! so lets start again with the "fact" 1) the fundemental issue is that the present catalan government changed the rules as to what would constitute "victory" in a proposed referendum vote without any debate going thru the catalan parliament.... the original rules for any proposed referendum vote to take place that were sent in place is that they would need a 2/3rd majority in that catalan parliament for any vote... for this they would have needed 93 votes.... the present catalan government change that rule to a straight majority which meant they only needed 72 votes... but they did this with no debate AND no vote in the catalan parliament on the matter whatsoever..... that is why the original "victory" and "referendum" was deemed illegal....... the catalan government knew they could not reach 93 votes.... so they changed the rules with no notice to anyone, with no debate with anyone and no vote with anyone!!" But that's democracy! | |||
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"The snp,s very own constitution requires a 66% majority for any amendments to be made to it. The same high standard should be applied to any changes to our constitution. " But if Nicola demands it therefore it will happen !!! | |||
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"The snp,s very own constitution requires a 66% majority for any amendments to be made to it. The same high standard should be applied to any changes to our constitution. " How many people would need to join the SNP to pass a motion for it to disband?  | |||
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"Fabio, do you agree with Article 1 and 3 in the international law? From what you can see from both Articles does it sound like Catalonia meets the basis required for statehood? Would have been a higher turn out if Spanish police didn't go about beating the hell out of people 1,000 people injured is nothing to be proud of and 700,000 ballots stole If no referendum took place why beat the hell out of people and steal ballot papers? You know Spain's government fear to lose Catalonia Yet again u fail to understand the referendum was an illegal act and if a person breaks the law there are consequences to their actions. Read the Articles on International Law from what you can see from both Articles does it sound like Catalonia meets the basis required for statehood? Again if no referendum too place why people the shit of people ? Do you think a referendum took place on the 1st Oct ? If not why you defending the Spanish police being people up ? If no referendum took place why not just ignore it ? Could have saved alot of people being injured correct ? No catalonia is not a state nor is Scotland. If they didn't engage in an illegal gathering there would not have been any need for the police to be there. It was illegal, it was treason so they should have accepted the consequences of their actions. I have no sympathy whatsoever or them. Stop making them out to be victims. They were lawbreakers and were engaging in an illegal act. They had no legal right to attempt to force a referendum and they paid the price for their actions. I'm wondering if u have ever even been to Catalonia at all. You are like some kind of armchair republican commenting on something you know absolutely nothing about and something that has no effect on your life in Scotland which is part of the United Kingdom a choice to remain in which was made by Scottish people. Of course you will just bang you're drum until you get what you want. But be credulity what you wish for. You might end up with Some sentimental cultural utopia that can't finance itself. So you dont agree with Article 1 and 3 of International Law then ? So do you think no referendum took place on the 1st Oct ? Why not just ignore the vote and save 1,000 people being injured ? Yes i have been to Barcelona beautiful place and very lovely people the Catalans I wouldnt put it past the Spanish government trying to rig the election if it did go ahead imagine trying to force elections in Catalonia to "guarantee" that pro-unionist parties will win some democracy that is " What is article 1 and 3 of international law? That makes no sense. You can't even get that right. AGAIN I repeat....What took place was an illegal gathering that was anti constitutional and was an act of treason against the Spanish state. If u act in this manner then you should perhaps accept there will be consequences to those actions. The argument u put forward that if it was not a referendum then it should have been simply ignored is farcical. It would be ignoring a deliberate attack on the Spanish state. And to say you would not put it past the Spanish government to rig an election is actually insulting to Spanish people and racist. Your level of ignorance in this matter seems to know no bounds. Perhaps you should just stick to advocating for an independent Scotland even though Scotland has voted to remain as part of the UK. I have news for you.....You lost that battle when the majority of scots disagreed with you view so now you seem to want to cheer on another attempt at a seperatist movement based on a perceived cultural difference. Your populist views are narrow minded and biased and you don't have a clue about what you are talking about. | |||
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" What is article 1 and 3 of international law? That makes no sense. You can't even get that right. "
Cringe worthy level of ignorance. As if "international law" is a single, codified document instead of thousands of different conventions and treaties!
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"if you are going to quote a figure then at least know what it means rather than you trying to twist the figures... so regarding the "770,000 stolen votes" The Catalan government estimated that up to 770,000 votes were not cast due to polling stations being closed off during the police crackdown, However..... there was a "universal census" system introduced earlier in the day which allowed electors to vote in any given polling station so.... a) up to 770,000 people if everyone had voted.... bearing in mind there was still only a 40% ish turnout..... b) those people who couldn't vote at closed polling stations still could have voted elsewhere..... and they don't give an number for how many people did that!!! once again you are being extremely disengenious with figures and what they show.... at best you are misleading people, at worst you are blantantly lying!!! so which is it?" Also, if the electorate is Total 5,343,478, why did they print more than 10,000,000 ballots, even before they let people print their own?  | |||
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"What I find strange is how many people all over the world are so fixated on country and tribal identity when all the evidence shows that tribalism leads to conflict and destruction whereas pluralism leads to stability and advancement. There is a simple reason why the USA, USSR (Russian Federation) and China were the most powerful countries in the world and why now the EU is joining them. Size matters!" Didn't work very well for the USSR did it, it no longer exists. | |||
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"What I find strange is how many people all over the world are so fixated on country and tribal identity when all the evidence shows that tribalism leads to conflict and destruction whereas pluralism leads to stability and advancement. There is a simple reason why the USA, USSR (Russian Federation) and China were the most powerful countries in the world and why now the EU is joining them. Size matters!" Powerful in what sense? They certainly have a history of being destructive and responsible for causing conflict As I'm one of the few posters here who will remain in the EU after 2019 I'd rather we didn't use the USSR as a role model if I'm honest Meanwhile small countries such as Switzerland, Norway and Iceland all outside the EU, are peaceful prosperous countries with no wish for conflict and have no need to join the EU or to form the next USSR Take from that what you will | |||
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"Congrats to Catalonia for gaining its independence Free from the Spanish government dictators I wish them well and hope its a clean break and no bloodshed The Catalans want to have the right to be a free and peaceful state As for Spain i hope when there elections take place they vote to get that Rajoy out of government " just saw it live on sky news. I wish the catalan people well. Not only are they freeing themselves from Spain they also automatically free themselves from the EU at the same time. | |||
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"Have they gained indipendance? " Yup they have good luck to them "We hereby constitute the Catalan Republic as an independent, sovereign, legal, democratic, socially-conscious state" | |||
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"Have they gained indipendance? " The Catalan Parliament just voted on it, results as follows.... 70 in favour of independence from Spain. 10 against independence from Spain. 2 blank votes. The Catalan Parliament has voted in favour of it and declared Catalonia an independent Republic. | |||
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"It does not look like that are independent to me. The Spanish government has not agreed to it so it is not legal." So you don't think the USA is an independent country? Yes i know there was a war sadly for the USA declaration but its a country So what would you like to happen now ? Want Spanish police to move in a beat people up ? | |||
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"Right I'm going through all the news websites and can see nothing that says they now have indipendance from Spain. Where are these vote results coming from? Confused.com" "We hereby constitute the Catalan Republic as an independent, sovereign, legal, democratic, socially-conscious state" That is the declaration of the new state of Catalonia Am pretty sure it would have been signed off by now I hope no for NO bloodshed but fear the Spanish police may try and hurt people thats no cool The countries around the world will see Catalonia as an state am sure of that all it takes is the first few then the rest will follow | |||
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"Right I'm going through all the news websites and can see nothing that says they now have indipendance from Spain. Where are these vote results coming from? Confused.com" They have declared it, but that doesn't make it so. To prove it, I am now officially declaring Cambridge to be an independent country. | |||
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"Right I'm going through all the news websites and can see nothing that says they now have indipendance from Spain. Where are these vote results coming from? Confused.com They have declared it, but that doesn't make it so. To prove it, I am now officially declaring Cambridge to be an independent country." Right with that kind of logic are you saying you do not recognize the USA as a country ? Yes i know your going to point out a war took place yes i know this sadly that happened but the USA used UDI so do you not recognize them as a country ? | |||
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"It does not look like that are independent to me. The Spanish government has not agreed to it so it is not legal. So you don't think the USA is an independent country? Yes i know there was a war sadly for the USA declaration but its a country So what would you like to happen now ? Want Spanish police to move in a beat people up ? " what has the USA for to do with it ??? Britain could not sustain a wee against the and we're defeated therfore usa born out of defeat !!! | |||
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"All quiet in Southern Spain. It’s on all channels though. " Yep that's why I'm confused very little on the local channels regarding it. | |||
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"War" So what would you like to happen now Catalonia? Surely you dont want Spanish police to move in a beat people up? My opinion its not upto us we dont live in Catalonia thats Catalan people and they did vote for independence. Now you may argue that it was illegal but Spain had plenty of time to change the rules and allow a binding referendum. If the Spanish government honestly believe the majority dont want Catalan independence it was upto them to prove it 2 million went out and voted even with fear of being beaten up for what voting fucking hell what the hell has this world turned into. | |||
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"Right I'm going through all the news websites and can see nothing that says they now have indipendance from Spain. Where are these vote results coming from? Confused.com They have declared it, but that doesn't make it so. To prove it, I am now officially declaring Cambridge to be an independent country." .......Congratulations.....Does that mean i can come and whack you in the face with a solid baton. | |||
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"Right I'm going through all the news websites and can see nothing that says they now have indipendance from Spain. Where are these vote results coming from? Confused.com They have declared it, but that doesn't make it so. To prove it, I am now officially declaring Cambridge to be an independent country........Congratulations.....Does that mean i can come and whack you in the face with a solid baton." Yes if its legal and a legitimate use of force.Whack away . | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 27/10/17 15:58:07]" Rajoy is every inch playing the part of dictator ... refusing to engage in any dialogue whatsoever over the last month in order to ensure he can implement his plan to inflict marshall law on catalunya just like in "the good ol' days" when uncle fransisco went on a murderous rampage across the peninsula ... rajoy's an utter bellend | |||
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"Right I'm going through all the news websites and can see nothing that says they now have indipendance from Spain. Where are these vote results coming from? Confused.com They have declared it, but that doesn't make it so. To prove it, I am now officially declaring Cambridge to be an independent country........Congratulations.....Does that mean i can come and whack you in the face with a solid baton. Yes if its legal and a legitimate use of force.Whack away . "It's like Northern Ireland training. And yes the use of legitimate force is perfectly legal. | |||
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"Right I'm going through all the news websites and can see nothing that says they now have indipendance from Spain. Where are these vote results coming from? Confused.com They have declared it, but that doesn't make it so. To prove it, I am now officially declaring Cambridge to be an independent country. Right with that kind of logic are you saying you do not recognize the USA as a country ? Yes i know your going to point out a war took place yes i know this sadly that happened but the USA used UDI so do you not recognize them as a country ? " The southern states declared independence from the Union. Do you recognise them as an independent country and not part of the US? | |||
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"Right I'm going through all the news websites and can see nothing that says they now have indipendance from Spain. Where are these vote results coming from? Confused.com They have declared it, but that doesn't make it so. To prove it, I am now officially declaring Cambridge to be an independent country........Congratulations.....Does that mean i can come and whack you in the face with a solid baton." Well what are you going to do, let Cambridge leave, or make us stay? | |||
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"So are you cheering on the break up of a country and all the. Ha is that that will entail? Just declaring something doesn't make it so does it? What proportion of the population does not want "independence"? If you are free to speak your own language, follow your own customs, have a functioning judiciary and education and health system and have all the same rights and responsibilities and opportunities as everyone else then what is the point? Is the selfish desire to keep more money for yourself rather than share what self-determination is all about?" You really don't like the concept of democracy at all do you.  | |||
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"So are you cheering on the break up of a country and all the. Ha is that that will entail? Just declaring something doesn't make it so does it? What proportion of the population does not want "independence"? If you are free to speak your own language, follow your own customs, have a functioning judiciary and education and health system and have all the same rights and responsibilities and opportunities as everyone else then what is the point? Is the selfish desire to keep more money for yourself rather than share what self-determination is all about? You really don't like the concept of democracy at all do you. "Do you ? Do you accept the Scottish government have a mandate from the people of Scotland to have a independence referendum when the final brexit deal is known ? | |||
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"Right I'm going through all the news websites and can see nothing that says they now have indipendance from Spain. Where are these vote results coming from? Confused.com They have declared it, but that doesn't make it so. To prove it, I am now officially declaring Cambridge to be an independent country........Congratulations.....Does that mean i can come and whack you in the face with a solid baton. Well what are you going to do, let Cambridge leave, or make us stay? " ......Power to people...not centralized tyranny. | |||
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"And we are back to Scotland... " Good , good you noticed watch out for Centaur double standards on democracy want independence for the UK from the EU Happy to accept Catalan independence from Spain But watch him say he doesnt respect the Scottish mandate to have an independence referendum when the brexit deal is known He will try and say Scotland already has had one and that it can never have another referendum which he must know democracy is not a event things change that you have to look at the question again that real democracy | |||
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"And we are back to Scotland... " Do you think its time to set up a Scottish Politics forum? | |||
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"So are you cheering on the break up of a country and all the. Ha is that that will entail? Just declaring something doesn't make it so does it? What proportion of the population does not want "independence"? If you are free to speak your own language, follow your own customs, have a functioning judiciary and education and health system and have all the same rights and responsibilities and opportunities as everyone else then what is the point? Is the selfish desire to keep more money for yourself rather than share what self-determination is all about? You really don't like the concept of democracy at all do you.
Do you ?
Do you accept the Scottish government have a mandate from the people of Scotland to have a independence referendum when the final brexit deal is known ? "We had this same discussion the other day and I gave you your answer. You already had a Scottish referendum just a couple of years ago which the then leader of the SNP Alex Salmond said "would settle the issue for a generation". You lost so respect democracy and accept the Scottish people voted to remain part of the UK. It seems you have no respect for democracy because you can't accept that you lost the Scottish indy ref, and you certainly don't respect the fair and democratic result of the EU referendum in which the UK voted to Leave the EU. | |||
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"I think comparing Scotland to Catalonia is two very different things. What might be good for one is not necessarily good for all. Throwing Scotland into another referendum when we don't know what's happening with brexit yet is crazy. " No one is asking for a Scottish referendum just now. Scotland does have a mandate for a referendum though for when the final brexit deal is known So once we know what brexit does mean the Scottish voters will get to decide if they agree to it or would rather independence. | |||
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"And we are back to Scotland... Good , good you noticed watch out for Centaur double standards on democracy want independence for the UK from the EU Happy to accept Catalan independence from Spain But watch him say he doesnt respect the Scottish mandate to have an independence referendum when the brexit deal is known He will try and say Scotland already has had one and that it can never have another referendum which he must know democracy is not a event things change that you have to look at the question again that real democracy" Has "a generation" passed since you had the last one? The then leader of the SNP Alex Salmond said it would settle the issue in Scotland for a generation! No generation has passed in Scotland since you had the last one by any stretch of the imagination! | |||
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"So are you cheering on the break up of a country and all the. Ha is that that will entail? Just declaring something doesn't make it so does it? What proportion of the population does not want "independence"? If you are free to speak your own language, follow your own customs, have a functioning judiciary and education and health system and have all the same rights and responsibilities and opportunities as everyone else then what is the point? Is the selfish desire to keep more money for yourself rather than share what self-determination is all about? You really don't like the concept of democracy at all do you.
Do you ?
Do you accept the Scottish government have a mandate from the people of Scotland to have a independence referendum when the final brexit deal is known ?
We had this same discussion the other day and I gave you your answer. You already had a Scottish referendum just a couple of years ago which the then leader of the SNP Alex Salmond said "would settle the issue for a generation". You lost so respect democracy and accept the Scottish people voted to remain part of the UK. It seems you have no respect for democracy because you can't accept that you lost the Scottish indy ref, and you certainly don't respect the fair and democratic result of the EU referendum in which the UK voted to Leave the EU. "Told you double standards from Centaur lol Democracy is not an event it didnt just end in 2014 you know things can change and people shouldnt be denied their right to change their minds. I get it Centaur your just afraid Scotland may want to leave your UK brexit lol | |||
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"So are you cheering on the break up of a country and all the. Ha is that that will entail? Just declaring something doesn't make it so does it? What proportion of the population does not want "independence"? If you are free to speak your own language, follow your own customs, have a functioning judiciary and education and health system and have all the same rights and responsibilities and opportunities as everyone else then what is the point? Is the selfish desire to keep more money for yourself rather than share what self-determination is all about? You really don't like the concept of democracy at all do you.
Do you ?
Do you accept the Scottish government have a mandate from the people of Scotland to have a independence referendum when the final brexit deal is known ?
We had this same discussion the other day and I gave you your answer. You already had a Scottish referendum just a couple of years ago which the then leader of the SNP Alex Salmond said "would settle the issue for a generation". You lost so respect democracy and accept the Scottish people voted to remain part of the UK. It seems you have no respect for democracy because you can't accept that you lost the Scottish indy ref, and you certainly don't respect the fair and democratic result of the EU referendum in which the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Told you double standards from Centaur lol
Democracy is not an event it didnt just end in 2014 you know things can change and people shouldnt be denied their right to change their minds. I get it Centaur your just afraid Scotland may want to leave your UK brexit lol
"The only double standards on display here are your own. You preach about democracy and say the Catalonian vote must be respected but you don't accept the fair and democratic (and legal) result of the Scottish indy ref or the EU referendum. | |||
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"So are you cheering on the break up of a country and all the. Ha is that that will entail? Just declaring something doesn't make it so does it? What proportion of the population does not want "independence"? If you are free to speak your own language, follow your own customs, have a functioning judiciary and education and health system and have all the same rights and responsibilities and opportunities as everyone else then what is the point? Is the selfish desire to keep more money for yourself rather than share what self-determination is all about? You really don't like the concept of democracy at all do you.
Do you ?
Do you accept the Scottish government have a mandate from the people of Scotland to have a independence referendum when the final brexit deal is known ?
We had this same discussion the other day and I gave you your answer. You already had a Scottish referendum just a couple of years ago which the then leader of the SNP Alex Salmond said "would settle the issue for a generation". You lost so respect democracy and accept the Scottish people voted to remain part of the UK. It seems you have no respect for democracy because you can't accept that you lost the Scottish indy ref, and you certainly don't respect the fair and democratic result of the EU referendum in which the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Told you double standards from Centaur lol
Democracy is not an event it didnt just end in 2014 you know things can change and people shouldnt be denied their right to change their minds. I get it Centaur your just afraid Scotland may want to leave your UK brexit lol
The only double standards on display here are your own. You preach about democracy and say the Catalonian vote must be respected but you don't accept the fair and democratic (and legal) result of the Scottish indy ref or the EU referendum. "LMAO Again it was a no vote in the Scottish independence referendum in 2014 i respect that Scotland is not independent right now Scotland is in the UK so the 2014 referendum has been respected As for the Eu Scotland never agreed to have an EU referendum that was foreced on us with government we didnt vote for and we didnt vote to leave the EU What have you got to fear by allowing a Scottish referendum on the final brexit deal ? The Scottish have a mandate from the people correct ? Again democracy is not an event 2015 the Tories got a majority 2017 they called a snap election and lost their majority as democracy spoke and people changed their minds to not give the Tories a majority People are allowed to change their minds you know | |||
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"Not good news, and so many people here cheering on the destabilisation of Spain without a single thought to the implications. Maybe all you Catalonian cheerleaders would like to consider this. Firstly, the government in Madrid now have no option but to deploy troops to suppress a rebellion. This will inevitably lead to violence and probably loss of life. At the same time because of the need to redeploy resources to deal with the UDI in Catalonia Spain will be forced to weaken its southern border defences thus opening up a new route for North African fundamentalist jihadists to enter Europe. Of course, with immediate effect VW's Spanish factories (all in Catalonia) are no longer in the EU and are subject to EU import restrictions. So no more Spanish VW's or VW parts. Of course that is a large slice of the Catalonian economies foundation. The other part being tourism, now I wonder how that will fare? Whose for a civil war city break? although you may have problems finding an airline willing to fly you into what may quickly become a war zone. I honestly believe that people fail to give any thought to the consequences of actions. "None of that needs to happen. If the Spanish government wanted to keep the peace and avoid violence they should grant Catalonia a full, fair and legally binding referendum for Catalonia on the issue of independence. They should then let democracy take its course and then respect the result. As for the other guff about jihadists, VW and commercial airlines, yet more scaremongering right out of the project fear handbook, for a hard left Labour supporter you certainly seem to have learned lessons from George Osborne and David Cameron well. | |||
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"As for the other guff about jihadists, VW and commercial airlines, yet more scaremongering right out of the project fear handbook, for a hard left Labour supporter you certainly seem to have learned lessons from George Osborne and David Cameron well. " No guff here, just someone who understands how conflicts grow and is open-minded enough to be able to look at what happens everywhere when sectarianism turns into open insurrection. But you Centaur, like all nationalists refuse to acknowledge the simple truth of cause and effect regardless of how many times you see the results of sectarian nationalism. Somehow your kind (and in this you and kinky are two peas in a pod) always seem to think it will be different this time and when it is not you claim there is no way you or anyone else could have predicted the same results. I am reminded of Wellington at Waterloo: I see they are coming on in the same old way, and I shall kill them in the same old way. | |||
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"War So what would you like to happen now Catalonia? Surely you dont want Spanish police to move in a beat people up? My opinion its not upto us we dont live in Catalonia thats Catalan people and they did vote for independence. Now you may argue that it was illegal but Spain had plenty of time to change the rules and allow a binding referendum. If the Spanish government honestly believe the majority dont want Catalan independence it was upto them to prove it 2 million went out and voted even with fear of being beaten up for what voting fucking hell what the hell has this world turned into. " I have stated before I wish for a legal Catalonian vote not a vote solely by sepratists. | |||
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"War So what would you like to happen now Catalonia? Surely you dont want Spanish police to move in a beat people up? My opinion its not upto us we dont live in Catalonia thats Catalan people and they did vote for independence. Now you may argue that it was illegal but Spain had plenty of time to change the rules and allow a binding referendum. If the Spanish government honestly believe the majority dont want Catalan independence it was upto them to prove it 2 million went out and voted even with fear of being beaten up for what voting fucking hell what the hell has this world turned into. I have stated before I wish for a legal Catalonian vote not a vote solely by sepratists." Part of the problem is that some 80% of the Catalonian population are not Catalonian, they do not even speak the same language. Catalans speak Catalan the immigrants speak Castilian. | |||
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"The British Government are refusing to recognise Catalonia. Oops." And so it starts... | |||
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"The British Government are refusing to recognise Catalonia. Oops. And so it starts... "Do you think China or Russia are keen on this sort of thing? | |||
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"The British Government are refusing to recognise Catalonia. Oops." Wrong England are refusing to recogising Catalonia is an independent state Britain is not a country Scotland and Wales already have said ''We respect position...people of Catalonia must have ability to determine own future'' The Tories to do not speak for Scotland or Wales or N.Ireland England voted Tory so thats who they are speaking for I will take a guess on the reasons why the Tories are saying they dont recogise Catalonia in fear it could lead to Scotland waving goodbye lol The Tories can fuck off they do not speak for me or Scotland or Wales | |||
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"The British Government are refusing to recognise Catalonia. Oops. Wrong England are refusing to recogising Catalonia is an independent state Britain is not a country Scotland and Wales already have said ''We respect position...people of Catalonia must have ability to determine own future'' The Tories to do not speak for Scotland or Wales or N.Ireland England voted Tory so thats who they are speaking for I will take a guess on the reasons why the Tories are saying they dont recogise Catalonia in fear it could lead to Scotland waving goodbye lol The Tories can fuck off they do not speak for me or Scotland or Wales " I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it: UK 'won't recognise' Catalan independence - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41783238 | |||
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"The British Government are refusing to recognise Catalonia. Oops. Wrong England are refusing to recogising Catalonia is an independent state Britain is not a country Scotland and Wales already have said ''We respect position...people of Catalonia must have ability to determine own future'' The Tories to do not speak for Scotland or Wales or N.Ireland England voted Tory so thats who they are speaking for I will take a guess on the reasons why the Tories are saying they dont recogise Catalonia in fear it could lead to Scotland waving goodbye lol The Tories can fuck off they do not speak for me or Scotland or Wales " No the British government that represents every part of the UK will not recognise Catalonia because it was an illegal vote and was against the Spanish constitution! !!! | |||
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"The British Government are refusing to recognise Catalonia. Oops. Wrong England are refusing to recogising Catalonia is an independent state Britain is not a country Scotland and Wales already have said ''We respect position...people of Catalonia must have ability to determine own future'' The Tories to do not speak for Scotland or Wales or N.Ireland England voted Tory so thats who they are speaking for I will take a guess on the reasons why the Tories are saying they dont recogise Catalonia in fear it could lead to Scotland waving goodbye lol The Tories can fuck off they do not speak for me or Scotland or Wales I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it: UK 'won't recognise' Catalan independence - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41783238" Again the Tories are speaking for England only Britain is not a country the UK is not a country Britain is a island and the UK is a union of 4 countries England sadly voted Tory so the Tories sadly speak for England only Scotland , Wales and N.Ireland didnt vote Tory so they do not speak for us The Tories can get fucked they do not speak for me or Scotland or Wales and N.Ireland they only speak for England Imagine honestly defending dictators but hey no real fucking difference with Rajoy's party and Tories both scumbags that think the elite rule | |||
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"The British Government are refusing to recognise Catalonia. Oops. Wrong England are refusing to recogising Catalonia is an independent state Britain is not a country Scotland and Wales already have said ''We respect position...people of Catalonia must have ability to determine own future'' The Tories to do not speak for Scotland or Wales or N.Ireland England voted Tory so thats who they are speaking for I will take a guess on the reasons why the Tories are saying they dont recogise Catalonia in fear it could lead to Scotland waving goodbye lol The Tories can fuck off they do not speak for me or Scotland or Wales No the British government that represents every part of the UK will not recognise Catalonia because it was an illegal vote and was against the Spanish constitution! !!!" No they dont when did Scotland vote Tory eh ? You should be ashamed wanting the Tories speaking for Scotland | |||
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"The British Government are refusing to recognise Catalonia. Oops. Wrong England are refusing to recogising Catalonia is an independent state Britain is not a country Scotland and Wales already have said ''We respect position...people of Catalonia must have ability to determine own future'' The Tories to do not speak for Scotland or Wales or N.Ireland England voted Tory so thats who they are speaking for I will take a guess on the reasons why the Tories are saying they dont recogise Catalonia in fear it could lead to Scotland waving goodbye lol The Tories can fuck off they do not speak for me or Scotland or Wales I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it: UK 'won't recognise' Catalan independence - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41783238 Again the Tories are speaking for England only Britain is not a country the UK is not a country Britain is a island and the UK is a union of 4 countries England sadly voted Tory so the Tories sadly speak for England only Scotland , Wales and N.Ireland didnt vote Tory so they do not speak for us The Tories can get fucked they do not speak for me or Scotland or Wales and N.Ireland they only speak for England Imagine honestly defending dictators but hey no real fucking difference with Rajoy's party and Tories both scumbags that think the elite rule " Its ridiculous to suggest that there isn't a UK government. Do you remember when I started that you don't understand how politics work? This is a perfect example. | |||
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"The British Government are refusing to recognise Catalonia. Oops. Wrong England are refusing to recogising Catalonia is an independent state Britain is not a country Scotland and Wales already have said ''We respect position...people of Catalonia must have ability to determine own future'' The Tories to do not speak for Scotland or Wales or N.Ireland England voted Tory so thats who they are speaking for I will take a guess on the reasons why the Tories are saying they dont recogise Catalonia in fear it could lead to Scotland waving goodbye lol The Tories can fuck off they do not speak for me or Scotland or Wales I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it: UK 'won't recognise' Catalan independence - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41783238 Again the Tories are speaking for England only Britain is not a country the UK is not a country Britain is a island and the UK is a union of 4 countries England sadly voted Tory so the Tories sadly speak for England only Scotland , Wales and N.Ireland didnt vote Tory so they do not speak for us The Tories can get fucked they do not speak for me or Scotland or Wales and N.Ireland they only speak for England Imagine honestly defending dictators but hey no real fucking difference with Rajoy's party and Tories both scumbags that think the elite rule Its ridiculous to suggest that there isn't a UK government. Do you remember when I started that you don't understand how politics work? This is a perfect example. "Simply tell me when did Scotland vote for the Tories ? There is your problem why the UK is not united 3 countries in the UK didnt vote for the Tories only one did yet somehow people think its perfectly normal for a countries governement to rule over 3 countries that didnt vote for the Tories The UK is just as fucked up as Spain is all about money and the elite dickheads and their gravy train | |||
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" No they dont when did Scotland vote Tory eh ? " Actually they have, in 1955 where they won over 50% of the vote. No other party has been able to do that in a general election. Im surprised that a student of politics like you didn't know that, shame on you. | |||
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" Its ridiculous to suggest that there isn't a UK government. Do you remember when I started that you don't understand how politics work? This is a perfect example. "says the person who thinks the UK is a single country | |||
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" No they dont when did Scotland vote Tory eh ? Actually they have, in 1955 where they won over 50% of the vote. No other party has been able to do that in a general election. Im surprised that a student of politics like you didn't know that, shame on you. " Lol 1955 Ok i will try again when did Scotland for the Tories in the last 20 , 30 ,40 years ? Did Scotland vote for the Tories in the UK election in 2017 ? The Tories have no mandate in Scotland and they do not speak for Scotland | |||
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"The British Government are refusing to recognise Catalonia. Oops. And so it starts...
Do you think China or Russia are keen on this sort of thing? "Russia will be loving it and will do everything it can to fan the flames. After all Putin's agenda is clear, he is looking to weaken and destabilise NATO and the West, and clearly this is a gilt-edged opportunity. China will not be happy, they require the West to be stable and continue to expand in order to buy their products, but they will not interfere because Spain is outside what they consider their 'sphere of influence' unless Chinese interests (exports) are attacked on the high seas. That is how I read the situation. Of course Trump will do the opposite of what ever he is advised to do because he is very clever and nobody knows things more than him (unless he gets orders from Putin). So expect him to inflame the situation and blame Obama and previous Presidents. | |||
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" No they dont when did Scotland vote Tory eh ? Actually they have, in 1955 where they won over 50% of the vote. No other party has been able to do that in a general election. Im surprised that a student of politics like you didn't know that, shame on you. " Oh and 2015 UK election the SNP won 50% So you might wanna rethink that lol | |||
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"You asked a question, I answered. And you didnt read my reply carefully , did you? I wrote "over 50%", not just a measly 50%. Please pay attention, details matter. And may I add, you never put any time limitation in your original question. "Ok you want me to be clear on time limitation Did Scotland vote for the Tories in 2017 ? | |||
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Proof that they are dwindling and on the wane. | |||
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"No mate, I wont play your daft game. You asked a question, I answered it and highlighted your ignorance. Thats enough for now. I do know that the snp lost 21 seats and 476,867 votes in the 2017 General Election, how very careless of them.
Proof that they are dwindling and on the wane."Ah right now gone silent not willing to admit Scotland didnt vote Tory in 2017 ? Yes SNP lost 21 seats am willing to admit that But still managed to win 35 Scottish seats out of 59 do the math and that is the majority and you know how much unionists love talking about majorities eh lol You focus on the SNP losing 21 seats in 2017 but the real question is even with the SNP losing 21 seats the unionist branch offices got fuck all near the SNP majority that is how piss poor they are. But hey you focus on the SNP losing 21 seats if it helps lol Where you should be really asking yourself if the people think the SNP are that bad in Scotland why is it none of the unionist branches can get anywhere near them to overtake their majority hehehehe So in all like i said the Tories do not speak for Scotland!!! | |||
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"Latest support for Catalonia. • Maduro • Leanne Wood • Scot Gov (even though Foreign policy isnt devolved) • Farage • Assange • Gerry Adams • Owen Jones • Kim Jong-un Parody Account on Twitter You are in good company. "Its Friday give people and parilaments time you will see more like Finland and Slovenia give their support Its strange you want Boris Johnson speaking on Scotland's behalf lol | |||
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"Just heard, Sweden will not recognise Catalonia, Margot Wallström, Minister for Foreign Affairs, says to Swedish Radio. Your doing great mate. "Like i said give parilaments time its the weekend I noticed you moved quickly away from answering do you want Boris Johnson speaking on Scotland's behalf ? When did Scotland vote for the Tories again in 2017 ? lol | |||
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"Latest support for Catalonia. • Maduro • Leanne Wood • Scot Gov (even though Foreign policy isnt devolved) • Farage • Assange • Gerry Adams • Owen Jones • Kim Jong-un Parody Account on Twitter You are in good company. "Did CNN report on the Kim Jong-un Parody account on Twitter? Only ask because a CNN contributor reported on a story from a PARODY Reuters twitter account last year and tried to pass it off as a real genuine story. | |||
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"Just heard, Sweden will not recognise Catalonia, Margot Wallström, Minister for Foreign Affairs, says to Swedish Radio. Your doing great mate. "Neither do France, Germany the EU or the US. | |||
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"Oh yes, let you control the conversation, your so fair minded and have impeccable etiquette in a debate. Heres your heros latest thoughts, Guy Verhofstadt? "A fake independence” is what I call it and I don’t recognize it. "Who started the thread again ? LOL As for Guy Verhofstadt do i have to agree with 100% of the time ? Nope i do not lol | |||
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"A wee bit of bad news for OP Nicola tweeted today the Scottish government does not recognise Catalonia as a free state "Oh man your gonna feel silly in a min lol Let me guess its from the Nicola Sturgoen twitter account ? See your mistake ? Nicola Sturgeon offical account look it up not the fake one lol | |||
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"Going to be pretty amusing watching the weasel words of the SNP trying to imply in a roundabout way that they recognise Catalan independence but not actually going as far as recognising Catalonia as an independent state "Bump. I'll stand by this post I made earlier.  | |||
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"A wee bit of bad news for OP Nicola tweeted today the Scottish government does not recognise Catalonia as a free state
Oh man your gonna feel silly in a min lol
Let me guess its from the Nicola Sturgoen twitter account ? See your mistake ?
Nicola Sturgeon offical account look it up not the fake one lol "but the difference between you and me is I can admit when I am wrong !!!! | |||
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"Can anyone who backs the rule of law argument please say how the Catalan people are ever to exercise their right to self determination?" What percentage of the population of Catalonia voted for independence? Was the vote legal? Who benefits from independence and how? | |||
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"Can anyone who backs the rule of law argument please say how the Catalan people are ever to exercise their right to self determination? What percentage of the population of Catalonia voted for independence? Was the vote legal? Who benefits from independence and how?" Can anyone who backs the rule of law argument please say how the Catalan people are ever to exercise their right to true self determination? | |||
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"Can anyone who backs the rule of law argument please say how the Catalan people are ever to exercise their right to self determination? What percentage of the population of Catalonia voted for independence? Was the vote legal? Who benefits from independence and how? Can anyone who backs the rule of law argument please say how the Catalan people are ever to exercise their right to true self determination?" when rajoy addresses the crux of the problem, which was when the spanish government ignored the legal referendum in 2006 and decided in 2010 to alter terms of the constitutionally agreed autonomy for the region ... rajoy needs to come to the table to discuss why the legal constitutional change was reversed | |||
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"Well they (Catalonia) did vote for a constitution that forbids it. Over 90% in favour I recall. They made their bed so they should lie in it. Many other countries have similar indivisible clauses in their constitution. You might not like but that's the way it is. ?? " who are you replying to? | |||
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"Can anyone who backs the rule of law argument please say how the Catalan people are ever to exercise their right to self determination? What percentage of the population of Catalonia voted for independence? Was the vote legal? Who benefits from independence and how? Can anyone who backs the rule of law argument please say how the Catalan people are ever to exercise their right to true self determination?" What percentage of the population of Catalonia voted for independence? Was the vote legal? Who benefits from independence and how? Mwah! | |||
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"Right I'm going through all the news websites and can see nothing that says they now have indipendance from Spain. Where are these vote results coming from? Confused.com They have declared it, but that doesn't make it so. To prove it, I am now officially declaring Cambridge to be an independent country." I’m also declaring Newcastle to be independent, I AM THE NEW KING OF THE NORTH  | |||
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"Oh yes, let you control the conversation, your so fair minded and have impeccable etiquette in a debate. Heres your heros latest thoughts, Guy Verhofstadt? "A fake independence” is what I call it and I don’t recognize it. "Well EU President Jean Claude Juncker certainly seems to be worried. He said earlier tonight just after the independence vote in the Catalan Parliament that "the result exposed more cracks in the EU". I think his battered gin bottle will be taking another hammering tonight as he drowns his sorrows, his failing EU project is coming apart at the seams. | |||
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"Right I'm going through all the news websites and can see nothing that says they now have indipendance from Spain. Where are these vote results coming from? Confused.com They have declared it, but that doesn't make it so. To prove it, I am now officially declaring Cambridge to be an independent country. I’m also declaring Newcastle to be independent, I AM THE NEW KING OF THE NORTH "I'm declaring Kent to be independent...and keeping all the toll money from the Dartford Tunnel | |||
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"constitutional change was put to the vote in 2006 and the vote legally implemented change .... then that change was illegally reversed in 2010 ... end of" Was it deemed illegal by the courts? | |||
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"Can anyone who backs the rule of law argument please say how the Catalan people are ever to exercise their right to self determination?" So you are implying that the rule of law should only apply if you agree with the law and you should get to make that choice. Well what is good for you is good for me... Supply me with your address and Ill arrange for someone to kick down your door, beat you up and take all your stuff... Do you see a problem with your premise? I know I do! The rule of law must apply to all. Especially those who feel that they have a right to stand above it! | |||
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"Can anyone who backs the rule of law argument please say how the Catalan people are ever to exercise their right to self determination? What percentage of the population of Catalonia voted for independence? Was the vote legal? Who benefits from independence and how? Can anyone who backs the rule of law argument please say how the Catalan people are ever to exercise their right to true self determination?" What they could have done is given a mandate to the Junts pel Sí in the 2015 election...but the campaign didn't achieve an absolute majority, so if every pro cessation party combined couldn't win a majority where do you get this appetite for Catalan independence from? | |||
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"Can anyone who backs the rule of law argument please say how the Catalan people are ever to exercise their right to self determination? What percentage of the population of Catalonia voted for independence? Was the vote legal? Who benefits from independence and how? Can anyone who backs the rule of law argument please say how the Catalan people are ever to exercise their right to true self determination? What percentage of the population of Catalonia voted for independence? Was the vote legal? Who benefits from independence and how? Mwah!" Those 3 questions are really a bit pointless and not really valid to the debate, anyhow i'll play along.... 1. The only percentage of the population of Catalonia that matters is the percentage that bothered to go out and vote in the referendum. Those that didn't vote really can't complain about the result they had the opportunity to vote but chose not to! 2. Was the vote legal? No it wasn't but that doesn't make it any less valid. The EU referendum here in the UK was not legally binding but the UK government (and Parliament as a whole) recognise the result and are now in the process of implementing the result. Votes don't have to be legal to be recognised! 3. Who benefits from independence and how? Clearly the Catalan people feel they will benefit from it and that's why they voted for it. For one they will be freeing themselves from a totalitarian and authoritarian Spanish regime who uses violence and intimidation to try to subdue the Catalan people who only want a peaceful and Democratic vote to determine their own future. 2nd they feel they will benefit financially because Catalonia is one of the richest parts of Spain and they are currently getting a raw shitty deal from the Spanish regime in Madrid. | |||
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"constitutional change was put to the vote in 2006 and the vote legally implemented change .... then that change was illegally reversed in 2010 ... end of" "where do you get this appetite for Catalan independence from?" the unconstitutional reversal of the legally binding referendum in 2006 where the constitution was legally changed to allow for autonomy. | |||
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