FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Will she stay or will she go?
Will she stay or will she go?
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"I've just been watching the Daily Politics and from what I could gather yes there's obvious disparity in UK/EU opinion in where deals should be agreed, but ore importantly and something that hadn't crossed my mind was that our Lab/Con/Lib/UKip/Green MEP's block negotiations in going forward. An example would be the White House and Congress. The White House aims to repeal Obamacare - Congress blocks it despite it being voted for - The White House cannot then repeal it. MEP's act in a similar way. If they don't like the end deal of any part of the talks they simply block it from going forward asking for greater reform. This in tern looks like the Govt isn't making progress, extends or halts the talks from moving to the next section even when the UK/EU could have reached agreement. I wonder if this is a way to engender doubt among the public and gain a softer brexit, no brexit at all, have May out of Govt or stay in the EU as it is ground to a halt? " That is not how it works, only the MEPs of the remaining countries get to vote on the final deal. As I understand it although they can still address the European Parliament they lost the right to vote when article 50 was triggered. But I am certain article 50 specifically bans the UK from taking part in any discussions or votes regarding our exit from the EU. | |||
"I've just been watching the Daily Politics and from what I could gather yes there's obvious disparity in UK/EU opinion in where deals should be agreed, but ore importantly and something that hadn't crossed my mind was that our Lab/Con/Lib/UKip/Green MEP's block negotiations in going forward. An example would be the White House and Congress. The White House aims to repeal Obamacare - Congress blocks it despite it being voted for - The White House cannot then repeal it. MEP's act in a similar way. If they don't like the end deal of any part of the talks they simply block it from going forward asking for greater reform. This in tern looks like the Govt isn't making progress, extends or halts the talks from moving to the next section even when the UK/EU could have reached agreement. I wonder if this is a way to engender doubt among the public and gain a softer brexit, no brexit at all, have May out of Govt or stay in the EU as it is ground to a halt? " But British MEPs only make up a small proportion of the European Parliament. | |||
"I've just been watching the Daily Politics and from what I could gather yes there's obvious disparity in UK/EU opinion in where deals should be agreed, but ore importantly and something that hadn't crossed my mind was that our Lab/Con/Lib/UKip/Green MEP's block negotiations in going forward. An example would be the White House and Congress. The White House aims to repeal Obamacare - Congress blocks it despite it being voted for - The White House cannot then repeal it. MEP's act in a similar way. If they don't like the end deal of any part of the talks they simply block it from going forward asking for greater reform. This in tern looks like the Govt isn't making progress, extends or halts the talks from moving to the next section even when the UK/EU could have reached agreement. I wonder if this is a way to engender doubt among the public and gain a softer brexit, no brexit at all, have May out of Govt or stay in the EU as it is ground to a halt? That is not how it works, only the MEPs of the remaining countries get to vote on the final deal. As I understand it although they can still address the European Parliament they lost the right to vote when article 50 was triggered. But I am certain article 50 specifically bans the UK from taking part in any discussions or votes regarding our exit from the EU. " From what was being said, if they don't like what is being agreed to, say; EU nationals rights in UK or UK v's EU Farming subsidies, they vote out the UK half stating it's not up to scratch or needs clarity or whatever. We are still in the EU, we haven't left yet, we are in the process of leaving, that is why we have MEP's until 2019 but the point is these (our) MEP's if they don't like what the Govt is negotiating - vote it out, from what was being said. | |||
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"I've just been watching the Daily Politics and from what I could gather yes there's obvious disparity in UK/EU opinion in where deals should be agreed, but ore importantly and something that hadn't crossed my mind was that our Lab/Con/Lib/UKip/Green MEP's block negotiations in going forward. An example would be the White House and Congress. The White House aims to repeal Obamacare - Congress blocks it despite it being voted for - The White House cannot then repeal it. MEP's act in a similar way. If they don't like the end deal of any part of the talks they simply block it from going forward asking for greater reform. This in tern looks like the Govt isn't making progress, extends or halts the talks from moving to the next section even when the UK/EU could have reached agreement. I wonder if this is a way to engender doubt among the public and gain a softer brexit, no brexit at all, have May out of Govt or stay in the EU as it is ground to a halt? That is not how it works, only the MEPs of the remaining countries get to vote on the final deal. As I understand it although they can still address the European Parliament they lost the right to vote when article 50 was triggered. But I am certain article 50 specifically bans the UK from taking part in any discussions or votes regarding our exit from the EU. From what was being said, if they don't like what is being agreed to, say; EU nationals rights in UK or UK v's EU Farming subsidies, they vote out the UK half stating it's not up to scratch or needs clarity or whatever. We are still in the EU, we haven't left yet, we are in the process of leaving, that is why we have MEP's until 2019 but the point is these (our) MEP's if they don't like what the Govt is negotiating - vote it out, from what was being said. " Sorry, my mistake. It is quite a while since I last read article 50.., See below: 1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements. 2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament. 3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period. 4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it. A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. 5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49. ... Note: 50/2 makes it clear that unless the other 27 countries unanimously agree we are out at midnight on 28/3/19. And that even if the European council and Council of Ministers agree unanimously to extend our leaving period then that decision must still get a qualified majority in the European parliament . And 50/4 bans the UK from taking any part in the discussions above. Now I really don't care how any political pundit wants to spin things the reality is we are out of the EU on the stroke of midnight 28/3/19. Maybe you would like to consider this at 00.01 on the 1/4/19 (April Fools Day) we leave the EU. Says a lot that May deliberately chose that (not so) auspicious time and date to remove us from the EU... Between May's choice of day and BoJo's prediction of our leaving being a Titanic success do you think there may be a little bit of a tell for us all to spot if we actually open our eyes and look? | |||
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"Will May still be PM by Christmas?" Yes probably till negotiations finish | |||
"And what happened to March 29/30 and 31st? The date was deliberately chosen to avoid leaving at 00.01 on 1st April 2019." Sorry, I never count weekends (they are playtime) so not being fully accurate again... We leave at midnight on Friday 29/3/19 and the next working day is Monday 1/4/19 so our first working day out of the EU is April Fools Day... | |||
"And what happened to March 29/30 and 31st? The date was deliberately chosen to avoid leaving at 00.01 on 1st April 2019. Sorry, I never count weekends (they are playtime) so not being fully accurate again... We leave at midnight on Friday 29/3/19 and the next working day is Monday 1/4/19 so our first working day out of the EU is April Fools Day..." Jesus, you couldn't make this shit up! | |||
"Jesus, you couldn't make this shit up! " Is that me, or the choice of day we leave and what it actually means when it comes to the international trading markets? (Which we all know are never driven by superstitions or omens.)  | |||
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"We also need to consider The Maybot’s own state of mind in all of this. One can only presume that after the calamitous election and the ongoing farcical Brexit negotiations she must have been feeling the stress. Add to that her speech and the obvious knowledge of sharks circling - one can only imagine where her head is at the moment. Dunno about you guys, but in a former life I found myself in an intolerable (for me) working environment which impacted by production, my attitude and my ability to be even remotely focused, let alone fully focused. It is surely not beyond the realms of possibility that The Maybot may suddenly have an epiphany moment and step down for the sake of both her own sanity and the well being of the country. " She will get no sympathy from me. Remember all her snide remarks and and digs at Jeremy Corybn last year and the year before when she and her cronies when the Blairites were trying to remove JC? What goes round comes round, and we get to see our strong and stable PM crumble and collapse. And good riddance I say! | |||
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"We also need to consider The Maybot’s own state of mind in all of this. One can only presume that after the calamitous election and the ongoing farcical Brexit negotiations she must have been feeling the stress. Add to that her speech and the obvious knowledge of sharks circling - one can only imagine where her head is at the moment. Dunno about you guys, but in a former life I found myself in an intolerable (for me) working environment which impacted by production, my attitude and my ability to be even remotely focused, let alone fully focused. It is surely not beyond the realms of possibility that The Maybot may suddenly have an epiphany moment and step down for the sake of both her own sanity and the well being of the country. She will get no sympathy from me. Remember all her snide remarks and and digs at Jeremy Corybn last year and the year before when she and her cronies when the Blairites were trying to remove JC? What goes round comes round, and we get to see our strong and stable PM crumble and collapse. And good riddance I say!" For someone who has an interest in Article 50 and likely politics, tying everybody wanting JC out including his party, to wanting the PM out during the most important talks of our lifetime is remarkably short sighted. Whether you don't like her, their policies or brexit, having a collapse of Government (for spites sake), would cause untold damage to the UK, not least would simply put another caretaker in that wasn't voted for. I think she called the GE as she needed to know she wasn't the above caretaker. Like brexit though, nobody expected JC to gain as many votes as he did, they expected enough to gain a decent opposition not enough to be put into Govt. May though, is not to blame for Brexit. It is happening whether people like it or not whichever party leads it. Whoever presides over it isn't going to be liked and it'll neither have a good enough outcome. People will always think they could do better but the real issue is the shock of coming out of the EU that hasn't been felt yet. | |||
"For someone who has an interest in Article 50 and likely politics, tying everybody wanting JC out including his party, to wanting the PM out during the most important talks of our lifetime is remarkably short sighted. Whether you don't like her, their policies or brexit, having a collapse of Government (for spites sake), would cause untold damage to the UK, not least would simply put another caretaker in that wasn't voted for. I think she called the GE as she needed to know she wasn't the above caretaker. Like brexit though, nobody expected JC to gain as many votes as he did, they expected enough to gain a decent opposition not enough to be put into Govt. May though, is not to blame for Brexit. It is happening whether people like it or not whichever party leads it. Whoever presides over it isn't going to be liked and it'll neither have a good enough outcome. People will always think they could do better but the real issue is the shock of coming out of the EU that hasn't been felt yet. " Hi. I like your reply, it is thoughtful and considered. However having said that I would point out that this whole problem has been caused by tories being willing to do anything to stay in power. Do you really think that a political party that have a record of putting party before country and vanity before stability are the people we should back because they tell us it is in the national interest? | |||
"Will May still be PM by Christmas?" you read & believe to many news reports | |||
"For someone who has an interest in Article 50 and likely politics, tying everybody wanting JC out including his party, to wanting the PM out during the most important talks of our lifetime is remarkably short sighted. Whether you don't like her, their policies or brexit, having a collapse of Government (for spites sake), would cause untold damage to the UK, not least would simply put another caretaker in that wasn't voted for. I think she called the GE as she needed to know she wasn't the above caretaker. Like brexit though, nobody expected JC to gain as many votes as he did, they expected enough to gain a decent opposition not enough to be put into Govt. May though, is not to blame for Brexit. It is happening whether people like it or not whichever party leads it. Whoever presides over it isn't going to be liked and it'll neither have a good enough outcome. People will always think they could do better but the real issue is the shock of coming out of the EU that hasn't been felt yet. Hi. I like your reply, it is thoughtful and considered. However having said that I would point out that this whole problem has been caused by tories being willing to do anything to stay in power. Do you really think that a political party that have a record of putting party before country and vanity before stability are the people we should back because they tell us it is in the national interest? " The Cons were voted in despite pension cuts, care cuts, benefit caps, bedroom taxes, universal credit, budget cuts across all depts and councils not least what seemed a clear walk away, hard brexit. The national interest pay-down was a result global recession, I am not economically minded enough to say if austerity or further debt would have us in a better position in brexit. But these aren't policies of a party willing to do anything to stay in power, reversed or not. These are policies of a stark landscape. Labour or JC alone, you might say, were offering the world on a stick either to gain votes or offer true reform (dependent), but the reality is there is no GE. I don't oppose opposition but to talk of destabilising Govt when the course of history is set for political opportunism (especially when there are no clear policies in place), wastes times that could be better spent. Any person or party could centre stage at any given time but if the focus is on May; she needs popularity not vanity, you only have to look to the oppositions bench to see how a vanity project really looks. | |||
"We also need to consider The Maybot’s own state of mind in all of this. One can only presume that after the calamitous election and the ongoing farcical Brexit negotiations she must have been feeling the stress. Add to that her speech and the obvious knowledge of sharks circling - one can only imagine where her head is at the moment. Dunno about you guys, but in a former life I found myself in an intolerable (for me) working environment which impacted by production, my attitude and my ability to be even remotely focused, let alone fully focused. It is surely not beyond the realms of possibility that The Maybot may suddenly have an epiphany moment and step down for the sake of both her own sanity and the well being of the country. " I'm struggling to think of when a Tory PM last did anything of substance for 'the well being of the country'. Cameron called the Referendum in an attempt to heal Tory divisions and May called an unnecessary election purely to aid the Tories. Yes, they are both better than Johnson, whose every action is for his personal benefit rather than the Tories, let alone the country, but I really don't see May doing the honourable thing. | |||
"And what happened to March 29/30 and 31st? The date was deliberately chosen to avoid leaving at 00.01 on 1st April 2019. Sorry, I never count weekends (they are playtime) so not being fully accurate again... We leave at midnight on Friday 29/3/19 and the next working day is Monday 1/4/19 so our first working day out of the EU is April Fools Day... Jesus, you couldn't make this shit up! " 
Yet still Leave voters won't admit what an utter mess this is. There's another thread somewhere around changing your mind, yet it seems most people seem totally unwilling to do so and would rather stick their heads in the sand and pretend everything is hunky dory. It is so depressing! | |||
