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Catalonia referendum
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"Terrible situation ..... The Spanish government are not behaving in democratic way..... This referendum is not intended to create a binding result it simply to gauge opinion .... "I agree it is a terrible situation and I think it will only get worse as the day goes on. However the regional government has said that it will declare independence within 48 hrs should it win the vote. I think that is a tad more than gauging opinion. | |||
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"Terrible situation ..... The Spanish government are not behaving in democratic way..... This referendum is not intended to create a binding result it simply to gauge opinion ....
I agree it is a terrible situation and I think it will only get worse as the day goes on.
However the regional government has said that it will declare independence within 48 hrs should it win the vote. I think that is a tad more than gauging opinion. "It's going to get Messi See what I did there | |||
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"Terrible situation ..... The Spanish government are not behaving in democratic way..... This referendum is not intended to create a binding result it simply to gauge opinion ....
I agree it is a terrible situation and I think it will only get worse as the day goes on.
However the regional government has said that it will declare independence within 48 hrs should it win the vote. I think that is a tad more than gauging opinion.
It's going to get Messi
See what I did there " | |||
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"Terrible situation ..... The Spanish government are not behaving in democratic way..... This referendum is not intended to create a binding result it simply to gauge opinion .... "not quite soxy..... if there is a yes vote the catalonian government intend to declare independence withing 48hrs.... the problems i have with this entire situation is that there is fault on all sides... the catalonian government did not go thru the correct process in getting legalliy a vote, and decided to hold the vote unilateraly... there has been no "no" campaign, all the no people have asked people to boycott the vote.... saying that i think the spanish government have also been really heavy handed in the way they have reacted to this... and sending in riot police is only going to inflame the situation.... | |||
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"Terrible situation ..... The Spanish government are not behaving in democratic way..... This referendum is not intended to create a binding result it simply to gauge opinion ....
not quite soxy..... if there is a yes vote the catalonian government intend to declare independence withing 48hrs....
the problems i have with this entire situation is that there is fault on all sides...
the catalonian government did not go thru the correct process in getting legalliy a vote, and decided to hold the vote unilateraly...
there has been no "no" campaign, all the no people have asked people to boycott the vote....
saying that i think the spanish government have also been really heavy handed in the way they have reacted to this... and sending in riot police is only going to inflame the situation...."So what are you saying Fabio ? The whole thing is a Paella shite ? | |||
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"The EU have been very quiet about this situation." They have declared it 'an internal matter', what a bunch of dickless wonders. I'm glad we're leaving this failing behemoth. | |||
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"It's awful. Fabio, I think there isn't a way for them to do it. Central government can just block it. A vote is a vote. The technicalities, for me, are an aside. If it is done fairly, and overviewed for generally accepted methods of democracy, it should be done. Blocking it is just authoritarian ant-democracy." I see fault on both sides too and no possible resolution , bit like brexit | |||
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"It's awful. Fabio, I think there isn't a way for them to do it. Central government can just block it. A vote is a vote. The technicalities, for me, are an aside. If it is done fairly, and overviewed for generally accepted methods of democracy, it should be done. Blocking it is just authoritarian ant-democracy. I see fault on both sides too and no possible resolution , bit like brexit " Except a referendum was allowed for Brexit. They aren't being allowed a vote. | |||
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"It's awful. Fabio, I think there isn't a way for them to do it. Central government can just block it. A vote is a vote. The technicalities, for me, are an aside. If it is done fairly, and overviewed for generally accepted methods of democracy, it should be done. Blocking it is just authoritarian ant-democracy. I see fault on both sides too and no possible resolution , bit like brexit Except a referendum was allowed for Brexit. They aren't being allowed a vote." I think you mis understood I think there is fault on both sides regarding the Catalan situation , being bullied and a vote being outlawed is indeed one fault of one side With regards brexit I refer to the UK and Eu negotiation teams and that their objectives will not be possible with their being such deep division x | |||
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"Not quite hot on the heels of the Scottish referendum but possibly inspired by it the Catalonians hold a referendum for independence from Spain. The Spanish authorities declare the referendum illegal and respond with a show of force. This makes me appreciate living in a country where democracy is still king." Do you think it would be better if all sides respected the constitution? | |||
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"Catalonia gaining independence impacts on all of Spain. It's one of the richest regions, and contributes 20% of the Spanish GDP. The rest of Spain would rightly feel aggrieved if one of their richest regions leaves. As I hinted at yesterday, the Italian Northern League, rich and prosperous, may well try and ditch the poorer South of Italy. " 20% of gdp and 16% of the population. Not a vast difference in gdp per capita. But is that a reason to validly dis-allow their will? | |||
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" Do you think it would be better if all sides respected the constitution? " No. It would be better if all sides listened and respected each others decisions. | |||
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" Do you think it would be better if all sides respected the constitution? No. It would be better if all sides listened and respected each others decisions." So ignore the constitution then? How about legally change it if people are not happy with it? | |||
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" Do you think it would be better if all sides respected the constitution? No. It would be better if all sides listened and respected each others decisions. So ignore the constitution then? How about legally change it if people are not happy with it? " They are 16% of the national population so I think you know that to be unlikely / impossible. Also bit of a waste of time discussing this with you. If you don't like the outcome of something, you will look for anything to block it, regardless of it being democratic or not. | |||
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" Do you think it would be better if all sides respected the constitution? No. It would be better if all sides listened and respected each others decisions. So ignore the constitution then? How about legally change it if people are not happy with it? They are 16% of the national population so I think you know that to be unlikely / impossible. Also bit of a waste of time discussing this with you. If you don't like the outcome of something, you will look for anything to block it, regardless of it being democratic or not." . Didn't you know?. Anybody who loves their nationality and wants to govern themselves are right wing swivel eyed xenophobic white supremacists... They just have to be!!! Coz why else would you wanna do it  | |||
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"Terrible situation ..... The Spanish government are not behaving in democratic way..... This referendum is not intended to create a binding result it simply to gauge opinion ....
not quite soxy..... if there is a yes vote the catalonian government intend to declare independence withing 48hrs....
the problems i have with this entire situation is that there is fault on all sides...
the catalonian government did not go thru the correct process in getting legalliy a vote, and decided to hold the vote unilateraly...
there has been no "no" campaign, all the no people have asked people to boycott the vote....
saying that i think the spanish government have also been really heavy handed in the way they have reacted to this... and sending in riot police is only going to inflame the situation....
So what are you saying Fabio ?
The whole thing is a Paella shite ? " | |||
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"the barcelona game at the camp nou was originally called off... but they were threatened with a 6 point deduction if it doesn't take play... so they are now playing the game behind closed doors... " that's incorrect .... the game wasn't called off .... Barca's board asked for the game to be postponed not called off La Liga refused the board have decided in the interests of safety the game will be played behind closed doors. | |||
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" Do you think it would be better if all sides respected the constitution? No. It would be better if all sides listened and respected each others decisions. So ignore the constitution then? How about legally change it if people are not happy with it? They are 16% of the national population so I think you know that to be unlikely / impossible. Also bit of a waste of time discussing this with you. If you don't like the outcome of something, you will look for anything to block it, regardless of it being democratic or not." Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? | |||
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" Do you think it would be better if all sides respected the constitution? No. It would be better if all sides listened and respected each others decisions. So ignore the constitution then? How about legally change it if people are not happy with it? They are 16% of the national population so I think you know that to be unlikely / impossible. Also bit of a waste of time discussing this with you. If you don't like the outcome of something, you will look for anything to block it, regardless of it being democratic or not. Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? " It’s a good job that other people believe different. A believer is a bird in a cage, a freethinker is an eagle parting the clouds with tireless wing. | |||
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" Do you think it would be better if all sides respected the constitution? No. It would be better if all sides listened and respected each others decisions. So ignore the constitution then? How about legally change it if people are not happy with it? They are 16% of the national population so I think you know that to be unlikely / impossible. Also bit of a waste of time discussing this with you. If you don't like the outcome of something, you will look for anything to block it, regardless of it being democratic or not. Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? It’s a good job that other people believe different. A believer is a bird in a cage, a freethinker is an eagle parting the clouds with tireless wing. " True some like the cage though.Its called being institutionalized.Its common amongst prisoners. | |||
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" Do you think it would be better if all sides respected the constitution? No. It would be better if all sides listened and respected each others decisions. So ignore the constitution then? How about legally change it if people are not happy with it? They are 16% of the national population so I think you know that to be unlikely / impossible. Also bit of a waste of time discussing this with you. If you don't like the outcome of something, you will look for anything to block it, regardless of it being democratic or not. Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? It’s a good job that other people believe different. A believer is a bird in a cage, a freethinker is an eagle parting the clouds with tireless wing. " So freethinkers don't believe anything then? | |||
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" Do you think it would be better if all sides respected the constitution? No. It would be better if all sides listened and respected each others decisions. So ignore the constitution then? How about legally change it if people are not happy with it? They are 16% of the national population so I think you know that to be unlikely / impossible. Also bit of a waste of time discussing this with you. If you don't like the outcome of something, you will look for anything to block it, regardless of it being democratic or not. Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? It’s a good job that other people believe different. A believer is a bird in a cage, a freethinker is an eagle parting the clouds with tireless wing. So freethinkers don't believe anything then? "Do you know why the caged bird sings ? | |||
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"I AM William Wallace. And I see a whole army of my countrymen here in defiance of tyranny. You have come to fight as free men, and free men you are. What would you do without freedom? Will you fight? . . . No were going to respect the rule of law "And you are such a rebel, right? I bet you pay your council tax and have a TV licence like everyone else. | |||
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" Do you think it would be better if all sides respected the constitution? No. It would be better if all sides listened and respected each others decisions. So ignore the constitution then? How about legally change it if people are not happy with it? They are 16% of the national population so I think you know that to be unlikely / impossible. Also bit of a waste of time discussing this with you. If you don't like the outcome of something, you will look for anything to block it, regardless of it being democratic or not. Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? It’s a good job that other people believe different. A believer is a bird in a cage, a freethinker is an eagle parting the clouds with tireless wing. So freethinkers don't believe anything then? "Ask Robert Green Ingersoll. And roll your churlish eyes over that. | |||
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" Do you think it would be better if all sides respected the constitution? No. It would be better if all sides listened and respected each others decisions. So ignore the constitution then? How about legally change it if people are not happy with it? They are 16% of the national population so I think you know that to be unlikely / impossible. Also bit of a waste of time discussing this with you. If you don't like the outcome of something, you will look for anything to block it, regardless of it being democratic or not. Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? It’s a good job that other people believe different. A believer is a bird in a cage, a freethinker is an eagle parting the clouds with tireless wing. So freethinkers don't believe anything then?
Ask Robert Green Ingersoll.
And roll your churlish eyes over that. "Do you believe in the rule of law? | |||
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"I AM William Wallace. And I see a whole army of my countrymen here in defiance of tyranny. You have come to fight as free men, and free men you are. What would you do without freedom? Will you fight? . . . No were going to respect the rule of law
And you are such a rebel, right? I bet you pay your council tax and have a TV licence like everyone else."The majority of National Socialist Germany respected the role of Law. It’s not alway ways right and it doesn’t always bend to the will of the people. So sometimes you have to stand for what you believe in. The people of Catalonia stood peacefully while the world looks on and observes the treatment they are getting. | |||
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"I AM William Wallace. And I see a whole army of my countrymen here in defiance of tyranny. You have come to fight as free men, and free men you are. What would you do without freedom? Will you fight? . . . No were going to respect the rule of law
And you are such a rebel, right? I bet you pay your council tax and have a TV licence like everyone else.". I live in a cardboard box on the canal towpath! And I'm grateful for it  | |||
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"I AM William Wallace. And I see a whole army of my countrymen here in defiance of tyranny. You have come to fight as free men, and free men you are. What would you do without freedom? Will you fight? . . . No were going to respect the rule of law
And you are such a rebel, right? I bet you pay your council tax and have a TV licence like everyone else..
I live in a cardboard box on the canal towpath!
And I'm grateful for it "At least you get great data connection/ Wi-Fi where you are | |||
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"I AM William Wallace. And I see a whole army of my countrymen here in defiance of tyranny. You have come to fight as free men, and free men you are. What would you do without freedom? Will you fight? . . . No were going to respect the rule of law
And you are such a rebel, right? I bet you pay your council tax and have a TV licence like everyone else.
The majority of National Socialist Germany respected the role of Law.
It’s not alway ways right and it doesn’t always bend to the will of the people. So sometimes you have to stand for what you believe in. The people of Catalonia stood peacefully while the world looks on and observes the treatment they are getting. "Do you think that life in Catalonia at the moment is comparable to Nazi Germany? I think that's quite a stretch. | |||
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"I AM William Wallace. And I see a whole army of my countrymen here in defiance of tyranny. You have come to fight as free men, and free men you are. What would you do without freedom? Will you fight? . . . No were going to respect the rule of law
And you are such a rebel, right? I bet you pay your council tax and have a TV licence like everyone else.
The majority of National Socialist Germany respected the role of Law.
It’s not alway ways right and it doesn’t always bend to the will of the people. So sometimes you have to stand for what you believe in. The people of Catalonia stood peacefully while the world looks on and observes the treatment they are getting.
Do you think that life in Catalonia at the moment is comparable to Nazi Germany? I think that's quite a stretch. "You can deflect and minimise all you want. But have a look at what’s happening to the people on the street now. Not so far from the Röhm Putsch. Tyranny starts from somewhere small. Think broader. | |||
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"I AM William Wallace. And I see a whole army of my countrymen here in defiance of tyranny. You have come to fight as free men, and free men you are. What would you do without freedom? Will you fight? . . . No were going to respect the rule of law
And you are such a rebel, right? I bet you pay your council tax and have a TV licence like everyone else.
The majority of National Socialist Germany respected the role of Law.
It’s not alway ways right and it doesn’t always bend to the will of the people. So sometimes you have to stand for what you believe in. The people of Catalonia stood peacefully while the world looks on and observes the treatment they are getting.
Do you think that life in Catalonia at the moment is comparable to Nazi Germany? I think that's quite a stretch. "Hahaha is this the same guy who's banged on about Nazis and Nazi trump and Nazi America for the last six months | |||
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" Do you think it would be better if all sides respected the constitution? No. It would be better if all sides listened and respected each others decisions. So ignore the constitution then? How about legally change it if people are not happy with it? They are 16% of the national population so I think you know that to be unlikely / impossible. Also bit of a waste of time discussing this with you. If you don't like the outcome of something, you will look for anything to block it, regardless of it being democratic or not. Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? " You agree with the law do you? So you fully accept Spain should have their EU membership suspended for taking up arms against their own people? Unfortunately instead of upholding EU law - Brussels remains totally silent - Well there's a surprise | |||
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" So you fully accept Spain should have their EU membership suspended for taking up arms against their own people? " That phrase doesn't mean what you think it means. | |||
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" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? " And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? | |||
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"Terrible situation ..... The Spanish government are not behaving in democratic way..... This referendum is not intended to create a binding result it simply to gauge opinion .... "My arse! The regional government have said they will declare total independence within 48 hours of a yes vote! | |||
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" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that?" Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. | |||
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" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. " So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? | |||
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"I AM William Wallace. And I see a whole army of my countrymen here in defiance of tyranny. You have come to fight as free men, and free men you are. What would you do without freedom? Will you fight? . . . No were going to respect the rule of law
And you are such a rebel, right? I bet you pay your council tax and have a TV licence like everyone else.
The majority of National Socialist Germany respected the role of Law.
It’s not alway ways right and it doesn’t always bend to the will of the people. So sometimes you have to stand for what you believe in. The people of Catalonia stood peacefully while the world looks on and observes the treatment they are getting.
Do you think that life in Catalonia at the moment is comparable to Nazi Germany? I think that's quite a stretch. "Isn't Spain under a right wing party. Not so far from Franco? Aren't they known for corruption? I think you're being lenient on it. Rajoy just thanked the police for their job, even though they attacked the civilians. This is sounding a little like a dictatorship not nazism which is different. | |||
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" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote?" I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. | |||
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"I AM William Wallace. And I see a whole army of my countrymen here in defiance of tyranny. You have come to fight as free men, and free men you are. What would you do without freedom? Will you fight? . . . No were going to respect the rule of law
And you are such a rebel, right? I bet you pay your council tax and have a TV licence like everyone else.
The majority of National Socialist Germany respected the role of Law.
It’s not alway ways right and it doesn’t always bend to the will of the people. So sometimes you have to stand for what you believe in. The people of Catalonia stood peacefully while the world looks on and observes the treatment they are getting.
Do you think that life in Catalonia at the moment is comparable to Nazi Germany? I think that's quite a stretch.
Hahaha is this the same guy who's banged on about Nazis and Nazi trump and Nazi America for the last six months"Got any quotes to back that up? I have never said that life in the US is the same as life in Nazi Germany. | |||
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" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. " Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? | |||
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" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? " You had it. | |||
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" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it. "Bullshit answer try again please Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did | |||
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"I feel truly sick tonight I just saw a photo that is beyond sick. The Spanish police seen attacking the Catalan Fire fighters remember them? They go beyond the call of duty and save peoples lives all they are doing is protecting the Catalan people from but hurt and using their right to vote and am seeing Spanish police attack them. It truly sick!!!" Declaring it as illegal. Fair enough. But the police applying force with the authority of the government is not acceptable. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did"It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already. If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit. The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that."Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ? ''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ? What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. " You've avoided answering both questions. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
"Well they did not only 37%of those who voted did so fot unionist parties, but the main difference between scotlabd and catalonia is at least the sp have always acted legally | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
"I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster. The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland. The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them! No, Scotland doesn't have home rule. If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. You've avoided answering both questions." If the UK voted a party into government, that had a manifesto pledge to make voting illegal, then the UK public deserve to lose the right to vote. Yes, I do disapprove of Catalan independence, in fact I disapprove of most independence movements. I have conducted human rights interviews with people who have been r@ped as a weapon of war for their independence views. I support WWII veterans who are in their 90s and have been living in refugee camps for 30 years due to independence views. I know families who have been separated by thousands of miles for their independence views. Worked with human rights groups and trade unions fighting against forced labour, forced migration, child soldiers, landmine victims etc. All because of their independence views. It's not worth it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all."So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ? Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!! Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!! Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises | |||
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" So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. You've avoided answering both questions. If the UK voted a party into government, that had a manifesto pledge to make voting illegal, then the UK public deserve to lose the right to vote. Yes, I do disapprove of Catalan independence, in fact I disapprove of most independence movements. I have conducted human rights interviews with people who have been r@ped as a weapon of war for their independence views. I support WWII veterans who are in their 90s and have been living in refugee camps for 30 years due to independence views. I know families who have been separated by thousands of miles for their independence views. Worked with human rights groups and trade unions fighting against forced labour, forced migration, child soldiers, landmine victims etc. All because of their independence views. It's not worth it. " But it doesn't make it right how the institution and the system works. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. You've avoided answering both questions. If the UK voted a party into government, that had a manifesto pledge to make voting illegal, then the UK public deserve to lose the right to vote. Yes, I do disapprove of Catalan independence, in fact I disapprove of most independence movements. I have conducted human rights interviews with people who have been r@ped as a weapon of war for their independence views. I support WWII veterans who are in their 90s and have been living in refugee camps for 30 years due to independence views. I know families who have been separated by thousands of miles for their independence views. Worked with human rights groups and trade unions fighting against forced labour, forced migration, child soldiers, landmine victims etc. All because of their independence views. It's not worth it. " Thought so. You don't like what they want and construct arguments to justify the means of stopping it. You don't actually truly believe in democracy. Luckily you are the only person here who thinks what is happening is ok, and luckily you would be seen straight through in the real world too. Shame on you. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all.
So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer
Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ?
Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!!
Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union
I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence
Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!!
Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises"Only Westminster has that power. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. You've avoided answering both questions. If the UK voted a party into government, that had a manifesto pledge to make voting illegal, then the UK public deserve to lose the right to vote. Yes, I do disapprove of Catalan independence, in fact I disapprove of most independence movements. I have conducted human rights interviews with people who have been r@ped as a weapon of war for their independence views. I support WWII veterans who are in their 90s and have been living in refugee camps for 30 years due to independence views. I know families who have been separated by thousands of miles for their independence views. Worked with human rights groups and trade unions fighting against forced labour, forced migration, child soldiers, landmine victims etc. All because of their independence views. It's not worth it. Thought so. You don't like what they want and construct arguments to justify the means of stopping it. You don't actually truly believe in democracy. Luckily you are the only person here who thinks what is happening is ok, and luckily you would be seen straight through in the real world too. Shame on you." Shame on me for not wanting to see more r@pe victims? For not wanting to see more landmine victims? Shame on me for not wanting to see more refugees? For not wanting to see more civil war? I have absolutely zero shame in not wanting to see those things. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all.
So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer
Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ?
Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!!
Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union
I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence
Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!!
Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises
Only Westminster has that power. "Right lets twist it Say Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ? Yes i know thats not what it is but go on i dare you to answer it. | |||
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" So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. You've avoided answering both questions. If the UK voted a party into government, that had a manifesto pledge to make voting illegal, then the UK public deserve to lose the right to vote. Yes, I do disapprove of Catalan independence, in fact I disapprove of most independence movements. I have conducted human rights interviews with people who have been r@ped as a weapon of war for their independence views. I support WWII veterans who are in their 90s and have been living in refugee camps for 30 years due to independence views. I know families who have been separated by thousands of miles for their independence views. Worked with human rights groups and trade unions fighting against forced labour, forced migration, child soldiers, landmine victims etc. All because of their independence views. It's not worth it. Thought so. You don't like what they want and construct arguments to justify the means of stopping it. You don't actually truly believe in democracy. Luckily you are the only person here who thinks what is happening is ok, and luckily you would be seen straight through in the real world too. Shame on you." Its standard herd mentality. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. You've avoided answering both questions. If the UK voted a party into government, that had a manifesto pledge to make voting illegal, then the UK public deserve to lose the right to vote. Yes, I do disapprove of Catalan independence, in fact I disapprove of most independence movements. I have conducted human rights interviews with people who have been r@ped as a weapon of war for their independence views. I support WWII veterans who are in their 90s and have been living in refugee camps for 30 years due to independence views. I know families who have been separated by thousands of miles for their independence views. Worked with human rights groups and trade unions fighting against forced labour, forced migration, child soldiers, landmine victims etc. All because of their independence views. It's not worth it. " Where can we see your work chap? Sounds interesting | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all.
So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer
Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ?
Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!!
Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union
I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence
Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!!
Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises
Only Westminster has that power.
Right lets twist it
Say Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
Yes i know thats not what it is but go on i dare you to answer it."It's not England vs Scotland. England doesn't even have a parliament. Who would England be trying to get independence from?  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. You've avoided answering both questions. If the UK voted a party into government, that had a manifesto pledge to make voting illegal, then the UK public deserve to lose the right to vote. Yes, I do disapprove of Catalan independence, in fact I disapprove of most independence movements. I have conducted human rights interviews with people who have been r@ped as a weapon of war for their independence views. I support WWII veterans who are in their 90s and have been living in refugee camps for 30 years due to independence views. I know families who have been separated by thousands of miles for their independence views. Worked with human rights groups and trade unions fighting against forced labour, forced migration, child soldiers, landmine victims etc. All because of their independence views. It's not worth it. Where can we see your work chap? Sounds interesting " Oh and these WW2 Vets which refugee camps are they in. Sounds scandalous how did they end up there for 30 years? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all.
So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer
Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ?
Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!!
Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union
I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence
Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!!
Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises
Only Westminster has that power.
Right lets twist it
Say Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
Yes i know thats not what it is but go on i dare you to answer it.
It's not England vs Scotland. England doesn't even have a parliament. Who would England be trying to get independence from? "Come on you and others accused me of not answering questions Am not saying it is England vs Scotland. All am asking if Scotland had to power to tell England if they can have an independence referendum how pissed off would you be? How pissed off would you think English people would be ? Am just getting you to think of what your saying as you seem to be ok with another country government telling Scotland's people when and if we can hold a referendum So what if the rolls were different and Scotland had that power you honestly believe the English people wouldnt be pissed off that a government in Scotland they didnt vote for has power on telling them when and if they can have a referendum. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. You've avoided answering both questions. If the UK voted a party into government, that had a manifesto pledge to make voting illegal, then the UK public deserve to lose the right to vote. Yes, I do disapprove of Catalan independence, in fact I disapprove of most independence movements. I have conducted human rights interviews with people who have been r@ped as a weapon of war for their independence views. I support WWII veterans who are in their 90s and have been living in refugee camps for 30 years due to independence views. I know families who have been separated by thousands of miles for their independence views. Worked with human rights groups and trade unions fighting against forced labour, forced migration, child soldiers, landmine victims etc. All because of their independence views. It's not worth it. Where can we see your work chap? Sounds interesting Oh and these WW2 Vets which refugee camps are they in. Sounds scandalous how did they end up there for 30 years? " You can check out some of my work with Karen Human Rights Group. The refugee camps are places like Mae La Oon and Umpiem to name just two of them. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all.
So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer
Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ?
Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!!
Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union
I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence
Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!!
Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises
Only Westminster has that power.
Right lets twist it
Say Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
Yes i know thats not what it is but go on i dare you to answer it.
It's not England vs Scotland. England doesn't even have a parliament. Who would England be trying to get independence from?
Come on you and others accused me of not answering questions
Am not saying it is England vs Scotland.
All am asking if Scotland had to power to tell England if they can have an independence referendum how pissed off would you be? How pissed off would you think English people would be ?
Am just getting you to think of what your saying as you seem to be ok with another country government telling Scotland's people when and if we can hold a referendum
So what if the rolls were different and Scotland had that power you honestly believe the English people wouldnt be pissed off that a government in Scotland they didnt vote for has power on telling them when and if they can have a referendum. "It's not another country, its the UK government, Scotland is part of UK. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all.
So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer
Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ?
Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!!
Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union
I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence
Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!!
Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises
Only Westminster has that power.
Right lets twist it
Say Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
Yes i know thats not what it is but go on i dare you to answer it."Fucking blame William Wallace then it's all his fault Scotlands on the position it's in. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all.
So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer
Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ?
Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!!
Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union
I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence
Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!!
Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises
Only Westminster has that power.
Right lets twist it
Say Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
Yes i know thats not what it is but go on i dare you to answer it.
It's not England vs Scotland. England doesn't even have a parliament. Who would England be trying to get independence from?
Come on you and others accused me of not answering questions
Am not saying it is England vs Scotland.
All am asking if Scotland had to power to tell England if they can have an independence referendum how pissed off would you be? How pissed off would you think English people would be ?
Am just getting you to think of what your saying as you seem to be ok with another country government telling Scotland's people when and if we can hold a referendum
So what if the rolls were different and Scotland had that power you honestly believe the English people wouldnt be pissed off that a government in Scotland they didnt vote for has power on telling them when and if they can have a referendum.
It's not another country, its the UK government, Scotland is part of UK."Oh my god not another one that thinks the UK is one country that is embarrassing. There is 4 countries in the UK Scotland is not a region nor is England nor is Wales and Nor is N.Ireland they are all countries in a union Come on you ask me to answer questions so please answer mine unless you cant or afraid too Now Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ? You seem afraid to answer i just want your views because you seem happy for Westminster to hold that power over the Scottish people so would you be the same if it was Holyrood that had power to allow England to have an independence referendum | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all.
So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer
Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ?
Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!!
Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union
I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence
Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!!
Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises
Only Westminster has that power.
Right lets twist it
Say Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
Yes i know thats not what it is but go on i dare you to answer it.
It's not England vs Scotland. England doesn't even have a parliament. Who would England be trying to get independence from?
Come on you and others accused me of not answering questions
Am not saying it is England vs Scotland.
All am asking if Scotland had to power to tell England if they can have an independence referendum how pissed off would you be? How pissed off would you think English people would be ?
Am just getting you to think of what your saying as you seem to be ok with another country government telling Scotland's people when and if we can hold a referendum
So what if the rolls were different and Scotland had that power you honestly believe the English people wouldnt be pissed off that a government in Scotland they didnt vote for has power on telling them when and if they can have a referendum.
It's not another country, its the UK government, Scotland is part of UK.
Oh my god not another one that thinks the UK is one country that is embarrassing.
There is 4 countries in the UK
Scotland is not a region nor is England nor is Wales and Nor is N.Ireland they are all countries in a union
Come on you ask me to answer questions so please answer mine unless you cant or afraid too
Now Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
You seem afraid to answer i just want your views because you seem happy for Westminster to hold that power over the Scottish people so would you be the same if it was Holyrood that had power to allow England to have an independence referendum "No, I wouldn't care if in your bizarre hypothetical scenario where scotland had the power to decide if England got independence from some hypothetical situation. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all.
So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer
Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ?
Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!!
Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union
I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence
Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!!
Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises
Only Westminster has that power.
Right lets twist it
Say Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
Yes i know thats not what it is but go on i dare you to answer it.
It's not England vs Scotland. England doesn't even have a parliament. Who would England be trying to get independence from?
Come on you and others accused me of not answering questions
Am not saying it is England vs Scotland.
All am asking if Scotland had to power to tell England if they can have an independence referendum how pissed off would you be? How pissed off would you think English people would be ?
Am just getting you to think of what your saying as you seem to be ok with another country government telling Scotland's people when and if we can hold a referendum
So what if the rolls were different and Scotland had that power you honestly believe the English people wouldnt be pissed off that a government in Scotland they didnt vote for has power on telling them when and if they can have a referendum.
It's not another country, its the UK government, Scotland is part of UK.
Oh my god not another one that thinks the UK is one country that is embarrassing.
There is 4 countries in the UK
Scotland is not a region nor is England nor is Wales and Nor is N.Ireland they are all countries in a union
Come on you ask me to answer questions so please answer mine unless you cant or afraid too
Now Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
You seem afraid to answer i just want your views because you seem happy for Westminster to hold that power over the Scottish people so would you be the same if it was Holyrood that had power to allow England to have an independence referendum
No, I wouldn't care if in your bizarre hypothetical scenario where scotland had the power to decide if England got independence from some hypothetical situation. "Right so you wouldnt care if Holyrood had to power to allow England to hold an independence referendum Do you think the majority of English people would sahre the same views as you or would they be pissed off that a goverment in another country hold power to allow a referendum when the people in England voted for a party to hold a referendum So much for democracy eh where people think its ok to tell another countries people sit down and shut up we dont care who you voted to elect and shove your manifesto / mandate up your arse I feel so welcome in thos so called family of nations that you can the UK | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all.
So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer
Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ?
Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!!
Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union
I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence
Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!!
Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises
Only Westminster has that power.
Right lets twist it
Say Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
Yes i know thats not what it is but go on i dare you to answer it.
It's not England vs Scotland. England doesn't even have a parliament. Who would England be trying to get independence from?
Come on you and others accused me of not answering questions
Am not saying it is England vs Scotland.
All am asking if Scotland had to power to tell England if they can have an independence referendum how pissed off would you be? How pissed off would you think English people would be ?
Am just getting you to think of what your saying as you seem to be ok with another country government telling Scotland's people when and if we can hold a referendum
So what if the rolls were different and Scotland had that power you honestly believe the English people wouldnt be pissed off that a government in Scotland they didnt vote for has power on telling them when and if they can have a referendum.
It's not another country, its the UK government, Scotland is part of UK.
Oh my god not another one that thinks the UK is one country that is embarrassing.
There is 4 countries in the UK
Scotland is not a region nor is England nor is Wales and Nor is N.Ireland they are all countries in a union
Come on you ask me to answer questions so please answer mine unless you cant or afraid too
Now Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
You seem afraid to answer i just want your views because you seem happy for Westminster to hold that power over the Scottish people so would you be the same if it was Holyrood that had power to allow England to have an independence referendum
No, I wouldn't care if in your bizarre hypothetical scenario where scotland had the power to decide if England got independence from some hypothetical situation.
Right so you wouldnt care if Holyrood had to power to allow England to hold an independence referendum
Do you think the majority of English people would sahre the same views as you or would they be pissed off that a goverment in another country hold power to allow a referendum when the people in England voted for a party to hold a referendum
So much for democracy eh where people think its ok to tell another countries people sit down and shut up we dont care who you voted to elect and shove your manifesto / mandate up your arse
I feel so welcome in thos so called family of nations that you can the UK "It's not a seperate country though. The UK is one country. So the premise of your arguement is completely wrong. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Referendums what do they actually achieve? Division, hatred, elitism, destabilisation, insularity, bigotry and chaos! And lots of filthy Lucre!" No no no, look at how unified Scotland was after their referendum. Look how unified the UK is after Brexit. The whole country is basking in the warm glow of democracy. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Referendums what do they actually achieve? Division, hatred, elitism, destabilisation, insularity, bigotry and chaos! And lots of filthy Lucre!" Good point. Never let the people decide, they know not what they want only that they know they haven't got it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? " See.. I know the point you are trying to spin.... so lets apply that to the situation with catalonia... yes the majority party in catalonia ran on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum do i accept that as a mandate.... well in this situation before catalonia can take it to spain, they majority party would have needed 90 votes in the catalonian parliament for the resoulution to pass.... the majority party decided to change the rules without debate from 90 votes for it to pass to 72 votes for it to pass.... hence it passed... hence they called the referendum, hence why the spanish court took it to the federal court in barcelona and they called it illegal! so no they don't have a LEGAL mandate to run the referendum.... now.... do i think the spanish government should have gotten involved any further and tried to stop it.... no!!! because they groups opposed to it had already called on their supporters to boycott the election, there was no "no" campaign... only a "yes" campaign, and no one would think of it as legitimate because they had no LEGAL mandate... so yes, i think the spanish government have lost the moral arguement today with their heavy handedness... there was no need for it since no one in the world would have recognised it..... now i think the spanish government have created a larger problem as they have give the people who didn't obey the law in the first place the moral high ground.... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all.
So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer
Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ?
Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!!
Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union
I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence
Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!!
Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises
Only Westminster has that power.
Right lets twist it
Say Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
Yes i know thats not what it is but go on i dare you to answer it.
It's not England vs Scotland. England doesn't even have a parliament. Who would England be trying to get independence from?
Come on you and others accused me of not answering questions
Am not saying it is England vs Scotland.
All am asking if Scotland had to power to tell England if they can have an independence referendum how pissed off would you be? How pissed off would you think English people would be ?
Am just getting you to think of what your saying as you seem to be ok with another country government telling Scotland's people when and if we can hold a referendum
So what if the rolls were different and Scotland had that power you honestly believe the English people wouldnt be pissed off that a government in Scotland they didnt vote for has power on telling them when and if they can have a referendum.
It's not another country, its the UK government, Scotland is part of UK.
Oh my god not another one that thinks the UK is one country that is embarrassing.
There is 4 countries in the UK
Scotland is not a region nor is England nor is Wales and Nor is N.Ireland they are all countries in a union
Come on you ask me to answer questions so please answer mine unless you cant or afraid too
Now Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
You seem afraid to answer i just want your views because you seem happy for Westminster to hold that power over the Scottish people so would you be the same if it was Holyrood that had power to allow England to have an independence referendum
No, I wouldn't care if in your bizarre hypothetical scenario where scotland had the power to decide if England got independence from some hypothetical situation.
Right so you wouldnt care if Holyrood had to power to allow England to hold an independence referendum
Do you think the majority of English people would sahre the same views as you or would they be pissed off that a goverment in another country hold power to allow a referendum when the people in England voted for a party to hold a referendum
So much for democracy eh where people think its ok to tell another countries people sit down and shut up we dont care who you voted to elect and shove your manifesto / mandate up your arse
I feel so welcome in thos so called family of nations that you can the UK
It's not a seperate country though. The UK is one country. So the premise of your arguement is completely wrong. "Really ? So you dont think England is country now ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all.
So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer
Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ?
Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!!
Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union
I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence
Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!!
Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises
Only Westminster has that power.
Right lets twist it
Say Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
Yes i know thats not what it is but go on i dare you to answer it.
It's not England vs Scotland. England doesn't even have a parliament. Who would England be trying to get independence from?
Come on you and others accused me of not answering questions
Am not saying it is England vs Scotland.
All am asking if Scotland had to power to tell England if they can have an independence referendum how pissed off would you be? How pissed off would you think English people would be ?
Am just getting you to think of what your saying as you seem to be ok with another country government telling Scotland's people when and if we can hold a referendum
So what if the rolls were different and Scotland had that power you honestly believe the English people wouldnt be pissed off that a government in Scotland they didnt vote for has power on telling them when and if they can have a referendum.
It's not another country, its the UK government, Scotland is part of UK.
Oh my god not another one that thinks the UK is one country that is embarrassing.
There is 4 countries in the UK
Scotland is not a region nor is England nor is Wales and Nor is N.Ireland they are all countries in a union
Come on you ask me to answer questions so please answer mine unless you cant or afraid too
Now Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
You seem afraid to answer i just want your views because you seem happy for Westminster to hold that power over the Scottish people so would you be the same if it was Holyrood that had power to allow England to have an independence referendum
No, I wouldn't care if in your bizarre hypothetical scenario where scotland had the power to decide if England got independence from some hypothetical situation.
Right so you wouldnt care if Holyrood had to power to allow England to hold an independence referendum
Do you think the majority of English people would sahre the same views as you or would they be pissed off that a goverment in another country hold power to allow a referendum when the people in England voted for a party to hold a referendum
So much for democracy eh where people think its ok to tell another countries people sit down and shut up we dont care who you voted to elect and shove your manifesto / mandate up your arse
I feel so welcome in thos so called family of nations that you can the UK
It's not a seperate country though. The UK is one country. So the premise of your arguement is completely wrong.
Really ? So you dont think England is country now ?
"Well if we look at the Montevideo Convention of 1933 there are 4 criteria for statehood. "The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states." So lets break it down for England. A) Yes, England has people permanently resident there. B) Yes, England has defined borders, the majority of which is coastline making it quite easy. C) No, England doesn't have a government. The UK does, but England does. No Government, no parliament, no assembly, no senate, no duma, no synod, nothing. D) No, England doesn't have any capacity to enter into agreements with other states. As mentioned in C, England doesn't have a government to direct any such agreements. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all.
So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer
Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ?
Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!!
Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union
I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence
Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!!
Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises
Only Westminster has that power.
Right lets twist it
Say Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
Yes i know thats not what it is but go on i dare you to answer it.
It's not England vs Scotland. England doesn't even have a parliament. Who would England be trying to get independence from?
Come on you and others accused me of not answering questions
Am not saying it is England vs Scotland.
All am asking if Scotland had to power to tell England if they can have an independence referendum how pissed off would you be? How pissed off would you think English people would be ?
Am just getting you to think of what your saying as you seem to be ok with another country government telling Scotland's people when and if we can hold a referendum
So what if the rolls were different and Scotland had that power you honestly believe the English people wouldnt be pissed off that a government in Scotland they didnt vote for has power on telling them when and if they can have a referendum.
It's not another country, its the UK government, Scotland is part of UK.
Oh my god not another one that thinks the UK is one country that is embarrassing.
There is 4 countries in the UK
Scotland is not a region nor is England nor is Wales and Nor is N.Ireland they are all countries in a union
Come on you ask me to answer questions so please answer mine unless you cant or afraid too
Now Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
You seem afraid to answer i just want your views because you seem happy for Westminster to hold that power over the Scottish people so would you be the same if it was Holyrood that had power to allow England to have an independence referendum
No, I wouldn't care if in your bizarre hypothetical scenario where scotland had the power to decide if England got independence from some hypothetical situation.
Right so you wouldnt care if Holyrood had to power to allow England to hold an independence referendum
Do you think the majority of English people would sahre the same views as you or would they be pissed off that a goverment in another country hold power to allow a referendum when the people in England voted for a party to hold a referendum
So much for democracy eh where people think its ok to tell another countries people sit down and shut up we dont care who you voted to elect and shove your manifesto / mandate up your arse
I feel so welcome in thos so called family of nations that you can the UK
It's not a seperate country though. The UK is one country. So the premise of your arguement is completely wrong.
Really ? So you dont think England is country now ?
Well if we look at the Montevideo Convention of 1933 there are 4 criteria for statehood.
"The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states."
So lets break it down for England.
A) Yes, England has people permanently resident there.
B) Yes, England has defined borders, the majority of which is coastline making it quite easy.
C) No, England doesn't have a government. The UK does, but England does. No Government, no parliament, no assembly, no senate, no duma, no synod, nothing.
D) No, England doesn't have any capacity to enter into agreements with other states. As mentioned in C, England doesn't have a government to direct any such agreements.
"God you sure as hell bullshit your way round answering questions All i asked you do you think England is a country? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all.
So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer
Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ?
Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!!
Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union
I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence
Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!!
Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises
Only Westminster has that power.
Right lets twist it
Say Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
Yes i know thats not what it is but go on i dare you to answer it.
It's not England vs Scotland. England doesn't even have a parliament. Who would England be trying to get independence from?
Come on you and others accused me of not answering questions
Am not saying it is England vs Scotland.
All am asking if Scotland had to power to tell England if they can have an independence referendum how pissed off would you be? How pissed off would you think English people would be ?
Am just getting you to think of what your saying as you seem to be ok with another country government telling Scotland's people when and if we can hold a referendum
So what if the rolls were different and Scotland had that power you honestly believe the English people wouldnt be pissed off that a government in Scotland they didnt vote for has power on telling them when and if they can have a referendum.
It's not another country, its the UK government, Scotland is part of UK.
Oh my god not another one that thinks the UK is one country that is embarrassing.
There is 4 countries in the UK
Scotland is not a region nor is England nor is Wales and Nor is N.Ireland they are all countries in a union
Come on you ask me to answer questions so please answer mine unless you cant or afraid too
Now Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
You seem afraid to answer i just want your views because you seem happy for Westminster to hold that power over the Scottish people so would you be the same if it was Holyrood that had power to allow England to have an independence referendum
No, I wouldn't care if in your bizarre hypothetical scenario where scotland had the power to decide if England got independence from some hypothetical situation.
Right so you wouldnt care if Holyrood had to power to allow England to hold an independence referendum
Do you think the majority of English people would sahre the same views as you or would they be pissed off that a goverment in another country hold power to allow a referendum when the people in England voted for a party to hold a referendum
So much for democracy eh where people think its ok to tell another countries people sit down and shut up we dont care who you voted to elect and shove your manifesto / mandate up your arse
I feel so welcome in thos so called family of nations that you can the UK
It's not a seperate country though. The UK is one country. So the premise of your arguement is completely wrong.
Really ? So you dont think England is country now ?
Well if we look at the Montevideo Convention of 1933 there are 4 criteria for statehood.
"The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states."
So lets break it down for England.
A) Yes, England has people permanently resident there.
B) Yes, England has defined borders, the majority of which is coastline making it quite easy.
C) No, England doesn't have a government. The UK does, but England does. No Government, no parliament, no assembly, no senate, no duma, no synod, nothing.
D) No, England doesn't have any capacity to enter into agreements with other states. As mentioned in C, England doesn't have a government to direct any such agreements.
God you sure as hell bullshit your way round answering questions
All i asked you do you think England is a country? "I answered you! No, it doesn't meet the internationally established criteria! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Referendums what do they actually achieve? Division, hatred, elitism, destabilisation, insularity, bigotry and chaos! And lots of filthy Lucre!" You forgot freedom. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all.
So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer
Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ?
Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!!
Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union
I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence
Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!!
Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises
Only Westminster has that power.
Right lets twist it
Say Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
Yes i know thats not what it is but go on i dare you to answer it.
It's not England vs Scotland. England doesn't even have a parliament. Who would England be trying to get independence from?
Come on you and others accused me of not answering questions
Am not saying it is England vs Scotland.
All am asking if Scotland had to power to tell England if they can have an independence referendum how pissed off would you be? How pissed off would you think English people would be ?
Am just getting you to think of what your saying as you seem to be ok with another country government telling Scotland's people when and if we can hold a referendum
So what if the rolls were different and Scotland had that power you honestly believe the English people wouldnt be pissed off that a government in Scotland they didnt vote for has power on telling them when and if they can have a referendum.
It's not another country, its the UK government, Scotland is part of UK.
Oh my god not another one that thinks the UK is one country that is embarrassing.
There is 4 countries in the UK
Scotland is not a region nor is England nor is Wales and Nor is N.Ireland they are all countries in a union
Come on you ask me to answer questions so please answer mine unless you cant or afraid too
Now Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
You seem afraid to answer i just want your views because you seem happy for Westminster to hold that power over the Scottish people so would you be the same if it was Holyrood that had power to allow England to have an independence referendum
No, I wouldn't care if in your bizarre hypothetical scenario where scotland had the power to decide if England got independence from some hypothetical situation.
Right so you wouldnt care if Holyrood had to power to allow England to hold an independence referendum
Do you think the majority of English people would sahre the same views as you or would they be pissed off that a goverment in another country hold power to allow a referendum when the people in England voted for a party to hold a referendum
So much for democracy eh where people think its ok to tell another countries people sit down and shut up we dont care who you voted to elect and shove your manifesto / mandate up your arse
I feel so welcome in thos so called family of nations that you can the UK
It's not a seperate country though. The UK is one country. So the premise of your arguement is completely wrong.
Really ? So you dont think England is country now ?
Well if we look at the Montevideo Convention of 1933 there are 4 criteria for statehood.
"The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states."
So lets break it down for England.
A) Yes, England has people permanently resident there.
B) Yes, England has defined borders, the majority of which is coastline making it quite easy.
C) No, England doesn't have a government. The UK does, but England does. No Government, no parliament, no assembly, no senate, no duma, no synod, nothing.
D) No, England doesn't have any capacity to enter into agreements with other states. As mentioned in C, England doesn't have a government to direct any such agreements.
God you sure as hell bullshit your way round answering questions
All i asked you do you think England is a country?
I answered you! No, it doesn't meet the internationally established criteria! "So you are saying you dont believe England is a country wow just wow i have no words I wonder how many people in England share your views eh So dont think their is 4 countries in the UK ? You do know the UK is a union of countries its not a country Same as Britain is not a country its an island Do you think Scandinavia is one country ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Referendums what do they actually achieve? Division, hatred, elitism, destabilisation, insularity, bigotry and chaos! And lots of filthy Lucre! You forgot freedom. "
That they do
Its strange that people that claimed that the Scottish independence referendum was divisive
Now those same people want a 2nd EU referendum strange how people's minds work when its ok to deny one but think its ok to have another
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Shame on me for not wanting to see more r@pe victims? For not wanting to see more landmine victims? Shame on me for not wanting to see more refugees? For not wanting to see more civil war? I have absolutely zero shame in not wanting to see those things. " More smoke and mirrors that deceive no one. So presumably you think independence of the colonies was wrong and you would have preferred continuation of the British Empire? For someone who claims to be forward thinking, your approval of authoritarian violence against self determination is shocking. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all.
So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer
Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ?
Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!!
Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union
I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence
Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!!
Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises
Only Westminster has that power.
Right lets twist it
Say Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
Yes i know thats not what it is but go on i dare you to answer it.
It's not England vs Scotland. England doesn't even have a parliament. Who would England be trying to get independence from?
Come on you and others accused me of not answering questions
Am not saying it is England vs Scotland.
All am asking if Scotland had to power to tell England if they can have an independence referendum how pissed off would you be? How pissed off would you think English people would be ?
Am just getting you to think of what your saying as you seem to be ok with another country government telling Scotland's people when and if we can hold a referendum
So what if the rolls were different and Scotland had that power you honestly believe the English people wouldnt be pissed off that a government in Scotland they didnt vote for has power on telling them when and if they can have a referendum.
It's not another country, its the UK government, Scotland is part of UK.
Oh my god not another one that thinks the UK is one country that is embarrassing.
There is 4 countries in the UK
Scotland is not a region nor is England nor is Wales and Nor is N.Ireland they are all countries in a union
Come on you ask me to answer questions so please answer mine unless you cant or afraid too
Now Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
You seem afraid to answer i just want your views because you seem happy for Westminster to hold that power over the Scottish people so would you be the same if it was Holyrood that had power to allow England to have an independence referendum
No, I wouldn't care if in your bizarre hypothetical scenario where scotland had the power to decide if England got independence from some hypothetical situation.
Right so you wouldnt care if Holyrood had to power to allow England to hold an independence referendum
Do you think the majority of English people would sahre the same views as you or would they be pissed off that a goverment in another country hold power to allow a referendum when the people in England voted for a party to hold a referendum
So much for democracy eh where people think its ok to tell another countries people sit down and shut up we dont care who you voted to elect and shove your manifesto / mandate up your arse
I feel so welcome in thos so called family of nations that you can the UK
It's not a seperate country though. The UK is one country. So the premise of your arguement is completely wrong.
Really ? So you dont think England is country now ?
Well if we look at the Montevideo Convention of 1933 there are 4 criteria for statehood.
"The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states."
So lets break it down for England.
A) Yes, England has people permanently resident there.
B) Yes, England has defined borders, the majority of which is coastline making it quite easy.
C) No, England doesn't have a government. The UK does, but England does. No Government, no parliament, no assembly, no senate, no duma, no synod, nothing.
D) No, England doesn't have any capacity to enter into agreements with other states. As mentioned in C, England doesn't have a government to direct any such agreements.
God you sure as hell bullshit your way round answering questions
All i asked you do you think England is a country?
I answered you! No, it doesn't meet the internationally established criteria!
So you are saying you dont believe England is a country wow just wow i have no words
I wonder how many people in England share your views eh
So dont think their is 4 countries in the UK ? You do know the UK is a union of countries its not a country
Same as Britain is not a country its an island
Do you think Scandinavia is one country ?"Well let's apply those criteria to Scandinavia. A) Yes, permanent residents B) Yes, defined borders C) No, no government of Scandinavia D) No, no capacities to enter into agreements with other states. So no, Scandinavia is not a country. What is your definition of what a country is? | |||
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" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all.
So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer
Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ?
Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!!
Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union
I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence
Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!!
Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises
Only Westminster has that power.
Right lets twist it
Say Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
Yes i know thats not what it is but go on i dare you to answer it.
It's not England vs Scotland. England doesn't even have a parliament. Who would England be trying to get independence from?
Come on you and others accused me of not answering questions
Am not saying it is England vs Scotland.
All am asking if Scotland had to power to tell England if they can have an independence referendum how pissed off would you be? How pissed off would you think English people would be ?
Am just getting you to think of what your saying as you seem to be ok with another country government telling Scotland's people when and if we can hold a referendum
So what if the rolls were different and Scotland had that power you honestly believe the English people wouldnt be pissed off that a government in Scotland they didnt vote for has power on telling them when and if they can have a referendum.
It's not another country, its the UK government, Scotland is part of UK.
Oh my god not another one that thinks the UK is one country that is embarrassing.
There is 4 countries in the UK
Scotland is not a region nor is England nor is Wales and Nor is N.Ireland they are all countries in a union
Come on you ask me to answer questions so please answer mine unless you cant or afraid too
Now Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
You seem afraid to answer i just want your views because you seem happy for Westminster to hold that power over the Scottish people so would you be the same if it was Holyrood that had power to allow England to have an independence referendum
No, I wouldn't care if in your bizarre hypothetical scenario where scotland had the power to decide if England got independence from some hypothetical situation.
Right so you wouldnt care if Holyrood had to power to allow England to hold an independence referendum
Do you think the majority of English people would sahre the same views as you or would they be pissed off that a goverment in another country hold power to allow a referendum when the people in England voted for a party to hold a referendum
So much for democracy eh where people think its ok to tell another countries people sit down and shut up we dont care who you voted to elect and shove your manifesto / mandate up your arse
I feel so welcome in thos so called family of nations that you can the UK
It's not a seperate country though. The UK is one country. So the premise of your arguement is completely wrong.
Really ? So you dont think England is country now ?
Well if we look at the Montevideo Convention of 1933 there are 4 criteria for statehood.
"The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states."
So lets break it down for England.
A) Yes, England has people permanently resident there.
B) Yes, England has defined borders, the majority of which is coastline making it quite easy.
C) No, England doesn't have a government. The UK does, but England does. No Government, no parliament, no assembly, no senate, no duma, no synod, nothing.
D) No, England doesn't have any capacity to enter into agreements with other states. As mentioned in C, England doesn't have a government to direct any such agreements.
God you sure as hell bullshit your way round answering questions
All i asked you do you think England is a country?
I answered you! No, it doesn't meet the internationally established criteria!
So you are saying you dont believe England is a country wow just wow i have no words
I wonder how many people in England share your views eh
So dont think their is 4 countries in the UK ? You do know the UK is a union of countries its not a country
Same as Britain is not a country its an island
Do you think Scandinavia is one country ?
Well let's apply those criteria to Scandinavia.
A) Yes, permanent residents
B) Yes, defined borders
C) No, no government of Scandinavia
D) No, no capacities to enter into agreements with other states. So no, Scandinavia is not a country.
What is your definition of what a country is? "Right lets try this one The UK is union of countries. You claim the UK is one country So by that logic are you calling the 27 independent countries in the EU one country or is that union of 27 independent countries ? | |||
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" Shame on me for not wanting to see more r@pe victims? For not wanting to see more landmine victims? Shame on me for not wanting to see more refugees? For not wanting to see more civil war? I have absolutely zero shame in not wanting to see those things. More smoke and mirrors that deceive no one. So presumably you think independence of the colonies was wrong and you would have preferred continuation of the British Empire? For someone who claims to be forward thinking, your approval of authoritarian violence against self determination is shocking." No I wouldn't have preferred the continuation of the Empire. If you could provide a quote of where I have shown approval of "authoritarian violence against self determination" that would be great. In fact as you will see from the section where you have quoted me, I am very much against that. However you think that I should feel shame for being anti-civil war! | |||
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" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
I have answered your question! No the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to hold an independence referendum. That rests solely with Westminster.
The UK isn't a seperate country to Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament does however have the powers to RAISE or LOWER taxes, yet they never have. The SNP obviously think that the Tories are making the best taxation choices for scotland as they have mirrored them!
No, Scotland doesn't have home rule.
If Scotland wants a referendum, then they should vote for parties at Westminster that are going to give him. You hate Labour, you hate the Tories and you hate the Lib Dems, but without them, Scotland wouldn't have any devolution, or have had an independence referendum at all.
So you are answering my question by saying no you dont think the Scottish government who were elected by the Scottish people have a mandatr to have the right to hold a referendum interesting answer
Now can you please now tell me in your opinion who do you think has a mandate in Scotland which party or branch office ?
Knew it unionists go down the route to say raise taxes so you want the Scottish people to pay more tax than the rest of the UK to what cover Tory austerity ? Some Tory austerity Scotland didnt vote for lmao!!!
Fuck sake Scotland voted for to have a referendum in Holyrood it passed democractic. Scotland can only ever have 59 Scottish mp's where is England has 600 + mps and they are all for keeping the union
I see you have forgotton what Maggie the bitch Thatcher said that Scotland needed to send a majority of Scottish nationists to Westminster to gain independence
Ah right so i should thank the unionist parties for giving Scotland a parliament yeah that will be fucking right!!
Thank you for confirming Scotland doesnt have Home Rule as that was promised to Scotland in 2014 and so unionists love breaking promises
Only Westminster has that power.
Right lets twist it
Say Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
Yes i know thats not what it is but go on i dare you to answer it.
It's not England vs Scotland. England doesn't even have a parliament. Who would England be trying to get independence from?
Come on you and others accused me of not answering questions
Am not saying it is England vs Scotland.
All am asking if Scotland had to power to tell England if they can have an independence referendum how pissed off would you be? How pissed off would you think English people would be ?
Am just getting you to think of what your saying as you seem to be ok with another country government telling Scotland's people when and if we can hold a referendum
So what if the rolls were different and Scotland had that power you honestly believe the English people wouldnt be pissed off that a government in Scotland they didnt vote for has power on telling them when and if they can have a referendum.
It's not another country, its the UK government, Scotland is part of UK.
Oh my god not another one that thinks the UK is one country that is embarrassing.
There is 4 countries in the UK
Scotland is not a region nor is England nor is Wales and Nor is N.Ireland they are all countries in a union
Come on you ask me to answer questions so please answer mine unless you cant or afraid too
Now Scotland had power over allowing England an independence referednum would you be pissed off? How many people in England do you think would be pissed off that another countries government are telling them they hold the power to allow a referendum or not ?
You seem afraid to answer i just want your views because you seem happy for Westminster to hold that power over the Scottish people so would you be the same if it was Holyrood that had power to allow England to have an independence referendum
No, I wouldn't care if in your bizarre hypothetical scenario where scotland had the power to decide if England got independence from some hypothetical situation.
Right so you wouldnt care if Holyrood had to power to allow England to hold an independence referendum
Do you think the majority of English people would sahre the same views as you or would they be pissed off that a goverment in another country hold power to allow a referendum when the people in England voted for a party to hold a referendum
So much for democracy eh where people think its ok to tell another countries people sit down and shut up we dont care who you voted to elect and shove your manifesto / mandate up your arse
I feel so welcome in thos so called family of nations that you can the UK
It's not a seperate country though. The UK is one country. So the premise of your arguement is completely wrong.
Really ? So you dont think England is country now ?
Well if we look at the Montevideo Convention of 1933 there are 4 criteria for statehood.
"The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states."
So lets break it down for England.
A) Yes, England has people permanently resident there.
B) Yes, England has defined borders, the majority of which is coastline making it quite easy.
C) No, England doesn't have a government. The UK does, but England does. No Government, no parliament, no assembly, no senate, no duma, no synod, nothing.
D) No, England doesn't have any capacity to enter into agreements with other states. As mentioned in C, England doesn't have a government to direct any such agreements.
God you sure as hell bullshit your way round answering questions
All i asked you do you think England is a country?
I answered you! No, it doesn't meet the internationally established criteria!
So you are saying you dont believe England is a country wow just wow i have no words
I wonder how many people in England share your views eh
So dont think their is 4 countries in the UK ? You do know the UK is a union of countries its not a country
Same as Britain is not a country its an island
Do you think Scandinavia is one country ?
Well let's apply those criteria to Scandinavia.
A) Yes, permanent residents
B) Yes, defined borders
C) No, no government of Scandinavia
D) No, no capacities to enter into agreements with other states. So no, Scandinavia is not a country.
What is your definition of what a country is?
Right lets try this one
The UK is union of countries. You claim the UK is one country
So by that logic are you calling the 27 independent countries in the EU one country or is that union of 27 independent countries ?
"I've answered several of your questions, you can do me the courtesy of answering mine. What is your definition of a country? Your definition has to apply to all countries around the world, and not split existing countries apart (with the exception of the UK) | |||
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" Shame on me for not wanting to see more r@pe victims? For not wanting to see more landmine victims? Shame on me for not wanting to see more refugees? For not wanting to see more civil war? I have absolutely zero shame in not wanting to see those things. More smoke and mirrors that deceive no one. So presumably you think independence of the colonies was wrong and you would have preferred continuation of the British Empire? For someone who claims to be forward thinking, your approval of authoritarian violence against self determination is shocking. No I wouldn't have preferred the continuation of the Empire. If you could provide a quote of where I have shown approval of "authoritarian violence against self determination" that would be great. In fact as you will see from the section where you have quoted me, I am very much against that. However you think that I should feel shame for being anti-civil war! " You've said you are against independance in general. So how was colonial independance ok? Simply denounce Spanish central action violently crushing the referendum then. Will you do that? | |||
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"Not quite hot on the heels of the Scottish referendum but possibly inspired by it the Catalonians hold a referendum for independence from Spain. The Spanish authorities declare the referendum illegal and respond with a show of force. This makes me appreciate living in a country where democracy is still king." I thought there was a large movement of people Inc politicians trying to overturn a democratic referendum in the UK (brexit) | |||
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" Shame on me for not wanting to see more r@pe victims? For not wanting to see more landmine victims? Shame on me for not wanting to see more refugees? For not wanting to see more civil war? I have absolutely zero shame in not wanting to see those things. More smoke and mirrors that deceive no one. So presumably you think independence of the colonies was wrong and you would have preferred continuation of the British Empire? For someone who claims to be forward thinking, your approval of authoritarian violence against self determination is shocking. No I wouldn't have preferred the continuation of the Empire. If you could provide a quote of where I have shown approval of "authoritarian violence against self determination" that would be great. In fact as you will see from the section where you have quoted me, I am very much against that. However you think that I should feel shame for being anti-civil war! You've said you are against independance in general. So how was colonial independance ok? Simply denounce Spanish central action violently crushing the referendum then. Will you do that?" Sure. | |||
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"Does anyone agree with me that Rajoy should have allowed the referendum to take place and then if he still wants to come out and say no referendum took place fair enough But no no he choose to order the Spanish police to beat the fuck out of people and then later on say no referendum took place he could have saved 700+ being injured today Prick!!!" Yes agree totally - Rajoy is not only responsible for the sicking violence today but has poked the biggest hornets nest possible amongst an already divided country - this will escalate and spiral out of control and he must be held accountable | |||
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"Spain has used military police against its citizens. I think now the EU the use of Article 7 Suspension of EU membership that uses military forces against its citizens." You'd be wrong. | |||
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"Spain has used military police against its citizens. I think now the EU the use of Article 7 Suspension of EU membership that uses military forces against its citizens." The French Army shot and killed presumably a French citizen yesterday. Are you going to suspend their membership too? | |||
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"Spain has used military police against its citizens. I think now the EU the use of Article 7 Suspension of EU membership that uses military forces against its citizens." Article 7 seems to be used when article 2 has been breached. Article 2 says about the importance of the rule of law (amongst other things), yet you have been calling for the suspension of the rule of law in Catalonia. Make your mind up! Out of interest kinky, did you come up with a definition of a country? | |||
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"wow ... what a gig! what a day! it truly is a momentous day for democracy when despite the remnants of a fascist dictatorship using extreme violence against the people, the people still manage to conduct a peaceful plebiscite for self-determination. catalunya has done itself proud today and proven that in the face of extreme totalitarian hostility, that the democratic right to vote is paramount and will be defended through peaceful means. la independencia catalana es inevitable "The eyes of the world were on them yesterday and one side will be remembered for looking like facist throwbacks. It’s inevitable now. Maybe a long time away but it will happen. Let’s hope the Basque region follow suit. | |||
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"Spain has used military police against its citizens. I think now the EU the use of Article 7 Suspension of EU membership that uses military forces against its citizens. Article 7 seems to be used when article 2 has been breached. Article 2 says about the importance of the rule of law (amongst other things), yet you have been calling for the suspension of the rule of law in Catalonia. Make your mind up! Out of interest kinky, did you come up with a definition of a country? " Innocent people queuing up to put a piece of paper in a box - What law exactly were they breaking to warrant being shot at? | |||
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"90% voted yes.Its game over for spain and the sweet smell of freedom this morning for Catalans. "In time let’s hope dude.
City States soon let’s also hope. | |||
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"90% voted yes.Its game over for spain and the sweet smell of freedom this morning for Catalans. "Spains action crushing the poll and violence used by them is disgusting and the vote should be allowed to happen. But any result from what happened under the circumstances yesterday isn't valid, as it would tend to be seperatist supporters willing to fight to vote. Hopefully it can be re-run without dictatorship style action by Madrid. Sad to see EU quiet on it, and luckily only one voice in here supportive of Madrid. | |||
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"90% voted yes.Its game over for spain and the sweet smell of freedom this morning for Catalans.
In time let’s hope dude.
City States soon let’s also hope. "The catalans are the vanguard of a new vision that moves away from centralized nation states. | |||
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"90% voted yes.Its game over for spain and the sweet smell of freedom this morning for Catalans.
In time let’s hope dude.
City States soon let’s also hope.
The catalans are the vanguard of a new vision that moves away from centralized nation states."The EU have the opposite view and prefer centralisation, preferably in Brussels. Once they have their European defence force they will be able to help quash any similar lawlessness from people with this audasticity. | |||
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"But how are they going to survive - economically? Apart from Barcelona what else have they got. Catalan is mainly agricultural & tourism. Given that Barcelona has demonstrated against tourism pretty vocally it doesn't help. Assuming they do declare independence what currency are they going to use - not so easy as people think. So who's next - Yorkshire? " It’s one of the Richest regions in Spain and is highly industrialised. It’s chemical and service sector is also rapidly growing. | |||
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"90% voted yes.Its game over for spain and the sweet smell of freedom this morning for Catalans. "I'm hearing that less than 50% of the eligible electorate actually voted. Of course the numbers are going to be skewed. There was no "NO" campaign, after all why should they vote in an illegal referendum and give it a sense of legitimacy? The Spanish Constitution, drawn up in 1970, does not allow for Spain to be broken up. The EU's response will be now be interesting. Should they side with Catalonia, then I can see Spain retaliating in some way. | |||
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"But how are they going to survive - economically? Apart from Barcelona what else have they got. Catalan is mainly agricultural & tourism. Given that Barcelona has demonstrated against tourism pretty vocally it doesn't help. Assuming they do declare independence what currency are they going to use - not so easy as people think. So who's next - Yorkshire? " Angola? | |||
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" The EU's response will be now be interesting. Should they side with Catalonia, then I can see Spain retaliating in some way." Juncker did say say in a televised interview that the EU would respect the outcome of the vote, that's why Spain were determined to stop the vote taking place by any means possible. Spain could ignore the outcome, but the EU said they wouldn't | |||
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"But how are they going to survive - economically? Apart from Barcelona what else have they got. Catalan is mainly agricultural & tourism. Given that Barcelona has demonstrated against tourism pretty vocally it doesn't help. Assuming they do declare independence what currency are they going to use - not so easy as people think. So who's next - Yorkshire? Angola?" Angola?! Wtf! | |||
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"But how are they going to survive - economically? Apart from Barcelona what else have they got. Catalan is mainly agricultural & tourism. Given that Barcelona has demonstrated against tourism pretty vocally it doesn't help. Assuming they do declare independence what currency are they going to use - not so easy as people think. So who's next - Yorkshire? Angola? Angola?! Wtf!" Andorra! | |||
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"90% voted yes.Its game over for spain and the sweet smell of freedom this morning for Catalans. "England Next | |||
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"But how are they going to survive - economically? Apart from Barcelona what else have they got. Catalan is mainly agricultural & tourism. Given that Barcelona has demonstrated against tourism pretty vocally it doesn't help. Assuming they do declare independence what currency are they going to use - not so easy as people think. So who's next - Yorkshire? It’s one of the Richest regions in Spain and is highly industrialised. It’s chemical and service sector is also rapidly growing. " It will be fine.They have all the institutions in place for independence.Theyve got a global brand and a vibrant forward thinking capital in Barcelona. | |||
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"But how are they going to survive - economically? Apart from Barcelona what else have they got. Catalan is mainly agricultural & tourism. Given that Barcelona has demonstrated against tourism pretty vocally it doesn't help. Assuming they do declare independence what currency are they going to use - not so easy as people think. So who's next - Yorkshire? " That's their business though. The decision might be right or wrong, but the issue is, they have the right to make the decision democratically themselves without central government stopping them. | |||
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"90% voted yes.Its game over for spain and the sweet smell of freedom this morning for Catalans.
In time let’s hope dude.
City States soon let’s also hope.
The catalans are the vanguard of a new vision that moves away from centralized nation states.
The EU have the opposite view and prefer centralisation, preferably in Brussels.
Once they have their European defence force they will be able to help quash any similar lawlessness from people with this audasticity."I very much doubt that the EU will condemn Spain's actions on this one. If they do it could encourage regions in other countries to go down the same route as the Catalans, something they are scared to death of. Also I haven't heard one leader from the 28 (inc May) condemn it either. However the lack of condemnation gives a free licence to other EU country's to violently suppress any other attempted regional breakaway. A very dangerous precedent has been set. On the referendum itself Rajoy has been stupid and arrogant and has made an enormous miscalculation. It would have been much better to have allowed the referendum and campaigned for a no vote which, with a decent campaign and full turn out, could have been won. Sending in the bully boys has only hardened the attitude of the separatists and antagonised pretty much everyone else. | |||
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"90% voted yes.Its game over for spain and the sweet smell of freedom this morning for Catalans.
In time let’s hope dude.
City States soon let’s also hope.
The catalans are the vanguard of a new vision that moves away from centralized nation states.
The EU have the opposite view and prefer centralisation, preferably in Brussels.
Once they have their European defence force they will be able to help quash any similar lawlessness from people with this audasticity.
I very much doubt that the EU will condemn Spain's actions on this one. If they do it could encourage regions in other countries to go down the same route as the Catalans, something they are scared to death of. Also I haven't heard one leader from the 28 (inc May) condemn it either.
However the lack of condemnation gives a free licence to other EU country's to violently suppress any other attempted regional breakaway. A very dangerous precedent has been set.
On the referendum itself Rajoy has been stupid and arrogant and has made an enormous miscalculation.
It would have been much better to have allowed the referendum and campaigned for a no vote which, with a decent campaign and full turn out, could have been won.
Sending in the bully boys has only hardened the attitude of the separatists and antagonised pretty much everyone else.
"tend to agree.. | |||
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" Personally I believe in the rule of law. I don't think something can be called democratic or democracy if it goes against the laws enacted by the democratically elected government. The people going forward with this illegal referendum are talking about smuggled ballot papers and ballot boxes and counting in secret. How can the result have any kind of legitimacy without independent oversight or scrutiny? And what if the law says you aren't allowed to vote. Do you believe in that? Yes. I seem to recall many people complaining about voting rights being extended to prisoners. Many people believed that the law shouldn't allow them to vote. So if voting became generally illegal you'd accept it? I assume you disapprove of Catalan independance hence your acceptance of the autoritarian crushing of the vote? I would like to think that the UK would not vote for a party that would make voting illegal, and that if they did, the supreme court would strike down any such legislation. Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ? You had it.
Bullshit answer try again please
Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
I know Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and it was a no vote but democracy DIDNT end in 2014 unless you now seem to think it did
It's the truth. Scotland had a referendum already.
If a party was elected to the SP, WA or NIA on a manifesto of changing education policy to teach Japanese in schools, could they do it? Yes, because it's in their remit. If they were elected on a manifesto of launching a first strike nuclear attack on North Korea, could they do it? No, because it's not in their remit.
The Scottish Parliament is not sovereign, Westminster is. The Scottish people can elect who they want to the Scottish Parliament, but that parliament only has limited powers. They haven't yet used all the powers they do have. It doesn't have the power to conduct a legally binding independence referendum. The power rests solely with Westminster. You can bitch and moan all you want, but that's the truth, and nothing is going to change that.
Why wont you answer my question. Do you accept Scotland elected a party into government on a manifesto to have the right to hold an independence referendum would you accept that as a mandate or not ?
Ah right so Scotland has to ask another countries government to have permission to hold a referendum eh when was the last time Scotland voted Tory again ?
''only has limited powers'' You said it yet Scotland was promised Home Rule do you think Scotland has Home Rule then ?
What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Let me take a wild guess raise tax ? Funny that Scottish Labour put that in a manifesto and Scotland rejected them
Ah right i get it so what your saying is shut the fuck up and eat your cerael there is that great Britishness eh some family of nations when Scotland votes for a party to hold a referendum and yet people in another country tell us to shit up and we cant do nothing about it. Thank you so much
"oh do I detect disharmony here? ha ha ha | |||
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"so a 90% yes vote on a 42% turnout..... so those who boycotted this weren in the majority... i don't see how the catalonian president can declare independence now...." Boycotted or too intimidated to vote when they saw what was happening | |||
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"so a 90% yes vote on a 42% turnout..... so those who boycotted this weren in the majority... i don't see how the catalonian president can declare independence now...." I don't think we can say 58% boycotted it. Maybe they didn't want battoning by riot Police is more likely. However, I agree the result can't be held as valid, as it would be those with strong Leave feelings who would be willing to run the gauntlet of the violence. | |||
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"so a 90% yes vote on a 42% turnout..... so those who boycotted this weren in the majority... i don't see how the catalonian president can declare independence now.... I don't think we can say 58% boycotted it. Maybe they didn't want battoning by riot Police is more likely. However, I agree the result can't be held as valid, as it would be those with strong Leave feelings who would be willing to run the gauntlet of the violence." That sums it up about right for me. | |||
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"so a 90% yes vote on a 42% turnout..... so those who boycotted this weren in the majority... i don't see how the catalonian president can declare independence now.... I don't think we can say 58% boycotted it. Maybe they didn't want battoning by riot Police is more likely. However, I agree the result can't be held as valid, as it would be those with strong Leave feelings who would be willing to run the gauntlet of the violence." 2.2 million were prepared to get beaten for their right to vote. Who knows how the others would of voted.They had a choice yes or no or leave it blank. A Catalan spokesman said more than 750,000 votes could not be counted because polling stations were closed and urns were confiscated. | |||
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"so a 90% yes vote on a 42% turnout..... so those who boycotted this weren in the majority... i don't see how the catalonian president can declare independence now.... I don't think we can say 58% boycotted it. Maybe they didn't want battoning by riot Police is more likely. However, I agree the result can't be held as valid, as it would be those with strong Leave feelings who would be willing to run the gauntlet of the violence. 2.2 million were prepared to get beaten for their right to vote. Who knows how the others would of voted.They had a choice yes or no or leave it blank. A Catalan spokesman said more than 750,000 votes could not be counted because polling stations were closed and urns were confiscated." This is a wake up call for Spain, Catalonia has been hinting at independene for years. Coincidentally we had a friend stay with us last night who is part Catalan and her opinion was 'not before time'. Perhaps this vote by it's very nature cannot be seen to be legal and binding but given the strength of public feeling surrounding it i think it's time that these people were given the right to choose in a properly recognised and legal referendum. | |||
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"The catalans are the vanguard of a new vision that moves away from centralized nation states." Into a nation state inside a centralised United States of Europe? | |||
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"so a 90% yes vote on a 42% turnout..... so those who boycotted this weren in the majority... i don't see how the catalonian president can declare independence now.... I don't think we can say 58% boycotted it. Maybe they didn't want battoning by riot Police is more likely. However, I agree the result can't be held as valid, as it would be those with strong Leave feelings who would be willing to run the gauntlet of the violence. 2.2 million were prepared to get beaten for their right to vote. Who knows how the others would of voted.They had a choice yes or no or leave it blank. A Catalan spokesman said more than 750,000 votes could not be counted because polling stations were closed and urns were confiscated." Yes, and they should be proud for doing so. But an election under those conditions is unsafe. It needs to be run fairly without Madrid's intervention. All the people in Catalonia need to decide the outcome fairly without fear of state violence against them. | |||
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"Spain has used military police against its citizens. I think now the EU the use of Article 7 Suspension of EU membership that uses military forces against its citizens. Article 7 seems to be used when article 2 has been breached. Article 2 says about the importance of the rule of law (amongst other things), yet you have been calling for the suspension of the rule of law in Catalonia. Make your mind up! Out of interest kinky, did you come up with a definition of a country? " Interesting so which law were Catalan people breaking when they were standing with their hands up showing no threat to anyone and the Spanish police beat the fuck out them That is a breach of human rights To attack your own citzens for what wanting to use their right to vote. A man had a fucking heart attack and people trying to save his live and yet the Spanish police thought its a good idea to attack them nothing but scumbags | |||
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"Spain has used military police against its citizens. I think now the EU the use of Article 7 Suspension of EU membership that uses military forces against its citizens. Article 7 seems to be used when article 2 has been breached. Article 2 says about the importance of the rule of law (amongst other things), yet you have been calling for the suspension of the rule of law in Catalonia. Make your mind up! Out of interest kinky, did you come up with a definition of a country? Interesting so which law were Catalan people breaking when they were standing with their hands up showing no threat to anyone and the Spanish police beat the fuck out them That is a breach of human rights To attack your own citzens for what wanting to use their right to vote. A man had a fucking heart attack and people trying to save his live and yet the Spanish police thought its a good idea to attack them nothing but scumbags " You didn't know that the referendum was illegal? Why do you think the police were there if it was legal? How's that definition of what constitutes a country coming? Still working on it? | |||
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" That is a breach of human rights To attack your own citzens for what wanting to use their right to vote. A man had a fucking heart attack and people trying to save his live and yet the Spanish police thought its a good idea to attack them nothing but scumbags You didn't know that the referendum was illegal? Why do you think the police were there if it was legal? How's that definition of what constitutes a country coming? Still working on it? " Nice to see you diverting a discussion onto semantics because you don't like the subject again. Will you be posting support for the Chinese for crushing pro-democracy supporters too? That's against the law in China, you'll support that on this basis. | |||
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" That is a breach of human rights To attack your own citzens for what wanting to use their right to vote. A man had a fucking heart attack and people trying to save his live and yet the Spanish police thought its a good idea to attack them nothing but scumbags You didn't know that the referendum was illegal? Why do you think the police were there if it was legal? How's that definition of what constitutes a country coming? Still working on it? Nice to see you diverting a discussion onto semantics because you don't like the subject again. Will you be posting support for the Chinese for crushing pro-democracy supporters too? That's against the law in China, you'll support that on this basis." The Catalonia referendum is against the law written by democratically elected leaders. China doesn't have a proper democracy. | |||
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" That is a breach of human rights To attack your own citzens for what wanting to use their right to vote. A man had a fucking heart attack and people trying to save his live and yet the Spanish police thought its a good idea to attack them nothing but scumbags You didn't know that the referendum was illegal? Why do you think the police were there if it was legal? How's that definition of what constitutes a country coming? Still working on it? Nice to see you diverting a discussion onto semantics because you don't like the subject again. Will you be posting support for the Chinese for crushing pro-democracy supporters too? That's against the law in China, you'll support that on this basis." The Jim Crow Laws was the rule of law. Be interesting to see who would support that while blithely robotically repeating Respect the rule of law. | |||
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" That is a breach of human rights To attack your own citzens for what wanting to use their right to vote. A man had a fucking heart attack and people trying to save his live and yet the Spanish police thought its a good idea to attack them nothing but scumbags You didn't know that the referendum was illegal? Why do you think the police were there if it was legal? How's that definition of what constitutes a country coming? Still working on it? Nice to see you diverting a discussion onto semantics because you don't like the subject again. Will you be posting support for the Chinese for crushing pro-democracy supporters too? That's against the law in China, you'll support that on this basis. The Jim Crow Laws was the rule of law. Be interesting to see who would support that while blithely robotically repeating Respect the rule of law. " They were, and they were repealed by democratically elected leaders | |||
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"Spain has used military police against its citizens. I think now the EU the use of Article 7 Suspension of EU membership that uses military forces against its citizens. Article 7 seems to be used when article 2 has been breached. Article 2 says about the importance of the rule of law (amongst other things), yet you have been calling for the suspension of the rule of law in Catalonia. Make your mind up! Out of interest kinky, did you come up with a definition of a country? Interesting so which law were Catalan people breaking when they were standing with their hands up showing no threat to anyone and the Spanish police beat the fuck out them That is a breach of human rights To attack your own citzens for what wanting to use their right to vote. A man had a fucking heart attack and people trying to save his live and yet the Spanish police thought its a good idea to attack them nothing but scumbags You didn't know that the referendum was illegal? Why do you think the police were there if it was legal? How's that definition of what constitutes a country coming? Still working on it? " Ah right so your by passing the fact police were attacking people that were standing there peaceful with their hands up showing no threat. Did you know that the Spanish parliament had a vote and rejected the way Rajoy's government were acting with Catalonia ? Did you know Rajoy party is a minority government where the party in government need help to pass things ? So Rajoy is clearly acting like a dictatorship against the very people he wants to remain part of Spain. Also he said on live tv last night the Catalan referendum never happened then why order Spanish police to beat the fuck out of people. He could have choose to ignore the referendum and then came out and said no referendum took place and saving 800+ people from getting injured Right now the referendum is not on my fucking mind thats for later on how to solve it and come out peaceful The bigger picture right now is 800+ people are injured because of these scumbags and should be held to account of their actions or are people saying they do not care about police attacking the very people they are suppose to project at all times | |||
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" That is a breach of human rights To attack your own citzens for what wanting to use their right to vote. A man had a fucking heart attack and people trying to save his live and yet the Spanish police thought its a good idea to attack them nothing but scumbags You didn't know that the referendum was illegal? Why do you think the police were there if it was legal? How's that definition of what constitutes a country coming? Still working on it? Nice to see you diverting a discussion onto semantics because you don't like the subject again. Will you be posting support for the Chinese for crushing pro-democracy supporters too? That's against the law in China, you'll support that on this basis. The Jim Crow Laws was the rule of law. Be interesting to see who would support that while blithely robotically repeating Respect the rule of law. They were, and they were repealed by democratically elected leaders "And how did they get repealed? How many people fought hard for their voices to be heard? Probably while Larpers like you stood by tutting. | |||
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" That is a breach of human rights To attack your own citzens for what wanting to use their right to vote. A man had a fucking heart attack and people trying to save his live and yet the Spanish police thought its a good idea to attack them nothing but scumbags You didn't know that the referendum was illegal? Why do you think the police were there if it was legal? How's that definition of what constitutes a country coming? Still working on it? Nice to see you diverting a discussion onto semantics because you don't like the subject again. Will you be posting support for the Chinese for crushing pro-democracy supporters too? That's against the law in China, you'll support that on this basis. The Catalonia referendum is against the law written by democratically elected leaders. China doesn't have a proper democracy. " It has laws. You are supportive of stopping the referendum on the basis it is 'illegal' (or that's your stated reason anyway). Catalonia wants independence. They only have 20% of the national population. You know full well that the law won't change to allow it. They have organised a peaceful referendum, to find the will of the population that area. I think you, like the EU, are fundamentally opposed to fragmentation. Therefore you are plucking reasons that the vote should be stopped. To me this shows you do not believe truly in democracy, but with methods that result in the realisation of YOUR ideals. | |||
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" That is a breach of human rights To attack your own citzens for what wanting to use their right to vote. A man had a fucking heart attack and people trying to save his live and yet the Spanish police thought its a good idea to attack them nothing but scumbags You didn't know that the referendum was illegal? Why do you think the police were there if it was legal? How's that definition of what constitutes a country coming? Still working on it? Nice to see you diverting a discussion onto semantics because you don't like the subject again. Will you be posting support for the Chinese for crushing pro-democracy supporters too? That's against the law in China, you'll support that on this basis. The Jim Crow Laws was the rule of law. Be interesting to see who would support that while blithely robotically repeating Respect the rule of law. They were, and they were repealed by democratically elected leaders
And how did they get repealed?
How many people fought hard for their voices to be heard?
Probably while Larpers like you stood by tutting. "They got repealed legally, people didn't just disregard the rule of law and become anarchists which you seem to be suggesting. | |||
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" They got repealed legally, people didn't just disregard the rule of law and become anarchists which you seem to be suggesting. " In what world is a referendum anarchy? | |||
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" That is a breach of human rights To attack your own citzens for what wanting to use their right to vote. A man had a fucking heart attack and people trying to save his live and yet the Spanish police thought its a good idea to attack them nothing but scumbags You didn't know that the referendum was illegal? Why do you think the police were there if it was legal? How's that definition of what constitutes a country coming? Still working on it? Nice to see you diverting a discussion onto semantics because you don't like the subject again. Will you be posting support for the Chinese for crushing pro-democracy supporters too? That's against the law in China, you'll support that on this basis. The Jim Crow Laws was the rule of law. Be interesting to see who would support that while blithely robotically repeating Respect the rule of law. They were, and they were repealed by democratically elected leaders
And how did they get repealed?
How many people fought hard for their voices to be heard?
Probably while Larpers like you stood by tutting. "You have a point you just need to look at the civil rights movement. If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. Said someone famous i can't remember who . | |||
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" That is a breach of human rights To attack your own citzens for what wanting to use their right to vote. A man had a fucking heart attack and people trying to save his live and yet the Spanish police thought its a good idea to attack them nothing but scumbags You didn't know that the referendum was illegal? Why do you think the police were there if it was legal? How's that definition of what constitutes a country coming? Still working on it? Nice to see you diverting a discussion onto semantics because you don't like the subject again. Will you be posting support for the Chinese for crushing pro-democracy supporters too? That's against the law in China, you'll support that on this basis. The Catalonia referendum is against the law written by democratically elected leaders. China doesn't have a proper democracy. It has laws. You are supportive of stopping the referendum on the basis it is 'illegal' (or that's your stated reason anyway). Catalonia wants independence. They only have 20% of the national population. You know full well that the law won't change to allow it. They have organised a peaceful referendum, to find the will of the population that area. I think you, like the EU, are fundamentally opposed to fragmentation. Therefore you are plucking reasons that the vote should be stopped. To me this shows you do not believe truly in democracy, but with methods that result in the realisation of YOUR ideals." Scotland are only 8% of the UK population, yet Labour were elected on a devolution manifesto in 1997. If that happens for 8%, why cant it happen for 20%? You seem to be very pro Catalan independence, yet as far as I am aware are not Catalan. If you can have that view, why do you think that someone in Madrid, or Granada, or Malaga couldn't also share that view? | |||
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" They got repealed legally, people didn't just disregard the rule of law and become anarchists which you seem to be suggesting. In what world is a referendum anarchy?" Well do you believe in the rule or law or not? | |||
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" You have a point you just need to look at the civil rights movement. If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. Said someone famous i can't remember who . "I think you are missing the objective of the poster. The creation a homogeneous state is more important than fundamental democracy. | |||
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" That is a breach of human rights To attack your own citzens for what wanting to use their right to vote. A man had a fucking heart attack and people trying to save his live and yet the Spanish police thought its a good idea to attack them nothing but scumbags You didn't know that the referendum was illegal? Why do you think the police were there if it was legal? How's that definition of what constitutes a country coming? Still working on it? Nice to see you diverting a discussion onto semantics because you don't like the subject again. Will you be posting support for the Chinese for crushing pro-democracy supporters too? That's against the law in China, you'll support that on this basis. The Jim Crow Laws was the rule of law. Be interesting to see who would support that while blithely robotically repeating Respect the rule of law. They were, and they were repealed by democratically elected leaders
And how did they get repealed?
How many people fought hard for their voices to be heard?
Probably while Larpers like you stood by tutting.
You have a point you just need to look at the civil rights movement.
If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.
Said someone famous i can't remember who . "Thomas Jefferson | |||
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" That is a breach of human rights To attack your own citzens for what wanting to use their right to vote. A man had a fucking heart attack and people trying to save his live and yet the Spanish police thought its a good idea to attack them nothing but scumbags You didn't know that the referendum was illegal? Why do you think the police were there if it was legal? How's that definition of what constitutes a country coming? Still working on it? Nice to see you diverting a discussion onto semantics because you don't like the subject again. Will you be posting support for the Chinese for crushing pro-democracy supporters too? That's against the law in China, you'll support that on this basis. The Jim Crow Laws was the rule of law. Be interesting to see who would support that while blithely robotically repeating Respect the rule of law. They were, and they were repealed by democratically elected leaders
And how did they get repealed?
How many people fought hard for their voices to be heard?
Probably while Larpers like you stood by tutting.
You have a point you just need to look at the civil rights movement.
If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.
Said someone famous i can't remember who . "I guess it just boils down to a question of character. I know who would be manning the barricades and who wouldn’t be. | |||
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" They got repealed legally, people didn't just disregard the rule of law and become anarchists which you seem to be suggesting. In what world is a referendum anarchy? Well do you believe in the rule or law or not? " I really can't be arsed having a 'discussion' with you about it any more. The region wanted a peaceful, democratic referendum. It was stopped by authoritarian state violence. Your dogmatic mind is happy for that to happen. Luckily the overwhelming majority of other people think it stinks. | |||
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" That is a breach of human rights To attack your own citzens for what wanting to use their right to vote. A man had a fucking heart attack and people trying to save his live and yet the Spanish police thought its a good idea to attack them nothing but scumbags You didn't know that the referendum was illegal? Why do you think the police were there if it was legal? How's that definition of what constitutes a country coming? Still working on it? Nice to see you diverting a discussion onto semantics because you don't like the subject again. Will you be posting support for the Chinese for crushing pro-democracy supporters too? That's against the law in China, you'll support that on this basis. The Jim Crow Laws was the rule of law. Be interesting to see who would support that while blithely robotically repeating Respect the rule of law. They were, and they were repealed by democratically elected leaders
And how did they get repealed?
How many people fought hard for their voices to be heard?
Probably while Larpers like you stood by tutting.
You have a point you just need to look at the civil rights movement.
If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.
Said someone famous i can't remember who .
I guess it just boils down to a question of character. I know who would be manning the barricades and who wouldn’t be. "This is true.I really think if you ignore injustice you've choosen the oppressors.Like or not. | |||
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" They got repealed legally, people didn't just disregard the rule of law and become anarchists which you seem to be suggesting. In what world is a referendum anarchy? Well do you believe in the rule or law or not? I really can't be arsed having a 'discussion' with you about it any more. The region wanted a peaceful, democratic referendum. It was stopped by authoritarian state violence. Your dogmatic mind is happy for that to happen. Luckily the overwhelming majority of other people think it stinks." Not once have I condoned the violence, I told you about the work I have done with pro-independence campaigners who have been hurt more than the campaigners in Catalonia, and you told me to be ashamed of that. Well I'm not. | |||
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