FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > So, how do you solve a problem like Korea?
So, how do you solve a problem like Korea?
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"N Korea launched a missile over Japan - what is he trying to achieve and what, if anything, should be done about it?"
what he basically showed people is that he had a guam-distanced weapon without aiming it at guam and basically enflaming that whole issue again...
so aiming it over japan was the lesser of two evils....
lets see if they get away with it....
see if i was the US the temptation would be to launch a cruise missile and aim it at a point where it lands in the sea, but takes it directly over pyongyang at a high enough level to get the message across that two can play at that... |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I think the Japanese should man up and get in there and kick the fat little midgets arse and stop relying on the USA to do it for them"
under japanese law and the agreement at the end of WW2 japan are not allowed to produce there own weaponry.... |
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"N Korea launched a missile over Japan - what is he trying to achieve and what, if anything, should be done about it?
what he basically showed people is that he had a guam-distanced weapon without aiming it at guam and basically enflaming that whole issue again...
so aiming it over japan was the lesser of two evils....
lets see if they get away with it....
see if i was the US the temptation would be to launch a cruise missile and aim it at a point where it lands in the sea, but takes it directly over pyongyang at a high enough level to get the message across that two can play at that..."
Problem is if the US is not careful, it may be forced into a "war" it is not prepared to participate in. All this provocation is to see what its boundaries are... Silent, it would be weak, react, can it afford to do so?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the Japanese should man up and get in there and kick the fat little midgets arse and stop relying on the USA to do it for them"
I think they should send in the ninjas.Job done.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the Japanese should man up and get in there and kick the fat little midgets arse and stop relying on the USA to do it for them
under japanese law and the agreement at the end of WW2 japan are not allowed to produce there own weaponry...."
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Oooohhh it's changed as little in the last few years with rising Chinese tensions.
The Japanese are rearming, turns out the last samurai wasn't quite the last one |
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Here is the truth...
There is a war between N. Korea (with Chinese [and Russian] support) and the UN. It has been going going on since the 1950's. Every now and then the N. Koreans shell or launch small scale raids into S. Korea or it's Western supporting (backed) neighbours relying on Chinese backing to ensure their territorial security. This will continue and continue to escalate until someone calls Beijing's (and Moscow's) bluff and hits N. Korea so hard that the Kim family and their military enforcers work out that they are not the hard men they think they are. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"N Korea launched a missile over Japan - what is he trying to achieve and what, if anything, should be done about it?"
It's too late now.
If the 1995 plan put forward by Bill Clinton hadn't been trashed by G.W Bush because he wanted to look tough (sound familiar?) then we would well be looking with a less hostile NK.
As it stands, they have no reason to back down, and certainly no reason to believe the US can be relied upon to live up to their commitments.
They're doing the only rational thing they can, acquiring nuclear weapons, and making it abundantly clear that any attempt by an outside force to unseat the Kim dynasty will be exceptionally costly to anyone who would try. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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When you see him on TV he comes across as a kid that has just seen someone let off a firework or heard an enormous rip razzler LOL. What a strange place NK must be. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"N Korea launched a missile over Japan - what is he trying to achieve and what, if anything, should be done about it?"
Congratulate Kim and tell him the world thinks he's great .. Invite him to various countries and put his pic on front cover of times magazine. Confuse him for years |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"N Korea launched a missile over Japan - what is he trying to achieve and what, if anything, should be done about it?"
Seriously, it's a response to huge military exercises near NK.
The only real way is a political solution. Patronising them isn't the way forward |
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"I really dont believe the kid with bad hair cut is the man in charge.Hes a figure head.Im sure he believes hes in control like all puppets."
Not too sure about that - he has a habit of blowing his opponents to pieces with AA guns which tends to make people at least think you are in charge. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When you see him on TV he comes across as a kid that has just seen someone let off a firework or heard an enormous rip razzler LOL. What a strange place NK must be."
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Its a very strange place indeed handed down from dad to son to grandson with continuity of NO CHANGE affirmed with each one.
Effectively North and south Korea are still at war and are only in armistice.
The North now is so entrenched in its perceptions of the world its for all intents and purposes a hopeless cause, no amount of dialogue or treaties will change its course, its a 70 year fucking disaster waiting to happen |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I love that fab has a politics forum, I had no idea until now! When did this happen?
To stick to topic, there is no resolution. The inferiority complex which Kim Jong Un suffers from is just a recipe for disaster.
It's a problem that cannot be solved, to fight fire with fire would result in bloodshed. But to ignore it may do the exact same.
The world can only attack in response, it would put every country in grave danger to attack to prevent. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I really dont believe the kid with bad hair cut is the man in charge.Hes a figure head.Im sure he believes hes in control like all puppets.
Not too sure about that - he has a habit of blowing his opponents to pieces with AA guns which tends to make people at least think you are in charge."
How do we know he ordered the removal of opponents. I think he's a puppet of the miltary regime.When his father died there could have been a silent coup. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I really dont believe the kid with bad hair cut is the man in charge.Hes a figure head.Im sure he believes hes in control like all puppets.
Not too sure about that - he has a habit of blowing his opponents to pieces with AA guns which tends to make people at least think you are in charge. How do we know he ordered the removal of opponents. I think he's a puppet of the miltary regime.When his father died there could have been a silent coup."
Could have been a chicken coup? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Whilst the regime is oppressive, dictatorial and without question, corrupt, you do have to look at history to understand some of the psyche of the North Koreans.
During the Korean war, it was an incredibly vicious war in which the USA used tactics such as firebombing and carpet bombing whole cities, causing a greater level of destruction than in either Japan or Germany during WW2. The campaign can easily be seen as an attempt to wipe the North Koreans from the face of the Earth, so when you have the US Army and South Koreans doing military games off the Korean peninsula every year, who is going to feel that the 'enemy' is more of an existential threat to their country and people?
Not to defend the North Koreans, but just to see the US continued actions and strategy in a geopolitical context. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Find out the details of those within Kim's reigime, high up to low down.
Remove them systematically in one day, cut off the head of a snake, move in with western militaries and humanitarian aid for the poor sods who are malnourished, secure any warheads.
Of course this is on the basis that there is the will break international law and human rights in order to remove a potential threat.
This is the only way I can see 'solving' North Korea without another peninsula war involving active use of Hydrogen warheads. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I really don't think they are a threat. It's a just a show of strength in their eyes. They have a bad case of little man syndrome. When push comes to shove they will back down, and if it does come to that they will get crushed.
Let them do whatever weaponry tests they want as it's hypocritical for the US and UK to knock them for it. But if they start any aggression with other countries they should be dealt with severely and could easily be. I'm pretty sure they know that. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I really don't think they are a threat. It's a just a show of strength in their eyes. They have a bad case of little man syndrome. When push comes to shove they will back down, and if it does come to that they will get crushed.
Let them do whatever weaponry tests they want as it's hypocritical for the US and UK to knock them for it. But if they start any aggression with other countries they should be dealt with severely and could easily be. I'm pretty sure they know that. "
So wait until they nuke another country before taking action? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I really don't think they are a threat. It's a just a show of strength in their eyes. They have a bad case of little man syndrome. When push comes to shove they will back down, and if it does come to that they will get crushed.
Let them do whatever weaponry tests they want as it's hypocritical for the US and UK to knock them for it. But if they start any aggression with other countries they should be dealt with severely and could easily be. I'm pretty sure they know that.
So wait until they nuke another country before taking action? "
Which country?
I would argue as soon as they nuked anyone they would be incinerated themselves.I doubt they are suicidal. Much like Iran. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I really don't think they are a threat. It's a just a show of strength in their eyes. They have a bad case of little man syndrome. When push comes to shove they will back down, and if it does come to that they will get crushed.
Let them do whatever weaponry tests they want as it's hypocritical for the US and UK to knock them for it. But if they start any aggression with other countries they should be dealt with severely and could easily be. I'm pretty sure they know that.
So wait until they nuke another country before taking action? Which country?
I would argue as soon as they nuked anyone they would be incinerated themselves.I doubt they are suicidal. Much like Iran. "
But millions of people might be dead by then. How about if London was the city they hit first before NK got wiped out? |
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"Which country?
I would argue as soon as they nuked anyone they would be incinerated themselves.I doubt they are suicidal. Much like Iran. "
Bob, do you know the military history of N Korea over the last 65 years? Have you any idea of how many times the North has attacked the South? Do you realise the North shells the south quite regularly? Do you understand that the North sinks ships in the northern Yellow Sea all the time? Do you understand that the North regularly raids the South taking hostages for ransom as well as just plain theft and killing raids? Like it or not at a point in the not too distant future N Korea will order the world to hand over South Korea to it or face nuclear war. Our only real hope of this not happening is if China reverses its policy of protecting the North and the North is either absorbed into China. I would suggest this is not going to happen because China considers the Korean people to be inferior to Chinese and only good for servants. Or the West grow some balls and destroy the North's military power making it clear that if China or Russia interfere it will mean a world war. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I really don't think they are a threat. It's a just a show of strength in their eyes. They have a bad case of little man syndrome. When push comes to shove they will back down, and if it does come to that they will get crushed.
Let them do whatever weaponry tests they want as it's hypocritical for the US and UK to knock them for it. But if they start any aggression with other countries they should be dealt with severely and could easily be. I'm pretty sure they know that.
So wait until they nuke another country before taking action? "
Take action now. But what i'm saying is they won't nuke anyone because they know for a fact they would get incinerated. It's all a show. |
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The UNSC should grow some balls and stand up to that fat little despot! The misery he and his family has caused the people of NK and beyond is totally unforgivable. He, along with the Russians are distabling the west, they both sound be held accountable. We all want peace, but it's these idiots who have power, who seek to gain more influence by any means that are a threat to us all. We must stand up to these bullies, the time for diplomacy is long gone. South Korea and Japan are threatened. Now the US is a target for the dictators warheads. Surely now is the time to say fuck you back! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the Japanese should man up and get in there and kick the fat little midgets arse and stop relying on the USA to do it for them"
they are coming to USA the will kill all of us n Korean n Russian only will live
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What are the yanks getting involved for. Korea and Japan are a long way away from the USA. "
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Guam ,Hawaii, Alaska and the West coast are all within striking distance, they've threatened to nuke America several times in the last twenty years dad and son, there demigods of the highest sort, the news reader almost wet her pants in enthusiasm,it's enthusiasm generated by firing squad but eventually it just becomes the norm.
They hate their own people let alone the West |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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MAD works for us.It will work for North Korea.Same for Iran.They both have the expertise to create the bomb.Its inevitable theyll make a warhead .They both feel threaten.Back to diplomacy is the answer.
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"MAD works for us.It will work for North Korea.Same for Iran.They both have the expertise to create the bomb.Its inevitable theyll make a warhead .They both feel threaten.Back to diplomacy is the answer.
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There is no comparison between Iran and N Korea other than the fallacies spun by the USA to justify its continuing policy of supporting Saudi Arabia and attacking Iran because Saudi allows US corporations unfettered access to its market (and therefore to its oil revenues) while Iran has actively blocked US corporate efforts to infiltrate its market and profit from its wealth. |
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"What are the yanks getting involved for. Korea and Japan are a long way away from the USA. "
Coz they are getting a hard on at the thought of being able to facilitate a unified Korea, giving them almost direct access to China,thee ability to have massed us troops within walking distance of the Chinese border.
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"What are the yanks getting involved for. Korea and Japan are a long way away from the USA.
Coz they are getting a hard on at the thought of being able to facilitate a unified Korea, giving them almost direct access to China,thee ability to have massed us troops within walking distance of the Chinese border.
"
China isnt so keen though. |
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"What are the yanks getting involved for. Korea and Japan are a long way away from the USA.
Coz they are getting a hard on at the thought of being able to facilitate a unified Korea, giving them almost direct access to China,thee ability to have massed us troops within walking distance of the Chinese border.
China isnt so keen though."
Exactly and it's why China aren't rushing to stop N Korea |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"What are the yanks getting involved for. Korea and Japan are a long way away from the USA.
Coz they are getting a hard on at the thought of being able to facilitate a unified Korea, giving them almost direct access to China,thee ability to have massed us troops within walking distance of the Chinese border.
China isnt so keen though.
Exactly and it's why China aren't rushing to stop N Korea"
the other reason why china isn't keen is that it will also mean 30 million refugees fleeing for the chinese border.....
china does have 1 trump card but they won't play it.... if they cut of oil supplies that would be it for kim
kim chose the timing deliberately to embarass the chinese at the beginning of their major conference... it was as much of an up your to them as it was to the US!
the interesting thing about the US response was the messenger.... you can bluster about trump basically playing "who has the biggest dick"..... but this was "mad dog" mattis and i think this one will be taken much more seriously |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What are the yanks getting involved for. Korea and Japan are a long way away from the USA.
Coz they are getting a hard on at the thought of being able to facilitate a unified Korea, giving them almost direct access to China,thee ability to have massed us troops within walking distance of the Chinese border.
China isnt so keen though."
But when that exact scenario is Russia with the Ukraine you find yourself siding with America the EU and NATO?.
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There are a couple of points here that need correcting
"What are the yanks getting involved for. Korea and Japan are a long way away from the USA. "
The USA is not getting involved. It has been involved since 1952 and its roll has been the same all the time: That is as the lead nation of the UN armed forces that are at war with N Korea and as the guarantee of S Koreas freedom.
"
china does have 1 trump card but they won't play it.... if they cut of oil supplies that would be it "
This is not the case for a number of reasons. Firstly china is a net crude importer, so although it is a major petrochemical exporter that industry is mainly based in refining crude oil not producing it. This mistake is understandable as the West and China are no keen on this titbit becoming public knowledge so it is not spoken about. You also fail to take into account that there is only one major power that has an active policy of destabilising democracies and not only does it have a land border with N Korea and it is also happens to be the largest crude oil exporter in the world. Its name if you haven't worked it out is Russia. Further within 60 miles of the Russian N Korean border is one of Russia's largest military industrial cities and regions that was totally closed to to outsiders until recently and is home to the Russian Pacific Fleet, its name is Vladivostok. In reality Russia not China are calling the shots and it would not surprise me if it eventually emerges that it is Russia who have been aiding N Korea to develop both a H bomb and missile delivery system. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Geo politics is all about balls and dominance, were governed by maniacs for maniacal objectives!...
Meh, I've given up giving a shit what happens to us, we sort of deserve what's coming but I still feel sad about it, most people are good but we just can't help letting the bad cunts run us because good people have this notion that bad people might change.
Were delusional at best, we hope for the best but fear the worst, it's the same fucking thing |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's questionable whether the technology exists to take these weapons out, following their launch - the USA may have limited capabilities. "
I question the norths ability to target anything accurately with their missiles.Fireing a missle into the sea doesnt count. I doubt they can load a warhead on a missle.The recent test wasn't a H bomb as they said it was a A bomb.I do think we should attempt to shoot down any missles fired.
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"I question the norths ability to target anything accurately with their missiles.Fireing a missle into the sea doesnt count. I doubt they can load a warhead on a missle.The recent test wasn't a H bomb as they said it was a A bomb.I do think we should attempt to shoot down any missles fired."
There is a lot of information on the net about thermonuclear yields, blast and EMP ranges, immediate and persistent radiation fallout and how the different types of bursts effect the above. You may want to go and do some reading. You will quickly learn that when your talking about a weapon with a yield measured in hundreds of kilotonnes or even megatonnes you dont need to be accurate to cause devastation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Has the USA created the North Korea today?
Perhaps if sfter the cease fire a less aggressive approach would have been better.
Shkuld the West change tac on negotiations with nk
seeing as they are close to a nuclear capacity the options are;
1. Attack them now. Invade and risk war with China
2. Let nk develop nuclear weapons and negotiate
3. Sanctions
Given yhat the USA's policy over the years has given us the North Korea today, the option is 2.
Seriously!
Not ideal but what kim wants is a defence against the West and he's suceeded |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Just to add, seeing the usa's foreign policy against nk over the years, plus the multiple countries invaded / destabilised by tbe usa I'm not suprised nk is after a nuclear weapons to defend themselves |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There's only one solution I know of.
The USA has to withdraw military troops from south Korea and surrounding bases on a pro rata deal with North Korea giving up nuclear ambitions.
With this option China will bring North Korea under its wing |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There's only one solution I know of.
The USA has to withdraw military troops from south Korea and surrounding bases on a pro rata deal with North Korea giving up nuclear ambitions.
With this option China will bring North Korea under its wing"
Sounds good to me  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There's only one solution I know of.
The USA has to withdraw military troops from south Korea and surrounding bases on a pro rata deal with North Korea giving up nuclear ambitions.
With this option China will bring North Korea under its wing"
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Trouble is big tough Trump will think he'd lose face. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There's only one solution I know of.
The USA has to withdraw military troops from south Korea and surrounding bases on a pro rata deal with North Korea giving up nuclear ambitions.
With this option China will bring North Korea under its wing.
Trouble is big tough Trump will think he'd lose face. "
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Don't confuse us foreign policy and presidents, it doesn't change, democratic or republican or trump... Afghanistan and Syria prove that |
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Why does everyone continue with this NK are being threatened meme?
Here are the simple facts! (Google them if you don't believe me.)
In 1950 NORTH Korea INVADED South Korea.
The UNITED NATIONS raised a UN army under the command of General Douglas MacArthur with the USA providing the bulk of the force with orders to expel the NORTH KOREANS from South Korea.
The Chinese openly came to the aid of the N Koreans, the USSR also aided the N Koreans but covertly.
In 1953 the N Koreans, Chinese and Soviets were fought to a standstill (total NK/China/USSR losses estimated to be over 1 million) and the armistice and DMZ was agreed.
Since then NORTH KOREA keep breaking that armistice and attacking S Korea and their other neighbours (other than China).
N Korea ARE the AGGRESSORS! Appeasement has not worked in 55 years, it is not going to work now. If they are not smashed now THEY WILL use their nuclear firepower to attack anyone they can reach.
Now this next bit is my reading of what will happen.
Donny will bottle it and back down. NK will continue launching missiles into the sea until they have a missile that can hit all of the USA. Then they will go quiet until they have a large enough arsenal of warheads. Then they will launch a 'preemptive' strike on the USA and plunge the world into a nuclear world war.
If I am incorrect about donny small hands and he does grow some balls I think Russia and China will not interfere. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why does everyone continue with this NK are being threatened meme?
Here are the simple facts! (Google them if you don't believe me.)
In 1950 NORTH Korea INVADED South Korea.
The UNITED NATIONS raised a UN army under the command of General Douglas MacArthur with the USA providing the bulk of the force with orders to expel the NORTH KOREANS from South Korea.
The Chinese openly came to the aid of the N Koreans, the USSR also aided the N Koreans but covertly.
In 1953 the N Koreans, Chinese and Soviets were fought to a standstill (total NK/China/USSR losses estimated to be over 1 million) and the armistice and DMZ was agreed.
Since then NORTH KOREA keep breaking that armistice and attacking S Korea and their other neighbours (other than China).
N Korea ARE the AGGRESSORS! Appeasement has not worked in 55 years, it is not going to work now. If they are not smashed now THEY WILL use their nuclear firepower to attack anyone they can reach.
Now this next bit is my reading of what will happen.
Donny will bottle it and back down. NK will continue launching missiles into the sea until they have a missile that can hit all of the USA. Then they will go quiet until they have a large enough arsenal of warheads. Then they will launch a 'preemptive' strike on the USA and plunge the world into a nuclear world war.
If I am incorrect about donny small hands and he does grow some balls I think Russia and China will not interfere."
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Will, nobody would argue that North Korea are the aggressive type, nobody would argue that the USA have done the right thing trying to defeat them but... We are where we are.
Apart from 20 million Koreans dying (which is an option, I don't deny) the only other option is what I've just described.
The option I described does not put blame on either party about who's bad or good, it's just a practical solution to the the problem we face |
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"Will, nobody would argue that North Korea are the aggressive type, nobody would argue that the USA have done the right thing trying to defeat them but... We are where we are.
Apart from 20 million Koreans dying (which is an option, I don't deny) the only other option is what I've just described.
The option I described does not put blame on either party about who's bad or good, it's just a practical solution to the the problem we face"
Your option is unrealistic. KJU and N Korea are not going to submit to China, they have made that clear in their dealings with China. If the US withdraws from S Korea the North will invade. If the US withdraws from Japan the same. When the North invades the South and Japan because the US has withdrawn there is then the logistical nightmare of attempting to recapture and regarison those territories. And of course as soon as any attempt is made to assist the South or Japan the North would use that as a pretext to use its nuclear capability.
The fact is the UN (or the West unilaterally) had acted 10 years ago the death toll would probably have been in the 100's of thousands. Now we are looking at a death toll in the millions soon that will be in the hundreds of millions. At some point soon the choice will be stark become a slave to the N Korean state or the N Korean state will destroy the world.
I know that sounds far fetched but that is where we are heading. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Will, nobody would argue that North Korea are the aggressive type, nobody would argue that the USA have done the right thing trying to defeat them but... We are where we are.
Apart from 20 million Koreans dying (which is an option, I don't deny) the only other option is what I've just described.
The option I described does not put blame on either party about who's bad or good, it's just a practical solution to the the problem we face
Your option is unrealistic. KJU and N Korea are not going to submit to China, they have made that clear in their dealings with China. If the US withdraws from S Korea the North will invade. If the US withdraws from Japan the same. When the North invades the South and Japan because the US has withdrawn there is then the logistical nightmare of attempting to recapture and regarison those territories. And of course as soon as any attempt is made to assist the South or Japan the North would use that as a pretext to use its nuclear capability.
The fact is the UN (or the West unilaterally) had acted 10 years ago the death toll would probably have been in the 100's of thousands. Now we are looking at a death toll in the millions soon that will be in the hundreds of millions. At some point soon the choice will be stark become a slave to the N Korean state or the N Korean state will destroy the world.
I know that sounds far fetched but that is where we are heading."
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I disagree, I believe the south are more than capable of defending themselves and frankly if they aren't they deserve what's coming.
No developed county should need to rely on the us.
It's either penny pinching or a yellow steak (no pun intended).
China doesn't want the USA on its border, just like Russia doesn't want the USA on its border, we have to face that realty. It's not ideal but that's where we are |
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