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£GBP V €Euro
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"1.08 today WTF???? Then again, I bought my French apartment at 1.45 in the early millenium and selling it hopefully in September around 1.1 will be a good non-taxable gain on the original purchase price. What do Brexiters think of this devaluation? Does it reinforce the idea that they need us more than we need them? " Well if you buy something for more and sell it for less then id say its a pretty crap deal.....but im sure some of the brexiters will say its a good deal  | |||
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"1.08 today WTF???? Then again, I bought my French apartment at 1.45 in the early millenium and selling it hopefully in September around 1.1 will be a good non-taxable gain on the original purchase price. What do Brexiters think of this devaluation? Does it reinforce the idea that they need us more than we need them? Well if you buy something for more and sell it for less then id say its a pretty crap deal.....but im sure some of the brexiters will say its a good deal "Actually, in this instance, the devaluation will be pretty good for me as I bought €100,000 when the rate was 1.45 (£69,000 GBP) and will be selling the €100,000 back at 1.1 (£90,000) or thereabouts (£20,000 will be quite useful!). There is no tax to pay on the currency gain - but of course there will be tax to pay on the increased valuation of the apartment (capital gain). | |||
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"1.08 today WTF???? Then again, I bought my French apartment at 1.45 in the early millenium and selling it hopefully in September around 1.1 will be a good non-taxable gain on the original purchase price. What do Brexiters think of this devaluation? Does it reinforce the idea that they need us more than we need them? Well if you buy something for more and sell it for less then id say its a pretty crap deal.....but im sure some of the brexiters will say its a good deal
Actually, in this instance, the devaluation will be pretty good for me as I bought €100,000 when the rate was 1.45 (£69,000 GBP) and will be selling the €100,000 back at 1.1 (£90,000) or thereabouts (£20,000 will be quite useful!). There is no tax to pay on the currency gain - but of course there will be tax to pay on the increased valuation of the apartment (capital gain)."it would had been a whole lot better though if the £ hadn't fallen....but thats great news im pleased for you  | |||
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"Technically your 90k should buy you the same as your 69k did, therefore you broke even "But hes not buying so hes in profit  | |||
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"Technically your 90k should buy you the same as your 69k did, therefore you broke even
But hes not buying so hes in profit ". No that's not quite what I meant, it has roughly the same purchasing power.... Unless you take it abroad then it's less but that's one of the points of devaluation | |||
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"1.08 today WTF???? Then again, I bought my French apartment at 1.45 in the early millenium and selling it hopefully in September around 1.1 will be a good non-taxable gain on the original purchase price. What do Brexiters think of this devaluation? Does it reinforce the idea that they need us more than we need them? " were we not told that they would love it because it would help exports..... yey!!!!!!! but that doesn't help the 99% of us who don't actually sell anything...... because we buy our products... be that food, services, petrol, electricity ect... and because a lot of thats is generally orignally bought in euros or us dollars our "living costs" have actually gone up........ so yey for us normal people!!!!  | |||
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"The fall in the pound is great for any one exporting but disaster for importing , in southern ireland you would car dealers and plant machinery dealers can't move a second hand car or machine , every one here is buying in the north or going across the water , from a euro point of view there is great value to be had in UK , " And on the other side our to the UK are becoming too expensive so your producers and manufacturing industry should be on a winner. | |||
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"Thanks to BBC News.... "Sterling’s historic weakness against the euro makes for some eye-grabbing headlines, but in reality, the underlying drivers of these developments are nothing new: mounting economic and political uncertainty in the UK, and rapidly improving conditions in the eurozone." Ranko BerichHead of market analysis, Monex Europe" . I've said it for years, the pounds been overvalued by 50% mainly for financial reasons.... As Fabio says yay for everybody else who doesn't work in finance. Balancing economics for all is always difficult but I'll be honest "economic suicide" only actually matters if you've got something to lose and sadly lots of people haven't  | |||
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"So last time it was this low we wasn't in the EU? "Eight year low.....so eight years ago it was the same exchange rate..... maybe that was because some of you were thinking about brexit? | |||
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"It's no fun being the poor man of Europe again, just like back in the early 70's before we joined the EEC. Still that's what our wonderful BREXITer leaders (May & Corbyn) seem to want for use. At this rate we'll be lucky if we get €0.95 by next year. But, in the end, we'll be a poor, bankrupt, insignificant country of the coast of Europe thanks to BREXIT so it will all be worth it in the end." Check your history.....we were branded the "poor man of Europe" in the LATE seventies. Due to Wilson/Callaghan govt and near 30% inflation. Nothing to do with being in or out of the EEC. .... The EU hadn't been invented at the time! | |||
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"It's no fun being the poor man of Europe again, just like back in the early 70's before we joined the EEC. Still that's what our wonderful BREXITer leaders (May & Corbyn) seem to want for use. At this rate we'll be lucky if we get €0.95 by next year. But, in the end, we'll be a poor, bankrupt, insignificant country of the coast of Europe thanks to BREXIT so it will all be worth it in the end. Check your history.....we were branded the "poor man of Europe" in the LATE seventies. Due to Wilson/Callaghan govt and near 30% inflation. Nothing to do with being in or out of the EEC. .... The EU hadn't been invented at the time!" And there was me thinking the the EU had kept us safe from wars in Europe since the late 40s. | |||
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"The fall in the pound is great for any one exporting but disaster for importing , in southern ireland you would car dealers and plant machinery dealers can't move a second hand car or machine , every one here is buying in the north or going across the water , from a euro point of view there is great value to be had in UK , And on the other side our to the UK are becoming too expensive so your producers and manufacturing industry should be on a winner." Unfortunately, while what you say is true in the short term, in the long term devalueation has no long term benefit to any country that tries to use it as an economic tool, especially a country like the UK that imports more than it exports. Within a pretty short time the increase in costs of imports out reaches the reduction in export costs. Prices go up, followed by demands for increased pay. In the end our goods cost pretty much the same in Euros or Dollars as they did before but, those with savings, have less real purchasing power for their money. The only people to really gain from a devalued Pound are those with large assets abroad like Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Arron Banks, Jeremy Hosking, Peter Hargreaves, Robert Edmiston and Crispin Odey It's worth remembering that when people persuade you to support policies that lead to division there is normally someone who is going to gain and make a lot of money from your actions and you can be pretty sure that that someone is not going to be you, me or the ordinary man on the street. | |||
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"It's no fun being the poor man of Europe again, just like back in the early 70's before we joined the EEC. Still that's what our wonderful BREXITer leaders (May & Corbyn) seem to want for use. At this rate we'll be lucky if we get €0.95 by next year. But, in the end, we'll be a poor, bankrupt, insignificant country of the coast of Europe thanks to BREXIT so it will all be worth it in the end. Check your history.....we were branded the "poor man of Europe" in the LATE seventies. Due to Wilson/Callaghan govt and near 30% inflation. Nothing to do with being in or out of the EEC. .... The EU hadn't been invented at the time!" I don't kneed to check my history thanks. The 'Poor Man of Europe' label was applied to the UK from about 1968 to 1974 (as a direct result of Wildon's "Pound in your pocket" devaluation in 1967). The phrase used in the latter party of the Wilson/Callaghan government was "Sick man of Europe" due to industrial unrest caused by the failure of Callaghan's 'In place of Strife' policy. I'll grant you this, whether it was sick man or poor man it was a pretty shitty time for Britain and it didn't start to improve much even after Thatcher in 1979. When things did start to really improve was when Britain pushed the EEC/EC to make a truly Common Market with the gradual introduction of the Single Market from 1985 onwards. But, thanks to BREXIT, we won't have that to help us out of this time. In short BREXIT is causing the problem and preventing the solution. Thanks a lot. | |||
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"It's no fun being the poor man of Europe again, just like back in the early 70's before we joined the EEC. Still that's what our wonderful BREXITer leaders (May & Corbyn) seem to want for use. At this rate we'll be lucky if we get €0.95 by next year. But, in the end, we'll be a poor, bankrupt, insignificant country of the coast of Europe thanks to BREXIT so it will all be worth it in the end. Check your history.....we were branded the "poor man of Europe" in the LATE seventies. Due to Wilson/Callaghan govt and near 30% inflation. Nothing to do with being in or out of the EEC. .... The EU hadn't been invented at the time! And there was me thinking the the EU had kept us safe from wars in Europe since the late 40s. "The EU and it's predecessor organisations have helped keep us safe from war since the late 40s. That was one of the founding reasons for setting them up and, mostly, It's worked pretty well. | |||
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"1.08 today WTF???? Then again, I bought my French apartment at 1.45 in the early millenium and selling it hopefully in September around 1.1 will be a good non-taxable gain on the original purchase price. What do Brexiters think of this devaluation? Does it reinforce the idea that they need us more than we need them? " So what you're illustrating is that mainland Europe was a good place to invest and that the pound crashing due to uncertainty will benefit anyone rich enough to have invested there but is awful for those with less looking for a cheaper continental get away hmmm I hope it is realised the the currency value is a fair illustration of how the world values and views a countries financial position and prospect so despite David bull Shit , dog Davis telling the world how amazing exit will be the money in the world seems to disagree x | |||
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"Give NATO a bit of credit please. " NATO was set up solely to deter invasion of (Western)Europe from the East. The EU and its predecessors was set up partly to avoid a war between European states. They have both been mutually successful in their objectives of keeping Europe relatively free from the scourge of war for 70 years. That's the longest period of peace Europe has known. | |||
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"Give NATO a bit of credit please. " War in Europe has been avoided because the EU creates a system whereby former divisions and irritations between countries became significantly less important than the economic benefits that arise from ever closer cooperation. NATO has nothing to do with economic policies that reduce wealth disparity and improving the livelihoods of ordinary people and these tend to be big motivating factors for conflict. | |||
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"Internally, maybe. To think that peace in Europe is only down solely to the EU etc. is ludicrous. Without the protection provided by NATO from Soviet expansion, there would be no EU. " Neither NATO or the EU prevented war in the Balkans. If people want to fight, then they will. | |||
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"1.08 today WTF???? Then again, I bought my French apartment at 1.45 in the early millenium and selling it hopefully in September around 1.1 will be a good non-taxable gain on the original purchase price. What do Brexiters think of this devaluation? Does it reinforce the idea that they need us more than we need them? Well if you buy something for more and sell it for less then id say its a pretty crap deal.....but im sure some of the brexiters will say its a good deal
Actually, in this instance, the devaluation will be pretty good for me as I bought €100,000 when the rate was 1.45 (£69,000 GBP) and will be selling the €100,000 back at 1.1 (£90,000) or thereabouts (£20,000 will be quite useful!). There is no tax to pay on the currency gain - but of course there will be tax to pay on the increased valuation of the apartment (capital gain)."you get some relief depending on how long you owned it for - it drops each year. If you were selling post 2019 - tax increases to 49% as a 3rd country. | |||
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"Internally, maybe. " Well that is what we are talking about. | |||
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"1.08 today WTF???? Then again, I bought my French apartment at 1.45 in the early millenium and selling it hopefully in September around 1.1 will be a good non-taxable gain on the original purchase price. What do Brexiters think of this devaluation? Does it reinforce the idea that they need us more than we need them? Well if you buy something for more and sell it for less then id say its a pretty crap deal.....but im sure some of the brexiters will say its a good deal
Actually, in this instance, the devaluation will be pretty good for me as I bought €100,000 when the rate was 1.45 (£69,000 GBP) and will be selling the €100,000 back at 1.1 (£90,000) or thereabouts (£20,000 will be quite useful!). There is no tax to pay on the currency gain - but of course there will be tax to pay on the increased valuation of the apartment (capital gain). you get some relief depending on how long you owned it for - it drops each year. If you were selling post 2019 - tax increases to 49% as a 3rd country. "I know - I was told that. I reduced the price for a quick sale because the FX rate was good and I wanted to pay the CGT before Brexit happened. | |||
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"Internally, maybe. Well that is what we are talking about." As you said earlier "War in Europe has been avoided because the EU" It hasnt stopped war in Europe has it? You seem to be conflating the the EU and Europe. For example, the Ukraine is in Europe and are currently in a civil war. Some have blamed the EU for their "Eastern Partnership" which included Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine in the face of Russias suspicion of it as a threat to them and to their sphere of influence. The EU cannot be held responsible for Russia’s illegal and violent response to events in Ukraine, but they are a contributing factor. But it has stopped war internally within the EU which is what I,m saying, the EU and Europe are not the same thing. One is a political union, the other is a continent. | |||
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"1.08 today WTF???? Then again, I bought my French apartment at 1.45 in the early millenium and selling it hopefully in September around 1.1 will be a good non-taxable gain on the original purchase price. What do Brexiters think of this devaluation? Does it reinforce the idea that they need us more than we need them? " Nice plug to mention your parizien apartment lol | |||
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"1.08 today WTF???? Then again, I bought my French apartment at 1.45 in the early millenium and selling it hopefully in September around 1.1 will be a good non-taxable gain on the original purchase price. What do Brexiters think of this devaluation? Does it reinforce the idea that they need us more than we need them? Nice plug to mention your parizien apartment lol "Just pointing out that Brits will be paying 1/3 more on holiday spends this year but for those buying £GBP - things are a lot brighter. | |||
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"Internally, maybe. To think that peace in Europe is only down solely to the EU etc. is ludicrous. Without the protection provided by NATO from Soviet expansion, there would be no EU. " No one has claimed that though have they? The EU and its predecessor organisations have been about peace between member states, NATO is focused on defending member states against external aggression. | |||
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"You couldn't have had the EU without the protection of NATO. The earlier poster certainly did not give any credit to NATO. " And NATO wouldn't have worked if its member states had gone to war with each other. It would have been powerless to stop it as it wouldn't have been able to secure a unanimous vote at the NAC. | |||
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"Brexit is economic suicide lol" Devaluation of the pound is good for exports | |||
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"The pound is at its record low since the crisis. I wonder what they blame it on this time? lol, over 80,000 eu citizens is leaving the uk in key skills areas, this is like ww2, the clever ones see the early warning signs and leaves, whilst the other will stay and sink." Thee are a number of reasons while people are leaving although Brexit is one of them.It means that lazy Brits will have to pick the fruit etc or be forced.As for the skilled jobs we should train are own people to do them .The problem is emdemic very little to do with Brexit and it can be put right with a bit of effort from the people and the government. It is easy to blame others for problems,well stop blaming and do something about it.This lazy attitude of we need Europe etc is lazy and cowardice | |||
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"Devaluation of the pound is good for exports" Long term it isn't. A weak currency in an economy that relies heavily on imports leads to higher prices, which leads to a pressure to raise wages, which nullifies the supposed competitive gains of the 'better' exchange rates. Not to mention that most products rely on international supply chains, so gains are limited in the first place. If devaluating a currency *really* made you more competitive, every country would do it. However, that's clearly not the case - ask yourself why. | |||
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"Thee are a number of reasons while people are leaving although Brexit is one of them. " It has everything to do with Brexit. Absolutely everything. | |||
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"You couldn't have had the EU without the protection of NATO. The earlier poster certainly did not give any credit to NATO. And NATO wouldn't have worked if its member states had gone to war with each other. It would have been powerless to stop it as it wouldn't have been able to secure a unanimous vote at the NAC." "If" But they didnt, so I dont see what point your trying to make? If your grandma had balls she,d be your Grandad! But she never did. | |||
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"Thee are a number of reasons while people are leaving although Brexit is one of them. It has everything to do with Brexit. Absolutely everything." That is right | |||
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"Thee are a number of reasons while people are leaving although Brexit is one of them. It has everything to do with Brexit. Absolutely everything.That is right "The £ was at parity with the € at the airport exchange when I was there last week. Holiday spending has cost a lot more this year. Thanks, cunts. | |||
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"You couldn't have had the EU without the protection of NATO. The earlier poster certainly did not give any credit to NATO. And NATO wouldn't have worked if its member states had gone to war with each other. It would have been powerless to stop it as it wouldn't have been able to secure a unanimous vote at the NAC. "If" But they didnt, so I dont see what point your trying to make? If your grandma had balls she,d be your Grandad! But she never did. " The member states didn't go to war with each other as a result of the EU and its predecessor organisations. This has already been mentioned earlier in the thread. Now can you see the point being made? | |||
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"Thee are a number of reasons while people are leaving although Brexit is one of them. It has everything to do with Brexit. Absolutely everything.That is right
The £ was at parity with the € at the airport exchange when I was there last week. Holiday spending has cost a lot more this year. Thanks, cunts. "So who's the mug for choosing the most expensive way of currency exchange then? Ever heard of Martin Lewis? Money Saving Expert? | |||
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"Neither did the members of NATO. " If you believe that the reason NATO member states didn't go to war with each other because they were in NATO, through what mechanisms did NATO use to achieve this? | |||
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"Internally, maybe. To think that peace in Europe is only down solely to the EU etc. is ludicrous. Without the protection provided by NATO from Soviet expansion, there would be no EU. " I agree, they are both mutually beneficial and mutually essential to peace in Europe. It's not a choice of one or the other. | |||
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"Internally, maybe. Well that is what we are talking about. As you said earlier "War in Europe has been avoided because the EU" It hasnt stopped war in Europe has it? You seem to be conflating the the EU and Europe. For example, the Ukraine is in Europe and are currently in a civil war. Some have blamed the EU for their "Eastern Partnership" which included Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine in the face of Russias suspicion of it as a threat to them and to their sphere of influence. The EU cannot be held responsible for Russia’s illegal and violent response to events in Ukraine, but they are a contributing factor. But it has stopped war internally within the EU which is what I,m saying, the EU and Europe are not the same thing. One is a political union, the other is a continent. " Well clarified | |||
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"Devaluation of the pound is good for exports" This would be true if the country was a net exporter, it isn't. The general effect of a devaluation of the currency is inflation. There are other more immediate and startling effects and this summer, for example, a €5 beer now costs a Brit £4.62, whereas pre referendum when it was around 1.4 that same beer was only costing £3.57. Essentially Brits either need to take one-third more spending money on holiday to Europe now or they tighten their belts and play out the pauper on holiday scene. The £GBP / €Euro rate was at its most recent high point (1.43) just before Christmas 2015 after which it started to become clear that a "Remain" vote was far from certain. The pound started its slide, late 2015/early 2016 and hasn't stopped since. | |||
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"Neither did the members of NATO. If you believe that the reason NATO member states didn't go to war with each other because they were in NATO, through what mechanisms did NATO use to achieve this? " That's not what I, m saying at all, nor is it what I believe,so forgive me if I ignore your irrelevant question. Please don't try to build strawmen with me. Both contributed to peace, One organisation can't take all the credit. We have both the EU and NATO to thank. That's my point, nothing more nothing less. | |||
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"Devaluation of the pound is good for exports Long term it isn't. A weak currency in an economy that relies heavily on imports leads to higher prices, which leads to a pressure to raise wages, which nullifies the supposed competitive gains of the 'better' exchange rates. Not to mention that most products rely on international supply chains, so gains are limited in the first place. If devaluating a currency *really* made you more competitive, every country would do it. However, that's clearly not the case - ask yourself why. " . Have you asked yourself why we have a strong currency when as you say we're a net importer?. Three main objectives value a currency. Demand for it Stability of the country Value of bonds or yield of bond | |||
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"Neither did the members of NATO. If you believe that the reason NATO member states didn't go to war with each other because they were in NATO, through what mechanisms did NATO use to achieve this? That's not what I, m saying at all, nor is it what I believe,so forgive me if I ignore your irrelevant question. Please don't try to build strawmen with me. Both contributed to peace, One organisation can't take all the credit. We have both the EU and NATO to thank. That's my point, nothing more nothing less. " So if both contributed to peace, it would stand to reason that leaving one or the other or both would be detrimental to peace. | |||
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"There's always the possibility, however unlikely. But not all countries in Europe are in the EU and they are not constantly at war with each other so I really don't think that is a likely outcome for the UK in the future to be honest. By the same exaggerated reckoning you used, do you think leaving the EU makes war inevitable?" I don't think it makes war inevitable no, but it does hurt our security in a number of ways. | |||
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"Brexit is economic suicide lolDevaluation of the pound is good for exports" The trade deficit has widened over the last 9 months that the Sterling has devalued. | |||
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"Thee are a number of reasons while people are leaving although Brexit is one of them. It has everything to do with Brexit. Absolutely everything." Bollocks | |||
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"Thee are a number of reasons while people are leaving although Brexit is one of them. It has everything to do with Brexit. Absolutely everything.Bollocks" So whats it down to ? | |||
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"That remains to be seen. In that as much as our security may be damaged, the same could also be said the without the input of the UK,s security and intelligence organisations, so would the EU,s. I hope cooperation and sharing information will continue and a sensible compromise will be made, as it would be beneficial to all parties. " I agree, it will hurt both of us. Most of the EUs security cooperation is governed by the ECJ. If the government has its heart set on pulling out of the ECJ, then there goes a lot of the cooperation. | |||
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"That remains to be seen. In that as much as our security may be damaged, the same could also be said the without the input of the UK,s security and intelligence organisations, so would the EU,s. I hope cooperation and sharing information will continue and a sensible compromise will be made, as it would be beneficial to all parties. I agree, it will hurt both of us. Most of the EUs security cooperation is governed by the ECJ. If the government has its heart set on pulling out of the ECJ, then there goes a lot of the cooperation. " Why does the ecj need to be involved in security services sharing info? | |||
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"That remains to be seen. In that as much as our security may be damaged, the same could also be said the without the input of the UK,s security and intelligence organisations, so would the EU,s. I hope cooperation and sharing information will continue and a sensible compromise will be made, as it would be beneficial to all parties. I agree, it will hurt both of us. Most of the EUs security cooperation is governed by the ECJ. If the government has its heart set on pulling out of the ECJ, then there goes a lot of the cooperation. Why does the ecj need to be involved in security services sharing info?" The ECJ oversees the agreements that govern European agencies. You cant be a member of the agency without accepting it's jurisdiction. | |||
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"That remains to be seen. In that as much as our security may be damaged, the same could also be said the without the input of the UK,s security and intelligence organisations, so would the EU,s. I hope cooperation and sharing information will continue and a sensible compromise will be made, as it would be beneficial to all parties. I agree, it will hurt both of us. Most of the EUs security cooperation is governed by the ECJ. If the government has its heart set on pulling out of the ECJ, then there goes a lot of the cooperation. Why does the ecj need to be involved in security services sharing info? The ECJ oversees the agreements that govern European agencies. You cant be a member of the agency without accepting it's jurisdiction. " Two securiy services agree to pass info to each other. That doesn't need a court. It's just a flow of info. What governs the UK's info sharing with the US? | |||
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"That remains to be seen. In that as much as our security may be damaged, the same could also be said the without the input of the UK,s security and intelligence organisations, so would the EU,s. I hope cooperation and sharing information will continue and a sensible compromise will be made, as it would be beneficial to all parties. I agree, it will hurt both of us. Most of the EUs security cooperation is governed by the ECJ. If the government has its heart set on pulling out of the ECJ, then there goes a lot of the cooperation. Why does the ecj need to be involved in security services sharing info? The ECJ oversees the agreements that govern European agencies. You cant be a member of the agency without accepting it's jurisdiction. Two securiy services agree to pass info to each other. That doesn't need a court. It's just a flow of info. What governs the UK's info sharing with the US?" Leaving those agencies will give us worse access and influence than being inside it. | |||
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"That remains to be seen. In that as much as our security may be damaged, the same could also be said the without the input of the UK,s security and intelligence organisations, so would the EU,s. I hope cooperation and sharing information will continue and a sensible compromise will be made, as it would be beneficial to all parties. I agree, it will hurt both of us. Most of the EUs security cooperation is governed by the ECJ. If the government has its heart set on pulling out of the ECJ, then there goes a lot of the cooperation. Why does the ecj need to be involved in security services sharing info? The ECJ oversees the agreements that govern European agencies. You cant be a member of the agency without accepting it's jurisdiction. Two securiy services agree to pass info to each other. That doesn't need a court. It's just a flow of info. What governs the UK's info sharing with the US? Leaving those agencies will give us worse access and influence than being inside it. " Bit of a side step. We don't need the ECJ to be able to share info with other European security services. Just like we don't need it when we share info with the usa etc. | |||
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"That remains to be seen. In that as much as our security may be damaged, the same could also be said the without the input of the UK,s security and intelligence organisations, so would the EU,s. I hope cooperation and sharing information will continue and a sensible compromise will be made, as it would be beneficial to all parties. I agree, it will hurt both of us. Most of the EUs security cooperation is governed by the ECJ. If the government has its heart set on pulling out of the ECJ, then there goes a lot of the cooperation. Why does the ecj need to be involved in security services sharing info? The ECJ oversees the agreements that govern European agencies. You cant be a member of the agency without accepting it's jurisdiction. Two securiy services agree to pass info to each other. That doesn't need a court. It's just a flow of info. What governs the UK's info sharing with the US? Leaving those agencies will give us worse access and influence than being inside it. Bit of a side step. We don't need the ECJ to be able to share info with other European security services. Just like we don't need it when we share info with the usa etc." No side step at all. We can't be in agencies such as Europol without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ. | |||
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"That remains to be seen. In that as much as our security may be damaged, the same could also be said the without the input of the UK,s security and intelligence organisations, so would the EU,s. I hope cooperation and sharing information will continue and a sensible compromise will be made, as it would be beneficial to all parties. I agree, it will hurt both of us. Most of the EUs security cooperation is governed by the ECJ. If the government has its heart set on pulling out of the ECJ, then there goes a lot of the cooperation. Why does the ecj need to be involved in security services sharing info? The ECJ oversees the agreements that govern European agencies. You cant be a member of the agency without accepting it's jurisdiction. Two securiy services agree to pass info to each other. That doesn't need a court. It's just a flow of info. What governs the UK's info sharing with the US? Leaving those agencies will give us worse access and influence than being inside it. Bit of a side step. We don't need the ECJ to be able to share info with other European security services. Just like we don't need it when we share info with the usa etc. No side step at all. We can't be in agencies such as Europol without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ. " You're talking about the european arrest warrant I assume. | |||
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"That remains to be seen. In that as much as our security may be damaged, the same could also be said the without the input of the UK,s security and intelligence organisations, so would the EU,s. I hope cooperation and sharing information will continue and a sensible compromise will be made, as it would be beneficial to all parties. I agree, it will hurt both of us. Most of the EUs security cooperation is governed by the ECJ. If the government has its heart set on pulling out of the ECJ, then there goes a lot of the cooperation. Why does the ecj need to be involved in security services sharing info? The ECJ oversees the agreements that govern European agencies. You cant be a member of the agency without accepting it's jurisdiction. Two securiy services agree to pass info to each other. That doesn't need a court. It's just a flow of info. What governs the UK's info sharing with the US? Leaving those agencies will give us worse access and influence than being inside it. Bit of a side step. We don't need the ECJ to be able to share info with other European security services. Just like we don't need it when we share info with the usa etc. No side step at all. We can't be in agencies such as Europol without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ. You're talking about the european arrest warrant I assume." Im talking about EUMS, Europol, Common Security and Defence Policy, EU INTSEC, European External Action Service, Common Foreign and Security Policy etc. | |||
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" Bit of a side step. We don't need the ECJ to be able to share info with other European security services. Just like we don't need it when we share info with the usa etc. No side step at all. We can't be in agencies such as Europol without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ. You're talking about the european arrest warrant I assume. Im talking about EUMS, Europol, Common Security and Defence Policy, EU INTSEC, European External Action Service, Common Foreign and Security Policy etc. " Who voted for an eu wide common defence and security policy, or a common foreign policy? Slightly back on track, it's entirely feasible, realistic and in everyones interest to share security and criminal info. That doesn't necessitate ecj power. | |||
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" Bit of a side step. We don't need the ECJ to be able to share info with other European security services. Just like we don't need it when we share info with the usa etc. No side step at all. We can't be in agencies such as Europol without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ. You're talking about the european arrest warrant I assume. Im talking about EUMS, Europol, Common Security and Defence Policy, EU INTSEC, European External Action Service, Common Foreign and Security Policy etc. Who voted for an eu wide common defence and security policy, or a common foreign policy? Slightly back on track, it's entirely feasible, realistic and in everyones interest to share security and criminal info. That doesn't necessitate ecj power." There is more to it than that, can you for example name a non-EU country that gets a say over EU sanctions being imposed on a country? RUSI believe that we may risk losing our position as DSACEUR after Brexit too, showing a futher lack of influence, even outisde of EU institutions. | |||
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" No side step at all. We can't be in agencies such as Europol without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ. " Are you sure? Australia and Canada are among the non-European agencies that now have operational agreements with and liaison officers inside Europol. https://www.europol.europa.eu/agreements/australia https://www.europol.europa.eu/agreements/canada | |||
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" Im talking about EUMS, Europol, Common Security and Defence Policy, EU INTSEC, European External Action Service, Common Foreign and Security Policy etc. Who voted for an eu wide common defence and security policy, or a common foreign policy? Slightly back on track, it's entirely feasible, realistic and in everyones interest to share security and criminal info. That doesn't necessitate ecj power. There is more to it than that, can you for example name a non-EU country that gets a say over EU sanctions being imposed on a country? RUSI believe that we may risk losing our position as DSACEUR after Brexit too, showing a futher lack of influence, even outisde of EU institutions. " You just keep moving the goalposts! We can co-operate on security without ecj supremacy. | |||
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" Im talking about EUMS, Europol, Common Security and Defence Policy, EU INTSEC, European External Action Service, Common Foreign and Security Policy etc. Who voted for an eu wide common defence and security policy, or a common foreign policy? Slightly back on track, it's entirely feasible, realistic and in everyones interest to share security and criminal info. That doesn't necessitate ecj power. There is more to it than that, can you for example name a non-EU country that gets a say over EU sanctions being imposed on a country? RUSI believe that we may risk losing our position as DSACEUR after Brexit too, showing a futher lack of influence, even outisde of EU institutions. You just keep moving the goalposts! We can co-operate on security without ecj supremacy." I haven't moved the goal posts at all. | |||
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" No side step at all. We can't be in agencies such as Europol without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ. Are you sure? Australia and Canada are among the non-European agencies that now have operational agreements with and liaison officers inside Europol. https://www.europol.europa.eu/agreements/australia https://www.europol.europa.eu/agreements/canada" But they are not members are they? | |||
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"Thee are a number of reasons while people are leaving although Brexit is one of them. It has everything to do with Brexit. Absolutely everything.Bollocks" Well, I'm one of those EU citizens that your lovely right-wing press and government constantly vilifies and... you're not. I probably have a much better insight in what makes us tick, don't you think? | |||
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"We don't need to be in those organisations, just be able to share and cooperate. We have for decades been part of the Five Eyes, but no political union was or is required, just an agreement to share intelligence. If they want to do it, then they will. If they don't then both the EU and the UK government will seem to be putting comparative petty squabbles over the safety and security of its own citizens. Some will blame the UK government entirely if its the latter and not place any responsibility on the EU, but that's seems to be the way it is with some. " There is more than just sharing information, there is influencing policy, we can't do that from the outside. | |||
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" No side step at all. We can't be in agencies such as Europol without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ. Are you sure? Australia and Canada are among the non-European agencies that now have operational agreements with and liaison officers inside Europol. https://www.europol.europa.eu/agreements/australia https://www.europol.europa.eu/agreements/canada But they are not members are they? " I maintain your claim that we can't be 'in' Europol without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ is incorrect because the operational agreements between Canada/Australia prove otherwise. You're right, they are not full 'members'. That is because they don't have to be. It is in Europol's interest to have close cooperation with the law enforcement agencies of non-member countries. It is in Canada's & Australia's interest to have close cooperation with Europol. It is a reciprocal agreement so both sides benefit. | |||
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"We don't need to be in those organisations, just be able to share and cooperate. We have for decades been part of the Five Eyes, but no political union was or is required, just an agreement to share intelligence. If they want to do it, then they will. If they don't then both the EU and the UK government will seem to be putting comparative petty squabbles over the safety and security of its own citizens. Some will blame the UK government entirely if its the latter and not place any responsibility on the EU, but that's seems to be the way it is with some. " You seem to forget we are in a new era from 5 decades ago....we need these organisations and thay need us...to say we dont is total rubbish tbh....take what the Spanish just passed on to the Dutch in Rotterdam...but keep believing the UK can fix all the worlds problems on its own  | |||
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"And neither can they ours. Will the policy of protecting its citizens in the EU be so different from ours? If it is, maybe we would better off out if that's the case. After all, why should we be chained to an organisation who's security policy goes against the interests of our own country? You,re constantly pointing at potential problems but can't accept that solutions to these problems can be easily found if the political will is there. We have foreign, domestic, electronic, organised crime and counter terrorism intelligence assets and analysis that the EU do not possess. I,m pretty sure that the loss of those could possibly damage the EU effectiveness on protecting its own citizens. Don't sell us or the people of the EU short. We should and could work together in future for our mutual benefit in this particular area. Its the only sensible thing to do considering the circumstances we find ourselves in. " I don't know why you are advocating for a scenario that makes both the UK and the EU less secure. That is not a win for either party. Please can you give a couple of examples of when EU security policy has gone against the UK's interests? | |||
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" No side step at all. We can't be in agencies such as Europol without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ. Are you sure? Australia and Canada are among the non-European agencies that now have operational agreements with and liaison officers inside Europol. https://www.europol.europa.eu/agreements/australia https://www.europol.europa.eu/agreements/canada But they are not members are they? I maintain your claim that we can't be 'in' Europol without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ is incorrect because the operational agreements between Canada/Australia prove otherwise. You're right, they are not full 'members'. That is because they don't have to be. It is in Europol's interest to have close cooperation with the law enforcement agencies of non-member countries. It is in Canada's & Australia's interest to have close cooperation with Europol. It is a reciprocal agreement so both sides benefit." So you agree that they are not members and can't be unless accepting the ECJ jurisdiction? | |||
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" No side step at all. We can't be in agencies such as Europol without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ. Are you sure? Australia and Canada are among the non-European agencies that now have operational agreements with and liaison officers inside Europol. https://www.europol.europa.eu/agreements/australia https://www.europol.europa.eu/agreements/canada But they are not members are they? I maintain your claim that we can't be 'in' Europol without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ is incorrect because the operational agreements between Canada/Australia prove otherwise. You're right, they are not full 'members'. That is because they don't have to be. It is in Europol's interest to have close cooperation with the law enforcement agencies of non-member countries. It is in Canada's & Australia's interest to have close cooperation with Europol. It is a reciprocal agreement so both sides benefit. So you agree that they are not members and can't be unless accepting the ECJ jurisdiction?" I've already agreed Canada & Australia aren't full members. If accepting ECJ jurisdiction is a prerequisite for full membership then they would struggle to be. You said "in" Europol. In at what level/tier is the crucial factor. You phrased it as though there was no other option but accept ECJ jurisdiction. I am simply pointing out there is an option. Do you agree we can be 'in' Europol as an operational member/partner (whatever the next level down is) without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ? | |||
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"We don't need to be in those organisations, just be able to share and cooperate. We have for decades been part of the Five Eyes, but no political union was or is required, just an agreement to share intelligence. If they want to do it, then they will. If they don't then both the EU and the UK government will seem to be putting comparative petty squabbles over the safety and security of its own citizens. Some will blame the UK government entirely if its the latter and not place any responsibility on the EU, but that's seems to be the way it is with some. You seem to forget we are in a new era from 5 decades ago....we need these organisations and thay need us...to say we dont is total rubbish tbh....take what the Spanish just passed on to the Dutch in Rotterdam...but keep believing the UK can fix all the worlds problems on its own "He didn't say that. Read the first sentence. We can share and cooperate fully without needing ecj supremacy. As the discussion CLCCis having, it's just semantics whether you are a 'full' member. They can do what they like together and be bound whatever rules and governance they prefer. We can say we will be fully sharing partners in all matters. That does not necessitate ecj jurisdiction over us. We all get the cooperation we want and need. | |||
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" No side step at all. We can't be in agencies such as Europol without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ. Are you sure? Australia and Canada are among the non-European agencies that now have operational agreements with and liaison officers inside Europol. https://www.europol.europa.eu/agreements/australia https://www.europol.europa.eu/agreements/canada But they are not members are they? I maintain your claim that we can't be 'in' Europol without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ is incorrect because the operational agreements between Canada/Australia prove otherwise. You're right, they are not full 'members'. That is because they don't have to be. It is in Europol's interest to have close cooperation with the law enforcement agencies of non-member countries. It is in Canada's & Australia's interest to have close cooperation with Europol. It is a reciprocal agreement so both sides benefit. So you agree that they are not members and can't be unless accepting the ECJ jurisdiction? I've already agreed Canada & Australia aren't full members. If accepting ECJ jurisdiction is a prerequisite for full membership then they would struggle to be. You said "in" Europol. In at what level/tier is the crucial factor. You phrased it as though there was no other option but accept ECJ jurisdiction. I am simply pointing out there is an option. Do you agree we can be 'in' Europol as an operational member/partner (whatever the next level down is) without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ?" No, to be "in" europol is to be a member, and that is overseen by the ECJ, as with any EU agency. | |||
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" I don't know why you are advocating for a scenario that makes both the UK and the EU less secure. That is not a win for either party. Please can you give a couple of examples of when EU security policy has gone against the UK's interests?" Neither do I, I dont think I am! There you go building another strawman. Why do you persist in doing so? What I,m hoping for is that we remain close allies and will continue to share information for our mutual benefit. Of course its not a win for the EU, we are leaving and that is the reality of the situation. You do accept were leaving, I hope. They will lose our input and and we theirs, unless a future relationship as close to the one we currently enjoy can be maintained. That,s why if both parties have their citizens best interests at heart, pragmatism and compromise will prevail and what we have at the moment will continue with some changes in the future. Why should I answer a question on a position I dont hold? Please stop this misrepresentation of the points I,m trying to make. I have not attempted to exaggerate or fabricate your argument or points, rational debate cannot continue when you do so. Please do me the same courtesy or there really isnt any point conversing. | |||
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" I don't know why you are advocating for a scenario that makes both the UK and the EU less secure. That is not a win for either party. Please can you give a couple of examples of when EU security policy has gone against the UK's interests? Neither do I, I dont think I am! There you go building another strawman. Why do you persist in doing so? What I,m hoping for is that we remain close allies and will continue to share information for our mutual benefit. Of course its not a win for the EU, we are leaving and that is the reality of the situation. You do accept were leaving, I hope. They will lose our input and and we theirs, unless a future relationship as close to the one we currently enjoy can be maintained. That,s why if both parties have their citizens best interests at heart, pragmatism and compromise will prevail and what we have at the moment will continue with some changes in the future. Why should I answer a question on a position I dont hold? Please stop this misrepresentation of the points I,m trying to make. I have not attempted to exaggerate or fabricate your argument or points, rational debate cannot continue when you do so. Please do me the same courtesy or there really isnt any point conversing. " Unfortunately replies like that are hard to come by. The normal course is to misrepresent other posters, in the grand scheme of trying to 'win' the discussion, rather than trying to come to a rational understanding or follow a point through. The method is stereotypical of the way politicians speak. | |||
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" I don't know why you are advocating for a scenario that makes both the UK and the EU less secure. That is not a win for either party. Please can you give a couple of examples of when EU security policy has gone against the UK's interests? Neither do I, I dont think I am! There you go building another strawman. Why do you persist in doing so? What I,m hoping for is that we remain close allies and will continue to share information for our mutual benefit. Of course its not a win for the EU, we are leaving and that is the reality of the situation. You do accept were leaving, I hope. They will lose our input and and we theirs, unless a future relationship as close to the one we currently enjoy can be maintained. That,s why if both parties have their citizens best interests at heart, pragmatism and compromise will prevail and what we have at the moment will continue with some changes in the future. Why should I answer a question on a position I dont hold? Please stop this misrepresentation of the points I,m trying to make. I have not attempted to exaggerate or fabricate your argument or points, rational debate cannot continue when you do so. Please do me the same courtesy or there really isnt any point conversing. " You have been selective in your quote to get around what you said. You said "After all, why should we be chained to an organisation who's security policy goes against the interests of our own country?" Therefore it is perfectly reasonable to ask for examples of when the EU's security policy has gone against the UK's interests. | |||
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"And you have been equally selective by ignoring the context in which it was written. This is the quote in full here, "Will the policy of protecting its citizens in the EU be so different from ours? If it is, maybe we would better off out if that's the case. After all, why should we be chained to an organisation who's security policy goes against the interests of our own country?" Which was made in response to this, your post, which I quote here in full "There is more than just sharing information, there is influencing policy, we can't do that from the outside." It is you that suggests that we could no longer influence policy not me, what examples of the past when we were a member are completely irrelevant in the future when we are not. It is you that is suggesting that we cant influence policy therefore if that policy is contrary to the interests of the UK, then it makes sense that we should have nothing to do with it. This will be my last response to you on this matter. Enjoy your victory parade." You haven't provided a single example, because you can't. You also can't give an example of where a non EU country has influenced EUMS, or the Common Foreign and Security Policy, or the European External Action Service. Sharing information is only a limited part of the defence, security and intelligence mechanisms that we are currently involved in. By leaving these it will make both the UK and the EU weaker. This was all explained before the referendum, but Brexit voters didn't care. | |||
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" It is you that suggests that we could no longer influence policy not me, what examples of the past when we were a member are completely irrelevant in the future when we are not. It is you that is suggesting that we cant influence policy therefore if that policy is contrary to the interests of the UK, then it makes sense that we should have nothing to do with it. This will be my last response to you on this matter. Enjoy your victory parade. You haven't provided a single example, because you can't. You also can't give an example of where a non EU country has influenced EUMS, or the Common Foreign and Security Policy, or the European External Action Service. Sharing information is only a limited part of the defence, security and intelligence mechanisms that we are currently involved in. By leaving these it will make both the UK and the EU weaker. This was all explained before the referendum, but Brexit voters didn't care." I can't work out if you genuinely can't differentiate, or just choose parts of the discussion that suit your point. Those aspects are part of an eu military and foreign policy that people specifically do not want. Is it beyond your imagination to see it is perfectly possible for two countries or entities to share information for mutual benefit without having jurisdiction? As the other poster mentioned it becomes so tedious. I'm out too, in the 100% satisfaction that we will continue a good working relationship on security with other eu members. | |||
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"Thee are a number of reasons while people are leaving although Brexit is one of them. It has everything to do with Brexit. Absolutely everything.Bollocks So whats it down to ? " I have done a thread about the effect. | |||
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"And you have been equally selective by ignoring the context in which it was written. This is the quote in full here, "Will the policy of protecting its citizens in the EU be so different from ours? If it is, maybe we would better off out if that's the case. After all, why should we be chained to an organisation who's security policy goes against the interests of our own country?" Which was made in response to this, your post, which I quote here in full "There is more than just sharing information, there is influencing policy, we can't do that from the outside." It is you that suggests that we could no longer influence policy not me, what examples of the past when we were a member are completely irrelevant in the future when we are not. It is you that is suggesting that we cant influence policy therefore if that policy is contrary to the interests of the UK, then it makes sense that we should have nothing to do with it. This will be my last response to you on this matter. Enjoy your victory parade. You haven't provided a single example, because you can't. You also can't give an example of where a non EU country has influenced EUMS, or the Common Foreign and Security Policy, or the European External Action Service. Sharing information is only a limited part of the defence, security and intelligence mechanisms that we are currently involved in. By leaving these it will make both the UK and the EU weaker. This was all explained before the referendum, but Brexit voters didn't care." The CFSP sees NATO as responsible for the territorial defence of Europe. As non EU countries are members of NATO it is certain they have influenced it. The European External Action Service (EEAS) is responsible for the development and execution of the Common Security and Defence Policy (CSDP). The EU Military Staff (EUMS) are the source of military expertise within the EEAS. As all three are linked they have all been influenced by non EU countries. | |||
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" No side step at all. We can't be in agencies such as Europol without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ. Are you sure? Australia and Canada are among the non-European agencies that now have operational agreements with and liaison officers inside Europol. https://www.europol.europa.eu/agreements/australia https://www.europol.europa.eu/agreements/canada But they are not members are they? I maintain your claim that we can't be 'in' Europol without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ is incorrect because the operational agreements between Canada/Australia prove otherwise. You're right, they are not full 'members'. That is because they don't have to be. It is in Europol's interest to have close cooperation with the law enforcement agencies of non-member countries. It is in Canada's & Australia's interest to have close cooperation with Europol. It is a reciprocal agreement so both sides benefit. So you agree that they are not members and can't be unless accepting the ECJ jurisdiction? I've already agreed Canada & Australia aren't full members. If accepting ECJ jurisdiction is a prerequisite for full membership then they would struggle to be. You said "in" Europol. In at what level/tier is the crucial factor. You phrased it as though there was no other option but accept ECJ jurisdiction. I am simply pointing out there is an option. Do you agree we can be 'in' Europol as an operational member/partner (whatever the next level down is) without accepting the jurisdiction of the ECJ? No, to be "in" europol is to be a member, and that is overseen by the ECJ, as with any EU agency." We don't need to be in Europol, as Europol is just a poor man's Interpol. We will be a full member of Interpol after Brexit and Interpol covers Europe as well as the rest of the world without the ECJ having any jurisdiction. | |||
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"So you guys rely on the old brexit lie of having your cake and eating it. That we are going to enjoy all the same benefits of being a member of a club, but not have to abide by any of the club rules and regulations or pay a membership fee. Sorry guys, but that's not how the world works." Whereas you think to do any task we need to accept whatever we are told or pay billions of pounds in fees. The world doesn't work like that. It works by people deciding what neds to be done and a sensible way of achieving it. | |||
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"So you guys rely on the old brexit lie of having your cake and eating it. That we are going to enjoy all the same benefits of being a member of a club, but not have to abide by any of the club rules and regulations or pay a membership fee. Sorry guys, but that's not how the world works. Whereas you think to do any task we need to accept whatever we are told or pay billions of pounds in fees. The world doesn't work like that. It works by people deciding what neds to be done and a sensible way of achieving it. " You can't achieve the same out of the club as in the club. | |||
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"So you guys rely on the old brexit lie of having your cake and eating it. That we are going to enjoy all the same benefits of being a member of a club, but not have to abide by any of the club rules and regulations or pay a membership fee. Sorry guys, but that's not how the world works. Whereas you think to do any task we need to accept whatever we are told or pay billions of pounds in fees. The world doesn't work like that. It works by people deciding what neds to be done and a sensible way of achieving it. You can't achieve the same out of the club as in the club. " And what club are any of the brick countries in? | |||
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"So you guys rely on the old brexit lie of having your cake and eating it. That we are going to enjoy all the same benefits of being a member of a club, but not have to abide by any of the club rules and regulations or pay a membership fee. Sorry guys, but that's not how the world works. Whereas you think to do any task we need to accept whatever we are told or pay billions of pounds in fees. The world doesn't work like that. It works by people deciding what neds to be done and a sensible way of achieving it. You can't achieve the same out of the club as in the club. And what club are any of the brick countries in?" Do you mean BRICS? They are in the G20, which as far as I am aware is an economic forum, rather than defence, security or intelligence forum. | |||
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"That isn't what NATO is for, it's only for the defence of its members. I,d lay part of the blame on the UN for what happened in the former Yugoslavia. " i have lived in australia with yugoslavs in the 80's they were in 2 groups the muslims and the non muslims . they hated each other then. only speaking through formen etc the war in the former yugoslavia also a relative married a serb and he always talked of the tension between citizens . we only know a small amount about this through news , they lived it .so while we a chat on here about the world we really know very little. its all just opinions based on little knowledge. just like car mechanics standing around a 1,000,000 car arguing about the design. when they usually only know how to fix a fiesta . | |||
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"Dropped below 1.1 now. Every possibility of parity by the time the next round of negotiations starts. Bearing in mind we are an importing nation and the drop in value is about one third, this Brexit nonsense is starting to cost us all very dearly. Could it even go the other way and the £GBP drops below parity? Seems unthinkable. " They will still swear all is rosy in the garden there just deluding themselves...how on earth anyone can justify this is beyond me and thinking brexit is good for the country....but hey it dont matter johnny foreigner will be gone soon or will he ?  | |||
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"There are negatives and positives to the rate drop. Obviously imports are more expensive and foreign holidays. On the positive side our exports are more competitive and UK manufactured and grown goods are more competitive in the home market. That will help UK manufacturing and agriculture, ultimately it will benefit the UK manufacturing sector, dismissed and ignored for so long by all governments." Nice spin...wont work...have a guess why ? | |||
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"There are negatives and positives to the rate drop. Obviously imports are more expensive and foreign holidays. On the positive side our exports are more competitive and UK manufactured and grown goods are more competitive in the home market. That will help UK manufacturing and agriculture, ultimately it will benefit the UK manufacturing sector, dismissed and ignored for so long by all governments. Nice spin...wont work...have a guess why ?" I'm sure you'll tell us, followed by accusing me of hating foreigners, but carry on. | |||
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"There are negatives and positives to the rate drop. Obviously imports are more expensive and foreign holidays. On the positive side our exports are more competitive and UK manufactured and grown goods are more competitive in the home market. That will help UK manufacturing and agriculture, ultimately it will benefit the UK manufacturing sector, dismissed and ignored for so long by all governments. Nice spin...wont work...have a guess why ? I'm sure you'll tell us, followed by accusing me of hating foreigners, but carry on." Nah ...i asked you why it wont work in our favour ? | |||
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"There are negatives and positives to the rate drop. Obviously imports are more expensive and foreign holidays. On the positive side our exports are more competitive and UK manufactured and grown goods are more competitive in the home market. That will help UK manufacturing and agriculture, ultimately it will benefit the UK manufacturing sector, dismissed and ignored for so long by all governments. Nice spin...wont work...have a guess why ? I'm sure you'll tell us, followed by accusing me of hating foreigners, but carry on. Nah ...i asked you why it wont work in our favour ?" Well, it currently does. My company is selling more in the EU and the USA, and at a higher profit than previously. | |||
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"There are negatives and positives to the rate drop. Obviously imports are more expensive and foreign holidays. On the positive side our exports are more competitive and UK manufactured and grown goods are more competitive in the home market. That will help UK manufacturing and agriculture, ultimately it will benefit the UK manufacturing sector, dismissed and ignored for so long by all governments. Nice spin...wont work...have a guess why ? I'm sure you'll tell us, followed by accusing me of hating foreigners, but carry on. Nah ...i asked you why it wont work in our favour ? Well, it currently does. My company is selling more in the EU and the USA, and at a higher profit than previously." Really so how does that benefit the normal person who's booking holidays etc etc in the EU or anywhere else that uses the currencies...and what about the companies that are importing food etc etc...or is it a case of im alright jack....mind you those 30 jobs at Boeing might be a bit safer now....but for a few thousand more they might bit a bit more uncertain | |||
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"There are negatives and positives to the rate drop. Obviously imports are more expensive and foreign holidays. On the positive side our exports are more competitive and UK manufactured and grown goods are more competitive in the home market. That will help UK manufacturing and agriculture, ultimately it will benefit the UK manufacturing sector, dismissed and ignored for so long by all governments. Nice spin...wont work...have a guess why ? I'm sure you'll tell us, followed by accusing me of hating foreigners, but carry on. Nah ...i asked you why it wont work in our favour ? Well, it currently does. My company is selling more in the EU and the USA, and at a higher profit than previously. Really so how does that benefit the normal person who's booking holidays etc etc in the EU or anywhere else that uses the currencies...and what about the companies that are importing food etc etc...or is it a case of im alright jack....mind you those 30 jobs at Boeing might be a bit safer now....but for a few thousand more they might bit a bit more uncertain" Have you read the first sentence in my post? You often claim superior intellect to others, seeing and understanding that there are different facets to an issue might be helpful. It isn't a case of I'm alright jack, cost of imported goods rising is a major issue. However, on the other side, as a country our trade defecit has got worse and worse over the years, our support and understanding of UK based manufacturing and technology, has been poor. This country has the ability to produce high quality products and produce, and to innovate. The fall in Sterling helps the competitiveness of products manufactured here and grown here. Those companies employ millions of people, pay corporation tax and inject billions of pounds into the economy through their employees and their suppliers employees. You never explained why you think the exporter isn't at an advantage in the current situation btw. | |||
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"There are negatives and positives to the rate drop. Obviously imports are more expensive and foreign holidays. On the positive side our exports are more competitive and UK manufactured and grown goods are more competitive in the home market. That will help UK manufacturing and agriculture, ultimately it will benefit the UK manufacturing sector, dismissed and ignored for so long by all governments." The vast majority of people in this country do not export anything. Overwhelmingly, ordinary people are pre-school, studying, employed or retired and these ordinary people are very negatively affected by such a big fall in the value of £GBP. The Brexit voice to date has been... "it is worth it." The numbers saying that will reduce the longer this drags on and the more financial hardship that people are subjected to. Remember the pitch... "Brexit will be a piece of cake, we leave the EU and the £350 million a week in fees can be spent on the NHS and the UK can trade freely with the rest of the world." NO one said.... You will be poorer Your holidays will be more expensive The decision will create a nasty and divisive rift in society The newspapers and social media will be full of angry and hateful stories Banks and other financial institutions will leave the country Tax revenues will fall | |||
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"There are negatives and positives to the rate drop. Obviously imports are more expensive and foreign holidays. On the positive side our exports are more competitive and UK manufactured and grown goods are more competitive in the home market. That will help UK manufacturing and agriculture, ultimately it will benefit the UK manufacturing sector, dismissed and ignored for so long by all governments. Nice spin...wont work...have a guess why ? I'm sure you'll tell us, followed by accusing me of hating foreigners, but carry on. Nah ...i asked you why it wont work in our favour ? Well, it currently does. My company is selling more in the EU and the USA, and at a higher profit than previously. Really so how does that benefit the normal person who's booking holidays etc etc in the EU or anywhere else that uses the currencies...and what about the companies that are importing food etc etc...or is it a case of im alright jack....mind you those 30 jobs at Boeing might be a bit safer now....but for a few thousand more they might bit a bit more uncertain Have you read the first sentence in my post? You often claim superior intellect to others, seeing and understanding that there are different facets to an issue might be helpful. It isn't a case of I'm alright jack, cost of imported goods rising is a major issue. However, on the other side, as a country our trade defecit has got worse and worse over the years, our support and understanding of UK based manufacturing and technology, has been poor. This country has the ability to produce high quality products and produce, and to innovate. The fall in Sterling helps the competitiveness of products manufactured here and grown here. Those companies employ millions of people, pay corporation tax and inject billions of pounds into the economy through their employees and their suppliers employees. You never explained why you think the exporter isn't at an advantage in the current situation btw." Because we import more than we export...and peoples jobs rely on it...im betting much more than the millions you have just quoted if im honest...hows that for an answer | |||
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"There are negatives and positives to the rate drop. Obviously imports are more expensive and foreign holidays. On the positive side our exports are more competitive and UK manufactured and grown goods are more competitive in the home market. That will help UK manufacturing and agriculture, ultimately it will benefit the UK manufacturing sector, dismissed and ignored for so long by all governments. The vast majority of people in this country do not export anything. Overwhelmingly, ordinary people are pre-school, studying, employed or retired and these ordinary people are very negatively affected by such a big fall in the value of £GBP. The Brexit voice to date has been... "it is worth it." The numbers saying that will reduce the longer this drags on and the more financial hardship that people are subjected to. Remember the pitch... "Brexit will be a piece of cake, we leave the EU and the £350 million a week in fees can be spent on the NHS and the UK can trade freely with the rest of the world." NO one said.... You will be poorer Your holidays will be more expensive The decision will create a nasty and divisive rift in society The newspapers and social media will be full of angry and hateful stories Banks and other financial institutions will leave the country Tax revenues will fall " OK, what are the employed people doing in your scenario? Do you believe we can survive with a perpetual negative balance of trade? Do you believe improving the competitiveness of UK manufacturing and export is a good thing? I've already said the cost of imports is a negative. The issue in this forum, is that there are a majority of posters who will only bang on about one side of this. BTW on your finishing rant, I don't see a rift in society apart from in this petty forum, and tax receipts are the same or higher than last year. | |||
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" You never explained why you think the exporter isn't at an advantage in the current situation btw. Because we import more than we export...and peoples jobs rely on it...im betting much more than the millions you have just quoted if im honest...hows that for an answer "That isn't an explanation of why exporters aren't at an advantage, it's an explanation of why importers are at a disadvantage. Do you understand the difference? Let's say last year French apples were £1 / kilo and British apples were £1.1 / kilo. This year because of the currency fluctuation the french apples willbe £1.3/kilo , English apples are cheaper. Joe Bloggs the farmer in Somerset sells more apples and employs more staff and pays more tax. A Jaguar that was £30k = €39k in Germany is now €33k in Germany. Jaguar sell more cars, employ more people and pay more tax. These are good things. In the next few years there will be lots of changes, some painful. But this country needs a re-alignment in how we operate and what we do. Regardless of Brexit, there also needs to be a huge shift in our emphasis in STEM education, and our awareness of technology and hi-tech manufacturing. | |||
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"Dropped below 1.1 now. Every possibility of parity by the time the next round of negotiations starts. Bearing in mind we are an importing nation and the drop in value is about one third, this Brexit nonsense is starting to cost us all very dearly. Could it even go the other way and the £GBP drops below parity? Seems unthinkable. " . Genuine question... Why do you think the GBP should be valued higher than the euro or the dollar?. | |||
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" You never explained why you think the exporter isn't at an advantage in the current situation btw. Because we import more than we export...and peoples jobs rely on it...im betting much more than the millions you have just quoted if im honest...hows that for an answer
That isn't an explanation of why exporters aren't at an advantage, it's an explanation of why importers are at a disadvantage.
Do you understand the difference?
Let's say last year French apples were £1 / kilo and British apples were £1.1 / kilo. This year because of the currency fluctuation the french apples willbe £1.3/kilo , English apples are cheaper. Joe Bloggs the farmer in Somerset sells more apples and employs more staff and pays more tax.
A Jaguar that was £30k = €39k in Germany is now €33k in Germany. Jaguar sell more cars, employ more people and pay more tax. These are good things.
In the next few years there will be lots of changes, some painful. But this country needs a re-alignment in how we operate and what we do.
Regardless of Brexit, there also needs to be a huge shift in our emphasis in STEM education, and our awareness of technology and hi-tech manufacturing."We export more that means MORE companies will be feeling the squeeze....that means MORE jobs are at stake...do you think that's a good position to be in...i'm concerned about the normal worker losing his job over this NOT big companies making more profit...  | |||
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" That isn't an explanation of why exporters aren't at an advantage, it's an explanation of why importers are at a disadvantage. Do you understand the difference? Let's say last year French apples were £1 / kilo and British apples were £1.1 / kilo. This year because of the currency fluctuation the french apples willbe £1.3/kilo , English apples are cheaper. Joe Bloggs the farmer in Somerset sells more apples and employs more staff and pays more tax. A Jaguar that was £30k = €39k in Germany is now €33k in Germany. Jaguar sell more cars, employ more people and pay more tax. These are good things. In the next few years there will be lots of changes, some painful. But this country needs a re-alignment in how we operate and what we do. Regardless of Brexit, there also needs to be a huge shift in our emphasis in STEM education, and our awareness of technology and hi-tech manufacturing. We export more that means MORE companies will be feeling the squeeze....that means MORE jobs are at stake...do you think that's a good position to be in...i'm concerned about the normal worker losing his job over this NOT big companies making more profit... "No we don't, we import more. How do you equate that people working in imports are normal workers, yet people working in export are just big company profits. Would you like us to have a positive balance of trade and a healthy manufacturing sector, like Germany? | |||
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" That isn't an explanation of why exporters aren't at an advantage, it's an explanation of why importers are at a disadvantage. Do you understand the difference? Let's say last year French apples were £1 / kilo and British apples were £1.1 / kilo. This year because of the currency fluctuation the french apples willbe £1.3/kilo , English apples are cheaper. Joe Bloggs the farmer in Somerset sells more apples and employs more staff and pays more tax. A Jaguar that was £30k = €39k in Germany is now €33k in Germany. Jaguar sell more cars, employ more people and pay more tax. These are good things. In the next few years there will be lots of changes, some painful. But this country needs a re-alignment in how we operate and what we do. Regardless of Brexit, there also needs to be a huge shift in our emphasis in STEM education, and our awareness of technology and hi-tech manufacturing. We export more that means MORE companies will be feeling the squeeze....that means MORE jobs are at stake...do you think that's a good position to be in...i'm concerned about the normal worker losing his job over this NOT big companies making more profit...
No we don't, we import more.
How do you equate that people working in imports are normal workers, yet people working in export are just big company profits.
Would you like us to have a positive balance of trade and a healthy manufacturing sector, like Germany?"Exactly and before you say anything i miss typed...so you don't think people don't work in the importing sector thats were most are at risk with this exchange rate....and btw most of these companies that your talking about arnt ever owned by UK ...so most of the tax breaks the get from this government is going aboard | |||
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" That isn't an explanation of why exporters aren't at an advantage, it's an explanation of why importers are at a disadvantage. Do you understand the difference? Let's say last year French apples were £1 / kilo and British apples were £1.1 / kilo. This year because of the currency fluctuation the french apples willbe £1.3/kilo , English apples are cheaper. Joe Bloggs the farmer in Somerset sells more apples and employs more staff and pays more tax. A Jaguar that was £30k = €39k in Germany is now €33k in Germany. Jaguar sell more cars, employ more people and pay more tax. These are good things. In the next few years there will be lots of changes, some painful. But this country needs a re-alignment in how we operate and what we do. Regardless of Brexit, there also needs to be a huge shift in our emphasis in STEM education, and our awareness of technology and hi-tech manufacturing. We export more that means MORE companies will be feeling the squeeze....that means MORE jobs are at stake...do you think that's a good position to be in...i'm concerned about the normal worker losing his job over this NOT big companies making more profit...
No we don't, we import more.
How do you equate that people working in imports are normal workers, yet people working in export are just big company profits.
Would you like us to have a positive balance of trade and a healthy manufacturing sector, like Germany?
Exactly and before you say anything i miss typed...so you don't think people don't work in the importing sector thats were most are at risk with this exchange rate....and btw most of these companies that your talking about arnt ever owned by UK ...so most of the tax breaks the get from this government is going aboard "Ok. Would you rather we have a positive balance of trade? You keep implying uk manufacturers are in some way dodgy / don't pay tax etc but importers employ normal people and do pay tax. Having a healthy uk manufacturing and agriculture is good for the country. That is just a fact. We cannot survive just importing everything, we will wither. | |||
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" That isn't an explanation of why exporters aren't at an advantage, it's an explanation of why importers are at a disadvantage. Do you understand the difference? Let's say last year French apples were £1 / kilo and British apples were £1.1 / kilo. This year because of the currency fluctuation the french apples willbe £1.3/kilo , English apples are cheaper. Joe Bloggs the farmer in Somerset sells more apples and employs more staff and pays more tax. A Jaguar that was £30k = €39k in Germany is now €33k in Germany. Jaguar sell more cars, employ more people and pay more tax. These are good things. In the next few years there will be lots of changes, some painful. But this country needs a re-alignment in how we operate and what we do. Regardless of Brexit, there also needs to be a huge shift in our emphasis in STEM education, and our awareness of technology and hi-tech manufacturing. We export more that means MORE companies will be feeling the squeeze....that means MORE jobs are at stake...do you think that's a good position to be in...i'm concerned about the normal worker losing his job over this NOT big companies making more profit...
No we don't, we import more.
How do you equate that people working in imports are normal workers, yet people working in export are just big company profits.
Would you like us to have a positive balance of trade and a healthy manufacturing sector, like Germany?
Exactly and before you say anything i miss typed...so you don't think people don't work in the importing sector thats were most are at risk with this exchange rate....and btw most of these companies that your talking about arnt ever owned by UK ...so most of the tax breaks the get from this government is going aboard
Ok.
Would you rather we have a positive balance of trade?
You keep implying uk manufacturers are in some way dodgy / don't pay tax etc but importers employ normal people and do pay tax.
Having a healthy uk manufacturing and agriculture is good for the country. That is just a fact.
We cannot survive just importing everything, we will wither."Your arguments are not wrong but the cause and effect dimension is spurious. The value of a currency is equivalent to the heartbeat in the human body in as much as it is a good indicator of health and prognosis going forwards. The currency collapse has been brought about solely and absolutely because the markets have more faith in the Eurozone than they they do in the UK. The current pathway by the U.K. Govt is seen by the markets to be poor and hence there is little confidence in the currency. If the country was geared up to be a significant exporter of goods then this fall in the value of the currency could be exploited and indeed the Govt could make a focused effort to realign the economy and make more efforts to keep the currency undervalued. The fact is that the collapse of the currency is out of control and will continue to be until May, Davis or someone else is able to instil confidence in the future. Without confidence in the future, the economy as a whole is at great risk no matter how individuals may temporarily profit from the circumstances. A person who is unaware that they have cancer can celebrate finally losing some weight but that feeling is only temporary when realisation dawns as the undying reason of the weight loss. | |||
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"We are actively buying British whenever and wherever possible now. We go to the local farm shop to get fresh fruit and veg. There's some allotments down the road that have their own shop. We now only buy British meat. Our next new car will be British made. We have started drinking English wine, vodka and gin almost exclusively, although J does like her prosecco!" At least you know your UK produced eggs will be safe unlike from Mainland EU where there is still risk you could be buying eggs contaminated with pesticides. Another plus side to the drop in the value of the pound is the boost to the UK tourism industry. I've already had one weeks holiday in the UK this year down on the south coast in Weymouth, Dorset. The weather was great got a cracking suntan and the currency exchange rate didn't affect my UK holiday one bit. UK tourism industry has been boosted by the drop in the value of the pound and has brought in many people from other parts of the world to holiday in the UK and enjoy a better rate of exchange for them on currency so they are spending more of their money while here in UK shops. | |||
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"We are actively buying British whenever and wherever possible now. We go to the local farm shop to get fresh fruit and veg. There's some allotments down the road that have their own shop. We now only buy British meat. Our next new car will be British made. We have started drinking English wine, vodka and gin almost exclusively, although J does like her prosecco!" British built cars using imported components......nice work | |||
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"Anybody want to answer this then as the poster isn't interested. . Genuine question... Why do you think the GBP should be valued higher than the euro or the dollar?." It is not necessarily values higher or lower. The value of a currency is an indicator of its health and future prognosis - a bit like a heart beat. The currency should find its own value on the world market based on the health and prognosis of the economy. The issue here is about faith in the future of two economies - the EU and the UK. Because economists, traders andvthe money markets have more confidence in the EU than the the UK, so the Euro strengthens against the GBP, | |||
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"Anybody want to answer this then as the poster isn't interested. . Genuine question... Why do you think the GBP should be valued higher than the euro or the dollar?." It shouldn't.It was an over valued currency before brexit.Its probably where it should be now. | |||
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"Anybody want to answer this then as the poster isn't interested. . Genuine question... Why do you think the GBP should be valued higher than the euro or the dollar?. It is not necessarily values higher or lower. The value of a currency is an indicator of its health and future prognosis - a bit like a heart beat. The currency should find its own value on the world market based on the health and prognosis of the economy. The issue here is about faith in the future of two economies - the EU and the UK. Because economists, traders andvthe money markets have more confidence in the EU than the the UK, so the Euro strengthens against the GBP," . Markets couldn't care, they want profit, nothing more nothing less. Most currency is traded by the hour nobody gives a shit about a year's time or two year's time. The only thing that's been overvaluing sterling for the last 30 years or more is financial trading and oil exporting and that's the only thing bringing the currency down now as rightly there assuming that the UK will no longer be able to carry on with the same level of financial trade and oil is going down the pan. We have one of the worst trade deficits in the developed world, partly caused by the overvaluing of sterling, when you have a terrible trade deficit you have a weak currency because you have to swap your pound for the exporters currency when you buy there trade and there currency strengthens because your buying there currency to buy their goods. Now exports are up but unfortunately so are imports and finance is shite and oil is still going down hill... This means the GBP will fall until balance occurs in trade or you offer them profit by increasing interest rates to something like 5%. | |||
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"We are actively buying British whenever and wherever possible now. We go to the local farm shop to get fresh fruit and veg. There's some allotments down the road that have their own shop. We now only buy British meat. Our next new car will be British made. We have started drinking English wine, vodka and gin almost exclusively, although J does like her prosecco! British built cars using imported components......nice work" Not true. Lots of British based suppliers to the uk car plants. But the current sterling rate will make it easier for more to compete and employ more people here. | |||
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"We are actively buying British whenever and wherever possible now. We go to the local farm shop to get fresh fruit and veg. There's some allotments down the road that have their own shop. We now only buy British meat. Our next new car will be British made. We have started drinking English wine, vodka and gin almost exclusively, although J does like her prosecco! British built cars using imported components......nice work Not true. Lots of British based suppliers to the uk car plants. But the current sterling rate will make it easier for more to compete and employ more people here." Nissan have said that by the time Brexit occurs 80% of the car parts for UK factory made cars will be sourced here in the UK. | |||
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"We are actively buying British whenever and wherever possible now. We go to the local farm shop to get fresh fruit and veg. There's some allotments down the road that have their own shop. We now only buy British meat. Our next new car will be British made. We have started drinking English wine, vodka and gin almost exclusively, although J does like her prosecco! British built cars using imported components......nice work Not true. Lots of British based suppliers to the uk car plants. But the current sterling rate will make it easier for more to compete and employ more people here. Nissan have said that by the time Brexit occurs 80% of the car parts for UK factory made cars will be sourced here in the UK. " 100% of ice lolly wrappers will be made here as well | |||
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" British built cars using imported components......nice work Not true. Lots of British based suppliers to the uk car plants. But the current sterling rate will make it easier for more to compete and employ more people here. Nissan have said that by the time Brexit occurs 80% of the car parts for UK factory made cars will be sourced here in the UK. 100% of ice lolly wrappers will be made here as well "What does that even mean? You seem to dislike the fact that there might be some good happening. | |||
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" British built cars using imported components......nice work Not true. Lots of British based suppliers to the uk car plants. But the current sterling rate will make it easier for more to compete and employ more people here. Nissan have said that by the time Brexit occurs 80% of the car parts for UK factory made cars will be sourced here in the UK. 100% of ice lolly wrappers will be made here as well
What does that even mean? You seem to dislike the fact that there might be some good happening.
"like everything just goes over your head...tbh you never see the bigger picture | |||
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" British built cars using imported components......nice work Not true. Lots of British based suppliers to the uk car plants. But the current sterling rate will make it easier for more to compete and employ more people here. Nissan have said that by the time Brexit occurs 80% of the car parts for UK factory made cars will be sourced here in the UK. 100% of ice lolly wrappers will be made here as well
What does that even mean? You seem to dislike the fact that there might be some good happening.
like everything just goes over your head...tbh you never see the bigger picture "Explain to me how you deriding a british built car using 80% british parts went over my head. | |||
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" British built cars using imported components......nice work Not true. Lots of British based suppliers to the uk car plants. But the current sterling rate will make it easier for more to compete and employ more people here. Nissan have said that by the time Brexit occurs 80% of the car parts for UK factory made cars will be sourced here in the UK. 100% of ice lolly wrappers will be made here as well
What does that even mean? You seem to dislike the fact that there might be some good happening.
like everything just goes over your head...tbh you never see the bigger picture
Explain to me how you deriding a british built car using 80% british parts went over my head."Lol | |||
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" like everything just goes over your head...tbh you never see the bigger picture
Explain to me how you deriding a british built car using 80% british parts went over my head.
Lol "I.e you can't so just put a meaningless emoji. Have you got any sensible comments to write, or just put downs to any positive information? | |||
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"Why all this talk about manufacturing and goods, when 80% of our GDP is from services? " . That figure alone should scare the pants off you! | |||
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"Why all this talk about manufacturing and goods, when 80% of our GDP is from services? . That figure alone should scare the pants off you!" The bulk of the service industry is not involved in exports. The portion that is, also benefits from a lower exchange rate. | |||
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"Why all this talk about manufacturing and goods, when 80% of our GDP is from services? " other than people whether they like it or not baiscally forgetting that we are a net importer rather than exporter this is probably the most important thing said in this thread.... so as i am glad that "some" are benefitting from the drop in currency... MOST people are losing rather than winning!... and i think that is what people are forgetting in trying to make their points of principle... | |||
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"Why all this talk about manufacturing and goods, when 80% of our GDP is from services? other than people whether they like it or not baiscally forgetting that we are a net importer rather than exporter this is probably the most important thing said in this thread.... so as i am glad that "some" are benefitting from the drop in currency... MOST people are losing rather than winning!... and i think that is what people are forgetting in trying to make their points of principle..." I agree. But, the current situation with a negative balance of trade and a declining manufacturing sector is un-sustainable. At some point it has to be fixed. Doing so is in the near-short term and long term good of the country as a whole. | |||
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"Why all this talk about manufacturing and goods, when 80% of our GDP is from services? other than people whether they like it or not baiscally forgetting that we are a net importer rather than exporter this is probably the most important thing said in this thread.... so as i am glad that "some" are benefitting from the drop in currency... MOST people are losing rather than winning!... and i think that is what people are forgetting in trying to make their points of principle... I agree. But, the current situation with a negative balance of trade and a declining manufacturing sector is un-sustainable. At some point it has to be fixed. Doing so is in the near-short term and long term good of the country as a whole." Declining manufacturing is inevitable. | |||
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" I agree. But, the current situation with a negative balance of trade and a declining manufacturing sector is un-sustainable. At some point it has to be fixed. Doing so is in the near-short term and long term good of the country as a whole. Declining manufacturing is inevitable. " No it isn't. In a country that is run by people who don't understand it or the value of it, it is inevitible. If you think we can prosper by building more and more Starbucks then you are wrong. | |||
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" I agree. But, the current situation with a negative balance of trade and a declining manufacturing sector is un-sustainable. At some point it has to be fixed. Doing so is in the near-short term and long term good of the country as a whole. Declining manufacturing is inevitable. No it isn't. In a country that is run by people who don't understand it or the value of it, it is inevitible. If you think we can prosper by building more and more Starbucks then you are wrong." But it is inevitable though. | |||
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" I agree. But, the current situation with a negative balance of trade and a declining manufacturing sector is un-sustainable. At some point it has to be fixed. Doing so is in the near-short term and long term good of the country as a whole. Declining manufacturing is inevitable. No it isn't. In a country that is run by people who don't understand it or the value of it, it is inevitible. If you think we can prosper by building more and more Starbucks then you are wrong. But it is inevitable though. " Then our demise is inevitable. I don't accept either. | |||
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" I agree. But, the current situation with a negative balance of trade and a declining manufacturing sector is un-sustainable. At some point it has to be fixed. Doing so is in the near-short term and long term good of the country as a whole. Declining manufacturing is inevitable. No it isn't. In a country that is run by people who don't understand it or the value of it, it is inevitible. If you think we can prosper by building more and more Starbucks then you are wrong. But it is inevitable though. Then our demise is inevitable. I don't accept either." What evidence are you basing this on? If 80% of our economy is service based, doesn't that tell you anything about the relative importance of manufacturing? | |||
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" I agree. But, the current situation with a negative balance of trade and a declining manufacturing sector is un-sustainable. At some point it has to be fixed. Doing so is in the near-short term and long term good of the country as a whole. Declining manufacturing is inevitable. No it isn't. In a country that is run by people who don't understand it or the value of it, it is inevitible. If you think we can prosper by building more and more Starbucks then you are wrong. But it is inevitable though. Then our demise is inevitable. I don't accept either. What evidence are you basing this on? If 80% of our economy is service based, doesn't that tell you anything about the relative importance of manufacturing? " The bulk of that service industry is internal. It has little impact on the trade balance. The only aspect of the service industry that has a major contribution is the London finance sector. That is an issue in its own right. This thread is about exchange rates. The current exchange rate is favourable to uk based manufacturers and agriculture. Those two sectors are critical to the uk and need to grow. The current situation with rates helps that happen. | |||
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" I agree. But, the current situation with a negative balance of trade and a declining manufacturing sector is un-sustainable. At some point it has to be fixed. Doing so is in the near-short term and long term good of the country as a whole. Declining manufacturing is inevitable. No it isn't. In a country that is run by people who don't understand it or the value of it, it is inevitible. If you think we can prosper by building more and more Starbucks then you are wrong. But it is inevitable though. " Of course you are right the factory floor is in China.Its never comming back.We are better at innovative technologies and R&D. | |||
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" I agree. But, the current situation with a negative balance of trade and a declining manufacturing sector is un-sustainable. At some point it has to be fixed. Doing so is in the near-short term and long term good of the country as a whole. Declining manufacturing is inevitable. No it isn't. In a country that is run by people who don't understand it or the value of it, it is inevitible. If you think we can prosper by building more and more Starbucks then you are wrong. But it is inevitable though. Of course you are right the factory floor is in China.Its never comming back.We are better at innovative technologies and R&D." I agree with you Bob. | |||
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"We are better at innovative technologies and R&D." Sorry, you are wrong. The only reason we were better than the rest of the world at R&D was because we had the factory floors which have always been the driving forces behind innovation. We are now riding the last (diminishing) waves of innovation and in another 50 or so years time our grandchildren will be cursing us, our greed and our petty need for instant gratification and one upmanship that has allowed a few amoral individuals to hoard the majority of the world's wealth. | |||
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"As above. A modern well equipped factory is highly automated, employing highly skilled workers. Manufacturing isn't just greasy blokes whacking bits of metal wih hammers. As everything it evolves. We used to buy iron ore and transorm it into steel. Now we buy carbon fibre and craft it into cars or plane wings." Some do, but more sell insurance, do consultancy, or work in finance or the legal profession. | |||
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"I hope you all noticed that Manufacturing Output grew in the last quarter!" That's great for the 10% of the economy that manufacturing equates to, but services which equates to 80% of our economy is facing the biggest skills shortage in 20 years. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/skills-shortage-among-uk-services-firms-at-its-worst-in-almost-two-decades-finds-survey-a7913001.html | |||
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"I hope you all noticed that Manufacturing Output grew in the last quarter! That's great for the 10% of the economy that manufacturing equates to, but services which equates to 80% of our economy is facing the biggest skills shortage in 20 years. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/skills-shortage-among-uk-services-firms-at-its-worst-in-almost-two-decades-finds-survey-a7913001.html" And it will get worst...a low pound is bad for this country full stop.... | |||
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"I hope you all noticed that Manufacturing Output grew in the last quarter! That's great for the 10% of the economy that manufacturing equates to, but services which equates to 80% of our economy is facing the biggest skills shortage in 20 years. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/skills-shortage-among-uk-services-firms-at-its-worst-in-almost-two-decades-finds-survey-a7913001.html And it will get worst...a low pound is bad for this country full stop...." Yeah, its not rocket surgery. | |||
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"I hope you all noticed that Manufacturing Output grew in the last quarter! That's great for the 10% of the economy that manufacturing equates to, but services which equates to 80% of our economy is facing the biggest skills shortage in 20 years. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/skills-shortage-among-uk-services-firms-at-its-worst-in-almost-two-decades-finds-survey-a7913001.html" . It's called capitalism!. When there's a shortage you pay more to get more. It's called cronie capitalism when you can just import as much as you want to keep your costs down while mitigating any costs to yourself by having your head office in Luxembourg or Estonia or the Virgin islands. All trade agreements are wrote and designed by lawyers, politicians, lobbyists, CEOs... With zero input from civil society and often never even voted on. Who do you think there going to benefit? | |||
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"So last time it was this low we wasn't in the EU? "The lack of a response to this says it all | |||
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"So last time it was this low we wasn't in the EU?
The lack of a response to this says it all "So you think it's good that the economic situation is the same as at the height of the rescession? The biggest recession in the last 100 years? That's what you consider a success? | |||
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"So last time it was this low we wasn't in the EU?
The lack of a response to this says it all
So you think it's good that the economic situation is the same as at the height of the rescession? The biggest recession in the last 100 years? That's what you consider a success? "Did I say that? You and your inability to comprehend again. I asked if last time it was this low we wasn't in the EU? So was we? | |||
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"So last time it was this low we wasn't in the EU?
The lack of a response to this says it all
So you think it's good that the economic situation is the same as at the height of the rescession? The biggest recession in the last 100 years? That's what you consider a success?
Did I say that? You and your inability to comprehend again. I asked if last time it was this low we wasn't in the EU? So was we?"Your English is appalling. The Euro was created after the UK joined the EC (a predecessor to the EU), therefore it is impossible for a comparison of GBP and the Euro before we joined. It didn’t exist at the time. | |||
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"So last time it was this low we wasn't in the EU?
The lack of a response to this says it all
So you think it's good that the economic situation is the same as at the height of the rescession? The biggest recession in the last 100 years? That's what you consider a success?
Did I say that? You and your inability to comprehend again. I asked if last time it was this low we wasn't in the EU? So was we?
Your English is appalling. The Euro was created after the UK joined the EC (a predecessor to the EU), therefore it is impossible for a comparison of GBP and the Euro before we joined. It didn’t exist at the time."My English is fine thanks. The last time the pound was this low was we in the EU? Can you understand the question. | |||
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"So last time it was this low we wasn't in the EU?
The lack of a response to this says it all
So you think it's good that the economic situation is the same as at the height of the rescession? The biggest recession in the last 100 years? That's what you consider a success?
Did I say that? You and your inability to comprehend again. I asked if last time it was this low we wasn't in the EU? So was we?
Your English is appalling. The Euro was created after the UK joined the EC (a predecessor to the EU), therefore it is impossible for a comparison of GBP and the Euro before we joined. It didn’t exist at the time.
My English is fine thanks. The last time the pound was this low was we in the EU? Can you understand the question."No, your English is appalling. You shouldn't say "was we in the EU", you should say "were we in the EU" The pound is not "high" or "low" in isolation, you can only compare it to another currency and say is it high or low compared to currency XYZ. So which currency are you comparing it to? The OP is about comparing the pound to the Euro. | |||
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"So last time it was this low we wasn't in the EU?
The lack of a response to this says it all
So you think it's good that the economic situation is the same as at the height of the rescession? The biggest recession in the last 100 years? That's what you consider a success?
Did I say that? You and your inability to comprehend again. I asked if last time it was this low we wasn't in the EU? So was we?
Your English is appalling. The Euro was created after the UK joined the EC (a predecessor to the EU), therefore it is impossible for a comparison of GBP and the Euro before we joined. It didn’t exist at the time.
My English is fine thanks. The last time the pound was this low was we in the EU? Can you understand the question.
No, your English is appalling. You shouldn't say "was we in the EU", you should say "were we in the EU"
The pound is not "high" or "low" in isolation, you can only compare it to another currency and say is it high or low compared to currency XYZ. So which currency are you comparing it to? The OP is about comparing the pound to the Euro. "You really are hard work. The op was talking about the value of the pound against the euro, so it should have been pretty obvious what I was asking. If you read the first post I made it is totally obvious. But as always you have tried to be clever and it has backfired so you try to deflect. So I will simplify it for you even further. Was we in the EU the last tine the Pound was this low against the Euro; or is this the lowest the Pound has ever been against the Euro? Its not difficult, just answer the simple question. | |||
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"So last time it was this low we wasn't in the EU?
The lack of a response to this says it all
So you think it's good that the economic situation is the same as at the height of the rescession? The biggest recession in the last 100 years? That's what you consider a success?
Did I say that? You and your inability to comprehend again. I asked if last time it was this low we wasn't in the EU? So was we?
Your English is appalling. The Euro was created after the UK joined the EC (a predecessor to the EU), therefore it is impossible for a comparison of GBP and the Euro before we joined. It didn’t exist at the time.
My English is fine thanks. The last time the pound was this low was we in the EU? Can you understand the question.
No, your English is appalling. You shouldn't say "was we in the EU", you should say "were we in the EU"
The pound is not "high" or "low" in isolation, you can only compare it to another currency and say is it high or low compared to currency XYZ. So which currency are you comparing it to? The OP is about comparing the pound to the Euro.
You really are hard work. The op was talking about the value of the pound against the euro, so it should have been pretty obvious what I was asking. If you read the first post I made it is totally obvious. But as always you have tried to be clever and it has backfired so you try to deflect. So I will simplify it for you even further. Was we in the EU the last tine the Pound was this low against the Euro; or is this the lowest the Pound has ever been against the Euro?
Its not difficult, just answer the simple question."It's impossible for the Euro to have been lower than the pound before we joined the EU (and predecessor organisations) because the Euro didn't exist then. The last time the pound was this low against the Euro was at the height of the recession in 2008. Hence my earlier post. It shows what an appalling state the UK economy is now in, that the pound is at such a low rate. That alone should show you what an abject failure Brexit is already. | |||
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