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Who are Fascists today?
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"Fascist is word used a lot in today's political climate. Who are Fascists today? What is their ideology, what do they stand for, what do they do?" Fascists have chosen to give themselves alternate names as the term "Fascist" hasn't been good for Pr since at least 1945. They stand for much the same things as they always have. | |||
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"The way I understand Fascism and fascist is an authoritarian totalitarian regime, the nationalisation of all industry and commerce, the shutting down of free speech headed normally by a dictatorial leader with racist tendencies. Recent Fascists regimes around the world displayed these traits and also headed nationalist parties.The IFP in Italy were the true Fascists, Mussolini was the master of this craft. Hitlers NSGWP had these traits in bucket loads too. Can we really call western leaders and followers Fascist it's a word along with Nazi that is too easily attached to people. I think it would be quite shocking and scary to actually be under a true Fascist regime. Western democracy is a great gift, the ability to have an opinion without fear of persecution, the ability to discuss and challenge ideas and opinion. No matter what we agree with or do not agree with. We all have a fundamental right to say what we think and feel. That's opinion. It doesn't matter if that person is far right or far left we all have a right to be heard. We have democracy, when your fed up with one lot you can vote for another lot. Wouldn't it be boring if it was the same time and time again!" Fascism doesn't tend to fully nationalise industry. Nazism has more tendencies that way, but it is quite distinct from Fascism. Actually, I think that fascism is on the rise, albeit calling itself other things for PR purposes "Alt-right" is a good example of this. I think you have confused what "freedom of speech" means. It means that the state does not punish people for expressing views (ie you can't be locked up for being of any political persuasion). It does not mean that if you express views that others find abhorrent, they must accept your view and not challenge it. It also does not affect the rights of others in society to shun you for your views (such as companies sacking known extremists). | |||
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"The way I understand Fascism and fascist is an authoritarian totalitarian regime, the nationalisation of all industry and commerce, the shutting down of free speech headed normally by a dictatorial leader with racist tendencies. Recent Fascists regimes around the world displayed these traits and also headed nationalist parties.The IFP in Italy were the true Fascists, Mussolini was the master of this craft. Hitlers NSGWP had these traits in bucket loads too. Can we really call western leaders and followers Fascist it's a word along with Nazi that is too easily attached to people. I think it would be quite shocking and scary to actually be under a true Fascist regime. Western democracy is a great gift, the ability to have an opinion without fear of persecution, the ability to discuss and challenge ideas and opinion. No matter what we agree with or do not agree with. We all have a fundamental right to say what we think and feel. That's opinion. It doesn't matter if that person is far right or far left we all have a right to be heard. We have democracy, when your fed up with one lot you can vote for another lot. Wouldn't it be boring if it was the same time and time again! Fascism doesn't tend to fully nationalise industry. Nazism has more tendencies that way, but it is quite distinct from Fascism. Actually, I think that fascism is on the rise, albeit calling itself other things for PR purposes "Alt-right" is a good example of this. I think you have confused what "freedom of speech" means. It means that the state does not punish people for expressing views (ie you can't be locked up for being of any political persuasion). It does not mean that if you express views that others find abhorrent, they must accept your view and not challenge it. It also does not affect the rights of others in society to shun you for your views (such as companies sacking known extremists). " The US justice department is requesting the IP address of 1.3 million anti trump supporters.This reminds me of fascist sates of the past. | |||
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"I would imagine that governments around the world can request Internet information on pretty much anyone. If your a law abiding citizen their is nothing to fear. We live in an Orwellian world now anyway, you can't fart without someone knowing on the other side of the world. Look up at the sky and smile your probably on candid camera!" Should presidents request the names and addresses of those who voted against.I think not.Its not for national security. | |||
"If I were to name groups I would say any group which operates under the banner of the alt-right/far right, and ironically any group operating under the arm of ANTIFA are fascist. Both have ideologies which effectively seek to indoctrinate society into their world view, and both operate with a strict code of in-group 'no-think' which they believe should be expanded into wider society." the issue i have with that analogy is that its a cause and effect with the extreme far right and those who oppose them by counter demonstrating.. and yes it can be a chicken and egg thing.. respect that one can't take away the vile views that some of them have and nor would i wish to tell them what they think but when such a demonstration takes place there will and some would say rightly an opposition.. it has become a smoke screen or a way of trying to legitimise such extreme views that when they are opposed then their supporters say 'look at them', stopping me marching with my swastika.. would agree there are some on all sides and not of any side for whom 'no think' is some sort of acceptable position.. | |||
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"If I were to name groups I would say any group which operates under the banner of the alt-right/far right, and ironically any group operating under the arm of ANTIFA are fascist. Both have ideologies which effectively seek to indoctrinate society into their world view, and both operate with a strict code of in-group 'no-think' which they believe should be expanded into wider society." The "groupthink" of "we don't like Fascists"? Oooooookay then. | |||
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"I'm very glad that 'antifa' got thrown into the mix. Nice uniform! Cover your face, Black/Red is that anarchic communism? Great tactics, smash it up! Smash up the very system that protects, nurtures and feeds you guys and gals! Lots of girls too, with a lot of anger! Disruption, disrupt people who just want to go about their daily lives. " .  | |||
"I'm very glad that 'antifa' got thrown into the mix. Nice uniform! Cover your face, Black/Red is that anarchic communism? Great tactics, smash it up! Smash up the very system that protects, nurtures and feeds you guys and gals! Lots of girls too, with a lot of anger! Disruption, disrupt people who just want to go about their daily lives. " Like Nazis who want to hold a rally whilst armed you mean? Those people? | |||
"If I were to name groups I would say any group which operates under the banner of the alt-right/far right, and ironically any group operating under the arm of ANTIFA are fascist. Both have ideologies which effectively seek to indoctrinate society into their world view, and both operate with a strict code of in-group 'no-think' which they believe should be expanded into wider society. The "groupthink" of "we don't like Fascists"? Oooooookay then. " I'm fine with that 'groupthink' just don't go round throwing punches - unless it is in complete self defence. Maybe don't smash private properties. Especially not small chain and independent businesses - they are hardly the bad guys right? Also, have you tried to debate with them? I'm pretty left leaning, but unless you adhere to Marxism or communism you seem to be labelled right wing or racist from them. They are just as Orwellian as the far right. | |||
"If I were to name groups I would say any group which operates under the banner of the alt-right/far right, and ironically any group operating under the arm of ANTIFA are fascist. Both have ideologies which effectively seek to indoctrinate society into their world view, and both operate with a strict code of in-group 'no-think' which they believe should be expanded into wider society. The "groupthink" of "we don't like Fascists"? Oooooookay then. I'm fine with that 'groupthink' just don't go round throwing punches - unless it is in complete self defence. Maybe don't smash private properties. Especially not small chain and independent businesses - they are hardly the bad guys right? Also, have you tried to debate with them? I'm pretty left leaning, but unless you adhere to Marxism or communism you seem to be labelled right wing or racist from them. They are just as Orwellian as the far right." I can't say that I ever feel that punching Nazis is wrong, personally. | |||
"If I were to name groups I would say any group which operates under the banner of the alt-right/far right, and ironically any group operating under the arm of ANTIFA are fascist. Both have ideologies which effectively seek to indoctrinate society into their world view, and both operate with a strict code of in-group 'no-think' which they believe should be expanded into wider society. The "groupthink" of "we don't like Fascists"? Oooooookay then. I'm fine with that 'groupthink' just don't go round throwing punches - unless it is in complete self defence. Maybe don't smash private properties. Especially not small chain and independent businesses - they are hardly the bad guys right? Also, have you tried to debate with them? I'm pretty left leaning, but unless you adhere to Marxism or communism you seem to be labelled right wing or racist from them. They are just as Orwellian as the far right. I can't say that I ever feel that punching Nazis is wrong, personally. " Totally agree,the way fascism has always been beaten is by smashing it whenever it rears it's ugly head | |||
"If I were to name groups I would say any group which operates under the banner of the alt-right/far right, and ironically any group operating under the arm of ANTIFA are fascist. Both have ideologies which effectively seek to indoctrinate society into their world view, and both operate with a strict code of in-group 'no-think' which they believe should be expanded into wider society. The "groupthink" of "we don't like Fascists"? Oooooookay then. I'm fine with that 'groupthink' just don't go round throwing punches - unless it is in complete self defence. Maybe don't smash private properties. Especially not small chain and independent businesses - they are hardly the bad guys right? Also, have you tried to debate with them? I'm pretty left leaning, but unless you adhere to Marxism or communism you seem to be labelled right wing or racist from them. They are just as Orwellian as the far right. I can't say that I ever feel that punching Nazis is wrong, personally. Totally agree,the way fascism has always been beaten is by smashing it whenever it rears it's ugly head "Yep a fist or elbow in the face of fascism delivers the right message.  | |||
"If I were to name groups I would say any group which operates under the banner of the alt-right/far right, and ironically any group operating under the arm of ANTIFA are fascist. Both have ideologies which effectively seek to indoctrinate society into their world view, and both operate with a strict code of in-group 'no-think' which they believe should be expanded into wider society. The "groupthink" of "we don't like Fascists"? Oooooookay then. I'm fine with that 'groupthink' just don't go round throwing punches - unless it is in complete self defence. Maybe don't smash private properties. Especially not small chain and independent businesses - they are hardly the bad guys right? Also, have you tried to debate with them? I'm pretty left leaning, but unless you adhere to Marxism or communism you seem to be labelled right wing or racist from them. They are just as Orwellian as the far right. I can't say that I ever feel that punching Nazis is wrong, personally. " This is coming from someone whose great grandmother watched her first husband and son executed during the german occupation of Norway. So anyway if they are actually physically threatening you or another person, or actually attacking you - then go for it, punch them, I would. Quite frankly though,don't be the first to throw the punch, you'll only make them martyrs to anyone who is a bit anit-PC culture, or any normal person who is scared about people taking resources from their welfare state, or anyone worried about foreign labour taking their potential jobs. The rise of the alt-right has come from a fear of Islamist terrorism and people who feel like they have lost control over their value in the job market, peope who cannot afford to get back to college or school. Just like the bulk of fresh support for ANTIFA does not come from communists, but rather people who are scared of corporations gaining more and more power over governments. At the core of both ideologies are two failed ideas, both have a small gathering of die hard supporters who react to those on the other political extreme. At the end of the day though, they are mainly growing because in the West people are still feeling the effects of the 2007/8 crash, and are scared of migrants who are moving due to environmental issues, labour changes, and civil unrest The longer these issues remain present, the more likely people are to start seeing the two extremes sympathetically. | |||
"If I were to name groups I would say any group which operates under the banner of the alt-right/far right, and ironically any group operating under the arm of ANTIFA are fascist. Both have ideologies which effectively seek to indoctrinate society into their world view, and both operate with a strict code of in-group 'no-think' which they believe should be expanded into wider society. The "groupthink" of "we don't like Fascists"? Oooooookay then. I'm fine with that 'groupthink' just don't go round throwing punches - unless it is in complete self defence. Maybe don't smash private properties. Especially not small chain and independent businesses - they are hardly the bad guys right? Also, have you tried to debate with them? I'm pretty left leaning, but unless you adhere to Marxism or communism you seem to be labelled right wing or racist from them. They are just as Orwellian as the far right. I can't say that I ever feel that punching Nazis is wrong, personally. This is coming from someone whose great grandmother watched her first husband and son executed during the german occupation of Norway. So anyway if they are actually physically threatening you or another person, or actually attacking you - then go for it, punch them, I would. Quite frankly though,don't be the first to throw the punch, you'll only make them martyrs to anyone who is a bit anit-PC culture, or any normal person who is scared about people taking resources from their welfare state, or anyone worried about foreign labour taking their potential jobs. The rise of the alt-right has come from a fear of Islamist terrorism and people who feel like they have lost control over their value in the job market, peope who cannot afford to get back to college or school. Just like the bulk of fresh support for ANTIFA does not come from communists, but rather people who are scared of corporations gaining more and more power over governments. At the core of both ideologies are two failed ideas, both have a small gathering of die hard supporters who react to those on the other political extreme. At the end of the day though, they are mainly growing because in the West people are still feeling the effects of the 2007/8 crash, and are scared of migrants who are moving due to environmental issues, labour changes, and civil unrest The longer these issues remain present, the more likely people are to start seeing the two extremes sympathetically." Maybe then ask your Grandmother if you can and shes still alive what she thinks of fascists/nazi's  | |||
"If I were to name groups I would say any group which operates under the banner of the alt-right/far right, and ironically any group operating under the arm of ANTIFA are fascist. Both have ideologies which effectively seek to indoctrinate society into their world view, and both operate with a strict code of in-group 'no-think' which they believe should be expanded into wider society. The "groupthink" of "we don't like Fascists"? Oooooookay then. I'm fine with that 'groupthink' just don't go round throwing punches - unless it is in complete self defence. Maybe don't smash private properties. Especially not small chain and independent businesses - they are hardly the bad guys right? Also, have you tried to debate with them? I'm pretty left leaning, but unless you adhere to Marxism or communism you seem to be labelled right wing or racist from them. They are just as Orwellian as the far right. I can't say that I ever feel that punching Nazis is wrong, personally. Totally agree,the way fascism has always been beaten is by smashing it whenever it rears it's ugly head Yep a fist or elbow in the face of fascism delivers the right message. "HULK SMASH! Simple is as simple does and simple solutions for simple people.  | |||
"If I were to name groups I would say any group which operates under the banner of the alt-right/far right, and ironically any group operating under the arm of ANTIFA are fascist. Both have ideologies which effectively seek to indoctrinate society into their world view, and both operate with a strict code of in-group 'no-think' which they believe should be expanded into wider society. The "groupthink" of "we don't like Fascists"? Oooooookay then. I'm fine with that 'groupthink' just don't go round throwing punches - unless it is in complete self defence. Maybe don't smash private properties. Especially not small chain and independent businesses - they are hardly the bad guys right? Also, have you tried to debate with them? I'm pretty left leaning, but unless you adhere to Marxism or communism you seem to be labelled right wing or racist from them. They are just as Orwellian as the far right. I can't say that I ever feel that punching Nazis is wrong, personally. Totally agree,the way fascism has always been beaten is by smashing it whenever it rears it's ugly head Yep a fist or elbow in the face of fascism delivers the right message.
HULK SMASH! Simple is as simple does and simple solutions for simple people. "Says the politics forum resident 5 year old. | |||
"If I were to name groups I would say any group which operates under the banner of the alt-right/far right, and ironically any group operating under the arm of ANTIFA are fascist. Both have ideologies which effectively seek to indoctrinate society into their world view, and both operate with a strict code of in-group 'no-think' which they believe should be expanded into wider society. The "groupthink" of "we don't like Fascists"? Oooooookay then. I'm fine with that 'groupthink' just don't go round throwing punches - unless it is in complete self defence. Maybe don't smash private properties. Especially not small chain and independent businesses - they are hardly the bad guys right? Also, have you tried to debate with them? I'm pretty left leaning, but unless you adhere to Marxism or communism you seem to be labelled right wing or racist from them. They are just as Orwellian as the far right. I can't say that I ever feel that punching Nazis is wrong, personally. Totally agree,the way fascism has always been beaten is by smashing it whenever it rears it's ugly head Yep a fist or elbow in the face of fascism delivers the right message.
HULK SMASH! Simple is as simple does and simple solutions for simple people.
Says the politics forum resident 5 year old."I'm not the one talking about going around punching or elbowing people in the face in this thread. | |||
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"Why do threads soon degenerate into name calling? We're not all the same and folk have a right to state their point no matter how out there it may seem. Politics is an emotive subject. We should all respect what each other says whether you like it or not. Meanwhile back at the Ranch! Antifa, it has been suggested now that this organisation are Alt Left? In my opinion they display fascist tendencies too. I wonder if they are tolerant towards say liberal views? I reckon antifa members would steam into you too because you don't fit with their ideology? You can not reason with these people, they are wired into mayhem, debate is not their strongpoint, disruption is. They are tooled up most of the time, check their backpacks out, most carry nifty hammers, bottles, bangers and the mace sprays. They are organised and funded, but by whom? " I respect people who can make a reasoned debate, regardless of their views. The others I just troll. | |||
"Why do threads soon degenerate into name calling? We're not all the same and folk have a right to state their point no matter how out there it may seem. Politics is an emotive subject. We should all respect what each other says whether you like it or not. Meanwhile back at the Ranch! Antifa, it has been suggested now that this organisation are Alt Left? In my opinion they display fascist tendencies too. I wonder if they are tolerant towards say liberal views? I reckon antifa members would steam into you too because you don't fit with their ideology? You can not reason with these people, they are wired into mayhem, debate is not their strongpoint, disruption is. They are tooled up most of the time, check their backpacks out, most carry nifty hammers, bottles, bangers and the mace sprays. They are organised and funded, but by whom? " There can be no dialogue, no reasoning with fascists. They must never be given a platform. History shows us where liberal approaches to fascism end. | |||
"Antifa, it has been suggested now that this organisation are Alt Left? In my opinion they display fascist tendencies too. I wonder if they are tolerant towards say liberal views? I reckon antifa members would steam into you too because you don't fit with their ideology? You can not reason with these people, they are wired into mayhem, debate is not their strongpoint, disruption is. They are tooled up most of the time, check their backpacks out, most carry nifty hammers, bottles, bangers and the mace sprays. They are organised and funded, but by whom? " It's basically a loose affiliation of local groups, rather than one big organisation. IDK where they get their money from, but it's seemingly crowdfunding. It's nothing like Unite Against Fascism, who they tend to be very critical of. Most of those things you mentioned aren't expensive or difficult to make at home. I wonder, if someone came for you with a tiki torch, your instinct would be to debate with them? Rather than speculate, the best way to find out what they believe is to read their materials that are widely published on the internet. | |||
"Why do threads soon degenerate into name calling? We're not all the same and folk have a right to state their point no matter how out there it may seem. Politics is an emotive subject. We should all respect what each other says whether you like it or not. Meanwhile back at the Ranch! Antifa, it has been suggested now that this organisation are Alt Left? In my opinion they display fascist tendencies too. I wonder if they are tolerant towards say liberal views? I reckon antifa members would steam into you too because you don't fit with their ideology? You can not reason with these people, they are wired into mayhem, debate is not their strongpoint, disruption is. They are tooled up most of the time, check their backpacks out, most carry nifty hammers, bottles, bangers and the mace sprays. They are organised and funded, but by whom? " "antifa" is not a real organization in any official sense. Unlike, say, the Proud Boys or the Oathkeepers or the KKK, you cannot go and "join" antifa. Historically, there have been small "chapters" here and there, but like all attempts to coordinate the radical left, it is nowadays completely disorganized. Antifa is the new boogeyman word because it makes the left sound like a scary, roving street gang, but the reality is that antifa is just like Occupy Wall Street: whichever random assortment of lefties decided to show up that day. Wearing all black and bandanas has been a common protest tactic for ages among many different groups (see: Anonymous with the Guy Fawkes spin on the idea), it does not cohere into some nefarious new group. | |||
"Why do threads soon degenerate into name calling? We're not all the same and folk have a right to state their point no matter how out there it may seem. Politics is an emotive subject. We should all respect what each other says whether you like it or not. Meanwhile back at the Ranch! Antifa, it has been suggested now that this organisation are Alt Left? In my opinion they display fascist tendencies too. I wonder if they are tolerant towards say liberal views? I reckon antifa members would steam into you too because you don't fit with their ideology? You can not reason with these people, they are wired into mayhem, debate is not their strongpoint, disruption is. They are tooled up most of the time, check their backpacks out, most carry nifty hammers, bottles, bangers and the mace sprays. They are organised and funded, but by whom? " That you can tell what someone has in a backpack from the footage available is an amazing skill.. you could with such skill literally advise the police on just whom to stop and search.. in any case yes they did have some clubs etc and whilst not condoning that violence is acceptable, they were counter demonstrating against people who were wearing helmets, carrying shields and clubs with some armed with military grade weapons.. what would you suggest they wore or carried? bit like turning up to play football and leaving your shin pads in your bag, wont end well.. And your point about we are not all the same and folk have the right, well yes to a degree they do but when they are Nazi's then others equally have the right to counter their vile hatred.. look at history and how that panned out, your ignoring that one side are racist bigots with the same ideology as Hitler.. why? | |||
"If I were to name groups I would say any group which operates under the banner of the alt-right/far right, and ironically any group operating under the arm of ANTIFA are fascist. Both have ideologies which effectively seek to indoctrinate society into their world view, and both operate with a strict code of in-group 'no-think' which they believe should be expanded into wider society. The "groupthink" of "we don't like Fascists"? Oooooookay then. I'm fine with that 'groupthink' just don't go round throwing punches - unless it is in complete self defence. Maybe don't smash private properties. Especially not small chain and independent businesses - they are hardly the bad guys right? Also, have you tried to debate with them? I'm pretty left leaning, but unless you adhere to Marxism or communism you seem to be labelled right wing or racist from them. They are just as Orwellian as the far right. I can't say that I ever feel that punching Nazis is wrong, personally. This is coming from someone whose great grandmother watched her first husband and son executed during the german occupation of Norway. So anyway if they are actually physically threatening you or another person, or actually attacking you - then go for it, punch them, I would. Quite frankly though,don't be the first to throw the punch, you'll only make them martyrs to anyone who is a bit anit-PC culture, or any normal person who is scared about people taking resources from their welfare state, or anyone worried about foreign labour taking their potential jobs. The rise of the alt-right has come from a fear of Islamist terrorism and people who feel like they have lost control over their value in the job market, peope who cannot afford to get back to college or school. Just like the bulk of fresh support for ANTIFA does not come from communists, but rather people who are scared of corporations gaining more and more power over governments. At the core of both ideologies are two failed ideas, both have a small gathering of die hard supporters who react to those on the other political extreme. At the end of the day though, they are mainly growing because in the West people are still feeling the effects of the 2007/8 crash, and are scared of migrants who are moving due to environmental issues, labour changes, and civil unrest The longer these issues remain present, the more likely people are to start seeing the two extremes sympathetically. Maybe then ask your Grandmother if you can and shes still alive what she thinks of fascists/nazi's "Great grandmother and grandmother are both dead, but both operated on a basis of never preemptively attack someone or a group of people. by all means, prepare yourself to the best of your ability for when they attack, but never be the aggressor. Plus, a tiny group of white nationalists and supremacists, within a western population which is largely colour blind in regards to race, are not a threat currently. Maybe in america where firearms are more commonplace I'd be more concerned, but then you're in a situation of mutually assured destruction internally. | |||
"Why do threads soon degenerate into name calling? We're not all the same and folk have a right to state their point no matter how out there it may seem. Politics is an emotive subject. We should all respect what each other says whether you like it or not. Meanwhile back at the Ranch! Antifa, it has been suggested now that this organisation are Alt Left? In my opinion they display fascist tendencies too. I wonder if they are tolerant towards say liberal views? I reckon antifa members would steam into you too because you don't fit with their ideology? You can not reason with these people, they are wired into mayhem, debate is not their strongpoint, disruption is. They are tooled up most of the time, check their backpacks out, most carry nifty hammers, bottles, bangers and the mace sprays. They are organised and funded, but by whom? That you can tell what someone has in a backpack from the footage available is an amazing skill.. you could with such skill literally advise the police on just whom to stop and search.. in any case yes they did have some clubs etc and whilst not condoning that violence is acceptable, they were counter demonstrating against people who were wearing helmets, carrying shields and clubs with some armed with military grade weapons.. what would you suggest they wore or carried? bit like turning up to play football and leaving your shin pads in your bag, wont end well.. And your point about we are not all the same and folk have the right, well yes to a degree they do but when they are Nazi's then others equally have the right to counter their vile hatred.. look at history and how that panned out, your ignoring that one side are racist bigots with the same ideology as Hitler.. why? " Before I get lumped in with this my view is that both antifa and the white nationalist/supremacist groupings are both equally vile. Who would think you'd find out right communists and fascists in significant gatherings in this day and age. The fact is both sides bitch and moan about one another equally, and the counter protest against one another intensely so that more people pick sides. The way I see it you allow both groups freedom of speech and expression but prepare for the ensuing mayhem, or you label both groups as threats to civil society and discourse and keep them off the streets so they can go back to shout at one another over the internet. | |||
"Why do threads soon degenerate into name calling? We're not all the same and folk have a right to state their point no matter how out there it may seem. Politics is an emotive subject. We should all respect what each other says whether you like it or not. Meanwhile back at the Ranch! Antifa, it has been suggested now that this organisation are Alt Left? In my opinion they display fascist tendencies too. I wonder if they are tolerant towards say liberal views? I reckon antifa members would steam into you too because you don't fit with their ideology? You can not reason with these people, they are wired into mayhem, debate is not their strongpoint, disruption is. They are tooled up most of the time, check their backpacks out, most carry nifty hammers, bottles, bangers and the mace sprays. They are organised and funded, but by whom? That you can tell what someone has in a backpack from the footage available is an amazing skill.. you could with such skill literally advise the police on just whom to stop and search.. in any case yes they did have some clubs etc and whilst not condoning that violence is acceptable, they were counter demonstrating against people who were wearing helmets, carrying shields and clubs with some armed with military grade weapons.. what would you suggest they wore or carried? bit like turning up to play football and leaving your shin pads in your bag, wont end well.. And your point about we are not all the same and folk have the right, well yes to a degree they do but when they are Nazi's then others equally have the right to counter their vile hatred.. look at history and how that panned out, your ignoring that one side are racist bigots with the same ideology as Hitler.. why? Before I get lumped in with this my view is that both antifa and the white nationalist/supremacist groupings are both equally vile. Who would think you'd find out right communists and fascists in significant gatherings in this day and age. The fact is both sides bitch and moan about one another equally, and the counter protest against one another intensely so that more people pick sides. The way I see it you allow both groups freedom of speech and expression but prepare for the ensuing mayhem, or you label both groups as threats to civil society and discourse and keep them off the streets so they can go back to shout at one another over the internet." i think labelling them communists is stretching it a bit, they seem to be a mish mash of groups and as has been the way of it with a number of out and out idiots who always seem to turn up just for the chance to kick off.. i don't think you can go down the line of outright banning of such groups as the kkk and the nazi's as that would for them be a recognition as a group and validation for their 'cause'.. they are in some ways like the IS or paedophiles, in that they are or should be abhorred with no tolerance or acceptance for their views by civilised societies.. may seem a bit illiberal or not very leftie but they are a threat and should be dealt with.. | |||
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"Why do threads soon degenerate into name calling? We're not all the same and folk have a right to state their point no matter how out there it may seem. Politics is an emotive subject. We should all respect what each other says whether you like it or not. Meanwhile back at the Ranch! Antifa, it has been suggested now that this organisation are Alt Left? In my opinion they display fascist tendencies too. I wonder if they are tolerant towards say liberal views? I reckon antifa members would steam into you too because you don't fit with their ideology? You can not reason with these people, they are wired into mayhem, debate is not their strongpoint, disruption is. They are tooled up most of the time, check their backpacks out, most carry nifty hammers, bottles, bangers and the mace sprays. They are organised and funded, but by whom? That you can tell what someone has in a backpack from the footage available is an amazing skill.. you could with such skill literally advise the police on just whom to stop and search.. in any case yes they did have some clubs etc and whilst not condoning that violence is acceptable, they were counter demonstrating against people who were wearing helmets, carrying shields and clubs with some armed with military grade weapons.. what would you suggest they wore or carried? bit like turning up to play football and leaving your shin pads in your bag, wont end well.. And your point about we are not all the same and folk have the right, well yes to a degree they do but when they are Nazi's then others equally have the right to counter their vile hatred.. look at history and how that panned out, your ignoring that one side are racist bigots with the same ideology as Hitler.. why? interesting, well what do they have in the backpack, a copy of the beano and a sandwich box that mum packed! Good idea about the stop and search too, stop and search everyone at these rallies, just like the stop and search at an airport. The best bit about contributing here is that we do not really know each others pasts or presents, where we have been or what we have done. What we were involved in or what we are now. Life is such an enjoyable tapestry full of rich enlightening moments. For the record I neither support 'nazis', 'fascists' or 'extremists' of any kind, race, colour or creed. " | |||
"Well anyone running with antifa with a red/black diagonal flag is anarcho communist. I see a lot of these flags now in any antifa black bloc gatherings or should I say mayhem outings. I might add I'm not sympathetically aligned with any extreme group. I do not think The UK government is fascist either ( that was a quote on this thread) if they were you wouldn't be having your pussy hat rallies, and your left wing let's get rid of May marches! In fact you wouldn't be having anything apart from staring down the barrel of a gun! That's a point as well when you do have those marches what's all those hammer and sickles about? Do you really want communism? No you don't really! So Fascists No thanks, Antifa No thanks and communism No thanks. I will stick with the usual suspects and shit sandwiches. " | |||
"Why do threads soon degenerate into name calling? We're not all the same and folk have a right to state their point no matter how out there it may seem. Politics is an emotive subject. We should all respect what each other says whether you like it or not. Meanwhile back at the Ranch! Antifa, it has been suggested now that this organisation are Alt Left? In my opinion they display fascist tendencies too. I wonder if they are tolerant towards say liberal views? I reckon antifa members would steam into you too because you don't fit with their ideology? You can not reason with these people, they are wired into mayhem, debate is not their strongpoint, disruption is. They are tooled up most of the time, check their backpacks out, most carry nifty hammers, bottles, bangers and the mace sprays. They are organised and funded, but by whom? That you can tell what someone has in a backpack from the footage available is an amazing skill.. you could with such skill literally advise the police on just whom to stop and search.. in any case yes they did have some clubs etc and whilst not condoning that violence is acceptable, they were counter demonstrating against people who were wearing helmets, carrying shields and clubs with some armed with military grade weapons.. what would you suggest they wore or carried? bit like turning up to play football and leaving your shin pads in your bag, wont end well.. And your point about we are not all the same and folk have the right, well yes to a degree they do but when they are Nazi's then others equally have the right to counter their vile hatred.. look at history and how that panned out, your ignoring that one side are racist bigots with the same ideology as Hitler.. why? interesting, well what do they have in the backpack, a copy of the beano and a sandwich box that mum packed! Good idea about the stop and search too, stop and search everyone at these rallies, just like the stop and search at an airport. The best bit about contributing here is that we do not really know each others pasts or presents, where we have been or what we have done. What we were involved in or what we are now. Life is such an enjoyable tapestry full of rich enlightening moments. For the record I neither support 'nazis', 'fascists' or 'extremists' of any kind, race, colour or creed. " you still seem to have one sided vision, you have not answered the issue of what would you expect those who are going to counter protest the white supremacists some in military attire with automatic weapons, others wearing helmets, carrying shields and clubs to bring to that party..? address the cause not the reaction and then maybe you may be at least looking at what is out there in an objective manner.. your point about the antifa backpacks and going tooled up is a clear indicator that you are not attributing blame to both side for the violence when they confronted each other.. the act of terrorism by one of the white supremacists which you appear to have forgotten is beyond any justified response to what had occurred.. | |||
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"No to Fascists, no to antifa and no to communism, no to Cultural marxism. Stop and search very good idea. Separation at rallies good idea, you shout that side I shout this side. Unite the right rally had a permit, Antifa did not. Where are the police when you need them? Always will be some who want a fight both far right and far left because that's what extremists want, a fight. Both will never meet halfway and agree to disagree. My mum packed my backpack beano cheese and pickle sandwich with a tunnocks tea cake. Have a good day I have to cut grass. "Mmm tea cakes.. you also.. | |||
