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I told you so, an eu law expert says the truth.
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"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy?" Brexitors are not always right you know lol. | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy?Brexitors are not always right you know lol." Who is? | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy?Brexitors are not always right you know lol. Who is?" I said brexitors there. | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy?" Because Brexit won't happen? | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? Because Brexit won't happen?" That is right. | |||
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"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy?Brexitors are not always right you know lol. Who is?" Does experts saying it make YOU think ?  | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? Because Brexit won't happen?" ....As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld". | |||
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"Funny that, as everyone dealing with our Brexit trio, with the possible notable exception of President Trump, think the UK Politicians are the ones divorced from reality." I would agree with trump lol. | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy?" We're certainly seeing some massive downsides to Brexit though,arent we? The banking Brexodus has started with thousands in jobs and millions in tax revenue leaving the UK. Dublin alone has seen Barclays, Northern Trust, Citadel, Tobam, Alter Domus, FundRock, JP Morgan, Chaucer, Kabbage, Bank of America Merril Lynch, Willis Towers Watson, Bank of China, Beazley Re, Legal & General and Citigroup announce plans to move some of their operations already. And thats just one city, Frankfurt is expected to get the most in the end. Inflation has skyrocketed since the referendum. The pound has seen a severe devaluation. Consumer confidence and spending is way down. Manufacturing productivity has weakened. The number of cars made in the UK has dropped almost 14%. Overall the UK economy has gone from being one of the fastest growing in Europe and the G20 to the lowest in both. Investors responsible for tens of millions in FDI are now 4 times more likely to see the UK as a worse long term investment than before the referendum. And this is all happening before anything changes. You havent even lost the benefita of the EU yet and this is happening. | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? Because Brexit won't happen?....As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld"." Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71 In signs of an intensifying cabinet row over the issue, the Telegraph reported on Sunday that allies of the chancellor had accused Mr Fox of living in a “fantasy land” about the post-Brexit deal. An aide to Mr Hammond refused to comment on the tensions between ministers over the nature of the transition agreement. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71  | |||
"As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld"." I for one fully agree with you and Liam Fox. Anyone who thinks that brexit will not happen is dreaming... However I also believe that all the Eurosceptic brexiteers including Fox, boJo, Gove, Davis and and his brexit team as well as those who believe the above bunch of millionaire charlatans are going to lead us all to a post EU land of milk and honey are also deluded. | |||
"As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld". I for one fully agree with you and Liam Fox. Anyone who thinks that brexit will not happen is dreaming... However I also believe that all the Eurosceptic brexiteers including Fox, boJo, Gove, Davis and and his brexit team as well as those who believe the above bunch of millionaire charlatans are going to lead us all to a post EU land of milk and honey are also deluded." Well there are rumours that Boris might resign. I don't really see him as an ideologue, he could have gone either way on Leave/Remain, I think he may have tossed a coin for it. In that respect he is quite different to Fox and Davis. I think when the writing is on the wall, he will switch allegiances, I can't see him intentionally going down with the ship. He will try and live to fight another day. | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? We're certainly seeing some massive downsides to Brexit though,arent we? The banking Brexodus has started with thousands in jobs and millions in tax revenue leaving the UK. Dublin alone has seen Barclays, Northern Trust, Citadel, Tobam, Alter Domus, FundRock, JP Morgan, Chaucer, Kabbage, Bank of America Merril Lynch, Willis Towers Watson, Bank of China, Beazley Re, Legal & General and Citigroup announce plans to move some of their operations already. And thats just one city, Frankfurt is expected to get the most in the end. Inflation has skyrocketed since the referendum. The pound has seen a severe devaluation. Consumer confidence and spending is way down. Manufacturing productivity has weakened. The number of cars made in the UK has dropped almost 14%. Overall the UK economy has gone from being one of the fastest growing in Europe and the G20 to the lowest in both. Investors responsible for tens of millions in FDI are now 4 times more likely to see the UK as a worse long term investment than before the referendum. And this is all happening before anything changes. You havent even lost the benefita of the EU yet and this is happening." They are not massive downsides at all. Things like this are to be expected during such an event, the upsides will become apparent in the years to come. Which way did I vote? It's irrelevant now, the decision was made and constantly looking for downsides to everything when you have already lost an argument is rather pointless. | |||
"As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld". I for one fully agree with you and Liam Fox. Anyone who thinks that brexit will not happen is dreaming... " You FULLY agree. You seem certain? Why? The nearer it gets, the bigger the fiasco people will see it is going to be. The Irish problem is going to become acute. Many others will too. Brexit could have worked, albeit still not as good for us as being fully in the EU, but it would have needed to have been handled so differently and competently to how it has. In the end, as the deal is presented, no-one will be happy, there will be a vote of no confidence and an election will be called. At that election one or both political parties will have Remain on their Manifesto and that will lead to Article 50 being unilaterally withdrawn, to the relief of everyone including an electorate who will by then be about 2/3 in favour of NOT leaving the EU. The last You Gov poll (30th June) on if there was another EU referendum now had 46% voting to stay in the EU with 42% would still vote to leave. The trend shows that gap is likely to widen. And the young are roused now to vote and they have been working on the older generations too. | |||
"As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld". I for one fully agree with you and Liam Fox. Anyone who thinks that brexit will not happen is dreaming... You FULLY agree. You seem certain? Why? The nearer it gets, the bigger the fiasco people will see it is going to be. The Irish problem is going to become acute. Many others will too. Brexit could have worked, albeit still not as good for us as being fully in the EU, but it would have needed to have been handled so differently and competently to how it has. In the end, as the deal is presented, no-one will be happy, there will be a vote of no confidence and an election will be called. At that election one or both political parties will have Remain on their Manifesto and that will lead to Article 50 being unilaterally withdrawn, to the relief of everyone including an electorate who will by then be about 2/3 in favour of NOT leaving the EU. The last You Gov poll (30th June) on if there was another EU referendum now had 46% voting to stay in the EU with 42% would still vote to leave. The trend shows that gap is likely to widen. And the young are roused now to vote and they have been working on the older generations too. " I won't bother arguing with all that but why do you think the EU would allow us to withdraw Article 50/rejoin the EU? According to some people here the EU are going to benefit from the UK leaving. Aren't they? | |||
"As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld". I for one fully agree with you and Liam Fox. Anyone who thinks that brexit will not happen is dreaming... You FULLY agree. You seem certain? Why? The nearer it gets, the bigger the fiasco people will see it is going to be. The Irish problem is going to become acute. Many others will too. Brexit could have worked, albeit still not as good for us as being fully in the EU, but it would have needed to have been handled so differently and competently to how it has. In the end, as the deal is presented, no-one will be happy, there will be a vote of no confidence and an election will be called. At that election one or both political parties will have Remain on their Manifesto and that will lead to Article 50 being unilaterally withdrawn, to the relief of everyone including an electorate who will by then be about 2/3 in favour of NOT leaving the EU. The last You Gov poll (30th June) on if there was another EU referendum now had 46% voting to stay in the EU with 42% would still vote to leave. The trend shows that gap is likely to widen. And the young are roused now to vote and they have been working on the older generations too. " ...Then you woke up and found all your bed sheets were wringing wet. | |||
"As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld". I for one fully agree with you and Liam Fox. Anyone who thinks that brexit will not happen is dreaming... You FULLY agree. You seem certain? Why? The nearer it gets, the bigger the fiasco people will see it is going to be. The Irish problem is going to become acute. Many others will too. Brexit could have worked, albeit still not as good for us as being fully in the EU, but it would have needed to have been handled so differently and competently to how it has. In the end, as the deal is presented, no-one will be happy, there will be a vote of no confidence and an election will be called. At that election one or both political parties will have Remain on their Manifesto and that will lead to Article 50 being unilaterally withdrawn, to the relief of everyone including an electorate who will by then be about 2/3 in favour of NOT leaving the EU. The last You Gov poll (30th June) on if there was another EU referendum now had 46% voting to stay in the EU with 42% would still vote to leave. The trend shows that gap is likely to widen. And the young are roused now to vote and they have been working on the older generations too. I won't bother arguing with all that but why do you think the EU would allow us to withdraw Article 50/rejoin the EU? According to some people here the EU are going to benefit from the UK leaving. Aren't they?" Economically the individual countries will benefit but the EU isnt just about economics for most. The UK largely see's it in those terms though. The problem is that all the things the EU benefits from with the continued UK membership are off the table with Brexit. The EU is stronger as a political force with the UK and its a bigger market to negotiate with. The EU will also be able to present a unified front to challenges such as Russia. So for those reasons(particularly with the US in a fairly chaotic situation) the EU is stronger with the UK and thats to their benefit. | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? We're certainly seeing some massive downsides to Brexit though,arent we? The banking Brexodus has started with thousands in jobs and millions in tax revenue leaving the UK. Dublin alone has seen Barclays, Northern Trust, Citadel, Tobam, Alter Domus, FundRock, JP Morgan, Chaucer, Kabbage, Bank of America Merril Lynch, Willis Towers Watson, Bank of China, Beazley Re, Legal & General and Citigroup announce plans to move some of their operations already. And thats just one city, Frankfurt is expected to get the most in the end. Inflation has skyrocketed since the referendum. The pound has seen a severe devaluation. Consumer confidence and spending is way down. Manufacturing productivity has weakened. The number of cars made in the UK has dropped almost 14%. Overall the UK economy has gone from being one of the fastest growing in Europe and the G20 to the lowest in both. Investors responsible for tens of millions in FDI are now 4 times more likely to see the UK as a worse long term investment than before the referendum. And this is all happening before anything changes. You havent even lost the benefita of the EU yet and this is happening. They are not massive downsides at all. Things like this are to be expected during such an event, the upsides will become apparent in the years to come. Which way did I vote? It's irrelevant now, the decision was made and constantly looking for downsides to everything when you have already lost an argument is rather pointless. " They are quite clearly downsides. Its ridiculous to claim otherwise. A government with less tax revenue will mean either tax increases for the people or a cut in services. Would you feel safer if police, defence and health resources were even more stretched than they are? And less jobs might not matter to you, but for the people who lose them its a life changing event. Inflation going up since the referendum means that household budgets are under severe pressure in many home across the nation. Maybe youre fine but do you not consider that a downside for those affected? | |||
"As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld". I for one fully agree with you and Liam Fox. Anyone who thinks that brexit will not happen is dreaming... You FULLY agree. You seem certain? Why? The nearer it gets, the bigger the fiasco people will see it is going to be. The Irish problem is going to become acute. Many others will too. Brexit could have worked, albeit still not as good for us as being fully in the EU, but it would have needed to have been handled so differently and competently to how it has. In the end, as the deal is presented, no-one will be happy, there will be a vote of no confidence and an election will be called. At that election one or both political parties will have Remain on their Manifesto and that will lead to Article 50 being unilaterally withdrawn, to the relief of everyone including an electorate who will by then be about 2/3 in favour of NOT leaving the EU. The last You Gov poll (30th June) on if there was another EU referendum now had 46% voting to stay in the EU with 42% would still vote to leave. The trend shows that gap is likely to widen. And the young are roused now to vote and they have been working on the older generations too. I won't bother arguing with all that but why do you think the EU would allow us to withdraw Article 50/rejoin the EU? According to some people here the EU are going to benefit from the UK leaving. Aren't they? Economically the individual countries will benefit but the EU isnt just about economics for most. The UK largely see's it in those terms though. The problem is that all the things the EU benefits from with the continued UK membership are off the table with Brexit. The EU is stronger as a political force with the UK and its a bigger market to negotiate with. The EU will also be able to present a unified front to challenges such as Russia. So for those reasons(particularly with the US in a fairly chaotic situation) the EU is stronger with the UK and thats to their benefit." Well they'd better be nice to us then hadn't they so that they have our backing in trade and influence without charging us for the 'privilege'  | |||
" I won't bother arguing with all that but why do you think the EU would allow us to withdraw Article 50/rejoin the EU? According to some people here the EU are going to benefit from the UK leaving. Aren't they?" It will have to be ruled on by the European Court, but the likelihood is that they can't stop us if we want to withdraw our Article 50 notice. That is the opinion of the people who actually drafted the clause and where international agreements are concerned, if there is a question such as this, the intention behind the clause is key. If the people who drafted it say it is an available option then that will likely carry the day. So that is the legal side. As for the politics, the EU are NOT going to benefit from us leaving, not overall. The EU have repeatedly said they don't want us to leave because it will hurt them. They are better off with us in. The point they repeatedly make is that the UK will be worse off and the EU will be worse off. However the UK will be far more adversely affected than the EU. It is lose lose. So to sum up The EU will allow us to withdraw us Article 50 because 1. They can't stop us 2. They don't want to stop us That is different from allowing us to rejoin once we have left. That they can stop. As for 'according to some people here the EU are going to benefit from the UK leaving' I haven't seen anyone say this as an overall statement, so I think either you don't understand the situation or they don't. Overall the EU won't be better off without us as part of it, but that is not to say that certain countries or industries will not benefit, to our detriment. | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? We're certainly seeing some massive downsides to Brexit though,arent we? The banking Brexodus has started with thousands in jobs and millions in tax revenue leaving the UK. Dublin alone has seen Barclays, Northern Trust, Citadel, Tobam, Alter Domus, FundRock, JP Morgan, Chaucer, Kabbage, Bank of America Merril Lynch, Willis Towers Watson, Bank of China, Beazley Re, Legal & General and Citigroup announce plans to move some of their operations already. And thats just one city, Frankfurt is expected to get the most in the end. Inflation has skyrocketed since the referendum. The pound has seen a severe devaluation. Consumer confidence and spending is way down. Manufacturing productivity has weakened. The number of cars made in the UK has dropped almost 14%. Overall the UK economy has gone from being one of the fastest growing in Europe and the G20 to the lowest in both. Investors responsible for tens of millions in FDI are now 4 times more likely to see the UK as a worse long term investment than before the referendum. And this is all happening before anything changes. You havent even lost the benefita of the EU yet and this is happening. They are not massive downsides at all. Things like this are to be expected during such an event, the upsides will become apparent in the years to come. Which way did I vote? It's irrelevant now, the decision was made and constantly looking for downsides to everything when you have already lost an argument is rather pointless. They are quite clearly downsides. Its ridiculous to claim otherwise. A government with less tax revenue will mean either tax increases for the people or a cut in services. Would you feel safer if police, defence and health resources were even more stretched than they are? And less jobs might not matter to you, but for the people who lose them its a life changing event. Inflation going up since the referendum means that household budgets are under severe pressure in many home across the nation. Maybe youre fine but do you not consider that a downside for those affected?" Not massive as you describe it no. | |||
" I won't bother arguing with all that but why do you think the EU would allow us to withdraw Article 50/rejoin the EU? According to some people here the EU are going to benefit from the UK leaving. Aren't they? It will have to be ruled on by the European Court, but the likelihood is that they can't stop us if we want to withdraw our Article 50 notice. That is the opinion of the people who actually drafted the clause and where international agreements are concerned, if there is a question such as this, the intention behind the clause is key. If the people who drafted it say it is an available option then that will likely carry the day. So that is the legal side. As for the politics, the EU are NOT going to benefit from us leaving, not overall. The EU have repeatedly said they don't want us to leave because it will hurt them. They are better off with us in. The point they repeatedly make is that the UK will be worse off and the EU will be worse off. However the UK will be far more adversely affected than the EU. It is lose lose. So to sum up The EU will allow us to withdraw us Article 50 because 1. They can't stop us 2. They don't want to stop us That is different from allowing us to rejoin once we have left. That they can stop. As for 'according to some people here the EU are going to benefit from the UK leaving' I haven't seen anyone say this as an overall statement, so I think either you don't understand the situation or they don't. Overall the EU won't be better off without us as part of it, but that is not to say that certain countries or industries will not benefit, to our detriment. " The only possible losers out of Brexit are the EU but if they play it sensibly then they don't need to lose as much as they could do | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? We're certainly seeing some massive downsides to Brexit though,arent we? The banking Brexodus has started with thousands in jobs and millions in tax revenue leaving the UK. Dublin alone has seen Barclays, Northern Trust, Citadel, Tobam, Alter Domus, FundRock, JP Morgan, Chaucer, Kabbage, Bank of America Merril Lynch, Willis Towers Watson, Bank of China, Beazley Re, Legal & General and Citigroup announce plans to move some of their operations already. And thats just one city, Frankfurt is expected to get the most in the end. Inflation has skyrocketed since the referendum. The pound has seen a severe devaluation. Consumer confidence and spending is way down. Manufacturing productivity has weakened. The number of cars made in the UK has dropped almost 14%. Overall the UK economy has gone from being one of the fastest growing in Europe and the G20 to the lowest in both. Investors responsible for tens of millions in FDI are now 4 times more likely to see the UK as a worse long term investment than before the referendum. And this is all happening before anything changes. You havent even lost the benefita of the EU yet and this is happening. They are not massive downsides at all. Things like this are to be expected during such an event, the upsides will become apparent in the years to come. Which way did I vote? It's irrelevant now, the decision was made and constantly looking for downsides to everything when you have already lost an argument is rather pointless. They are quite clearly downsides. Its ridiculous to claim otherwise. A government with less tax revenue will mean either tax increases for the people or a cut in services. Would you feel safer if police, defence and health resources were even more stretched than they are? And less jobs might not matter to you, but for the people who lose them its a life changing event. Inflation going up since the referendum means that household budgets are under severe pressure in many home across the nation. Maybe youre fine but do you not consider that a downside for those affected?" A recent yougov poll says that more than 50% of Leave voters aged over 65 think Brexit is worth a family member losing their job for.  | |||
" Well they'd better be nice to us then hadn't they so that they have our backing in trade and influence without charging us for the 'privilege' "Ok you dont get it. The UK wont be backing us on trade or influence once they leave. Its not something to be negotiated on. Its not even something May can offer. If you dont understand the fundamentals of the debate then you shoukd read up on it before you take part. That way you wont waste your time posting things that dont make any sense. | |||
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"The ONLY POSSIBLE losers are the EU? Yesterday the PM's spokesman said 'Free movement of EU citizens to Britain will end when the country leaves the EU in March 2019' What that also means is that British citizens' right to live and work freely in 27 other nations will be forcefully removed in March 2019. So just on that, many UK citizens are losers. " That is right many will be forced to leave the eu. I call it the karma effect. | |||
" Well they'd better be nice to us then hadn't they so that they have our backing in trade and influence without charging us for the 'privilege'
Ok you dont get it. The UK wont be backing us on trade or influence once they leave. Its not something to be negotiated on. Its not even something May can offer.
If you dont understand the fundamentals of the debate then you shoukd read up on it before you take part. That way you wont waste your time posting things that dont make any sense."I understand a lot more than yourself. Your posts are both hysterical and hilarious. Where do you get your information from? | |||
"The ONLY POSSIBLE losers are the EU? Yesterday the PM's spokesman said 'Free movement of EU citizens to Britain will end when the country leaves the EU in March 2019' What that also means is that British citizens' right to live and work freely in 27 other nations will be forcefully removed in March 2019. So just on that, many UK citizens are losers. " What does live and work freely actually mean? | |||
" I understand a lot more than yourself. Your posts are both hysterical and hilarious. Where do you get your information from? " Where do you? | |||
"As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld". I for one fully agree with you and Liam Fox. Anyone who thinks that brexit will not happen is dreaming... You FULLY agree. You seem certain? Why? The nearer it gets, the bigger the fiasco people will see it is going to be. The Irish problem is going to become acute. Many others will too. Brexit could have worked, albeit still not as good for us as being fully in the EU, but it would have needed to have been handled so differently and competently to how it has. In the end, as the deal is presented, no-one will be happy, there will be a vote of no confidence and an election will be called. At that election one or both political parties will have Remain on their Manifesto and that will lead to Article 50 being unilaterally withdrawn, to the relief of everyone including an electorate who will by then be about 2/3 in favour of NOT leaving the EU. The last You Gov poll (30th June) on if there was another EU referendum now had 46% voting to stay in the EU with 42% would still vote to leave. The trend shows that gap is likely to widen. And the young are roused now to vote and they have been working on the older generations too. I won't bother arguing with all that but why do you think the EU would allow us to withdraw Article 50/rejoin the EU? According to some people here the EU are going to benefit from the UK leaving. Aren't they?" Not sure which bit of If we leave it will cost all sides a vast amount of money I'd suggest a currently unknowable amount If we leave the eu will lose and thus to minimise it's loss it will ensure it has an upper hand trading agreement with the UK ? If the UK came to its senses it would save all sides a massive untenable un winnable negotiation, however there will be a point where so much money is spent just in case , that reversal itself would be futile
Erm ? | |||
" I won't bother arguing with all that but why do you think the EU would allow us to withdraw Article 50/rejoin the EU? According to some people here the EU are going to benefit from the UK leaving. Aren't they? It will have to be ruled on by the European Court, but the likelihood is that they can't stop us if we want to withdraw our Article 50 notice. That is the opinion of the people who actually drafted the clause and where international agreements are concerned, if there is a question such as this, the intention behind the clause is key. If the people who drafted it say it is an available option then that will likely carry the day. So that is the legal side. As for the politics, the EU are NOT going to benefit from us leaving, not overall. The EU have repeatedly said they don't want us to leave because it will hurt them. They are better off with us in. The point they repeatedly make is that the UK will be worse off and the EU will be worse off. However the UK will be far more adversely affected than the EU. It is lose lose. So to sum up The EU will allow us to withdraw us Article 50 because 1. They can't stop us 2. They don't want to stop us That is different from allowing us to rejoin once we have left. That they can stop. As for 'according to some people here the EU are going to benefit from the UK leaving' I haven't seen anyone say this as an overall statement, so I think either you don't understand the situation or they don't. Overall the EU won't be better off without us as part of it, but that is not to say that certain countries or industries will not benefit, to our detriment. " I agree with nearly everything you say, but there is one insurmountable hurdle that brings your logic crashing down... For the EU to allow us to withdraw our Article 50 succession not only must the council of ministers, the european commission and the ECJ approve but also the European parliament must approve and these approvals must be unanimous. The problem for us and the EU is Belgium. Belgium has a system where by on all major issues (and this would be one) the constitution of Belgium requires a referendum and all provinces must vote yes in order for Belgium to vote yes. Unfortunately there is a long running constitutional recognition dispute in Belgium and one province is controlled by those seeking recognition along with the French, Dutch and German speaking groups, and they have been blocking every important EU issue that has had to be put to referendum in Belgium for years. they will not allow us withdraw our Article 50 notification. We are out come 29/3/19. May, Fox and the rest are trying to make a virtue of an irreversible fait au complet. | |||
" Well they'd better be nice to us then hadn't they so that they have our backing in trade and influence without charging us for the 'privilege'
Ok you dont get it. The UK wont be backing us on trade or influence once they leave. Its not something to be negotiated on. Its not even something May can offer.
If you dont understand the fundamentals of the debate then you shoukd read up on it before you take part. That way you wont waste your time posting things that dont make any sense.
I understand a lot more than yourself. Your posts are both hysterical and hilarious. Where do you get your information from? "If you understand so much why are you talking about negotiating the UK backing EU influence as part of Brexit? Because thats nonsense. Its not a thing. At all. So, since you seem to think you know so much, why dont you explain that to us. Or you can explain why losing jobs, companies and tax revenue arent downsides to Brexit. | |||
| |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? We're certainly seeing some massive downsides to Brexit though,arent we? The banking Brexodus has started with thousands in jobs and millions in tax revenue leaving the UK. Dublin alone has seen Barclays, Northern Trust, Citadel, Tobam, Alter Domus, FundRock, JP Morgan, Chaucer, Kabbage, Bank of America Merril Lynch, Willis Towers Watson, Bank of China, Beazley Re, Legal & General and Citigroup announce plans to move some of their operations already. And thats just one city, Frankfurt is expected to get the most in the end. Inflation has skyrocketed since the referendum. The pound has seen a severe devaluation. Consumer confidence and spending is way down. Manufacturing productivity has weakened. The number of cars made in the UK has dropped almost 14%. Overall the UK economy has gone from being one of the fastest growing in Europe and the G20 to the lowest in both. Investors responsible for tens of millions in FDI are now 4 times more likely to see the UK as a worse long term investment than before the referendum. And this is all happening before anything changes. You havent even lost the benefita of the EU yet and this is happening. They are not massive downsides at all. Things like this are to be expected during such an event, the upsides will become apparent in the years to come. Which way did I vote? It's irrelevant now, the decision was made and constantly looking for downsides to everything when you have already lost an argument is rather pointless. They are quite clearly downsides. Its ridiculous to claim otherwise. A government with less tax revenue will mean either tax increases for the people or a cut in services. Would you feel safer if police, defence and health resources were even more stretched than they are? And less jobs might not matter to you, but for the people who lose them its a life changing event. Inflation going up since the referendum means that household budgets are under severe pressure in many home across the nation. Maybe youre fine but do you not consider that a downside for those affected? A recent yougov poll says that more than 50% of Leave voters aged over 65 think Brexit is worth a family member losing their job for. "Yes. I heard that poll on the radio today. | |||
" I won't bother arguing with all that but why do you think the EU would allow us to withdraw Article 50/rejoin the EU? According to some people here the EU are going to benefit from the UK leaving. Aren't they? It will have to be ruled on by the European Court, but the likelihood is that they can't stop us if we want to withdraw our Article 50 notice. That is the opinion of the people who actually drafted the clause and where international agreements are concerned, if there is a question such as this, the intention behind the clause is key. If the people who drafted it say it is an available option then that will likely carry the day. So that is the legal side. As for the politics, the EU are NOT going to benefit from us leaving, not overall. The EU have repeatedly said they don't want us to leave because it will hurt them. They are better off with us in. The point they repeatedly make is that the UK will be worse off and the EU will be worse off. However the UK will be far more adversely affected than the EU. It is lose lose. So to sum up The EU will allow us to withdraw us Article 50 because 1. They can't stop us 2. They don't want to stop us That is different from allowing us to rejoin once we have left. That they can stop. As for 'according to some people here the EU are going to benefit from the UK leaving' I haven't seen anyone say this as an overall statement, so I think either you don't understand the situation or they don't. Overall the EU won't be better off without us as part of it, but that is not to say that certain countries or industries will not benefit, to our detriment. I agree with nearly everything you say, but there is one insurmountable hurdle that brings your logic crashing down... For the EU to allow us to withdraw our Article 50 succession not only must the council of ministers, the european commission and the ECJ approve but also the European parliament must approve and these approvals must be unanimous. The problem for us and the EU is Belgium. Belgium has a system where by on all major issues (and this would be one) the constitution of Belgium requires a referendum and all provinces must vote yes in order for Belgium to vote yes. Unfortunately there is a long running constitutional recognition dispute in Belgium and one province is controlled by those seeking recognition along with the French, Dutch and German speaking groups, and they have been blocking every important EU issue that has had to be put to referendum in Belgium for years. they will not allow us withdraw our Article 50 notification. We are out come 29/3/19. May, Fox and the rest are trying to make a virtue of an irreversible fait au complet. " No. Only the ECJ needs to make the decision. If it decides that a member state has the constitutional right to change its own decision to withdraw from the EU, as long as this is before the withdrawal is completed i.e. Within two years of giving notice then the Council or member states have no further say or influence. The law is the law. The ECJ is the independent arbiter of the law. The members must abide by its decisions. If they don't like it they can change the law and constitution in the future, but they are stuck with it now. At least, that is my understanding. I'd be interested to know if you disagree with the logic/interpretation. | |||
" I won't bother arguing with all that but why do you think the EU would allow us to withdraw Article 50/rejoin the EU? According to some people here the EU are going to benefit from the UK leaving. Aren't they? It will have to be ruled on by the European Court, but the likelihood is that they can't stop us if we want to withdraw our Article 50 notice. That is the opinion of the people who actually drafted the clause and where international agreements are concerned, if there is a question such as this, the intention behind the clause is key. If the people who drafted it say it is an available option then that will likely carry the day. So that is the legal side. As for the politics, the EU are NOT going to benefit from us leaving, not overall. The EU have repeatedly said they don't want us to leave because it will hurt them. They are better off with us in. The point they repeatedly make is that the UK will be worse off and the EU will be worse off. However the UK will be far more adversely affected than the EU. It is lose lose. So to sum up The EU will allow us to withdraw us Article 50 because 1. They can't stop us 2. They don't want to stop us That is different from allowing us to rejoin once we have left. That they can stop. As for 'according to some people here the EU are going to benefit from the UK leaving' I haven't seen anyone say this as an overall statement, so I think either you don't understand the situation or they don't. Overall the EU won't be better off without us as part of it, but that is not to say that certain countries or industries will not benefit, to our detriment. I agree with nearly everything you say, but there is one insurmountable hurdle that brings your logic crashing down... For the EU to allow us to withdraw our Article 50 succession not only must the council of ministers, the european commission and the ECJ approve but also the European parliament must approve and these approvals must be unanimous. The problem for us and the EU is Belgium. Belgium has a system where by on all major issues (and this would be one) the constitution of Belgium requires a referendum and all provinces must vote yes in order for Belgium to vote yes. Unfortunately there is a long running constitutional recognition dispute in Belgium and one province is controlled by those seeking recognition along with the French, Dutch and German speaking groups, and they have been blocking every important EU issue that has had to be put to referendum in Belgium for years. they will not allow us withdraw our Article 50 notification. We are out come 29/3/19. May, Fox and the rest are trying to make a virtue of an irreversible fait au complet. No. Only the ECJ needs to make the decision. If it decides that a member state has the constitutional right to change its own decision to withdraw from the EU, as long as this is before the withdrawal is completed i.e. Within two years of giving notice then the Council or member states have no further say or influence. The law is the law. The ECJ is the independent arbiter of the law. The members must abide by its decisions. If they don't like it they can change the law and constitution in the future, but they are stuck with it now. At least, that is my understanding. I'd be interested to know if you disagree with the logic/interpretation. " The guy who wrote it also thinks it's reversible. | |||
" I won't bother arguing with all that but why do you think the EU would allow us to withdraw Article 50/rejoin the EU? According to some people here the EU are going to benefit from the UK leaving. Aren't they? It will have to be ruled on by the European Court, but the likelihood is that they can't stop us if we want to withdraw our Article 50 notice. That is the opinion of the people who actually drafted the clause and where international agreements are concerned, if there is a question such as this, the intention behind the clause is key. If the people who drafted it say it is an available option then that will likely carry the day. So that is the legal side. As for the politics, the EU are NOT going to benefit from us leaving, not overall. The EU have repeatedly said they don't want us to leave because it will hurt them. They are better off with us in. The point they repeatedly make is that the UK will be worse off and the EU will be worse off. However the UK will be far more adversely affected than the EU. It is lose lose. So to sum up The EU will allow us to withdraw us Article 50 because 1. They can't stop us 2. They don't want to stop us That is different from allowing us to rejoin once we have left. That they can stop. As for 'according to some people here the EU are going to benefit from the UK leaving' I haven't seen anyone say this as an overall statement, so I think either you don't understand the situation or they don't. Overall the EU won't be better off without us as part of it, but that is not to say that certain countries or industries will not benefit, to our detriment. I agree with nearly everything you say, but there is one insurmountable hurdle that brings your logic crashing down... For the EU to allow us to withdraw our Article 50 succession not only must the council of ministers, the european commission and the ECJ approve but also the European parliament must approve and these approvals must be unanimous. The problem for us and the EU is Belgium. Belgium has a system where by on all major issues (and this would be one) the constitution of Belgium requires a referendum and all provinces must vote yes in order for Belgium to vote yes. Unfortunately there is a long running constitutional recognition dispute in Belgium and one province is controlled by those seeking recognition along with the French, Dutch and German speaking groups, and they have been blocking every important EU issue that has had to be put to referendum in Belgium for years. they will not allow us withdraw our Article 50 notification. We are out come 29/3/19. May, Fox and the rest are trying to make a virtue of an irreversible fait au complet. " This isnt actually true. Belgium has only ever held 1 referendum in its history and that was in 1950 regarding whether or not King Leopold should regain his constitutional powers. In a mirror of Brexit it was a stupid referendum to hold as it divided the country hugely and Belgium has still not recovered. The federal government does however need the regional parliaments to approve many things. Theres also no region of Belgium that votes down all EU legislation. The region, Walloon, did prevent CETA from being ratified initially but once it won some concessions in the deal it allowed it to pass. | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? We're certainly seeing some massive downsides to Brexit though,arent we? The banking Brexodus has started with thousands in jobs and millions in tax revenue leaving the UK. Dublin alone has seen Barclays, Northern Trust, Citadel, Tobam, Alter Domus, FundRock, JP Morgan, Chaucer, Kabbage, Bank of America Merril Lynch, Willis Towers Watson, Bank of China, Beazley Re, Legal & General and Citigroup announce plans to move some of their operations already. And thats just one city, Frankfurt is expected to get the most in the end. Inflation has skyrocketed since the referendum. The pound has seen a severe devaluation. Consumer confidence and spending is way down. Manufacturing productivity has weakened. The number of cars made in the UK has dropped almost 14%. Overall the UK economy has gone from being one of the fastest growing in Europe and the G20 to the lowest in both. Investors responsible for tens of millions in FDI are now 4 times more likely to see the UK as a worse long term investment than before the referendum. And this is all happening before anything changes. You havent even lost the benefita of the EU yet and this is happening. They are not massive downsides at all. Things like this are to be expected during such an event, the upsides will become apparent in the years to come. Which way did I vote? It's irrelevant now, the decision was made and constantly looking for downsides to everything when you have already lost an argument is rather pointless. " Unless in the next year inflation levels off and decreases and unless the pound goes up in value, anyone with a loan or debt who understands how currency value and inflation can increase their already existing debt/credit is likely to vote in protest to brexit. People my age and younger are worried. We carry debt from student maintainance and loans...plus other loans. Every quarter inflation is this high is a quarter where our debt increases.that is an immediate huge downside if you want to see young people saving for property, renting, or spending their money on our economy | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? We're certainly seeing some massive downsides to Brexit though,arent we? The banking Brexodus has started with thousands in jobs and millions in tax revenue leaving the UK. Dublin alone has seen Barclays, Northern Trust, Citadel, Tobam, Alter Domus, FundRock, JP Morgan, Chaucer, Kabbage, Bank of America Merril Lynch, Willis Towers Watson, Bank of China, Beazley Re, Legal & General and Citigroup announce plans to move some of their operations already. And thats just one city, Frankfurt is expected to get the most in the end. Inflation has skyrocketed since the referendum. The pound has seen a severe devaluation. Consumer confidence and spending is way down. Manufacturing productivity has weakened. The number of cars made in the UK has dropped almost 14%. Overall the UK economy has gone from being one of the fastest growing in Europe and the G20 to the lowest in both. Investors responsible for tens of millions in FDI are now 4 times more likely to see the UK as a worse long term investment than before the referendum. And this is all happening before anything changes. You havent even lost the benefita of the EU yet and this is happening. They are not massive downsides at all. Things like this are to be expected during such an event, the upsides will become apparent in the years to come. Which way did I vote? It's irrelevant now, the decision was made and constantly looking for downsides to everything when you have already lost an argument is rather pointless. They are quite clearly downsides. Its ridiculous to claim otherwise. A government with less tax revenue will mean either tax increases for the people or a cut in services. Would you feel safer if police, defence and health resources were even more stretched than they are? And less jobs might not matter to you, but for the people who lose them its a life changing event. Inflation going up since the referendum means that household budgets are under severe pressure in many home across the nation. Maybe youre fine but do you not consider that a downside for those affected? A recent yougov poll says that more than 50% of Leave voters aged over 65 think Brexit is worth a family member losing their job for. Yes. I heard that poll on the radio today."It was worse than that: "LONDON - Brexit voters are willing for the British economy to take "significant damage" from leaving the EU, even if it means their own family members losing their jobs, a new poll has found. 61% of all Brexit-backers believe that significant damage to the British economy would be a "price worth paying for Brexit," according to the new YouGov poll. A further 39% of all Leave voters would also be willing for their own family members to lose their jobs as a price for Brexit, with just 38% opposed." Just how ideologically driven to you have to be to support under those circumstances? | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? We're certainly seeing some massive downsides to Brexit though,arent we? The banking Brexodus has started with thousands in jobs and millions in tax revenue leaving the UK. Dublin alone has seen Barclays, Northern Trust, Citadel, Tobam, Alter Domus, FundRock, JP Morgan, Chaucer, Kabbage, Bank of America Merril Lynch, Willis Towers Watson, Bank of China, Beazley Re, Legal & General and Citigroup announce plans to move some of their operations already. And thats just one city, Frankfurt is expected to get the most in the end. Inflation has skyrocketed since the referendum. The pound has seen a severe devaluation. Consumer confidence and spending is way down. Manufacturing productivity has weakened. The number of cars made in the UK has dropped almost 14%. Overall the UK economy has gone from being one of the fastest growing in Europe and the G20 to the lowest in both. Investors responsible for tens of millions in FDI are now 4 times more likely to see the UK as a worse long term investment than before the referendum. And this is all happening before anything changes. You havent even lost the benefita of the EU yet and this is happening. They are not massive downsides at all. Things like this are to be expected during such an event, the upsides will become apparent in the years to come. Which way did I vote? It's irrelevant now, the decision was made and constantly looking for downsides to everything when you have already lost an argument is rather pointless. They are quite clearly downsides. Its ridiculous to claim otherwise. A government with less tax revenue will mean either tax increases for the people or a cut in services. Would you feel safer if police, defence and health resources were even more stretched than they are? And less jobs might not matter to you, but for the people who lose them its a life changing event. Inflation going up since the referendum means that household budgets are under severe pressure in many home across the nation. Maybe youre fine but do you not consider that a downside for those affected? A recent yougov poll says that more than 50% of Leave voters aged over 65 think Brexit is worth a family member losing their job for. Yes. I heard that poll on the radio today.
It was worse than that:
"LONDON - Brexit voters are willing for the British economy to take "significant damage" from leaving the EU, even if it means their own family members losing their jobs, a new poll has found.
61% of all Brexit-backers believe that significant damage to the British economy would be a "price worth paying for Brexit," according to the new YouGov poll.
A further 39% of all Leave voters would also be willing for their own family members to lose their jobs as a price for Brexit, with just 38% opposed."
Just how ideologically driven to you have to be to support under those circumstances?
"In one word "crazy" | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? We're certainly seeing some massive downsides to Brexit though,arent we? The banking Brexodus has started with thousands in jobs and millions in tax revenue leaving the UK. Dublin alone has seen Barclays, Northern Trust, Citadel, Tobam, Alter Domus, FundRock, JP Morgan, Chaucer, Kabbage, Bank of America Merril Lynch, Willis Towers Watson, Bank of China, Beazley Re, Legal & General and Citigroup announce plans to move some of their operations already. And thats just one city, Frankfurt is expected to get the most in the end. Inflation has skyrocketed since the referendum. The pound has seen a severe devaluation. Consumer confidence and spending is way down. Manufacturing productivity has weakened. The number of cars made in the UK has dropped almost 14%. Overall the UK economy has gone from being one of the fastest growing in Europe and the G20 to the lowest in both. Investors responsible for tens of millions in FDI are now 4 times more likely to see the UK as a worse long term investment than before the referendum. And this is all happening before anything changes. You havent even lost the benefita of the EU yet and this is happening. They are not massive downsides at all. Things like this are to be expected during such an event, the upsides will become apparent in the years to come. Which way did I vote? It's irrelevant now, the decision was made and constantly looking for downsides to everything when you have already lost an argument is rather pointless. They are quite clearly downsides. Its ridiculous to claim otherwise. A government with less tax revenue will mean either tax increases for the people or a cut in services. Would you feel safer if police, defence and health resources were even more stretched than they are? And less jobs might not matter to you, but for the people who lose them its a life changing event. Inflation going up since the referendum means that household budgets are under severe pressure in many home across the nation. Maybe youre fine but do you not consider that a downside for those affected? A recent yougov poll says that more than 50% of Leave voters aged over 65 think Brexit is worth a family member losing their job for. Yes. I heard that poll on the radio today.
It was worse than that:
"LONDON - Brexit voters are willing for the British economy to take "significant damage" from leaving the EU, even if it means their own family members losing their jobs, a new poll has found.
61% of all Brexit-backers believe that significant damage to the British economy would be a "price worth paying for Brexit," according to the new YouGov poll.
A further 39% of all Leave voters would also be willing for their own family members to lose their jobs as a price for Brexit, with just 38% opposed."
Just how ideologically driven to you have to be to support under those circumstances?
In one word "crazy""Yeah, but at least it's red, white and blue and we've shown them dam foreigners who's boss again | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? We're certainly seeing some massive downsides to Brexit though,arent we? The banking Brexodus has started with thousands in jobs and millions in tax revenue leaving the UK. Dublin alone has seen Barclays, Northern Trust, Citadel, Tobam, Alter Domus, FundRock, JP Morgan, Chaucer, Kabbage, Bank of America Merril Lynch, Willis Towers Watson, Bank of China, Beazley Re, Legal & General and Citigroup announce plans to move some of their operations already. And thats just one city, Frankfurt is expected to get the most in the end. Inflation has skyrocketed since the referendum. The pound has seen a severe devaluation. Consumer confidence and spending is way down. Manufacturing productivity has weakened. The number of cars made in the UK has dropped almost 14%. Overall the UK economy has gone from being one of the fastest growing in Europe and the G20 to the lowest in both. Investors responsible for tens of millions in FDI are now 4 times more likely to see the UK as a worse long term investment than before the referendum. And this is all happening before anything changes. You havent even lost the benefita of the EU yet and this is happening. They are not massive downsides at all. Things like this are to be expected during such an event, the upsides will become apparent in the years to come. Which way did I vote? It's irrelevant now, the decision was made and constantly looking for downsides to everything when you have already lost an argument is rather pointless. They are quite clearly downsides. Its ridiculous to claim otherwise. A government with less tax revenue will mean either tax increases for the people or a cut in services. Would you feel safer if police, defence and health resources were even more stretched than they are? And less jobs might not matter to you, but for the people who lose them its a life changing event. Inflation going up since the referendum means that household budgets are under severe pressure in many home across the nation. Maybe youre fine but do you not consider that a downside for those affected? A recent yougov poll says that more than 50% of Leave voters aged over 65 think Brexit is worth a family member losing their job for. Yes. I heard that poll on the radio today.
It was worse than that:
"LONDON - Brexit voters are willing for the British economy to take "significant damage" from leaving the EU, even if it means their own family members losing their jobs, a new poll has found.
61% of all Brexit-backers believe that significant damage to the British economy would be a "price worth paying for Brexit," according to the new YouGov poll.
A further 39% of all Leave voters would also be willing for their own family members to lose their jobs as a price for Brexit, with just 38% opposed."
Just how ideologically driven to you have to be to support under those circumstances?
In one word "crazy"
Yeah, but at least it's red, white and blue and we've shown them dam foreigners who's boss again "I wonder how many will complain about more people becoming dependant on welfare... | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? We're certainly seeing some massive downsides to Brexit though,arent we? The banking Brexodus has started with thousands in jobs and millions in tax revenue leaving the UK. Dublin alone has seen Barclays, Northern Trust, Citadel, Tobam, Alter Domus, FundRock, JP Morgan, Chaucer, Kabbage, Bank of America Merril Lynch, Willis Towers Watson, Bank of China, Beazley Re, Legal & General and Citigroup announce plans to move some of their operations already. And thats just one city, Frankfurt is expected to get the most in the end. Inflation has skyrocketed since the referendum. The pound has seen a severe devaluation. Consumer confidence and spending is way down. Manufacturing productivity has weakened. The number of cars made in the UK has dropped almost 14%. Overall the UK economy has gone from being one of the fastest growing in Europe and the G20 to the lowest in both. Investors responsible for tens of millions in FDI are now 4 times more likely to see the UK as a worse long term investment than before the referendum. And this is all happening before anything changes. You havent even lost the benefita of the EU yet and this is happening. They are not massive downsides at all. Things like this are to be expected during such an event, the upsides will become apparent in the years to come. Which way did I vote? It's irrelevant now, the decision was made and constantly looking for downsides to everything when you have already lost an argument is rather pointless. They are quite clearly downsides. Its ridiculous to claim otherwise. A government with less tax revenue will mean either tax increases for the people or a cut in services. Would you feel safer if police, defence and health resources were even more stretched than they are? And less jobs might not matter to you, but for the people who lose them its a life changing event. Inflation going up since the referendum means that household budgets are under severe pressure in many home across the nation. Maybe youre fine but do you not consider that a downside for those affected? A recent yougov poll says that more than 50% of Leave voters aged over 65 think Brexit is worth a family member losing their job for. Yes. I heard that poll on the radio today.
It was worse than that:
"LONDON - Brexit voters are willing for the British economy to take "significant damage" from leaving the EU, even if it means their own family members losing their jobs, a new poll has found.
61% of all Brexit-backers believe that significant damage to the British economy would be a "price worth paying for Brexit," according to the new YouGov poll.
A further 39% of all Leave voters would also be willing for their own family members to lose their jobs as a price for Brexit, with just 38% opposed."
Just how ideologically driven to you have to be to support under those circumstances?
In one word "crazy"
Yeah, but at least it's red, white and blue and we've shown them dam foreigners who's boss again
I wonder how many will complain about more people becoming dependant on welfare..."All of them, and then also deny the existence of food banks.  | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? We're certainly seeing some massive downsides to Brexit though,arent we? The banking Brexodus has started with thousands in jobs and millions in tax revenue leaving the UK. Dublin alone has seen Barclays, Northern Trust, Citadel, Tobam, Alter Domus, FundRock, JP Morgan, Chaucer, Kabbage, Bank of America Merril Lynch, Willis Towers Watson, Bank of China, Beazley Re, Legal & General and Citigroup announce plans to move some of their operations already. And thats just one city, Frankfurt is expected to get the most in the end. Inflation has skyrocketed since the referendum. The pound has seen a severe devaluation. Consumer confidence and spending is way down. Manufacturing productivity has weakened. The number of cars made in the UK has dropped almost 14%. Overall the UK economy has gone from being one of the fastest growing in Europe and the G20 to the lowest in both. Investors responsible for tens of millions in FDI are now 4 times more likely to see the UK as a worse long term investment than before the referendum. And this is all happening before anything changes. You havent even lost the benefita of the EU yet and this is happening. They are not massive downsides at all. Things like this are to be expected during such an event, the upsides will become apparent in the years to come. Which way did I vote? It's irrelevant now, the decision was made and constantly looking for downsides to everything when you have already lost an argument is rather pointless. They are quite clearly downsides. Its ridiculous to claim otherwise. A government with less tax revenue will mean either tax increases for the people or a cut in services. Would you feel safer if police, defence and health resources were even more stretched than they are? And less jobs might not matter to you, but for the people who lose them its a life changing event. Inflation going up since the referendum means that household budgets are under severe pressure in many home across the nation. Maybe youre fine but do you not consider that a downside for those affected? A recent yougov poll says that more than 50% of Leave voters aged over 65 think Brexit is worth a family member losing their job for. Yes. I heard that poll on the radio today.
It was worse than that:
"LONDON - Brexit voters are willing for the British economy to take "significant damage" from leaving the EU, even if it means their own family members losing their jobs, a new poll has found.
61% of all Brexit-backers believe that significant damage to the British economy would be a "price worth paying for Brexit," according to the new YouGov poll.
A further 39% of all Leave voters would also be willing for their own family members to lose their jobs as a price for Brexit, with just 38% opposed."
Just how ideologically driven to you have to be to support under those circumstances?
In one word "crazy"
Yeah, but at least it's red, white and blue and we've shown them dam foreigners who's boss again
I wonder how many will complain about more people becoming dependant on welfare...
All of them, and then also deny the existence of food banks. "But then they also rant about taking care of our own first because we have so much poverty in the country...there is something wrong because we cannot fund the NHS and police properly... | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? We're certainly seeing some massive downsides to Brexit though,arent we? The banking Brexodus has started with thousands in jobs and millions in tax revenue leaving the UK. Dublin alone has seen Barclays, Northern Trust, Citadel, Tobam, Alter Domus, FundRock, JP Morgan, Chaucer, Kabbage, Bank of America Merril Lynch, Willis Towers Watson, Bank of China, Beazley Re, Legal & General and Citigroup announce plans to move some of their operations already. And thats just one city, Frankfurt is expected to get the most in the end. Inflation has skyrocketed since the referendum. The pound has seen a severe devaluation. Consumer confidence and spending is way down. Manufacturing productivity has weakened. The number of cars made in the UK has dropped almost 14%. Overall the UK economy has gone from being one of the fastest growing in Europe and the G20 to the lowest in both. Investors responsible for tens of millions in FDI are now 4 times more likely to see the UK as a worse long term investment than before the referendum. And this is all happening before anything changes. You havent even lost the benefita of the EU yet and this is happening. They are not massive downsides at all. Things like this are to be expected during such an event, the upsides will become apparent in the years to come. Which way did I vote? It's irrelevant now, the decision was made and constantly looking for downsides to everything when you have already lost an argument is rather pointless. They are quite clearly downsides. Its ridiculous to claim otherwise. A government with less tax revenue will mean either tax increases for the people or a cut in services. Would you feel safer if police, defence and health resources were even more stretched than they are? And less jobs might not matter to you, but for the people who lose them its a life changing event. Inflation going up since the referendum means that household budgets are under severe pressure in many home across the nation. Maybe youre fine but do you not consider that a downside for those affected? A recent yougov poll says that more than 50% of Leave voters aged over 65 think Brexit is worth a family member losing their job for. Yes. I heard that poll on the radio today.
It was worse than that:
"LONDON - Brexit voters are willing for the British economy to take "significant damage" from leaving the EU, even if it means their own family members losing their jobs, a new poll has found.
61% of all Brexit-backers believe that significant damage to the British economy would be a "price worth paying for Brexit," according to the new YouGov poll.
A further 39% of all Leave voters would also be willing for their own family members to lose their jobs as a price for Brexit, with just 38% opposed."
Just how ideologically driven to you have to be to support under those circumstances?
In one word "crazy"
Yeah, but at least it's red, white and blue and we've shown them dam foreigners who's boss again
I wonder how many will complain about more people becoming dependant on welfare...
All of them, and then also deny the existence of food banks.
But then they also rant about taking care of our own first because we have so much poverty in the country...there is something wrong because we cannot fund the NHS and police properly..."But it'll be the fault of the EU for punishing us and the remainers for not getting behind it when we had them on the ropes... | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? We're certainly seeing some massive downsides to Brexit though,arent we? The banking Brexodus has started with thousands in jobs and millions in tax revenue leaving the UK. Dublin alone has seen Barclays, Northern Trust, Citadel, Tobam, Alter Domus, FundRock, JP Morgan, Chaucer, Kabbage, Bank of America Merril Lynch, Willis Towers Watson, Bank of China, Beazley Re, Legal & General and Citigroup announce plans to move some of their operations already. And thats just one city, Frankfurt is expected to get the most in the end. Inflation has skyrocketed since the referendum. The pound has seen a severe devaluation. Consumer confidence and spending is way down. Manufacturing productivity has weakened. The number of cars made in the UK has dropped almost 14%. Overall the UK economy has gone from being one of the fastest growing in Europe and the G20 to the lowest in both. Investors responsible for tens of millions in FDI are now 4 times more likely to see the UK as a worse long term investment than before the referendum. And this is all happening before anything changes. You havent even lost the benefita of the EU yet and this is happening. They are not massive downsides at all. Things like this are to be expected during such an event, the upsides will become apparent in the years to come. Which way did I vote? It's irrelevant now, the decision was made and constantly looking for downsides to everything when you have already lost an argument is rather pointless. They are quite clearly downsides. Its ridiculous to claim otherwise. A government with less tax revenue will mean either tax increases for the people or a cut in services. Would you feel safer if police, defence and health resources were even more stretched than they are? And less jobs might not matter to you, but for the people who lose them its a life changing event. Inflation going up since the referendum means that household budgets are under severe pressure in many home across the nation. Maybe youre fine but do you not consider that a downside for those affected? A recent yougov poll says that more than 50% of Leave voters aged over 65 think Brexit is worth a family member losing their job for. Yes. I heard that poll on the radio today.
It was worse than that:
"LONDON - Brexit voters are willing for the British economy to take "significant damage" from leaving the EU, even if it means their own family members losing their jobs, a new poll has found.
61% of all Brexit-backers believe that significant damage to the British economy would be a "price worth paying for Brexit," according to the new YouGov poll.
A further 39% of all Leave voters would also be willing for their own family members to lose their jobs as a price for Brexit, with just 38% opposed."
Just how ideologically driven to you have to be to support under those circumstances?
In one word "crazy"
Yeah, but at least it's red, white and blue and we've shown them dam foreigners who's boss again
I wonder how many will complain about more people becoming dependant on welfare...
All of them, and then also deny the existence of food banks.
But then they also rant about taking care of our own first because we have so much poverty in the country...there is something wrong because we cannot fund the NHS and police properly...
But it'll be the fault of the EU for punishing us and the remainers for not getting behind it when we had them on the ropes..."It will also be the EU's fault in there eyes when we have more years of austerity for having to pay our dues to the EU | |||
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"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? Because Brexit won't happen?....As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld". Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71 In signs of an intensifying cabinet row over the issue, the Telegraph reported on Sunday that allies of the chancellor had accused Mr Fox of living in a “fantasy land” about the post-Brexit deal. An aide to Mr Hammond refused to comment on the tensions between ministers over the nature of the transition agreement. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71 "Hammond has already been slapped down by Theresa May for talking nonsense over the last week or so. The Leave means Leave campaign group has called for him to be sacked as chancellor. I'd be worried about his position if I was him. | |||
"As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld". I for one fully agree with you and Liam Fox. Anyone who thinks that brexit will not happen is dreaming... However I also believe that all the Eurosceptic brexiteers including Fox, boJo, Gove, Davis and and his brexit team as well as those who believe the above bunch of millionaire charlatans are going to lead us all to a post EU land of milk and honey are also deluded. Well there are rumours that Boris might resign. I don't really see him as an ideologue, he could have gone either way on Leave/Remain, I think he may have tossed a coin for it. In that respect he is quite different to Fox and Davis. I think when the writing is on the wall, he will switch allegiances, I can't see him intentionally going down with the ship. He will try and live to fight another day." Rumours that Boris might resign.....started by swivel eyed remaniac Lib dem leader Vince Cable of all people.
Boris himself quickly Denied it and said old Vince should think up some new Lib dem policies rather than spreading lies about the cabinet. | |||
"The ONLY POSSIBLE losers are the EU? Yesterday the PM's spokesman said 'Free movement of EU citizens to Britain will end when the country leaves the EU in March 2019' What that also means is that British citizens' right to live and work freely in 27 other nations will be forcefully removed in March 2019. So just on that, many UK citizens are losers. " Forcefully removed? Nothing is being forcefully removed we had a vote on this remember and this is what the country voted for in a fair democratic process called a referendum. | |||
" Well they'd better be nice to us then hadn't they so that they have our backing in trade and influence without charging us for the 'privilege'
Ok you dont get it. The UK wont be backing us on trade or influence once they leave. Its not something to be negotiated on. Its not even something May can offer.
If you dont understand the fundamentals of the debate then you shoukd read up on it before you take part. That way you wont waste your time posting things that dont make any sense.
I understand a lot more than yourself. Your posts are both hysterical and hilarious. Where do you get your information from? "It's clear from all the links they post on here they get their information from nonsensical hysterical remain rags like the FT and The guardian. | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? We're certainly seeing some massive downsides to Brexit though,arent we? The banking Brexodus has started with thousands in jobs and millions in tax revenue leaving the UK. Dublin alone has seen Barclays, Northern Trust, Citadel, Tobam, Alter Domus, FundRock, JP Morgan, Chaucer, Kabbage, Bank of America Merril Lynch, Willis Towers Watson, Bank of China, Beazley Re, Legal & General and Citigroup announce plans to move some of their operations already. And thats just one city, Frankfurt is expected to get the most in the end. Inflation has skyrocketed since the referendum. The pound has seen a severe devaluation. Consumer confidence and spending is way down. Manufacturing productivity has weakened. The number of cars made in the UK has dropped almost 14%. Overall the UK economy has gone from being one of the fastest growing in Europe and the G20 to the lowest in both. Investors responsible for tens of millions in FDI are now 4 times more likely to see the UK as a worse long term investment than before the referendum. And this is all happening before anything changes. You havent even lost the benefita of the EU yet and this is happening." If you had the ability to look at things objectively you would see that the current inflation rate is not far off the bank of England's target of 2%. The official inflation figures released by the ONS showed inflation fell last month. Also now despite your constant scaremongering on here 2 independent think tanks have said UK trade will boom because of Brexit. Uk Exports and the tourism industry have already seen a boost from the currency devaluation which former governor of the bank of England Mervyn King said the bank of England had been trying to devalue the pound unsuccessfully for a number of years before Brexit because it was overvalued. Millions of jobs are still being created in the uk so by comparison the job losses you keep highlighting are a drop in the ocean. Going back to Mervyn King again he said in recent days..."in a few years time people will look back at the economic record of the UK and will have difficulty actually spotting where Brexit occurred". | |||
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"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? We're certainly seeing some massive downsides to Brexit though,arent we? The banking Brexodus has started with thousands in jobs and millions in tax revenue leaving the UK. Dublin alone has seen Barclays, Northern Trust, Citadel, Tobam, Alter Domus, FundRock, JP Morgan, Chaucer, Kabbage, Bank of America Merril Lynch, Willis Towers Watson, Bank of China, Beazley Re, Legal & General and Citigroup announce plans to move some of their operations already. And thats just one city, Frankfurt is expected to get the most in the end. Inflation has skyrocketed since the referendum. The pound has seen a severe devaluation. Consumer confidence and spending is way down. Manufacturing productivity has weakened. The number of cars made in the UK has dropped almost 14%. Overall the UK economy has gone from being one of the fastest growing in Europe and the G20 to the lowest in both. Investors responsible for tens of millions in FDI are now 4 times more likely to see the UK as a worse long term investment than before the referendum. And this is all happening before anything changes. You havent even lost the benefita of the EU yet and this is happening. If you had the ability to look at things objectively you would see that the current inflation rate is not far off the bank of England's target of 2%. The official inflation figures released by the ONS showed inflation fell last month. Also now despite your constant scaremongering on here 2 independent think tanks have said UK trade will boom because of Brexit. Uk Exports and the tourism industry have already seen a boost from the currency devaluation which former governor of the bank of England Mervyn King said the bank of England had been trying to devalue the pound unsuccessfully for a number of years before Brexit because it was overvalued. Millions of jobs are still being created in the uk so by comparison the job losses you keep highlighting are a drop in the ocean. Going back to Mervyn King again he said in recent days..."in a few years time people will look back at the economic record of the UK and will have difficulty actually spotting where Brexit occurred". " Maths isn't your strong point is it? Current inflation last month was 2.6%. That is 30% higher than the 2% target. That is not 'not far off'. That is quite a way off. -Matt | |||
"There is no-one more qualified than Michael Dougan to talk about economic causes and effects with regards to the various treaties and agreements that the UK has with the EU. He is a figure absolutely hated by a Brexiters because he is knowledgable and pragmatic and simply talks openly about his area of expertise. As is the case Brexiters will do anything to smear and denigrate any kind of expert because detailed knowledge, deep thinking, preparation and planning are just not part of the Brexitology way. " Simply not the case, you only have to read the post I made before yours to see I highlighted comments made by Former governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King who is an expert in economic and financial affairs. | |||
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"There is no-one more qualified than Michael Dougan to talk about economic causes and effects with regards to the various treaties and agreements that the UK has with the EU. He is a figure absolutely hated by a Brexiters because he is knowledgable and pragmatic and simply talks openly about his area of expertise. As is the case Brexiters will do anything to smear and denigrate any kind of expert because detailed knowledge, deep thinking, preparation and planning are just not part of the Brexitology way. Simply not the case, you only have to read the post I made before yours to see I highlighted comments made by Former governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King who is an expert in economic and financial affairs. " Last time I looked, Michael Dougan was a highly qualified and universally respected Professor who specialises in European Law and specifically how it relates to internal trade and treaties. Mervin King is a former Governer of the Bank of England. Both positions are highly qualified and therefore both people ought to be listened to and to be considered as having legitimate viewpoints. Therein is the difference. Most rational people would listen to both and digest what both say before forming an opinion. Brexitologists will listen to what they want to hear in their own echo chamber and anyone who makes a statement or point that does not toe the ideological line is berated, harassed and attacked for being biased or ignorant or both. As a poster alluded to above, if truth has to be ideologically correct, it stops being the truth. Some in this country have become ideologically brainwashed and are both unable and unwilling to take on board anything that doesn't fit the agenda. | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? Because Brexit won't happen?....As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld". Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71 In signs of an intensifying cabinet row over the issue, the Telegraph reported on Sunday that allies of the chancellor had accused Mr Fox of living in a “fantasy land” about the post-Brexit deal. An aide to Mr Hammond refused to comment on the tensions between ministers over the nature of the transition agreement. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71
Hammond has already been slapped down by Theresa May for talking nonsense over the last week or so. The Leave means Leave campaign group has called for him to be sacked as chancellor. I'd be worried about his position if I was him. "Please provide your sources of this information that he has....im not even bothered if its from the Dail Fail....but provide something as other posters do not just your thoughts but credible proof....and wasnt/isnt May on holiday? and Hammond in control of the government?....ah yes strong and stable yet again talk about the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing....again please provide facts about them wanting him sacked | |||
"There is no-one more qualified than Michael Dougan to talk about economic causes and effects with regards to the various treaties and agreements that the UK has with the EU. He is a figure absolutely hated by a Brexiters because he is knowledgable and pragmatic and simply talks openly about his area of expertise. As is the case Brexiters will do anything to smear and denigrate any kind of expert because detailed knowledge, deep thinking, preparation and planning are just not part of the Brexitology way. Simply not the case, you only have to read the post I made before yours to see I highlighted comments made by Former governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King who is an expert in economic and financial affairs. " Who said this British politicians have “lost touch” with voters and elitist bids to suppress the EU debate made the referendum on membership that led to the Brexit vote | |||
"Centaur, I love how vigorously you try to tarnish the names of anyone with in depth knowledge about the processes we must go through. Not even in a classy and clever way. My mother's dad lived under the Junta in Greece and moved around the old soviet block for a while. He told me about speakers on the corners of every street of any signifigant settlement which would constantly blast progranda and scream nonsense about 'the west'. Your desperation to sweep away any debate on the pros and cons and which is the right course of action, if it does not line up with your view, reminds me of this, alongside stories my great grandmother told me about the German occupation of Norway. Just a thought, hopefully you can realise there is nothing flattering about being compared to two of the worlds most horrid and failed political systems." Exactly the same can be said in the opposite direction for ideological remainers who simply dismiss any positive arguments made for Brexit out of hand, only listen to remain propaganda and think anyone with a different world view is uneducated or is guilty of racism or any other sort of 'ism' that they can try to pin on someone with a different opinion. | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? Because Brexit won't happen?....As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld". Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71 In signs of an intensifying cabinet row over the issue, the Telegraph reported on Sunday that allies of the chancellor had accused Mr Fox of living in a “fantasy land” about the post-Brexit deal. An aide to Mr Hammond refused to comment on the tensions between ministers over the nature of the transition agreement. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71
Hammond has already been slapped down by Theresa May for talking nonsense over the last week or so. The Leave means Leave campaign group has called for him to be sacked as chancellor. I'd be worried about his position if I was him.
Please provide your sources of this information that he has....im not even bothered if its from the Dail Fail....but provide something as other posters do not just your thoughts but credible proof....and wasnt/isnt May on holiday? and Hammond in control of the government?....ah yes strong and stable yet again talk about the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing....again please provide facts about them wanting him sacked "I take it you watch the news as this was reported on all major news channels, sky news, BBC news, channel 4 news, itv news, etc. Yes Theresa May is on holiday but that doesn't stop her leading the country and carrying out some Prime ministerial duties through the avenue of her spokesperson left here in the UK. When the Prime Ministers spokesperson speaks then they are conveying a message to the country directly from the Prime minister and this is what happened when Hammond was slapped down by the Prime minister in recent days. Hammond is only a caretaker leader in effect while the Prime minister is on holiday but the Prime minister can still exert her authority over Hammond through her spokesperson here in the UK while she is on holiday and that's what happened. As for the leave means leave campaign group (which is separate from the government) wanting Hammond sacked as chancellor a quick basic search on Google will provide proof of this. | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? Because Brexit won't happen?....As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld". Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71 In signs of an intensifying cabinet row over the issue, the Telegraph reported on Sunday that allies of the chancellor had accused Mr Fox of living in a “fantasy land” about the post-Brexit deal. An aide to Mr Hammond refused to comment on the tensions between ministers over the nature of the transition agreement. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71
Hammond has already been slapped down by Theresa May for talking nonsense over the last week or so. The Leave means Leave campaign group has called for him to be sacked as chancellor. I'd be worried about his position if I was him.
Please provide your sources of this information that he has....im not even bothered if its from the Dail Fail....but provide something as other posters do not just your thoughts but credible proof....and wasnt/isnt May on holiday? and Hammond in control of the government?....ah yes strong and stable yet again talk about the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing....again please provide facts about them wanting him sacked
I take it you watch the news as this was reported on all major news channels, sky news, BBC news, channel 4 news, itv news, etc. Yes Theresa May is on holiday but that doesn't stop her leading the country and carrying out some Prime ministerial duties through the avenue of her spokesperson left here in the UK. When the Prime Ministers spokesperson speaks then they are conveying a message to the country directly from the Prime minister and this is what happened when Hammond was slapped down by the Prime minister in recent days. Hammond is only a caretaker leader in effect while the Prime minister is on holiday but the Prime minister can still exert her authority over Hammond through her spokesperson here in the UK while she is on holiday and that's what happened. As for the leave means leave campaign group (which is separate from the government) wanting Hammond sacked as chancellor a quick basic search on Google will provide proof of this. "You provide the facts if you can | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? Because Brexit won't happen?....As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld". Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71 In signs of an intensifying cabinet row over the issue, the Telegraph reported on Sunday that allies of the chancellor had accused Mr Fox of living in a “fantasy land” about the post-Brexit deal. An aide to Mr Hammond refused to comment on the tensions between ministers over the nature of the transition agreement. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71
Hammond has already been slapped down by Theresa May for talking nonsense over the last week or so. The Leave means Leave campaign group has called for him to be sacked as chancellor. I'd be worried about his position if I was him.
Please provide your sources of this information that he has....im not even bothered if its from the Dail Fail....but provide something as other posters do not just your thoughts but credible proof....and wasnt/isnt May on holiday? and Hammond in control of the government?....ah yes strong and stable yet again talk about the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing....again please provide facts about them wanting him sacked
I take it you watch the news as this was reported on all major news channels, sky news, BBC news, channel 4 news, itv news, etc. Yes Theresa May is on holiday but that doesn't stop her leading the country and carrying out some Prime ministerial duties through the avenue of her spokesperson left here in the UK. When the Prime Ministers spokesperson speaks then they are conveying a message to the country directly from the Prime minister and this is what happened when Hammond was slapped down by the Prime minister in recent days. Hammond is only a caretaker leader in effect while the Prime minister is on holiday but the Prime minister can still exert her authority over Hammond through her spokesperson here in the UK while she is on holiday and that's what happened. As for the leave means leave campaign group (which is separate from the government) wanting Hammond sacked as chancellor a quick basic search on Google will provide proof of this.
You provide the facts if you can "He can't my friend he talks out of his arsehole everything he says is statements he's seen on the news media radio TVs jackanory blue peter The Wombles the list is endless Trouble is he believes it all he does make me laugh to myself at his posts utter nonesence | |||
"Centaur, I love how vigorously you try to tarnish the names of anyone with in depth knowledge about the processes we must go through. Not even in a classy and clever way. My mother's dad lived under the Junta in Greece and moved around the old soviet block for a while. He told me about speakers on the corners of every street of any signifigant settlement which would constantly blast progranda and scream nonsense about 'the west'. Your desperation to sweep away any debate on the pros and cons and which is the right course of action, if it does not line up with your view, reminds me of this, alongside stories my great grandmother told me about the German occupation of Norway. Just a thought, hopefully you can realise there is nothing flattering about being compared to two of the worlds most horrid and failed political systems. Exactly the same can be said in the opposite direction for ideological remainers who simply dismiss any positive arguments made for Brexit out of hand, only listen to remain propaganda and think anyone with a different world view is uneducated or is guilty of racism or any other sort of 'ism' that they can try to pin on someone with a different opinion. " I've pointed that out in the past as well. The correct course of action - which is something you, as well as die hard EU luvies fail to do, is to realise that leave and remain are both lose lose situations in the short and long run. What you, like the EU luvies want, is to portray your ideology as the only true and correct one, that is how things always go from bad to worse. Right now we need sensible discussions on how to find a sensible, pragmatic and happy middle ground. One which gives a large proportion of the population the control it clearly felt it wanted and needed, whilst not causing capital flight and making the UK less competitive in the third wave and quaternary industry markets we are not geared up to capitalise on. Not to mention that we do not want to go down the route of 'who can offer businesses the lowest taxes wins' route. The public of each nation involved loses in that. And in the long run, the EU will win, so long as France and Germany stay afloat the current EU leaders will happily inflict poverty on other nations. We on the other hand would get fed up with it after one election cycle -which is not enough to win this kind of trade war, and you'd then have someone in who needs to to tax people more. In doing so a lot of businesses would once again look to the EU and we would lose. The brexiteer mindset is one of recessions don't matter because we got through the war. Guess what, people where I live are still on the breadline after the 2008 crash, they will reject brexit if it means things going that way again. | |||
"Centaur, I love how vigorously you try to tarnish the names of anyone with in depth knowledge about the processes we must go through. Not even in a classy and clever way. My mother's dad lived under the Junta in Greece and moved around the old soviet block for a while. He told me about speakers on the corners of every street of any signifigant settlement which would constantly blast progranda and scream nonsense about 'the west'. Your desperation to sweep away any debate on the pros and cons and which is the right course of action, if it does not line up with your view, reminds me of this, alongside stories my great grandmother told me about the German occupation of Norway. Just a thought, hopefully you can realise there is nothing flattering about being compared to two of the worlds most horrid and failed political systems. Exactly the same can be said in the opposite direction for ideological remainers who simply dismiss any positive arguments made for Brexit out of hand, only listen to remain propaganda and think anyone with a different world view is uneducated or is guilty of racism or any other sort of 'ism' that they can try to pin on someone with a different opinion. I've pointed that out in the past as well. The correct course of action - which is something you, as well as die hard EU luvies fail to do, is to realise that leave and remain are both lose lose situations in the short and long run. What you, like the EU luvies want, is to portray your ideology as the only true and correct one, that is how things always go from bad to worse. Right now we need sensible discussions on how to find a sensible, pragmatic and happy middle ground. One which gives a large proportion of the population the control it clearly felt it wanted and needed, whilst not causing capital flight and making the UK less competitive in the third wave and quaternary industry markets we are not geared up to capitalise on. Not to mention that we do not want to go down the route of 'who can offer businesses the lowest taxes wins' route. The public of each nation involved loses in that. And in the long run, the EU will win, so long as France and Germany stay afloat the current EU leaders will happily inflict poverty on other nations. We on the other hand would get fed up with it after one election cycle -which is not enough to win this kind of trade war, and you'd then have someone in who needs to to tax people more. In doing so a lot of businesses would once again look to the EU and we would lose. The brexiteer mindset is one of recessions don't matter because we got through the war. Guess what, people where I live are still on the breadline after the 2008 crash, they will reject brexit if it means things going that way again. " Some good joined up thinking there. Question: do you think that the EU should think about change to the way it operates? Like you, I'm of the opinion that this is becoming a "lose, lose" situation, where the need to be seen to "win" is overtaking all rationale. | |||
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"Do you think we should had pushed for change on the inside of the EU rather than coming out altogether?" Yes I do. I also think that on the result of the referendum, we should have asked the EU for an "exit blueprint". Seen what the options are, before committing to Article 50. Their are too many people involved in our final exit deal; the EU Parliament, the EU Commission, the hundreds of MEPs, the several dozen Regional Councils, and of course, the UK Parliament. Any one of those could throw out any final Brexit deal, but by then the damage will have been done. I see changing minds from within being an eminently more sensible option. | |||
"Do you think we should had pushed for change on the inside of the EU rather than coming out altogether? Yes I do. I also think that on the result of the referendum, we should have asked the EU for an "exit blueprint". Seen what the options are, before committing to Article 50. Their are too many people involved in our final exit deal; the EU Parliament, the EU Commission, the hundreds of MEPs, the several dozen Regional Councils, and of course, the UK Parliament. Any one of those could throw out any final Brexit deal, but by then the damage will have been done. I see changing minds from within being an eminently more sensible option." Agreed... we are now just blindly leading ourselves into the dark | |||
"Centaur, I love how vigorously you try to tarnish the names of anyone with in depth knowledge about the processes we must go through. Not even in a classy and clever way. My mother's dad lived under the Junta in Greece and moved around the old soviet block for a while. He told me about speakers on the corners of every street of any signifigant settlement which would constantly blast progranda and scream nonsense about 'the west'. Your desperation to sweep away any debate on the pros and cons and which is the right course of action, if it does not line up with your view, reminds me of this, alongside stories my great grandmother told me about the German occupation of Norway. Just a thought, hopefully you can realise there is nothing flattering about being compared to two of the worlds most horrid and failed political systems. Exactly the same can be said in the opposite direction for ideological remainers who simply dismiss any positive arguments made for Brexit out of hand, only listen to remain propaganda and think anyone with a different world view is uneducated or is guilty of racism or any other sort of 'ism' that they can try to pin on someone with a different opinion. " Well the thing is Brexiters have been pretty poor about predicting anything post referendum and you constantly have to misrepresent the facts to try and justify your position. So you dont have very much credibility do you? You said the Tory negotiating team would have all the leverage in talks and the EU would have to do what May wanted. Thats been the opposite of reality. You came on here after reading a baltant lie in the Sun about sequencing of talks being a victory for Davis despite him saying sequencing would weaken Britains negotiating position and strategy. Then when you're called out on sequencing you try and misdirect the conversation and say that giving citizen rights priority is the same thing (its not) and that Mays failed gambit to try and divide the EU countries by trying early negotiations on the issue somehow proves its a victory. In your mind two failures is a victory I guess. The Tory party has shown itself to be completely unprepared and in disarray over Brexit. (Does leaving Euratom with no deal put patients at risk? Yes. We mean no its scaremongering. Oh no wait actually it is, sorry for the confusion). Financial companies wont move at all. Ok they will but it will only be token moves, no real loss to jobs or tax. Ok there will be job losses and tax revenue will go down but it will be worth it. You yourself came on here touting the strength of the manufacturing industry as proof of post Brexit success only to then see results soften and now its not an indicator of anything because it doesnt suit you anymore. You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. If you were able to post in a consistent, honest way then you'd have credibility. But you dont because you cant. The longer this goes on the more people see Brexit is going to be a failure. The support for a second referendum has risen over the last 6 months. You'll point out a majority doesnt want one so far unless that changes and then you'll say it doesnt matter. | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? Because Brexit won't happen?....As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld". Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71 In signs of an intensifying cabinet row over the issue, the Telegraph reported on Sunday that allies of the chancellor had accused Mr Fox of living in a “fantasy land” about the post-Brexit deal. An aide to Mr Hammond refused to comment on the tensions between ministers over the nature of the transition agreement. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71
Hammond has already been slapped down by Theresa May for talking nonsense over the last week or so. The Leave means Leave campaign group has called for him to be sacked as chancellor. I'd be worried about his position if I was him.
Please provide your sources of this information that he has....im not even bothered if its from the Dail Fail....but provide something as other posters do not just your thoughts but credible proof....and wasnt/isnt May on holiday? and Hammond in control of the government?....ah yes strong and stable yet again talk about the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing....again please provide facts about them wanting him sacked
I take it you watch the news as this was reported on all major news channels, sky news, BBC news, channel 4 news, itv news, etc. Yes Theresa May is on holiday but that doesn't stop her leading the country and carrying out some Prime ministerial duties through the avenue of her spokesperson left here in the UK. When the Prime Ministers spokesperson speaks then they are conveying a message to the country directly from the Prime minister and this is what happened when Hammond was slapped down by the Prime minister in recent days. Hammond is only a caretaker leader in effect while the Prime minister is on holiday but the Prime minister can still exert her authority over Hammond through her spokesperson here in the UK while she is on holiday and that's what happened. As for the leave means leave campaign group (which is separate from the government) wanting Hammond sacked as chancellor a quick basic search on Google will provide proof of this.
You provide the facts if you can "As its become abundantly clear now you're incapable of doing a very basic search of Google and you need to be spoon fed everything here is a link for you.... www.express.co.uk/news/politics/835766/brexit-news-latest-eu-philip-hammond-britain-theresa-may-chancellor | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. " This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone. | |||
"Centaur, I love how vigorously you try to tarnish the names of anyone with in depth knowledge about the processes we must go through. Not even in a classy and clever way. My mother's dad lived under the Junta in Greece and moved around the old soviet block for a while. He told me about speakers on the corners of every street of any signifigant settlement which would constantly blast progranda and scream nonsense about 'the west'. Your desperation to sweep away any debate on the pros and cons and which is the right course of action, if it does not line up with your view, reminds me of this, alongside stories my great grandmother told me about the German occupation of Norway. Just a thought, hopefully you can realise there is nothing flattering about being compared to two of the worlds most horrid and failed political systems. Exactly the same can be said in the opposite direction for ideological remainers who simply dismiss any positive arguments made for Brexit out of hand, only listen to remain propaganda and think anyone with a different world view is uneducated or is guilty of racism or any other sort of 'ism' that they can try to pin on someone with a different opinion. I've pointed that out in the past as well. The correct course of action - which is something you, as well as die hard EU luvies fail to do, is to realise that leave and remain are both lose lose situations in the short and long run. What you, like the EU luvies want, is to portray your ideology as the only true and correct one, that is how things always go from bad to worse. Right now we need sensible discussions on how to find a sensible, pragmatic and happy middle ground. One which gives a large proportion of the population the control it clearly felt it wanted and needed, whilst not causing capital flight and making the UK less competitive in the third wave and quaternary industry markets we are not geared up to capitalise on. Not to mention that we do not want to go down the route of 'who can offer businesses the lowest taxes wins' route. The public of each nation involved loses in that. And in the long run, the EU will win, so long as France and Germany stay afloat the current EU leaders will happily inflict poverty on other nations. We on the other hand would get fed up with it after one election cycle -which is not enough to win this kind of trade war, and you'd then have someone in who needs to to tax people more. In doing so a lot of businesses would once again look to the EU and we would lose. The brexiteer mindset is one of recessions don't matter because we got through the war. Guess what, people where I live are still on the breadline after the 2008 crash, they will reject brexit if it means things going that way again. Some good joined up thinking there. Question: do you think that the EU should think about change to the way it operates? Like you, I'm of the opinion that this is becoming a "lose, lose" situation, where the need to be seen to "win" is overtaking all rationale." The EU has shown itself to be completely unwilling to change or reform itself. David Cameron asked for some pretty small EU reforms in his renegotiation before the referendum and the EU hardly budged an inch. The EU won't change in the direction Britain wants (which is a less tightly knit, less integrated, less federalist , less centralisation of power in Brussels EU) and since Macron was elected in France we've seen the EU sounding like it wants to be more federalist, more integrated, more centralisation of power in Brussels, so its clear the EU and Britain are heading in completely the opposite directions. The only option for us then is to leave. | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone. "An extreme talent for dancing around the point when the facts don't lie... They are the numbers. You should go into politics yourself. Effectively you have a theory about the EU which the data hasn't yet confirmed for you. You might be right in the future...there is a hope.... but right now you 100% incorrect. It's not collapsing. | |||
| |||
"Centaur, I love how vigorously you try to tarnish the names of anyone with in depth knowledge about the processes we must go through. Not even in a classy and clever way. My mother's dad lived under the Junta in Greece and moved around the old soviet block for a while. He told me about speakers on the corners of every street of any signifigant settlement which would constantly blast progranda and scream nonsense about 'the west'. Your desperation to sweep away any debate on the pros and cons and which is the right course of action, if it does not line up with your view, reminds me of this, alongside stories my great grandmother told me about the German occupation of Norway. Just a thought, hopefully you can realise there is nothing flattering about being compared to two of the worlds most horrid and failed political systems. Exactly the same can be said in the opposite direction for ideological remainers who simply dismiss any positive arguments made for Brexit out of hand, only listen to remain propaganda and think anyone with a different world view is uneducated or is guilty of racism or any other sort of 'ism' that they can try to pin on someone with a different opinion. I've pointed that out in the past as well. The correct course of action - which is something you, as well as die hard EU luvies fail to do, is to realise that leave and remain are both lose lose situations in the short and long run. What you, like the EU luvies want, is to portray your ideology as the only true and correct one, that is how things always go from bad to worse. Right now we need sensible discussions on how to find a sensible, pragmatic and happy middle ground. One which gives a large proportion of the population the control it clearly felt it wanted and needed, whilst not causing capital flight and making the UK less competitive in the third wave and quaternary industry markets we are not geared up to capitalise on. Not to mention that we do not want to go down the route of 'who can offer businesses the lowest taxes wins' route. The public of each nation involved loses in that. And in the long run, the EU will win, so long as France and Germany stay afloat the current EU leaders will happily inflict poverty on other nations. We on the other hand would get fed up with it after one election cycle -which is not enough to win this kind of trade war, and you'd then have someone in who needs to to tax people more. In doing so a lot of businesses would once again look to the EU and we would lose. The brexiteer mindset is one of recessions don't matter because we got through the war. Guess what, people where I live are still on the breadline after the 2008 crash, they will reject brexit if it means things going that way again. Some good joined up thinking there. Question: do you think that the EU should think about change to the way it operates? Like you, I'm of the opinion that this is becoming a "lose, lose" situation, where the need to be seen to "win" is overtaking all rationale. The EU has shown itself to be completely unwilling to change or reform itself. David Cameron asked for some pretty small EU reforms in his renegotiation before the referendum and the EU hardly budged an inch. The EU won't change in the direction Britain wants (which is a less tightly knit, less integrated, less federalist , less centralisation of power in Brussels EU) and since Macron was elected in France we've seen the EU sounding like it wants to be more federalist, more integrated, more centralisation of power in Brussels, so its clear the EU and Britain are heading in completely the opposite directions. The only option for us then is to leave. " The UK had an opt out from ever closer Union and so what you say Cameron wanted (less tightly knit, less integrated, less federalist , less centralisation of power in Brussels EU). The UK already had that and if the UK really did also think it good for the rest of Europe (even if they don't) then staying would have at least retained our influence to achieve those goals whereas leaving means the U.K. has no say or influence in any further EU matters. However we will become the nodding dog at the dinner table rather than the human sat at the table when it comes to policies that affect the continent of Europe of which we are part of and will always be part of, | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone. "Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK? You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing. | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? Because Brexit won't happen?....As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld". Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71 In signs of an intensifying cabinet row over the issue, the Telegraph reported on Sunday that allies of the chancellor had accused Mr Fox of living in a “fantasy land” about the post-Brexit deal. An aide to Mr Hammond refused to comment on the tensions between ministers over the nature of the transition agreement. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71
Hammond has already been slapped down by Theresa May for talking nonsense over the last week or so. The Leave means Leave campaign group has called for him to be sacked as chancellor. I'd be worried about his position if I was him.
Please provide your sources of this information that he has....im not even bothered if its from the Dail Fail....but provide something as other posters do not just your thoughts but credible proof....and wasnt/isnt May on holiday? and Hammond in control of the government?....ah yes strong and stable yet again talk about the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing....again please provide facts about them wanting him sacked
I take it you watch the news as this was reported on all major news channels, sky news, BBC news, channel 4 news, itv news, etc. Yes Theresa May is on holiday but that doesn't stop her leading the country and carrying out some Prime ministerial duties through the avenue of her spokesperson left here in the UK. When the Prime Ministers spokesperson speaks then they are conveying a message to the country directly from the Prime minister and this is what happened when Hammond was slapped down by the Prime minister in recent days. Hammond is only a caretaker leader in effect while the Prime minister is on holiday but the Prime minister can still exert her authority over Hammond through her spokesperson here in the UK while she is on holiday and that's what happened. As for the leave means leave campaign group (which is separate from the government) wanting Hammond sacked as chancellor a quick basic search on Google will provide proof of this.
You provide the facts if you can
As its become abundantly clear now you're incapable of doing a very basic search of Google and you need to be spoon fed everything here is a link for you....
www.express.co.uk/news/politics/835766/brexit-news-latest-eu-philip-hammond-britain-theresa-may-chancellor"This article is simply spin on an opinion held by its Author and his attempts to put two and two together to make 5. The article focuses on two comments made by Hammond and adds inference to his second speech in order to try to describe it as "a humiliating u turn" Throw in a couple "sack him" comments from non entities and suddenly you have a full blown "story" conjoured up in someone's imagination. This is the problem really. Newspapers like that create stories out of nothing for the sole purpose of pushing an agenda. It is pure propaganda - plain and simple. Unfortunately, the people who want to believe the story will just take it at face value and treat it as a validiction of their own opinion. | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? Because Brexit won't happen?....As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld". Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71 In signs of an intensifying cabinet row over the issue, the Telegraph reported on Sunday that allies of the chancellor had accused Mr Fox of living in a “fantasy land” about the post-Brexit deal. An aide to Mr Hammond refused to comment on the tensions between ministers over the nature of the transition agreement. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71
Hammond has already been slapped down by Theresa May for talking nonsense over the last week or so. The Leave means Leave campaign group has called for him to be sacked as chancellor. I'd be worried about his position if I was him.
Please provide your sources of this information that he has....im not even bothered if its from the Dail Fail....but provide something as other posters do not just your thoughts but credible proof....and wasnt/isnt May on holiday? and Hammond in control of the government?....ah yes strong and stable yet again talk about the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing....again please provide facts about them wanting him sacked
I take it you watch the news as this was reported on all major news channels, sky news, BBC news, channel 4 news, itv news, etc. Yes Theresa May is on holiday but that doesn't stop her leading the country and carrying out some Prime ministerial duties through the avenue of her spokesperson left here in the UK. When the Prime Ministers spokesperson speaks then they are conveying a message to the country directly from the Prime minister and this is what happened when Hammond was slapped down by the Prime minister in recent days. Hammond is only a caretaker leader in effect while the Prime minister is on holiday but the Prime minister can still exert her authority over Hammond through her spokesperson here in the UK while she is on holiday and that's what happened. As for the leave means leave campaign group (which is separate from the government) wanting Hammond sacked as chancellor a quick basic search on Google will provide proof of this.
You provide the facts if you can
As its become abundantly clear now you're incapable of doing a very basic search of Google and you need to be spoon fed everything here is a link for you....
www.express.co.uk/news/politics/835766/brexit-news-latest-eu-philip-hammond-britain-theresa-may-chancellor
This article is simply spin on an opinion held by its Author and his attempts to put two and two together to make 5.
The article focuses on two comments made by Hammond and adds inference to his second speech in order to try to describe it as "a humiliating u turn" Throw in a couple "sack him" comments from non entities and suddenly you have a full blown "story" conjoured up in someone's imagination.
This is the problem really. Newspapers like that create stories out of nothing for the sole purpose of pushing an agenda. It is pure propaganda - plain and simple. Unfortunately, the people who want to believe the story will just take it at face value and treat it as a validiction of their own opinion."Aren't all newspaper articles spin on opinions held by their authors? I was asked to provide a link to prove Hammond had been slapped down by the prime minister and the link proves that, when the prime minister intervened the other day and said "free movement will end in march 2019" this was a clear case of Hammond being slapped down and Theresa May exerting her authority over him, not sure how you can interpret it any other way? I was also asked to provide proof of the Leave means Leave campaign group calling for Hammond to be sacked as chancellor, and high profile Leave means leave member and former director general of the British Chambers of commerce John Longworth has called for him to be sacked. It's interesting that earlier in the thread you were saying people should listen to expert opinions and not dismiss them or indeed insult them but now you're calling former director general of the British Chambers of commerce John Longworth a "nonentity", maybe you should take on board your own advice that you gave earlier in the thread? | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy? Because Brexit won't happen?....As Liam Fox said about people like you who think Brexit won't Happen.."your living in a dreamworld". Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71 In signs of an intensifying cabinet row over the issue, the Telegraph reported on Sunday that allies of the chancellor had accused Mr Fox of living in a “fantasy land” about the post-Brexit deal. An aide to Mr Hammond refused to comment on the tensions between ministers over the nature of the transition agreement. https://www.ft.com/content/79132f52-7507-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71
Hammond has already been slapped down by Theresa May for talking nonsense over the last week or so. The Leave means Leave campaign group has called for him to be sacked as chancellor. I'd be worried about his position if I was him.
Please provide your sources of this information that he has....im not even bothered if its from the Dail Fail....but provide something as other posters do not just your thoughts but credible proof....and wasnt/isnt May on holiday? and Hammond in control of the government?....ah yes strong and stable yet again talk about the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing....again please provide facts about them wanting him sacked
I take it you watch the news as this was reported on all major news channels, sky news, BBC news, channel 4 news, itv news, etc. Yes Theresa May is on holiday but that doesn't stop her leading the country and carrying out some Prime ministerial duties through the avenue of her spokesperson left here in the UK. When the Prime Ministers spokesperson speaks then they are conveying a message to the country directly from the Prime minister and this is what happened when Hammond was slapped down by the Prime minister in recent days. Hammond is only a caretaker leader in effect while the Prime minister is on holiday but the Prime minister can still exert her authority over Hammond through her spokesperson here in the UK while she is on holiday and that's what happened. As for the leave means leave campaign group (which is separate from the government) wanting Hammond sacked as chancellor a quick basic search on Google will provide proof of this.
You provide the facts if you can
As its become abundantly clear now you're incapable of doing a very basic search of Google and you need to be spoon fed everything here is a link for you....
www.express.co.uk/news/politics/835766/brexit-news-latest-eu-philip-hammond-britain-theresa-may-chancellor
This article is simply spin on an opinion held by its Author and his attempts to put two and two together to make 5.
The article focuses on two comments made by Hammond and adds inference to his second speech in order to try to describe it as "a humiliating u turn" Throw in a couple "sack him" comments from non entities and suddenly you have a full blown "story" conjoured up in someone's imagination.
This is the problem really. Newspapers like that create stories out of nothing for the sole purpose of pushing an agenda. It is pure propaganda - plain and simple. Unfortunately, the people who want to believe the story will just take it at face value and treat it as a validiction of their own opinion.
Aren't all newspaper articles spin on opinions held by their authors? I was asked to provide a link to prove Hammond had been slapped down by the prime minister and the link proves that, when the prime minister intervened the other day and said "free movement will end in march 2019" this was a clear case of Hammond being slapped down and Theresa May exerting her authority over him, not sure how you can interpret it any other way? I was also asked to provide proof of the Leave means Leave campaign group calling for Hammond to be sacked as chancellor, and high profile Leave means leave member and former director general of the British Chambers of commerce John Longworth has called for him to be sacked. It's interesting that earlier in the thread you were saying people should listen to expert opinions and not dismiss them or indeed insult them but now you're calling former director general of the British Chambers of commerce John Longworth a "nonentity", maybe you should take on board your own advice that you gave earlier in the thread? "Last time im answering you......i read and listen to the article you posted nowhere in it does it say he was given a slapping down from May....quite the opposite i think....he sounded quite desperate to say were leaving then EU without any transitional period as has already been pointed out to you by another poster. And i do have the news channels on most of the day... and again ive not seen this g=big news headlining that Hammonds been slapped down by May.....im pretty sure you make these things fit into your own reality of whats going on....a bit like the 350m pn the side of the bus eh | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone. "See thats the issue, you havent even left yet and Britains economy is suffering. But you ignore that. And your unnamed thinktanks (funny how you never want to reference your sources, almost as if naming them would undermine your argument instead of strengthening it) are just 2 thinktanks that think things might improve. Whereas most independent experts and thinktanks say Britain will be worse off. But then again its not hard to see why you're so uninformed when you read The Express who have this headline: 'Nothing will change' Brexit Project Fear DESTROYED in ONE phrase by European bank chief on an article saying that 1 bank will make small changes to UK staff levels in an article that casually mentions hundreds of other jobs leaving and 20 other banks moving to Germany. Brexit worries destroyed indeed. 1 bank in 21 isnt changing much,lets all rejoice. | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing. "Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship. | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship."Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK? | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK? "No, no he can't! | |||
"Project fear has not and will not turn into reality at all. Does reading stuff like this make you happy?" | |||
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"Here is what a Disappointed Brexiteer had to say that i thought my god ''face palm'' lol '' We did not vote for Brexit so that we UK national would waste their holiday time in a queue at the airport. If Thersea May cannot negotiatefor full holiday access to EU destinations she will be voted out. Another Tory manifesto commitment out the window'' Tut tut so alot of Brexiteers want Tougher border controls to cut down on migrants But these same Brexiteers think the EU should just bow down and let UK nationals through no problem Welcome to the future LMAO Of course Scotland will have a way out of this Brexit mess " Scotland for independence | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't! "Maybe Mercury hasn't seen the thread since he posted? His profile says he was last online 45 mins ago and the comment he made was also 45 mins ago. It may surprise you but not everyone is on here 24/7 at the beck and call to answer other posters. | |||
"Here is what a Disappointed Brexiteer had to say that i thought my god ''face palm'' lol '' We did not vote for Brexit so that we UK national would waste their holiday time in a queue at the airport. If Thersea May cannot negotiatefor full holiday access to EU destinations she will be voted out. Another Tory manifesto commitment out the window'' Tut tut so alot of Brexiteers want Tougher border controls to cut down on migrants But these same Brexiteers think the EU should just bow down and let UK nationals through no problem Welcome to the future LMAO Of course Scotland will have a way out of this Brexit mess Scotland for independence "So now you support the break up of the UK? Only just the other day you seemed to be complaining about it on here until it was pointed out to you its remain parties like the SNP and Plaid cymru who want to remain in the EU but break up the UK. | |||
| |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
Maybe Mercury hasn't seen the thread since he posted? His profile says he was last online 45 mins ago and the comment he made was also 45 mins ago. It may surprise you but not everyone is on here 24/7 at the beck and call to answer other posters. "What difference does that make to him not being able to name any companies? | |||
| |||
"Here is what a Disappointed Brexiteer had to say that i thought my god ''face palm'' lol '' We did not vote for Brexit so that we UK national would waste their holiday time in a queue at the airport. If Thersea May cannot negotiatefor full holiday access to EU destinations she will be voted out. Another Tory manifesto commitment out the window'' Tut tut so alot of Brexiteers want Tougher border controls to cut down on migrants But these same Brexiteers think the EU should just bow down and let UK nationals through no problem Welcome to the future LMAO Of course Scotland will have a way out of this Brexit mess Scotland for independence
So now you support the break up of the UK? Only just the other day you seemed to be complaining about it on here until it was pointed out to you its remain parties like the SNP and Plaid cymru who want to remain in the EU but break up the UK. "No I am not, as I have said before, it is brexiters that are splitting up britain, they just want to be in the eu . | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
Maybe Mercury hasn't seen the thread since he posted? His profile says he was last online 45 mins ago and the comment he made was also 45 mins ago. It may surprise you but not everyone is on here 24/7 at the beck and call to answer other posters.
What difference does that make to him not being able to name any companies? "How can he name any companies if he hasn't seen the thread after he posted and he hasn't seen that he's been asked to name companies and he hasn't been online since he last posted? | |||
"Here is what a Disappointed Brexiteer had to say that i thought my god ''face palm'' lol '' We did not vote for Brexit so that we UK national would waste their holiday time in a queue at the airport. If Thersea May cannot negotiatefor full holiday access to EU destinations she will be voted out. Another Tory manifesto commitment out the window'' Tut tut so alot of Brexiteers want Tougher border controls to cut down on migrants But these same Brexiteers think the EU should just bow down and let UK nationals through no problem Welcome to the future LMAO Of course Scotland will have a way out of this Brexit mess Scotland for independence
So now you support the break up of the UK? Only just the other day you seemed to be complaining about it on here until it was pointed out to you its remain parties like the SNP and Plaid cymru who want to remain in the EU but break up the UK.
ERM i think you are confused i have always supported Scottish independence and i voted YES in 2014 and will do again when the next one comes along very soon when we know how much the Tories will fuck up Brexit lol"Jeez this is like pulling teeth, I didn't actually quote you I quoted Shag tonight's comment so my post was aimed at him not you. | |||
"Here is what a Disappointed Brexiteer had to say that i thought my god ''face palm'' lol '' We did not vote for Brexit so that we UK national would waste their holiday time in a queue at the airport. If Thersea May cannot negotiatefor full holiday access to EU destinations she will be voted out. Another Tory manifesto commitment out the window'' Tut tut so alot of Brexiteers want Tougher border controls to cut down on migrants But these same Brexiteers think the EU should just bow down and let UK nationals through no problem Welcome to the future LMAO Of course Scotland will have a way out of this Brexit mess Scotland for independence
So now you support the break up of the UK? Only just the other day you seemed to be complaining about it on here until it was pointed out to you its remain parties like the SNP and Plaid cymru who want to remain in the EU but break up the UK. No I am not, as I have said before, it is brexiters that are splitting up britain, they just want to be in the eu ."Why post a comment saying "Scotland for independence" with a thumbs up emojii then if you don't support it?  | |||
"Here is what a Disappointed Brexiteer had to say that i thought my god ''face palm'' lol '' We did not vote for Brexit so that we UK national would waste their holiday time in a queue at the airport. If Thersea May cannot negotiatefor full holiday access to EU destinations she will be voted out. Another Tory manifesto commitment out the window'' Tut tut so alot of Brexiteers want Tougher border controls to cut down on migrants But these same Brexiteers think the EU should just bow down and let UK nationals through no problem Welcome to the future LMAO Of course Scotland will have a way out of this Brexit mess Scotland for independence
So now you support the break up of the UK? Only just the other day you seemed to be complaining about it on here until it was pointed out to you its remain parties like the SNP and Plaid cymru who want to remain in the EU but break up the UK. No I am not, as I have said before, it is brexiters that are splitting up britain, they just want to be in the eu .
Why post a comment saying "Scotland for independence" with a thumbs up emojii then if you don't support it? "Maybe just maybe some people in England will see it as a chance to get away from the mess of Brexit and they are all very welcome. | |||
"Here is what a Disappointed Brexiteer had to say that i thought my god ''face palm'' lol '' We did not vote for Brexit so that we UK national would waste their holiday time in a queue at the airport. If Thersea May cannot negotiatefor full holiday access to EU destinations she will be voted out. Another Tory manifesto commitment out the window'' Tut tut so alot of Brexiteers want Tougher border controls to cut down on migrants But these same Brexiteers think the EU should just bow down and let UK nationals through no problem Welcome to the future LMAO Of course Scotland will have a way out of this Brexit mess Scotland for independence
So now you support the break up of the UK? Only just the other day you seemed to be complaining about it on here until it was pointed out to you its remain parties like the SNP and Plaid cymru who want to remain in the EU but break up the UK. No I am not, as I have said before, it is brexiters that are splitting up britain, they just want to be in the eu .
Why post a comment saying "Scotland for independence" with a thumbs up emojii then if you don't support it?
Maybe just maybe some people in England will see it as a chance to get away from the mess of Brexit and they are all very welcome. "That is right, cos it is a sinking ship like titanic. | |||
"Here is what a Disappointed Brexiteer had to say that i thought my god ''face palm'' lol '' We did not vote for Brexit so that we UK national would waste their holiday time in a queue at the airport. If Thersea May cannot negotiatefor full holiday access to EU destinations she will be voted out. Another Tory manifesto commitment out the window'' Tut tut so alot of Brexiteers want Tougher border controls to cut down on migrants But these same Brexiteers think the EU should just bow down and let UK nationals through no problem Welcome to the future LMAO Of course Scotland will have a way out of this Brexit mess Scotland for independence
So now you support the break up of the UK? Only just the other day you seemed to be complaining about it on here until it was pointed out to you its remain parties like the SNP and Plaid cymru who want to remain in the EU but break up the UK. No I am not, as I have said before, it is brexiters that are splitting up britain, they just want to be in the eu .
Why post a comment saying "Scotland for independence" with a thumbs up emojii then if you don't support it?
Maybe just maybe some people in England will see it as a chance to get away from the mess of Brexit and they are all very welcome. "Give over, the SNP are so desperate to break up the UK they will use any excuse for independence, if it wasn't Brexit they be looking for other excuses. | |||
"Here is what a Disappointed Brexiteer had to say that i thought my god ''face palm'' lol '' We did not vote for Brexit so that we UK national would waste their holiday time in a queue at the airport. If Thersea May cannot negotiatefor full holiday access to EU destinations she will be voted out. Another Tory manifesto commitment out the window'' Tut tut so alot of Brexiteers want Tougher border controls to cut down on migrants But these same Brexiteers think the EU should just bow down and let UK nationals through no problem Welcome to the future LMAO Of course Scotland will have a way out of this Brexit mess Scotland for independence
So now you support the break up of the UK? Only just the other day you seemed to be complaining about it on here until it was pointed out to you its remain parties like the SNP and Plaid cymru who want to remain in the EU but break up the UK. No I am not, as I have said before, it is brexiters that are splitting up britain, they just want to be in the eu .
Why post a comment saying "Scotland for independence" with a thumbs up emojii then if you don't support it?
Maybe just maybe some people in England will see it as a chance to get away from the mess of Brexit and they are all very welcome. That is right, cos it is a sinking ship like titanic."You do support it, you don't support it, you do support it, you don't support it, you're like a yo yo on here with the SNP. | |||
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" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship."Firstly, this is not about taking manufacturing out of the UK, it is about imported "tariff free" products being cheaper. Notwithstanding this, I would like to see your sources to suggest that outsourced manufacturing has "largely failed." | |||
"Here is what a Disappointed Brexiteer had to say that i thought my god ''face palm'' lol '' We did not vote for Brexit so that we UK national would waste their holiday time in a queue at the airport. If Thersea May cannot negotiatefor full holiday access to EU destinations she will be voted out. Another Tory manifesto commitment out the window'' Tut tut so alot of Brexiteers want Tougher border controls to cut down on migrants But these same Brexiteers think the EU should just bow down and let UK nationals through no problem Welcome to the future LMAO Of course Scotland will have a way out of this Brexit mess Scotland for independence
So now you support the break up of the UK? Only just the other day you seemed to be complaining about it on here until it was pointed out to you its remain parties like the SNP and Plaid cymru who want to remain in the EU but break up the UK. No I am not, as I have said before, it is brexiters that are splitting up britain, they just want to be in the eu .
Why post a comment saying "Scotland for independence" with a thumbs up emojii then if you don't support it?
Maybe just maybe some people in England will see it as a chance to get away from the mess of Brexit and they are all very welcome. That is right, cos it is a sinking ship like titanic.
You do support it, you don't support it, you do support it, you don't support it, you're like a yo yo on here with the SNP. "Last time i checked people are free to change their minds Oh and dont you know the independence movement is far bigger than SNP and the more everyone hears that brexit is going to be a big fuck up the more people will be more openminded to Scottish independence The ''Journey to YES'' vids on youtube prove that Scotland didnt vote for brexit so Scotland should not suffer it | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
Maybe Mercury hasn't seen the thread since he posted? His profile says he was last online 45 mins ago and the comment he made was also 45 mins ago. It may surprise you but not everyone is on here 24/7 at the beck and call to answer other posters.
What difference does that make to him not being able to name any companies?
How can he name any companies if he hasn't seen the thread after he posted and he hasn't seen that he's been asked to name companies and he hasn't been online since he last posted? "He cant name any if there aren't any! | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Firstly, this is not about taking manufacturing out of the UK, it is about imported "tariff free" products being cheaper.
Notwithstanding this, I would like to see your sources to suggest that outsourced manufacturing has "largely failed." "You're not allowed to post until he's back online, otherwise Centaur will tell you off! | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Firstly, this is not about taking manufacturing out of the UK, it is about imported "tariff free" products being cheaper.
Notwithstanding this, I would like to see your sources to suggest that outsourced manufacturing has "largely failed." "So now you're saying prices in the shops will be reduced after Brexit for UK consumers and UK consumers will be better off with more disposable income as a result because 'tariff free' products from the rest of the world will be cheaper as we establish mew trade deals. | |||
"Here is what a Disappointed Brexiteer had to say that i thought my god ''face palm'' lol '' We did not vote for Brexit so that we UK national would waste their holiday time in a queue at the airport. If Thersea May cannot negotiatefor full holiday access to EU destinations she will be voted out. Another Tory manifesto commitment out the window'' Tut tut so alot of Brexiteers want Tougher border controls to cut down on migrants But these same Brexiteers think the EU should just bow down and let UK nationals through no problem Welcome to the future LMAO Of course Scotland will have a way out of this Brexit mess Scotland for independence
So now you support the break up of the UK? Only just the other day you seemed to be complaining about it on here until it was pointed out to you its remain parties like the SNP and Plaid cymru who want to remain in the EU but break up the UK. No I am not, as I have said before, it is brexiters that are splitting up britain, they just want to be in the eu .
Why post a comment saying "Scotland for independence" with a thumbs up emojii then if you don't support it?
Maybe just maybe some people in England will see it as a chance to get away from the mess of Brexit and they are all very welcome. That is right, cos it is a sinking ship like titanic.
You do support it, you don't support it, you do support it, you don't support it, you're like a yo yo on here with the SNP.
Last time i checked people are free to change their minds
Oh and dont you know the independence movement is far bigger than SNP and the more everyone hears that brexit is going to be a big fuck up the more people will be more openminded to Scottish independence
The ''Journey to YES'' vids on youtube prove that
Scotland didnt vote for brexit so Scotland should not suffer it
"The EU referendum wasn't a Scottish vote, it was a UK wide vote. Scotland voted to remain in the UK and then the UK as a whole voted for Brexit. | |||
"Here is what a Disappointed Brexiteer had to say that i thought my god ''face palm'' lol '' We did not vote for Brexit so that we UK national would waste their holiday time in a queue at the airport. If Thersea May cannot negotiatefor full holiday access to EU destinations she will be voted out. Another Tory manifesto commitment out the window'' Tut tut so alot of Brexiteers want Tougher border controls to cut down on migrants But these same Brexiteers think the EU should just bow down and let UK nationals through no problem Welcome to the future LMAO Of course Scotland will have a way out of this Brexit mess Scotland for independence
So now you support the break up of the UK? Only just the other day you seemed to be complaining about it on here until it was pointed out to you its remain parties like the SNP and Plaid cymru who want to remain in the EU but break up the UK. No I am not, as I have said before, it is brexiters that are splitting up britain, they just want to be in the eu .
Why post a comment saying "Scotland for independence" with a thumbs up emojii then if you don't support it?
Maybe just maybe some people in England will see it as a chance to get away from the mess of Brexit and they are all very welcome. That is right, cos it is a sinking ship like titanic.
You do support it, you don't support it, you do support it, you don't support it, you're like a yo yo on here with the SNP.
Last time i checked people are free to change their minds
Oh and dont you know the independence movement is far bigger than SNP and the more everyone hears that brexit is going to be a big fuck up the more people will be more openminded to Scottish independence
The ''Journey to YES'' vids on youtube prove that
Scotland didnt vote for brexit so Scotland should not suffer it
The EU referendum wasn't a Scottish vote, it was a UK wide vote. Scotland voted to remain in the UK and then the UK as a whole voted for Brexit. "You're a simple critter | |||
 | |||
"Here is what a Disappointed Brexiteer had to say that i thought my god ''face palm'' lol '' We did not vote for Brexit so that we UK national would waste their holiday time in a queue at the airport. If Thersea May cannot negotiatefor full holiday access to EU destinations she will be voted out. Another Tory manifesto commitment out the window'' Tut tut so alot of Brexiteers want Tougher border controls to cut down on migrants But these same Brexiteers think the EU should just bow down and let UK nationals through no problem Welcome to the future LMAO Of course Scotland will have a way out of this Brexit mess Scotland for independence
So now you support the break up of the UK? Only just the other day you seemed to be complaining about it on here until it was pointed out to you its remain parties like the SNP and Plaid cymru who want to remain in the EU but break up the UK. No I am not, as I have said before, it is brexiters that are splitting up britain, they just want to be in the eu .
Why post a comment saying "Scotland for independence" with a thumbs up emojii then if you don't support it?
Maybe just maybe some people in England will see it as a chance to get away from the mess of Brexit and they are all very welcome. That is right, cos it is a sinking ship like titanic.
You do support it, you don't support it, you do support it, you don't support it, you're like a yo yo on here with the SNP.
Last time i checked people are free to change their minds
Oh and dont you know the independence movement is far bigger than SNP and the more everyone hears that brexit is going to be a big fuck up the more people will be more openminded to Scottish independence
The ''Journey to YES'' vids on youtube prove that
Scotland didnt vote for brexit so Scotland should not suffer it
The EU referendum wasn't a Scottish vote, it was a UK wide vote. Scotland voted to remain in the UK and then the UK as a whole voted for Brexit.
You're a simple critter"That is right and scotland should not suffer, that is the difference between the eu and great britain, in britain the one that have the final say is the largest country with the most people, in eu it is alot better, cos lets say germany and sweden that are big countrys vote for a thing, then if denmark that is a small say no, it wont go through, that is democracy. | |||
"U.K. is like the disruptive employee who can't be sacked, but will be let go with alacrity if they resign. The 27 will be united in their desire to let U.K. go. There will be no invitation to stay without agreeing to Shenghen, the Euro and losing the rebate. Prepare for the fallout. There will be no political party prepared to defy the will of the people. " | |||
"Here is what a Disappointed Brexiteer had to say that i thought my god ''face palm'' lol '' We did not vote for Brexit so that we UK national would waste their holiday time in a queue at the airport. If Thersea May cannot negotiatefor full holiday access to EU destinations she will be voted out. Another Tory manifesto commitment out the window'' Tut tut so alot of Brexiteers want Tougher border controls to cut down on migrants But these same Brexiteers think the EU should just bow down and let UK nationals through no problem Welcome to the future LMAO Of course Scotland will have a way out of this Brexit mess Scotland for independence
So now you support the break up of the UK? Only just the other day you seemed to be complaining about it on here until it was pointed out to you its remain parties like the SNP and Plaid cymru who want to remain in the EU but break up the UK. No I am not, as I have said before, it is brexiters that are splitting up britain, they just want to be in the eu .
Why post a comment saying "Scotland for independence" with a thumbs up emojii then if you don't support it?
Maybe just maybe some people in England will see it as a chance to get away from the mess of Brexit and they are all very welcome. That is right, cos it is a sinking ship like titanic.
You do support it, you don't support it, you do support it, you don't support it, you're like a yo yo on here with the SNP.
Last time i checked people are free to change their minds
Oh and dont you know the independence movement is far bigger than SNP and the more everyone hears that brexit is going to be a big fuck up the more people will be more openminded to Scottish independence
The ''Journey to YES'' vids on youtube prove that
Scotland didnt vote for brexit so Scotland should not suffer it
The EU referendum wasn't a Scottish vote, it was a UK wide vote. Scotland voted to remain in the UK and then the UK as a whole voted for Brexit.
You're a simple critter"It has to be spelled out in the simplest of terms to some people on here as they clearly don't get it. | |||
"Here is what a Disappointed Brexiteer had to say that i thought my god ''face palm'' lol '' We did not vote for Brexit so that we UK national would waste their holiday time in a queue at the airport. If Thersea May cannot negotiatefor full holiday access to EU destinations she will be voted out. Another Tory manifesto commitment out the window'' Tut tut so alot of Brexiteers want Tougher border controls to cut down on migrants But these same Brexiteers think the EU should just bow down and let UK nationals through no problem Welcome to the future LMAO Of course Scotland will have a way out of this Brexit mess Scotland for independence
So now you support the break up of the UK? Only just the other day you seemed to be complaining about it on here until it was pointed out to you its remain parties like the SNP and Plaid cymru who want to remain in the EU but break up the UK. No I am not, as I have said before, it is brexiters that are splitting up britain, they just want to be in the eu .
Why post a comment saying "Scotland for independence" with a thumbs up emojii then if you don't support it?
Maybe just maybe some people in England will see it as a chance to get away from the mess of Brexit and they are all very welcome. That is right, cos it is a sinking ship like titanic.
You do support it, you don't support it, you do support it, you don't support it, you're like a yo yo on here with the SNP.
Last time i checked people are free to change their minds
Oh and dont you know the independence movement is far bigger than SNP and the more everyone hears that brexit is going to be a big fuck up the more people will be more openminded to Scottish independence
The ''Journey to YES'' vids on youtube prove that
Scotland didnt vote for brexit so Scotland should not suffer it
The EU referendum wasn't a Scottish vote, it was a UK wide vote. Scotland voted to remain in the UK and then the UK as a whole voted for Brexit.
You're a simple critterThat is right and scotland should not suffer, that is the difference between the eu and great britain, in britain the one that have the final say is the largest country with the most people, in eu it is alot better, cos lets say germany and sweden that are big countrys vote for a thing, then if denmark that is a small say no, it wont go through, that is democracy."Only that's not exactly true is it. Greece voted against austerity but had austerity imposed onto it by and large from Germany within the EU. | |||
"Here is what a Disappointed Brexiteer had to say that i thought my god ''face palm'' lol '' We did not vote for Brexit so that we UK national would waste their holiday time in a queue at the airport. If Thersea May cannot negotiatefor full holiday access to EU destinations she will be voted out. Another Tory manifesto commitment out the window'' Tut tut so alot of Brexiteers want Tougher border controls to cut down on migrants But these same Brexiteers think the EU should just bow down and let UK nationals through no problem Welcome to the future LMAO Of course Scotland will have a way out of this Brexit mess Scotland for independence
So now you support the break up of the UK? Only just the other day you seemed to be complaining about it on here until it was pointed out to you its remain parties like the SNP and Plaid cymru who want to remain in the EU but break up the UK. No I am not, as I have said before, it is brexiters that are splitting up britain, they just want to be in the eu .
Why post a comment saying "Scotland for independence" with a thumbs up emojii then if you don't support it?
Maybe just maybe some people in England will see it as a chance to get away from the mess of Brexit and they are all very welcome. That is right, cos it is a sinking ship like titanic.
You do support it, you don't support it, you do support it, you don't support it, you're like a yo yo on here with the SNP.
Last time i checked people are free to change their minds
Oh and dont you know the independence movement is far bigger than SNP and the more everyone hears that brexit is going to be a big fuck up the more people will be more openminded to Scottish independence
The ''Journey to YES'' vids on youtube prove that
Scotland didnt vote for brexit so Scotland should not suffer it
The EU referendum wasn't a Scottish vote, it was a UK wide vote. Scotland voted to remain in the UK and then the UK as a whole voted for Brexit.
You're a simple critter
It has to be spelled out in the simplest of terms to some people on here as they clearly don't get it. "I was being sarcastic. Nuance has never been a strong point of yours though has it? | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Firstly, this is not about taking manufacturing out of the UK, it is about imported "tariff free" products being cheaper.
Notwithstanding this, I would like to see your sources to suggest that outsourced manufacturing has "largely failed."
So now you're saying prices in the shops will be reduced after Brexit for UK consumers and UK consumers will be better off with more disposable income as a result because 'tariff free' products from the rest of the world will be cheaper as we establish mew trade deals. "There well could be cheaper goods if manufacturing is outsourced to india, bangladesh, new industrialising parts of africa and latin america. Though given the transport infastructure there might be some additional cost due to transport costs. It wont help all those people in this country with low wage skills will it though, and I doubt they can afford to shoulder tge cost of upskilling themselves as the givernments seems to want. Try telling all those people voted out to protect their jobs that their jobs are now at equal or greater risk of outsourcing... Oh and then as in the case of india and china, some nations will want visa limitations and restrictions easing.... | |||
| |||
"Here is what a Disappointed Brexiteer had to say that i thought my god ''face palm'' lol '' We did not vote for Brexit so that we UK national would waste their holiday time in a queue at the airport. If Thersea May cannot negotiatefor full holiday access to EU destinations she will be voted out. Another Tory manifesto commitment out the window'' Tut tut so alot of Brexiteers want Tougher border controls to cut down on migrants But these same Brexiteers think the EU should just bow down and let UK nationals through no problem Welcome to the future LMAO Of course Scotland will have a way out of this Brexit mess Scotland for independence
So now you support the break up of the UK? Only just the other day you seemed to be complaining about it on here until it was pointed out to you its remain parties like the SNP and Plaid cymru who want to remain in the EU but break up the UK. No I am not, as I have said before, it is brexiters that are splitting up britain, they just want to be in the eu .
Why post a comment saying "Scotland for independence" with a thumbs up emojii then if you don't support it?
Maybe just maybe some people in England will see it as a chance to get away from the mess of Brexit and they are all very welcome. That is right, cos it is a sinking ship like titanic.
You do support it, you don't support it, you do support it, you don't support it, you're like a yo yo on here with the SNP.
Last time i checked people are free to change their minds
Oh and dont you know the independence movement is far bigger than SNP and the more everyone hears that brexit is going to be a big fuck up the more people will be more openminded to Scottish independence
The ''Journey to YES'' vids on youtube prove that
Scotland didnt vote for brexit so Scotland should not suffer it
The EU referendum wasn't a Scottish vote, it was a UK wide vote. Scotland voted to remain in the UK and then the UK as a whole voted for Brexit. "So let me get this right are you saying 62% majority of Scottish remain voters should just be ignored ? Scotland is not a region its a country and it didnt vote for Brexit Also yes you are correct Scotland voted to remain in the UK in 2014 but you seem to be misleading people as back in 2014 Scotland was told if they voted no then the EU would be safe in the UK now its not safe in the UK so are you really saying people should be denied their right to change their minds ? Put it this way the UK is not making the case for the UK union and this so called family of nations when the UK government do not need to consult or bring in the Scottish government into the brexit talks so says the supreme court but here is the thing there is nothing stopping the UK government from doing that correct ? But instead the UK government are acting like dictators telling countries that didnt vote for brexit that whether they like it or not they are coming out of the EU against there will and ignoring the majority vote Now people in Scotland are not daft we can see Brexit is going to be bad and Scotland must be allowed to decide on our future and that will be when the final brexit deal is known then the people in Scotland will decide on if they agree on brexit and go along with the mess of that or prefer Scottish independence and join the EU as a member state and people living in England that is fearing on what is coming after brexit happens are more than welcome to come live in Scotland as we dont give a shit where you are born if you choose to call Scotland your home then by god your fucking Scottish and we have amazing banter. | |||
"U.K. is like the disruptive employee who can't be sacked, but will be let go with alacrity if they resign. The 27 will be united in their desire to let U.K. go. There will be no invitation to stay without agreeing to Shenghen, the Euro and losing the rebate. Prepare for the fallout. There will be no political party prepared to defy the will of the people. "You agree we will stay in then. Also the EU can't stop us if we decide we want to stay in and withdraw our article 50 notification. | |||
"U.K. is like the disruptive employee who can't be sacked, but will be let go with alacrity if they resign. The 27 will be united in their desire to let U.K. go. There will be no invitation to stay without agreeing to Shenghen, the Euro and losing the rebate. Prepare for the fallout. There will be no political party prepared to defy the will of the people.
You agree we will stay in then.
Also the EU can't stop us if we decide we want to stay in and withdraw our article 50 notification."He was saying we will leave and we have already handed in our notice to resign from the EU. Further more if a condition of remaining in was to accept the Shengen and the Euro and lose our rebate then the vote to leave would be significantly higher than it was in the referendum last year. | |||
| |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't! "And now I can see why people are deserting this forum!!!! My alarm is permanently set for 4.30am, so I can go out and create wealth, therefore early to bed and early to rise! I'm not here 24/7 and neither would I want to be. I have personal experience of failed outsourcing. I work in the sector, and during the 1990s, was involved with three companies, where outsourcing to India and China didn't work. Prices were cheaper but the quality and failure rate was appalling. It led to these companies bringing back some of the production. Concerns about poor health and safety practices were also a factor. Since then, some manufacturing has gone back, where it is more strictly controlled in purpose built factories and with a trained workforce, hence JCBs being built in India and Range Rovers in China. This taps into both markets and a cheaper labour force. UK manufacturing is more highly specialised, and the sectors that I work in, are still buoyant. | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
And now I can see why people are deserting this forum!!!!
My alarm is permanently set for 4.30am, so I can go out and create wealth, therefore early to bed and early to rise! I'm not here 24/7 and neither would I want to be.
I have personal experience of failed outsourcing. I work in the sector, and during the 1990s, was involved with three companies, where outsourcing to India and China didn't work. Prices were cheaper but the quality and failure rate was appalling. It led to these companies bringing back some of the production. Concerns about poor health and safety practices were also a factor.
Since then, some manufacturing has gone back, where it is more strictly controlled in purpose built factories and with a trained workforce, hence JCBs being built in India and Range Rovers in China. This taps into both markets and a cheaper labour force.
UK manufacturing is more highly specialised, and the sectors that I work in, are still buoyant. "You still didn't name a single company that moved production from the UK, to another EU country and back again! | |||
"Here is what a Disappointed Brexiteer had to say that i thought my god ''face palm'' lol '' We did not vote for Brexit so that we UK national would waste their holiday time in a queue at the airport. If Thersea May cannot negotiatefor full holiday access to EU destinations she will be voted out. Another Tory manifesto commitment out the window'' Tut tut so alot of Brexiteers want Tougher border controls to cut down on migrants But these same Brexiteers think the EU should just bow down and let UK nationals through no problem Welcome to the future LMAO Of course Scotland will have a way out of this Brexit mess Scotland for independence
So now you support the break up of the UK? Only just the other day you seemed to be complaining about it on here until it was pointed out to you its remain parties like the SNP and Plaid cymru who want to remain in the EU but break up the UK. No I am not, as I have said before, it is brexiters that are splitting up britain, they just want to be in the eu .
Why post a comment saying "Scotland for independence" with a thumbs up emojii then if you don't support it?
Maybe just maybe some people in England will see it as a chance to get away from the mess of Brexit and they are all very welcome. That is right, cos it is a sinking ship like titanic.
You do support it, you don't support it, you do support it, you don't support it, you're like a yo yo on here with the SNP.
Last time i checked people are free to change their minds
Oh and dont you know the independence movement is far bigger than SNP and the more everyone hears that brexit is going to be a big fuck up the more people will be more openminded to Scottish independence
The ''Journey to YES'' vids on youtube prove that
Scotland didnt vote for brexit so Scotland should not suffer it
The EU referendum wasn't a Scottish vote, it was a UK wide vote. Scotland voted to remain in the UK and then the UK as a whole voted for Brexit.
You're a simple critterThat is right and scotland should not suffer, that is the difference between the eu and great britain, in britain the one that have the final say is the largest country with the most people, in eu it is alot better, cos lets say germany and sweden that are big countrys vote for a thing, then if denmark that is a small say no, it wont go through, that is democracy.
Only that's not exactly true is it. Greece voted against austerity but had austerity imposed onto it by and large from Germany within the EU. "The system works 98% of the time. | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
And now I can see why people are deserting this forum!!!!
My alarm is permanently set for 4.30am, so I can go out and create wealth, therefore early to bed and early to rise! I'm not here 24/7 and neither would I want to be.
I have personal experience of failed outsourcing. I work in the sector, and during the 1990s, was involved with three companies, where outsourcing to India and China didn't work. Prices were cheaper but the quality and failure rate was appalling. It led to these companies bringing back some of the production. Concerns about poor health and safety practices were also a factor.
Since then, some manufacturing has gone back, where it is more strictly controlled in purpose built factories and with a trained workforce, hence JCBs being built in India and Range Rovers in China. This taps into both markets and a cheaper labour force.
UK manufacturing is more highly specialised, and the sectors that I work in, are still buoyant.
You still didn't name a single company that moved production from the UK, to another EU country and back again! "Since when has the EU been in the sub-continent? You need to go back and read the post properly. Then read up on the concept of "reshoring". Then maybe have a look at what Cadburys and Maclaren are doing. | |||
 | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
And now I can see why people are deserting this forum!!!!
My alarm is permanently set for 4.30am, so I can go out and create wealth, therefore early to bed and early to rise! I'm not here 24/7 and neither would I want to be.
I have personal experience of failed outsourcing. I work in the sector, and during the 1990s, was involved with three companies, where outsourcing to India and China didn't work. Prices were cheaper but the quality and failure rate was appalling. It led to these companies bringing back some of the production. Concerns about poor health and safety practices were also a factor.
Since then, some manufacturing has gone back, where it is more strictly controlled in purpose built factories and with a trained workforce, hence JCBs being built in India and Range Rovers in China. This taps into both markets and a cheaper labour force.
UK manufacturing is more highly specialised, and the sectors that I work in, are still buoyant. "Im afraid you still never answered the question...but hey ho i suppose i never expected you too....a few companies as you put is not lots as you said!!!....im beginning to think smoke and mirrors.... I think your maybe talking about call centres for banks etc etc....and as far as im aware none have come back...but again id still be interested if you could name these LOTS of companies that have returned to either the UK or EU after leaving...is this another case of Centaurismn...were your just making things up as you go along...because you know what i dont believe you and i live in the same area as you i read the same news as you we have the same local radio/tv stations as you As for you mentioning JCB...Range Rover...surely they defeas the argument your trying to put forward not very successfully tbh... PS id be happy to see a list of all these companies that have returned to the UK or EU..and i'd gladly offer you an apology...but for now im calling it bullshit | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
And now I can see why people are deserting this forum!!!!
My alarm is permanently set for 4.30am, so I can go out and create wealth, therefore early to bed and early to rise! I'm not here 24/7 and neither would I want to be.
I have personal experience of failed outsourcing. I work in the sector, and during the 1990s, was involved with three companies, where outsourcing to India and China didn't work. Prices were cheaper but the quality and failure rate was appalling. It led to these companies bringing back some of the production. Concerns about poor health and safety practices were also a factor.
Since then, some manufacturing has gone back, where it is more strictly controlled in purpose built factories and with a trained workforce, hence JCBs being built in India and Range Rovers in China. This taps into both markets and a cheaper labour force.
UK manufacturing is more highly specialised, and the sectors that I work in, are still buoyant.
You still didn't name a single company that moved production from the UK, to another EU country and back again!
Since when has the EU been in the sub-continent? You need to go back and read the post properly.
Then read up on the concept of "reshoring".
Then maybe have a look at what Cadburys and Maclaren are doing.
"Cadburys are about to move there process plant from York to Poland with the loss of about 300 jobs...so im not getting your pointon Cadbury...as for Maclaren ive not heard anything about them only that Ron Dennis is not CEO anymore | |||
"I'm sure manufacturing standards in China and India have improved exponentially since the 90s "Yes they have. Instead of just ordering what they want from unregulated suppliers, they are now investing in purpose built factories, proper training and tooling and close supervision. | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
And now I can see why people are deserting this forum!!!!
My alarm is permanently set for 4.30am, so I can go out and create wealth, therefore early to bed and early to rise! I'm not here 24/7 and neither would I want to be.
I have personal experience of failed outsourcing. I work in the sector, and during the 1990s, was involved with three companies, where outsourcing to India and China didn't work. Prices were cheaper but the quality and failure rate was appalling. It led to these companies bringing back some of the production. Concerns about poor health and safety practices were also a factor.
Since then, some manufacturing has gone back, where it is more strictly controlled in purpose built factories and with a trained workforce, hence JCBs being built in India and Range Rovers in China. This taps into both markets and a cheaper labour force.
UK manufacturing is more highly specialised, and the sectors that I work in, are still buoyant.
You still didn't name a single company that moved production from the UK, to another EU country and back again!
Since when has the EU been in the sub-continent? You need to go back and read the post properly.
Then read up on the concept of "reshoring".
Then maybe have a look at what Cadburys and Maclaren are doing.
Cadburys are about to move there process plant from York to Poland with the loss of about 300 jobs...so im not getting your pointon Cadbury...as for Maclaren ive not heard anything about them only that Ron Dennis is not CEO anymore "Oh dear! It's Nestles in York and not Cadburys. Dairy Milk production is returning to the UK from Poland. Carbon fibre technology for Mclaren is returning to the UK from Austria. Think you need to perhaps do more research instead of trying to shoot people down, just because they don't fit your agenda. Again, look up the concept of "Reshoring". | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
And now I can see why people are deserting this forum!!!!
My alarm is permanently set for 4.30am, so I can go out and create wealth, therefore early to bed and early to rise! I'm not here 24/7 and neither would I want to be.
I have personal experience of failed outsourcing. I work in the sector, and during the 1990s, was involved with three companies, where outsourcing to India and China didn't work. Prices were cheaper but the quality and failure rate was appalling. It led to these companies bringing back some of the production. Concerns about poor health and safety practices were also a factor.
Since then, some manufacturing has gone back, where it is more strictly controlled in purpose built factories and with a trained workforce, hence JCBs being built in India and Range Rovers in China. This taps into both markets and a cheaper labour force.
UK manufacturing is more highly specialised, and the sectors that I work in, are still buoyant.
You still didn't name a single company that moved production from the UK, to another EU country and back again!
Since when has the EU been in the sub-continent? You need to go back and read the post properly.
Then read up on the concept of "reshoring".
Then maybe have a look at what Cadburys and Maclaren are doing.
Cadburys are about to move there process plant from York to Poland with the loss of about 300 jobs...so im not getting your pointon Cadbury...as for Maclaren ive not heard anything about them only that Ron Dennis is not CEO anymore
Oh dear! It's Nestles in York and not Cadburys.
Dairy Milk production is returning to the UK from Poland.
Carbon fibre technology for Mclaren is returning to the UK from Austria.
Think you need to perhaps do more research instead of trying to shoot people down, just because they don't fit your agenda.
Again, look up the concept of "Reshoring"."Quote EU is not the Sub continent | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
And now I can see why people are deserting this forum!!!!
My alarm is permanently set for 4.30am, so I can go out and create wealth, therefore early to bed and early to rise! I'm not here 24/7 and neither would I want to be.
I have personal experience of failed outsourcing. I work in the sector, and during the 1990s, was involved with three companies, where outsourcing to India and China didn't work. Prices were cheaper but the quality and failure rate was appalling. It led to these companies bringing back some of the production. Concerns about poor health and safety practices were also a factor.
Since then, some manufacturing has gone back, where it is more strictly controlled in purpose built factories and with a trained workforce, hence JCBs being built in India and Range Rovers in China. This taps into both markets and a cheaper labour force.
UK manufacturing is more highly specialised, and the sectors that I work in, are still buoyant.
You still didn't name a single company that moved production from the UK, to another EU country and back again!
Since when has the EU been in the sub-continent? You need to go back and read the post properly.
Then read up on the concept of "reshoring".
Then maybe have a look at what Cadburys and Maclaren are doing.
Cadburys are about to move there process plant from York to Poland with the loss of about 300 jobs...so im not getting your pointon Cadbury...as for Maclaren ive not heard anything about them only that Ron Dennis is not CEO anymore
Oh dear! It's Nestles in York and not Cadburys.
Dairy Milk production is returning to the UK from Poland.
Carbon fibre technology for Mclaren is returning to the UK from Austria.
Think you need to perhaps do more research instead of trying to shoot people down, just because they don't fit your agenda.
Again, look up the concept of "Reshoring".
Quote EU is not the Sub continent "Those are examples of EU to UK for CLCC, as he couldn't do his research either. Let's try Clark's shoes and Elite Electronics, sub continent to the UK. | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
And now I can see why people are deserting this forum!!!!
My alarm is permanently set for 4.30am, so I can go out and create wealth, therefore early to bed and early to rise! I'm not here 24/7 and neither would I want to be.
I have personal experience of failed outsourcing. I work in the sector, and during the 1990s, was involved with three companies, where outsourcing to India and China didn't work. Prices were cheaper but the quality and failure rate was appalling. It led to these companies bringing back some of the production. Concerns about poor health and safety practices were also a factor.
Since then, some manufacturing has gone back, where it is more strictly controlled in purpose built factories and with a trained workforce, hence JCBs being built in India and Range Rovers in China. This taps into both markets and a cheaper labour force.
UK manufacturing is more highly specialised, and the sectors that I work in, are still buoyant.
You still didn't name a single company that moved production from the UK, to another EU country and back again!
Since when has the EU been in the sub-continent? You need to go back and read the post properly.
Then read up on the concept of "reshoring".
Then maybe have a look at what Cadburys and Maclaren are doing.
Cadburys are about to move there process plant from York to Poland with the loss of about 300 jobs...so im not getting your pointon Cadbury...as for Maclaren ive not heard anything about them only that Ron Dennis is not CEO anymore
Oh dear! It's Nestles in York and not Cadburys.
Dairy Milk production is returning to the UK from Poland.
Carbon fibre technology for Mclaren is returning to the UK from Austria.
Think you need to perhaps do more research instead of trying to shoot people down, just because they don't fit your agenda.
Again, look up the concept of "Reshoring".
Quote EU is not the Sub continent
Those are examples of EU to UK for CLCC, as he couldn't do his research either.
Let's try Clark's shoes and Elite Electronics, sub continent to the UK."More smoke and mirrors....they never relocated in the 1st place....they just closed the factory down and got 3rd parties to make them. The reason there coming back is because of supply chain issues...and its only some pf production not all!!! Clarks Shoes The new plant is part of a shift by Clarks to bring some manufacturing back in-house. The company is using robot technology to revolutionise the production process. It aims to reduce the time it takes from designing products to getting them into stores from as long as 72 weeks to just 13. Chief executive Mike Shearwood said: “This is about making the business as flexible as possible.” The new plant in Street, where Clarks began in 1825, will make up to 300,000 pairs of desert boots a year. Shearwood admits that is a drop in the ocean compared with the 53 million pairs of shoes it sells annually. But he denied it was a “vanity thing”, with plans for more of it own plants here over the next five years, as well as in the US, Europe and Asia. Elite Electronics Im looking at what seems to be a company looking at helping firms to return to the UK from all over the world not just the Sub continent. See link below..if its not the same company id be glad to see your link to them...and as a footnote 2 companies dont make up a LOT
http://www.elitees.com/press/ebooks/elite_reshoring_pt1.pdf | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
And now I can see why people are deserting this forum!!!!
My alarm is permanently set for 4.30am, so I can go out and create wealth, therefore early to bed and early to rise! I'm not here 24/7 and neither would I want to be.
I have personal experience of failed outsourcing. I work in the sector, and during the 1990s, was involved with three companies, where outsourcing to India and China didn't work. Prices were cheaper but the quality and failure rate was appalling. It led to these companies bringing back some of the production. Concerns about poor health and safety practices were also a factor.
Since then, some manufacturing has gone back, where it is more strictly controlled in purpose built factories and with a trained workforce, hence JCBs being built in India and Range Rovers in China. This taps into both markets and a cheaper labour force.
UK manufacturing is more highly specialised, and the sectors that I work in, are still buoyant.
You still didn't name a single company that moved production from the UK, to another EU country and back again!
Since when has the EU been in the sub-continent? You need to go back and read the post properly.
Then read up on the concept of "reshoring".
Then maybe have a look at what Cadburys and Maclaren are doing.
Cadburys are about to move there process plant from York to Poland with the loss of about 300 jobs...so im not getting your pointon Cadbury...as for Maclaren ive not heard anything about them only that Ron Dennis is not CEO anymore
Oh dear! It's Nestles in York and not Cadburys.
Dairy Milk production is returning to the UK from Poland.
Carbon fibre technology for Mclaren is returning to the UK from Austria.
Think you need to perhaps do more research instead of trying to shoot people down, just because they don't fit your agenda.
Again, look up the concept of "Reshoring".
Quote EU is not the Sub continent
Those are examples of EU to UK for CLCC, as he couldn't do his research either.
Let's try Clark's shoes and Elite Electronics, sub continent to the UK."Elite Electronics Supply chain issues again and all done both of what you quote were post brexit referendum....interesting to read the companies CEO thoughts on customs clearances though lol Nine years ago, Elite Electronic Systems decided to source cables from abroad that it had previously made at its base in Enniskillen, Northern Ireland. While the plan started well, it soon ran into problems. Then the recession hit, highlighting the pitfalls of long supply chains, says director Jonathan Balfour. “Quality was an issue and then we had a recession,” he said. “Our Chinese supplier had just received an order which would normally take more than three months to ship. We tried to stop it but – miraculously – it was on a ship within two weeks Unable to halt the consignment, Elite ended up sitting on 20 months of stock, instead of the normal month or two, hitting the company’s cash flow just as the financial crisis was at its worst. Elite, whose customers include Caterpillar, Chubb and Tyco, also says the sheer physical distance of having production on the other side of the world causes difficulties. “We seemed to have to go out there every time there was a problem, if we wanted to make a change or prototype,” Mr Balfour said, adding that travel costs soon racked up. “Also, it’s very difficult to figure out what a customer wants in 20 weeks’ time [the normal delivery period] and a product arriving a week or two late could leave us sitting on months of stock.” Logistics simply exacerbated Elite’s troubles, he added. “You’ve got to find a ship, get the product on to it, get it through customs – we could have consignments sitting in a port for weeks… It was tiring.” Having invested in more efficient equipment at its Enniskillen base, the decision was made to reshore and the company now employs 185 staff in Northern Ireland. Elite found itself swept along with the widespread desire to cut costs, no matter what, before the financial crisis hit, according to Mr Balfour. “Low cost was the big phrase of the time,” he said. “All our customers were saying 'China, China, China, we’ve got to get into China’. We were riding the wave and a few years later we found out the real cost the hard way.” He advises any company considering moving manufacturing or extending its supply chain abroad to take a “long, hard look “at the costs and benefits. “We did a fairly rudimentary analysis,” Mr Balfour said. “And two to three years later we found out the true cost the hard way.” | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
And now I can see why people are deserting this forum!!!!
My alarm is permanently set for 4.30am, so I can go out and create wealth, therefore early to bed and early to rise! I'm not here 24/7 and neither would I want to be.
I have personal experience of failed outsourcing. I work in the sector, and during the 1990s, was involved with three companies, where outsourcing to India and China didn't work. Prices were cheaper but the quality and failure rate was appalling. It led to these companies bringing back some of the production. Concerns about poor health and safety practices were also a factor.
Since then, some manufacturing has gone back, where it is more strictly controlled in purpose built factories and with a trained workforce, hence JCBs being built in India and Range Rovers in China. This taps into both markets and a cheaper labour force.
UK manufacturing is more highly specialised, and the sectors that I work in, are still buoyant.
You still didn't name a single company that moved production from the UK, to another EU country and back again!
Since when has the EU been in the sub-continent? You need to go back and read the post properly.
Then read up on the concept of "reshoring".
Then maybe have a look at what Cadburys and Maclaren are doing.
Cadburys are about to move there process plant from York to Poland with the loss of about 300 jobs...so im not getting your pointon Cadbury...as for Maclaren ive not heard anything about them only that Ron Dennis is not CEO anymore
Oh dear! It's Nestles in York and not Cadburys.
Dairy Milk production is returning to the UK from Poland.
Carbon fibre technology for Mclaren is returning to the UK from Austria.
Think you need to perhaps do more research instead of trying to shoot people down, just because they don't fit your agenda.
Again, look up the concept of "Reshoring".
Quote EU is not the Sub continent
Those are examples of EU to UK for CLCC, as he couldn't do his research either.
Let's try Clark's shoes and Elite Electronics, sub continent to the UK.
Elite Electronics
Supply chain issues again and all done both of what you quote were post brexit referendum....interesting to read the companies CEO thoughts on customs clearances though lol
Nine years ago, Elite Electronic Systems decided to source cables from abroad that it had previously made at its base in Enniskillen, Northern Ireland.
While the plan started well, it soon ran into problems. Then the recession hit, highlighting the pitfalls of long supply chains, says director Jonathan Balfour.
“Quality was an issue and then we had a recession,” he said. “Our Chinese supplier had just received an order which would normally take more than three months to ship. We tried to stop it but – miraculously – it was on a ship within two weeks
Unable to halt the consignment, Elite ended up sitting on 20 months of stock, instead of the normal month or two, hitting the company’s cash flow just as the financial crisis was at its worst.
Elite, whose customers include Caterpillar, Chubb and Tyco, also says the sheer physical distance of having production on the other side of the world causes difficulties. “We seemed to have to go out there every time there was a problem, if we wanted to make a change or prototype,” Mr Balfour said, adding that travel costs soon racked up.
“Also, it’s very difficult to figure out what a customer wants in 20 weeks’ time [the normal delivery period] and a product arriving a week or two late could leave us sitting on months of stock.”
Logistics simply exacerbated Elite’s troubles, he added. “You’ve got to find a ship, get the product on to it, get it through customs – we could have consignments sitting in a port for weeks… It was tiring.”
Having invested in more efficient equipment at its Enniskillen base, the decision was made to reshore and the company now employs 185 staff in Northern Ireland.
Elite found itself swept along with the widespread desire to cut costs, no matter what, before the financial crisis hit, according to Mr Balfour.
“Low cost was the big phrase of the time,” he said. “All our customers were saying 'China, China, China, we’ve got to get into China’. We were riding the wave and a few years later we found out the real cost the hard way.”
He advises any company considering moving manufacturing or extending its supply chain abroad to take a “long, hard look “at the costs and benefits. “We did a fairly rudimentary analysis,” Mr Balfour said. “And two to three years later we found out the true cost the hard way.”
"So we both now agree that Reshoring does take place, throughout the global marketplace. That jobs that been in the EU are coming back to the UK? That just because we sign a FTA with Pakistan, doesn't mean that we are going to be building aircraft engines there? British manufacturing is strong, but not perfect. I have over 35 years in the sector, and companies like what they see and want to buy into it. | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
And now I can see why people are deserting this forum!!!!
My alarm is permanently set for 4.30am, so I can go out and create wealth, therefore early to bed and early to rise! I'm not here 24/7 and neither would I want to be.
I have personal experience of failed outsourcing. I work in the sector, and during the 1990s, was involved with three companies, where outsourcing to India and China didn't work. Prices were cheaper but the quality and failure rate was appalling. It led to these companies bringing back some of the production. Concerns about poor health and safety practices were also a factor.
Since then, some manufacturing has gone back, where it is more strictly controlled in purpose built factories and with a trained workforce, hence JCBs being built in India and Range Rovers in China. This taps into both markets and a cheaper labour force.
UK manufacturing is more highly specialised, and the sectors that I work in, are still buoyant.
You still didn't name a single company that moved production from the UK, to another EU country and back again!
Since when has the EU been in the sub-continent? You need to go back and read the post properly.
Then read up on the concept of "reshoring".
Then maybe have a look at what Cadburys and Maclaren are doing.
Cadburys are about to move there process plant from York to Poland with the loss of about 300 jobs...so im not getting your pointon Cadbury...as for Maclaren ive not heard anything about them only that Ron Dennis is not CEO anymore
Oh dear! It's Nestles in York and not Cadburys.
Dairy Milk production is returning to the UK from Poland.
Carbon fibre technology for Mclaren is returning to the UK from Austria.
Think you need to perhaps do more research instead of trying to shoot people down, just because they don't fit your agenda.
Again, look up the concept of "Reshoring".
Quote EU is not the Sub continent
Those are examples of EU to UK for CLCC, as he couldn't do his research either.
Let's try Clark's shoes and Elite Electronics, sub continent to the UK.
Elite Electronics
Supply chain issues again and all done both of what you quote were post brexit referendum....interesting to read the companies CEO thoughts on customs clearances though lol
Nine years ago, Elite Electronic Systems decided to source cables from abroad that it had previously made at its base in Enniskillen, Northern Ireland.
While the plan started well, it soon ran into problems. Then the recession hit, highlighting the pitfalls of long supply chains, says director Jonathan Balfour.
“Quality was an issue and then we had a recession,” he said. “Our Chinese supplier had just received an order which would normally take more than three months to ship. We tried to stop it but – miraculously – it was on a ship within two weeks
Unable to halt the consignment, Elite ended up sitting on 20 months of stock, instead of the normal month or two, hitting the company’s cash flow just as the financial crisis was at its worst.
Elite, whose customers include Caterpillar, Chubb and Tyco, also says the sheer physical distance of having production on the other side of the world causes difficulties. “We seemed to have to go out there every time there was a problem, if we wanted to make a change or prototype,” Mr Balfour said, adding that travel costs soon racked up.
“Also, it’s very difficult to figure out what a customer wants in 20 weeks’ time [the normal delivery period] and a product arriving a week or two late could leave us sitting on months of stock.”
Logistics simply exacerbated Elite’s troubles, he added. “You’ve got to find a ship, get the product on to it, get it through customs – we could have consignments sitting in a port for weeks… It was tiring.”
Having invested in more efficient equipment at its Enniskillen base, the decision was made to reshore and the company now employs 185 staff in Northern Ireland.
Elite found itself swept along with the widespread desire to cut costs, no matter what, before the financial crisis hit, according to Mr Balfour.
“Low cost was the big phrase of the time,” he said. “All our customers were saying 'China, China, China, we’ve got to get into China’. We were riding the wave and a few years later we found out the real cost the hard way.”
He advises any company considering moving manufacturing or extending its supply chain abroad to take a “long, hard look “at the costs and benefits. “We did a fairly rudimentary analysis,” Mr Balfour said. “And two to three years later we found out the true cost the hard way.”
So we both now agree that Reshoring does take place, throughout the global marketplace.
That jobs that been in the EU are coming back to the UK?
That just because we sign a FTA with Pakistan, doesn't mean that we are going to be building aircraft engines there?
British manufacturing is strong, but not perfect. I have over 35 years in the sector, and companies like what they see and want to buy into it."But they never moved anyway they just closed the factories down and went for a cheaper option...and there not coming back from the EU these are on the sub continent | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
And now I can see why people are deserting this forum!!!!
My alarm is permanently set for 4.30am, so I can go out and create wealth, therefore early to bed and early to rise! I'm not here 24/7 and neither would I want to be.
I have personal experience of failed outsourcing. I work in the sector, and during the 1990s, was involved with three companies, where outsourcing to India and China didn't work. Prices were cheaper but the quality and failure rate was appalling. It led to these companies bringing back some of the production. Concerns about poor health and safety practices were also a factor.
Since then, some manufacturing has gone back, where it is more strictly controlled in purpose built factories and with a trained workforce, hence JCBs being built in India and Range Rovers in China. This taps into both markets and a cheaper labour force.
UK manufacturing is more highly specialised, and the sectors that I work in, are still buoyant.
You still didn't name a single company that moved production from the UK, to another EU country and back again!
Since when has the EU been in the sub-continent? You need to go back and read the post properly.
Then read up on the concept of "reshoring".
Then maybe have a look at what Cadburys and Maclaren are doing.
"I think this a poor example to make a point about british manufacturing neither Cadbury or McLaren are british companies owned by british people the majority of there profits wouldn't be staying here in the UK | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
And now I can see why people are deserting this forum!!!!
My alarm is permanently set for 4.30am, so I can go out and create wealth, therefore early to bed and early to rise! I'm not here 24/7 and neither would I want to be.
I have personal experience of failed outsourcing. I work in the sector, and during the 1990s, was involved with three companies, where outsourcing to India and China didn't work. Prices were cheaper but the quality and failure rate was appalling. It led to these companies bringing back some of the production. Concerns about poor health and safety practices were also a factor.
Since then, some manufacturing has gone back, where it is more strictly controlled in purpose built factories and with a trained workforce, hence JCBs being built in India and Range Rovers in China. This taps into both markets and a cheaper labour force.
UK manufacturing is more highly specialised, and the sectors that I work in, are still buoyant.
You still didn't name a single company that moved production from the UK, to another EU country and back again!
Since when has the EU been in the sub-continent? You need to go back and read the post properly.
Then read up on the concept of "reshoring".
Then maybe have a look at what Cadburys and Maclaren are doing.
Cadburys are about to move there process plant from York to Poland with the loss of about 300 jobs...so im not getting your pointon Cadbury...as for Maclaren ive not heard anything about them only that Ron Dennis is not CEO anymore
Oh dear! It's Nestles in York and not Cadburys.
Dairy Milk production is returning to the UK from Poland.
Carbon fibre technology for Mclaren is returning to the UK from Austria.
Think you need to perhaps do more research instead of trying to shoot people down, just because they don't fit your agenda.
Again, look up the concept of "Reshoring".
Quote EU is not the Sub continent
Those are examples of EU to UK for CLCC, as he couldn't do his research either.
Let's try Clark's shoes and Elite Electronics, sub continent to the UK.
Elite Electronics
Supply chain issues again and all done both of what you quote were post brexit referendum....interesting to read the companies CEO thoughts on customs clearances though lol
Nine years ago, Elite Electronic Systems decided to source cables from abroad that it had previously made at its base in Enniskillen, Northern Ireland.
While the plan started well, it soon ran into problems. Then the recession hit, highlighting the pitfalls of long supply chains, says director Jonathan Balfour.
“Quality was an issue and then we had a recession,” he said. “Our Chinese supplier had just received an order which would normally take more than three months to ship. We tried to stop it but – miraculously – it was on a ship within two weeks
Unable to halt the consignment, Elite ended up sitting on 20 months of stock, instead of the normal month or two, hitting the company’s cash flow just as the financial crisis was at its worst.
Elite, whose customers include Caterpillar, Chubb and Tyco, also says the sheer physical distance of having production on the other side of the world causes difficulties. “We seemed to have to go out there every time there was a problem, if we wanted to make a change or prototype,” Mr Balfour said, adding that travel costs soon racked up.
“Also, it’s very difficult to figure out what a customer wants in 20 weeks’ time [the normal delivery period] and a product arriving a week or two late could leave us sitting on months of stock.”
Logistics simply exacerbated Elite’s troubles, he added. “You’ve got to find a ship, get the product on to it, get it through customs – we could have consignments sitting in a port for weeks… It was tiring.”
Having invested in more efficient equipment at its Enniskillen base, the decision was made to reshore and the company now employs 185 staff in Northern Ireland.
Elite found itself swept along with the widespread desire to cut costs, no matter what, before the financial crisis hit, according to Mr Balfour.
“Low cost was the big phrase of the time,” he said. “All our customers were saying 'China, China, China, we’ve got to get into China’. We were riding the wave and a few years later we found out the real cost the hard way.”
He advises any company considering moving manufacturing or extending its supply chain abroad to take a “long, hard look “at the costs and benefits. “We did a fairly rudimentary analysis,” Mr Balfour said. “And two to three years later we found out the true cost the hard way.”
"What has this got to do with the justification of the UK having free trade agreements with economies and countries that are much poorer than our own? | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
And now I can see why people are deserting this forum!!!!
My alarm is permanently set for 4.30am, so I can go out and create wealth, therefore early to bed and early to rise! I'm not here 24/7 and neither would I want to be.
I have personal experience of failed outsourcing. I work in the sector, and during the 1990s, was involved with three companies, where outsourcing to India and China didn't work. Prices were cheaper but the quality and failure rate was appalling. It led to these companies bringing back some of the production. Concerns about poor health and safety practices were also a factor.
Since then, some manufacturing has gone back, where it is more strictly controlled in purpose built factories and with a trained workforce, hence JCBs being built in India and Range Rovers in China. This taps into both markets and a cheaper labour force.
UK manufacturing is more highly specialised, and the sectors that I work in, are still buoyant.
You still didn't name a single company that moved production from the UK, to another EU country and back again!
Since when has the EU been in the sub-continent? You need to go back and read the post properly.
Then read up on the concept of "reshoring".
Then maybe have a look at what Cadburys and Maclaren are doing.
I think this a poor example to make a point about british manufacturing neither Cadbury or McLaren are british companies owned by british people the majority of there profits wouldn't be staying here in the UK "But the jobs are in the UK. | |||
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"It's bullshit to say that Asian cant make quality goods. They make those brilliant British products such as JCB, Dyson vacuums, Jaguar and Land Rover. They also make Apple products, Nikon and Canon. How many of you guys have a British made smartphone, laptop or TV? Or are they made is Asia? How about the numerous asian car manufacturers, nissan, toyota, Hyundai, Kia, Lexus, all popular in the UK. Look at how many of the worlds tallest buildings are in Asia, or longest bridges, biggest dams, fastest trains. Asia has fighter planes, ICBMs, satellites etc. I know it must be disappointing for some on here to hear that other countries have caught up with the UK's technological lead we had during the industrial revolution, but they have. To pretend otherwise is ludicrous. " All very true but there is a lot of difference between a backstreet Indian sweatshop and a state of the art Japanese factory. | |||
"Mercury, the question was "Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?" And it wasn't written by me. I am well aware of where the EU is." If that's the question, then no, I can't name any that completely shut up shop here, moved wholesale to the EU, then moved wholesale back again. | |||
"It's bullshit to say that Asian cant make quality goods. They make those brilliant British products such as JCB, Dyson vacuums, Jaguar and Land Rover. They also make Apple products, Nikon and Canon. How many of you guys have a British made smartphone, laptop or TV? Or are they made is Asia? How about the numerous asian car manufacturers, nissan, toyota, Hyundai, Kia, Lexus, all popular in the UK. Look at how many of the worlds tallest buildings are in Asia, or longest bridges, biggest dams, fastest trains. Asia has fighter planes, ICBMs, satellites etc. I know it must be disappointing for some on here to hear that other countries have caught up with the UK's technological lead we had during the industrial revolution, but they have. To pretend otherwise is ludicrous. All very true but there is a lot of difference between a backstreet Indian sweatshop and a state of the art Japanese factory. " True, there are different quality factories in every country in the world, there are factories in the UK that are set up for making Christmas cracker toys and ones set up for making satellites. People just need to make sure they pick the right one for their needs. It's wrong to say that one factory represents an entire country or an entire continent's abilities. | |||
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" It's just madness not to think we will be better off by leaving, however it's now too late to go back.. " Madness not to think we will be better off by leaving, or madness not to think we will be worse off by leaving? Also, it is not too late. Until we actually leave in March 2019, we can change our mind and withdraw Article 50 notice. So say the authors of the clause. The European Court will rule on it, but nowhere does it say we can't. | |||
"Brexit is economic suicide." Not suicide, but definitely self harm. However it was about more than that, wasn't it? Maybe we should start a thread on what it was for, because I've forgotten. Immigration, Sovereignty, British Laws , Democracy were some, if I remember rightly, I'm not sure what others there were now. | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
And now I can see why people are deserting this forum!!!!
My alarm is permanently set for 4.30am, so I can go out and create wealth, therefore early to bed and early to rise! I'm not here 24/7 and neither would I want to be.
I have personal experience of failed outsourcing. I work in the sector, and during the 1990s, was involved with three companies, where outsourcing to India and China didn't work. Prices were cheaper but the quality and failure rate was appalling. It led to these companies bringing back some of the production. Concerns about poor health and safety practices were also a factor.
Since then, some manufacturing has gone back, where it is more strictly controlled in purpose built factories and with a trained workforce, hence JCBs being built in India and Range Rovers in China. This taps into both markets and a cheaper labour force.
UK manufacturing is more highly specialised, and the sectors that I work in, are still buoyant.
You still didn't name a single company that moved production from the UK, to another EU country and back again!
Since when has the EU been in the sub-continent? You need to go back and read the post properly.
Then read up on the concept of "reshoring".
Then maybe have a look at what Cadburys and Maclaren are doing.
Cadburys are about to move there process plant from York to Poland with the loss of about 300 jobs...so im not getting your pointon Cadbury...as for Maclaren ive not heard anything about them only that Ron Dennis is not CEO anymore
Oh dear! It's Nestles in York and not Cadburys.
Dairy Milk production is returning to the UK from Poland.
Carbon fibre technology for Mclaren is returning to the UK from Austria.
Think you need to perhaps do more research instead of trying to shoot people down, just because they don't fit your agenda.
Again, look up the concept of "Reshoring".
Quote EU is not the Sub continent
Those are examples of EU to UK for CLCC, as he couldn't do his research either.
Let's try Clark's shoes and Elite Electronics, sub continent to the UK.
Elite Electronics
Supply chain issues again and all done both of what you quote were post brexit referendum....interesting to read the companies CEO thoughts on customs clearances though lol
Nine years ago, Elite Electronic Systems decided to source cables from abroad that it had previously made at its base in Enniskillen, Northern Ireland.
While the plan started well, it soon ran into problems. Then the recession hit, highlighting the pitfalls of long supply chains, says director Jonathan Balfour.
“Quality was an issue and then we had a recession,” he said. “Our Chinese supplier had just received an order which would normally take more than three months to ship. We tried to stop it but – miraculously – it was on a ship within two weeks
Unable to halt the consignment, Elite ended up sitting on 20 months of stock, instead of the normal month or two, hitting the company’s cash flow just as the financial crisis was at its worst.
Elite, whose customers include Caterpillar, Chubb and Tyco, also says the sheer physical distance of having production on the other side of the world causes difficulties. “We seemed to have to go out there every time there was a problem, if we wanted to make a change or prototype,” Mr Balfour said, adding that travel costs soon racked up.
“Also, it’s very difficult to figure out what a customer wants in 20 weeks’ time [the normal delivery period] and a product arriving a week or two late could leave us sitting on months of stock.”
Logistics simply exacerbated Elite’s troubles, he added. “You’ve got to find a ship, get the product on to it, get it through customs – we could have consignments sitting in a port for weeks… It was tiring.”
Having invested in more efficient equipment at its Enniskillen base, the decision was made to reshore and the company now employs 185 staff in Northern Ireland.
Elite found itself swept along with the widespread desire to cut costs, no matter what, before the financial crisis hit, according to Mr Balfour.
“Low cost was the big phrase of the time,” he said. “All our customers were saying 'China, China, China, we’ve got to get into China’. We were riding the wave and a few years later we found out the real cost the hard way.”
He advises any company considering moving manufacturing or extending its supply chain abroad to take a “long, hard look “at the costs and benefits. “We did a fairly rudimentary analysis,” Mr Balfour said. “And two to three years later we found out the true cost the hard way.”
What has this got to do with the justification of the UK having free trade agreements with economies and countries that are much poorer than our own?
"It in answer to Mercury saying there are LOTS of companies returned from the "Sub Continent" as he put then giving me tbh 2 bullshit examples of them returning those are the reasons they returned...but as i pointed out the customs bit makes for interesting reading with these 2 companies says the sheer physical distance of having production on the other side of the world causes difficulties. “We seemed to have to go out there every time there was a problem, if we wanted to make a change or prototype,” Mr Balfour said, adding that travel costs soon racked up. “Also, it’s very difficult to figure out what a customer wants in 20 weeks’ time [the normal delivery period] and a product arriving a week or two late could leave us sitting on months of stock.” Logistics simply exacerbated Elite’s troubles, he added. “You’ve got to find a ship, get the product on to it, get it through customs – we could have consignments sitting in a port for weeks… It was tiring.” Having invested in more efficient equipment at its Enniskillen base, the decision was made to reshore and the company now employs 185 staff in Northern Ireland. Elite found itself swept along with the widespread desire to cut costs, no matter what, before the financial crisis hit, according to Mr Balfour. “Low cost was the big phrase of the time,” he said. “All our customers were saying 'China, China, China, we’ve got to get into China’. We were riding the wave and a few years later we found out the real cost the hard way.” He advises any company considering moving manufacturing or extending its supply chain abroad to take a “long, hard look “at the costs and benefits. “We did a fairly rudimentary analysis,” Mr Balfour said. “And two to three years later we found out the true cost the hard way.” | |||
"Brexit is economic suicide. Not suicide, but definitely self harm. However it was about more than that, wasn't it? Maybe we should start a thread on what it was for, because I've forgotten. Immigration, Sovereignty, British Laws , Democracy were some, if I remember rightly, I'm not sure what others there were now." Yes, we should start a thread about it too as it would be good to see what others thought about it. | |||
"Brexit is economic suicide. Not suicide, but definitely self harm. However it was about more than that, wasn't it? Maybe we should start a thread on what it was for, because I've forgotten. Immigration, Sovereignty, British Laws , Democracy were some, if I remember rightly, I'm not sure what others there were now." brexit was about frustrations being vented in the wrong direction..and the powers that be intentionally not correcting the mis information that was being spread in the media | |||
" You and others used to bang the drum that the Eurozone was failing and that post Brexit Britain would hugely outperform it. And yet today we see the Eurozones GDP growth is TWICE the UKs. This part of your post really does highlight the complete and utter nonsense you spout on here on a daily basis. We haven't left the EU yet, so we are not in a post Brexit Britain yet are we.
We remain a FULL member of the EU until the end of the article 50 period which is in March 2019.
After we leave the EU and start to establish our own free trade deals all around the rest of the world that is when Brexit Britain will outperform the Eurozone and 2 separate independent thinktanks have said this. This is what i have been saying all along, that the benefit of Brexit will come for the UK in the long term but far be it from you to misrepresent the facts and try to twist other people's words to suit your own agenda.
As for the Eurozone the EU can put as many sticking plasters on it as they like, you can't have a currency union with countries like Germany and Greece in it and expect it to work. The Eurozone is a disaster waiting to happen and when it goes pop, which it will, it'll make Brexit look like small fry. Ex Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King (there's that experts name again) has said the Euro and the Eurozone is doomed to failure. He's right, and its just a matter of time before it all goes sour for the Euro and the Eurozone.
Why do you think free trade deals with countries like India, Pakistan, China and the countries of Africa and S America will be good for the UK?
You don't need much of an economic understanding to realise that such deals would be catastrophic to any remaining manufacturing in the U.K. All of those countries can produce products far cheaper than what they can be made in the U.K. and they will therefore undercut UK manufacturing.
Not quite. It's been tried and largely failed. Lots of companies in the 1990s especially, switched production to the sub-continent. Prices may have been cheaper but quality was dire. Many have now switched back to the UK, or other EU countries. One thing we can be proud of these days, is the quality of our workmanship.
Can you name any that relocated to the EU then moved back again....id be interested to see them....or any that have indeed moved out of the EU then back to the UK?
No, no he can't!
And now I can see why people are deserting this forum!!!!
My alarm is permanently set for 4.30am, so I can go out and create wealth, therefore early to bed and early to rise! I'm not here 24/7 and neither would I want to be.
I have personal experience of failed outsourcing. I work in the sector, and during the 1990s, was involved with three companies, where outsourcing to India and China didn't work. Prices were cheaper but the quality and failure rate was appalling. It led to these companies bringing back some of the production. Concerns about poor health and safety practices were also a factor.
Since then, some manufacturing has gone back, where it is more strictly controlled in purpose built factories and with a trained workforce, hence JCBs being built in India and Range Rovers in China. This taps into both markets and a cheaper labour force.
UK manufacturing is more highly specialised, and the sectors that I work in, are still buoyant.
You still didn't name a single company that moved production from the UK, to another EU country and back again!
Since when has the EU been in the sub-continent? You need to go back and read the post properly.
Then read up on the concept of "reshoring".
Then maybe have a look at what Cadburys and Maclaren are doing.
Cadburys are about to move there process plant from York to Poland with the loss of about 300 jobs...so im not getting your pointon Cadbury...as for Maclaren ive not heard anything about them only that Ron Dennis is not CEO anymore
Oh dear! It's Nestles in York and not Cadburys.
Dairy Milk production is returning to the UK from Poland.
Carbon fibre technology for Mclaren is returning to the UK from Austria.
Think you need to perhaps do more research instead of trying to shoot people down, just because they don't fit your agenda.
Again, look up the concept of "Reshoring".
Quote EU is not the Sub continent
Those are examples of EU to UK for CLCC, as he couldn't do his research either.
Let's try Clark's shoes and Elite Electronics, sub continent to the UK.
Elite Electronics
Supply chain issues again and all done both of what you quote were post brexit referendum....interesting to read the companies CEO thoughts on customs clearances though lol
Nine years ago, Elite Electronic Systems decided to source cables from abroad that it had previously made at its base in Enniskillen, Northern Ireland.
While the plan started well, it soon ran into problems. Then the recession hit, highlighting the pitfalls of long supply chains, says director Jonathan Balfour.
“Quality was an issue and then we had a recession,” he said. “Our Chinese supplier had just received an order which would normally take more than three months to ship. We tried to stop it but – miraculously – it was on a ship within two weeks
Unable to halt the consignment, Elite ended up sitting on 20 months of stock, instead of the normal month or two, hitting the company’s cash flow just as the financial crisis was at its worst.
Elite, whose customers include Caterpillar, Chubb and Tyco, also says the sheer physical distance of having production on the other side of the world causes difficulties. “We seemed to have to go out there every time there was a problem, if we wanted to make a change or prototype,” Mr Balfour said, adding that travel costs soon racked up.
“Also, it’s very difficult to figure out what a customer wants in 20 weeks’ time [the normal delivery period] and a product arriving a week or two late could leave us sitting on months of stock.”
Logistics simply exacerbated Elite’s troubles, he added. “You’ve got to find a ship, get the product on to it, get it through customs – we could have consignments sitting in a port for weeks… It was tiring.”
Having invested in more efficient equipment at its Enniskillen base, the decision was made to reshore and the company now employs 185 staff in Northern Ireland.
Elite found itself swept along with the widespread desire to cut costs, no matter what, before the financial crisis hit, according to Mr Balfour.
“Low cost was the big phrase of the time,” he said. “All our customers were saying 'China, China, China, we’ve got to get into China’. We were riding the wave and a few years later we found out the real cost the hard way.”
He advises any company considering moving manufacturing or extending its supply chain abroad to take a “long, hard look “at the costs and benefits. “We did a fairly rudimentary analysis,” Mr Balfour said. “And two to three years later we found out the true cost the hard way.”
What has this got to do with the justification of the UK having free trade agreements with economies and countries that are much poorer than our own?
It in answer to Mercury saying there are LOTS of companies returned from the "Sub Continent" as he put then giving me tbh 2 bullshit examples of them returning those are the reasons they returned...but as i pointed out the customs bit makes for interesting reading with these 2 companies
says the sheer physical distance of having production on the other side of the world causes difficulties. “We seemed to have to go out there every time there was a problem, if we wanted to make a change or prototype,” Mr Balfour said, adding that travel costs soon racked up.
“Also, it’s very difficult to figure out what a customer wants in 20 weeks’ time [the normal delivery period] and a product arriving a week or two late could leave us sitting on months of stock.”
Logistics simply exacerbated Elite’s troubles, he added. “You’ve got to find a ship, get the product on to it, get it through customs – we could have consignments sitting in a port for weeks… It was tiring.”
Having invested in more efficient equipment at its Enniskillen base, the decision was made to reshore and the company now employs 185 staff in Northern Ireland.
Elite found itself swept along with the widespread desire to cut costs, no matter what, before the financial crisis hit, according to Mr Balfour.
“Low cost was the big phrase of the time,” he said. “All our customers were saying 'China, China, China, we’ve got to get into China’. We were riding the wave and a few years later we found out the real cost the hard way.”
He advises any company considering moving manufacturing or extending its supply chain abroad to take a “long, hard look “at the costs and benefits. “We did a fairly rudimentary analysis,” Mr Balfour said. “And two to three years later we found out the true cost the hard way.”
"You asked for examples of "Reshoring" from the sub continent to the UK and you got examples. There are many others, from manufacturing to fashion to call centres. If they don't fit your agenda, then not my problem. I said that it existed and it does. I made no comment, other than my own historical personal experiences of poor quality, of why they are doing it. | |||
"Brexit is economic suicide. Not suicide, but definitely self harm. However it was about more than that, wasn't it? Maybe we should start a thread on what it was for, because I've forgotten. Immigration, Sovereignty, British Laws , Democracy were some, if I remember rightly, I'm not sure what others there were now. brexit was about frustrations being vented in the wrong direction..and the powers that be intentionally not correcting the mis information that was being spread in the media " Brexit was mostly motivated by fears towards european immigration. The paradox is that the majority of Europeans in the UK share British values, speak proper english, pay taxes and pay for national insurance. The prospect is that this type of migration will move out of the UK... Obviously their contribution to the UK economy will be missed. | |||
" You asked for examples of "Reshoring" from the sub continent to the UK and you got examples. There are many others, from manufacturing to fashion to call centres. If they don't fit your agenda, then not my problem. I said that it existed and it does. I made no comment, other than my own historical personal experiences of poor quality, of why they are doing it. " These were all pre brexit vote btw.....and like i said these companies did not relocate back as they had already shut down there factories years before.... So tbh im not getting why you even brought them up.....and also did the customs bit go over your head what those CEO's are saying is what we companies after 2019 are going to have to get used to anywhere in the world not just on the Sub Continent...me for one don't think there examples of trade agreements do not bode well for business of this country | |||
" You asked for examples of "Reshoring" from the sub continent to the UK and you got examples. There are many others, from manufacturing to fashion to call centres. If they don't fit your agenda, then not my problem. I said that it existed and it does. I made no comment, other than my own historical personal experiences of poor quality, of why they are doing it. These were all pre brexit vote btw.....and like i said these companies did not relocate back as they had already shut down there factories years before.... So tbh im not getting why you even brought them up.....and also did the customs bit go over your head what those CEO's are saying is what we companies after 2019 are going to have to get used to anywhere in the world not just on the Sub Continent...me for one don't think there examples of trade agreements do not bode well for business of this country "I purposely kept Brexit out of it; all this was in response to FTAs with the likes of China and Pakistan would mean a rush of manufacturing out of the UK. The Engineering Employers Federation estimates that 15-20% of outsourced Jobs in the sub continent have returned to the UK, and this trend will continue. I reiterate that aspects of UK manufacturing are strong, buoyant and that will continue, Brexit or no Brexit. | |||
" I reiterate that aspects of UK manufacturing are strong, buoyant and that will continue, Brexit or no Brexit." We are not a big manufacturer. What we do we are very good at. However a big part of the reason for that is we are a world leader in Science and Academia and therefore research and development. We have therefore been a hub for the best and the brightest from around the world to come. Brexit has fucked that. Those here have suddenly found to their surprise that we seem to be intolerant, xenophobic and racist. Many are leaving. The number of overseas students wanting/being able to come here in future appears to be falling off a cliff. This means not only will we not have as thriving community of researchers and idea's of the brightest and the best, not only will we not have them settle hear or forge trade links with their home countries and the UK, the universities will suffer massively because of the funds they brought in no longer being paid, which means either the standards of our universities suffers back to the mediocre levels we were rated at in the early to mid 1970's before membership of the EU helped precipitate our rise to the top again or it will have to be funded out of taxation. As for Science, Brexit is a disaster. It should have been a priority for this government, instead it doesn't even seem to have been an afterthought. | |||
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" I reiterate that aspects of UK manufacturing are strong, buoyant and that will continue, Brexit or no Brexit. We are not a big manufacturer. What we do we are very good at. However a big part of the reason for that is we are a world leader in Science and Academia and therefore research and development. We have therefore been a hub for the best and the brightest from around the world to come. Brexit has fucked that. Those here have suddenly found to their surprise that we seem to be intolerant, xenophobic and racist. Many are leaving. The number of overseas students wanting/being able to come here in future appears to be falling off a cliff. This means not only will we not have as thriving community of researchers and idea's of the brightest and the best, not only will we not have them settle hear or forge trade links with their home countries and the UK, the universities will suffer massively because of the funds they brought in no longer being paid, which means either the standards of our universities suffers back to the mediocre levels we were rated at in the early to mid 1970's before membership of the EU helped precipitate our rise to the top again or it will have to be funded out of taxation. As for Science, Brexit is a disaster. It should have been a priority for this government, instead it doesn't even seem to have been an afterthought. " The days if factories employing thousands of workers, as was the case when I started out, are long gone. We have to identify certain markets and exploit them ruthlessly. Carbon fibre, battery, electric propulsion, space, high end pharmaceuticals....the list is endless. Train our brightest and best, drive it forward, reap the rewards as market leaders. Not easy but not unachievable either. | |||
" I reiterate that aspects of UK manufacturing are strong, buoyant and that will continue, Brexit or no Brexit. We are not a big manufacturer. What we do we are very good at. However a big part of the reason for that is we are a world leader in Science and Academia and therefore research and development. We have therefore been a hub for the best and the brightest from around the world to come. Brexit has fucked that. Those here have suddenly found to their surprise that we seem to be intolerant, xenophobic and racist. Many are leaving. The number of overseas students wanting/being able to come here in future appears to be falling off a cliff. This means not only will we not have as thriving community of researchers and idea's of the brightest and the best, not only will we not have them settle hear or forge trade links with their home countries and the UK, the universities will suffer massively because of the funds they brought in no longer being paid, which means either the standards of our universities suffers back to the mediocre levels we were rated at in the early to mid 1970's before membership of the EU helped precipitate our rise to the top again or it will have to be funded out of taxation. As for Science, Brexit is a disaster. It should have been a priority for this government, instead it doesn't even seem to have been an afterthought. The days if factories employing thousands of workers, as was the case when I started out, are long gone. We have to identify certain markets and exploit them ruthlessly. Carbon fibre, battery, electric propulsion, space, high end pharmaceuticals....the list is endless. Train our brightest and best, drive it forward, reap the rewards as market leaders. Not easy but not unachievable either." that's more like it
The referendum result was the kick up the backside that this country needed | |||
" I reiterate that aspects of UK manufacturing are strong, buoyant and that will continue, Brexit or no Brexit. We are not a big manufacturer. What we do we are very good at. However a big part of the reason for that is we are a world leader in Science and Academia and therefore research and development. We have therefore been a hub for the best and the brightest from around the world to come. Brexit has fucked that. Those here have suddenly found to their surprise that we seem to be intolerant, xenophobic and racist. Many are leaving. The number of overseas students wanting/being able to come here in future appears to be falling off a cliff. This means not only will we not have as thriving community of researchers and idea's of the brightest and the best, not only will we not have them settle hear or forge trade links with their home countries and the UK, the universities will suffer massively because of the funds they brought in no longer being paid, which means either the standards of our universities suffers back to the mediocre levels we were rated at in the early to mid 1970's before membership of the EU helped precipitate our rise to the top again or it will have to be funded out of taxation. As for Science, Brexit is a disaster. It should have been a priority for this government, instead it doesn't even seem to have been an afterthought. The days if factories employing thousands of workers, as was the case when I started out, are long gone. We have to identify certain markets and exploit them ruthlessly. Carbon fibre, battery, electric propulsion, space, high end pharmaceuticals....the list is endless. Train our brightest and best, drive it forward, reap the rewards as market leaders. Not easy but not unachievable either." Unless those industries are nationalised industries, it will be up to private enterprise to invest in this country. No-one will be doing that with a weak government in place and so much uncertainty. You don't need to point out odd news stories here and there about an employer here and there making a decision to commit to the UK - that is not the story. The picture of the UK righht now from an investors point of view is one of a country divided, unable to progress because of division, no clarity about futture trading arrangements and no clarity from the Government that education and training is going to be anything other than the subject of further cuts. Your idea is credible - unfortunately this country and the people who are running it are not in a position to deliver on such ideas. | |||
"....... Train our brightest and best, drive it forward, reap the rewards as market leaders. Not easy but not unachievable either. that's more like it
The referendum result was the kick up the backside that this country needed"That is just such a typical example of Brexitology in action. Yes of course it is a great idea, but these industries are not Nationalised and the Govt has no budget or mandate to spend literally billions more on education and training - so who is going to do it? The private sector? Why have BMW not expanded the plant in Birmingham that makes their hybrid engines to also make the new all ectric power unit? There is too much uncertainty and no direction from the Government. Brexit is overwhelming day to day Government and we have not even got to the important bits yet. Just because some punches the air and shouts "seal our borders" and then gets a rousing cheer doesn't mean it will happen. Someone has to have a plan of action and budget and it wont be the person punching the air and shouting. | |||
" The days if factories employing thousands of workers, as was the case when I started out, are long gone. We have to identify certain markets and exploit them ruthlessly. Carbon fibre, battery, electric propulsion, space, high end pharmaceuticals....the list is endless. Train our brightest and best, drive it forward, reap the rewards as market leaders. Not easy but not unachievable either." That is exactly my point. This is what we have been doing as part of the EU, thanks in part to being part of the EU. This is going to suffer with this ridiculous Government and its rhetoric of refusing to pay, of walking away with no deal, of refusing to exempt students from immigration targets, of not prioritising projects like erasmus, euratom. The European Research Area promotes the free movement of scientists, ideas and technology across the continent. Separately, the EU runs an €80bn (£70.2bn) research funding programme, which is supporting the work of nearly 6,500 UK-based scientists. British science has been among the biggest beneficiaries of EU research funds: between 2007-13, the UK paid €5.4bn (£4.7bn) to the research budget and received €8.8bn (£7.7bn) in grants. Walking away with no deal threatens all this. | |||
"....... Train our brightest and best, drive it forward, reap the rewards as market leaders. Not easy but not unachievable either. that's more like it
The referendum result was the kick up the backside that this country needed
That is just such a typical example of Brexitology in action.
Yes of course it is a great idea, but these industries are not Nationalised and the Govt has no budget or mandate to spend literally billions more on education and training - so who is going to do it? The private sector? Why have BMW not expanded the plant in Birmingham that makes their hybrid engines to also make the new all ectric power unit? There is too much uncertainty and no direction from the Government. Brexit is overwhelming day to day Government and we have not even got to the important bits yet.
Just because some punches the air and shouts "seal our borders" and then gets a rousing cheer doesn't mean it will happen. Someone has to have a plan of action and budget and it wont be the person punching the air and shouting. "I didn't vote for Brexit! What do you think is going to happen? We all walk around foraging for food in two years time? It is ridiculous! Investment in new technology and training will come from the governmemt and the private sector who see the opportunities once the UK is finally free of all these bullshit political negotiations and of the EU | |||
"....... Train our brightest and best, drive it forward, reap the rewards as market leaders. Not easy but not unachievable either. that's more like it
The referendum result was the kick up the backside that this country needed
That is just such a typical example of Brexitology in action.
Yes of course it is a great idea, but these industries are not Nationalised and the Govt has no budget or mandate to spend literally billions more on education and training - so who is going to do it? The private sector? Why have BMW not expanded the plant in Birmingham that makes their hybrid engines to also make the new all ectric power unit? There is too much uncertainty and no direction from the Government. Brexit is overwhelming day to day Government and we have not even got to the important bits yet.
Just because some punches the air and shouts "seal our borders" and then gets a rousing cheer doesn't mean it will happen. Someone has to have a plan of action and budget and it wont be the person punching the air and shouting.
I didn't vote for Brexit!
What do you think is going to happen? We all walk around foraging for food in two years time? It is ridiculous! Investment in new technology and training will come from the governmemt and the private sector who see the opportunities once the UK is finally free of all these bullshit political negotiations and of the EU"Pigs fly too, once we get into our sinking ship, the likes of Farage created | |||
" The days if factories employing thousands of workers, as was the case when I started out, are long gone. We have to identify certain markets and exploit them ruthlessly. Carbon fibre, battery, electric propulsion, space, high end pharmaceuticals....the list is endless. Train our brightest and best, drive it forward, reap the rewards as market leaders. Not easy but not unachievable either. That is exactly my point. This is what we have been doing as part of the EU, thanks in part to being part of the EU. This is going to suffer with this ridiculous Government and its rhetoric of refusing to pay, of walking away with no deal, of refusing to exempt students from immigration targets, of not prioritising projects like erasmus, euratom. The European Research Area promotes the free movement of scientists, ideas and technology across the continent. Separately, the EU runs an €80bn (£70.2bn) research funding programme, which is supporting the work of nearly 6,500 UK-based scientists. British science has been among the biggest beneficiaries of EU research funds: between 2007-13, the UK paid €5.4bn (£4.7bn) to the research budget and received €8.8bn (£7.7bn) in grants. Walking away with no deal threatens all this." 6,500 UK-based scientists integrated or very keen to integrate, proper english speakers, paying taxes and national insurance from their monthly income... Brexit is a sad sad thing. | |||
"Regardless of whether Mrs May slapped the chancellor down, or whether a handful of high profile brexiters are saying this that or the other, most of the politicians in parliament, the EU and the rest of the world and most of the business leaders of uk businesses in most fields (most, not all) know brexit, particularly the way it is being handled is going to be a fucking car crash. The public are realising it and it will become ever more apparent the closer we get to March 2019 and completely laid bare when the deal is put to the EUropean Parliaments and our own that our public will be demanding its MP's put a stop to the madness. At that point there will be a vote of no confidence that will easily carry, followed by a general election where Brexit isn't even mentioned in the manifesto's of the major parties, much like Remain wasn't this time round and UKIP will receive about 20% of the vote and we can all say there you go, 80/20 remain, now fuck off and shut up, you lost, get over it. " Brave you have a lot more confidence in the cerebral processing me the UK population than I do x I hope you're right however I feel dogma, fear, and tribalism will conquer the near future x | |||
"....... Train our brightest and best, drive it forward, reap the rewards as market leaders. Not easy but not unachievable either. that's more like it
The referendum result was the kick up the backside that this country needed
That is just such a typical example of Brexitology in action.
Yes of course it is a great idea, but these industries are not Nationalised and the Govt has no budget or mandate to spend literally billions more on education and training - so who is going to do it? The private sector? Why have BMW not expanded the plant in Birmingham that makes their hybrid engines to also make the new all ectric power unit? There is too much uncertainty and no direction from the Government. Brexit is overwhelming day to day Government and we have not even got to the important bits yet.
Just because some punches the air and shouts "seal our borders" and then gets a rousing cheer doesn't mean it will happen. Someone has to have a plan of action and budget and it wont be the person punching the air and shouting.
I didn't vote for Brexit!
What do you think is going to happen? We all walk around foraging for food in two years time? It is ridiculous! Investment in new technology and training will come from the governmemt and the private sector who see the opportunities once the UK is finally free of all these bullshit political negotiations and of the EU
Pigs fly too, once we get into our sinking ship, the likes of Farage created "Farage created nothing. The EU created Brexit | |||
"....... Farage created nothing. The EU created Brexit" That would not explain why the predicted EU exit of Netherlands and France didn't actually happen and indeed the question would be why is confidence in the EU by member countries (apart from 1) greater today than ever before? Some people just need someone to blame because they are not grown up to accept their own limitations. Unfortunately, a lot of this country is afflicted in this way. The EU has nothing to blame for anything bad that has happened in the U.K. - NOTHING! It has plenty to credit for, but nothing to blame. | |||
"....... Farage created nothing. The EU created Brexit That would not explain why the predicted EU exit of Netherlands and France didn't actually happen and indeed the question would be why is confidence in the EU by member countries (apart from 1) greater today than ever before? Some people just need someone to blame because they are not grown up to accept their own limitations. Unfortunately, a lot of this country is afflicted in this way. The EU has nothing to blame for anything bad that has happened in the U.K. - NOTHING! It has plenty to credit for, but nothing to blame." Confidence in the EU is not greater than ever before at all. You speak of the Netherlands and France? Well the parties that came 2nd there were the equivalent of UkIP here, did they ever finish as runners up at election time in the UK? And in Italy the 5 star party are currently neck and neck with the mainstream party and an election has to take place there by next spring. Who is responsible for the Euro disaster? That would be the EU and how much European trade has the UK lost through enforced austerity there. And people need someone to blame for their own limitations? You seem to be blaming the government and Brexit for yours | |||
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