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Iraqui soldiers executing captured Daish fighters.... anyone disapprove?
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It is reported that Iraqi soldiers are throwing captured terrorists off rooftops, in the same manner that daish would use as a means of execution.
The soldiers, having suffered not inconsiderable casualties in their effort to destroy IS and the threat which its remnants still pose, are concerned that government officials may succumb to bribery and release some terrorists to fight again.
Can anyone blame the soldiers for excising the cancer which has caused so much death and destruction? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If you want to go the total war route. They should throw the children of isis fighters off roof tops with their dads.They'll grow up looking for revenge regardless. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you want to go the total war route. They should throw the children of isis fighters off roof tops with their dads.They'll grow up looking for revenge regardless. "
...So are you condemning this??
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It is reported that Iraqi soldiers are throwing captured terrorists off rooftops, in the same manner that daish would use as a means of execution.
The soldiers, having suffered not inconsiderable casualties in their effort to destroy IS and the threat which its remnants still pose, are concerned that government officials may succumb to bribery and release some terrorists to fight again.
Can anyone blame the soldiers for excising the cancer which has caused so much death and destruction?"
I personally think us as in the UK has brought so many problems to our own door by having to many opinions on what goes on in other countries.
So if that's whats happening then that's whats happening, crack on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't think one war crime justifies another. "
That's very true but depends on wether the perpetrators give a fuck about "justification" or who has the right to "justify" to start with.
Context plays a large part I guess. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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How could any one say they are wrong , it will take extreme measures to tackle terrorism , I'm more surprised there hasn't been more revenge attacks by members of the British public on communities that have given terrorist that carried out attacks in the UK cover, |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The whole basis of fighting the ideology of such scum...is not to sink to their level.
It is understandable....but not really defensible."
You can't just give them a smack on the back of the hand tell them not to go killing innocent people again and let them walk away either , |
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"The whole basis of fighting the ideology of such scum...is not to sink to their level.
It is understandable....but not really defensible.
You can't just give them a smack on the back of the hand tell them not to go killing innocent people again and let them walk away either , "
It's lucky there are more options than a) thrown them off roofs or b) let them walk away, isn't it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The whole basis of fighting the ideology of such scum...is not to sink to their level.
It is understandable....but not really defensible.
You can't just give them a smack on the back of the hand tell them not to go killing innocent people again and let them walk away either ,
It's lucky there are more options than a) thrown them off roofs or b) let them walk away, isn't it"
What would you suggest ?
I agree 100% with what's happening , a bullet costs between 50 cent and 1 euro , scum like them can't justify one , |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It is reported that Iraqi soldiers are throwing captured terrorists off rooftops, in the same manner that daish would use as a means of execution.
The soldiers, having suffered not inconsiderable casualties in their effort to destroy IS and the threat which its remnants still pose, are concerned that government officials may succumb to bribery and release some terrorists to fight again.
Can anyone blame the soldiers for excising the cancer which has caused so much death and destruction?"
I know it's an old saying , and yes it's a war but ! Two wrongs still don't make a right ! Tho I can see why . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The whole basis of fighting the ideology of such scum...is not to sink to their level.
It is understandable....but not really defensible.
You can't just give them a smack on the back of the hand tell them not to go killing innocent people again and let them walk away either ,
It's lucky there are more options than a) thrown them off roofs or b) let them walk away, isn't it
What would you suggest ?
I agree 100% with what's happening , a bullet costs between 50 cent and 1 euro , scum like them can't justify one , "
They think nothing of driving a truck into crowded streets killing men women and children , why would any one care less how vermin like them are exterminated , |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some of you guys need to learn the difference between right and wrong.  "
What's right & wrong for us doesn't necessarily apply the same to other cultures around the world though.
That's probably the biggest difference between the developed western world and large swathes of the east, and it's that change we've been trying to impress through our military jaunts into their world that's created the shitty mess we have today. |
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"How could any one say they are wrong , it will take extreme measures to tackle terrorism , I'm more surprised there hasn't been more revenge attacks by members of the British public on communities that have given terrorist that carried out attacks in the UK cover, "
I'm sorry, which communities are those exactly? |
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"Some of you guys need to learn the difference between right and wrong.
What's right & wrong for us doesn't necessarily apply the same to other cultures around the world though.
That's probably the biggest difference between the developed western world and large swathes of the east, and it's that change we've been trying to impress through our military jaunts into their world that's created the shitty mess we have today."
I'm sorry, I'm usually quite PC but cultural relativism is bullshit past a certain point. Certain things are just wrong regardless of where you are. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some of you guys need to learn the difference between right and wrong.
What's right & wrong for us doesn't necessarily apply the same to other cultures around the world though.
That's probably the biggest difference between the developed western world and large swathes of the east, and it's that change we've been trying to impress through our military jaunts into their world that's created the shitty mess we have today.
I'm sorry, I'm usually quite PC but cultural relativism is bullshit past a certain point. Certain things are just wrong regardless of where you are."
From your Western culture view point yes, that's the crux of the issue though isn't it? |
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"Some of you guys need to learn the difference between right and wrong.
What's right & wrong for us doesn't necessarily apply the same to other cultures around the world though.
That's probably the biggest difference between the developed western world and large swathes of the east, and it's that change we've been trying to impress through our military jaunts into their world that's created the shitty mess we have today.
I'm sorry, I'm usually quite PC but cultural relativism is bullshit past a certain point. Certain things are just wrong regardless of where you are.
From your Western culture view point yes, that's the crux of the issue though isn't it?"
Nope. I think some things are relative but I also think some human values are universal. |
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"The whole basis of fighting the ideology of such scum...is not to sink to their level.
It is understandable....but not really defensible.
You can't just give them a smack on the back of the hand tell them not to go killing innocent people again and let them walk away either ,
It's lucky there are more options than a) thrown them off roofs or b) let them walk away, isn't it
What would you suggest ?
I agree 100% with what's happening , a bullet costs between 50 cent and 1 euro , scum like them can't justify one , "
I'd suggest that if we think we're the good guys in these types of conflict, we should act like it and not condone executions.
If enemy combatants have been captured, you don't then kill them,even if you think they are 'scum'. |
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"I don't think one war crime justifies another. "
Sorry, this is bullshit.
Warfare is the ultimate breakdown of international law and therefore like it or not there are no laws other than the laws of the jungle and survival when it comes to treatment of the enemy. If there is any crime then war itself is the crime. The reality is that 'war crimes' and 'crimes against humanity' are nothing more than a codified way for the winners of a war to extract vengeance on the leaders of losers. |
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"I'd suggest that if we think we're the good guys in these types of conflict, we should act like it and not condone executions.
If enemy combatants have been captured, you don't then kill them,even if you think they are 'scum'. "
I would suggest that you have not got a clue what you are talking about.
I would further suggest that if over the last 4/5/6 years you had seen a bunch of foreign thugs take over a part of Britain, kill every one of you mates that they got hold of, r@pe and turn into sex slaves to be bought and sold or just plain handed round for all to use every woman and girl who had entered puberty that the captured, you would not be so understanding and would probably have a big blunt knife along with a needle and thread so that you could castrate and then sew their cock and balls into their mouths of every one of the bastards you caught. I am honest enough with myself to say I know I would. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Execute a fanatical terrorist who will certainly make every effort to slaughter innocents again, given the opportunity?
Yes, definitely. "
Without due process or following the rules of armed conflict? No, not a good idea. |
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"Without due process or following the rules of armed conflict? No, not a good idea."
There are only 3 rules in war. Don't be captured by the enemy, don't be on the losing side and survive. If you break either of the first 2 rules you significantly lower your chances of not breaking the third. |
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"I'd suggest that if we think we're the good guys in these types of conflict, we should act like it and not condone executions.
If enemy combatants have been captured, you don't then kill them,even if you think they are 'scum'.
I would suggest that you have not got a clue what you are talking about.
I would further suggest that if over the last 4/5/6 years you had seen a bunch of foreign thugs take over a part of Britain, kill every one of you mates that they got hold of, r@pe and turn into sex slaves to be bought and sold or just plain handed round for all to use every woman and girl who had entered puberty that the captured, you would not be so understanding and would probably have a big blunt knife along with a needle and thread so that you could castrate and then sew their cock and balls into their mouths of every one of the bastards you caught. I am honest enough with myself to say I know I would. "
Uh, OK. Enjoy that rather odd fantasy.
You can suggest I don't have a clue, but my opinion is merely that we stick to the Geneva convention and don't descend to the level of executions, without any due process. That's what, you know, the British armed forces do.
Maybe they don't have a clue either? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The whole basis of fighting the ideology of such scum...is not to sink to their level.
It is understandable....but not really defensible.
You can't just give them a smack on the back of the hand tell them not to go killing innocent people again and let them walk away either , "
No. You round them up. Put them on trial and if (as is the case in Iraq,), the country of jurisdiction has the death penalty. You execute them....public ally as a message to the other potential scum. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Well in a country where people are stoned to death and hands cut off for stealing they've probably got off lightly. The blood letting goes on and on. I really don't know what the answer is.
How can these people ever become civilised when running in the background is this terrible fear of god and his retribution which makes being tossed off a bridge martyrdom. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Nope. I think some things are relative but I also think some human values are universal."
Obviously they are not though are they otherwise the whole planet would behave and act roughly the same. |
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"Uh, OK. Enjoy that rather odd fantasy.
You can suggest I don't have a clue, but my opinion is merely that we stick to the Geneva convention and don't descend to the level of executions, without any due process. That's what, you know, the British armed forces do.
Maybe they don't have a clue either? "
Unfortunately not a fantasy, but the reality of every war that has first hand accounts of the people who fought in them (usually given in the form of deathbed confessions) or glossed up or down to make the bloodletting sound heroic or despicable depending on who is doing the spinning, but all ignoring the reality of why it happens.
As for your opinion, I would say yep that is what it is, your uninformed opinion. The shame is that I explained to you in very graphic terms why you are being unrealistic and you glibly dismiss what I say calling it a fantasy. Therefore you manage to change your position from one of having an uninformed opinion to one of holding a deliberately uninformed opinion. There is a word for that, it is ignorant. (Adjective from the verb ignore which is defined as: refuse to take notice of or acknowledge; disregard intentionally.)
Congratulations. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well in a country where people are stoned to death and hands cut off for stealing they've probably got off lightly. The blood letting goes on and on. I really don't know what the answer is.
How can these people ever become civilised when running in the background is this terrible fear of god and his retribution which makes being tossed off a bridge martyrdom."
Do you think we are civilized.We excute at will those we deem enemies. We just keep a civilized distance with our drones. Giving us a disconnect from the barbarity .Its all done on a ipad or laptop.A reaper drone hitting a group of kids keeps are hands and conscious clean. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's the end they expected, to die in battle is no different than to die a captive of war.
This is what Muhammad would do to his captives. In their world they are doing them an honour.
If they survive it will be their duty to re establish a caliphate sharia or jihad. Or they will suffer imprisonment for life, which won't last long in those jails.
Let them live out there dreams and just go to heaven.
Muhammad "Bullshit be upon him" would be very proud of their actions and will have dutiful first class pre pubescent sex slaves ready for their arrival.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Muhammad's companions decided that "the men should be killed, the property divided, and the women and children taken as captives". Muhammad approved of the ruling, calling it similar to God's judgment,[49][50][52][53][54] after which all male members of the tribe who had reached puberty were beheaded[47][55] |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Bob you know for a fact the uk wud never target a group of kids that's just silly cizillians do get injured and killed but that happens in every war casualties of war "
I think over 100,000 dead children in iraq is just a number.I agree .If we laid all those little boys and girls out head to toe for us all to see .It wouldnt be a number.It would be collateral damage.All those kids also had mates that survived. They wont have happy memories of our invasion.Theyll grow up often psychological damaged and they'll be mine and your childrens problem .In the future.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We reap what we sow out of greed we follow blindly these people who govern us with there bullshit excuses
... ive seen people on here posting saying Tony Blair should be tried as a war criminal....and yet ive seen the very same people posting saying whats happening is ok....if you believe the bullshit your fed you will always be of the same thought.
These captives fighters should be held to task in a court of justice thats why these courts were formed and then if there found guilty of crimes they should be sentenced according to international law...i find it disgusting that people on here are condoning this type of action......THE WHOLE POINT AND THE MESS IN THESE COUNTRIES IS MAINLY DOWN TO OUR INVOLVEMENT .... the sooner we realise that the better  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Arab attitudes in war haven't changed much in 1500 years.
Both sides are acting within traditional ways.
Bringing our modern democratic style of justice into them could also be seen as an western intrusion.
Sharia law is the only recognised law of Islamic nations.
They have always been fighting amongst themselves with little encouragement.
Only when the penny drops that Muslim woman are sex slaves and that Muhammad was just a cleaver narcissist. Will we see improvements.
The war on terror is stopping the terror behind closed doors here.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't think one war crime justifies another.
Sorry, this is bullshit.
Warfare is the ultimate breakdown of international law and therefore like it or not there are no laws other than the laws of the jungle and survival when it comes to treatment of the enemy. If there is any crime then war itself is the crime. The reality is that 'war crimes' and 'crimes against humanity' are nothing more than a codified way for the winners of a war to extract vengeance on the leaders of losers."
Willwill
You are a smart guy. If you perpetuate violence how do you ever find peace?
Kill em all until they're dead?
Whack a mole?
I thought you were a free thinker but you still have plenty of the military brainwashing |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Bob you know for a fact the uk wud never target a group of kids that's just silly cizillians do get injured and killed but that happens in every war casualties of war I think over 100,000 dead children in iraq is just a number.I agree .If we laid all those little boys and girls out head to toe for us all to see .It wouldnt be a number.It would be collateral damage.All those kids also had mates that survived. They wont have happy memories of our invasion.Theyll grow up often psychological damaged and they'll be mine and your childrens problem .In the future."
Peace and prosperity is the only answer...
Would the blood hungry here think it would be wise to translate the same rhetoric to Northern Ireland, thinking retrospectively?
"kill em all, terrorist scum" was the phrase I believe! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Bob you know for a fact the uk wud never target a group of kids that's just silly cizillians do get injured and killed but that happens in every war casualties of war I think over 100,000 dead children in iraq is just a number.I agree .If we laid all those little boys and girls out head to toe for us all to see .It wouldnt be a number.It would be collateral damage.All those kids also had mates that survived. They wont have happy memories of our invasion.Theyll grow up often psychological damaged and they'll be mine and your childrens problem .In the future.
Peace and prosperity is the only answer...
Would the blood hungry here think it would be wise to translate the same rhetoric to Northern Ireland, thinking retrospectively?
"kill em all, terrorist scum" was the phrase I believe! "
I agree you have to stop the cycle of violence .Only then can you have peace and generation that are born into peace.
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"Willwill
You are a smart guy. If you perpetuate violence how do you ever find peace?
Kill em all until they're dead?
Whack a mole?
I thought you were a free thinker but you still have plenty of the military brainwashing "
Thanks for the compliment. I think you and many others misunderstand me when I speak on military matters. I do not make moral judgments, I leave that to others, I just explain the realities of situations. Most of the time they are not what any of us would want but what we want and what we get are often poles apart.
Now for your question, how do we ever find peace?
Answer:
We don't. It does not take 2 to start a war, it takes 1 aggressor. The more you appease an aggressor the more confident they become and the more followers they gain so eventually when opposed the more bloody and violent the conflict. The only way to beat an aggressor is to break their will to fight, and as aggressors have proxies do the fighting for them unfortunately that means killing their proxies until eventually no more are willing to sacrifice themselves for the aggressor and then killing the aggressor and destroying the apparatus and machinery they constructed to prosecute their aggression. So unfortunately it really is a case of kill them all until they run away. Fighters captured in battle are not running away. Unpleasant but a fact.
So yes it is a case of whack a mole.
I am a free thinker that is why I refuse to ignore the lessons of history. The most important lesson of history is there is always someone who wants to take anything you have and if you have not got the strength and will to defend what you have it will be taken from you.
Returning to the original point of the tread and the counter of the due process of law must rule. My whole point is due process takes a back seat when fighters are brutalized by war and even British military who are (or were in my day) the most highly trained and disciplined troops on the planet have been know to lose control and illtreat and execute enemy captured combatants.
It is nothing to do with morals or right and wrong, it is purely to do with psychology and what happens to people in wars. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Seriously you have to lead by example and sit on your hands at times.
The war on Islamism is being fought right now here with the empowerment of Woman and equality laws.
The more terrorist attacks the more they're shooting themselves in the foot.
As to how these prisoners are being delt with. I'm not sure recovery programmes would work.
AND setting them free is a bad idea.
Imprisonment out there, nasty.
Geneva convention is a distant echo in these wars.
We turn a blind eye to Islamic religious grooming and slavery and deals and sale of chattle in this country and are called Islamaphobic if we disapprove.
A seriously fucked up world.
Difficult times.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Seriously you have to lead by example and sit on your hands at times.
The war on Islamism is being fought right now here with the empowerment of Woman and equality laws.
The more terrorist attacks the more they're shooting themselves in the foot.
As to how these prisoners are being delt with. I'm not sure recovery programmes would work.
AND setting them free is a bad idea.
Imprisonment out there, nasty.
Geneva convention is a distant echo in these wars.
We turn a blind eye to Islamic religious grooming and slavery and deals and sale of chattle in this country and are called Islamaphobic if we disapprove.
A seriously fucked up world.
Difficult times.
"
.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Willwill
You are a smart guy. If you perpetuate violence how do you ever find peace?
Kill em all until they're dead?
Whack a mole?
I thought you were a free thinker but you still have plenty of the military brainwashing
Thanks for the compliment. I think you and many others misunderstand me when I speak on military matters. I do not make moral judgments, I leave that to others, I just explain the realities of situations. Most of the time they are not what any of us would want but what we want and what we get are often poles apart.
Now for your question, how do we ever find peace?
Answer:
We don't. It does not take 2 to start a war, it takes 1 aggressor. The more you appease an aggressor the more confident they become and the more followers they gain so eventually when opposed the more bloody and violent the conflict. The only way to beat an aggressor is to break their will to fight, and as aggressors have proxies do the fighting for them unfortunately that means killing their proxies until eventually no more are willing to sacrifice themselves for the aggressor and then killing the aggressor and destroying the apparatus and machinery they constructed to prosecute their aggression. So unfortunately it really is a case of kill them all until they run away. Fighters captured in battle are not running away. Unpleasant but a fact.
So yes it is a case of whack a mole.
I am a free thinker that is why I refuse to ignore the lessons of history. The most important lesson of history is there is always someone who wants to take anything you have and if you have not got the strength and will to defend what you have it will be taken from you.
Returning to the original point of the tread and the counter of the due process of law must rule. My whole point is due process takes a back seat when fighters are brutalized by war and even British military who are (or were in my day) the most highly trained and disciplined troops on the planet have been know to lose control and illtreat and execute enemy captured combatants.
It is nothing to do with morals or right and wrong, it is purely to do with psychology and what happens to people in wars."
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. (Churchill) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To successfully remove a cancer some good flesh Will have to be removed with it ,
If any one here was told they had aggressive cancer in there foot and the doctor said to be sure to save your life we are taking your leg off what would you say ?
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"Seriously you have to lead by example and sit on your hands at times.
The war on Islamism is being fought right now here with the empowerment of Woman and equality laws.
The more terrorist attacks the more they're shooting themselves in the foot.
As to how these prisoners are being delt with. I'm not sure recovery programmes would work.
AND setting them free is a bad idea.
Imprisonment out there, nasty.
Geneva convention is a distant echo in these wars.
We turn a blind eye to Islamic religious grooming and slavery and deals and sale of chattle in this country and are called Islamaphobic if we disapprove.
A seriously fucked up world.
Difficult times.
"
Two of you now...
I am reminded of something the Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal said...
For evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing. |
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By *omaMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Some of you guys need to learn the difference between right and wrong. "
Our right and wrong are completely different from other societies right and wrong.
Would ISIS think twice about murder and executions? take for example the beheadings and the unbelievable burning alive of the Jordanian pilot. . .
No, what's good for the goose is good for the gander
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some of you guys need to learn the difference between right and wrong.
Our right and wrong are completely different from other societies right and wrong.
Would ISIS think twice about murder and executions? take for example the beheadings and the unbelievable burning alive of the Jordanian pilot. . .
No, what's good for the goose is good for the gander
"
Ok these are the types of morals we are trying to impose on them ....our morals i believe and thats why we invaded yes invaded these countries....we let the genie out of the bottle no one else but us...so saying thats it a fair justification for us invading and trying to impose western values on them....
here's a scenario....i murdered your son you murdered me...who would be up in front of the court for murder or at the very least manslaughter ? |
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"Some of you guys need to learn the difference between right and wrong.
Our right and wrong are completely different from other societies right and wrong.
Would ISIS think twice about murder and executions? take for example the beheadings and the unbelievable burning alive of the Jordanian pilot. . .
No, what's good for the goose is good for the gander
Ok these are the types of morals we are trying to impose on them ....our morals i believe and thats why we invaded yes invaded these countries....we let the genie out of the bottle no one else but us...so saying thats it a fair justification for us invading and trying to impose western values on them....
here's a scenario....i murdered your son you murdered me...who would be up in front of the court for murder or at the very least manslaughter ? "
. Here's another scenario for ya the west keeps its nose out no arms sales no training of troops no money nothing just let them get on with there own buissness how long before the west is blamed for abandoning the Middle East ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some of you guys need to learn the difference between right and wrong.
Our right and wrong are completely different from other societies right and wrong.
Would ISIS think twice about murder and executions? take for example the beheadings and the unbelievable burning alive of the Jordanian pilot. . .
No, what's good for the goose is good for the gander
Ok these are the types of morals we are trying to impose on them ....our morals i believe and thats why we invaded yes invaded these countries....we let the genie out of the bottle no one else but us...so saying thats it a fair justification for us invading and trying to impose western values on them....
here's a scenario....i murdered your son you murdered me...who would be up in front of the court for murder or at the very least manslaughter ? . Here's another scenario for ya the west keeps its nose out no arms sales no training of troops no money nothing just let them get on with there own buissness how long before the west is blamed for abandoning the Middle East ?"
I agree they should and should had no doubt about that....we ARE the cause of all this shit no matter what slant you want to put on it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"so it all started when Iraq was invaded then was a peaceful place before hand lol"
Nah a longtime before that...maybe go back a hundred years or so....but the point is WE removed the people who kept the genie in the bottle  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Their values are corrupted by an encouragement to act narcissitically, as their "so called" Profit did.
It's not as easy as dealing with the Nazi youth after the war, as the religion promotes the behaviour.
We have to get on with our modern lives and shun those living in the dark until they can see the light.
Can't believe its 2017 and were still dealing with this pathetic shit.
Should have built a wall and educated the fuck, sorry kicked the living reality into anyone inside it.
This is what happens when you fill kids heads with mad dog shit.
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"so it all started when Iraq was invaded then was a peaceful place before hand lol
Nah a longtime before that...maybe go back a hundred years or so....but the point is WE removed the people who kept the genie in the bottle "
aw yes agree 100% with u there thort u were blaming the Iraq war on all there troubles that whole region is not suited to our democratic way of life |
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"so it all started when Iraq was invaded then was a peaceful place before hand lol"
It all started with the Mesopotamians who invented cuneiform writing to keep track of who owned what and who. So in reality this is not an Islamic problem it is an Arab problem as witnessed by how the Christian Druze Militias acted in the Lebanon and the Arab Jews act in Israel. |
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By *omaMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
it doesn't matter who started what, when or where, the reality is the present.
I have no answers as to how this will end, no one does.
The fact remains these people, who control and run ISIS are butcher's. They have zero regard for human life, whether it's their own countrymen or us , the infidel.
Let them reap what they sow. If that means execution by the Iraqi fighters then so be it.
No sympathy at this door |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" Or keep our noses out let em crack on "
That would be a start.
Willwills point about the bully trying to take your stuff has no relevance to the UK or USA so stay at home and do your "that's the reality of war" thinking from your armchair please
A lot of it is bullshit rationalisation of superfluous atrocities
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
For evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing."
It's a nice platitude but it's contingent on not fucking it up as you go and multiplying the number of enemies you face.
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"Will will you avoided my point about Northern Ireland.
There's a history lesson for you to learn from about how to make progress through peace. "
Yep, NI is a very emotive subject and I have been considering what I can reasonably say...
I am ready to upset many now.
The Good Friday agreement did not come about because the Brits defeated the provos. (Although that is a good story to sell this side of the water.) Nor did it come about because of a bomb killing 2 little boys in Warrington.
The Good Friday agreement came about because of 3 attacks.
Firstly the Grand Hotel Brighton bombing. (The first time the tory leadership had been directly targeted). Even as Thatcher was giving her take on churchill's 'We will never surrender' speech she had already given the orders to open secret peace talks with the Republicans in order to stop any more direct attacks on the tory government.
Then when it became apparent to the republicans that the tories were living up to the UK's nickname of 'perfidious albion' and had no intention of making peace there was the mortar attack on Downing Street that kick started the peace talks propper.
Finally when yet again the British government were seen to be stalling again there was the (what I believe was deliberately) failed attack the night before the Warrington town centre bomb on the Warrington gas works that showed the tory government that if they did not start negotiating in good faith then next time it would not be a bomb in a town or commercial centre that would kill one of#r two and would cause a little disruption to commerce. They would have to cope with a bomb being used to trigger a major explosion that would wreak havoc on any town that had a used gas holder in or flammable chemical store in an urban area.
I am convinced it was that final covert threat that forced the tories to conditionally surrender, the condition being that the Republicans did not divulge the true nature of the settlement. In support of this theory I would point out that since the Warrington bombing just about all if not all urban gas holders have been decommissioned and most bulk flammable or poisonous chemical store have been moved out of populated areas by changes in planning and fire safety regulations.
Sometimes you have to look beyond the obvious and below the surface to see the reality. |
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"
For evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing.
It's a nice platitude but it's contingent on not fucking it up as you go and multiplying the number of enemies you face.
"
Now there we agree. There is much to much time and effort spent sharing out the pork that should be spent on nation building after regime destabilisation and change by means of war. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Will will you avoided my point about Northern Ireland.
There's a history lesson for you to learn from about how to make progress through peace.
Yep, NI is a very emotive subject and I have been considering what I can reasonably say...
I am ready to upset many now.
The Good Friday agreement did not come about because the Brits defeated the provos. (Although that is a good story to sell this side of the water.) Nor did it come about because of a bomb killing 2 little boys in Warrington.
The Good Friday agreement came about because of 3 attacks.
Firstly the Grand Hotel Brighton bombing. (The first time the tory leadership had been directly targeted). Even as Thatcher was giving her take on churchill's 'We will never surrender' speech she had already given the orders to open secret peace talks with the Republicans in order to stop any more direct attacks on the tory government.
Then when it became apparent to the republicans that the tories were living up to the UK's nickname of 'perfidious albion' and had no intention of making peace there was the mortar attack on Downing Street that kick started the peace talks propper.
Finally when yet again the British government were seen to be stalling again there was the (what I believe was deliberately) failed attack the night before the Warrington town centre bomb on the Warrington gas works that showed the tory government that if they did not start negotiating in good faith then next time it would not be a bomb in a town or commercial centre that would kill one of#r two and would cause a little disruption to commerce. They would have to cope with a bomb being used to trigger a major explosion that would wreak havoc on any town that had a used gas holder in or flammable chemical store in an urban area.
I am convinced it was that final covert threat that forced the tories to conditionally surrender, the condition being that the Republicans did not divulge the true nature of the settlement. In support of this theory I would point out that since the Warrington bombing just about all if not all urban gas holders have been decommissioned and most bulk flammable or poisonous chemical store have been moved out of populated areas by changes in planning and fire safety regulations.
Sometimes you have to look beyond the obvious and below the surface to see the reality. "
Very well worded |
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"I'd suggest that if we think we're the good guys in these types of conflict, we should act like it and not condone executions.
If enemy combatants have been captured, you don't then kill them,even if you think they are 'scum'.
I would suggest that you have not got a clue what you are talking about.
I would further suggest that if over the last 4/5/6 years you had seen a bunch of foreign thugs take over a part of Britain, kill every one of you mates that they got hold of, r@pe and turn into sex slaves to be bought and sold or just plain handed round for all to use every woman and girl who had entered puberty that the captured, you would not be so understanding and would probably have a big blunt knife along with a needle and thread so that you could castrate and then sew their cock and balls into their mouths of every one of the bastards you caught. I am honest enough with myself to say I know I would. "
And I'm honest enough to say, whilst I might want them dead, I would definitely not want to do that to anyone no matter who they were or what they'd done.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Sometimes the shit gets cleared out, often it's just left to fester and infect.
Some countries are more proactive to trying to clean their shit up more than others.
It happens and is possibly seen as that's how you do things in certain places by many people, other places let them off relatively scott free considering what they've done. |
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"Bob you know for a fact the uk wud never target a group of kids that's just silly cizillians do get injured and killed but that happens in every war casualties of war I think over 100,000 dead children in iraq is just a number.I agree .If we laid all those little boys and girls out head to toe for us all to see .It wouldnt be a number.It would be collateral damage.All those kids also had mates that survived. They wont have happy memories of our invasion.Theyll grow up often psychological damaged and they'll be mine and your childrens problem .In the future.
Peace and prosperity is the only answer...
Would the blood hungry here think it would be wise to translate the same rhetoric to Northern Ireland, thinking retrospectively?
"kill em all, terrorist scum" was the phrase I believe! "
Honestly and regrettably I think many here would actually think that. |
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"Some of you guys need to learn the difference between right and wrong.
Our right and wrong are completely different from other societies right and wrong.
Would ISIS think twice about murder and executions? take for example the beheadings and the unbelievable burning alive of the Jordanian pilot. . .
No, what's good for the goose is good for the gander
Ok these are the types of morals we are trying to impose on them ....our morals i believe and thats why we invaded yes invaded these countries....we let the genie out of the bottle no one else but us...so saying thats it a fair justification for us invading and trying to impose western values on them....
here's a scenario....i murdered your son you murdered me...who would be up in front of the court for murder or at the very least manslaughter ? "
If you murdered his son and then he murdered you then he would be the only one in court for murder as you would be unable to stand trial as you would be dead. No one would or could be charged with manslaughter as you've already said in your original scenario that you murder his son and he murders you. If you said killed rather than murder then, if it could be shown that 'he' was not in full control of his faculties due to the grief caused by you killing his son, the possibility of a charge of manslaughter might exist. |
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"And I'm honest enough to say, whilst I might want them dead, I would definitely not want to do that to anyone no matter who they were or what they'd done.
"
Have you any military experience? Have you experience of fighting a battle? Do you have any idea how angry people become when they experience violent conflict up close and personal?
From your answer above I suspect that if you have any military experience it has not involved teeth arms (or even close support) active 'war fighting' service.
So working on the principle I am correct are you not lying to yourself when you say you are ' I'm honest enough to say, whilst I might want them dead, I would definitely not want to do that to anyone no matter who they were or what they'd done.'? Because how can you know how you will react to a situation unless you have been confronted with it or something similar before? |
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It's their way of life, life is cheap to them.
What seems harsh to us is perfectly normal to them and the same over here, we do thing that they wouldn't allow.
Who is right and who is wrong? That depends what side your on. |
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"And I'm honest enough to say, whilst I might want them dead, I would definitely not want to do that to anyone no matter who they were or what they'd done.
Have you any military experience? Have you experience of fighting a battle? Do you have any idea how angry people become when they experience violent conflict up close and personal?
From your answer above I suspect that if you have any military experience it has not involved teeth arms (or even close support) active 'war fighting' service.
So working on the principle I am correct are you not lying to yourself when you say you are ' I'm honest enough to say, whilst I might want them dead, I would definitely not want to do that to anyone no matter who they were or what they'd done.'? Because how can you know how you will react to a situation unless you have been confronted with it or something similar before?"
I don't accept your basic premise that in order to understand something you have to have experienced it yourself but, even if you are correct in that premise and your assumption that those who disagree with you have no direct experience of conflict as you do (and genuine respect to you) I still don't accept that I would act as you say and even if, due to temporary loss of control brought on by the stress of battle, I did I would still not believe that my actions were right or correct.
Discipline and lawful authority, as I'm sure you know, is of paramount importance in any professional army. One of the primary reasons for that discipline is precisely to avoid the sort of situation you describe from happening. A professional army and a professional soldier in it acts under lawful authority within defined rules of engagement. Whilst in the heat of battle it may be possible to excuse some deviation from those rules of engagement I can see no circumstances where capturing people, dragging them to the top of a high building and throwing them off would meet any reasonable rules of engagement. If such action was taking by a British soldier they would rightly be held to account. |
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"I don't accept your basic premise that in order to understand something you have to have experienced it yourself but, even if you are correct in that premise and your assumption that those who disagree with you have no direct experience of conflict as you do (and genuine respect to you) I still don't accept that I would act as you say and even if, due to temporary loss of control brought on by the stress of battle, I did I would still not believe that my actions were right or correct.
Discipline and lawful authority, as I'm sure you know, is of paramount importance in any professional army. One of the primary reasons for that discipline is precisely to avoid the sort of situation you describe from happening. A professional army and a professional soldier in it acts under lawful authority within defined rules of engagement. Whilst in the heat of battle it may be possible to excuse some deviation from those rules of engagement I can see no circumstances where capturing people, dragging them to the top of a high building and throwing them off would meet any reasonable rules of engagement. If such action was taking by a British soldier they would rightly be held to account. "
Firstly, what is there to respect? I did not join up to fight, I joined up to climb. If I had any inkling of how my military career was going to develop i would not have joined in the first place.
Secondly, I left the military as quickly as I could after the Falklands and it has taken me decades to get to a place where I am willing to talk (even if in the most general terms) about what I personally experienced and saw others experience.
Thirdly, I am not sure if you have noticed or not, but there are many serving and former service personnel here who will have experienced 'war fighting'. Do you think if I were not correct in what I am saying that at least one of them would have called me out for it by now?
Finally, you and others keep talking about right and wrong, and applying the standards of behaviour considered normal and acceptable in a 'civilised society' to warfare. As no point have I said anything about right or wrong, nor have I made any moral judgement (I leave that to those who have not and probably would refuse to serve if called to), all I have done is point out what happens and why. that you and other effectively say: 'That has nothing to do with it, we need to impose a set of continually growing arbitrary rules on the military we demand fight on our orders and on our behalf, so that we can claim to be 'more civilised' because we have 'sanitised' warfare (something that by its very nature can never be sanitised). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You can't use traumatic stressors in the heat of an unjust war as justification for setting aside morality.
Tell me what essential purpose war in the falklands had.....
You were collectively the tyrannical agressor you condemned above in that situation (a land grab) were you not?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" we demand fight on our orders and on our behalf"
On our brainwashing you mean. A notional sense of civic duty is how you trick good men into doing terrible things
Violence begets violence and is not the path to peace |
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"Violence begets violence and is not the path to peace "
That is not correct...
It is true that limited violence begets violence. Further, 'proportionate' responses to violence encourage and promote further violence and escalation in the intensity of that violence.
However, the use of sudden, unwarned massive overpowering and sustained violence (especially when it continues after it is no longer necessary) has the opposite effect and causes any who would normally initiate or respond to violence with violence to choose not to escalate but to attempt to deescalate. |
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"You can't use traumatic stressors in the heat of an unjust war as justification for setting aside morality.
Tell me what essential purpose war in the falklands had.....
You were collectively the tyrannical agressor you condemned above in that situation (a land grab) were you not?
"
In no way would I wish to defend the many crimes of the British empire - I suspect that Britain may have liquidated more people than the Third Reich, albeit over a longer period - I think it is difficult to describe the repulsion of the Argentinian junta's invasion of a centuries old community as a land grab.
Yes, the Falkland Islanders are settlers, like the Argentinians. But one society created its society on the basis of ethnic cleansing (elements of which, discrimination marginalisation and impoverishment, continue to this day), whereas the Falklanders displaced nobody and their islands have never formed part of the Argentinian state. |
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