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Euratom again

By *oi_Lucy OP Couple over a year ago

Barbados

Great, so here is the official response from the Nuclear Industry Association about the govts position paper on Euratom:

https://www.niauk.org/media-centre/press-releases/nia-reaction-government-position-paper-euratom/

The opening line is great: "While containing very little detail..."

and then we have the UK Nuclear Chief stating that it will cost the UK taxpayers more to be an associate member of Euratom than it would do to stay in:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-40602749/uk-nuclear-chief-on-euratom-deal?

Good work HMG! Isn't there a Monty Python sketch about haggling in which the haggler keeps going the wrong direction?

-Matt

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

"Great, so here is the official response from the Nuclear Industry Association about the govts position paper on Euratom:

https://www.niauk.org/media-centre/press-releases/nia-reaction-government-position-paper-euratom/

The opening line is great: "While containing very little detail..."

and then we have the UK Nuclear Chief stating that it will cost the UK taxpayers more to be an associate member of Euratom than it would do to stay in:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-40602749/uk-nuclear-chief-on-euratom-deal?

Good work HMG! Isn't there a Monty Python sketch about haggling in which the haggler keeps going the wrong direction?

-Matt"

Euratom is linked legally to the EU, so by virtue of leaving the EU, then we have to leave Euratom. We do not have the choice of "staying in Euratom" but other options are available to us.

The EU will need to tread a little carefully here, as we do hold approx 30 tonnes of EU nuclear waste in storage. Although subject to commercial contracts, I'm not sure certain EU countries would want to see it returned.

We also have the huge fusion project at Culham, near Oxford. This is largely funded by the EU, and whilst they may want to move it to the EU mainland, it's not as simple as moving an office.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"Great, so here is the official response from the Nuclear Industry Association about the govts position paper on Euratom:

https://www.niauk.org/media-centre/press-releases/nia-reaction-government-position-paper-euratom/

The opening line is great: "While containing very little detail..."

and then we have the UK Nuclear Chief stating that it will cost the UK taxpayers more to be an associate member of Euratom than it would do to stay in:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-40602749/uk-nuclear-chief-on-euratom-deal?

Good work HMG! Isn't there a Monty Python sketch about haggling in which the haggler keeps going the wrong direction?

-Matt

Euratom is linked legally to the EU, so by virtue of leaving the EU, then we have to leave Euratom. We do not have the choice of "staying in Euratom" but other options are available to us.

We also have the huge fusion project at Culham, near Oxford. This is largely funded by the EU, and whilst they may want to move it to the EU mainland, it's not as simple as moving an office."

I think you'll find its a seperate legal entity

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"Great, so here is the official response from the Nuclear Industry Association about the govts position paper on Euratom:

https://www.niauk.org/media-centre/press-releases/nia-reaction-government-position-paper-euratom/

The opening line is great: "While containing very little detail..."

and then we have the UK Nuclear Chief stating that it will cost the UK taxpayers more to be an associate member of Euratom than it would do to stay in:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-40602749/uk-nuclear-chief-on-euratom-deal?

Good work HMG! Isn't there a Monty Python sketch about haggling in which the haggler keeps going the wrong direction?

-Matt"

It must surely only be a matter of time before the most ardent of those wishing to destroy the country (The Brexiter) realised that these ongoing and continuous embarrassments will lead to the death of Brexit - not by a killer blow, but the gradual and never ending death by a thousand cuts.

Sadly it could have all been avoided had the Govt appointed a cross party Brexit alliance to negotiate our exit and thereby carry the country by compromise. Instead Brexit is being driven ideologically by an ideologically driven Govt that is simply incapable of uniting the country.

The Terry's chocolate orange analogy to Brexit is as good an analogy as I have heard. One little knock and all the divergent pieces fall apart.

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

"Great, so here is the official response from the Nuclear Industry Association about the govts position paper on Euratom:

https://www.niauk.org/media-centre/press-releases/nia-reaction-government-position-paper-euratom/

The opening line is great: "While containing very little detail..."

and then we have the UK Nuclear Chief stating that it will cost the UK taxpayers more to be an associate member of Euratom than it would do to stay in:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-40602749/uk-nuclear-chief-on-euratom-deal?

Good work HMG! Isn't there a Monty Python sketch about haggling in which the haggler keeps going the wrong direction?

-Matt

Euratom is linked legally to the EU, so by virtue of leaving the EU, then we have to leave Euratom. We do not have the choice of "staying in Euratom" but other options are available to us.

We also have the huge fusion project at Culham, near Oxford. This is largely funded by the EU, and whilst they may want to move it to the EU mainland, it's not as simple as moving an office.

I think you'll find its a seperate legal entity

There is something called EUROFusion, but I thought that was some crappy singing contest.

Happy to be educated if anyone knows more.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

British companies involved in fusion may lose half a billion in contracts connected with ITER. The largest experimental fusion reactor on earth.

Funding for clean power for the future is at stake and we have some of best research labs going in sustainable fusion .

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

So this is what Euratom does. Please can one of the Brexiters explain to me exactly what part of their mission do you disagree with and think that we should leave as a result of?

a. Promote research and ensure the dissemination of technical information

b. Establish uniform safety standards to protect the health of workers and of

the general public and ensure that they are applied

c. Facilitate investment and ensure, particularly by encouraging ventures

on the part of undertakings, the establishment of the basic installations

necessary for the development of nuclear energy in the Community

d. Ensure that all users in the Community receive a regular and equitable

supply of ores and nuclear fuels

e. Make certain, by appropriate supervision, that nuclear materials are not

diverted to purposes other than those for which they are intended

f. Exercise the right of ownership conferred upon it with respect to special

ssile materials

g. Ensure wide commercial outlets and access to the best technical facilities

by the creation of a common market in specialised materials and equipment, by the free movement of capital for investment in the eld of nuclear energy and by freedom of employment for specialists within the Community

h. Establish with other countries and international organisations such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

I found item h to be particularly interesting.

Establish with other countries and international organisations such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy

And yet you imply that because we're no longer a member of euratom, they won't deal with us.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"I found item h to be particularly interesting.

Establish with other countries and international organisations such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy

And yet you imply that because we're no longer a member of euratom, they won't deal with us."

Sorry, the question was obviously too complicated for you, I'll try rewording it. Why do you want to leave Euratom?

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"I found item h to be particularly interesting.

Establish with other countries and international organisations such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy

And yet you imply that because we're no longer a member of euratom, they won't deal with us.

Sorry, the question was obviously too complicated for you, I'll try rewording it. Why do you want to leave Euratom? "

Because it has the letters E U R in its name. That's a good enough reason, isn't it?

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By *xplicitlyricsMan over a year ago

south dublin

why would the nuclear waste be returned to the EU? Thats clearly not going to happen. Businesses were paid to take the waste and now its Britains to manage which theyve begun preparing for.

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

why would the nuclear waste be returned to the EU? Thats clearly not going to happen. Businesses were paid to take the waste and now its Britains to manage which theyve begun preparing for."

My belief is that we are paid to store it safely, and although Euratom technically owns all of the waste stored here, it still belongs to the country of origin.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

why would the nuclear waste be returned to the EU? Thats clearly not going to happen. Businesses were paid to take the waste and now its Britains to manage which theyve begun preparing for.

My belief is that we are paid to store it safely, and although Euratom technically owns all of the waste stored here, it still belongs to the country of origin."

That will buy us some goodwill with the EU if we start threatening dumping nuclear waste on them.

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

why would the nuclear waste be returned to the EU? Thats clearly not going to happen. Businesses were paid to take the waste and now its Britains to manage which theyve begun preparing for.

My belief is that we are paid to store it safely, and although Euratom technically owns all of the waste stored here, it still belongs to the country of origin.

That will buy us some goodwill with the EU if we start threatening dumping nuclear waste on them.

That's not exactly what I said though!

The ownership of this waste, and everything nuclear, is up for negotiation. How do you think the press will react, if the EU and Euratom decide to take away all the good bits but leave us with all the bad bits? Can't have the research and jobs but you can have the German waste.

Structured negotiations need to be responsible on this issue.

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By *oi_Lucy OP Couple over a year ago

Barbados

May announced in the Conservative party conference last year that we would not allow the ECJ to to adjudicate over maters. This was not something that had ever been said before. According to Davis' chief of staff, this absolutist approach had 'hamstrung' the negotiation efforts.

There is associate membership of Euratom, but I believe it still requires acknowledgement that the ECJ is supreme in legal matters related to this. But it is something May is hard against. Maybe Davis does realise this and hence why 'associate membership' was not mentioned in the HMG position paper of Euratom. It just says some waffle about us wanting to build similar relations to what we had before.

-Matt

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

"I found item h to be particularly interesting.

Establish with other countries and international organisations such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy

And yet you imply that because we're no longer a member of euratom, they won't deal with us.

Sorry, the question was obviously too complicated for you, I'll try rewording it. Why do you want to leave Euratom? "

Where have I said i do?

Now, are you saying that the EU, in the event that we do leave Euratom, would not seek to "Establish with (the UK) such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy"?

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"I found item h to be particularly interesting.

Establish with other countries and international organisations such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy

And yet you imply that because we're no longer a member of euratom, they won't deal with us.

Sorry, the question was obviously too complicated for you, I'll try rewording it. Why do you want to leave Euratom?

Where have I said i do?

Now, are you saying that the EU, in the event that we do leave Euratom, would not seek to "Establish with (the UK) such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy"?"

Do you think the UK should leave Euratom?

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"I found item h to be particularly interesting.

Establish with other countries and international organisations such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy

And yet you imply that because we're no longer a member of euratom, they won't deal with us.

Sorry, the question was obviously too complicated for you, I'll try rewording it. Why do you want to leave Euratom?

Where have I said i do?

Now, are you saying that the EU, in the event that we do leave Euratom, would not seek to "Establish with (the UK) such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy"?

Do you think the UK should leave Euratom? "

What you are doing here is flushing out the Nationalistic nonsense that festers in the minds of most Brexiters. Yes to a complicated and guarded exchange of views with foreigners but no close alliances or agreements, or indeed anything that suggests you could be seen as been of equal standing to The Brits and the way that we do things.

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

"I found item h to be particularly interesting.

Establish with other countries and international organisations such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy

And yet you imply that because we're no longer a member of euratom, they won't deal with us.

Sorry, the question was obviously too complicated for you, I'll try rewording it. Why do you want to leave Euratom?

Where have I said i do?

Now, are you saying that the EU, in the event that we do leave Euratom, would not seek to "Establish with (the UK) such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy"?

Do you think the UK should leave Euratom? "

The Euratom treaty says that Article 50 of the EU Treaty—the legal rule governing withdrawal from the EU — applies to Euratom too.

That could mean that withdrawal from one necessarily means withdrawal from the other, in which case trying to stay in Euratom (but not the EU) is futile anyway. Or it could mean only that the same process applies to leaving either body, but it’s not necessary to leave them both at the same time. Even in that case, staying as a full member in Euratom would be awkward, since the Euratom treaty also says that the rules on the EU institutions apply to Euratom. That means the UK would stay part of the ECJ, the European Parliament and the European Commission.

So it's not a case of do I think we should leave Euratom, as I think it likely we have no choice but to.

Now are you saying that, because we are leaving the EU, the EU would not seek to "Establish with (the UK) such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy"? And if not, why not?

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By *oi_Lucy OP Couple over a year ago

Barbados

"I found item h to be particularly interesting.

Establish with other countries and international organisations such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy

And yet you imply that because we're no longer a member of euratom, they won't deal with us.

Sorry, the question was obviously too complicated for you, I'll try rewording it. Why do you want to leave Euratom?

Where have I said i do?

Now, are you saying that the EU, in the event that we do leave Euratom, would not seek to "Establish with (the UK) such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy"?

Do you think the UK should leave Euratom?

The Euratom treaty says that Article 50 of the EU Treaty—the legal rule governing withdrawal from the EU — applies to Euratom too.

So it's not a case of do I think we should leave Euratom, as I think it likely we have no choice but to.

Exactly. Not only that, but May deliberately and specifically put in the A50 notice that we would be leaving Euratom as well. So yes, we are leaving Euratom.

So, do we think that the 52% who voted to leave, voted to leave Euratom? I doubt it. I personally had never even heard of it before the referendum.

-Matt

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"I found item h to be particularly interesting.

Establish with other countries and international organisations such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy

And yet you imply that because we're no longer a member of euratom, they won't deal with us.

Sorry, the question was obviously too complicated for you, I'll try rewording it. Why do you want to leave Euratom?

Where have I said i do?

Now, are you saying that the EU, in the event that we do leave Euratom, would not seek to "Establish with (the UK) such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy"?

Do you think the UK should leave Euratom?

The Euratom treaty says that Article 50 of the EU Treaty—the legal rule governing withdrawal from the EU — applies to Euratom too.

So it's not a case of do I think we should leave Euratom, as I think it likely we have no choice but to.

But why have we got no choice? I thought the Brexit argument is that we simply tell the EU what we are going to do?

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

"I found item h to be particularly interesting.

Establish with other countries and international organisations such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy

And yet you imply that because we're no longer a member of euratom, they won't deal with us.

Sorry, the question was obviously too complicated for you, I'll try rewording it. Why do you want to leave Euratom?

Where have I said i do?

Now, are you saying that the EU, in the event that we do leave Euratom, would not seek to "Establish with (the UK) such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy"?

Do you think the UK should leave Euratom?

The Euratom treaty says that Article 50 of the EU Treaty—the legal rule governing withdrawal from the EU — applies to Euratom too.

So it's not a case of do I think we should leave Euratom, as I think it likely we have no choice but to.

But why have we got no choice? I thought the Brexit argument is that we simply tell the EU what we are going to do? "

Once again, you can't answer a question.

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By *oi_Lucy OP Couple over a year ago

Barbados

"I found item h to be particularly interesting.

Establish with other countries and international organisations such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy

And yet you imply that because we're no longer a member of euratom, they won't deal with us.

Sorry, the question was obviously too complicated for you, I'll try rewording it. Why do you want to leave Euratom?

Where have I said i do?

Now, are you saying that the EU, in the event that we do leave Euratom, would not seek to "Establish with (the UK) such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy"?

Do you think the UK should leave Euratom?

The Euratom treaty says that Article 50 of the EU Treaty—the legal rule governing withdrawal from the EU — applies to Euratom too.

So it's not a case of do I think we should leave Euratom, as I think it likely we have no choice but to.

The EU might. The EU might not. Who knows.

But there is an organisation which we are a member of that has this as one of it's stated goals and we have voted to leave it. Will that impact those relationships... maybe, maybe not.

Back to the divorce analogy. You are asking your partner 'Will we still be friends?' after the divorce. Maybe, maybe not. Getting a divorce doesn't necessarily prevent being friends after. But you have walked away from a commitment to do so.

-Matt

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

"I found item h to be particularly interesting.

Establish with other countries and international organisations such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy

And yet you imply that because we're no longer a member of euratom, they won't deal with us.

Sorry, the question was obviously too complicated for you, I'll try rewording it. Why do you want to leave Euratom?

Where have I said i do?

Now, are you saying that the EU, in the event that we do leave Euratom, would not seek to "Establish with (the UK) such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy"?

Do you think the UK should leave Euratom?

The Euratom treaty says that Article 50 of the EU Treaty—the legal rule governing withdrawal from the EU — applies to Euratom too.

So it's not a case of do I think we should leave Euratom, as I think it likely we have no choice but to.

The EU might. The EU might not. Who knows.

But there is an organisation which we are a member of that has this as one of it's stated goals and we have voted to leave it. Will that impact those relationships... maybe, maybe not.

-Matt"

Apart from my ex wasn't an EU organization and didn't have the stated clause of establishing relations to foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy. So your analogy of a divorce in this instance is, to be quite honest, total bollocks.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"I found item h to be particularly interesting.

Establish with other countries and international organisations such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy

And yet you imply that because we're no longer a member of euratom, they won't deal with us.

Sorry, the question was obviously too complicated for you, I'll try rewording it. Why do you want to leave Euratom?

Where have I said i do?

Now, are you saying that the EU, in the event that we do leave Euratom, would not seek to "Establish with (the UK) such relations as will foster progress in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy"?

Do you think the UK should leave Euratom?

The Euratom treaty says that Article 50 of the EU Treaty—the legal rule governing withdrawal from the EU — applies to Euratom too.

So it's not a case of do I think we should leave Euratom, as I think it likely we have no choice but to.

But why have we got no choice? I thought the Brexit argument is that we simply tell the EU what we are going to do?

Once again, you can't answer a question."

If you want to be in, surely it makes more sense to stay in, rather than leave, then reapply. This is especially true when we have so many jobs in so many industries (power, waste, building, scientific research etc.) as well as cancer treatments dependent on the funding, safety procedures, availability of nuclear materials, specialist equipment and peesonnel etc.

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