FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Indy 2 still on for Scotland. part 2

Indy 2 still on for Scotland. part 2

By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

If people living in England want to see how much shit the British media and their shite newspapers really are up here in Scotland then this should clear it up how shit and how they will lie to people very easy.

So today we have one newspaper print in a bold headline saying ...

Experts warns the NHS at risk from independence focus

Now they would have you believe from that headline that because all this talk of Scottish independence it is harming the Scottish NHS

So strange as it refers to a new report from the Nuffield Trust called “Learning From NHS Scotland”.

Now what they say in that report is that its a largely hostile press looking to attack the Scottish government's record on the NHS

In other words the NHS in Scotland is being harmed because the Scottish press is so desperate to do it down that it’s become politically difficult to address its challenges for fear of the storm of media criticism that will result, regardless of the merits of the actual measures.

Go figure eh British newspaper prints a story admitting it is the British media (itself included) which is damaging the NHS in Scotland lmao

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

P.S looking forward to the British media tell people that Scottish economy grew by 0.8% in first quarter of 2017, as recession warnings prove to be wrong

So... Scotland now officially has the highest growth, the lowest unemployment and the best NHS in the UK and dont forget 95% record on the Scottish rails

This is stuff the British media will not tell you i do wonder why

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Not really a great day to sell the UK union to people

So in all what we have learned Scottish GDP has grew yes grew by 0.8% when people said Scotland is going to be in recession like they were gladly waiting for it to go into SNP bad mode lol

Also learned the UK could learn lessons for the Scottish NHS. Remember this is the same Scottish NHS unionists would have you believe is in chaos but the Nuffield Trust saying the UK could learn alot of lessons from the Scottish NHS on how to do things better.

All this with Scotland's government being set a budget that keeps on getting cut to the bone when Scotland's voters rejected the Tories but strange that Scotland has cuts forced onto it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No matter how much you post on these forums or how many referrenda there are. Scotland will never vote for independence.

Accept this and get on with your life. If you put as much energy into your swinging you would be the happiest and most Fucked person on Fab instead of this huge chip on your shoulders with the perception that all Scots are being Fucked by the English!

Be proud of being British as well as Scottish.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"No matter how much you post on these forums or how many referrenda there are. Scotland will never vote for independence.

Be proud of being British as well as Scottish."

Ah right so i have to shut up and eat my cereal and stop believing in independence because you said i should i love debating with people on here its their choice if they want to or not

Erm i have a wife and a great sex life swinging is a bonus thank you very much.

Here we go with the anti English agenda again. Sorry not interested in playing those games i love my English family to bits

Breaking news if Scotland were to gain independence you would still be British all that changes is the UK would break up fucking hell lol

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

The two main stories of today in Scotland is the UK must learn from the Scottish NHS how to become better and also Scottish GDP grew by 0.8% out performing the rest of the UK

Just think if Scotland had full control what we would be able to do

So much for the Scotland is 24 hour away from recession but the media today spin it to say Scotland avoids recession lol The UK avoids recession by their logic all thanks to the Scottish government lol

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By *rebor601cplCouple over a year ago

edinburgh

"The two main stories of today in Scotland is the UK must learn from the Scottish NHS how to become better and also Scottish GDP grew by 0.8% out performing the rest of the UK

Just think if Scotland had full control what we would be able to do

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Must have been a bad day for the two fat slags (Davidson & Dugdale). Imagine the two press releases blaming a Scottish recession on fear over Indy 2 having to be thrown in the bin when news on the economy came out. Bet they were really pissed

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Am curious to all those that were waiting on the news coming in that Scotland is in recession will say they got it wrong and will admit the Scottish economy/ GDP is out-performing the rest of the UK

The media have put some spin on it by claiming Scotland avoided going into recession by that same logic seen as Scotland is in the UK then the UK avoided going into recession all thanks to the Scottish Government (SNP) not that i expect those that are so anti SNP will thank them for making sure the economy grew by 0.8% and have done Scotland proud by showing the UK there is another way

in 2014 David Cameron asked Scotland to lead the UK fuck aye we are showing the UK government up

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No matter how much you post on these forums or how many referrenda there are. Scotland will never vote for independence.

Be proud of being British as well as Scottish."

Yes it will be independent.

OP never said Scots were being fucked by the English. You did. Westminster fucking Scotland yes, not the English. No beef with them whatsoever. Despite how the press would portray it.

'Put as much energy in to your swinging...' is, to my mind, very much an 'I'm alright jack' approach which is kinda why the UK is in the clusterfuck it is.

Wishing for Independence isn't a chip on a shoulder, is a desire for something better - for all.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No matter how much you post on these forums or how many referrenda there are. Scotland will never vote for independence.

Be proud of being British as well as Scottish."

You forgot you say "In your View" people of Scotland will not vote for Independence

Scots in Kinross have a very different opinion and majority back independence

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Those Scottish Tory MP's sure as hell look like they are standing up for Scotland and those that voted for them eh

latest one is the WASPI issue where one Scottish Tory MP before the election pledged to support WASPI would it shock you to learn he did not support it.

Its party before country and people remember a job of an MP is to represent the people

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No matter how much you post on these forums or how many referrenda there are. Scotland will never vote for independence.

Be proud of being British as well as Scottish."

Firstly everyone knows its only a matter of time before scotland becomes independent ,and secondly id be discusted if someone called me british im scottish and proud of that

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

[Removed by poster at 07/07/17 11:58:23]

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By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

"No matter how much you post on these forums or how many referrenda there are. Scotland will never vote for independence.

Be proud of being British as well as Scottish.

Firstly everyone knows its only a matter of time before scotland becomes independent ,and secondly id be discusted if someone called me british im scottish and proud of that

I,m English and proud of that too but if you were born in the British Isles you are British as well as being Scottish.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No matter how much you post on these forums or how many referrenda there are. Scotland will never vote for independence.

Be proud of being British as well as Scottish.

Firstly everyone knows its only a matter of time before scotland becomes independent ,and secondly id be discusted if someone called me british im scottish and proud of that

I,m English and proud of that too but if you were born in the British Isles you are British as well as being Scottish. "

Have never considered myself british and never will

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Never considered my self British ?... Well you will need to holiday at home after we leave the EU lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Never considered my self British ?... Well you will need to holiday at home after we leave the EU lol

And why would that be ?

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By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

"No matter how much you post on these forums or how many referrenda there are. Scotland will never vote for independence.

Be proud of being British as well as Scottish.

Firstly everyone knows its only a matter of time before scotland becomes independent ,and secondly id be discusted if someone called me british im scottish and proud of that

I,m English and proud of that too but if you were born in the British Isles you are British as well as being Scottish.

Have never considered myself british and never will "

You wont be wanting a British passport then when we are no longer in the EU so you will have to holiday in Britain.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ahhh The irony...........your a nationalist !!

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

i haven't entered this thread beofre so forgive me if i didn't see the answer...

a lot of people deride brexiteers for having they "we want everything and give up nothing" attitude"....

but in relation to the scotland not wanting to raise tax because it might encourage business to move south.... well isn't that just one of the decisions you wanted in the first place...

I mean scotland made the decision to keep prescription charges free, and not take up tuition fees.... and i applaude you for that....

but somewhere down the line you have to make the figures add up.... and your solution to that is to make the whole UK pay, so you can afford it in scotland, rather than scotland doing it out of it's own budget....

isn't that a bit like having your cake and eating it as well?

wasn't the whole point of develution that you make your own decisions rather than pointing to westminster? this IS a decision you can make, but you are hiding behind those down south....

if scotland was independent... and the london government decided to change their tax rates... what would stop people from moving money and/or business anyway?

for the record i would like the public sector pay cap to be removed.... scotland had the change to do and lead... they kicked the can somewhere else....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

To make tax raising worthwhile for the Scot Gov it needs to be all tax. Across the board. Give them that and I'm sure they'll use it. Giving the small room they have now is good for the 'they won't raise taxes to pay for stuff' headlines but not the actual wiggle room to do anything of any real use.

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

Avoiding the point and making up a faux grievance concerning other taxes which is irrelevant to the matter at hand. The issue is the highest rate of income tax, not any other tax.

Typical natcase obfuscation, it's always someone or something else's fault. They never have "enough" power, but here's an example when they do have the powers but cowardly choose not to exercise that power.

The Scottish government decided not to raise the higher rate of tax, but it wants the rest of the UK to raise its tax.

Scotland would then have a lower top rate of income tax than the rest of the UK.

Any extra revenue raised in England and Wales, and then spent there from this increase, would find its way to the Scottish government via the Barnett formula. Even though it rejected the policy that raised it.

This is not the way to do things, I want more for public spending for the services that we need, but I don't think people from other parts of the UK should be paying for our services at the detriment of their own.

It would then benefit indirectly from the extra revenue raised elsewhere in the UK. Enjoying the union dividend but not contributing to it.

The way Barnett woks is that for every 97p of public spending in England, Scotland gets £1.17.

They are doing the same with the public sector pay cap, it's been in force in Scotland for seven years but they want the rest of the UK to raise it while maintaining it in Scotland.

Again, any extra money spent in England would then be replicated to the Scottish government via Barnett!

It will still not be enough for the oppressed separatists. ??

They will still moan.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No matter how much you post on these forums or how many referrenda there are. Scotland will never vote for independence.

Be proud of being British as well as Scottish.

Firstly everyone knows its only a matter of time before scotland becomes independent ,and secondly id be discusted if someone called me british im scottish and proud of that

I,m English and proud of that too but if you were born in the British Isles you are British as well as being Scottish.

Have never considered myself british and never will

You wont be wanting a British passport then when we are no longer in the EU so you will have to holiday in Britain.

I have british passport which i use quite alot still dont and never will consider myself british

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

I assume that those Scottish people, who don't consider themselves British, have made representations to MPs, MSPs and the press, that they wish to get rid of the Barnett formula?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No matter how much you post on these forums or how many referrenda there are. Scotland will never vote for independence.

Be proud of being British as well as Scottish.

Firstly everyone knows its only a matter of time before scotland becomes independent ,and secondly id be discusted if someone called me british im scottish and proud of that

I,m English and proud of that too but if you were born in the British Isles you are British as well as being Scottish.

Have never considered myself british and never will

You wont be wanting a British passport then when we are no longer in the EU so you will have to holiday in Britain.

I have british passport which i use quite alot still dont and never will consider myself british

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To make tax raising worthwhile for the Scot Gov it needs to be all tax. Across the board. Give them that and I'm sure they'll use it. Giving the small room they have now is good for the 'they won't raise taxes to pay for stuff' headlines but not the actual wiggle room to do anything of any real use.

The middle income earners are already paying more !!!

Due to fiscal drag more people are becoming middle income earners.

Fiscal drag was recognised by the chancellor but the greens / snp coillition decided you are rich at £ 43000 but in RUK the tax allowance has been raised to £ 45000 heading to 50000.

What ambition do Scottish workers have to earn this some knowing their collegues earn more just by living south of Haidrian's wall.

These extra rates catch ordinary workers... cops...teachers ... nurses etc

but snp/ green think they are rich

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The middle income earners are already paying more !!!

Due to fiscal drag more people are becoming middle income earners.

Fiscal drag was recognised by the chancellor but the greens / snp coillition decided you are rich at £ 43000 but in RUK the tax allowance has been raised to £ 45000 heading to 50000.

What ambition do Scottish workers have to earn this some knowing their collegues earn more just by living south of Haidrian's wall.

These extra rates catch ordinary workers... cops...teachers ... nurses etc

but snp/ green think they are rich

stamp duty is much higher too for middle income earners with property

325,000 - 750,000 = 10% stamp duty

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The middle income earners are already paying more !!!

Due to fiscal drag more people are becoming middle income earners.

Fiscal drag was recognised by the chancellor but the greens / snp coillition decided you are rich at £ 43000 but in RUK the tax allowance has been raised to £ 45000 heading to 50000.

What ambition do Scottish workers have to earn this some knowing their collegues earn more just by living south of Haidrian's wall.

These extra rates catch ordinary workers... cops...teachers ... nurses etc

but snp/ green think they are rich

Given that the average UK salary is £27k I don't think it's unreasonable to consider anyone earning in excess of £40k well off at the very least and rich if you're earning under £20k. It's all relative.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No matter how much you post on these forums or how many referrenda there are. Scotland will never vote for independence.

Be proud of being British as well as Scottish."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No matter how much you post on these forums or how many referrenda there are. Scotland will never vote for independence.

Be proud of being British as well as Scottish.

Firstly everyone knows its only a matter of time before scotland becomes independent ,and secondly id be discusted if someone called me british im scottish and proud of that

I,m English and proud of that too but if you were born in the British Isles you are British as well as being Scottish. "

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By *atassaTV/TS over a year ago

Glasgow

I notice a lot of emphasis on identity here.

What we are talking about is a political union,a political union that works to the detriment in Scotland, actually it works to detriment of all but the city of London atm.

We have shared culture with those across the isles, that would not change due to self governance.

It's a simple matter of democracy (or lack thereof as case may be, and is) 650 seats in UK system in which Scotland has 59, let that sink in for a moment. That is democratically unacceptable.

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

"I notice a lot of emphasis on identity here.

What we are talking about is a political union,a political union that works to the detriment in Scotland, actually it works to detriment of all but the city of London atm.

We have shared culture with those across the isles, that would not change due to self governance.

It's a simple matter of democracy (or lack thereof as case may be, and is) 650 seats in UK system in which Scotland has 59, let that sink in for a moment. That is democratically unacceptable."

And what is your reasoning for "only 59" MPs?

Population of UK, roughly 55million. Population of Scotland, roughly 5 million.

Care to do the maths?

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By *atassaTV/TS over a year ago

Glasgow

I'm quite aware of how the system works, It is however broken and not fit for purpose.

Why Scotland is apportioned 59 seats matters very little to me, what does matter is that Scotland has in practical terms no democratic voice. We've had the circumstances for the past two years where almost every MP in Scotland has voted against govt policy, but of course to no avail being, as they are, somewhat outnumbered.

Granted it also hasn't helped matters that we've had a labour party that seem stuck on auto abstain.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

Seats in Westminster, the East Lothian question, tax raising powers are all window dressing and nothing more when it comes to Scottish independance. There is only one real issue, brexit. If as the experts predict (and it is looking very likely that they will be right across the board) then Scotland will leave the Union without a doubt.

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By *andACouple over a year ago

glasgow

"Seats in Westminster, the East Lothian question, tax raising powers are all window dressing and nothing more when it comes to Scottish independance. There is only one real issue, brexit. If as the experts predict (and it is looking very likely that they will be right across the board) then Scotland will leave the Union without a doubt. "

No it won't. Independence would be Brexit X 10

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

It's a simple matter of democracy (or lack thereof as case may be, and is) 650 seats in UK system in which Scotland has 59, let that sink in for a moment. That is democratically unacceptable."

but that again is blaming westminster for scottish problems when all of the decisions about what and how money is spent in scotland is done at holyrood and not the commons.....

you are essentially letting holyrood off the hook.....

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

Are you aware?

Scotland is not a big homogeneous lump, it is made up if individuals. These individuals vote for a variety of reasons. This imaginary concept that democracy here is broken is a complete fallacy. An individuals vote in Glasgow is worth as much as an individual in Gloucester, they all count exactly the same way.

But then, thats nationalism for you, the individual comes secondary to the state. This is identity politics of the worst kind. Their morals and principles begin and end where a line is drawn on a bloody map.

If you do have a problem, then it is with the first past the post system, as we seen after the previous General Election when the vast majority of MP,s belonged to a party that had not secured the majority of votes. Of course you were not caring about the votes that were cast then and resulted in no representation. You delighted in the fact that hundreds of thousands of people in Scotland voted for Labour, Libdems and the Conservatives and did not see any return for their votes. You didnt give a flying fuck then, did you? Or were they the wrong kind of Scots?

Your whole faux grievance (its a UK election after all) is that other peoples votes from other parts of the UK in an election should be worth less than Scottish ones rather than to considered as equally as individuals. The 4 million Scots vote out weigh the 40+million of the rest of the UK. No wonder Scotland is beginning to wake up to the snp, they now see that it achieves very little in the grand scheme of things, and is now seeing them for the opportunists they really are.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"I'm quite aware of how the system works, It is however broken and not fit for purpose.

Granted it also hasn't helped matters that we've had a labour party that seem stuck on auto abstain."

100% agree you only have to look at the Scotland Bill to see every amendment was voted down by the English mp's on what powers Scotland can have

Then take brexit again all admendments from the Scottish government were voted down.

Then these new Scottish Tory branch MP's show you they will never stand up for Scotland piss poor dickheads that put party before the country

One Scottish Tory branch MP caught out lying telling people he will support WASPI before the UK election and did he ? Of course you know the answer he didnt support it also the 13 Scottish Tory branch mp's voted against the single market remember Ruth Davidson asking what the Scottish government would do to protect the single market ? So if she cared that much about the single market and Ruth thinks she is some sort of hero and will take on her own party if she doesnt agree then why didnt she tell her Scottish mp's to vote for the single market also Ruth is gay yet seems ok for her party to do a dirty deal with the DUP bribing them with 1 billion to keep the Tories in powers

Yeah some fucking union the UK is eh corrupt as fuck there is no family of nations or equal partnership all the UK is a dictatorship trying to cling onto the British empire which btw is nothing to be fucking proud of

Last thing Ruth Davidson actually wished the USA a happy independence day on the 4th July she cant see the USA gained independence from the UK lmao

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

It's a simple matter of democracy (or lack thereof as case may be, and is) 650 seats in UK system in which Scotland has 59, let that sink in for a moment. That is democratically unacceptable.

but that again is blaming westminster for scottish problems when all of the decisions about what and how money is spent in scotland is done at holyrood and not the commons.....

you are essentially letting holyrood off the hook.....

Did you happen to see the news this week ? The Scottish economy is by miles out performing the rest of the UK strange its as though the unionists wanted a recession in Scotland

Thank fuck things like the NHS etc is devolved in Scotland just a fucking pity money is not devolved that is reversed to Westminster who need i remind people are adding the the national debt in the Trillions and the UK government ie the Tories been in power for 7 years and not met a target.

Time to give Scotland real powers where full control over welfare and of course money is given to Scotland

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By *atassaTV/TS over a year ago

Glasgow

I agree, brexit will quite possibly be the last straw to break the back of the WM political union.

I think brexit has underlined something that has been apparent (to some) for a very long time, Scotland largely wants to travel a very different societal route from rUK, but due to weight in numbers within the UK system we are obliged to travel in whichever direction we're dragged.

Despite media nonsense to the contrary, there will be a referendum on Scottish independence once terms of brexit become clear, and if Scotland has any sense at all it will make quick it's escape from the isolationist UK and take it's place upon the world stage as the internationalist, forward looking country we could be and build the society Scotland has been longing for.

I would wish that any divorce be amicable and would personally wish the good folk of rUK well, I'd also hope that our rejection of the corrupt WM system would encourage rUK to demand better. We all deserve better.

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

"100% agree you only have to look at the Scotland Bill to see every amendment was voted down by the English mp's on what powers Scotland can have"

Not true 80 amendments were accepted and 120 voted out, I note that the snp voted down Labour amendments introduced by Ian Murray in the passage of the bill.

Once again you are a liar.

"Then take brexit again all admendments from the Scottish government were voted down."

Tell me which amendments did the Scottish Government introduce to Brexit. And more importantly, how can the Scottish Government table amendments in the House of Commons to be voted down? You havent a bloody clue.

"Then these new Scottish Tory branch MP's show you they will never stand up for Scotland piss poor dickheads that put party before the country"

Its hardly surprising that a nationalist cant see the irony in that last sentence, truly detached from reality.

The rest is just the usual gibberish, but I will say that under the Scotland act 2016, the Scottish parliament could introduce legislation to help the plight of the WASPI women but it chooses not to. But then it rarely introduces any, the last was in March 2016.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

""100% agree you only have to look at the Scotland Bill to see every amendment was voted down by the English mp's on what powers Scotland can have"

Not true 80 amendments were accepted and 120 voted out, I note that the snp voted down Labour amendments introduced by Ian Murray in the passage of the bill.

Once again you are a liar.

"Then take brexit again all admendments from the Scottish government were voted down."

"Then these new Scottish Tory branch MP's show you they will never stand up for Scotland piss poor dickheads that put party before the country"

Its hardly surprising that a nationalist cant see the irony in that last sentence, truly detached from reality.

Ok on the Scotland Bill are you claiming Scotland has Home Rule ? That was a Labour promise in the Better Together camp correct ?

Ok i see you need it spelled out the SNP are the Scottish government and the Scottish government are the SNP lol

One amendment from the SNP / Scottish government was to keep full membership of the single market

Lmao ah right are you claiming the SNP put party before country ? If that were true then where is the legislation for the section 30 order ?

I cant believe i see you put that so what not even give a fuck that Douglas Ross Scottish Tory branch Mp said before the election he would support WASPI women then we find out no he didnt support them are you actually defending him just curious ?

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

"Ok on the Scotland Bill are you claiming Scotland has Home Rule ? That was a Labour promise in the Better Together camp correct ?"

No I,m not. Neither Laboi or Better Together are in government, so I do not understand your logic of blaming these two groups when they are not in power.

I am claiming that you are a liar though, and I showed an example of why you are.

"Ok i see you need it spelled out the SNP are the Scottish government and the Scottish government are the SNP lol"

In future you should be more careful what you post. You did say the Scottish government, if you are lolling, you should be lolling at your own stupidity. I know I am.

"One amendment from the SNP / Scottish government was to keep full membership of the single market"

Even though the UK people expressed in the EU referendum to leave the EU, do you honestly think that the snp / Scottish government can over rule the will of the people in a democratic referendum? Your further down the rabbit hole than I thought if you do.

"Lmao ah right are you claiming the SNP put party before country ? If that were true then where is the legislation for the section 30 order ?"

Exactly, they have went against the will of the Scottish parliament when it suited them in the past, it surprises me that you dont remember. I,m sure I,ve mentioned it to you before. Maybe you conveniently forgot.

Now is not the time she said, and strangely enough the First Minister agrees with her.

"I cant believe i see you put that so what not even give a fuck that Douglas Ross Scottish Tory branch Mp said before the election he would support WASPI women then we find out no he didnt support them are you actually defending him just curious ?"

Ive told ypu before, I,m not here to defend tories. What I have highlighted is the fact that the Scottish government could introduce a benefit to restore these pensions but it chooses not to. Rather that criticise the Scottish government you attack one man thats been in the job for a few weeks. Its clear that the current Scottish government cares for the plight of the WASPI women as much as the tory party do. Tories are tories, as you say, you cant trust them. It looks like the current Scottish government is equally reprehensible. Your are too far gone to see it, but then thats the way of cults.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

""Ok on the Scotland Bill are you claiming Scotland has Home Rule ? That was a Labour promise in the Better Together camp correct ?"

No I,m not. Neither Laboi or Better Together are in government, so I do not understand your logic of blaming these two groups when they are not in power.

I am claiming that you are a liar though, and I showed an example of why you are.

"Ok i see you need it spelled out the SNP are the Scottish government and the Scottish government are the SNP lol"

In future you should be more careful what you post. You did say the Scottish government, if you are lolling, you should be lolling at your own stupidity. I know I am.

"One amendment from the SNP / Scottish government was to keep full membership of the single market"

"Lmao ah right are you claiming the SNP put party before country ? If that were true then where is the legislation for the section 30 order ?"

Now is not the time she said, and strangely enough the First Minister agrees with her.

Jesus christ so thats the excuse your using now ? So to hell with the extra powers i.e Home Rule yeah thats about right as pro hardcore unionists dont seem to care about the promises that the EU, NHS Steel works , Ship Yards, HMRC were all suppose to be safe in the UK but to hell with that eh union at any cost even if it means not caring that promises were broke by the NO camp

Again Scotland rejected brexit the Scottish government are giving the Scottish people a chance to decide our future. You might not care about full membership of the single market but i do

You having a fucking laugh the Scottish parliament had a vote on the section 30 order it passed you may not like it but it passed democratically even if the Greens abstained it still would have passed lol

Yeah that would be right so in all you dont seem to care that a Scottish Tory mp said he would support WASPI and he didnt so that gets by passed to think the Scottish government should just mitigate everything the Tories do to hurt people then pro unionists moan about the SNP not spending enough but your have to see money go to mitigate what the Tories do

Cults take a long hard look at the pro hardcore unionists BritNats if you will defend their corrupt UK union for them its the union at any cost

This is how fucked up it gets with BritNats they want the SNP to take independence off the table but the SNP were elected by the Scottish people and the Scottish people gave them a mandate to seek a independence referendum if Scotland did reject brexit what they dont get they will still get to vote no in an independence referendum but you can not deny people the right to vote that have changed their minds on independence and those are willing to if the brexit deal is good or not if not then again you should not deny those that dont agree with it and prefer independence

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You having a fucking laugh the Scottish parliament had a vote on the section 30 order it passed you may not like it but it passed democratically"

In 2014 the Scottish people had a referendum on independence. The majority voted to reject independence. You may not like it but it passed democratically.

In 2016 the British people had a referendum to stay in or leave the EU. The majority voted to leave. You may not like it but it passed democratically.

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

"Jesus christ so thats the excuse your using now ? So to hell with the extra powers i.e Home Rule yeah thats about right as pro hardcore unionists dont seem to care about the promises that the EU, NHS Steel works , Ship Yards, HMRC were all suppose to be safe in the UK but to hell with that eh union at any cost even if it means not caring that promises were broke by the NO camp"

Excuse, what the hell you on about? Its you thats making excuses for the snp government sitting on their hands and doing nothing to help. For god sake, the Scottish government have the powers from the Scotland act 2016 to introduce new benefits and top up reserved benefits without detriment to the claimant. They choose not to! Have a look at your own government in Holyrood, they can help the WASPI women but choose not to. Just like you, you choose not to criticise your own party, this makes me think that you dont really care about the WASPI women but only see them as a useful tool to attack the tories. But your not allowed to are you? After all you do have a rule that in the party that says you cant “publicly criticise a group decision, policy or another member of the group”. Christ this sounds like something the politburo of Stalin would introduce.

"Again Scotland rejected brexit the Scottish government are giving the Scottish people a chance to decide our future. You might not care about full membership of the single market but i do"

Scotland did not reject Brexit at all, Brexit wasnt on the ballot paper. What was on the ballot paper was this question, Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union? Read that question again and can you see Scotland in it? No you cant. It was a question on a UK issue and it was a UK decision. A great many remain voters that I have spoken to are absolutely livid that snp should hijack their remain vote as some kind of endorsement for independence.

The last sentence you wrote is hilarious, in the 2014 referendum by voting yes you were voting to leave a member state and by definition that means that the new independent state would NOT be a member of the EU , youve seen the letter (Ive posted a link to it many times) from V Redding that told the Scottish government confirming that. It didnt bother you then but you care now? I suspect you are full of shit and lying through your teeth.

Here: https://www.parliament.scot/S4_EuropeanandExternalRelationsCommittee/Inquiries/Letter_from_Viviane_Reding_Vice_President_of_the_European_Commission_dated_20_March_2014__pdf.pdf

"You having a fucking laugh the Scottish parliament had a vote on the section 30 order it passed you may not like it but it passed democratically even if the Greens abstained it still would have passed lol"

And your point is?

"This is how fucked up it gets with BritNats they want the SNP to take independence off the table but the SNP were elected by the Scottish people and the Scottish people gave them a mandate to seek a independence referendum if Scotland did reject brexit what they dont get they will still get to vote no in an independence referendum but you can not deny people the right to vote that have changed their minds on independence and those are willing to if the brexit deal is good or not if not then again you should not deny those that dont agree with it and prefer independence"

The sno are a minority government, not a majority one. not a mandate at all. In the same way as the Conservatives are the government, but not having a majority. Tbey were voted in as a unionist party so they have a mandate not to break up the union, would that be right? In a way, the tories and the snp are just two cheeks of the same arse when it come to mandates.

You say people have changed their minds, wheres your evidence for that? The vast majority of polls has seen support for independence dwindling, the recent General election saw support for unionist parties at 62.9% in Scotland, whilst independence parties could only muster 37.1%. The snp lost a staggering half a million votes! A third of their support has deserted them in less than two years. I know you dont want to listen to what I say, but can you at least listen to what the people said in the election last month? They rejected independence parties by almost two to one. You whine about getting another chance to vote in referendums, instead of ignoring the votes cast in the two referendums, accept that you lost and show a bit of humility. The only ones to blame are the losing campaigns and rerunning them is an affront to the millions of people that voted in them. One was a once in a generation the other was a once in forty year event. Take note, give it forty years and you might win the next one. But I doubt it!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In 2016 the British people had a referendum to stay in or leave the EU. The majority voted to leave. "

Not in Scotland. Hence the drive for the new ref. Do we want to be part of the shitstorm that May/ Cameron have created or take our chances and go it alone.

Pretty sure, given the way things have gone thus far with May's 'negotiations', that if the question to the UK was asked again it would be a resounding stay.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In 2016 the British people had a referendum to stay in or leave the EU. The majority voted to leave.

Not in Scotland. Hence the drive for the new ref. Do we want to be part of the shitstorm that May/ Cameron have created or take our chances and go it alone.

Pretty sure, given the way things have gone thus far with May's 'negotiations', that if the question to the UK was asked again it would be a resounding stay. "

If there was another independence referendum and the majority of Scots voted to reject it would you accept the result?

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

Here's another fraudulently claiming that somehow Scotland voted as a separate entity, it was a UK vote on the UK,s membership of the EU, not Scotlands, Englands, Wales or Northern Irelands, but the whole of the UK.

Can you remember the question that was asked on the ballot paper for the EU referendum?

I can't recall Scotland being on it, can you?

And what's your alternative, going it alone?

Out the EU and out the UK?

If you seriously think that's a vote winner then you really should think again. ??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In 2016 the British people had a referendum to stay in or leave the EU. The majority voted to leave.

Not in Scotland. Hence the drive for the new ref. Do we want to be part of the shitstorm that May/ Cameron have created or take our chances and go it alone.

Pretty sure, given the way things have gone thus far with May's 'negotiations', that if the question to the UK was asked again it would be a resounding stay.

If there was another independence referendum and the majority of Scots voted to reject it would you accept the result?"

Yes, so long as any 'carrots' used by the UK Gov, like last time, are adhered to. For what it's worth I don't think it would be a positive result regardless. So in that, I'm already resigned to accepting a no. Doesn't mean I have to like it or stop pushing for a better outcome.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Here's another fraudulently claiming that somehow Scotland voted as a separate entity, it was a UK vote on the UK,s membership of the EU, not Scotlands, Englands, Wales or Northern Irelands, but the whole of the UK.

Can you remember the question that was asked on the ballot paper for the EU referendum?

I can't recall Scotland being on it, can you?

And what's your alternative, going it alone?

Out the EU and out the UK?

If you seriously think that's a vote winner then you really should think again. ?? "

60% of Scots voted to stay in the EU, nothing 'fraudulent' about that. It's a fact. I never said they voted separately, you did, that's fraudulent my friend. I merely pointed out the fact that Scots did vote differently to most of the rest of the UK. That's undeniable.

Going it alone within EU is my favoured option (que 'you can't go it alone and be in the EU' schpeil). No amount of shouty, angry, smashing up their computer rants from keyboard warriors will change my mind on that wish.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes

Do you accept the result of the 2014 independence referendum?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes

Do you accept the result of the 2014 independence referendum?"

As it stood then yes, I did, didn't like it but accepted it. A week is indeed a long time in politics however and a lot has changed in the time since then. Surely you have to acknowledge that?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes

Do you accept the result of the 2014 independence referendum?"

Out of curiosity, are you Scottish/ lived here/ family etc that you feel so strongly about it?

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS over a year ago

Glasgow

"The two main stories of today in Scotland is the UK must learn from the Scottish NHS how to become better and also Scottish GDP grew by 0.8% out performing the rest of the UK

Just think if Scotland had full control what we would be able to do

Do you know what the word recession actually means? It doesn't look like you understand the definition from this post. The UK as a whole could've dropped this quarter (but it didn't) and it still wouldn't be in recession.

Also, with regards to the GDP outperforming the UK, it's only been one quarter and we're still lagging far behind. To use a very simple analogy, it's a like a team scoring a goal in the 70th minute when they're 6 nil down. We wouldn't say they're outperforming the other team.

The Scottish government website gives all the info we need on this. Since 2007 the UK economy has grown by over 11%, Scotland's by just over 6%. That's really poor. I also see that the increase in GDP growth this quarter was mainly driven by an increase in production (which is welcome) but production had fallen the previous 7 quarters and is still below where it was a couple of years ago.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

You having a fucking laugh the Scottish parliament had a vote on the section 30 order it passed you may not like it but it passed democratically

In 2014 the Scottish people had a referendum on independence. The majority voted to reject independence. You may not like it but it passed democratically.

In 2016 the British people had a referendum to stay in or leave the EU. The majority voted to leave. You may not like it but it passed democratically."

Ah right so that means no more referendums then ? Funny you wont find Agreement. Now the 2014 referendum on independence has been respected as you dont see Scotland independent do you ?

Now people have moved on and the Scottish people democratically elected the SNP that did have in their manifesto if Scotland did reject brexit then Scotland should have the right to have a new independence referendum and in Holyrood a vote was took and it passed for the Scottish people to have a an new independence referendum when the brexit deal is known nothing has changed its as you were for the independence referendum to be took of the table then the UK government are going to have to start listening and respecting Scotland now. Do it not yes 100% there will be on.

Scotland's majority did not vote to leave the EU do people not care about that ? Some equal UK union this is where Scotland has to shut the fuck up and eat our cereal lol

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Can you remember the question that was asked on the ballot paper for the EU referendum?

I can't recall Scotland being on it, can you?

And what's your alternative, going it alone?

Out the EU and out the UK?

If you seriously think that's a vote winner then you really should think again. ?? "

Talk about fraud strange you bring up ballot papers can you tell me where on the 2014 Scottish referendum did it say YES, NO or Extra powers ? Mine had only YES and NO to independence so why is that acceptable ? the NO camp shat a brick. The promise from the NO camp where they all signed agreement to give Scotland those extra powers Home Rule was promise near federal state as can be was quoted now anyone think Scotland has Home Rule ?

Fact does remain Scotland did not vote to leave the EU you cant hide that fact and the Scottish people should be allowed to decide our future by hearing the final brexit deal and deciding if we agree to a UK brexit or have Scottish independence.

Now am all for an independent Scotland being in the EU and single market.

You ask about being being out of the EU and the UK Norway seem to be enjoying it and Norway is only a country of 4 million and as much oil as we do yet Scotland has 5 million and people think Scotland cant go it on our own shame on you talking our country down like that.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Can you remember the question that was asked on the ballot paper for the EU referendum?

I can't recall Scotland being on it, can you?

And what's your alternative, going it alone?

Out the EU and out the UK?

If you seriously think that's a vote winner then you really should think again. ?? "

you have no shame

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Scotland's majority did not vote to leave the EU do people not care about that ? Some equal UK union this is where Scotland has to shut the fuck up and eat our cereal lol "

You're back...

If there was another independence referendum and the majority of Scots voted to reject it would you accept the result?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Scotland's majority did not vote to leave the EU do people not care about that ? Some equal UK union this is where Scotland has to shut the fuck up and eat our cereal lol

You're back...

If there was another independence referendum and the majority of Scots voted to reject it would you accept the result?"

What's your interest? (As question above you've not answered yet)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes

Do you accept the result of the 2014 independence referendum?

Out of curiosity, are you Scottish/ lived here/ family etc that you feel so strongly about it? "

I am not Scottish

I haven't lived here

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Scotland's majority did not vote to leave the EU do people not care about that ? Some equal UK union this is where Scotland has to shut the fuck up and eat our cereal lol

You're back...

If there was another independence referendum and the majority of Scots voted to reject it would you accept the result?"

I will answer by saying yes i would accept the result but in no way will anyone stop me believing independence.

But it says alot about the unionist dide that are trying everything they can to stop indyref2 when it would was democratically voted for and the Scottish government do have a mandate that unionist branch offices do not.

It would appear the pro union side are shite feart to allow the Scottish people a right to change their minds imagine trying to deny people a right to change their minds lol

Is it unionist policy now to deny people their democratic right to think now they would choose independence that my friend is called a dictatorship what is so wrong about giving a country that voted to remain in the EU i choice ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Scotland's majority did not vote to leave the EU do people not care about that ? Some equal UK union this is where Scotland has to shut the fuck up and eat our cereal lol

You're back...

If there was another independence referendum and the majority of Scots voted to reject it would you accept the result?

I will answer by saying yes i would accept the result but in no way will anyone stop me believing independence.

It would appear the pro union side are shite feart to allow the Scottish people a right to change their minds imagine trying to deny people a right to change their minds lol

You had an opportunity to exercise your democratic right in 2014 and another in 2016.

Ironically it was 'unionists' who gave you that opportunity on both occasions!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Scotland's majority did not vote to leave the EU do people not care about that ? Some equal UK union this is where Scotland has to shut the fuck up and eat our cereal lol

You're back...

If there was another independence referendum and the majority of Scots voted to reject it would you accept the result?

I will answer by saying yes i would accept the result but in no way will anyone stop me believing independence.

It would appear the pro union side are shite feart to allow the Scottish people a right to change their minds imagine trying to deny people a right to change their minds lol

You had an opportunity to exercise your democratic right in 2014 and another in 2016.

Ironically it was 'unionists' who gave you that opportunity on both occasions!"

So what's your drive to keep bringing this up? You're not Scottish, haven't lived here yet you appear to either have a vested interest in it remaining part of the UK or you're just being a bit 'mischievous' on the forum.

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By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

Scotland's majority did not vote to leave the EU do people not care about that ? Some equal UK union this is where Scotland has to shut the fuck up and eat our cereal lol

You're back...

If there was another independence referendum and the majority of Scots voted to reject it would you accept the result?

I will answer by saying yes i would accept the result but in no way will anyone stop me believing independence.

It would appear the pro union side are shite feart to allow the Scottish people a right to change their minds imagine trying to deny people a right to change their minds lol

You had an opportunity to exercise your democratic right in 2014 and another in 2016.

Ironically it was 'unionists' who gave you that opportunity on both occasions!

I don't think anyone wants to see Scotland leave the UK if they are honest. I think more devolved powers to Scotland would work for everyone.

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

" you have no shame"

Do you have a point?

Personal insults, is that all you've got?

When you resort to that, it shows me that you do not have a single political argument left to make.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" you have no shame

Do you have a point?

Personal insults, is that all you've got?

When you resort to that, it shows me that you do not have a single political argument left to make. "

To be fair you've not been too shy yourself!

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Scotland's majority did not vote to leave the EU do people not care about that ? Some equal UK union this is where Scotland has to shut the fuck up and eat our cereal lol

You're back...

If there was another independence referendum and the majority of Scots voted to reject it would you accept the result?

I will answer by saying yes i would accept the result but in no way will anyone stop me believing independence.

It would appear the pro union side are shite feart to allow the Scottish people a right to change their minds imagine trying to deny people a right to change their minds lol

You had an opportunity to exercise your democratic right in 2014 and another in 2016.

Ironically it was 'unionists' who gave you that opportunity on both occasions!

I don't think anyone wants to see Scotland leave the UK if they are honest. I think more devolved powers to Scotland would work for everyone."

Been there done that. Also not true there is plenty that want Scotland to break away from the UK its not working and as for more devolved powers i seem to remember Home Rule being promised to Scotland yet still have not got anywhere near Home Rule. Take welfare they want to give Scotland powers over welfare but still dont want to give them full control over welfare meaning Westminster will still have a say that does not sound like Home Rule.

All countries should be independent in my opinion

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

Any examples?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Does it matter where I live?

As a UK citizen, albeit English, am I not allowed to have a vested interest in Scotland either leaving or remaining part of the UK?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Any examples?

You've called Kinky a 'liar' on a few occasions for having a different view to yours in these threads, been generally disparaging about pro Indy folks and accused me of lying (fraudulent).

Certainly wouldn't be accepted in the chamber...

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By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

Scotland's majority did not vote to leave the EU do people not care about that ? Some equal UK union this is where Scotland has to shut the fuck up and eat our cereal lol

You're back...

If there was another independence referendum and the majority of Scots voted to reject it would you accept the result?

I will answer by saying yes i would accept the result but in no way will anyone stop me believing independence.

It would appear the pro union side are shite feart to allow the Scottish people a right to change their minds imagine trying to deny people a right to change their minds lol

You had an opportunity to exercise your democratic right in 2014 and another in 2016.

Ironically it was 'unionists' who gave you that opportunity on both occasions!

I don't think anyone wants to see Scotland leave the UK if they are honest. I think more devolved powers to Scotland would work for everyone.

All countries should be independent in my opinion"

Then Scotland would be bankrupt within 2 to 3 years in my opinion Scotland just does,nt have a big enough population to support its self as it is now in my opinion.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Scotland's majority did not vote to leave the EU do people not care about that ? Some equal UK union this is where Scotland has to shut the fuck up and eat our cereal lol

You're back...

If there was another independence referendum and the majority of Scots voted to reject it would you accept the result?

I will answer by saying yes i would accept the result but in no way will anyone stop me believing independence.

It would appear the pro union side are shite feart to allow the Scottish people a right to change their minds imagine trying to deny people a right to change their minds lol

You had an opportunity to exercise your democratic right in 2014 and another in 2016.

Ironically it was 'unionists' who gave you that opportunity on both occasions!

I don't think anyone wants to see Scotland leave the UK if they are honest. I think more devolved powers to Scotland would work for everyone.

All countries should be independent in my opinion

Then Scotland would be bankrupt within 2 to 3 years in my opinion Scotland just does,nt have a big enough population to support its self as it is now in my opinion."

Thats fair enough thats your opinion the problem with what you say is you think Scotland wouldnt be able to support itself if we gained independence just because of population

So question is do you think Norway a country of 4 million are more than capable of being an independent country and they have as much oil as we do ?

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

And I have demonstrated the lie that kinky used. I would not use the term unless I had the ammunition to back it up. It's noted that they did not challenge me on the accusation, Hmm!

By highlighting the fact that a remain vote meant just that, and only that. They wished the UK to remain in the EU, that's all.

To then claim that this remain vote should be hijacked in support of an independence referendum is indeed fraudulent.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Falklands, Isle of Man, Denmark...lots of countries very capable.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"And I have demonstrated the lie that kinky used. I would not use the term unless I had the ammunition to back it up. It's noted that they did not challenge me on the accusation, Hmm!

By highlighting the fact that a remain vote meant just that, and only that. They wished the UK to remain in the EU, that's all.

To then claim that this remain vote should be hijacked in support of an independence referendum is indeed fraudulent.

I'm not hi-jacking anything. Did Scotland vote overwhelmingly to remain, Yes or no?

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

"Falklands, Isle of Man, Denmark...lots of countries very capable. "

The Falkland Islands and the Isle Of Man are not countries.

The Falklands are a British Overseas Territory and The Isle Of Man belongs to the Crown.

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

It did vote to remain in the UK.

If your asking about the EU referendum, I don't know. As we haven't had a vote for Scotland to remain in the EU.

Scotland is not a member state of the EU, so any vote that it should or could is a total nonsense.

I've stated it before, the question was. "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

I can't see Scotland mentioned there, can you?

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"It did vote to remain in the UK.

If your asking about the EU referendum, I don't know. As we haven't had a vote for Scotland to remain in the EU.

Scotland is not a member state of the EU, so any vote that it should or could is a total nonsense.

I've stated it before, the question was. "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

I can't see Scotland mentioned there, can you? "

Am curious to know do you do think its ok to promise Scotland extra powers in the 2014 independence referendum ? That was not on the ballot paper correct ? So question is why is that ok to defend but you having a go at Scotland not being on the ballot paper in the EU referendum abit of double standards there.

Do you think people should be denied a right to change their minds on Scotland being independent Yes or No ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Falklands, Isle of Man, Denmark...lots of countries very capable.

The Falkland Islands and the Isle Of Man are not countries.

The Falklands are a British Overseas Territory and The Isle Of Man belongs to the Crown."

As good as. Independent in pretty much every way.

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

"Am curious to know do you do think its ok to promise Scotland extra powers in the 2014 independence referendum ? "

Whether is ok or not is irrelevant, the fact is both sides made promises that they would need to deliver.

"That was not on the ballot paper correct ?"

The White paper was not on the ballot paper either but that was what we were told that we would be voting for if we were to vote yes. We were also told that it was a "once in a generation/lifetime chance, we were also told of our continuing EU membership,which was an impossibility. We were also told we were going to pay for the new utopia on the back of all the taxation raised on an oil price that would be $110 per barrel, and not only that, Salmond said that it would "remain constant" at that price!!! We have seen the oil price collapse and revenues are now in the negative. His forecast for this year have been out by £8200m.

" So question is why is that ok to defend but you having a go at Scotland not being on the ballot paper in the EU referendum abit of double standards there."

I dont really understand the your question there. What you have to realise is that politicians are always making promises, as an adult, you have to ask yourself the question, are these promises deliverable? In the case of the no camp, the so called vow that was put in the Daily Record has be delivered, as seen in the Scotland act 2016 regarding new powers, the Barnett formula, the Scottish parliaments permanence, and the independent funding of the Scottish NHS.

We have seen all the hopeful wishful thinking based on best case scenarios in the white paper unravel before our eyes, they ignored the risks when pointed out to them as scaremongering. You obviously didnt like the outcome but it has delivered, its equally obvious that the white paper would have been unable to fulfil it promises if a yes vote was returned.

"Do you think people should be denied a right to change their minds on Scotland being independent Yes or No ?"

No I do not think they should be denied, (even though they are not) but what should equally not be denied is that the greatest democratic demonstration in the history of Scotland that resulted in Scotland remaining in the United Kingdom should be respected.

By all means we should have another in the future, but it should not be within a couple of years since the last one.

The last EU referendum was in 1975 , over 40 years elapsed before the question was asked again. Maybe 40 years is a little too long but a couple of years is certainly not enough either, at least a decade should pass before asked again.

We have not seen the powers given by the Scotland act 2016 fully used by the Scottish government yet so we dont actually know if it was beneficial or not. Its simply too early to tell. This is why people ask them to get on with the day job as thats what they are paid to do, use these powers, use them wisely and maybe in the future the people will see the snp as a party of government rather than a one issue protest group.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Are you Onny with a new name?!!

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By *andACouple over a year ago

glasgow

Does it matter where I live?

As a UK citizen, albeit English, am I not allowed to have a vested interest in Scotland either leaving or remaining part of the UK?"

Of course you're allowed an opinion. Anti-English sentiment boils just below the surface with some nats but don't let that stop you posting.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Does it matter where I live?

As a UK citizen, albeit English, am I not allowed to have a vested interest in Scotland either leaving or remaining part of the UK?

Of course you're allowed an opinion. Anti-English sentiment boils just below the surface with some nats but don't let that stop you posting.

Woaaaaaaaah there cheeky person. There's no anti anything in that question. You suggested that not me. Was a genuine question as to why someone from down south would be passionate about the issue. If the shoe was in the other foot I honestly wouldn't give a toss. I was interested to hear their view in it rather than blunt 'do you accept the vote' on repeat. Not a big ask.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Does it matter where I live?

As a UK citizen, albeit English, am I not allowed to have a vested interest in Scotland either leaving or remaining part of the UK?"

No it doesn't and your Englishness has nothing to do with it, which is why I said '...or lived here' in my original question. I'm just genuinely curious. Absolutely you're entitled to have an opinion. That's what I'm trying to gauge from you. Somewhat unsuccessfully.

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By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

Scotland's majority did not vote to leave the EU do people not care about that ? Some equal UK union this is where Scotland has to shut the fuck up and eat our cereal lol

You're back...

If there was another independence referendum and the majority of Scots voted to reject it would you accept the result?

I will answer by saying yes i would accept the result but in no way will anyone stop me believing independence.

It would appear the pro union side are shite feart to allow the Scottish people a right to change their minds imagine trying to deny people a right to change their minds lol

You had an opportunity to exercise your democratic right in 2014 and another in 2016.

Ironically it was 'unionists' who gave you that opportunity on both occasions!

I don't think anyone wants to see Scotland leave the UK if they are honest. I think more devolved powers to Scotland would work for everyone.

All countries should be independent in my opinion

Then Scotland would be bankrupt within 2 to 3 years in my opinion Scotland just does,nt have a big enough population to support its self as it is now in my opinion.

Thats fair enough thats your opinion the problem with what you say is you think Scotland wouldnt be able to support itself if we gained independence just because of population

So question is do you think Norway a country of 4 million are more than capable of being an independent country and they have as much oil as we do ? "

I worked in Norway for 3 weeks 10 years ago the cost of living is very high I cant see many Scots wanting to pay £6 00 or more for a pint of beer.

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By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

"And I have demonstrated the lie that kinky used. I would not use the term unless I had the ammunition to back it up. It's noted that they did not challenge me on the accusation, Hmm!

By highlighting the fact that a remain vote meant just that, and only that. They wished the UK to remain in the EU, that's all.

To then claim that this remain vote should be hijacked in support of an independence referendum is indeed fraudulent.

I'm not hi-jacking anything. Did Scotland vote overwhelmingly to remain, Yes or no? "

No the result of the referendum for Scotland was Remain 1.6 million Leave 1.1 million did not vote 1.01 million approx, so a majority of 500,000.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Scotland's majority did not vote to leave the EU do people not care about that ? Some equal UK union this is where Scotland has to shut the fuck up and eat our cereal lol

You're back...

If there was another independence referendum and the majority of Scots voted to reject it would you accept the result?

I will answer by saying yes i would accept the result but in no way will anyone stop me believing independence.

It would appear the pro union side are shite feart to allow the Scottish people a right to change their minds imagine trying to deny people a right to change their minds lol

You had an opportunity to exercise your democratic right in 2014 and another in 2016.

Ironically it was 'unionists' who gave you that opportunity on both occasions!

I don't think anyone wants to see Scotland leave the UK if they are honest. I think more devolved powers to Scotland would work for everyone.

All countries should be independent in my opinion

Then Scotland would be bankrupt within 2 to 3 years in my opinion Scotland just does,nt have a big enough population to support its self as it is now in my opinion.

Thats fair enough thats your opinion the problem with what you say is you think Scotland wouldnt be able to support itself if we gained independence just because of population

So question is do you think Norway a country of 4 million are more than capable of being an independent country and they have as much oil as we do ?

I worked in Norway for 3 weeks 10 years ago the cost of living is very high I cant see many Scots wanting to pay £6 00 or more for a pint of beer."

Very true, complete the picture with 4x the salary though. Was there last July and for us, yes fucking expensive. For those employed there all relative.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"And I have demonstrated the lie that kinky used. I would not use the term unless I had the ammunition to back it up. It's noted that they did not challenge me on the accusation, Hmm!

By highlighting the fact that a remain vote meant just that, and only that. They wished the UK to remain in the EU, that's all.

To then claim that this remain vote should be hijacked in support of an independence referendum is indeed fraudulent.

I'm not hi-jacking anything. Did Scotland vote overwhelmingly to remain, Yes or no?

No the result of the referendum for Scotland was Remain 1.6 million Leave 1.1 million did not vote 1.01 million approx, so a majority of 500,000."

Run that tomorrow and guaranteed it would rise in favour of remain. Scotland AND rUK.

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

But it's not, so that's another pointless post.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I answered your questions. If there is something I have missed or not told you then I apologise.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Can you remember the question that was asked on the ballot paper for the EU referendum?

I can't recall Scotland being on it, can you?

And what's your alternative, going it alone?

Out the EU and out the UK?

If you seriously think that's a vote winner then you really should think again. ??

Sorry but 60 % of Scots did not vote to stay in the EU

60 % of those who voted did.

Less than half the total Scottish electorat voted to stay in the EU.

Almost a third thought the EU was so special they did not bother voting !!!

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Can you remember the question that was asked on the ballot paper for the EU referendum?

I can't recall Scotland being on it, can you?

And what's your alternative, going it alone?

Out the EU and out the UK?

If you seriously think that's a vote winner then you really should think again. ??

Sorry but 60 % of Scots did not vote to stay in the EU

60 % of those who voted did.

Less than half the total Scottish electorat voted to stay in the EU.

Almost a third thought the EU was so special they did not bother voting !!!"

Thats what its come to where you start trying to count people that didnt vote lol

So in the end the fact is still 62% majority in Scotland voted remain

Its crazy how 55% majority has got to be respected yet those that say that just ignore 62% majority its weird eh lol

Also those that claim you have to respect the majority dont seem to want to respect the SNP won the election with a majority of Scottish seats and so have a triple lock mandate thats democracy right there.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So in the end the fact is still 62% majority

Its crazy how 55% majority has got to be respected yet those that say that just ignore 62% majority its weird eh lol

The SNP lost the 2014 independence referendum.

The SNP won 63 out of 129 seats in the 2016 Scottish Parliament elections. They needed 65 seats for a majority. They lost 6 seats compared to the previous election.

The 2017 General Election resulted in no party having an overall majority. The SNP won 35 seats (21 seats less than the 2015 General Election).

Yes, the SNP won the most of the 59 seats in Scotland in the 2017 General Election, but with only 36.9% of the vote.

Where is the triple lock? Where is the majority?

Looking at the figures above one could argue the SNP doesn't have a majority anywhere and their support is dwindling.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

So in the end the fact is still 62% majority

Its crazy how 55% majority has got to be respected yet those that say that just ignore 62% majority its weird eh lol

The SNP lost the 2014 independence referendum.

The SNP won 63 out of 129 seats in the 2016 Scottish Parliament elections. They needed 65 seats for a majority. They lost 6 seats compared to the previous election.

The 2017 General Election resulted in no party having an overall majority. The SNP won 35 seats (21 seats less than the 2015 General Election).

Yes, the SNP won the most of the 59 seats in Scotland in the 2017 General Election, but with only 36.9% of the vote.

Where is the triple lock? Where is the majority?

Looking at the figures above one could argue the SNP doesn't have a majority anywhere and their support is dwindling."

You said SNP lost the 2014 independence referendum ? That couldnt be more wrong if you tried the Yes side lost as there were no parites is was a YES side and a No side

Right the SNP won 35 Scottish seats out of 59 therefore that is a majority of Scottish seats and that means they won the election in Scotland there is no other way you can try and spin that.

Right in the SNP 2017 manifesto they did put in saying if they were to win a majority of Scottish seats then they would have a triple lock mandate on the existing mandate they already have. So they did win the election in Scotland therefore have that triple lock mandate.

Wow just wow again i will point it out there is 59 Scottish seats and the SNP took 35 Scottish seats i dont know about you but if you do the math then that is a majority of Scottish seats they SNP won lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Can you remember the question that was asked on the ballot paper for the EU referendum?

I can't recall Scotland being on it, can you?

And what's your alternative, going it alone?

Out the EU and out the UK?

If you seriously think that's a vote winner then you really should think again. ??

Sorry but 60 % of Scots did not vote to stay in the EU

60 % of those who voted did.

Less than half the total Scottish electorat voted to stay in the EU.

Almost a third thought the EU was so special they did not bother voting !!!

Thats what its come to where you start trying to count people that didnt vote lol

So in the end the fact is still 62% majority in Scotland voted remain

Its crazy how 55% majority has got to be respected yet those that say that just ignore 62% majority its weird eh lol

I voted to remain in the EU and I do respect the majority as it was a UK ref the majority voted to leave.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Existing mandate?

They were defeated in the Independence Referendum, don't have a majority in the Scottish Parliament and only got 36.9% of the vote in Scottish seats in the General Election.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Can you remember the question that was asked on the ballot paper for the EU referendum?

I can't recall Scotland being on it, can you?

And what's your alternative, going it alone?

Out the EU and out the UK?

If you seriously think that's a vote winner then you really should think again. ??

Sorry but 60 % of Scots did not vote to stay in the EU

60 % of those who voted did.

Less than half the total Scottish electorat voted to stay in the EU.

Almost a third thought the EU was so special they did not bother voting !!!

Thats what its come to where you start trying to count people that didnt vote lol

So in the end the fact is still 62% majority in Scotland voted remain

Its crazy how 55% majority has got to be respected yet those that say that just ignore 62% majority its weird eh lol

I voted to remain in the EU and I do respect the majority as it was a UK ref the majority voted to leave."

Again Scotland's majority voted to remain in the EU and since the EU referendum the SNP have won a UK election on a manifesto policy and now have a triple lock mandate.

Why are people so against allowing Scottish people to decide on if they agree with the final brexit deal or prefer the option of independence ?

My opinion the way it comes across is the pro unionist side are shite feart to allow another independence referendum.

You should never ever deny people a right to change their minds on independence correct ? Or is the UK dictatorship ?

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Existing mandate?

They were defeated in the Independence Referendum, don't have a majority in the Scottish Parliament and only got 36.9% of the vote in Scottish seats in the General Election.

Erm the existing mandate am talking about is the fact in 2016 the SNP did win the Scottish election as they won 63 seats in Holyrood so thats the existing mandate i am on about and then in 2017 like i said they won 35 Scottish seats in Westminster which is a majority of Scottish seats so therefore they now have a triple lock mandate on the existing mandate they already had from 2016 Scottish election.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The SNP were two seats short of a majority in 2016 Scottish Parliament elections.

The Tories were 9 seats short of a majority in the 2017 General Election - do they have a mandate too?

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

The SNP were two seats short of a majority in 2016 Scottish Parliament elections.

The Tories were 9 seats short of a majority in the 2017 General Election - do they have a mandate too?"

Yes the SNP were two short of a majority in Holyrood correct but in Holyrood there is a pro indy majority and when the vote took place for the section 30 order it passed 69 - 59 so there is the mandate that the Scottish government do have and now they have a triple lock mandate

A mandate to lead the UK no the Tories dont have the mandate. No Mandate now for a hard brexit they will have to start listening and respect Scotland did NOT vote to leave the EU and single market

The Tories dont have a mandate in Scotland thats for damn sure unless somehow people try and spin winning 13 seats in Scotland out of 59 is somehow winning lmao

There is the big problem with the UK union Scotland keeps on rejecting the Tories yet somehow people seem to think its ok for the Tories to cut things in Scotland what cause we are in this union Scotland has to suffer Tory cuts when Scotland didnt vote Tory there is how fucked up the UK is no family of nations no equal partnership straight ass dictatorship where one countries government that claim to talk for the whole of the UK rule over other countries when those countries dont vote for that party ie the Tories

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By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

"And I have demonstrated the lie that kinky used. I would not use the term unless I had the ammunition to back it up. It's noted that they did not challenge me on the accusation, Hmm!

By highlighting the fact that a remain vote meant just that, and only that. They wished the UK to remain in the EU, that's all.

To then claim that this remain vote should be hijacked in support of an independence referendum is indeed fraudulent.

I'm not hi-jacking anything. Did Scotland vote overwhelmingly to remain, Yes or no?

No the result of the referendum for Scotland was Remain 1.6 million Leave 1.1 million did not vote 1.01 million approx, so a majority of 500,000.

Run that tomorrow and guaranteed it would rise in favour of remain. Scotland AND rUK."

You could be right but only because of the way the Tories are doing things, had David Cameron done the job properly and had a plan in place for a vote to leave we would not be in the mess we are in now.

The people were asked a question and the Government were not ready for the answer they got, people can say what they like on here but it will not change anything its up the government now.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The SNP had to rely on support from other parties to get that mandate - they were unable to do it on their own.

In the 2017 General Election, the Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats all gained seats from the SNP.

To quote what you said earlier, maybe the SNP will have to start listening and respect those voters too?

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"The SNP had to rely on support from other parties to get that mandate - they were unable to do it on their own.

In the 2017 General Election, the Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats all gained seats from the SNP.

To quote what you said earlier, maybe the SNP will have to start listening and respect those voters too?"

Lol you do know in that vote for the section 30 order even if the Greens had abstained it still would have passed 63-59 ? lol

Yes i do know SNP lost seats but the fact still remains that the SNP won the election in Scotland by taking 35 Scottish seats out of 59 which by definition means thats a majority correct ?

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By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

The SNP were two seats short of a majority in 2016 Scottish Parliament elections.

The Tories were 9 seats short of a majority in the 2017 General Election - do they have a mandate too?

A mandate to lead the UK no the Tories dont have the mandate. No Mandate now for a hard brexit they will have to start listening and respect Scotland did NOT vote to leave the EU and single market

The Tories dont have a mandate in Scotland thats for damn sure unless somehow people try and spin winning 13 seats in Scotland out of 59 is somehow winning lmao

But the Tories got the majority of the vote for ALL 4 countries which is what the UK is a United Kingdom. Lots of people in England don't want a Tory government but we are stuck with it.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

The SNP were two seats short of a majority in 2016 Scottish Parliament elections.

The Tories were 9 seats short of a majority in the 2017 General Election - do they have a mandate too?

A mandate to lead the UK no the Tories dont have the mandate. No Mandate now for a hard brexit they will have to start listening and respect Scotland did NOT vote to leave the EU and single market

The Tories dont have a mandate in Scotland thats for damn sure unless somehow people try and spin winning 13 seats in Scotland out of 59 is somehow winning lmao

But the Tories got the majority of the vote for ALL 4 countries which is what the UK is a United Kingdom. Lots of people in England don't want a Tory government but we are stuck with it."

Wow that they way your trying spin it lol

So Scotland reject the Tories but must suffer Tory cuts great union eh

No matter what way you spin it the Tories have no majority in Scotland and didnt win in Scotland.

Yeah lots of people in England didnt vote Tory i do feel for them but the majority did for them but doesnt give the Tories the right to think they have power to rule over countries that rejected them

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By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

The SNP were two seats short of a majority in 2016 Scottish Parliament elections.

The Tories were 9 seats short of a majority in the 2017 General Election - do they have a mandate too?

A mandate to lead the UK no the Tories dont have the mandate. No Mandate now for a hard brexit they will have to start listening and respect Scotland did NOT vote to leave the EU and single market

The Tories dont have a mandate in Scotland thats for damn sure unless somehow people try and spin winning 13 seats in Scotland out of 59 is somehow winning lmao

But the Tories got the majority of the vote for ALL 4 countries which is what the UK is a United Kingdom. Lots of people in England don't want a Tory government but we are stuck with it.

Wow that they way your trying spin it lol

So Scotland reject the Tories but must suffer Tory cuts great union eh

No matter what way you spin it the Tories have no majority in Scotland and didnt win in Scotland.

Yeah lots of people in England didnt vote Tory i do feel for them but the majority did for them but doesnt give the Tories the right to think they have power to rule over countries that rejected them

But they have and you know it nothing you can do about it until the next election which might not be that long in coming. People get sick of hearing the same thing over and over again which probably lost the SNP a lot of votes last month. I,m sure Scotland will be free of us one day.

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

I did see that Alec Salmond is going to have his own show at the Edinburgh fringe this year.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

The SNP were two seats short of a majority in 2016 Scottish Parliament elections.

The Tories were 9 seats short of a majority in the 2017 General Election - do they have a mandate too?

A mandate to lead the UK no the Tories dont have the mandate. No Mandate now for a hard brexit they will have to start listening and respect Scotland did NOT vote to leave the EU and single market

The Tories dont have a mandate in Scotland thats for damn sure unless somehow people try and spin winning 13 seats in Scotland out of 59 is somehow winning lmao

But the Tories got the majority of the vote for ALL 4 countries which is what the UK is a United Kingdom. Lots of people in England don't want a Tory government but we are stuck with it.

Wow that they way your trying spin it lol

So Scotland reject the Tories but must suffer Tory cuts great union eh

No matter what way you spin it the Tories have no majority in Scotland and didnt win in Scotland.

Yeah lots of people in England didnt vote Tory i do feel for them but the majority did for them but doesnt give the Tories the right to think they have power to rule over countries that rejected them

So your answer is Scotland didnt vote for the Tories but have to sit down shut up and suffer Tory cuts and no one can say its not Tory cuts btw because i see the pro unionist side claim its SNP cuts but that shit dont wash.

Money aint devolved to Scotland so any money raised in Scotland goes to Westminster for them to give Scotland some of the money back through Barnett .

Also the claim that its SNP cuts really doesnt add up as how do any pro unionist explain this why is it the Welsh government that is Labour run claim its Tory cuts but hear in Scotland it magically is suppose to be SNP cuts i think unionists know they are lying and defending Tory cuts by trying to pass them off as if its the SNP that cutting things.

Also please none of you give me the shit about the SNP have powers to tackle the cuts because that seems the piss poor answer that you want the Scottish government to mitigate everything the Tories not gonna wash how about give Scotland some real power say like any money raised in Scotland stays in Scotland and Home Rule which Scotland is still waiting on and thats been over a 100years now since Keir Hardie wanted Home Rule for Scotland shame on them for pissing on his grave

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"I did see that Alec Salmond is going to have his own show at the Edinburgh fringe this year.

What is he not allowed or something is that pro union policy ?

I also see pro unionist papers make up utter shite that they are calling on Alex Salmond to take up a role as an unelected Lord in the House of Lords you couldnt make that shite up do they even have a fucking clue it is not SNP policy to send any member to the Lords because SNP are anti House of Lords but hey that doesnt stop the BritNat media making up shite like they do lol

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Also i forgot to mention the wee piece on Sunday politics Scotland where Raymond Robertson said this wee lovely quote which i will debunk in a min

'' Nobody will invest in Scotland due to IndyRef''

Strange i remember last year the Scottish government going out find investment in China was the BritNat media claimed was a secret deal which wasnt a deal lol and the unionist branch offices going off their nut and not happy with the Scottish government doing that

Then when the £10 billion agreement between the Scottish Government and Chinese firms collapsed all the unionist branch offices were not happy strange as they were the ones that didnt want the secret so called deal that wasnt a deal in the first place couldnt make that shite up lol

So that had fuck all to do with losing investment because of an independence referendum and it was the cause of the unionist branches being so negative and press reports relating to the deal

So the unionist branches fucked over Scotland getting 10Billion worth of investment. Goes to show who really is shafting Scotland

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

"I did see that Alec Salmond is going to have his own show at the Edinburgh fringe this year.

What is he not allowed or something is that pro union policy ?

He can do what he likes. That's the luxury of not being an MP anymore, but I'm sure he'll be gracing the rest of us with his usual political wit and opinion.

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

I will give you that argument that that Scottish government can do something about it but chooses not to.

If you believe that tory policy is wrong and the snp do nothing about it, then they are equally complicit in this perceived wrong doing. By standing by and allowing it to happen in their area of responsibility.

I, m reminded of this saying, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

The so called "good men" in the snp are indeed doing nothing.

Would you watch someone drown in a swimming pool, even though you could save them by using the defence of "it's not my job", it's the life guards job?

Whats the point of having a Scottish Parliament when it chooses not to do things differently from the UK parliament?

It becomes just an extension of Westminster, implementing tory policy here rather that a parliament to reflect the wishes of the Scottish people.

But you can't criticise the dear leader or the party can you?

Its not allowed, "das ist vorboten."

#notacult ??

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"I did see that Alec Salmond is going to have his own show at the Edinburgh fringe this year.

What is he not allowed or something is that pro union policy ?

He can do what he likes. That's the luxury of not being an MP anymore, but I'm sure he'll be gracing the rest of us with his usual political wit and opinion."

And the point being ? Thats his right to give his thoughts on the political side of things just as former mp's like Margaret Curran does thats her right i choose not to listen to her though you may choice not to listen to Alex

But i really dont get your point

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"I will give you that argument that that Scottish government can do something about it but chooses not to.

I, m reminded of this saying, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

The so called "good men" in the snp are indeed doing nothing.

Would you watch someone drown in a swimming pool, even though you could save them by using the defence of "it's not my job", it's the life guards job?

Whats the point of having a Scottish Parliament when it chooses not to do things differently from the UK parliament?

It becomes just an extension of Westminster, implementing tory policy here rather that a parliament to reflect the wishes of the Scottish people.

But you can't criticise the dear leader or the party can you?

Its not allowed, "das ist vorboten."

#notacult ??

So thats it then you want the Scottish government to just keep on mitigating things like the bedroom tax when you know full well Scotland rejected the Tories ?

How about this the UK government give Scotland real powers and how about this stop giving Westminster the money that is raised in Scotland.

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

"I did see that Alec Salmond is going to have his own show at the Edinburgh fringe this year.

What is he not allowed or something is that pro union policy ?

He can do what he likes. That's the luxury of not being an MP anymore, but I'm sure he'll be gracing the rest of us with his usual political wit and opinion.

But i really dont get your point "

The only point was that it was announced today, that he was having his own show at the fringe. Bound to be popular, so my posting gives you as much notice as possible to get your tickets.

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

"How about this the UK government give Scotland real powers and how about this stop giving Westminster the money that is raised in Scotland."

They have powers, but choose not to use them. Why do you persist in this denial that they do not have powers to make significant changes to people's lives?

They do, but choose not to use them!

That would mean FFA, you would need to explain how much of reserved areas of responsibility would be transferred to Scotland first. For example defence, foreign affairs, embassies etc.

As it stands, Scotland would have a deficit to fill, how would you fill this deficit?

Or are you under the naive childish delusion that the Barnett formula would remain in place.

I, d love to see your detailed and fully costed plan for FFA. Please share it.

I can remember George Keravans version, and it wasn't pleasant reading for our public services here in Scotland.

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

"The only point was that it was announced today, that he was having his own show at the fringe. Bound to be popular, so my posting gives you as much notice as possible to get your tickets."

#notacult

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

""How about this the UK government give Scotland real powers and how about this stop giving Westminster the money that is raised in Scotland."

They have powers, but choose not to use them. Why do you persist in this denial that they do not have powers to make significant changes to people's lives?

They do, but choose not to use them!

That would mean FFA, you would need to explain how much of reserved areas of responsibility would be transferred to Scotland first. For example defence, foreign affairs, embassies etc.

As it stands, Scotland would have a deficit to fill, how would you fill this deficit?

Or are you under the naive childish delusion that the Barnett formula would remain in place.

I, d love to see your detailed and fully costed plan for FFA. Please share it.

I can remember George Keravans version, and it wasn't pleasant reading for our public services here in Scotland.

Ok so what powers would you want them to use ? Let me guess raise tax ?Thats a real vote winner eh

My point stands why would you want the Scottish government to keep on mitigating Tory cuts when Scotland did not vote for the Tories ?

Ah that would be the deficit that shows you what Scotland is like under the UK but does not show you what an independent would look like. Remember Kevin Hague finally admitted that on live radio.

How much does Scotland give out to fund Trident ? 200 billion + for that useless weapon and am asking how much does Scotland pay for that ?

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

[Removed by poster at 11/07/17 17:38:53]

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Here is something else that needs pointing out just so people remember

in 2014 the No camp / unionist parties claimed an independent Scotland could not walk away from the UK debt

Fast forward to now and some double standards going on from Boris Johnson saying the EU can go whistle over the EU divorce bill.

So lets all remember this for when the new independence referendum is called and the pro unionist side try and use that shite again about an independent Scotland would need to take a share of the UK debt lol

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

"My point stands why would you want the Scottish government to keep on mitigating Tory cuts when Scotland did not vote for the Tories ?"

Because that's what the people of Scotland wants, it did not want tory policy but the snp government continues with it against the wishes of the Scottish people.

Scotland did not vote tory yet the Scottish government could do something different more akin to the Scottish voters wishes yet it chooses not to.

I think your getting it now.

We made a different choice, but the Scottish government refused to implement that choice by NOT using existing powers to make that difference.

What is the point of a Scottish parliament with unique powers to make a difference but it chooses not to utilise those powers, make decisions that reflect the electorate of Scotlands wishes.

Isn't that the whole point of devolution?

All I,m saying is if you don't like tory policy and are against it. Why would you carry out this policy against the wishes of the people who you said never voted tory in the first place.

The snp are complicit in the continuation of tory policies by doing nothing!

Are you happy with a government that does nothing?

Stronger for Scotland they said, tory collaboration for Scotland more like.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

""My point stands why would you want the Scottish government to keep on mitigating Tory cuts when Scotland did not vote for the Tories ?"

Because that's what the people of Scotland wants, it did not want tory policy but the snp government continues with it against the wishes of the Scottish people.

Scotland did not vote tory yet the Scottish government could do something different more akin to the Scottish voters wishes yet it chooses not to.

I think your getting it now.

We made a different choice, but the Scottish government refused to implement that choice by NOT using existing powers to make that difference.

What is the point of a Scottish parliament with unique powers to make a difference but it chooses not to utilise those powers, make decisions that reflect the electorate of Scotlands wishes.

Isn't that the whole point of devolution?

All I,m saying is if you don't like tory policy and are against it. Why would you carry out this policy against the wishes of the people who you said never voted tory in the first place.

The snp are complicit in the continuation of tory policies by doing nothing!

Are you happy with a government that does nothing?

Stronger for Scotland they said, tory collaboration for Scotland more like. "

So what powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? What existing powers do you want them to use ?

I dont like the fact Scotland rejects the Tories but Scotland has to suffer Tory cuts and the best you have is saying the Scottish government should mitigate anything the Tories through at us piss poor.

I ask you and be honest do you like the fact the Scottish government have to mitigate the bedroom tax so no one in Scotland has to pay for it or would you rather that was devolved to Scotland where the Scottish government would be able to scrap it instead of having to use money out of the budget ? Be honest now

Wow just honest wow so mitigating the bedroom is doing nothing for Scotland wouldnt have to mitigate it if people would stand up and give a shit and tell the Tories get to fuck with theor cuts and shove them up their arse Scotland dont want them and why should our government use money to mitigate it yet you will have pro unionists moan their arses off saying the SNP dont use the money in the budget go figure

Also am still waiting how much does Scotland pay for trident ?

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

I see you have been unable to lay out a coherent and costed case for FFA.

You want the people of Scotland to buy something that you and they would not know the cost of.

Do you often buy things without knowing the price of them?

I don't, and I don't know many sane people that do.

You ask me the price of Trident, don't you know?

Are you unable to do so?

More hot air and no substance from you.

Yet that is a crucial part of your argument, which suggests to me that you really have no idea if the subject at hand.

I,ll try and help you out!

How much does the new system cost? I've seen a figure of £100bn.

It's service life is expected to be 40 years.

So divide the total cost by 40 and that would be the annual cost, then divide that into the per capita (8.9%) share of Scotland and you get a figure of around £250m pa, less than the average John Swinney underspend. ??

£15bn - £250m = £14.75bn

Tell me where you going to get £14.75bn please.

And let's not forget, we do get some economic benefit from them being here so it actually will cost less when balanced out.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I, d love to see your detailed and fully costed plan for FFA. Please share it.

I'd like to see one, anything, hell even a made up figure for a laugh, for Brexit. Yet, here we are.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"das ist vorboten."

Ahhhhh there it is. There will be an Arthur Donaldson/ nazi ref along shortly. Sit tight folks.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"I see you have been unable to lay out a coherent and costed case for FFA.

You want the people of Scotland to buy something that you and they would not know the cost of.

Do you often buy things without knowing the price of them?

I don't, and I don't know many sane people that do.

You ask me the price of Trident, don't you know?

Are you unable to do so?

More hot air and no substance from you.

Yet that is a crucial part of your argument, which suggests to me that you really have no idea if the subject at hand.

I,ll try and help you out!

How much does the new system cost? I've seen a figure of £100bn.

It's service life is expected to be 40 years.

£15bn - £250m = £14.75bn

Tell me where you going to get £14.75bn please.

And let's not forget, we do get some economic benefit from them being here so it actually will cost less when balanced out.

Lol

Again what powers /existing powers do you want the Scottish government to use ?

So how much does Scotland pay for trident ? This is a point to this and you will see when you answer

Also do you like the fact the Scottish government have to mitigate the bedroom tax so no one in Scotland has to pay for it or would you rather that was devolved to Scotland where the Scottish government would be able to scrap it instead of having to use money out of the budget ? Be honest now