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London Fisheries' Convention
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WOW! There's a new one. We were all led to believe that it was the EU's Common Fisheries' Policy that was the cause of the demise of the fishing industry. Now it seems to be turning out that its the result of an agreement on fisheries made on 1964, 8 years before we even joined the EEC.
No doubt many will be Googling to find out exactly what the London Fisheries' Convention actually says and how this relates to the EU's Common Fisheries' Policy but it's starting to look, just like with immigration, this may be another area were all governments have found it easier to simply blame the EU rather than taking action that they could have taken if they had really wanted to. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I do a lot of fishing. I was out fishing this morning for sea bass and i think some of these changes will be good. Protecting inshore fishing will be great if they do it right and make it sustainabe.More fish for me and the inshore fleet  |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
As I understand it, revoking this means nothing as it was superseded by the EU conventions and therefore subject to Brexit negotiations. It sounds like Gove is just politicking for the sake of something to say.
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
I remember telling people there were other fishing treaties other than the CFP quite a while ago, but this was vehemently denied by brexiters.
But I'm sure the fishing industry will be thrilled that Gove has just stopped them from fishing in 5 territorial waters  |
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Unclear to me if the Fisheries Convention was revoked when we joined the CFP, I think it was likely just subsumed or superceded but still technically in force - if not when/if we pull out of CFP with Brexit we could revert to the Fisheries Convention - I think this is why Gove may have pulled out of it to pre-empt that situation - however I am not a lawyer so if someone knows more I'd be interested to hear about it. Also I do think fisheries and access for non-UK vessels will probably be used as a bargaining tool during the Brexit negotiations. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Unclear to me if the Fisheries Convention was revoked when we joined the CFP, I think it was likely just subsumed or superceded but still technically in force - if not when/if we pull out of CFP with Brexit we could revert to the Fisheries Convention - I think this is why Gove may have pulled out of it to pre-empt that situation - however I am not a lawyer so if someone knows more I'd be interested to hear about it. Also I do think fisheries and access for non-UK vessels will probably be used as a bargaining tool during the Brexit negotiations."
That is exactly what Gove said this morning. It's an old regulation...overwritten by current EU rules but it WOULD still apply if we pull out of the CFP. Hence it is simply tidying up prior to negotiations. No news here for either side...move along please! |
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We always new that BREXIT lied to us all about how much we pay the EU. We also already know that they are lying to us when they tell us their fantasies about international trade. It's now also becoming obvious that they've been lying to us about immigration control from the EU. How long do you think it's going to take for us to find out the demise of the British Fishing fleet being the fault of the EU is just another BREXIT lie. |
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"Unclear to me if the Fisheries Convention was revoked when we joined the CFP, I think it was likely just subsumed or superceded but still technically in force - if not when/if we pull out of CFP with Brexit we could revert to the Fisheries Convention - I think this is why Gove may have pulled out of it to pre-empt that situation - however I am not a lawyer so if someone knows more I'd be interested to hear about it. Also I do think fisheries and access for non-UK vessels will probably be used as a bargaining tool during the Brexit negotiations."
Considering Gove used to be Justice secretary he does know a hell of a lot about law. This is a smart move by Gove and as you say it will tidy up any loose ends that could arise after or during Brexit negotiations. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Unclear to me if the Fisheries Convention was revoked when we joined the CFP, I think it was likely just subsumed or superceded but still technically in force - if not when/if we pull out of CFP with Brexit we could revert to the Fisheries Convention - I think this is why Gove may have pulled out of it to pre-empt that situation - however I am not a lawyer so if someone knows more I'd be interested to hear about it. Also I do think fisheries and access for non-UK vessels will probably be used as a bargaining tool during the Brexit negotiations.
Considering Gove used to be Justice secretary he does know a hell of a lot about law. This is a smart move by Gove and as you say it will tidy up any loose ends that could arise after or during Brexit negotiations. "
So why wasn't this done decades ago? |
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"Unclear to me if the Fisheries Convention was revoked when we joined the CFP, I think it was likely just subsumed or superceded but still technically in force - if not when/if we pull out of CFP with Brexit we could revert to the Fisheries Convention - I think this is why Gove may have pulled out of it to pre-empt that situation - however I am not a lawyer so if someone knows more I'd be interested to hear about it. Also I do think fisheries and access for non-UK vessels will probably be used as a bargaining tool during the Brexit negotiations.
Considering Gove used to be Justice secretary he does know a hell of a lot about law. This is a smart move by Gove and as you say it will tidy up any loose ends that could arise after or during Brexit negotiations. "
He was also education secretary and i can assure you he knows the square root of f*** all about that...he knows similar amounts about the law and the environment. Relying on Gove to tell you the truth is not a smart move. |
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"If they did change the fishing rights will fish become a lot cheaper to buy ?
Probably not so what's the point ?"
Will create more jobs in the British fishing industry which will be better for our economy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Unclear to me if the Fisheries Convention was revoked when we joined the CFP, I think it was likely just subsumed or superceded but still technically in force - if not when/if we pull out of CFP with Brexit we could revert to the Fisheries Convention - I think this is why Gove may have pulled out of it to pre-empt that situation - however I am not a lawyer so if someone knows more I'd be interested to hear about it. Also I do think fisheries and access for non-UK vessels will probably be used as a bargaining tool during the Brexit negotiations.
Considering Gove used to be Justice secretary he does know a hell of a lot about law. This is a smart move by Gove and as you say it will tidy up any loose ends that could arise after or during Brexit negotiations.
So why wasn't this done decades ago? "
Wasn't necessary as EU rules superseded it. Once the EU rules cease to apply it would become the fall-back position if left in place. It makes perfect sense to revoke it in preparation.
It's not rocket science to anyone with an IQ into double figures. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they did change the fishing rights will fish become a lot cheaper to buy ?
Probably not so what's the point ?
Will create more jobs in the British fishing industry which will be better for our economy. "
Ok genius explain were these jobs are going to come from....or is this something else you just plucked out the air  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they did change the fishing rights will fish become a lot cheaper to buy ?
Probably not so what's the point ?
Will create more jobs in the British fishing industry which will be better for our economy.
Ok genius explain were these jobs are going to come from....or is this something else you just plucked out the air "
But it will not bring down the prices to the average family no matter who fishes it.
Some big businesses will profit and more than likely foriegn owned ones.
They will just sell the fishing rights, that's all that will happen.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Hopefully they wont increase catch size for our fleet and ban all other fleets from entering our inshore waters and allow ourstocks to recover. It would short sighted to increase quotas and the fleet.Theyll be no more jobs but we will have sustainability. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they did change the fishing rights will fish become a lot cheaper to buy ?
Probably not so what's the point ?
Will create more jobs in the British fishing industry which will be better for our economy.
Ok genius explain were these jobs are going to come from....or is this something else you just plucked out the air
But it will not bring down the prices to the average family no matter who fishes it.
Some big businesses will profit and more than likely foriegn owned ones.
They will just sell the fishing rights, that's all that will happen.
"
They sold them years ago...thats why all the Spanish and French etc etc are fishing here  |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Unclear to me if the Fisheries Convention was revoked when we joined the CFP, I think it was likely just subsumed or superceded but still technically in force - if not when/if we pull out of CFP with Brexit we could revert to the Fisheries Convention - I think this is why Gove may have pulled out of it to pre-empt that situation - however I am not a lawyer so if someone knows more I'd be interested to hear about it. Also I do think fisheries and access for non-UK vessels will probably be used as a bargaining tool during the Brexit negotiations.
Considering Gove used to be Justice secretary he does know a hell of a lot about law. This is a smart move by Gove and as you say it will tidy up any loose ends that could arise after or during Brexit negotiations.
So why wasn't this done decades ago?
Wasn't necessary as EU rules superseded it. Once the EU rules cease to apply it would become the fall-back position if left in place. It makes perfect sense to revoke it in preparation.
It's not rocket science to anyone with an IQ into double figures."
Really? As the convention we just pulled out of covers 6 to 12 miles off our shores and the CFP only covers 12-200 miles. So why didnt we pull out of it years ago? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Hopefully they wont increase catch size for our fleet and ban all other fleets from entering our inshore waters and allow ourstocks to recover. It would short sighted to increase quotas and the fleet.Theyll be no more jobs but we will have sustainability."
You believe that? Since when have the Tories been about sustainability rather than a quick buck? |
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"If they did change the fishing rights will fish become a lot cheaper to buy ?
Probably not so what's the point ?
Will create more jobs in the British fishing industry which will be better for our economy.
Ok genius explain were these jobs are going to come from....or is this something else you just plucked out the air
But it will not bring down the prices to the average family no matter who fishes it.
Some big businesses will profit and more than likely foriegn owned ones.
They will just sell the fishing rights, that's all that will happen.
They sold them years ago...thats why all the Spanish and French etc etc are fishing here "
And there in lies the real rub as to why so much 'British' fish is caught and landed by boats not harbouring in British ports. The British Government allowed British fishermen and their boats to sell their catch quotas to the highest bidder and those highest bidders were mostly French, Spanish and Dutch. We don't have to leave the EU to get them back, we just have to buy them back if we really want them back. Yet another BREXIT lie exposed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they did change the fishing rights will fish become a lot cheaper to buy ?
Probably not so what's the point ?
Will create more jobs in the British fishing industry which will be better for our economy.
Ok genius explain were these jobs are going to come from....or is this something else you just plucked out the air
But it will not bring down the prices to the average family no matter who fishes it.
Some big businesses will profit and more than likely foriegn owned ones.
They will just sell the fishing rights, that's all that will happen.
They sold them years ago...thats why all the Spanish and French etc etc are fishing here
And there in lies the real rub as to why so much 'British' fish is caught and landed by boats not harbouring in British ports. The British Government allowed British fishermen and their boats to sell their catch quotas to the highest bidder and those highest bidders were mostly French, Spanish and Dutch. We don't have to leave the EU to get them back, we just have to buy them back if we really want them back. Yet another BREXIT lie exposed."
Will also be pretty difficult to get back to fishing after the trawler owners were paid by the government of the time to scrap them |
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"If they did change the fishing rights will fish become a lot cheaper to buy ?
Probably not so what's the point ?
Will create more jobs in the British fishing industry which will be better for our economy.
Ok genius explain were these jobs are going to come from....or is this something else you just plucked out the air
But it will not bring down the prices to the average family no matter who fishes it.
Some big businesses will profit and more than likely foriegn owned ones.
They will just sell the fishing rights, that's all that will happen.
They sold them years ago...thats why all the Spanish and French etc etc are fishing here
And there in lies the real rub as to why so much 'British' fish is caught and landed by boats not harbouring in British ports. The British Government allowed British fishermen and their boats to sell their catch quotas to the highest bidder and those highest bidders were mostly French, Spanish and Dutch. We don't have to leave the EU to get them back, we just have to buy them back if we really want them back. Yet another BREXIT lie exposed.
Will also be pretty difficult to get back to fishing after the trawler owners were paid by the government of the time to scrap them "
It's actually even worse than that. The EU had a scrappage scheme which, in order to decrease over fishing, compensated boat owners who scrapped their boats. However the British Government choose not to take advantage of the scheme but instead allowed the boat owners to sell their catch quotas to the highest bidder and, after taxes, use the money left from the sale as their compensation. This means, when that quota is sold outside the UK, that that portion of Britain's total catch is lost forever, unless it's bought back. No other EU country has ever allowed the sale of fishing quotas in this way; which is why Britain is the only country im the EU that has a large part of its total fishing allowance actually fished by none British harboured boats. |
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"Unclear to me if the Fisheries Convention was revoked when we joined the CFP, I think it was likely just subsumed or superceded but still technically in force - if not when/if we pull out of CFP with Brexit we could revert to the Fisheries Convention - I think this is why Gove may have pulled out of it to pre-empt that situation - however I am not a lawyer so if someone knows more I'd be interested to hear about it. Also I do think fisheries and access for non-UK vessels will probably be used as a bargaining tool during the Brexit negotiations.
Considering Gove used to be Justice secretary he does know a hell of a lot about law. This is a smart move by Gove and as you say it will tidy up any loose ends that could arise after or during Brexit negotiations.
So why wasn't this done decades ago?
Wasn't necessary as EU rules superseded it. Once the EU rules cease to apply it would become the fall-back position if left in place. It makes perfect sense to revoke it in preparation.
It's not rocket science to anyone with an IQ into double figures.
Really? As the convention we just pulled out of covers 6 to 12 miles off our shores and the CFP only covers 12-200 miles. So why didnt we pull out of it years ago? "
It is not correct that the CFP starts at 12 nm off the coast, it actually applies to all waters but there is an exception with regards to access in the inshore waters.
"In the waters up to 12 nautical miles from the coasts of the EU countries access can be limited by the EU country to vessels and fisheries that traditionally fish in those waters from adjacent ports, to vessels identified under existing neighbourhood relations, and to vessels related to fisheries as listed in the CFP" - so we chose to roll the London Fisheries Convention into this part of the CFP. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Unclear to me if the Fisheries Convention was revoked when we joined the CFP, I think it was likely just subsumed or superceded but still technically in force - if not when/if we pull out of CFP with Brexit we could revert to the Fisheries Convention - I think this is why Gove may have pulled out of it to pre-empt that situation - however I am not a lawyer so if someone knows more I'd be interested to hear about it. Also I do think fisheries and access for non-UK vessels will probably be used as a bargaining tool during the Brexit negotiations.
Considering Gove used to be Justice secretary he does know a hell of a lot about law. This is a smart move by Gove and as you say it will tidy up any loose ends that could arise after or during Brexit negotiations.
So why wasn't this done decades ago?
Wasn't necessary as EU rules superseded it. Once the EU rules cease to apply it would become the fall-back position if left in place. It makes perfect sense to revoke it in preparation.
It's not rocket science to anyone with an IQ into double figures.
Really? As the convention we just pulled out of covers 6 to 12 miles off our shores and the CFP only covers 12-200 miles. So why didnt we pull out of it years ago?
It is not correct that the CFP starts at 12 nm off the coast, it actually applies to all waters but there is an exception with regards to access in the inshore waters.
"In the waters up to 12 nautical miles from the coasts of the EU countries access can be limited by the EU country to vessels and fisheries that traditionally fish in those waters from adjacent ports, to vessels identified under existing neighbourhood relations, and to vessels related to fisheries as listed in the CFP" - so we chose to roll the London Fisheries Convention into this part of the CFP."
So you are saying that by pulling out of the convention, our waters upto 12 miles will no longer be limited to 5 other countries to fish, but instead can now be fished by any EU member state? |
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OK it is confusing - legally the CFP covers all member states waters from the coastline out, but member states retain exclusive control over the zone 0 to 6 nm from the coast and the CFP also includes an exception between 6-12 nm where states have discretion to allow neighbouring states to fish in this zone. Either zone 0-6 or 0-12 nm is often called the Inshore zone. The UK choose to continue the pre-existing London Convention which applies to this zone when it joined the CFP allowing access to boats from some neighbouring countries, like Ireland, which had historically fished in the 6-12 nm zone.
When we withdraw from the CFP as part of Brexit we would probably not have been able to ban vessels from Ireland etc. fishing in this zone because we would have reverted to the pre-existing London Convention - hence why I think Gove decided to withdraw from the London Convention ahead of our withdrawl from the CFP.
However, fishing rights are likely to be a fairly big issue in the Brexit negotiations so the UK Government might end up giving away some access rights in exchange for something else - like retaining a zero tarif on fish we export to the EU (which is currently about 60% of the fish we land in the UK). |
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"OK it is confusing - legally the CFP covers all member states waters from the coastline out, but member states retain exclusive control over the zone 0 to 6 nm from the coast and the CFP also includes an exception between 6-12 nm where states have discretion to allow neighbouring states to fish in this zone. Either zone 0-6 or 0-12 nm is often called the Inshore zone. The UK choose to continue the pre-existing London Convention which applies to this zone when it joined the CFP allowing access to boats from some neighbouring countries, like Ireland, which had historically fished in the 6-12 nm zone.
When we withdraw from the CFP as part of Brexit we would probably not have been able to ban vessels from Ireland etc. fishing in this zone because we would have reverted to the pre-existing London Convention - hence why I think Gove decided to withdraw from the London Convention ahead of our withdrawl from the CFP.
However, fishing rights are likely to be a fairly big issue in the Brexit negotiations so the UK Government might end up giving away some access rights in exchange for something else - like retaining a zero tarif on fish we export to the EU (which is currently about 60% of the fish we land in the UK)."
I'm glad you've made that clear because it definitely is a little confusing.
I am wondering why we're planning on stopping Irish, French and Dutch boats from fishing within the 12 mile limit when they have been doing it traditionally for hundreds of years. I'm also wondering how this is going to effect British boats that traditionally fish in French and Irish waters, especially how is this going to work in Northern Ireland?.
Does the London Fisheries agreement cover the British and French waters around the Channel Islands? I can see a whole can of worms opening up on this once the details and their implications become clearer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"OK it is confusing - legally the CFP covers all member states waters from the coastline out, but member states retain exclusive control over the zone 0 to 6 nm from the coast and the CFP also includes an exception between 6-12 nm where states have discretion to allow neighbouring states to fish in this zone. Either zone 0-6 or 0-12 nm is often called the Inshore zone. The UK choose to continue the pre-existing London Convention which applies to this zone when it joined the CFP allowing access to boats from some neighbouring countries, like Ireland, which had historically fished in the 6-12 nm zone.
When we withdraw from the CFP as part of Brexit we would probably not have been able to ban vessels from Ireland etc. fishing in this zone because we would have reverted to the pre-existing London Convention - hence why I think Gove decided to withdraw from the London Convention ahead of our withdrawl from the CFP.
However, fishing rights are likely to be a fairly big issue in the Brexit negotiations so the UK Government might end up giving away some access rights in exchange for something else - like retaining a zero tarif on fish we export to the EU (which is currently about 60% of the fish we land in the UK).
I'm glad you've made that clear because it definitely is a little confusing.
I am wondering why we're planning on stopping Irish, French and Dutch boats from fishing within the 12 mile limit when they have been doing it traditionally for hundreds of years. I'm also wondering how this is going to effect British boats that traditionally fish in French and Irish waters, especially how is this going to work in Northern Ireland?.
Does the London Fisheries agreement cover the British and French waters around the Channel Islands? I can see a whole can of worms opening up on this once the details and their implications become clearer."
Most of our fleet is inshore fishing.Very few vessels go beyond 12 miles. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Think the other lie was ukip carring about fishing and then turning up to 8 out of 34 fishing meetings or something similar."
Given that most meeting just keep on going over the same old shite that are put in the minuets anyways they probably only turned up when there was actually something to vote on |
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"OK it is confusing - legally the CFP covers all member states waters from the coastline out, but member states retain exclusive control over the zone 0 to 6 nm from the coast and the CFP also includes an exception between 6-12 nm where states have discretion to allow neighbouring states to fish in this zone. Either zone 0-6 or 0-12 nm is often called the Inshore zone. The UK choose to continue the pre-existing London Convention which applies to this zone when it joined the CFP allowing access to boats from some neighbouring countries, like Ireland, which had historically fished in the 6-12 nm zone.
When we withdraw from the CFP as part of Brexit we would probably not have been able to ban vessels from Ireland etc. fishing in this zone because we would have reverted to the pre-existing London Convention - hence why I think Gove decided to withdraw from the London Convention ahead of our withdrawl from the CFP.
However, fishing rights are likely to be a fairly big issue in the Brexit negotiations so the UK Government might end up giving away some access rights in exchange for something else - like retaining a zero tarif on fish we export to the EU (which is currently about 60% of the fish we land in the UK).
I'm glad you've made that clear because it definitely is a little confusing.
I am wondering why we're planning on stopping Irish, French and Dutch boats from fishing within the 12 mile limit when they have been doing it traditionally for hundreds of years. I'm also wondering how this is going to effect British boats that traditionally fish in French and Irish waters, especially how is this going to work in Northern Ireland?.
Does the London Fisheries agreement cover the British and French waters around the Channel Islands? I can see a whole can of worms opening up on this once the details and their implications become clearer. Most of our fleet is inshore fishing.Very few vessels go beyond 12 miles."
In terms of numbers of vessels you are right but in terms of landings by volume or value the offshore sector dominates. Basically because it is larger vessels working further out. |
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