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Sinn Fien ?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I don't have the maths to hand , but I'm curious , if they did a u turn and took thier seats and voted against the torys , what are the numbers ?
Is Corbyn trying to get them to ?
Or would it back fire on him ?
I've no agender or oppinion here , just curious as to how close it would make things ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Do you know what they stand for. There is no chance on earth that Sinn Fein will take their seats. The British Parliament and their rule over Northern Ireland is abhorrent to them so they could not take their seats, irrelevant of the coalition mathematics. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Do you know what they stand for. There is no chance on earth that Sinn Fein will take their seats. The British Parliament and their rule over Northern Ireland is abhorrent to them so they could not take their seats, irrelevant of the coalition mathematics."
Yes I do ! But who knows ? Who could have imagined Mcguiness and Paisley working together !
They may figure if they help get Corbyn in they would get a united ireland ? |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Do you know what they stand for. There is no chance on earth that Sinn Fein will take their seats. The British Parliament and their rule over Northern Ireland is abhorrent to them so they could not take their seats, irrelevant of the coalition mathematics.
Yes I do ! But who knows ? Who could have imagined Mcguiness and Paisley working together !
They may figure if they help get Corbyn in they would get a united ireland ? "
They cant defeat the tory and dup numbers and if they tried it would strengthen the dup resolve to keep corbyn out, |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Do you know what they stand for. There is no chance on earth that Sinn Fein will take their seats. The British Parliament and their rule over Northern Ireland is abhorrent to them so they could not take their seats, irrelevant of the coalition mathematics."
I agree they won't for this, but I wonder if they would for any circumstance, for example if there was a vote on NI leaving the Union |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Do you know what they stand for. There is no chance on earth that Sinn Fein will take their seats. The British Parliament and their rule over Northern Ireland is abhorrent to them so they could not take their seats, irrelevant of the coalition mathematics.
Yes I do ! But who knows ? Who could have imagined Mcguiness and Paisley working together !
They may figure if they help get Corbyn in they would get a united ireland ?
They cant defeat the tory and dup numbers and if they tried it would strengthen the dup resolve to keep corbyn out, "
Yep  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To sit as an MP, you have to swear allegiance to The Crown, in this case, The Queen.
It's against everything that Sinn Fein believes in. They could never set foot in the Houses of parliament."
Together Alone..! |
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"To sit as an MP, you have to swear allegiance to The Crown, in this case, The Queen.
It's against everything that Sinn Fein believes in. They could never set foot in the Houses of parliament."
Except for when they visited 2 years ago, and back in the mid nineties too |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Do you know what they stand for. There is no chance on earth that Sinn Fein will take their seats. The British Parliament and their rule over Northern Ireland is abhorrent to them so they could not take their seats, irrelevant of the coalition mathematics.
I agree they won't for this, but I wonder if they would for any circumstance, for example if there was a vote on NI leaving the Union "
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"To sit as an MP, you have to swear allegiance to The Crown, in this case, The Queen.
It's against everything that Sinn Fein believes in. They could never set foot in the Houses of parliament."
yes but they have offices in the building ? |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"To sit as an MP, you have to swear allegiance to The Crown, in this case, The Queen.
It's against everything that Sinn Fein believes in. They could never set foot in the Houses of parliament. yes but they have offices in the building ?"
Yes, bad wording from me. They hold a policy of boycotting the House Of Commons; they do have an office as they still take up their parliamentary allowances, despite their absent policy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To sit as an MP, you have to swear allegiance to The Crown, in this case, The Queen.
It's against everything that Sinn Fein believes in. They could never set foot in the Houses of parliament."
It didn't stop IRA members setting foot when Corbin invited them for tea and a cosy chat just after the Brighton Bimbings! |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"To sit as an MP, you have to swear allegiance to The Crown, in this case, The Queen.
It's against everything that Sinn Fein believes in. They could never set foot in the Houses of parliament.
It didn't stop IRA members setting foot when Corbin invited them for tea and a cosy chat just after the Brighton Bimbings!"
To be factually correct, the PIRA aren't Sinn Fein, and Sinn Fein aren't the PIRA.
The links between the two are many though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To sit as an MP, you have to swear allegiance to The Crown, in this case, The Queen.
It's against everything that Sinn Fein believes in. They could never set foot in the Houses of parliament.
It didn't stop IRA members setting foot when Corbin invited them for tea and a cosy chat just after the Brighton Bimbings!"
Bimbings!.. Lol better than bumbings  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Hypothetically speaking, even if Sinn Fein took up their 7 seats, because the DUP are supporting the conservatives with their 10 seats, Corbyn still wouldn't have enough votes to defeat the government.
Number required for a Majority - 326.
Conservatives have 318. Add the DUP gives you 328. |
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"To sit as an MP, you have to swear allegiance to The Crown, in this case, The Queen.
It's against everything that Sinn Fein believes in. They could never set foot in the Houses of parliament."
MPs actually swear allegiance to the sovereign, the sovereign's heir's and successors ACCORDING TO LAW.
That last bit is what allows republicans to swear the oath because, if in law, we became a republic the sovereign's heir, according to law, would be whoever the law said was now the Head of State.
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"It didn't stop IRA members setting foot when Corbin invited them for tea and a cosy chat just after the Brighton Bimbings!"
Really...
How about dear Maggie sending backchannel messages to PIRA while standing in front of the cameras on the day after the bombing giving her version of Churchill' 'We will never surrender' speech?
Now there is real hypocrisy and cravenness. But then the Tories have a lot of form at that haven't they? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Hypothetically speaking, even if Sinn Fein took up their 7 seats, because the DUP are supporting the conservatives with their 10 seats, Corbyn still wouldn't have enough votes to defeat the government.
Number required for a Majority - 326.
Conservatives have 318. Add the DUP gives you 328."
so if they did it would only take a couple of By elections or illness then ?
I can see this happening . |
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"Do you know what they stand for. There is no chance on earth that Sinn Fein will take their seats. The British Parliament and their rule over Northern Ireland is abhorrent to them so they could not take their seats, irrelevant of the coalition mathematics."
Think you'll find their constitution says they'll not partake in any partitionist governments but they actually take part in two. Dáil Éireann & Stormont, when them and the rest of the clowns can be arsed turning up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So voted in members of parliament refuse to abide by the rules of the house?
Now imagine you did this at your place of work...You would be out the door, if they do not involve themselves , pledging there loyalty only to a foreign country. Why are they allowed to remain, Change the rules, if you do not pledge your loyalty to this UK, You are not able to stand for election.....
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So voted in members of parliament refuse to abide by the rules of the house?
Now imagine you did this at your place of work...You would be out the door, if they do not involve themselves , pledging there loyalty only to a foreign country. Why are they allowed to remain, Change the rules, if you do not pledge your loyalty to this UK, You are not able to stand for election.....
"
There is a party in the Netherlands that abstain from parliamentary votes. If that's their position them let them have the freedom to do it. People vote for it. Otherwise less votes less democracy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I've always voted Sinn Féin because they are socially progressive compared to the other mainstream political parties in Northern Ireland. It has never bothered me that they don't take their seats because they have strong constituency MPs. They also work at Westminster with other parties behind the scenes. I think they're very misunderstood in England and Wales and to a lesser extent in Scotland. I have no opinion on whether they takes their seats or not but I'm sure they have internal discussions constantly before parliamentary elections - between a rock and a hard place with the stubborn electorate here! Lol |
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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago
Limavady |
"To sit as an MP, you have to swear allegiance to The Crown, in this case, The Queen.
It's against everything that Sinn Fein believes in. They could never set foot in the Houses of parliament.
It didn't stop IRA members setting foot when Corbin invited them for tea and a cosy chat just after the Brighton Bimbings!
To be factually correct, the PIRA aren't Sinn Fein, and Sinn Fein aren't the PIRA.
The links between the two are many though."
Sinn Fein has described themselves as the political wing of the IRA. Nowadays they pretend that the IRA doesn't exist but a recent police report said it does. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Socially progressive ?......Really, Gerry Adams is still wiping the blood from his hands as he gets interviewed They have kneecapped and killed more Catholics than there so called opposition the UDA.....I would find voting for that kind of party repugnant. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To sit as an MP, you have to swear allegiance to The Crown, in this case, The Queen.
It's against everything that Sinn Fein believes in. They could never set foot in the Houses of parliament.
It didn't stop IRA members setting foot when Corbin invited them for tea and a cosy chat just after the Brighton Bimbings!
To be factually correct, the PIRA aren't Sinn Fein, and Sinn Fein aren't the PIRA.
The links between the two are many though.
Sinn Fein has described themselves as the political wing of the IRA. Nowadays they pretend that the IRA doesn't exist but a recent police report said it does."
The political wing of the IRA (stickies)
Not the PIRA (provisional IRA)
And even less to do with whatever the nutters who are allergic to peace and throw random letters in front of IRA nowadays.
I personally thing they used to all throw alphabeti spaghetti up the wall and see what stuck when naming a paramilitary splinter group over there.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Don't worry it's comimg up to marching season now, where they all out on thier pretty sashes and mince along behind their flags and banner provoking the other side.
most people gave that up when they left the boys briggade  |
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"I've always voted Sinn Féin because they are socially progressive compared to the other mainstream political parties in Northern Ireland. It has never bothered me that they don't take their seats because they have strong constituency MPs. They also work at Westminster with other parties behind the scenes. I think they're very misunderstood in England and Wales and to a lesser extent in Scotland. I have no opinion on whether they takes their seats or not but I'm sure they have internal discussions constantly before parliamentary elections - between a rock and a hard place with the stubborn electorate here! Lol"
I've often wondered how I'd vote if I was in Northern Ireland. I'm pretty sure, despite what you say above, I'd rule out Sinn Fein. I'd also rule out the DUP not just because of their stance om social issues but also, for me, I find the tenuous links to former terrorists almost as distasteful as Sinn Fein's strong links. The real problem in Northern Ireland is that, if your right of centre but nationalist there is no party that represents your view. Conversely if your left of centre but unionist thee is no party to represents your view. Taking all issues into consideration, if I was in Northern Ireland the only parties I would consider voting for would be the Alliance Party, the Conservative Party (the only UK main land party to actually organise in Northern Ireland) or, at a push and depending on the candidate, the Ulster Unionist Party. However there is also a pretty good chance given those choices I'd choose to abstain. |
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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago
Limavady |
"I've always voted Sinn Féin because they are socially progressive compared to the other mainstream political parties in Northern Ireland. It has never bothered me that they don't take their seats because they have strong constituency MPs. They also work at Westminster with other parties behind the scenes. I think they're very misunderstood in England and Wales and to a lesser extent in Scotland. I have no opinion on whether they takes their seats or not but I'm sure they have internal discussions constantly before parliamentary elections - between a rock and a hard place with the stubborn electorate here! Lol
I've often wondered how I'd vote if I was in Northern Ireland. I'm pretty sure, despite what you say above, I'd rule out Sinn Fein. I'd also rule out the DUP not just because of their stance om social issues but also, for me, I find the tenuous links to former terrorists almost as distasteful as Sinn Fein's strong links. The real problem in Northern Ireland is that, if your right of centre but nationalist there is no party that represents your view. Conversely if your left of centre but unionist thee is no party to represents your view. Taking all issues into consideration, if I was in Northern Ireland the only parties I would consider voting for would be the Alliance Party, the Conservative Party (the only UK main land party to actually organise in Northern Ireland) or, at a push and depending on the candidate, the Ulster Unionist Party. However there is also a pretty good chance given those choices I'd choose to abstain."
Just to add that the Tories are not the only "mainland" party in NI. There's also UKIP and the Green Party. |
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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago
Limavady |
"Isn't there some other unionist party?
Yeh there's 2 "
More than that!
Democratic Unionist party
Ulster unionist party
Progressive unionist party
Traditional unionist voice
Various independent unionists (1 is an MP and 1 is an MLA in Stormont) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Isn't there some other unionist party?
Yeh there's 2
More than that!
Democratic Unionist party
Ulster unionist party
Progressive unionist party
Traditional unionist voice
Various independent unionists (1 is an MP and 1 is an MLA in Stormont)"
Lemme rephrase there were two listed on the results on telly while Corbin destroyed labours chances by being extremist left wing terrorist supporting scum. Then when the news came through of a conservative / DUP government I nearly pissed myself with laughter. |
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"I've always voted Sinn Féin because they are socially progressive compared to the other mainstream political parties in Northern Ireland. It has never bothered me that they don't take their seats because they have strong constituency MPs. They also work at Westminster with other parties behind the scenes. I think they're very misunderstood in England and Wales and to a lesser extent in Scotland. I have no opinion on whether they takes their seats or not but I'm sure they have internal discussions constantly before parliamentary elections - between a rock and a hard place with the stubborn electorate here! Lol
I've often wondered how I'd vote if I was in Northern Ireland. I'm pretty sure, despite what you say above, I'd rule out Sinn Fein. I'd also rule out the DUP not just because of their stance om social issues but also, for me, I find the tenuous links to former terrorists almost as distasteful as Sinn Fein's strong links. The real problem in Northern Ireland is that, if your right of centre but nationalist there is no party that represents your view. Conversely if your left of centre but unionist thee is no party to represents your view. Taking all issues into consideration, if I was in Northern Ireland the only parties I would consider voting for would be the Alliance Party, the Conservative Party (the only UK main land party to actually organise in Northern Ireland) or, at a push and depending on the candidate, the Ulster Unionist Party. However there is also a pretty good chance given those choices I'd choose to abstain.
Just to add that the Tories are not the only "mainland" party in NI. There's also UKIP and the Green Party."
I didn't know that but then it's been to over 15 years since I really spent anything like this amount of time even thinking about Northern Ireland's politics.
I would never, ever vote UKIP and, being a right of centre Liberal, whilst I like some off the Green Parties environmental policies (but only some) I find what they call their progressive social policies a little too left and progressive for me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've always voted Sinn Féin because they are socially progressive compared to the other mainstream political parties in Northern Ireland. It has never bothered me that they don't take their seats because they have strong constituency MPs. They also work at Westminster with other parties behind the scenes. I think they're very misunderstood in England and Wales and to a lesser extent in Scotland. I have no opinion on whether they takes their seats or not but I'm sure they have internal discussions constantly before parliamentary elections - between a rock and a hard place with the stubborn electorate here! Lol
I've often wondered how I'd vote if I was in Northern Ireland. I'm pretty sure, despite what you say above, I'd rule out Sinn Fein. I'd also rule out the DUP not just because of their stance om social issues but also, for me, I find the tenuous links to former terrorists almost as distasteful as Sinn Fein's strong links. The real problem in Northern Ireland is that, if your right of centre but nationalist there is no party that represents your view. Conversely if your left of centre but unionist thee is no party to represents your view. Taking all issues into consideration, if I was in Northern Ireland the only parties I would consider voting for would be the Alliance Party, the Conservative Party (the only UK main land party to actually organise in Northern Ireland) or, at a push and depending on the candidate, the Ulster Unionist Party. However there is also a pretty good chance given those choices I'd choose to abstain.
Just to add that the Tories are not the only "mainland" party in NI. There's also UKIP and the Green Party.
I didn't know that but then it's been to over 15 years since I really spent anything like this amount of time even thinking about Northern Ireland's politics.
I would never, ever vote UKIP and, being a right of centre Liberal, whilst I like some off the Green Parties environmental policies (but only some) I find what they call their progressive social policies a little too left and progressive for me."
You dont like progressive policies? . I guess the opposite would be stagnant policies from the establishment keeping the status quo.Where would we be as a species without progressive politics.In the dark ages is my guess. |
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"Isn't there some other unionist party?
Yeh there's 2
More than that!
Democratic Unionist party
Ulster unionist party
Progressive unionist party
Traditional unionist voice
Various independent unionists (1 is an MP and 1 is an MLA in Stormont)"
There are two main Unionist Parties that really represent Unionism in Northern Ireland. They are the Democratic Unionist Party and the Ulster Unionist Party (the Ulster Unionists were actually effectively part of the Conservative and Unionist Party up until 1972).
Obviously the Conservative and Unionist Party is also a Unionist party as would the United Kingdon Independence Party be to. However neither of those two parties really represent Unionism in Northern Ireland.
Not sure where the Greens stand on Unionism in Northern Ireland but they're quite definitely Nationalist in Scotland, so that might be a clue.
Other minor Unionist parties exist but I'm not sure how relevant or representative they are of Northern Ireland Unionism. |
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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago
Limavady |
"Isn't there some other unionist party?
Yeh there's 2
More than that!
Democratic Unionist party
Ulster unionist party
Progressive unionist party
Traditional unionist voice
Various independent unionists (1 is an MP and 1 is an MLA in Stormont)
There are two main Unionist Parties that really represent Unionism in Northern Ireland. They are the Democratic Unionist Party and the Ulster Unionist Party (the Ulster Unionists were actually effectively part of the Conservative and Unionist Party up until 1972).
Obviously the Conservative and Unionist Party is also a Unionist party as would the United Kingdon Independence Party be to. However neither of those two parties really represent Unionism in Northern Ireland.
Not sure where the Greens stand on Unionism in Northern Ireland but they're quite definitely Nationalist in Scotland, so that might be a clue.
Other minor Unionist parties exist but I'm not sure how relevant or representative they are of Northern Ireland Unionism."
The progressive unionists (PUP) and the Traditional unionist voice (TUV) are important voices in Ulster unionism. Neither has an MP but both have significant council representatives. |
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"I've always voted Sinn Féin because they are socially progressive compared to the other mainstream political parties in Northern Ireland. It has never bothered me that they don't take their seats because they have strong constituency MPs. They also work at Westminster with other parties behind the scenes. I think they're very misunderstood in England and Wales and to a lesser extent in Scotland. I have no opinion on whether they takes their seats or not but I'm sure they have internal discussions constantly before parliamentary elections - between a rock and a hard place with the stubborn electorate here! Lol
I've often wondered how I'd vote if I was in Northern Ireland. I'm pretty sure, despite what you say above, I'd rule out Sinn Fein. I'd also rule out the DUP not just because of their stance om social issues but also, for me, I find the tenuous links to former terrorists almost as distasteful as Sinn Fein's strong links. The real problem in Northern Ireland is that, if your right of centre but nationalist there is no party that represents your view. Conversely if your left of centre but unionist thee is no party to represents your view. Taking all issues into consideration, if I was in Northern Ireland the only parties I would consider voting for would be the Alliance Party, the Conservative Party (the only UK main land party to actually organise in Northern Ireland) or, at a push and depending on the candidate, the Ulster Unionist Party. However there is also a pretty good chance given those choices I'd choose to abstain.
Just to add that the Tories are not the only "mainland" party in NI. There's also UKIP and the Green Party.
I didn't know that but then it's been to over 15 years since I really spent anything like this amount of time even thinking about Northern Ireland's politics.
I would never, ever vote UKIP and, being a right of centre Liberal, whilst I like some off the Green Parties environmental policies (but only some) I find what they call their progressive social policies a little too left and progressive for me. You dont like progressive policies? . I guess the opposite would be stagnant policies from the establishment keeping the status quo.Where would we be as a species without progressive politics.In the dark ages is my guess."
Progressive in politics does not mean the same thing as progressive in the vernacular. I also never said that I didn't like any progressive policies I said I found what they (the Green Party) call their progressive social policy a little too left and progressive for me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've always voted Sinn Féin because they are socially progressive compared to the other mainstream political parties in Northern Ireland. It has never bothered me that they don't take their seats because they have strong constituency MPs. They also work at Westminster with other parties behind the scenes. I think they're very misunderstood in England and Wales and to a lesser extent in Scotland. I have no opinion on whether they takes their seats or not but I'm sure they have internal discussions constantly before parliamentary elections - between a rock and a hard place with the stubborn electorate here! Lol
I've often wondered how I'd vote if I was in Northern Ireland. I'm pretty sure, despite what you say above, I'd rule out Sinn Fein. I'd also rule out the DUP not just because of their stance om social issues but also, for me, I find the tenuous links to former terrorists almost as distasteful as Sinn Fein's strong links. The real problem in Northern Ireland is that, if your right of centre but nationalist there is no party that represents your view. Conversely if your left of centre but unionist thee is no party to represents your view. Taking all issues into consideration, if I was in Northern Ireland the only parties I would consider voting for would be the Alliance Party, the Conservative Party (the only UK main land party to actually organise in Northern Ireland) or, at a push and depending on the candidate, the Ulster Unionist Party. However there is also a pretty good chance given those choices I'd choose to abstain.
Just to add that the Tories are not the only "mainland" party in NI. There's also UKIP and the Green Party.
I didn't know that but then it's been to over 15 years since I really spent anything like this amount of time even thinking about Northern Ireland's politics.
I would never, ever vote UKIP and, being a right of centre Liberal, whilst I like some off the Green Parties environmental policies (but only some) I find what they call their progressive social policies a little too left and progressive for me. You dont like progressive policies? . I guess the opposite would be stagnant policies from the establishment keeping the status quo.Where would we be as a species without progressive politics.In the dark ages is my guess.
Progressive in politics does not mean the same thing as progressive in the vernacular. I also never said that I didn't like any progressive policies I said I found what they (the Green Party) call their progressive social policy a little too left and progressive for me."
Progressive politics moves us forward.I cant see whats not not to like.Upwards and onwards.The philosopher Hegel promoted the idea of history as progress out of ignorance and division towards peace and prosperity.
I know the right see it as lefty snowflake ideology but it isn't. Progressives tend to see themselves as people who believe in reform, in changing society for the better, as opposed to conservatives, who want to keep things the same or even turn the clock back. |
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"I've always voted Sinn Féin because they are socially progressive compared to the other mainstream political parties in Northern Ireland. It has never bothered me that they don't take their seats because they have strong constituency MPs. They also work at Westminster with other parties behind the scenes. I think they're very misunderstood in England and Wales and to a lesser extent in Scotland. I have no opinion on whether they takes their seats or not but I'm sure they have internal discussions constantly before parliamentary elections - between a rock and a hard place with the stubborn electorate here! Lol
I've often wondered how I'd vote if I was in Northern Ireland. I'm pretty sure, despite what you say above, I'd rule out Sinn Fein. I'd also rule out the DUP not just because of their stance om social issues but also, for me, I find the tenuous links to former terrorists almost as distasteful as Sinn Fein's strong links. The real problem in Northern Ireland is that, if your right of centre but nationalist there is no party that represents your view. Conversely if your left of centre but unionist thee is no party to represents your view. Taking all issues into consideration, if I was in Northern Ireland the only parties I would consider voting for would be the Alliance Party, the Conservative Party (the only UK main land party to actually organise in Northern Ireland) or, at a push and depending on the candidate, the Ulster Unionist Party. However there is also a pretty good chance given those choices I'd choose to abstain.
Just to add that the Tories are not the only "mainland" party in NI. There's also UKIP and the Green Party.
I didn't know that but then it's been to over 15 years since I really spent anything like this amount of time even thinking about Northern Ireland's politics.
I would never, ever vote UKIP and, being a right of centre Liberal, whilst I like some off the Green Parties environmental policies (but only some) I find what they call their progressive social policies a little too left and progressive for me. You dont like progressive policies? . I guess the opposite would be stagnant policies from the establishment keeping the status quo.Where would we be as a species without progressive politics.In the dark ages is my guess.
Progressive in politics does not mean the same thing as progressive in the vernacular. I also never said that I didn't like any progressive policies I said I found what they (the Green Party) call their progressive social policy a little too left and progressive for me. Progressive politics moves us forward.I cant see whats not not to like.Upwards and onwards.The philosopher Hegel promoted the idea of history as progress out of ignorance and division towards peace and prosperity.
I know the right see it as lefty snowflake ideology but it isn't. Progressives tend to see themselves as people who believe in reform, in changing society for the better, as opposed to conservatives, who want to keep things the same or even turn the clock back."
Apart from the 'lefty snowflake' bit I don't think I actually disagree with any of what you just said. However I still find the Green Party's so called Progressive social policies a bit to left and progressive for me. |
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