FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Thanks, Brits – Brexit has vaccinated Europe against populism
Thanks, Brits – Brexit has vaccinated Europe against populism
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By *oi_Lucy OP Couple
over a year ago
Barbados |
An interesting take on things. I know a lot of leavers have been saying things like 'we are the first, but everyone else will leave the EU after us'.
Seems that contrary to that, the complete clusterfuck of Brexit might have actually 'vaccinated' some of the other countries from the madness of going down the same route:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/15/britain-brexit-europe-populism-eu
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"An interesting take on things. I know a lot of leavers have been saying things like 'we are the first, but everyone else will leave the EU after us'.
Seems that contrary to that, the complete clusterfuck of Brexit might have actually 'vaccinated' some of the other countries from the madness of going down the same route:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/15/britain-brexit-europe-populism-eu
-Matt"
Laughable stuff considering brexit negotiations haven't started yet. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_Lucy OP Couple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"An interesting take on things. I know a lot of leavers have been saying things like 'we are the first, but everyone else will leave the EU after us'.
Seems that contrary to that, the complete clusterfuck of Brexit might have actually 'vaccinated' some of the other countries from the madness of going down the same route:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/15/britain-brexit-europe-populism-eu
-Matt
Laughable stuff considering brexit negotiations haven't started yet. "
Indeed. I think the 'vaccination' metaphor is quite accurate. You don't need to go through the full pain of Brexit, the clusterfuck it is so far is enough to immunise you.
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"An interesting take on things. I know a lot of leavers have been saying things like 'we are the first, but everyone else will leave the EU after us'.
Seems that contrary to that, the complete clusterfuck of Brexit might have actually 'vaccinated' some of the other countries from the madness of going down the same route:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/15/britain-brexit-europe-populism-eu
-Matt
Laughable stuff considering brexit negotiations haven't started yet.
Indeed. I think the 'vaccination' metaphor is quite accurate. You don't need to go through the full pain of Brexit, the clusterfuck it is so far is enough to immunise you.
-Matt"
  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
There will no doubt be a lot of media opinion to pressure the Government for an outcome it wants, but it's interesting Populism is getting a highlight.
Initially brought on pre referendum by Ukip promoting ideas of anti-immigration, health tourism, towns being lost, pressure on public services, lost jobs to foreign workers... I'm not sure if EU legislation feature that heavily, I think it may have been more of unelected officials rather than legislation it turned into later.
The only populism I see otherwise is with Labour as Cons couldn't galvanise the public no matter what they did.
Labour - appealing to young and old in free education and triple lock pensions. Appealing to workers by protecting rights. Unions by mass nationalisation and pensions that come with. Honouring Brexit so appealing to leave supporters and appeasing Remain voters by saying they want to stay in single market or not walk away from a deal.
Much as I am glad Le Pen didn't get in, I can't say I'm happy at Hollande seeking to become an MEP, as he'll make it especially difficult for us as too any other country I expect. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
Intelligent people (of which there a majority in Continental Europe) reject populism because they are smart enough to understand that there are no simple solutions to difficult issues.
The UK has reacted to populism because the country has by and large dumbed down in the last couple of decades. People don't want or feel they have not got the time to contemplate multi dimensional issues and react positively to seemingly simple solutions.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Populism , like the plague spreads its tentacles infesting all , whipping up our base instincts. Offering us what are simplistic solutions to complex multi dimensional problems like the Eu referendum, the Scottish version...It leads us to take up positions that are polar opposites ......
Leading to the divisions that split friends , communities and even families.
It is mostly the preserve of the radicals of all types, Communists, Nationalists, and those who are in it mainly for there own massive egos.. Yes you Boris..... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Populism , like the plague spreads its tentacles infesting all , whipping up our base instincts. Offering us what are simplistic solutions to complex multi dimensional problems like the Eu referendum, the Scottish version...It leads us to take up positions that are polar opposites ......
Leading to the divisions that split friends , communities and even families.
It is mostly the preserve of the radicals of all types, Communists, Nationalists, and those who are in it mainly for there own massive egos.. Yes you Boris..... "
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Populism , like the plague spreads its tentacles infesting all , whipping up our base instincts. Offering us what are simplistic solutions to complex multi dimensional problems like the Eu referendum, the Scottish version...It leads us to take up positions that are polar opposites ......
Leading to the divisions that split friends , communities and even families.
It is mostly the preserve of the radicals of all types, Communists, Nationalists, and those who are in it mainly for there own massive egos.. Yes you Boris..... "
All political parties are born from populism. There is nothing wrong with it. The only people who decry what is popular are the losers |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"An interesting take on things. I know a lot of leavers have been saying things like 'we are the first, but everyone else will leave the EU after us'.
Seems that contrary to that, the complete clusterfuck of Brexit might have actually 'vaccinated' some of the other countries from the madness of going down the same route:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/15/britain-brexit-europe-populism-eu
-Matt
Laughable stuff considering brexit negotiations haven't started yet.
Indeed. I think the 'vaccination' metaphor is quite accurate. You don't need to go through the full pain of Brexit, the clusterfuck it is so far is enough to immunise you.
-Matt"
The EU head shed's must be wetting themselves..
They only have to point to how we have thus far been a complete shambles..
Job done.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Intelligent people (of which there a majority in Continental Europe) reject populism because they are smart enough to understand that there are no simple solutions to difficult issues.
The UK has reacted to populism because the country has by and large dumbed down in the last couple of decades. People don't want or feel they have not got the time to contemplate multi dimensional issues and react positively to seemingly simple solutions.
"
This and for some donning the blanket of xenophobia and blaming others for their own bad decisions and failures to better their lot themselves is a lot easier..
History repeating itself.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"An interesting take on things. I know a lot of leavers have been saying things like 'we are the first, but everyone else will leave the EU after us'.
Seems that contrary to that, the complete clusterfuck of Brexit might have actually 'vaccinated' some of the other countries from the madness of going down the same route:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/15/britain-brexit-europe-populism-eu
-Matt
Laughable stuff considering brexit negotiations haven't started yet. "
If they ever get off the ground in the first place, nothing is ready still!! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
This and for some donning the blanket of xenophobia and blaming others for their own bad decisions and failures to better their lot themselves is a lot easier..
History repeating itself.."
A reliable pattern throughout history alright |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uxinteriorMan
over a year ago
south west , continental |
Emmanuel Macron and his newly formed party are popularist. His branding of politics is packaged differently to what has been before. He won over the French press very easy and appealed to a lot of people that wanted something a little different. Time will tell if this French popularist can turn around France and the Eu as promised in his manifesto. He gave France a sign and he now is the Nouveau Bonaparte! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Laughable stuff considering brexit negotiations haven't started yet. "
Really?
You think it is laughable that we are nearly 4 months into the 18 month negotiation timetable and negotiations haven't started yet...
Or maybe you think when the EU said negotiations needed to be concluded within 18 months so that the EU would have time to debate the deal in the EUP, Council of Ministers and Commision they were not serious. I think they were very serious, just like they have been very serious about everything else they have said. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Laughable stuff considering brexit negotiations haven't started yet.
Really?
You think it is laughable that we are nearly 4 months into the 18 month negotiation timetable and negotiations haven't started yet...
Or maybe you think when the EU said negotiations needed to be concluded within 18 months so that the EU would have time to debate the deal in the EUP, Council of Ministers and Commision they were not serious. I think they were very serious, just like they have been very serious about everything else they have said."
Look at the time stamps on the comments  it was 5 weeks ago when I made the comment you quoted. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Laughable stuff considering brexit negotiations haven't started yet.
Really?
You think it is laughable that we are nearly 4 months into the 18 month negotiation timetable and negotiations haven't started yet...
Or maybe you think when the EU said negotiations needed to be concluded within 18 months so that the EU would have time to debate the deal in the EUP, Council of Ministers and Commision they were not serious. I think they were very serious, just like they have been very serious about everything else they have said.
Look at the time stamps on the comments it was 5 weeks ago when I made the comment you quoted. "
So is this the week the mighty David Davis brings the EU negotiating team to its knees as they give in to all his demands? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Look at the time stamps on the comments it was 5 weeks ago when I made the comment you quoted.
Has anything other than Boris telling the EU to whistle changed in the last 5 weeks?"
Negotiations have started now. They hadn't started and David Davis hadn't met Michel Barnier when I made the original comment. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Negotiations have started now. They hadn't started and David Davis hadn't met Michel Barnier when I made the original comment. "
So when Michel Barnier said he had not heard any whistling and the UK needs to tell the EU what it realistically wants and preferably by tomorrow (Monday) he was lying? Or could it be that our government and negotiators still haven't got a clue what their negotiating position is? Or even what they want and are willing to give to get the result they want? Maybe you can tell us all what the UK priorities are as far as our government are concerned. I've heard a lot about taking back control but still don't really know what that means. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
The thing is whatever we end up with will be largely influenced by the other major European countries being shit scared of their own voters following suit. So we will get a rough ride no matter what as we are the first, we may also be the last for sometime if they stitch us up badly enough or our exit is so watered down we may as well have stayed in.
I no longer think it's us leaving that the French & German politico's (lets be honest, the wallet holders & bullies of the EU) are worried about, it's us leaving & being successful that has them now shit scared so they will do their utmost to ensure we are stitched.
It's our guys jobs to stand firm and tell them to fuck off & even though i'm a leaver i'm not holding my breath that they can or want to do it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The thing is whatever we end up with will be largely influenced by the other major European countries being shit scared of their own voters following suit. So we will get a rough ride no matter what as we are the first, we may also be the last for sometime if they stitch us up badly enough or our exit is so watered down we may as well have stayed in.
I no longer think it's us leaving that the French & German politico's (lets be honest, the wallet holders & bullies of the EU) are worried about, it's us leaving & being successful that has them now shit scared so they will do their utmost to ensure we are stitched.
It's our guys jobs to stand firm and tell them to fuck off & even though i'm a leaver i'm not holding my breath that they can or want to do it. "
Theres absolutely no one on the EU side thats worried about Britain making a success of Brexit at the moment. Brexodus has started and we're competing for that. And the German government (and probably most others) thinks the Tories are unprepared and that their approach to Brexit has been farcical.
Brexits been a joke so far and the punchline are the Tories negotiating strategy.
Its been over a year since the referendum and theres only 13 and a half months left to negotiate Brexit and whats been accomplished so far?
Companies and jobs have left, the UK economy has nosedived, the status of vital services like cancer treatment and international flights are still up in the air, citizen rights havent been decided and the standing of the UK has dropped due to the sheer incompetence of your government.
Youve a weaker economy than last year.
A weaker government.
A weaker negotiating position with other countries and the EU.
A weaker prime minister.
Has there been any positives directly from Brexit yet? Nope.
Theres no such thing as a successful Brexit, just varying degrees of bad. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Negotiations have started now. They hadn't started and David Davis hadn't met Michel Barnier when I made the original comment.
So when Michel Barnier said he had not heard any whistling and the UK needs to tell the EU what it realistically wants and preferably by tomorrow (Monday) he was lying? Or could it be that our government and negotiators still haven't got a clue what their negotiating position is? Or even what they want and are willing to give to get the result they want? Maybe you can tell us all what the UK priorities are as far as our government are concerned. I've heard a lot about taking back control but still don't really know what that means. "
The Chancellor Philip Hammond who was a prominent remainer said today on the bbc Andrew Marr show that Boris Johnson's comments in the week we're referring to the EU's ridiculous figure of 100 billion brexit bill. Philip Hammond said that a figure of 100 billion which the EU has plucked out of thin air will not be paid by the UK. So yes the EU can go whistle for a 100 billion figure when you've got remainers like Philip Hammond saying that you can take it as gospel. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The thing is whatever we end up with will be largely influenced by the other major European countries being shit scared of their own voters following suit. So we will get a rough ride no matter what as we are the first, we may also be the last for sometime if they stitch us up badly enough or our exit is so watered down we may as well have stayed in.
I no longer think it's us leaving that the French & German politico's (lets be honest, the wallet holders & bullies of the EU) are worried about, it's us leaving & being successful that has them now shit scared so they will do their utmost to ensure we are stitched.
It's our guys jobs to stand firm and tell them to fuck off & even though i'm a leaver i'm not holding my breath that they can or want to do it.
Theres absolutely no one on the EU side thats worried about Britain making a success of Brexit at the moment. Brexodus has started and we're competing for that. And the German government (and probably most others) thinks the Tories are unprepared and that their approach to Brexit has been farcical.
Brexits been a joke so far and the punchline are the Tories negotiating strategy.
Its been over a year since the referendum and theres only 13 and a half months left to negotiate Brexit and whats been accomplished so far?
Companies and jobs have left, the UK economy has nosedived, the status of vital services like cancer treatment and international flights are still up in the air, citizen rights havent been decided and the standing of the UK has dropped due to the sheer incompetence of your government.
Youve a weaker economy than last year.
A weaker government.
A weaker negotiating position with other countries and the EU.
A weaker prime minister.
Has there been any positives directly from Brexit yet? Nope.
Theres no such thing as a successful Brexit, just varying degrees of bad."
The official negotiations between Davis and Barnier only started 5 weeks ago. Frankly you are living in cloud cookoo land if you think everything would be sorted out in 5 weeks. This is an ongoing 2 year negotiation process and the success of Brexit will come for us in the long term. From your posts on here though it's becoming increasingly clear you have no clue about what the concept of long term really means. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
The official negotiations between Davis and Barnier only started 5 weeks ago. Frankly you are living in cloud cookoo land if you think everything would be sorted out in 5 weeks. This is an ongoing 2 year negotiation process and the success of Brexit will come for us in the long term. From your posts on here though it's becoming increasingly clear you have no clue about what the concept of long term really means."
Youve 13 and a half months left to negotiate. Everything needs to be resolved by October 2018.
And the EU figure has been well prepared and analysed like everything else theyve done in these negotiations. And if you knew anything about the situation you would know that the EU hasnt put a figure on it yet.
The settlement will be 50bn+ once the rebate and subsidies are taken off, not to mention that part of the figure will be refundable as its cover for loans. 50bn is a lot more than the nothing you were claiming would be paid a few months ago. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The Chancellor Philip Hammond who was a prominent remainer said today on the bbc Andrew Marr show that Boris Johnson's comments in the week we're referring to the EU's ridiculous figure of 100 billion brexit bill. Philip Hammond said that a figure of 100 billion which the EU has plucked out of thin air will not be paid by the UK. So yes the EU can go whistle for a 100 billion figure when you've got remainers like Philip Hammond saying that you can take it as gospel. "
I have no doubt your right there. But now I have asked you before and you ignored me how about you answering this now...
How do you think that will work out for us? Do you think that the EU will just bend over and let us shaft them or do you think that maybe they will retaliate in kind? Now considering that pharmaceutical and financial services are exempt from WTO rules do you think that maybe the UK will be banned from trading into the EU in those two sectors? If that happens do you think that the financial institutions will say fuck the largest market in the world we are staying in London or do you think they will be gone overnight? And how long do you think GSK, Nuffield, Astrazeneca and the rest of our pharmaceutical industry will take to transfer production (and development) out of the UK?
Further considering we are not a member of the WTO (the EU is) do you think we may just find that all our exports to the EU are hit with such high EU import duties that our EU export market collapses?
Remember things will not happen in bubbles all EU/Brexit issues are interconnected, and the rules of action reaction kick in when wwe refuse to honor our treaty obligations. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Its taken many years to sort out trade deals with eu/canada/japan/Ukraine, think 2 of those where 8-9 years, so the torys no plan, stalling etc are quite bad, given a 2 year deadline.
U could bluster about "oh we are British and much better" but are we 4x better than Canada? And the other guys are same guys...
And eu can say you commited to leave with no idea of deal u will get so *shrug* if u don't like it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
100 Billion was never going to be a realistic figure, but putting it out there and directing mass hysteria and rage at it means that the once equally unpalatable 50 billion will now seem like a good deal. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The Chancellor Philip Hammond who was a prominent remainer said today on the bbc Andrew Marr show that Boris Johnson's comments in the week we're referring to the EU's ridiculous figure of 100 billion brexit bill. Philip Hammond said that a figure of 100 billion which the EU has plucked out of thin air will not be paid by the UK. So yes the EU can go whistle for a 100 billion figure when you've got remainers like Philip Hammond saying that you can take it as gospel. "
You we're insistant the UK wouldn't be paying any form of "Brexit fee" at all in any way, shape or fashon, do you still stand by that Centaur ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"An interesting take on things. I know a lot of leavers have been saying things like 'we are the first, but everyone else will leave the EU after us'.
Seems that contrary to that, the complete clusterfuck of Brexit might have actually 'vaccinated' some of the other countries from the madness of going down the same route:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/15/britain-brexit-europe-populism-eu
-Matt"
So what do you say not the Guardian? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_Lucy OP Couple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"An interesting take on things. I know a lot of leavers have been saying things like 'we are the first, but everyone else will leave the EU after us'.
Seems that contrary to that, the complete clusterfuck of Brexit might have actually 'vaccinated' some of the other countries from the madness of going down the same route:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/15/britain-brexit-europe-populism-eu
-MattSo what do you say not the Guardian?"
I think you missed some words from your sentence. I've no idea what you are asking.
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
