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Metro news poll for 2nd EU Referendum
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink  |
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"Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink "
Nonsense. The country voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last night. Tories and the DUP both in favour of Brexit and the 2nd largest party Labour got the support they did on a Brexit ticket. Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink
Nonsense. The country voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last night. Tories and the DUP both in favour of Brexit and the 2nd largest party Labour got the support they did on a Brexit ticket. Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit. "
Farage says we are staring down the barrel of 2nd referendum ..Its on the cards.. I think i might pop down the bookies
. |
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"Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink
Nonsense. The country voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last night. Tories and the DUP both in favour of Brexit and the 2nd largest party Labour got the support they did on a Brexit ticket. Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit. Farage says we are staring down the barrel of 2nd referendum ..Its on the cards.. I think i might pop down the bookies
."
I like Farage but he is wrong on this. I suspect he is just trying to drum up some support for Ukip. The fact is Tories came first and they are a Brexit party, Labour came 2nd and they are a Brexit party.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink
Nonsense. The country voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last night. Tories and the DUP both in favour of Brexit and the 2nd largest party Labour got the support they did on a Brexit ticket. Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit. Farage says we are staring down the barrel of 2nd referendum ..Its on the cards.. I think i might pop down the bookies
.
I like Farage but he is wrong on this. I suspect he is just trying to drum up some support for Ukip. The fact is Tories came first and they are a Brexit party, Labour came 2nd and they are a Brexit party. "
Yes very true but I think especially after seeing a corbyn interview the other day where he would not categorically state he would scrap Freedom of movement through brexit I think he and May have different ideas on brexit.
Now also the largest party in Northern Ireland is propping up the Tories lets not forget NI voted remain so I think the hard brexit is off the table now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink
Nonsense. The country voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last night. Tories and the DUP both in favour of Brexit and the 2nd largest party Labour got the support they did on a Brexit ticket. Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit. Farage says we are staring down the barrel of 2nd referendum ..Its on the cards.. I think i might pop down the bookies
.
I like Farage but he is wrong on this. I suspect he is just trying to drum up some support for Ukip. The fact is Tories came first and they are a Brexit party, Labour came 2nd and they are a Brexit party. "
I think farage knows his party gets more votes if brexit gets watered down by staying in the common market and keeping free movement and another election will likley now happen before we leave EU.He might still become an MP.Come to think of it that's a good bet..  |
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"Although I massively oppose Brexit what is the point of a democracy if we are going to re vote on everything that doesn't go the way we wanted??"
normally i would agree on this but Brexit was for many of those who voted for it several different things..
even now what it is or was before yesterday is different today..
had it been laid out in a format that people could clearly see what was proposed apart from simply 'leave' then i think that would have been preferable, less open to question and held more credibility than what it simply was..
no one buys a car without test driving it, brexit as it has been done was the equivalent of ok here's the money can i have the key to see if it works..
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Although I massively oppose Brexit what is the point of a democracy if we are going to re vote on everything that doesn't go the way we wanted??"
Yes. but many feel that the referendum process and question was too flawed to be called a democratic decision.
Let me illustrate it this way:
Imagine that Remain had won with a majority of a few percent. Then on the basis of this we decided to join the Euro and join Schengen without any debate because it was "The will of the people".
Absurd right? Well that is how many people feel about coming out of the single market and customs union.
-Matt |
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"Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink
Nonsense. The country voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last night. Tories and the DUP both in favour of Brexit and the 2nd largest party Labour got the support they did on a Brexit ticket. Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit. Farage says we are staring down the barrel of 2nd referendum ..Its on the cards.. I think i might pop down the bookies
.
I like Farage but he is wrong on this. I suspect he is just trying to drum up some support for Ukip. The fact is Tories came first and they are a Brexit party, Labour came 2nd and they are a Brexit party.
Yes very true but I think especially after seeing a corbyn interview the other day where he would not categorically state he would scrap Freedom of movement through brexit I think he and May have different ideas on brexit.
Now also the largest party in Northern Ireland is propping up the Tories lets not forget NI voted remain so I think the hard brexit is off the table now."
DUP are a hard Brexit party. On every televised debate during general election campaign Corbyn said in no uncertain terms "we are leaving the EU, free movement must end". If he wants to keep free movement now then he has lied and mislead the electorate. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
Thee is now bound to be a call for a second EU referendum. There were a lot of staunch pro-remain Conservatives who didn't vote for the Conservatives. It would appear that the silent Remainers are waking up and smell blood.
Its quite clear that an ultra hard Brexit is going to be impossible now.
Is there now a growing appetite to stop and have a political "reboot" ? |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink
Nonsense. The country voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last night. Tories and the DUP both in favour of Brexit and the 2nd largest party Labour got the support they did on a Brexit ticket. Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit. Farage says we are staring down the barrel of 2nd referendum ..Its on the cards.. I think i might pop down the bookies
.
I like Farage but he is wrong on this. I suspect he is just trying to drum up some support for Ukip. The fact is Tories came first and they are a Brexit party, Labour came 2nd and they are a Brexit party.
Yes very true but I think especially after seeing a corbyn interview the other day where he would not categorically state he would scrap Freedom of movement through brexit I think he and May have different ideas on brexit.
Now also the largest party in Northern Ireland is propping up the Tories lets not forget NI voted remain so I think the hard brexit is off the table now.
DUP are a hard Brexit party. On every televised debate during general election campaign Corbyn said in no uncertain terms "we are leaving the EU, free movement must end". If he wants to keep free movement now then he has lied and mislead the electorate. "
Clearly it wasn't 'uncertain' as you seem to have said the opposite to what he said.
He stated that "When we leave the EU, freedom of movement will end". That is a fact. That is not an opinion. When we leave the EU, then freedom of movement will end. Not must end. Will end. Whether that is what he wants or doesn't want is completely irrelevant to what he stated.
-Matt |
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"Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink
Nonsense. The country voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last night. Tories and the DUP both in favour of Brexit and the 2nd largest party Labour got the support they did on a Brexit ticket. Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit. Farage says we are staring down the barrel of 2nd referendum ..Its on the cards.. I think i might pop down the bookies
.
I like Farage but he is wrong on this. I suspect he is just trying to drum up some support for Ukip. The fact is Tories came first and they are a Brexit party, Labour came 2nd and they are a Brexit party.
Yes very true but I think especially after seeing a corbyn interview the other day where he would not categorically state he would scrap Freedom of movement through brexit I think he and May have different ideas on brexit.
Now also the largest party in Northern Ireland is propping up the Tories lets not forget NI voted remain so I think the hard brexit is off the table now.
DUP are a hard Brexit party. On every televised debate during general election campaign Corbyn said in no uncertain terms "we are leaving the EU, free movement must end". If he wants to keep free movement now then he has lied and mislead the electorate. "
You wannabe Trojan horse JC never said that in a certain nor uncertain way. When it comes to DUP: Apart from being hard Brexit it is also homophobic, anti abortion and pro Putin. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
DUP are a hard Brexit party.
"
Interesting.
"But DUP leader Arlene Foster has said: “No-one wants to see a ‘hard’ Brexit. "
Express website https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/814955/DUP-Brexit-what-is-position-EU-exit-Hung-Parliament-UK-election-Democratic-Unionist-Party/amp
" On every televised debate during general election campaign Corbyn said in no uncertain terms "we are leaving the EU, free movement must end". If he wants to keep free movement now then he has lied and mislead the electorate. "
Ohh imagine that, a politician lying and misleading the electorate... can't see that ever happening  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
Corbyn on freedom of movement this week
"
LONDON — Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said Tuesday he is not “wedded” to free movement of people from the EU after Brexit, but did not rule out that it might continue either.
Rowing back from a previous briefing to journalists that appeared to indicate he would be willing to see free movement end, the Labour leader added in a speech Tuesday that nothing had been ruled out.
“We are not wedded to freedom of movement for EU citizens as a point of principle, but I don’t want to be misinterpreted, nor do we rule it out,” Corbyn said.
"
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.politico.eu/article/jeremy-corbyn-backtracks-on-freedom-of-movement-brexit/amp/
|
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"Corbyn on freedom of movement this week
LONDON — Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said Tuesday he is not “wedded” to free movement of people from the EU after Brexit, but did not rule out that it might continue either.
Rowing back from a previous briefing to journalists that appeared to indicate he would be willing to see free movement end, the Labour leader added in a speech Tuesday that nothing had been ruled out.
“We are not wedded to freedom of movement for EU citizens as a point of principle, but I don’t want to be misinterpreted, nor do we rule it out,” Corbyn said.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.politico.eu/article/jeremy-corbyn-backtracks-on-freedom-of-movement-brexit/amp/
"
More fool the UKippers who voted for Corbyn and Labour then. |
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"Cool thats the supply of young nubile Europeans securred for the capital. Was so worried about that! Could you imagine the capital without them and Carabean babes? Desaster!"
Only it won't be though. Teresa May has officially formed a minority government with support of the DUP. 5 cabinet posts have already been made,
Amber Rudd -Home secretary
Boris Johnson - Foreign secretary
Philip Hammond - chancellor
Fallon - Defence secretary
David Davis - Brexit secretary.
Labour are looking at another 5 years in opposition. |
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"Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink
Nonsense. The country voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last night. Tories and the DUP both in favour of Brexit and the 2nd largest party Labour got the support they did on a Brexit ticket. Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit. Farage says we are staring down the barrel of 2nd referendum ..Its on the cards.. I think i might pop down the bookies
.
I like Farage but he is wrong on this. I suspect he is just trying to drum up some support for Ukip. The fact is Tories came first and they are a Brexit party, Labour came 2nd and they are a Brexit party.
Yes very true but I think especially after seeing a corbyn interview the other day where he would not categorically state he would scrap Freedom of movement through brexit I think he and May have different ideas on brexit.
Now also the largest party in Northern Ireland is propping up the Tories lets not forget NI voted remain so I think the hard brexit is off the table now.
DUP are a hard Brexit party. On every televised debate during general election campaign Corbyn said in no uncertain terms "we are leaving the EU, free movement must end". If he wants to keep free movement now then he has lied and mislead the electorate.
Clearly it wasn't 'uncertain' as you seem to have said the opposite to what he said.
He stated that "When we leave the EU, freedom of movement will end". That is a fact. That is not an opinion. When we leave the EU, then freedom of movement will end. Not must end. Will end. Whether that is what he wants or doesn't want is completely irrelevant to what he stated.
-Matt"
Ok if free movement of people 'will end' that means Corbyn's position is to leave the single market. You can't stay in the single market and end free movement. The EU have made it crystal clear if you stay in the single market you accept free movement. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Although I massively oppose Brexit what is the point of a democracy if we are going to re vote on everything that doesn't go the way we wanted??"
We did it in Ireland with the Lisbon treaty. You'll get the hang of appeasing your leaders eventually  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Let's not forget that the Liberal Democrats were the only party offering a further EU referendum.
Surely if that's what the country really wanted, they would have won far more seats than they did |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink
Nonsense. The country voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last night. Tories and the DUP both in favour of Brexit and the 2nd largest party Labour got the support they did on a Brexit ticket. Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit. Farage says we are staring down the barrel of 2nd referendum ..Its on the cards.. I think i might pop down the bookies
.
I like Farage but he is wrong on this. I suspect he is just trying to drum up some support for Ukip. The fact is Tories came first and they are a Brexit party, Labour came 2nd and they are a Brexit party.
Yes very true but I think especially after seeing a corbyn interview the other day where he would not categorically state he would scrap Freedom of movement through brexit I think he and May have different ideas on brexit.
Now also the largest party in Northern Ireland is propping up the Tories lets not forget NI voted remain so I think the hard brexit is off the table now.
DUP are a hard Brexit party. On every televised debate during general election campaign Corbyn said in no uncertain terms "we are leaving the EU, free movement must end". If he wants to keep free movement now then he has lied and mislead the electorate.
Clearly it wasn't 'uncertain' as you seem to have said the opposite to what he said.
He stated that "When we leave the EU, freedom of movement will end". That is a fact. That is not an opinion. When we leave the EU, then freedom of movement will end. Not must end. Will end. Whether that is what he wants or doesn't want is completely irrelevant to what he stated.
-Matt
Ok if free movement of people 'will end' that means Corbyn's position is to leave the single market. You can't stay in the single market and end free movement. The EU have made it crystal clear if you stay in the single market you accept free movement. "
You are almost getting it now. But you still don't quite understand. When we leave the EU we will leave the single market. Again, this is not Corbyn's policy, this is just a fact. Whether he wants to or not is irrelevant.
As you know, several Leave campaigners tried to gloss over this and convince voters that we'd remain in the single market when we left the EU. Some smart voters like yourself saw through the lies. Some did not.
What would be great would be if we could negotiate some alternative arrangement with the EU for once we are out. Something like the Norway or Swiss model. But, yes, that would involve freedom of movement if it involved free movement of good. And paying some kind of fee.
Corbyn has said he wants to go for 'controlled immigration'. The specifics of which would need to be negotiated. We would then also need to negotiate on r trade deals with the EU and all the other services we will now have to replicate the buerocracy of.
Now please try and explain this to your Brexit buddies that thought otherwise. Some of them are still having trouble getting it.
-Matt |
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"Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink
Nonsense. The country voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last night. Tories and the DUP both in favour of Brexit and the 2nd largest party Labour got the support they did on a Brexit ticket. Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit. Farage says we are staring down the barrel of 2nd referendum ..Its on the cards.. I think i might pop down the bookies
.
I like Farage but he is wrong on this. I suspect he is just trying to drum up some support for Ukip. The fact is Tories came first and they are a Brexit party, Labour came 2nd and they are a Brexit party.
Yes very true but I think especially after seeing a corbyn interview the other day where he would not categorically state he would scrap Freedom of movement through brexit I think he and May have different ideas on brexit.
Now also the largest party in Northern Ireland is propping up the Tories lets not forget NI voted remain so I think the hard brexit is off the table now.
DUP are a hard Brexit party. On every televised debate during general election campaign Corbyn said in no uncertain terms "we are leaving the EU, free movement must end". If he wants to keep free movement now then he has lied and mislead the electorate.
Clearly it wasn't 'uncertain' as you seem to have said the opposite to what he said.
He stated that "When we leave the EU, freedom of movement will end". That is a fact. That is not an opinion. When we leave the EU, then freedom of movement will end. Not must end. Will end. Whether that is what he wants or doesn't want is completely irrelevant to what he stated.
-Matt
Ok if free movement of people 'will end' that means Corbyn's position is to leave the single market. You can't stay in the single market and end free movement. The EU have made it crystal clear if you stay in the single market you accept free movement.
You are almost getting it now. But you still don't quite understand. When we leave the EU we will leave the single market. Again, this is not Corbyn's policy, this is just a fact. Whether he wants to or not is irrelevant.
As you know, several Leave campaigners tried to gloss over this and convince voters that we'd remain in the single market when we left the EU. Some smart voters like yourself saw through the lies. Some did not.
What would be great would be if we could negotiate some alternative arrangement with the EU for once we are out. Something like the Norway or Swiss model. But, yes, that would involve freedom of movement if it involved free movement of good. And paying some kind of fee.
Corbyn has said he wants to go for 'controlled immigration'. The specifics of which would need to be negotiated. We would then also need to negotiate on r trade deals with the EU and all the other services we will now have to replicate the buerocracy of.
Now please try and explain this to your Brexit buddies that thought otherwise. Some of them are still having trouble getting it.
-Matt"
Corbyn has mislead the public on Brexit then hasn't he, because he said free movement will end, you can't do that while staying in the single market. You just laid out what you think his position is and that includes free movement. That is not acceptable and if it proves to be the case I think a lot of Leave voters who voted Labour last night will be very angry and disappointed with Corbyn if he now tries to include free movement in his plans. It's all irrelevant anyway, Labour lost the election and are the opposition party in parliament. The Conservatives have formed a minority government with the help of the DUP giving them a majority. Just saw it on the news the Conservative policy is still to leave the single market and the customs union
which will end free movement of people here. Prime minister Theresa May and Brexit secretary David Davis are the ones who will open negotiations with the EU in 10 days time. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Yes but I wonder what the DUP leader meant by wanting a soft brexit.
I do think it's a good possibility now that the DUP have a rather large say on a lot of things Brexit related, plus loads of dosh for Northern Ireland |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes but I wonder what the DUP leader meant by wanting a soft brexit.
I do think it's a good possibility now that the DUP have a rather large say on a lot of things Brexit related, plus loads of dosh for Northern Ireland "
Northern ireland voted overwhelmingly remain. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Northern ireland voted overwhelmingly remain."
Yes, and I wonder if the hard Brexiters and UKIP should now be worried that a hard brexit could get dramatically changed now, like Norway style setup instead due to the DUP support |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink
Nonsense. The country voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last night. Tories and the DUP both in favour of Brexit and the 2nd largest party Labour got the support they did on a Brexit ticket. Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit. Farage says we are staring down the barrel of 2nd referendum ..Its on the cards.. I think i might pop down the bookies
.
I like Farage but he is wrong on this. I suspect he is just trying to drum up some support for Ukip. The fact is Tories came first and they are a Brexit party, Labour came 2nd and they are a Brexit party.
Yes very true but I think especially after seeing a corbyn interview the other day where he would not categorically state he would scrap Freedom of movement through brexit I think he and May have different ideas on brexit.
Now also the largest party in Northern Ireland is propping up the Tories lets not forget NI voted remain so I think the hard brexit is off the table now.
DUP are a hard Brexit party. On every televised debate during general election campaign Corbyn said in no uncertain terms "we are leaving the EU, free movement must end". If he wants to keep free movement now then he has lied and mislead the electorate.
Clearly it wasn't 'uncertain' as you seem to have said the opposite to what he said.
He stated that "When we leave the EU, freedom of movement will end". That is a fact. That is not an opinion. When we leave the EU, then freedom of movement will end. Not must end. Will end. Whether that is what he wants or doesn't want is completely irrelevant to what he stated.
-Matt
Ok if free movement of people 'will end' that means Corbyn's position is to leave the single market. You can't stay in the single market and end free movement. The EU have made it crystal clear if you stay in the single market you accept free movement.
You are almost getting it now. But you still don't quite understand. When we leave the EU we will leave the single market. Again, this is not Corbyn's policy, this is just a fact. Whether he wants to or not is irrelevant.
As you know, several Leave campaigners tried to gloss over this and convince voters that we'd remain in the single market when we left the EU. Some smart voters like yourself saw through the lies. Some did not.
What would be great would be if we could negotiate some alternative arrangement with the EU for once we are out. Something like the Norway or Swiss model. But, yes, that would involve freedom of movement if it involved free movement of good. And paying some kind of fee.
Corbyn has said he wants to go for 'controlled immigration'. The specifics of which would need to be negotiated. We would then also need to negotiate on r trade deals with the EU and all the other services we will now have to replicate the buerocracy of.
Now please try and explain this to your Brexit buddies that thought otherwise. Some of them are still having trouble getting it.
-Matt
Corbyn has mislead the public on Brexit then hasn't he, because he said free movement will end, you can't do that while staying in the single market. You just laid out what you think his position is and that includes free movement. That is not acceptable and if it proves to be the case I think a lot of Leave voters who voted Labour last night will be very angry and disappointed with Corbyn if he now tries to include free movement in his plans. It's all irrelevant anyway, Labour lost the election and are the opposition party in parliament. The Conservatives have formed a minority government with the help of the DUP giving them a majority. Just saw it on the news the Conservative policy is still to leave the single market and the customs union
which will end free movement of people here. Prime minister Theresa May and Brexit secretary David Davis are the ones who will open negotiations with the EU in 10 days time. "
Why would he now want free movement? He has said he wants 'controlled immigration'.
-Matt |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Yes but I wonder what the DUP leader meant by wanting a soft brexit.
I do think it's a good possibility now that the DUP have a rather large say on a lot of things Brexit related, plus loads of dosh for Northern Ireland "
To go nicely with the money they get from Saudi? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
Corbyns dilemma was he admitted the country/economy/NHS was so reliant on labour from freedom of movement yet acknowledged uncontrolled immigration wasn't working either |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Although I massively oppose Brexit what is the point of a democracy if we are going to re vote on everything that doesn't go the way we wanted??"
This ^ ...is integrity  |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Although I massively oppose Brexit what is the point of a democracy if we are going to re vote on everything that doesn't go the way we wanted??
This ^ ...is integrity "
Cool! So you are happy for us to go ahead an negotiate a Norway-style model then? You happy with a fee of £200M a week? Awesome
-Matt |
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"Yes but I wonder what the DUP leader meant by wanting a soft brexit.
I do think it's a good possibility now that the DUP have a rather large say on a lot of things Brexit related, plus loads of dosh for Northern Ireland Northern ireland voted overwhelmingly remain."
Yes but the DUP is a Brexit party and backed Leave during the EU referendum. |
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"Northern ireland voted overwhelmingly remain.
Yes, and I wonder if the hard Brexiters and UKIP should now be worried that a hard brexit could get dramatically changed now, like Norway style setup instead due to the DUP support "
The Tories had already factored in a special deal on the Northern Ireland border in their Brexit plan before the general election was called. So we will still be leaving the single market and the customs union with a special deal for a frictionless border for Northern Ireland (which is what the DUP want). The EU have also said from their point of view they want a special deal for the Northern Ireland border, (so not to put in jeopardy the peace process) so there seems to be consensus all round on it. I don't see that anything has changed really on the Tories EU negotiating strategy. |
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"Although I massively oppose Brexit what is the point of a democracy if we are going to re vote on everything that doesn't go the way we wanted??"
Same reason we have general elections every so often, people change their minds.
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"Although I massively oppose Brexit what is the point of a democracy if we are going to re vote on everything that doesn't go the way we wanted??
Same reason we have general elections every so often, people change their minds.
"
People haven't changed their mind about Brexit though. The Conservative share of the vote was 43% and the Labour share of the vote was 41%. It's in the Tory and Labour manifestos to Leave the EU. Brexit got over 80% of the vote in the general election. Remain is dead in the water. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Although I massively oppose Brexit what is the point of a democracy if we are going to re vote on everything that doesn't go the way we wanted??
This ^ ...is integrity
Cool! So you are happy for us to go ahead an negotiate a Norway-style model then? You happy with a fee of £200M a week? Awesome
-Matt"
youve seen details of a uk eu deal? Link? |
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"Although I massively oppose Brexit what is the point of a democracy if we are going to re vote on everything that doesn't go the way we wanted??
Same reason we have general elections every so often, people change their minds.
People haven't changed their mind about Brexit though. The Conservative share of the vote was 43% and the Labour share of the vote was 41%. It's in the Tory and Labour manifestos to Leave the EU. Brexit got over 80% of the vote in the general election. Remain is dead in the water. "
You can argue that I guess but, in the south, Labour had it's biggest swings towards it in seats that voted remain. Labour ignore that reality at their peril.
It maybe that a small majority still exists in favour of BREXIT but I doubt it. It's only on the (acceptable) extremes of both parties that real support for a hard BREXIT really exists. Most of the centre, left or right, is either in favour of remain or a much more softer form of BREXIT than that that was currently planned. And, as May has just found out, you can't really win an election without the centre. Corbyn will learn this to or never, ever actually win.
I always said that the biggest threat to BREXIT was BREXITers arrogance and unwillingness to compromise on their vision of an economically disastrous BREXIT. Starting to look and feel like I might have been right after all. |
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"Although I massively oppose Brexit what is the point of a democracy if we are going to re vote on everything that doesn't go the way we wanted??
Same reason we have general elections every so often, people change their minds.
People haven't changed their mind about Brexit though. The Conservative share of the vote was 43% and the Labour share of the vote was 41%. It's in the Tory and Labour manifestos to Leave the EU. Brexit got over 80% of the vote in the general election. Remain is dead in the water. "
The only party in England that openly campaigned for a second referendum were the Lib Dems and all they could muster was around 8% of the vote and a dozen seats. Hardly a resounding endorsement.
In Scotland the pro remain SNP lost around a third of its seats.
Surely if the appetite for a second referendum or even outright remain was so strong then Tim Farron would have been on the steps of Downing St yesterday and Wee Nicola whooping with joy. |
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I would be interested in finding out the genuine figures relating to
Reasons for leaving the eu
And staying.
Not the fudged bunch of shit we had upto the referendum!
Let's face it they reason why the tories are for brexit is they are wanting to make the UK a tax haven for large cooperations, hence why they refused to increase cooperation tax.
And have a system where a self employed plumber probably payed more tax lastyear than Facebook.
All these rich tories can buy shares in all these companies and have huge dividends from the super low tax rates the companies are on.
While the likes of you and I get hammered by being taxed in one form or another over 25% of our annual income.
Brexit is a fucking shambles, the government is a fucking shambles.
That said I couldn't do any better but I wish they were more honest. |
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"Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink
Nonsense. The country voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last night. Tories and the DUP both in favour of Brexit and the 2nd largest party Labour got the support they did on a Brexit ticket. Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit. Farage says we are staring down the barrel of 2nd referendum ..Its on the cards.. I think i might pop down the bookies
.
I like Farage but he is wrong on this. I suspect he is just trying to drum up some support for Ukip. The fact is Tories came first and they are a Brexit party, Labour came 2nd and they are a Brexit party.
Yes very true but I think especially after seeing a corbyn interview the other day where he would not categorically state he would scrap Freedom of movement through brexit I think he and May have different ideas on brexit.
Now also the largest party in Northern Ireland is propping up the Tories lets not forget NI voted remain so I think the hard brexit is off the table now.
DUP are a hard Brexit party. On every televised debate during general election campaign Corbyn said in no uncertain terms "we are leaving the EU, free movement must end". If he wants to keep free movement now then he has lied and mislead the electorate.
Clearly it wasn't 'uncertain' as you seem to have said the opposite to what he said.
He stated that "When we leave the EU, freedom of movement will end". That is a fact. That is not an opinion. When we leave the EU, then freedom of movement will end. Not must end. Will end. Whether that is what he wants or doesn't want is completely irrelevant to what he stated.
-Matt
Ok if free movement of people 'will end' that means Corbyn's position is to leave the single market. You can't stay in the single market and end free movement. The EU have made it crystal clear if you stay in the single market you accept free movement.
You are almost getting it now. But you still don't quite understand. When we leave the EU we will leave the single market. Again, this is not Corbyn's policy, this is just a fact. Whether he wants to or not is irrelevant.
As you know, several Leave campaigners tried to gloss over this and convince voters that we'd remain in the single market when we left the EU. Some smart voters like yourself saw through the lies. Some did not.
What would be great would be if we could negotiate some alternative arrangement with the EU for once we are out. Something like the Norway or Swiss model. But, yes, that would involve freedom of movement if it involved free movement of good. And paying some kind of fee.
Corbyn has said he wants to go for 'controlled immigration'. The specifics of which would need to be negotiated. We would then also need to negotiate on r trade deals with the EU and all the other services we will now have to replicate the buerocracy of.
Now please try and explain this to your Brexit buddies that thought otherwise. Some of them are still having trouble getting it.
-Matt"
spit on and well written hope people read it and understand it as well mind you I doubt it |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Although I massively oppose Brexit what is the point of a democracy if we are going to re vote on everything that doesn't go the way we wanted??
Yes. but many feel that the referendum process and question was too flawed to be called a democratic decision.
Let me illustrate it this way:
Imagine that Remain had won with a majority of a few percent. Then on the basis of this we decided to join the Euro and join Schengen without any debate because it was "The will of the people".
Absurd right? Well that is how many people feel about coming out of the single market and customs union.
-Matt"
Well, various governments have signed up to a variety of EU treaties and agreements without consulting the electorate.
What we joined was a common market....for trade purposes...what, over 40 years, we have ended up with is being a part of a political union, where our governments sign up and agree to EU edicts without consulting us.
And the absurdity of joining shengen and the euro with only 'a few percent' majority? What was France's vote on the Maastricht Treaty? |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink
Nonsense. The country voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last night. Tories and the DUP both in favour of Brexit and the 2nd largest party Labour got the support they did on a Brexit ticket. Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit. "
I voted Labour, and I am 100% opposed to Brexit, so your assumptions are more than a little off, Centaur. Only a fool would imagine that people automatically support or reject a party for one aspect of its multitude of manifesto pledges, and considering any detail of Brexit was conveniently ignored by both Labour and Tories in their campaigns, you'd have to be an even bigger fool to assume the election result tells us anything about Brexit at all.
All we really know about Brexit is that it is a clusterfuck of monumental proportions supported by fools who think 'reclaiming' our imaginary sovereignty is a good reason to through the UK's economic future down the toilet - but we knew that before the election.
I'm not suggesting you are a fool by the way, just to make that clear. But you do have some pretty foolish fellow travellers, don't you?  |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink
Nonsense. The country voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last night. Tories and the DUP both in favour of Brexit and the 2nd largest party Labour got the support they did on a Brexit ticket. Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit.
I voted Labour, and I am 100% opposed to Brexit, so your assumptions are more than a little off, Centaur. Only a fool would imagine that people automatically support or reject a party for one aspect of its multitude of manifesto pledges, and considering any detail of Brexit was conveniently ignored by both Labour and Tories in their campaigns, you'd have to be an even bigger fool to assume the election result tells us anything about Brexit at all.
All we really know about Brexit is that it is a clusterfuck of monumental proportions supported by fools who think 'reclaiming' our imaginary sovereignty is a good reason to through the UK's economic future down the toilet - but we knew that before the election.
I'm not suggesting you are a fool by the way, just to make that clear. But you do have some pretty foolish fellow travellers, don't you? "
-Matt |
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"Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink
Nonsense. The country voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last night. Tories and the DUP both in favour of Brexit and the 2nd largest party Labour got the support they did on a Brexit ticket. Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit.
I voted Labour, and I am 100% opposed to Brexit, so your assumptions are more than a little off, Centaur. Only a fool would imagine that people automatically support or reject a party for one aspect of its multitude of manifesto pledges, and considering any detail of Brexit was conveniently ignored by both Labour and Tories in their campaigns, you'd have to be an even bigger fool to assume the election result tells us anything about Brexit at all.
All we really know about Brexit is that it is a clusterfuck of monumental proportions supported by fools who think 'reclaiming' our imaginary sovereignty is a good reason to through the UK's economic future down the toilet - but we knew that before the election.
I'm not suggesting you are a fool by the way, just to make that clear. But you do have some pretty foolish fellow travellers, don't you? "
It really is very simple, a vote for Labour is a vote for Brexit. Brexit is in the Labour manifesto. If Corbyn is a man of integrity and an honest man of his word like you keep telling us then he would implement all of his manifesto, which includes Brexit. You may have voted for other things in the Labour manifesto but you also vote for Brexit by default by putting an X next to your Labour candidate in the general election. Well done for contributing to the 41% Brexit Labour vote on Thursday. You have just made the case for Brexit a lot stronger in the country. |
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"Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink
Nonsense. The country voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last night. Tories and the DUP both in favour of Brexit and the 2nd largest party Labour got the support they did on a Brexit ticket. Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit.
I voted Labour, and I am 100% opposed to Brexit, so your assumptions are more than a little off, Centaur. Only a fool would imagine that people automatically support or reject a party for one aspect of its multitude of manifesto pledges, and considering any detail of Brexit was conveniently ignored by both Labour and Tories in their campaigns, you'd have to be an even bigger fool to assume the election result tells us anything about Brexit at all.
All we really know about Brexit is that it is a clusterfuck of monumental proportions supported by fools who think 'reclaiming' our imaginary sovereignty is a good reason to through the UK's economic future down the toilet - but we knew that before the election.
I'm not suggesting you are a fool by the way, just to make that clear. But you do have some pretty foolish fellow travellers, don't you? "
this..
assuming that everyone who voted for exactly the same type of Brexit as ones self is naive..
|
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"Just seen this on Metro news website, a poll should we have a 2nd EU referendum, not sure how many have taken part but at the moment
YES 69%
NO 31%
Whadyathink
Nonsense. The country voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last night. Tories and the DUP both in favour of Brexit and the 2nd largest party Labour got the support they did on a Brexit ticket. Corbyn promised to deliver Brexit.
I voted Labour, and I am 100% opposed to Brexit, so your assumptions are more than a little off, Centaur. Only a fool would imagine that people automatically support or reject a party for one aspect of its multitude of manifesto pledges, and considering any detail of Brexit was conveniently ignored by both Labour and Tories in their campaigns, you'd have to be an even bigger fool to assume the election result tells us anything about Brexit at all.
All we really know about Brexit is that it is a clusterfuck of monumental proportions supported by fools who think 'reclaiming' our imaginary sovereignty is a good reason to through the UK's economic future down the toilet - but we knew that before the election.
I'm not suggesting you are a fool by the way, just to make that clear. But you do have some pretty foolish fellow travellers, don't you?
It really is very simple, a vote for Labour is a vote for Brexit. Brexit is in the Labour manifesto. If Corbyn is a man of integrity and an honest man of his word like you keep telling us then he would implement all of his manifesto, which includes Brexit. You may have voted for other things in the Labour manifesto but you also vote for Brexit by default by putting an X next to your Labour candidate in the general election. Well done for contributing to the 41% Brexit Labour vote on Thursday. You have just made the case for Brexit a lot stronger in the country. "
your hilarious Centaur..
by your 'logic' and i use the word very loosely then anyone who voted to remain should have not voted for anyone but the Lib Dems..
Listen again because you do have some difficulty accepting it, its going to happen..
got it..
we are leaving the EU..
take your time and let it sink in..
even though its been a year..
ok now you've grasped hopefully that simple fact and there are even people who you have slagged off like Ken Clarke in agreement you know..
look again at the Tory party, they are not united on what Brexit is. There are within their ranks people with different views about just what it will be..
and just to give you warning that you may not get what you as an individual actually want in all the area's that are Brexit..
that's called negotiation where 2 parties debate..
The case for Brexit can't be much stronger than something that's accepted as going to happen and NO i don't believe a 2nd referendum is necessary or should happen..
the case as you seem to want for the strongest Brexit, well refer you to the above..
your sounding like Trump when he says stuff like we will destroy ISIS, then says really, really destroy them..
bit of an obvious clue what the word destroy means..
you do also sound like your biggest fear is that it all goes tits up and your bubble gets burst, respect i could be wrong and you just like being repetitive..
are you worried that it may not happen..? |
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Hard BREXIT is off the table. Half the Conservative party doesn't support it, the Scottish Conservatives don't support it and it even turns out now that the DUP don't want it.
If the BTEXIT maniacs don't start compromising soon they could loos BREXIT altogether. |
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"Hard BREXIT is off the table. Half the Conservative party doesn't support it, the Scottish Conservatives don't support it and it even turns out now that the DUP don't want it.
If the BTEXIT maniacs don't start compromising soon they could loos BREXIT altogether."
That's just not true. As Douglas Carswell writes in the press today, the DUP are broadly already in agreement with Theresa May's Brexit plan (DUP want to leave the EU but have a special deal on a frictionless N.Ireland border, which is what Theresa May's Brexit plan already stated to begin with). The EU want a special deal on the N.Ireland border as well so looks like consensus all round there. Douglas Carswell also points out that by some strange twist of fate the tories who lost their seats on Thursday were mostly Remain tories like Neil Carmichael, so the Leave tories influence in government has actually been strengthened and the remain tories influence weakened. Bolt on 10 DUP MP's who back Brexit and in many ways you have a more Brexit aligned government than we had before the general election. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hard BREXIT is off the table. Half the Conservative party doesn't support it, the Scottish Conservatives don't support it and it even turns out now that the DUP don't want it.
If the BTEXIT maniacs don't start compromising soon they could loos BREXIT altogether.
That's just not true. As Douglas Carswell writes in the press today, the DUP are broadly already in agreement with Theresa May's Brexit plan (DUP want to leave the EU but have a special deal on a frictionless N.Ireland border, which is what Theresa May's Brexit plan already stated to begin with). The EU want a special deal on the N.Ireland border as well so looks like consensus all round there. Douglas Carswell also points out that by some strange twist of fate the tories who lost their seats on Thursday were mostly Remain tories like Neil Carmichael, so the Leave tories influence in government has actually been strengthened and the remain tories influence weakened. Bolt on 10 DUP MP's who back Brexit and in many ways you have a more Brexit aligned government than we had before the general election. "
You forget that the Scottish tories want single market access and the DUP also would prefer this.
Mrs may has to compromise to get this else she risks losing the backing of DUP and risks losing the tory gains made in Scotland who saved her yesterday. |
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"Hard BREXIT is off the table. Half the Conservative party doesn't support it, the Scottish Conservatives don't support it and it even turns out now that the DUP don't want it.
If the BTEXIT maniacs don't start compromising soon they could loos BREXIT altogether.
That's just not true. As Douglas Carswell writes in the press today, the DUP are broadly already in agreement with Theresa May's Brexit plan (DUP want to leave the EU but have a special deal on a frictionless N.Ireland border, which is what Theresa May's Brexit plan already stated to begin with). The EU want a special deal on the N.Ireland border as well so looks like consensus all round there. Douglas Carswell also points out that by some strange twist of fate the tories who lost their seats on Thursday were mostly Remain tories like Neil Carmichael, so the Leave tories influence in government has actually been strengthened and the remain tories influence weakened. Bolt on 10 DUP MP's who back Brexit and in many ways you have a more Brexit aligned government than we had before the general election.
You forget that the Scottish tories want single market access and the DUP also would prefer this.
Mrs may has to compromise to get this else she risks losing the backing of DUP and risks losing the tory gains made in Scotland who saved her yesterday."
The DUP have not said they want to stay in the single market. They just want a special deal for a frictionless N.Ireland border. It's possible to leave the single market and still do a deal on the border issue because the EU want a special deal on the N.Ireland border as well. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hard BREXIT is off the table. Half the Conservative party doesn't support it, the Scottish Conservatives don't support it and it even turns out now that the DUP don't want it.
If the BTEXIT maniacs don't start compromising soon they could loos BREXIT altogether.
That's just not true. As Douglas Carswell writes in the press today, the DUP are broadly already in agreement with Theresa May's Brexit plan (DUP want to leave the EU but have a special deal on a frictionless N.Ireland border, which is what Theresa May's Brexit plan already stated to begin with). The EU want a special deal on the N.Ireland border as well so looks like consensus all round there. Douglas Carswell also points out that by some strange twist of fate the tories who lost their seats on Thursday were mostly Remain tories like Neil Carmichael, so the Leave tories influence in government has actually been strengthened and the remain tories influence weakened. Bolt on 10 DUP MP's who back Brexit and in many ways you have a more Brexit aligned government than we had before the general election.
You forget that the Scottish tories want single market access and the DUP also would prefer this.
Mrs may has to compromise to get this else she risks losing the backing of DUP and risks losing the tory gains made in Scotland who saved her yesterday.
The DUP have not said they want to stay in the single market. They just want a special deal for a frictionless N.Ireland border. It's possible to leave the single market and still do a deal on the border issue because the EU want a special deal on the N.Ireland border as well. "
The DUP have catergorically denied to use the moto of "no deal is better than a bad one". They proclaimed they want a free trade arrangement with the EU. Preferably access to the single market, if not a bespoke deal. Face it, unless the tories bend over for them, they will pull brexit to the centre. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
The DUP have not said they want to stay in the single market. They just want a special deal for a frictionless N.Ireland border. It's possible to leave the single market and still do a deal on the border issue because the EU want a special deal on the N.Ireland border as well. "
Hmmm, whadyafinkovthisthen
"While Brexiteers breathed a sigh of relief when Theresa May confirmed she would seek to partner up with the DUP, Express.co.uk has unearthed a shocking letter which shows the party's real motives and view on Brexit.
The letter written in August, penned by then First Minister of Northern Ireland Arlene Foster and her then deputy Martin McGuinness, makes numerous demands to maintain ties with the European Union (EU). They included freedom of movement rights and trade links.
In the letter Ms Foster said: “It is critical to our economy that our businesses, both indigenous and FDI companies, retain their competitiveness and do not incur additional costs."
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/815141/Election-2017-DUP-Theresa-May-Arlene-Foster-Brexit-coalition/amp |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Soft Brexit is a contradiction in terms. The EU themselves have made it clear from day one and repeatedly since, that effectively there is only one kind of Brexit, a hard one.
They have said over and over that single market access goes with "freedom of movement" and that we cannot "cherry pick" the bit we like and leave the rest.
Since the main objective of Brexit voters is to curb immigration... you can see the problem Junkers warnings present for the negotiations.
Remain is made up of minority interests who have a very particular personal or private interest in supporting EU membership.
Theirs is each a very personal choice.
The Brexiters are different in that they are united in a single common aim.
|
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Soft Brexit is a contradiction in terms. The EU themselves have made it clear from day one and repeatedly since, that effectively there is only one kind of Brexit, a hard one.
They have said over and over that single market access goes with "freedom of movement" and that we cannot "cherry pick" the bit we like and leave the rest.
Since the main objective of Brexit voters is to curb immigration... you can see the problem Junkers warnings present for the negotiations.
Remain is made up of minority interests who have a very particular personal or private interest in supporting EU membership.
Theirs is each a very personal choice.
The Brexiters are different in that they are united in a single common aim.
"
You must be new on this forum then
There have been many arguments on here about whether Leavers all voted for the same reasons. Some people on here seem to think they all did. I don't understand that thinking as even on here the die-hard leavers all say different reasons.
Remain is a simple one. It is for the status quo. We know what that involves, how much it costs, and what terms we have and what benefit we get.
-Matt |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Soft Brexit is a contradiction in terms. The EU themselves have made it clear from day one and repeatedly since, that effectively there is only one kind of Brexit, a hard one.
They have said over and over that single market access goes with "freedom of movement" and that we cannot "cherry pick" the bit we like and leave the rest.
Since the main objective of Brexit voters is to curb immigration... you can see the problem Junkers warnings present for the negotiations.
Remain is made up of minority interests who have a very particular personal or private interest in supporting EU membership.
Theirs is each a very personal choice.
The Brexiters are different in that they are united in a single common aim.
You must be new on this forum then
There have been many arguments on here about whether Leavers all voted for the same reasons. Some people on here seem to think they all did. I don't understand that thinking as even on here the die-hard leavers all say different reasons.
Remain is a simple one. It is for the status quo. We know what that involves, how much it costs, and what terms we have and what benefit we get.
-Matt"
No its not a stastus quo anymore than it has been from the last vote.
More members, more central control, eu army, single foreign policy etc etc |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Soft Brexit is a contradiction in terms. The EU themselves have made it clear from day one and repeatedly since, that effectively there is only one kind of Brexit, a hard one.
They have said over and over that single market access goes with "freedom of movement" and that we cannot "cherry pick" the bit we like and leave the rest.
Since the main objective of Brexit voters is to curb immigration... you can see the problem Junkers warnings present for the negotiations.
Remain is made up of minority interests who have a very particular personal or private interest in supporting EU membership.
Theirs is each a very personal choice.
The Brexiters are different in that they are united in a single common aim.
You must be new on this forum then
There have been many arguments on here about whether Leavers all voted for the same reasons. Some people on here seem to think they all did. I don't understand that thinking as even on here the die-hard leavers all say different reasons.
Remain is a simple one. It is for the status quo. We know what that involves, how much it costs, and what terms we have and what benefit we get.
-Matt
No its not a stastus quo anymore than it has been from the last vote.
More members, more central control, eu army, single foreign policy etc etc "
Right. All of that we know. All of those things we had a vote over. As you know we had already negotiated out of an 'ever closer union'.
-Matt |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
While Brexiteers breathed a sigh of relief when Theresa May confirmed she would seek to partner up with the DUP, Express.co.uk has unearthed a shocking letter which shows the party's real motives and view on Brexit.
The letter written in August, penned by then First Minister of Northern Ireland Arlene Foster and her then deputy Martin McGuinness, makes numerous demands to maintain ties with the European Union (EU). They included freedom of movement rights and trade links.
In the letter Ms Foster said: “It is critical to our economy that our businesses, both indigenous and FDI companies, retain their competitiveness and do not incur additional costs.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/815141/Election-2017-DUP-Theresa-May-Arlene-Foster-Brexit-coalition/amp"
and the sound you just heard was the sound of "crickets" from the hard brexiteers...
so..... the customs union or the single market then?
pick ya poison....
i'm happier in the knowledge the hardline exit that i know some here wanted to happen is basically dead in the water..... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
While Brexiteers breathed a sigh of relief when Theresa May confirmed she would seek to partner up with the DUP, Express.co.uk has unearthed a shocking letter which shows the party's real motives and view on Brexit.
The letter written in August, penned by then First Minister of Northern Ireland Arlene Foster and her then deputy Martin McGuinness, makes numerous demands to maintain ties with the European Union (EU). They included freedom of movement rights and trade links.
In the letter Ms Foster said: “It is critical to our economy that our businesses, both indigenous and FDI companies, retain their competitiveness and do not incur additional costs.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/815141/Election-2017-DUP-Theresa-May-Arlene-Foster-Brexit-coalition/amp
and the sound you just heard was the sound of "crickets" from the hard brexiteers...
so..... the customs union or the single market then?
pick ya poison....
i'm happier in the knowledge the hardline exit that i know some here wanted to happen is basically dead in the water....."
Is starting to possibly look that way. |
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"
The DUP have not said they want to stay in the single market. They just want a special deal for a frictionless N.Ireland border. It's possible to leave the single market and still do a deal on the border issue because the EU want a special deal on the N.Ireland border as well.
Hmmm, whadyafinkovthisthen
While Brexiteers breathed a sigh of relief when Theresa May confirmed she would seek to partner up with the DUP, Express.co.uk has unearthed a shocking letter which shows the party's real motives and view on Brexit.
The letter written in August, penned by then First Minister of Northern Ireland Arlene Foster and her then deputy Martin McGuinness, makes numerous demands to maintain ties with the European Union (EU). They included freedom of movement rights and trade links.
In the letter Ms Foster said: “It is critical to our economy that our businesses, both indigenous and FDI companies, retain their competitiveness and do not incur additional costs.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/815141/Election-2017-DUP-Theresa-May-Arlene-Foster-Brexit-coalition/amp"
Well first point is Martin McGuiness has passed away. 2nd point there is no mention at all about the single market in what you posted. |
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"Soft Brexit is a contradiction in terms. The EU themselves have made it clear from day one and repeatedly since, that effectively there is only one kind of Brexit, a hard one.
They have said over and over that single market access goes with "freedom of movement" and that we cannot "cherry pick" the bit we like and leave the rest.
Since the main objective of Brexit voters is to curb immigration... you can see the problem Junkers warnings present for the negotiations.
Remain is made up of minority interests who have a very particular personal or private interest in supporting EU membership.
Theirs is each a very personal choice.
The Brexiters are different in that they are united in a single common aim.
"
Yes Brexit is basically set out by these main points....
1. End EU free movement and have full control of our borders and immigration policy (this can only be achieved by leaving the single market).
2. Free to make our own trade deals around the world (this can only be achieved by leaving the customs union).
3. Taking back control of our sovereignty and our laws (this means leaving the political institutions of the EU and the European courts to make British law supreme here over European law).
4. Taking control of our own money and ending vast EU budget payments. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
In the letter Ms Foster said: “It is critical to our economy that our businesses, both indigenous and FDI companies, retain their competitiveness and do not incur additional costs.
"
Their economy / businesses can only retain competitiveness and not incur additional costs with free trade Centaur ........
I think you're being fact blind again
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Soft Brexit is a contradiction in terms. The EU themselves have made it clear from day one and repeatedly since, that effectively there is only one kind of Brexit, a hard one.
They have said over and over that single market access goes with "freedom of movement" and that we cannot "cherry pick" the bit we like and leave the rest.
Since the main objective of Brexit voters is to curb immigration... you can see the problem Junkers warnings present for the negotiations.
Remain is made up of minority interests who have a very particular personal or private interest in supporting EU membership.
Theirs is each a very personal choice.
The Brexiters are different in that they are united in a single common aim.
Yes Brexit is basically set out by these main points....
1. End EU free movement and have full control of our borders and immigration policy (this can only be achieved by leaving the single market).
2. Free to make our own trade deals around the world (this can only be achieved by leaving the customs union).
3. Taking back control of our sovereignty and our laws (this means leaving the political institutions of the EU and the European courts to make British law supreme here over European law).
4. Taking control of our own money and ending vast EU budget payments. "
Oh yes i know...... that was before the Tories needed the Irish DUP to enable them to cobble together a much weakened and unstable government |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
Yes Brexit is basically set out by these main points....
1. End EU free movement and have full control of our borders and immigration policy (this can only be achieved by leaving the single market).
"
..... any you do mean that would mean a proper hard border would have to go up in ireland .....
you lose!!!!!! another election... you lose!!!
there is a school of thought that the EU and the irish government actually care more about northern ireland and the consequence of that than the hardline brexiteers living in lovely england who keep pushing for all this....
you are not doing much to dispell that notion...... |
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"
In the letter Ms Foster said: “It is critical to our economy that our businesses, both indigenous and FDI companies, retain their competitiveness and do not incur additional costs.
Their economy / businesses can only retain competitiveness and not incur additional costs with free trade Centaur ........
I think you're being fact blind again
"
Where are the words 'single' and 'market' in that sentence? |
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"
Yes Brexit is basically set out by these main points....
1. End EU free movement and have full control of our borders and immigration policy (this can only be achieved by leaving the single market).
..... any you do mean that would mean a proper hard border would have to go up in ireland .....
you lose!!!!!! another election... you lose!!!
there is a school of thought that the EU and the irish government actually care more about northern ireland and the consequence of that than the hardline brexiteers living in lovely england who keep pushing for all this....
you are not doing much to dispell that notion...... "
You are completely selectively ignoring what Theresa May set out in her Brexit plan which stated a special deal on the N.Ireland border. You are also ignoring the fact we already have a special bilateral border deal with France called treaty of Le Touquet (same can be done with Ireland). You are also ignoring the fact the EU have said themselves they want a special deal on the N.Ireland border.
Also you can drop the 'you lose' nonsense, the tories just won the general election on a hard Brexit ticket and would do so again. It wasn't Brexit that lost the tories the election (they gained half the ukip vote) what they lost their majority on were issues outside of Brexit such as the unpopular social care policy. The tories won't be making that mistake again. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
Yes Brexit is basically set out by these main points....
1. End EU free movement and have full control of our borders and immigration policy (this can only be achieved by leaving the single market).
..... any you do mean that would mean a proper hard border would have to go up in ireland .....
you lose!!!!!! another election... you lose!!!
there is a school of thought that the EU and the irish government actually care more about northern ireland and the consequence of that than the hardline brexiteers living in lovely england who keep pushing for all this....
you are not doing much to dispell that notion......
You are completely selectively ignoring what Theresa May set out in her Brexit plan which stated a special deal on the N.Ireland border. You are also ignoring the fact we already have a special bilateral border deal with France called treaty of Le Touquet (same can be done with Ireland). You are also ignoring the fact the EU have said themselves they want a special deal on the N.Ireland border.
"
now you are parroting what you have no idea of....
Le Touquet works because they allow you to put uk borders on french territory.... and vice versa....
you do realise they are hard borders don't you.... when was the last time you went thru dover or the eurotunnel terminal?
|
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"
Yes Brexit is basically set out by these main points....
1. End EU free movement and have full control of our borders and immigration policy (this can only be achieved by leaving the single market).
..... any you do mean that would mean a proper hard border would have to go up in ireland .....
you lose!!!!!! another election... you lose!!!
there is a school of thought that the EU and the irish government actually care more about northern ireland and the consequence of that than the hardline brexiteers living in lovely england who keep pushing for all this....
you are not doing much to dispell that notion......
You are completely selectively ignoring what Theresa May set out in her Brexit plan which stated a special deal on the N.Ireland border. You are also ignoring the fact we already have a special bilateral border deal with France called treaty of Le Touquet (same can be done with Ireland). You are also ignoring the fact the EU have said themselves they want a special deal on the N.Ireland border.
Also you can drop the 'you lose' nonsense, the tories just won the general election on a hard Brexit ticket and would do so again. It wasn't Brexit that lost the tories the election (they gained half the ukip vote) what they lost their majority on were issues outside of Brexit such as the unpopular social care policy. The tories won't be making that mistake again. "
Theresa May?
Brexit Plan?
Is there a punchline? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
In the letter Ms Foster said: “It is critical to our economy that our businesses, both indigenous and FDI companies, retain their competitiveness and do not incur additional costs.
Their economy / businesses can only retain competitiveness and not incur additional costs with free trade Centaur ........
I think you're being fact blind again
Where are the words 'single' and 'market' in that sentence? "
She dosen't need to say "single market" she's saying they require not to incur additional costs, could that possibly mean tarrifs ? So free trade ,what does that entail ? |
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"
In the letter Ms Foster said: “It is critical to our economy that our businesses, both indigenous and FDI companies, retain their competitiveness and do not incur additional costs.
Their economy / businesses can only retain competitiveness and not incur additional costs with free trade Centaur ........
I think you're being fact blind again
Where are the words 'single' and 'market' in that sentence?
She dosen't need to say "single market" she's saying they require not to incur additional costs, could that possibly mean tarrifs ? So free trade ,what does that entail ?"
You don't have to be in the single market to have free trade. Theresa May's brexit plan states to leave the single market and the customs union and negotiate a comprehensive free trade agreement. |
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"
Yes Brexit is basically set out by these main points....
1. End EU free movement and have full control of our borders and immigration policy (this can only be achieved by leaving the single market).
..... any you do mean that would mean a proper hard border would have to go up in ireland .....
you lose!!!!!! another election... you lose!!!
there is a school of thought that the EU and the irish government actually care more about northern ireland and the consequence of that than the hardline brexiteers living in lovely england who keep pushing for all this....
you are not doing much to dispell that notion......
You are completely selectively ignoring what Theresa May set out in her Brexit plan which stated a special deal on the N.Ireland border. You are also ignoring the fact we already have a special bilateral border deal with France called treaty of Le Touquet (same can be done with Ireland). You are also ignoring the fact the EU have said themselves they want a special deal on the N.Ireland border.
Also you can drop the 'you lose' nonsense, the tories just won the general election on a hard Brexit ticket and would do so again. It wasn't Brexit that lost the tories the election (they gained half the ukip vote) what they lost their majority on were issues outside of Brexit such as the unpopular social care policy. The tories won't be making that mistake again.
Theresa May?
Brexit Plan?
Is there a punchline? "
No but at least the tories have a Brexit plan. Where is Labours Brexit plan, other than to mislead Labour remainers to think one thing and Labour Leavers to think another. |
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"
Yes Brexit is basically set out by these main points....
1. End EU free movement and have full control of our borders and immigration policy (this can only be achieved by leaving the single market).
..... any you do mean that would mean a proper hard border would have to go up in ireland .....
you lose!!!!!! another election... you lose!!!
there is a school of thought that the EU and the irish government actually care more about northern ireland and the consequence of that than the hardline brexiteers living in lovely england who keep pushing for all this....
you are not doing much to dispell that notion......
You are completely selectively ignoring what Theresa May set out in her Brexit plan which stated a special deal on the N.Ireland border. You are also ignoring the fact we already have a special bilateral border deal with France called treaty of Le Touquet (same can be done with Ireland). You are also ignoring the fact the EU have said themselves they want a special deal on the N.Ireland border.
now you are parroting what you have no idea of....
Le Touquet works because they allow you to put uk borders on french territory.... and vice versa....
you do realise they are hard borders don't you.... when was the last time you went thru dover or the eurotunnel terminal?
"
Jeez you are slow tonight Fabio. Of course the terms of the Treaty of Le Touquet with France wouldn't be exactly the same as a deal on the N.Ireland border. I just gave the treaty of Le Touquet as an example and proof that a special bespoke deal can be done on border controls. The terms and requirements of a deal on the N.Ireland border would be completely different in relation to the unique circumstances there, but a special deal can be done as deals have already been done on border controls elsewhere. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"
In the letter Ms Foster said: “It is critical to our economy that our businesses, both indigenous and FDI companies, retain their competitiveness and do not incur additional costs.
Their economy / businesses can only retain competitiveness and not incur additional costs with free trade Centaur ........
I think you're being fact blind again
Where are the words 'single' and 'market' in that sentence?
She dosen't need to say "single market" she's saying they require not to incur additional costs, could that possibly mean tarrifs ? So free trade ,what does that entail ?
You don't have to be in the single market to have free trade. Theresa May's brexit plan states to leave the single market and the customs union and negotiate a comprehensive free trade agreement. "
Ok. And what do we 'give' the EU in return? Norway and Switzerland have a free trade deal and have to pay a fee and have freedom of movement as part of it. If we are not willing to do that, what else can we put on the table?
-Matt |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"
Yes Brexit is basically set out by these main points....
1. End EU free movement and have full control of our borders and immigration policy (this can only be achieved by leaving the single market).
..... any you do mean that would mean a proper hard border would have to go up in ireland .....
you lose!!!!!! another election... you lose!!!
there is a school of thought that the EU and the irish government actually care more about northern ireland and the consequence of that than the hardline brexiteers living in lovely england who keep pushing for all this....
you are not doing much to dispell that notion......
You are completely selectively ignoring what Theresa May set out in her Brexit plan which stated a special deal on the N.Ireland border. You are also ignoring the fact we already have a special bilateral border deal with France called treaty of Le Touquet (same can be done with Ireland). You are also ignoring the fact the EU have said themselves they want a special deal on the N.Ireland border.
now you are parroting what you have no idea of....
Le Touquet works because they allow you to put uk borders on french territory.... and vice versa....
you do realise they are hard borders don't you.... when was the last time you went thru dover or the eurotunnel terminal?
Jeez you are slow tonight Fabio. Of course the terms of the Treaty of Le Touquet with France wouldn't be exactly the same as a deal on the N.Ireland border. I just gave the treaty of Le Touquet as an example and proof that a special bespoke deal can be done on border controls. The terms and requirements of a deal on the N.Ireland border would be completely different in relation to the unique circumstances there, but a special deal can be done as deals have already been done on border controls elsewhere. "
Yes, but the point is the Le Touquet deal doesn't change the fact there is a hard border. It doesn't take anything away from the existing rules at all. All it is is a bilateral agreement to swap the immigration controls over. Nothing more.
Say we keep a soft border between NI and Eire, what happens then? Surely any EU national can fly to Eire and just simply walk over the border to the UK
-Matt |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Soft Brexit is a contradiction in terms. The EU themselves have made it clear from day one and repeatedly since, that effectively there is only one kind of Brexit, a hard one.
They have said over and over that single market access goes with "freedom of movement" and that we cannot "cherry pick" the bit we like and leave the rest.
Since the main objective of Brexit voters is to curb immigration... you can see the problem Junkers warnings present for the negotiations.
Remain is made up of minority interests who have a very particular personal or private interest in supporting EU membership.
Theirs is each a very personal choice.
The Brexiters are different in that they are united in a single common aim.
Yes Brexit is basically set out by these main points....
1. End EU free movement and have full control of our borders and immigration policy (this can only be achieved by leaving the single market).
2. Free to make our own trade deals around the world (this can only be achieved by leaving the customs union).
3. Taking back control of our sovereignty and our laws (this means leaving the political institutions of the EU and the European courts to make British law supreme here over European law).
4. Taking control of our own money and ending vast EU budget payments. "
Yes I should have said ONE of the main objectives. |
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"
In the letter Ms Foster said: “It is critical to our economy that our businesses, both indigenous and FDI companies, retain their competitiveness and do not incur additional costs.
Their economy / businesses can only retain competitiveness and not incur additional costs with free trade Centaur ........
I think you're being fact blind again
Where are the words 'single' and 'market' in that sentence?
She dosen't need to say "single market" she's saying they require not to incur additional costs, could that possibly mean tarrifs ? So free trade ,what does that entail ?
You don't have to be in the single market to have free trade. Theresa May's brexit plan states to leave the single market and the customs union and negotiate a comprehensive free trade agreement. "
Britain isnt getting a comprehensive free trade agreement without a comprehensive right of free movement of people. You already know this.
You either get tarrifs or immigration control. You dont and wont get both. |
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"
Yes Brexit is basically set out by these main points....
1. End EU free movement and have full control of our borders and immigration policy (this can only be achieved by leaving the single market).
..... any you do mean that would mean a proper hard border would have to go up in ireland .....
you lose!!!!!! another election... you lose!!!
there is a school of thought that the EU and the irish government actually care more about northern ireland and the consequence of that than the hardline brexiteers living in lovely england who keep pushing for all this....
you are not doing much to dispell that notion......
You are completely selectively ignoring what Theresa May set out in her Brexit plan which stated a special deal on the N.Ireland border. You are also ignoring the fact we already have a special bilateral border deal with France called treaty of Le Touquet (same can be done with Ireland). You are also ignoring the fact the EU have said themselves they want a special deal on the N.Ireland border.
now you are parroting what you have no idea of....
Le Touquet works because they allow you to put uk borders on french territory.... and vice versa....
you do realise they are hard borders don't you.... when was the last time you went thru dover or the eurotunnel terminal?
Jeez you are slow tonight Fabio. Of course the terms of the Treaty of Le Touquet with France wouldn't be exactly the same as a deal on the N.Ireland border. I just gave the treaty of Le Touquet as an example and proof that a special bespoke deal can be done on border controls. The terms and requirements of a deal on the N.Ireland border would be completely different in relation to the unique circumstances there, but a special deal can be done as deals have already been done on border controls elsewhere.
Yes, but the point is the Le Touquet deal doesn't change the fact there is a hard border. It doesn't take anything away from the existing rules at all. All it is is a bilateral agreement to swap the immigration controls over. Nothing more.
Say we keep a soft border between NI and Eire, what happens then? Surely any EU national can fly to Eire and just simply walk over the border to the UK
-Matt"
Id imagine it would mean no border between the Republic and Northern Ireland and border checks between the UK and Northern Ireland to prevent that as well as companies trying to avoid tarrifs.
The DUP are definitely going to love the idea of there being less friction between the Republic than there is with the UK. They famously love the idea of Northern Ireland being closer to the Republic at the expense of ties to the UK. |
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Even if you did a hard ni to England border, instead of Ireland/ni boarder, that still leaves the ni territory open to eu trading. And smuggling?
During the campaign leave where full of "we will get a good deal/free trade and control of our borders because we are so important and good negiators"
They won and ran away.
Sure the aim is free trade and border control, but we are very unlikely to get that.
Also we will need todo deals very rapidly or we fuck ourselves hugely, and every other country knows that, and we will compete with low wage countries with no/less tariff protection on imports.
While I'm a remainer, I think leaving the eu political stuff, but staying in the single market isn't that great, doesn't make alot of sense to give up our seat.
And we are ment to trust those who bailed, those that wrote / signed off the tory manifesto to have good judgement on our laws and trade deals...
Oh and had this stupid referendum with no exit plan, other than quit. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
In the letter Ms Foster said: “It is critical to our economy that our businesses, both indigenous and FDI companies, retain their competitiveness and do not incur additional costs.
Their economy / businesses can only retain competitiveness and not incur additional costs with free trade Centaur ........
I think you're being fact blind again
Where are the words 'single' and 'market' in that sentence?
She dosen't need to say "single market" she's saying they require not to incur additional costs, could that possibly mean tarrifs ? So free trade ,what does that entail ?
You don't have to be in the single market to have free trade. Theresa May's brexit plan states to leave the single market and the customs union and negotiate a comprehensive free trade agreement. "
Yes Centaur I know what May's Christmas wishlist contains, it's what she wants, hell we'd all like a no strings free trade deal with the EU but some are being more realistic about the probable outcome than others.
Anyway you think one thing I think another, just a waiting game now. |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
Corbyn was very clear on how Labour would approach Brexit negotiations on Marr earlier.
Once again, Labour's tanks are on the Tories' lawn. There is not a single sane person in the UK today who would favour negotiations being led by whatever coalition of nutbags May can scrape together, over the mature and statesmanlike team Corbyn can assemble. Negotiations work when dialogue is calm, measured and based around mutual respect. All qualities the population has been shown very clearly are almost entirely absent from the Conservatives at a senior level.
It wouldn't surprise me if Hammond jumped ship to Labour, to be honest. He must feel like the only adult in the room 95% of the time. |
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"Corbyn was very clear on how Labour would approach Brexit negotiations on Marr earlier.
Once again, Labour's tanks are on the Tories' lawn. There is not a single sane person in the UK today who would favour negotiations being led by whatever coalition of nutbags May can scrape together, over the mature and statesmanlike team Corbyn can assemble. Negotiations work when dialogue is calm, measured and based around mutual respect. All qualities the population has been shown very clearly are almost entirely absent from the Conservatives at a senior level.
It wouldn't surprise me if Hammond jumped ship to Labour, to be honest. He must feel like the only adult in the room 95% of the time."
Frankly it is astonishing to hear the level of vitriol and nastiness that Labour supporters now throw in the DUP's direction given the maths of the general election result dictate that any Labour coalition/alliance would also need the DUP support. One misguided Guardian columnist did an interview on sky news earlier saying that Labour are ready to form a minority government (laughable in the extreme when you consider Labour are some 60 seats short of the Conservatives). The Guardian columnist was calling the DUP all the names under the sun, while completely ignoring the fact a Labour minority government or coalition/alliance of any kind would have to include the 10 DUP to take them over the winning line. I imagine the DUP would tell the Labour party exactly where to go given the amount of abuse that has been hurled at them from Labour supporters over the last 2 days. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Corbyn was very clear on how Labour would approach Brexit negotiations on Marr earlier.
Once again, Labour's tanks are on the Tories' lawn. There is not a single sane person in the UK today who would favour negotiations being led by whatever coalition of nutbags May can scrape together, over the mature and statesmanlike team Corbyn can assemble. Negotiations work when dialogue is calm, measured and based around mutual respect. All qualities the population has been shown very clearly are almost entirely absent from the Conservatives at a senior level.
It wouldn't surprise me if Hammond jumped ship to Labour, to be honest. He must feel like the only adult in the room 95% of the time.
Frankly it is astonishing to hear the level of vitriol and nastiness that Labour supporters now throw in the DUP's direction given the maths of the general election result dictate that any Labour coalition/alliance would also need the DUP support. One misguided Guardian columnist did an interview on sky news earlier saying that Labour are ready to form a minority government (laughable in the extreme when you consider Labour are some 60 seats short of the Conservatives). The Guardian columnist was calling the DUP all the names under the sun, while completely ignoring the fact a Labour minority government or coalition/alliance of any kind would have to include the 10 DUP to take them over the winning line. I imagine the DUP would tell the Labour party exactly where to go given the amount of abuse that has been hurled at them from Labour supporters over the last 2 days. "
The clue is in the name. "Minority government". That is a government that doesn't manage to reach a majority. Hence, no it would not need the DUP. Just in the same way the current Conservative govt is not forming a coalition and is going to run a minority govt. with a supply and confidence agreement with DUP.
-Matt |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Corbyn was very clear on how Labour would approach Brexit negotiations on Marr earlier.
Once again, Labour's tanks are on the Tories' lawn. There is not a single sane person in the UK today who would favour negotiations being led by whatever coalition of nutbags May can scrape together, over the mature and statesmanlike team Corbyn can assemble. Negotiations work when dialogue is calm, measured and based around mutual respect. All qualities the population has been shown very clearly are almost entirely absent from the Conservatives at a senior level.
It wouldn't surprise me if Hammond jumped ship to Labour, to be honest. He must feel like the only adult in the room 95% of the time."
What a difference a couple of years makes.
I agree with you 100% |
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"Corbyn was very clear on how Labour would approach Brexit negotiations on Marr earlier.
Once again, Labour's tanks are on the Tories' lawn. There is not a single sane person in the UK today who would favour negotiations being led by whatever coalition of nutbags May can scrape together, over the mature and statesmanlike team Corbyn can assemble. Negotiations work when dialogue is calm, measured and based around mutual respect. All qualities the population has been shown very clearly are almost entirely absent from the Conservatives at a senior level.
It wouldn't surprise me if Hammond jumped ship to Labour, to be honest. He must feel like the only adult in the room 95% of the time.
Frankly it is astonishing to hear the level of vitriol and nastiness that Labour supporters now throw in the DUP's direction given the maths of the general election result dictate that any Labour coalition/alliance would also need the DUP support. One misguided Guardian columnist did an interview on sky news earlier saying that Labour are ready to form a minority government (laughable in the extreme when you consider Labour are some 60 seats short of the Conservatives). The Guardian columnist was calling the DUP all the names under the sun, while completely ignoring the fact a Labour minority government or coalition/alliance of any kind would have to include the 10 DUP to take them over the winning line. I imagine the DUP would tell the Labour party exactly where to go given the amount of abuse that has been hurled at them from Labour supporters over the last 2 days.
The clue is in the name. "Minority government". That is a government that doesn't manage to reach a majority. Hence, no it would not need the DUP. Just in the same way the current Conservative govt is not forming a coalition and is going to run a minority govt. with a supply and confidence agreement with DUP.
-Matt"
A Labour minority government that would need the support of the 10 DUP MP's in Parliament to get anything done. Call it what you like, a coalition, an alliance, a confidence and supply agreement, the maths dictate Labour would need to work with the DUP. |
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"Corbyn was very clear on how Labour would approach Brexit negotiations on Marr earlier.
Once again, Labour's tanks are on the Tories' lawn. There is not a single sane person in the UK today who would favour negotiations being led by whatever coalition of nutbags May can scrape together, over the mature and statesmanlike team Corbyn can assemble. Negotiations work when dialogue is calm, measured and based around mutual respect. All qualities the population has been shown very clearly are almost entirely absent from the Conservatives at a senior level.
It wouldn't surprise me if Hammond jumped ship to Labour, to be honest. He must feel like the only adult in the room 95% of the time.
Frankly it is astonishing to hear the level of vitriol and nastiness that Labour supporters now throw in the DUP's direction given the maths of the general election result dictate that any Labour coalition/alliance would also need the DUP support. One misguided Guardian columnist did an interview on sky news earlier saying that Labour are ready to form a minority government (laughable in the extreme when you consider Labour are some 60 seats short of the Conservatives). The Guardian columnist was calling the DUP all the names under the sun, while completely ignoring the fact a Labour minority government or coalition/alliance of any kind would have to include the 10 DUP to take them over the winning line. I imagine the DUP would tell the Labour party exactly where to go given the amount of abuse that has been hurled at them from Labour supporters over the last 2 days.
The clue is in the name. "Minority government". That is a government that doesn't manage to reach a majority. Hence, no it would not need the DUP. Just in the same way the current Conservative govt is not forming a coalition and is going to run a minority govt. with a supply and confidence agreement with DUP.
-Matt
A Labour minority government that would need the support of the 10 DUP MP's in Parliament to get anything done. Call it what you like, a coalition, an alliance, a confidence and supply agreement, the maths dictate Labour would need to work with the DUP. "
No they wouldnt. The conservatives could agree to support a limited manifesto or give their MPs a free vote on legislation or agree to abstain from certain votes to keep the government functioning.
You dont need a majority to pass legislation, you just need more yeses than no's and theres different ways to make that happen.
The DUP are deserving of the criticism they are getting. And for all your criticism of Corbyn and the IRA statements over the last few weeks youve completely turned your back on your own statements now that it suits you. It just shows how disingenuous you were to keep highlighting Corbyns statements the last few weeks because you obviously meant none of it now that youre tolerating a DUP/conservative government. |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Corbyn was very clear on how Labour would approach Brexit negotiations on Marr earlier.
Once again, Labour's tanks are on the Tories' lawn. There is not a single sane person in the UK today who would favour negotiations being led by whatever coalition of nutbags May can scrape together, over the mature and statesmanlike team Corbyn can assemble. Negotiations work when dialogue is calm, measured and based around mutual respect. All qualities the population has been shown very clearly are almost entirely absent from the Conservatives at a senior level.
It wouldn't surprise me if Hammond jumped ship to Labour, to be honest. He must feel like the only adult in the room 95% of the time.
What a difference a couple of years makes.
I agree with you 100%"
Brexit has changed everything, there's no doubt about that. |
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"Hard BREXIT is off the table. Half the Conservative party doesn't support it, the Scottish Conservatives don't support it and it even turns out now that the DUP don't want it.
If the BTEXIT maniacs don't start compromising soon they could loos BREXIT altogether.
That's just not true. As Douglas Carswell writes in the press today, the DUP are broadly already in agreement with Theresa May's Brexit plan (DUP want to leave the EU but have a special deal on a frictionless N.Ireland border, which is what Theresa May's Brexit plan already stated to begin with). The EU want a special deal on the N.Ireland border as well so looks like consensus all round there. Douglas Carswell also points out that by some strange twist of fate the tories who lost their seats on Thursday were mostly Remain tories like Neil Carmichael, so the Leave tories influence in government has actually been strengthened and the remain tories influence weakened. Bolt on 10 DUP MP's who back Brexit and in many ways you have a more Brexit aligned government than we had before the general election.
You forget that the Scottish tories want single market access and the DUP also would prefer this.
Mrs may has to compromise to get this else she risks losing the backing of DUP and risks losing the tory gains made in Scotland who saved her yesterday.
The DUP have not said they want to stay in the single market. They just want a special deal for a frictionless N.Ireland border. It's possible to leave the single market and still do a deal on the border issue because the EU want a special deal on the N.Ireland border as well. "
There is no possibility of a frictionless border without a customs union to. That's why there was a manned border there in the first place. |
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"Soft Brexit is a contradiction in terms. The EU themselves have made it clear from day one and repeatedly since, that effectively there is only one kind of Brexit, a hard one.
They have said over and over that single market access goes with "freedom of movement" and that we cannot "cherry pick" the bit we like and leave the rest.
Since the main objective of Brexit voters is to curb immigration... you can see the problem Junkers warnings present for the negotiations.
Remain is made up of minority interests who have a very particular personal or private interest in supporting EU membership.
Theirs is each a very personal choice.
"
The Brexiters are different in that they are united in a single common aim which is the destruction of the British economy.
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"Soft Brexit is a contradiction in terms. The EU themselves have made it clear from day one and repeatedly since, that effectively there is only one kind of Brexit, a hard one.
They have said over and over that single market access goes with "freedom of movement" and that we cannot "cherry pick" the bit we like and leave the rest.
Since the main objective of Brexit voters is to curb immigration... you can see the problem Junkers warnings present for the negotiations.
Remain is made up of minority interests who have a very particular personal or private interest in supporting EU membership.
Theirs is each a very personal choice.
The Brexiters are different in that they are united in a single common aim.
You must be new on this forum then
There have been many arguments on here about whether Leavers all voted for the same reasons. Some people on here seem to think they all did. I don't understand that thinking as even on here the die-hard leavers all say different reasons.
Remain is a simple one. It is for the status quo. We know what that involves, how much it costs, and what terms we have and what benefit we get.
-Matt
No its not a stastus quo anymore than it has been from the last vote.
More members, more central control, eu army, single foreign policy etc etc "
Project fear, with the same lies, from BREXITers.
May asked the British people to give her a mandate for a hard BREXIT. They haven't given that mandate. Half the English Conservative party don't want a hard BREXIT, the DUP don't want a hard BREXIT and the Scottish Conservatives don't want a hard BREXIT.
The mad BREXITers can argue and spin all they like but, if they don't compromise now, the most likely outcome will be to ditch BREXIT all together. |
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"
In the letter Ms Foster said: “It is critical to our economy that our businesses, both indigenous and FDI companies, retain their competitiveness and do not incur additional costs.
Their economy / businesses can only retain competitiveness and not incur additional costs with free trade Centaur ........
I think you're being fact blind again
Where are the words 'single' and 'market' in that sentence?
She dosen't need to say "single market" she's saying they require not to incur additional costs, could that possibly mean tarrifs ? So free trade ,what does that entail ?
You don't have to be in the single market to have free trade. Theresa May's brexit plan states to leave the single market and the customs union and negotiate a comprehensive free trade agreement. "
That plan is dead. She went to the country with that plan and the country said NO. |
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Yes Brexit is basically set out by these main points....
1. End EU free movement and have full control of our borders and immigration policy (this can only be achieved by leaving the single market).
..... any you do mean that would mean a proper hard border would have to go up in ireland .....
you lose!!!!!! another election... you lose!!!
there is a school of thought that the EU and the irish government actually care more about northern ireland and the consequence of that than the hardline brexiteers living in lovely england who keep pushing for all this....
you are not doing much to dispell that notion......
You are completely selectively ignoring what Theresa May set out in her Brexit plan which stated a special deal on the N.Ireland border. You are also ignoring the fact we already have a special bilateral border deal with France called treaty of Le Touquet (same can be done with Ireland). You are also ignoring the fact the EU have said themselves they want a special deal on the N.Ireland border.
now you are parroting what you have no idea of....
Le Touquet works because they allow you to put uk borders on french territory.... and vice versa....
you do realise they are hard borders don't you.... when was the last time you went thru dover or the eurotunnel terminal?
Jeez you are slow tonight Fabio. Of course the terms of the Treaty of Le Touquet with France wouldn't be exactly the same as a deal on the N.Ireland border. I just gave the treaty of Le Touquet as an example and proof that a special bespoke deal can be done on border controls. The terms and requirements of a deal on the N.Ireland border would be completely different in relation to the unique circumstances there, but a special deal can be done as deals have already been done on border controls elsewhere. "
The key here is 'a deal on border controls'. You can only have a deal on border controls if you have border controls. A frictionless border, as now, has NO border controls.
It's not possible to have no border controls if you don't have the same customs, tariff and immigration controls on both sides of the border. That's a customs union and free movement at least between Northern Ireland and the republic and, unless we're going to have customs and immigration controls between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, a customs union and free movement between the UK and the Republic, which leads to the same with the EU.
Like everything else BREXIT, you've not thought this through. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
In the letter Ms Foster said: “It is critical to our economy that our businesses, both indigenous and FDI companies, retain their competitiveness and do not incur additional costs.
Their economy / businesses can only retain competitiveness and not incur additional costs with free trade Centaur ........
I think you're being fact blind again
Where are the words 'single' and 'market' in that sentence?
She dosen't need to say "single market" she's saying they require not to incur additional costs, could that possibly mean tarrifs ? So free trade ,what does that entail ?
You don't have to be in the single market to have free trade. Theresa May's brexit plan states to leave the single market and the customs union and negotiate a comprehensive free trade agreement.
That plan is dead. She went to the country with that plan and the country said NO."
Sorry, she got more votes than any other party. The country actually said YES |
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"
In the letter Ms Foster said: “It is critical to our economy that our businesses, both indigenous and FDI companies, retain their competitiveness and do not incur additional costs.
Their economy / businesses can only retain competitiveness and not incur additional costs with free trade Centaur ........
I think you're being fact blind again
Where are the words 'single' and 'market' in that sentence?
She dosen't need to say "single market" she's saying they require not to incur additional costs, could that possibly mean tarrifs ? So free trade ,what does that entail ?
You don't have to be in the single market to have free trade. Theresa May's brexit plan states to leave the single market and the customs union and negotiate a comprehensive free trade agreement.
That plan is dead. She went to the country with that plan and the country said NO.
Sorry, she got more votes than any other party. The country actually said YES"
Political reality. Spin as you like hard BREXIT is dead. If those that want BREXIT don't start compromising now any BREXIT will dead soon to.
|
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"
In the letter Ms Foster said: “It is critical to our economy that our businesses, both indigenous and FDI companies, retain their competitiveness and do not incur additional costs.
Their economy / businesses can only retain competitiveness and not incur additional costs with free trade Centaur ........
I think you're being fact blind again
Where are the words 'single' and 'market' in that sentence?
She dosen't need to say "single market" she's saying they require not to incur additional costs, could that possibly mean tarrifs ? So free trade ,what does that entail ?
You don't have to be in the single market to have free trade. Theresa May's brexit plan states to leave the single market and the customs union and negotiate a comprehensive free trade agreement.
That plan is dead. She went to the country with that plan and the country said NO."
The country said YES, conservatives WON the election. At the risk of sounding repetitive but you clearly don't seem to get it the conservatives WON the election with 318 seats. Got More votes than Margaret Thatcher ever got and a higher vote share than Tony Blair got. The Europhiles in the Tory Parliamentary party are a small minority of 4 or 5 trouble maker's whose voice has become smaller and weaker since the general election. Many of the Tory remainers lost their seats on Thursday. |
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"
In the letter Ms Foster said: “It is critical to our economy that our businesses, both indigenous and FDI companies, retain their competitiveness and do not incur additional costs.
Their economy / businesses can only retain competitiveness and not incur additional costs with free trade Centaur ........
I think you're being fact blind again
Where are the words 'single' and 'market' in that sentence?
She dosen't need to say "single market" she's saying they require not to incur additional costs, could that possibly mean tarrifs ? So free trade ,what does that entail ?
You don't have to be in the single market to have free trade. Theresa May's brexit plan states to leave the single market and the customs union and negotiate a comprehensive free trade agreement.
That plan is dead. She went to the country with that plan and the country said NO.
Sorry, she got more votes than any other party. The country actually said YES
Political reality. Spin as you like hard BREXIT is dead. If those that want BREXIT don't start compromising now any BREXIT will dead soon to.
"
Says the man who voted Lib dem who got a pathetic 8% of the overall vote to remain in the EU. It's Remain that is dead. |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"
In the letter Ms Foster said: “It is critical to our economy that our businesses, both indigenous and FDI companies, retain their competitiveness and do not incur additional costs.
Their economy / businesses can only retain competitiveness and not incur additional costs with free trade Centaur ........
I think you're being fact blind again
Where are the words 'single' and 'market' in that sentence?
She dosen't need to say "single market" she's saying they require not to incur additional costs, could that possibly mean tarrifs ? So free trade ,what does that entail ?
You don't have to be in the single market to have free trade. Theresa May's brexit plan states to leave the single market and the customs union and negotiate a comprehensive free trade agreement.
That plan is dead. She went to the country with that plan and the country said NO.
The country said YES, conservatives WON the election. At the risk of sounding repetitive but you clearly don't seem to get it the conservatives WON the election with 318 seats. Got More votes than Margaret Thatcher ever got and a higher vote share than Tony Blair got. The Europhiles in the Tory Parliamentary party are a small minority of 4 or 5 trouble maker's whose voice has become smaller and weaker since the general election. Many of the Tory remainers lost their seats on Thursday. "
This is what happens when people who don't understand politics talk about politics. |
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"
In the letter Ms Foster said: “It is critical to our economy that our businesses, both indigenous and FDI companies, retain their competitiveness and do not incur additional costs.
Their economy / businesses can only retain competitiveness and not incur additional costs with free trade Centaur ........
I think you're being fact blind again
Where are the words 'single' and 'market' in that sentence?
She dosen't need to say "single market" she's saying they require not to incur additional costs, could that possibly mean tarrifs ? So free trade ,what does that entail ?
You don't have to be in the single market to have free trade. Theresa May's brexit plan states to leave the single market and the customs union and negotiate a comprehensive free trade agreement.
That plan is dead. She went to the country with that plan and the country said NO.
Sorry, she got more votes than any other party. The country actually said YES
Political reality. Spin as you like hard BREXIT is dead. If those that want BREXIT don't start compromising now any BREXIT will dead soon to.
Says the man who voted Lib dem who got a pathetic 8% of the overall vote to remain in the EU. It's Remain that is dead. "
You make me laugh. I know the figures, I know the Conservatives won. Unlike you I also know politics. "No deal is better than a bad deal" is dead thus a hard BREXIT is dead already. When the deal, whatever it is, is done and it's obvious that it's much worse than what we have now, BREXIT will be dead to. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
You make me laugh. I know the figures, I know the Conservatives won. Unlike you I also know politics. "No deal is better than a bad deal" is dead thus a hard BREXIT is dead already. When the deal, whatever it is, is done and it's obvious that it's much worse than what we have now, BREXIT will be dead to."
If anything its gonna be an interesting period |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
As much as I hate the idea of leaving the EU, half of the damage is done now, another referendum, if people voted remain, wouldn't fix the problem.
There is barely anyone left trying to argue that Brexit will be in any way positive anymore, but turning back isn't nessesarily the answer.
We need a new strategy to limit the damage for the country for future generations. I don't know what the answer is, but hard brexit or another refarendum are both disasterous paths to go down. |
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