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Tory Manifesto
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"What even are their demographic now? The upper class, middle class, working class? I thought that for the next 5 years at least anyone under a six figure salary is likely to be punched in ghe stomach one way or another" the over 65's, specifically the baby boomers | |||
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"Not seen the Tory manifesto... Why? After all it is they called the election so it would seem reasonable to me that their manifesto would be the first prepared and published... Could it be that they were waiting to see the Labour and Liberal manifestos to work out what to say and offer?" read the broadsheets ... they're rolling the story now ... they're taking one hell of a risk ... mind you, all the freelance inheritance tax adviser's appointment books will be filling up nicely .... kerching! | |||
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"Means testing of winter fuel allowance is likely to feature." Something ALL the other parties have been calling for from the sidelines but not had the bottle to actually put forward. | |||
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" There seems little reason not to vote Labour and see how nationalisation, increased wages and living standards works out for a few years?" Lol, you're funny  | |||
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"I think the people on the right side of this board are going to have to fixate on brexit... because the bit on how they are going to fund social care is going to take a hammering... Basically instead of paying for it whilst alive the estate will pay after you die... be interesting to see how the mail and express spin that... Also taking away free lunches and giving free breakfast instead doesn't really deal with kids poverty issues either.... I think this election just got closer " You also though Hillary Clinton was a dead cert to win the Presidency  | |||
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"Wow,,, so the Tories idea of sorting out social care is not to help us, but to make us all pay for our own care!! This is shocking!!! Shall we call it a dementia tax, a cancer tax, a stroke tax?? Even thatcher didn't go this far " And where in the manifesto does it say that? | |||
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"There is no better measure for a civilized society than how you treat the children within it." That would be it's prisoners. | |||
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"There is no better measure for a civilized society than how you treat the children within it. That would be it's prisoners. " The electorate couldnt give a toss about prisoners. But punish kids and the disabled and the vulnerable and you reap what you sow. | |||
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"the press are running articles on what the manifesto contains and it seems to be that the torys are going to give they core demographic a kicking
.... risky "You beat me to it.. Tory Manifesto. Oh my.. I bet all those who attacked us when we bogged up the Labour Manifesto are having second thoughts now. One positive.. at least they're being honest for once. "Those tiny tidbits we promised you to get voted in.. you can forget all that.. oh and by the way.. just stand over there in that field whilst i run you over with this muck spreader!" I don't stand to lose from that manifesto.. because I think they've squeezed my demographic to maximum breaking point"Which they're aware of. Corbyn is gathering momentum as more people start to hope and dream again. Probably nowhere near enough to win.. but i think Theresa May.. just handed him a lot more momentum and a more realistic shot at the title. Absolute madness! If we vote Conservative this time round.. after all this.. I'm emigrating as soon as my children are old enough to choose their own path. Till then I'm stuck here out of love. | |||
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"Wow,,, so the Tories idea of sorting out social care is not to help us, but to make us all pay for our own care!! This is shocking!!! Shall we call it a dementia tax, a cancer tax, a stroke tax?? Even thatcher didn't go this far And where in the manifesto does it say that?" They have said in effect they are going to make everyone pay for their own care... so if at the moment you decide to look after the person at home.. you are now going to in effect have a levy placed on you... So where for example those with cancer, or dementia, or stroke who have always been more comfortable in home care surroundings now would have that levy applied to them... For example in my own personal case with my mum who died of cancer.. she wanted to stay at home and only went into a hospice a week before she passed away They would be now charged that levy or tax | |||
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"Wow,,, so the Tories idea of sorting out social care is not to help us, but to make us all pay for our own care!! This is shocking!!! Shall we call it a dementia tax, a cancer tax, a stroke tax?? Even thatcher didn't go this far And where in the manifesto does it say that?" Anyone with ""assets"" over £100.000 will pay toward their own social care,, not many houses going for less?? And assets means savings or that nice vase that was left in a will? Let's not just take a persons dignity let's all take thier possessions too? | |||
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"Wow,,, so the Tories idea of sorting out social care is not to help us, but to make us all pay for our own care!! This is shocking!!! Shall we call it a dementia tax, a cancer tax, a stroke tax?? Even thatcher didn't go this far And where in the manifesto does it say that? Anyone with ""assets"" over £100.000 will pay toward their own social care,, not many houses going for less?? And assets means savings or that nice vase that was left in a will? Let's not just take a persons dignity let's all take thier possessions too? " And people don't have to pay now then? | |||
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"Wow,,, so the Tories idea of sorting out social care is not to help us, but to make us all pay for our own care!! This is shocking!!! Shall we call it a dementia tax, a cancer tax, a stroke tax?? Even thatcher didn't go this far And where in the manifesto does it say that? Anyone with ""assets"" over £100.000 will pay toward their own social care,, not many houses going for less?? And assets means savings or that nice vase that was left in a will? Let's not just take a persons dignity let's all take thier possessions too? And people don't have to pay now then?" Again... not if you are already looking after someone at home....  | |||
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"Where are all the tory supporters. Cone on guys spin it." They are to busy getting ideas of labour lol. | |||
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"Must admit I've found the whole pension/care issue fascinating. I have a rather unusual outlook and will obviously be flamed for it but here goes..... Pensions and care has to change. When they came in, people seldom lived very long into pensionable age and there weren't too many long term medications available. Nowadays, people are often living over 30 years past retirement and many of them on long term expensive medication to keep them healthy/alive. For how long could we keep absorbing that cost? Same with the cost of care. The pension and retirement age has to rise for that reason. New ways to pay for care need to be found. I don't necessarily think this is the best way but we really can't carry on pretending that we can afford it as is. What should we do? " So if you had the choice between raising the corporation tax to 30% as it was between '97 and 2008 when the economy and businesses did great, or cutting care to pensioners and forcing people to work into their 70's you'd choose cutting care and raising the pension age? Why is that in the best interests of the people? | |||
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"Margaret Thatcher was know as the 'milk snatcher'. Theresa May will go down in history as the lunch snatcher.There is no better measure for a civilized society than how you treat the children within it.Its quite refreshing to see the tories show their true colours.Its been calculated that free school meals saved parents £450 a year.Which parents will vote for this.None.Tories are hemaroraging votes..." How many elections did Thatcher lose? It's not big brothers job to feed your kids. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. | |||
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"Where are all the tory supporters. Cone on guys spin it." Ill have a go  She is levelling the playing field. She is trying to steal Labour votes by saying nobody is protected where Labour is protecting all with the triple lock - the well off pensioners being typically pro Tory. By making everybody equal across £100k social care or means testing fuel allowances, she is trying to appeal to voters that see a sector getting a free deal.
By taxing businesses employing non UK nationals she is saying employ UK workers; an emphasis toward Brexit voters, creating more jobs?
There has just been a little more scrutiny on the manifesto and the foreign aid budget has been re-worded and is no longer protected. Instead this will now include UK projects. | |||
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"Margaret Thatcher was know as the 'milk snatcher'. Theresa May will go down in history as the lunch snatcher.There is no better measure for a civilized society than how you treat the children within it.Its quite refreshing to see the tories show their true colours.Its been calculated that free school meals saved parents £450 a year.Which parents will vote for this.None.Tories are hemaroraging votes... How many elections did Thatcher lose? It's not big brothers job to feed your kids. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. " I think a Tory just popped up? | |||
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"Must admit I've found the whole pension/care issue fascinating. I have a rather unusual outlook and will obviously be flamed for it but here goes..... Pensions and care has to change. When they came in, people seldom lived very long into pensionable age and there weren't too many long term medications available. Nowadays, people are often living over 30 years past retirement and many of them on long term expensive medication to keep them healthy/alive. For how long could we keep absorbing that cost? Same with the cost of care. The pension and retirement age has to rise for that reason. New ways to pay for care need to be found. I don't necessarily think this is the best way but we really can't carry on pretending that we can afford it as is. What should we do? " Or have an upper age limit, past which there was compulsory euthanasia. Whilst we are about it, let's stop wasting money keeping premature babies alive. Remove the ban on hunting with dogs, and allow for the unemployed to be included as quarry... #properTorypolicies | |||
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"Where are all the tory supporters. Cone on guys spin it. Ill have a go She is levelling the playing field. She is trying to steal Labour votes by saying nobody is protected where Labour is protecting all with the triple lock - the well off pensioners being typically pro Tory. By making everybody equal across £100k social care or means testing fuel allowances, she is trying to appeal to voters that see a sector getting a free deal.
By taxing businesses employing non UK nationals she is saying employ UK workers; an emphasis toward Brexit voters, creating more jobs?
There has just been a little more scrutiny on the manifesto and the foreign aid budget has been re-worded and is no longer protected. Instead this will now include UK projects. "As far as the brexit voters go I think she is as blinkered as some of the old immigration arguments in here,, most leave voters that had a problem with immigration felt that it was having a strain on the nhs, social care and education, something this manifesto has thrown to the wolves!! Again she's got it totally wrong!!! | |||
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"Must admit I've found the whole pension/care issue fascinating. I have a rather unusual outlook and will obviously be flamed for it but here goes..... Pensions and care has to change. When they came in, people seldom lived very long into pensionable age and there weren't too many long term medications available. Nowadays, people are often living over 30 years past retirement and many of them on long term expensive medication to keep them healthy/alive. For how long could we keep absorbing that cost? Same with the cost of care. The pension and retirement age has to rise for that reason. New ways to pay for care need to be found. I don't necessarily think this is the best way but we really can't carry on pretending that we can afford it as is. What should we do? Or have an upper age limit, past which there was compulsory euthanasia. Whilst we are about it, let's stop wasting money keeping premature babies alive. Remove the ban on hunting with dogs, and allow for the unemployed to be included as quarry... #properTorypolicies"  | |||
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" So if you had the choice between raising the corporation tax to 30% as it was between '97 and 2008 when the economy and businesses did great, or cutting care to pensioners and forcing people to work into their 70's you'd choose cutting care and raising the pension age? Why is that in the best interests of the people?" If you up corporation tax they will find more ways to avoid or evade or they will leave. Or maybe cut the number of people they employ. There is a bizarre belief that companies will just suck up tax rises and carry on without change. I doubt that. And all those extra unemployed people are not in our best interests either. Education is free til 16 unless one chooses to pay. Then work for less than 50 years before spending 30 or more years costing society money. We could afford it when people died fairly soon after retirement. We cannot afford it now people live so long. It HAS to change. Why should the cost be shouldered by those who actually create employment and already pay large amounts of tax? Lots of 65 year olds are perfectly fit. As I said, it's not a popular view but I am being very honest. The cost to the government in pensions and NHS use by the elderly is massive. It seems obvious they should contribute more or work longer. | |||
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"Where are all the tory supporters. Cone on guys spin it. Ill have a go She is levelling the playing field. She is trying to steal Labour votes by saying nobody is protected where Labour is protecting all with the triple lock - the well off pensioners being typically pro Tory. By making everybody equal across £100k social care or means testing fuel allowances, she is trying to appeal to voters that see a sector getting a free deal.
By taxing businesses employing non UK nationals she is saying employ UK workers; an emphasis toward Brexit voters, creating more jobs?
There has just been a little more scrutiny on the manifesto and the foreign aid budget has been re-worded and is no longer protected. Instead this will now include UK projects.
As far as the brexit voters go I think she is as blinkered as some of the old immigration arguments in here,, most leave voters that had a problem with immigration felt that it was having a strain on the nhs, social care and education, something this manifesto has thrown to the wolves!!
Again she's got it totally wrong!!! "None of that makes any sense! | |||
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"Where are all the tory supporters. Cone on guys spin it. Ill have a go She is levelling the playing field. She is trying to steal Labour votes by saying nobody is protected where Labour is protecting all with the triple lock - the well off pensioners being typically pro Tory. By making everybody equal across £100k social care or means testing fuel allowances, she is trying to appeal to voters that see a sector getting a free deal.
By taxing businesses employing non UK nationals she is saying employ UK workers; an emphasis toward Brexit voters, creating more jobs?
There has just been a little more scrutiny on the manifesto and the foreign aid budget has been re-worded and is no longer protected. Instead this will now include UK projects.
As far as the brexit voters go I think she is as blinkered as some of the old immigration arguments in here,, most leave voters that had a problem with immigration felt that it was having a strain on the nhs, social care and education, something this manifesto has thrown to the wolves!!
Again she's got it totally wrong!!!
None of that makes any sense!"She is so obviously taking advise from focus groups or other parties, totally removed from the issues surrounding everyday life and which has affected done peoples lives for years, no funding and no where to turn,,, which now she is making a lot worse by the measures she's putting in??? I wonder if corbyn has stopped laughing yet?? | |||
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" Or have an upper age limit, past which there was compulsory euthanasia. Whilst we are about it, let's stop wasting money keeping premature babies alive. Remove the ban on hunting with dogs, and allow for the unemployed to be included as quarry... #properTorypolicies" Nice bit of reductio ad absurdum. Makes you look clever... Obviously never going to happen. Babies grow up to become working members of society for a start so keeping them alive is an investment. Euthanasia as policy would be a new view but very effective. Maybe we could make it a rule that you work or get euthanized after, say, 15 years of pension? No, thought not. So we need a new way. As for hunting the unemployed, if the hunt pay to employ them as a target then they're not unemployed any more. Sounds a great idea. A silly answer to a silly statement. Let's have some sense in this debate. My original points have validity.... | |||
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"Wow,,, so the Tories idea of sorting out social care is not to help us, but to make us all pay for our own care!! This is shocking!!! Shall we call it a dementia tax, a cancer tax, a stroke tax?? Even thatcher didn't go this far " But we'd all be paying for it anyway. The problem with Labours plans to renationalise everything is that it is the taxpayer who foots the bill. As is the case with the NHS, Out of work benefits, disability benefits and so on. The more that the state pays for, the more tax a government has to raise, and that means you and I hand over more of our hard earned. Personally I prefer to pay for what I need and use. I'm surprised that the insurance industry hasn't come up with dementure care packages. | |||
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"Wow,,, so the Tories idea of sorting out social care is not to help us, but to make us all pay for our own care!! This is shocking!!! Shall we call it a dementia tax, a cancer tax, a stroke tax?? Even thatcher didn't go this far But we'd all be paying for it anyway. The problem with Labours plans to renationalise everything is that it is the taxpayer who foots the bill. As is the case with the NHS, Out of work benefits, disability benefits and so on. The more that the state pays for, the more tax a government has to raise, and that means you and I hand over more of our hard earned. Personally I prefer to pay for what I need and use. " As opposed to socialists who want you to pay for what they need and use " I'm surprised that the insurance industry hasn't come up with dementure care packages." | |||
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"Wow,,, so the Tories idea of sorting out social care is not to help us, but to make us all pay for our own care!! This is shocking!!! Shall we call it a dementia tax, a cancer tax, a stroke tax?? Even thatcher didn't go this far But we'd all be paying for it anyway. The problem with Labours plans to renationalise everything is that it is the taxpayer who foots the bill. As is the case with the NHS, Out of work benefits, disability benefits and so on. The more that the state pays for, the more tax a government has to raise, and that means you and I hand over more of our hard earned. Personally I prefer to pay for what I need and use. As opposed to socialists who want you to pay for what they need and use I'm surprised that the insurance industry hasn't come up with dementure care packages." Keep digging?? | |||
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" The more that the state pays for, the more tax a government has to raise, and that means you and I hand over more of our hard earned. Personally I prefer to pay for what I need and use. As opposed to socialists who want you to pay for what they need and use I'm surprised that the insurance industry hasn't come up with dementure care packages. Keep digging?? " I guess in a nutshell there's the difference. Either the selfish, I'm all right jack approach. If you can afford it, you get care/treatment/services, but if you can't afford it you don't. Or the Socialist approach of everyone putting into the pot according to their ability, and taking out according to their needs. Yes this is open to some abuse, either in putting in (tax avoidance) or taking out. But on the whole I think it leads to a "nicer" society. | |||
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" So if you had the choice between raising the corporation tax to 30% as it was between '97 and 2008 when the economy and businesses did great, or cutting care to pensioners and forcing people to work into their 70's you'd choose cutting care and raising the pension age? Why is that in the best interests of the people? If you up corporation tax they will find more ways to avoid or evade or they will leave. Or maybe cut the number of people they employ. There is a bizarre belief that companies will just suck up tax rises and carry on without change. I doubt that. And all those extra unemployed people are not in our best interests either. Education is free til 16 unless one chooses to pay. Then work for less than 50 years before spending 30 or more years costing society money. We could afford it when people died fairly soon after retirement. We cannot afford it now people live so long. It HAS to change. Why should the cost be shouldered by those who actually create employment and already pay large amounts of tax? Lots of 65 year olds are perfectly fit. As I said, it's not a popular view but I am being very honest. The cost to the government in pensions and NHS use by the elderly is massive. It seems obvious they should contribute more or work longer. " But the flaw in your argument is that the corporation tax has already been at 30% recently, for over a decade and the economy was thriving, businesses were successful and employment was high. If the only argument against raising the corporation tax is that it would damage the economy then how can you argue that the economy was worse in 2004? | |||
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" Or have an upper age limit, past which there was compulsory euthanasia. Whilst we are about it, let's stop wasting money keeping premature babies alive. Remove the ban on hunting with dogs, and allow for the unemployed to be included as quarry... #properTorypolicies Nice bit of reductio ad absurdum. Makes you look clever... Obviously never going to happen. Babies grow up to become working members of society for a start so keeping them alive is an investment. Euthanasia as policy would be a new view but very effective. Maybe we could make it a rule that you work or get euthanized after, say, 15 years of pension? No, thought not. So we need a new way. As for hunting the unemployed, if the hunt pay to employ them as a target then they're not unemployed any more. Sounds a great idea. A silly answer to a silly statement. Let's have some sense in this debate. My original points have validity.... " Yes, it was intentionally silly/tongue in cheek. However, I think you are looking on the wrong side of the issue for the solution. There needs to be some control on spending obviously, and NICE is a good example of this. The reality is that on paper the system could afford spending at present (and beyond) levels. IF we instituted proper collection of what is due, and taxed at appropriate levels. Even Nationalisation could add to the pot. Rather than our rail system (in part) subsidising the German public transport systems, it could be used on ours... | |||
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" The more that the state pays for, the more tax a government has to raise, and that means you and I hand over more of our hard earned. Personally I prefer to pay for what I need and use. As opposed to socialists who want you to pay for what they need and use I'm surprised that the insurance industry hasn't come up with dementure care packages. Keep digging?? I guess in a nutshell there's the difference. Either the selfish, I'm all right jack approach. If you can afford it, you get care/treatment/services, but if you can't afford it you don't. Or the Socialist approach of everyone putting into the pot according to their ability, and taking out according to their needs. Yes this is open to some abuse, either in putting in (tax avoidance) or taking out. But on the whole I think it leads to a "nicer" society." History shows it leads to a financially bankrupt society. Most people are not at the extremes of the horse in animal farm who will work their ass off for the great good, nor are most people lazy scroungers. Most people respond to incentivisation and socialism kills all the incentives to do more than the minimum. Most people are reciprocally altruistic, there simply aren't enough purely altruistic humans to make a socialist society work. Maybe when AI takes off it could happen. | |||
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" Or have an upper age limit, past which there was compulsory euthanasia. Whilst we are about it, let's stop wasting money keeping premature babies alive. Remove the ban on hunting with dogs, and allow for the unemployed to be included as quarry... #properTorypolicies Nice bit of reductio ad absurdum. Makes you look clever... Obviously never going to happen. Babies grow up to become working members of society for a start so keeping them alive is an investment. Euthanasia as policy would be a new view but very effective. Maybe we could make it a rule that you work or get euthanized after, say, 15 years of pension? No, thought not. So we need a new way. As for hunting the unemployed, if the hunt pay to employ them as a target then they're not unemployed any more. Sounds a great idea. A silly answer to a silly statement. Let's have some sense in this debate. My original points have validity.... Yes, it was intentionally silly/tongue in cheek. However, I think you are looking on the wrong side of the issue for the solution. There needs to be some control on spending obviously, and NICE is a good example of this. The reality is that on paper the system could afford spending at present (and beyond) levels. IF we instituted proper collection of what is due, and taxed at appropriate levels. " The 1997 labour manifesto explicitly mentions collecting a tax gap which is really a very similar to what is it today. Do you honestly believe that it is collectable even though nobody has collected it in at least years? Second, we are not going to have interest rates at this level forever, the long term average is 5.5%. If our national debt had even 3% interest we would spend more on debt interest each year than the NHS - does that honestly sound like good socialism to you? " Even Nationalisation could add to the pot. Rather than our rail system (in part) subsidising the German public transport systems, it could be used on ours... " | |||
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" It's not big brothers job to feed your kids. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. " see i normally really respect what you say... but that last bit angers me in that the fact is in effect you are punishing the innocent child for the decisions made by their parents.... i am not going to punish a small child and take away food from them because of mom and/or dad | |||
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" It's not big brothers job to feed your kids. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. " Or use condoms. | |||
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" It's not big brothers job to feed your kids. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. see i normally really respect what you say... but that last bit angers me in that the fact is in effect you are punishing the innocent child for the decisions made by their parents.... i am not going to punish a small child and take away food from them because of mom and/or dad " Children from poorer families will still get free breakfast and free hot lunch, that is the policy. The rest of parents are more than capable of feeding their own children. | |||
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"Margaret Thatcher was know as the 'milk snatcher'. Theresa May will go down in history as the lunch snatcher.There is no better measure for a civilized society than how you treat the children within it.Its quite refreshing to see the tories show their true colours.Its been calculated that free school meals saved parents £450 a year.Which parents will vote for this.None.Tories are hemaroraging votes... How many elections did Thatcher lose? It's not big brothers job to feed your kids. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. " The liberal mask had to slip sometime. . | |||
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"Margaret Thatcher was know as the 'milk snatcher'. Theresa May will go down in history as the lunch snatcher.There is no better measure for a civilized society than how you treat the children within it.Its quite refreshing to see the tories show their true colours.Its been calculated that free school meals saved parents £450 a year.Which parents will vote for this.None.Tories are hemaroraging votes... How many elections did Thatcher lose? It's not big brothers job to feed your kids. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. The liberal mask had to slip sometime. . "There's nothing liberal about asking the state to raise your kids for you. What else do you want the state to do - come give your kids a shower in the morning? | |||
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" It's not big brothers job to feed your kids. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. see i normally really respect what you say... but that last bit angers me in that the fact is in effect you are punishing the innocent child for the decisions made by their parents.... i am not going to punish a small child and take away food from them because of mom and/or dad Children from poorer families will still get free breakfast and free hot lunch, that is the policy. The rest of parents are more than capable of feeding their own children. " no... the ACTUAL policy is to remove universal lunch for primary ages children and to replace it with universal breakfast for children of primary age instead.... they are swapping one for the other because in effect "cereals cost less!!!" which means that if it was what you wanted they wouldn't offer either to those poor and JAM's as Teresa likes to call them.... | |||
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" It's not big brothers job to feed your kids. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. see i normally really respect what you say... but that last bit angers me in that the fact is in effect you are punishing the innocent child for the decisions made by their parents.... i am not going to punish a small child and take away food from them because of mom and/or dad Children from poorer families will still get free breakfast and free hot lunch, that is the policy. The rest of parents are more than capable of feeding their own children. no... the ACTUAL policy is to remove universal lunch for primary ages children and to replace it with universal breakfast for children of primary age instead.... they are swapping one for the other because in effect "cereals cost less!!!" which means that if it was what you wanted they wouldn't offer either to those poor and JAM's as Teresa likes to call them...." So you'd rather see kids spend half the day at school feeling hungry? | |||
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"Margaret Thatcher was know as the 'milk snatcher'. Theresa May will go down in history as the lunch snatcher.There is no better measure for a civilized society than how you treat the children within it.Its quite refreshing to see the tories show their true colours.Its been calculated that free school meals saved parents £450 a year.Which parents will vote for this.None.Tories are hemaroraging votes... How many elections did Thatcher lose? It's not big brothers job to feed your kids. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. The liberal mask had to slip sometime. .
There's nothing liberal about asking the state to raise your kids for you. What else do you want the state to do - come give your kids a shower in the morning? "Since when is a hot meal raising kids...The expression it takes a village to raise a child has always been true.Its called society.But you wouldn't understand. I get it.. | |||
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" It's not big brothers job to feed your kids. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. see i normally really respect what you say... but that last bit angers me in that the fact is in effect you are punishing the innocent child for the decisions made by their parents.... i am not going to punish a small child and take away food from them because of mom and/or dad Children from poorer families will still get free breakfast and free hot lunch, that is the policy. The rest of parents are more than capable of feeding their own children. no... the ACTUAL policy is to remove universal lunch for primary ages children and to replace it with universal breakfast for children of primary age instead.... they are swapping one for the other because in effect "cereals cost less!!!" which means that if it was what you wanted they wouldn't offer either to those poor and JAM's as Teresa likes to call them...." "The Tories said children from poorer families would continue to get free hot lunches – as well as free breakfasts – throughout their education" Source: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nick-clegg-conservative-school-funding-cuts-children-lose-free-hot-lunches-election-2017-tory-a7742131.html%3Famp | |||
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" It's not big brothers job to feed your kids. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. see i normally really respect what you say... but that last bit angers me in that the fact is in effect you are punishing the innocent child for the decisions made by their parents.... i am not going to punish a small child and take away food from them because of mom and/or dad Children from poorer families will still get free breakfast and free hot lunch, that is the policy. The rest of parents are more than capable of feeding their own children. no... the ACTUAL policy is to remove universal lunch for primary ages children and to replace it with universal breakfast for children of primary age instead.... they are swapping one for the other because in effect "cereals cost less!!!" which means that if it was what you wanted they wouldn't offer either to those poor and JAM's as Teresa likes to call them.... "The Tories said children from poorer families would continue to get free hot lunches – as well as free breakfasts – throughout their education" Source: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nick-clegg-conservative-school-funding-cuts-children-lose-free-hot-lunches-election-2017-tory-a7742131.html%3Famp" And may want to cut child benefits too. | |||
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"Margaret Thatcher was know as the 'milk snatcher'. Theresa May will go down in history as the lunch snatcher.There is no better measure for a civilized society than how you treat the children within it.Its quite refreshing to see the tories show their true colours.Its been calculated that free school meals saved parents £450 a year.Which parents will vote for this.None.Tories are hemaroraging votes... How many elections did Thatcher lose? It's not big brothers job to feed your kids. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. The liberal mask had to slip sometime. .
There's nothing liberal about asking the state to raise your kids for you. What else do you want the state to do - come give your kids a shower in the morning? Since when is a hot meal raising kids...The expression it takes a village to raise a child has always been true.Its called society.But you wouldn't understand. I get it.. "Providing food for your children is one of the most fundamental roles a parent can have. The expression "putting food on the table" has always been true. But you wouldn't understand. I get it. | |||
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" So you'd rather see kids spend half the day at school feeling hungry?" so rather than argue the policy you want to argue the pandant in which meal is more needed? and that says it all........l.....
ladies and gents.. i give you the spin from the right!!!
in most schools... breakfast clubs tend to be cereal... in most schools, lunch tends to be a hot meal which has to comply to certain nutitional standards....
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" So you'd rather see kids spend half the day at school feeling hungry? so rather than argue the policy you want to argue the pandant in which meal is more needed? and that says it all........l.....
ladies and gents.. i give you the spin from the right!!!
in most schools... breakfast clubs tend to be cereal... in most schools, lunch tends to be a hot meal which has to comply to certain nutitional standards....
"Do you think food stamps are prederable to 100% cash payments for low income families _abio? Genuinely interested in your opinion given you've lived in both systems. | |||
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" So you'd rather see kids spend half the day at school feeling hungry? so rather than argue the policy you want to argue the pandant in which meal is more needed? and that says it all........l.....
ladies and gents.. i give you the spin from the right!!!
in most schools... breakfast clubs tend to be cereal... in most schools, lunch tends to be a hot meal which has to comply to certain nutitional standards....
"That is not spin from the right, it is common sense. And maybe read the manifesto properly instead of spinning it from the losing left | |||
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" So you'd rather see kids spend half the day at school feeling hungry? so rather than argue the policy you want to argue the pandant in which meal is more needed? and that says it all........l.....
ladies and gents.. i give you the spin from the right!!!
in most schools... breakfast clubs tend to be cereal... in most schools, lunch tends to be a hot meal which has to comply to certain nutitional standards....
Do you think food stamps are prederable to 100% cash payments for low income families _abio? Genuinely interested in your opinion given you've lived in both systems. "i'd rather that money intended for children not go toward booze and fags lets put it that way.... food stamps in part work but don't help toward childrens clothing needs for example.. i am really more of a european type "social democrat" than anything else so there are child policies i do agree with... such as scaling back child benefit payments the more children someone has...... | |||
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"Margaret Thatcher was know as the 'milk snatcher'. Theresa May will go down in history as the lunch snatcher.There is no better measure for a civilized society than how you treat the children within it.Its quite refreshing to see the tories show their true colours.Its been calculated that free school meals saved parents £450 a year.Which parents will vote for this.None.Tories are hemaroraging votes... How many elections did Thatcher lose? It's not big brothers job to feed your kids. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. The liberal mask had to slip sometime. .
There's nothing liberal about asking the state to raise your kids for you. What else do you want the state to do - come give your kids a shower in the morning? Since when is a hot meal raising kids...The expression it takes a village to raise a child has always been true.Its called society.But you wouldn't understand. I get it..
Providing food for your children is one of the most fundamental roles a parent can have. The expression "putting food on the table" has always been true. But you wouldn't understand. I get it. "Nah you dont your commemt clarified all i needed to know .Keep digging. | |||
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" And maybe read the manifesto properly instead of spinning it from the losing left" so please tell me what part of the policy of replacing breakfast for lunch did i get wrong? please tell....... | |||
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"Margaret Thatcher was know as the 'milk snatcher'. Theresa May will go down in history as the lunch snatcher.There is no better measure for a civilized society than how you treat the children within it.Its quite refreshing to see the tories show their true colours.Its been calculated that free school meals saved parents £450 a year.Which parents will vote for this.None.Tories are hemaroraging votes... How many elections did Thatcher lose? It's not big brothers job to feed your kids. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. The liberal mask had to slip sometime. .
There's nothing liberal about asking the state to raise your kids for you. What else do you want the state to do - come give your kids a shower in the morning? Since when is a hot meal raising kids...The expression it takes a village to raise a child has always been true.Its called society.But you wouldn't understand. I get it..
Providing food for your children is one of the most fundamental roles a parent can have. The expression "putting food on the table" has always been true. But you wouldn't understand. I get it. Nah you dont your commemt clarified all i needed to know .Keep digging. "Ok how about you clarify where you believe the boundary between the state and parents responsibilities should be? I guinely don't see where the states responsibily ends in some world views. | |||
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" So you'd rather see kids spend half the day at school feeling hungry? so rather than argue the policy you want to argue the pandant in which meal is more needed? and that says it all........l.....
ladies and gents.. i give you the spin from the right!!!
in most schools... breakfast clubs tend to be cereal... in most schools, lunch tends to be a hot meal which has to comply to certain nutitional standards....
Do you think food stamps are prederable to 100% cash payments for low income families _abio? Genuinely interested in your opinion given you've lived in both systems.
i'd rather that money intended for children not go toward booze and fags lets put it that way.... food stamps in part work but don't help toward childrens clothing needs for example..
i am really more of a european type "social democrat" than anything else so there are child policies i do agree with... such as scaling back child benefit payments the more children someone has......"Can't really any difference with my own views in that... | |||
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" And maybe read the manifesto properly instead of spinning it from the losing left so please tell me what part of the policy of replacing breakfast for lunch did i get wrong? please tell......." The poorest kids will get free breakfast AND lunch. And the breakfast will be provided for all kids up to the age of 11. So that's infants and juniors. What's wrong with that? | |||
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"Means testing of winter fuel allowance is likely to feature. Something ALL the other parties have been calling for from the sidelines but not had the bottle to actually put forward." actually she had proposed going a lot further than what labour ever did... just because my work is with pensions and pensioners.... when she is proposing is that winter fuel payments are taken away from everyone except those who get pension credit... yes rich pensioners we can all agree... yes those pensioners living abroad we can agree.... she is taking it away from everyone except the poorest... just making you aware....... | |||
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"so they take away free milk, free school meal and replace it with a slice of toast!! this is just a policy to get rid of kids in the morning so the state can lookbafter them, and people can work longer. getting rid of more family time. no doubt some will fall for it" The demise of free school milk was started back in 1968 by Labour PM Harold Wilson. | |||
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According to YouGov, this is how the population feels:
45% hard brexiters
22% hard remainers
23% voted remain but believe we should leave because of the vote
9% don't know / thick
She is most in line with the general population on this issue. | |||
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"Since everyone has forgotten about the pesky deficit and debt, this election is really about brexit
According to YouGov, this is how the population feels:
45% hard brexiters
22% hard remainers
23% voted remain but believe we should leave because of the vote
9% don't know / thick
She is most in line with the general population on this issue. "Polls... | |||
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"Since everyone has forgotten about the pesky deficit and debt, this election is really about brexit
According to YouGov, this is how the population feels:
45% hard brexiters
22% hard remainers
23% voted remain but believe we should leave because of the vote
9% don't know / thick
She is most in line with the general population on this issue. Polls... "It says im in the minority so it must be right | |||
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"Must admit I've found the whole pension/care issue fascinating. I have a rather unusual outlook and will obviously be flamed for it but here goes..... Pensions and care has to change. When they came in, people seldom lived very long into pensionable age and there weren't too many long term medications available. Nowadays, people are often living over 30 years past retirement and many of them on long term expensive medication to keep them healthy/alive. For how long could we keep absorbing that cost? Same with the cost of care. The pension and retirement age has to rise for that reason. New ways to pay for care need to be found. I don't necessarily think this is the best way but we really can't carry on pretending that we can afford it as is. What should we do? So if you had the choice between raising the corporation tax to 30% as it was between '97 and 2008 when the economy and businesses did great, or cutting care to pensioners and forcing people to work into their 70's you'd choose cutting care and raising the pension age? Why is that in the best interests of the people?" Remind me again of the Irish tax rate on companies, then tell me what the pension age is and of course health care is not free is it, hows does all that square with your statement | |||
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"4 in 10 kids who DIDN’T receive free lunches prior to infant provision were officially in poverty.There's also the stigma of free school meals.If everyone is free the poor kids dont stand out and get labeled because their parents are poor. So the government looked for ways to save money and decided children where the best and easiest target.They won't be voting for a decade so fuck them ..." So you are happy for a multi billionare's child to get free school meals and yet you want more spent on social and health care, if you cant afford kids then dont have them, just how much do you expect the government to pay for in life, would it not be easier for workers to not get any pay but everything you need in life such as food, transport, education and healthcare is provided by the state for free, sounds like a communist dream,get rid of all those fat cats | |||
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"Margaret Thatcher was know as the 'milk snatcher'. Theresa May will go down in history as the lunch snatcher.There is no better measure for a civilized society than how you treat the children within it.Its quite refreshing to see the tories show their true colours.Its been calculated that free school meals saved parents £450 a year.Which parents will vote for this.None.Tories are hemaroraging votes..." No the tories are gaining votes. 4 million people voted ukip at the last general election in 2015, but Theresa May's plan for Brexit will see a very large bulk of those 4 million ukippers voting Conservative this time (I'll be one of them). The local election results a couple of weeks ago already hinted that this is what will happen in the general election. The traditional Tory vote will unite with the Ukip vote and this will give Theresa May and her government a very good majority. On your other point about Breakfasts/lunches, rather than the lunch snatcher Theresa May could now go down in history as the Breakfast provider.  | |||
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"Margaret Thatcher was know as the 'milk snatcher'. Theresa May will go down in history as the lunch snatcher.There is no better measure for a civilized society than how you treat the children within it.Its quite refreshing to see the tories show their true colours.Its been calculated that free school meals saved parents £450 a year.Which parents will vote for this.None.Tories are hemaroraging votes... No the tories are gaining votes. 4 million people voted ukip at the last general election in 2015, but Theresa May's plan for Brexit will see a very large bulk of those 4 million ukippers voting Conservative this time (I'll be one of them). The local election results a couple of weeks ago already hinted that this is what will happen in the general election. The traditional Tory vote will unite with the Ukip vote and this will give Theresa May and her government a very good majority. On your other point about Breakfasts/lunches, rather than the lunch snatcher Theresa May could now go down in history as the Breakfast provider. "The grinch that stole lunch but gave back breakfast.The bold print giveth and the small print taketh away!. | |||
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"4 in 10 kids who DIDN’T receive free lunches prior to infant provision were officially in poverty.There's also the stigma of free school meals.If everyone is free the poor kids dont stand out and get labeled because their parents are poor. So the government looked for ways to save money and decided children where the best and easiest target.They won't be voting for a decade so fuck them ... So you are happy for a multi billionare's child to get free school meals and yet you want more spent on social and health care, if you cant afford kids then dont have them, just how much do you expect the government to pay for in life, would it not be easier for workers to not get any pay but everything you need in life such as food, transport, education and healthcare is provided by the state for free, sounds like a communist dream,get rid of all those fat cats" The statement "So you are happy for a multi billionare's child to get free school meals " Prevented me from reading further.Apologies | |||
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"Margaret Thatcher was know as the 'milk snatcher'. Theresa May will go down in history as the lunch snatcher.There is no better measure for a civilized society than how you treat the children within it.Its quite refreshing to see the tories show their true colours.Its been calculated that free school meals saved parents £450 a year.Which parents will vote for this.None.Tories are hemaroraging votes... How many elections did Thatcher lose? It's not big brothers job to feed your kids. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. " .. | |||
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"4 in 10 kids who DIDN’T receive free lunches prior to infant provision were officially in poverty.There's also the stigma of free school meals.If everyone is free the poor kids dont stand out and get labeled because their parents are poor. So the government looked for ways to save money and decided children where the best and easiest target.They won't be voting for a decade so fuck them ..." Alternatively just use the classrooms to teach kids not to bully poor kids... kinda what schools are there for... | |||
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"4 in 10 kids who DIDN’T receive free lunches prior to infant provision were officially in poverty.There's also the stigma of free school meals.If everyone is free the poor kids dont stand out and get labeled because their parents are poor. So the government looked for ways to save money and decided children where the best and easiest target.They won't be voting for a decade so fuck them ... Alternatively just use the classrooms to teach kids not to bully poor kids... kinda what schools are there for... " So shall we remove lunch from the day? | |||
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"4 in 10 kids who DIDN’T receive free lunches prior to infant provision were officially in poverty.There's also the stigma of free school meals.If everyone is free the poor kids dont stand out and get labeled because their parents are poor. So the government looked for ways to save money and decided children where the best and easiest target.They won't be voting for a decade so fuck them ... Alternatively just use the classrooms to teach kids not to bully poor kids... kinda what schools are there for... So shall we remove lunch from the day? " I used to take a packed lunch to school, any particular reason that's no longer feasible? | |||
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"4 in 10 kids who DIDN’T receive free lunches prior to infant provision were officially in poverty.There's also the stigma of free school meals.If everyone is free the poor kids dont stand out and get labeled because their parents are poor. So the government looked for ways to save money and decided children where the best and easiest target.They won't be voting for a decade so fuck them ... Alternatively just use the classrooms to teach kids not to bully poor kids... kinda what schools are there for... So shall we remove lunch from the day? I used to take a packed lunch to school, any particular reason that's no longer feasible? " Because the nanny state knows best and it appears many want a free ride instead of paying their way | |||
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"4 in 10 kids who DIDN’T receive free lunches prior to infant provision were officially in poverty.There's also the stigma of free school meals.If everyone is free the poor kids dont stand out and get labeled because their parents are poor. So the government looked for ways to save money and decided children where the best and easiest target.They won't be voting for a decade so fuck them ... Alternatively just use the classrooms to teach kids not to bully poor kids... kinda what schools are there for... So shall we remove lunch from the day? I used to take a packed lunch to school, any particular reason that's no longer feasible? Yeah. Do the poor kids get vouchers for tesco sandwiches or do they pick them up at the gate on the way in ." They should be shopping at lidl really shouldn't they, asda for a treat | |||
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"4 in 10 kids who DIDN’T receive free lunches prior to infant provision were officially in poverty.There's also the stigma of free school meals.If everyone is free the poor kids dont stand out and get labeled because their parents are poor. So the government looked for ways to save money and decided children where the best and easiest target.They won't be voting for a decade so fuck them ... Alternatively just use the classrooms to teach kids not to bully poor kids... kinda what schools are there for... So shall we remove lunch from the day? I used to take a packed lunch to school, any particular reason that's no longer feasible? " Yeah.Do the poor kids get vouchers for tesco sandwiches. Or pick them up at the gate.? | |||
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"4 in 10 kids who DIDN’T receive free lunches prior to infant provision were officially in poverty.There's also the stigma of free school meals.If everyone is free the poor kids dont stand out and get labeled because their parents are poor. So the government looked for ways to save money and decided children where the best and easiest target.They won't be voting for a decade so fuck them ... Alternatively just use the classrooms to teach kids not to bully poor kids... kinda what schools are there for... So shall we remove lunch from the day? I used to take a packed lunch to school, any particular reason that's no longer feasible? Yeah. Do the poor kids get vouchers for tesco sandwiches or do they pick them up at the gate on the way in . They should be shopping at lidl really shouldn't they, asda for a treat" Lidl and Aldi vouchers brilliant idea why not go further and send them to the food bank and take a can of beans in for lunch. Keep them in their place."Tesco sandwiches are above your station.You'll be asking for waitrose vouchers next. | |||
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"4 in 10 kids who DIDN’T receive free lunches prior to infant provision were officially in poverty.There's also the stigma of free school meals.If everyone is free the poor kids dont stand out and get labeled because their parents are poor. So the government looked for ways to save money and decided children where the best and easiest target.They won't be voting for a decade so fuck them ... Alternatively just use the classrooms to teach kids not to bully poor kids... kinda what schools are there for... So shall we remove lunch from the day? I used to take a packed lunch to school, any particular reason that's no longer feasible? Yeah.Do the poor kids get vouchers for tesco sandwiches. Or pick them up at the gate.?" Perhaps their parents could actually make sandwiches for them, cant be poor if they are buying them | |||
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"4 in 10 kids who DIDN’T receive free lunches prior to infant provision were officially in poverty.There's also the stigma of free school meals.If everyone is free the poor kids dont stand out and get labeled because their parents are poor. So the government looked for ways to save money and decided children where the best and easiest target.They won't be voting for a decade so fuck them ... Alternatively just use the classrooms to teach kids not to bully poor kids... kinda what schools are there for... So shall we remove lunch from the day? I used to take a packed lunch to school, any particular reason that's no longer feasible? Yeah. Do the poor kids get vouchers for tesco sandwiches or do they pick them up at the gate on the way in . They should be shopping at lidl really shouldn't they, asda for a treatLidl and Aldi vouchers brilliant idea why not go further and send them to the food bank and take a can of beans in for lunch. Keep them in their place."Tesco sandwiches are above your station.You'll be asking for waitrose vouchers next. "Who said they should get sandwiches? I'd give them a bag of spuds that they can peel and cook themselves, at least they'd leave school with one useful skill which would be an improvement | |||
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"4 in 10 kids who DIDN’T receive free lunches prior to infant provision were officially in poverty.There's also the stigma of free school meals.If everyone is free the poor kids dont stand out and get labeled because their parents are poor. So the government looked for ways to save money and decided children where the best and easiest target.They won't be voting for a decade so fuck them ... Alternatively just use the classrooms to teach kids not to bully poor kids... kinda what schools are there for... So shall we remove lunch from the day? I used to take a packed lunch to school, any particular reason that's no longer feasible? Yeah. Do the poor kids get vouchers for tesco sandwiches or do they pick them up at the gate on the way in . They should be shopping at lidl really shouldn't they, asda for a treatLidl and Aldi vouchers brilliant idea why not go further and send them to the food bank and take a can of beans in for lunch. Keep them in their place."Tesco sandwiches are above your station.You'll be asking for waitrose vouchers next.
Who said they should get sandwiches? I'd give them a bag of spuds that they can peel and cook themselves, at least they'd leave school with one useful skill which would be an improvement "That skill will be useless considering theres a chip shop on every corner where the poor huddled masses gather. | |||
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"4 in 10 kids who DIDN’T receive free lunches prior to infant provision were officially in poverty.There's also the stigma of free school meals.If everyone is free the poor kids dont stand out and get labeled because their parents are poor. So the government looked for ways to save money and decided children where the best and easiest target.They won't be voting for a decade so fuck them ... Alternatively just use the classrooms to teach kids not to bully poor kids... kinda what schools are there for... So shall we remove lunch from the day? I used to take a packed lunch to school, any particular reason that's no longer feasible? Yeah. Do the poor kids get vouchers for tesco sandwiches or do they pick them up at the gate on the way in . They should be shopping at lidl really shouldn't they, asda for a treatLidl and Aldi vouchers brilliant idea why not go further and send them to the food bank and take a can of beans in for lunch. Keep them in their place."Tesco sandwiches are above your station.You'll be asking for waitrose vouchers next.
Who said they should get sandwiches? I'd give them a bag of spuds that they can peel and cook themselves, at least they'd leave school with one useful skill which would be an improvement That skill will be useless considering theres a chip shop on every corner where the poor huddled masses gather."So the poor go to chip shop to buy them at what £1.75/£2 yet could buy a whole 25 kg bag for £5, | |||
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"At the end of the day.. after reading and commenting on both manifesto threads. I'm getting the impression that people who lean towards the Conservative are heartless bastards that only care about themselves and other people who have. They despise the have nits and would prefer they weren't even around. Regardless of whether they have nothing through fault of their own, through chance or through the way they've been let down by the system. They are rude, aggressive and selfish. They are also ignorant and refuse to even attempt to consider other alternatives.. whilst the system works for them. Whilst the Labour voters at the moment seem to be those who care about the society at large. The people who have and those who have not. Are polite, open minded and respect other people's view points. They are happy to suggest alternatives and happy to work with the other side to find the best system for everyone. Sounds like we need to split the nation in half, because it doesn't look as though living amongst each other will be a barrel of laughs after the election. I've no party affiliation. All I care about right now is equality, justice, logic, reason and a little humanity to be brought into politics. Life is not all about money. The way I see it.. that's all that is important to the Conservatives. This current incarnation of Labour is the closest yet to any sort of justice, reform and humanity I've ever seen in British politics. So I'll be voting Labour. I'm sick of being told what to do by people who lie, cheat and steal. Claim the credit when something works, but pass the buck when they fail. I'm sick of politicians attacking each other in the house of commons every day. Who wants to be led by a bunch of entitled little shits, who think they've had a good day at work through snatching a headline via a nasty little quip at their counterpart. The best minds we have from science, medicine, economics, history and philosophy should be working together to lead us. Not these dirty chimps at a tea party." #Post of the day. | |||
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It'd have a definate sway on whether I want to or not.. sure it'd matter to some others on both sides as well.
Remind me not to say any of this on my profile lolololol | |||
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"At the end of the day.. after reading and commenting on both manifesto threads. I'm getting the impression that people who lean towards the Conservative are heartless bastards that only care about themselves and other people who have. They despise the have nits and would prefer they weren't even around. Regardless of whether they have nothing through fault of their own, through chance or through the way they've been let down by the system. They are rude, aggressive and selfish. They are also ignorant and refuse to even attempt to consider other alternatives.. whilst the system works for them. Whilst the Labour voters at the moment seem to be those who care about the society at large. The people who have and those who have not. Are polite, open minded and respect other people's view points. They are happy to suggest alternatives and happy to work with the other side to find the best system for everyone. Sounds like we need to split the nation in half, because it doesn't look as though living amongst each other will be a barrel of laughs after the election. I've no party affiliation. All I care about right now is equality, justice, logic, reason and a little humanity to be brought into politics. Life is not all about money. The way I see it.. that's all that is important to the Conservatives. This current incarnation of Labour is the closest yet to any sort of justice, reform and humanity I've ever seen in British politics. So I'll be voting Labour. I'm sick of being told what to do by people who lie, cheat and steal. Claim the credit when something works, but pass the buck when they fail. I'm sick of politicians attacking each other in the house of commons every day. Who wants to be led by a bunch of entitled little shits, who think they've had a good day at work through snatching a headline via a nasty little quip at their counterpart. The best minds we have from science, medicine, economics, history and philosophy should be working together to lead us. Not these dirty chimps at a tea party." Explain to me how bankrupting the country benefits the poor? If we weren't paying so much damn interst on our debt then we could almost double NHS spending. Before you say debt has increased the most under tories that was inevitable given the state they inherited. Labour increased governmnet spending in real terms 11/13 years which is not sustainable. They strecthed the finances and when an inevitable problem came, they had no money to deal with it. You're analysis basically reads like a child who is angry at their mum because she has taken sweets away from them and dad would have let them eat sweets all weekend long. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"At the end of the day.. after reading and commenting on both manifesto threads. I'm getting the impression that people who lean towards the Conservative are heartless bastards that only care about themselves and other people who have. They despise the have nits and would prefer they weren't even around. Regardless of whether they have nothing through fault of their own, through chance or through the way they've been let down by the system. They are rude, aggressive and selfish. They are also ignorant and refuse to even attempt to consider other alternatives.. whilst the system works for them. Whilst the Labour voters at the moment seem to be those who care about the society at large. The people who have and those who have not. Are polite, open minded and respect other people's view points. They are happy to suggest alternatives and happy to work with the other side to find the best system for everyone. Sounds like we need to split the nation in half, because it doesn't look as though living amongst each other will be a barrel of laughs after the election. I've no party affiliation. All I care about right now is equality, justice, logic, reason and a little humanity to be brought into politics. Life is not all about money. The way I see it.. that's all that is important to the Conservatives. This current incarnation of Labour is the closest yet to any sort of justice, reform and humanity I've ever seen in British politics. So I'll be voting Labour. I'm sick of being told what to do by people who lie, cheat and steal. Claim the credit when something works, but pass the buck when they fail. I'm sick of politicians attacking each other in the house of commons every day. Who wants to be led by a bunch of entitled little shits, who think they've had a good day at work through snatching a headline via a nasty little quip at their counterpart. The best minds we have from science, medicine, economics, history and philosophy should be working together to lead us. Not these dirty chimps at a tea party.#Post of the day. "Get a room | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"At the end of the day.. after reading and commenting on both manifesto threads. I'm getting the impression that people who lean towards the Conservative are heartless bastards that only care about themselves and other people who have. They despise the have nits and would prefer they weren't even around. Regardless of whether they have nothing through fault of their own, through chance or through the way they've been let down by the system. They are rude, aggressive and selfish. They are also ignorant and refuse to even attempt to consider other alternatives.. whilst the system works for them. Whilst the Labour voters at the moment seem to be those who care about the society at large. The people who have and those who have not. Are polite, open minded and respect other people's view points. They are happy to suggest alternatives and happy to work with the other side to find the best system for everyone. Sounds like we need to split the nation in half, because it doesn't look as though living amongst each other will be a barrel of laughs after the election. I've no party affiliation. All I care about right now is equality, justice, logic, reason and a little humanity to be brought into politics. Life is not all about money. The way I see it.. that's all that is important to the Conservatives. This current incarnation of Labour is the closest yet to any sort of justice, reform and humanity I've ever seen in British politics. So I'll be voting Labour. I'm sick of being told what to do by people who lie, cheat and steal. Claim the credit when something works, but pass the buck when they fail. I'm sick of politicians attacking each other in the house of commons every day. Who wants to be led by a bunch of entitled little shits, who think they've had a good day at work through snatching a headline via a nasty little quip at their counterpart. The best minds we have from science, medicine, economics, history and philosophy should be working together to lead us. Not these dirty chimps at a tea party."
-Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"At the end of the day.. after reading and commenting on both manifesto threads. I'm getting the impression that people who lean towards the Conservative are heartless bastards that only care about themselves and other people who have. They despise the have nits and would prefer they weren't even around. Regardless of whether they have nothing through fault of their own, through chance or through the way they've been let down by the system. They are rude, aggressive and selfish. They are also ignorant and refuse to even attempt to consider other alternatives.. whilst the system works for them. Whilst the Labour voters at the moment seem to be those who care about the society at large. The people who have and those who have not. Are polite, open minded and respect other people's view points. They are happy to suggest alternatives and happy to work with the other side to find the best system for everyone. Sounds like we need to split the nation in half, because it doesn't look as though living amongst each other will be a barrel of laughs after the election. I've no party affiliation. All I care about right now is equality, justice, logic, reason and a little humanity to be brought into politics. Life is not all about money. The way I see it.. that's all that is important to the Conservatives. This current incarnation of Labour is the closest yet to any sort of justice, reform and humanity I've ever seen in British politics. So I'll be voting Labour. I'm sick of being told what to do by people who lie, cheat and steal. Claim the credit when something works, but pass the buck when they fail. I'm sick of politicians attacking each other in the house of commons every day. Who wants to be led by a bunch of entitled little shits, who think they've had a good day at work through snatching a headline via a nasty little quip at their counterpart. The best minds we have from science, medicine, economics, history and philosophy should be working together to lead us. Not these dirty chimps at a tea party.#Post of the day.
Get a room "Whats not to like.He's got passion truth honesty and pragmatism in his favour.#One love. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"At the end of the day.. after reading and commenting on both manifesto threads. I'm getting the impression that people who lean towards the Conservative are heartless bastards that only care about themselves and other people who have. They despise the have nits and would prefer they weren't even around. Regardless of whether they have nothing through fault of their own, through chance or through the way they've been let down by the system. They are rude, aggressive and selfish. They are also ignorant and refuse to even attempt to consider other alternatives.. whilst the system works for them. Whilst the Labour voters at the moment seem to be those who care about the society at large. The people who have and those who have not. Are polite, open minded and respect other people's view points. They are happy to suggest alternatives and happy to work with the other side to find the best system for everyone. Sounds like we need to split the nation in half, because it doesn't look as though living amongst each other will be a barrel of laughs after the election. I've no party affiliation. All I care about right now is equality, justice, logic, reason and a little humanity to be brought into politics. Life is not all about money. The way I see it.. that's all that is important to the Conservatives. This current incarnation of Labour is the closest yet to any sort of justice, reform and humanity I've ever seen in British politics. So I'll be voting Labour. I'm sick of being told what to do by people who lie, cheat and steal. Claim the credit when something works, but pass the buck when they fail. I'm sick of politicians attacking each other in the house of commons every day. Who wants to be led by a bunch of entitled little shits, who think they've had a good day at work through snatching a headline via a nasty little quip at their counterpart. The best minds we have from science, medicine, economics, history and philosophy should be working together to lead us. Not these dirty chimps at a tea party.#Post of the day. "Pile of shite | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"At the end of the day.. after reading and commenting on both manifesto threads. I'm getting the impression that people who lean towards the Conservative are heartless bastards that only care about themselves and other people who have. They despise the have nits and would prefer they weren't even around. Regardless of whether they have nothing through fault of their own, through chance or through the way they've been let down by the system. They are rude, aggressive and selfish. They are also ignorant and refuse to even attempt to consider other alternatives.. whilst the system works for them. Whilst the Labour voters at the moment seem to be those who care about the society at large. The people who have and those who have not. Are polite, open minded and respect other people's view points. They are happy to suggest alternatives and happy to work with the other side to find the best system for everyone. Sounds like we need to split the nation in half, because it doesn't look as though living amongst each other will be a barrel of laughs after the election. I've no party affiliation. All I care about right now is equality, justice, logic, reason and a little humanity to be brought into politics. Life is not all about money. The way I see it.. that's all that is important to the Conservatives. This current incarnation of Labour is the closest yet to any sort of justice, reform and humanity I've ever seen in British politics. So I'll be voting Labour. I'm sick of being told what to do by people who lie, cheat and steal. Claim the credit when something works, but pass the buck when they fail. I'm sick of politicians attacking each other in the house of commons every day. Who wants to be led by a bunch of entitled little shits, who think they've had a good day at work through snatching a headline via a nasty little quip at their counterpart. The best minds we have from science, medicine, economics, history and philosophy should be working together to lead us. Not these dirty chimps at a tea party. Explain to me how bankrupting the country benefits the poor? If we weren't paying so much damn interst on our debt then we could almost double NHS spending. Before you say debt has increased the most under tories that was inevitable given the state they inherited. Labour increased governmnet spending in real terms 11/13 years which is not sustainable. They strecthed the finances and when an inevitable problem came, they had no money to deal with it. You're analysis basically reads like a child who is angry at their mum because she has taken sweets away from them and dad would have let them eat sweets all weekend long. " You think I'm a spoilt child.. you can take what you think I feel about you from what I've written so far I imagine. I don't think it will bankrupt us. I'm not getting into the reasons why with you.. for the reasons I explained in my post. You're not prepared to listen to anything but your own opinion. And you get quite aggressive and rude about anything that's not your opinion. So why waste my own time on such a person? I'm not letting you ruin my day listening to your ramblings if you can't give us the time of day. I gave you multiple chances to suggest your own alternatives to failings most of us can't deny on the other thread. But you won't enter that arena, why waste my thumbprint in this thread? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"At the end of the day.. after reading and commenting on both manifesto threads. I'm getting the impression that people who lean towards the Conservative are heartless bastards that only care about themselves and other people who have. They despise the have nits and would prefer they weren't even around. Regardless of whether they have nothing through fault of their own, through chance or through the way they've been let down by the system. They are rude, aggressive and selfish. They are also ignorant and refuse to even attempt to consider other alternatives.. whilst the system works for them. Whilst the Labour voters at the moment seem to be those who care about the society at large. The people who have and those who have not. Are polite, open minded and respect other people's view points. They are happy to suggest alternatives and happy to work with the other side to find the best system for everyone. Sounds like we need to split the nation in half, because it doesn't look as though living amongst each other will be a barrel of laughs after the election. I've no party affiliation. All I care about right now is equality, justice, logic, reason and a little humanity to be brought into politics. Life is not all about money. The way I see it.. that's all that is important to the Conservatives. This current incarnation of Labour is the closest yet to any sort of justice, reform and humanity I've ever seen in British politics. So I'll be voting Labour. I'm sick of being told what to do by people who lie, cheat and steal. Claim the credit when something works, but pass the buck when they fail. I'm sick of politicians attacking each other in the house of commons every day. Who wants to be led by a bunch of entitled little shits, who think they've had a good day at work through snatching a headline via a nasty little quip at their counterpart. The best minds we have from science, medicine, economics, history and philosophy should be working together to lead us. Not these dirty chimps at a tea party.#Post of the day.
Get a room Whats not to like.He's got passion truth honesty and pragmatism in his favour.#One love."Be honest, it's your second profile | |||
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"So, remove the state pensions triple lock reducing its robustness against inflation Remove winter payments from 'well off pensioners' Use Pensioners combined assets to pay for their social care - including domiciliary care - a charge against assets can be deferred until after death but with interest added. Potentially increase income tax and NI. End to free school meals - Are the Convervatives so confident in winning that they can produce something so utterly devoid of anything positive? Kicking the young and the elderly? Still , May did promise a return to 'good solid conservatism' so I guess a manifesto generating more poor, tired and huddled masses should live up to expectations then. " Don't forget strong and steady. The sheep love repetition. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"At the end of the day.. after reading and commenting on both manifesto threads. I'm getting the impression that people who lean towards the Conservative are heartless bastards that only care about themselves and other people who have. They despise the have nits and would prefer they weren't even around. Regardless of whether they have nothing through fault of their own, through chance or through the way they've been let down by the system. They are rude, aggressive and selfish. They are also ignorant and refuse to even attempt to consider other alternatives.. whilst the system works for them. Whilst the Labour voters at the moment seem to be those who care about the society at large. The people who have and those who have not. Are polite, open minded and respect other people's view points. They are happy to suggest alternatives and happy to work with the other side to find the best system for everyone. Sounds like we need to split the nation in half, because it doesn't look as though living amongst each other will be a barrel of laughs after the election. I've no party affiliation. All I care about right now is equality, justice, logic, reason and a little humanity to be brought into politics. Life is not all about money. The way I see it.. that's all that is important to the Conservatives. This current incarnation of Labour is the closest yet to any sort of justice, reform and humanity I've ever seen in British politics. So I'll be voting Labour. I'm sick of being told what to do by people who lie, cheat and steal. Claim the credit when something works, but pass the buck when they fail. I'm sick of politicians attacking each other in the house of commons every day. Who wants to be led by a bunch of entitled little shits, who think they've had a good day at work through snatching a headline via a nasty little quip at their counterpart. The best minds we have from science, medicine, economics, history and philosophy should be working together to lead us. Not these dirty chimps at a tea party. Explain to me how bankrupting the country benefits the poor? If we weren't paying so much damn interst on our debt then we could almost double NHS spending. Before you say debt has increased the most under tories that was inevitable given the state they inherited. Labour increased governmnet spending in real terms 11/13 years which is not sustainable. They strecthed the finances and when an inevitable problem came, they had no money to deal with it. You're analysis basically reads like a child who is angry at their mum because she has taken sweets away from them and dad would have let them eat sweets all weekend long. You think I'm a spoilt child.. you can take what you think I feel about you from what I've written so far I imagine. I don't think it will bankrupt us. I'm not getting into the reasons why with you.. for the reasons I explained in my post. You're not prepared to listen to anything but your own opinion. And you get quite aggressive and rude about anything that's not your opinion. So why waste my own time on such a person? I'm not letting you ruin my day listening to your ramblings if you can't give us the time of day. I gave you multiple chances to suggest your own alternatives to failings most of us can't deny on the other thread. But you won't enter that arena, why waste my thumbprint in this thread?" From the guy who calls 11m voters "heartless bastards". If you "cared" about people or the future you wouldn't burden them with a debt they can't pay. It's called being responsible not being heartless. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"At the end of the day.. after reading and commenting on both manifesto threads. I'm getting the impression that people who lean towards the Conservative are heartless bastards that only care about themselves and other people who have. They despise the have nits and would prefer they weren't even around. Regardless of whether they have nothing through fault of their own, through chance or through the way they've been let down by the system. They are rude, aggressive and selfish. They are also ignorant and refuse to even attempt to consider other alternatives.. whilst the system works for them. Whilst the Labour voters at the moment seem to be those who care about the society at large. The people who have and those who have not. Are polite, open minded and respect other people's view points. They are happy to suggest alternatives and happy to work with the other side to find the best system for everyone. Sounds like we need to split the nation in half, because it doesn't look as though living amongst each other will be a barrel of laughs after the election. I've no party affiliation. All I care about right now is equality, justice, logic, reason and a little humanity to be brought into politics. Life is not all about money. The way I see it.. that's all that is important to the Conservatives. This current incarnation of Labour is the closest yet to any sort of justice, reform and humanity I've ever seen in British politics. So I'll be voting Labour. I'm sick of being told what to do by people who lie, cheat and steal. Claim the credit when something works, but pass the buck when they fail. I'm sick of politicians attacking each other in the house of commons every day. Who wants to be led by a bunch of entitled little shits, who think they've had a good day at work through snatching a headline via a nasty little quip at their counterpart. The best minds we have from science, medicine, economics, history and philosophy should be working together to lead us. Not these dirty chimps at a tea party. Explain to me how bankrupting the country benefits the poor? If we weren't paying so much damn interst on our debt then we could almost double NHS spending. Before you say debt has increased the most under tories that was inevitable given the state they inherited. Labour increased governmnet spending in real terms 11/13 years which is not sustainable. They strecthed the finances and when an inevitable problem came, they had no money to deal with it. You're analysis basically reads like a child who is angry at their mum because she has taken sweets away from them and dad would have let them eat sweets all weekend long. You think I'm a spoilt child.. you can take what you think I feel about you from what I've written so far I imagine. I don't think it will bankrupt us. I'm not getting into the reasons why with you.. for the reasons I explained in my post. You're not prepared to listen to anything but your own opinion. And you get quite aggressive and rude about anything that's not your opinion. So why waste my own time on such a person? I'm not letting you ruin my day listening to your ramblings if you can't give us the time of day. I gave you multiple chances to suggest your own alternatives to failings most of us can't deny on the other thread. But you won't enter that arena, why waste my thumbprint in this thread? From the guy who calls 11m voters "heartless bastards". If you "cared" about people or the future you wouldn't burden them with a debt they can't pay. It's called being responsible not being heartless. " I disagree with you.. end of. You thinking that's what will happen, doesn't make it true.. as much as you'd love it to. Now if it's all the same.. I'd rather you avoided continuing to challenge me on what I say.. till you're prepared to offer alternative solutions yourself. You know, find something's we may be able to agree on and work towards solving problems and differences. That's how deals are made right? Said the lefty to the capitalist. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"At the end of the day.. after reading and commenting on both manifesto threads. I'm getting the impression that people who lean towards the Conservative are heartless bastards that only care about themselves and other people who have. They despise the have nits and would prefer they weren't even around. Regardless of whether they have nothing through fault of their own, through chance or through the way they've been let down by the system. They are rude, aggressive and selfish. They are also ignorant and refuse to even attempt to consider other alternatives.. whilst the system works for them. Whilst the Labour voters at the moment seem to be those who care about the society at large. The people who have and those who have not. Are polite, open minded and respect other people's view points. They are happy to suggest alternatives and happy to work with the other side to find the best system for everyone. Sounds like we need to split the nation in half, because it doesn't look as though living amongst each other will be a barrel of laughs after the election. I've no party affiliation. All I care about right now is equality, justice, logic, reason and a little humanity to be brought into politics. Life is not all about money. The way I see it.. that's all that is important to the Conservatives. This current incarnation of Labour is the closest yet to any sort of justice, reform and humanity I've ever seen in British politics. So I'll be voting Labour. I'm sick of being told what to do by people who lie, cheat and steal. Claim the credit when something works, but pass the buck when they fail. I'm sick of politicians attacking each other in the house of commons every day. Who wants to be led by a bunch of entitled little shits, who think they've had a good day at work through snatching a headline via a nasty little quip at their counterpart. The best minds we have from science, medicine, economics, history and philosophy should be working together to lead us. Not these dirty chimps at a tea party.#Post of the day.
Get a room Whats not to like.He's got passion truth honesty and pragmatism in his favour.#One love.
Be honest, it's your second profile "You give me to much credit. I lack the empathy to write like that.Come on brilliant! He's not my sock puppet. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"At the end of the day.. after reading and commenting on both manifesto threads. I'm getting the impression that people who lean towards the Conservative are heartless bastards that only care about themselves and other people who have. They despise the have nits and would prefer they weren't even around. Regardless of whether they have nothing through fault of their own, through chance or through the way they've been let down by the system. They are rude, aggressive and selfish. They are also ignorant and refuse to even attempt to consider other alternatives.. whilst the system works for them. Whilst the Labour voters at the moment seem to be those who care about the society at large. The people who have and those who have not. Are polite, open minded and respect other people's view points. They are happy to suggest alternatives and happy to work with the other side to find the best system for everyone. Sounds like we need to split the nation in half, because it doesn't look as though living amongst each other will be a barrel of laughs after the election. I've no party affiliation. All I care about right now is equality, justice, logic, reason and a little humanity to be brought into politics. Life is not all about money. The way I see it.. that's all that is important to the Conservatives. This current incarnation of Labour is the closest yet to any sort of justice, reform and humanity I've ever seen in British politics. So I'll be voting Labour. I'm sick of being told what to do by people who lie, cheat and steal. Claim the credit when something works, but pass the buck when they fail. I'm sick of politicians attacking each other in the house of commons every day. Who wants to be led by a bunch of entitled little shits, who think they've had a good day at work through snatching a headline via a nasty little quip at their counterpart. The best minds we have from science, medicine, economics, history and philosophy should be working together to lead us. Not these dirty chimps at a tea party. Explain to me how bankrupting the country benefits the poor? If we weren't paying so much damn interst on our debt then we could almost double NHS spending. Before you say debt has increased the most under tories that was inevitable given the state they inherited. Labour increased governmnet spending in real terms 11/13 years which is not sustainable. They strecthed the finances and when an inevitable problem came, they had no money to deal with it. You're analysis basically reads like a child who is angry at their mum because she has taken sweets away from them and dad would have let them eat sweets all weekend long. You think I'm a spoilt child.. you can take what you think I feel about you from what I've written so far I imagine. I don't think it will bankrupt us. I'm not getting into the reasons why with you.. for the reasons I explained in my post. You're not prepared to listen to anything but your own opinion. And you get quite aggressive and rude about anything that's not your opinion. So why waste my own time on such a person? I'm not letting you ruin my day listening to your ramblings if you can't give us the time of day. I gave you multiple chances to suggest your own alternatives to failings most of us can't deny on the other thread. But you won't enter that arena, why waste my thumbprint in this thread? From the guy who calls 11m voters "heartless bastards". If you "cared" about people or the future you wouldn't burden them with a debt they can't pay. It's called being responsible not being heartless. I disagree with you.. end of. You thinking that's what will happen, doesn't make it true.. as much as you'd love it to. Now if it's all the same.. I'd rather you avoided continuing to challenge me on what I say.. till you're prepared to offer alternative solutions yourself. You know, find something's we may be able to agree on and work towards solving problems and differences. That's how deals are made right? Said the lefty to the capitalist." But save it for another thread. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"At the end of the day.. after reading and commenting on both manifesto threads. I'm getting the impression that people who lean towards the Conservative are heartless bastards that only care about themselves and other people who have. They despise the have nits and would prefer they weren't even around. Regardless of whether they have nothing through fault of their own, through chance or through the way they've been let down by the system. They are rude, aggressive and selfish. They are also ignorant and refuse to even attempt to consider other alternatives.. whilst the system works for them. Whilst the Labour voters at the moment seem to be those who care about the society at large. The people who have and those who have not. Are polite, open minded and respect other people's view points. They are happy to suggest alternatives and happy to work with the other side to find the best system for everyone. Sounds like we need to split the nation in half, because it doesn't look as though living amongst each other will be a barrel of laughs after the election. I've no party affiliation. All I care about right now is equality, justice, logic, reason and a little humanity to be brought into politics. Life is not all about money. The way I see it.. that's all that is important to the Conservatives. This current incarnation of Labour is the closest yet to any sort of justice, reform and humanity I've ever seen in British politics. So I'll be voting Labour. I'm sick of being told what to do by people who lie, cheat and steal. Claim the credit when something works, but pass the buck when they fail. I'm sick of politicians attacking each other in the house of commons every day. Who wants to be led by a bunch of entitled little shits, who think they've had a good day at work through snatching a headline via a nasty little quip at their counterpart. The best minds we have from science, medicine, economics, history and philosophy should be working together to lead us. Not these dirty chimps at a tea party.#Post of the day. "I second that
great post and I like the way you express yourself.
ive always thought the people running the country and the world are those best in their fields regarding science, engineers, medicine, philosophy, etc.
having seen the labour manifesto and compared it to the rest I too am voting labour.
I thought corbyn had no change of being prime minister before teresa may called for snap election...but comparing the two during the election campaign, corbyn wins my vote as may and the conservatives have done absolutely nothing to earn it. Its like they know 100% they have won and not even trying.
well I think after todays conservative manifesto release its going to be a lot closer than they think. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"At the end of the day.. after reading and commenting on both manifesto threads. I'm getting the impression that people who lean towards the Conservative are heartless bastards that only care about themselves and other people who have. They despise the have nits and would prefer they weren't even around. Regardless of whether they have nothing through fault of their own, through chance or through the way they've been let down by the system. They are rude, aggressive and selfish. They are also ignorant and refuse to even attempt to consider other alternatives.. whilst the system works for them. Whilst the Labour voters at the moment seem to be those who care about the society at large. The people who have and those who have not. Are polite, open minded and respect other people's view points. They are happy to suggest alternatives and happy to work with the other side to find the best system for everyone. Sounds like we need to split the nation in half, because it doesn't look as though living amongst each other will be a barrel of laughs after the election. I've no party affiliation. All I care about right now is equality, justice, logic, reason and a little humanity to be brought into politics. Life is not all about money. The way I see it.. that's all that is important to the Conservatives. This current incarnation of Labour is the closest yet to any sort of justice, reform and humanity I've ever seen in British politics. So I'll be voting Labour. I'm sick of being told what to do by people who lie, cheat and steal. Claim the credit when something works, but pass the buck when they fail. I'm sick of politicians attacking each other in the house of commons every day. Who wants to be led by a bunch of entitled little shits, who think they've had a good day at work through snatching a headline via a nasty little quip at their counterpart. The best minds we have from science, medicine, economics, history and philosophy should be working together to lead us. Not these dirty chimps at a tea party. Explain to me how bankrupting the country benefits the poor? If we weren't paying so much damn interst on our debt then we could almost double NHS spending. Before you say debt has increased the most under tories that was inevitable given the state they inherited. Labour increased governmnet spending in real terms 11/13 years which is not sustainable. They strecthed the finances and when an inevitable problem came, they had no money to deal with it. You're analysis basically reads like a child who is angry at their mum because she has taken sweets away from them and dad would have let them eat sweets all weekend long. You think I'm a spoilt child.. you can take what you think I feel about you from what I've written so far I imagine. I don't think it will bankrupt us. I'm not getting into the reasons why with you.. for the reasons I explained in my post. You're not prepared to listen to anything but your own opinion. And you get quite aggressive and rude about anything that's not your opinion. So why waste my own time on such a person? I'm not letting you ruin my day listening to your ramblings if you can't give us the time of day. I gave you multiple chances to suggest your own alternatives to failings most of us can't deny on the other thread. But you won't enter that arena, why waste my thumbprint in this thread? From the guy who calls 11m voters "heartless bastards". If you "cared" about people or the future you wouldn't burden them with a debt they can't pay. It's called being responsible not being heartless. I disagree with you.. end of. You thinking that's what will happen, doesn't make it true.. as much as you'd love it to. Now if it's all the same.. I'd rather you avoided continuing to challenge me on what I say.. till you're prepared to offer alternative solutions yourself. You know, find something's we may be able to agree on and work towards solving problems and differences. That's how deals are made right? Said the lefty to the capitalist." Alternatives to what? We cannot keep playing the interest debt we are, which is artificially low due to interest rates. At 3% interest rate we'd pay more on debt interest than the NHS - is that a good socialist thing to do? We need to pay down the debt, i see no alternative to that. The future isn't certain so neither of us can say Corbyn definately can or cannot fund his extra spending but i can point to the fact that the tax to GDP is 36% which is the higher end of the national average so we are not a low tax country by any means. I can also point to the 1997 labour manifesto that identified ~£40bn of uncollected tax they wanted to go after and spoiler alert, they never got it. The debt, the deficit, the tax to GDP ratio and the labour manifesto are facts, not my opinion. You may draw a different opinion from the facts but i never hear lefties actually say when and how they will get our debt down to sustainable levels whereby the country wouldn't have to default on it's debt if interest rates return to the long term average or 5.5%. | |||
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"At the end of the day.. after reading and commenting on both manifesto threads. I'm getting the impression that people who lean towards the Conservative are heartless bastards that only care about themselves and other people who have. They despise the have nits and would prefer they weren't even around. Regardless of whether they have nothing through fault of their own, through chance or through the way they've been let down by the system. They are rude, aggressive and selfish. They are also ignorant and refuse to even attempt to consider other alternatives.. whilst the system works for them. Whilst the Labour voters at the moment seem to be those who care about the society at large. The people who have and those who have not. Are polite, open minded and respect other people's view points. They are happy to suggest alternatives and happy to work with the other side to find the best system for everyone. Sounds like we need to split the nation in half, because it doesn't look as though living amongst each other will be a barrel of laughs after the election. I've no party affiliation. All I care about right now is equality, justice, logic, reason and a little humanity to be brought into politics. Life is not all about money. The way I see it.. that's all that is important to the Conservatives. This current incarnation of Labour is the closest yet to any sort of justice, reform and humanity I've ever seen in British politics. So I'll be voting Labour. I'm sick of being told what to do by people who lie, cheat and steal. Claim the credit when something works, but pass the buck when they fail. I'm sick of politicians attacking each other in the house of commons every day. Who wants to be led by a bunch of entitled little shits, who think they've had a good day at work through snatching a headline via a nasty little quip at their counterpart. The best minds we have from science, medicine, economics, history and philosophy should be working together to lead us. Not these dirty chimps at a tea party.#Post of the day.
Get a room Whats not to like.He's got passion truth honesty and pragmatism in his favour.#One love.
Be honest, it's your second profile You give me to much credit. I lack the empathy to write like that.Come on brilliant! He's not my sock puppet. "If empathy is the same as indefinately spending other peoples money then i know how to be empathetic. | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? " They aren't the only two parties... | |||
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"At the end of the day.. after reading and commenting on both manifesto threads. I'm getting the impression that people who lean towards the Conservative are heartless bastards that only care about themselves and other people who have. They despise the have nits and would prefer they weren't even around. Regardless of whether they have nothing through fault of their own, through chance or through the way they've been let down by the system. They are rude, aggressive and selfish. They are also ignorant and refuse to even attempt to consider other alternatives.. whilst the system works for them. Whilst the Labour voters at the moment seem to be those who care about the society at large. The people who have and those who have not. Are polite, open minded and respect other people's view points. They are happy to suggest alternatives and happy to work with the other side to find the best system for everyone. Sounds like we need to split the nation in half, because it doesn't look as though living amongst each other will be a barrel of laughs after the election. I've no party affiliation. All I care about right now is equality, justice, logic, reason and a little humanity to be brought into politics. Life is not all about money. The way I see it.. that's all that is important to the Conservatives. This current incarnation of Labour is the closest yet to any sort of justice, reform and humanity I've ever seen in British politics. So I'll be voting Labour. I'm sick of being told what to do by people who lie, cheat and steal. Claim the credit when something works, but pass the buck when they fail. I'm sick of politicians attacking each other in the house of commons every day. Who wants to be led by a bunch of entitled little shits, who think they've had a good day at work through snatching a headline via a nasty little quip at their counterpart. The best minds we have from science, medicine, economics, history and philosophy should be working together to lead us. Not these dirty chimps at a tea party.#Post of the day.
I second that
great post and I like the way you express yourself.
ive always thought the people running the country and the world are those best in their fields regarding science, engineers, medicine, philosophy, etc.
having seen the labour manifesto and compared it to the rest I too am voting labour.
I thought corbyn had no change of being prime minister before teresa may called for snap election...but comparing the two during the election campaign, corbyn wins my vote as may and the conservatives have done absolutely nothing to earn it. Its like they know 100% they have won and not even trying.
well I think after todays conservative manifesto release its going to be a lot closer than they think."Thank you. I agree with you too. | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? They aren't the only two parties... " If opinion polls are to be believed, they pretty much are. | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. " Me too. It's really odd. Are they gambling that older people are so certain to vote Tory that they can take a hit? Seems an odd and unnecessary gamble, if so. | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? They aren't the only two parties... If opinion polls are to be believed, they pretty much are. " Well yes, but i was sort of agreeing with your analysis that both manifesto's are a bit shit really. We're just back to the ideological battles of the 70's / 80's and very few practical solutions to the real issues. | |||
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"At the end of the day.. after reading and commenting on both manifesto threads. I'm getting the impression that people who lean towards the Conservative are heartless bastards that only care about themselves and other people who have. They despise the have nits and would prefer they weren't even around. Regardless of whether they have nothing through fault of their own, through chance or through the way they've been let down by the system. They are rude, aggressive and selfish. They are also ignorant and refuse to even attempt to consider other alternatives.. whilst the system works for them. Whilst the Labour voters at the moment seem to be those who care about the society at large. The people who have and those who have not. Are polite, open minded and respect other people's view points. They are happy to suggest alternatives and happy to work with the other side to find the best system for everyone. Sounds like we need to split the nation in half, because it doesn't look as though living amongst each other will be a barrel of laughs after the election. I've no party affiliation. All I care about right now is equality, justice, logic, reason and a little humanity to be brought into politics. Life is not all about money. The way I see it.. that's all that is important to the Conservatives. This current incarnation of Labour is the closest yet to any sort of justice, reform and humanity I've ever seen in British politics. So I'll be voting Labour. I'm sick of being told what to do by people who lie, cheat and steal. Claim the credit when something works, but pass the buck when they fail. I'm sick of politicians attacking each other in the house of commons every day. Who wants to be led by a bunch of entitled little shits, who think they've had a good day at work through snatching a headline via a nasty little quip at their counterpart. The best minds we have from science, medicine, economics, history and philosophy should be working together to lead us. Not these dirty chimps at a tea party.#Post of the day.
I second that
great post and I like the way you express yourself.
ive always thought the people running the country and the world are those best in their fields regarding science, engineers, medicine, philosophy, etc.
having seen the labour manifesto and compared it to the rest I too am voting labour.
I thought corbyn had no change of being prime minister before teresa may called for snap election...but comparing the two during the election campaign, corbyn wins my vote as may and the conservatives have done absolutely nothing to earn it. Its like they know 100% they have won and not even trying.
well I think after todays conservative manifesto release its going to be a lot closer than they think.
Thank you. I agree with you too."That, and having listened to the reaction to JCs interview on Jeremy Vines programme makes me think that it is likeley to be much closer than I previously thought. I tend to read my news, so I hadn't really heard him speak, but he seemed to come over really well - JV asked him questions and bugger me, if he didn't get an actual answer. Normally the phone in is a selection of "disgusted from Tonbridge Wells", but people seemed to like him. | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? They aren't the only two parties... If opinion polls are to be believed, they pretty much are. Well yes, but i was sort of agreeing with your analysis that both manifesto's are a bit shit really. We're just back to the ideological battles of the 70's / 80's and very few practical solutions to the real issues. " I disagree - Labours Manifesto is actually quite middle of the road. The increase in Corporation Tax, for example, isn't that much, it's still less than Churchills (to name someone "ultra tory"), they want a state competitor in water, not wholesale nationalisation, and a mild increase in tax for top earners. I know the right jump up and down about the wealthy/businesses leaving, but at that level of taxation its hardly realistic -Plenty of European countries tax at that level and they still have businesses/the wealthy. And furthermore, we are the 5th biggest economy, it will still suit big buisiness to trade here, even if they do have to pay a bit more. | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? They aren't the only two parties... If opinion polls are to be believed, they pretty much are. Well yes, but i was sort of agreeing with your analysis that both manifesto's are a bit shit really. We're just back to the ideological battles of the 70's / 80's and very few practical solutions to the real issues. I disagree - Labours Manifesto is actually quite middle of the road. The increase in Corporation Tax, for example, isn't that much, it's still less than Churchills (to name someone "ultra tory"), they want a state competitor in water, not wholesale nationalisation, and a mild increase in tax for top earners. I know the right jump up and down about the wealthy/businesses leaving, but at that level of taxation its hardly realistic -Plenty of European countries tax at that level and they still have businesses/the wealthy. And furthermore, we are the 5th biggest economy, it will still suit big buisiness to trade here, even if they do have to pay a bit more. " 5th largest economy would be more impressive it if was a normal distribution. There are 15 countries in the world with a GDP over $1tn, anything less is insignificant to global trade. Only two countries are over $10tn and British GDP is 12.3% of American GDP. So basically 5th isn't saying much looking at it the way a business would. | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? They aren't the only two parties... " you are right... but i do find it interesting that for all the costings labour put in theirs... the tories could only find 6 they could attack as being unfunded..... then today... the tories bring out theirs... and labour have managed to find 60 uncosted spending commitments... so as the original person said... either labour are hiring the keenest eyed people... or the tories have dropped the ball by letting the yts kid do the manifesto (no offence to anyone on yts.....lol) | |||
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"So, remove the state pensions triple lock reducing its robustness against inflation Remove winter payments from 'well off pensioners' Use Pensioners combined assets to pay for their social care - including domiciliary care - a charge against assets can be deferred until after death but with interest added. Potentially increase income tax and NI. End to free school meals - Are the Convervatives so confident in winning that they can produce something so utterly devoid of anything positive? Kicking the young and the elderly? Still , May did promise a return to 'good solid conservatism' so I guess a manifesto generating more poor, tired and huddled masses should live up to expectations then. " Ending free school meals is not in the conservative manifesto | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? They aren't the only two parties... you are right... but i do find it interesting that for all the costings labour put in theirs... the tories could only find 6 they could attack as being unfunded..... then today... the tories bring out theirs... and labour have managed to find 60 uncosted spending commitments... so as the original person said... either labour are hiring the keenest eyed people... or the tories have dropped the ball by letting the yts kid do the manifesto (no offence to anyone on yts.....lol)" Assuming he can collect the tax, which the tax to GDP ratio and labours '97 manifesto suggests he can't | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? They aren't the only two parties... If opinion polls are to be believed, they pretty much are. Well yes, but i was sort of agreeing with your analysis that both manifesto's are a bit shit really. We're just back to the ideological battles of the 70's / 80's and very few practical solutions to the real issues. I disagree - Labours Manifesto is actually quite middle of the road. The increase in Corporation Tax, for example, isn't that much, it's still less than Churchills (to name someone "ultra tory"), they want a state competitor in water, not wholesale nationalisation, and a mild increase in tax for top earners. I know the right jump up and down about the wealthy/businesses leaving, but at that level of taxation its hardly realistic -Plenty of European countries tax at that level and they still have businesses/the wealthy. And furthermore, we are the 5th biggest economy, it will still suit big buisiness to trade here, even if they do have to pay a bit more. 5th largest economy would be more impressive it if was a normal distribution. There are 15 countries in the world with a GDP over $1tn, anything less is insignificant to global trade. Only two countries are over $10tn and British GDP is 12.3% of American GDP. So basically 5th isn't saying much looking at it the way a business would. " It only means that it is not an insignificant place to trade, and it is financially worthwhile to do so. After all, do countries with smaller economies not have Starbucks, Google, Amazon, HSBC etc, even at higher levels of tax? | |||
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"At the end of the day.. after reading and commenting on both manifesto threads. I'm getting the impression that people who lean towards the Conservative are heartless bastards that only care about themselves and other people who have. They despise the have nits and would prefer they weren't even around. Regardless of whether they have nothing through fault of their own, through chance or through the way they've been let down by the system. They are rude, aggressive and selfish. They are also ignorant and refuse to even attempt to consider other alternatives.. whilst the system works for them. Whilst the Labour voters at the moment seem to be those who care about the society at large. The people who have and those who have not. Are polite, open minded and respect other people's view points. They are happy to suggest alternatives and happy to work with the other side to find the best system for everyone. Sounds like we need to split the nation in half, because it doesn't look as though living amongst each other will be a barrel of laughs after the election. I've no party affiliation. All I care about right now is equality, justice, logic, reason and a little humanity to be brought into politics. Life is not all about money. The way I see it.. that's all that is important to the Conservatives. This current incarnation of Labour is the closest yet to any sort of justice, reform and humanity I've ever seen in British politics. So I'll be voting Labour. I'm sick of being told what to do by people who lie, cheat and steal. Claim the credit when something works, but pass the buck when they fail. I'm sick of politicians attacking each other in the house of commons every day. Who wants to be led by a bunch of entitled little shits, who think they've had a good day at work through snatching a headline via a nasty little quip at their counterpart. The best minds we have from science, medicine, economics, history and philosophy should be working together to lead us. Not these dirty chimps at a tea party.#Post of the day.
I second that
great post and I like the way you express yourself.
ive always thought the people running the country and the world are those best in their fields regarding science, engineers, medicine, philosophy, etc.
having seen the labour manifesto and compared it to the rest I too am voting labour.
I thought corbyn had no change of being prime minister before teresa may called for snap election...but comparing the two during the election campaign, corbyn wins my vote as may and the conservatives have done absolutely nothing to earn it. Its like they know 100% they have won and not even trying.
well I think after todays conservative manifesto release its going to be a lot closer than they think.
Thank you. I agree with you too.
That, and having listened to the reaction to JCs interview on Jeremy Vines programme makes me think that it is likeley to be much closer than I previously thought.
I tend to read my news, so I hadn't really heard him speak, but he seemed to come over really well - JV asked him questions and bugger me, if he didn't get an actual answer. Normally the phone in is a selection of "disgusted from Tonbridge Wells", but people seemed to like him. "I get most of my news from Radio 4 (which still seemed pretty biased towards Conservative party) and lots of different audio internet news and politics podcasts. Most of which I'd say come across impartial and err on side of science, reason and logic.. but that's only my opinion. I've 'Luke's Corbyn on Facebook, so I've heard him speak a fair bit. He's not always been a good speaker, but he's always had his beliefs and tended to stick to his guns.. He's a pacifist and unfortunately that opens him up to attack a lot from Conservative thinkers.. whose whole belief is based on an industrial, money making, war machine. So it's taken him a while to get into his stride. He's also tried a different tact at Prime Ministers question time when he first became leader. He's not really a shouter or sneerer and instead tries to focus on resolving the issues. So people think he's weak. He has changed tact and is getting better at public speaking. I've just heard all the parties are preparing for tv debate bar Labour and Conservative. Corbyn is dying for an opportunity to debate May.. but she refuses. He is silly not to go ahead, just because she doesn't. We need public discourse in a "Democracy" it's the heart of our system supposedly. If every party agrees to do it then those who don't will look pretty bad in my opinion.. like they've got something to hide.. But they should be judged on their policies, not personalities. | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? They aren't the only two parties... If opinion polls are to be believed, they pretty much are. Well yes, but i was sort of agreeing with your analysis that both manifesto's are a bit shit really. We're just back to the ideological battles of the 70's / 80's and very few practical solutions to the real issues. I disagree - Labours Manifesto is actually quite middle of the road. The increase in Corporation Tax, for example, isn't that much, it's still less than Churchills (to name someone "ultra tory"), they want a state competitor in water, not wholesale nationalisation, and a mild increase in tax for top earners. I know the right jump up and down about the wealthy/businesses leaving, but at that level of taxation its hardly realistic -Plenty of European countries tax at that level and they still have businesses/the wealthy. And furthermore, we are the 5th biggest economy, it will still suit big buisiness to trade here, even if they do have to pay a bit more. 5th largest economy would be more impressive it if was a normal distribution. There are 15 countries in the world with a GDP over $1tn, anything less is insignificant to global trade. Only two countries are over $10tn and British GDP is 12.3% of American GDP. So basically 5th isn't saying much looking at it the way a business would. It only means that it is not an insignificant place to trade, and it is financially worthwhile to do so. After all, do countries with smaller economies not have Starbucks, Google, Amazon, HSBC etc, even at higher levels of tax?" It's neither insignificant nor significant. Exactly the kind of place companies won't endure hassle to trade in but will trade in under the right conditions. | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? They aren't the only two parties... If opinion polls are to be believed, they pretty much are. Well yes, but i was sort of agreeing with your analysis that both manifesto's are a bit shit really. We're just back to the ideological battles of the 70's / 80's and very few practical solutions to the real issues. I disagree - Labours Manifesto is actually quite middle of the road. The increase in Corporation Tax, for example, isn't that much, it's still less than Churchills (to name someone "ultra tory"), they want a state competitor in water, not wholesale nationalisation, and a mild increase in tax for top earners. I know the right jump up and down about the wealthy/businesses leaving, but at that level of taxation its hardly realistic -Plenty of European countries tax at that level and they still have businesses/the wealthy. And furthermore, we are the 5th biggest economy, it will still suit big buisiness to trade here, even if they do have to pay a bit more. 5th largest economy would be more impressive it if was a normal distribution. There are 15 countries in the world with a GDP over $1tn, anything less is insignificant to global trade. Only two countries are over $10tn and British GDP is 12.3% of American GDP. So basically 5th isn't saying much looking at it the way a business would. It only means that it is not an insignificant place to trade, and it is financially worthwhile to do so. After all, do countries with smaller economies not have Starbucks, Google, Amazon, HSBC etc, even at higher levels of tax? It's neither insignificant nor significant. Exactly the kind of place companies won't endure hassle to trade in but will trade in under the right conditions. " And yet they dane to trade in smaller economies with higher corporation taxes. It's almost like businesses will go anywhere they can make a profit... | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? They aren't the only two parties... If opinion polls are to be believed, they pretty much are. Well yes, but i was sort of agreeing with your analysis that both manifesto's are a bit shit really. We're just back to the ideological battles of the 70's / 80's and very few practical solutions to the real issues. I disagree - Labours Manifesto is actually quite middle of the road. The increase in Corporation Tax, for example, isn't that much, it's still less than Churchills (to name someone "ultra tory"), they want a state competitor in water, not wholesale nationalisation, and a mild increase in tax for top earners. I know the right jump up and down about the wealthy/businesses leaving, but at that level of taxation its hardly realistic -Plenty of European countries tax at that level and they still have businesses/the wealthy. And furthermore, we are the 5th biggest economy, it will still suit big buisiness to trade here, even if they do have to pay a bit more. 5th largest economy would be more impressive it if was a normal distribution. There are 15 countries in the world with a GDP over $1tn, anything less is insignificant to global trade. Only two countries are over $10tn and British GDP is 12.3% of American GDP. So basically 5th isn't saying much looking at it the way a business would. It only means that it is not an insignificant place to trade, and it is financially worthwhile to do so. After all, do countries with smaller economies not have Starbucks, Google, Amazon, HSBC etc, even at higher levels of tax? It's neither insignificant nor significant. Exactly the kind of place companies won't endure hassle to trade in but will trade in under the right conditions. And yet they dane to trade in smaller economies with higher corporation taxes. It's almost like businesses will go anywhere they can make a profit... "I think the average labour voter doesn't understand how easy it is to move money and profits between countries, I'm a pretty average person and yet i can do it. Corbyn's spending is predicated on the idea that people much wealthier and powerful than me won't do it. I find that hard to see. | |||
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"can i bring this topic right back full circle and ask the people who are going to vote tory what they like about the manifesto... is it just "all about brexit" and forget everything else.... just because for example.... on education spend alone.. the IFS have done the sums based on manifesto pledges.... and works out its actually a 4 billion pound real term cut.... i haven't heard one person back up the proposals on social care today.... or on taking Winter fuel payments not only from the rich (of which there was agreement) but on everyone except those on pension credit... or the "breakfast for lunch" swop on school meals.... or the cap on energy bills, which everyone hated when milliband proposed it.... or is everything just so fixated on "brexit" that they get a pass on everything else.... I am really just curious....." I think the Conservatives are banking on stolen UKIP votes and being greedy enough to try and steal a few Labour votes as they know the tide is starting to shift a little.. So they've tried to pull back closer to the centre. I feel they've over reached and are offering a mixed bag of bad news to everybody and trying to spray perfume on it. We all know that a manifesto like that promises hard times for those of us not directly effected from the newer changes. As things stand.. I personally don't gain or lose financially in either manifesto. However, I'm sure to lose massively three months afterwards if Conservatives get in.. as are the self employed.. Who they've already tried to hit whilst a manifesto promise was already in place! If you're earning under £50,000p/a then the Conservatives are coming at you like a great white after the election. And I can't afford anything else.. I'll lose my council home if that happens as I barely make ends meet now.. and I work 50+hrs a week. On the other side Labour are going for those who can afford to take a hit, afford to retrain, afford to downsize. | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? They aren't the only two parties... If opinion polls are to be believed, they pretty much are. Well yes, but i was sort of agreeing with your analysis that both manifesto's are a bit shit really. We're just back to the ideological battles of the 70's / 80's and very few practical solutions to the real issues. I disagree - Labours Manifesto is actually quite middle of the road. The increase in Corporation Tax, for example, isn't that much, it's still less than Churchills (to name someone "ultra tory"), they want a state competitor in water, not wholesale nationalisation, and a mild increase in tax for top earners. I know the right jump up and down about the wealthy/businesses leaving, but at that level of taxation its hardly realistic -Plenty of European countries tax at that level and they still have businesses/the wealthy. And furthermore, we are the 5th biggest economy, it will still suit big buisiness to trade here, even if they do have to pay a bit more. 5th largest economy would be more impressive it if was a normal distribution. There are 15 countries in the world with a GDP over $1tn, anything less is insignificant to global trade. Only two countries are over $10tn and British GDP is 12.3% of American GDP. So basically 5th isn't saying much looking at it the way a business would. It only means that it is not an insignificant place to trade, and it is financially worthwhile to do so. After all, do countries with smaller economies not have Starbucks, Google, Amazon, HSBC etc, even at higher levels of tax? It's neither insignificant nor significant. Exactly the kind of place companies won't endure hassle to trade in but will trade in under the right conditions. And yet they dane to trade in smaller economies with higher corporation taxes. It's almost like businesses will go anywhere they can make a profit...
I think the average labour voter doesn't understand how easy it is to move money and profits between countries, I'm a pretty average person and yet i can do it. Corbyn's spending is predicated on the idea that people much wealthier and powerful than me won't do it. I find that hard to see. "After that.. I'm not responding to your comments at all. You don't deserve a say. | |||
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"can i bring this topic right back full circle and ask the people who are going to vote tory what they like about the manifesto... is it just "all about brexit" and forget everything else.... just because for example.... on education spend alone.. the IFS have done the sums based on manifesto pledges.... and works out its actually a 4 billion pound real term cut.... i haven't heard one person back up the proposals on social care today.... or on taking Winter fuel payments not only from the rich (of which there was agreement) but on everyone except those on pension credit... or the "breakfast for lunch" swop on school meals.... or the cap on energy bills, which everyone hated when milliband proposed it.... or is everything just so fixated on "brexit" that they get a pass on everything else.... I am really just curious..... I think the Conservatives are banking on stolen UKIP votes and being greedy enough to try and steal a few Labour votes as they know the tide is starting to shift a little.. So they've tried to pull back closer to the centre. I feel they've over reached and are offering a mixed bag of bad news to everybody and trying to spray perfume on it. We all know that a manifesto like that promises hard times for those of us not directly effected from the newer changes. As things stand.. I personally don't gain or lose financially in either manifesto. However, I'm sure to lose massively three months afterwards if Conservatives get in.. as are the self employed.. Who they've already tried to hit whilst a manifesto promise was already in place! If you're earning under £50,000p/a then the Conservatives are coming at you like a great white after the election. And I can't afford anything else.. I'll lose my council home if that happens as I barely make ends meet now.. and I work 50+hrs a week. On the other side Labour are going for those who can afford to take a hit, afford to retrain, afford to downsize. " I'm self employed, earn well under 50,000 and there is only one serious option - Conservative. This forum seems to have an unusually high number of Labour voters, in the real world I know very few now and most people I know are fairly low paid and 'working class'. The main thing they have in common is realism and sense | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? They aren't the only two parties... If opinion polls are to be believed, they pretty much are. Well yes, but i was sort of agreeing with your analysis that both manifesto's are a bit shit really. We're just back to the ideological battles of the 70's / 80's and very few practical solutions to the real issues. I disagree - Labours Manifesto is actually quite middle of the road. The increase in Corporation Tax, for example, isn't that much, it's still less than Churchills (to name someone "ultra tory"), they want a state competitor in water, not wholesale nationalisation, and a mild increase in tax for top earners. I know the right jump up and down about the wealthy/businesses leaving, but at that level of taxation its hardly realistic -Plenty of European countries tax at that level and they still have businesses/the wealthy. And furthermore, we are the 5th biggest economy, it will still suit big buisiness to trade here, even if they do have to pay a bit more. 5th largest economy would be more impressive it if was a normal distribution. There are 15 countries in the world with a GDP over $1tn, anything less is insignificant to global trade. Only two countries are over $10tn and British GDP is 12.3% of American GDP. So basically 5th isn't saying much looking at it the way a business would. It only means that it is not an insignificant place to trade, and it is financially worthwhile to do so. After all, do countries with smaller economies not have Starbucks, Google, Amazon, HSBC etc, even at higher levels of tax? It's neither insignificant nor significant. Exactly the kind of place companies won't endure hassle to trade in but will trade in under the right conditions. And yet they dane to trade in smaller economies with higher corporation taxes. It's almost like businesses will go anywhere they can make a profit...
I think the average labour voter doesn't understand how easy it is to move money and profits between countries, I'm a pretty average person and yet i can do it. Corbyn's spending is predicated on the idea that people much wealthier and powerful than me won't do it. I find that hard to see.
After that.. I'm not responding to your comments at all. You don't deserve a say."Dont give up on brilliant its hard to leave the matrix.#One love | |||
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"4 in 10 kids who DIDN’T receive free lunches prior to infant provision were officially in poverty.There's also the stigma of free school meals.If everyone is free the poor kids dont stand out and get labeled because their parents are poor. So the government looked for ways to save money and decided children where the best and easiest target.They won't be voting for a decade so fuck them ... Alternatively just use the classrooms to teach kids not to bully poor kids... kinda what schools are there for... So shall we remove lunch from the day? I used to take a packed lunch to school, any particular reason that's no longer feasible? Yeah.Do the poor kids get vouchers for tesco sandwiches. Or pick them up at the gate.? Perhaps their parents could actually make sandwiches for them, cant be poor if they are buying them" I get free lunch and transport. Shouldn't kids get to eat for free? | |||
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" That, and having listened to the reaction to JCs interview on Jeremy Vines programme makes me think that it is likeley to be much closer than I previously thought. I tend to read my news, so I hadn't really heard him speak, but he seemed to come over really well - JV asked him questions and bugger me, if he didn't get an actual answer. Normally the phone in is a selection of "disgusted from Tonbridge Wells", but people seemed to like him. " Corbyn is more dangerous than people think. He's been active on social media for over a year. On Facebook he gets far more momentum than Theresa May and UKIP. I've seen him speak from the 80s when he was connectrd to my family's community through the leadership elections for Labour. He relies on facts, numbers and reality of the majority. I'm not a Labour fan and never voted Labour. However, he makes a strong argument to vote. | |||
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"It'll be a landslide. Can't wait for liberal lefty tears. It'll be like Brexit and Trump all over again "I don't think Theresa May will lose. But she May lose her majority advantage. The lefties would be happy is Labour has a bigger share to oppose. Already Corbyn has polled close to Ed and Tony's result. | |||
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"It'll be a landslide. Can't wait for liberal lefty tears. It'll be like Brexit and Trump all over again "Liberal and left are not the same... | |||
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" That, and having listened to the reaction to JCs interview on Jeremy Vines programme makes me think that it is likeley to be much closer than I previously thought. I tend to read my news, so I hadn't really heard him speak, but he seemed to come over really well - JV asked him questions and bugger me, if he didn't get an actual answer. Normally the phone in is a selection of "disgusted from Tonbridge Wells", but people seemed to like him. Corbyn is more dangerous than people think. He's been active on social media for over a year. On Facebook he gets far more momentum than Theresa May and UKIP. I've seen him speak from the 80s when he was connectrd to my family's community through the leadership elections for Labour. He relies on facts, numbers and reality of the majority. I'm not a Labour fan and never voted Labour. However, he makes a strong argument to vote." I'm in the same boat. I was 17 in 1997 and felt so betrayed by the Labour Party that I haven't voted for them since. I'm considering not spoiling a ballot paper for once. | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? They aren't the only two parties... If opinion polls are to be believed, they pretty much are. Well yes, but i was sort of agreeing with your analysis that both manifesto's are a bit shit really. We're just back to the ideological battles of the 70's / 80's and very few practical solutions to the real issues. I disagree - Labours Manifesto is actually quite middle of the road. The increase in Corporation Tax, for example, isn't that much, it's still less than Churchills (to name someone "ultra tory"), they want a state competitor in water, not wholesale nationalisation, and a mild increase in tax for top earners. I know the right jump up and down about the wealthy/businesses leaving, but at that level of taxation its hardly realistic -Plenty of European countries tax at that level and they still have businesses/the wealthy. And furthermore, we are the 5th biggest economy, it will still suit big buisiness to trade here, even if they do have to pay a bit more. 5th largest economy would be more impressive it if was a normal distribution. There are 15 countries in the world with a GDP over $1tn, anything less is insignificant to global trade. Only two countries are over $10tn and British GDP is 12.3% of American GDP. So basically 5th isn't saying much looking at it the way a business would. It only means that it is not an insignificant place to trade, and it is financially worthwhile to do so. After all, do countries with smaller economies not have Starbucks, Google, Amazon, HSBC etc, even at higher levels of tax? It's neither insignificant nor significant. Exactly the kind of place companies won't endure hassle to trade in but will trade in under the right conditions. And yet they dane to trade in smaller economies with higher corporation taxes. It's almost like businesses will go anywhere they can make a profit...
I think the average labour voter doesn't understand how easy it is to move money and profits between countries, I'm a pretty average person and yet i can do it. Corbyn's spending is predicated on the idea that people much wealthier and powerful than me won't do it. I find that hard to see.
After that.. I'm not responding to your comments at all. You don't deserve a say."Can't say I'm missing anything. You always go silent when i bring out real facts and figures from the real world and ask you why a socialist is happy spending more on interest than healthcare. You are bright when it comes to the future and global issues but your mind is 20-30 years ahead of the problems this election is about and you never seem to have any thoughts on dealing with the more mundane problems that most people care about. | |||
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"Liberal and left are not the same..." They often go hand in hand. But yes, point taken. Also aware that classic liberal and neo-liberal are different too. | |||
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"It'll be a landslide. Can't wait for liberal lefty tears. It'll be like Brexit and Trump all over again
Liberal and left are not the same..."Tru' dat | |||
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"It'll be a landslide. Can't wait for liberal lefty tears. It'll be like Brexit and Trump all over again
Liberal and left are not the same..."Indeed - you could very easily argue that the Conservative party are liberal. | |||
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"Indeed - you could very easily argue that the Conservative party are liberal. " Economically yes, very much so. Socially, much less so than say Labour. | |||
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"It'll be a landslide. Can't wait for liberal lefty tears. It'll be like Brexit and Trump all over again
Liberal and left are not the same...
Indeed - you could very easily argue that the Conservative party are liberal. "Agree, the conservative party is not very conservative. Liberal democrats are quite liberal but not very democratic, labour is doing what socialists always do. | |||
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" I'm self employed, earn well under 50,000 and there is only one serious option - Conservative. This forum seems to have an unusually high number of Labour voters, in the real world I know very few now and most people I know are fairly low paid and 'working class'. The main thing they have in common is realism and sense" okay.... so other than brexit, which of their other policies do you agree with.... or is it all about brexit? thats what i am trying to find out, because i see a lot of attack of the other side, but not so much the defeding of their own proposed policies... is it all about brexit? | |||
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"It'll be a landslide. Can't wait for liberal lefty tears. It'll be like Brexit and Trump all over again
Liberal and left are not the same...
Indeed - you could very easily argue that the Conservative party are liberal. "Many Dutch liberal parties are right wing. Party of freedom. Lol, it's in their Name!! | |||
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" I'm self employed, earn well under 50,000 and there is only one serious option - Conservative. This forum seems to have an unusually high number of Labour voters, in the real world I know very few now and most people I know are fairly low paid and 'working class'. The main thing they have in common is realism and sense okay.... so other than brexit, which of their other policies do you agree with.... or is it all about brexit? thats what i am trying to find out, because i see a lot of attack of the other side, but not so much the defeding of their own proposed policies... is it all about brexit?" For ukip voters yes it is all about Brexit and that's why they voted ukip before but will vote conservative this time. | |||
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" I'm self employed, earn well under 50,000 and there is only one serious option - Conservative. This forum seems to have an unusually high number of Labour voters, in the real world I know very few now and most people I know are fairly low paid and 'working class'. The main thing they have in common is realism and sense okay.... so other than brexit, which of their other policies do you agree with.... or is it all about brexit? thats what i am trying to find out, because i see a lot of attack of the other side, but not so much the defeding of their own proposed policies... is it all about brexit?" Still laugh at this position. Allegedly Corbyn voted Brexit and holds a brexit position. May voted remain. Who is less trusted with Brexit? | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? They aren't the only two parties... If opinion polls are to be believed, they pretty much are. Well yes, but i was sort of agreeing with your analysis that both manifesto's are a bit shit really. We're just back to the ideological battles of the 70's / 80's and very few practical solutions to the real issues. I disagree - Labours Manifesto is actually quite middle of the road. The increase in Corporation Tax, for example, isn't that much, it's still less than Churchills (to name someone "ultra tory"), they want a state competitor in water, not wholesale nationalisation, and a mild increase in tax for top earners. I know the right jump up and down about the wealthy/businesses leaving, but at that level of taxation its hardly realistic -Plenty of European countries tax at that level and they still have businesses/the wealthy. And furthermore, we are the 5th biggest economy, it will still suit big buisiness to trade here, even if they do have to pay a bit more. 5th largest economy would be more impressive it if was a normal distribution. There are 15 countries in the world with a GDP over $1tn, anything less is insignificant to global trade. Only two countries are over $10tn and British GDP is 12.3% of American GDP. So basically 5th isn't saying much looking at it the way a business would. It only means that it is not an insignificant place to trade, and it is financially worthwhile to do so. After all, do countries with smaller economies not have Starbucks, Google, Amazon, HSBC etc, even at higher levels of tax? It's neither insignificant nor significant. Exactly the kind of place companies won't endure hassle to trade in but will trade in under the right conditions. And yet they dane to trade in smaller economies with higher corporation taxes. It's almost like businesses will go anywhere they can make a profit...
I think the average labour voter doesn't understand how easy it is to move money and profits between countries, I'm a pretty average person and yet i can do it. Corbyn's spending is predicated on the idea that people much wealthier and powerful than me won't do it. I find that hard to see.
After that.. I'm not responding to your comments at all. You don't deserve a say.Dont give up on brilliant its hard to leave the matrix.#One love"Someone who attacks my values so fervently and makes crap up about what I've said is bad enough. But you expect that when talking politics. But to then openly admit to being a huge part of the problem.. abusing moving profits abroad? You're right.. in the matrix.. as one of the fucking machines.  | |||
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"It'll be a landslide. Can't wait for liberal lefty tears. It'll be like Brexit and Trump all over again
I don't think Theresa May will lose. But she May lose her majority advantage. The lefties would be happy is Labour has a bigger share to oppose. Already Corbyn has polled close to Ed and Tony's result."If that's Ed Balls then yes, he lost his seat at the last general election. | |||
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" I'm self employed, earn well under 50,000 and there is only one serious option - Conservative. This forum seems to have an unusually high number of Labour voters, in the real world I know very few now and most people I know are fairly low paid and 'working class'. The main thing they have in common is realism and sense okay.... so other than brexit, which of their other policies do you agree with.... or is it all about brexit? thats what i am trying to find out, because i see a lot of attack of the other side, but not so much the defeding of their own proposed policies... is it all about brexit? For ukip voters yes it is all about Brexit and that's why they voted ukip before but will vote conservative this time. " So; you'll vote for the Remainer, May? I'm sure that there's logic in there somewhere.... | |||
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" I'm self employed, earn well under 50,000 and there is only one serious option - Conservative. This forum seems to have an unusually high number of Labour voters, in the real world I know very few now and most people I know are fairly low paid and 'working class'. The main thing they have in common is realism and sense okay.... so other than brexit, which of their other policies do you agree with.... or is it all about brexit? thats what i am trying to find out, because i see a lot of attack of the other side, but not so much the defeding of their own proposed policies... is it all about brexit? For ukip voters yes it is all about Brexit and that's why they voted ukip before but will vote conservative this time. " so brexit at the disadvantage of everything else.... thank you.... thats what i was trying to find out... i am just wondering how blinkered where one topic became the be all and end all to the detrement of everything else... | |||
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"Strikes me as a manifesto of a party that knows it will probably get in power and have to make tough decisions to address long term issues. Instead of the other partys' who release a populist manifesto knowing they wont have to deliver." We clearly read a different Tory manifesto. The one I read was all over the shop. | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? They aren't the only two parties... If opinion polls are to be believed, they pretty much are. Well yes, but i was sort of agreeing with your analysis that both manifesto's are a bit shit really. We're just back to the ideological battles of the 70's / 80's and very few practical solutions to the real issues. I disagree - Labours Manifesto is actually quite middle of the road. The increase in Corporation Tax, for example, isn't that much, it's still less than Churchills (to name someone "ultra tory"), they want a state competitor in water, not wholesale nationalisation, and a mild increase in tax for top earners. I know the right jump up and down about the wealthy/businesses leaving, but at that level of taxation its hardly realistic -Plenty of European countries tax at that level and they still have businesses/the wealthy. And furthermore, we are the 5th biggest economy, it will still suit big buisiness to trade here, even if they do have to pay a bit more. 5th largest economy would be more impressive it if was a normal distribution. There are 15 countries in the world with a GDP over $1tn, anything less is insignificant to global trade. Only two countries are over $10tn and British GDP is 12.3% of American GDP. So basically 5th isn't saying much looking at it the way a business would. It only means that it is not an insignificant place to trade, and it is financially worthwhile to do so. After all, do countries with smaller economies not have Starbucks, Google, Amazon, HSBC etc, even at higher levels of tax? It's neither insignificant nor significant. Exactly the kind of place companies won't endure hassle to trade in but will trade in under the right conditions. And yet they dane to trade in smaller economies with higher corporation taxes. It's almost like businesses will go anywhere they can make a profit...
I think the average labour voter doesn't understand how easy it is to move money and profits between countries, I'm a pretty average person and yet i can do it. Corbyn's spending is predicated on the idea that people much wealthier and powerful than me won't do it. I find that hard to see.
After that.. I'm not responding to your comments at all. You don't deserve a say.Dont give up on brilliant its hard to leave the matrix.#One love
Someone who attacks my values so fervently and makes crap up about what I've said is bad enough.
But you expect that when talking politics.
But to then openly admit to being a huge part of the problem.. abusing moving profits abroad?
You're right.. in the matrix.. as one of the fucking machines. "It's hilarious to me that you get upset that people like me won't let people like you spend our money willy nilly. I pay plenty of tax, considerably more than you I'd wager. As I've said many times a tax to GDP ratio of 36% is plenty high enough for this country and the country needs to learn to live within its means or hurry up with AI development. | |||
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"Strikes me as a manifesto of a party that knows it will probably get in power and have to make tough decisions to address long term issues. Instead of the other partys' who release a populist manifesto knowing they wont have to deliver." But isn't this a populist time? Trump, brexit etc. Get with the times. | |||
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" For ukip voters yes it is all about Brexit and that's why they voted ukip before but will vote conservative this time. " ... that kinda gives me an understanding as to why in the leaders debate tonight every answer paul nuttall gave in the first 90 of the the 120 minute debate revolved around brexit and immigration, even when it was pointed out you are still going to need immigrants to look after you in the NHS, and likely Immigrants to built alot of theses houses you are proposing....... | |||
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" I'm self employed, earn well under 50,000 and there is only one serious option - Conservative. This forum seems to have an unusually high number of Labour voters, in the real world I know very few now and most people I know are fairly low paid and 'working class'. The main thing they have in common is realism and sense okay.... so other than brexit, which of their other policies do you agree with.... or is it all about brexit? thats what i am trying to find out, because i see a lot of attack of the other side, but not so much the defeding of their own proposed policies... is it all about brexit? Still laugh at this position. Allegedly Corbyn voted Brexit and holds a brexit position. May voted remain. Who is less trusted with Brexit?" Corbyn opposed the EU his whole career and then backed the remain campaign ergo he can't be trusted. Labour would keep the UK in the single market and the customs union which means we would still be subject to the EU free movement of people, still subject to EU rules and regulations and still over ruled by the European Court of Justice and we won't be able to sign our own trade deals outside of the EU. If you are going to stay in the single market and the customs union it means you are still really in the EU in all but name. Corbyn and Labours vision for Brexit is a sham and an insult to everyone who voted Leave in the referendum. | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? They aren't the only two parties... If opinion polls are to be believed, they pretty much are. Well yes, but i was sort of agreeing with your analysis that both manifesto's are a bit shit really. We're just back to the ideological battles of the 70's / 80's and very few practical solutions to the real issues. I disagree - Labours Manifesto is actually quite middle of the road. The increase in Corporation Tax, for example, isn't that much, it's still less than Churchills (to name someone "ultra tory"), they want a state competitor in water, not wholesale nationalisation, and a mild increase in tax for top earners. I know the right jump up and down about the wealthy/businesses leaving, but at that level of taxation its hardly realistic -Plenty of European countries tax at that level and they still have businesses/the wealthy. And furthermore, we are the 5th biggest economy, it will still suit big buisiness to trade here, even if they do have to pay a bit more. 5th largest economy would be more impressive it if was a normal distribution. There are 15 countries in the world with a GDP over $1tn, anything less is insignificant to global trade. Only two countries are over $10tn and British GDP is 12.3% of American GDP. So basically 5th isn't saying much looking at it the way a business would. It only means that it is not an insignificant place to trade, and it is financially worthwhile to do so. After all, do countries with smaller economies not have Starbucks, Google, Amazon, HSBC etc, even at higher levels of tax? It's neither insignificant nor significant. Exactly the kind of place companies won't endure hassle to trade in but will trade in under the right conditions. And yet they dane to trade in smaller economies with higher corporation taxes. It's almost like businesses will go anywhere they can make a profit...
I think the average labour voter doesn't understand how easy it is to move money and profits between countries, I'm a pretty average person and yet i can do it. Corbyn's spending is predicated on the idea that people much wealthier and powerful than me won't do it. I find that hard to see.
After that.. I'm not responding to your comments at all. You don't deserve a say.Dont give up on brilliant its hard to leave the matrix.#One love
Someone who attacks my values so fervently and makes crap up about what I've said is bad enough.
But you expect that when talking politics.
But to then openly admit to being a huge part of the problem.. abusing moving profits abroad?
You're right.. in the matrix.. as one of the fucking machines.
It's hilarious to me that you get upset that people like me won't let people like you spend our money willy nilly. I pay plenty of tax, considerably more than you I'd wager. As I've said many times a tax to GDP ratio of 36% is plenty high enough for this country and the country needs to learn to live within its means or hurry up with AI development."Jealous. I pay 40 to 50%. We're a pretty happy nation though. And our wages are significantly higher. | |||
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" I'm self employed, earn well under 50,000 and there is only one serious option - Conservative. This forum seems to have an unusually high number of Labour voters, in the real world I know very few now and most people I know are fairly low paid and 'working class'. The main thing they have in common is realism and sense okay.... so other than brexit, which of their other policies do you agree with.... or is it all about brexit? thats what i am trying to find out, because i see a lot of attack of the other side, but not so much the defeding of their own proposed policies... is it all about brexit? Still laugh at this position. Allegedly Corbyn voted Brexit and holds a brexit position. May voted remain. Who is less trusted with Brexit? Corbyn opposed the EU his whole career and then backed the remain campaign ergo he can't be trusted. Labour would keep the UK in the single market and the customs union which means we would still be subject to the EU free movement of people, still subject to EU rules and regulations and still over ruled by the European Court of Justice and we won't be able to sign our own trade deals outside of the EU. If you are going to stay in the single market and the customs union it means you are still really in the EU in all but name. Corbyn and Labours vision for Brexit is a sham and an insult to everyone who voted Leave in the referendum. " Do you not think that the remainer, May is doing her level best to stop Brexit with her "ultra-hard Brexit" approach? It can only lead to a "no deal" and then a "maybe we should have another referendum, in that case".... | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? They aren't the only two parties... If opinion polls are to be believed, they pretty much are. Well yes, but i was sort of agreeing with your analysis that both manifesto's are a bit shit really. We're just back to the ideological battles of the 70's / 80's and very few practical solutions to the real issues. I disagree - Labours Manifesto is actually quite middle of the road. The increase in Corporation Tax, for example, isn't that much, it's still less than Churchills (to name someone "ultra tory"), they want a state competitor in water, not wholesale nationalisation, and a mild increase in tax for top earners. I know the right jump up and down about the wealthy/businesses leaving, but at that level of taxation its hardly realistic -Plenty of European countries tax at that level and they still have businesses/the wealthy. And furthermore, we are the 5th biggest economy, it will still suit big buisiness to trade here, even if they do have to pay a bit more. 5th largest economy would be more impressive it if was a normal distribution. There are 15 countries in the world with a GDP over $1tn, anything less is insignificant to global trade. Only two countries are over $10tn and British GDP is 12.3% of American GDP. So basically 5th isn't saying much looking at it the way a business would. It only means that it is not an insignificant place to trade, and it is financially worthwhile to do so. After all, do countries with smaller economies not have Starbucks, Google, Amazon, HSBC etc, even at higher levels of tax? It's neither insignificant nor significant. Exactly the kind of place companies won't endure hassle to trade in but will trade in under the right conditions. And yet they dane to trade in smaller economies with higher corporation taxes. It's almost like businesses will go anywhere they can make a profit...
I think the average labour voter doesn't understand how easy it is to move money and profits between countries, I'm a pretty average person and yet i can do it. Corbyn's spending is predicated on the idea that people much wealthier and powerful than me won't do it. I find that hard to see.
After that.. I'm not responding to your comments at all. You don't deserve a say.Dont give up on brilliant its hard to leave the matrix.#One love
Someone who attacks my values so fervently and makes crap up about what I've said is bad enough.
But you expect that when talking politics.
But to then openly admit to being a huge part of the problem.. abusing moving profits abroad?
You're right.. in the matrix.. as one of the fucking machines.
It's hilarious to me that you get upset that people like me won't let people like you spend our money willy nilly. I pay plenty of tax, considerably more than you I'd wager. As I've said many times a tax to GDP ratio of 36% is plenty high enough for this country and the country needs to learn to live within its means or hurry up with AI development.
Jealous. I pay 40 to 50%. We're a pretty happy nation though. And our wages are significantly higher. "The netherlands tax to gdp ratio is 38% so ~2% difference. How do you think the dutch would feel about ramping up taxes significantly? | |||
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"To say I'm mildly perplexed by the Tory manifesto is a slight understatement. Given that the seem to be assured victory, I thought they'd bring out a run-of-the-mill Tory manifesto, but instead it's all over the place, with policies almost deliberatley designed to alienate their core voters.... Death duty returned by stealth? Pensions attacked? Don't they realise that Tory voters tend to be older? After all the clamour about the costing of Labours Manifesto, it appears that their MPs are also unable to explain how it is costed.... Do you think they were so convinced of their inevitable victory that they let the work experience boy write it? They aren't the only two parties... If opinion polls are to be believed, they pretty much are. Well yes, but i was sort of agreeing with your analysis that both manifesto's are a bit shit really. We're just back to the ideological battles of the 70's / 80's and very few practical solutions to the real issues. I disagree - Labours Manifesto is actually quite middle of the road. The increase in Corporation Tax, for example, isn't that much, it's still less than Churchills (to name someone "ultra tory"), they want a state competitor in water, not wholesale nationalisation, and a mild increase in tax for top earners. I know the right jump up and down about the wealthy/businesses leaving, but at that level of taxation its hardly realistic -Plenty of European countries tax at that level and they still have businesses/the wealthy. And furthermore, we are the 5th biggest economy, it will still suit big buisiness to trade here, even if they do have to pay a bit more. 5th largest economy would be more impressive it if was a normal distribution. There are 15 countries in the world with a GDP over $1tn, anything less is insignificant to global trade. Only two countries are over $10tn and British GDP is 12.3% of American GDP. So basically 5th isn't saying much looking at it the way a business would. It only means that it is not an insignificant place to trade, and it is financially worthwhile to do so. After all, do countries with smaller economies not have Starbucks, Google, Amazon, HSBC etc, even at higher levels of tax? It's neither insignificant nor significant. Exactly the kind of place companies won't endure hassle to trade in but will trade in under the right conditions. And yet they dane to trade in smaller economies with higher corporation taxes. It's almost like businesses will go anywhere they can make a profit...
I think the average labour voter doesn't understand how easy it is to move money and profits between countries, I'm a pretty average person and yet i can do it. Corbyn's spending is predicated on the idea that people much wealthier and powerful than me won't do it. I find that hard to see.
After that.. I'm not responding to your comments at all. You don't deserve a say.Dont give up on brilliant its hard to leave the matrix.#One love
Someone who attacks my values so fervently and makes crap up about what I've said is bad enough.
But you expect that when talking politics.
But to then openly admit to being a huge part of the problem.. abusing moving profits abroad?
You're right.. in the matrix.. as one of the fucking machines.
It's hilarious to me that you get upset that people like me won't let people like you spend our money willy nilly. I pay plenty of tax, considerably more than you I'd wager. As I've said many times a tax to GDP ratio of 36% is plenty high enough for this country and the country needs to learn to live within its means or hurry up with AI development."Please don't direct any comments at me. | |||
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" I'm self employed, earn well under 50,000 and there is only one serious option - Conservative. This forum seems to have an unusually high number of Labour voters, in the real world I know very few now and most people I know are fairly low paid and 'working class'. The main thing they have in common is realism and sense okay.... so other than brexit, which of their other policies do you agree with.... or is it all about brexit? thats what i am trying to find out, because i see a lot of attack of the other side, but not so much the defeding of their own proposed policies... is it all about brexit? Still laugh at this position. Allegedly Corbyn voted Brexit and holds a brexit position. May voted remain. Who is less trusted with Brexit? Corbyn opposed the EU his whole career and then backed the remain campaign ergo he can't be trusted. Labour would keep the UK in the single market and the customs union which means we would still be subject to the EU free movement of people, still subject to EU rules and regulations and still over ruled by the European Court of Justice and we won't be able to sign our own trade deals outside of the EU. If you are going to stay in the single market and the customs union it means you are still really in the EU in all but name. Corbyn and Labours vision for Brexit is a sham and an insult to everyone who voted Leave in the referendum. " but again..... that doesn't tell me anything other than brexit..... and that is where i am having trouble, working out if you support any of their other policies.......... so what else did you like about the manifesto? | |||
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" I'm self employed, earn well under 50,000 and there is only one serious option - Conservative. This forum seems to have an unusually high number of Labour voters, in the real world I know very few now and most people I know are fairly low paid and 'working class'. The main thing they have in common is realism and sense okay.... so other than brexit, which of their other policies do you agree with.... or is it all about brexit? thats what i am trying to find out, because i see a lot of attack of the other side, but not so much the defeding of their own proposed policies... is it all about brexit? Still laugh at this position. Allegedly Corbyn voted Brexit and holds a brexit position. May voted remain. Who is less trusted with Brexit? Corbyn opposed the EU his whole career and then backed the remain campaign ergo he can't be trusted. Labour would keep the UK in the single market and the customs union which means we would still be subject to the EU free movement of people, still subject to EU rules and regulations and still over ruled by the European Court of Justice and we won't be able to sign our own trade deals outside of the EU. If you are going to stay in the single market and the customs union it means you are still really in the EU in all but name. Corbyn and Labours vision for Brexit is a sham and an insult to everyone who voted Leave in the referendum. Do you not think that the remainer, May is doing her level best to stop Brexit with her "ultra-hard Brexit" approach? It can only lead to a "no deal" and then a "maybe we should have another referendum, in that case"...." That's where you are wrong in the event of no deal we simply just leave and trade on WTO terms with the EU. Theresa May has already said this and a contingency plan is being drawn up for the event of no deal by Theresa May's government. Personally I'd be happy with that outcome. The harder the Brexit the better as far as I'm concerned. | |||
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" I'm self employed, earn well under 50,000 and there is only one serious option - Conservative. This forum seems to have an unusually high number of Labour voters, in the real world I know very few now and most people I know are fairly low paid and 'working class'. The main thing they have in common is realism and sense okay.... so other than brexit, which of their other policies do you agree with.... or is it all about brexit? thats what i am trying to find out, because i see a lot of attack of the other side, but not so much the defeding of their own proposed policies... is it all about brexit? Still laugh at this position. Allegedly Corbyn voted Brexit and holds a brexit position. May voted remain. Who is less trusted with Brexit? Corbyn opposed the EU his whole career and then backed the remain campaign ergo he can't be trusted. Labour would keep the UK in the single market and the customs union which means we would still be subject to the EU free movement of people, still subject to EU rules and regulations and still over ruled by the European Court of Justice and we won't be able to sign our own trade deals outside of the EU. If you are going to stay in the single market and the customs union it means you are still really in the EU in all but name. Corbyn and Labours vision for Brexit is a sham and an insult to everyone who voted Leave in the referendum. Do you not think that the remainer, May is doing her level best to stop Brexit with her "ultra-hard Brexit" approach? It can only lead to a "no deal" and then a "maybe we should have another referendum, in that case".... That's where you are wrong in the event of no deal we simply just leave and trade on WTO terms with the EU. Theresa May has already said this and a contingency plan is being drawn up for the event of no deal by Theresa May's government. Personally I'd be happy with that outcome. The harder the Brexit the better as far as I'm concerned. " Since May have a good record in keeping her word. I thought people had Stockholm Syndrome. This sounds like Confirmation Bias. | |||
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"Wow,,, so the Tories idea of sorting out social care is not to help us, but to make us all pay for our own care!! This is shocking!!! Shall we call it a dementia tax, a cancer tax, a stroke tax?? Even thatcher didn't go this far " Actually you all pay for it now....if you have assets above £23.4k..... you pay until your assets are down to that...including selling your home. Happened to my exes aunt. The change is it now only if assets above £100k. And house doesn't need to be sold. After you dead it comes out of your estate. Read the document and not the headlines/sound bites. A lot of the other stuff in there is a bit risky tho....dropping the triple lock. Means testing fuel allowance will be easily spun against them... The swapping lunch for breakfast in schools seems daft on the surface...pointless even! | |||
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"Wow,,, so the Tories idea of sorting out social care is not to help us, but to make us all pay for our own care!! This is shocking!!! Shall we call it a dementia tax, a cancer tax, a stroke tax?? Even thatcher didn't go this far Actually you all pay for it now....if you have assets above £23.4k..... you pay until your assets are down to that...including selling your home. Happened to my exes aunt. The change is it now only if assets above £100k. And house doesn't need to be sold. After you dead it comes out of your estate. Read the document and not the headlines/sound bites. A lot of the other stuff in there is a bit risky tho....dropping the triple lock. Means testing fuel allowance will be easily spun against them... The swapping lunch for breakfast in schools seems daft on the surface...pointless even!" The problem with government and policies is that it sounds great on paper but when it comes to reality you may get screwed somewhere else. Not party related but the complexity of balancing the books. | |||
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" I'm self employed, earn well under 50,000 and there is only one serious option - Conservative. This forum seems to have an unusually high number of Labour voters, in the real world I know very few now and most people I know are fairly low paid and 'working class'. The main thing they have in common is realism and sense okay.... so other than brexit, which of their other policies do you agree with.... or is it all about brexit? thats what i am trying to find out, because i see a lot of attack of the other side, but not so much the defeding of their own proposed policies... is it all about brexit? Still laugh at this position. Allegedly Corbyn voted Brexit and holds a brexit position. May voted remain. Who is less trusted with Brexit? Corbyn opposed the EU his whole career and then backed the remain campaign ergo he can't be trusted. Labour would keep the UK in the single market and the customs union which means we would still be subject to the EU free movement of people, still subject to EU rules and regulations and still over ruled by the European Court of Justice and we won't be able to sign our own trade deals outside of the EU. If you are going to stay in the single market and the customs union it means you are still really in the EU in all but name. Corbyn and Labours vision for Brexit is a sham and an insult to everyone who voted Leave in the referendum. Do you not think that the remainer, May is doing her level best to stop Brexit with her "ultra-hard Brexit" approach? It can only lead to a "no deal" and then a "maybe we should have another referendum, in that case".... That's where you are wrong in the event of no deal we simply just leave and trade on WTO terms with the EU. Theresa May has already said this and a contingency plan is being drawn up for the event of no deal by Theresa May's government. Personally I'd be happy with that outcome. The harder the Brexit the better as far as I'm concerned. " Yes, because Theresa may is well known for keeping her word.
Mug. | |||
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"Wow,,, so the Tories idea of sorting out social care is not to help us, but to make us all pay for our own care!! This is shocking!!! Shall we call it a dementia tax, a cancer tax, a stroke tax?? Even thatcher didn't go this far Actually you all pay for it now....if you have assets above £23.4k..... you pay until your assets are down to that...including selling your home. Happened to my exes aunt. The change is it now only if assets above £100k. And house doesn't need to be sold. After you dead it comes out of your estate. " not quite true.... the 100k assets will include a valueation of your house..... so if you own the average house in the uk for example, which is 180,000, you would either be expected to come up with up to 80k for your own social care... or it comes out of your estate after you die...... | |||
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