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Lib Dem Tax Figures...maths check please!
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Just watched an interview on Sky News with lib dem spokesman (Lamb) on their policy to fund NHS.
1p extra on income tax.
During the interview it was said that 30 million workers would see an average tax rise of £1.50 per week. That's "two cups of coffee" (cheap coffee shops in lib dem land...but that's by the by).
This tax rise was touted as raising six billion.
Can someone check my maths please.... because I reckon:
£1.50 x 52 = £78.00
30 000 000 x £78.00 = £2.3 billion.
At least he is a bit closer with his figures than Dianne Abbott! |
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Not the old penny on income tax shit from the Limp Dims again.
That was all they could think of when Ashdown was at the helm.
Penny on income tax for this, penny on income tax for that, penny on income tax for the other.
I'm sure they were trying to find 100 things that they could put a penny on income tax for.  |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Easy to have a pop at the policy as they won't be governing.... my problem is with the maths.
Are there no politicians who can add up?"
slow down my friend.... not quite as simple as that...
1p on each rate of income tax.... 
otherwise high earners would end up paying a proportionally lower rate.....
if as they have said all that money will go directly to the nhs and social care i have no issue with it...
at least they are being honest about a tax increase... it is more than you would get from most political parties.... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I get they are being honest about a tax rise. I pretty much agree it may be needed.
I'm not having a go at the policy...so please don't misinterpret what I'm asking.
The guy said it would "average" £1.50 per week. He also said there are 30 million tax payers.
He stated it would raise six billion.
I haven't checked on any of these figures. But taking his word it simply doesn't add up.... just do the math! (Assuming my calculatiobs are right).
My question was are all politicians generically innumerate? |
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By *ax777Man
over a year ago
Not here |
According to a report I've seen, 1 percentage point on all rates of tax would raise an additional £5.5 billion pounds, £4.2billion from standard rate payers, £1.2b from higher rates payers and 0.1b from additional rate payers.
There are approx 30 million uk taxpayers, of which 4.1m are higher rate payers and .333M additional rate payers.
If my maths are correct, the standard rate tax take increase per taxpayer would equate to £140 per year or £2.69 per week. |
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"According to a report I've seen, 1 percentage point on all rates of tax would raise an additional £5.5 billion pounds, £4.2billion from standard rate payers, £1.2b from higher rates payers and 0.1b from additional rate payers.
There are approx 30 million uk taxpayers, of which 4.1m are higher rate payers and .333M additional rate payers.
If my maths are correct, the standard rate tax take increase per taxpayer would equate to £140 per year or £2.69 per week."
Nice maths, but why should higher rate tax payers pay at least 2p, do they get an enhanced service from the NHS |
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By *ax777Man
over a year ago
Not here |
"According to a report I've seen, 1 percentage point on all rates of tax would raise an additional £5.5 billion pounds, £4.2billion from standard rate payers, £1.2b from higher rates payers and 0.1b from additional rate payers.
There are approx 30 million uk taxpayers, of which 4.1m are higher rate payers and .333M additional rate payers.
If my maths are correct, the standard rate tax take increase per taxpayer would equate to £140 per year or £2.69 per week.
Nice maths, but why should higher rate tax payers pay at least 2p, do they get an enhanced service from the NHS"
I merely quoted the figures. I never commented on the fairness ( or not ) of them.
If the figures are correct, higher tax payers would pay an additional £432 per year ( £140 + £292) |
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"According to a report I've seen, 1 percentage point on all rates of tax would raise an additional £5.5 billion pounds, £4.2billion from standard rate payers, £1.2b from higher rates payers and 0.1b from additional rate payers.
There are approx 30 million uk taxpayers, of which 4.1m are higher rate payers and .333M additional rate payers.
If my maths are correct, the standard rate tax take increase per taxpayer would equate to £140 per year or £2.69 per week.
Nice maths, but why should higher rate tax payers pay at least 2p, do they get an enhanced service from the NHS"
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need...... |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
Tim Farron has said it will be £3, or the equivalent of a pint of beer a week for the average worker. He says that the average worker can afford that.
But that it will not apply in Scotland.
The IFS say it is the average earner will be 0.6 % worse off.
So the Lib Dems, who have been bleating about pay rises not keeping up with inflation for years now, and that people cannot afford to live, are now saying people can easily afford a cut in their income? |
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"According to a report I've seen, 1 percentage point on all rates of tax would raise an additional £5.5 billion pounds, £4.2billion from standard rate payers, £1.2b from higher rates payers and 0.1b from additional rate payers.
There are approx 30 million uk taxpayers, of which 4.1m are higher rate payers and .333M additional rate payers.
If my maths are correct, the standard rate tax take increase per taxpayer would equate to £140 per year or £2.69 per week.
Nice maths, but why should higher rate tax payers pay at least 2p, do they get an enhanced service from the NHS
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need......"
The policy that has financially ruined every country that tried it  |
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By *G LanaTV/TS
over a year ago
Gosport |
According to the Institute of Foscal Studies the UK revenue from income tax is £182.1 billion (Nov 2016 briefing).
Accoring to the OECD the UK average income tax rate is calculated to be 30.8%. Which is pretty low the OECD average was 35.9% in 2015, the US (31.7%) and Canada (31.6%), but above that of Ireland (27. 5%).
So lets assume this is going to raise the average income tax rate by 1p in the pound so the average increase to 31.8%, then 182.1/30.8×31.8=188.13 or an increase of £6.03 billon. So the underlying maths seems to be reasonable from this approach. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"According to the Institute of Foscal Studies the UK revenue from income tax is £182.1 billion (Nov 2016 briefing).
Accoring to the OECD the UK average income tax rate is calculated to be 30.8%. Which is pretty low the OECD average was 35.9% in 2015, the US (31.7%) and Canada (31.6%), but above that of Ireland (27. 5%).
So lets assume this is going to raise the average income tax rate by 1p in the pound so the average increase to 31.8%, then 182.1/30.8×31.8=188.13 or an increase of £6.03 billon. So the underlying maths seems to be reasonable from this approach. "
These figures do indeed look fine.
I was questioning the combination of figures given in the sky interview. They did NOT add up.
Was it misleading....or "mis-speaking" |
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"According to the Institute of Foscal Studies the UK revenue from income tax is £182.1 billion (Nov 2016 briefing).
Accoring to the OECD the UK average income tax rate is calculated to be 30.8%. Which is pretty low the OECD average was 35.9% in 2015, the US (31.7%) and Canada (31.6%), but above that of Ireland (27. 5%).
So lets assume this is going to raise the average income tax rate by 1p in the pound so the average increase to 31.8%, then 182.1/30.8×31.8=188.13 or an increase of £6.03 billon. So the underlying maths seems to be reasonable from this approach. "
Tax to GDP ratio is a better way of comparing countries since the UK has so much damn indirect tax. By that measure the UK is significantly higher than the US, higher than Canada and Ireland. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"According to a report I've seen, 1 percentage point on all rates of tax would raise an additional £5.5 billion pounds, £4.2billion from standard rate payers, £1.2b from higher rates payers and 0.1b from additional rate payers.
There are approx 30 million uk taxpayers, of which 4.1m are higher rate payers and .333M additional rate payers.
If my maths are correct, the standard rate tax take increase per taxpayer would equate to £140 per year or £2.69 per week.
Nice maths, but why should higher rate tax payers pay at least 2p, do they get an enhanced service from the NHS"
a )look at the figures above as someone did a brilliant job of explaining....
b) higher tax rate payers you not being paying 2p extra.... what would end happening is that income tax would go up by 1p from 20 to 21p on income between 11600 and 45000, and then from 40 to 41p on income from 45000 to 161000, and then from 45 to 46p from 161000 up.....
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Tim Farron has said it will be £3, or the equivalent of a pint of beer a week for the average worker. He says that the average worker can afford that.
But that it will not apply in Scotland.
The IFS say it is the average earner will be 0.6 % worse off.
So the Lib Dems, who have been bleating about pay rises not keeping up with inflation for years now, and that people cannot afford to live, are now saying people can easily afford a cut in their income?"
actually that is some incredible spin for some different reasons....
a) the reason it would not neccessarily apply to scotland is that scottish government now have control of their own income tax rates where they are allow to differ their rates (if they want to) by up to +/- 3p
little thing called devolution....
b) based in the figures they used for the 17/18 tax increases.... at that point inflation was 1.5%, average rate of earnings was 2.4%,
although this govt you support remember have capped public secotor pay rises to 1%... and the reason why inflation is jumped in the last couple of months has been the devaluation in the pound caused by "you know what!"
so no offence but you are being a bit disingenious.... |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
Firstly, I am right in saying that it doesn't apply to Scotland. If they wanted to be fair and equal, they would apply it to everyone.
Secondly, exacting more tax at source from anyone's income reduces that income. The IFS have said that this will reduce an average wage earners income by 0.6%.
I don't take any offence from what you said. However, I do think that you shouldn't assume someone's politics. You say I support the Tories. I have never voted Tory in my life. So please don't assume that because I am commenting on Lib Dem policies that I am a true blue. That kind of assumption only reflects poorly on the person making it. Maybe it's not me being disingenuous. .... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If we want acceptable social care and an NHS, eventually taxes will have to rise to pay for it. Either that or people will have to start paying fees for doctor appointments, A&E visits etc like in some other European countries. In an effort to make sections more productive and cut back on waste.
There is no getting around it. There are a lot of baby boomers about to reach their late 60's between now and 2030 - the strain on the pension bill and subsequently NHS will be even bigger.
All the major political parties need to take an objective and honest stance on this. |
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"If we want acceptable social care and an NHS, eventually taxes will have to rise to pay for it.
"
Yes we do
"
Either that or people will have to start paying fees for doctor appointments, A&E visits etc like in some other European countries. In an effort to make sections more productive and cut back on waste.
There is no getting around it. There are a lot of baby boomers about to reach their late 60's between now and 2030 - the strain on the pension bill and subsequently NHS will be even bigger.
All the major political parties need to take an objective and honest stance on this. "
They won't |
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