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The subject of labour.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Regardless of what happens to labour and the conservative party, between now and June, I doubt that anyone but the greatest of optimists or zealots can imagine labour winning the GE - it would take a stroke of luck really.
Given this, have any of the more centre or left leaning individuals on here been searching for a new political home in the, quite possible event that labour comes out of this not just beat, but in possible disarray for a year or more and a new left leaning opposition is needed asap.
I know many say the lib dems, but I'm 40% certain they could be kept as a minority party after this GE.
So I found out that a constituency near me has a liberal party councillor, and few others do as well. Just wondering if anyone thinks whether, in the even labour crumbles even more, the traditional liberal party might become the opposition and contender for leadership. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Regardless of what happens to labour and the conservative party, between now and June, I doubt that anyone but the greatest of optimists or zealots can imagine labour winning the GE - it would take a stroke of luck really.
Given this, have any of the more centre or left leaning individuals on here been searching for a new political home in the, quite possible event that labour comes out of this not just beat, but in possible disarray for a year or more and a new left leaning opposition is needed asap.
I know many say the lib dems, but I'm 40% certain they could be kept as a minority party after this GE.
So I found out that a constituency near me has a liberal party councillor, and few others do as well. Just wondering if anyone thinks whether, in the even labour crumbles even more, the traditional liberal party might become the opposition and contender for leadership. "
In the early 1980's there was a breakaway from the Labour Party called the SDP (Social Democratic Party). Despite its best intentions it could not gain traction and within a few months formed an alliance with the Liberal Party and not long after they formally merged to become the Liberal Democrats.
The Liberals (now Lib Dems) have always been good a local issues. Unfortunately, despite the failings in the Conservative Party now, Labour is not an opposition party with any credibility and the Lib Dems are just too lightweight.
Truth is we are in a pickle and it is astonishing that in a country of 65,000,000 we cant do any better than what we are at the moment with these people. |
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By *nfinity1Man
over a year ago
Near Bournemouth |
"Regardless of what happens to labour and the conservative party, between now and June, I doubt that anyone but the greatest of optimists or zealots can imagine labour winning the GE - it would take a stroke of luck really.
Given this, have any of the more centre or left leaning individuals on here been searching for a new political home in the, quite possible event that labour comes out of this not just beat, but in possible disarray for a year or more and a new left leaning opposition is needed asap.
I know many say the lib dems, but I'm 40% certain they could be kept as a minority party after this GE.
So I found out that a constituency near me has a liberal party councillor, and few others do as well. Just wondering if anyone thinks whether, in the even labour crumbles even more, the traditional liberal party might become the opposition and contender for leadership.
In the early 1980's there was a breakaway from the Labour Party called the SDP (Social Democratic Party). Despite its best intentions it could not gain traction and within a few months formed an alliance with the Liberal Party and not long after they formally merged to become the Liberal Democrats.
The Liberals (now Lib Dems) have always been good a local issues. Unfortunately, despite the failings in the Conservative Party now, Labour is not an opposition party with any credibility and the Lib Dems are just too lightweight.
Truth is we are in a pickle and it is astonishing that in a country of 65,000,000 we cant do any better than what we are at the moment with these people. "
To be honest it doesn't matter who you vote for as we're run by corporations not the so called government. Any vote is a wasted vote. |
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To be honest it doesn't matter who you vote for as we're run by corporations not the so called government. Any vote is a wasted vote."
Which corporations specifically? Who are the top 5 most influential in this country? |
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By *nfinity1Man
over a year ago
Near Bournemouth |
"
To be honest it doesn't matter who you vote for as we're run by corporations not the so called government. Any vote is a wasted vote.
Which corporations specifically? Who are the top 5 most influential in this country? "
Rothschild and JP Morgan to name two plus there is the Crown and may others. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
To be honest it doesn't matter who you vote for as we're run by corporations not the so called government. Any vote is a wasted vote.
Which corporations specifically? Who are the top 5 most influential in this country? "
.
Royal Dutch shell
Bae
Rbs
Astra zeneca
Google
|
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Regardless of what happens to labour and the conservative party, between now and June, I doubt that anyone but the greatest of optimists or zealots can imagine labour winning the GE - it would take a stroke of luck really.
Given this, have any of the more centre or left leaning individuals on here been searching for a new political home in the, quite possible event that labour comes out of this not just beat, but in possible disarray for a year or more and a new left leaning opposition is needed asap.
I know many say the lib dems, but I'm 40% certain they could be kept as a minority party after this GE.
So I found out that a constituency near me has a liberal party councillor, and few others do as well. Just wondering if anyone thinks whether, in the even labour crumbles even more, the traditional liberal party might become the opposition and contender for leadership. "
Yes I can see this happening I feel that unless there is a big shock in the election the labour party will disintegrate and be become a left wing small irrevilent party like the greens(sorry green fans) |
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To be honest it doesn't matter who you vote for as we're run by corporations not the so called government. Any vote is a wasted vote.
Which corporations specifically? Who are the top 5 most influential in this country?
Rothschild and JP Morgan to name two plus there is the Crown and may others."
Well let's ignore the crown since that's not a corporation. Which Rothschild corporation are you talking about? What powers does JP Morgan have in the UK? |
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To be honest it doesn't matter who you vote for as we're run by corporations not the so called government. Any vote is a wasted vote.
Which corporations specifically? Who are the top 5 most influential in this country? .
Royal Dutch shell
Bae
Rbs
Astra zeneca
Google
"
RBS is owned by the government so I'm not sure what power that gives them over the politicians? Google is nothing more than a popular website that doesn't even have the power to stop itself being blocked in the country with the worlds largest number of web users. BAE systems makes a below average net profit and couldn't even pull off a merger with airbus that it wanted because Angela Merkel wasn't for it.
So forgive me but i think you've picked poor examples of companies that supposedly have more power than politicians. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
To be honest it doesn't matter who you vote for as we're run by corporations not the so called government. Any vote is a wasted vote.
Which corporations specifically? Who are the top 5 most influential in this country? .
Royal Dutch shell
Bae
Rbs
Astra zeneca
Google
RBS is owned by the government so I'm not sure what power that gives them over the politicians? Google is nothing more than a popular website that doesn't even have the power to stop itself being blocked in the country with the worlds largest number of web users. BAE systems makes a below average net profit and couldn't even pull off a merger with airbus that it wanted because Angela Merkel wasn't for it.
So forgive me but i think you've picked poor examples of companies that supposedly have more power than politicians. "
.
You wanted the top 5 most influential?.
Rbs managed to convince the government they needed? less regulation made a fucking fortune from it, then convince the govt and the public that we had to spend everything and the rest to bail them out and that we absolutely definitely couldnt live without them and that they'll definitely pay us back?.
This is how giant multinationals work, bae constantly brake the law just like rbs did and shell do and hardly ever face criminal prosecution and the odd occasion that they do they decide there own fine!.. Hallelujah, I'd love that influence myself the next time the police pull me up?.
Shell along with the rest have pretty much set public policy on global c02 emissions for 40 years, I mean sure govt meet and say shit but they are told by the oil giants what the policy will be and what cuts they can allow!.
Astra zeneca along with the other pharmaceuticals set drug prices, they constantly get found out for bribing doctors and health workers and generally ripping off the NHS, nothing ever comes of it, they own the fucking Lancet, nobody ever gets punished for serious wrong doing except some tosser GP occasionally gets thrown to the wolves to keep the appearance up!.
Google or to be correct alphabet is a case on its own, it practically has monopolies over what the public read and watch, which is the most dangerous of all, I dont think they are bad but they have the ability to be very bad and certainly have far more influence than most politicans if not all of them.
Governments are short term here today gone tomorrow mouthpieces for people inside the government, always have been always will be
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Most tech giants have 20 year long term strategies for the evolution and implementation of what there working on, they spend billions in this shit.. To imagine they do all this without having control of government policies which would make and break that investment is just plain crazy |
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"
To be honest it doesn't matter who you vote for as we're run by corporations not the so called government. Any vote is a wasted vote.
Which corporations specifically? Who are the top 5 most influential in this country? .
Royal Dutch shell
Bae
Rbs
Astra zeneca
Google
RBS is owned by the government so I'm not sure what power that gives them over the politicians? Google is nothing more than a popular website that doesn't even have the power to stop itself being blocked in the country with the worlds largest number of web users. BAE systems makes a below average net profit and couldn't even pull off a merger with airbus that it wanted because Angela Merkel wasn't for it.
So forgive me but i think you've picked poor examples of companies that supposedly have more power than politicians. .
You wanted the top 5 most influential?.
Rbs managed to convince the government they needed? less regulation made a fucking fortune from it, then convince the govt and the public that we had to spend everything and the rest to bail them out and that we absolutely definitely couldnt live without them and that they'll definitely pay us back?.
This is how giant multinationals work, bae constantly brake the law just like rbs did and shell do and hardly ever face criminal prosecution and the odd occasion that they do they decide there own fine!.. Hallelujah, I'd love that influence myself the next time the police pull me up?.
Shell along with the rest have pretty much set public policy on global c02 emissions for 40 years, I mean sure govt meet and say shit but they are told by the oil giants what the policy will be and what cuts they can allow!.
Astra zeneca along with the other pharmaceuticals set drug prices, they constantly get found out for bribing doctors and health workers and generally ripping off the NHS, nothing ever comes of it, they own the fucking Lancet, nobody ever gets punished for serious wrong doing except some tosser GP occasionally gets thrown to the wolves to keep the appearance up!.
Google or to be correct alphabet is a case on its own, it practically has monopolies over what the public read and watch, which is the most dangerous of all, I dont think they are bad but they have the ability to be very bad and certainly have far more influence than most politicans if not all of them.
Governments are short term here today gone tomorrow mouthpieces for people inside the government, always have been always will be
"
The context was the assertion that voting is pointless because corporations control politicians. None of your examples demonstrate a private company controlling politics.
The financial crash did not happen due to a lack of regulation. It happened do to a lack of enforcing the regulation that existed. Al-Yamamah was a government to government deal so BAE were contracted by the British government who took care of all the bribes for them, that's why they haven't been prosecuted.
You're just pointing out examples of government and regulatory incompetence, of which there is a lot, rather than evidence these companies are above politicians and dictating to them. |
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"Most tech giants have 20 year long term strategies for the evolution and implementation of what there working on, they spend billions in this shit.. To imagine they do all this without having control of government policies which would make and break that investment is just plain crazy"
They lobby. Sometimes lobbying works and sometimes it doesn't. Google have achieved fuck all from their lobbying in China, as have Facebook. BAE have achieved fuck all in america, except paying hundreds of millions in fines. RBS and Lloyds pulled off a masterpiece (at our expense) convincing idiot politicians to bail them out. I see no pattern of control though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Most tech giants have 20 year long term strategies for the evolution and implementation of what there working on, they spend billions in this shit.. To imagine they do all this without having control of government policies which would make and break that investment is just plain crazy
They lobby. Sometimes lobbying works and sometimes it doesn't. Google have achieved fuck all from their lobbying in China, as have Facebook. BAE have achieved fuck all in america, except paying hundreds of millions in fines. RBS and Lloyds pulled off a masterpiece (at our expense) convincing idiot politicians to bail them out. I see no pattern of control though. "
.
Ahhh but thats where your wrong!.
Its not that the lobbying (bribes) didnt work, its that they were out bribed by the competition!.
Very few governments turn down the advances of the big guns unless another big gun already has there eye  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Case and point.
For decades polls have shown that the majority of the united states favours harder gun control regulations.
However a small wealthier bunch favour selling lots more guns.
Which policy do they get? |
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"Most tech giants have 20 year long term strategies for the evolution and implementation of what there working on, they spend billions in this shit.. To imagine they do all this without having control of government policies which would make and break that investment is just plain crazy
They lobby. Sometimes lobbying works and sometimes it doesn't. Google have achieved fuck all from their lobbying in China, as have Facebook. BAE have achieved fuck all in america, except paying hundreds of millions in fines. RBS and Lloyds pulled off a masterpiece (at our expense) convincing idiot politicians to bail them out. I see no pattern of control though. .
Ahhh but thats where your wrong!.
Its not that the lobbying (bribes) didnt work, its that they were out bribed by the competition!.
Very few governments turn down the advances of the big guns unless another big gun already has there eye "
Ok so roughly when did this corporate collusion begin? Just round it to the nearest 25 years of you can. Nearest 50 will be fine if not. Obviously nobody could know the precise date. |
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"Case and point.
For decades polls have shown that the majority of the united states favours harder gun control regulations.
However a small wealthier bunch favour selling lots more guns.
Which policy do they get?"
Well that's a simple semantic trick right there. It's the same logical fallacy as saying "the majority of people favour a fairer tax system!" |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Case and point.
For decades polls have shown that the majority of the united states favours harder gun control regulations.
However a small wealthier bunch favour selling lots more guns.
Which policy do they get?
Well that's a simple semantic trick right there. It's the same logical fallacy as saying "the majority of people favour a fairer tax system!" "
My favourite:
"50 percent of people are stupider than average"
-Matt |
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"Case and point.
For decades polls have shown that the majority of the united states favours harder gun control regulations.
However a small wealthier bunch favour selling lots more guns.
Which policy do they get?
Well that's a simple semantic trick right there. It's the same logical fallacy as saying "the majority of people favour a fairer tax system!"
My favourite:
"50 percent of people are stupider than average"
-Matt"
According to YouGov, only 2% of people think they are below average intelligence. 68% of lib dem voters think they are above average compared to just 48% of labour voters, albiet we should be wary of the sample sizes. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Regardless of what happens to labour and the conservative party, between now and June, I doubt that anyone but the greatest of optimists or zealots can imagine labour winning the GE - it would take a stroke of luck really.
Given this, have any of the more centre or left leaning individuals on here been searching for a new political home in the, quite possible event that labour comes out of this not just beat, but in possible disarray for a year or more and a new left leaning opposition is needed asap.
I know many say the lib dems, but I'm 40% certain they could be kept as a minority party after this GE.
So I found out that a constituency near me has a liberal party councillor, and few others do as well. Just wondering if anyone thinks whether, in the even labour crumbles even more, the traditional liberal party might become the opposition and contender for leadership.
In the early 1980's there was a breakaway from the Labour Party called the SDP (Social Democratic Party). Despite its best intentions it could not gain traction and within a few months formed an alliance with the Liberal Party and not long after they formally merged to become the Liberal Democrats.
The Liberals (now Lib Dems) have always been good a local issues. Unfortunately, despite the failings in the Conservative Party now, Labour is not an opposition party with any credibility and the Lib Dems are just too lightweight.
Truth is we are in a pickle and it is astonishing that in a country of 65,000,000 we cant do any better than what we are at the moment with these people. "
Around my neck of the woods and in Wales and Bristol I think there are still a few Liberal party councillors who have kept the party separate from the lib dems. Whenever they put anything out it seems to hit the rail on the head to me. |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
People will vote Labour as Corbyn doesn't speak the Conservative rhetoric. Blair won his election due to media credentials. Corbyn is the bullied underdog. I don't think people realise the impact having a failed or bad Brexit will have when they vote.
When you are in opposition, you can promise Eden then blame the current Govt for the finances but the Conservatives can never speak to the everyMan. The Cons only ever get in when the shit stinks and politics needs a change. Look at Cameron, all he said was; we are coming out of the EU - not the effects exiting. If May doesn't relate that the Brexit happening in two years affects all our lives, she will simply lose votes and gain more protestation.
N.B. I cannot imagine the world Corbyn would be handed should he get in. Could you imagine: Corbyn PM - has to be up to speed immediately, talking with delegates and handling one the biggest negotiations of the UK's history on his first day. Not least balancing the books.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was more D. Abbott type sabotage to come. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Most tech giants have 20 year long term strategies for the evolution and implementation of what there working on, they spend billions in this shit.. To imagine they do all this without having control of government policies which would make and break that investment is just plain crazy
They lobby. Sometimes lobbying works and sometimes it doesn't. Google have achieved fuck all from their lobbying in China, as have Facebook. BAE have achieved fuck all in america, except paying hundreds of millions in fines. RBS and Lloyds pulled off a masterpiece (at our expense) convincing idiot politicians to bail them out. I see no pattern of control though. .
Ahhh but thats where your wrong!.
Its not that the lobbying (bribes) didnt work, its that they were out bribed by the competition!.
Very few governments turn down the advances of the big guns unless another big gun already has there eye
Ok so roughly when did this corporate collusion begin? Just round it to the nearest 25 years of you can. Nearest 50 will be fine if not. Obviously nobody could know the precise date. "
.
Just for you, I would say roughly, June 1978! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Case and point.
For decades polls have shown that the majority of the united states favours harder gun control regulations.
However a small wealthier bunch favour selling lots more guns.
Which policy do they get?
Well that's a simple semantic trick right there. It's the same logical fallacy as saying "the majority of people favour a fairer tax system!"
My favourite:
"50 percent of people are stupider than average"
-Matt"
.
Which 50% are you in? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Case and point.
For decades polls have shown that the majority of the united states favours harder gun control regulations.
However a small wealthier bunch favour selling lots more guns.
Which policy do they get?
Well that's a simple semantic trick right there. It's the same logical fallacy as saying "the majority of people favour a fairer tax system!"
My favourite:
"50 percent of people are stupider than average"
-Matt
According to YouGov, only 2% of people think they are below average intelligence. 68% of lib dem voters think they are above average compared to just 48% of labour voters, albiet we should be wary of the sample sizes. "
.
Say no more here's a poll!..68% THINK there smart!!.
Slap yourselves on the back for being top of your class, you should inherit the earth you bunch of go getters, where would we be without you? |
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To be honest it doesn't matter who you vote for as we're run by corporations not the so called government. Any vote is a wasted vote.
Which corporations specifically? Who are the top 5 most influential in this country?
Rothschild and JP Morgan to name two plus there is the Crown and may others.
Well let's ignore the crown since that's not a corporation. Which Rothschild corporation are you talking about? What powers does JP Morgan have in the UK? "
I think you'll find that the crown is a company. |
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"
To be honest it doesn't matter who you vote for as we're run by corporations not the so called government. Any vote is a wasted vote.
Which corporations specifically? Who are the top 5 most influential in this country?
Rothschild and JP Morgan to name two plus there is the Crown and may others.
Well let's ignore the crown since that's not a corporation. Which Rothschild corporation are you talking about? What powers does JP Morgan have in the UK?
I think you'll find that the crown is a company."
Sorry you are right, i stand corrected. |
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"Most tech giants have 20 year long term strategies for the evolution and implementation of what there working on, they spend billions in this shit.. To imagine they do all this without having control of government policies which would make and break that investment is just plain crazy
They lobby. Sometimes lobbying works and sometimes it doesn't. Google have achieved fuck all from their lobbying in China, as have Facebook. BAE have achieved fuck all in america, except paying hundreds of millions in fines. RBS and Lloyds pulled off a masterpiece (at our expense) convincing idiot politicians to bail them out. I see no pattern of control though. .
Ahhh but thats where your wrong!.
Its not that the lobbying (bribes) didnt work, its that they were out bribed by the competition!.
Very few governments turn down the advances of the big guns unless another big gun already has there eye
Ok so roughly when did this corporate collusion begin? Just round it to the nearest 25 years of you can. Nearest 50 will be fine if not. Obviously nobody could know the precise date. .
Just for you, I would say roughly, June 1978!"
Ok so what changed in the 70's / 80's to enable it to happen? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"People will vote Labour as Corbyn doesn't speak the Conservative rhetoric. Blair won his election due to media credentials. Corbyn is the bullied underdog. I don't think people realise the impact having a failed or bad Brexit will have when they vote.
When you are in opposition, you can promise Eden then blame the current Govt for the finances but the Conservatives can never speak to the everyMan. The Cons only ever get in when the shit stinks and politics needs a change. Look at Cameron, all he said was; we are coming out of the EU - not the effects exiting. If May doesn't relate that the Brexit happening in two years affects all our lives, she will simply lose votes and gain more protestation.
N.B. I cannot imagine the world Corbyn would be handed should he get in. Could you imagine: Corbyn PM - has to be up to speed immediately, talking with delegates and handling one the biggest negotiations of the UK's history on his first day. Not least balancing the books.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was more D. Abbott type sabotage to come. "
Cameron didn't say we are coming out of the EU. He did however promise a referendum on the subject. As Brown did...before he signed anymore treaties. Then promptly signing a shit load of extra powers over by signing the Lisbon Treaty.
Cameron kept his word, gave us a referendum and campaigned very strongly to keep us IN the EU.
Maybe if Corbyn had been more clear the vote would have gone the other way? Who knows?
The vote to leave the EU was taken by the people, against the wishes of Cameron (and May). Cameron lost the argument and resigned. May took over and as PM now has to carry out the wishes of the majority. Against her own instincts.....as she campaigned to remain but has accepted the result. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Most tech giants have 20 year long term strategies for the evolution and implementation of what there working on, they spend billions in this shit.. To imagine they do all this without having control of government policies which would make and break that investment is just plain crazy
They lobby. Sometimes lobbying works and sometimes it doesn't. Google have achieved fuck all from their lobbying in China, as have Facebook. BAE have achieved fuck all in america, except paying hundreds of millions in fines. RBS and Lloyds pulled off a masterpiece (at our expense) convincing idiot politicians to bail them out. I see no pattern of control though. .
Ahhh but thats where your wrong!.
Its not that the lobbying (bribes) didnt work, its that they were out bribed by the competition!.
Very few governments turn down the advances of the big guns unless another big gun already has there eye
Ok so roughly when did this corporate collusion begin? Just round it to the nearest 25 years of you can. Nearest 50 will be fine if not. Obviously nobody could know the precise date. .
Just for you, I would say roughly, June 1978!
Ok so what changed in the 70's / 80's to enable it to happen? "
Simple answer....Tony Blair happened! Totally sucking up to big business..... look how much he is now worth! Look at the fortunes companies made from PFI etc.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Most tech giants have 20 year long term strategies for the evolution and implementation of what there working on, they spend billions in this shit.. To imagine they do all this without having control of government policies which would make and break that investment is just plain crazy
They lobby. Sometimes lobbying works and sometimes it doesn't. Google have achieved fuck all from their lobbying in China, as have Facebook. BAE have achieved fuck all in america, except paying hundreds of millions in fines. RBS and Lloyds pulled off a masterpiece (at our expense) convincing idiot politicians to bail them out. I see no pattern of control though. .
Ahhh but thats where your wrong!.
Its not that the lobbying (bribes) didnt work, its that they were out bribed by the competition!.
Very few governments turn down the advances of the big guns unless another big gun already has there eye
Ok so roughly when did this corporate collusion begin? Just round it to the nearest 25 years of you can. Nearest 50 will be fine if not. Obviously nobody could know the precise date. .
Just for you, I would say roughly, June 1978!
Ok so what changed in the 70's / 80's to enable it to happen? "
.
Labour lost its bargaining position effectively leaving capital without opposition |
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"Most tech giants have 20 year long term strategies for the evolution and implementation of what there working on, they spend billions in this shit.. To imagine they do all this without having control of government policies which would make and break that investment is just plain crazy
They lobby. Sometimes lobbying works and sometimes it doesn't. Google have achieved fuck all from their lobbying in China, as have Facebook. BAE have achieved fuck all in america, except paying hundreds of millions in fines. RBS and Lloyds pulled off a masterpiece (at our expense) convincing idiot politicians to bail them out. I see no pattern of control though. .
Ahhh but thats where your wrong!.
Its not that the lobbying (bribes) didnt work, its that they were out bribed by the competition!.
Very few governments turn down the advances of the big guns unless another big gun already has there eye
Ok so roughly when did this corporate collusion begin? Just round it to the nearest 25 years of you can. Nearest 50 will be fine if not. Obviously nobody could know the precise date. .
Just for you, I would say roughly, June 1978!
Ok so what changed in the 70's / 80's to enable it to happen? .
Labour lost its bargaining position effectively leaving capital without opposition"
I could agree there was a shift of power around that time but not because of Tony Blair or the labour party. The great thing about capitalism is that if you are genuinely under paid by your employer then you can start a rival company and compete with them. I understand that some industries have huge barriers to entry and make this difficult (e.g. ship building). But since it's a rarity even in industries that don't have high barriers to entry (e.g. retail) then i think a lot more people like to moan about being oppressed than actually do something about it. |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"
Cameron kept his word, gave us a referendum and campaigned very strongly to keep us IN the EU."
Yeah - I should stay off the politics board. I meant to say his only soundbite were; 'this is an in/out referendum', 'you have a clear choice to vote in or out' (sorry about that).
Voter inclination are various but it remains that the effects of coming out were never fully explained yet they were simple. Look at Cornwall and Wales - massively subsidised by the EU, with Cornwall asking later for same level of funding. If it was explained disruption to funding, finance and legalities would be huge in coming out - as is the situation now, instead of succumbing to the project fear title, votes could easily have been swayed. The Cons have never been able to speak to a wider audience or give a true picture - I know what I mean. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Most tech giants have 20 year long term strategies for the evolution and implementation of what there working on, they spend billions in this shit.. To imagine they do all this without having control of government policies which would make and break that investment is just plain crazy
They lobby. Sometimes lobbying works and sometimes it doesn't. Google have achieved fuck all from their lobbying in China, as have Facebook. BAE have achieved fuck all in america, except paying hundreds of millions in fines. RBS and Lloyds pulled off a masterpiece (at our expense) convincing idiot politicians to bail them out. I see no pattern of control though. .
Ahhh but thats where your wrong!.
Its not that the lobbying (bribes) didnt work, its that they were out bribed by the competition!.
Very few governments turn down the advances of the big guns unless another big gun already has there eye
Ok so roughly when did this corporate collusion begin? Just round it to the nearest 25 years of you can. Nearest 50 will be fine if not. Obviously nobody could know the precise date. .
Just for you, I would say roughly, June 1978!
Ok so what changed in the 70's / 80's to enable it to happen? .
Labour lost its bargaining position effectively leaving capital without opposition
I could agree there was a shift of power around that time but not because of Tony Blair or the labour party. The great thing about capitalism is that if you are genuinely under paid by your employer then you can start a rival company and compete with them. I understand that some industries have huge barriers to entry and make this difficult (e.g. ship building). But since it's a rarity even in industries that don't have high barriers to entry (e.g. retail) then i think a lot more people like to moan about being oppressed than actually do something about it. "
.
Which is exactly why they have undue influence in politics. |
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"Most tech giants have 20 year long term strategies for the evolution and implementation of what there working on, they spend billions in this shit.. To imagine they do all this without having control of government policies which would make and break that investment is just plain crazy
They lobby. Sometimes lobbying works and sometimes it doesn't. Google have achieved fuck all from their lobbying in China, as have Facebook. BAE have achieved fuck all in america, except paying hundreds of millions in fines. RBS and Lloyds pulled off a masterpiece (at our expense) convincing idiot politicians to bail them out. I see no pattern of control though. .
Ahhh but thats where your wrong!.
Its not that the lobbying (bribes) didnt work, its that they were out bribed by the competition!.
Very few governments turn down the advances of the big guns unless another big gun already has there eye
Ok so roughly when did this corporate collusion begin? Just round it to the nearest 25 years of you can. Nearest 50 will be fine if not. Obviously nobody could know the precise date. .
Just for you, I would say roughly, June 1978!
Ok so what changed in the 70's / 80's to enable it to happen? .
Labour lost its bargaining position effectively leaving capital without opposition
I could agree there was a shift of power around that time but not because of Tony Blair or the labour party. The great thing about capitalism is that if you are genuinely under paid by your employer then you can start a rival company and compete with them. I understand that some industries have huge barriers to entry and make this difficult (e.g. ship building). But since it's a rarity even in industries that don't have high barriers to entry (e.g. retail) then i think a lot more people like to moan about being oppressed than actually do something about it. .
Which is exactly why they have undue influence in politics."
Firstly there are worlds apart from control which is what we are debating and undue influence. Secondly if influence is predicated on workers not being arsed to put their money where their mouth is then its not undue. |
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"Case and point.
For decades polls have shown that the majority of the united states favours harder gun control regulations.
However a small wealthier bunch favour selling lots more guns.
Which policy do they get?
Well that's a simple semantic trick right there. It's the same logical fallacy as saying "the majority of people favour a fairer tax system!"
My favourite:
"50 percent of people are stupider than average"
-Matt"
And another 2% who are less stupid than average just act like they're more stupid than average. That makes 52% and explains why we're in the mess we're in.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Most tech giants have 20 year long term strategies for the evolution and implementation of what there working on, they spend billions in this shit.. To imagine they do all this without having control of government policies which would make and break that investment is just plain crazy
They lobby. Sometimes lobbying works and sometimes it doesn't. Google have achieved fuck all from their lobbying in China, as have Facebook. BAE have achieved fuck all in america, except paying hundreds of millions in fines. RBS and Lloyds pulled off a masterpiece (at our expense) convincing idiot politicians to bail them out. I see no pattern of control though. .
Ahhh but thats where your wrong!.
Its not that the lobbying (bribes) didnt work, its that they were out bribed by the competition!.
Very few governments turn down the advances of the big guns unless another big gun already has there eye
Ok so roughly when did this corporate collusion begin? Just round it to the nearest 25 years of you can. Nearest 50 will be fine if not. Obviously nobody could know the precise date. .
Just for you, I would say roughly, June 1978!
Ok so what changed in the 70's / 80's to enable it to happen? .
Labour lost its bargaining position effectively leaving capital without opposition
I could agree there was a shift of power around that time but not because of Tony Blair or the labour party. The great thing about capitalism is that if you are genuinely under paid by your employer then you can start a rival company and compete with them. I understand that some industries have huge barriers to entry and make this difficult (e.g. ship building). But since it's a rarity even in industries that don't have high barriers to entry (e.g. retail) then i think a lot more people like to moan about being oppressed than actually do something about it. .
Which is exactly why they have undue influence in politics.
Firstly there are worlds apart from control which is what we are debating and undue influence. Secondly if influence is predicated on workers not being arsed to put their money where their mouth is then its not undue. "
.
But arsed but they make it difficult for you?.
The regulatory tied up in form filling is what the multinationals use in there favour.
They have the resources to do it the up and coming small rivals get crippled by it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The policies that people THINK are there for their benefit are always the best ones!.
Once you've convinced the sheeple that the regulation is there for them you'll never have opposition to it.
Its beautiful in its simplicity |
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"Most tech giants have 20 year long term strategies for the evolution and implementation of what there working on, they spend billions in this shit.. To imagine they do all this without having control of government policies which would make and break that investment is just plain crazy
They lobby. Sometimes lobbying works and sometimes it doesn't. Google have achieved fuck all from their lobbying in China, as have Facebook. BAE have achieved fuck all in america, except paying hundreds of millions in fines. RBS and Lloyds pulled off a masterpiece (at our expense) convincing idiot politicians to bail them out. I see no pattern of control though. .
Ahhh but thats where your wrong!.
Its not that the lobbying (bribes) didnt work, its that they were out bribed by the competition!.
Very few governments turn down the advances of the big guns unless another big gun already has there eye
Ok so roughly when did this corporate collusion begin? Just round it to the nearest 25 years of you can. Nearest 50 will be fine if not. Obviously nobody could know the precise date. .
Just for you, I would say roughly, June 1978!
Ok so what changed in the 70's / 80's to enable it to happen? .
Labour lost its bargaining position effectively leaving capital without opposition
I could agree there was a shift of power around that time but not because of Tony Blair or the labour party. The great thing about capitalism is that if you are genuinely under paid by your employer then you can start a rival company and compete with them. I understand that some industries have huge barriers to entry and make this difficult (e.g. ship building). But since it's a rarity even in industries that don't have high barriers to entry (e.g. retail) then i think a lot more people like to moan about being oppressed than actually do something about it. .
Which is exactly why they have undue influence in politics.
Firstly there are worlds apart from control which is what we are debating and undue influence. Secondly if influence is predicated on workers not being arsed to put their money where their mouth is then its not undue. .
But arsed but they make it difficult for you?.
The regulatory tied up in form filling is what the multinationals use in there favour.
They have the resources to do it the up and coming small rivals get crippled by it"
That's a poor arguement really. Yes i understand why people can't up the "the people's gas company" very easily but "indirect sports" to compete with sports direct would be pretty easy |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Most tech giants have 20 year long term strategies for the evolution and implementation of what there working on, they spend billions in this shit.. To imagine they do all this without having control of government policies which would make and break that investment is just plain crazy
They lobby. Sometimes lobbying works and sometimes it doesn't. Google have achieved fuck all from their lobbying in China, as have Facebook. BAE have achieved fuck all in america, except paying hundreds of millions in fines. RBS and Lloyds pulled off a masterpiece (at our expense) convincing idiot politicians to bail them out. I see no pattern of control though. .
Ahhh but thats where your wrong!.
Its not that the lobbying (bribes) didnt work, its that they were out bribed by the competition!.
Very few governments turn down the advances of the big guns unless another big gun already has there eye
Ok so roughly when did this corporate collusion begin? Just round it to the nearest 25 years of you can. Nearest 50 will be fine if not. Obviously nobody could know the precise date. .
Just for you, I would say roughly, June 1978!
Ok so what changed in the 70's / 80's to enable it to happen? .
Labour lost its bargaining position effectively leaving capital without opposition
I could agree there was a shift of power around that time but not because of Tony Blair or the labour party. The great thing about capitalism is that if you are genuinely under paid by your employer then you can start a rival company and compete with them. I understand that some industries have huge barriers to entry and make this difficult (e.g. ship building). But since it's a rarity even in industries that don't have high barriers to entry (e.g. retail) then i think a lot more people like to moan about being oppressed than actually do something about it. .
Which is exactly why they have undue influence in politics.
Firstly there are worlds apart from control which is what we are debating and undue influence. Secondly if influence is predicated on workers not being arsed to put their money where their mouth is then its not undue. .
But arsed but they make it difficult for you?.
The regulatory tied up in form filling is what the multinationals use in there favour.
They have the resources to do it the up and coming small rivals get crippled by it
That's a poor arguement really. Yes i understand why people can't up the "the people's gas company" very easily but "indirect sports" to compete with sports direct would be pretty easy "
.
Regulations are secretly loved by the multinationals, it gives them a competitive edge in the smaller companies.
Regulation that they dont like they just lobby to remove but they love to bits the burden of HR.. It hurts there rivals more than them.
The Chinese ban Google and Apple and Facebook because they know how it works |
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"Ask any one man band or small business, they spend more time doing paperwork than producing stuff!! Hows that work for efficiency?"
Im not talking about one man bands. Im talking about a cooperative model, why don't all the sports direct workers create a new company. They can hire people to take care of the paperwork of which there isn't much in retail. The oppression of workers can't be too bad if they won't fill out a few forms to escape it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ask any one man band or small business, they spend more time doing paperwork than producing stuff!! Hows that work for efficiency?
Im not talking about one man bands. Im talking about a cooperative model, why don't all the sports direct workers create a new company. They can hire people to take care of the paperwork of which there isn't much in retail. The oppression of workers can't be too bad if they won't fill out a few forms to escape it. "
.
So you want them to create the exact same model as sports direct but just pay themselves more?.
Mmmmmm I'm no expert but.. |
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"Ask any one man band or small business, they spend more time doing paperwork than producing stuff!! Hows that work for efficiency?
Im not talking about one man bands. Im talking about a cooperative model, why don't all the sports direct workers create a new company. They can hire people to take care of the paperwork of which there isn't much in retail. The oppression of workers can't be too bad if they won't fill out a few forms to escape it. .
So you want them to create the exact same model as sports direct but just pay themselves more?.
Mmmmmm I'm no expert but.."
If they think they could run the company better than the current overs (i.e. improve productivity) then they could pay themselves more and still make the same profit. If they couldn't do that then their current wages are fair and they should stop bitching about them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ask any one man band or small business, they spend more time doing paperwork than producing stuff!! Hows that work for efficiency?
Im not talking about one man bands. Im talking about a cooperative model, why don't all the sports direct workers create a new company. They can hire people to take care of the paperwork of which there isn't much in retail. The oppression of workers can't be too bad if they won't fill out a few forms to escape it. .
So you want them to create the exact same model as sports direct but just pay themselves more?.
Mmmmmm I'm no expert but..
If they think they could run the company better than the current overs (i.e. improve productivity) then they could pay themselves more and still make the same profit. If they couldn't do that then their current wages are fair and they should stop bitching about them. "
.
I think people would bitch anyhow, its what they do  |
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