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Corbyn has said
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So Corbyn has said that he would not walk away from the table in any negotiations with the EU.
Does this mean that if and when they say no the UK can't have something he is just going to accept it and bow down ?
He seems to want to unilaterally go ahead and guarantee things before even negotiating and give away any possible advantage does not sound like a good business plan to me 
May already tried to sort out the imagration issue up front and the EU flatly refused to even concider it!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It was my understanding that the EU wouldnt discuss it until they had received the article 50 letter to start negotiations!.
Now what does that say for your skills of negotiating if you dont understand how it starts? |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
Of all the mainstream Parties, Labour's stance on Brexit seems to be the most muddled.
It was actually Labour's Brexit Secretary Sir Kier Starmer that outlined Labour's Brexit policy this morning.
I've always found him to be an intelligent and articulate man, but even I was confused when he was interviewed on The Daily Politics programme today.
Yes, they have said " a bad deal is better than no deal" and I suppose that is very subjective. They have also said to unilaterally guarantee the rights of EU nationals here on the first day of a Labour Goverment.
I think that if they do have a message on Btexit, then it maybe needs reinforcing a bit. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It was my understanding that the EU wouldnt discuss it until they had received the article 50 letter to start negotiations!.
Now what does that say for your skills of negotiating if you dont understand how it starts?"
The letter has been sent and received and still they have not agreed that one point |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It was my understanding that the EU wouldnt discuss it until they had received the article 50 letter to start negotiations!.
Now what does that say for your skills of negotiating if you dont understand how it starts?
The letter has been sent and received and still they have not agreed that one point "
.
Have they actually had formal talks since the letter being delivered? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Of all the mainstream Parties, Labour's stance on Brexit seems to be the most muddled.
It was actually Labour's Brexit Secretary Sir Kier Starmer that outlined Labour's Brexit policy this morning.
I've always found him to be an intelligent and articulate man, but even I was confused when he was interviewed on The Daily Politics programme today.
Yes, they have said " a bad deal is better than no deal" and I suppose that is very subjective. They have also said to unilaterally guarantee the rights of EU nationals here on the first day of a Labour Goverment.
I think that if they do have a message on Btexit, then it maybe needs reinforcing a bit."
Agreed. 
Labour over the last 5 or so years has had a terrible record of communicating to people without the waffle.
I think that is one of their greatest minor problems. |
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"So Corbyn has said that he would not walk away from the table in any negotiations with the EU.
Does this mean that if and when they say no the UK can't have something he is just going to accept it and bow down ?
He seems to want to unilaterally go ahead and guarantee things before even negotiating and give away any possible advantage does not sound like a good business plan to me
May already tried to sort out the imagration issue up front and the EU flatly refused to even concider it!!"
It's a shit Brexit negotiating strategy by Labour, and would guarantee the EU play hardball and offer us the worst deal possible. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
They also said they will stay in the single market and have a fairer immigration system.
Just before the referendum, Corbyn was on the Mar show and said that you cannot stay in the single market and control immigration from the EU.
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"It is a typical Corbyn hidden agenda,to make sre we do not come out,he is a two faced lying bastard"
Since when has Corbyn been pro-EU?
The whole "problem" with labours approach to brexit was that they (like the tories) were split on it, and Corbyn seemed not to regard it as the huge issue it has now become. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm not sure if it will make any difference who wins tbh. They will try to treat us as an irrelevance no matter what. The bit at the end of Monty Python and the holy grail where we are shouted at from the castle ramparts probably just about sums up how the negotiations will go LOL. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
I used to really respect Kier Starmer, but I was very disappointed with what he said today in relation to free movement rules. It wasn't even the content of what he said, but he basically said that he would scrap a system that doesn't exist, and instead replace it with the current system. It's bullshit like that that got us into this mess in the first place. Politicians lying about the EU. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"It is a typical Corbyn hidden agenda,to make sre we do not come out,he is a two faced lying bastard
Since when has Corbyn been pro-EU?
The whole "problem" with labours approach to brexit was that they (like the tories) were split on it, and Corbyn seemed not to regard it as the huge issue it has now become. "
Corbyn doesn't seem to take anything seriously, therefore I don't take him seriously. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"It is a typical Corbyn hidden agenda,to make sre we do not come out,he is a two faced lying bastard
Since when has Corbyn been pro-EU?
The whole "problem" with labours approach to brexit was that they (like the tories) were split on it, and Corbyn seemed not to regard it as the huge issue it has now become.
Corbyn doesn't seem to take anything seriously, therefore I don't take him seriously."
It's absolutley no surpise to me that you really aren't paying attention.
I also didn't really think the EU (membership therof) was a left wing issue. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So Corbyn has said that he would not walk away from the table in any negotiations with the EU.
Does this mean that if and when they say no the UK can't have something he is just going to accept it and bow down ?
He seems to want to unilaterally go ahead and guarantee things before even negotiating and give away any possible advantage does not sound like a good business plan to me
May already tried to sort out the imagration issue up front and the EU flatly refused to even concider it!!
It's a shit Brexit negotiating strategy by Labour, and would guarantee the EU play hardball and offer us the worst deal possible. "
its only you who can't already see that they will offer us the worst deal no matter what ...you Brexiters say the eu is undemocratic and very protectionist..but still expecting a fair deal ...? It an organisation is protectionist ..then they protect there own ..so why would they favour and outside party? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"It is a typical Corbyn hidden agenda,to make sre we do not come out,he is a two faced lying bastard
Since when has Corbyn been pro-EU?
The whole "problem" with labours approach to brexit was that they (like the tories) were split on it, and Corbyn seemed not to regard it as the huge issue it has now become.
Corbyn doesn't seem to take anything seriously, therefore I don't take him seriously.
It's absolutley no surpise to me that you really aren't paying attention.
I also didn't really think the EU (membership therof) was a left wing issue. "
I pay plenty of attention. He doesn't take PMQs seriously, be gets members of the public to write the questions, he doesn't hold the government to account. He doesn't understand the impact of his actions or the actions or his team. Allowing his shadow chancellor to pull out Mao's little read book, refusing to sing the national anthem, not wanting a "shoot to kill" policy in the case of an active shooter etc etc.
You don't think EU membership was a left wing matter even with all the workers rights provisions?  Instead we are just going to trust the Tories with workers rights? |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"It is a typical Corbyn hidden agenda,to make sre we do not come out,he is a two faced lying bastard
Since when has Corbyn been pro-EU?
The whole "problem" with labours approach to brexit was that they (like the tories) were split on it, and Corbyn seemed not to regard it as the huge issue it has now become.
Corbyn doesn't seem to take anything seriously, therefore I don't take him seriously.
It's absolutley no surpise to me that you really aren't paying attention.
I also didn't really think the EU (membership therof) was a left wing issue.
I pay plenty of attention. He doesn't take PMQs seriously, be gets members of the public to write the questions, he doesn't hold the government to account. He doesn't understand the impact of his actions or the actions or his team. Allowing his shadow chancellor to pull out Mao's little read book, refusing to sing the national anthem, not wanting a "shoot to kill" policy in the case of an active shooter etc etc.
You don't think EU membership was a left wing matter even with all the workers rights provisions? Instead we are just going to trust the Tories with workers rights?"
We've clearly been watching a different PMQs.
I don't think European Federalism Vs one-stste capitalism is a left wing issue, no.
Whilst I agree that the somewhat piecemeal EU workers regs are the lesser of two evils, ideologically I'm with Tony Benn on the EU. It is only the terrifying prospect of unfettered Tory grip on the UK that caused me to vote remain.
In hindsight, I'd probably vote leave. |
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"It is a typical Corbyn hidden agenda,to make sre we do not come out,he is a two faced lying bastard
Since when has Corbyn been pro-EU?
The whole "problem" with labours approach to brexit was that they (like the tories) were split on it, and Corbyn seemed not to regard it as the huge issue it has now become.
Corbyn doesn't seem to take anything seriously, therefore I don't take him seriously.
It's absolutley no surpise to me that you really aren't paying attention.
I also didn't really think the EU (membership therof) was a left wing issue.
I pay plenty of attention. He doesn't take PMQs seriously, be gets members of the public to write the questions, he doesn't hold the government to account. He doesn't understand the impact of his actions or the actions or his team. Allowing his shadow chancellor to pull out Mao's little read book, refusing to sing the national anthem, not wanting a "shoot to kill" policy in the case of an active shooter etc etc.
You don't think EU membership was a left wing matter even with all the workers rights provisions? Instead we are just going to trust the Tories with workers rights?"
Many on the hard left are just as anti EU as many on the hard right. Look at the hard left candidate in the first round of the french elections Melenchon, he came from virtually no where to take 4th place on 19% of the vote, almost level with Fillon who came 3rd by a small fraction. Melenchon campaigned on a hard left anti EU ticket. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"It is a typical Corbyn hidden agenda,to make sre we do not come out,he is a two faced lying bastard
Since when has Corbyn been pro-EU?
The whole "problem" with labours approach to brexit was that they (like the tories) were split on it, and Corbyn seemed not to regard it as the huge issue it has now become.
Corbyn doesn't seem to take anything seriously, therefore I don't take him seriously.
It's absolutley no surpise to me that you really aren't paying attention.
I also didn't really think the EU (membership therof) was a left wing issue.
I pay plenty of attention. He doesn't take PMQs seriously, be gets members of the public to write the questions, he doesn't hold the government to account. He doesn't understand the impact of his actions or the actions or his team. Allowing his shadow chancellor to pull out Mao's little read book, refusing to sing the national anthem, not wanting a "shoot to kill" policy in the case of an active shooter etc etc.
You don't think EU membership was a left wing matter even with all the workers rights provisions? Instead we are just going to trust the Tories with workers rights?
Many on the hard left are just as anti EU as many on the hard right. Look at the hard left candidate in the first round of the french elections Melenchon, he came from virtually no where to take 4th place on 19% of the vote, almost level with Fillon who came 3rd by a small fraction. Melenchon campaigned on a hard left anti EU ticket. "
Who'd have thought it?
The left doesn't like unelected conglomerates representing the interests of capital passing legislation..... |
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"It is a typical Corbyn hidden agenda,to make sre we do not come out,he is a two faced lying bastard
Since when has Corbyn been pro-EU?
The whole "problem" with labours approach to brexit was that they (like the tories) were split on it, and Corbyn seemed not to regard it as the huge issue it has now become.
Corbyn doesn't seem to take anything seriously, therefore I don't take him seriously.
It's absolutley no surpise to me that you really aren't paying attention.
I also didn't really think the EU (membership therof) was a left wing issue.
I pay plenty of attention. He doesn't take PMQs seriously, be gets members of the public to write the questions, he doesn't hold the government to account. He doesn't understand the impact of his actions or the actions or his team. Allowing his shadow chancellor to pull out Mao's little read book, refusing to sing the national anthem, not wanting a "shoot to kill" policy in the case of an active shooter etc etc.
You don't think EU membership was a left wing matter even with all the workers rights provisions? Instead we are just going to trust the Tories with workers rights?
Many on the hard left are just as anti EU as many on the hard right. Look at the hard left candidate in the first round of the french elections Melenchon, he came from virtually no where to take 4th place on 19% of the vote, almost level with Fillon who came 3rd by a small fraction. Melenchon campaigned on a hard left anti EU ticket.
Who'd have thought it?
The left doesn't like unelected conglomerates representing the interests of capital passing legislation....."
Which is why i don't think the bulk of that 19% who voted for Melenchon in the first round will back the Pro EU Macron in the final round. Some of them may back Marine Le Pen because she is anti Euro and anti EU, many others will abstain and not bother to vote in the final round. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"It is a typical Corbyn hidden agenda,to make sre we do not come out,he is a two faced lying bastard
Since when has Corbyn been pro-EU?
The whole "problem" with labours approach to brexit was that they (like the tories) were split on it, and Corbyn seemed not to regard it as the huge issue it has now become.
Corbyn doesn't seem to take anything seriously, therefore I don't take him seriously.
It's absolutley no surpise to me that you really aren't paying attention.
I also didn't really think the EU (membership therof) was a left wing issue.
I pay plenty of attention. He doesn't take PMQs seriously, be gets members of the public to write the questions, he doesn't hold the government to account. He doesn't understand the impact of his actions or the actions or his team. Allowing his shadow chancellor to pull out Mao's little read book, refusing to sing the national anthem, not wanting a "shoot to kill" policy in the case of an active shooter etc etc.
You don't think EU membership was a left wing matter even with all the workers rights provisions? Instead we are just going to trust the Tories with workers rights?
Many on the hard left are just as anti EU as many on the hard right. Look at the hard left candidate in the first round of the french elections Melenchon, he came from virtually no where to take 4th place on 19% of the vote, almost level with Fillon who came 3rd by a small fraction. Melenchon campaigned on a hard left anti EU ticket.
Who'd have thought it?
The left doesn't like unelected conglomerates representing the interests of capital passing legislation.....
Which is why i don't think the bulk of that 19% who voted for Melenchon in the first round will back the Pro EU Macron in the final round. Some of them may back Marine Le Pen because she is anti Euro and anti EU, many others will abstain and not bother to vote in the final round. "
I disagree, I don't think she's going to shale off the National Front label - and again, its the lesser of two evils, most on the Social Democrat (and further) left would rather poke their eyes out with knitting needles than vote for the blackshirts. |
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It came as a surprise to me recently to learn that a lot of independent political correspondents think Corbyn generally gets the better of May at pmq's. That's not how the msm present it. That might be bias, we know kuenssberg, Robinson and Neil don't like him, but it seems more likely that May makes sure she has the prepared joke or soundbite because she is more savvy about how the media works and what will be shown.
In terms of Corbyn saying he wouldn't walk away, I read that as someone who was prepared to sit down even with the Ira and talk and talk until a deal was done that both sides could accept. That is the secret to business deals. If you have to have a future relationship, as we do, then there has to be a deal that is not resented. The EU have the upper hand though and therefore there are some things that will be red lines. For us, no deal is the worst possible deal. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"It came as a surprise to me recently to learn that a lot of independent political correspondents think Corbyn generally gets the better of May at pmq's. That's not how the msm present it. That might be bias, we know kuenssberg, Robinson and Neil don't like him, but it seems more likely that May makes sure she has the prepared joke or soundbite because she is more savvy about how the media works and what will be shown.
In terms of Corbyn saying he wouldn't walk away, I read that as someone who was prepared to sit down even with the Ira and talk and talk until a deal was done that both sides could accept. That is the secret to business deals. If you have to have a future relationship, as we do, then there has to be a deal that is not resented. The EU have the upper hand though and therefore there are some things that will be red lines. For us, no deal is the worst possible deal. "
Its not that much of a surprise when you consider that he has been involved in politics for the geater part of his life and he's approching retirement age. |
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I mean it is a surprise because it isn't what the msm would have you think.
Then again that shouldn't be a surprise, just look at how the miners strike was misreported by the BBC at the time. Not much has changed. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"I mean it is a surprise because it isn't what the msm would have you think.
Then again that shouldn't be a surprise, just look at how the miners strike was misreported by the BBC at the time. Not much has changed. "
Of course it isn't - the thing that amusesme is that they can't decidde how to smear him from one opinion piece to the next. One minutre he's a dangerous, well organised Trotskyite who threatens the very foundations of our democracy, such is his cunning, the next he's a wishy-washy bearded hippy with no clue about anything and no plans for the future.
Thy should at least pick one, if they want any credibility. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
As far as I am aware the PM and her team have delivered themselves into the worst possible negotiating position because they have as good as pre-stated their position.
It tends to work best in negotiations if your opponent doesn't know your start point and your red lines. May and her team would have been better to state that we had been an advisory referendum and the Govt was committed to negotiate all options with the EU ruling nothing in and ruling nothing out and reserving the right to stay in the EU or walk away. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Corbyn is the reason Labour won't ever get in, he has no ideas of his own, seems who ever is in the public eye at the time gets his support, he jumps from 1 cause to the next, whoever he thinks will get him the most support, as with all politicians expect nothing, but even less from him |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As far as I am aware the PM and her team have delivered themselves into the worst possible negotiating position because they have as good as pre-stated their position.
It tends to work best in negotiations if your opponent doesn't know your start point and your red lines. May and her team would have been better to state that we had been an advisory referendum and the Govt was committed to negotiate all options with the EU ruling nothing in and ruling nothing out and reserving the right to stay in the EU or walk away. "
I agree with you here. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Instead Corbyn said he would not be prepared to walk away from the table! If they know you are not prepared to walk away they would keep going until the UK takes what is offered in desperation |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"It came as a surprise to me recently to learn that a lot of independent political correspondents think Corbyn generally gets the better of May at pmq's. That's not how the msm present it. That might be bias, we know kuenssberg, Robinson and Neil don't like him, but it seems more likely that May makes sure she has the prepared joke or soundbite because she is more savvy about how the media works and what will be shown.
In terms of Corbyn saying he wouldn't walk away, I read that as someone who was prepared to sit down even with the Ira and talk and talk until a deal was done that both sides could accept. That is the secret to business deals. If you have to have a future relationship, as we do, then there has to be a deal that is not resented. The EU have the upper hand though and therefore there are some things that will be red lines. For us, no deal is the worst possible deal. "
I watch PMQs every week. He really doesn't get the better of May, and neither did he of Cameron. Maybe twice in the whole time.
His 'Wendy from Wolverhampton asks' questions really are wearing a bit thin, and makes it feel like he hasn't got a mind of his own..... Especially when he very rarely follows up on them.
The number of times you see his own MPs around him practically putting their heads in their hands and see the expressions on their faces says it all really. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"As far as I am aware the PM and her team have delivered themselves into the worst possible negotiating position because they have as good as pre-stated their position.
It tends to work best in negotiations if your opponent doesn't know your start point and your red lines. May and her team would have been better to state that we had been an advisory referendum and the Govt was committed to negotiate all options with the EU ruling nothing in and ruling nothing out and reserving the right to stay in the EU or walk away. "
All the remainers wanted her to state fully the government's plan and strategy.
She was originally saying words to the effect of not ruling anything in or out and showing her hand. Remember "Brexit means Brexit"?
But this wasn't good enough .... People were then saying she hadn't a clue what direction she wanted, what she wanted, etc. And that parliament should be able to debate the plan fully before article 50 was invoked.
Completely the wrong move, completely pandering to remainers. |
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"Corbyn is the reason Labour won't ever get in, he has no ideas of his own, seems who ever is in the public eye at the time gets his support, he jumps from 1 cause to the next, whoever he thinks will get him the most support, as with all politicians expect nothing, but even less from him"
Talking of people with no ideas have you looked at yourself in the mirror. You obviously know so little about Corbyn.
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"As far as I am aware the PM and her team have delivered themselves into the worst possible negotiating position because they have as good as pre-stated their position.
It tends to work best in negotiations if your opponent doesn't know your start point and your red lines. May and her team would have been better to state that we had been an advisory referendum and the Govt was committed to negotiate all options with the EU ruling nothing in and ruling nothing out and reserving the right to stay in the EU or walk away.
All the remainers wanted her to state fully the government's plan and strategy.
She was originally saying words to the effect of not ruling anything in or out and showing her hand. Remember "Brexit means Brexit"?
But this wasn't good enough .... People were then saying she hadn't a clue what direction she wanted, what she wanted, etc. And that parliament should be able to debate the plan fully before article 50 was invoked.
Completely the wrong move, completely pandering to remainers."
Agree, it was Theresa May and the tories backed by the Leave voters who originally said we should not be showing our hand in any negotiations or our negotiating strategy prior to negotiations. It was the Remainers who were screaming (many on here) for a plan and a negotiating strategy to be laid out for everyone to see before article 50 was triggered. |
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"Corbyn is the reason Labour won't ever get in, he has no ideas of his own, seems who ever is in the public eye at the time gets his support, he jumps from 1 cause to the next, whoever he thinks will get him the most support, as with all politicians expect nothing, but even less from him"
Corbyn has asked the public for election ideas he can put in the Labour manifesto. He has given people until May 2nd to put their ideas in. Seems he has no ideas of his own, just like PMQ's each week when he can't think of his own questions and asks questions sent in by the public. |
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"It came as a surprise to me recently to learn that a lot of independent political correspondents think Corbyn generally gets the better of May at pmq's. That's not how the msm present it. That might be bias, we know kuenssberg, Robinson and Neil don't like him, but it seems more likely that May makes sure she has the prepared joke or soundbite because she is more savvy about how the media works and what will be shown.
In terms of Corbyn saying he wouldn't walk away, I read that as someone who was prepared to sit down even with the Ira and talk and talk until a deal was done that both sides could accept. That is the secret to business deals. If you have to have a future relationship, as we do, then there has to be a deal that is not resented. The EU have the upper hand though and therefore there are some things that will be red lines. For us, no deal is the worst possible deal. "
That is your opinion, as you were saying on the Nick Robinson thread his tweet is his opinion not fact, what you just said is not fact it is your opinion. My opinion is no deal is better than a bad deal and we should be prepared to walk away from the negotiating table with the EU if necessary. It was reported on the news yesterday that it has been leaked a number of figures in the EU are extremely worried about the prospect of no deal with the UK and the devastating effect it would have on EU trade. The UK has a very strong hand in these negotiations if the EU believes we are prepared to walk away from the table. No Deal is better than a bad deal for us. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"As far as I am aware the PM and her team have delivered themselves into the worst possible negotiating position because they have as good as pre-stated their position.
It tends to work best in negotiations if your opponent doesn't know your start point and your red lines. May and her team would have been better to state that we had been an advisory referendum and the Govt was committed to negotiate all options with the EU ruling nothing in and ruling nothing out and reserving the right to stay in the EU or walk away.
All the remainers wanted her to state fully the government's plan and strategy.
She was originally saying words to the effect of not ruling anything in or out and showing her hand. Remember "Brexit means Brexit"?
But this wasn't good enough .... People were then saying she hadn't a clue what direction she wanted, what she wanted, etc. And that parliament should be able to debate the plan fully before article 50 was invoked.
Completely the wrong move, completely pandering to remainers."
Wow. Cognitive dissonance in effect.
If she was pandering to remainders how are we in a position that Brexit means out of the single market and out of the customs union and everyone knows it?
If she truly was pandering to the Remainers the EU would currently be worried about whether the UK might stay, or go and under what terms in either instance.
In fact she has pandered to rabid right wingers who have forced her into a poor negotiating position by "holding her feet to the fire." |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Corbyn is the reason Labour won't ever get in, he has no ideas of his own, seems who ever is in the public eye at the time gets his support, he jumps from 1 cause to the next, whoever he thinks will get him the most support, as with all politicians expect nothing, but even less from him
Corbyn has asked the public for election ideas he can put in the Labour manifesto. He has given people until May 2nd to put their ideas in. Seems he has no ideas of his own, just like PMQ's each week when he can't think of his own questions and asks questions sent in by the public. "
.
Of the people by the people for the people?.
When did we stop holding this ideal as good |
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"As far as I am aware the PM and her team have delivered themselves into the worst possible negotiating position because they have as good as pre-stated their position.
It tends to work best in negotiations if your opponent doesn't know your start point and your red lines. May and her team would have been better to state that we had been an advisory referendum and the Govt was committed to negotiate all options with the EU ruling nothing in and ruling nothing out and reserving the right to stay in the EU or walk away.
All the remainers wanted her to state fully the government's plan and strategy.
She was originally saying words to the effect of not ruling anything in or out and showing her hand. Remember "Brexit means Brexit"?
But this wasn't good enough .... People were then saying she hadn't a clue what direction she wanted, what she wanted, etc. And that parliament should be able to debate the plan fully before article 50 was invoked.
Completely the wrong move, completely pandering to remainers.
Wow. Cognitive dissonance in effect.
If she was pandering to remainders how are we in a position that Brexit means out of the single market and out of the customs union and everyone knows it?
If she truly was pandering to the Remainers the EU would currently be worried about whether the UK might stay, or go and under what terms in either instance.
In fact she has pandered to rabid right wingers who have forced her into a poor negotiating position by "holding her feet to the fire.""
The single market issue was laid out during the EU referendum campaign last year. All the main leaders on both sides of the campaign made it very clear a vote to leave meant leaving the single market. David Cameron and George Osborne both said it, now Theresa May is doing what they all said would happen. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"As far as I am aware the PM and her team have delivered themselves into the worst possible negotiating position because they have as good as pre-stated their position.
It tends to work best in negotiations if your opponent doesn't know your start point and your red lines. May and her team would have been better to state that we had been an advisory referendum and the Govt was committed to negotiate all options with the EU ruling nothing in and ruling nothing out and reserving the right to stay in the EU or walk away.
All the remainers wanted her to state fully the government's plan and strategy.
She was originally saying words to the effect of not ruling anything in or out and showing her hand. Remember "Brexit means Brexit"?
But this wasn't good enough .... People were then saying she hadn't a clue what direction she wanted, what she wanted, etc. And that parliament should be able to debate the plan fully before article 50 was invoked.
Completely the wrong move, completely pandering to remainers.
Wow. Cognitive dissonance in effect.
If she was pandering to remainders how are we in a position that Brexit means out of the single market and out of the customs union and everyone knows it?
If she truly was pandering to the Remainers the EU would currently be worried about whether the UK might stay, or go and under what terms in either instance.
In fact she has pandered to rabid right wingers who have forced her into a poor negotiating position by "holding her feet to the fire.""
And which part of the phrase "a vote to leave is a vote to leave the single market" do you have difficulty in understanding?
As said by ALL the main players from both sides of the referendum campaign.
And what part of "access to the single market" and "membership if the single market" do have trouble understanding. As said by all of the main players in the leave campaign. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"As far as I am aware the PM and her team have delivered themselves into the worst possible negotiating position because they have as good as pre-stated their position.
It tends to work best in negotiations if your opponent doesn't know your start point and your red lines. May and her team would have been better to state that we had been an advisory referendum and the Govt was committed to negotiate all options with the EU ruling nothing in and ruling nothing out and reserving the right to stay in the EU or walk away.
All the remainers wanted her to state fully the government's plan and strategy.
She was originally saying words to the effect of not ruling anything in or out and showing her hand. Remember "Brexit means Brexit"?
But this wasn't good enough .... People were then saying she hadn't a clue what direction she wanted, what she wanted, etc. And that parliament should be able to debate the plan fully before article 50 was invoked.
Completely the wrong move, completely pandering to remainers.
Wow. Cognitive dissonance in effect.
If she was pandering to remainders how are we in a position that Brexit means out of the single market and out of the customs union and everyone knows it?
If she truly was pandering to the Remainers the EU would currently be worried about whether the UK might stay, or go and under what terms in either instance.
In fact she has pandered to rabid right wingers who have forced her into a poor negotiating position by "holding her feet to the fire."
And which part of the phrase "a vote to leave is a vote to leave the single market" do you have difficulty in understanding?
As said by ALL the main players from both sides of the referendum campaign.
And what part of "access to the single market" and "membership if the single market" do have trouble understanding. As said by all of the main players in the leave campaign. "
If you would care to read the thread it is about how Theresa May has lost her negotiating position by laying out her position. A more astute negotiator would not have bowed to the pressures of the extreme right, Farage and others and simply told the EU that there had been an advisory referendum whereby a small majority had voted to Leave but the Govt is compelled to get the best possible outcome for the nation and so would rule nothing in and nothing out including a full reversal (ie to Remain) to an extreme leave position.
Extreme Leavers were simply unable to comprehend any sophistication in the negotiation and held May's feet to the fire demanding that Leave means Leave and everyone to know it. The KLeavers are wholly responsible for the piss poor negotiating position that we are in because of their adamant assertions about what Brexit had to mean and making sure the Govt knew it.
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"As far as I am aware the PM and her team have delivered themselves into the worst possible negotiating position because they have as good as pre-stated their position.
It tends to work best in negotiations if your opponent doesn't know your start point and your red lines. May and her team would have been better to state that we had been an advisory referendum and the Govt was committed to negotiate all options with the EU ruling nothing in and ruling nothing out and reserving the right to stay in the EU or walk away.
All the remainers wanted her to state fully the government's plan and strategy.
She was originally saying words to the effect of not ruling anything in or out and showing her hand. Remember "Brexit means Brexit"?
But this wasn't good enough .... People were then saying she hadn't a clue what direction she wanted, what she wanted, etc. And that parliament should be able to debate the plan fully before article 50 was invoked.
Completely the wrong move, completely pandering to remainers.
Wow. Cognitive dissonance in effect.
If she was pandering to remainders how are we in a position that Brexit means out of the single market and out of the customs union and everyone knows it?
If she truly was pandering to the Remainers the EU would currently be worried about whether the UK might stay, or go and under what terms in either instance.
In fact she has pandered to rabid right wingers who have forced her into a poor negotiating position by "holding her feet to the fire."
And which part of the phrase "a vote to leave is a vote to leave the single market" do you have difficulty in understanding?
As said by ALL the main players from both sides of the referendum campaign.
And what part of "access to the single market" and "membership if the single market" do have trouble understanding. As said by all of the main players in the leave campaign.
If you would care to read the thread it is about how Theresa May has lost her negotiating position by laying out her position. A more astute negotiator would not have bowed to the pressures of the extreme right, Farage and others and simply told the EU that there had been an advisory referendum whereby a small majority had voted to Leave but the Govt is compelled to get the best possible outcome for the nation and so would rule nothing in and nothing out including a full reversal (ie to Remain) to an extreme leave position.
Extreme Leavers were simply unable to comprehend any sophistication in the negotiation and held May's feet to the fire demanding that Leave means Leave and everyone to know it. The KLeavers are wholly responsible for the piss poor negotiating position that we are in because of their adamant assertions about what Brexit had to mean and making sure the Govt knew it.
"
farage actually said we should not show our hand, as dud all of the other leavers. It was remainers that wanted the terms, detail and negotiating strategy fully laid out beforehand. Namely Arron, Sturgeon, Labour and the bulk of the House of Lords.
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"As far as I am aware the PM and her team have delivered themselves into the worst possible negotiating position because they have as good as pre-stated their position.
It tends to work best in negotiations if your opponent doesn't know your start point and your red lines. May and her team would have been better to state that we had been an advisory referendum and the Govt was committed to negotiate all options with the EU ruling nothing in and ruling nothing out and reserving the right to stay in the EU or walk away.
All the remainers wanted her to state fully the government's plan and strategy.
She was originally saying words to the effect of not ruling anything in or out and showing her hand. Remember "Brexit means Brexit"?
But this wasn't good enough .... People were then saying she hadn't a clue what direction she wanted, what she wanted, etc. And that parliament should be able to debate the plan fully before article 50 was invoked.
Completely the wrong move, completely pandering to remainers.
Wow. Cognitive dissonance in effect.
If she was pandering to remainders how are we in a position that Brexit means out of the single market and out of the customs union and everyone knows it?
If she truly was pandering to the Remainers the EU would currently be worried about whether the UK might stay, or go and under what terms in either instance.
In fact she has pandered to rabid right wingers who have forced her into a poor negotiating position by "holding her feet to the fire."
And which part of the phrase "a vote to leave is a vote to leave the single market" do you have difficulty in understanding?
As said by ALL the main players from both sides of the referendum campaign.
And what part of "access to the single market" and "membership if the single market" do have trouble understanding. As said by all of the main players in the leave campaign.
If you would care to read the thread it is about how Theresa May has lost her negotiating position by laying out her position. A more astute negotiator would not have bowed to the pressures of the extreme right, Farage and others and simply told the EU that there had been an advisory referendum whereby a small majority had voted to Leave but the Govt is compelled to get the best possible outcome for the nation and so would rule nothing in and nothing out including a full reversal (ie to Remain) to an extreme leave position.
Extreme Leavers were simply unable to comprehend any sophistication in the negotiation and held May's feet to the fire demanding that Leave means Leave and everyone to know it. The KLeavers are wholly responsible for the piss poor negotiating position that we are in because of their adamant assertions about what Brexit had to mean and making sure the Govt knew it.
"
No, leaving the single market was understood by everyone who voted Leave, as it has already been pointed out all the main figures on both sides of the EU referendum campaign said a vote to leave means leaving the single market. Theresa May's Brexit plan and negotiating strategy has been laid out in advance of negotiations because all the Remainers were screaming for it before article 50 was triggered. |
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"As far as I am aware the PM and her team have delivered themselves into the worst possible negotiating position because they have as good as pre-stated their position.
It tends to work best in negotiations if your opponent doesn't know your start point and your red lines. May and her team would have been better to state that we had been an advisory referendum and the Govt was committed to negotiate all options with the EU ruling nothing in and ruling nothing out and reserving the right to stay in the EU or walk away.
All the remainers wanted her to state fully the government's plan and strategy.
She was originally saying words to the effect of not ruling anything in or out and showing her hand. Remember "Brexit means Brexit"?
But this wasn't good enough .... People were then saying she hadn't a clue what direction she wanted, what she wanted, etc. And that parliament should be able to debate the plan fully before article 50 was invoked.
Completely the wrong move, completely pandering to remainers.
Wow. Cognitive dissonance in effect.
If she was pandering to remainders how are we in a position that Brexit means out of the single market and out of the customs union and everyone knows it?
If she truly was pandering to the Remainers the EU would currently be worried about whether the UK might stay, or go and under what terms in either instance.
In fact she has pandered to rabid right wingers who have forced her into a poor negotiating position by "holding her feet to the fire."
And which part of the phrase "a vote to leave is a vote to leave the single market" do you have difficulty in understanding?
As said by ALL the main players from both sides of the referendum campaign.
And what part of "access to the single market" and "membership if the single market" do have trouble understanding. As said by all of the main players in the leave campaign.
If you would care to read the thread it is about how Theresa May has lost her negotiating position by laying out her position. A more astute negotiator would not have bowed to the pressures of the extreme right, Farage and others and simply told the EU that there had been an advisory referendum whereby a small majority had voted to Leave but the Govt is compelled to get the best possible outcome for the nation and so would rule nothing in and nothing out including a full reversal (ie to Remain) to an extreme leave position.
Extreme Leavers were simply unable to comprehend any sophistication in the negotiation and held May's feet to the fire demanding that Leave means Leave and everyone to know it. The KLeavers are wholly responsible for the piss poor negotiating position that we are in because of their adamant assertions about what Brexit had to mean and making sure the Govt knew it.
farage actually said we should not show our hand, as dud all of the other leavers. It was remainers that wanted the terms, detail and negotiating strategy fully laid out beforehand. Namely Arron, Sturgeon, Labour and the bulk of the House of Lords.
"
Presume you meant Farron there, along with Clegg and all the other Lib dem whingers. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"As far as I am aware the PM and her team have delivered themselves into the worst possible negotiating position because they have as good as pre-stated their position.
It tends to work best in negotiations if your opponent doesn't know your start point and your red lines. May and her team would have been better to state that we had been an advisory referendum and the Govt was committed to negotiate all options with the EU ruling nothing in and ruling nothing out and reserving the right to stay in the EU or walk away.
All the remainers wanted her to state fully the government's plan and strategy.
She was originally saying words to the effect of not ruling anything in or out and showing her hand. Remember "Brexit means Brexit"?
But this wasn't good enough .... People were then saying she hadn't a clue what direction she wanted, what she wanted, etc. And that parliament should be able to debate the plan fully before article 50 was invoked.
Completely the wrong move, completely pandering to remainers.
Wow. Cognitive dissonance in effect.
If she was pandering to remainders how are we in a position that Brexit means out of the single market and out of the customs union and everyone knows it?
If she truly was pandering to the Remainers the EU would currently be worried about whether the UK might stay, or go and under what terms in either instance.
In fact she has pandered to rabid right wingers who have forced her into a poor negotiating position by "holding her feet to the fire."
And which part of the phrase "a vote to leave is a vote to leave the single market" do you have difficulty in understanding?
As said by ALL the main players from both sides of the referendum campaign.
And what part of "access to the single market" and "membership if the single market" do have trouble understanding. As said by all of the main players in the leave campaign.
If you would care to read the thread it is about how Theresa May has lost her negotiating position by laying out her position. A more astute negotiator would not have bowed to the pressures of the extreme right, Farage and others and simply told the EU that there had been an advisory referendum whereby a small majority had voted to Leave but the Govt is compelled to get the best possible outcome for the nation and so would rule nothing in and nothing out including a full reversal (ie to Remain) to an extreme leave position.
Extreme Leavers were simply unable to comprehend any sophistication in the negotiation and held May's feet to the fire demanding that Leave means Leave and everyone to know it. The KLeavers are wholly responsible for the piss poor negotiating position that we are in because of their adamant assertions about what Brexit had to mean and making sure the Govt knew it.
farage actually said we should not show our hand, as dud all of the other leavers. It was remainers that wanted the terms, detail and negotiating strategy fully laid out beforehand. Namely Arron, Sturgeon, Labour and the bulk of the House of Lords.
Presume you meant Farron there, along with Clegg and all the other Lib dem whingers. "
I did,damn fat thumbs, little phone and predictive spelling! |
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By *VBethTV/TS
over a year ago
Chester |
It's been another example of lose/lose. Time and again we saw people screeching that there was no plan, no idea, no clue what we were doing with regards to our negotiations. JC and his idiot shadow chancellor yelled it across the house on many occasions.
Ok, let's tell them the plan..... Then the same people yell that we've shown our hand too early.
Essentially, politics is always the same. You try and make the other side look bad. No matter if that's by lying, altering facts, "fake news", it doesn't matter. You just have to make the other side look bad.
And people fall for it. Anyone know how this could have been won without rabid ranting from people?
No, me neither. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"It's been another example of lose/lose. Time and again we saw people screeching that there was no plan, no idea, no clue what we were doing with regards to our negotiations. JC and his idiot shadow chancellor yelled it across the house on many occasions.
Ok, let's tell them the plan..... Then the same people yell that we've shown our hand too early.
Essentially, politics is always the same. You try and make the other side look bad. No matter if that's by lying, altering facts, "fake news", it doesn't matter. You just have to make the other side look bad.
And people fall for it. Anyone know how this could have been won without rabid ranting from people?
No, me neither. "
I just can't believe that someone is saying it was all the leavers insisting on making a plan and strategy public.
The ink hasn't even dried yet! |
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so what tory policies am I supposedly in favour of? 