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Labour on 9th June
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
If Labour gets decimated at the GE, what will be its future? Will it return to the political success of New Labour, or will it decide that the reason it lost was because it wasn’t far enough to the left and go even further away from the centre ground? |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"As much as I dislike the left, New Labour was a disaster so nobody will want to return to that. It is time to form a new party"
 You know they won 3 back to back election right? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As much as I dislike the left, New Labour was a disaster so nobody will want to return to that. It is time to form a new party
You know they won 3 back to back election right?"
.
So how did they lose those 240 seats from there first election to the last? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As much as I dislike the left, New Labour was a disaster so nobody will want to return to that. It is time to form a new party
You know they won 3 back to back election right?"
I think you are missing the point as usual. Nobody with more than half a brain would vote for them AGAIN. Would you?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As much as I dislike the left, New Labour was a disaster so nobody will want to return to that. It is time to form a new party
You know they won 3 back to back election right?
I think you are missing the point as usual. Nobody with more than half a brain would vote for them AGAIN. Would you? "
I think the young people will vote for labour the Conservatives have done nothing but fuck them over and over just like people like you who voted Brexit for a change in think they will do the same |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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hmmmmmmmm so you want to go back to the future Marty, a time when our glorious chancellor sold off all our gold reserves for a bargain basement price for starters, a time when one of the most terribly inept prime ministers we've ever had the whole world with then then US president embroiled in a war which is still going on and could lead to WW3,
A time when the most ridiculous handout of benefits nearly bankrupted us and one of the ministers left a note saying their's no money left and a time when the then chancellor " saved the world" by bailing out the banks with billions of taxpayers money and left us in the pickle financially we are in now.
Great Scott Marty.
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"As much as I dislike the left, New Labour was a disaster so nobody will want to return to that. It is time to form a new party
You know they won 3 back to back election right?.
So how did they lose those 240 seats from there first election to the last?"
2015: Conservative government with 330 seats
2010: Conservative lead coalition with 306 seat (Con)
2005: Labour government with 355 seats
2001: Labour government with 413 seats
1997: Labour government with 418 seats
So its pretty clear that New Labour were electorally successful. Getting back to the OP, will Labour go further left after the GE, or towards the centre? |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
I think their will be civil war a losing Labour party.
Corbyn's backers in the trade unions will have to think on how much more that they can bankroll him.
Moderates will want rid and a new hierarchy in place.
Two separate parties to emerge? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As much as I dislike the left, New Labour was a disaster so nobody will want to return to that. It is time to form a new party
You know they won 3 back to back election right?.
So how did they lose those 240 seats from there first election to the last?
2015: Conservative government with 330 seats
2010: Conservative lead coalition with 306 seat (Con)
2005: Labour government with 355 seats
2001: Labour government with 413 seats
1997: Labour government with 418 seats
So its pretty clear that New Labour were electorally successful. Getting back to the OP, will Labour go further left after the GE, or towards the centre?"
.
How many seats did labour get under Gordon brown in 2010?.
You skipped that and went straight to how many seats the Tories got |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"As much as I dislike the left, New Labour was a disaster so nobody will want to return to that. It is time to form a new party
You know they won 3 back to back election right?.
So how did they lose those 240 seats from there first election to the last?
2015: Conservative government with 330 seats
2010: Conservative lead coalition with 306 seat (Con)
2005: Labour government with 355 seats
2001: Labour government with 413 seats
1997: Labour government with 418 seats
So its pretty clear that New Labour were electorally successful. Getting back to the OP, will Labour go further left after the GE, or towards the centre?.
How many seats did labour get under Gordon brown in 2010?.
You skipped that and went straight to how many seats the Tories got"
Sorry I was trying to show the number of seats each government had had since 1997, to show how electorally successful they were, as some people are futility trying to suggest that they weren't electorally successful.
Brown (Labour) got 258 seats in 2010, which is 160 seats less than they had in 1997. Miliband (Labour) got 232 seats in 2015 which is 186 less seat than they had in 1997.
I would say that Brown was to left of Blair, and Miliband was to the left of Brown, and Corbyn is to the left of Miliband. I think most people would agree with that assessment. Therefore looking at the figures its clear to see that the further the Labour party go to the left, the less seats they win.
So going back to the OP, will Labour continue this trend to the left, or reverse and head back towards the centre, if they lose seats in the GE that is.
Out of interest, where are you getting your figure of 240 seats from? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As much as I dislike the left, New Labour was a disaster so nobody will want to return to that. It is time to form a new party
You know they won 3 back to back election right?
I think you are missing the point as usual. Nobody with more than half a brain would vote for them AGAIN. Would you? I think the young people will vote for labour the Conservatives have done nothing but fuck them over and over just like people like you who voted Brexit for a change in think they will do the same "
I don't doubt it, as they say, you live and learn. The Conservatives have fucked them over? I didn't realise they ran Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, France et al. How are the young doing there? (But I suppose that too is down to those countries governments and nothing to do with the EU  ) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As much as I dislike the left, New Labour was a disaster so nobody will want to return to that. It is time to form a new party
You know they won 3 back to back election right?.
So how did they lose those 240 seats from there first election to the last?
2015: Conservative government with 330 seats
2010: Conservative lead coalition with 306 seat (Con)
2005: Labour government with 355 seats
2001: Labour government with 413 seats
1997: Labour government with 418 seats
So its pretty clear that New Labour were electorally successful. Getting back to the OP, will Labour go further left after the GE, or towards the centre?.
How many seats did labour get under Gordon brown in 2010?.
You skipped that and went straight to how many seats the Tories got
Sorry I was trying to show the number of seats each government had had since 1997, to show how electorally successful they were, as some people are futility trying to suggest that they weren't electorally successful.
Brown (Labour) got 258 seats in 2010, which is 160 seats less than they had in 1997. Miliband (Labour) got 232 seats in 2015 which is 186 less seat than they had in 1997.
I would say that Brown was to left of Blair, and Miliband was to the left of Brown, and Corbyn is to the left of Miliband. I think most people would agree with that assessment. Therefore looking at the figures its clear to see that the further the Labour party go to the left, the less seats they win.
So going back to the OP, will Labour continue this trend to the left, or reverse and head back towards the centre, if they lose seats in the GE that is.
Out of interest, where are you getting your figure of 240 seats from?"
.
240 i should have pointed out was the majority difference from 97-2010.
If we skip 2010 and just look from 97-05 we can see they still lost 60 odd seats under Blair and at a time of great "economic growth".
I mean you'd think there'd have gained 60 instead of losing 60?.
Political parties get in and lose on the economy, always have done, nearly always the economic upturns and down turns are natural cycles and nothing to do political parties although i think political decisions often hamper or improve the outcome of that natural cycle, ie the Tories made the mistake of a housing boom to live off in the 80s which eventually made the coming recession worse when it hit in 89- never really recovering until 96 by which time Blair had come to power because of Tory mismanagement of the economy.. The problem being he just made the exact same mistake as the Tories (mainly because he was one) and now thanks to labour mismanagement of the economy the Tories are in!.
Now when things eventually go wrong(and they will).
I'd rather have a party that actually wont follow in the exact same direction as the current bunch of wankers thats just been thrown out for being failures.
This might actually involve some patience and holding on to your beliefs instead of chopping and changing to suit a public thats quite frankly suicidal at times |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"As much as I dislike the left, New Labour was a disaster so nobody will want to return to that. It is time to form a new party
You know they won 3 back to back election right?.
So how did they lose those 240 seats from there first election to the last?
2015: Conservative government with 330 seats
2010: Conservative lead coalition with 306 seat (Con)
2005: Labour government with 355 seats
2001: Labour government with 413 seats
1997: Labour government with 418 seats
So its pretty clear that New Labour were electorally successful. Getting back to the OP, will Labour go further left after the GE, or towards the centre?.
How many seats did labour get under Gordon brown in 2010?.
You skipped that and went straight to how many seats the Tories got
Sorry I was trying to show the number of seats each government had had since 1997, to show how electorally successful they were, as some people are futility trying to suggest that they weren't electorally successful.
Brown (Labour) got 258 seats in 2010, which is 160 seats less than they had in 1997. Miliband (Labour) got 232 seats in 2015 which is 186 less seat than they had in 1997.
I would say that Brown was to left of Blair, and Miliband was to the left of Brown, and Corbyn is to the left of Miliband. I think most people would agree with that assessment. Therefore looking at the figures its clear to see that the further the Labour party go to the left, the less seats they win.
So going back to the OP, will Labour continue this trend to the left, or reverse and head back towards the centre, if they lose seats in the GE that is.
Out of interest, where are you getting your figure of 240 seats from?.
240 i should have pointed out was the majority difference from 97-2010.
If we skip 2010 and just look from 97-05 we can see they still lost 60 odd seats under Blair and at a time of great "economic growth".
I mean you'd think there'd have gained 60 instead of losing 60?.
Political parties get in and lose on the economy, always have done, nearly always the economic upturns and down turns are natural cycles and nothing to do political parties although i think political decisions often hamper or improve the outcome of that natural cycle, ie the Tories made the mistake of a housing boom to live off in the 80s which eventually made the coming recession worse when it hit in 89- never really recovering until 96 by which time Blair had come to power because of Tory mismanagement of the economy.. The problem being he just made the exact same mistake as the Tories (mainly because he was one) and now thanks to labour mismanagement of the economy the Tories are in!.
Now when things eventually go wrong(and they will).
I'd rather have a party that actually wont follow in the exact same direction as the current bunch of wankers thats just been thrown out for being failures.
This might actually involve some patience and holding on to your beliefs instead of chopping and changing to suit a public thats quite frankly suicidal at times"
It is unusual for governments to increase the number of seats whilst they are the party of power, therefore thats a rather daft way of measuring electoral success in my view. Look at the 2001 result, Labour got 413 seats, a massive majority, but they lost 5 seats. Compare that to the Conservatives in 2015, the conservatives increased their MPs by 24, however only have a slim majority.
I still don’t understand your 240 figure. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As much as I dislike the left, New Labour was a disaster so nobody will want to return to that. It is time to form a new party
You know they won 3 back to back election right?.
So how did they lose those 240 seats from there first election to the last?
2015: Conservative government with 330 seats
2010: Conservative lead coalition with 306 seat (Con)
2005: Labour government with 355 seats
2001: Labour government with 413 seats
1997: Labour government with 418 seats
So its pretty clear that New Labour were electorally successful. Getting back to the OP, will Labour go further left after the GE, or towards the centre?.
How many seats did labour get under Gordon brown in 2010?.
You skipped that and went straight to how many seats the Tories got
Sorry I was trying to show the number of seats each government had had since 1997, to show how electorally successful they were, as some people are futility trying to suggest that they weren't electorally successful.
Brown (Labour) got 258 seats in 2010, which is 160 seats less than they had in 1997. Miliband (Labour) got 232 seats in 2015 which is 186 less seat than they had in 1997.
I would say that Brown was to left of Blair, and Miliband was to the left of Brown, and Corbyn is to the left of Miliband. I think most people would agree with that assessment. Therefore looking at the figures its clear to see that the further the Labour party go to the left, the less seats they win.
So going back to the OP, will Labour continue this trend to the left, or reverse and head back towards the centre, if they lose seats in the GE that is.
Out of interest, where are you getting your figure of 240 seats from?.
240 i should have pointed out was the majority difference from 97-2010.
If we skip 2010 and just look from 97-05 we can see they still lost 60 odd seats under Blair and at a time of great "economic growth".
I mean you'd think there'd have gained 60 instead of losing 60?.
Political parties get in and lose on the economy, always have done, nearly always the economic upturns and down turns are natural cycles and nothing to do political parties although i think political decisions often hamper or improve the outcome of that natural cycle, ie the Tories made the mistake of a housing boom to live off in the 80s which eventually made the coming recession worse when it hit in 89- never really recovering until 96 by which time Blair had come to power because of Tory mismanagement of the economy.. The problem being he just made the exact same mistake as the Tories (mainly because he was one) and now thanks to labour mismanagement of the economy the Tories are in!.
Now when things eventually go wrong(and they will).
I'd rather have a party that actually wont follow in the exact same direction as the current bunch of wankers thats just been thrown out for being failures.
This might actually involve some patience and holding on to your beliefs instead of chopping and changing to suit a public thats quite frankly suicidal at times
It is unusual for governments to increase the number of seats whilst they are the party of power, therefore thats a rather daft way of measuring electoral success in my view. Look at the 2001 result, Labour got 413 seats, a massive majority, but they lost 5 seats. Compare that to the Conservatives in 2015, the conservatives increased their MPs by 24, however only have a slim majority.
I still don’t understand your 240 figure."
.
No it's not unusual at all, in fact its more common than not.
Eden, Wilson and Thatcher all increased there vote from their first election, in fact the only time they dont is when they hit economic trouble in the first term!.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Kingdom_general_elections |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
If Labour is decimated I feel there will be a new party as old leftish ideas to not appeal to the majority in the modern world.
People in the main our relitely well off owning cars,gadgets having holidays overseas etc.
The days of the dark satanic mills are gone.
Yes there is an underclass developing but that will not effect how most people vote as they vote in there own self interest that is the way of the world. |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"If Labour is decimated I feel there will be a new party as old leftish ideas to not appeal to the majority in the modern world.
People in the main our relitely well off owning cars,gadgets having holidays overseas etc.
The days of the dark satanic mills are gone.
Yes there is an underclass developing but that will not effect how most people vote as they vote in there own self interest that is the way of the world."
I agree, I don't think that far left policies appeal to the majority of the UK population. I think most want good schools and hospitals, but aren't interested in things such as re-nationalising industries such as the railways. |
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New Labour was what we all wanted for most of it's tenure, the rot only came in towards the end when Brown & Blaire couldn't agree on change of Leadership. Iraq should have been handled differently, but it does not mean everything that was achieved by the Labour Government at the time was wrong.
It is just used by the left wing of the Labour Party to destroy the party. It is telling that the Communist Party GB is not putting candidates up as they are confident in Labour... and its leadership!  |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"If Labour is decimated I feel there will be a new party as old leftish ideas to not appeal to the majority in the modern world.
People in the main our relitely well off owning cars,gadgets having holidays overseas etc.
The days of the dark satanic mills are gone.
Yes there is an underclass developing but that will not effect how most people vote as they vote in there own self interest that is the way of the world.
I agree, I don't think that far left policies appeal to the majority of the UK population. I think most want good schools and hospitals, but aren't interested in things such as re-nationalising industries such as the railways. "
We have our differences but we can also agree which is good |
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"If Labour gets decimated at the GE, what will be its future? Will it return to the political success of New Labour, or will it decide that the reason it lost was because it wasn’t far enough to the left and go even further away from the centre ground?"
Firstly I think that Labour will be decimated on June 8th.
Where will it go from there?
In normal circumstances you would expect the leader (Corbyn) to resign but I've a sneaking feeling that he could try to tough it out and stay in the job, but we will see.
The real problem for Labour is that no matter what happens with Corbyn the Momentum movement and Unite are well and truly in charge of the party's grass roots and they will either try to stick with Corbyn or get another leader from the far (hard) left.
Should either happen (and the odds are that one will) it will put Labour into terminal decline. The result being either a split in the party, or massive defections to the Lib Dems, or both.
Unless Labour can find a leader who will lance the boil of the hard left (as Kinnock did with Militant) I think they are destined to become Britain's third (or worse) party before the end of the decade.
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"As much as I dislike the left, New Labour was a disaster so nobody will want to return to that. It is time to form a new party
You know they won 3 back to back election right?
I think you are missing the point as usual. Nobody with more than half a brain would vote for them AGAIN. Would you? "
I disagree. If Labour had a decent leader and a clear policy on BREXIT, either way, they'd be doing a lot better than they currently are. However, whether they'll ever be able to recover from what looks likely to be a thrashing at this election is another question. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As much as I dislike the left, New Labour was a disaster so nobody will want to return to that. It is time to form a new party
You know they won 3 back to back election right?
I think you are missing the point as usual. Nobody with more than half a brain would vote for them AGAIN. Would you?
I disagree. If Labour had a decent leader and a clear policy on BREXIT, either way, they'd be doing a lot better than they currently are. However, whether they'll ever be able to recover from what looks likely to be a thrashing at this election is another question."
Labour will recover. They are where the tories were about 20 years ago. Disenchantment and frustration is never far away no matter who is in government, fickle creatures us humans. |
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"If you liked New Labour - ther is a party for you to vote for. It's called the Conservative Party.
"
It's those sorts of comments from the hard left that's probably encouraging many former New Labour voters to actually vote Conservative. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. |
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"As much as I dislike the left, New Labour was a disaster so nobody will want to return to that. It is time to form a new party
You know they won 3 back to back election right?
I think you are missing the point as usual. Nobody with more than half a brain would vote for them AGAIN. Would you?
I disagree. If Labour had a decent leader and a clear policy on BREXIT, either way, they'd be doing a lot better than they currently are. However, whether they'll ever be able to recover from what looks likely to be a thrashing at this election is another question.
Labour will recover. They are where the tories were about 20 years ago. Disenchantment and frustration is never far away no matter who is in government, fickle creatures us humans."
You have a point but there is a big difference. New Labour won because most people wanted what they wanted whereas in this election Labour is going to loose not because most people want a Conservative government but because they're scared stupid at the thought of a Jeremy Corbyn hard left government. |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"If you liked New Labour - ther is a party for you to vote for. It's called the Conservative Party.
It's those sorts of comments from the hard left that's probably encouraging many former New Labour voters to actually vote Conservative. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot."
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Labour will lose heavily...No leadership and no coherent policy on the main political issue of the day...The Tories like the SNP will capitalise on this lack of opposistion and win a massive majority..Then in 5yrs or so be turfed out when we will be in the same shit we are at present.....It is the way of all politics it is all cycles  |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"If you liked New Labour - ther is a party for you to vote for. It's called the Conservative Party.
It's those sorts of comments from the hard left that's probably encouraging many former New Labour voters to actually vote Conservative. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot."
Not really. I can't see the point in Americain style politics of focus groups and parties making policies purely to gain power.
For me, it makes no difference whether New Labour or the Tories were in power, the outcome is the same. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If Labour gets decimated at the GE, what will be its future? Will it return to the political success of New Labour, or will it decide that the reason it lost was because it wasn’t far enough to the left and go even further away from the centre ground?
Firstly I think that Labour will be decimated on June 8th.
Where will it go from there?
In normal circumstances you would expect the leader (Corbyn) to resign but I've a sneaking feeling that he could try to tough it out and stay in the job, but we will see.
The real problem for Labour is that no matter what happens with Corbyn the Momentum movement and Unite are well and truly in charge of the party's grass roots and they will either try to stick with Corbyn or get another leader from the far (hard) left.
Should either happen (and the odds are that one will) it will put Labour into terminal decline. The result being either a split in the party, or massive defections to the Lib Dems, or both.
Unless Labour can find a leader who will lance the boil of the hard left (as Kinnock did with Militant) I think they are destined to become Britain's third (or worse) party before the end of the decade.
"
Yeah, Labour as we know it are at the precipice and if it's not already happening I suspect there will be the mother of all civil wars between puppet masters Len McCluskey/Militant and Blair/New Labour...and I think Blair, Umana and their City Banker friends will lose it. |
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"hmmmmmmmm so you want to go back to the future Marty, a time when our glorious chancellor sold off all our gold reserves for a bargain basement price for starters, a time when one of the most terribly inept prime ministers we've ever had the whole world with then then US president embroiled in a war which is still going on and could lead to WW3,
A time when the most ridiculous handout of benefits nearly bankrupted us and one of the ministers left a note saying their's no money left and a time when the then chancellor " saved the world" by bailing out the banks with billions of taxpayers money and left us in the pickle financially we are in now.
Great Scott Marty.
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Blairs greatest success was his first government from 1997 to 2001. They were elected on an economic promise of "Sticking to the conservatives policy and plans"... a good idea as at the time things were looking good economically.
Growth was rising, inflation and unemployment falling (after the crap the tories had presided over in most of the the 80s and early 90s). |
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"As much as I dislike the left, New Labour was a disaster so nobody will want to return to that. It is time to form a new party
You know they won 3 back to back election right?.
So how did they lose those 240 seats from there first election to the last?
2015: Conservative government with 330 seats
2010: Conservative lead coalition with 306 seat (Con)
2005: Labour government with 355 seats
2001: Labour government with 413 seats
1997: Labour government with 418 seats
So its pretty clear that New Labour were electorally successful. Getting back to the OP, will Labour go further left after the GE, or towards the centre?"
Which ever direction they choose to go in they are well and truly fucked wil JC and DA are at the helm
Long may they lead it's a pleasure to watch them fall apart whilst merrily saying they are the future |
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