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Election 2017
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Am I the only one who wonders what's going on when people moan "oh no not another election".
Gosh two in two years and a referendum to make a major change in our country's future. How dare we get asked for our views.
Many people are literally dying to get democracy and we are complaining when we're asked our views!
Back in the day The Chartists wanted annual elections. What a crazy idea!
Can't believe it... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I predict we will come back to the eu as there will be a twist in the election, democracy will win  "
I thought it was democracy that took us out of Europe ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why would democracy win by going back to the EU?Because with brexit we will see less of it."
I voted to stay, but i dunno if I agree with this.
Would we see more democracy at the whim of a governing body where the leaders aren't elected? That sounds like a bad start to me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I predict we will come back to the eu as there will be a twist in the election, democracy will win "
Shag shag....see you just had to get it moved to politics  |
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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
I have no problem with elections and referenda, although I'll be away for this one. Its the weeks, and weeks, and fucking weeks or blatant pandering, lies, and bollocks I have to see in the news, on the web, and even in sites like this one. Its wearing.
4 years, 4 votes, not counting local elections. I need a break. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why would democracy win by going back to the EU?Because with brexit we will see less of it."
Explain shag ?
"Why would democracy win by going back to the EU?Because with brexit we will see less of it.
I voted to stay, but i dunno if I agree with this.
Would we see more democracy at the whim of a governing body where the leaders aren't elected? That sounds like a bad start to me. "
That is right with the voting and how they elect pms without the peoples choice, also how they dont let scotland have a say. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I predict we will come back to the eu as there will be a twist in the election, democracy will win
Shag shag....see you just had to get it moved to politics "
Yes, the politics room lol. |
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"Am I the only one who wonders what's going on when people moan "oh no not another election".
Gosh two in two years and a referendum to make a major change in our country's future. How dare we get asked for our views.
Many people are literally dying to get democracy and we are complaining when we're asked our views!
Back in the day The Chartists wanted annual elections. What a crazy idea!
Can't believe it..."
I think it is the U turns, and cynicism behind calling it that is vexing people. There was no need to call it, after MPs spent days debating the bill that brought in fixed terms...  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why would democracy win by going back to the EU?Because with brexit we will see less of it.
I voted to stay, but i dunno if I agree with this.
Would we see more democracy at the whim of a governing body where the leaders aren't elected? That sounds like a bad start to me. "
The EU is a trading body not a federal political organisation. As such it has no parliament for people to elect and the UK has been avid in advocating it stay this way. Without it we'll have our own trading bodies, dealing with issues of trade that the EU used to deal with, and none of them will be electable either. That's the truth behind the whole "it's unelectable" con trick the brexiteers pulled over the nation's eyes. |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"I have no problem with elections and referenda, although I'll be away for this one. Its the weeks, and weeks, and fucking weeks or blatant pandering, lies, and bollocks I have to see in the news, on the web, and even in sites like this one. Its wearing.
4 years, 4 votes, not counting local elections. I need a break."
this, maybe. only media i use now is fb and there is some political stuff on there but not too much yet.
don't even know who i want to vote for, all seem useless and the ones who are the least useless won't get in so i'm very meh about it all.
plus i just wanna set politicians on fire instead. |
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When Politics was moved to its own room I thought it was a shame.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and of course it was the right thing to do.
So I think it will be sad if it is allowed to creep back in to the Lounge. Not because I am not interested in politics, in fact I am very interest.
But because it seems very few people in here can discuss this amicably. The nastiness and name calling I see when I do look in the politics threads is, quite frankly, pathetic.
I'm also fed up of bigoted, sexist, racist posters who pretend to understand our country, political system and how democracy operates here, yet clearly do not.
 |
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By *rueone71Man
over a year ago
Hiding in the Barnes |
A friend send me a picture with May featured in PornHub as she's at her desk signing the Art50 (I'm pretty sure was a photo montage..Lol..ye...must have  )
The title of the picture was: "MILF fuck a whole country at once" .
I don't like politics...but...I'm cracking myself since. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I predict we will come back to the eu as there will be a twist in the election, democracy will win "
Er, in a word, dreamon
The vote to leave underlined to politicians quite how out of touch they all were living in the London bubble, they all know none of the dire things predicted if we voted to leave have happened and are looking after their best interests. Besides, we had a vote, what do you want to do keep voting until you get the answer your want? That's not democracy my friend.
And ic you can get 27 fabbers to agree on something as easily as 2 or 3, I will give you a pound and you should be running for office yourself.
Alternatively put (no 1), its like the gym, if you are fit and they charge you more because of that, why not leave .
Alternative 2, if none of your neighbors had fences to their gardens would you be surprised if the dog from 6 doors away shat in your garden
Alternative 3: fuck the eu
The worst thing about this election is the lack of real change alternatives, and lack of proportional representation, and turnout is going to be shit because nobody can be bothered
TBH
Trump is the one to worry about , and if anyone suggests assassinating him remember his deputy (pence) is a theocrat, meaning he literally believes god put him on earth to govern...
ah I hate politics... as a wise man once said it's too important to be left with anybody else
peace out |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why would democracy win by going back to the EU?Because with brexit we will see less of it."
I would ask you to explain why, but I fear your brain might catch fire... just for a minute...
Do you drive a BMW by any chance |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"
I'm also fed up of bigoted, sexist, racist posters who pretend to understand our country, political system and how democracy operates here, yet clearly do not.
"
I've been kind of surprised about the politics of a few round here, I'd always thought that swingers would be a load of hippies....
How wrong I was.....
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"The vote to leave underlined to politicians quite how out of touch they all were living in the London bubble, they all know none of the dire things predicted if we voted to leave have happened and are looking after their best interests."
London bubble? You mean the London-Bristol-Scotland-Northern Ireland-Gibralter-Stroud-Oxford-Maidenhead-many-other-places bubble?
-Matt |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Why would democracy win by going back to the EU?Because with brexit we will see less of it.
I voted to stay, but i dunno if I agree with this.
Would we see more democracy at the whim of a governing body where the leaders aren't elected? That sounds like a bad start to me.
The EU is a trading body not a federal political organisation. As such it has no parliament for people to elect and the UK has been avid in advocating it stay this way. Without it we'll have our own trading bodies, dealing with issues of trade that the EU used to deal with, and none of them will be electable either. That's the truth behind the whole "it's unelectable" con trick the brexiteers pulled over the nation's eyes. "
Not a political organisation?
This from europa.eu,
The European Union is a unique economic and political union between 28 European countries that together cover much of the continent.
So, not a political organisation then? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why would democracy win by going back to the EU?Because with brexit we will see less of it.
I voted to stay, but i dunno if I agree with this.
Would we see more democracy at the whim of a governing body where the leaders aren't elected? That sounds like a bad start to me.
The EU is a trading body not a federal political organisation. As such it has no parliament for people to elect and the UK has been avid in advocating it stay this way. Without it we'll have our own trading bodies, dealing with issues of trade that the EU used to deal with, and none of them will be electable either. That's the truth behind the whole "it's unelectable" con trick the brexiteers pulled over the nation's eyes.
Not a political organisation?
This from europa.eu,
The European Union is a unique economic and political union between 28 European countries that together cover much of the continent.
So, not a political organisation then?"
Hear hear ! Well put, from the horses mouth not the fabber's arse...
and wtf do some people believe... "con trick?" Wtf? What con is it for people *without* self interest (for instance the lure of a greedy mp salary) to have the foresight and intelligence tell the truth, in advance, *as demonstrated* by all those Cameron (Toff arse) scare stories that *didn't* happen... and I suppose the idea of it being a con trick wouldn't have applied if the vote went his way ?
The ex governor of the Bank of England Melvin king said "give it 10 years and everyone will realize how trivial brexit actually was..." and by then the eu will by the way have ceased to exist is my guess...
Oh and Get ready to hear Frexit pretty soon... yes sadly (as note, I am a *non* racist male feminist tolerant atheist pacifist vegetarian) the right wing will probably dominate the French polls...
Ps
And MEPs are of course not politicians... no no they are what tradesmen? Sales negotiators ?
Christ on a bike, I'm getting off this thread before I have an aneurysm...
Pps
Any pro brexit women in Kent want to suck me off to relieve the pressure ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The vote to leave underlined to politicians quite how out of touch they all were living in the London bubble, they all know none of the dire things predicted if we voted to leave have happened and are looking after their best interests.
London bubble? You mean the London-Bristol-Scotland-Northern Ireland-Gibralter-Stroud-Oxford-Maidenhead-many-other-places bubble?
-Matt"
You forgot Reading...
My sister in law is from there, she went ape shit, actually said after the result that anyone under 30 should have had 2 votes as if would affect them for longer... *and* also people who were 18 at the time of the vote to join the European...wtf ? |
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"The vote to leave underlined to politicians quite how out of touch they all were living in the London bubble, they all know none of the dire things predicted if we voted to leave have happened and are looking after their best interests.
London bubble? You mean the London-Bristol-Scotland-Northern Ireland-Gibralter-Stroud-Oxford-Maidenhead-many-other-places bubble?
-Matt"
That's called the minority bubble. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'll say it again. The EU is a trading body not a federal political organisation. As such it has no parliament for people to elect and the UK has been avid in advocating it stay this way. Without it we'll have our own trading bodies, dealing with issues of trade that the EU used to deal with, and none of them will be electable either. That's the truth behind the whole "it's unelectable" con trick the brexiteers pulled over the nation's eyes.
You can froth at the mouth all you want but it's simply the case. The EU rule on what shape a cucumber should be. They have totally unaccountable unelected shadowy figures ruling on what shape a cucumber should be. That's because it's a trading body. And when we've left we'll employ our own British unelected shadowy people to rule on what shape a cucumber should be... and guess what... if we want to sell our cucumbers on the continent they'll need to be the same shape.
The trouble with this debate is that confirmation bias took a hold of it years ago when the people against it stopped even making the effort to understand it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'll say it again. The EU is a trading body not a federal political organisation. As such it has no parliament for people to elect and the UK has been avid in advocating it stay this way. Without it we'll have our own trading bodies, dealing with issues of trade that the EU used to deal with, and none of them will be electable either. That's the truth behind the whole "it's unelectable" con trick the brexiteers pulled over the nation's eyes.
You can froth at the mouth all you want but it's simply the case. The EU rule on what shape a cucumber should be. They have totally unaccountable unelected shadowy figures ruling on what shape a cucumber should be. That's because it's a trading body. And when we've left we'll employ our own British unelected shadowy people to rule on what shape a cucumber should be... and guess what... if we want to sell our cucumbers on the continent they'll need to be the same shape.
The trouble with this debate is that confirmation bias took a hold of it years ago when the people against it stopped even making the effort to understand it "
1) the bent cucumbers histrionics is old news they *are* being sold in europe now, contrary to eu rules as an alternative to binning them (especially in France, soon to be frexiteers)
2) our shadowy unelected guys (and girls) could choose to sell said whatever shape cucumber to *whoever the fuck they want* rather throw it away or wait for 26 others to agree
3) bent cucumbers hit your g spot better
Possibly what you need
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"I'll say it again. The EU is a trading body not a federal political organisation. As such it has no parliament for people to elect and the UK has been avid in advocating it stay this way. Without it we'll have our own trading bodies, dealing with issues of trade that the EU used to deal with, and none of them will be electable either. That's the truth behind the whole "it's unelectable" con trick the brexiteers pulled over the nation's eyes.
You can froth at the mouth all you want but it's simply the case. The EU rule on what shape a cucumber should be. They have totally unaccountable unelected shadowy figures ruling on what shape a cucumber should be. That's because it's a trading body. And when we've left we'll employ our own British unelected shadowy people to rule on what shape a cucumber should be... and guess what... if we want to sell our cucumbers on the continent they'll need to be the same shape.
The trouble with this debate is that confirmation bias took a hold of it years ago when the people against it stopped even making the effort to understand it "
So the EU doesn't have or make policies, rules, procedures, laws, etc on;
Taxation
Defence and security
Environment
Immigration
Health and Safety
Welfare
|
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"I'll say it again. The EU is a trading body not a federal political organisation. As such it has no parliament for people to elect and the UK has been avid in advocating it stay this way. Without it we'll have our own trading bodies, dealing with issues of trade that the EU used to deal with, and none of them will be electable either. That's the truth behind the whole "it's unelectable" con trick the brexiteers pulled over the nation's eyes.
You can froth at the mouth all you want but it's simply the case. The EU rule on what shape a cucumber should be. They have totally unaccountable unelected shadowy figures ruling on what shape a cucumber should be. That's because it's a trading body. And when we've left we'll employ our own British unelected shadowy people to rule on what shape a cucumber should be... and guess what... if we want to sell our cucumbers on the continent they'll need to be the same shape.
The trouble with this debate is that confirmation bias took a hold of it years ago when the people against it stopped even making the effort to understand it "
Who is your MEP?
I remember voting in the EU Parliament elections.
Are you thick? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Blimey. And they say Brexiters didn't know what they were voting for  "
They got the gran bretana fantasy of ruling the world and waving flags, like they did 300 years ago. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'll say it again. The EU is a trading body...
Who is your MEP?
I remember voting in the EU Parliament elections.
Are you thick?"
Bang on sir/madam ! And bravo for being honest. You hit the nail on the head, or perhaps for this venue I should say "hit the twat on the clit"
Some people are *so* thick they are simply unable to comprehend how thick they are, and rather than use their 2 spare brain cells to educate themselves or think logically ("wait a minute... there's a *parliament* in europe, ergo...") [note to op: look up "ergo" in your ladybird book of words], instead they congregate with others who think the same way (ok this could also be said of politicians ha ha) and mumble it's not fair (because they are too thick to understand democracy, at least when they lose) until one of them eventually says " what would be really democratic, even though those leave campaigners were clearly wrong as seen after the event - we should have another referendum !!!"
yeah right...
Ps any woman that agrees with me I would be very happy to shout "Fuck the eu!" While honking you..., any hole, I'm a rationalist if nothing else |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So the EU doesn't have or make policies, rules, procedures, laws, etc on;
Taxation
Defence and security
Environment
Immigration
Health and Safety
Welfare"
Where the member nations agree, the EU passes laws on such issues. Where its clear issues need to be resolved across borders and all the member nations agree then the EU acts like the United Nations, and devises rules that all members have signed up to. A kind of list of things they all agree on, all including the UK. So these are all laws we would have made ourselves, we will continue to make similar laws to the EU, working with it on key issues of security and the environment, and the people who make those laws here in the UK are also unelectable. This is the truth behind the whole "they're ruling over us with their silly laws" con trick the brexiteers pulled over the nation's eyes.
Note that the EU has no military or police force or penal system and so is utterly incapable of enforcing any of its laws. It has none of these things, nor a parliament which rules over us and which we vote for, because it's just an international body, a trading body, a club that works to benefit its member states. Instead, the laws need to be implemented and enforced by each member nation. That's because each member nation is a separate sovereign nation state with its own democratic government that needs deeply respecting, as everyone at the EU does.
You see there are several levels of con here. If you want to froth at the mouth and go off on a tirade about an evil one world Jewish conspiracy where the UN and EU are trying to ensnare the world under the despotic iron fist rule of the antichrist... I hear Trump has an opening for a speach writer |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So the EU doesn't have or make policies, rules, procedures, laws, etc on;
Taxation
Defence and security
Environment
Immigration
Health and Safety
Welfare
Where the member nations agree, the EU passes laws on such issues. Where its clear issues need to be resolved across borders and all the member nations agree then the EU acts like the United Nations, and devises rules that all members have signed up to. A kind of list of things they all agree on, all including the UK. So these are all laws we would have made ourselves, we will continue to make similar laws to the EU, working with it on key issues of security and the environment, and the people who make those laws here in the UK are also unelectable. This is the truth behind the whole "they're ruling over us with their silly laws" con trick the brexiteers pulled over the nation's eyes.
Note that the EU has no military or police force or penal system and so is utterly incapable of enforcing any of its laws. It has none of these things, nor a parliament which rules over us and which we vote for, because it's just an international body, a trading body, a club that works to benefit its member states. Instead, the laws need to be implemented and enforced by each member nation. That's because each member nation is a separate sovereign nation state with its own democratic government that needs deeply respecting, as everyone at the EU does.
You see there are several levels of con here. If you want to froth at the mouth and go off on a tirade about an evil one world Jewish conspiracy where the UN and EU are trying to ensnare the world under the despotic iron fist rule of the antichrist... I hear Trump has an opening for a speach writer "
 who votes for MEP's? And where are they voted to and what do they do? Have you ever heard of someone called Nigel Farage? |
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"A friend send me a picture with May featured in PornHub as she's at her desk signing the Art50 (I'm pretty sure was a photo montage..Lol..ye...must have )
The title of the picture was: "MILF fuck a whole country at once" .
I don't like politics...but...I'm cracking myself since."
I don't get it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It has none of these things, nor a parliament which rules over us and which we vote for, because it's just an international body, a trading body, a club that works to benefit its member states."
I apologise. For those who've become utterly confused about what the EU is, they'll find my blanket denial that it has a parliament odd. Yes, the EU has a body that it rather pompously calls a "parliament". But it isn't a parliament in the proper sense of the word. It doesn't rule over us. It rules over itself.
The UN is similar. There's the general assembly, filled with unelected representatives of the various states, and the secretariat, a body of unelected civil servants who run the machinery of the organisation. The EU has the same assembly of nation states and it has a body of unelected bureaucrats who run the organisation. Where it differs from the UN is that it has aspirations of being a federal body, bringing Europe together into a political union. But this is something the UK has continually thwarted so it isn't that at the moment... it's just a distant ambition. Due to this ambition, however, it has a democratic body of MEP's that we can elect that help shape the organisation. So its like the UN but more democratic, which makes sense as all its members are proudly democratic and share our values. |
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"It has none of these things, nor a parliament which rules over us and which we vote for, because it's just an international body, a trading body, a club that works to benefit its member states.
I apologise. For those who've become utterly confused about what the EU is, they'll find my blanket denial that it has a parliament odd. Yes, the EU has a body that it rather pompously calls a "parliament". But it isn't a parliament in the proper sense of the word. It doesn't rule over us. It rules over itself.
The UN is similar. There's the general assembly, filled with unelected representatives of the various states, and the secretariat, a body of unelected civil servants who run the machinery of the organisation. The EU has the same assembly of nation states and it has a body of unelected bureaucrats who run the organisation. Where it differs from the UN is that it has aspirations of being a federal body, bringing Europe together into a political union. But this is something the UK has continually thwarted so it isn't that at the moment... it's just a distant ambition. Due to this ambition, however, it has a democratic body of MEP's that we can elect that help shape the organisation. So its like the UN but more democratic, which makes sense as all its members are proudly democratic and share our values. "
The EU is a political union. One of its core principles is ever closer union. It has a Parliament (one in Brussels and one in Strasbourg, and the EU wastes billions over the years with the travelling circus from one Parliament to the other). The EU has a flag, the EU has an anthem and now it has designs on an EU army (have a look at the EU five Presidents report for where the EU is heading). The EU have their own law courts and the EU has its own monetary currency, the failed and doomed Euro. Many people wish it had stayed a simple trading body but it has morphed into the unwieldy over bureaucratic monstrosity we see today that interferes in other countries affairs in many areas besides trade and this is why there is growing opposition towards it all over the European continent. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It has none of these things, nor a parliament which rules over us and which we vote for, because it's just an international body, a trading body, a club that works to benefit its member states.
I apologise. For those who've become utterly confused about what the EU is, they'll find my blanket denial that it has a parliament odd. Yes, the EU has a body that it rather pompously calls a "parliament". But it isn't a parliament in the proper sense of the word. It doesn't rule over us. It rules over itself.
The UN is similar. There's the general assembly, filled with unelected representatives of the various states, and the secretariat, a body of unelected civil servants who run the machinery of the organisation. The EU has the same assembly of nation states and it has a body of unelected bureaucrats who run the organisation. Where it differs from the UN is that it has aspirations of being a federal body, bringing Europe together into a political union. But this is something the UK has continually thwarted so it isn't that at the moment... it's just a distant ambition. Due to this ambition, however, it has a democratic body of MEP's that we can elect that help shape the organisation. So its like the UN but more democratic, which makes sense as all its members are proudly democratic and share our values. "
To even SUGGEST all 26 disparate members of the Eu "share the same values (as the uk ?)"
is
Clearly
Insane
I rest my case m'lord, sentence: rest of life being pissed off...
Don't get me wrong I love europe, I visited very many of its countries running multi million pound businesses (pharmaceuticals) and sampled many different cultures, I have one Czech and one Polish in law, I've had an African (Dinka actually) gf (and Chinese and Indian) so I am no racist , but I always wonder how people can delude themselves line this, by skipping over or ignoring facts if they don't fit your opinions [self censoring/ blanking / actually more precisely @ cognitive dissonance" look it up... as in "well ok it has a 'so called' parliament - cracked me up - and if they as you say "police themselves politically" then why is this needed (at great expense) if everyone has the same values ? ???
Admit it, the Euro is the mother of all compromises... so therefore, in a world of instant nation less commerce (i.e. companies that exist nowhere or Choose where the tax incentives (bribes, Shame on you Eire) are the least - the eu is already irrelevant bloated unnecessary exorbitantly expensive self interested er... sack of
Shite... sorry I ran out of erudite
Let's agree to differ shall we, or maybe you go to live in Albania- you'd fit right in after all we share the same values...
Toodke pip, I'm going to have some French bread English cheers and Belgian beer, you I suspect are going to have a damn good spanking... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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op:
I apologise.
Me: no you didn't you just banged on again
Op: For those who've become utterly confused about what the EU is
i.e. YOU one would think ?
Responder: Many people wish it had stayed a simple trading body...
Yeah we joined the *common market* Not the EU...
I'm outta hereit's simply too bonkers bye all peace and love x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"... I hear Trump has an opening for a speach writer "
SPEACH?
You not like wat speak engrish proper hunny
How arrogant is it for you to assume people who disagree with you are right wing and agree with that total cock trump
Now I am offended
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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
"... I hear Trump has an opening for a speach writer
SPEACH?
You not like wat speak engrish proper hunny "
WTF?
Calm the insults. And maybe calm yourself down before you have an aneurism. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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FYI "Parliament" as a word and concept comes from the French (Latin) root "parler" or as *Captain* jack sparrow had it "Parlay"
Any "body politic " that talks about things *is* logically and etymologically, a parliament- especially the Eu, who (just) talk talk talk (repeat...)
Just as someone English such as OP can quite correctly be described as literally *talking bollocks* (hint look it up in a dictionary - that's a word meanings book) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The EU is a political union. One of its core principles is ever closer union. It has a Parliament (one in Brussels and one in Strasbourg, and the EU wastes billions over the years with the travelling circus from one Parliament to the other). The EU has a flag, the EU has an anthem and now it has designs on an EU army (have a look at the EU five Presidents report for where the EU is heading). The EU have their own law courts and the EU has its own monetary currency, the failed and doomed Euro. Many people wish it had stayed a simple trading body but it has morphed into the unwieldy over bureaucratic monstrosity we see today that interferes in other countries affairs in many areas besides trade and this is why there is growing opposition towards it all over the European continent. "
Awww Centaur you're letting your side down. That sounded almost sensible and calm The EU is not a political union as if it was you'd vote for a European President and a European government who'd rule over us. Instead, it's just an international body like the UN that represents the interests of its member states on the global stage. Like people group together to get a better deal by buying in bulk the EU brings such benefits to all its members. You can tell its not a political union because all its members are proudly democratic, secular, and share our values. None of them would surrender such things to a shadowy despotic government in hiding... that's just a wild eyed Trump-like conspiracy theory. But they would and have joined clubs that represent their interests like the UN.
Yes the EU has ambitions of being a United States of Europe. But the UK has been part of blocking that. Perhaps now we're out it'll become that powerful United States of Europe. But the organisation we're leaving isn't that in the slightest. That's the con trick the brexiteers have pulled over the nation's eyes. It was just a rather good club that represented our interests, allowed us to work closely and easily with our neighbours on issues like security and the environment that really demand such cooperation, and did its best to try and make sure wealth was more fairly spread by subsidising farmers, artists, scientists, etc who aren't favoured by a rabid money focused society. But unfortunately it just didn't have the power to prevent the Tories from decimating our poor ex-industrial rural communities with their super harsh austerity policies which kept their rich friends all cosy whilst they stole from those with no power. Then they had the genius to manipulate those very people to point their finger at the EU instead of them. This was particularly extraordinary in Wales, where the rural poor elected to leave the EU despite it being far more generous to them than their own government. So we shot ourselves in the foot. Oh well. We may never be Great again but at least we'll carry on being Britain |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"The EU is a political union. One of its core principles is ever closer union. It has a Parliament (one in Brussels and one in Strasbourg, and the EU wastes billions over the years with the travelling circus from one Parliament to the other). The EU has a flag, the EU has an anthem and now it has designs on an EU army (have a look at the EU five Presidents report for where the EU is heading). The EU have their own law courts and the EU has its own monetary currency, the failed and doomed Euro. Many people wish it had stayed a simple trading body but it has morphed into the unwieldy over bureaucratic monstrosity we see today that interferes in other countries affairs in many areas besides trade and this is why there is growing opposition towards it all over the European continent.
Awww Centaur you're letting your side down. That sounded almost sensible and calm The EU is not a political union as if it was you'd vote for a European President and a European government who'd rule over us. Instead, it's just an international body like the UN that represents the interests of its member states on the global stage. Like people group together to get a better deal by buying in bulk the EU brings such benefits to all its members. You can tell its not a political union because all its members are proudly democratic, secular, and share our values. None of them would surrender such things to a shadowy despotic government in hiding... that's just a wild eyed Trump-like conspiracy theory. But they would and have joined clubs that represent their interests like the UN.
Yes the EU has ambitions of being a United States of Europe. But the UK has been part of blocking that. Perhaps now we're out it'll become that powerful United States of Europe. But the organisation we're leaving isn't that in the slightest. That's the con trick the brexiteers have pulled over the nation's eyes. It was just a rather good club that represented our interests, allowed us to work closely and easily with our neighbours on issues like security and the environment that really demand such cooperation, and did its best to try and make sure wealth was more fairly spread by subsidising farmers, artists, scientists, etc who aren't favoured by a rabid money focused society. But unfortunately it just didn't have the power to prevent the Tories from decimating our poor ex-industrial rural communities with their super harsh austerity policies which kept their rich friends all cosy whilst they stole from those with no power. Then they had the genius to manipulate those very people to point their finger at the EU instead of them. This was particularly extraordinary in Wales, where the rural poor elected to leave the EU despite it being far more generous to them than their own government. So we shot ourselves in the foot. Oh well. We may never be Great again but at least we'll carry on being Britain "
Very well said. Good to see some more common sense on here.
-Matt |
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"The EU is a political union. One of its core principles is ever closer union. It has a Parliament (one in Brussels and one in Strasbourg, and the EU wastes billions over the years with the travelling circus from one Parliament to the other). The EU has a flag, the EU has an anthem and now it has designs on an EU army (have a look at the EU five Presidents report for where the EU is heading). The EU have their own law courts and the EU has its own monetary currency, the failed and doomed Euro. Many people wish it had stayed a simple trading body but it has morphed into the unwieldy over bureaucratic monstrosity we see today that interferes in other countries affairs in many areas besides trade and this is why there is growing opposition towards it all over the European continent.
Awww Centaur you're letting your side down. That sounded almost sensible and calm The EU is not a political union as if it was you'd vote for a European President and a European government who'd rule over us. Instead, it's just an international body like the UN that represents the interests of its member states on the global stage. Like people group together to get a better deal by buying in bulk the EU brings such benefits to all its members. You can tell its not a political union because all its members are proudly democratic, secular, and share our values. None of them would surrender such things to a shadowy despotic government in hiding... that's just a wild eyed Trump-like conspiracy theory. But they would and have joined clubs that represent their interests like the UN.
Yes the EU has ambitions of being a United States of Europe. But the UK has been part of blocking that. Perhaps now we're out it'll become that powerful United States of Europe. But the organisation we're leaving isn't that in the slightest. That's the con trick the brexiteers have pulled over the nation's eyes. It was just a rather good club that represented our interests, allowed us to work closely and easily with our neighbours on issues like security and the environment that really demand such cooperation, and did its best to try and make sure wealth was more fairly spread by subsidising farmers, artists, scientists, etc who aren't favoured by a rabid money focused society. But unfortunately it just didn't have the power to prevent the Tories from decimating our poor ex-industrial rural communities with their super harsh austerity policies which kept their rich friends all cosy whilst they stole from those with no power. Then they had the genius to manipulate those very people to point their finger at the EU instead of them. This was particularly extraordinary in Wales, where the rural poor elected to leave the EU despite it being far more generous to them than their own government. So we shot ourselves in the foot. Oh well. We may never be Great again but at least we'll carry on being Britain "
The EU is not a rather good club it is a rather shit club and the fact the EU President is not elected highlights just how undemocratic this shit club called the EU is. |
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"When Politics was moved to its own room I thought it was a shame.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and of course it was the right thing to do.
So I think it will be sad if it is allowed to creep back in to the Lounge. Not because I am not interested in politics, in fact I am very interest.
But because it seems very few people in here can discuss this amicably. The nastiness and name calling I see when I do look in the politics threads is, quite frankly, pathetic.
I'm also fed up of bigoted, sexist, racist posters who pretend to understand our country, political system and how democracy operates here, yet clearly do not.
"
This  |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"The EU is a political union. One of its core principles is ever closer union. It has a Parliament (one in Brussels and one in Strasbourg, and the EU wastes billions over the years with the travelling circus from one Parliament to the other). The EU has a flag, the EU has an anthem and now it has designs on an EU army (have a look at the EU five Presidents report for where the EU is heading). The EU have their own law courts and the EU has its own monetary currency, the failed and doomed Euro. Many people wish it had stayed a simple trading body but it has morphed into the unwieldy over bureaucratic monstrosity we see today that interferes in other countries affairs in many areas besides trade and this is why there is growing opposition towards it all over the European continent.
Awww Centaur you're letting your side down. That sounded almost sensible and calm The EU is not a political union as if it was you'd vote for a European President and a European government who'd rule over us. Instead, it's just an international body like the UN that represents the interests of its member states on the global stage. Like people group together to get a better deal by buying in bulk the EU brings such benefits to all its members. You can tell its not a political union because all its members are proudly democratic, secular, and share our values. None of them would surrender such things to a shadowy despotic government in hiding... that's just a wild eyed Trump-like conspiracy theory. But they would and have joined clubs that represent their interests like the UN.
Yes the EU has ambitions of being a United States of Europe. But the UK has been part of blocking that. Perhaps now we're out it'll become that powerful United States of Europe. But the organisation we're leaving isn't that in the slightest. That's the con trick the brexiteers have pulled over the nation's eyes. It was just a rather good club that represented our interests, allowed us to work closely and easily with our neighbours on issues like security and the environment that really demand such cooperation, and did its best to try and make sure wealth was more fairly spread by subsidising farmers, artists, scientists, etc who aren't favoured by a rabid money focused society. But unfortunately it just didn't have the power to prevent the Tories from decimating our poor ex-industrial rural communities with their super harsh austerity policies which kept their rich friends all cosy whilst they stole from those with no power. Then they had the genius to manipulate those very people to point their finger at the EU instead of them. This was particularly extraordinary in Wales, where the rural poor elected to leave the EU despite it being far more generous to them than their own government. So we shot ourselves in the foot. Oh well. We may never be Great again but at least we'll carry on being Britain
The EU is not a rather good club it is a rather shit club and the fact the EU President is not elected highlights just how undemocratic this shit club called the EU is. "
There is no such thing as the 'EU President'. There are a number of bodies that each have a President. The President of the European Council, currently Donald Tusk, does not have executive powers like a country's president does. That are more a figurehead. And until the Lisbon treaty the president was a role taken by each country in turn.
The MEPs themselves are elected. Eg we chose to have Nigel Farage as one of our representatives. Fuck knows why.
-Matt |
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"The EU is a political union. One of its core principles is ever closer union. It has a Parliament (one in Brussels and one in Strasbourg, and the EU wastes billions over the years with the travelling circus from one Parliament to the other). The EU has a flag, the EU has an anthem and now it has designs on an EU army (have a look at the EU five Presidents report for where the EU is heading). The EU have their own law courts and the EU has its own monetary currency, the failed and doomed Euro. Many people wish it had stayed a simple trading body but it has morphed into the unwieldy over bureaucratic monstrosity we see today that interferes in other countries affairs in many areas besides trade and this is why there is growing opposition towards it all over the European continent.
Awww Centaur you're letting your side down. That sounded almost sensible and calm The EU is not a political union as if it was you'd vote for a European President and a European government who'd rule over us. Instead, it's just an international body like the UN that represents the interests of its member states on the global stage. Like people group together to get a better deal by buying in bulk the EU brings such benefits to all its members. You can tell its not a political union because all its members are proudly democratic, secular, and share our values. None of them would surrender such things to a shadowy despotic government in hiding... that's just a wild eyed Trump-like conspiracy theory. But they would and have joined clubs that represent their interests like the UN.
Yes the EU has ambitions of being a United States of Europe. But the UK has been part of blocking that. Perhaps now we're out it'll become that powerful United States of Europe. But the organisation we're leaving isn't that in the slightest. That's the con trick the brexiteers have pulled over the nation's eyes. It was just a rather good club that represented our interests, allowed us to work closely and easily with our neighbours on issues like security and the environment that really demand such cooperation, and did its best to try and make sure wealth was more fairly spread by subsidising farmers, artists, scientists, etc who aren't favoured by a rabid money focused society. But unfortunately it just didn't have the power to prevent the Tories from decimating our poor ex-industrial rural communities with their super harsh austerity policies which kept their rich friends all cosy whilst they stole from those with no power. Then they had the genius to manipulate those very people to point their finger at the EU instead of them. This was particularly extraordinary in Wales, where the rural poor elected to leave the EU despite it being far more generous to them than their own government. So we shot ourselves in the foot. Oh well. We may never be Great again but at least we'll carry on being Britain
The EU is not a rather good club it is a rather shit club and the fact the EU President is not elected highlights just how undemocratic this shit club called the EU is.
There is no such thing as the 'EU President'. There are a number of bodies that each have a President. The President of the European Council, currently Donald Tusk, does not have executive powers like a country's president does. That are more a figurehead. And until the Lisbon treaty the president was a role taken by each country in turn.
The MEPs themselves are elected. Eg we chose to have Nigel Farage as one of our representatives. Fuck knows why.
-Matt"
Pedantic much? The Presidents then, it's no wonder Jean Claude Juncker is not elected, who the fuck would vote for him as an EU President? MEP's are elected but have very little power in the EU, they are nothing more than reviewers of rules, regulations and legislation drawn up and proposed by the unelected EU Commission. MEP's could be compared to being like our House of Lords here in the UK who review legislation and propose ammendments to it, while the unelected commission are the ones with the real power like our house of commons who make the rules and have the final say. Compared to our system of democracy the EU is the complete opposite and does it arse backwards. Then you have the EU's well documented record of having 2nd referendums on things if they don't like the first answer that was given. Let's just keep having referendums until the people give us the answer we want seems to be the EU's warped view of democracy. |
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"The EU is a political union. One of its core principles is ever closer union. It has a Parliament (one in Brussels and one in Strasbourg, and the EU wastes billions over the years with the travelling circus from one Parliament to the other). The EU has a flag, the EU has an anthem and now it has designs on an EU army (have a look at the EU five Presidents report for where the EU is heading). The EU have their own law courts and the EU has its own monetary currency, the failed and doomed Euro. Many people wish it had stayed a simple trading body but it has morphed into the unwieldy over bureaucratic monstrosity we see today that interferes in other countries affairs in many areas besides trade and this is why there is growing opposition towards it all over the European continent.
Awww Centaur you're letting your side down. That sounded almost sensible and calm The EU is not a political union as if it was you'd vote for a European President and a European government who'd rule over us. Instead, it's just an international body like the UN that represents the interests of its member states on the global stage. Like people group together to get a better deal by buying in bulk the EU brings such benefits to all its members. You can tell its not a political union because all its members are proudly democratic, secular, and share our values. None of them would surrender such things to a shadowy despotic government in hiding... that's just a wild eyed Trump-like conspiracy theory. But they would and have joined clubs that represent their interests like the UN.
Yes the EU has ambitions of being a United States of Europe. But the UK has been part of blocking that. Perhaps now we're out it'll become that powerful United States of Europe. But the organisation we're leaving isn't that in the slightest. That's the con trick the brexiteers have pulled over the nation's eyes. It was just a rather good club that represented our interests, allowed us to work closely and easily with our neighbours on issues like security and the environment that really demand such cooperation, and did its best to try and make sure wealth was more fairly spread by subsidising farmers, artists, scientists, etc who aren't favoured by a rabid money focused society. But unfortunately it just didn't have the power to prevent the Tories from decimating our poor ex-industrial rural communities with their super harsh austerity policies which kept their rich friends all cosy whilst they stole from those with no power. Then they had the genius to manipulate those very people to point their finger at the EU instead of them. This was particularly extraordinary in Wales, where the rural poor elected to leave the EU despite it being far more generous to them than their own government. So we shot ourselves in the foot. Oh well. We may never be Great again but at least we'll carry on being Britain
The EU is not a rather good club it is a rather shit club and the fact the EU President is not elected highlights just how undemocratic this shit club called the EU is.
There is no such thing as the 'EU President'. There are a number of bodies that each have a President. The President of the European Council, currently Donald Tusk, does not have executive powers like a country's president does. That are more a figurehead. And until the Lisbon treaty the president was a role taken by each country in turn.
The MEPs themselves are elected. Eg we chose to have Nigel Farage as one of our representatives. Fuck knows why.
-Matt
Pedantic much? The Presidents then, it's no wonder Jean Claude Juncker is not elected, who the fuck would vote for him as an EU President? MEP's are elected but have very little power in the EU, they are nothing more than reviewers of rules, regulations and legislation drawn up and proposed by the unelected EU Commission. MEP's could be compared to being like our House of Lords here in the UK who review legislation and propose ammendments to it, while the unelected commission are the ones with the real power like our house of commons who make the rules and have the final say. Compared to our system of democracy the EU is the complete opposite and does it arse backwards. Then you have the EU's well documented record of having 2nd referendums on things if they don't like the first answer that was given. Let's just keep having referendums until the people give us the answer we want seems to be the EU's warped view of democracy. "
Did the EU hold those referendums or was it the respective member nations? |
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"The EU is a political union. One of its core principles is ever closer union. It has a Parliament (one in Brussels and one in Strasbourg, and the EU wastes billions over the years with the travelling circus from one Parliament to the other). The EU has a flag, the EU has an anthem and now it has designs on an EU army (have a look at the EU five Presidents report for where the EU is heading). The EU have their own law courts and the EU has its own monetary currency, the failed and doomed Euro. Many people wish it had stayed a simple trading body but it has morphed into the unwieldy over bureaucratic monstrosity we see today that interferes in other countries affairs in many areas besides trade and this is why there is growing opposition towards it all over the European continent.
Awww Centaur you're letting your side down. That sounded almost sensible and calm The EU is not a political union as if it was you'd vote for a European President and a European government who'd rule over us. Instead, it's just an international body like the UN that represents the interests of its member states on the global stage. Like people group together to get a better deal by buying in bulk the EU brings such benefits to all its members. You can tell its not a political union because all its members are proudly democratic, secular, and share our values. None of them would surrender such things to a shadowy despotic government in hiding... that's just a wild eyed Trump-like conspiracy theory. But they would and have joined clubs that represent their interests like the UN.
Yes the EU has ambitions of being a United States of Europe. But the UK has been part of blocking that. Perhaps now we're out it'll become that powerful United States of Europe. But the organisation we're leaving isn't that in the slightest. That's the con trick the brexiteers have pulled over the nation's eyes. It was just a rather good club that represented our interests, allowed us to work closely and easily with our neighbours on issues like security and the environment that really demand such cooperation, and did its best to try and make sure wealth was more fairly spread by subsidising farmers, artists, scientists, etc who aren't favoured by a rabid money focused society. But unfortunately it just didn't have the power to prevent the Tories from decimating our poor ex-industrial rural communities with their super harsh austerity policies which kept their rich friends all cosy whilst they stole from those with no power. Then they had the genius to manipulate those very people to point their finger at the EU instead of them. This was particularly extraordinary in Wales, where the rural poor elected to leave the EU despite it being far more generous to them than their own government. So we shot ourselves in the foot. Oh well. We may never be Great again but at least we'll carry on being Britain "
This was an excellent post. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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2 votes on something is more democratic than 1, and 3 is more democratic than 2. Things don't get less democratic the more you ask people about them. That's the kind of logic that backs a dictator like Mugabe to stay in power for his whole life. "The people have spoken. They voted for me back in 1959. Why ask them again?" |
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"2 votes on something is more democratic than 1, and 3 is more democratic than 2. Things don't get less democratic the more you ask people about them. That's the kind of logic that backs a dictator like Mugabe to stay in power for his whole life. "The people have spoken. They voted for me back in 1959. Why ask them again?" "
Also very well said. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"The EU is a political union. One of its core principles is ever closer union. It has a Parliament (one in Brussels and one in Strasbourg, and the EU wastes billions over the years with the travelling circus from one Parliament to the other). The EU has a flag, the EU has an anthem and now it has designs on an EU army (have a look at the EU five Presidents report for where the EU is heading). The EU have their own law courts and the EU has its own monetary currency, the failed and doomed Euro. Many people wish it had stayed a simple trading body but it has morphed into the unwieldy over bureaucratic monstrosity we see today that interferes in other countries affairs in many areas besides trade and this is why there is growing opposition towards it all over the European continent.
Awww Centaur you're letting your side down. That sounded almost sensible and calm The EU is not a political union as if it was you'd vote for a European President and a European government who'd rule over us. Instead, it's just an international body like the UN that represents the interests of its member states on the global stage. Like people group together to get a better deal by buying in bulk the EU brings such benefits to all its members. You can tell its not a political union because all its members are proudly democratic, secular, and share our values. None of them would surrender such things to a shadowy despotic government in hiding... that's just a wild eyed Trump-like conspiracy theory. But they would and have joined clubs that represent their interests like the UN.
Yes the EU has ambitions of being a United States of Europe. But the UK has been part of blocking that. Perhaps now we're out it'll become that powerful United States of Europe. But the organisation we're leaving isn't that in the slightest. That's the con trick the brexiteers have pulled over the nation's eyes. It was just a rather good club that represented our interests, allowed us to work closely and easily with our neighbours on issues like security and the environment that really demand such cooperation, and did its best to try and make sure wealth was more fairly spread by subsidising farmers, artists, scientists, etc who aren't favoured by a rabid money focused society. But unfortunately it just didn't have the power to prevent the Tories from decimating our poor ex-industrial rural communities with their super harsh austerity policies which kept their rich friends all cosy whilst they stole from those with no power. Then they had the genius to manipulate those very people to point their finger at the EU instead of them. This was particularly extraordinary in Wales, where the rural poor elected to leave the EU despite it being far more generous to them than their own government. So we shot ourselves in the foot. Oh well. We may never be Great again but at least we'll carry on being Britain
The EU is not a rather good club it is a rather shit club and the fact the EU President is not elected highlights just how undemocratic this shit club called the EU is.
There is no such thing as the 'EU President'. There are a number of bodies that each have a President. The President of the European Council, currently Donald Tusk, does not have executive powers like a country's president does. That are more a figurehead. And until the Lisbon treaty the president was a role taken by each country in turn.
The MEPs themselves are elected. Eg we chose to have Nigel Farage as one of our representatives. Fuck knows why.
-Matt
Pedantic much? The Presidents then, it's no wonder Jean Claude Juncker is not elected, who the fuck would vote for him as an EU President? MEP's are elected but have very little power in the EU, they are nothing more than reviewers of rules, regulations and legislation drawn up and proposed by the unelected EU Commission. MEP's could be compared to being like our House of Lords here in the UK who review legislation and propose ammendments to it, while the unelected commission are the ones with the real power like our house of commons who make the rules and have the final say. Compared to our system of democracy the EU is the complete opposite and does it arse backwards. Then you have the EU's well documented record of having 2nd referendums on things if they don't like the first answer that was given. Let's just keep having referendums until the people give us the answer we want seems to be the EU's warped view of democracy. "
No, it is it pedantic. You say that the EU is not democratic due to the president not being elected, yet haven't the foggiest what you are taking about.
The MEPs are not 'nothing but reviewers' THEY VOTE ON THE FUCKING THINGS. And guess what. Let's state it AGAIN, the UK was only on the losing side of 2% of the votes. Ie the MEPs that represent the UK. That WE voted into position agreed with 98% of the outcomes of the things voted on. So if you take issue with that, then don't vote idiots as MEPs. Simple.
-Matt |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Junker is the president of the European Commission in the same way as Gianni Infantino is the president of FIFA. And the European Parliament is a parliament in a similar way to how the Parliament of the World's Religions is a parliament |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The president rules over the organisation, not us. And the parliament is just a body where members can create a dialogue to work together on things that benefit all of them |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Junker is the president of the European Commission in the same way as Gianni Infantino is the president of FIFA. And the European Parliament is a parliament in a similar way to how the Parliament of the World's Religions is a parliament "
What is FIFA ?
I didn't vote for them |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The president rules over the organisation, not us. And the parliament is just a body where members can create a dialogue to work together on things that benefit all of them "
Does anyone else find it supremely ironic this is all coming form soneone(s)
Called
"Free spirit lovers"
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"2 votes on something is more democratic than 1, and 3 is more democratic than 2. Things don't get less democratic the more you ask people about them. That's the kind of logic that backs a dictator like Mugabe to stay in power for his whole life. "The people have spoken. They voted for me back in 1959. Why ask them again?"
Also very well said."
But complete rubbish. The more you ask the same question the fewer the people who will vote. So what happens when you get the same answer 2/3 times, do you stop then or just keep voting until the result changes? And if it does what do you do then? Vote again? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The president rules over the organisation, not us. And the parliament is just a body where members can create a dialogue to work together on things that benefit all of them
Does anyone else find it supremely ironic this is all coming form soneone(s)
Called
"Free spirit lovers""
Says the man with the number of the beast in his username. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The president rules over the organisation, not us. And the parliament is just a body where members can create a dialogue to work together on things that benefit all of them
Does anyone else find it supremely ironic this is all coming form soneone(s)
Called
"Free spirit lovers"
Says the man with the number of the beast in his username. "
Yes that's to put off born again types... I'm only a bit of a beast... maybe we should meet up and work this out in person, I am sure I could persuade you to see things my way...  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"2 votes on something is more democratic than 1, and 3 is more democratic than 2." "
Er, you are not factually correct on that one. You seriously need to study some statistics, I used to teach it. Look up the Delphi process and also "group think" and "risky shift" and while you are at it "cognitive dissonance"
Also what about those poor people scared into voting stay by Cameron and co lies that are now so obviously untrue ? I.e. Knowing the sky did *not fall* Henny Penny, don't you think some in voters (you excepted of course) will have changed their mind (as per delphi)
and the vote would be even more strongly in devour of leave?
You really should run for public office, think of the fabber votes you would get ! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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2 votes on something is more democratic than 1, and 3 is more democratic than 2.
That is not factually incorrect. Democracy has nothing to do with statistics. Democracy is mob rule. Statistics is the analysis of patterns in data. Getting the mob's feedback on a regular basis is clearly more democratic, regardless of any fatigue that takes place.
If 2 votes wasn't more democratic than 1 why did we have a second referendum on Europe after the first one we had in the 1970s where the majority of us voted to go into it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"2 votes on something is more democratic than 1, and 3 is more democratic than 2.
That is not factually incorrect. Democracy has nothing to do with statistics. Democracy is mob rule. Statistics is the analysis of patterns in data. Getting the mob's feedback on a regular basis is clearly more democratic, regardless of any fatigue that takes place.
If 2 votes wasn't more democratic than 1 why did we have a second referendum on Europe after the first one we had in the 1970s where the majority of us voted to go into it? "
We didn't vote to come out of what we went into. The EU didn't exist until 1993. Jeez it gets worse |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why would democracy win by going back to the EU?Because with brexit we will see less of it.
I voted to stay, but i dunno if I agree with this.
Would we see more democracy at the whim of a governing body where the leaders aren't elected? That sounds like a bad start to me.
The EU is a trading body not a federal political organisation. As such it has no parliament for people to elect and the UK has been avid in advocating it stay this way. Without it we'll have our own trading bodies, dealing with issues of trade that the EU used to deal with, and none of them will be electable either. That's the truth behind the whole "it's unelectable" con trick the brexiteers pulled over the nation's eyes. "
"The EU isn't a federal political organisation" ? "It has no parliament"?
Isn't that the BIG problem with the EU....?
If it was just a trading group (the "common market" we joined in 1973!) then it would be fine.
The problem is that it IS a largely unelected political organisation....federal...? To some extent yes! (But with a lack of local influence in so many cases). It DOES have a parliament....elected....but with very limited powers.
It is a long, long, way from the trading organisation we joined in 1973, and voted to remain in in 1975. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"2 votes on something is more democratic than 1, and 3 is more democratic than 2. Things don't get less democratic the more you ask people about them. That's the kind of logic that backs a dictator like Mugabe to stay in power for his whole life. "The people have spoken. They voted for me back in 1959. Why ask them again?"
Also very well said.
But complete rubbish. The more you ask the same question the fewer the people who will vote. So what happens when you get the same answer 2/3 times, do you stop then or just keep voting until the result changes? And if it does what do you do then? Vote again?"
That's what the EU do..... like when Netherlands voted no to the Euro...."wrong answer guys please vote again" Ireland rejected treaty change....load of threats and "wrong answer, please vote again"
Democracy does not mean repeating votes again and again at short intervals until the idiots agree with what the politicos have decided is the right answer. |
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"2 votes on something is more democratic than 1, and 3 is more democratic than 2. Things don't get less democratic the more you ask people about them. That's the kind of logic that backs a dictator like Mugabe to stay in power for his whole life. "The people have spoken. They voted for me back in 1959. Why ask them again?"
Also very well said.
But complete rubbish. The more you ask the same question the fewer the people who will vote. So what happens when you get the same answer 2/3 times, do you stop then or just keep voting until the result changes? And if it does what do you do then? Vote again?
That's what the EU do..... like when Netherlands voted no to the Euro...."wrong answer guys please vote again" Ireland rejected treaty change....load of threats and "wrong answer, please vote again"
Democracy does not mean repeating votes again and again at short intervals until the idiots agree with what the politicos have decided is the right answer."
Again, was it the EU who held those referendums or the respective member nations? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"2 votes on something is more democratic than 1, and 3 is more democratic than 2. Things don't get less democratic the more you ask people about them. That's the kind of logic that backs a dictator like Mugabe to stay in power for his whole life. "The people have spoken. They voted for me back in 1959. Why ask them again?"
Also very well said.
But complete rubbish. The more you ask the same question the fewer the people who will vote. So what happens when you get the same answer 2/3 times, do you stop then or just keep voting until the result changes? And if it does what do you do then? Vote again?
That's what the EU do..... like when Netherlands voted no to the Euro...."wrong answer guys please vote again" Ireland rejected treaty change....load of threats and "wrong answer, please vote again"
Democracy does not mean repeating votes again and again at short intervals until the idiots agree with what the politicos have decided is the right answer.
Again, was it the EU who held those referendums or the respective member nations?"
It was the respective member nations. But were the governments of those nations pro or anti EU? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"2 votes on something is more democratic than 1, and 3 is more democratic than 2. Things don't get less democratic the more you ask people about them. That's the kind of logic that backs a dictator like Mugabe to stay in power for his whole life. "The people have spoken. They voted for me back in 1959. Why ask them again?"
Also very well said.
But complete rubbish. The more you ask the same question the fewer the people who will vote. So what happens when you get the same answer 2/3 times, do you stop then or just keep voting until the result changes? And if it does what do you do then? Vote again?
That's what the EU do..... like when Netherlands voted no to the Euro...."wrong answer guys please vote again" Ireland rejected treaty change....load of threats and "wrong answer, please vote again"
Democracy does not mean repeating votes again and again at short intervals until the idiots agree with what the politicos have decided is the right answer.
Again, was it the EU who held those referendums or the respective member nations?
It was the respective member nations. But were the governments of those nations pro or anti EU?"
They were pro EU and (in all but name) "instructed" to re-vote in order to "get it right". That's the EU version of democracy. |
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"2 votes on something is more democratic than 1, and 3 is more democratic than 2. Things don't get less democratic the more you ask people about them. That's the kind of logic that backs a dictator like Mugabe to stay in power for his whole life. "The people have spoken. They voted for me back in 1959. Why ask them again?"
Also very well said.
But complete rubbish. The more you ask the same question the fewer the people who will vote. So what happens when you get the same answer 2/3 times, do you stop then or just keep voting until the result changes? And if it does what do you do then? Vote again?
That's what the EU do..... like when Netherlands voted no to the Euro...."wrong answer guys please vote again" Ireland rejected treaty change....load of threats and "wrong answer, please vote again"
Democracy does not mean repeating votes again and again at short intervals until the idiots agree with what the politicos have decided is the right answer.
Again, was it the EU who held those referendums or the respective member nations?
It was the respective member nations. But were the governments of those nations pro or anti EU?
They were pro EU and (in all but name) "instructed" to re-vote in order to "get it right". That's the EU version of democracy."
Instructed. Right. Gotcha. Sigh. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"2 votes on something is more democratic than 1, and 3 is more democratic than 2. Things don't get less democratic the more you ask people about them. That's the kind of logic that backs a dictator like Mugabe to stay in power for his whole life. "The people have spoken. They voted for me back in 1959. Why ask them again?"
Also very well said.
But complete rubbish. The more you ask the same question the fewer the people who will vote. So what happens when you get the same answer 2/3 times, do you stop then or just keep voting until the result changes? And if it does what do you do then? Vote again?
That's what the EU do..... like when Netherlands voted no to the Euro...."wrong answer guys please vote again" Ireland rejected treaty change....load of threats and "wrong answer, please vote again"
Democracy does not mean repeating votes again and again at short intervals until the idiots agree with what the politicos have decided is the right answer.
Again, was it the EU who held those referendums or the respective member nations?
It was the respective member nations. But were the governments of those nations pro or anti EU?
They were pro EU and (in all but name) "instructed" to re-vote in order to "get it right". That's the EU version of democracy.
Instructed. Right. Gotcha. Sigh."
Sigh. What would you call it? Advised? |
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