FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Is it time we forgave the Lib Dems?
Is it time we forgave the Lib Dems?
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
So recent news, it has been suggested that if a snap election was called, the Liberal Democrats will regain all its seats in the south and gain more in the north from disaffected Labour Supporters. Do you think the Lib Dems are resurging, and would you ever vote Lib Dem? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"So recent news, it has been suggested that if a snap election was called, the Liberal Democrats will regain all its seats in the south and gain more in the north from disaffected Labour Supporters. Do you think the Lib Dems are resurging, and would you ever vote Lib Dem?"
Yes, and yes.
They need to attract some more heavyweight politicians but if they play their cards right they could do very well.
They are the only openly pro-European party and 48% of those who voted, voted remain and they should be forgiven especially as this Conservative Govt are also unlikely to stick by their manifesto pledge to keep the UK in the EU and in the single market. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
we arent going to have a snap election as the government would need to lose a vote of confidence and really cant see the labour party going for one in the state they are in, or is that another thing the lib dems want to go against, after all they were jointly in power when fixed terms were agreed |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"By the time that the next GE comes around, we will be out of the EU.
Will the Liberals fight a GE on a platform of taking us back into the EU? "
Not necessarily. As someone said, there will need to be a vote of no confidence in the govt. There will be a potentially momentous vote in two years time on the brexit deal. That is likely to be such a fucking disaster that it will not get passed in parliament. That could be a defacto vote of no confidence.
What might then happen is a coalition of pro Europe Tory, labour, lib dems and possibly snp forming for the rest of the term, or if that isn't possible then a new party emerge consisting of those on the Right of the Labour Party and the left of the conservatives, fighting on a pro remain platform. I think it would piss such a general election by then as there will be no deal that won't be a dozen times worse than what we have now.
Even the govt ministers are starting to privately admit it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
No!
We are in the mess we are in now because the lib dems chose to enable the tories to do what tories do for 5 years. Therefore regardless of what they may say they must be held 100% responsible for tory austerity, brexit, the state of the NHS and country today. Anyone who is pro austerity for the majority to pay for tax breaks for the rich and super tax breaks for the super rich, the hiving off of the NHS services for private companies to profiteer from and brexit will obviously keep supporting the tories. Anyone who is opposed to the above who decide to support the people who caused all this pain will get exactly what they deserve...
More of the same! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'd never Vote for them !
But they were Sincere and they were Stitched up !
They could and should replace Labour ! "
No they should replaced by the greens. .  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
It is funny how when the establishment fuck the economy they blame the working class and force them into poverty so the rich can continue without incurring loss. So the working class unite behind the most right wing politicians who are the the very people who are making them poor. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It is funny how when the establishment fuck the economy they blame the working class and force them into poverty so the rich can continue without incurring loss. So the working class unite behind the most right wing politicians who are the the very people who are making them poor."
. Being serious,
What do you think the state exists for if not to protect wealth and possessions?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So recent news, it has been suggested that if a snap election was called, the Liberal Democrats will regain all its seats in the south and gain more in the north from disaffected Labour Supporters. Do you think the Lib Dems are resurging, and would you ever vote Lib Dem?
Yes, and yes.
They need to attract some more heavyweight politicians but if they play their cards right they could do very well.
They are the only openly pro-European party and 48% of those who voted, voted remain and they should be forgiven especially as this Conservative Govt are also unlikely to stick by their manifesto pledge to keep the UK in the EU and in the single market."
Yes to both questions. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Being serious,
What do you think the state exists for if not to protect wealth and possessions"
I fully understand what you are saying, but I would suggest you are equating state with dictatorship (any kind). In theory in a democracy protecting the state is achieved by protecting the rights and wealth of the majority. My point is that the worse things get in a democracy the more ordinary people either turn away from any involvement in the decision making process or to the very people who impoverish them.
I guess I think we (the ordinary population) are the battered wife married to an extremely violent and dishonest partner (the tories). They beat us up and they steal from us for years and eventually we make them move out, only to believe them when they say they have changed and let them back in for them to do it all over again!
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"No!
We are in the mess we are in now because the lib dems chose to enable the tories to do what tories do for 5 years. Therefore regardless of what they may say they must be held 100% responsible for tory austerity, brexit, the state of the NHS and country today. Anyone who is pro austerity for the majority to pay for tax breaks for the rich and super tax breaks for the super rich, the hiving off of the NHS services for private companies to profiteer from and brexit will obviously keep supporting the tories. Anyone who is opposed to the above who decide to support the people who caused all this pain will get exactly what they deserve...
More of the same!"
not quite true.....
because if we went play to the result what you would have ended up with would have been a minority tory govt with the dup/uup backing them up.... which would have seen the tories lurch more to the right
did the lib dems get what they wanted out of coalition... no
where they are "break/lever" to stop the more extreme tory policies... yep!
i think that farron is far enough away in policy from clegg for disaffected cons and lab to vote for them....
if placed right... they can be the party of the centre/centre left now that corbyn has vacated that ground...... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Being serious,
What do you think the state exists for if not to protect wealth and possessions
I fully understand what you are saying, but I would suggest you are equating state with dictatorship (any kind). In theory in a democracy protecting the state is achieved by protecting the rights and wealth of the majority. My point is that the worse things get in a democracy the more ordinary people either turn away from any involvement in the decision making process or to the very people who impoverish them.
I guess I think we (the ordinary population) are the battered wife married to an extremely violent and dishonest partner (the tories). They beat us up and they steal from us for years and eventually we make them move out, only to believe them when they say they have changed and let them back in for them to do it all over again!
"
Labour are just as bad. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Being serious,
What do you think the state exists for if not to protect wealth and possessions
I fully understand what you are saying, but I would suggest you are equating state with dictatorship (any kind). In theory in a democracy protecting the state is achieved by protecting the rights and wealth of the majority. My point is that the worse things get in a democracy the more ordinary people either turn away from any involvement in the decision making process or to the very people who impoverish them.
I guess I think we (the ordinary population) are the battered wife married to an extremely violent and dishonest partner (the tories). They beat us up and they steal from us for years and eventually we make them move out, only to believe them when they say they have changed and let them back in for them to do it all over again!
"
.
No Im certainly not equating the state with dictatorship?s, all states exist for one sole reason, to protect wealth and possessions of its citizens.
In fact only under dictatorship?s is this philosophy ever reversed, not in all cases obviously but theres no democracy anywhere thats ever challenged that philosophy, you might get the odd one that looks or gives the perception that they are but they really arent, even the highly religious ones like Saudi dont reverse that philosophy.
The rich run this country just like the rich in Germany run Germany or Australia, new Zealand, Canada, Switzerland... There all run by the rich for the rich thats the job of the state and its sole purpose and once upon a time the rich used to pay for the state for that very purpose but being rich there also quite smart and thought, fuck it, we can get the poor to pay for state instead of us and still retain that very privilege we once paid for!.
And being human suckers we all feel for it thinking "when" i get rich I'd like the state to protect my wealth too?.
How much do you think Pablo Escobar you used to pay to protect his illegal gotten gains?.
Hundreds of millions of dollars!! The guy would have been financially better off paying 30% tax.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"No and no  no they are traitors fallon should be shot"
Someone is currently under arrest in Kent for posting something just like that on social media.
It really is quite disturbing that anyone in this country could suggest something even remotely like that about a Politician. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"No and no no they are traitors fallon should be shot
Someone is currently under arrest in Kent for posting something just like that on social media.
It really is quite disturbing that anyone in this country could suggest something even remotely like that about a Politician."
Little bit insensitive isnt it considering that chap who shot jo cox dead apparently viewed her as a national traitor.
Maybe the idealogues should stop getting their panties in a twist when someone suggests their ideaology wont work as promised. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"we arent going to have a snap election as the government would need to lose a vote of confidence and really cant see the labour party going for one in the state they are in, or is that another thing the lib dems want to go against, after all they were jointly in power when fixed terms were agreed "
Guess what it looks like a snap election is on the cards. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't forgive a political party as it's not an individual. Rather pick the best non Tory candidate and hope for the best  "
#Anyone but the conservatives.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"we arent going to have a snap election as the government would need to lose a vote of confidence and really cant see the labour party going for one in the state they are in, or is that another thing the lib dems want to go against, after all they were jointly in power when fixed terms were agreed "
Well that went well, just binned my crystal ball  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"we arent going to have a snap election as the government would need to lose a vote of confidence and really cant see the labour party going for one in the state they are in, or is that another thing the lib dems want to go against, after all they were jointly in power when fixed terms were agreed
Well that went well, just binned my crystal ball "
Hey its okay, we were promised one thing, not your fault, but if the surge in lib dem voting continues, it will eat at the working majority the tories will have. It could lead us back into coalition territory again. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"we arent going to have a snap election as the government would need to lose a vote of confidence and really cant see the labour party going for one in the state they are in, or is that another thing the lib dems want to go against, after all they were jointly in power when fixed terms were agreed
Well that went well, just binned my crystal ball
Hey its okay, we were promised one thing, not your fault, but if the surge in lib dem voting continues, it will eat at the working majority the tories will have. It could lead us back into coalition territory again."
this... if you say the lib dems are going to take back some of the seats from the tories...for example in the south west, in outer suburban london and some of the "univeristy student seats" (cheltenham, oxford, cambridge, bristol, manchester ects)
it could end up who ends up squeezing labour for seats..... most of them will be conservatives but there are going to be some prominent labour "leavers" sitting in big level remain seats who could be in big trouble from the lib dems (vauxhall mp kate hoey who i dispise!) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"we arent going to have a snap election as the government would need to lose a vote of confidence and really cant see the labour party going for one in the state they are in, or is that another thing the lib dems want to go against, after all they were jointly in power when fixed terms were agreed "
. You where saying....
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"we arent going to have a snap election as the government would need to lose a vote of confidence and really cant see the labour party going for one in the state they are in, or is that another thing the lib dems want to go against, after all they were jointly in power when fixed terms were agreed
Well that went well, just binned my crystal ball
Hey its okay, we were promised one thing, not your fault, but if the surge in lib dem voting continues, it will eat at the working majority the tories will have. It could lead us back into coalition territory again.
this... if you say the lib dems are going to take back some of the seats from the tories...for example in the south west, in outer suburban london and some of the "univeristy student seats" (cheltenham, oxford, cambridge, bristol, manchester ects)
it could end up who ends up squeezing labour for seats..... most of them will be conservatives but there are going to be some prominent labour "leavers" sitting in big level remain seats who could be in big trouble from the lib dems (vauxhall mp kate hoey who i dispise!) "
I think that may well happen, there are many constituencies in the south who voted remain, so it could be to frustrate brexit negotiations most people will vote lib dem to stop hard brexit from happening. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Libdem is the new labour  "
I wouldnt say that. I dont believe the libdems have union support? Kind of key if you wish to replace labour in power.
However thd libdems would probably go up in voter confidence if they said they are open to a labor lib dem coilition |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Not while that idiot farron whatever is bloody called, lets hold another referendum until we get what we want, is in charge.
I'm sticking with UKIP for this one, keep the pressure on. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Not while that idiot farron whatever is bloody called, lets hold another referendum until we get what we want, is in charge.
I'm sticking with UKIP for this one, keep the pressure on."
actually.... that is NOT the lib dem position....
the Lib dem position is that we should get a vote on the final deal....
but ironic because 27 other countries will have to vote on the deal... but the country most effected but it at the moment wont....
this is what i don't get.... why are leavers so concerned about a possible vote on a final deal.... we know you want out... but if in the final deal it required everyone who voted "leave" to jump off a cliff, i am sure you'd want a vote on the detail  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
this is what i don't get.... why are leavers so concerned about a possible vote on a final deal.... we know you want out... but if in the final deal it required everyone who voted "leave" to jump off a cliff, i am sure you'd want a vote on the detail "
I may lobby for this, quite a good idea Fabio |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Not while that idiot farron whatever is bloody called, lets hold another referendum until we get what we want, is in charge.
I'm sticking with UKIP for this one, keep the pressure on."
Please do. We need as much UKIP support as possible in order to dilute the Conservative vote. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Not while that idiot farron whatever is bloody called, lets hold another referendum until we get what we want, is in charge.
I'm sticking with UKIP for this one, keep the pressure on.
actually.... that is NOT the lib dem position....
the Lib dem position is that we should get a vote on the final deal....
but ironic because 27 other countries will have to vote on the deal... but the country most effected but it at the moment wont....
this is what i don't get.... why are leavers so concerned about a possible vote on a final deal.... we know you want out... but if in the final deal it required everyone who voted "leave" to jump off a cliff, i am sure you'd want a vote on the detail "
So are you saying that 27 other countries will be holding referendums on the deal? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Not while that idiot farron whatever is bloody called, lets hold another referendum until we get what we want, is in charge.
I'm sticking with UKIP for this one, keep the pressure on.
actually.... that is NOT the lib dem position....
the Lib dem position is that we should get a vote on the final deal....
but ironic because 27 other countries will have to vote on the deal... but the country most effected but it at the moment wont....
this is what i don't get.... why are leavers so concerned about a possible vote on a final deal.... we know you want out... but if in the final deal it required everyone who voted "leave" to jump off a cliff, i am sure you'd want a vote on the detail
So are you saying that 27 other countries will be holding referendums on the deal?"
Don't think he meant that no |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Not while that idiot farron whatever is bloody called, lets hold another referendum until we get what we want, is in charge.
I'm sticking with UKIP for this one, keep the pressure on.
actually.... that is NOT the lib dem position....
the Lib dem position is that we should get a vote on the final deal....
but ironic because 27 other countries will have to vote on the deal... but the country most effected but it at the moment wont....
this is what i don't get.... why are leavers so concerned about a possible vote on a final deal.... we know you want out... but if in the final deal it required everyone who voted "leave" to jump off a cliff, i am sure you'd want a vote on the detail
So are you saying that 27 other countries will be holding referendums on the deal?
Don't think he meant that no"
Bit of a moot point then |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
So are you saying that 27 other countries will be holding referendums on the deal?"
the other 27 countries will each have the ratifiy the final deal... whether that is a vote in their parliaments... or in some countries a vote of their people....
the government originally said they would... and now are saying they wont...
don't you think its weird that everyone else gets a vote AFTER they know what the deal looks like? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
So are you saying that 27 other countries will be holding referendums on the deal?
the other 27 countries will each have the ratifiy the final deal... whether that is a vote in their parliaments... or in some countries a vote of their people....
the government originally said they would... and now are saying they wont...
don't you think its weird that everyone else gets a vote AFTER they know what the deal looks like?"
When did they say they won't? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
let me put in terms of a swinging analogy...
would you meet people..... absolutely!!! sure!!!
would you meet people without knowing what they look like or seeing a picture?..... still as happy?
detail? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
So are you saying that 27 other countries will be holding referendums on the deal?
the other 27 countries will each have the ratifiy the final deal... whether that is a vote in their parliaments... or in some countries a vote of their people....
the government originally said they would... and now are saying they wont...
don't you think its weird that everyone else gets a vote AFTER they know what the deal looks like?
When did they say they won't?"
in parliament the day after article 50 bill was ratified.... which is why people wanted it put into the bill rather than just the 3 lines.... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
So are you saying that 27 other countries will be holding referendums on the deal?
the other 27 countries will each have the ratifiy the final deal... whether that is a vote in their parliaments... or in some countries a vote of their people....
the government originally said they would... and now are saying they wont...
don't you think its weird that everyone else gets a vote AFTER they know what the deal looks like?
When did they say they won't?
in parliament the day after article 50 bill was ratified.... which is why people wanted it put into the bill rather than just the 3 lines...."
They said that parliament won't have a say on the final deal? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Libdem is the new labour
I wouldnt say that. I dont believe the libdems have union support? Kind of key if you wish to replace labour in power.
However thd libdems would probably go up in voter confidence if they said they are open to a labor lib dem coilition"
Not sure if the have union support there, but they still could influence the politics with them as they stand for the working man, not the elite and yes, libdem got a greater chance to win as well. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"According to the Independant Tony Blair has offered to work alongside the Lib Dems to fight against Brexit. That's them fucked then "
I thought he was too busy traveling the world making shite loads of money by talking shite!!  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
To some people it would be like asking a striking miner if they could forgive Margaret Thatcher LOL. Is that ever gonna happen.? Doubt it myself. I think they are screwed for another 50 years or so until we're all long dead and feeding the worms in our fusty boxes. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"To some people it would be like asking a striking miner if they could forgive Margaret Thatcher LOL. Is that ever gonna happen.? Doubt it myself. I think they are screwed for another 50 years or so until we're all long dead and feeding the worms in our fusty boxes."
What did the LibDems do that was so much worse than any other political party that has taken office? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andemanMan
over a year ago
bedforshire |
As much as it pains me to say it. The Libdem contribution to the coalition was worth while. Much of the worst instincts of the Tory Right were kept at bay. many Decisions that the Goverment made were opposed internally by Libdem Ministers at the time, who refussed to implement them where they could. Dont ask me how I know this but its a fact i promise you.
Proping up the Tories never sat right with me and the LibDems did try to firm a coalition with Labour but Gordon would not fall on his sword to make it happen.
Given the mess Labour is in now the LibDems and SNP are the only two united coherant parties to stop the Tories with. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
