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NHS Future
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Is the government pushing a privatising the nhs? Deliberately
Defunding the nhs to make it look like a bad performer, annoy tbe public and make them more open up to a privatisation proposals..?
Simon Stevens had links with insurance companies and is now an analyst in the nhs.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There was time when I thought that was just a conspiracy. Now I believe thst there are some in the Commons who have it as a quiet agenda.
I think the next ten years will break 'broken britsin'. |
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Of course they are OP.
It would bring any government down to sell off hospitals to any private company, so the government are going to close down hospitals and open 'super centres' like the one in Bolton. Of course the Bolton super centre is owned by Virgin Care and apparently that's OK.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Every part of the NHS is going up for tender. This has been going on for years but the public don't realise. Break it up and sell it piece by piece. Many departments in my area are now run by Virgin or other private companies. A good thing or not......well we will see. |
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"Every part of the NHS is going up for tender. This has been going on for years but the public don't realise. Break it up and sell it piece by piece. Many departments in my area are now run by Virgin or other private companies. A good thing or not......well we will see."
Good thing?
It has to be obvious that any part of the NHS run for profit is going to be more expensive than when run as a public service. This all started with cleaning services being farmed out to private contractors which was supposed to save money, it did initially, but by reducing staff numbers and standards of cleanliness. Of course that led to higher infection rates and super-bugs (but we cant blame that on dirty hospitals or the private companies that put profits before the need to keep hospitals clean). 
Now it is the turn of front line medical services... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Private firms are the way to ruin...They bring a profit motive and that will be the end of the present system. I do hope we all let our Mps know your feelings...an e-mail should help him or her know your feelings |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them). |
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"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them)."
So your answer for the NHS is to do to it what the tories have done to the social security system...
Lets have the deserving ill and injured and the feckless undeserving ill and injured. Sounds great, the government can give the contract to administer the system to Atos (70% owned by French government) who can make 100's of millions each year refusing NHS treatment to British people and using the profits to fund health care for the French...
Have you any more bright ideas sat on your European beach?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them)."
Absolutely!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them).So your answer for the NHS is to do to it what the tories have done to the social security system...
Lets have the deserving ill and injured and the feckless undeserving ill and injured. Sounds great, the government can give the contract to administer the system to Atos (70% owned by French government) who can make 100's of millions each year refusing NHS treatment to British people and using the profits to fund health care for the French...
Have you any more bright ideas sat on your European beach?
"
your ignorance is apparent from your response! Not once in my post did I say about refusing treatment to undeserving patients - your words not mine! I said people who waste the NHS's time with none emergencies should be made to pay for such services. The UK cannot afford a 1948 NHS ideologue in 2017! As far as how to run the NHS I never once mentioned privatisation - you did. For the record the health service in France is better funded than the UK - by the Govt, public & business. So before spouting off - engage your brain and read what was written. |
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" Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them)."
The above is from your post that I replied to.
"your ignorance is apparent from your response!"
So I am ignorant...
" Not once in my post did I say about refusing treatment to undeserving patients - your words not mine!"
Agree you did not say that I did. However you did in typical tory style imply it and than get all upset when the stark reality of what your suggesting is spelled out in plain language.
"I said people who waste the NHS's time with none emergencies should be made to pay for such services."
And who decides who is wasting services? And exactly how does making some pay for care while others get free care not qualify as filtering those deserving from the undeserving?
"The UK cannot afford a 1948 NHS ideologue in 2017! As far as how to run the NHS I never once mentioned privatisation - you did."
Yep, I did, because the reason that the NHS is in so much trouble is because of privatisation.
"For the record the health service in France is better funded than the UK - by the Govt, public & business."
And the French economy is now bigger than the British economy too. Could both have anything to do with 7 years of ideological austerity? You don't need to answer that.
"So before spouting off - engage your brain and read what was written."
I would suggest you heed your own advice. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them).
The above is from your post that I replied to.
your ignorance is apparent from your response!
So I am ignorant...
Not once in my post did I say about refusing treatment to undeserving patients - your words not mine!
Agree you did not say that I did. However you did in typical tory style imply it and than get all upset when the stark reality of what your suggesting is spelled out in plain language.
I said people who waste the NHS's time with none emergencies should be made to pay for such services.
And who decides who is wasting services? And exactly how does making some pay for care while others get free care not qualify as filtering those deserving from the undeserving?
The UK cannot afford a 1948 NHS ideologue in 2017! As far as how to run the NHS I never once mentioned privatisation - you did.
Yep, I did, because the reason that the NHS is in so much trouble is because of privatisation.
For the record the health service in France is better funded than the UK - by the Govt, public & business.
And the French economy is now bigger than the British economy too. Could both have anything to do with 7 years of ideological austerity? You don't need to answer that.
So before spouting off - engage your brain and read what was written.
I would suggest you heed your own advice. "
You make a lot of assumptions - deal in facts not fiction!
So, how much extra, are you prepared to pay in tax & NI to help the NHS? I won't speculate, that's your job, but you have got to get real. The reason the NHS is failing is because it's underfunded!
Poor government over many years, poor planning has left the NHS staff to work under terrible stress - they do an amazing job!
I thought one of the reasons we chose brexit was because the UK was 5th largest economy in the world? UK is not the only country to have had austerity, yet Britain pays the least per capita into health in Europe. Even eastern European countries pay more!
The NHS needs help now, and whilst it is the government's job it's also the British public's job to also stand up. Yes we have all been promised £350m a week for the NHS, but those who promised it have now gone very quiet!
To conclude something has got to change! Just because it's always been done that way, It doesn't mean it right!
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" I thought one of the reasons we chose brexit was because the UK was 5th largest economy in the world? UK is not the only country to have had austerity, yet Britain pays the least per capita into health in Europe. Even eastern European countries pay more!
The NHS needs help now, and whilst it is the government's job it's also the British public's job to also stand up. Yes we have all been promised £350m a week for the NHS, but those who promised it have now gone very quiet!
To conclude something has got to change! Just because it's always been done that way, It doesn't mean it right!
"
LoL!
What crap!
We chose brexit because the majority that voted (not enough for a union to call a strike by the way) were sold a bag of shit by a load of shisters.
For the last 30 years the tories have been privatising the NHS by stages, anything run for profit is going to deliver a poorer service than something run as a not for profit service. Of course the fact that the current government has cut NHS funding by nearly 20% in the last 7 years (to fund tax breaks for the super rich and the multinational companies they control) will of course have no relationship with the NHS being some 20% underfunded now. 
Maybe I would pay more attention to you if you lived in this country, but seeing you don't, why don't you STFU! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" I thought one of the reasons we chose brexit was because the UK was 5th largest economy in the world? UK is not the only country to have had austerity, yet Britain pays the least per capita into health in Europe. Even eastern European countries pay more!
The NHS needs help now, and whilst it is the government's job it's also the British public's job to also stand up. Yes we have all been promised £350m a week for the NHS, but those who promised it have now gone very quiet!
To conclude something has got to change! Just because it's always been done that way, It doesn't mean it right!
LoL!
What crap!
We chose brexit because the majority that voted (not enough for a union to call a strike by the way) were sold a bag of shit by a load of shisters.
For the last 30 years the tories have been privatising the NHS by stages, anything run for profit is going to deliver a poorer service than something run as a not for profit service. Of course the fact that the current government has cut NHS funding by nearly 20% in the last 7 years (to fund tax breaks for the super rich and the multinational companies they control) will of course have no relationship with the NHS being some 20% underfunded now.
Maybe I would pay more attention to you if you lived in this country, but seeing you don't, why don't you STFU!"
Answer the question - how much would you pay - answer is plain - nothing, typical! As for living in France, - I have paid fully into the UK system and never taken anything out - have you? |
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"Answer the question - how much would you pay - answer is plain - nothing, typical! As for living in France, - I have paid fully into the UK system and never taken anything out - have you?"
I now take out of the system...
However, I have given 6 years of military service and payed well over £10 million in income tax, corporation tax, NI tax and VAT tax prior to my bankruptcy in 2007.
Now I have answered you question, here is mine to you. Seeing as you have fucked off to live in another country what gives you the right to tell us how to conduct our affairs? Could it be that you are looking for ways to cut your tax bills while keeping the security of a British passport rather than doing us all a favour and making the break permanent (that is if anyone would have you)? |
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By *fcdTV/TS
over a year ago
Southend |
The government passed some law a few years ago, buried in an unrelated piece of legislation that allowed them to sell off chunks of the NHS. I suspect most people don't realise how much is already outsourced, try reading a few signs at your hospital, blood tests, cancer treatment are often outsourced. Virgin have been buying up GPs and are now paid around a billion a year to run them, most of which is handled via tax avoidance schemes. It's happening right now folks. |
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"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them).So your answer for the NHS is to do to it what the tories have done to the social security system...
Lets have the deserving ill and injured and the feckless undeserving ill and injured. Sounds great, the government can give the contract to administer the system to Atos (70% owned by French government) who can make 100's of millions each year refusing NHS treatment to British people and using the profits to fund health care for the French...
Have you any more bright ideas sat on your European beach?
"
I think the NHS could learn a hell of a lot from Europe, beach or no beach.
The first lesson would be to stop trying to give a champagne service while charging beer money. Healthcare can't be done on the cheap.
Ten percent national insurance to cover health, pension, and unemployment is far too little so the rest has to come from general taxation.
In Germany, for example, healthcare insurance alone is 14%. Unemployment, pension, and even home care are extra.
Another thing that the Germans do very differently is the way they treat (and charge for) certain types of injury.
For example any injury caused by an assault will be charged in full to the assailant. The insurance will initially pick up the tab for treatment Etc. but will then chase the assailant through the courts to recover the cash, as the brother in law's stepson knows only too well.
A few years ago he was involved in a scuffle outside a nightclub and as a policeman tried to push him away, he pushed back and the cop fell over and broke a couple of fingers.
Cutting a very long story short. He finished up with a 71,000 euro debt which he is still paying monthly direct from his wages. At last count he still owes more than 50,000€ and will have to pay every cent no matter how long it takes.
Even people on benefits don't escape the rule. Should they be involved in a similar situation a punitive benefit cut will ensue.
Adopt that rule in Britain and it would save the NHS a small fortune, with the added benefit of cleaning up some of the "wild west saloons" that some town centre pubs have become.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them).So your answer for the NHS is to do to it what the tories have done to the social security system...
Lets have the deserving ill and injured and the feckless undeserving ill and injured. Sounds great, the government can give the contract to administer the system to Atos (70% owned by French government) who can make 100's of millions each year refusing NHS treatment to British people and using the profits to fund health care for the French...
Have you any more bright ideas sat on your European beach?
I think the NHS could learn a hell of a lot from Europe, beach or no beach.
The first lesson would be to stop trying to give a champagne service while charging beer money. Healthcare can't be done on the cheap.
Ten percent national insurance to cover health, pension, and unemployment is far too little so the rest has to come from general taxation.
In Germany, for example, healthcare insurance alone is 14%. Unemployment, pension, and even home care are extra.
Another thing that the Germans do very differently is the way they treat (and charge for) certain types of injury.
For example any injury caused by an assault will be charged in full to the assailant. The insurance will initially pick up the tab for treatment Etc. but will then chase the assailant through the courts to recover the cash, as the brother in law's stepson knows only too well.
A few years ago he was involved in a scuffle outside a nightclub and as a policeman tried to push him away, he pushed back and the cop fell over and broke a couple of fingers.
Cutting a very long story short. He finished up with a 71,000 euro debt which he is still paying monthly direct from his wages. At last count he still owes more than 50,000€ and will have to pay every cent no matter how long it takes.
Even people on benefits don't escape the rule. Should they be involved in a similar situation a punitive benefit cut will ensue.
Adopt that rule in Britain and it would save the NHS a small fortune, with the added benefit of cleaning up some of the "wild west saloons" that some town centre pubs have become.
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them).So your answer for the NHS is to do to it what the tories have done to the social security system...
Lets have the deserving ill and injured and the feckless undeserving ill and injured. Sounds great, the government can give the contract to administer the system to Atos (70% owned by French government) who can make 100's of millions each year refusing NHS treatment to British people and using the profits to fund health care for the French...
Have you any more bright ideas sat on your European beach?
I think the NHS could learn a hell of a lot from Europe, beach or no beach.
The first lesson would be to stop trying to give a champagne service while charging beer money. Healthcare can't be done on the cheap.
Ten percent national insurance to cover health, pension, and unemployment is far too little so the rest has to come from general taxation.
In Germany, for example, healthcare insurance alone is 14%. Unemployment, pension, and even home care are extra.
Another thing that the Germans do very differently is the way they treat (and charge for) certain types of injury.
For example any injury caused by an assault will be charged in full to the assailant. The insurance will initially pick up the tab for treatment Etc. but will then chase the assailant through the courts to recover the cash, as the brother in law's stepson knows only too well.
A few years ago he was involved in a scuffle outside a nightclub and as a policeman tried to push him away, he pushed back and the cop fell over and broke a couple of fingers.
Cutting a very long story short. He finished up with a 71,000 euro debt which he is still paying monthly direct from his wages. At last count he still owes more than 50,000€ and will have to pay every cent no matter how long it takes.
Even people on benefits don't escape the rule. Should they be involved in a similar situation a punitive benefit cut will ensue.
Adopt that rule in Britain and it would save the NHS a small fortune, with the added benefit of cleaning up some of the "wild west saloons" that some town centre pubs have become.
"
be honest .... can you see the torys being prepared to raise personal taxes on earnings by 4-5% to bring it up to the german level of personal tax on earnings? it's what all realistic thinking people have been calling for since the torys cut taxes from those sorts of levels 30 years ago .... increase taxes to fund societies needs ... simple |
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"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them).So your answer for the NHS is to do to it what the tories have done to the social security system...
Lets have the deserving ill and injured and the feckless undeserving ill and injured. Sounds great, the government can give the contract to administer the system to Atos (70% owned by French government) who can make 100's of millions each year refusing NHS treatment to British people and using the profits to fund health care for the French...
Have you any more bright ideas sat on your European beach?
I think the NHS could learn a hell of a lot from Europe, beach or no beach.
The first lesson would be to stop trying to give a champagne service while charging beer money. Healthcare can't be done on the cheap.
Ten percent national insurance to cover health, pension, and unemployment is far too little so the rest has to come from general taxation.
In Germany, for example, healthcare insurance alone is 14%. Unemployment, pension, and even home care are extra.
Another thing that the Germans do very differently is the way they treat (and charge for) certain types of injury.
For example any injury caused by an assault will be charged in full to the assailant. The insurance will initially pick up the tab for treatment Etc. but will then chase the assailant through the courts to recover the cash, as the brother in law's stepson knows only too well.
A few years ago he was involved in a scuffle outside a nightclub and as a policeman tried to push him away, he pushed back and the cop fell over and broke a couple of fingers.
Cutting a very long story short. He finished up with a 71,000 euro debt which he is still paying monthly direct from his wages. At last count he still owes more than 50,000€ and will have to pay every cent no matter how long it takes.
Even people on benefits don't escape the rule. Should they be involved in a similar situation a punitive benefit cut will ensue.
Adopt that rule in Britain and it would save the NHS a small fortune, with the added benefit of cleaning up some of the "wild west saloons" that some town centre pubs have become.
be honest .... can you see the torys being prepared to raise personal taxes on earnings by 4-5% to bring it up to the german level of personal tax on earnings? it's what all realistic thinking people have been calling for since the torys cut taxes from those sorts of levels 30 years ago .... increase taxes to fund societies needs ... simple"
Yes fine. Blame the Tory's (as usual) It may have escaped your notice but Britain had a Labour government (with a huge majority BTW) that did absolutely fuck all for the NHS in 13 years of power.
No sorry they did a lot actually. They managed to spunk billions on a vanity IT project that ultimately failed. They also spunked billions (good at spunking billions that lot) by turning it into a job creation scheme that put staff before patients. Last but far from least they gave the country PFI what a great idea that was NOT.
However the only way the NHS will survive is if both lots of fucking useless gullible politicians stop playing politics and the blame game and start trying to sort it out.
Maybe everybody will be happy when the NHS epitaph reads. "It was his fault, not mine".
But the result will still be the same.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them).So your answer for the NHS is to do to it what the tories have done to the social security system...
Lets have the deserving ill and injured and the feckless undeserving ill and injured. Sounds great, the government can give the contract to administer the system to Atos (70% owned by French government) who can make 100's of millions each year refusing NHS treatment to British people and using the profits to fund health care for the French...
Have you any more bright ideas sat on your European beach?
I think the NHS could learn a hell of a lot from Europe, beach or no beach.
The first lesson would be to stop trying to give a champagne service while charging beer money. Healthcare can't be done on the cheap.
Ten percent national insurance to cover health, pension, and unemployment is far too little so the rest has to come from general taxation.
In Germany, for example, healthcare insurance alone is 14%. Unemployment, pension, and even home care are extra.
Another thing that the Germans do very differently is the way they treat (and charge for) certain types of injury.
For example any injury caused by an assault will be charged in full to the assailant. The insurance will initially pick up the tab for treatment Etc. but will then chase the assailant through the courts to recover the cash, as the brother in law's stepson knows only too well.
A few years ago he was involved in a scuffle outside a nightclub and as a policeman tried to push him away, he pushed back and the cop fell over and broke a couple of fingers.
Cutting a very long story short. He finished up with a 71,000 euro debt which he is still paying monthly direct from his wages. At last count he still owes more than 50,000€ and will have to pay every cent no matter how long it takes.
Even people on benefits don't escape the rule. Should they be involved in a similar situation a punitive benefit cut will ensue.
Adopt that rule in Britain and it would save the NHS a small fortune, with the added benefit of cleaning up some of the "wild west saloons" that some town centre pubs have become.
be honest .... can you see the torys being prepared to raise personal taxes on earnings by 4-5% to bring it up to the german level of personal tax on earnings? it's what all realistic thinking people have been calling for since the torys cut taxes from those sorts of levels 30 years ago .... increase taxes to fund societies needs ... simple
Yes fine. Blame the Tory's (as usual) It may have escaped your notice but Britain had a Labour government (with a huge majority BTW) that did absolutely fuck all for the NHS in 13 years of power.
No sorry they did a lot actually. They managed to spunk billions on a vanity IT project that ultimately failed. They also spunked billions (good at spunking billions that lot) by turning it into a job creation scheme that put staff before patients. Last but far from least they gave the country PFI what a great idea that was NOT.
However the only way the NHS will survive is if both lots of fucking useless gullible politicians stop playing politics and the blame game and start trying to sort it out.
Maybe everybody will be happy when the NHS epitaph reads. "It was his fault, not mine".
But the result will still be the same.
"
despite your idealogical rant .... the fact still stands that the torys reduced personal tax on earnings by a third in their first 8 years of power in the 80's leaving health, public services and infrastructure in a state that they will never recover from unless they start to reverse all the tax cuts they implemented .... despite all realistic thinking people calling for this to happen, can you honestly see them doing that? |
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"Bevan must be turning in his grave."
I doubt it, the worms and water impregnating his coffin will have turned him back to carbon and other bits along time ago, if he can turn in his grave they really should not have buried him
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"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them).So your answer for the NHS is to do to it what the tories have done to the social security system...
Lets have the deserving ill and injured and the feckless undeserving ill and injured. Sounds great, the government can give the contract to administer the system to Atos (70% owned by French government) who can make 100's of millions each year refusing NHS treatment to British people and using the profits to fund health care for the French...
Have you any more bright ideas sat on your European beach?
I think the NHS could learn a hell of a lot from Europe, beach or no beach.
The first lesson would be to stop trying to give a champagne service while charging beer money. Healthcare can't be done on the cheap.
Ten percent national insurance to cover health, pension, and unemployment is far too little so the rest has to come from general taxation.
In Germany, for example, healthcare insurance alone is 14%. Unemployment, pension, and even home care are extra.
Another thing that the Germans do very differently is the way they treat (and charge for) certain types of injury.
For example any injury caused by an assault will be charged in full to the assailant. The insurance will initially pick up the tab for treatment Etc. but will then chase the assailant through the courts to recover the cash, as the brother in law's stepson knows only too well.
A few years ago he was involved in a scuffle outside a nightclub and as a policeman tried to push him away, he pushed back and the cop fell over and broke a couple of fingers.
Cutting a very long story short. He finished up with a 71,000 euro debt which he is still paying monthly direct from his wages. At last count he still owes more than 50,000€ and will have to pay every cent no matter how long it takes.
Even people on benefits don't escape the rule. Should they be involved in a similar situation a punitive benefit cut will ensue.
Adopt that rule in Britain and it would save the NHS a small fortune, with the added benefit of cleaning up some of the "wild west saloons" that some town centre pubs have become.
be honest .... can you see the torys being prepared to raise personal taxes on earnings by 4-5% to bring it up to the german level of personal tax on earnings? it's what all realistic thinking people have been calling for since the torys cut taxes from those sorts of levels 30 years ago .... increase taxes to fund societies needs ... simple
Yes fine. Blame the Tory's (as usual) It may have escaped your notice but Britain had a Labour government (with a huge majority BTW) that did absolutely fuck all for the NHS in 13 years of power.
No sorry they did a lot actually. They managed to spunk billions on a vanity IT project that ultimately failed. They also spunked billions (good at spunking billions that lot) by turning it into a job creation scheme that put staff before patients. Last but far from least they gave the country PFI what a great idea that was NOT.
However the only way the NHS will survive is if both lots of fucking useless gullible politicians stop playing politics and the blame game and start trying to sort it out.
Maybe everybody will be happy when the NHS epitaph reads. "It was his fault, not mine".
But the result will still be the same.
despite your idealogical rant .... the fact still stands that the torys reduced personal tax on earnings by a third in their first 8 years of power in the 80's leaving health, public services and infrastructure in a state that they will never recover from unless they start to reverse all the tax cuts they implemented .... despite all realistic thinking people calling for this to happen, can you honestly see them doing that? "
Tax is a robbery on the individual who earned it.. |
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|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them).So your answer for the NHS is to do to it what the tories have done to the social security system...
Lets have the deserving ill and injured and the feckless undeserving ill and injured. Sounds great, the government can give the contract to administer the system to Atos (70% owned by French government) who can make 100's of millions each year refusing NHS treatment to British people and using the profits to fund health care for the French...
Have you any more bright ideas sat on your European beach?
I think the NHS could learn a hell of a lot from Europe, beach or no beach.
The first lesson would be to stop trying to give a champagne service while charging beer money. Healthcare can't be done on the cheap.
Ten percent national insurance to cover health, pension, and unemployment is far too little so the rest has to come from general taxation.
In Germany, for example, healthcare insurance alone is 14%. Unemployment, pension, and even home care are extra.
Another thing that the Germans do very differently is the way they treat (and charge for) certain types of injury.
For example any injury caused by an assault will be charged in full to the assailant. The insurance will initially pick up the tab for treatment Etc. but will then chase the assailant through the courts to recover the cash, as the brother in law's stepson knows only too well.
A few years ago he was involved in a scuffle outside a nightclub and as a policeman tried to push him away, he pushed back and the cop fell over and broke a couple of fingers.
Cutting a very long story short. He finished up with a 71,000 euro debt which he is still paying monthly direct from his wages. At last count he still owes more than 50,000€ and will have to pay every cent no matter how long it takes.
Even people on benefits don't escape the rule. Should they be involved in a similar situation a punitive benefit cut will ensue.
Adopt that rule in Britain and it would save the NHS a small fortune, with the added benefit of cleaning up some of the "wild west saloons" that some town centre pubs have become.
be honest .... can you see the torys being prepared to raise personal taxes on earnings by 4-5% to bring it up to the german level of personal tax on earnings? it's what all realistic thinking people have been calling for since the torys cut taxes from those sorts of levels 30 years ago .... increase taxes to fund societies needs ... simple
Yes fine. Blame the Tory's (as usual) It may have escaped your notice but Britain had a Labour government (with a huge majority BTW) that did absolutely fuck all for the NHS in 13 years of power.
No sorry they did a lot actually. They managed to spunk billions on a vanity IT project that ultimately failed. They also spunked billions (good at spunking billions that lot) by turning it into a job creation scheme that put staff before patients. Last but far from least they gave the country PFI what a great idea that was NOT.
However the only way the NHS will survive is if both lots of fucking useless gullible politicians stop playing politics and the blame game and start trying to sort it out.
Maybe everybody will be happy when the NHS epitaph reads. "It was his fault, not mine".
But the result will still be the same.
despite your idealogical rant .... the fact still stands that the torys reduced personal tax on earnings by a third in their first 8 years of power in the 80's leaving health, public services and infrastructure in a state that they will never recover from unless they start to reverse all the tax cuts they implemented .... despite all realistic thinking people calling for this to happen, can you honestly see them doing that?
Tax is a robbery on the individual who earned it.."
How else would you propose the government gain the cash to pay for you to (not) fit heaters and meters or essential central services such as healthcare or infrastructure?
-Matt |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them).So your answer for the NHS is to do to it what the tories have done to the social security system...
Lets have the deserving ill and injured and the feckless undeserving ill and injured. Sounds great, the government can give the contract to administer the system to Atos (70% owned by French government) who can make 100's of millions each year refusing NHS treatment to British people and using the profits to fund health care for the French...
Have you any more bright ideas sat on your European beach?
I think the NHS could learn a hell of a lot from Europe, beach or no beach.
The first lesson would be to stop trying to give a champagne service while charging beer money. Healthcare can't be done on the cheap.
Ten percent national insurance to cover health, pension, and unemployment is far too little so the rest has to come from general taxation.
In Germany, for example, healthcare insurance alone is 14%. Unemployment, pension, and even home care are extra.
Another thing that the Germans do very differently is the way they treat (and charge for) certain types of injury.
For example any injury caused by an assault will be charged in full to the assailant. The insurance will initially pick up the tab for treatment Etc. but will then chase the assailant through the courts to recover the cash, as the brother in law's stepson knows only too well.
A few years ago he was involved in a scuffle outside a nightclub and as a policeman tried to push him away, he pushed back and the cop fell over and broke a couple of fingers.
Cutting a very long story short. He finished up with a 71,000 euro debt which he is still paying monthly direct from his wages. At last count he still owes more than 50,000€ and will have to pay every cent no matter how long it takes.
Even people on benefits don't escape the rule. Should they be involved in a similar situation a punitive benefit cut will ensue.
Adopt that rule in Britain and it would save the NHS a small fortune, with the added benefit of cleaning up some of the "wild west saloons" that some town centre pubs have become.
be honest .... can you see the torys being prepared to raise personal taxes on earnings by 4-5% to bring it up to the german level of personal tax on earnings? it's what all realistic thinking people have been calling for since the torys cut taxes from those sorts of levels 30 years ago .... increase taxes to fund societies needs ... simple
Yes fine. Blame the Tory's (as usual) It may have escaped your notice but Britain had a Labour government (with a huge majority BTW) that did absolutely fuck all for the NHS in 13 years of power.
No sorry they did a lot actually. They managed to spunk billions on a vanity IT project that ultimately failed. They also spunked billions (good at spunking billions that lot) by turning it into a job creation scheme that put staff before patients. Last but far from least they gave the country PFI what a great idea that was NOT.
However the only way the NHS will survive is if both lots of fucking useless gullible politicians stop playing politics and the blame game and start trying to sort it out.
Maybe everybody will be happy when the NHS epitaph reads. "It was his fault, not mine".
But the result will still be the same.
despite your idealogical rant .... the fact still stands that the torys reduced personal tax on earnings by a third in their first 8 years of power in the 80's leaving health, public services and infrastructure in a state that they will never recover from unless they start to reverse all the tax cuts they implemented .... despite all realistic thinking people calling for this to happen, can you honestly see them doing that?
Tax is a robbery on the individual who earned it.."
Looks like we have an economic libertarian in he building... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them).So your answer for the NHS is to do to it what the tories have done to the social security system...
Lets have the deserving ill and injured and the feckless undeserving ill and injured. Sounds great, the government can give the contract to administer the system to Atos (70% owned by French government) who can make 100's of millions each year refusing NHS treatment to British people and using the profits to fund health care for the French...
Have you any more bright ideas sat on your European beach?
I think the NHS could learn a hell of a lot from Europe, beach or no beach.
The first lesson would be to stop trying to give a champagne service while charging beer money. Healthcare can't be done on the cheap.
Ten percent national insurance to cover health, pension, and unemployment is far too little so the rest has to come from general taxation.
In Germany, for example, healthcare insurance alone is 14%. Unemployment, pension, and even home care are extra.
Another thing that the Germans do very differently is the way they treat (and charge for) certain types of injury.
For example any injury caused by an assault will be charged in full to the assailant. The insurance will initially pick up the tab for treatment Etc. but will then chase the assailant through the courts to recover the cash, as the brother in law's stepson knows only too well.
A few years ago he was involved in a scuffle outside a nightclub and as a policeman tried to push him away, he pushed back and the cop fell over and broke a couple of fingers.
Cutting a very long story short. He finished up with a 71,000 euro debt which he is still paying monthly direct from his wages. At last count he still owes more than 50,000€ and will have to pay every cent no matter how long it takes.
Even people on benefits don't escape the rule. Should they be involved in a similar situation a punitive benefit cut will ensue.
Adopt that rule in Britain and it would save the NHS a small fortune, with the added benefit of cleaning up some of the "wild west saloons" that some town centre pubs have become.
be honest .... can you see the torys being prepared to raise personal taxes on earnings by 4-5% to bring it up to the german level of personal tax on earnings? it's what all realistic thinking people have been calling for since the torys cut taxes from those sorts of levels 30 years ago .... increase taxes to fund societies needs ... simple
Yes fine. Blame the Tory's (as usual) It may have escaped your notice but Britain had a Labour government (with a huge majority BTW) that did absolutely fuck all for the NHS in 13 years of power.
No sorry they did a lot actually. They managed to spunk billions on a vanity IT project that ultimately failed. They also spunked billions (good at spunking billions that lot) by turning it into a job creation scheme that put staff before patients. Last but far from least they gave the country PFI what a great idea that was NOT.
However the only way the NHS will survive is if both lots of fucking useless gullible politicians stop playing politics and the blame game and start trying to sort it out.
Maybe everybody will be happy when the NHS epitaph reads. "It was his fault, not mine".
But the result will still be the same.
despite your idealogical rant .... the fact still stands that the torys reduced personal tax on earnings by a third in their first 8 years of power in the 80's leaving health, public services and infrastructure in a state that they will never recover from unless they start to reverse all the tax cuts they implemented .... despite all realistic thinking people calling for this to happen, can you honestly see them doing that?
Tax is a robbery on the individual who earned it..
Looks like we have an economic libertarian in he building... "
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them).So your answer for the NHS is to do to it what the tories have done to the social security system...
Lets have the deserving ill and injured and the feckless undeserving ill and injured. Sounds great, the government can give the contract to administer the system to Atos (70% owned by French government) who can make 100's of millions each year refusing NHS treatment to British people and using the profits to fund health care for the French...
Have you any more bright ideas sat on your European beach?
I think the NHS could learn a hell of a lot from Europe, beach or no beach.
The first lesson would be to stop trying to give a champagne service while charging beer money. Healthcare can't be done on the cheap.
Ten percent national insurance to cover health, pension, and unemployment is far too little so the rest has to come from general taxation.
In Germany, for example, healthcare insurance alone is 14%. Unemployment, pension, and even home care are extra.
Another thing that the Germans do very differently is the way they treat (and charge for) certain types of injury.
For example any injury caused by an assault will be charged in full to the assailant. The insurance will initially pick up the tab for treatment Etc. but will then chase the assailant through the courts to recover the cash, as the brother in law's stepson knows only too well.
A few years ago he was involved in a scuffle outside a nightclub and as a policeman tried to push him away, he pushed back and the cop fell over and broke a couple of fingers.
Cutting a very long story short. He finished up with a 71,000 euro debt which he is still paying monthly direct from his wages. At last count he still owes more than 50,000€ and will have to pay every cent no matter how long it takes.
Even people on benefits don't escape the rule. Should they be involved in a similar situation a punitive benefit cut will ensue.
Adopt that rule in Britain and it would save the NHS a small fortune, with the added benefit of cleaning up some of the "wild west saloons" that some town centre pubs have become.
be honest .... can you see the torys being prepared to raise personal taxes on earnings by 4-5% to bring it up to the german level of personal tax on earnings? it's what all realistic thinking people have been calling for since the torys cut taxes from those sorts of levels 30 years ago .... increase taxes to fund societies needs ... simple
Yes fine. Blame the Tory's (as usual) It may have escaped your notice but Britain had a Labour government (with a huge majority BTW) that did absolutely fuck all for the NHS in 13 years of power.
No sorry they did a lot actually. They managed to spunk billions on a vanity IT project that ultimately failed. They also spunked billions (good at spunking billions that lot) by turning it into a job creation scheme that put staff before patients. Last but far from least they gave the country PFI what a great idea that was NOT.
However the only way the NHS will survive is if both lots of fucking useless gullible politicians stop playing politics and the blame game and start trying to sort it out.
Maybe everybody will be happy when the NHS epitaph reads. "It was his fault, not mine".
But the result will still be the same.
despite your idealogical rant .... the fact still stands that the torys reduced personal tax on earnings by a third in their first 8 years of power in the 80's leaving health, public services and infrastructure in a state that they will never recover from unless they start to reverse all the tax cuts they implemented .... despite all realistic thinking people calling for this to happen, can you honestly see them doing that?
Tax is a robbery on the individual who earned it..
Looks like we have an economic libertarian in he building... "
No Tax at all?
Is that not an Anarcho capitalist as opposed to an economic libertarian? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them).So your answer for the NHS is to do to it what the tories have done to the social security system...
Lets have the deserving ill and injured and the feckless undeserving ill and injured. Sounds great, the government can give the contract to administer the system to Atos (70% owned by French government) who can make 100's of millions each year refusing NHS treatment to British people and using the profits to fund health care for the French...
Have you any more bright ideas sat on your European beach?
I think the NHS could learn a hell of a lot from Europe, beach or no beach.
The first lesson would be to stop trying to give a champagne service while charging beer money. Healthcare can't be done on the cheap.
Ten percent national insurance to cover health, pension, and unemployment is far too little so the rest has to come from general taxation.
In Germany, for example, healthcare insurance alone is 14%. Unemployment, pension, and even home care are extra.
Another thing that the Germans do very differently is the way they treat (and charge for) certain types of injury.
For example any injury caused by an assault will be charged in full to the assailant. The insurance will initially pick up the tab for treatment Etc. but will then chase the assailant through the courts to recover the cash, as the brother in law's stepson knows only too well.
A few years ago he was involved in a scuffle outside a nightclub and as a policeman tried to push him away, he pushed back and the cop fell over and broke a couple of fingers.
Cutting a very long story short. He finished up with a 71,000 euro debt which he is still paying monthly direct from his wages. At last count he still owes more than 50,000€ and will have to pay every cent no matter how long it takes.
Even people on benefits don't escape the rule. Should they be involved in a similar situation a punitive benefit cut will ensue.
Adopt that rule in Britain and it would save the NHS a small fortune, with the added benefit of cleaning up some of the "wild west saloons" that some town centre pubs have become.
be honest .... can you see the torys being prepared to raise personal taxes on earnings by 4-5% to bring it up to the german level of personal tax on earnings? it's what all realistic thinking people have been calling for since the torys cut taxes from those sorts of levels 30 years ago .... increase taxes to fund societies needs ... simple
Yes fine. Blame the Tory's (as usual) It may have escaped your notice but Britain had a Labour government (with a huge majority BTW) that did absolutely fuck all for the NHS in 13 years of power.
No sorry they did a lot actually. They managed to spunk billions on a vanity IT project that ultimately failed. They also spunked billions (good at spunking billions that lot) by turning it into a job creation scheme that put staff before patients. Last but far from least they gave the country PFI what a great idea that was NOT.
However the only way the NHS will survive is if both lots of fucking useless gullible politicians stop playing politics and the blame game and start trying to sort it out.
Maybe everybody will be happy when the NHS epitaph reads. "It was his fault, not mine".
But the result will still be the same.
despite your idealogical rant .... the fact still stands that the torys reduced personal tax on earnings by a third in their first 8 years of power in the 80's leaving health, public services and infrastructure in a state that they will never recover from unless they start to reverse all the tax cuts they implemented .... despite all realistic thinking people calling for this to happen, can you honestly see them doing that?
Tax is a robbery on the individual who earned it..
Looks like we have an economic libertarian in he building...
No Tax at all?
Is that not an Anarcho capitalist as opposed to an economic libertarian?"
anarch capitalists ... now that's just plain old fashioned idealistic bellend .... people would just turn up at theirs and steal their shit of them lol |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them).So your answer for the NHS is to do to it what the tories have done to the social security system...
Lets have the deserving ill and injured and the feckless undeserving ill and injured. Sounds great, the government can give the contract to administer the system to Atos (70% owned by French government) who can make 100's of millions each year refusing NHS treatment to British people and using the profits to fund health care for the French...
Have you any more bright ideas sat on your European beach?
I think the NHS could learn a hell of a lot from Europe, beach or no beach.
The first lesson would be to stop trying to give a champagne service while charging beer money. Healthcare can't be done on the cheap.
Ten percent national insurance to cover health, pension, and unemployment is far too little so the rest has to come from general taxation.
In Germany, for example, healthcare insurance alone is 14%. Unemployment, pension, and even home care are extra.
Another thing that the Germans do very differently is the way they treat (and charge for) certain types of injury.
For example any injury caused by an assault will be charged in full to the assailant. The insurance will initially pick up the tab for treatment Etc. but will then chase the assailant through the courts to recover the cash, as the brother in law's stepson knows only too well.
A few years ago he was involved in a scuffle outside a nightclub and as a policeman tried to push him away, he pushed back and the cop fell over and broke a couple of fingers.
Cutting a very long story short. He finished up with a 71,000 euro debt which he is still paying monthly direct from his wages. At last count he still owes more than 50,000€ and will have to pay every cent no matter how long it takes.
Even people on benefits don't escape the rule. Should they be involved in a similar situation a punitive benefit cut will ensue.
Adopt that rule in Britain and it would save the NHS a small fortune, with the added benefit of cleaning up some of the "wild west saloons" that some town centre pubs have become.
be honest .... can you see the torys being prepared to raise personal taxes on earnings by 4-5% to bring it up to the german level of personal tax on earnings? it's what all realistic thinking people have been calling for since the torys cut taxes from those sorts of levels 30 years ago .... increase taxes to fund societies needs ... simple
Yes fine. Blame the Tory's (as usual) It may have escaped your notice but Britain had a Labour government (with a huge majority BTW) that did absolutely fuck all for the NHS in 13 years of power.
No sorry they did a lot actually. They managed to spunk billions on a vanity IT project that ultimately failed. They also spunked billions (good at spunking billions that lot) by turning it into a job creation scheme that put staff before patients. Last but far from least they gave the country PFI what a great idea that was NOT.
However the only way the NHS will survive is if both lots of fucking useless gullible politicians stop playing politics and the blame game and start trying to sort it out.
Maybe everybody will be happy when the NHS epitaph reads. "It was his fault, not mine".
But the result will still be the same.
despite your idealogical rant .... the fact still stands that the torys reduced personal tax on earnings by a third in their first 8 years of power in the 80's leaving health, public services and infrastructure in a state that they will never recover from unless they start to reverse all the tax cuts they implemented .... despite all realistic thinking people calling for this to happen, can you honestly see them doing that?
Tax is a robbery on the individual who earned it..
Looks like we have an economic libertarian in he building...
No Tax at all?
Is that not an Anarcho capitalist as opposed to an economic libertarian?
anarch capitalists ... now that's just plain old fashioned idealistic bellend .... people would just turn up at theirs and steal their shit of them lol"
Anarcho capitalists/ market Anarchists believe in total uftettered freedom of the market, no tax, no state only capital. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them).So your answer for the NHS is to do to it what the tories have done to the social security system...
Lets have the deserving ill and injured and the feckless undeserving ill and injured. Sounds great, the government can give the contract to administer the system to Atos (70% owned by French government) who can make 100's of millions each year refusing NHS treatment to British people and using the profits to fund health care for the French...
Have you any more bright ideas sat on your European beach?
I think the NHS could learn a hell of a lot from Europe, beach or no beach.
The first lesson would be to stop trying to give a champagne service while charging beer money. Healthcare can't be done on the cheap.
Ten percent national insurance to cover health, pension, and unemployment is far too little so the rest has to come from general taxation.
In Germany, for example, healthcare insurance alone is 14%. Unemployment, pension, and even home care are extra.
Another thing that the Germans do very differently is the way they treat (and charge for) certain types of injury.
For example any injury caused by an assault will be charged in full to the assailant. The insurance will initially pick up the tab for treatment Etc. but will then chase the assailant through the courts to recover the cash, as the brother in law's stepson knows only too well.
A few years ago he was involved in a scuffle outside a nightclub and as a policeman tried to push him away, he pushed back and the cop fell over and broke a couple of fingers.
Cutting a very long story short. He finished up with a 71,000 euro debt which he is still paying monthly direct from his wages. At last count he still owes more than 50,000€ and will have to pay every cent no matter how long it takes.
Even people on benefits don't escape the rule. Should they be involved in a similar situation a punitive benefit cut will ensue.
Adopt that rule in Britain and it would save the NHS a small fortune, with the added benefit of cleaning up some of the "wild west saloons" that some town centre pubs have become.
be honest .... can you see the torys being prepared to raise personal taxes on earnings by 4-5% to bring it up to the german level of personal tax on earnings? it's what all realistic thinking people have been calling for since the torys cut taxes from those sorts of levels 30 years ago .... increase taxes to fund societies needs ... simple
Yes fine. Blame the Tory's (as usual) It may have escaped your notice but Britain had a Labour government (with a huge majority BTW) that did absolutely fuck all for the NHS in 13 years of power.
No sorry they did a lot actually. They managed to spunk billions on a vanity IT project that ultimately failed. They also spunked billions (good at spunking billions that lot) by turning it into a job creation scheme that put staff before patients. Last but far from least they gave the country PFI what a great idea that was NOT.
However the only way the NHS will survive is if both lots of fucking useless gullible politicians stop playing politics and the blame game and start trying to sort it out.
Maybe everybody will be happy when the NHS epitaph reads. "It was his fault, not mine".
But the result will still be the same.
despite your idealogical rant .... the fact still stands that the torys reduced personal tax on earnings by a third in their first 8 years of power in the 80's leaving health, public services and infrastructure in a state that they will never recover from unless they start to reverse all the tax cuts they implemented .... despite all realistic thinking people calling for this to happen, can you honestly see them doing that?
Tax is a robbery on the individual who earned it..
How else would you propose the government gain the cash to pay for you to (not) fit heaters and meters or essential central services such as healthcare or infrastructure?
-Matt"
I'm all for paying my fair share of tax, which I have done since the day I left school in 1979, but let's be honest no government earned the income that they tax. Unfortunately personal taxation has now reached saturation point in the U.K.. we need to cut down on those claiming benefits who really shouldn't be. We need challange the likes PayPal google etc who don't pay a fair share in tax from the revenue they generate in the U.K. But hey something needs to fund exploration to Mars and the development of Tesla cars |
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"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them).So your answer for the NHS is to do to it what the tories have done to the social security system...
Lets have the deserving ill and injured and the feckless undeserving ill and injured. Sounds great, the government can give the contract to administer the system to Atos (70% owned by French government) who can make 100's of millions each year refusing NHS treatment to British people and using the profits to fund health care for the French...
Have you any more bright ideas sat on your European beach?
I think the NHS could learn a hell of a lot from Europe, beach or no beach.
The first lesson would be to stop trying to give a champagne service while charging beer money. Healthcare can't be done on the cheap.
Ten percent national insurance to cover health, pension, and unemployment is far too little so the rest has to come from general taxation.
In Germany, for example, healthcare insurance alone is 14%. Unemployment, pension, and even home care are extra.
Another thing that the Germans do very differently is the way they treat (and charge for) certain types of injury.
For example any injury caused by an assault will be charged in full to the assailant. The insurance will initially pick up the tab for treatment Etc. but will then chase the assailant through the courts to recover the cash, as the brother in law's stepson knows only too well.
A few years ago he was involved in a scuffle outside a nightclub and as a policeman tried to push him away, he pushed back and the cop fell over and broke a couple of fingers.
Cutting a very long story short. He finished up with a 71,000 euro debt which he is still paying monthly direct from his wages. At last count he still owes more than 50,000€ and will have to pay every cent no matter how long it takes.
Even people on benefits don't escape the rule. Should they be involved in a similar situation a punitive benefit cut will ensue.
Adopt that rule in Britain and it would save the NHS a small fortune, with the added benefit of cleaning up some of the "wild west saloons" that some town centre pubs have become.
be honest .... can you see the torys being prepared to raise personal taxes on earnings by 4-5% to bring it up to the german level of personal tax on earnings? it's what all realistic thinking people have been calling for since the torys cut taxes from those sorts of levels 30 years ago .... increase taxes to fund societies needs ... simple
Yes fine. Blame the Tory's (as usual) It may have escaped your notice but Britain had a Labour government (with a huge majority BTW) that did absolutely fuck all for the NHS in 13 years of power.
No sorry they did a lot actually. They managed to spunk billions on a vanity IT project that ultimately failed. They also spunked billions (good at spunking billions that lot) by turning it into a job creation scheme that put staff before patients. Last but far from least they gave the country PFI what a great idea that was NOT.
However the only way the NHS will survive is if both lots of fucking useless gullible politicians stop playing politics and the blame game and start trying to sort it out.
Maybe everybody will be happy when the NHS epitaph reads. "It was his fault, not mine".
But the result will still be the same.
despite your idealogical rant .... the fact still stands that the torys reduced personal tax on earnings by a third in their first 8 years of power in the 80's leaving health, public services and infrastructure in a state that they will never recover from unless they start to reverse all the tax cuts they implemented .... despite all realistic thinking people calling for this to happen, can you honestly see them doing that?
Tax is a robbery on the individual who earned it..
How else would you propose the government gain the cash to pay for you to (not) fit heaters and meters or essential central services such as healthcare or infrastructure?
-Matt
I'm all for paying my fair share of tax, which I have done since the day I left school in 1979, but let's be honest no government earned the income that they tax. Unfortunately personal taxation has now reached saturation point in the U.K.. we need to cut down on those claiming benefits who really shouldn't be. We need challange the likes PayPal google etc who don't pay a fair share in tax from the revenue they generate in the U.K. But hey something needs to fund exploration to Mars and the development of Tesla cars"
And the government don't fund the either dumb or smart meter programme. This is covered by the standing charge that your MAM adds to your bill on a monthly basis |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them)."
I agree with what you say about time wasters wantin a lift home etc.. However, the nhs has been a political football for as long ad i remember. I worked in a&e in tbe 80s when thatcher introduced managers who contributed nothing medically with fancy weird job titles yet were a drain on finance.. Specially made carpet for their offoces with motifes on, £1000 quid office chairs etc.. On top of fancy salaries Yet when i ran short of equipment i wad told there wasnt enough money |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
The government are saying the nhs is in the red by 22 billion., i'd like to know how much ended up lining the pockets of big business.. Thw nhs should be a not for profit organisation.. It shouldn't be top heavy with managers who dont contribute to the primary function of the nhs |
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"The government are saying the nhs is in the red by 22 billion., i'd like to know how much ended up lining the pockets of big business.. Thw nhs should be a not for profit organisation.. It shouldn't be top heavy with managers who dont contribute to the primary function of the nhs "
And how much the tories have cut from the NHS and local government social care in the last 7 years...
Bet it would cover the debt...
Any takers? |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them).So your answer for the NHS is to do to it what the tories have done to the social security system...
Lets have the deserving ill and injured and the feckless undeserving ill and injured. Sounds great, the government can give the contract to administer the system to Atos (70% owned by French government) who can make 100's of millions each year refusing NHS treatment to British people and using the profits to fund health care for the French...
Have you any more bright ideas sat on your European beach?
I think the NHS could learn a hell of a lot from Europe, beach or no beach.
The first lesson would be to stop trying to give a champagne service while charging beer money. Healthcare can't be done on the cheap.
Ten percent national insurance to cover health, pension, and unemployment is far too little so the rest has to come from general taxation.
In Germany, for example, healthcare insurance alone is 14%. Unemployment, pension, and even home care are extra.
Another thing that the Germans do very differently is the way they treat (and charge for) certain types of injury.
For example any injury caused by an assault will be charged in full to the assailant. The insurance will initially pick up the tab for treatment Etc. but will then chase the assailant through the courts to recover the cash, as the brother in law's stepson knows only too well.
A few years ago he was involved in a scuffle outside a nightclub and as a policeman tried to push him away, he pushed back and the cop fell over and broke a couple of fingers.
Cutting a very long story short. He finished up with a 71,000 euro debt which he is still paying monthly direct from his wages. At last count he still owes more than 50,000€ and will have to pay every cent no matter how long it takes.
Even people on benefits don't escape the rule. Should they be involved in a similar situation a punitive benefit cut will ensue.
Adopt that rule in Britain and it would save the NHS a small fortune, with the added benefit of cleaning up some of the "wild west saloons" that some town centre pubs have become.
be honest .... can you see the torys being prepared to raise personal taxes on earnings by 4-5% to bring it up to the german level of personal tax on earnings? it's what all realistic thinking people have been calling for since the torys cut taxes from those sorts of levels 30 years ago .... increase taxes to fund societies needs ... simple
Yes fine. Blame the Tory's (as usual) It may have escaped your notice but Britain had a Labour government (with a huge majority BTW) that did absolutely fuck all for the NHS in 13 years of power.
No sorry they did a lot actually. They managed to spunk billions on a vanity IT project that ultimately failed. They also spunked billions (good at spunking billions that lot) by turning it into a job creation scheme that put staff before patients. Last but far from least they gave the country PFI what a great idea that was NOT.
However the only way the NHS will survive is if both lots of fucking useless gullible politicians stop playing politics and the blame game and start trying to sort it out.
Maybe everybody will be happy when the NHS epitaph reads. "It was his fault, not mine".
But the result will still be the same.
despite your idealogical rant .... the fact still stands that the torys reduced personal tax on earnings by a third in their first 8 years of power in the 80's leaving health, public services and infrastructure in a state that they will never recover from unless they start to reverse all the tax cuts they implemented .... despite all realistic thinking people calling for this to happen, can you honestly see them doing that?
Tax is a robbery on the individual who earned it..
How else would you propose the government gain the cash to pay for you to (not) fit heaters and meters or essential central services such as healthcare or infrastructure?
-Matt
I'm all for paying my fair share of tax, which I have done since the day I left school in 1979, but let's be honest no government earned the income that they tax. Unfortunately personal taxation has now reached saturation point in the U.K.. we need to cut down on those claiming benefits who really shouldn't be. We need challange the likes PayPal google etc who don't pay a fair share in tax from the revenue they generate in the U.K. But hey something needs to fund exploration to Mars and the development of Tesla cars"
Oh, indeed the UK govt need to crack down on corporations not paying their taxes here. This is why many have treated some of the reports of companies moving to the UK post-brexit with a dose of scepticism as in many cases they are moving for tax benefit reasons. Alas rather than actually tackle it, our government seem to be keen on turning us into a tax haven instead.
I'm also not sure what you mean by 'personal taxation has reached saturation point'. I think that the issue is the divide between the haves and have-nots is growing and the current government seem to have no problem in letting the 'haves' get the breaks, and the have-nots get penalised.
I think you need to put your thoughts of benefit fraud into perspective though. From figures a few months back, fraud represents just 1% of the annual benefits budget. It represents just 2% of the annual total fraud in the UK, compared to tax fraud at 69%:
http://www.cas.org.uk/features/myth-busting-real-figures-benefit-fraud
And yes, something does need to fund and encourage the development of alternate means of powering transport. That is why the government offer subsidies for electric vehicles. You see that as a bad thing I'm guessing from your tone above?
-Matt
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I believe we can afford it"
Me too.. But the nhs doesn't fit into tory ideology. Tbey won't openly destroy it but will nudge it that direction. Currently they are in the defunding stage. Cutting funding and also introduction of managers and systems that don't contribute to the nhs's primary function.
This makes it look as if its not fit for purpose, this is to get the public {the gullible ones) onside for it to be cut up and privatised.
No doubt insurance companies will be interested.. Possibly us paying for medical insurance and the if you claim for an accident or illness.. Look for excuses why your not covered..
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"But the NHS is "not fit for purpose" in the 21st century. The problem being is that it's a political time bomb. It needs to change, modernise for today. The British people's expectations need to change too! We can't have everything for nothing. The funding needs to come from gov't & the public. We need to realise that a&e is not a doctor's surgery. Minor ailments should be refused treatments - and referred to GP's or pharmacists. Self inflicted injuries should be charged for - binge drinking, need a lift home etc. The public need to be educated in the use of services (some of them).So your answer for the NHS is to do to it what the tories have done to the social security system...
Lets have the deserving ill and injured and the feckless undeserving ill and injured. Sounds great, the government can give the contract to administer the system to Atos (70% owned by French government) who can make 100's of millions each year refusing NHS treatment to British people and using the profits to fund health care for the French...
Have you any more bright ideas sat on your European beach?
I think the NHS could learn a hell of a lot from Europe, beach or no beach.
The first lesson would be to stop trying to give a champagne service while charging beer money. Healthcare can't be done on the cheap.
Ten percent national insurance to cover health, pension, and unemployment is far too little so the rest has to come from general taxation.
In Germany, for example, healthcare insurance alone is 14%. Unemployment, pension, and even home care are extra.
Another thing that the Germans do very differently is the way they treat (and charge for) certain types of injury.
For example any injury caused by an assault will be charged in full to the assailant. The insurance will initially pick up the tab for treatment Etc. but will then chase the assailant through the courts to recover the cash, as the brother in law's stepson knows only too well.
A few years ago he was involved in a scuffle outside a nightclub and as a policeman tried to push him away, he pushed back and the cop fell over and broke a couple of fingers.
Cutting a very long story short. He finished up with a 71,000 euro debt which he is still paying monthly direct from his wages. At last count he still owes more than 50,000€ and will have to pay every cent no matter how long it takes.
Even people on benefits don't escape the rule. Should they be involved in a similar situation a punitive benefit cut will ensue.
Adopt that rule in Britain and it would save the NHS a small fortune, with the added benefit of cleaning up some of the "wild west saloons" that some town centre pubs have become.
be honest .... can you see the torys being prepared to raise personal taxes on earnings by 4-5% to bring it up to the german level of personal tax on earnings? it's what all realistic thinking people have been calling for since the torys cut taxes from those sorts of levels 30 years ago .... increase taxes to fund societies needs ... simple
Yes fine. Blame the Tory's (as usual) It may have escaped your notice but Britain had a Labour government (with a huge majority BTW) that did absolutely fuck all for the NHS in 13 years of power.
No sorry they did a lot actually. They managed to spunk billions on a vanity IT project that ultimately failed. They also spunked billions (good at spunking billions that lot) by turning it into a job creation scheme that put staff before patients. Last but far from least they gave the country PFI what a great idea that was NOT.
However the only way the NHS will survive is if both lots of fucking useless gullible politicians stop playing politics and the blame game and start trying to sort it out.
Maybe everybody will be happy when the NHS epitaph reads. "It was his fault, not mine".
But the result will still be the same.
despite your idealogical rant .... the fact still stands that the torys reduced personal tax on earnings by a third in their first 8 years of power in the 80's leaving health, public services and infrastructure in a state that they will never recover from unless they start to reverse all the tax cuts they implemented .... despite all realistic thinking people calling for this to happen, can you honestly see them doing that?
Tax is a robbery on the individual who earned it..
How else would you propose the government gain the cash to pay for you to (not) fit heaters and meters or essential central services such as healthcare or infrastructure?
-Matt
I'm all for paying my fair share of tax, which I have done since the day I left school in 1979, but let's be honest no government earned the income that they tax. Unfortunately personal taxation has now reached saturation point in the U.K.. we need to cut down on those claiming benefits who really shouldn't be. We need challange the likes PayPal google etc who don't pay a fair share in tax from the revenue they generate in the U.K. But hey something needs to fund exploration to Mars and the development of Tesla cars
Oh, indeed the UK govt need to crack down on corporations not paying their taxes here. This is why many have treated some of the reports of companies moving to the UK post-brexit with a dose of scepticism as in many cases they are moving for tax benefit reasons. Alas rather than actually tackle it, our government seem to be keen on turning us into a tax haven instead.
I'm also not sure what you mean by 'personal taxation has reached saturation point'. I think that the issue is the divide between the haves and have-nots is growing and the current government seem to have no problem in letting the 'haves' get the breaks, and the have-nots get penalised.
I think you need to put your thoughts of benefit fraud into perspective though. From figures a few months back, fraud represents just 1% of the annual benefits budget. It represents just 2% of the annual total fraud in the UK, compared to tax fraud at 69%:
http://www.cas.org.uk/features/myth-busting-real-figures-benefit-fraud
And yes, something does need to fund and encourage the development of alternate means of powering transport. That is why the government offer subsidies for electric vehicles. You see that as a bad thing I'm guessing from your tone above?
-Matt
"
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"I believe we can afford it
Me too.. But the nhs doesn't fit into tory ideology. Tbey won't openly destroy it but will nudge it that direction. Currently they are in the defunding stage. Cutting funding and also introduction of managers and systems that don't contribute to the nhs's primary function.
This makes it look as if its not fit for purpose, this is to get the public {the gullible ones) onside for it to be cut up and privatised.
No doubt insurance companies will be interested.. Possibly us paying for medical insurance and the if you claim for an accident or illness.. Look for excuses why your not covered..
"
Most of us already pay medical insurance its called NI contributions, let's not delude ourselves the NHS is not free service, unless of course you haven't or don't work. Its definitely free for them, many of whom could work but have a lifestyle choice and choose not to work. So burdening the rest of the population |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The N.H.S.just like pensions,and more importantly human rites,will become a thing of the past,the capitalist agenda of divide and rule will Perivale,can't you see?open your eyes |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"The N.H.S.just like pensions,and more importantly human rites,will become a thing of the past,the capitalist agenda of divide and rule will Perivale,can't you see?open your eyes"
Think it's near West Ruislip |
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"The N.H.S.just like pensions,and more importantly human rites,will become a thing of the past,the capitalist agenda of divide and rule will Perivale,can't you see?open your eyes
Think it's near West Ruislip "
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