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Are you pissed off yet?
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? " not heard that ? Yes I would be if that is the case ! | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? " Nope...it's not why I voted. | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? " Nope, it's a long game. Are you pissed off that the UK economy is doing well and will continue to do well after we've left the EU? | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope, it's a long game. Are you pissed off that the UK economy is doing well and will continue to do well after we've left the EU?"  | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope, it's a long game. Are you pissed off that the UK economy is doing well and will continue to do well after we've left the EU? "I'll take that as a yes | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope, it's a long game. Are you pissed off that the UK economy is doing well and will continue to do well after we've left the EU?
I'll take that as a yes"No, it's ridiculous. Remainers want the UK to be economically successful, that's why we voted to stay inside a massive trading block, instead of selling out our country for nonsense slogans about control, which maybe you will finally open your eyes and see as nonsense with news such as is mentioned in the OP. | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? " No and not surprised and should be expected | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope, it's a long game. Are you pissed off that the UK economy is doing well and will continue to do well after we've left the EU?
I'll take that as a yes
No, it's ridiculous. Remainers want the UK to be economically successful, that's why we voted to stay inside a massive trading block, instead of selling out our country for nonsense slogans about control, which maybe you will finally open your eyes and see as nonsense with news such as is mentioned in the OP."The slogans won the battle. Now it's time to go and win the war. | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope, it's a long game. Are you pissed off that the UK economy is doing well and will continue to do well after we've left the EU?
I'll take that as a yes
No, it's ridiculous. Remainers want the UK to be economically successful, that's why we voted to stay inside a massive trading block, instead of selling out our country for nonsense slogans about control, which maybe you will finally open your eyes and see as nonsense with news such as is mentioned in the OP.
The slogans won the battle. Now it's time to go and win the war."The war against prosperity and economic security? | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope, it's a long game. Are you pissed off that the UK economy is doing well and will continue to do well after we've left the EU?
I'll take that as a yes
No, it's ridiculous. Remainers want the UK to be economically successful, that's why we voted to stay inside a massive trading block, instead of selling out our country for nonsense slogans about control, which maybe you will finally open your eyes and see as nonsense with news such as is mentioned in the OP.
The slogans won the battle. Now it's time to go and win the war.
The war against prosperity and economic security? "no the war for prosperity,the war part is a silly red herring,pathetic in my view | |||
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"oh great ... the economy is fine ... gdp is brilliant the debt is paid, the deficit doesn't exist anymore, interest rates have normalised, inflation is below target, all public services are on budget and can even have injections of cash investment to future proof them, the housing crisis has abated, fixing the roof while the sun shines, austerity measures are resigned to history ..... utter fucking bollocks ... the economy is still utterly fucked ... the tories are as shit as anyone else has been at managing the economy ... their just a useless lying incompetant bunch of cock-wombling shit-gibbons" This. Especially the use of the phrase "cock-wombling shit-gibbons". -Matt | |||
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"It will be a lot longer than 5 years. We wont leave the Single Market and probably not the EU" Hope your wrong but it will take a hell of a lot more than two years that is certain,maybe 5/6 years it is a complex buisiness | |||
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"so the chance of a hung parliament implementing the final deal is a very real prospect then .... and that will probably result in nobody who voted in the referendum getting what they wanted .... what a fuck up this is turning out to be" I have though of this and you could well be right,could be chaos but lets hope not | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope, it's a long game. Are you pissed off that the UK economy is doing well and will continue to do well after we've left the EU?
I'll take that as a yes
No, it's ridiculous. Remainers want the UK to be economically successful, that's why we voted to stay inside a massive trading block, instead of selling out our country for nonsense slogans about control, which maybe you will finally open your eyes and see as nonsense with news such as is mentioned in the OP."The news mentioned above must mean things are expected to be fine else why would people come? Just admit you made a mistake and voted the wrong way. We won't laugh | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? " Nope, not why I voted. Anyway, these things take time. Didn't you know that? | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope, it's a long game. Are you pissed off that the UK economy is doing well and will continue to do well after we've left the EU?
I'll take that as a yes
No, it's ridiculous. Remainers want the UK to be economically successful, that's why we voted to stay inside a massive trading block, instead of selling out our country for nonsense slogans about control, which maybe you will finally open your eyes and see as nonsense with news such as is mentioned in the OP.
The news mentioned above must mean things are expected to be fine else why would people come? Just admit you made a mistake and voted the wrong way. We won't laugh"The rate of EU immigration has dropped significantly since the referendum. Maybe if May *completely* fucks up the country then she can get it down to the 10's of thousands that she promised before in her time as Home Sec. Then again, it has just been reported that leaked documents show she sabotaged the efforts to explain the benefits of migration during the campaign, who knows: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-immigration-benefits-report-cabinet-office-brexit-sabotaged-a7669181.html -Matt | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? " Nope I'm not in the slightest, so long as it comes with strings attached, like no recourse to benefits Medicare or housing, unless you are actually in work and the works pays you enough to be self sufficient | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope, it's a long game. Are you pissed off that the UK economy is doing well and will continue to do well after we've left the EU?
I'll take that as a yes
No, it's ridiculous. Remainers want the UK to be economically successful, that's why we voted to stay inside a massive trading block, instead of selling out our country for nonsense slogans about control, which maybe you will finally open your eyes and see as nonsense with news such as is mentioned in the OP.
The news mentioned above must mean things are expected to be fine else why would people come? Just admit you made a mistake and voted the wrong way. We won't laugh
The rate of EU immigration has dropped significantly since the referendum.
Maybe if May *completely* fucks up the country then she can get it down to the 10's of thousands that she promised before in her time as Home Sec.
Then again, it has just been reported that leaked documents show she sabotaged the efforts to explain the benefits of migration during the campaign, who knows:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-immigration-benefits-report-cabinet-office-brexit-sabotaged-a7669181.html
-Matt"Let's be honest, it's only the lower exchange rate which is keeping bob the builder in Poland, oh and all of the Ukraine workers who are now needing to return home from Poland | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope, it's a long game. Are you pissed off that the UK economy is doing well and will continue to do well after we've left the EU?
I'll take that as a yes
No, it's ridiculous. Remainers want the UK to be economically successful, that's why we voted to stay inside a massive trading block, instead of selling out our country for nonsense slogans about control, which maybe you will finally open your eyes and see as nonsense with news such as is mentioned in the OP.
The news mentioned above must mean things are expected to be fine else why would people come? Just admit you made a mistake and voted the wrong way. We won't laugh" | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope I'm not in the slightest, so long as it comes with strings attached, like no recourse to benefits Medicare or housing, unless you are actually in work and the works pays you enough to be self sufficient " Medicare???? This place gets more bizarre by the day. | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? " Nope, not in the slightest... Hope this response helps  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope, it's a long game. Are you pissed off that the UK economy is doing well and will continue to do well after we've left the EU?
I'll take that as a yes
No, it's ridiculous. Remainers want the UK to be economically successful, that's why we voted to stay inside a massive trading block, instead of selling out our country for nonsense slogans about control, which maybe you will finally open your eyes and see as nonsense with news such as is mentioned in the OP.
The news mentioned above must mean things are expected to be fine else why would people come? Just admit you made a mistake and voted the wrong way. We won't laugh
The rate of EU immigration has dropped significantly since the referendum.
Maybe if May *completely* fucks up the country then she can get it down to the 10's of thousands that she promised before in her time as Home Sec.
Then again, it has just been reported that leaked documents show she sabotaged the efforts to explain the benefits of migration during the campaign, who knows:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-immigration-benefits-report-cabinet-office-brexit-sabotaged-a7669181.html
-Matt"Why would May sabotage??...she was on the remain side. | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope I'm not in the slightest, so long as it comes with strings attached, like no recourse to benefits Medicare or housing, unless you are actually in work and the works pays you enough to be self sufficient Medicare???? This place gets more bizarre by the day." I think we can all agree that not 1 single immigrant to the UK will receive Medicare! | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope I'm not in the slightest, so long as it comes with strings attached, like no recourse to benefits Medicare or housing, unless you are actually in work and the works pays you enough to be self sufficient Medicare???? This place gets more bizarre by the day." Commonly called the over burdensome NHS | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope I'm not in the slightest, so long as it comes with strings attached, like no recourse to benefits Medicare or housing, unless you are actually in work and the works pays you enough to be self sufficient Medicare???? This place gets more bizarre by the day. I think we can all agree that not 1 single immigrant to the UK will receive Medicare! "I think Moreland actually meant Medical care,but if it suits your agenda to pick him up on it,so be it.I am off now to check my badger nets,I hope I,be caught one ,cos I,m starving | |||
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"it's britain ... just look at lynx aftershave ... they sell a line of products in africa ... it's called lynx england.... it smells of cigarettes and disappointment"  | |||
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"it's britain ... it's bound to be a fuck up .... it's what we do ... just look at lynx aftershave ... they sell a line of products in africa ... it's called lynx england.... it smells of cigarettes and disappointment" Yet still they come.. | |||
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"... and they find out england smells of cigarettes and diappointment " Only to those who want it to! | |||
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"... and they find out england smells of cigarettes and diappointment " And welfare. | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? " only 5 years? Don't be so sure, Jimmy Krankie of the Scottish party hasn't even started yet | |||
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"and southampton .... my bad, i already mentioned dissapointment" I don't get it? | |||
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"so the chance of a hung parliament implementing the final deal is a very real prospect then .... and that will probably result in nobody who voted in the referendum getting what they wanted .... what a fuck up this is turning out to be" Hung between who? Labour will be lucky to be the third largest party at the next election. SNP are maxed out bar three seats so not much room there. Limp Dims? Will probably come back somewhat, but even at their highest ever point not that high. UKIP.? Don't think so! Who is going to form this "coalition"? | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope, it's a long game. Are you pissed off that the UK economy is doing well and will continue to do well after we've left the EU?
I'll take that as a yes
No, it's ridiculous. Remainers want the UK to be economically successful, that's why we voted to stay inside a massive trading block, instead of selling out our country for nonsense slogans about control, which maybe you will finally open your eyes and see as nonsense with news such as is mentioned in the OP.
The news mentioned above must mean things are expected to be fine else why would people come? Just admit you made a mistake and voted the wrong way. We won't laugh
The rate of EU immigration has dropped significantly since the referendum.
Maybe if May *completely* fucks up the country then she can get it down to the 10's of thousands that she promised before in her time as Home Sec.
Then again, it has just been reported that leaked documents show she sabotaged the efforts to explain the benefits of migration during the campaign, who knows:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-immigration-benefits-report-cabinet-office-brexit-sabotaged-a7669181.html
-Matt
Why would May sabotage??...she was on the remain side."More fake news? | |||
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"and southampton .... my bad, i already mentioned dissapointment I don't get it?" what's new? | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope I'm not in the slightest, so long as it comes with strings attached, like no recourse to benefits Medicare or housing, unless you are actually in work and the works pays you enough to be self sufficient Medicare???? This place gets more bizarre by the day. I think we can all agree that not 1 single immigrant to the UK will receive Medicare! I think Moreland actually meant Medical care,but if it suits your agenda to pick him up on it,so be it.I am off now to check my badger nets,I hope I,be caught one ,cos I,m starving "I think they were actually referring to a part of the US healthcare system. If you aren't sure which system we have in this country, and the system they have in a completely different country I think that speaks to the level of knowledge in the subject area and lack of competence to engage in informed debate. | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope, it's a long game. Are you pissed off that the UK economy is doing well and will continue to do well after we've left the EU?
I'll take that as a yes
No, it's ridiculous. Remainers want the UK to be economically successful, that's why we voted to stay inside a massive trading block, instead of selling out our country for nonsense slogans about control, which maybe you will finally open your eyes and see as nonsense with news such as is mentioned in the OP.
The news mentioned above must mean things are expected to be fine else why would people come? Just admit you made a mistake and voted the wrong way. We won't laugh
The rate of EU immigration has dropped significantly since the referendum.
Maybe if May *completely* fucks up the country then she can get it down to the 10's of thousands that she promised before in her time as Home Sec.
Then again, it has just been reported that leaked documents show she sabotaged the efforts to explain the benefits of migration during the campaign, who knows:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-immigration-benefits-report-cabinet-office-brexit-sabotaged-a7669181.html
-Matt
Why would May sabotage??...she was on the remain side."And? She was Home Secretary and trying to reduce immigration down to the 10's of thousands as I said above. Don't you remember the vans she sent around with the deportation posters on? So despite her role as home sec and doing some pretty evil things in the name of it, I guess even she didn't think leaving the EU would help reduce immigration significantly. -Matt | |||
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"oh great ... the economy is fine ... gdp is brilliant the debt is paid, the deficit doesn't exist anymore, interest rates have normalised, inflation is below target, all public services are on budget and can even have injections of cash investment to future proof them, the housing crisis has abated, fixing the roof while the sun shines, austerity measures are resigned to history ..... utter fucking bollocks ... the economy is still utterly fucked ... the tories are as shit as anyone else has been at managing the economy ... their just a useless lying incompetant bunch of cock-wombling shit-gibbons" Can i ask who youd have instead because if you say jeremy corbyn you lose any credibility you had on this forum | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope, it's a long game. Are you pissed off that the UK economy is doing well and will continue to do well after we've left the EU?
I'll take that as a yes
No, it's ridiculous. Remainers want the UK to be economically successful, that's why we voted to stay inside a massive trading block, instead of selling out our country for nonsense slogans about control, which maybe you will finally open your eyes and see as nonsense with news such as is mentioned in the OP.
The news mentioned above must mean things are expected to be fine else why would people come? Just admit you made a mistake and voted the wrong way. We won't laugh
The rate of EU immigration has dropped significantly since the referendum.
Maybe if May *completely* fucks up the country then she can get it down to the 10's of thousands that she promised before in her time as Home Sec.
Then again, it has just been reported that leaked documents show she sabotaged the efforts to explain the benefits of migration during the campaign, who knows:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-immigration-benefits-report-cabinet-office-brexit-sabotaged-a7669181.html
-Matt
Why would May sabotage??...she was on the remain side.
And? She was Home Secretary and trying to reduce immigration down to the 10's of thousands as I said above. Don't you remember the vans she sent around with the deportation posters on? So despite her role as home sec and doing some pretty evil things in the name of it, I guess even she didn't think leaving the EU would help reduce immigration significantly.
-Matt"Remember she also wanted to breach two UN conventions to deny some children the right to an education? Nice lady. | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Nope, it's a long game. Are you pissed off that the UK economy is doing well and will continue to do well after we've left the EU?
I'll take that as a yes
No, it's ridiculous. Remainers want the UK to be economically successful, that's why we voted to stay inside a massive trading block, instead of selling out our country for nonsense slogans about control, which maybe you will finally open your eyes and see as nonsense with news such as is mentioned in the OP.
The news mentioned above must mean things are expected to be fine else why would people come? Just admit you made a mistake and voted the wrong way. We won't laugh
The rate of EU immigration has dropped significantly since the referendum.
Maybe if May *completely* fucks up the country then she can get it down to the 10's of thousands that she promised before in her time as Home Sec.
Then again, it has just been reported that leaked documents show she sabotaged the efforts to explain the benefits of migration during the campaign, who knows:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-immigration-benefits-report-cabinet-office-brexit-sabotaged-a7669181.html
-Matt
Why would May sabotage??...she was on the remain side.
More fake news?"Fake news is a shit term. Its just used by everyone with a different world view to try and brush aside a different groups argument. Read the article. Then decide whether the reporting is reliable or not based on the objective evidence provided. | |||
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"Why would May sabotage??...she was on the remain side. More fake news? Fake news is a shit term. Its just used by everyone with a different world view to try and brush aside a different groups argument. Read the article. Then decide whether the reporting is reliable or not based on the objective evidence provided. " Indeed. 'Fake news' has become a lazy catch-all term covering just about anything now. Originally it described the creation of news articles with no factual basis, in many cases reporting entirely fabricated events, with a view to deliberately mis-lead. ie. closer to the term 'propaganda'. But as you say, now it just seems to be thrown about by people who dislike the viewpoint of someone else, but without any evidence against that viewpoint. ie. just as a slur, or to discredit. One poster on here has started using the term 'intellectual dishonesty' in a similar fashion. It is intended to discredit the subject, but without actually proving anything. A bit like the playground retort of 'Yeah? Well you smell!' in response to losing an argument and having no further actual meaningful debate left. -Matt | |||
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"A transition period from unlimited free movement to a new system seems sensible. I would have thought those people with concerns about limiting migration would also be pleased that an approach was being suggested that minimised any negative impact. Isn't this the type of approach that was spoken about when asking for remain voters concerns being taken into account too?" To me (as a remain voter) it makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I don't see how you could have a hard cut-over date with things like this. Look at the disruption caused by Trump's travel ban. Whilst a bit different in that we are talking about a planned event, not something just sprung out of nowhere, a phased or transition approach is definitely needed. Especially if you need to give both individuals and businesses time to prepare and plan. -Matt | |||
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"A transition period from unlimited free movement to a new system seems sensible. I would have thought those people with concerns about limiting migration would also be pleased that an approach was being suggested that minimised any negative impact. Isn't this the type of approach that was spoken about when asking for remain voters concerns being taken into account too? To me (as a remain voter) it makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I don't see how you could have a hard cut-over date with things like this. Look at the disruption caused by Trump's travel ban. Whilst a bit different in that we are talking about a planned event, not something just sprung out of nowhere, a phased or transition approach is definitely needed. Especially if you need to give both individuals and businesses time to prepare and plan. -Matt" To most leave voters it makes a lot of sense and is the obvious and pretty much only way to go, which makes the question at the top of this thread rather childish and not just a little stupid | |||
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"and southampton .... my bad, i already mentioned dissapointment I don't get it? what's new?" Back to the playground with you. | |||
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"A transition period from unlimited free movement to a new system seems sensible. I would have thought those people with concerns about limiting migration would also be pleased that an approach was being suggested that minimised any negative impact. Isn't this the type of approach that was spoken about when asking for remain voters concerns being taken into account too? To me (as a remain voter) it makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I don't see how you could have a hard cut-over date with things like this. Look at the disruption caused by Trump's travel ban. Whilst a bit different in that we are talking about a planned event, not something just sprung out of nowhere, a phased or transition approach is definitely needed. Especially if you need to give both individuals and businesses time to prepare and plan. -Matt To most leave voters it makes a lot of sense and is the obvious and pretty much only way to go, which makes the question at the top of this thread rather childish and not just a little stupid" So if it makes a lot of sense, why wasn't it in any of the Leave campaign literature? I don't recall any high profile Leave campaigners calling for several years of transition agreements for immigration and saying how important that would be, do you? | |||
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"A transition period from unlimited free movement to a new system seems sensible. I would have thought those people with concerns about limiting migration would also be pleased that an approach was being suggested that minimised any negative impact. Isn't this the type of approach that was spoken about when asking for remain voters concerns being taken into account too? To me (as a remain voter) it makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I don't see how you could have a hard cut-over date with things like this. Look at the disruption caused by Trump's travel ban. Whilst a bit different in that we are talking about a planned event, not something just sprung out of nowhere, a phased or transition approach is definitely needed. Especially if you need to give both individuals and businesses time to prepare and plan. -Matt To most leave voters it makes a lot of sense and is the obvious and pretty much only way to go, which makes the question at the top of this thread rather childish and not just a little stupid" I don't know... I don't think so necessarily. Yes, it might have been a bit of a dig... but I've said a few times recently that if I was a leave voter I'd be pretty pissed off with the handling of all this, and couldn't see why more leave voters seemed to think it was all going well. This is just yet another thing that the leave campaign are having to walk back on. To be honest I'm starting to agree with those on here (Fille mainly) that Brexit might never actually happen. And to be honest, I'm not sure how I feel about that. No, I never wanted Brexit to happen.. but now we've done so much damage already, I feel if it were aborted that we'd end up in some half-way situation with neither side feeling vindicated. At least if we leave, then half the population can say that what they voted for happened. Not that I think that will be the reality, as I think it will be a massive cluster fuck and the leave voters will just turn around and blame everyone else for the problem, and each one with say that they voted for a different 'version' of leave to whatever happens. -Matt | |||
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"A transition period from unlimited free movement to a new system seems sensible. I would have thought those people with concerns about limiting migration would also be pleased that an approach was being suggested that minimised any negative impact. Isn't this the type of approach that was spoken about when asking for remain voters concerns being taken into account too? To me (as a remain voter) it makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I don't see how you could have a hard cut-over date with things like this. Look at the disruption caused by Trump's travel ban. Whilst a bit different in that we are talking about a planned event, not something just sprung out of nowhere, a phased or transition approach is definitely needed. Especially if you need to give both individuals and businesses time to prepare and plan. -Matt"
Hopefully, now the discussions will begin to turn to what actual solutions are best for the country, businesses and people.
The referendum is gone. Article 50 is invoked. There is no benefit to anyone in looking back in anger at the result. Now is the time to debate what solutions will work best. That will be the case on a range of issues. People can then choose to either sulk and stomp, or engage with that discussion and hopefully encourage it to be steered in a sensible pragmatic direction.
This will be the first of many, and it sounds as though a common sense approach is being followed. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A transition period from unlimited free movement to a new system seems sensible. I would have thought those people with concerns about limiting migration would also be pleased that an approach was being suggested that minimised any negative impact. Isn't this the type of approach that was spoken about when asking for remain voters concerns being taken into account too? To me (as a remain voter) it makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I don't see how you could have a hard cut-over date with things like this. Look at the disruption caused by Trump's travel ban. Whilst a bit different in that we are talking about a planned event, not something just sprung out of nowhere, a phased or transition approach is definitely needed. Especially if you need to give both individuals and businesses time to prepare and plan. -Matt
Hopefully, now the discussions will begin to turn to what actual solutions are best for the country, businesses and people.
The referendum is gone. Article 50 is invoked. There is no benefit to anyone in looking back in anger at the result. Now is the time to debate what solutions will work best. That will be the case on a range of issues. People can then choose to either sulk and stomp, or engage with that discussion and hopefully encourage it to be steered in a sensible pragmatic direction.
This will be the first of many, and it sounds as though a common sense approach is being followed."What happens if keeping free movement of people permanently is the best solution for people, businesses and the country? Would you support that? | |||
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"oh great ... the economy is fine ... gdp is brilliant the debt is paid, the deficit doesn't exist anymore, interest rates have normalised, inflation is below target, all public services are on budget and can even have injections of cash investment to future proof them, the housing crisis has abated, fixing the roof while the sun shines, austerity measures are resigned to history ..... utter fucking bollocks ... the economy is still utterly fucked ... the tories are as shit as anyone else has been at managing the economy ... their just a useless lying incompetant bunch of cock-wombling shit-gibbons" But fuck me have they got good pensions! ;-) S | |||
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"A transition period from unlimited free movement to a new system seems sensible. I would have thought those people with concerns about limiting migration would also be pleased that an approach was being suggested that minimised any negative impact. Isn't this the type of approach that was spoken about when asking for remain voters concerns being taken into account too? To me (as a remain voter) it makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I don't see how you could have a hard cut-over date with things like this. Look at the disruption caused by Trump's travel ban. Whilst a bit different in that we are talking about a planned event, not something just sprung out of nowhere, a phased or transition approach is definitely needed. Especially if you need to give both individuals and businesses time to prepare and plan. -Matt
Hopefully, now the discussions will begin to turn to what actual solutions are best for the country, businesses and people.
The referendum is gone. Article 50 is invoked. There is no benefit to anyone in looking back in anger at the result. Now is the time to debate what solutions will work best. That will be the case on a range of issues. People can then choose to either sulk and stomp, or engage with that discussion and hopefully encourage it to be steered in a sensible pragmatic direction.
This will be the first of many, and it sounds as though a common sense approach is being followed.
What happens if keeping free movement of people permanently is the best solution for people, businesses and the country? Would you support that? "Can you find any statement from any of the leave campaign that ever said they wanted ALL immigration stopped ? | |||
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"oh great ... the economy is fine ... gdp is brilliant the debt is paid, the deficit doesn't exist anymore, interest rates have normalised, inflation is below target, all public services are on budget and can even have injections of cash investment to future proof them, the housing crisis has abated, fixing the roof while the sun shines, austerity measures are resigned to history ..... utter fucking bollocks ... the economy is still utterly fucked ... the tories are as shit as anyone else has been at managing the economy ... their just a useless lying incompetant bunch of cock-wombling shit-gibbons But fuck me have they got good pensions! ;-) S" ooops .... typo ... i forgot to write "grasping, corrupt, self serviing" before cock-wombling | |||
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"A transition period from unlimited free movement to a new system seems sensible. I would have thought those people with concerns about limiting migration would also be pleased that an approach was being suggested that minimised any negative impact. Isn't this the type of approach that was spoken about when asking for remain voters concerns being taken into account too? To me (as a remain voter) it makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I don't see how you could have a hard cut-over date with things like this. Look at the disruption caused by Trump's travel ban. Whilst a bit different in that we are talking about a planned event, not something just sprung out of nowhere, a phased or transition approach is definitely needed. Especially if you need to give both individuals and businesses time to prepare and plan. -Matt
Hopefully, now the discussions will begin to turn to what actual solutions are best for the country, businesses and people.
The referendum is gone. Article 50 is invoked. There is no benefit to anyone in looking back in anger at the result. Now is the time to debate what solutions will work best. That will be the case on a range of issues. People can then choose to either sulk and stomp, or engage with that discussion and hopefully encourage it to be steered in a sensible pragmatic direction.
This will be the first of many, and it sounds as though a common sense approach is being followed.
What happens if keeping free movement of people permanently is the best solution for people, businesses and the country? Would you support that?
Can you find any statement from any of the leave campaign that ever said they wanted ALL immigration stopped ? "Pretty sure all they harped on about was an Aussie style points system wasn't it? S | |||
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"A transition period from unlimited free movement to a new system seems sensible. I would have thought those people with concerns about limiting migration would also be pleased that an approach was being suggested that minimised any negative impact. Isn't this the type of approach that was spoken about when asking for remain voters concerns being taken into account too? To me (as a remain voter) it makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I don't see how you could have a hard cut-over date with things like this. Look at the disruption caused by Trump's travel ban. Whilst a bit different in that we are talking about a planned event, not something just sprung out of nowhere, a phased or transition approach is definitely needed. Especially if you need to give both individuals and businesses time to prepare and plan. -Matt
Hopefully, now the discussions will begin to turn to what actual solutions are best for the country, businesses and people.
The referendum is gone. Article 50 is invoked. There is no benefit to anyone in looking back in anger at the result. Now is the time to debate what solutions will work best. That will be the case on a range of issues. People can then choose to either sulk and stomp, or engage with that discussion and hopefully encourage it to be steered in a sensible pragmatic direction.
This will be the first of many, and it sounds as though a common sense approach is being followed.
What happens if keeping free movement of people permanently is the best solution for people, businesses and the country? Would you support that?
Can you find any statement from any of the leave campaign that ever said they wanted ALL immigration stopped ?
Pretty sure all they harped on about was an Aussie style points system wasn't it?
S"You mean the system that Australia introduced to *increase* immigration as they had a shortage of skilled workers there? But yes, you are right, Vote leave walked back their hardline stance pretty much the day after the results with Hannan saying: “Frankly, if people watching think that they have voted and there is now going to be zero immigration from the EU, they are going to be disappointed.” Alas the rise in hate-crimes relating to race after the vote seems to indicate that immigration was indeed a factor for many people. And quite clear that 'control our borders' was just a dog whistle meme to the racists to hide behind. -Matt | |||
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"A transition period from unlimited free movement to a new system seems sensible. I would have thought those people with concerns about limiting migration would also be pleased that an approach was being suggested that minimised any negative impact. Isn't this the type of approach that was spoken about when asking for remain voters concerns being taken into account too? To me (as a remain voter) it makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I don't see how you could have a hard cut-over date with things like this. Look at the disruption caused by Trump's travel ban. Whilst a bit different in that we are talking about a planned event, not something just sprung out of nowhere, a phased or transition approach is definitely needed. Especially if you need to give both individuals and businesses time to prepare and plan. -Matt
Hopefully, now the discussions will begin to turn to what actual solutions are best for the country, businesses and people.
The referendum is gone. Article 50 is invoked. There is no benefit to anyone in looking back in anger at the result. Now is the time to debate what solutions will work best. That will be the case on a range of issues. People can then choose to either sulk and stomp, or engage with that discussion and hopefully encourage it to be steered in a sensible pragmatic direction.
This will be the first of many, and it sounds as though a common sense approach is being followed.
What happens if keeping free movement of people permanently is the best solution for people, businesses and the country? Would you support that?
Can you find any statement from any of the leave campaign that ever said they wanted ALL immigration stopped ?
Pretty sure all they harped on about was an Aussie style points system wasn't it?
S
You mean the system that Australia introduced to *increase* immigration as they had a shortage of skilled workers there?
But yes, you are right, Vote leave walked back their hardline stance pretty much the day after the results with Hannan saying: “Frankly, if people watching think that they have voted and there is now going to be zero immigration from the EU, they are going to be disappointed.”
Alas the rise in hate-crimes relating to race after the vote seems to indicate that immigration was indeed a factor for many people. And quite clear that 'control our borders' was just a dog whistle meme to the racists to hide behind.
-Matt"Agreed, my dad voted leave mainly on the issue of immigration, and because he has always wanted reformation in the EU to make it more transparent and democratically accountable. His view was that it was beyond reform. Still, he voted leave on immigration to bring it down, not from specific nations but in general. However he hates that this false promise of "bring whoever we need in and no more" that is now apparent, he also had no intention for his leave vote to be to leave the single market. He was hoping we would go the way of Norway or Switzerland, chipping in to keep access to the single market. Basically, he has said openly that the leave camp was a huge crock of shite, didn't have a united plan, and misled different groups for their own gain. Typical politics. | |||
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"... and they find out england smells of cigarettes and diappointment " So instead of going back or finding somewhere that smells close to rabid shit holes that many of them originated from they choose to stay | |||
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"oh great ... the economy is fine ... gdp is brilliant the debt is paid, the deficit doesn't exist anymore, interest rates have normalised, inflation is below target, all public services are on budget and can even have injections of cash investment to future proof them, the housing crisis has abated, fixing the roof while the sun shines, austerity measures are resigned to history ..... utter fucking bollocks ... the economy is still utterly fucked ... the tories are as shit as anyone else has been at managing the economy ... their just a useless lying incompetant bunch of cock-wombling shit-gibbons But fuck me have they got good pensions! ;-) S"
The Kinnocks are the grand masters at this, and have a whole dynasty wrapped up in fat of the EU, whilst constantly making out they know all about poverty and struggle...And yet the welsh keep re-electing these expenses benefit cash sucking twats | |||
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"A transition period from unlimited free movement to a new system seems sensible. I would have thought those people with concerns about limiting migration would also be pleased that an approach was being suggested that minimised any negative impact. Isn't this the type of approach that was spoken about when asking for remain voters concerns being taken into account too? To me (as a remain voter) it makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I don't see how you could have a hard cut-over date with things like this. Look at the disruption caused by Trump's travel ban. Whilst a bit different in that we are talking about a planned event, not something just sprung out of nowhere, a phased or transition approach is definitely needed. Especially if you need to give both individuals and businesses time to prepare and plan. -Matt
Hopefully, now the discussions will begin to turn to what actual solutions are best for the country, businesses and people.
The referendum is gone. Article 50 is invoked. There is no benefit to anyone in looking back in anger at the result. Now is the time to debate what solutions will work best. That will be the case on a range of issues. People can then choose to either sulk and stomp, or engage with that discussion and hopefully encourage it to be steered in a sensible pragmatic direction.
This will be the first of many, and it sounds as though a common sense approach is being followed." | |||
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"... and they find out england smells of cigarettes and diappointment So instead of going back or finding somewhere that smells close to rabid shit holes that many of them originated from they choose to stay " You must not be a big fan of international travel if you think the rest of the world outside the UK is a "rabid shit hole" Maybe you should get a better travel agent? | |||
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"A transition period from unlimited free movement to a new system seems sensible. I would have thought those people with concerns about limiting migration would also be pleased that an approach was being suggested that minimised any negative impact. Isn't this the type of approach that was spoken about when asking for remain voters concerns being taken into account too? To me (as a remain voter) it makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I don't see how you could have a hard cut-over date with things like this. Look at the disruption caused by Trump's travel ban. Whilst a bit different in that we are talking about a planned event, not something just sprung out of nowhere, a phased or transition approach is definitely needed. Especially if you need to give both individuals and businesses time to prepare and plan. -Matt
Hopefully, now the discussions will begin to turn to what actual solutions are best for the country, businesses and people.
The referendum is gone. Article 50 is invoked. There is no benefit to anyone in looking back in anger at the result. Now is the time to debate what solutions will work best. That will be the case on a range of issues. People can then choose to either sulk and stomp, or engage with that discussion and hopefully encourage it to be steered in a sensible pragmatic direction.
This will be the first of many, and it sounds as though a common sense approach is being followed.
What happens if keeping free movement of people permanently is the best solution for people, businesses and the country? Would you support that?
Can you find any statement from any of the leave campaign that ever said they wanted ALL immigration stopped ?
Pretty sure all they harped on about was an Aussie style points system wasn't it?
S
You mean the system that Australia introduced to *increase* immigration as they had a shortage of skilled workers there?
But yes, you are right, Vote leave walked back their hardline stance pretty much the day after the results with Hannan saying: “Frankly, if people watching think that they have voted and there is now going to be zero immigration from the EU, they are going to be disappointed.”
Alas the rise in hate-crimes relating to race after the vote seems to indicate that immigration was indeed a factor for many people. And quite clear that 'control our borders' was just a dog whistle meme to the racists to hide behind.
-Matt"Like the pied piper of Bristol,Matt the flutist | |||
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"Zero immigration wtf as anyone ever said that's wot they wanted yr the one peddling bull shit Ffs " Who has talked about zero immigration? I don't that that has been suggested by either side ever. -Matt | |||
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"A transition period from unlimited free movement to a new system seems sensible. I would have thought those people with concerns about limiting migration would also be pleased that an approach was being suggested that minimised any negative impact. Isn't this the type of approach that was spoken about when asking for remain voters concerns being taken into account too? To me (as a remain voter) it makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I don't see how you could have a hard cut-over date with things like this. Look at the disruption caused by Trump's travel ban. Whilst a bit different in that we are talking about a planned event, not something just sprung out of nowhere, a phased or transition approach is definitely needed. Especially if you need to give both individuals and businesses time to prepare and plan. -Matt
Hopefully, now the discussions will begin to turn to what actual solutions are best for the country, businesses and people.
The referendum is gone. Article 50 is invoked. There is no benefit to anyone in looking back in anger at the result. Now is the time to debate what solutions will work best. That will be the case on a range of issues. People can then choose to either sulk and stomp, or engage with that discussion and hopefully encourage it to be steered in a sensible pragmatic direction.
This will be the first of many, and it sounds as though a common sense approach is being followed.
What happens if keeping free movement of people permanently is the best solution for people, businesses and the country? Would you support that?
Can you find any statement from any of the leave campaign that ever said they wanted ALL immigration stopped ?
Pretty sure all they harped on about was an Aussie style points system wasn't it?
S
You mean the system that Australia introduced to *increase* immigration as they had a shortage of skilled workers there?
But yes, you are right, Vote leave walked back their hardline stance pretty much the day after the results with Hannan saying: “Frankly, if people watching think that they have voted and there is now going to be zero immigration from the EU, they are going to be disappointed.”
Alas the rise in hate-crimes relating to race after the vote seems to indicate that immigration was indeed a factor for many people. And quite clear that 'control our borders' was just a dog whistle meme to the racists to hide behind.
-MattLike the pied piper of Bristol,Matt the flutist "Lol. Run out of any actual arguments then? -Matt | |||
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"... and they find out england smells of cigarettes and diappointment So instead of going back or finding somewhere that smells close to rabid shit holes that many of them originated from they choose to stay You must not be a big fan of international travel if you think the rest of the world outside the UK is a "rabid shit hole" Maybe you should get a better travel agent? Let me see, America east west coast gulf and Caribbean, yep that's been done Diving in the Caribbean skiing in the Catskill mountains and the sierra nevadas Done that Skiing in USA Spain France Italy Germany Austria Bulgaria Switzerland, but must say livigno in Italy will always be my fave. Sailing Lago Como, cycling wine tasting Lago Garda so so nice, and anything Italian is alwAys a bonus. Diving in Egypt, amazing diving but generally speaking lots of the country can only be described as an open sewer. Morroco and the mountains is actually the best and nicest Muslim country that I have been to. The Gambia really liked it, loved swimming with wild dolphins Sardinia, argh Italy once again amazing micro beaches fabulous food Tunisia shit hole open sewer Mexico superb diving with sharks great accommodation, fab food but the beer is awful. Spain Majorca and al, the interior amazing times, some of it is blackpool with sun, but city's like Seville are truly stunning. I adore Palma and the swinging fun in Gran Canary during winter is great with fabulous clubs. Ireland is ok, fun times to be had, love the beaches in wales, but the rain is a downer Lithuania has great food and has made huge strides since the cold days of communism Turkey is OK but I can't stand the constant harassment, and wouldn't go there again Adore Belgium and the beer, will be there in a couple of weeks time France is OK, but much of it shuts up way to early although I like Perone and Arras, and will be Cap D'Adge in July I could go, on about the other countries I've visited, but why bother, and as for a better travel agent, I prefer to plan my life my self Just need to plan where to go in September, I mean after all it will be the 6th holiday this year funded by a capitalist self earned lifestyle " And you still think that all of those places are "rabid shit holes" to use your own words. Maybe you need to change your attitude rather than your travel agent then. | |||
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"... and they find out england smells of cigarettes and diappointment So instead of going back or finding somewhere that smells close to rabid shit holes that many of them originated from they choose to stay You must not be a big fan of international travel if you think the rest of the world outside the UK is a "rabid shit hole" Maybe you should get a better travel agent? Let me see, America east west coast gulf and Caribbean, yep that's been done Diving in the Caribbean skiing in the Catskill mountains and the sierra nevadas Done that Skiing in USA Spain France Italy Germany Austria Bulgaria Switzerland, but must say livigno in Italy will always be my fave. Sailing Lago Como, cycling wine tasting Lago Garda so so nice, and anything Italian is alwAys a bonus. Diving in Egypt, amazing diving but generally speaking lots of the country can only be described as an open sewer. Morroco and the mountains is actually the best and nicest Muslim country that I have been to. The Gambia really liked it, loved swimming with wild dolphins Sardinia, argh Italy once again amazing micro beaches fabulous food Tunisia shit hole open sewer Mexico superb diving with sharks great accommodation, fab food but the beer is awful. Spain Majorca and al, the interior amazing times, some of it is blackpool with sun, but city's like Seville are truly stunning. I adore Palma and the swinging fun in Gran Canary during winter is great with fabulous clubs. Ireland is ok, fun times to be had, love the beaches in wales, but the rain is a downer Lithuania has great food and has made huge strides since the cold days of communism Turkey is OK but I can't stand the constant harassment, and wouldn't go there again Adore Belgium and the beer, will be there in a couple of weeks time France is OK, but much of it shuts up way to early although I like Perone and Arras, and will be Cap D'Adge in July I could go, on about the other countries I've visited, but why bother, and as for a better travel agent, I prefer to plan my life my self Just need to plan where to go in September, I mean after all it will be the 6th holiday this year funded by a capitalist self earned lifestyle And you still think that all of those places are "rabid shit holes" to use your own words. Maybe you need to change your attitude rather than your travel agent then." xenophobia creates warped views of the outside world. .Usually travel broadens the mind.It did with me anyway.  | |||
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"badgers are ok ... it's the gogs that need gasing " | |||
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"It was in yr own post read it back lol" That directed at me? Hard to tell as a few threads within this one. If so, I've had a read back and I've not said anything about zero immigration. -Matt | |||
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"I sed if ppl voted thinking they were going to get zero immigration they need to think again but who do u think thort that ??? " No idea who thought it. Obviously I didn't. But considering May's target has been to get net immigration down to a tenth of what it currently is, I think we can safely say that 'control our borders' was a euphemism for lowering immigration. Especially when you look at the Vote Leave TV ads they ran. Quite clearly they were promoting the idea that leaving the EU would reduce the net migration number significantly. -Matt | |||
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" The Kinnocks are the grand masters at this, and have a whole dynasty wrapped up in fat of the EU, whilst constantly making out they know all about poverty and struggle...And yet the welsh keep re-electing these expenses benefit cash sucking twats" The Welsh masses will vote for anyone wearing a red rosette though | |||
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" The Kinnocks are the grand masters at this, and have a whole dynasty wrapped up in fat of the EU, whilst constantly making out they know all about poverty and struggle...And yet the welsh keep re-electing these expenses benefit cash sucking twats The Welsh masses will vote for anyone wearing a red rosette though" Except in the recent Eu elections when they went for a bunch of 2nd rate ex tories now in ukip .. Slowly diminishing .. | |||
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"I think most of the leavers wanted lower immigration not zero tho but remainers sadly will not AV any of that " Then why are the Leavers on here saying how wonderful it is that we are going to have freedom of movement for years after we have left then? | |||
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"I think most of the leavers wanted lower immigration not zero tho but remainers sadly will not AV any of that Then why are the Leavers on here saying how wonderful it is that we are going to have freedom of movement for years after we have left then? " Who's called it wonderful? But we'll need a few years to train people won't we? Did you expect a sudden cut off overnight, because I don't think anyone else did | |||
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"Most people in the country want a smooth transnational exit from the EU, whatever they voted. Some people, notably some on here relish the idea of things going wrong and appear to spend their days looking for stories to post on here. I have yet to see any of those posters start a thread with a positive suggestion of what they would like to see in the negotiations." 1. Not leaving the EU. 2. If we do, remaining in the single market, customs union, euratom, ecj, erasmus, horizon 2020. All these are positive, good things to be a part of. | |||
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"Most people in the country want a smooth transnational exit from the EU, whatever they voted. Some people, notably some on here relish the idea of things going wrong and appear to spend their days looking for stories to post on here. I have yet to see any of those posters start a thread with a positive suggestion of what they would like to see in the negotiations. 1. Not leaving the EU. 2. If we do, remaining in the single market, customs union, euratom, ecj, erasmus, horizon 2020. All these are positive, good things to be a part of. " 1. Think there was a vote about that last year. 2. Unlikely. I mean positive ideas that are achievable and allay some of your doubts, yet maintain the spirit of leaving. | |||
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"I think most of the leavers wanted lower immigration not zero tho but remainers sadly will not AV any of that " As a remainer, personally I want to retain freedom of movement as I think it is beneficial to the UK both economically and culturally. And I think the reciprocal benefit of U.K. citizens being able to live and work freely in the EU outweighs any perceived negatives. I don't recal any leavers asking for zero immigration. But as I quoted above Daniel Hannan, a notable leave campaigner went on the record the day after the referendum to say that those who voted to leave for zero immigration will be sorely disappointed, so clearly he thought it must have been the opinion of some people. Bearing in mind this was also the guy who advocated for a Norway style relationship and said we should remain in the single market and customs union. But the rabid leavers on here will tell you that was never the plan. Of course, you've still not clarified if you thought it was me talking bullshit about zero immigration when I quoted Hannan above. -Matt Ps. 'Have' not AV. Your posts are very difficult to understand. | |||
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"I agree totaly with bumandbuck and Matt I use txt spear on here is that ok with u it took me long enuf to fucking learn it I AV teenage kids lol " Well done. -Matt | |||
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"I think most of the leavers wanted lower immigration not zero tho but remainers sadly will not AV any of that As a remainer, personally I want to retain freedom of movement as I think it is beneficial to the UK both economically and culturally. And I think the reciprocal benefit of U.K. citizens being able to live and work freely in the EU outweighs any perceived negatives. I don't recal any leavers asking for zero immigration. But as I quoted above Daniel Hannan, a notable leave campaigner went on the record the day after the referendum to say that those who voted to leave for zero immigration will be sorely disappointed, so clearly he thought it must have been the opinion of some people. Bearing in mind this was also the guy who advocated for a Norway style relationship and said we should remain in the single market and customs union. But the rabid leavers on here will tell you that was never the plan. Of course, you've still not clarified if you thought it was me talking bullshit about zero immigration when I quoted Hannan above. -Matt Ps. 'Have' not AV. Your posts are very difficult to understand. " 1st September 2016. Daniel Hannan: "Repeat after me. Single market membership and single market access are not the same thing." | |||
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"I think most of the leavers wanted lower immigration not zero tho but remainers sadly will not AV any of that As a remainer, personally I want to retain freedom of movement as I think it is beneficial to the UK both economically and culturally. And I think the reciprocal benefit of U.K. citizens being able to live and work freely in the EU outweighs any perceived negatives. I don't recal any leavers asking for zero immigration. But as I quoted above Daniel Hannan, a notable leave campaigner went on the record the day after the referendum to say that those who voted to leave for zero immigration will be sorely disappointed, so clearly he thought it must have been the opinion of some people. Bearing in mind this was also the guy who advocated for a Norway style relationship and said we should remain in the single market and customs union. But the rabid leavers on here will tell you that was never the plan. Of course, you've still not clarified if you thought it was me talking bullshit about zero immigration when I quoted Hannan above. -Matt Ps. 'Have' not AV. Your posts are very difficult to understand. 1st September 2016. Daniel Hannan: "Repeat after me. Single market membership and single market access are not the same thing."" The IFS described access to the trade zone as ‘meaningless as a concept’. "Any country in the World Trade Organisation – from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe – has ‘access’ to the EU as an export destination" So you want the same relationship with the EU as Afghanistan and Zimbabwe? | |||
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"I think most of the leavers wanted lower immigration not zero tho but remainers sadly will not AV any of that As a remainer, personally I want to retain freedom of movement as I think it is beneficial to the UK both economically and culturally. And I think the reciprocal benefit of U.K. citizens being able to live and work freely in the EU outweighs any perceived negatives. I don't recal any leavers asking for zero immigration. But as I quoted above Daniel Hannan, a notable leave campaigner went on the record the day after the referendum to say that those who voted to leave for zero immigration will be sorely disappointed, so clearly he thought it must have been the opinion of some people. Bearing in mind this was also the guy who advocated for a Norway style relationship and said we should remain in the single market and customs union. But the rabid leavers on here will tell you that was never the plan. Of course, you've still not clarified if you thought it was me talking bullshit about zero immigration when I quoted Hannan above. -Matt Ps. 'Have' not AV. Your posts are very difficult to understand. 1st September 2016. Daniel Hannan: "Repeat after me. Single market membership and single market access are not the same thing." The IFS described access to the trade zone as ‘meaningless as a concept’. "Any country in the World Trade Organisation – from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe – has ‘access’ to the EU as an export destination" So you want the same relationship with the EU as Afghanistan and Zimbabwe? " Who else has that access? Oh, USA, India, China..... | |||
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"I think most of the leavers wanted lower immigration not zero tho but remainers sadly will not AV any of that As a remainer, personally I want to retain freedom of movement as I think it is beneficial to the UK both economically and culturally. And I think the reciprocal benefit of U.K. citizens being able to live and work freely in the EU outweighs any perceived negatives. I don't recal any leavers asking for zero immigration. But as I quoted above Daniel Hannan, a notable leave campaigner went on the record the day after the referendum to say that those who voted to leave for zero immigration will be sorely disappointed, so clearly he thought it must have been the opinion of some people. Bearing in mind this was also the guy who advocated for a Norway style relationship and said we should remain in the single market and customs union. But the rabid leavers on here will tell you that was never the plan. Of course, you've still not clarified if you thought it was me talking bullshit about zero immigration when I quoted Hannan above. -Matt Ps. 'Have' not AV. Your posts are very difficult to understand. 1st September 2016. Daniel Hannan: "Repeat after me. Single market membership and single market access are not the same thing." The IFS described access to the trade zone as ‘meaningless as a concept’. "Any country in the World Trade Organisation – from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe – has ‘access’ to the EU as an export destination" So you want the same relationship with the EU as Afghanistan and Zimbabwe? " Wouldn't know what that is. So we'll settle for the same access we have now | |||
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"I think most of the leavers wanted lower immigration not zero tho but remainers sadly will not AV any of that As a remainer, personally I want to retain freedom of movement as I think it is beneficial to the UK both economically and culturally. And I think the reciprocal benefit of U.K. citizens being able to live and work freely in the EU outweighs any perceived negatives. I don't recal any leavers asking for zero immigration. But as I quoted above Daniel Hannan, a notable leave campaigner went on the record the day after the referendum to say that those who voted to leave for zero immigration will be sorely disappointed, so clearly he thought it must have been the opinion of some people. Bearing in mind this was also the guy who advocated for a Norway style relationship and said we should remain in the single market and customs union. But the rabid leavers on here will tell you that was never the plan. Of course, you've still not clarified if you thought it was me talking bullshit about zero immigration when I quoted Hannan above. -Matt Ps. 'Have' not AV. Your posts are very difficult to understand. 1st September 2016. Daniel Hannan: "Repeat after me. Single market membership and single market access are not the same thing." The IFS described access to the trade zone as ‘meaningless as a concept’. "Any country in the World Trade Organisation – from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe – has ‘access’ to the EU as an export destination" So you want the same relationship with the EU as Afghanistan and Zimbabwe? " I was also making the point that he did NOT say we should stay in the single market. | |||
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"I think most of the leavers wanted lower immigration not zero tho but remainers sadly will not AV any of that As a remainer, personally I want to retain freedom of movement as I think it is beneficial to the UK both economically and culturally. And I think the reciprocal benefit of U.K. citizens being able to live and work freely in the EU outweighs any perceived negatives. I don't recal any leavers asking for zero immigration. But as I quoted above Daniel Hannan, a notable leave campaigner went on the record the day after the referendum to say that those who voted to leave for zero immigration will be sorely disappointed, so clearly he thought it must have been the opinion of some people. Bearing in mind this was also the guy who advocated for a Norway style relationship and said we should remain in the single market and customs union. But the rabid leavers on here will tell you that was never the plan. Of course, you've still not clarified if you thought it was me talking bullshit about zero immigration when I quoted Hannan above. -Matt Ps. 'Have' not AV. Your posts are very difficult to understand. 1st September 2016. Daniel Hannan: "Repeat after me. Single market membership and single market access are not the same thing." The IFS described access to the trade zone as ‘meaningless as a concept’. "Any country in the World Trade Organisation – from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe – has ‘access’ to the EU as an export destination" So you want the same relationship with the EU as Afghanistan and Zimbabwe? I was also making the point that he did NOT say we should stay in the single market. " "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market" Daniel Hannan MEP | |||
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"I think most of the leavers wanted lower immigration not zero tho but remainers sadly will not AV any of that As a remainer, personally I want to retain freedom of movement as I think it is beneficial to the UK both economically and culturally. And I think the reciprocal benefit of U.K. citizens being able to live and work freely in the EU outweighs any perceived negatives. I don't recal any leavers asking for zero immigration. But as I quoted above Daniel Hannan, a notable leave campaigner went on the record the day after the referendum to say that those who voted to leave for zero immigration will be sorely disappointed, so clearly he thought it must have been the opinion of some people. Bearing in mind this was also the guy who advocated for a Norway style relationship and said we should remain in the single market and customs union. But the rabid leavers on here will tell you that was never the plan. Of course, you've still not clarified if you thought it was me talking bullshit about zero immigration when I quoted Hannan above. -Matt Ps. 'Have' not AV. Your posts are very difficult to understand. 1st September 2016. Daniel Hannan: "Repeat after me. Single market membership and single market access are not the same thing." The IFS described access to the trade zone as ‘meaningless as a concept’. "Any country in the World Trade Organisation – from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe – has ‘access’ to the EU as an export destination" So you want the same relationship with the EU as Afghanistan and Zimbabwe? I was also making the point that he did NOT say we should stay in the single market. "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market" Daniel Hannan MEP" What does 'place' mean? | |||
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"In short, vote leave and the govt can't make their mind up at all and have conned the voters. In her 'great' speech May said: "Both sides in the referendum campaign made it clear that a vote to leave the EU would be a vote to leave the Single Market." Which is bollocks as shown from Hannan's quote above. And if that isn't enough here are a few more quotes from prominent leavers saying about our relationship with the single market: "Only a madman would actually leave the market" - Owen Paterson, Tory Vote Leave campaigner "There's a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and Britain will still be part of it after we vote leave." - Chris Grayling, Tory Brexit campaigner and current member of Theresa May's own cabinet! "There is no question about it, Britain will still have access to the single market after we vote leave" - Matthew Elliot, chief executive of the Vote Leave campaign "Britain will stay in the single market whatever happens" - Pete North, pro-Brexit blogger "Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK" - Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder and massive UKIP bankroller "Wouldn’t it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They’re rich. They’re happy. They’re self-governing" - Nigel Farage, Leave.EU campaigner and UKIP leader at the time "Norway, Switzerland, all of these countries have complete free trade with the EU, and by the way, I can't help noticing that they're doing pretty well." - Daniel Hannan, Tory Vote Leave campaigner And you really want to squirm out of it by arguing the definition of 'our place'? Seriously? I guess when this all blows up leavers will be arguing the definition of 'leave' just to save face. -Matt " None of those quotes say that we should remain a member of the single market. To be a full member you have to be a member of the EU as well you know. Its been covered often enough | |||
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"In short, vote leave and the govt can't make their mind up at all and have conned the voters. In her 'great' speech May said: "Both sides in the referendum campaign made it clear that a vote to leave the EU would be a vote to leave the Single Market." Which is bollocks as shown from Hannan's quote above. And if that isn't enough here are a few more quotes from prominent leavers saying about our relationship with the single market: "Only a madman would actually leave the market" - Owen Paterson, Tory Vote Leave campaigner "There's a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and Britain will still be part of it after we vote leave." - Chris Grayling, Tory Brexit campaigner and current member of Theresa May's own cabinet! "There is no question about it, Britain will still have access to the single market after we vote leave" - Matthew Elliot, chief executive of the Vote Leave campaign "Britain will stay in the single market whatever happens" - Pete North, pro-Brexit blogger "Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK" - Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder and massive UKIP bankroller "Wouldn’t it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They’re rich. They’re happy. They’re self-governing" - Nigel Farage, Leave.EU campaigner and UKIP leader at the time "Norway, Switzerland, all of these countries have complete free trade with the EU, and by the way, I can't help noticing that they're doing pretty well." - Daniel Hannan, Tory Vote Leave campaigner And you really want to squirm out of it by arguing the definition of 'our place'? Seriously? I guess when this all blows up leavers will be arguing the definition of 'leave' just to save face. -Matt None of those quotes say that we should remain a member of the single market. To be a full member you have to be a member of the EU as well you know. Its been covered often enough " You take those quotes and put them in front of the average person in the street and let me know whether they think they are suggesting we would remain a part of the single market or not if we left the EU. You can twist and squirm and redefine words all you like. It is very clear that the intent there is that the UK would still retain the benefits we currently have of trade within the EU. I strongly believe that a large number of voters voted leave on the understanding that we could retain those trade benefits and/or that free movement of people would be stopped. They have been conned. -Matt | |||
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"In short, vote leave and the govt can't make their mind up at all and have conned the voters. In her 'great' speech May said: "Both sides in the referendum campaign made it clear that a vote to leave the EU would be a vote to leave the Single Market." Which is bollocks as shown from Hannan's quote above. And if that isn't enough here are a few more quotes from prominent leavers saying about our relationship with the single market: "Only a madman would actually leave the market" - Owen Paterson, Tory Vote Leave campaigner "There's a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and Britain will still be part of it after we vote leave." - Chris Grayling, Tory Brexit campaigner and current member of Theresa May's own cabinet! "There is no question about it, Britain will still have access to the single market after we vote leave" - Matthew Elliot, chief executive of the Vote Leave campaign "Britain will stay in the single market whatever happens" - Pete North, pro-Brexit blogger "Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK" - Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder and massive UKIP bankroller "Wouldn’t it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They’re rich. They’re happy. They’re self-governing" - Nigel Farage, Leave.EU campaigner and UKIP leader at the time "Norway, Switzerland, all of these countries have complete free trade with the EU, and by the way, I can't help noticing that they're doing pretty well." - Daniel Hannan, Tory Vote Leave campaigner And you really want to squirm out of it by arguing the definition of 'our place'? Seriously? I guess when this all blows up leavers will be arguing the definition of 'leave' just to save face. -Matt None of those quotes say that we should remain a member of the single market. To be a full member you have to be a member of the EU as well you know. Its been covered often enough You take those quotes and put them in front of the average person in the street and let me know whether they think they are suggesting we would remain a part of the single market or not if we left the EU. You can twist and squirm and redefine words all you like. It is very clear that the intent there is that the UK would still retain the benefits we currently have of trade within the EU. I strongly believe that a large number of voters voted leave on the understanding that we could retain those trade benefits and/or that free movement of people would be stopped. They have been conned. -Matt" We will retain those trade benfits without free movement along with the benefits of being out of the customs union. You have simply been scared | |||
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"In short, vote leave and the govt can't make their mind up at all and have conned the voters. In her 'great' speech May said: "Both sides in the referendum campaign made it clear that a vote to leave the EU would be a vote to leave the Single Market." Which is bollocks as shown from Hannan's quote above. And if that isn't enough here are a few more quotes from prominent leavers saying about our relationship with the single market: "Only a madman would actually leave the market" - Owen Paterson, Tory Vote Leave campaigner "There's a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and Britain will still be part of it after we vote leave." - Chris Grayling, Tory Brexit campaigner and current member of Theresa May's own cabinet! "There is no question about it, Britain will still have access to the single market after we vote leave" - Matthew Elliot, chief executive of the Vote Leave campaign "Britain will stay in the single market whatever happens" - Pete North, pro-Brexit blogger "Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK" - Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder and massive UKIP bankroller "Wouldn’t it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They’re rich. They’re happy. They’re self-governing" - Nigel Farage, Leave.EU campaigner and UKIP leader at the time "Norway, Switzerland, all of these countries have complete free trade with the EU, and by the way, I can't help noticing that they're doing pretty well." - Daniel Hannan, Tory Vote Leave campaigner And you really want to squirm out of it by arguing the definition of 'our place'? Seriously? I guess when this all blows up leavers will be arguing the definition of 'leave' just to save face. -Matt None of those quotes say that we should remain a member of the single market. To be a full member you have to be a member of the EU as well you know. Its been covered often enough You take those quotes and put them in front of the average person in the street and let me know whether they think they are suggesting we would remain a part of the single market or not if we left the EU. You can twist and squirm and redefine words all you like. It is very clear that the intent there is that the UK would still retain the benefits we currently have of trade within the EU. I strongly believe that a large number of voters voted leave on the understanding that we could retain those trade benefits and/or that free movement of people would be stopped. They have been conned. -Matt We will retain those trade benfits without free movement along with the benefits of being out of the customs union. You have simply been scared" Will there be customs checks like there are on goods from non EU countries? | |||
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"In short, vote leave and the govt can't make their mind up at all and have conned the voters. In her 'great' speech May said: "Both sides in the referendum campaign made it clear that a vote to leave the EU would be a vote to leave the Single Market." Which is bollocks as shown from Hannan's quote above. And if that isn't enough here are a few more quotes from prominent leavers saying about our relationship with the single market: "Only a madman would actually leave the market" - Owen Paterson, Tory Vote Leave campaigner "There's a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and Britain will still be part of it after we vote leave." - Chris Grayling, Tory Brexit campaigner and current member of Theresa May's own cabinet! "There is no question about it, Britain will still have access to the single market after we vote leave" - Matthew Elliot, chief executive of the Vote Leave campaign "Britain will stay in the single market whatever happens" - Pete North, pro-Brexit blogger "Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK" - Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder and massive UKIP bankroller "Wouldn’t it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They’re rich. They’re happy. They’re self-governing" - Nigel Farage, Leave.EU campaigner and UKIP leader at the time "Norway, Switzerland, all of these countries have complete free trade with the EU, and by the way, I can't help noticing that they're doing pretty well." - Daniel Hannan, Tory Vote Leave campaigner And you really want to squirm out of it by arguing the definition of 'our place'? Seriously? I guess when this all blows up leavers will be arguing the definition of 'leave' just to save face. -Matt None of those quotes say that we should remain a member of the single market. To be a full member you have to be a member of the EU as well you know. Its been covered often enough You take those quotes and put them in front of the average person in the street and let me know whether they think they are suggesting we would remain a part of the single market or not if we left the EU. You can twist and squirm and redefine words all you like. It is very clear that the intent there is that the UK would still retain the benefits we currently have of trade within the EU. I strongly believe that a large number of voters voted leave on the understanding that we could retain those trade benefits and/or that free movement of people would be stopped. They have been conned. -Matt We will retain those trade benfits without free movement along with the benefits of being out of the customs union. You have simply been scared Will there be customs checks like there are on goods from non EU countries? " You tell us. What does your crstal ball say | |||
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"In short, vote leave and the govt can't make their mind up at all and have conned the voters. In her 'great' speech May said: "Both sides in the referendum campaign made it clear that a vote to leave the EU would be a vote to leave the Single Market." Which is bollocks as shown from Hannan's quote above. And if that isn't enough here are a few more quotes from prominent leavers saying about our relationship with the single market: "Only a madman would actually leave the market" - Owen Paterson, Tory Vote Leave campaigner "There's a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and Britain will still be part of it after we vote leave." - Chris Grayling, Tory Brexit campaigner and current member of Theresa May's own cabinet! "There is no question about it, Britain will still have access to the single market after we vote leave" - Matthew Elliot, chief executive of the Vote Leave campaign "Britain will stay in the single market whatever happens" - Pete North, pro-Brexit blogger "Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK" - Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder and massive UKIP bankroller "Wouldn’t it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They’re rich. They’re happy. They’re self-governing" - Nigel Farage, Leave.EU campaigner and UKIP leader at the time "Norway, Switzerland, all of these countries have complete free trade with the EU, and by the way, I can't help noticing that they're doing pretty well." - Daniel Hannan, Tory Vote Leave campaigner And you really want to squirm out of it by arguing the definition of 'our place'? Seriously? I guess when this all blows up leavers will be arguing the definition of 'leave' just to save face. -Matt None of those quotes say that we should remain a member of the single market. To be a full member you have to be a member of the EU as well you know. Its been covered often enough You take those quotes and put them in front of the average person in the street and let me know whether they think they are suggesting we would remain a part of the single market or not if we left the EU. You can twist and squirm and redefine words all you like. It is very clear that the intent there is that the UK would still retain the benefits we currently have of trade within the EU. I strongly believe that a large number of voters voted leave on the understanding that we could retain those trade benefits and/or that free movement of people would be stopped. They have been conned. -Matt We will retain those trade benfits without free movement along with the benefits of being out of the customs union. You have simply been scared Will there be customs checks like there are on goods from non EU countries? " I guess you didn't see the guy being interviewed at Dover docks who said this wouldn't be a problem. | |||
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"I strongly believe that a large number of voters voted leave on the understanding that we could retain those trade benefits and/or that free movement of people would be stopped. They have been conned. -Matt We will retain those trade benfits without free movement along with the benefits of being out of the customs union. You have simply been scared" So in short, have our cake and eat it? That would be fantastic. Apart from I think free movement is a GOOD thing. Let's see how the negotiations go. I think you have unrealistic expectations. -Matt | |||
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"I import and export to the EU and non-EU. Customs checks are minimal in complication and timing. Imports and exports to China and Usa can be door-door USA 2 days and China 3 days. The timing is geographical not customs related." Interesting. So why whenever I order goods from eBay vendors in China or the US do they sit for a day or two in customs according to the tracking? And I get charged a hefty fee for 'handling' and 'import duty'. So you saying we'll get that on good we order from the EU now too? Excellent. -Matt | |||
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"I import and export to the EU and non-EU. Customs checks are minimal in complication and timing. Imports and exports to China and Usa can be door-door USA 2 days and China 3 days. The timing is geographical not customs related." So are you suggesting there are no positives of a customs union? | |||
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"I import and export to the EU and non-EU. Customs checks are minimal in complication and timing. Imports and exports to China and Usa can be door-door USA 2 days and China 3 days. The timing is geographical not customs related. Interesting. So why whenever I order goods from eBay vendors in China or the US do they sit for a day or two in customs according to the tracking? And I get charged a hefty fee for 'handling' and 'import duty'. So you saying we'll get that on good we order from the EU now too? Excellent. -Matt" Because they are sent by post to you as an individual. If you are a business trading internationally, which is the bulk of trade we are talking about here, the VAT and /or duty is either prepaid by the vendor and added to the price (INCO terms DDP) or paid by the recipient company (Inco DDU) the £10 fee on a business trade is generally inconsequential and there is no customs delay in that case. By the way the USA example is unusual. We tax all USA imports regardless of value (£20+). The USA allows imports up to $500 USD (from memory) duty free and Australia $1000 AUD duty free. | |||
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"I import and export to the EU and non-EU. Customs checks are minimal in complication and timing. Imports and exports to China and Usa can be door-door USA 2 days and China 3 days. The timing is geographical not customs related. Interesting. So why whenever I order goods from eBay vendors in China or the US do they sit for a day or two in customs according to the tracking? And I get charged a hefty fee for 'handling' and 'import duty'. So you saying we'll get that on good we order from the EU now too? Excellent. -Matt Because they are sent by post to you as an individual. If you are a business trading internationally, which is the bulk of trade we are talking about here, the VAT and /or duty is either prepaid by the vendor and added to the price (INCO terms DDP) or paid by the recipient company (Inco DDU) the £10 fee on a business trade is generally inconsequential and there is no customs delay in that case. By the way the USA example is unusual. We tax all USA imports regardless of value (£20+). The USA allows imports up to $500 USD (from memory) duty free and Australia $1000 AUD duty free." Ok. Cool. I'm glad you think it is inconsequential. That means that the vendors won't have to increase the price to cover the costs. So generous of them to swallow both the fx hit and the customs hit out of their good hearts. Meanwhile... back in the real world... -Matt | |||
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" Because they are sent by post to you as an individual. If you are a business trading internationally, which is the bulk of trade we are talking about here, the VAT and /or duty is either prepaid by the vendor and added to the price (INCO terms DDP) or paid by the recipient company (Inco DDU) the £10 fee on a business trade is generally inconsequential and there is no customs delay in that case. By the way the USA example is unusual. We tax all USA imports regardless of value (£20+). The USA allows imports up to $500 USD (from memory) duty free and Australia $1000 AUD duty free. Ok. Cool. I'm glad you think it is inconsequential. That means that the vendors won't have to increase the price to cover the costs. So generous of them to swallow both the fx hit and the customs hit out of their good hearts. Meanwhile... back in the real world... -Matt" Actually in the real world £10 in a £10k+ business-business transaction is inconsequential. On a £10 ebay transaction it isn't. But the discussion on single market trade is generally b2b related. | |||
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" Because they are sent by post to you as an individual. If you are a business trading internationally, which is the bulk of trade we are talking about here, the VAT and /or duty is either prepaid by the vendor and added to the price (INCO terms DDP) or paid by the recipient company (Inco DDU) the £10 fee on a business trade is generally inconsequential and there is no customs delay in that case. By the way the USA example is unusual. We tax all USA imports regardless of value (£20+). The USA allows imports up to $500 USD (from memory) duty free and Australia $1000 AUD duty free. Ok. Cool. I'm glad you think it is inconsequential. That means that the vendors won't have to increase the price to cover the costs. So generous of them to swallow both the fx hit and the customs hit out of their good hearts. Meanwhile... back in the real world... -Matt Actually in the real world £10 in a £10k+ business-business transaction is inconsequential. On a £10 ebay transaction it isn't. But the discussion on single market trade is generally b2b related." So no benefits of having a customs union then? | |||
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" Because they are sent by post to you as an individual. If you are a business trading internationally, which is the bulk of trade we are talking about here, the VAT and /or duty is either prepaid by the vendor and added to the price (INCO terms DDP) or paid by the recipient company (Inco DDU) the £10 fee on a business trade is generally inconsequential and there is no customs delay in that case. By the way the USA example is unusual. We tax all USA imports regardless of value (£20+). The USA allows imports up to $500 USD (from memory) duty free and Australia $1000 AUD duty free. Ok. Cool. I'm glad you think it is inconsequential. That means that the vendors won't have to increase the price to cover the costs. So generous of them to swallow both the fx hit and the customs hit out of their good hearts. Meanwhile... back in the real world... -Matt Actually in the real world £10 in a £10k+ business-business transaction is inconsequential. On a £10 ebay transaction it isn't. But the discussion on single market trade is generally b2b related. So no benefits of having a customs union then? " If you take into account the disagtantages, no. What do you think it is, 1975? | |||
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"what are these disadvantages? " The inability to set rates etc with others outside the union | |||
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"what are these disadvantages? The inability to set rates etc with others outside the union" So then 1) why were prominant leave campaigners promoting the Norway model then? 2) BuckandBun thinks the tarrifs are inconsequential. If so what disadvantage is there to them then? -Matt 2) | |||
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"what are these disadvantages? The inability to set rates etc with others outside the union So then 1) why were prominant leave campaigners promoting the Norway model then? 2) BuckandBun thinks the tarrifs are inconsequential. If so what disadvantage is there to them then? -Matt " You are misquoting me / misunderstood me on 2). I never said tariffs are inconsequential. I said the £10 admin fee on a large business import order was inconsequential. | |||
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"what are these disadvantages? The inability to set rates etc with others outside the union So then 1) why were prominant leave campaigners promoting the Norway model then? 2) BuckandBun thinks the tarrifs are inconsequential. If so what disadvantage is there to them then? -Matt 2) " Because inside the union you can't make bilateral trade deals either can you? | |||
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"what are these disadvantages? The inability to set rates etc with others outside the union So then 1) why were prominant leave campaigners promoting the Norway model then? 2) BuckandBun thinks the tarrifs are inconsequential. If so what disadvantage is there to them then? -Matt You are misquoting me / misunderstood me on 2). I never said tariffs are inconsequential. I said the £10 admin fee on a large business import order was inconsequential." Sorry not tarrifs then. But whatever it is you are saying is inconsequential about the customs union, is now being said by someone else to be a disadvantage to being in the cusoms union. -Matt | |||
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"what are these disadvantages? The inability to set rates etc with others outside the union So then 1) why were prominant leave campaigners promoting the Norway model then? 2) BuckandBun thinks the tarrifs are inconsequential. If so what disadvantage is there to them then? -Matt You are misquoting me / misunderstood me on 2). I never said tariffs are inconsequential. I said the £10 admin fee on a large business import order was inconsequential. Sorry not tarrifs then. But whatever it is you are saying is inconsequential about the customs union, is now being said by someone else to be a disadvantage to being in the cusoms union. -Matt" Ffs another expert hair splitter  | |||
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"what are these disadvantages? The inability to set rates etc with others outside the union So then 1) why were prominant leave campaigners promoting the Norway model then? 2) BuckandBun thinks the tarrifs are inconsequential. If so what disadvantage is there to them then? -Matt 2) Because inside the union you can't make bilateral trade deals either can you?" I don't know. But if guess if that is the case then clearly Aaron Banks didn't think that that was important if he was saying a Norway style deal could work. Kinda funny for someone bankrolling UKIP to think that. -Matt | |||
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" You are misquoting me / misunderstood me on 2). I never said tariffs are inconsequential. I said the £10 admin fee on a large business import order was inconsequential. Sorry not tarrifs then. But whatever it is you are saying is inconsequential about the customs union, is now being said by someone else to be a disadvantage to being in the cusoms union. -Matt" Ok, lets rewind. The initial comment was about complexity / time in customs. I said from a business point of view, in my experience doing it daily it didn't cause a delay. You said on ebay purchases it did and there was a big admin fee plus duty (I agree). I tried to explain on a business transaction the admin fee is inconsequential. Tariffs are a discussion in their own right. What will the cost be for a total free trade deal with the EU? No-one knows yet. If the cost is the same as EU membership plus unrestricted free movement it will no doubt be rejected. There is then a sliding scale of that situation right through to WTO terms. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You are misquoting me / misunderstood me on 2). I never said tariffs are inconsequential. I said the £10 admin fee on a large business import order was inconsequential. Sorry not tarrifs then. But whatever it is you are saying is inconsequential about the customs union, is now being said by someone else to be a disadvantage to being in the cusoms union. -Matt Ok, lets rewind. The initial comment was about complexity / time in customs. I said from a business point of view, in my experience doing it daily it didn't cause a delay. You said on ebay purchases it did and there was a big admin fee plus duty (I agree). I tried to explain on a business transaction the admin fee is inconsequential. Tariffs are a discussion in their own right. What will the cost be for a total free trade deal with the EU? No-one knows yet. If the cost is the same as EU membership plus unrestricted free movement it will no doubt be rejected. There is then a sliding scale of that situation right through to WTO terms. " Ok that makes some sense then. Let's ask you then, what disadvantages do you see being a part of the customs union then? If you reckon that the bulk of the trade is B2B and the admin fees don't matter? And as for the sliding scale, we also have to negotiate our WTO terms and quotas too whilst dealing with all this. So we don't yet know what the cost of that end of the scale is yet. -Matt | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Tariffs are a discussion in their own right. What will the cost be for a total free trade deal with the EU? No-one knows yet. If the cost is the same as EU membership plus unrestricted free movement it will no doubt be rejected. There is then a sliding scale of that situation right through to WTO terms. Ok that makes some sense then. Let's ask you then, what disadvantages do you see being a part of the customs union then? If you reckon that the bulk of the trade is B2B and the admin fees don't matter? And as for the sliding scale, we also have to negotiate our WTO terms and quotas too whilst dealing with all this. So we don't yet know what the cost of that end of the scale is yet. -Matt" Ignoring the name of the customs union (to avoid a debate that has plagued other threads). I don't have any problem with a free trade zone, as a stand alone concept. The disadvantage of that union is the cost. Be it financial or political. If the cost is complete free movement it would be rejected. If it is controlled migration then I imagine it would create an interesting debate. If it is £5bn as opposed to £13bn eu membership again might be interesting. That's why I have asked in other threads what people would like to see as an outcome. The referendum is gone. What do people think is a palatable outcome of the negotiations that would satisfy the most people? | |||
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"what are these disadvantages? The inability to set rates etc with others outside the union" rates? what rates? | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? " Yes. Pissed off in general with it being dragged on, the EU trying to run rough shod, the leftie scaremongering media, the repetitive news stories about it all... | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Yes. Pissed off in general with it being dragged on, the EU trying to run rough shod, the leftie scaremongering media, the repetitive news stories about it all..." New face. Welcome to the jungle  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Yes. Pissed off in general with it being dragged on, the EU trying to run rough shod, the leftie scaremongering media, the repetitive news stories about it all... New face. Welcome to the jungle "Yes welcome. Thats the niceties out of the way. Lets start hostilities | |||
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"A transition period from unlimited free movement to a new system seems sensible. I would have thought those people with concerns about limiting migration would also be pleased that an approach was being suggested that minimised any negative impact. Isn't this the type of approach that was spoken about when asking for remain voters concerns being taken into account too? To me (as a remain voter) it makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I don't see how you could have a hard cut-over date with things like this. Look at the disruption caused by Trump's travel ban. Whilst a bit different in that we are talking about a planned event, not something just sprung out of nowhere, a phased or transition approach is definitely needed. Especially if you need to give both individuals and businesses time to prepare and plan. -Matt
Hopefully, now the discussions will begin to turn to what actual solutions are best for the country, businesses and people.
The referendum is gone. Article 50 is invoked. There is no benefit to anyone in looking back in anger at the result. Now is the time to debate what solutions will work best. That will be the case on a range of issues. People can then choose to either sulk and stomp, or engage with that discussion and hopefully encourage it to be steered in a sensible pragmatic direction.
This will be the first of many, and it sounds as though a common sense approach is being followed.
What happens if keeping free movement of people permanently is the best solution for people, businesses and the country? Would you support that?
Can you find any statement from any of the leave campaign that ever said they wanted ALL immigration stopped ?
Pretty sure all they harped on about was an Aussie style points system wasn't it?
S
You mean the system that Australia introduced to *increase* immigration as they had a shortage of skilled workers there?
But yes, you are right, Vote leave walked back their hardline stance pretty much the day after the results with Hannan saying: “Frankly, if people watching think that they have voted and there is now going to be zero immigration from the EU, they are going to be disappointed.”
Alas the rise in hate-crimes relating to race after the vote seems to indicate that immigration was indeed a factor for many people. And quite clear that 'control our borders' was just a dog whistle meme to the racists to hide behind.
-Matt"So Australia introduced a system, Which enabled them to increase immigration And yet retain immigration contol. That's as good as it gets, Fingers crossed,the UK adopts the same system. It also Pretty much makes a mockery, Of the Remainers persistent claim, Citing freedom of movement,as the only possible method, In fulfilling the UKs immigration requirements. Happy to see that one put to bed.
.
In your last paragraph,you say that for many,
the phrase,
Control our borders,was just a dog whistle meme to the racist to hide behind.
Even though the overwhelming majority,
Who voted leave.
Are not racist,
they're just ordinary,decent,people,
With a genuine desire,for greater control over our borders,nothing more,nothing less
.
Who Like all,ordinary,decent people,
No matter,remain or leave.
Feel disgusted,and repulsed,
By the,
twisted perceptions,
And actions,
of the racist thugs.
| |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A transition period from unlimited free movement to a new system seems sensible. I would have thought those people with concerns about limiting migration would also be pleased that an approach was being suggested that minimised any negative impact. Isn't this the type of approach that was spoken about when asking for remain voters concerns being taken into account too? To me (as a remain voter) it makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I don't see how you could have a hard cut-over date with things like this. Look at the disruption caused by Trump's travel ban. Whilst a bit different in that we are talking about a planned event, not something just sprung out of nowhere, a phased or transition approach is definitely needed. Especially if you need to give both individuals and businesses time to prepare and plan. -Matt
Hopefully, now the discussions will begin to turn to what actual solutions are best for the country, businesses and people.
The referendum is gone. Article 50 is invoked. There is no benefit to anyone in looking back in anger at the result. Now is the time to debate what solutions will work best. That will be the case on a range of issues. People can then choose to either sulk and stomp, or engage with that discussion and hopefully encourage it to be steered in a sensible pragmatic direction.
This will be the first of many, and it sounds as though a common sense approach is being followed.
What happens if keeping free movement of people permanently is the best solution for people, businesses and the country? Would you support that?
Can you find any statement from any of the leave campaign that ever said they wanted ALL immigration stopped ?
Pretty sure all they harped on about was an Aussie style points system wasn't it?
S
You mean the system that Australia introduced to *increase* immigration as they had a shortage of skilled workers there?
But yes, you are right, Vote leave walked back their hardline stance pretty much the day after the results with Hannan saying: “Frankly, if people watching think that they have voted and there is now going to be zero immigration from the EU, they are going to be disappointed.”
Alas the rise in hate-crimes relating to race after the vote seems to indicate that immigration was indeed a factor for many people. And quite clear that 'control our borders' was just a dog whistle meme to the racists to hide behind.
-Matt
So Australia introduced a system,
Which enabled them to increase immigration
And yet retain immigration contol.
That's as good as it gets, Fingers crossed,the UK adopts the same system.
It also Pretty much makes a mockery,
Of the Remainers persistent claim,
Citing freedom of movement,as the only possible method,
In fulfilling the UKs immigration requirements.
Happy to see that one
put to bed.
.
In your last paragraph,you say that for many,
the phrase,
Control our borders,was just a dog whistle meme to the racist to hide behind.
Even though the overwhelming majority,
Who voted leave.
Are not racist,
they're just ordinary,decent,people,
With a genuine desire,for greater control over our borders,nothing more,nothing less
.
Who Like all,ordinary,decent people,
No matter,remain or leave.
Feel disgusted,and repulsed,
By the,
twisted perceptions,
And actions,
of the racist thugs.
"Why do you and most leavers want control of the borders ..what do you guys fear? | |||
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" Why do you and most leavers want control of the borders ..what do you guys fear?" Did you miss pictures of the economic migrants trying to block roads, threatening lorry drivers in France ? Why would any sane country want them ? How many countries in the world have totally open borders ? | |||
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"another one who thinks all countries have elctrified razor wire fences running the toal length of their borders with machine gun towers every 300 yards " Go on then which countries have free open borders at air/seaports. The debate isnt about illegal immigrants its about legal ones | |||
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" Why do you and most leavers want control of the borders ..what do you guys fear? Did you miss pictures of the economic migrants trying to block roads, threatening lorry drivers in France ? Why would any sane country want them ? How many countries in the world have totally open borders ?" ok ..so how will these economic migrants ..if they are in fact economic migrants how will they impact your life personally? I am an economic migrant I was recruited overseas and came to this country for work and stayed so is the governer of the bank of England and countless sciencetist where I work so what is the problem? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Why do you and most leavers want control of the borders ..what do you guys fear? Did you miss pictures of the economic migrants trying to block roads, threatening lorry drivers in France ? Why would any sane country want them ? How many countries in the world have totally open borders ? ok ..so how will these economic migrants ..if they are in fact economic migrants how will they impact your life personally? I am an economic migrant I was recruited overseas and came to this country for work and stayed so is the governer of the bank of England and countless sciencetist where I work so what is the problem?" their attitude | |||
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"The debate isnt about illegal immigrants its about legal ones" a moment ago your post was about economic migrants ... then you attempt to segue your way into a debate about legal or illegal immigration .... you're just talking bollocks to suit your own agenda | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Why do you and most leavers want control of the borders ..what do you guys fear? Did you miss pictures of the economic migrants trying to block roads, threatening lorry drivers in France ? Why would any sane country want them ? How many countries in the world have totally open borders ? ok ..so how will these economic migrants ..if they are in fact economic migrants how will they impact your life personally? I am an economic migrant I was recruited overseas and came to this country for work and stayed so is the governer of the bank of England and countless sciencetist where I work so what is the problem?" You were asked to come here as was carney that is totally different to allowing free passage to anyone regardless of their reasons or abilities. I have no objections to people coming here that offer something that we need and arent going to be a burden,its called control,its not racist its not fear its called realism,again name any country that allows totally free legal immigration, thats the third time not seen any examples yet | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A transition period from unlimited free movement to a new system seems sensible. I would have thought those people with concerns about limiting migration would also be pleased that an approach was being suggested that minimised any negative impact. Isn't this the type of approach that was spoken about when asking for remain voters concerns being taken into account too? To me (as a remain voter) it makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I don't see how you could have a hard cut-over date with things like this. Look at the disruption caused by Trump's travel ban. Whilst a bit different in that we are talking about a planned event, not something just sprung out of nowhere, a phased or transition approach is definitely needed. Especially if you need to give both individuals and businesses time to prepare and plan. -Matt
Hopefully, now the discussions will begin to turn to what actual solutions are best for the country, businesses and people.
The referendum is gone. Article 50 is invoked. There is no benefit to anyone in looking back in anger at the result. Now is the time to debate what solutions will work best. That will be the case on a range of issues. People can then choose to either sulk and stomp, or engage with that discussion and hopefully encourage it to be steered in a sensible pragmatic direction.
This will be the first of many, and it sounds as though a common sense approach is being followed.
What happens if keeping free movement of people permanently is the best solution for people, businesses and the country? Would you support that?
Can you find any statement from any of the leave campaign that ever said they wanted ALL immigration stopped ?
Pretty sure all they harped on about was an Aussie style points system wasn't it?
S
You mean the system that Australia introduced to *increase* immigration as they had a shortage of skilled workers there?
But yes, you are right, Vote leave walked back their hardline stance pretty much the day after the results with Hannan saying: “Frankly, if people watching think that they have voted and there is now going to be zero immigration from the EU, they are going to be disappointed.”
Alas the rise in hate-crimes relating to race after the vote seems to indicate that immigration was indeed a factor for many people. And quite clear that 'control our borders' was just a dog whistle meme to the racists to hide behind.
-Matt
So Australia introduced a system,
Which enabled them to increase immigration
And yet retain immigration contol.
That's as good as it gets, Fingers crossed,the UK adopts the same system.
It also Pretty much makes a mockery,
Of the Remainers persistent claim,
Citing freedom of movement,as the only possible method,
In fulfilling the UKs immigration requirements.
Happy to see that one
put to bed.
.
In your last paragraph,you say that for many,
the phrase,
Control our borders,was just a dog whistle meme to the racist to hide behind.
Even though the overwhelming majority,
Who voted leave.
Are not racist,
they're just ordinary,decent,people,
With a genuine desire,for greater control over our borders,nothing more,nothing less
.
Who Like all,ordinary,decent people,
No matter,remain or leave.
Feel disgusted,and repulsed,
By the,
twisted perceptions,
And actions,
of the racist thugs.
"Great post | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Why do you and most leavers want control of the borders ..what do you guys fear? Did you miss pictures of the economic migrants trying to block roads, threatening lorry drivers in France ? Why would any sane country want them ? How many countries in the world have totally open borders ? ok ..so how will these economic migrants ..if they are in fact economic migrants how will they impact your life personally? I am an economic migrant I was recruited overseas and came to this country for work and stayed so is the governer of the bank of England and countless sciencetist where I work so what is the problem? You were asked to come here as was carney that is totally different to allowing free passage to anyone regardless of their reasons or abilities. I have no objections to people coming here that offer something that we need and arent going to be a burden,its called control,its not racist its not fear its called realism,again name any country that allows totally free legal immigration, thats the third time not seen any examples yet " No country offers totally free immigration, that includes EU countries, an EU citizen can only move from member state A to member state B if they are exercising treaty rights, if they are not, then they get deported. I know of both UK citizens deported from the EU back to the UK, and EU citizens deported from the UK back to the EU. | |||
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"Are any of the Leavers pissed off that the PM has said that we might have free movement for another 5 years? Yes. Pissed off in general with it being dragged on, the EU trying to run rough shod, the leftie scaremongering media, the repetitive news stories about it all... New face. Welcome to the jungle "Cheers. | |||
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"Agree 100percent with the post above well said " Me too. I voted to leave. It's a generational thing. The 18-29 year olds lied to in 1973 and 75 about the glorious EEC including those born in 1978 such ad myself who've seen the ruin mass immigration without border controls, EU 'laws' dominating and overtaking our parliaments sovereignty as well as the overall decline of the UK in terms of there being way too may people living here (proof being the pressure put on the NHS, traffic near gridlock on a daily basis, shortages in housing) has been rectified by the Leave voters. Give it 40 years and the myriad Remainers, the youth who voted to stay, will also turn towards the Leave viewpoint. It is not racist to want border and immigration controls in any country - it is common sense. Economic migration is one thing, unchecked Shengen style stupidity leads to the ruin of countries. Finally, if the EU is so great, why is there mass unemployment in Italy, Spain, parts of France and why is Greece bankrupt? Why do other EU states have to bail them out with no word on when it will be paid back? Why should the UK pay a ridiculous €50 billion just to leave???! Where would that money go? The media sew division on this subject. Stirring the pot continually. The politicians don't unite behind the majority vote and say it's done let's move forward and optimistically, hell, we had a petulant year of a former PM who threw his toys out of his pram when the NO Vote lost and then he left office instead of proudly following the people's mandate! We are leaving. The Remoaners complain like children until they get their way (which won't happen). Arguing it's democracy is redundant - they don't respect the winning vote. I will be glad when it's finally done. It may sound trite but the UK survived two world wars...we shall prosper out of the EU. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Agree 100percent with the post above well said Me too. I voted to leave. It's a generational thing. The 18-29 year olds lied to in 1973 and 75 about the glorious EEC including those born in 1978 such ad myself who've seen the ruin mass immigration without border controls, EU 'laws' dominating and overtaking our parliaments sovereignty as well as the overall decline of the UK in terms of there being way too may people living here (proof being the pressure put on the NHS, traffic near gridlock on a daily basis, shortages in housing) has been rectified by the Leave voters. Give it 40 years and the myriad Remainers, the youth who voted to stay, will also turn towards the Leave viewpoint. It is not racist to want border and immigration controls in any country - it is common sense. Economic migration is one thing, unchecked Shengen style stupidity leads to the ruin of countries. Finally, if the EU is so great, why is there mass unemployment in Italy, Spain, parts of France and why is Greece bankrupt? Why do other EU states have to bail them out with no word on when it will be paid back? Why should the UK pay a ridiculous €50 billion just to leave???! Where would that money go? The media sew division on this subject. Stirring the pot continually. The politicians don't unite behind the majority vote and say it's done let's move forward and optimistically, hell, we had a petulant year of a former PM who threw his toys out of his pram when the NO Vote lost and then he left office instead of proudly following the people's mandate! We are leaving. The Remoaners complain like children until they get their way (which won't happen). Arguing it's democracy is redundant - they don't respect the winning vote. I will be glad when it's finally done. It may sound trite but the UK survived two world wars...we shall prosper out of the EU. " You just get straight in there. Great post | |||
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"a lesson in the meaning of realism ..... the reality is that our borders are far too open for the liking of the idealists... the idealists that want to close the borders are idealists because they want to change the reality of what is, to the idealism of how they want it to be " So we arent doing anything unusual then, instead of allowing the EU to control its and thus our border we are taking repsonsibility for our own again. If a allien listened to some people they would think that the Uk was full of anglo saxon racists that wanted to keep out anyone not the same, the reality is the UK is one of the most diverse nations on earth walk down any street here and you will see and hear faces and voices from round the world,the UK is a very tolerant society compared to many other nations, of course there are a few that dont like different races but that isnt confined to just the anglo saxons,but everyone is entitled to an opinion | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Agree 100percent with the post above well said Me too. I voted to leave. It's a generational thing. The 18-29 year olds lied to in 1973 and 75 about the glorious EEC including those born in 1978 such ad myself who've seen the ruin mass immigration without border controls, EU 'laws' dominating and overtaking our parliaments sovereignty as well as the overall decline of the UK in terms of there being way too may people living here (proof being the pressure put on the NHS, traffic near gridlock on a daily basis, shortages in housing) has been rectified by the Leave voters. Give it 40 years and the myriad Remainers, the youth who voted to stay, will also turn towards the Leave viewpoint. It is not racist to want border and immigration controls in any country - it is common sense. Economic migration is one thing, unchecked Shengen style stupidity leads to the ruin of countries. Finally, if the EU is so great, why is there mass unemployment in Italy, Spain, parts of France and why is Greece bankrupt? Why do other EU states have to bail them out with no word on when it will be paid back? Why should the UK pay a ridiculous €50 billion just to leave???! Where would that money go? The media sew division on this subject. Stirring the pot continually. The politicians don't unite behind the majority vote and say it's done let's move forward and optimistically, hell, we had a petulant year of a former PM who threw his toys out of his pram when the NO Vote lost and then he left office instead of proudly following the people's mandate! We are leaving. The Remoaners complain like children until they get their way (which won't happen). Arguing it's democracy is redundant - they don't respect the winning vote. I will be glad when it's finally done. It may sound trite but the UK survived two world wars...we shall prosper out of the EU. " this is great post however ...the UK is not part of schengen area so that didn't apply to the UK anways ..and the reason it's not because the UK used that palimentary sovereignty you talked about to say it didn't want it .. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Agree 100percent with the post above well said Me too. I voted to leave. It's a generational thing. The 18-29 year olds lied to in 1973 and 75 about the glorious EEC including those born in 1978 such ad myself who've seen the ruin mass immigration without border controls, EU 'laws' dominating and overtaking our parliaments sovereignty as well as the overall decline of the UK in terms of there being way too may people living here (proof being the pressure put on the NHS, traffic near gridlock on a daily basis, shortages in housing) has been rectified by the Leave voters. Give it 40 years and the myriad Remainers, the youth who voted to stay, will also turn towards the Leave viewpoint. It is not racist to want border and immigration controls in any country - it is common sense. Economic migration is one thing, unchecked Shengen style stupidity leads to the ruin of countries. Finally, if the EU is so great, why is there mass unemployment in Italy, Spain, parts of France and why is Greece bankrupt? Why do other EU states have to bail them out with no word on when it will be paid back? Why should the UK pay a ridiculous €50 billion just to leave???! Where would that money go? The media sew division on this subject. Stirring the pot continually. The politicians don't unite behind the majority vote and say it's done let's move forward and optimistically, hell, we had a petulant year of a former PM who threw his toys out of his pram when the NO Vote lost and then he left office instead of proudly following the people's mandate! We are leaving. The Remoaners complain like children until they get their way (which won't happen). Arguing it's democracy is redundant - they don't respect the winning vote. I will be glad when it's finally done. It may sound trite but the UK survived two world wars...we shall prosper out of the EU. this is great post however ...the UK is not part of schengen area so that didn't apply to the UK anways ..and the reason it's not because the UK used that palimentary sovereignty you talked about to say it didn't want it .." Taa. I see. I thought the UK had to take EU quotas of immigration? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Agree 100percent with the post above well said Me too. I voted to leave. It's a generational thing. The 18-29 year olds lied to in 1973 and 75 about the glorious EEC including those born in 1978 such ad myself who've seen the ruin mass immigration without border controls, EU 'laws' dominating and overtaking our parliaments sovereignty as well as the overall decline of the UK in terms of there being way too may people living here (proof being the pressure put on the NHS, traffic near gridlock on a daily basis, shortages in housing) has been rectified by the Leave voters. Give it 40 years and the myriad Remainers, the youth who voted to stay, will also turn towards the Leave viewpoint. It is not racist to want border and immigration controls in any country - it is common sense. Economic migration is one thing, unchecked Shengen style stupidity leads to the ruin of countries. Finally, if the EU is so great, why is there mass unemployment in Italy, Spain, parts of France and why is Greece bankrupt? Why do other EU states have to bail them out with no word on when it will be paid back? Why should the UK pay a ridiculous €50 billion just to leave???! Where would that money go? The media sew division on this subject. Stirring the pot continually. The politicians don't unite behind the majority vote and say it's done let's move forward and optimistically, hell, we had a petulant year of a former PM who threw his toys out of his pram when the NO Vote lost and then he left office instead of proudly following the people's mandate! We are leaving. The Remoaners complain like children until they get their way (which won't happen). Arguing it's democracy is redundant - they don't respect the winning vote. I will be glad when it's finally done. It may sound trite but the UK survived two world wars...we shall prosper out of the EU. You just get straight in there. Great post "Taa. I was bracing myself for being told I was rather silly... | |||
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"I think most of the leavers wanted lower immigration not zero tho but remainers sadly will not AV any of that As a remainer, personally I want to retain freedom of movement as I think it is beneficial to the UK both economically and culturally. And I think the reciprocal benefit of U.K. citizens being able to live and work freely in the EU outweighs any perceived negatives. I don't recal any leavers asking for zero immigration. But as I quoted above Daniel Hannan, a notable leave campaigner went on the record the day after the referendum to say that those who voted to leave for zero immigration will be sorely disappointed, so clearly he thought it must have been the opinion of some people. Bearing in mind this was also the guy who advocated for a Norway style relationship and said we should remain in the single market and customs union. But the rabid leavers on here will tell you that was never the plan. Of course, you've still not clarified if you thought it was me talking bullshit about zero immigration when I quoted Hannan above. -Matt Ps. 'Have' not AV. Your posts are very difficult to understand. 1st September 2016. Daniel Hannan: "Repeat after me. Single market membership and single market access are not the same thing." The IFS described access to the trade zone as ‘meaningless as a concept’. "Any country in the World Trade Organisation – from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe – has ‘access’ to the EU as an export destination" So you want the same relationship with the EU as Afghanistan and Zimbabwe? I was also making the point that he did NOT say we should stay in the single market. "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market" Daniel Hannan MEP" We went to see Daniel Hannan campaigning before the referendum. You're right, he did say that, or something very similar to it. It was also followed up by something along the lines of "The EU will still want to trade with us, and us with the EU......so we should have access to the single market" Also saw Sadiq Khan speaking. Hannan had by far the more compelling of the two sides of the argument. | |||
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"Agree 100percent with the post above well said Me too. I voted to leave. It's a generational thing. The 18-29 year olds lied to in 1973 and 75 about the glorious EEC including those born in 1978 such ad myself who've seen the ruin mass immigration without border controls, EU 'laws' dominating and overtaking our parliaments sovereignty as well as the overall decline of the UK in terms of there being way too may people living here (proof being the pressure put on the NHS, traffic near gridlock on a daily basis, shortages in housing) has been rectified by the Leave voters. Give it 40 years and the myriad Remainers, the youth who voted to stay, will also turn towards the Leave viewpoint. It is not racist to want border and immigration controls in any country - it is common sense. Economic migration is one thing, unchecked Shengen style stupidity leads to the ruin of countries. Finally, if the EU is so great, why is there mass unemployment in Italy, Spain, parts of France and why is Greece bankrupt? Why do other EU states have to bail them out with no word on when it will be paid back? Why should the UK pay a ridiculous €50 billion just to leave???! Where would that money go? The media sew division on this subject. Stirring the pot continually. The politicians don't unite behind the majority vote and say it's done let's move forward and optimistically, hell, we had a petulant year of a former PM who threw his toys out of his pram when the NO Vote lost and then he left office instead of proudly following the people's mandate! We are leaving. The Remoaners complain like children until they get their way (which won't happen). Arguing it's democracy is redundant - they don't respect the winning vote. I will be glad when it's finally done. It may sound trite but the UK survived two world wars...we shall prosper out of the EU. this is great post however ...the UK is not part of schengen area so that didn't apply to the UK anways ..and the reason it's not because the UK used that palimentary sovereignty you talked about to say it didn't want it .. Taa. I see. I thought the UK had to take EU quotas of immigration? " Why would any country have to take quotas of immigration? Is there an eu law saying each country must take a certain number or people from another country? Doesn't that sound a little bit silly to you? | |||
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"Agree 100percent with the post above well said Me too. I voted to leave. It's a generational thing. The 18-29 year olds lied to in 1973 and 75 about the glorious EEC including those born in 1978 such ad myself who've seen the ruin mass immigration without border controls, EU 'laws' dominating and overtaking our parliaments sovereignty as well as the overall decline of the UK in terms of there being way too may people living here (proof being the pressure put on the NHS, traffic near gridlock on a daily basis, shortages in housing) has been rectified by the Leave voters. Give it 40 years and the myriad Remainers, the youth who voted to stay, will also turn towards the Leave viewpoint. It is not racist to want border and immigration controls in any country - it is common sense. Economic migration is one thing, unchecked Shengen style stupidity leads to the ruin of countries. Finally, if the EU is so great, why is there mass unemployment in Italy, Spain, parts of France and why is Greece bankrupt? Why do other EU states have to bail them out with no word on when it will be paid back? Why should the UK pay a ridiculous €50 billion just to leave???! Where would that money go? The media sew division on this subject. Stirring the pot continually. The politicians don't unite behind the majority vote and say it's done let's move forward and optimistically, hell, we had a petulant year of a former PM who threw his toys out of his pram when the NO Vote lost and then he left office instead of proudly following the people's mandate! We are leaving. The Remoaners complain like children until they get their way (which won't happen). Arguing it's democracy is redundant - they don't respect the winning vote. I will be glad when it's finally done. It may sound trite but the UK survived two world wars...we shall prosper out of the EU. " this is a myth, we have always had control of our own borders! As anyone who drives to France will tell you your actually checked in Calais by British border control - as at any other port in the UK which has dealings with Europe! It's a myth about uncontrolled immigration too! EU rules only allow FREE MOVEMENT for 3 MONTHS in any EU state Since 2004! Over 3 months then you have to have sufficient capital to support YOURSELF. You have to have comprehensive medical insurance. Not be a security threat. The only exception to these rules are people employed who pay NI & TAX, students & the rich. Guess which country didn't adopt these measures? Yep UK. Also when the new eastern EU country's joined there was a 7 year freeze on them moving - only 3 member States didn't enforce this - UK, Ireland & Sweden! So why do you think this wasn't brought up in the campaign? Labour & Tory government's didn't enforce it - looks bad for both. Instead of reading just the paper's which are on your side of the argument - search it out. | |||
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"Agree 100percent with the post above well said Me too. I voted to leave. It's a generational thing. The 18-29 year olds lied to in 1973 and 75 about the glorious EEC including those born in 1978 such ad myself who've seen the ruin mass immigration without border controls, EU 'laws' dominating and overtaking our parliaments sovereignty as well as the overall decline of the UK in terms of there being way too may people living here (proof being the pressure put on the NHS, traffic near gridlock on a daily basis, shortages in housing) has been rectified by the Leave voters. Give it 40 years and the myriad Remainers, the youth who voted to stay, will also turn towards the Leave viewpoint. It is not racist to want border and immigration controls in any country - it is common sense. Economic migration is one thing, unchecked Shengen style stupidity leads to the ruin of countries. Finally, if the EU is so great, why is there mass unemployment in Italy, Spain, parts of France and why is Greece bankrupt? Why do other EU states have to bail them out with no word on when it will be paid back? Why should the UK pay a ridiculous €50 billion just to leave???! Where would that money go? The media sew division on this subject. Stirring the pot continually. The politicians don't unite behind the majority vote and say it's done let's move forward and optimistically, hell, we had a petulant year of a former PM who threw his toys out of his pram when the NO Vote lost and then he left office instead of proudly following the people's mandate! We are leaving. The Remoaners complain like children until they get their way (which won't happen). Arguing it's democracy is redundant - they don't respect the winning vote. I will be glad when it's finally done. It may sound trite but the UK survived two world wars...we shall prosper out of the EU. this is a myth, we have always had control of our own borders! As anyone who drives to France will tell you your actually checked in Calais by British border control - as at any other port in the UK which has dealings with Europe! It's a myth about uncontrolled immigration too! EU rules only allow FREE MOVEMENT for 3 MONTHS in any EU state Since 2004! Over 3 months then you have to have sufficient capital to support YOURSELF. You have to have comprehensive medical insurance. Not be a security threat. The only exception to these rules are people employed who pay NI & TAX, students & the rich. Guess which country didn't adopt these measures? Yep UK. Also when the new eastern EU country's joined there was a 7 year freeze on them moving - only 3 member States didn't enforce this - UK, Ireland & Sweden! So why do you think this wasn't brought up in the campaign? Labour & Tory government's didn't enforce it - looks bad for both. Instead of reading just the paper's which are on your side of the argument - search it out." The UK had CONTROL over immigration from the new member states, thats what you guys wanted right? So were you happy about that? | |||
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"Agree 100percent with the post above well said Me too. I voted to leave. It's a generational thing. The 18-29 year olds lied to in 1973 and 75 about the glorious EEC including those born in 1978 such ad myself who've seen the ruin mass immigration without border controls, EU 'laws' dominating and overtaking our parliaments sovereignty as well as the overall decline of the UK in terms of there being way too may people living here (proof being the pressure put on the NHS, traffic near gridlock on a daily basis, shortages in housing) has been rectified by the Leave voters. Give it 40 years and the myriad Remainers, the youth who voted to stay, will also turn towards the Leave viewpoint. It is not racist to want border and immigration controls in any country - it is common sense. Economic migration is one thing, unchecked Shengen style stupidity leads to the ruin of countries. Finally, if the EU is so great, why is there mass unemployment in Italy, Spain, parts of France and why is Greece bankrupt? Why do other EU states have to bail them out with no word on when it will be paid back? Why should the UK pay a ridiculous €50 billion just to leave???! Where would that money go? The media sew division on this subject. Stirring the pot continually. The politicians don't unite behind the majority vote and say it's done let's move forward and optimistically, hell, we had a petulant year of a former PM who threw his toys out of his pram when the NO Vote lost and then he left office instead of proudly following the people's mandate! We are leaving. The Remoaners complain like children until they get their way (which won't happen). Arguing it's democracy is redundant - they don't respect the winning vote. I will be glad when it's finally done. It may sound trite but the UK survived two world wars...we shall prosper out of the EU. this is a myth, we have always had control of our own borders! As anyone who drives to France will tell you your actually checked in Calais by British border control - as at any other port in the UK which has dealings with Europe! It's a myth about uncontrolled immigration too! EU rules only allow FREE MOVEMENT for 3 MONTHS in any EU state Since 2004! Over 3 months then you have to have sufficient capital to support YOURSELF. You have to have comprehensive medical insurance. Not be a security threat. The only exception to these rules are people employed who pay NI & TAX, students & the rich. Guess which country didn't adopt these measures? Yep UK. Also when the new eastern EU country's joined there was a 7 year freeze on them moving - only 3 member States didn't enforce this - UK, Ireland & Sweden! So why do you think this wasn't brought up in the campaign? Labour & Tory government's didn't enforce it - looks bad for both. Instead of reading just the paper's which are on your side of the argument - search it out." I don't go by what the papers say, I've based my opinion on my own viewpoint...its a waste of time the EU...why Remoaners want the dam thing is beyond me... | |||
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"Agree 100percent with the post above well said Me too. I voted to leave. It's a generational thing. The 18-29 year olds lied to in 1973 and 75 about the glorious EEC including those born in 1978 such ad myself who've seen the ruin mass immigration without border controls, EU 'laws' dominating and overtaking our parliaments sovereignty as well as the overall decline of the UK in terms of there being way too may people living here (proof being the pressure put on the NHS, traffic near gridlock on a daily basis, shortages in housing) has been rectified by the Leave voters. Give it 40 years and the myriad Remainers, the youth who voted to stay, will also turn towards the Leave viewpoint. It is not racist to want border and immigration controls in any country - it is common sense. Economic migration is one thing, unchecked Shengen style stupidity leads to the ruin of countries. Finally, if the EU is so great, why is there mass unemployment in Italy, Spain, parts of France and why is Greece bankrupt? Why do other EU states have to bail them out with no word on when it will be paid back? Why should the UK pay a ridiculous €50 billion just to leave???! Where would that money go? The media sew division on this subject. Stirring the pot continually. The politicians don't unite behind the majority vote and say it's done let's move forward and optimistically, hell, we had a petulant year of a former PM who threw his toys out of his pram when the NO Vote lost and then he left office instead of proudly following the people's mandate! We are leaving. The Remoaners complain like children until they get their way (which won't happen). Arguing it's democracy is redundant - they don't respect the winning vote. I will be glad when it's finally done. It may sound trite but the UK survived two world wars...we shall prosper out of the EU. this is a myth, we have always had control of our own borders! As anyone who drives to France will tell you your actually checked in Calais by British border control - as at any other port in the UK which has dealings with Europe! It's a myth about uncontrolled immigration too! EU rules only allow FREE MOVEMENT for 3 MONTHS in any EU state Since 2004! Over 3 months then you have to have sufficient capital to support YOURSELF. You have to have comprehensive medical insurance. Not be a security threat. The only exception to these rules are people employed who pay NI & TAX, students & the rich. Guess which country didn't adopt these measures? Yep UK. Also when the new eastern EU country's joined there was a 7 year freeze on them moving - only 3 member States didn't enforce this - UK, Ireland & Sweden! So why do you think this wasn't brought up in the campaign? Labour & Tory government's didn't enforce it - looks bad for both. Instead of reading just the paper's which are on your side of the argument - search it out. I don't go by what the papers say, I've based my opinion on my own viewpoint...its a waste of time the EU...why Remoaners want the dam thing is beyond me... "What is described above is not 'what the papers say' it is what happened. By all means have an opinion and a viewpoint, but don't dismiss actual events and facts as just 'what the papers say'. -Matt | |||
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"Agree 100percent with the post above well said Me too. I voted to leave. It's a generational thing. The 18-29 year olds lied to in 1973 and 75 about the glorious EEC including those born in 1978 such ad myself who've seen the ruin mass immigration without border controls, EU 'laws' dominating and overtaking our parliaments sovereignty as well as the overall decline of the UK in terms of there being way too may people living here (proof being the pressure put on the NHS, traffic near gridlock on a daily basis, shortages in housing) has been rectified by the Leave voters. Give it 40 years and the myriad Remainers, the youth who voted to stay, will also turn towards the Leave viewpoint. It is not racist to want border and immigration controls in any country - it is common sense. Economic migration is one thing, unchecked Shengen style stupidity leads to the ruin of countries. Finally, if the EU is so great, why is there mass unemployment in Italy, Spain, parts of France and why is Greece bankrupt? Why do other EU states have to bail them out with no word on when it will be paid back? Why should the UK pay a ridiculous €50 billion just to leave???! Where would that money go? The media sew division on this subject. Stirring the pot continually. The politicians don't unite behind the majority vote and say it's done let's move forward and optimistically, hell, we had a petulant year of a former PM who threw his toys out of his pram when the NO Vote lost and then he left office instead of proudly following the people's mandate! We are leaving. The Remoaners complain like children until they get their way (which won't happen). Arguing it's democracy is redundant - they don't respect the winning vote. I will be glad when it's finally done. It may sound trite but the UK survived two world wars...we shall prosper out of the EU. this is a myth, we have always had control of our own borders! As anyone who drives to France will tell you your actually checked in Calais by British border control - as at any other port in the UK which has dealings with Europe! It's a myth about uncontrolled immigration too! EU rules only allow FREE MOVEMENT for 3 MONTHS in any EU state Since 2004! Over 3 months then you have to have sufficient capital to support YOURSELF. You have to have comprehensive medical insurance. Not be a security threat. The only exception to these rules are people employed who pay NI & TAX, students & the rich. Guess which country didn't adopt these measures? Yep UK. Also when the new eastern EU country's joined there was a 7 year freeze on them moving - only 3 member States didn't enforce this - UK, Ireland & Sweden! So why do you think this wasn't brought up in the campaign? Labour & Tory government's didn't enforce it - looks bad for both. Instead of reading just the paper's which are on your side of the argument - search it out. The UK had CONTROL over immigration from the new member states, thats what you guys wanted right? So were you happy about that? " the day UK control, Doesn't have to be given by, Or require the permission of, Any other organisation. . The day UK control requirements, Are entirely the responsibility of, And totally decided by, The UK,and the UK alone. That's a day I'll be happy. . Let's face it, if control has to be given, Or requires permission , It's not really control, It's being controlled.  | |||
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"Agree 100percent with the post above well said Me too. I voted to leave. It's a generational thing. The 18-29 year olds lied to in 1973 and 75 about the glorious EEC including those born in 1978 such ad myself who've seen the ruin mass immigration without border controls, EU 'laws' dominating and overtaking our parliaments sovereignty as well as the overall decline of the UK in terms of there being way too may people living here (proof being the pressure put on the NHS, traffic near gridlock on a daily basis, shortages in housing) has been rectified by the Leave voters. Give it 40 years and the myriad Remainers, the youth who voted to stay, will also turn towards the Leave viewpoint. It is not racist to want border and immigration controls in any country - it is common sense. Economic migration is one thing, unchecked Shengen style stupidity leads to the ruin of countries. Finally, if the EU is so great, why is there mass unemployment in Italy, Spain, parts of France and why is Greece bankrupt? Why do other EU states have to bail them out with no word on when it will be paid back? Why should the UK pay a ridiculous €50 billion just to leave???! Where would that money go? The media sew division on this subject. Stirring the pot continually. The politicians don't unite behind the majority vote and say it's done let's move forward and optimistically, hell, we had a petulant year of a former PM who threw his toys out of his pram when the NO Vote lost and then he left office instead of proudly following the people's mandate! We are leaving. The Remoaners complain like children until they get their way (which won't happen). Arguing it's democracy is redundant - they don't respect the winning vote. I will be glad when it's finally done. It may sound trite but the UK survived two world wars...we shall prosper out of the EU. this is a myth, we have always had control of our own borders! As anyone who drives to France will tell you your actually checked in Calais by British border control - as at any other port in the UK which has dealings with Europe! It's a myth about uncontrolled immigration too! EU rules only allow FREE MOVEMENT for 3 MONTHS in any EU state Since 2004! Over 3 months then you have to have sufficient capital to support YOURSELF. You have to have comprehensive medical insurance. Not be a security threat. The only exception to these rules are people employed who pay NI & TAX, students & the rich. Guess which country didn't adopt these measures? Yep UK. Also when the new eastern EU country's joined there was a 7 year freeze on them moving - only 3 member States didn't enforce this - UK, Ireland & Sweden! So why do you think this wasn't brought up in the campaign? Labour & Tory government's didn't enforce it - looks bad for both. Instead of reading just the paper's which are on your side of the argument - search it out. The UK had CONTROL over immigration from the new member states, thats what you guys wanted right? So were you happy about that? the day UK control, Doesn't have to be given by, Or require the permission of, Any other organisation. . The day UK control requirements, Are entirely the responsibility of, And totally decided by, The UK,and the UK alone. That's a day I'll be happy. . Let's face it, if control has to be given, Or requires permission , It's not really control, It's being controlled. "If the UK can leave, it's always had control. | |||
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"Agree 100percent with the post above well said Me too. I voted to leave. It's a generational thing. The 18-29 year olds lied to in 1973 and 75 about the glorious EEC including those born in 1978 such ad myself who've seen the ruin mass immigration without border controls, EU 'laws' dominating and overtaking our parliaments sovereignty as well as the overall decline of the UK in terms of there being way too may people living here (proof being the pressure put on the NHS, traffic near gridlock on a daily basis, shortages in housing) has been rectified by the Leave voters. Give it 40 years and the myriad Remainers, the youth who voted to stay, will also turn towards the Leave viewpoint. It is not racist to want border and immigration controls in any country - it is common sense. Economic migration is one thing, unchecked Shengen style stupidity leads to the ruin of countries. Finally, if the EU is so great, why is there mass unemployment in Italy, Spain, parts of France and why is Greece bankrupt? Why do other EU states have to bail them out with no word on when it will be paid back? Why should the UK pay a ridiculous €50 billion just to leave???! Where would that money go? The media sew division on this subject. Stirring the pot continually. The politicians don't unite behind the majority vote and say it's done let's move forward and optimistically, hell, we had a petulant year of a former PM who threw his toys out of his pram when the NO Vote lost and then he left office instead of proudly following the people's mandate! We are leaving. The Remoaners complain like children until they get their way (which won't happen). Arguing it's democracy is redundant - they don't respect the winning vote. I will be glad when it's finally done. It may sound trite but the UK survived two world wars...we shall prosper out of the EU. this is a myth, we have always had control of our own borders! As anyone who drives to France will tell you your actually checked in Calais by British border control - as at any other port in the UK which has dealings with Europe! It's a myth about uncontrolled immigration too! EU rules only allow FREE MOVEMENT for 3 MONTHS in any EU state Since 2004! Over 3 months then you have to have sufficient capital to support YOURSELF. You have to have comprehensive medical insurance. Not be a security threat. The only exception to these rules are people employed who pay NI & TAX, students & the rich. Guess which country didn't adopt these measures? Yep UK. Also when the new eastern EU country's joined there was a 7 year freeze on them moving - only 3 member States didn't enforce this - UK, Ireland & Sweden! So why do you think this wasn't brought up in the campaign? Labour & Tory government's didn't enforce it - looks bad for both. Instead of reading just the paper's which are on your side of the argument - search it out. The UK had CONTROL over immigration from the new member states, thats what you guys wanted right? So were you happy about that? the day UK control, Doesn't have to be given by, Or require the permission of, Any other organisation. . The day UK control requirements, Are entirely the responsibility of, And totally decided by, The UK,and the UK alone. That's a day I'll be happy. . Let's face it, if control has to be given, Or requires permission , It's not really control, It's being controlled.
If the UK can leave, it's always had control. "And now that control has been exercised so we should all be happy. Unless you want to live the rest of your life feeling like a loser | |||
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"Agree 100percent with the post above well said Me too. I voted to leave. It's a generational thing. The 18-29 year olds lied to in 1973 and 75 about the glorious EEC including those born in 1978 such ad myself who've seen the ruin mass immigration without border controls, EU 'laws' dominating and overtaking our parliaments sovereignty as well as the overall decline of the UK in terms of there being way too may people living here (proof being the pressure put on the NHS, traffic near gridlock on a daily basis, shortages in housing) has been rectified by the Leave voters. Give it 40 years and the myriad Remainers, the youth who voted to stay, will also turn towards the Leave viewpoint. It is not racist to want border and immigration controls in any country - it is common sense. Economic migration is one thing, unchecked Shengen style stupidity leads to the ruin of countries. Finally, if the EU is so great, why is there mass unemployment in Italy, Spain, parts of France and why is Greece bankrupt? Why do other EU states have to bail them out with no word on when it will be paid back? Why should the UK pay a ridiculous €50 billion just to leave???! Where would that money go? The media sew division on this subject. Stirring the pot continually. The politicians don't unite behind the majority vote and say it's done let's move forward and optimistically, hell, we had a petulant year of a former PM who threw his toys out of his pram when the NO Vote lost and then he left office instead of proudly following the people's mandate! We are leaving. The Remoaners complain like children until they get their way (which won't happen). Arguing it's democracy is redundant - they don't respect the winning vote. I will be glad when it's finally done. It may sound trite but the UK survived two world wars...we shall prosper out of the EU. this is a myth, we have always had control of our own borders! As anyone who drives to France will tell you your actually checked in Calais by British border control - as at any other port in the UK which has dealings with Europe! It's a myth about uncontrolled immigration too! EU rules only allow FREE MOVEMENT for 3 MONTHS in any EU state Since 2004! Over 3 months then you have to have sufficient capital to support YOURSELF. You have to have comprehensive medical insurance. Not be a security threat. The only exception to these rules are people employed who pay NI & TAX, students & the rich. Guess which country didn't adopt these measures? Yep UK. Also when the new eastern EU country's joined there was a 7 year freeze on them moving - only 3 member States didn't enforce this - UK, Ireland & Sweden! So why do you think this wasn't brought up in the campaign? Labour & Tory government's didn't enforce it - looks bad for both. Instead of reading just the paper's which are on your side of the argument - search it out. The UK had CONTROL over immigration from the new member states, thats what you guys wanted right? So were you happy about that? the day UK control, Doesn't have to be given by, Or require the permission of, Any other organisation. . The day UK control requirements, Are entirely the responsibility of, And totally decided by, The UK,and the UK alone. That's a day I'll be happy. . Let's face it, if control has to be given, Or requires permission , It's not really control, It's being controlled.
If the UK can leave, it's always had control.
And now that control has been exercised so we should all be happy. Unless you want to live the rest of your life feeling like a loser"I'm not a loser, that's why I don't have to blame the EU or foreigners for any of my personal shortcomings | |||
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"Agree 100percent with the post above well said Me too. I voted to leave. It's a generational thing. The 18-29 year olds lied to in 1973 and 75 about the glorious EEC including those born in 1978 such ad myself who've seen the ruin mass immigration without border controls, EU 'laws' dominating and overtaking our parliaments sovereignty as well as the overall decline of the UK in terms of there being way too may people living here (proof being the pressure put on the NHS, traffic near gridlock on a daily basis, shortages in housing) has been rectified by the Leave voters. Give it 40 years and the myriad Remainers, the youth who voted to stay, will also turn towards the Leave viewpoint. It is not racist to want border and immigration controls in any country - it is common sense. Economic migration is one thing, unchecked Shengen style stupidity leads to the ruin of countries. Finally, if the EU is so great, why is there mass unemployment in Italy, Spain, parts of France and why is Greece bankrupt? Why do other EU states have to bail them out with no word on when it will be paid back? Why should the UK pay a ridiculous €50 billion just to leave???! Where would that money go? The media sew division on this subject. Stirring the pot continually. The politicians don't unite behind the majority vote and say it's done let's move forward and optimistically, hell, we had a petulant year of a former PM who threw his toys out of his pram when the NO Vote lost and then he left office instead of proudly following the people's mandate! We are leaving. The Remoaners complain like children until they get their way (which won't happen). Arguing it's democracy is redundant - they don't respect the winning vote. I will be glad when it's finally done. It may sound trite but the UK survived two world wars...we shall prosper out of the EU. this is a myth, we have always had control of our own borders! As anyone who drives to France will tell you your actually checked in Calais by British border control - as at any other port in the UK which has dealings with Europe! It's a myth about uncontrolled immigration too! EU rules only allow FREE MOVEMENT for 3 MONTHS in any EU state Since 2004! Over 3 months then you have to have sufficient capital to support YOURSELF. You have to have comprehensive medical insurance. Not be a security threat. The only exception to these rules are people employed who pay NI & TAX, students & the rich. Guess which country didn't adopt these measures? Yep UK. Also when the new eastern EU country's joined there was a 7 year freeze on them moving - only 3 member States didn't enforce this - UK, Ireland & Sweden! So why do you think this wasn't brought up in the campaign? Labour & Tory government's didn't enforce it - looks bad for both. Instead of reading just the paper's which are on your side of the argument - search it out. The UK had CONTROL over immigration from the new member states, thats what you guys wanted right? So were you happy about that? the day UK control, Doesn't have to be given by, Or require the permission of, Any other organisation. . The day UK control requirements, Are entirely the responsibility of, And totally decided by, The UK,and the UK alone. That's a day I'll be happy. . Let's face it, if control has to be given, Or requires permission , It's not really control, It's being controlled.
If the UK can leave, it's always had control.
And now that control has been exercised so we should all be happy. Unless you want to live the rest of your life feeling like a loser
I'm not a loser, that's why I don't have to blame the EU or foreigners for any of my personal shortcomings "Just as well, it would take forever | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Agree 100percent with the post above well said Me too. I voted to leave. It's a generational thing. The 18-29 year olds lied to in 1973 and 75 about the glorious EEC including those born in 1978 such ad myself who've seen the ruin mass immigration without border controls, EU 'laws' dominating and overtaking our parliaments sovereignty as well as the overall decline of the UK in terms of there being way too may people living here (proof being the pressure put on the NHS, traffic near gridlock on a daily basis, shortages in housing) has been rectified by the Leave voters. Give it 40 years and the myriad Remainers, the youth who voted to stay, will also turn towards the Leave viewpoint. It is not racist to want border and immigration controls in any country - it is common sense. Economic migration is one thing, unchecked Shengen style stupidity leads to the ruin of countries. Finally, if the EU is so great, why is there mass unemployment in Italy, Spain, parts of France and why is Greece bankrupt? Why do other EU states have to bail them out with no word on when it will be paid back? Why should the UK pay a ridiculous €50 billion just to leave???! Where would that money go? The media sew division on this subject. Stirring the pot continually. The politicians don't unite behind the majority vote and say it's done let's move forward and optimistically, hell, we had a petulant year of a former PM who threw his toys out of his pram when the NO Vote lost and then he left office instead of proudly following the people's mandate! We are leaving. The Remoaners complain like children until they get their way (which won't happen). Arguing it's democracy is redundant - they don't respect the winning vote. I will be glad when it's finally done. It may sound trite but the UK survived two world wars...we shall prosper out of the EU. this is a myth, we have always had control of our own borders! As anyone who drives to France will tell you your actually checked in Calais by British border control - as at any other port in the UK which has dealings with Europe! It's a myth about uncontrolled immigration too! EU rules only allow FREE MOVEMENT for 3 MONTHS in any EU state Since 2004! Over 3 months then you have to have sufficient capital to support YOURSELF. You have to have comprehensive medical insurance. Not be a security threat. The only exception to these rules are people employed who pay NI & TAX, students & the rich. Guess which country didn't adopt these measures? Yep UK. Also when the new eastern EU country's joined there was a 7 year freeze on them moving - only 3 member States didn't enforce this - UK, Ireland & Sweden! So why do you think this wasn't brought up in the campaign? Labour & Tory government's didn't enforce it - looks bad for both. Instead of reading just the paper's which are on your side of the argument - search it out. The UK had CONTROL over immigration from the new member states, thats what you guys wanted right? So were you happy about that? the day UK control, Doesn't have to be given by, Or require the permission of, Any other organisation. . The day UK control requirements, Are entirely the responsibility of, And totally decided by, The UK,and the UK alone. That's a day I'll be happy. . Let's face it, if control has to be given, Or requires permission , It's not really control, It's being controlled.
If the UK can leave, it's always had control. "That'strue,it's the only real, entirely UK dependant control, We've had in decades. . On the upside, Look how well that worked out. . I was thinking, With Brexit having proved, Just how successful our decision making is. Maybe we should have done it years ago. | |||
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"... and they find out england smells of cigarettes and diappointment So instead of going back or finding somewhere that smells close to rabid shit holes that many of them originated from they choose to stay You must not be a big fan of international travel if you think the rest of the world outside the UK is a "rabid shit hole" Maybe you should get a better travel agent? Let me see, America east west coast gulf and Caribbean, yep that's been done Diving in the Caribbean skiing in the Catskill mountains and the sierra nevadas Done that Skiing in USA Spain France Italy Germany Austria Bulgaria Switzerland, but must say livigno in Italy will always be my fave. Sailing Lago Como, cycling wine tasting Lago Garda so so nice, and anything Italian is alwAys a bonus. Diving in Egypt, amazing diving but generally speaking lots of the country can only be described as an open sewer. Morroco and the mountains is actually the best and nicest Muslim country that I have been to. The Gambia really liked it, loved swimming with wild dolphins Sardinia, argh Italy once again amazing micro beaches fabulous food Tunisia shit hole open sewer Mexico superb diving with sharks great accommodation, fab food but the beer is awful. Spain Majorca and al, the interior amazing times, some of it is blackpool with sun, but city's like Seville are truly stunning. I adore Palma and the swinging fun in Gran Canary during winter is great with fabulous clubs. Ireland is ok, fun times to be had, love the beaches in wales, but the rain is a downer Lithuania has great food and has made huge strides since the cold days of communism Turkey is OK but I can't stand the constant harassment, and wouldn't go there again Adore Belgium and the beer, will be there in a couple of weeks time France is OK, but much of it shuts up way to early although I like Perone and Arras, and will be Cap D'Adge in July I could go, on about the other countries I've visited, but why bother, and as for a better travel agent, I prefer to plan my life my self Just need to plan where to go in September, I mean after all it will be the 6th holiday this year funded by a capitalist self earned lifestyle And you still think that all of those places are "rabid shit holes" to use your own words. Maybe you need to change your attitude rather than your travel agent then." I didn't say all are, I said some are. Lake Tahoe was truly amazing for ski destination, high mountain ranges all the way over to Reno, turn 180 degrees and you look at barran nevada desert San Francisco is fabulous, and loved riding the tram cars from fishermans wharf. Northern Italy is my favourite place in whole world, just a pity that some of the larger lake side towns now have there own squatter camps. Switzerland is the cleanest place that I have ever visited, but Austria come a close second and has great Apres The Gambia was fun and loved meeting Charlie the crocodile Spent a week getting a New York State license for gas fitting, and thoroughly enjoyed the free holiday in up state finger lake region Sardinia is truly gorgeous, but that's Italy for you, class sophistication and style. Holland is fun, if a little flat | |||
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"Agree 100percent with the post above well said Me too. I voted to leave. It's a generational thing. The 18-29 year olds lied to in 1973 and 75 about the glorious EEC including those born in 1978 such ad myself who've seen the ruin mass immigration without border controls, EU 'laws' dominating and overtaking our parliaments sovereignty as well as the overall decline of the UK in terms of there being way too may people living here (proof being the pressure put on the NHS, traffic near gridlock on a daily basis, shortages in housing) has been rectified by the Leave voters. Give it 40 years and the myriad Remainers, the youth who voted to stay, will also turn towards the Leave viewpoint. It is not racist to want border and immigration controls in any country - it is common sense. Economic migration is one thing, unchecked Shengen style stupidity leads to the ruin of countries. Finally, if the EU is so great, why is there mass unemployment in Italy, Spain, parts of France and why is Greece bankrupt? Why do other EU states have to bail them out with no word on when it will be paid back? Why should the UK pay a ridiculous €50 billion just to leave???! Where would that money go? The media sew division on this subject. Stirring the pot continually. The politicians don't unite behind the majority vote and say it's done let's move forward and optimistically, hell, we had a petulant year of a former PM who threw his toys out of his pram when the NO Vote lost and then he left office instead of proudly following the people's mandate! We are leaving. The Remoaners complain like children until they get their way (which won't happen). Arguing it's democracy is redundant - they don't respect the winning vote. I will be glad when it's finally done. It may sound trite but the UK survived two world wars...we shall prosper out of the EU. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"what are these disadvantages? The inability to set rates etc with others outside the union So then 1) why were prominant leave campaigners promoting the Norway model then? 2) BuckandBun thinks the tarrifs are inconsequential. If so what disadvantage is there to them then? -Matt You are misquoting me / misunderstood me on 2). I never said tariffs are inconsequential. I said the £10 admin fee on a large business import order was inconsequential. Sorry not tarrifs then. But whatever it is you are saying is inconsequential about the customs union, is now being said by someone else to be a disadvantage to being in the cusoms union. -Matt Ffs another expert hair splitter " | |||
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