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Proportional Representation ?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Even tho I except UKIP are a busted flush now  & I voted for them .
Quite a few times on here people post they have one or No M Ps !
Yet they Won the third highest amount of Votes !!!
So is now the time to sought a P R system ?
Yes I know it's hard as we vote for an M P ?
But surely if a party wins 20 Per Cent of the vote they should have 20 per cent of the M P s !
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Even tho I except UKIP are a busted flush now & I voted for them .
Quite a few times on here people post they have one or No M Ps !
Yet they Won the third highest amount of Votes !!!
So is now the time to sought a P R system ?
Yes I know it's hard as we vote for an M P ?
But surely if a party wins 20 Per Cent of the vote they should have 20 per cent of the M P s !
"
you will never change the system as it favours the 2 strongest parties. Is that fair? Who cares it stops some idiots being elected. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No weve only voted against it 4 or 5 years back No we didn't ! That was a referendum on the alternative vote !
Entirely different ! "
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Nobody wants it, its a shit idea |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Even tho I except UKIP are a busted flush now & I voted for them .
Quite a few times on here people post they have one or No M Ps !
Yet they Won the third highest amount of Votes !!!
So is now the time to sought a P R system ?
Yes I know it's hard as we vote for an M P ?
But surely if a party wins 20 Per Cent of the vote they should have 20 per cent of the M P s !
you will never change the system as it favours the 2 strongest parties. Is that fair? Who cares it stops some idiots being elected."
.
This.
Ive seen the general public, there fucking morons who get into arguments over parking spaces.
If left to these people we'd have half of parliament filled with ukip and raving loonys arguing over total piffle!
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The trouble with PR is its very complicated, relies on alliances and nothing ever gets done."
So it's fine to have an undemocratic unfair system then ?
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"The trouble with PR is its very complicated, relies on alliances and nothing ever gets done. So it's fine to have an undemocratic unfair system then ? "
I never said that. All systems have advantages and disadvantages.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I don't know the figures , but can you imagine if Brexit had been voted for on our First past the post system , only to be discovered more people voted the other way round !
How can all votes vounting equally be complicated ?
I live in an area where my vote doesn't count for anything at all , unless I voted labour !
And I never will !
A ton of hienz beans would win for them if it stood !!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The trouble with PR is its very complicated, relies on alliances and nothing ever gets done. So it's fine to have an undemocratic unfair system then ? "
it's not about being fair it's about power. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't know the figures , but can you imagine if Brexit had been voted for on our First past the post system , only to be discovered more people voted the other way round !
How can all votes vounting equally be complicated ?
I live in an area where my vote doesn't count for anything at all , unless I voted labour !
And I never will !
A ton of hienz beans would win for them if it stood !!!"
Move |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I don't know the figures , but can you imagine if Brexit had been voted for on our First past the post system , only to be discovered more people voted the other way round !
How can all votes vounting equally be complicated ?
I live in an area where my vote doesn't count for anything at all , unless I voted labour !
And I never will !
A ton of hienz beans would win for them if it stood !!!
Move "
why should I have to ? |
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Looking from the outside from a country with pr, the fptp system seems crazy. It certainly isn't what you'd call democracy. It results in a lot more certainty but leaves an awful lot of people with effectively no voice. |
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"The trouble with PR is its very complicated, relies on alliances and nothing ever gets done."
That's the advantage of having a dictator system though. Quick decisions, acting on, with no messing about
First past the post is undemocratic. PR much more democratic. But, I do agree, it would make it difficult for the big decision to be made, as we would have a continual coalition. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The trouble with PR is its very complicated, relies on alliances and nothing ever gets done.
That's the advantage of having a dictator system though. Quick decisions, acting on, with no messing about
First past the post is undemocratic. PR much more democratic. But, I do agree, it would make it difficult for the big decision to be made, as we would have a continual coalition."
Maybe the british people and our politicians would learn to compromise more. Rather than being idealogues. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The trouble with PR is its very complicated, relies on alliances and nothing ever gets done.
That's the advantage of having a dictator system though. Quick decisions, acting on, with no messing about
First past the post is undemocratic. PR much more democratic. But, I do agree, it would make it difficult for the big decision to be made, as we would have a continual coalition.
Maybe the british people and our politicians would learn to compromise more. Rather than being idealogues."
Good point well made  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I'd rather have coalitions , rather than having no real say in who is elected !
And just think how much it would terrify the SNP lol !
Ironically our current system actually saved the lib Dems last time !
Funny that !
I haven't heard them mention P R for a while  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Looking from the outside from a country with pr, the fptp system seems crazy. It certainly isn't what you'd call democracy. It results in a lot more certainty but leaves an awful lot of people with effectively no voice. "
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Ive seen and worked with these people, Im not entirely sure i want to give them a voice |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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First past the post is probably a better way to go now than its ever been. People are not as loyal to parties as they used to be. Living in a Labour stronghold my vote has always been pretty pointless but gradually things are changing. The party with the best/most realistic/affordable or whatever overall policies will win. At the moment that is the Tories but at any time it could be anybody if they get their policies right. If a party cannot get enough votes to win elections then it is their own fault and they need to understand what people want and appeal to as broad a range of people as possible. Simple   |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The real problem with democracy is the choice of candidates, we elect the political classes time and time again .It doesnt matter which party . Half of them go to eton or other select schools.
The all have degrees in politics and law and almost no real life working experiences outside of politics.
A Meritocracy would be better were only capable qualified people get their hands on our services.You wouldnt want a plumber to decided on your heart surgery but its ok for a lawyer to run the nhs...i know they get advised but do they have the knowledge base to make the call. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The real problem with democracy is the choice of candidates, we elect the political classes time and time again .It doesnt matter which party . Half of them go to eton or other select schools.
The all have degrees in politics and law and almost no real life working experiences outside of politics.
A Meritocracy would be better were only capable qualified people get their hands on our services.You wouldnt want a plumber to decided on your heart surgery but its ok for a lawyer to run the nhs...i know they get advised but do they have the knowledge base to make the call."
.
Youve just described Nigel farage for Christs sake |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The real problem with democracy is the choice of candidates, we elect the political classes time and time again .It doesnt matter which party . Half of them go to eton or other select schools.
The all have degrees in politics and law and almost no real life working experiences outside of politics.
A Meritocracy would be better were only capable qualified people get their hands on our services.You wouldnt want a plumber to decided on your heart surgery but its ok for a lawyer to run the nhs...i know they get advised but do they have the knowledge base to make the call..
Youve just described Nigel farage for Christs sake "
Good point. And if anybody was any good at their job they'd do that job and stay out of politics  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There isn't a single top level management job at county or NHS level that pays less than a cabinet posting? Or even the pm.
Theres two types of people in politics those that get in as a vocation and those that get in two rob you blind |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No weve only voted against it 4 or 5 years back No we didn't ! That was a referendum on the alternative vote !
Entirely different ! "
Yes, it was very different from PR, but it would have been a step in the right direction.
Had we, as a nation, opted for AV back in the 2011 referendum we may be a lot closer to PR than we are now, as when we rejected AV, I suspect that we have closed the door on the issue for quite some time |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There isn't a single top level management job at county or NHS level that pays less than a cabinet posting? Or even the pm.
Theres two types of people in politics those that get in as a vocation and those that get in two rob you blind"
Me and my friends have said the following time and time again:
MP's should not have a secondary job to being an MP. It pays enough on it's own and any other job is a potential conflict of interest.
Secondly, all the wages of politician's should be based on the national average earning per head, with penalties for the amount of people who are unemployed, on zero hour contracts, part time work over 25 (and if not raising a child), and for the amount of people not working on further training or education post A-levels.
Maybe that would help restore public faith in politicians and encourage cross-party efforts to put in effective domestic policies. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There isn't a single top level management job at county or NHS level that pays less than a cabinet posting? Or even the pm.
Theres two types of people in politics those that get in as a vocation and those that get in two rob you blind
Me and my friends have said the following time and time again:
MP's should not have a secondary job to being an MP. It pays enough on it's own and any other job is a potential conflict of interest.
Secondly, all the wages of politician's should be based on the national average earning per head, with penalties for the amount of people who are unemployed, on zero hour contracts, part time work over 25 (and if not raising a child), and for the amount of people not working on further training or education post A-levels.
Maybe that would help restore public faith in politicians and encourage cross-party efforts to put in effective domestic policies."
Value based wages. Awesome. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Does anyone know what the make up of mp s in parliment would be now if the last Election had of been based on P R ?
I know it would change st a new Election as obviously people living in England could vote for the SNP or sin fien or Dup or people in the North of Ireland could vote con or labour .
Whoops Silly Me
That would mean true democracy
Sorry apologies to all !!!
Except Bobbangs as hel be laughing his cock off now |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No weve only voted against it 4 or 5 years back No we didn't ! That was a referendum on the alternative vote !
Entirely different !
Yes, it was very different from PR, but it would have been a step in the right direction.
Had we, as a nation, opted for AV back in the 2011 referendum we may be a lot closer to PR than we are now, as when we rejected AV, I suspect that we have closed the door on the issue for quite some time "
Unlike the Scottish issue then? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Does anyone know what the make up of mp s in parliment would be now if the last Election had of been based on P R ?
I know it would change st a new Election as obviously people living in England could vote for the SNP or sin fien or Dup or people in the North of Ireland could vote con or labour .
Whoops Silly Me
That would mean true democracy
Sorry apologies to all !!!
Except Bobbangs as hel be laughing his cock off now "
The Torres and UKIP got 52% of the total vote between them. So we would have a Tory/kipper coalition with a majority of about 20MPs and a super hard Brexit. Still think PR is a good idea? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The real problem with democracy is the choice of candidates, we elect the political classes time and time again .It doesnt matter which party . Half of them go to eton or other select schools.
The all have degrees in politics and law and almost no real life working experiences outside of politics.
A Meritocracy would be better were only capable qualified people get their hands on our services.You wouldnt want a plumber to decided on your heart surgery but its ok for a lawyer to run the nhs...i know they get advised but do they have the knowledge base to make the call..
Youve just described Nigel farage for Christs sake
Good point. And if anybody was any good at their job they'd do that job and stay out of politics "
Or after ive thought about it, even worse he just described Donald trump.
I happen to think that we've already got the brightest and best qualified in government.
What i would add is that all we need to do is remove the corruption and lobbying of multi nationals from it!
And thats really easy, just start jailing some of the fucker's for ten years, trust me you won't have to jail many, once they realise the game is up, they'll quit real quick |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The real problem with democracy is the choice of candidates, we elect the political classes time and time again .It doesnt matter which party . Half of them go to eton or other select schools.
The all have degrees in politics and law and almost no real life working experiences outside of politics.
A Meritocracy would be better were only capable qualified people get their hands on our services.You wouldnt want a plumber to decided on your heart surgery but its ok for a lawyer to run the nhs...i know they get advised but do they have the knowledge base to make the call..
Youve just described Nigel farage for Christs sake
Good point. And if anybody was any good at their job they'd do that job and stay out of politics
Or after ive thought about it, even worse he just described Donald trump.
I happen to think that we've already got the brightest and best qualified in government.
What i would add is that all we need to do is remove the corruption and lobbying of multi nationals from it!
And thats really easy, just start jailing some of the fucker's for ten years, trust me you won't have to jail many, once they realise the game is up, they'll quit real quick"
Nothing like trump or farage .I was thinking more singapore.The people we have are bureaucrats we need techocrats with expertise not etonian twats born to rule .Although experts arent popular today . |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The trouble with PR is its very complicated, relies on alliances and nothing ever gets done. So it's fine to have an undemocratic unfair system then ? "
It's not undemocratic, or unfair. It is a democratic system. All democratic systems have pluses and minuses. A minus of PR is that you would lose locally elected officials. You wouldn't have anyone to fight for your area. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Does anyone know what the make up of mp s in parliment would be now if the last Election had of been based on P R ?
I know it would change st a new Election as obviously people living in England could vote for the SNP or sin fien or Dup or people in the North of Ireland could vote con or labour .
Whoops Silly Me
That would mean true democracy
Sorry apologies to all !!!
Except Bobbangs as hel be laughing his cock off now
The Torres and UKIP got 52% of the total vote between them. So we would have a Tory/kipper coalition with a majority of about 20MPs and a super hard Brexit. Still think PR is a good idea?"
Well we have a tory goverment with kipper policies and could brexit get any harder?.Mr suit would approve .Also PR would benefit the greens.They could be king makers . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The real problem with democracy is the choice of candidates, we elect the political classes time and time again .It doesnt matter which party . Half of them go to eton or other select schools.
The all have degrees in politics and law and almost no real life working experiences outside of politics.
A Meritocracy would be better were only capable qualified people get their hands on our services.You wouldnt want a plumber to decided on your heart surgery but its ok for a lawyer to run the nhs...i know they get advised but do they have the knowledge base to make the call..
Youve just described Nigel farage for Christs sake
Good point. And if anybody was any good at their job they'd do that job and stay out of politics
Or after ive thought about it, even worse he just described Donald trump.
I happen to think that we've already got the brightest and best qualified in government.
What i would add is that all we need to do is remove the corruption and lobbying of multi nationals from it!
And thats really easy, just start jailing some of the fucker's for ten years, trust me you won't have to jail many, once they realise the game is up, they'll quit real quickNothing like trump or farage .I was thinking more singapore.The people we have are bureaucrats we need techocrats with expertise not etonian twats born to rule .Although experts arent popular today . "
.
I hate Singapore, its a fucking authoritarian hell hole.. Who the fuck wants a £2000 fine and six weeks in jail for having to packs of chewing gum in your bag, Singapore is one of those couples you meet on holiday, the first week there a laugh and your going out of your way to meet up and on the second week your going out of your way to avoid them because theyve started to annoy you |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The real problem with democracy is the choice of candidates, we elect the political classes time and time again .It doesnt matter which party . Half of them go to eton or other select schools.
The all have degrees in politics and law and almost no real life working experiences outside of politics.
A Meritocracy would be better were only capable qualified people get their hands on our services.You wouldnt want a plumber to decided on your heart surgery but its ok for a lawyer to run the nhs...i know they get advised but do they have the knowledge base to make the call..
Youve just described Nigel farage for Christs sake
Good point. And if anybody was any good at their job they'd do that job and stay out of politics
Or after ive thought about it, even worse he just described Donald trump.
I happen to think that we've already got the brightest and best qualified in government.
What i would add is that all we need to do is remove the corruption and lobbying of multi nationals from it!
And thats really easy, just start jailing some of the fucker's for ten years, trust me you won't have to jail many, once they realise the game is up, they'll quit real quickNothing like trump or farage .I was thinking more singapore.The people we have are bureaucrats we need techocrats with expertise not etonian twats born to rule .Although experts arent popular today . .
I hate Singapore, its a fucking authoritarian hell hole.. Who the fuck wants a £2000 fine and six weeks in jail for having to packs of chewing gum in your bag, Singapore is one of those couples you meet on holiday, the first week there a laugh and your going out of your way to meet up and on the second week your going out of your way to avoid them because theyve started to annoy you "
Benevolent dictatorships are much better.
Plato's "The republic" is a good read on the subject.Here's what he says.
The best form of government is described therein to be one made of Philosopher Kings.
A State can only be in harmony with the Universe when led by superior rulers. A superior ruler by definition would not rule for self-interest and therefore would not be a tyrant.
Everyone in the Republic simply follows the leadership of the best people because only the Philosopher Kings have the ability to see the universe and how the State, and its citizens, can be at harmony with it.
Put into English - the best leaders would be the best and most capable, with enough philosophical insight to bring the best out of any state and its citizens and not screw it up with self-interested lobbying and other bull. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Even tho I except UKIP are a busted flush now & I voted for them .
Quite a few times on here people post they have one or No M Ps !
Yet they Won the third highest amount of Votes !!!
So is now the time to sought a P R system ?
Yes I know it's hard as we vote for an M P ?
But surely if a party wins 20 Per Cent of the vote they should have 20 per cent of the M P s !
"
Even if UKIP gets 20% of all the general election votes but never manages to get the highest in any single constituency why should other parties who have got more votes give up their seat for a looser ? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Does anyone know what the make up of mp s in parliment would be now if the last Election had of been based on P R ?
I know it would change st a new Election as obviously people living in England could vote for the SNP or sin fien or Dup or people in the North of Ireland could vote con or labour .
Whoops Silly Me
That would mean true democracy
Sorry apologies to all !!!
Except Bobbangs as hel be laughing his cock off now
The Torres and UKIP got 52% of the total vote between them. So we would have a Tory/kipper coalition with a majority of about 20MPs and a super hard Brexit. Still think PR is a good idea?"
Er Yes that sounds fine to me  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Does anyone know what the make up of mp s in parliment would be now if the last Election had of been based on P R ?
I know it would change st a new Election as obviously people living in England could vote for the SNP or sin fien or Dup or people in the North of Ireland could vote con or labour .
Whoops Silly Me
That would mean true democracy
Sorry apologies to all !!!
Except Bobbangs as hel be laughing his cock off now
The Torres and UKIP got 52% of the total vote between them. So we would have a Tory/kipper coalition with a majority of about 20MPs and a super hard Brexit. Still think PR is a good idea?Well we have a tory goverment with kipper policies and could brexit get any harder?.Mr suit would approve .Also PR would benefit the greens.They could be king makers . "
have to admit I've a soft spot for the Greens st least they are Genuine and truly believe in what they say even if I don't agree with a lot of it ! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Does anyone know what the make up of mp s in parliment would be now if the last Election had of been based on P R ?
I know it would change st a new Election as obviously people living in England could vote for the SNP or sin fien or Dup or people in the North of Ireland could vote con or labour .
Whoops Silly Me
That would mean true democracy
Sorry apologies to all !!!
Except Bobbangs as hel be laughing his cock off now
The Torres and UKIP got 52% of the total vote between them. So we would have a Tory/kipper coalition with a majority of about 20MPs and a super hard Brexit. Still think PR is a good idea?Well we have a tory goverment with kipper policies and could brexit get any harder?.Mr suit would approve .Also PR would benefit the greens.They could be king makers . "
That is a problem with PR....small parties, acting as "kingmakers" get an over-represented influence. But in the last election Grerns would have been pushed out as not required. Tory/UKIP had a 52% share of the vote between them (oddly the same proportion of leavers!) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Does anyone know what the make up of mp s in parliment would be now if the last Election had of been based on P R ?
I know it would change st a new Election as obviously people living in England could vote for the SNP or sin fien or Dup or people in the North of Ireland could vote con or labour .
Whoops Silly Me
That would mean true democracy
Sorry apologies to all !!!
Except Bobbangs as hel be laughing his cock off now
The Torres and UKIP got 52% of the total vote between them. So we would have a Tory/kipper coalition with a majority of about 20MPs and a super hard Brexit. Still think PR is a good idea?Well we have a tory goverment with kipper policies and could brexit get any harder?.Mr suit would approve .Also PR would benefit the greens.They could be king makers . have to admit I've a soft spot for the Greens st least they are Genuine and truly believe in what they say even if I don't agree with a lot of it ! "
Greens just want to preserve the earth for humanity,which can only be a good thing . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Does anyone know what the make up of mp s in parliment would be now if the last Election had of been based on P R ?
I know it would change st a new Election as obviously people living in England could vote for the SNP or sin fien or Dup or people in the North of Ireland could vote con or labour .
Whoops Silly Me
That would mean true democracy
Sorry apologies to all !!!
Except Bobbangs as hel be laughing his cock off now
The Torres and UKIP got 52% of the total vote between them. So we would have a Tory/kipper coalition with a majority of about 20MPs and a super hard Brexit. Still think PR is a good idea?Well we have a tory goverment with kipper policies and could brexit get any harder?.Mr suit would approve .Also PR would benefit the greens.They could be king makers . have to admit I've a soft spot for the Greens st least they are Genuine and truly believe in what they say even if I don't agree with a lot of it ! Greens just want to preserve the earth for humanity,which can only be a good thing . "
.
No greens just want to preserve the earth, your not really relevant as a human!
At least be honest |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The real problem with democracy is the choice of candidates, we elect the political classes time and time again .It doesnt matter which party . Half of them go to eton or other select schools.
The all have degrees in politics and law and almost no real life working experiences outside of politics.
A Meritocracy would be better were only capable qualified people get their hands on our services.You wouldnt want a plumber to decided on your heart surgery but its ok for a lawyer to run the nhs...i know they get advised but do they have the knowledge base to make the call..
Youve just described Nigel farage for Christs sake
Good point. And if anybody was any good at their job they'd do that job and stay out of politics
Or after ive thought about it, even worse he just described Donald trump.
I happen to think that we've already got the brightest and best qualified in government.
What i would add is that all we need to do is remove the corruption and lobbying of multi nationals from it!
And thats really easy, just start jailing some of the fucker's for ten years, trust me you won't have to jail many, once they realise the game is up, they'll quit real quickNothing like trump or farage .I was thinking more singapore.The people we have are bureaucrats we need techocrats with expertise not etonian twats born to rule .Although experts arent popular today . .
I hate Singapore, its a fucking authoritarian hell hole.. Who the fuck wants a £2000 fine and six weeks in jail for having to packs of chewing gum in your bag, Singapore is one of those couples you meet on holiday, the first week there a laugh and your going out of your way to meet up and on the second week your going out of your way to avoid them because theyve started to annoy you Benevolent dictatorships are much better.
Plato's "The republic" is a good read on the subject.Here's what he says.
The best form of government is described therein to be one made of Philosopher Kings.
A State can only be in harmony with the Universe when led by superior rulers. A superior ruler by definition would not rule for self-interest and therefore would not be a tyrant.
Everyone in the Republic simply follows the leadership of the best people because only the Philosopher Kings have the ability to see the universe and how the State, and its citizens, can be at harmony with it.
Put into English - the best leaders would be the best and most capable, with enough philosophical insight to bring the best out of any state and its citizens and not screw it up with self-interested lobbying and other bull. "
.
You do know theres about as much evidence for Plato existing as there is for Jesus?.
To be honest im not personally bothered, they both wrote great things, wether they existed or not |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Does anyone know the national % of the vote the greens got at the last general election ?
Also the thing with P R is that people would vote for who they believe in !
Where as now thier is tactical voting !
I would vote for anybody who might beat the labour candidate , but under p r I'd vote for the party I liked best knowing the vote would mean something |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Does anyone know the national % of the vote the greens got at the last general election ?
Also the thing with P R is that people would vote for who they believe in !
Where as now thier is tactical voting !
I would vote for anybody who might beat the labour candidate , but under p r I'd vote for the party I liked best knowing the vote would mean something "
The greens got 1.1million votes and got 1 MP. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The real problem with democracy is the choice of candidates, we elect the political classes time and time again .It doesnt matter which party . Half of them go to eton or other select schools.
The all have degrees in politics and law and almost no real life working experiences outside of politics.
A Meritocracy would be better were only capable qualified people get their hands on our services.You wouldnt want a plumber to decided on your heart surgery but its ok for a lawyer to run the nhs...i know they get advised but do they have the knowledge base to make the call..
Youve just described Nigel farage for Christs sake
Good point. And if anybody was any good at their job they'd do that job and stay out of politics
Or after ive thought about it, even worse he just described Donald trump.
I happen to think that we've already got the brightest and best qualified in government.
What i would add is that all we need to do is remove the corruption and lobbying of multi nationals from it!
And thats really easy, just start jailing some of the fucker's for ten years, trust me you won't have to jail many, once they realise the game is up, they'll quit real quickNothing like trump or farage .I was thinking more singapore.The people we have are bureaucrats we need techocrats with expertise not etonian twats born to rule .Although experts arent popular today . .
I hate Singapore, its a fucking authoritarian hell hole.. Who the fuck wants a £2000 fine and six weeks in jail for having to packs of chewing gum in your bag, Singapore is one of those couples you meet on holiday, the first week there a laugh and your going out of your way to meet up and on the second week your going out of your way to avoid them because theyve started to annoy you Benevolent dictatorships are much better.
Plato's "The republic" is a good read on the subject.Here's what he says.
The best form of government is described therein to be one made of Philosopher Kings.
A State can only be in harmony with the Universe when led by superior rulers. A superior ruler by definition would not rule for self-interest and therefore would not be a tyrant.
Everyone in the Republic simply follows the leadership of the best people because only the Philosopher Kings have the ability to see the universe and how the State, and its citizens, can be at harmony with it.
Put into English - the best leaders would be the best and most capable, with enough philosophical insight to bring the best out of any state and its citizens and not screw it up with self-interested lobbying and other bull. .
You do know theres about as much evidence for Plato existing as there is for Jesus?.
To be honest im not personally bothered, they both wrote great things, wether they existed or not"
I know Socrates taught Plato and Plato taught Aristotle and Aristotle taught Alexander the great who didnt fancy teaching and conquered the known world.Jesus on the other hand could well be imaginary as there is only one account of his existence apart from the bible in which he didn't add a line himself .However i think he did exist and if plato didnt exist neither did Aristotle or Socrates or Alexander. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Does anyone know the national % of the vote the greens got at the last general election ?
Also the thing with P R is that people would vote for who they believe in !
Where as now thier is tactical voting !
I would vote for anybody who might beat the labour candidate , but under p r I'd vote for the party I liked best knowing the vote would mean something The greens got 1.1million votes and got 1 MP."
do you know what % of the vote that was Bob ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Does anyone know the national % of the vote the greens got at the last general election ?
Also the thing with P R is that people would vote for who they believe in !
Where as now thier is tactical voting !
I would vote for anybody who might beat the labour candidate , but under p r I'd vote for the party I liked best knowing the vote would mean something The greens got 1.1million votes and got 1 MP. do you know what % of the vote that was Bob ? "
Can't find the percentage but it would equate to 24 seats in parliament. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Does anyone know the national % of the vote the greens got at the last general election ?
Also the thing with P R is that people would vote for who they believe in !
Where as now thier is tactical voting !
I would vote for anybody who might beat the labour candidate , but under p r I'd vote for the party I liked best knowing the vote would mean something The greens got 1.1million votes and got 1 MP. do you know what % of the vote that was Bob ? Can't find the percentage but it would equate to 24 seats in parliament. "
Well that's what u was wondering ? Except if it was a or vote you would probbally get double that as people would know thier vote counted !
So I just can't see how anyone can rationally defend the current system ! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sorry bad text  meant I was wondering that and if voters new it was p r , the greens would probbally have got double that ! "
yep thats true.People think green is a wasted vote.Its shocking really that we would have the audacity to say this is a democracy.The Tories will keep it this way forevermore. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Sorry bad text meant I was wondering that and if voters new it was p r , the greens would probbally have got double that ! yep thats true.People think green is a wasted vote.Its shocking really that we would have the audacity to say this is a democracy.The Tories will keep it this way forevermore. "
Yes and so will labour !
Yet some of these people who prefer the status quo here are also playing merry hell because Trump got in with less Votes than Clinton ?
Yet the same could happen here ! |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"No weve only voted against it 4 or 5 years back No we didn't ! That was a referendum on the alternative vote !
Entirely different ! "
not really that different...
it is the system they use for the scottish parliament, the northern ireland assembly, the welsh assembly and the european parliament.....
pure P.R doesn't work and will never work and it is a catalyst for unstable alliences...
if you want an example of pure p.r... look at italy, then look to see how many different governments they have had since WW2....... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Does anyone know the national % of the vote the greens got at the last general election ?
Also the thing with P R is that people would vote for who they believe in !
Where as now thier is tactical voting !
I would vote for anybody who might beat the labour candidate , but under p r I'd vote for the party I liked best knowing the vote would mean something The greens got 1.1million votes and got 1 MP. do you know what % of the vote that was Bob ? Can't find the percentage but it would equate to 24 seats in parliament.
Well that's what u was wondering ? Except if it was a or vote you would probbally get double that as people would know thier vote counted !
So I just can't see how anyone can rationally defend the current system ! "
How can you rationally defend giving a UKIP candidate a constituency seat if another parties candidate got more votes then ? |
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Fact is PR is the best system of electing our representatives but while we have 2 main parties + a protest party it will not change because the 2 main parties would rather take turns at holding all the power than enter into a system that would require genuine cooperation and compromise. |
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"that's not a fact .... it's a supposition
"
No...
If we are to have a democratically elected representative legislature then it follows that the best system to elect those representatives is one where all votes have equal value. The only system that can deliver this is a PR system, therefore a PR system has to be the best. QED
Unless of course you are suggesting that democracy it self is not the best system of government. In which case please expand and tell us what sort of dictatorship we should live under. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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i'm not suggesting anything .... i'm merely correcting you in so far as your attempt to pass off your hypothosis of PR being the most democratic form of voting system as fact ... nothing more, nothing less |
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"i'm not suggesting anything .... i'm merely correcting you in so far as your attempt to pass off your hypothosis of PR being the most democratic form of voting system as fact ... nothing more, nothing less"
Are you really claiming that PR is not the most democratic form of voting?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i'm not suggesting anything .... i'm merely correcting you in so far as your attempt to pass off your hypothosis of PR being the most democratic form of voting system as fact ... nothing more, nothing less
Are you really claiming that PR is not the most democratic form of voting? "
you started a post by saying "fact is ...." ... i am merely pointing out that it is actually a suppositon on your behalf and not an actual evidence based fact ... nothing more, nothing less |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Sorry to dredge this up from a year ago but I wonder if anyones view can change on PR as a result of the current situation. Our FPP system promotes adverseral Politics doesn't it. I suppose you could argue that the current situation would be a taste of the sort of horse trading and double dealing that has to go on to get any legislation through but perhaps that would be the case after a PR election. The politicians would have to learn to get along wouldn't they and form coalesce around points of view, or would they. Perhaps human beings need firm decisive government. I'm not saying I have the answer but the current situation makes you wonder doesn't it ? |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Sorry to dredge this up from a year ago but I wonder if anyones view can change on PR as a result of the current situation. Our FPP system promotes adverseral Politics doesn't it. I suppose you could argue that the current situation would be a taste of the sort of horse trading and double dealing that has to go on to get any legislation through but perhaps that would be the case after a PR election. The politicians would have to learn to get along wouldn't they and form coalesce around points of view, or would they. Perhaps human beings need firm decisive government. I'm not saying I have the answer but the current situation makes you wonder doesn't it ?"
Personally I think the time has arrived for consensus politics, rather than the adversarial nonsense that we have been witnessing in all its raw ugliness recently.
Yes, issues may have to be resolved by compromise but that has to be better than a winner takes all system that can be carried by a single vote.
I think that had we already been governed by a PR system, Brexit would have been resolved ages ago by compromise. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It would probably take a couple of PR elections for politicians to realise that adversarial politics wouldn't work any more. Old habits die hard though so it wouldn't happen overnight. The electorate would have some lessons to learn too btw. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Doesn't history teach us that a parliament based on PR becomes weak, unable to make decision. Ends up pissing off the population which then eventually vote in a fascist?"
At the moment FPP doesn't seem to be covering itself in glory either does it |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Perhaps we just live in difficult times where globalisation and nationalism is pissing us all off at the same time."
I think it is more than that,people are getting lots of ideas from so many sauces on the net.The thing is what they are getting is brief and only tells people what it wants them to know.
Old saying a bit of knowledge is dangerous.We live in a quick instant world where not enough thought goes into making decisions especially about politics I feel |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"spain has pr and is about to have its 4th election in 4 years."
Spain and Italy should both be wealthy successful countries but weak governments mean the country is weak and no real direction
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think PR is a great idea as long as you accept that on matters where a consensus is difficult to achieve (not mentioning the obvious one btw) such as hs2 or fracking it will most likely lead to stagnation of decision making and a slowing down overall of Parliament. I dont like FPTP because it relies on the quality of the political thinking and a sense of honour, sensitivity, guidance and duty to one’s countrymen which is sadly pretty damn lacking in the current crop of politicians and their advisors. My feelings about todays politics are much the same as Will the bard put it on the death of the noble and honourable Mercutio “a plague on both your houses” |
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