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Spain veto

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Seem's people were right there is a Spanish EU veto problem is it's not the country they thought it would be

So there we have it Spain's veto is on Gibraltar not Scotland

Glad its been cleared up not that myth about Spain will veto an independent Scotland is dead in the water now

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why does everybody assume everything is mutually ?exclusive, its entirely possible Spain could veto both, none, one or the other, we just dont know?

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

[Removed by poster at 31/03/17 19:16:10]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Seem's people were right there is a Spanish EU veto problem is it's not the country they thought it would be

So there we have it Spain's veto is on Gibraltar not Scotland

Glad its been cleared up not that myth about Spain will veto an independent Scotland is dead in the water now "

Maybe look into this a bit more thoroughly. But in short, Spain are talking bollocks on Gibralter

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Mr Pons MEP from the leading party in Spain on Reporting Scotland said they would not veto Scotland being in the EU.

Imagine for a minute Scotland did have a new independence referendum as it was agreed by both Scottish and UK governments just like the Edinburgh agreement where is was a legal referendum and the vote was a Yes vote do people really think Spain would veto a referendum vote that was legally agreed they have have some balls to do that as then it wouldnt look good in the EU and then Spain would have a bigger problem with Catalonia to grant them a referendum

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By *avagliamMan over a year ago

London

"Seem's people were right there is a Spanish EU veto problem is it's not the country they thought it would be

So there we have it Spain's veto is on Gibraltar not Scotland

Glad its been cleared up not that myth about Spain will veto an independent Scotland is dead in the water now

Maybe look into this a bit more thoroughly. But in short, Spain are talking bollocks on Gibralter"

Gibralter?... Where is that?

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"Seem's people were right there is a Spanish EU veto problem is it's not the country they thought it would be

So there we have it Spain's veto is on Gibraltar not Scotland

Glad its been cleared up not that myth about Spain will veto an independent Scotland is dead in the water now

Maybe look into this a bit more thoroughly. But in short, Spain are talking bollocks on Gibralter

Gibralter?... Where is that?"

One vowel later .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's not going to be easy that's for sure! If anyone has ever served on a committee they will know how difficult it is to get things through. Having said that we have the best Britain can muster so I am sure we will get the best deal!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well Farage wanted nation state democracy. We might just get it, sadly nation state democracy whereby it becomes a little more game of thrones-esque.

18th/19th century democracy here we go.

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

Spain are pissing in the wind on Gibraltar, and they know it.

I thought the EU were negotiating as one voice, two days in and they are already split.

Are Spain going to hand back their North African enclave?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do Spain only have one veto?.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

It is strange how everone in England is so sure that Gib wants to remain British.

Considering that Gib had the highest turnout in the referendum and overwhelming voted to remain in the EU.

And for any who doubt me here are the figures:

Votes %

Remain 19,322 95.91%

Leave 823 4.09%

Valid votes 20,145 99.87%

Invalid or blank votes 27 0.13%

Total votes 20,172 100.00%

Registered voters/turnout 24,119 83.64%

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It is strange how everone in England is so sure that Gib wants to remain British.

Considering that Gib had the highest turnout in the referendum and overwhelming voted to remain in the EU.

And for any who doubt me here are the figures:

Votes %

Remain 19,322 95.91%

Leave 823 4.09%

Valid votes 20,145 99.87%

Invalid or blank votes 27 0.13%

Total votes 20,172 100.00%

Registered voters/turnout 24,119 83.64%"

Strange? What has Chief Minister Picardo said?

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

Well it was nice of the PM to right about the importance of keeping to border between Spain and Gibraltar open and free etc. I think that was on page 7 of the letter. Tusk did get all 7 pages right?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well it was nice of the PM to right about the importance of keeping to border between Spain and Gibraltar open and free etc. I think that was on page 7 of the letter. Tusk did get all 7 pages right? "

Was there really any need for 6?

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"Well it was nice of the PM to right about the importance of keeping to border between Spain and Gibraltar open and free etc. I think that was on page 7 of the letter. Tusk did get all 7 pages right?

Was there really any need for 6?"

6? 6?! What do you mean 6?! There were meant to be 7!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well it was nice of the PM to right about the importance of keeping to border between Spain and Gibraltar open and free etc. I think that was on page 7 of the letter. Tusk did get all 7 pages right?

Was there really any need for 6?

6? 6?! What do you mean 6?! There were meant to be 7!!!"

Maybe but she got so far and thought aah fuck it, they get the gist

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So what has been reported is that Spain could veto any brexit deal unless we give them Gibraltar? Is that what is being said?

Apart from the obvious illegality of such a move...what happened to the "27 speaking as one"?

And if such a thing was genuinely proposed then that would be a sure fire way of the UK walking out of the EU pronto..... ??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It is strange how everone in England is so sure that Gib wants to remain British.

Considering that Gib had the highest turnout in the referendum and overwhelming voted to remain in the EU.

And for any who doubt me here are the figures:

Votes %

Remain 19,322 95.91%

Leave 823 4.09%

Valid votes 20,145 99.87%

Invalid or blank votes 27 0.13%

Total votes 20,172 100.00%

Registered voters/turnout 24,119 83.64%"

Gibralter voted 99% in favour to remain under British Sovereignty. Pretty clear cut really.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Seem's people were right there is a Spanish EU veto problem is it's not the country they thought it would be

So there we have it Spain's veto is on Gibraltar not Scotland

Glad its been cleared up not that myth about Spain will veto an independent Scotland is dead in the water now

Maybe look into this a bit more thoroughly. But in short, Spain are talking bollocks on Gibralter

Gibralter?... Where is that?"

Southern UK

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"Gibralter voted 99% in favour to remain under British Sovereignty. Pretty clear cut really."

Right, in 1967 12,138 voted to remain in the UK so that means it is fine to ignore the 19,322 that voted to remain in the EU in 2016.

Your idea of democracy are also pretty clear cut.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Gibralter voted 99% in favour to remain under British Sovereignty. Pretty clear cut really.

Right, in 1967 12,138 voted to remain in the UK so that means it is fine to ignore the 19,322 that voted to remain in the EU in 2016.

Your idea of democracy are also pretty clear cut."

In 2002 99% voted to remain Under British Sovereignty. I think 99% of the population of the rock know what they prefer far more than you do

Let them decide.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"In 2002 99% voted to remain Under British Sovereignty. I think 99% of the population of the rock know what they prefer far more than you do

Let them decide."

They have...

They voted to stay in the EU, and their vote was separate to that of the UK.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In 2002 99% voted to remain Under British Sovereignty. I think 99% of the population of the rock know what they prefer far more than you do

Let them decide.

They have...

They voted to stay in the EU, and their vote was separate to that of the UK."

Get your facts right sunny. They voted as part of a UK wide referendum that was 52% in favour of leaving the EU. They are proud of their British Sovereignty, hence only 800 people voted against it in 2002. The British Goverment needs to ensure it does all it can to ensure the good people of Gibralter do not suffer because of any vindicative actions by Spain or the EU. The Spanish do their best to make life difficult for them as it is. They need support, not to be used as a political pawn.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In 2002 99% voted to remain Under British Sovereignty. I think 99% of the population of the rock know what they prefer far more than you do

Let them decide.

They have...

They voted to stay in the EU, and their vote was separate to that of the UK.

Put ye bollocks where ye mouth is and start a petition to let the Gibralan's have a referendum. The UK or the EU, now that the circumstances have changed a rigorous exercise of democracy is needed to see if they really wish to be the southern UK, or whether they wish to remain part of the EU - however that would work out.

Come on, it's democracy. You have to let the people have a say, and in a rigorous democracy we would devolve democracy to the local levels to see if politicians are representing their constituents correctly.

In short I call bollocks, I imagine that leaving the EU and single market - if that is what we finally end up dong, would push a significant amount of the population to vote showing their is an issue with the direction the UK is going in.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I say lets nuke them and have done with it.

We'll see how much Spain wants it back then

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Come on lets test fire some of them bad boys, who knows where there heading but for 100 billon i say they need a proper test!

Fuck it lets just target Madrid and give the EU roads a test under 1 million degrees c

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And then we'll take Berlin

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Were getting pushed around by a bunch of egg heads in Belgium who havent even got tanks let alone nukes.

What sort of negotiating are we fucking playing at.

Page 1

Give us everything or you get 50 mega tonnes dropped on you at day break.

Come on this isnt Putin were dealing with, show some back bone you Nancys

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"Get your facts right sunny. They voted as part of a UK wide referendum that was 52% in favour of leaving the EU. They are proud of their British Sovereignty, hence only 800 people voted against it in 2002. The British Goverment needs to ensure it does all it can to ensure the good people of Gibralter do not suffer because of any vindicative actions by Spain or the EU. The Spanish do their best to make life difficult for them as it is. They need support, not to be used as a political pawn."

This is the Act which gave a vote to the people of Gib.

European Union (Referendum) Act 2016

Parliament of Gibraltar

An act to enable the full participation of Gibraltar in the United Kingdom’s referendum on whether it should remain a member of the European Union, and to provide for the making of subsidiary legislation in connection therewith and for matters connected thereto, including amending primary legislation by subsidiary legislation as the circumstances require.

You will note it is the Sovereign Parliament of Gibraltar, not the British parliament that passed the act. Therefore regardless of what you may (or the Governor) say or think Gibraltar voted to remain in the EU and that vote is totally separate from the UK vote. I expect that at some point some Gibraltarian is going to make a legal challenge to the UK's right to force the Sovereign Parliament of Gibraltar out of the EU against the overwhelming expressed will of Gibraltar.

And you stick your condescending 'sonny' right up your ignorant (I served in NI [but cant tell] anyone what I did at the height of the troubles between my mother spitting me out and the age of 15) arse!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Pusssay

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This is the Act which gave a vote to the people of Gib.

European Union (Referendum) Act 2016

Parliament of Gibraltar

The good people of Gilbraltar didn't vote to leave UK sovereignty. Thats not too difficult for you to understand is it.

At the moment Spain and the EU are coming out with loads of bluster and a small minority of idiots in the UK are sucking it up. No one knows what will happen during and after negotiations so it is all conjecture. It will be down to Gilbraltar and the UK Government to make any decisions not people like me or you.

To my knowledge, unlike a handful a Scots, the Brits in Gilbraltar have not made a noise about a referendum. So get back in your pram, sunny.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Were getting pushed around by a bunch of egg heads in Belgium who havent even got tanks let alone nukes.

What sort of negotiating are we fucking playing at.

Page 1

Give us everything or you get 50 mega tonnes dropped on you at day break.

Come on this isnt Putin were dealing with, show some back bone you Nancys"

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"I say lets nuke them and have done with it.

We'll see how much Spain wants it back then

The yanks nearly did that by accident!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I should never have watched Dr strange love last night while drinking wine

Although it would be hilarious if Mrs may turned up in leather again at the first negotiating meeting and did the arm thing to Merkel

Mein fuhrer , ah get down, my arm is uncontrollable

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So. Seems like the people of Gibraltar feel like they've been given a slap in the face from the EU. And all after showing support for the EU in the referendum. Shows how out of touch the EU are

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why should we be suprised about Spain moving in on Gibraltar? Back in the 1700's when GB was the top gun we took it from the Spanish. So why would the Spanish give up on something taken from them by force? There are 2 sides to every story! This is just the first of many issues to be raised. Falklands, British Colonialism may come back and bite us on the bum. The East India company were great traders, but any opposition involved them bringing in the British Army as "persuaders". Slavery etc etc - we have opened a can of worms I fear.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I say lets nuke them and have done with it.

We'll see how much Spain wants it back then

The yanks nearly did that by accident! "
.

Its times like this where we need a small comedic relief!https://youtu.be/76OlqSd_5k8

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

"I say lets nuke them and have done with it.

We'll see how much Spain wants it back then

The yanks nearly did that by accident! "

I remember that...losing missiles in the sea!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why should we be suprised about Spain moving in on Gibraltar? Back in the 1700's when GB was the top gun we took it from the Spanish. So why would the Spanish give up on something taken from them by force? There are 2 sides to every story! This is just the first of many issues to be raised. Falklands, British Colonialism may come back and bite us on the bum. The East India company were great traders, but any opposition involved them bringing in the British Army as "persuaders". Slavery etc etc - we have opened a can of worms I fear."
.

Thats true,i vote we start at giving back the USA and Canada to the native Indians, and then Pakistan and Bangladesh? back to the Indians

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"I say lets nuke them and have done with it.

We'll see how much Spain wants it back then

The yanks nearly did that by accident! "

That is very true.

Remember that next time anyone gets their kit off on Play Vera.

The site of the nuke is only a handful of miles away and the land is still contaminated.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I say lets nuke them and have done with it.

We'll see how much Spain wants it back then

The yanks nearly did that by accident!

That is very true.

Remember that next time anyone gets their kit off on Play Vera.

The site of the nuke is only a handful of miles away and the land is still contaminated."
.

We should have nuked Chernobyl, weve been raising radioactive sheep here for 30 years

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thats true,i vote we start at giving back the USA and Canada to the native Indians, and then Pakistan and Bangladesh? back to the Indians

Seeing as Spain only ruled Gibraltar for 240 years before it was ceded to the UK (300 years) maybe Tunisia, Morrocco, Italy and Germany can put a claim in for it too

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thats true,i vote we start at giving back the USA and Canada to the native Indians, and then Pakistan and Bangladesh? back to the Indians

Seeing as Spain only ruled Gibraltar for 240 years before it was ceded to the UK (300 years) maybe Tunisia, Morrocco, Italy and Germany can put a claim in for it too

"
.

Or the Muslim empire that ruled Spain for 500 years could put a claim in for Spain!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why not just offer Gibraltar indendence ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thats true,i vote we start at giving back the USA and Canada to the native Indians, and then Pakistan and Bangladesh? back to the Indians

Seeing as Spain only ruled Gibraltar for 240 years before it was ceded to the UK (300 years) maybe Tunisia, Morrocco, Italy and Germany can put a claim in for it too

Or the Muslim empire that ruled Spain for 500 years could put a claim in for Spain!"

Oh ye, and maybe Spain could put a claim in for Portugal?

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

Spain could hand back their North African enclaves but I doubt it.

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By *avagliamMan over a year ago

London

"Seem's people were right there is a Spanish EU veto problem is it's not the country they thought it would be

So there we have it Spain's veto is on Gibraltar not Scotland

Glad its been cleared up not that myth about Spain will veto an independent Scotland is dead in the water now

Maybe look into this a bit more thoroughly. But in short, Spain are talking bollocks on Gibralter

Gibralter?... Where is that?

One vowel later ."

funny to see some people suddenly worried about something they don't even know how to spell.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Seem's people were right there is a Spanish EU veto problem is it's not the country they thought it would be

So there we have it Spain's veto is on Gibraltar not Scotland

Glad its been cleared up not that myth about Spain will veto an independent Scotland is dead in the water now

Maybe look into this a bit more thoroughly. But in short, Spain are talking bollocks on Gibralter

Gibralter?... Where is that?

One vowel later .

funny to see some people suddenly worried about something they don't even know how to spell."

Duh? Who's worried?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I spelt Morocco wrong too but I aint worried about that either

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thats true,i vote we start at giving back the USA and Canada to the native Indians, and then Pakistan and Bangladesh? back to the Indians

Seeing as Spain only ruled Gibraltar for 240 years before it was ceded to the UK (300 years) maybe Tunisia, Morrocco, Italy and Germany can put a claim in for it too

So where is the geographic location? It's on the Spanish peninsula! UK needs to face facts - got enough to worry about without worrying about overseas territories? How much do they cost the UK taxpayer to support? Gibraltar could have the same status as Andorra?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thats true,i vote we start at giving back the USA and Canada to the native Indians, and then Pakistan and Bangladesh? back to the Indians

Seeing as Spain only ruled Gibraltar for 240 years before it was ceded to the UK (300 years) maybe Tunisia, Morrocco, Italy and Germany can put a claim in for it too

And be out of the EU too?

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

[Removed by poster at 01/04/17 09:49:34]

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

So were we right not to give a unilateral agreement on citizen's rights?

Perhaps the Goverment knew this was coming?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So were we right not to give a unilateral agreement on citizen's rights?

Perhaps the Goverment knew this was coming?"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why not just offer Gibraltar indendence ? "
.

I thought it was independent

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thats true,i vote we start at giving back the USA and Canada to the native Indians, and then Pakistan and Bangladesh? back to the Indians

Seeing as Spain only ruled Gibraltar for 240 years before it was ceded to the UK (300 years) maybe Tunisia, Morrocco, Italy and Germany can put a claim in for it too

And be out of the EU too?"

Andorra is NOT in the EU!

It is a sovereign state, which is under Spanish/French protection - Similar to Liechtenstein, Monaco etc

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 01/04/17 12:30:31]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thats true,i vote we start at giving back the USA and Canada to the native Indians, and then Pakistan and Bangladesh? back to the Indians

Seeing as Spain only ruled Gibraltar for 240 years before it was ceded to the UK (300 years) maybe Tunisia, Morrocco, Italy and Germany can put a claim in for it too

And be out of the EU too?

Andorra is NOT in the EU!

It is a sovereign state, which is under Spanish/French protection - Similar to Liechtenstein, Monaco etc"

I know its not in the EU. Thats what I mean. Would it be better off out of the EU like Andorra? Or would it have to leave the EU anyway?

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

This is only the tip of the iceberg. We need every WTO member in the world to agree to our tariff schedule.

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"Spain are pissing in the wind on Gibraltar, and they know it.

I thought the EU were negotiating as one voice, two days in and they are already split.

Are Spain going to hand back their North African enclave?"

The EU is never really one voice,never has been never will be.For me this is why the EU is doomed to failure.

However Gibralter could really cause a lot of problems because the Spanish will now get support from others to get us a bad deal,this is a tricky one,lets see how May handles it,I think this could be a real spanner in the works unfortunatly

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thats true,i vote we start at giving back the USA and Canada to the native Indians, and then Pakistan and Bangladesh? back to the Indians

Seeing as Spain only ruled Gibraltar for 240 years before it was ceded to the UK (300 years) maybe Tunisia, Morrocco, Italy and Germany can put a claim in for it too

Or the Muslim empire that ruled Spain for 500 years could put a claim in for Spain!

Oh ye, and maybe Spain could put a claim in for Portugal?"

Im part Norwegian so i'm gonna take England and parts of Scotland and ireland for my ancestors mwhahaha! Viva la Danelaw!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thats true,i vote we start at giving back the USA and Canada to the native Indians, and then Pakistan and Bangladesh? back to the Indians

Seeing as Spain only ruled Gibraltar for 240 years before it was ceded to the UK (300 years) maybe Tunisia, Morrocco, Italy and Germany can put a claim in for it too

Or the Muslim empire that ruled Spain for 500 years could put a claim in for Spain!"

Sod it lets just reform the roman empire, solves everything right? Then we can get to the real pressing issue of our time and retake constantinople!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thats true,i vote we start at giving back the USA and Canada to the native Indians, and then Pakistan and Bangladesh? back to the Indians

Seeing as Spain only ruled Gibraltar for 240 years before it was ceded to the UK (300 years) maybe Tunisia, Morrocco, Italy and Germany can put a claim in for it too

And be out of the EU too?

Andorra is NOT in the EU!

It is a sovereign state, which is under Spanish/French protection - Similar to Liechtenstein, Monaco etc

I know its not in the EU. Thats what I mean. Would it be better off out of the EU like Andorra? Or would it have to leave the EU anyway?"

I apologise that I mis-read your question, now that you've expanded it I understand what you mean. To answer your question, I don't know the answer and why would I? That's for an expert to answer not me, no one has ever left the EU before,so there is no evidence to refer to. Ask me the question in 5 years from now and then we will have a proven track record to refer to!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thats true,i vote we start at giving back the USA and Canada to the native Indians, and then Pakistan and Bangladesh? back to the Indians

Seeing as Spain only ruled Gibraltar for 240 years before it was ceded to the UK (300 years) maybe Tunisia, Morrocco, Italy and Germany can put a claim in for it too

Or the Muslim empire that ruled Spain for 500 years could put a claim in for Spain!

Sod it lets just reform the roman empire, solves everything right? Then we can get to the real pressing issue of our time and retake constantinople!

"
.

I was trying to take Berlin last night after watching Dr strange love.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thats true,i vote we start at giving back the USA and Canada to the native Indians, and then Pakistan and Bangladesh? back to the Indians

Seeing as Spain only ruled Gibraltar for 240 years before it was ceded to the UK (300 years) maybe Tunisia, Morrocco, Italy and Germany can put a claim in for it too

Or the Muslim empire that ruled Spain for 500 years could put a claim in for Spain!

Sod it lets just reform the roman empire, solves everything right? Then we can get to the real pressing issue of our time and retake constantinople!

I was trying to take Berlin last night after watching Dr strange love.

Berlin is of no issue. The West must take back Constantinople from the Kebabs. Deus Vult!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thats true,i vote we start at giving back the USA and Canada to the native Indians, and then Pakistan and Bangladesh? back to the Indians

Seeing as Spain only ruled Gibraltar for 240 years before it was ceded to the UK (300 years) maybe Tunisia, Morrocco, Italy and Germany can put a claim in for it too

Or the Muslim empire that ruled Spain for 500 years could put a claim in for Spain!

Sod it lets just reform the roman empire, solves everything right? Then we can get to the real pressing issue of our time and retake constantinople!

I was trying to take Berlin last night after watching Dr strange love.

To clarify I'm a wee bit merry and am currently trolling Alt-Reich youtubers. God they post some crap.

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

"It's not going to be easy that's for sure! If anyone has ever served on a committee they will know how difficult it is to get things through. Having said that we have the best Britain can muster so I am sure we will get the best deal!"

Hahahahahaha.

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

Maybe the Spanish should give Ceuta and Melilla to the Moroccans.

You can see Gibraltar from Ceuta, on the coast of Morocco.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Further evidence Spain will not veto an independent Scotland. Spanish foreign minster rules it out

Lmao the British media for months and months were so confident Spain would veto Scotland being in the EU they didnt see that coming with a Spanish veto over Gibralter.

This is why you cant believe a word of the British media they are feart to lose Scotland.

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By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

"Further evidence Spain will not veto an independent Scotland. Spanish foreign minster rules it out

Lmao the British media for months and months were so confident Spain would veto Scotland being in the EU they didnt see that coming with a Spanish veto over Gibralter.

This is why you cant believe a word of the British media they are feart to lose Scotland. "

True but he also said Scotland would have to wait in the queue meet the required rules and regulations and be willing to adopt the Euro, please correct me if I,m wrong.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Further evidence Spain will not veto an independent Scotland. Spanish foreign minster rules it out

Lmao the British media for months and months were so confident Spain would veto Scotland being in the EU they didnt see that coming with a Spanish veto over Gibralter.

This is why you cant believe a word of the British media they are feart to lose Scotland.

True but he also said Scotland would have to wait in the queue meet the required rules and regulations and be willing to adopt the Euro, please correct me if I,m wrong. "

There is no queue you either meet the criteria or you dont and no country is forced to use the euro.

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

"Further evidence Spain will not veto an independent Scotland. Spanish foreign minster rules it out

Lmao the British media for months and months were so confident Spain would veto Scotland being in the EU they didnt see that coming with a Spanish veto over Gibralter.

This is why you cant believe a word of the British media they are feart to lose Scotland.

True but he also said Scotland would have to wait in the queue meet the required rules and regulations and be willing to adopt the Euro, please correct me if I,m wrong.

There is no queue you either meet the criteria or you dont and no country is forced to use the euro. "

I think you need to dig a bit deeper into both those points. You may well be surprised!

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

"Further evidence Spain will not veto an independent Scotland. Spanish foreign minster rules it out

Lmao the British media for months and months were so confident Spain would veto Scotland being in the EU they didnt see that coming with a Spanish veto over Gibralter.

This is why you cant believe a word of the British media they are feart to lose Scotland.

True but he also said Scotland would have to wait in the queue meet the required rules and regulations and be willing to adopt the Euro, please correct me if I,m wrong.

There is no queue you either meet the criteria or you dont and no country is forced to use the euro. "

If you are stuck, just Google "Dastis and the Guardian "

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

The sickest part about the Spain and the veto over Gibralter is the fact is we are hearing people come out and say the UK will go to war yeah war to defend Gibralter

Have the UK not learned a damn thing about going to war with countries. They cant accept the fact the British empire is over

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The sickest part about the Spain and the veto over Gibralter is the fact is we are hearing people come out and say the UK will go to war yeah war to defend Gibralter

Have the UK not learned a damn thing about going to war with countries. They cant accept the fact the British empire is over"

What does Gibraltar have to do with the Empire?

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"The sickest part about the Spain and the veto over Gibralter is the fact is we are hearing people come out and say the UK will go to war yeah war to defend Gibralter

Have the UK not learned a damn thing about going to war with countries. They cant accept the fact the British empire is over

What does Gibraltar have to do with the Empire?"

Well i would considering Gibralter voted to remain in the EU and the UK think they know best for Gibralter i would say give the people of Gibralter a referendum for them to decide if they want to be part of the UK out of the EU or now but we all know the UK government aint gonna do that as then they would have to give Scotland and N.Ireland referendums.

Also yes i do knwo back in the early 2000's Gibralter wanted to be part of the UK but things change in live and in 2016 the also voted to remain in the EU.

The problem is the Tories think they know whats best for Scotland , Wales , N.Ireland and Gibralter even though not one of these countries voted for the Tories.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The sickest part about the Spain and the veto over Gibralter is the fact is we are hearing people come out and say the UK will go to war yeah war to defend Gibralter

Have the UK not learned a damn thing about going to war with countries. They cant accept the fact the British empire is over

What does Gibraltar have to do with the Empire?

Also yes i do knwo back in the early 2000's Gibralter wanted to be part of the UK but things change in live and in 2016 the also voted to remain in the EU.

The problem is the Tories think they know whats best for Scotland , Wales , N.Ireland and Gibralter even though not one of these countries voted for the Tories. "

I don't think Gibralterians had a vote in the general Election ! As neither did the Isle of Man , or the Channel Islands !

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

Remainers said during the referendum that the had been a force for peace between its members for 60 years which was, in characteristic fashion, denied by the brexiters.

4 days after we trigger article 50 and already there are calls for us to go to war with Spain over Gibraltar like we did over the falklands.

I thought they want to take us back to the 1950's, not 1590's! Fucking lunatics.

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

"Remainers said during the referendum that the had been a force for peace between its members for 60 years which was, in characteristic fashion, denied by the brexiters.

4 days after we trigger article 50 and already there are calls for us to go to war with Spain over Gibraltar like we did over the falklands.

I thought they want to take us back to the 1950's, not 1590's! Fucking lunatics. "

Who has mentioned "war"?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Remainers said during the referendum that the had been a force for peace between its members for 60 years which was, in characteristic fashion, denied by the brexiters.

4 days after we trigger article 50 and already there are calls for us to go to war with Spain over Gibraltar like we did over the falklands.

I thought they want to take us back to the 1950's, not 1590's! Fucking lunatics. "

A tad over dramatic.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A lot of crazy comments here. Especially the ones from the folks who sniff glue and watch braveheart on repeat.

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By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

"Further evidence Spain will not veto an independent Scotland. Spanish foreign minster rules it out

Lmao the British media for months and months were so confident Spain would veto Scotland being in the EU they didnt see that coming with a Spanish veto over Gibralter.

This is why you cant believe a word of the British media they are feart to lose Scotland.

True but he also said Scotland would have to wait in the queue meet the required rules and regulations and be willing to adopt the Euro, please correct me if I,m wrong.

There is no queue you either meet the criteria or you dont and no country is forced to use the euro. "

I think you,ll find there are 4 countries already waiting to join, but the EU have said no other countries can start talks until 2020.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

like chad said ... wot veto?

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Further evidence Spain will not veto an independent Scotland. Spanish foreign minster rules it out

Lmao the British media for months and months were so confident Spain would veto Scotland being in the EU they didnt see that coming with a Spanish veto over Gibralter.

This is why you cant believe a word of the British media they are feart to lose Scotland.

True but he also said Scotland would have to wait in the queue meet the required rules and regulations and be willing to adopt the Euro, please correct me if I,m wrong.

There is no queue you either meet the criteria or you dont and no country is forced to use the euro.

I think you,ll find there are 4 countries already waiting to join, but the EU have said no other countries can start talks until 2020."

Yeah and why are they waiting ? Could it be as right now none of them might the criteria ?

Now the EU have come and said Scotland could be fast tracked you would think after the whole Spain veto on independence being debunked people would start listening to what the EU are saying and not what the British media are telling you.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

the point is in the last two days, as far as spain is concerned it's full steam ahead for scotish independence ... fuck you project fear

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Seem's people were right there is a Spanish EU veto problem is it's not the country they thought it would be

So there we have it Spain's veto is on Gibraltar not Scotland

Glad its been cleared up not that myth about Spain will veto an independent Scotland is dead in the water now

Maybe look into this a bit more thoroughly. But in short, Spain are talking bollocks on Gibralter

Gibralter?... Where is that?

Southern UK"

Nah...Southern UK is the Falklands

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"Further evidence Spain will not veto an independent Scotland. Spanish foreign minster rules it out

Lmao the British media for months and months were so confident Spain would veto Scotland being in the EU they didnt see that coming with a Spanish veto over Gibralter.

This is why you cant believe a word of the British media they are feart to lose Scotland.

True but he also said Scotland would have to wait in the queue meet the required rules and regulations and be willing to adopt the Euro, please correct me if I,m wrong.

There is no queue you either meet the criteria or you dont and no country is forced to use the euro.

I think you,ll find there are 4 countries already waiting to join, but the EU have said no other countries can start talks until 2020.

Yeah and why are they waiting ? Could it be as right now none of them might the criteria ?

Let's get one thing straight.

Spain will veto Scotland. It has no other choice.

As much as some in Spain would love to rub Britain's nose in it over Gibraltar, and they would be sorely tempted to do so, they won't risk it.

The risk of losing Catalonia and the Basque region including the cities of Barcelona, Bilbao, Pamplona, San Sebastian, and Vittoria is far too big a gamble to take just to make a point about a lump of rock sticking out into the Med.

Catalan and Basque nationalism is just as strong as Scotland's and they are chomping at the bit for an excuse to go for it.

Whatever the other arguments are about Scottish independence I will leave to the Scottish to decide. However betting the farm on the myth that the Spanish will back down is a bet than Scotland will certainly lose.

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By *ostafunMan over a year ago

near ipswich

"It is strange how everone in England is so sure that Gib wants to remain British.

Considering that Gib had the highest turnout in the referendum and overwhelming voted to remain in the EU.

And for any who doubt me here are the figures:

Votes %

Remain 19,322 95.91%

Leave 823 4.09%

Valid votes 20,145 99.87%

Invalid or blank votes 27 0.13%

Total votes 20,172 100.00%

Registered voters/turnout 24,119 83.64%"
not strange at all i spend lots of time in gib and they are very patriotic and want to remain british despite voting to remain.

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By *ostafunMan over a year ago

near ipswich

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

I think a few would have benefitted from a google on how Gib became British, I for one didnt know the full facts until I looked it up yesterday

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

We also got Minorca as part of the deal but we handed that back in 1802.

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

I'm surprised that Spain hasn't asked the EU for Portugal back, and that Spain, France and Austria haven't laid claim to parts of Italy. Gibraltar has been British for a lot longer than Italy has existed!

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

"I'm surprised that Spain hasn't asked the EU for Portugal back, and that Spain, France and Austria haven't laid claim to parts of Italy. Gibraltar has been British for a lot longer than Italy has existed!"

This is the problem...were do you actually stop? How far in time do you go back?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This is the problem...were do you actually stop? How far in time do you go back?"
The indian nations just last week sent a invoice for $300 trillion dollars to the white house for rent arrears.

You can go back as far as you like.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

This is the problem...were do you actually stop? How far in time do you go back?The indian nations just last week sent a invoice for $300 trillion dollars to the white house for rent arrears.

You can go back as far as you like."

But wasn't it British settlers who first went to the states and set up colonies? Maybe trump will forward the bill on to us!

Then will forward it on to who? The Romans? The Normans? The Vikings? Saxons?

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Or Germany for that matter.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

Or Germany for that matter.

Have the borders of any country changed since the became members of the EU and its predecessor organisations?

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

Or Germany for that matter.

Have the borders of any country changed since the became members of the EU and its predecessor organisations? "

Germany's has

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

Or Germany for that matter.

Have the borders of any country changed since the became members of the EU and its predecessor organisations?

Germany's has"

Which parts has it lost or gained since joining?

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By *avidnsa69Man over a year ago

Essex

Or Germany for that matter.

Have the borders of any country changed since the became members of the EU and its predecessor organisations?

Germany's has

Which parts has it lost or gained since joining? "

East Germany

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

Or Germany for that matter.

Have the borders of any country changed since the became members of the EU and its predecessor organisations?

Germany's has

Which parts has it lost or gained since joining?

East Germany"

True, or you could say that East Germany gained West Germany

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Or Germany for that matter.

Have the borders of any country changed since the became members of the EU and its predecessor organisations? "

No, but WTF has that got to do with Gibraltar?

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

Or Germany for that matter.

Have the borders of any country changed since the became members of the EU and its predecessor organisations?

Germany's has

Which parts has it lost or gained since joining?

East Germany

True, or you could say that East Germany gained West Germany

How could you say that? Which side's laws, currency, political systems etc did the new Germany take on? West or East?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Or Germany for that matter.

Have the borders of any country changed since the became members of the EU and its predecessor organisations?

Germany's has

Which parts has it lost or gained since joining?

East Germany

True, or you could say that East Germany gained West Germany

How could you say that? Which side's laws, currency, political systems etc did the new Germany take on? West or East?"

Pity it wasn't the other way, they'd have been out of the EU then

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

How come Gibraltar doesn't have the Union flag somewhere on it's flag? All the other British Overseas's Territories do?

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"How come Gibraltar doesn't have the Union flag somewhere on it's flag? All the other British Overseas's Territories do?"

So does Hawaii

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By *egionaireMan over a year ago

ramsey

Hi the isle of man does not have the union flag and before you say its a union Jack its not as that can only be called that when flown on a British warship

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This is the problem...were do you actually stop? How far in time do you go back?The indian nations just last week sent a invoice for $300 trillion dollars to the white house for rent arrears.

You can go back as far as you like.

But wasn't it British settlers who first went to the states and set up colonies? Maybe trump will forward the bill on to us!

Then will forward it on to who? The Romans? The Normans? The Vikings? Saxons? "
The invoice states its from 1776 til today.I would expect one will go downing streets soon.They are taking the cue from President Trump’s decision to hand Germany an invoice for NATO services.

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

"How come Gibraltar doesn't have the Union flag somewhere on it's flag? All the other British Overseas's Territories do?"

Ah, the flag is basically a Spanish Coat of Arms.

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

And Italy's is basically Mexico's..... Romania's is Chad's, Andorra's and Moldova's....., Netherlands, croatia and paraguay, ....Egypt, Iraq, Syria and Yemen basically the same...monaco and Indonesia.... Ireland and Ivory Coast ..... and as for Colombia, Ecuador and Venezuela!

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"And Italy's is basically Mexico's..... Romania's is Chad's, Andorra's and Moldova's....., Netherlands, croatia and paraguay, ....Egypt, Iraq, Syria and Yemen basically the same...monaco and Indonesia.... Ireland and Ivory Coast ..... and as for Colombia, Ecuador and Venezuela!

Mexico's is fairly recognisable with the eagle on a cactus. Australia and NZ look very similar to me. Mozambique has an AK-47 on their flag!

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

You'll be getting an invite from Sheldon Cooper soon.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"You'll be getting an invite from Sheldon Cooper soon."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We also got Minorca as part of the deal but we handed that back in 1802."

How bloody stupid are we...!

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

If Gibraltar are forced to choose between the UK and Spain, they will choose Spain won't they?

The weather's much better.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"If Gibraltar are forced to choose between the UK and Spain, they will choose Spain won't they?

The weather's much better. "

Well they did vote to remain in the EU.

Yes, yes i know they also voted to part of the UK in the early 2000's but things change and they didnt see that coming in the early 2000's being out of the EU.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If Gibraltar are forced to choose between the UK and Spain, they will choose Spain won't they?

The weather's much better.

Well they did vote to remain in the EU.

Yes, yes i know they also voted to part of the UK in the early 2000's but things change and they didnt see that coming in the early 2000's being out of the EU. "

Apart from the fact that they are proud of their British heritage,

La Linea the nearest Spanish town and in the Eurozone 35% unemployment. Gibraltar, part of the UK, out of the Eurozone and 1% unemployment.

Ye, I wonder what they'd choose

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

"If Gibraltar are forced to choose between the UK and Spain, they will choose Spain won't they?

The weather's much better.

Well they did vote to remain in the EU.

Yes, yes i know they also voted to part of the UK in the early 2000's but things change and they didnt see that coming in the early 2000's being out of the EU.

Apart from the fact that they are proud of their British heritage,

La Linea the nearest Spanish town and in the Eurozone 35% unemployment. Gibraltar, part of the UK, out of the Eurozone and 1% unemployment.

Ye, I wonder what they'd choose

Not to mention the tax rate difference

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Think the original point was that Spain has been allowed a veto by the rest of the EU on the Gibraltar factor-something that was an obvious move months ago-and certain politicians are acting like spoiled children and shouting loudly. This always covers up the important news- which is that Spain has said catabolic ally it will NOT veto Scotland joining the EU. The significance of this is lost on R UK but not in Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Spellchecker has struck.

The other thing that amazes me is the assertion that those seeking independence are a small minority.

The SNP were re-elected on a clear agenda of another independence vote if Brexit happened, by the largest constituency vote in the history of the parliament. That's democracy. Deal with it and stop moaning.

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

Did Spain say that?

The original article that Reuters released was different from the one in the UK papers.

Spains foreign minister Alfonso Dastis said, "Initially, I don't think we would block it," he said in an interview published in El Pais.

Why was the word "initially" omitted from the UK papers?

And what does he mean by that, will they change their minds later?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's reported he said 'to start with', but I don't know the context of that phrase as its meaning depends very much on where in the sentence it comes and what its weighting and initial meaning is.

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

'Alfonso Dastis, the Spanish foreign minister, made it clear that the government would not block an independent Scotland’s EU hopes, although he stressed that Madrid would not welcome the disintegration of the UK.

He also said Edinburgh would have to apply for membership, a process fraught with uncertainty that is likely to take several years. But asked directly whether Spain would veto an independent Scotland joining the EU, Dastis said: “No, we wouldn’t.”

Madrid is keen not to fuel Catalonia’s desire for independence. “We don’t want it [Scottish independence] to happen,” he said. “But if it happens legally and constitutionally, we would not block it. We don’t encourage the breakup of any member states, because we think the future goes in a different direction.”'

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's a generally held belief in Brussels that because Scotland already has EU rules and laws in place, joining the EU as an independent country would be very much quicker. The time frame it would happen within would be much shorter than other countries not already members.

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

"It's a generally held belief in Brussels that because Scotland already has EU rules and laws in place, joining the EU as an independent country would be very much quicker. The time frame it would happen within would be much shorter than other countries not already members."

While that is certainly true. the scottish economy doesnt meet the financial test AFAIK,it would need to have a central bank and most crucially adopt the euro, last time NS said they would keep the pound which plainly isnt going to happen and would be against the EU's own rules on new members

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

Scotland can join the EU without joining the Euro.

'All EU members which have joined the bloc since the signing of the Maastricht treaty in 1992 are legally obliged to adopt the euro once they meet the criteria'

but

'Since the convergence criteria require participation in the ERM, and non-eurozone states are responsible for deciding when to join ERM, they can ultimately control when they adopt the euro by staying outside the ERM and thus deliberately failing to meet the convergence criteria until they wish to. In some non-eurozone states without an opt-out, there has been discussion about holding referendums on approving their euro adoption.[10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18] Of the 16 states which have acceded to EU since 1992, the only state to have staged a euro referendum to date is Sweden, which in 2003 rejected its government's proposal to adopt the euro in 2006.'

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

Chapter 17: Economic and monetary policy

The acquis in the area of economic and monetary policy contains specific rules requiring the independence of central banks in Member States, prohibiting direct financing of the public sector by the central banks and prohibiting privileged access of the public sector to financial institutions. Member States are expected to co-ordinate their economic policies and are subject to the Stability and Growth Pact on fiscal surveillance. New Member States are also committed to complying with the criteria laid down in the Treaty in order to be able to adopt the euro in due course after accession. Until then, they will participate in the Economic and Monetary Union as a Member State with a derogation from the use of the euro and shall treat their exchange rates as a matter of common concern.

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

so what currency are they going to use they cant use the BoE as a central bank to back their currency, who would set their interest rate and monetary policy, their is no way the uk government would allow a country which it has no control over use the BoE as the lender of last resort,its dream land

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

Good question

Its got to be a new currency and a new central bank and assets? Acceptance of the growth and stability pact can be harsh with the Excessive Deficit Procedure, and the implications for Scotland would be raise taxes, slash services or a combination of both. Greece without the sun they joked, no laughing matter to the Scots.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"so what currency are they going to use they cant use the BoE as a central bank to back their currency, who would set their interest rate and monetary policy, their is no way the uk government would allow a country which it has no control over use the BoE as the lender of last resort,its dream land"

No, the pound sterling is used by other countries the UK has no control over.

I would hope this issue is better addressed in the run up to any vote this time. I had the impression that not enough was explained properly about the options and basically, the No side shouted louder than the YES side did. Attempts were made to explain but not forcefully enough. Or, possibly not reported by the media- newspapers or television news.

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

No, the pound sterling is used by other countries the UK has no control over.

Only a few small Crown dependencies use Pound Sterling, as they are deemed too small to administer their own banking system.

An independent Scotland will not be able to use the Pound. If it wants to be an accession country into the EU, it will have to adopt the Euro.

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

They would use a new Scottish pound pegged to sterling to begin with. Lots of big hurdles but doable.

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

Whatever is used will be pegged to the euro as chapter 17 requires it to be.

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

Don't think it does. There are other ways to meet the criteria. Plenty of countries not yet in the euro but are in the EU.

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

"They would use a new Scottish pound pegged to sterling to begin with. Lots of big hurdles but doable. "

Why would they want to keep it pegged to sterling?

How would they keep it pegged to sterling?

Why wouldn't they keep it pegged to the Euro?

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

"Don't think it does. There are other ways to meet the criteria. Plenty of countries not yet in the euro but are in the EU. "

That is true but "new" member states, as Scotland will be, have to adopt the Euro.

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

The Basque separatist movement ETA has now said it will dis-arm, and therefore start negotiations with the Spanish Goverment regarding Catalonian independence.

Bet the Spanish Goverment are going to love that!

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

"Don't think it does. There are other ways to meet the criteria. Plenty of countries not yet in the euro but are in the EU. "

It's pretty obvious it does. Economic and Monetary Union.

Tell me the other ways please?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The Basque separatist movement ETA has now said it will dis-arm, and therefore start negotiations with the Spanish Goverment regarding Catalonian independence.

Bet the Spanish Goverment are going to love that!"

Did i just read it was all kicking off over in Guiana, the French oversees occupied territory in south America which is part of the EU and uses the euro.

Oh and coincidentally is used by the EU for its space operations!.

What happening, do the locals want it back by any chance?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"They would use a new Scottish pound pegged to sterling to begin with. Lots of big hurdles but doable. "
.

I thought all new member states were required to adopt the euro?.

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

"They would use a new Scottish pound pegged to sterling to begin with. Lots of big hurdles but doable. .

I thought all new member states were required to adopt the euro?.

Technically yes.

As I posted earlier

'All EU members which have joined the bloc since the signing of the Maastricht treaty in 1992 are legally obliged to adopt the euro once they meet the criteria'

but

Of the 28 countries in the EU, 19 are in the Eurozone and have the Euro as their currency.

Denmark and the UK, who were both members prior to 1992, negotiated opt outs from the Euro. We are not part of the ERM II, Denmark are, but are still not in the Euro.

There are therefore seven other countries in the EU as full members but not yet forced into adopting the euro.

Bulgaria joined in 2007, still not using the Euro 10 years later, same with Romania.

Croatia joined in 2013.

The Czech Republic joined in 2004, not using the Euro 13 years later, same with Hungary and Poland.

Sweden joined in 1995. 22 years later, despite having joined post 1992, they still use the Krona. In 2003 they held a referendum on whether to adopt the Euro. 56% voted no so they didn't.

The EU is painted by Brexiters as this imposing, undemocratic behemoth forcing its will on others.

It's fantasy. They didn't impose the Euro on two of its existing members, ourselves and Denmark, against the wishes of its people and even though they want new countries to adopt the Euro, hence the stated objective, they allow the wriggle room even then to stay out if that country doesn't want to.

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

The EU could not impose the euro on the UK and Denmark because they have an exemption opt out in the Masstricht Treaty.

Imposing it would be in breach of that treaty.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"
.

I didnt mean it in the forced sense,i genuinely thought all new members were required to adopt the euro if they meet the criteria.

I dont see that as a problem perse and wouldnt give countries wiggle room just because they dont want the euro.

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

"The EU could not impose the euro on the UK and Denmark because they have an exemption opt out in the Masstricht Treaty.

Imposing it would be in breach of that treaty.

So in summary the EU wants countries to join the euro if they want to join the euro, but allows them not to if they don't.

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

So in summary, at the moment, the EU wants member states with independent currencies to join the euro if they want to join the euro, but allows them not to, if they are unable or unwilling to meet the convergence criteria.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The EU could not impose the euro on the UK and Denmark because they have an exemption opt out in the Masstricht Treaty.

Imposing it would be in breach of that treaty.

So in summary the EU wants countries to join the euro if they want to join the euro, but allows them not to if they don't.

No. Do new members have an opt out when they signed the Maastricht Treaty? Oh hang on, they didn't sign it did they?

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

"The EU could not impose the euro on the UK and Denmark because they have an exemption opt out in the Masstricht Treaty.

Imposing it would be in breach of that treaty.

So in summary the EU wants countries to join the euro if they want to join the euro, but allows them not to if they don't.

No. Do new members have an opt out when they signed the Maastricht Treaty? Oh hang on, they didn't sign it did they?"

What the hell sort of point is that to make?

Is there a country that has been a member for 22 years that hasn't adopted the euro?

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

A Sweden, but they do have their own central bank and currency. Scotland on the other hand...

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

"They would use a new Scottish pound pegged to sterling to begin with. Lots of big hurdles but doable.

Why would they want to keep it pegged to sterling?

How would they keep it pegged to sterling?

Why wouldn't they keep it pegged to the Euro? "

Still waiting for an answer.........

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

"A Sweden, but they do have their own central bank and currency. Scotland on the other hand..."

Would need to, though it is not impossible they would retain the pound.

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

"They would use a new Scottish pound pegged to sterling to begin with. Lots of big hurdles but doable.

Why would they want to keep it pegged to sterling?

How would they keep it pegged to sterling?

Why wouldn't they keep it pegged to the Euro?

Still waiting for an answer........."

You want all these details all of a sudden. Funny how when brexiters are asked for details on anything we never get any. We don't even get a plan.

There are many different options, none of which are easy but perfectly possible.

Or do you not think it is possible for a newly independent country with already existing key institutions, such as a parliament and legal system to develop its own currency?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A Sweden, but they do have their own central bank and currency. Scotland on the other hand...

Would need to, though it is not impossible they would retain the pound. "
.

If they retain sterling your not independent, momentary policy is key to any sovereignty.

Thats why i disagree with the euro, the monetary policy of which is controlled by Germany for Germany, which is good for Germany but terrible for Greece, Spain Italy Portugal, these countries are massively net importers like the UK, Germany is a net exporter, its impossible to run the same monetary policy for all of them?.

So then if you cant you have to run a different fiscal policy but again the EU rules are no greater than 3 % deficits, now if you cant run a different monetary policy and you cant run big deficits?either and your a net importers which means your hemorrhaging cash outwards every month your only option is to export more, thats great but in reality your in a closed EU market where your main competitor is Germany who already has monetary policy set for it? Thats a big ask to defeat them by the likes of Greece.

The banking crises exposed these flaws in EU policy that were always there, unfortunately they just seem to be trying to tuff it out and hoping the banking shit will disappear rather than actually solving the problem

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

"They would use a new Scottish pound pegged to sterling to begin with. Lots of big hurdles but doable.

Why would they want to keep it pegged to sterling?

How would they keep it pegged to sterling?

Why wouldn't they keep it pegged to the Euro?

Still waiting for an answer.........

You want all these details all of a sudden. Funny how when brexiters are asked for details on anything we never get any. We don't even get a plan.

There are many different options, none of which are easy but perfectly possible.

Or do you not think it is possible for a newly independent country with already existing key institutions, such as a parliament and legal system to develop its own currency?"

Where have I did that? It was you who said they would have the Scottish pound (which, btw, they can call their new currency exactly what they want.

But you also said that they would peg their currency to the pound sterling - I asked you 3 questions for you to substantiate your statement.

Can't understand why they wouldn't peg it to the Euro, as they would want to join the EU.

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

You think they should join the euro, but I don't think the SNP or the Scottish people do. It's up to them, Europe won't make them, can't make them join the euro.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"You think they should join the euro, but I don't think the SNP or the Scottish people do. It's up to them, Europe won't make them, can't make them join the euro.

Correct no country that joins the EU are forced into using the euro its all scare stories.

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

"You think they should join the euro, but I don't think the SNP or the Scottish people do. It's up to them, Europe won't make them, can't make them join the euro.

Again, I haven't said that either!

Stop deflecting and answer the questions I asked!

Or are you unable to!

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

The attractiveness of pegging to sterling rather than the euro is because that is the currency the Scots are used to, the rest of the uk are its biggest trading partner partner. The uk as a whole didn't want to join the euro, I've not seen any polls for Scotland only but I assume, while they want to be in the eu, they probably are wary of joining the euro.

But it's not the only way they can go, just, to me, the most sensible way to start off since the English seem unlikely to agree to a currency union. Unofficial sterlingisation prevents it having a say in key decisions.

What would your choice be? Pegging to a range of currencies? Floating?

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

Neither, I prefer the current arrangement.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The attractiveness of pegging to sterling rather than the euro is because that is the currency the Scots are used to, the rest of the uk are its biggest trading partner partner. The uk as a whole didn't want to join the euro, I've not seen any polls for Scotland only but I assume, while they want to be in the eu, they probably are wary of joining the euro.

What would your choice be? Pegging to a range of currencies? Floating?

"
.

If its going to peg its currency to another, which in itself is a very costly exercise and its main income would be oil levy tax then it would only make sense to peg it to the dollar like Saudi Arabia has done for thirty years, however even Saudi Arabia which is rich beyond Scotlands dreams has almost bankrupted itself pegging its riyal to the dollar.

The only real alternative Scotland would have is bargaining? to retain sterling as its currency, now that would be a hard thing to bargain out for both sides as theres pros and cons for both Scotland and the ruk.

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

What would your choice be? Pegging to a range of currencies? Floating?

I just can't understand why they would want to leave the UK, join the EU, and then peg their new currency to sterling and not the Euro.

Especially when remainers, which Scotland are, keep banging on about the drop in sterling, how unstable it us, and how poor that drop is going to make us.

Neither can I see how the EU would accept Scotland as a new number with its currency pegged to sterling.

Like someone said in a previous post, if they're going to rely heavily on oil , and choose not to peg to the Euro ( what do they know about the Euro that we don't?!), why wouldn't they peg against the dollar?

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

As I understand it, their are several viable options and pegging against the dollar or the euro are certainly serious contenders, but every option has it's downside.

I think just because of the historical ties to sterling, the closeness of the trade ties with the rest of the UK and the general comfort the Scottish people have with the pound, that is the preferred initial option. There is nothing to stop them moving to a different option in the mid-term.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"As I understand it, their are several viable options and pegging against the dollar or the euro are certainly serious contenders, but every option has it's downside.

"
.

Why would you peg to the euro, your oil would be sold in dollars?

What happens if the euro gains alot of ground against the dollar, your losing money hand over fist.

To peg your currency costs you alot, you have to buy your own bonds to keep it maintained or in Switzerlands case when it tried pegging to the euro it had to sell vast amounts of gold and lowering its interest rates massively as the market said its currency should be higher than the euro, eventually it had to abandon the idea because it was costing them a fortune and causing problems internally? suppressed interest rates.

Pegging for Scotland would be a disaster.

They have two viable options.

1 continue to use sterling

2 float their own currency

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

'1 continue to use sterling'

Do you mean unofficially?

The problem with that is they are at the whim of the BofE but without a say on the board.

'2 float their own currency'

Probably a good idea in the medium to longer term, but in the early days of independence they will be at the mercy of market speculation, which could seriously affect the price of the currency.

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

It won't be in a currency union, so we have to discount that.

It's sterlingisation, or a new currency, that's the two options. Both flawed.

Fiscal Commission Working Group went over the options, this discussion is just going over old ground.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do Scotland actually have any money? Don't you have to have reserves of billions of pounds or equivalent before you can create your own currency?

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"You think they should join the euro, but I don't think the SNP or the Scottish people do. It's up to them, Europe won't make them, can't make them join the euro.

Correct no country that joins the EU are forced into using the euro its all scare stories.

While you are right to say that initially " no country is forced to join the Euro" I think you will find that any new member state has to agree a timetable to join it.

Other than joining the Euro, anything else that Scotland tries to take on would only be in the short term. Long term they would have to join the Euro.

However it is only an academic point as I still say that when the chips are down Spain will veto Scotland.

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By *icklybitMan over a year ago

Ayrshire

The five presidents report makes it quite clear the direction of future monetary union.

A more integrated EU, and the euro at the heart of it.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/publications/five-presidents-report-completing-europes-economic-and-monetary-union_en

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"You think they should join the euro, but I don't think the SNP or the Scottish people do. It's up to them, Europe won't make them, can't make them join the euro.

Correct no country that joins the EU are forced into using the euro its all scare stories.

While you are right to say that initially " no country is forced to join the Euro" I think you will find that any new member state has to agree a timetable to join it.

Other than joining the Euro, anything else that Scotland tries to take on would only be in the short term. Long term they would have to join the Euro.

However it is only an academic point as I still say that when the chips are down Spain will veto Scotland.

Thank you for saying no new member is forced to use the Euro.

That is your opinion but Spain has made it very clear they would not veto an independent Scotland.

Notice how the British media are not reporting 3 important things today

1. 50 top European politicians welcome Scotland in the EU.

2. Nicola Sturgeon has the highest approval ratings in Scotland and the rest are all negative.

3. New Ashcroft poll says the Majority of Scots think the UK is fucked with brexit.