FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Article 50 is triggered today.
Article 50 is triggered today.
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No, we have 2 years to agree a settlement with the EU that they are happy with. Then if we pay them enough they will give us a trade deal. They have told us this from day 1. At some point I am sure it will registrar. But don't worry Nige has said if it all turns out to be a disaster he is fucking off to live somewhere else, a bit like pig fucker Dave did after dropping us all in this shit to get a few extra months in No 10." We have the exact time given and stated clearly in article 50; which states that it can be 2 years, it can be less than 2 years, it can be greater than 2 years. 2 years is only a guide, of which if you go and read what is written you will clearly see it can be shorter or longer with the agreement of the EU countries. Seems to be a lot of name throwing "pig fucker Dave" why is this? It was in their manifesto that if they were voted back in they would in turn hold a referendum. Guess what folks; the people of the UK voted for this!!!!!!!!!!! . Then we had the referendum and the people of the UK voted overwhelmingly to leave, this was indeed mainly England & Wales . So if anyone is looking to point a finger, then stand up the people of England and Wales as these are the two countries who specifically voted to leave the EU. . 18 months time Scotland will be voting to leave the UK, the sooner this happens the better. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I call pig fucker Dave, pig fucker Dave because he stuck his cock into the mouth of a dead pig to get into Piers Gaveston society." Has this picture ever surfaced or is it still just the say so of some other guy ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This is all virgin territory for the EU and UK. . No one has ever held discussions or been thru this process before. This time limit to finalise the negotiations is in the procedure book but we all know, not a lot ever goes to plan " I take it you have read article 50 and that you are aware there is NO time limit | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No, we have 2 years to agree a settlement with the EU that they are happy with. Then if we pay them enough they will give us a trade deal. They have told us this from day 1. At some point I am sure it will registrar. But don't worry Nige has said if it all turns out to be a disaster he is fucking off to live somewhere else, a bit like pig fucker Dave did after dropping us all in this shit to get a few extra months in No 10. We have the exact time given and stated clearly in article 50; which states that it can be 2 years, it can be less than 2 years, it can be greater than 2 years. 2 years is only a guide, of which if you go and read what is written you will clearly see it can be shorter or longer with the agreement of the EU countries. Seems to be a lot of name throwing "pig fucker Dave" why is this? It was in their manifesto that if they were voted back in they would in turn hold a referendum. Guess what folks; the people of the UK voted for this!!!!!!!!!!! . Then we had the referendum and the people of the UK voted overwhelmingly to leave, this was indeed mainly England & Wales . So if anyone is looking to point a finger, then stand up the people of England and Wales as these are the two countries who specifically voted to leave the EU. . 18 months time Scotland will be voting to leave the UK, the sooner this happens the better." . 38% of Scots also voted for it, thats not like just two guys on the pub you know!. The question is really what are you going to do for the 38% who voted for brexit, im guessing youll do nothing for them and then you'll say, ah well the majority voted to stay in so tuff. Im not sure how we appease this large minority of people that differ so differently in how best to go forward, i voted remain, what do i get? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well offering the UK a good Brexit deal will only fuel the breakup of the EU, which I don't see being on Jean-Claude Juncker & Donald Tusks list of things to do in a hurry." Why will it if the EU is so good? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh how the tunes of Brexit has changed from Boris saying ..do you think the Germans wouldn't wana sell us there cars and French wouldn't wana sell us there wine we can limit imgration and have access to the single market...to today Davis saying ..we are aware we cannot cherry pick ..the only people sticking to their story through all this is the eu " No, you have it all wrong, the EU will offer us free trade & passporting rights and all the other stuff we have now with 3 out of the 4 freedoms - movement of people banned just for us, hell they might even pay us £350 million a week for the pleasure of trading with us too. Anyway, it's going to feel like a long 2 years  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well offering the UK a good Brexit deal will only fuel the breakup of the EU, which I don't see being on Jean-Claude Juncker & Donald Tusks list of things to do in a hurry. Why will it if the EU is so good?" It's your questions or statements / logic like this that defies belief so often 
I think you need to read it again, and again until you actually take in exactly what you typed in response to my post because you don't make any sense. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh how the tunes of Brexit has changed from Boris saying ..do you think the Germans wouldn't wana sell us there cars and French wouldn't wana sell us there wine we can limit imgration and have access to the single market...to today Davis saying ..we are aware we cannot cherry pick ..the only people sticking to their story through all this is the eu No, you have it all wrong, the EU will offer us free trade & passporting rights and all the other stuff we have now with 3 out of the 4 freedoms - movement of people banned just for us, hell they might even pay us £350 million a week for the pleasure of trading with us too. Anyway, it's going to feel like a long 2 years "** gives forum users something to talk about . fingers crossed all immigrants in England will move up North to Scotland too, register their right to vote and only one way they will vote   | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well offering the UK a good Brexit deal will only fuel the breakup of the EU, which I don't see being on Jean-Claude Juncker & Donald Tusks list of things to do in a hurry. Why will it if the EU is so good? It's your questions or statements / logic like this that defies belief so often
I think you need to read it again, and again until you actually take in exactly what you typed in response to my post because you don't make any sense."Why don't I? If the EU is so good why would anyone else want to leave? Even if the UK gets a good deal? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well offering the UK a good Brexit deal will only fuel the breakup of the EU, which I don't see being on Jean-Claude Juncker & Donald Tusks list of things to do in a hurry. Why will it if the EU is so good? It's your questions or statements / logic like this that defies belief so often
I think you need to read it again, and again until you actually take in exactly what you typed in response to my post because you don't make any sense.
Why don't I? If the EU is so good why would anyone else want to leave? Even if the UK gets a good deal?"If the UK leaves the EU and no longer has to pay into the EU fund but still gets the benefits of free trade through 3 of the 4 freedoms WITHOUT freedom of movement of people then what is stopping any of the other "Net" contributing Member states saying well if the UK can get a good deal and not have to pay for it then why should we continue paying for membership. All net contributing states would do the same as us, leaving just the negative net contributing states which obviously wouldn't work too well. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well offering the UK a good Brexit deal will only fuel the breakup of the EU, which I don't see being on Jean-Claude Juncker & Donald Tusks list of things to do in a hurry. Why will it if the EU is so good? It's your questions or statements / logic like this that defies belief so often
I think you need to read it again, and again until you actually take in exactly what you typed in response to my post because you don't make any sense.
Why don't I? If the EU is so good why would anyone else want to leave? Even if the UK gets a good deal?
If the UK leaves the EU and no longer has to pay into the EU fund but still gets the benefits of free trade through 3 of the 4 freedoms WITHOUT freedom of movement of people then what is stopping any of the other "Net" contributing Member states saying well if the UK can get a good deal and not have to pay for it then why should we continue paying for membership.
All net contributing states would do the same as us, leaving just the negative net contributing states which obviously wouldn't work too well."The EU has these Four Freedoms enshrined and will not compromise. However the EU is no longer a " one size fits all" organisation, and requires change. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well offering the UK a good Brexit deal will only fuel the breakup of the EU, which I don't see being on Jean-Claude Juncker & Donald Tusks list of things to do in a hurry. Why will it if the EU is so good? It's your questions or statements / logic like this that defies belief so often
I think you need to read it again, and again until you actually take in exactly what you typed in response to my post because you don't make any sense.
Why don't I? If the EU is so good why would anyone else want to leave? Even if the UK gets a good deal?
If the UK leaves the EU and no longer has to pay into the EU fund but still gets the benefits of free trade through 3 of the 4 freedoms WITHOUT freedom of movement of people then what is stopping any of the other "Net" contributing Member states saying well if the UK can get a good deal and not have to pay for it then why should we continue paying for membership.
All net contributing states would do the same as us, leaving just the negative net contributing states which obviously wouldn't work too well."Why not? So basically if we could get a good deal with other countries and vice versa, then what is the point of the EU? Other than easy movement of cheap labour? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This is all virgin territory for the EU and UK. . No one has ever held discussions or been thru this process before. This time limit to finalise the negotiations is in the procedure book but we all know, not a lot ever goes to plan I take it you have read article 50 and that you are aware there is NO time limit" There isn't a time limit but any extension has to be unanimously agreed by all member states of the European Council. However, it's a bit of a moot point as no-one's ever done it before and I'm not quite sure they could just shut down negotiations at 2 years if Cyprus decided they didn't want to offer an extension. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well offering the UK a good Brexit deal will only fuel the breakup of the EU, which I don't see being on Jean-Claude Juncker & Donald Tusks list of things to do in a hurry. Why will it if the EU is so good? It's your questions or statements / logic like this that defies belief so often
I think you need to read it again, and again until you actually take in exactly what you typed in response to my post because you don't make any sense.
Why don't I? If the EU is so good why would anyone else want to leave? Even if the UK gets a good deal?
If the UK leaves the EU and no longer has to pay into the EU fund but still gets the benefits of free trade through 3 of the 4 freedoms WITHOUT freedom of movement of people then what is stopping any of the other "Net" contributing Member states saying well if the UK can get a good deal and not have to pay for it then why should we continue paying for membership.
All net contributing states would do the same as us, leaving just the negative net contributing states which obviously wouldn't work too well.
Why not? So basically if we could get a good deal with other countries and vice versa, then what is the point of the EU? Other than easy movement of cheap labour?"Best result all round for net contributing nations would be the end of the EU as such and simply trade freely with no tariffs between each other, I've said that before, but I don't see that happening. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well offering the UK a good Brexit deal will only fuel the breakup of the EU, which I don't see being on Jean-Claude Juncker & Donald Tusks list of things to do in a hurry. Why will it if the EU is so good? It's your questions or statements / logic like this that defies belief so often
I think you need to read it again, and again until you actually take in exactly what you typed in response to my post because you don't make any sense.
Why don't I? If the EU is so good why would anyone else want to leave? Even if the UK gets a good deal?
If the UK leaves the EU and no longer has to pay into the EU fund but still gets the benefits of free trade through 3 of the 4 freedoms WITHOUT freedom of movement of people then what is stopping any of the other "Net" contributing Member states saying well if the UK can get a good deal and not have to pay for it then why should we continue paying for membership.
All net contributing states would do the same as us, leaving just the negative net contributing states which obviously wouldn't work too well.
Why not? So basically if we could get a good deal with other countries and vice versa, then what is the point of the EU? Other than easy movement of cheap labour?
Best result all round for net contributing nations would be the end of the EU as such and simply trade freely with no tariffs between each other, I've said that before, but I don't see that happening."Two states, with two identical products but one has more 'disposable income' than the other and decides to flood the 'poor' state with vastly discounted versions of their product. Can you see that ending well? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh how the tunes of Brexit has changed from Boris saying ..do you think the Germans wouldn't wana sell us there cars and French wouldn't wana sell us there wine we can limit imgration and have access to the single market...to today Davis saying ..we are aware we cannot cherry pick ..the only people sticking to their story through all this is the eu No, you have it all wrong, the EU will offer us free trade & passporting rights and all the other stuff we have now with 3 out of the 4 freedoms - movement of people banned just for us, hell they might even pay us £350 million a week for the pleasure of trading with us too. Anyway, it's going to feel like a long 2 years
** gives forum users something to talk about
.
fingers crossed all immigrants in England will move up North to Scotland too, register their right to vote and only one way they will vote "Who are you trying to kid? We all know you supported Brexit on here during the referendum. All the SNP don't support remaining in the EU either. One third of SNP voters voted for Brexit. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The chair of the constitutional committee in Brussels says Scotland's vote won't be ignored in Brexit negotiations The EU care about Scotland and N.Ireland and Gibraltar more than the UK government does. " It wasn't the UK government, it was actually the Supreme court who ruled the devolved parliament's don't get a say on Brexit. Only Westminster decides the UK position on Brexit. You and Nicola Sturgeon better suck it up.  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh how the tunes of Brexit has changed from Boris saying ..do you think the Germans wouldn't wana sell us there cars and French wouldn't wana sell us there wine we can limit imgration and have access to the single market...to today Davis saying ..we are aware we cannot cherry pick ..the only people sticking to their story through all this is the eu No, you have it all wrong, the EU will offer us free trade & passporting rights and all the other stuff we have now with 3 out of the 4 freedoms - movement of people banned just for us, hell they might even pay us £350 million a week for the pleasure of trading with us too. Anyway, it's going to feel like a long 2 years
** gives forum users something to talk about
.
fingers crossed all immigrants in England will move up North to Scotland too, register their right to vote and only one way they will vote
Who are you trying to kid? We all know you supported Brexit on here during the referendum. All the SNP don't support remaining in the EU either. One third of SNP voters voted for Brexit. "I wonder how you managed to work out a 3rd of SNP voters voted for brexit as the EU referendum was not about any parties i didnt see anyone standing out of my polling station asking me what party i vote for. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh how the tunes of Brexit has changed from Boris saying ..do you think the Germans wouldn't wana sell us there cars and French wouldn't wana sell us there wine we can limit imgration and have access to the single market...to today Davis saying ..we are aware we cannot cherry pick ..the only people sticking to their story through all this is the eu No, you have it all wrong, the EU will offer us free trade & passporting rights and all the other stuff we have now with 3 out of the 4 freedoms - movement of people banned just for us, hell they might even pay us £350 million a week for the pleasure of trading with us too. Anyway, it's going to feel like a long 2 years
** gives forum users something to talk about
.
fingers crossed all immigrants in England will move up North to Scotland too, register their right to vote and only one way they will vote
Who are you trying to kid? We all know you supported Brexit on here during the referendum. All the SNP don't support remaining in the EU either. One third of SNP voters voted for Brexit.
I wonder how you managed to work out a 3rd of SNP voters voted for brexit as the EU referendum was not about any parties i didnt see anyone standing out of my polling station asking me what party i vote for. "It's called analysis of statistics and mathematics. Even the former deputy leader of the SNP Jim Sillars publically supported Brexit and was on the Scotland Leave campaign with other SNP figures. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The chair of the constitutional committee in Brussels says Scotland's vote won't be ignored in Brexit negotiations The EU care about Scotland and N.Ireland and Gibraltar more than the UK government does. It wasn't the UK government, it was actually the Supreme court who ruled the devolved parliament's don't get a say on Brexit. Only Westminster decides the UK position on Brexit. You and Nicola Sturgeon better suck it up. "Yeah and what does that say about the Scotland act ? I will tell you you can wipe your arse on that act. The Supreme court done Scotland a favor for everyone to see that the Scotland act is a piece of shite Some equal partnership eh suck it up ? I get believe in the union/ UK thats all fair enough i dont but that kinda shite there shows how much its not an equal partnership with comments like that ''suck it up'' | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The chair of the constitutional committee in Brussels says Scotland's vote won't be ignored in Brexit negotiations The EU care about Scotland and N.Ireland and Gibraltar more than the UK government does. It wasn't the UK government, it was actually the Supreme court who ruled the devolved parliament's don't get a say on Brexit. Only Westminster decides the UK position on Brexit. You and Nicola Sturgeon better suck it up.
Yeah and what does that say about the Scotland act ? I will tell you you can wipe your arse on that act.
The Supreme court done Scotland a favor for everyone to see that the Scotland act is a piece of shite
Some equal partnership eh suck it up ?
I get believe in the union/ UK thats all fair enough i dont but that kinda shite there shows how much its not an equal partnership with comments like that ''suck it up'' "Yet you and other SNP fanatics on here constantly berate the English on here and you think that's all ok and acceptable? As far as the Supreme court goes have you even bothered to read the ruling? The Supreme court ruled that it was Westminster that took the UK into the EU therefore only Westminster can take the UK out of the EU. It's laughable that SNP supporters think they can hold the rest of the UK to ransom over Brexit. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The chair of the constitutional committee in Brussels says Scotland's vote won't be ignored in Brexit negotiations The EU care about Scotland and N.Ireland and Gibraltar more than the UK government does. It wasn't the UK government, it was actually the Supreme court who ruled the devolved parliament's don't get a say on Brexit. Only Westminster decides the UK position on Brexit. You and Nicola Sturgeon better suck it up.
Yeah and what does that say about the Scotland act ? I will tell you you can wipe your arse on that act.
The Supreme court done Scotland a favor for everyone to see that the Scotland act is a piece of shite
Some equal partnership eh suck it up ?
I get believe in the union/ UK thats all fair enough i dont but that kinda shite there shows how much its not an equal partnership with comments like that ''suck it up''
Yet you and other SNP fanatics on here constantly berate the English on here and you think that's all ok and acceptable?
As far as the Supreme court goes have you even bothered to read the ruling? The Supreme court ruled that it was Westminster that took the UK into the EU therefore only Westminster can take the UK out of the EU. It's laughable that SNP supporters think they can hold the rest of the UK to ransom over Brexit. "You do know there is English born members in the SNP right ? Nope i have not i have English family i love to bits and no i dont hate England i want to be equal partners and neighbours in independent countries am anti Westminster as am sure there is people in England that are anti Westminster. Yes i have read it and its all interesting to see now yes it does say the UK government will decide but the UK government could have talks and bring in each devolved parliament / assembles in on talks but they have pretty much said shut up and eat your cereal people in Scotland will get what i mean by that. I will twist that and why is it ok to hold Scotland to ransom and say a country that voted to remain should leave the EU and have no say in it ? What it shows is the UK is not a united Kingdom like some people like to think it is. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The chair of the constitutional committee in Brussels says Scotland's vote won't be ignored in Brexit negotiations The EU care about Scotland and N.Ireland and Gibraltar more than the UK government does. It wasn't the UK government, it was actually the Supreme court who ruled the devolved parliament's don't get a say on Brexit. Only Westminster decides the UK position on Brexit. You and Nicola Sturgeon better suck it up.
Yeah and what does that say about the Scotland act ? I will tell you you can wipe your arse on that act.
The Supreme court done Scotland a favor for everyone to see that the Scotland act is a piece of shite
Some equal partnership eh suck it up ?
I get believe in the union/ UK thats all fair enough i dont but that kinda shite there shows how much its not an equal partnership with comments like that ''suck it up''
Yet you and other SNP fanatics on here constantly berate the English on here and you think that's all ok and acceptable?
As far as the Supreme court goes have you even bothered to read the ruling? The Supreme court ruled that it was Westminster that took the UK into the EU therefore only Westminster can take the UK out of the EU. It's laughable that SNP supporters think they can hold the rest of the UK to ransom over Brexit.
You do know there is English born members in the SNP right ?
Nope i have not i have English family i love to bits and no i dont hate England i want to be equal partners and neighbours in independent countries am anti Westminster as am sure there is people in England that are anti Westminster.
Yes i have read it and its all interesting to see now yes it does say the UK government will decide but the UK government could have talks and bring in each devolved parliament / assembles in on talks but they have pretty much said shut up and eat your cereal people in Scotland will get what i mean by that.
I will twist that and why is it ok to hold Scotland to ransom and say a country that voted to remain should leave the EU and have no say in it ?
What it shows is the UK is not a united Kingdom like some people like to think it is. "Simply because the EU referendum was not a Scotland vote it was a UK wide vote. The UK voted to leave as a whole and that is what will happen. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No, we have 2 years to agree a settlement with the EU that they are happy with. Then if we pay them enough they will give us a trade deal. They have told us this from day 1. At some point I am sure it will registrar. But don't worry Nige has said if it all turns out to be a disaster he is fucking off to live somewhere else, a bit like pig fucker Dave did after dropping us all in this shit to get a few extra months in No 10." Yes and they will run with their tale between the legs to take juans offer to rejoin. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The chair of the constitutional committee in Brussels says Scotland's vote won't be ignored in Brexit negotiations The EU care about Scotland and N.Ireland and Gibraltar more than the UK government does. It wasn't the UK government, it was actually the Supreme court who ruled the devolved parliament's don't get a say on Brexit. Only Westminster decides the UK position on Brexit. You and Nicola Sturgeon better suck it up.
Yeah and what does that say about the Scotland act ? I will tell you you can wipe your arse on that act.
The Supreme court done Scotland a favor for everyone to see that the Scotland act is a piece of shite
Some equal partnership eh suck it up ?
I get believe in the union/ UK thats all fair enough i dont but that kinda shite there shows how much its not an equal partnership with comments like that ''suck it up''
Yet you and other SNP fanatics on here constantly berate the English on here and you think that's all ok and acceptable?
As far as the Supreme court goes have you even bothered to read the ruling? The Supreme court ruled that it was Westminster that took the UK into the EU therefore only Westminster can take the UK out of the EU. It's laughable that SNP supporters think they can hold the rest of the UK to ransom over Brexit.
You do know there is English born members in the SNP right ?
Nope i have not i have English family i love to bits and no i dont hate England i want to be equal partners and neighbours in independent countries am anti Westminster as am sure there is people in England that are anti Westminster.
Yes i have read it and its all interesting to see now yes it does say the UK government will decide but the UK government could have talks and bring in each devolved parliament / assembles in on talks but they have pretty much said shut up and eat your cereal people in Scotland will get what i mean by that.
I will twist that and why is it ok to hold Scotland to ransom and say a country that voted to remain should leave the EU and have no say in it ?
What it shows is the UK is not a united Kingdom like some people like to think it is.
Simply because the EU referendum was not a Scotland vote it was a UK wide vote. The UK voted to leave as a whole and that is what will happen. "Yes i know it was a UK vote on the EU referendum but like i said the Surpreme cout done Scotland a favor by saying its the UK government that get to decide they however didnt say the UK government cannot bring the devolved parliaments and assembles into the talks correct ? So what the Scottish government are doing is making sure Scotland will get a say if Scotland agrees on the final deal on brexit or if people in Scotland prefer an independent country No one has the right to deny people that have changed their minds on independence. There could be no voters not happy to be taken out of the EU and there could be yes voters that would vote no in another referendum on independence but not one person has the right to tell someone they change their minds thats why there will be another independence referendum and its all the Tories fault they could still respect Scotland vote to remain and respect Scotland want to have full membership of the single market and all talk of independence will go away I dont mind staying in the UK if the UK government start to respect the Scottish voters | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh how the tunes of Brexit has changed from Boris saying ..do you think the Germans wouldn't wana sell us there cars and French wouldn't wana sell us there wine we can limit imgration and have access to the single market...to today Davis saying ..we are aware we cannot cherry pick ..the only people sticking to their story through all this is the eu No, you have it all wrong, the EU will offer us free trade & passporting rights and all the other stuff we have now with 3 out of the 4 freedoms - movement of people banned just for us, hell they might even pay us £350 million a week for the pleasure of trading with us too. Anyway, it's going to feel like a long 2 years
** gives forum users something to talk about
.
fingers crossed all immigrants in England will move up North to Scotland too, register their right to vote and only one way they will vote
Who are you trying to kid? We all know you supported Brexit on here during the referendum. All the SNP don't support remaining in the EU either. One third of SNP voters voted for Brexit.
I wonder how you managed to work out a 3rd of SNP voters voted for brexit as the EU referendum was not about any parties i didnt see anyone standing out of my polling station asking me what party i vote for.
It's called analysis of statistics and mathematics. Even the former deputy leader of the SNP Jim Sillars publically supported Brexit and was on the Scotland Leave campaign with other SNP figures. "Reading one poll from Survation hardly qualifies as analysing statistics and mathematics. The figures you quoted are correct but don't claim to have arrived at them by actually doing anything analytical apart from reading a Daily Express report on a poll and then finding the source! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Thing is though, what is the point on having Brexit talks between the UK Government, Scotland & Northern Ireland if the UK Government is leaving the EU anyway. Would there really be much to talk about ? UK: We're leaving the EU. Scotland: We don't want to. Wales: Whoo we're leaving. Northern Ireland: We don't want to. UK: We're leaving. Once we've left then it could cause the breakup of the UK with Scotland and maybe NI going their own ways." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh how the tunes of Brexit has changed from Boris saying ..do you think the Germans wouldn't wana sell us there cars and French wouldn't wana sell us there wine we can limit imgration and have access to the single market...to today Davis saying ..we are aware we cannot cherry pick ..the only people sticking to their story through all this is the eu No, you have it all wrong, the EU will offer us free trade & passporting rights and all the other stuff we have now with 3 out of the 4 freedoms - movement of people banned just for us, hell they might even pay us £350 million a week for the pleasure of trading with us too. Anyway, it's going to feel like a long 2 years
** gives forum users something to talk about
.
fingers crossed all immigrants in England will move up North to Scotland too, register their right to vote and only one way they will vote
Who are you trying to kid? We all know you supported Brexit on here during the referendum. All the SNP don't support remaining in the EU either. One third of SNP voters voted for Brexit.
I wonder how you managed to work out a 3rd of SNP voters voted for brexit as the EU referendum was not about any parties i didnt see anyone standing out of my polling station asking me what party i vote for.
It's called analysis of statistics and mathematics. Even the former deputy leader of the SNP Jim Sillars publically supported Brexit and was on the Scotland Leave campaign with other SNP figures.
Reading one poll from Survation hardly qualifies as analysing statistics and mathematics.
The figures you quoted are correct but don't claim to have arrived at them by actually doing anything analytical apart from reading a Daily Express report on a poll and then finding the source!"Yam frum Canuck for God's sairk, it's a cowin' miricull yow can rade in the fust plairce! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"can i just say centaur that i am finding it highly amusing that you are bringing up the supreme court and defending it's decision with gusto.... when you were slaughtering Gina Miller and Deir Tozetti Dos Santos for taking the case to the high court in the first place... you have set off the irony alarms all around my house..... go on.... say it.... you know you want to... "Thank.........you.......... Gina!!!!" "I think it's more than a little ironic that Centaur now believes the data about how SNP voters voted, I do wonder however if he accepts the data about the educational qualification or socio-economic groupings about Leave and Remain voters? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Tory Brexit letter sets out 7 UK negotiating principles - but no pledge to seek a compromise deal for Scotland. Scottish Goverment officially ignored Yet the EU say they will not ignore Scotland votes to remain along with N.Ireland Spells out there is no United Kingdom never has never will be " Scotland is NOT a country, therefore the EU cannot recognise it. It would be like the EU favouring Bavaria or Catalonia. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Scotland is NOT a country, therefore the EU cannot recognise it. ." How to win friends and influence people | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Scotland is NOT a country, therefore the EU cannot recognise it. . How to win friends and influence people " I was talking in a legal sense. It's the UK leaving, not the individual constituent parts. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Tory Brexit letter sets out 7 UK negotiating principles - but no pledge to seek a compromise deal for Scotland. Scottish Goverment officially ignored Yet the EU say they will not ignore Scotland votes to remain along with N.Ireland Spells out there is no United Kingdom never has never will be Scotland is NOT a country, therefore the EU cannot recognise it. It would be like the EU favouring Bavaria or Catalonia." Not a country ? Scotland is NOT a region Scotland is a country just as England is a country and Wales and N.Ireland What you mean is the UK is member state yes thats correct but if you want a United Kingdom then the UK government have to start showing some respect to all 4 countries that are in the UK or else some of those countries will wave goodbye to the UK and break it up Like i said am willing to stay in the UK as long as the UK government start to show some respect and knowledge some of the countries in the UK do not want to leave the EU and single market. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Tory Brexit letter sets out 7 UK negotiating principles - but no pledge to seek a compromise deal for Scotland. Scottish Goverment officially ignored Yet the EU say they will not ignore Scotland votes to remain along with N.Ireland Spells out there is no United Kingdom never has never will be Scotland is NOT a country, therefore the EU cannot recognise it. It would be like the EU favouring Bavaria or Catalonia. Not a country ? Scotland is NOT a region Scotland is a country just as England is a country and Wales and N.Ireland What you mean is the UK is member state yes thats correct but if you want a United Kingdom then the UK government have to start showing some respect to all 4 countries that are in the UK or else some of those countries will wave goodbye to the UK and break it up Like i said am willing to stay in the UK as long as the UK government start to show some respect and knowledge some of the countries in the UK do not want to leave the EU and single market. " According to the Article 50 letter... "From the start and throughout the discussions, we will negotiate as one United Kingdom, taking due account of the specific interests of every nation and region of the UK as we do so. When it comes to the return of powers back to the United Kingdom, we will consult fully on which powers should reside in Westminster and which should be devolved to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. But it is the expectation of the Government that the outcome of this process will be a significant increase in the decision-making power of each devolved administration." Now, they wouldn't lie, would they? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Scotland is NOT a region Scotland is a country just as England is a country and Wales and N.Ireland " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Scotland is NOT a country, therefore the EU cannot recognise it. . How to win friends and influence people " He's clearly never met a Catalan either
-Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Tory Brexit letter sets out 7 UK negotiating principles - but no pledge to seek a compromise deal for Scotland. Scottish Goverment officially ignored Yet the EU say they will not ignore Scotland votes to remain along with N.Ireland Spells out there is no United Kingdom never has never will be Scotland is NOT a country, therefore the EU cannot recognise it. It would be like the EU favouring Bavaria or Catalonia. Not a country ? Scotland is NOT a region Scotland is a country just as England is a country and Wales and N.Ireland What you mean is the UK is member state yes thats correct but if you want a United Kingdom then the UK government have to start showing some respect to all 4 countries that are in the UK or else some of those countries will wave goodbye to the UK and break it up Like i said am willing to stay in the UK as long as the UK government start to show some respect and knowledge some of the countries in the UK do not want to leave the EU and single market. According to the Article 50 letter... "From the start and throughout the discussions, we will negotiate as one United Kingdom, taking due account of the specific interests of every nation and region of the UK as we do so. When it comes to the return of powers back to the United Kingdom, we will consult fully on which powers should reside in Westminster and which should be devolved to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. But it is the expectation of the Government that the outcome of this process will be a significant increase in the decision-making power of each devolved administration." Now, they wouldn't lie, would they? "I don't know... were their lips moving as they were typing that?
-Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Tory Brexit letter sets out 7 UK negotiating principles - but no pledge to seek a compromise deal for Scotland. Scottish Goverment officially ignored Yet the EU say they will not ignore Scotland votes to remain along with N.Ireland Spells out there is no United Kingdom never has never will be Scotland is NOT a country, therefore the EU cannot recognise it. It would be like the EU favouring Bavaria or Catalonia. Not a country ? Scotland is NOT a region Scotland is a country just as England is a country and Wales and N.Ireland What you mean is the UK is member state yes thats correct but if you want a United Kingdom then the UK government have to start showing some respect to all 4 countries that are in the UK or else some of those countries will wave goodbye to the UK and break it up Like i said am willing to stay in the UK as long as the UK government start to show some respect and knowledge some of the countries in the UK do not want to leave the EU and single market. According to the Article 50 letter... "From the start and throughout the discussions, we will negotiate as one United Kingdom, taking due account of the specific interests of every nation and region of the UK as we do so. When it comes to the return of powers back to the United Kingdom, we will consult fully on which powers should reside in Westminster and which should be devolved to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. But it is the expectation of the Government that the outcome of this process will be a significant increase in the decision-making power of each devolved administration." Now, they wouldn't lie, would they?
I don't know... were their lips moving as they were typing that?
-Matt"What I also found odd was the wording around economic and security negotiations...counter, terrorism cooperation definitely appeared to be being used as a stick by our government to get an economic agreement. Could just be the way I was reading it and my researcher bias I suppose though! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"can i just say centaur that i am finding it highly amusing that you are bringing up the supreme court and defending it's decision with gusto.... when you were slaughtering Gina Miller and Deir Tozetti Dos Santos for taking the case to the high court in the first place... you have set off the irony alarms all around my house..... go on.... say it.... you know you want to... "Thank.........you.......... Gina!!!!" "There is nothing ironic about it _abio, I still think Gina Miller is a vile, petulant, despicable woman whose real motivation for the court case was to attempt to throw a spanner in the works and ultimately delay or derail Brexit. It just so happened to all blow up in her face in spectacular fashion when the Government appealed the high Court decision and then the Supreme court made the ruling on the devolved Parliaments, lol. I must admit I did take great pleasure in seeing her pathetic attempts to thwart Brexit fall flat on her face. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"can i just say centaur that i am finding it highly amusing that you are bringing up the supreme court and defending it's decision with gusto.... when you were slaughtering Gina Miller and Deir Tozetti Dos Santos for taking the case to the high court in the first place... you have set off the irony alarms all around my house..... go on.... say it.... you know you want to... "Thank.........you.......... Gina!!!!"
I think it's more than a little ironic that Centaur now believes the data about how SNP voters voted, I do wonder however if he accepts the data about the educational qualification or socio-economic groupings about Leave and Remain voters? "What do you think of the data about the educational and socio-economic groupings in the independance for Scotland voters? Which groups favoured/favour the break up of the UK most? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"can i just say centaur that i am finding it highly amusing that you are bringing up the supreme court and defending it's decision with gusto.... when you were slaughtering Gina Miller and Deir Tozetti Dos Santos for taking the case to the high court in the first place... you have set off the irony alarms all around my house..... go on.... say it.... you know you want to... "Thank.........you.......... Gina!!!!"
I think it's more than a little ironic that Centaur now believes the data about how SNP voters voted, I do wonder however if he accepts the data about the educational qualification or socio-economic groupings about Leave and Remain voters? "Does it really matter if someone has been to uni, or has a degree or not? You really are showing just how snobbish you are now. We live in a democracy, and thankfully democratic values are still a key British value. One person, one vote, the level of their education has fuck all to do with it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"can i just say centaur that i am finding it highly amusing that you are bringing up the supreme court and defending it's decision with gusto.... when you were slaughtering Gina Miller and Deir Tozetti Dos Santos for taking the case to the high court in the first place... you have set off the irony alarms all around my house..... go on.... say it.... you know you want to... "Thank.........you.......... Gina!!!!"
There is nothing ironic about it _abio, I still think Gina Miller is a vile, petulant, despicable woman whose real motivation for the court case was to attempt to throw a spanner in the works and ultimately delay or derail Brexit. It just so happened to all blow up in her face in spectacular fashion when the Government appealed the high Court decision and then the Supreme court made the ruling on the devolved Parliaments, lol. I must admit I did take great pleasure in seeing her pathetic attempts to thwart Brexit fall flat on her face. "jeez... here we go again.... Gina Miller (a remainer) AND Deir Tozetti Dos Santos (a leaver) BOTH took the case to the high court TOGETHER because they BOTH believed it should be parliament who should have say..... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"can i just say centaur that i am finding it highly amusing that you are bringing up the supreme court and defending it's decision with gusto.... when you were slaughtering Gina Miller and Deir Tozetti Dos Santos for taking the case to the high court in the first place... you have set off the irony alarms all around my house..... go on.... say it.... you know you want to... "Thank.........you.......... Gina!!!!"
There is nothing ironic about it _abio, I still think Gina Miller is a vile, petulant, despicable woman whose real motivation for the court case was to attempt to throw a spanner in the works and ultimately delay or derail Brexit. It just so happened to all blow up in her face in spectacular fashion when the Government appealed the high Court decision and then the Supreme court made the ruling on the devolved Parliaments, lol. I must admit I did take great pleasure in seeing her pathetic attempts to thwart Brexit fall flat on her face.
jeez... here we go again....
Gina Miller (a remainer) AND Deir Tozetti Dos Santos (a leaver) BOTH took the case to the high court TOGETHER because they BOTH believed it should be parliament who should have say.....
"You know you don't really believe that | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Tory Brexit letter sets out 7 UK negotiating principles - but no pledge to seek a compromise deal for Scotland. Scottish Goverment officially ignored Yet the EU say they will not ignore Scotland votes to remain along with N.Ireland Spells out there is no United Kingdom never has never will be Scotland is NOT a country, therefore the EU cannot recognise it. It would be like the EU favouring Bavaria or Catalonia. Not a country ? Scotland is NOT a region Scotland is a country just as England is a country and Wales and N.Ireland What you mean is the UK is member state yes thats correct but if you want a United Kingdom then the UK government have to start showing some respect to all 4 countries that are in the UK or else some of those countries will wave goodbye to the UK and break it up Like i said am willing to stay in the UK as long as the UK government start to show some respect and knowledge some of the countries in the UK do not want to leave the EU and single market. " Frankly that's bullshit. The SNP will look for any excuse for independence for Scotland, and Brexit just happens to be the latest excuse. Secondly Scotland has never joined the EU, therefore Scotland cannot remain in the EU because Scotland is not a member on its own. It is the UK who is a member of the EU and it is the UK who is leaving. If Scotland wants to be in the EU then it will have to apply to join as an independent country. Quite how Nicola Sturgeon will square that with all the SNP supporters who voted for Brexit is anyone's guess? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" 38% of Scots also voted for it, thats not like just two guys on the pub you know!. " No they did not! 38% of the Scots that voted, voted out. The 2 are totally different things. And while we are on this subject how come when the Tories introduced legislation to force unions to hold in out ballots for industrial action did was the law made so that not only had there to be a majority in favour of the action but that majority had to be a minimum of 40% of all those entitled to vote but they did not do similar with the referendum? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"An assembly under a sovereign Goverment is region or a province, and is not a country. Scotland, Catalonia, Bavaria or Wallonia can call themselves what they like, their people can use whatever name they like but they will not get around the legal definition." I notice you left out N.Ireland as they are sovereign and the Uk need consent from them Thats the way to respect other countries is to call them non countries Scotland is not a region we are not a colony we are not north Britain Scotland is country | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You know you don't really believe that" both of there names are on all of the court documents.... both of them were at the opening hearings... both of them got death threats....... Dos Santos decided to take a much lower profile because of them.... I know you are really, really going to hate what i am about the say.... but you should actually be applauding Miller for standing up to the threats and in effect becomimg the defacto face of the case.... his name has always been on all of the case notes... and still are... miller and dos santos vs the crown | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"can i just say centaur that i am finding it highly amusing that you are bringing up the supreme court and defending it's decision with gusto.... when you were slaughtering Gina Miller and Deir Tozetti Dos Santos for taking the case to the high court in the first place... you have set off the irony alarms all around my house..... go on.... say it.... you know you want to... "Thank.........you.......... Gina!!!!"
There is nothing ironic about it _abio, I still think Gina Miller is a vile, petulant, despicable woman whose real motivation for the court case was to attempt to throw a spanner in the works and ultimately delay or derail Brexit. It just so happened to all blow up in her face in spectacular fashion when the Government appealed the high Court decision and then the Supreme court made the ruling on the devolved Parliaments, lol. I must admit I did take great pleasure in seeing her pathetic attempts to thwart Brexit fall flat on her face. "I still don't understand your definition of 'blew up in her face in spectacular fashion'. I mean, yes by all means say you think she is vile, petulant, despicable if you want, they are all your (well considered, based on someone you've probably never met) opinion and subjective. But she (and Dos Santos) took the government to court over who had the right to trigger A50. They won. The government appealed. The government lost the appeal. How in any way can you spin that to be 'blew up in her face in spectacular fashion'? -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"An assembly under a sovereign Goverment is region or a province, and is not a country. Scotland, Catalonia, Bavaria or Wallonia can call themselves what they like, their people can use whatever name they like but they will not get around the legal definition. I notice you left out N.Ireland as they are sovereign and the Uk need consent from them Thats the way to respect other countries is to call them non countries Scotland is not a region we are not a colony we are not north Britain Scotland is country " I was expressing facts not an opinion. Any Scots wanting Independence need to be clear on their facts, because the other side will certainly make any slip up known. I've had to put people right on the legality of a referendum, the timing of any referendum, the legality of Scottish currency......all things that are basic facts. Rhetoric will not win an argument alone, it needs to be backed up with facts, otherwise you will end up just looking foolish. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You know you don't really believe that both of there names are on all of the court documents.... both of them were at the opening hearings... both of them got death threats....... Dos Santos decided to take a much lower profile because of them.... I know you are really, really going to hate what i am about the say.... but you should actually be applauding Miller for standing up to the threats and in effect becomimg the defacto face of the case.... his name has always been on all of the case notes... and still are... miller and dos santos vs the crown " I know that but don't pretend that Miller was concerned with democracy | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"can i just say centaur that i am finding it highly amusing that you are bringing up the supreme court and defending it's decision with gusto.... when you were slaughtering Gina Miller and Deir Tozetti Dos Santos for taking the case to the high court in the first place... you have set off the irony alarms all around my house..... go on.... say it.... you know you want to... "Thank.........you.......... Gina!!!!"
I think it's more than a little ironic that Centaur now believes the data about how SNP voters voted, I do wonder however if he accepts the data about the educational qualification or socio-economic groupings about Leave and Remain voters?
Does it really matter if someone has been to uni, or has a degree or not? You really are showing just how snobbish you are now. We live in a democracy, and thankfully democratic values are still a key British value. One person, one vote, the level of their education has fuck all to do with it. "Actually yes it does matter. Not specifically university or not, but education level does matter in this case. The general British public was asked to vote on a very complex topic. What their level of understanding and ability to understand that topic is actually quite important. It is not being snobbish. It just is a fact that if you want someone to vote on something it is important they can understand what they are voting on. The referendum was a massively complex topic that was boiled down to two words 'leave' or 'remain'. The government should have taken the outcome of their advisory referendum and then investigated in further detail what the issues were and what was affecting the voters and then worked from there. -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"can i just say centaur that i am finding it highly amusing that you are bringing up the supreme court and defending it's decision with gusto.... when you were slaughtering Gina Miller and Deir Tozetti Dos Santos for taking the case to the high court in the first place... you have set off the irony alarms all around my house..... go on.... say it.... you know you want to... "Thank.........you.......... Gina!!!!"
There is nothing ironic about it _abio, I still think Gina Miller is a vile, petulant, despicable woman whose real motivation for the court case was to attempt to throw a spanner in the works and ultimately delay or derail Brexit. It just so happened to all blow up in her face in spectacular fashion when the Government appealed the high Court decision and then the Supreme court made the ruling on the devolved Parliaments, lol. I must admit I did take great pleasure in seeing her pathetic attempts to thwart Brexit fall flat on her face.
I still don't understand your definition of 'blew up in her face in spectacular fashion'. I mean, yes by all means say you think she is vile, petulant, despicable if you want, they are all your (well considered, based on someone you've probably never met) opinion and subjective.
But she (and Dos Santos) took the government to court over who had the right to trigger A50. They won. The government appealed. The government lost the appeal. How in any way can you spin that to be 'blew up in her face in spectacular fashion'?
-Matt"I think Gina Miller was counting on the judges ruling the devolved Parliaments must be consulted by law, when that appeared not to be the case and the judges said the devolved parliaments don't get a say and only Westminster decides on Brexit then yes it blew up in her face. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"An assembly under a sovereign Goverment is region or a province, and is not a country. Scotland, Catalonia, Bavaria or Wallonia can call themselves what they like, their people can use whatever name they like but they will not get around the legal definition. I notice you left out N.Ireland as they are sovereign and the Uk need consent from them Thats the way to respect other countries is to call them non countries Scotland is not a region we are not a colony we are not north Britain Scotland is country I was expressing facts not an opinion. Any Scots wanting Independence need to be clear on their facts, because the other side will certainly make any slip up known. I've had to put people right on the legality of a referendum, the timing of any referendum, the legality of Scottish currency......all things that are basic facts. Rhetoric will not win an argument alone, it needs to be backed up with facts, otherwise you will end up just looking foolish." Once a referendum has been granted and the Yes campaign has started and a white paper is given to the Scottish people then people can start to ask what currency an independent Scotland will use | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"can i just say centaur that i am finding it highly amusing that you are bringing up the supreme court and defending it's decision with gusto.... when you were slaughtering Gina Miller and Deir Tozetti Dos Santos for taking the case to the high court in the first place... you have set off the irony alarms all around my house..... go on.... say it.... you know you want to... "Thank.........you.......... Gina!!!!"
I think it's more than a little ironic that Centaur now believes the data about how SNP voters voted, I do wonder however if he accepts the data about the educational qualification or socio-economic groupings about Leave and Remain voters?
Does it really matter if someone has been to uni, or has a degree or not? You really are showing just how snobbish you are now. We live in a democracy, and thankfully democratic values are still a key British value. One person, one vote, the level of their education has fuck all to do with it.
Actually yes it does matter. Not specifically university or not, but education level does matter in this case. The general British public was asked to vote on a very complex topic. What their level of understanding and ability to understand that topic is actually quite important. It is not being snobbish. It just is a fact that if you want someone to vote on something it is important they can understand what they are voting on. The referendum was a massively complex topic that was boiled down to two words 'leave' or 'remain'. The government should have taken the outcome of their advisory referendum and then investigated in further detail what the issues were and what was affecting the voters and then worked from there.
-Matt"Lolololol, what a crock. Every person in this country gets a vote, the level of their education is irrelevant. You should read back what you just posted and see how snobbish and stuck up your own arse you really do sound. What education level do you think someone should attain before they are eligible to vote then? Oh and another Lolololol. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"An assembly under a sovereign Goverment is region or a province, and is not a country. Scotland, Catalonia, Bavaria or Wallonia can call themselves what they like, their people can use whatever name they like but they will not get around the legal definition. I notice you left out N.Ireland as they are sovereign and the Uk need consent from them Thats the way to respect other countries is to call them non countries Scotland is not a region we are not a colony we are not north Britain Scotland is country I was expressing facts not an opinion. Any Scots wanting Independence need to be clear on their facts, because the other side will certainly make any slip up known. I've had to put people right on the legality of a referendum, the timing of any referendum, the legality of Scottish currency......all things that are basic facts. Rhetoric will not win an argument alone, it needs to be backed up with facts, otherwise you will end up just looking foolish. Once a referendum has been granted and the Yes campaign has started and a white paper is given to the Scottish people then people can start to ask what currency an independent Scotland will use " This was in response to an ardent SNP supporter who was adamant that Scottish Banknotes were legal tender. They are not, and never have been | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My argument all along was that it was far too complex an issue to leave to the general public, whether that be to leave or remain. In the end, it was reduced to rhetoric, rather than an ability to analyse the complex issues." I have some sympathy with that viewpoint. The conservatives had an EU referendum in their GE manifesto, and as they were voted in, then had to comply. I believe then, and still do today, that they called a referendum believing that Remain would win easily. A better route would to have had a referendum, say in 2017 on whether there should be an advisory referendum in 2018. That way, public opinion could have been gauged mid-term first. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"An assembly under a sovereign Goverment is region or a province, and is not a country. Scotland, Catalonia, Bavaria or Wallonia can call themselves what they like, their people can use whatever name they like but they will not get around the legal definition. I notice you left out N.Ireland as they are sovereign and the Uk need consent from them Thats the way to respect other countries is to call them non countries Scotland is not a region we are not a colony we are not north Britain Scotland is country I was expressing facts not an opinion. Any Scots wanting Independence need to be clear on their facts, because the other side will certainly make any slip up known. I've had to put people right on the legality of a referendum, the timing of any referendum, the legality of Scottish currency......all things that are basic facts. Rhetoric will not win an argument alone, it needs to be backed up with facts, otherwise you will end up just looking foolish. Once a referendum has been granted and the Yes campaign has started and a white paper is given to the Scottish people then people can start to ask what currency an independent Scotland will use This was in response to an ardent SNP supporter who was adamant that Scottish Banknotes were legal tender. They are not, and never have been" Yeah some United Kingdom eh ? Its that bad when you go to London with Scottish banknotes they wont take it and look at it funny yet come up to Scotland and no one gives a shit about being handed English banknotes its money at the end of the day its crazy lol. If i get given a England bank note i dont go refusing it as its money you can spent and its probably same in England with Scottish notes its companies like Mc'D's how have refused it its crazy Also Mr Darling fucked up big time in 2014 went he said Scotland can use the pound its not tied to one country only | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My argument all along was that it was far too complex an issue to leave to the general public, whether that be to leave or remain. In the end, it was reduced to rhetoric, rather than an ability to analyse the complex issues. I have some sympathy with that viewpoint. The conservatives had an EU referendum in their GE manifesto, and as they were voted in, then had to comply. I believe then, and still do today, that they called a referendum believing that Remain would win easily. A better route would to have had a referendum, say in 2017 on whether there should be an advisory referendum in 2018. That way, public opinion could have been gauged mid-term first." Can you just imagine the big fuck up if these Tory fraud claims come out as true though and lose their majority. I will i think the Tories thought it would be a remain vote and that was why they rushed it in 2016 instead of giving people plenty of time to weigh up everything. Also the Tory manifesto in 2015 that btw May does not stand on as that was under Cameron stated they would seek to keep the single market broken promise. Never ever trust a Tory can everyone remember Cameron going on live tv and saying no child tax credit cuts and they win the election or may be found out to have cheated to win were planning on child tax credit cuts this is why you dont trust these right wing Tories they are all for themselves and dont give a shit about the people in the UK | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The chair of the constitutional committee in Brussels says Scotland's vote won't be ignored in Brexit negotiations The EU care about Scotland and N.Ireland and Gibraltar more than the UK government does. " You might be right or maybe the EU are just using you to sow discord and will drop you as soon as they have won/lost... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"can i just say centaur that i am finding it highly amusing that you are bringing up the supreme court and defending it's decision with gusto.... when you were slaughtering Gina Miller and Deir Tozetti Dos Santos for taking the case to the high court in the first place... you have set off the irony alarms all around my house..... go on.... say it.... you know you want to... "Thank.........you.......... Gina!!!!"
I think it's more than a little ironic that Centaur now believes the data about how SNP voters voted, I do wonder however if he accepts the data about the educational qualification or socio-economic groupings about Leave and Remain voters?
Does it really matter if someone has been to uni, or has a degree or not? You really are showing just how snobbish you are now. We live in a democracy, and thankfully democratic values are still a key British value. One person, one vote, the level of their education has fuck all to do with it.
Actually yes it does matter. Not specifically university or not, but education level does matter in this case. The general British public was asked to vote on a very complex topic. What their level of understanding and ability to understand that topic is actually quite important. It is not being snobbish. It just is a fact that if you want someone to vote on something it is important they can understand what they are voting on. The referendum was a massively complex topic that was boiled down to two words 'leave' or 'remain'. The government should have taken the outcome of their advisory referendum and then investigated in further detail what the issues were and what was affecting the voters and then worked from there.
-Matt
Lolololol, what a crock. Every person in this country gets a vote, the level of their education is irrelevant. You should read back what you just posted and see how snobbish and stuck up your own arse you really do sound. What education level do you think someone should attain before they are eligible to vote then? Oh and another Lolololol. " agreed
That was one of the biggest load of bollox I've ever read on here. And that's saying something  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Scotland is NOT a country, therefore the EU cannot recognise it. It would be like the EU favouring Bavaria or Catalonia." Well done you have just won the "Facepalm" post of the month | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Scotland is NOT a country, therefore the EU cannot recognise it. It would be like the EU favouring Bavaria or Catalonia. Well done you have just won the "Facepalm" post of the month "It might be better directing that remark to the Scots on here, that fervently believe that Scotland is a legally recognised UN and EU country.  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"can i just say centaur that i am finding it highly amusing that you are bringing up the supreme court and defending it's decision with gusto.... when you were slaughtering Gina Miller and Deir Tozetti Dos Santos for taking the case to the high court in the first place... you have set off the irony alarms all around my house..... go on.... say it.... you know you want to... "Thank.........you.......... Gina!!!!"
There is nothing ironic about it _abio, I still think Gina Miller is a vile, petulant, despicable woman whose real motivation for the court case was to attempt to throw a spanner in the works and ultimately delay or derail Brexit. It just so happened to all blow up in her face in spectacular fashion when the Government appealed the high Court decision and then the Supreme court made the ruling on the devolved Parliaments, lol. I must admit I did take great pleasure in seeing her pathetic attempts to thwart Brexit fall flat on her face.
I still don't understand your definition of 'blew up in her face in spectacular fashion'. I mean, yes by all means say you think she is vile, petulant, despicable if you want, they are all your (well considered, based on someone you've probably never met) opinion and subjective.
But she (and Dos Santos) took the government to court over who had the right to trigger A50. They won. The government appealed. The government lost the appeal. How in any way can you spin that to be 'blew up in her face in spectacular fashion'?
-Matt
I think Gina Miller was counting on the judges ruling the devolved Parliaments must be consulted by law, when that appeared not to be the case and the judges said the devolved parliaments don't get a say and only Westminster decides on Brexit then yes it blew up in her face. "So was Dos Santos while voting to leave also wanted Brexit to fail through taking the government to court ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
""If, however, we leave the European Union without an agreement the default position is that we would have to trade on World Trade Organisation terms. In security terms a failure to reach agreement would mean our cooperation in the fight against crime and terrorism would be weakened." The letter had the right tone I thought, until that fucking stupid paragraph. " That was the part I was referring to further up this thread. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"can i just say centaur that i am finding it highly amusing that you are bringing up the supreme court and defending it's decision with gusto.... when you were slaughtering Gina Miller and Deir Tozetti Dos Santos for taking the case to the high court in the first place... you have set off the irony alarms all around my house..... go on.... say it.... you know you want to... "Thank.........you.......... Gina!!!!"
I think it's more than a little ironic that Centaur now believes the data about how SNP voters voted, I do wonder however if he accepts the data about the educational qualification or socio-economic groupings about Leave and Remain voters?
Does it really matter if someone has been to uni, or has a degree or not? You really are showing just how snobbish you are now. We live in a democracy, and thankfully democratic values are still a key British value. One person, one vote, the level of their education has fuck all to do with it.
Actually yes it does matter. Not specifically university or not, but education level does matter in this case. The general British public was asked to vote on a very complex topic. What their level of understanding and ability to understand that topic is actually quite important. It is not being snobbish. It just is a fact that if you want someone to vote on something it is important they can understand what they are voting on. The referendum was a massively complex topic that was boiled down to two words 'leave' or 'remain'. The government should have taken the outcome of their advisory referendum and then investigated in further detail what the issues were and what was affecting the voters and then worked from there.
-Matt
Lolololol, what a crock. Every person in this country gets a vote, the level of their education is irrelevant. You should read back what you just posted and see how snobbish and stuck up your own arse you really do sound. What education level do you think someone should attain before they are eligible to vote then? Oh and another Lolololol. "No, go back and read yourself. Tell me which part I state that people should be disallowed to vote? No? You can't find it, because I didn't say it. Of course everyone should get a vote irrespective of education, race, religion, wealth, etc. What I said was that I disagree with you that the level of education is an irrelevant aspect to democracy. I believe that in order to function correctly people should have some understanding of what they are voting on. This is why we have a representational democracy. We elect and pay representatives to understand and work out the complex issues involved in aspects of our government. But hey... "The people have spoken"... -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"can i just say centaur that i am finding it highly amusing that you are bringing up the supreme court and defending it's decision with gusto.... when you were slaughtering Gina Miller and Deir Tozetti Dos Santos for taking the case to the high court in the first place... you have set off the irony alarms all around my house..... go on.... say it.... you know you want to... "Thank.........you.......... Gina!!!!"
I think it's more than a little ironic that Centaur now believes the data about how SNP voters voted, I do wonder however if he accepts the data about the educational qualification or socio-economic groupings about Leave and Remain voters?
Does it really matter if someone has been to uni, or has a degree or not? You really are showing just how snobbish you are now. We live in a democracy, and thankfully democratic values are still a key British value. One person, one vote, the level of their education has fuck all to do with it.
Actually yes it does matter. Not specifically university or not, but education level does matter in this case. The general British public was asked to vote on a very complex topic. What their level of understanding and ability to understand that topic is actually quite important. It is not being snobbish. It just is a fact that if you want someone to vote on something it is important they can understand what they are voting on. The referendum was a massively complex topic that was boiled down to two words 'leave' or 'remain'. The government should have taken the outcome of their advisory referendum and then investigated in further detail what the issues were and what was affecting the voters and then worked from there.
-Matt
Lolololol, what a crock. Every person in this country gets a vote, the level of their education is irrelevant. You should read back what you just posted and see how snobbish and stuck up your own arse you really do sound. What education level do you think someone should attain before they are eligible to vote then? Oh and another Lolololol.
agreed
That was one of the biggest load of bollox I've ever read on here. And that's saying something "You agree? So you can't read either then? I guess it would be condescending or snobbish for me to use this as a point to prove what I said about education having an impact on democracy? -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"can i just say centaur that i am finding it highly amusing that you are bringing up the supreme court and defending it's decision with gusto.... when you were slaughtering Gina Miller and Deir Tozetti Dos Santos for taking the case to the high court in the first place... you have set off the irony alarms all around my house..... go on.... say it.... you know you want to... "Thank.........you.......... Gina!!!!"
I think it's more than a little ironic that Centaur now believes the data about how SNP voters voted, I do wonder however if he accepts the data about the educational qualification or socio-economic groupings about Leave and Remain voters?
Does it really matter if someone has been to uni, or has a degree or not? You really are showing just how snobbish you are now. We live in a democracy, and thankfully democratic values are still a key British value. One person, one vote, the level of their education has fuck all to do with it.
Actually yes it does matter. Not specifically university or not, but education level does matter in this case. The general British public was asked to vote on a very complex topic. What their level of understanding and ability to understand that topic is actually quite important. It is not being snobbish. It just is a fact that if you want someone to vote on something it is important they can understand what they are voting on. The referendum was a massively complex topic that was boiled down to two words 'leave' or 'remain'. The government should have taken the outcome of their advisory referendum and then investigated in further detail what the issues were and what was affecting the voters and then worked from there.
-Matt
Lolololol, what a crock. Every person in this country gets a vote, the level of their education is irrelevant. You should read back what you just posted and see how snobbish and stuck up your own arse you really do sound. What education level do you think someone should attain before they are eligible to vote then? Oh and another Lolololol.
agreed
That was one of the biggest load of bollox I've ever read on here. And that's saying something "I agree that everyone should have a vote, when a vote is called. I would suggest that on such complex issues that is not the last say on what happens. I also find it interesting, the point the poster slipped in there, about the distribution of graduates and the distribution of remain and leave voters. There is a very strong correlation. It doesn't necessarily mean one group understood more/better the issue. But it does show a difference between the two groups. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" 18 months time Scotland will be voting to leave the UK, the sooner this happens the better." Er, no, they wont. The Scottish parliament has voted to send a Section 30 request to Westminster, which in essence is requesting permission to hold a further referendum on independence. Holyrood can not hold such a referendum without the consent of the UK government. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" 18 months time Scotland will be voting to leave the UK, the sooner this happens the better. Er, no, they wont. The Scottish parliament has voted to send a Section 30 request to Westminster, which in essence is requesting permission to hold a further referendum on independence. Holyrood can not hold such a referendum without the consent of the UK government." Where in any written law does it say this ? I cant find it anywhere | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"can i just say centaur that i am finding it highly amusing that you are bringing up the supreme court and defending it's decision with gusto.... when you were slaughtering Gina Miller and Deir Tozetti Dos Santos for taking the case to the high court in the first place... you have set off the irony alarms all around my house..... go on.... say it.... you know you want to... "Thank.........you.......... Gina!!!!"
I think it's more than a little ironic that Centaur now believes the data about how SNP voters voted, I do wonder however if he accepts the data about the educational qualification or socio-economic groupings about Leave and Remain voters?
Does it really matter if someone has been to uni, or has a degree or not? You really are showing just how snobbish you are now. We live in a democracy, and thankfully democratic values are still a key British value. One person, one vote, the level of their education has fuck all to do with it.
Actually yes it does matter. Not specifically university or not, but education level does matter in this case. The general British public was asked to vote on a very complex topic. What their level of understanding and ability to understand that topic is actually quite important. It is not being snobbish. It just is a fact that if you want someone to vote on something it is important they can understand what they are voting on. The referendum was a massively complex topic that was boiled down to two words 'leave' or 'remain'. The government should have taken the outcome of their advisory referendum and then investigated in further detail what the issues were and what was affecting the voters and then worked from there.
-Matt
Lolololol, what a crock. Every person in this country gets a vote, the level of their education is irrelevant. You should read back what you just posted and see how snobbish and stuck up your own arse you really do sound. What education level do you think someone should attain before they are eligible to vote then? Oh and another Lolololol.
agreed
That was one of the biggest load of bollox I've ever read on here. And that's saying something
I agree that everyone should have a vote, when a vote is called. I would suggest that on such complex issues that is not the last say on what happens.
I also find it interesting, the point the poster slipped in there, about the distribution of graduates and the distribution of remain and leave voters.
There is a very strong correlation. It doesn't necessarily mean one group understood more/better the issue. But it does show a difference between the two groups."Indeed, graduates in the whole are more likely to have had to evaluate complex positions and weigh and analyse different source that the average population. They are more likely to have had some teaching or experience in critical thinking. They are also more likely to have been directly involved in cross-EU projects or have seen the benefits of EU funding in projects. -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Er, no, they wont. The Scottish parliament has voted to send a Section 30 request to Westminster, which in essence is requesting permission to hold a further referendum on independence" Am I the only one reminded of an abusive relationship here? 30 months ago the 'better off together' campaign, which was the English and their Scots supporters were telling the Scottish that if they wanted to remain in the EU they had to remain in the UK. So the Scots voted to remain in the UK. Now those self same English are telling the Scots that they are leaving the EU because the English have decided to leave and the Scots have no right to change their mind until the English have removed them from the EU. I think we are witnessing the beginning of the splintering of the UK and the English establishment will make this very bitter for all. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"can i just say centaur that i am finding it highly amusing that you are bringing up the supreme court and defending it's decision with gusto.... when you were slaughtering Gina Miller and Deir Tozetti Dos Santos for taking the case to the high court in the first place... you have set off the irony alarms all around my house..... go on.... say it.... you know you want to... "Thank.........you.......... Gina!!!!"
I think it's more than a little ironic that Centaur now believes the data about how SNP voters voted, I do wonder however if he accepts the data about the educational qualification or socio-economic groupings about Leave and Remain voters?
Does it really matter if someone has been to uni, or has a degree or not? You really are showing just how snobbish you are now. We live in a democracy, and thankfully democratic values are still a key British value. One person, one vote, the level of their education has fuck all to do with it.
Actually yes it does matter. Not specifically university or not, but education level does matter in this case. The general British public was asked to vote on a very complex topic. What their level of understanding and ability to understand that topic is actually quite important. It is not being snobbish. It just is a fact that if you want someone to vote on something it is important they can understand what they are voting on. The referendum was a massively complex topic that was boiled down to two words 'leave' or 'remain'. The government should have taken the outcome of their advisory referendum and then investigated in further detail what the issues were and what was affecting the voters and then worked from there.
-Matt
Lolololol, what a crock. Every person in this country gets a vote, the level of their education is irrelevant. You should read back what you just posted and see how snobbish and stuck up your own arse you really do sound. What education level do you think someone should attain before they are eligible to vote then? Oh and another Lolololol.
agreed
That was one of the biggest load of bollox I've ever read on here. And that's saying something
I agree that everyone should have a vote, when a vote is called. I would suggest that on such complex issues that is not the last say on what happens.
I also find it interesting, the point the poster slipped in there, about the distribution of graduates and the distribution of remain and leave voters.
There is a very strong correlation. It doesn't necessarily mean one group understood more/better the issue. But it does show a difference between the two groups.
Indeed, graduates in the whole are more likely to have had to evaluate complex positions and weigh and analyse different source that the average population. They are more likely to have had some teaching or experience in critical thinking. They are also more likely to have been directly involved in cross-EU projects or have seen the benefits of EU funding in projects.
-Matt" unbelievable | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All makes perfect sense to me. I fall to see what your problem with it is? I didn't think anyone's suggested that certain sections of society be precluded from voting in elections have they?" No. But what makes one persons thinking more valid than anothers? If one 'highly educated' person comes to the conclusion through processing information, data, facts, or whatever and decides it is better to remain and another 'highly educated' person digests the same information and decides it is better to leave, who is right? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All makes perfect sense to me. I fall to see what your problem with it is? I didn't think anyone's suggested that certain sections of society be precluded from voting in elections have they? No. But what makes one persons thinking more valid than anothers? If one 'highly educated' person comes to the conclusion through processing information, data, facts, or whatever and decides it is better to remain and another 'highly educated' person digests the same information and decides it is better to leave, who is right?" Well obviously they can't both be. So only time will tell... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All makes perfect sense to me. I fall to see what your problem with it is? I didn't think anyone's suggested that certain sections of society be precluded from voting in elections have they? No. But what makes one persons thinking more valid than anothers? If one 'highly educated' person comes to the conclusion through processing information, data, facts, or whatever and decides it is better to remain and another 'highly educated' person digests the same information and decides it is better to leave, who is right?" Neither/both/either. Take your pick. It doesn't matter. All I have said above is that education is a factor in democracy and that if you are asking people to make decisions on complex topics it works best if they understand them. I really don't see why some people on here have a problem with that? -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All makes perfect sense to me. I fall to see what your problem with it is? I didn't think anyone's suggested that certain sections of society be precluded from voting in elections have they? No. But what makes one persons thinking more valid than anothers? If one 'highly educated' person comes to the conclusion through processing information, data, facts, or whatever and decides it is better to remain and another 'highly educated' person digests the same information and decides it is better to leave, who is right?" They both are, that's not the issue; the issue is when someone doesn't even attempt to digest the information and just swallows down the bullshit that gets fed to them by whichever faction they prefer. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"They both are, that's not the issue; the issue is when someone doesn't even attempt to digest the information and just swallows down the bullshit that gets fed to them by whichever faction they prefer." I think the suggestion is that the better educated one is the more likely they are to critically examine arguments advanced on any subject. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All makes perfect sense to me. I fall to see what your problem with it is? I didn't think anyone's suggested that certain sections of society be precluded from voting in elections have they? No. But what makes one persons thinking more valid than anothers? If one 'highly educated' person comes to the conclusion through processing information, data, facts, or whatever and decides it is better to remain and another 'highly educated' person digests the same information and decides it is better to leave, who is right? Neither/both/either. Take your pick. It doesn't matter. All I have said above is that education is a factor in democracy and that if you are asking people to make decisions on complex topics it works best if they understand them. I really don't see why some people on here have a problem with that? -Matt" Education is not a factor in democracy, how you see things or interpret them is, otherwise there wouldn't be a left right or centre | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"They both are, that's not the issue; the issue is when someone doesn't even attempt to digest the information and just swallows down the bullshit that gets fed to them by whichever faction they prefer. I think the suggestion is that the better educated one is the more likely they are to critically examine arguments advanced on any subject. " Well in my opinion if you support Labour you are obviously thick . Is that true? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All makes perfect sense to me. I fall to see what your problem with it is? I didn't think anyone's suggested that certain sections of society be precluded from voting in elections have they? No. But what makes one persons thinking more valid than anothers? If one 'highly educated' person comes to the conclusion through processing information, data, facts, or whatever and decides it is better to remain and another 'highly educated' person digests the same information and decides it is better to leave, who is right? Neither/both/either. Take your pick. It doesn't matter. All I have said above is that education is a factor in democracy and that if you are asking people to make decisions on complex topics it works best if they understand them. I really don't see why some people on here have a problem with that? -Matt Education is not a factor in democracy, how you see things or interpret them is, otherwise there wouldn't be a left right or centre" Interesting thought. Can you expand upon that? Why do you think there wouldn't be a left, right or centre? Do you think that it would all converge on a single point, or that it would diverge in so many ways you couldn't classify opinions/parties/etc on a simple one dimensional axis? -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"They both are, that's not the issue; the issue is when someone doesn't even attempt to digest the information and just swallows down the bullshit that gets fed to them by whichever faction they prefer. I think the suggestion is that the better educated one is the more likely they are to critically examine arguments advanced on any subject. Well in my opinion if you support Labour you are obviously thick . Is that true?"Labour are my second team, Wolves are my first! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"They both are, that's not the issue; the issue is when someone doesn't even attempt to digest the information and just swallows down the bullshit that gets fed to them by whichever faction they prefer. I think the suggestion is that the better educated one is the more likely they are to critically examine arguments advanced on any subject. Well in my opinion if you support Labour you are obviously thick . Is that true?"It is true that that is your opinion as you have just said it is your opinion. If you mean 'is it true' as in 'is it a fact'. Then no, it is still just your opinion. As you stated. -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All makes perfect sense to me. I fall to see what your problem with it is? I didn't think anyone's suggested that certain sections of society be precluded from voting in elections have they? No. But what makes one persons thinking more valid than anothers? If one 'highly educated' person comes to the conclusion through processing information, data, facts, or whatever and decides it is better to remain and another 'highly educated' person digests the same information and decides it is better to leave, who is right? Neither/both/either. Take your pick. It doesn't matter. All I have said above is that education is a factor in democracy and that if you are asking people to make decisions on complex topics it works best if they understand them. I really don't see why some people on here have a problem with that? -Matt Education is not a factor in democracy, how you see things or interpret them is, otherwise there wouldn't be a left right or centre Interesting thought. Can you expand upon that? Why do you think there wouldn't be a left, right or centre? Do you think that it would all converge on a single point, or that it would diverge in so many ways you couldn't classify opinions/parties/etc on a simple one dimensional axis? -Matt" What I'm trying to say is, if more highly educated people supported one party than the other does that mean that that party would better run a country? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All makes perfect sense to me. I fall to see what your problem with it is? I didn't think anyone's suggested that certain sections of society be precluded from voting in elections have they? No. But what makes one persons thinking more valid than anothers? If one 'highly educated' person comes to the conclusion through processing information, data, facts, or whatever and decides it is better to remain and another 'highly educated' person digests the same information and decides it is better to leave, who is right? Neither/both/either. Take your pick. It doesn't matter. All I have said above is that education is a factor in democracy and that if you are asking people to make decisions on complex topics it works best if they understand them. I really don't see why some people on here have a problem with that? -Matt Education is not a factor in democracy, how you see things or interpret them is, otherwise there wouldn't be a left right or centre Interesting thought. Can you expand upon that? Why do you think there wouldn't be a left, right or centre? Do you think that it would all converge on a single point, or that it would diverge in so many ways you couldn't classify opinions/parties/etc on a simple one dimensional axis? -Matt What I'm trying to say is, if more highly educated people supported one party than the other does that mean that that party would better run a country?" The vast majority of so called polling experts and economic experts have been way off the mark so far on Brexit. So much for their highly vaulted educational qualifications, from where I'm standing they look incredibly stupid. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"can i just say centaur that i am finding it highly amusing that you are bringing up the supreme court and defending it's decision with gusto.... when you were slaughtering Gina Miller and Deir Tozetti Dos Santos for taking the case to the high court in the first place... you have set off the irony alarms all around my house..... go on.... say it.... you know you want to... "Thank.........you.......... Gina!!!!"
I think it's more than a little ironic that Centaur now believes the data about how SNP voters voted, I do wonder however if he accepts the data about the educational qualification or socio-economic groupings about Leave and Remain voters?
Does it really matter if someone has been to uni, or has a degree or not? You really are showing just how snobbish you are now. We live in a democracy, and thankfully democratic values are still a key British value. One person, one vote, the level of their education has fuck all to do with it. "The Leave campaign do not believe in democratic values, or an independent judiciary or even that parliament ia sovereign! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All makes perfect sense to me. I fall to see what your problem with it is? I didn't think anyone's suggested that certain sections of society be precluded from voting in elections have they? No. But what makes one persons thinking more valid than anothers? If one 'highly educated' person comes to the conclusion through processing information, data, facts, or whatever and decides it is better to remain and another 'highly educated' person digests the same information and decides it is better to leave, who is right? Neither/both/either. Take your pick. It doesn't matter. All I have said above is that education is a factor in democracy and that if you are asking people to make decisions on complex topics it works best if they understand them. I really don't see why some people on here have a problem with that? -Matt Education is not a factor in democracy, how you see things or interpret them is, otherwise there wouldn't be a left right or centre Interesting thought. Can you expand upon that? Why do you think there wouldn't be a left, right or centre? Do you think that it would all converge on a single point, or that it would diverge in so many ways you couldn't classify opinions/parties/etc on a simple one dimensional axis? -Matt What I'm trying to say is, if more highly educated people supported one party than the other does that mean that that party would better run a country?" No, not necessarily so. To blunt you can be educated and still be a cunt. You could have a party supported by a lot of highly educated people who are selfish or maybe have little social conscience. Whilst that might be in their best interests it might not be in the interests of others in that society. -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All makes perfect sense to me. I fall to see what your problem with it is? I didn't think anyone's suggested that certain sections of society be precluded from voting in elections have they? No. But what makes one persons thinking more valid than anothers? If one 'highly educated' person comes to the conclusion through processing information, data, facts, or whatever and decides it is better to remain and another 'highly educated' person digests the same information and decides it is better to leave, who is right? Neither/both/either. Take your pick. It doesn't matter. All I have said above is that education is a factor in democracy and that if you are asking people to make decisions on complex topics it works best if they understand them. I really don't see why some people on here have a problem with that? -Matt Education is not a factor in democracy, how you see things or interpret them is, otherwise there wouldn't be a left right or centre Interesting thought. Can you expand upon that? Why do you think there wouldn't be a left, right or centre? Do you think that it would all converge on a single point, or that it would diverge in so many ways you couldn't classify opinions/parties/etc on a simple one dimensional axis? -Matt What I'm trying to say is, if more highly educated people supported one party than the other does that mean that that party would better run a country? The vast majority of so called polling experts and economic experts have been way off the mark so far on Brexit. So much for their highly vaulted educational qualifications, from where I'm standing they look incredibly stupid. " I went to a guest lecture at Loughborough University with Alan Turing's nephew last year and the University Department we were in demonstrated some new software they'd developed that called both the Referendum and Trump's election (this was some time before both actually happened). | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The vast majority of so called polling experts and economic experts have been way off the mark so far on Brexit. So much for their highly vaulted educational qualifications, from where I'm standing they look incredibly stupid. " Have they been so far off the mark? Are they all incredibly stupid? Or have the Treasury and BoE been incredibly good at supporting the £ and managing the speed at which wealth has flowed out of the UK over the last 10 months? And have the government sold our future out to 2 multinational motor manufacturers to build a facade of economic stability? Maybe your the one who is incredibly stupid, after all your the one of the ones who claims loss of 20% of our currencies value is good for us. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" The Leave campaign do not believe in democratic values, or an independent judiciary or even that parliament ia sovereign! " Do you mean the official Leave campaign team or people who voted leave? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's called EMOTIVE and tracks Twitter feeds based on a number of artificial intelligence reactions to various emotional reactions. It also correctly predicted the last General Election." I have done work with a company that did sentiment analysis from twitter feeds. It is quite an interesting area. In this case they were correlating sentiment on Twitter to TV adverts / programmes. But this is part of the issue. People say that the polls 'failed' and hence polling or predicting must be bad. But the issue is that the predictions can only work based on the data and models they have. And they are changing. Society is changing. The rules are changing. A parallel can be drawn with aviation security. All models used to be based on a hijacker wanting to live. Once it became that that was no longer a priority for a hijacker, the existing approaches to security were no longer valid. Were they bad or wrong to start with? No. They just needed to be updated to reflect new rules and inputs. Similar things happening with politics. It used to be a single lie could bury a politician. Now you have the likes of Trump telling so many porkies that no one can predict what people will think or vote. -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" No, not necessarily so. To be blunt you can be educated and still be a cunt. -Matt" It's called Faraging... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's called EMOTIVE and tracks Twitter feeds based on a number of artificial intelligence reactions to various emotional reactions. It also correctly predicted the last General Election. I have done work with a company that did sentiment analysis from twitter feeds. It is quite an interesting area. In this case they were correlating sentiment on Twitter to TV adverts / programmes. But this is part of the issue. People say that the polls 'failed' and hence polling or predicting must be bad. But the issue is that the predictions can only work based on the data and models they have. And they are changing. Society is changing. The rules are changing. A parallel can be drawn with aviation security. All models used to be based on a hijacker wanting to live. Once it became that that was no longer a priority for a hijacker, the existing approaches to security were no longer valid. Were they bad or wrong to start with? No. They just needed to be updated to reflect new rules and inputs. Similar things happening with politics. It used to be a single lie could bury a politician. Now you have the likes of Trump telling so many porkies that no one can predict what people will think or vote. -Matt" It's also fairly easy to manipulate (see the current season of Homeland for a fairly plausible example)...you build up the artificial intelligence profile then use that to manipulate the electorate, which then feeds back into the AF. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Seems merkel just put the boot into mays plans saying no talks on any trade deals until all leaving negotiations are finished ,where does this leave mays plans now " That has been the EU's position all along, I've been saying it for 9 months on here too. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Seems merkel just put the boot into mays plans saying no talks on any trade deals until all leaving negotiations are finished ,where does this leave mays plans now That has been the EU's position all along, I've been saying it for 9 months on here too. " Well you have been saying talks can't begin until after we left. Even thougj she doesn't actually make the decision, Merkel said "The negotiations must first clarify how we will disentangle our interlinked relationship... and only when this question is dealt with, can we, hopefully soon after, begin talking about our future relationship" Not quite the same thing as is being painted above. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"AI! Fucking phone and this shitty old fashioned forum and its lack of editing facilities!" It's cos of Brexit  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All makes perfect sense to me. I fall to see what your problem with it is? I didn't think anyone's suggested that certain sections of society be precluded from voting in elections have they? No. But what makes one persons thinking more valid than anothers? If one 'highly educated' person comes to the conclusion through processing information, data, facts, or whatever and decides it is better to remain and another 'highly educated' person digests the same information and decides it is better to leave, who is right? Neither/both/either. Take your pick. It doesn't matter. All I have said above is that education is a factor in democracy and that if you are asking people to make decisions on complex topics it works best if they understand them. I really don't see why some people on here have a problem with that? -Matt Education is not a factor in democracy, how you see things or interpret them is, otherwise there wouldn't be a left right or centre Interesting thought. Can you expand upon that? Why do you think there wouldn't be a left, right or centre? Do you think that it would all converge on a single point, or that it would diverge in so many ways you couldn't classify opinions/parties/etc on a simple one dimensional axis? -Matt What I'm trying to say is, if more highly educated people supported one party than the other does that mean that that party would better run a country? No, not necessarily so. To blunt you can be educated and still be a cunt. You could have a party supported by a lot of highly educated people who are selfish or maybe have little social conscience. Whilst that might be in their best interests it might not be in the interests of others in that society. -Matt" The same as in a referendum vote then | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" The Leave campaign do not believe in democratic values, or an independent judiciary or even that parliament ia sovereign! Do you mean the official Leave campaign team or people who voted leave?" the one who put a spurious "claim" at best on the side of a bus and drove it all around the country, the trotted out said "claim" at every oppotunity certainly didn't help..... anyway.... it was going so well today on both sides and i actually would have supported "teresa" on her tone and mood today right up until she threatened the EU on "security" issues.... just couldn't help herself... spectactular own goal and actually on that.... where do you think european criminals would likely head from anyway if there were no extradiction agreements in place? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"AI! Fucking phone and this shitty old fashioned forum and its lack of editing facilities! It's cos of Brexit "Or maybe it's because some people are too dumb to proof read what they've written before they hit the post button. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Seems merkel just put the boot into mays plans saying no talks on any trade deals until all leaving negotiations are finished ,where does this leave mays plans now That has been the EU's position all along, I've been saying it for 9 months on here too. Well you have been saying talks can't begin until after we left. Even thougj she doesn't actually make the decision, Merkel said "The negotiations must first clarify how we will disentangle our interlinked relationship... and only when this question is dealt with, can we, hopefully soon after, begin talking about our future relationship" Not quite the same thing as is being painted above." that is the same thing unless you want to be really pedantic... the UK have always said they want to do both at the same time.... the EU have always said sort our the leaving first, then do the trade deals.... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Tories have fucked the UK today No one has even thought about the fact is if there is no border between the Rep.of Ireland and N.Ireland then anyone from outside of the UK can go to the Rep.of Ireland and go through to N.Ireland jump on a ferry and there in the UK But try and put a border up well they will fuck up the Good Friday agreement and no one wants that shit to be broke " Of course it has been thought about. I suspect there will be some sort of soft border between the two parts and maybe checks on trucks to ensure goods arent sent either way without any payments that are due being avoided, I am sure there will be no need for passport checks, there any arent now yet try getting into france (or anywhere else) without one, you still need photo ID to travel from anywhere else in the UK to northern Ireland, this will just change to a passport for those from the south, no reason for it to be a problem apart from those who wish it to be | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All makes perfect sense to me. I fall to see what your problem with it is? I didn't think anyone's suggested that certain sections of society be precluded from voting in elections have they? No. But what makes one persons thinking more valid than anothers? If one 'highly educated' person comes to the conclusion through processing information, data, facts, or whatever and decides it is better to remain and another 'highly educated' person digests the same information and decides it is better to leave, who is right? Neither/both/either. Take your pick. It doesn't matter. All I have said above is that education is a factor in democracy and that if you are asking people to make decisions on complex topics it works best if they understand them. I really don't see why some people on here have a problem with that? -Matt Education is not a factor in democracy, how you see things or interpret them is, otherwise there wouldn't be a left right or centre Interesting thought. Can you expand upon that? Why do you think there wouldn't be a left, right or centre? Do you think that it would all converge on a single point, or that it would diverge in so many ways you couldn't classify opinions/parties/etc on a simple one dimensional axis? -Matt What I'm trying to say is, if more highly educated people supported one party than the other does that mean that that party would better run a country? No, not necessarily so. To blunt you can be educated and still be a cunt. You could have a party supported by a lot of highly educated people who are selfish or maybe have little social conscience. Whilst that might be in their best interests it might not be in the interests of others in that society. -Matt The same as in a referendum vote then" What, that in the referendum some intelligent people voted to leave for their own self interest against the interests of society? Perhaps. But I thought this latest question was about parties running a country, not about cross-party politics such as the referendum? -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am sure there will be no need for passport checks, there any arent now yet try getting into france (or anywhere else) without one, you still need photo ID to travel from anywhere else in the UK to northern Ireland, this will just change to a passport for those from the south, no reason for it to be a problem apart from those who wish it to be" I would not be so confident, this government are quite capable of reigniting the troubles in NI by imposing a hard border as a way of punishing the EU for not giving them everything they want for there business masters. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The vast majority of so called polling experts and economic experts have been way off the mark so far on Brexit. So much for their highly vaulted educational qualifications, from where I'm standing they look incredibly stupid. Have they been so far off the mark? Are they all incredibly stupid? Or have the Treasury and BoE been incredibly good at supporting the £ and managing the speed at which wealth has flowed out of the UK over the last 10 months? And have the government sold our future out to 2 multinational motor manufacturers to build a facade of economic stability? Maybe your the one who is incredibly stupid, after all your the one of the ones who claims loss of 20% of our currencies value is good for us." Well it was the highly educated former governor of the bank of England Mervyn King who said the drop in the value of the pound was a welcome change. It has boosted our exports, the FTSE 100 and our tourism industry. Plus he revealed that all of those highly educated folk working at the bank of England had been trying to devalue the pound for the last 3 years. Plus as far as predictions go wasn't it you willwill who said on here in December/January after the Supreme court ruling that Teresa May and the government would NEVER keep to the timetable of triggering article 50 before the end of March 2017. Tell us what is today's date and what happened today?
Didn't you tell people to call you a space cadet if you turned out to be wrong.
When it comes to looking stupid you get a gold star. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am sure there will be no need for passport checks, there any arent now yet try getting into france (or anywhere else) without one, you still need photo ID to travel from anywhere else in the UK to northern Ireland, this will just change to a passport for those from the south, no reason for it to be a problem apart from those who wish it to be I would not be so confident, this government are quite capable of reigniting the troubles in NI by imposing a hard border as a way of punishing the EU for not giving them everything they want for there business masters." I am sure keeping the peace process alive and well is one of if not the top priority of the UK goverment and should be for the EU as well, | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am sure there will be no need for passport checks, there any arent now yet try getting into france (or anywhere else) without one, you still need photo ID to travel from anywhere else in the UK to northern Ireland, this will just change to a passport for those from the south, no reason for it to be a problem apart from those who wish it to be I would not be so confident, this government are quite capable of reigniting the troubles in NI by imposing a hard border as a way of punishing the EU for not giving them everything they want for there business masters. I am sure keeping the peace process alive and well is one of if not the top priority of the UK goverment and should be for the EU as well, " It is for Teresa May and the government because they have already said so. It seems it is also for the EU because Guy Verhofstadt MEP said so in a televised statement today. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well it was the highly educated former governor of the bank of England Mervyn King who said the drop in the value of the pound was a welcome change. It has boosted our exports, the FTSE 100 and our tourism industry. Plus he revealed that all of those highly educated folk working at the bank of England had been trying to devalue the pound for the last 3 years. Plus as far as predictions go wasn't it you willwill who said on here in December/January after the Supreme court ruling that Teresa May and the government would NEVER keep to the timetable of triggering article 50 before the end of March 2017. Tell us what is today's date and what happened today?
Didn't you tell people to call you a space cadet if you turned out to be wrong.
When it comes to looking stupid you get a gold star. "And of course no one would lie in order to avert another financial collapse. Now you may be of the opinion I deserve a gold star for looking stupid, but I would suggest you qualify for one on the grounds of gullibility. After all your the one quoting a banker to prove a point. Question: How can you tell if a banker is lying? Answer: They are talking!
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You know you don't really believe that both of there names are on all of the court documents.... both of them were at the opening hearings... both of them got death threats....... Dos Santos decided to take a much lower profile because of them.... I know you are really, really going to hate what i am about the say.... but you should actually be applauding Miller for standing up to the threats and in effect becomimg the defacto face of the case.... his name has always been on all of the case notes... and still are... miller and dos santos vs the crown I know that but don't pretend that Miller was concerned with democracy" Why did Santos who backed Leave join up with her in the court action against the crown then ? It's always the Remainer of the court action getting slagged off by leavers but you all conviently ignore the fact that a Leaver joined up with Miller for the same case. It's obvious why but i doubt any of you can actually bring yourselves to say it. Leavers only mention Gina because she voted remain. You view was if Theresa May had a dictatorship style power to act alone in triggering A50 then nothing stood in your Brexit way. If parliament had a vote which was the lawful way to do things then there was always a possibility Brexit could be delayed or even halted leaving many Leavers shitting themselves at that thought. Once the court case was won by Gina & Santos, Santos was still totally ignored by the ardent Leavers so you could twist the facts of the case into Gina was trying to derail Brexit and now A50 is still being triggered it's blown up in her face..... i wonder why that is. Could it be that if the Leavers acknowledged Santos in all of this, as he voted leave too then that blows the Gina derailing A50 out of the water and then you'd have to accept the fact that it wasn't anything to do with trying to sabotage Brexit at all but to make the actual triggering of A50 legal. I doubt many Leavers would admit any of this and still swear blind it was all Gina and not Santos. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Well you have been saying talks can't begin until after we left. Even thougj she doesn't actually make the decision, Merkel said "The negotiations must first clarify how we will disentangle our interlinked relationship... and only when this question is dealt with, can we, hopefully soon after, begin talking about our future relationship" Not quite the same thing as is being painted above. that is the same thing unless you want to be really pedantic... the UK have always said they want to do both at the same time.... the EU have always said sort our the leaving first, then do the trade deals...." It's not pedantic Fabio, there's big difference. It's the difference in it being started to be discussed early on inside the two years, or it not even beginning until after we've fully left. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well it was the highly educated former governor of the bank of England Mervyn King who said the drop in the value of the pound was a welcome change. It has boosted our exports, the FTSE 100 and our tourism industry. Plus he revealed that all of those highly educated folk working at the bank of England had been trying to devalue the pound for the last 3 years. Plus as far as predictions go wasn't it you willwill who said on here in December/January after the Supreme court ruling that Teresa May and the government would NEVER keep to the timetable of triggering article 50 before the end of March 2017. Tell us what is today's date and what happened today?
Didn't you tell people to call you a space cadet if you turned out to be wrong.
When it comes to looking stupid you get a gold star.
And of course no one would lie in order to avert another financial collapse.
Now you may be of the opinion I deserve a gold star for looking stupid, but I would suggest you qualify for one on the grounds of gullibility. After all your the one quoting a banker to prove a point.
Question:
How can you tell if a banker is lying?
Answer:
They are talking!
"At least all i did was quote a banker, Remainers sided with the vast majority of bankers in the EU referendum because all the big banks would have preferred we remain in the EU, lol. And if you think people who are highly educated should be listened to more aren't you contradicting yourself with what you say. Contradicting yourself because the highly educated opinions are more relevant, then you say don't trust bankers because they lie, (even though bankers are highly educated) lololol. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Well it was the highly educated former governor of the bank of England Mervyn King who said the drop in the value of the pound was a welcome change. It has boosted our exports, the FTSE 100 and our tourism industry. Plus he revealed that all of those highly educated folk working at the bank of England had been trying to devalue the pound for the last 3 years. " I just had to cut out this bit.... because there are a few inaccuracies i need to correct the FTSE 100 in full of multinational who profits look inflated because of the devaluation of the pound... it doesn't actually mean they made anymore money......
and since you like to see devalueation as a good thing in your "everything with rose tinted glasses" world... lets look at those who are now losing...
you say the pound drop is good for exporters and i am not going to lie and say it isn't..... but that also forget one really teeny weeny small detail.....
the united kingdom is a net importer of goods... and a biggie at that
and all them "goods" went up in price.... from foodstuffs to electronics to cars to tv's to washing machines to computers to mobile phones, ect ect ect....
and all those commodities that for example were prices in for example us dollar we up.... oh, not important, stuff like gas, and oil, which lead to heating bills going up, petrol going up, and stuff like sugar, and coffee,
and thats before we even talk about holiday i know some of the people here like to take abroad (unless they are now all going to skegness instead!!!) and the pound being worth less in their pockets...
but hey.... never mind them!!!!! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well it was the highly educated former governor of the bank of England Mervyn King who said the drop in the value of the pound was a welcome change. It has boosted our exports, the FTSE 100 and our tourism industry. Plus he revealed that all of those highly educated folk working at the bank of England had been trying to devalue the pound for the last 3 years. Plus as far as predictions go wasn't it you willwill who said on here in December/January after the Supreme court ruling that Teresa May and the government would NEVER keep to the timetable of triggering article 50 before the end of March 2017. Tell us what is today's date and what happened today?
Didn't you tell people to call you a space cadet if you turned out to be wrong.
When it comes to looking stupid you get a gold star.
And of course no one would lie in order to avert another financial collapse.
Now you may be of the opinion I deserve a gold star for looking stupid, but I would suggest you qualify for one on the grounds of gullibility. After all your the one quoting a banker to prove a point.
Question:
How can you tell if a banker is lying?
Answer:
They are talking!
At least all i did was quote a banker, Remainers sided with the vast majority of bankers in the EU referendum because all the big banks would have preferred we remain in the EU, lol. And if you think people who are highly educated should be listened to more aren't you contradicting yourself with what you say. Contradicting yourself because the highly educated opinions are more relevant, then you say don't trust bankers because they lie, (even though bankers are highly educated) lololol. "So you think all highly educated people tell the truth and that none lie?! No wonder you have such a fucked up perspective on things. -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No, we have 2 years to agree a settlement with the EU that they are happy with. Then if we pay them enough they will give us a trade deal. They have told us this from day 1. At some point I am sure it will registrar. But don't worry Nige has said if it all turns out to be a disaster he is fucking off to live somewhere else, a bit like pig fucker Dave did after dropping us all in this shit to get a few extra months in No 10." just how many pigs has Dave fucked, does he have preference, say may be the Gloucester old spot, or does he go more for Danish or miniature Vietnamese | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"They both are, that's not the issue; the issue is when someone doesn't even attempt to digest the information and just swallows down the bullshit that gets fed to them by whichever faction they prefer. I think the suggestion is that the better educated one is the more likely they are to critically examine arguments advanced on any subject. Well in my opinion if you support Labour you are obviously thick . Is that true?
Labour are my second team, Wolves are my first!"For the love of sweet Jesus, you need to seek help! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Well it was the highly educated former governor of the bank of England Mervyn King who said the drop in the value of the pound was a welcome change. It has boosted our exports, the FTSE 100 and our tourism industry. Plus he revealed that all of those highly educated folk working at the bank of England had been trying to devalue the pound for the last 3 years. I just had to cut out this bit.... because there are a few inaccuracies i need to correct the FTSE 100 in full of multinational who profits look inflated because of the devaluation of the pound... it doesn't actually mean they made anymore money......
and since you like to see devalueation as a good thing in your "everything with rose tinted glasses" world... lets look at those who are now losing...
you say the pound drop is good for exporters and i am not going to lie and say it isn't..... but that also forget one really teeny weeny small detail.....
the united kingdom is a net importer of goods... and a biggie at that
and all them "goods" went up in price.... from foodstuffs to electronics to cars to tv's to washing machines to computers to mobile phones, ect ect ect....
and all those commodities that for example were prices in for example us dollar we up.... oh, not important, stuff like gas, and oil, which lead to heating bills going up, petrol going up, and stuff like sugar, and coffee,
and thats before we even talk about holiday i know some of the people here like to take abroad (unless they are now all going to skegness instead!!!) and the pound being worth less in their pockets...
but hey.... never mind them!!!!! "All the more reason to change habits but local support UK investors and industry. And why we are at just why is Germanys current inflation rate higher than he UK's | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Everyone needs to take a chill pill. Today is a great day, enjoy "I'm non fussed over it. Better to let people get things off their chest for a short while. Hopefully then, the left leaning folk can put their energies into getting a credible Opposition party sorted out. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Everyone needs to take a chill pill. Today is a great day, enjoy "I'm rejoicing I've waited most of my adult life for this day, we are the leaders, the pioneers | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yeah am chilled England get what they want and Wales And Scotland will break up the UK and N.Ireland will rejoin a united Ireland And we finally become equal partners as neighbours " Seems reasonable to me, may be the English will have a vote on if we actually want our own parliament and devolved government as well | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yeah am chilled England get what they want and Wales And Scotland will break up the UK and N.Ireland will rejoin a united Ireland And we finally become equal partners as neighbours " So you advocate Independence for Scotland but not for NI? Tad hypocritical? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yeah am chilled England get what they want and Wales And Scotland will break up the UK and N.Ireland will rejoin a united Ireland And we finally become equal partners as neighbours Seems reasonable to me, may be the English will have a vote on if we actually want our own parliament and devolved government as well" Nah. Our illustrious leader has taken on the will of the whole UK and the whole UK will leave. It would be unfair on those who voted to leave in Northern Ireland and Scotland to do anything else | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yeah am chilled England get what they want and Wales And Scotland will break up the UK and N.Ireland will rejoin a united Ireland And we finally become equal partners as neighbours So you advocate Independence for Scotland but not for NI? Tad hypocritical?" Right have you heard anything from N.Ireland to say they want full independence and for them to go it alone just them or have you heard them say they want break away from the UK and rejoin to have a united Ireland ? If that is what N.Ireland want is to break away and everyone and go it alone am up for that but thats not what they have really been saying So not really hypocritical as i have said all along i would happy see every country in the world independent | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yeah am chilled England get what they want and Wales And Scotland will break up the UK and N.Ireland will rejoin a united Ireland And we finally become equal partners as neighbours So you advocate Independence for Scotland but not for NI? Tad hypocritical? Right have you heard anything from N.Ireland to say they want full independence and for them to go it alone just them or have you heard them say they want break away from the UK and rejoin to have a united Ireland ? If that is what N.Ireland want is to break away and everyone and go it alone am up for that but thats not what they have really been saying So not really hypocritical as i have said all along i would happy see every country in the world independent" Of the EU? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yeah am chilled England get what they want and Wales And Scotland will break up the UK and N.Ireland will rejoin a united Ireland And we finally become equal partners as neighbours Seems reasonable to me, may be the English will have a vote on if we actually want our own parliament and devolved government as well Nah. Our illustrious leader has taken on the will of the whole UK and the whole UK will leave. It would be unfair on those who voted to leave in Northern Ireland and Scotland to do anything else "We voted on the UK,s membership of the EU, the UK Prime Minister will do the deal. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This is all virgin territory for the EU and UK. . No one has ever held discussions or been thru this process before. This time limit to finalise the negotiations is in the procedure book but we all know, not a lot ever goes to plan There is a time limit...Its 370 days from today on the news...then UK is out of the EU.....and then government decides whether to accept the deal or not....But there is a time limit from start of formal notice to quit until we are formally out I take it you have read article 50 and that you are aware there is NO time limit" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All makes perfect sense to me. I fall to see what your problem with it is? I didn't think anyone's suggested that certain sections of society be precluded from voting in elections have they? No. But what makes one persons thinking more valid than anothers? If one 'highly educated' person comes to the conclusion through processing information, data, facts, or whatever and decides it is better to remain and another 'highly educated' person digests the same information and decides it is better to leave, who is right? Neither/both/either. Take your pick. It doesn't matter. All I have said above is that education is a factor in democracy and that if you are asking people to make decisions on complex topics it works best if they understand them. I really don't see why some people on here have a problem with that? -Matt Education is not a factor in democracy, how you see things or interpret them is, otherwise there wouldn't be a left right or centre Interesting thought. Can you expand upon that? Why do you think there wouldn't be a left, right or centre? Do you think that it would all converge on a single point, or that it would diverge in so many ways you couldn't classify opinions/parties/etc on a simple one dimensional axis? -Matt What I'm trying to say is, if more highly educated people supported one party than the other does that mean that that party would better run a country? No, not necessarily so. To blunt you can be educated and still be a cunt. You could have a party supported by a lot of highly educated people who are selfish or maybe have little social conscience. Whilst that might be in their best interests it might not be in the interests of others in that society. -Matt The same as in a referendum vote then What, that in the referendum some intelligent people voted to leave for their own self interest against the interests of society? Perhaps. But I thought this latest question was about parties running a country, not about cross-party politics such as the referendum? -Matt" The point was, you said that education is important in a democracy for people to understand the complex questions. It makes no difference in a democracy. Whose vote is worth more? The educated guy who votes to enrich himself or the uneducated guy who wants to enrich others? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There is a time limit unless all 27 countries and the UK all agree to go beyond the 2 years But right now its 18 months from Mr Barnier said and yes it could go to 2 years or maybe beyond So in short there is a time limit right now unless they all agree to go beyond the 2 years" I bet they will all agree to extend the two years as there is a lot to sort out on all side,I reckon maybe 3/4 years before we leave | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All makes perfect sense to me. I fall to see what your problem with it is? I didn't think anyone's suggested that certain sections of society be precluded from voting in elections have they? No. But what makes one persons thinking more valid than anothers? If one 'highly educated' person comes to the conclusion through processing information, data, facts, or whatever and decides it is better to remain and another 'highly educated' person digests the same information and decides it is better to leave, who is right? Neither/both/either. Take your pick. It doesn't matter. All I have said above is that education is a factor in democracy and that if you are asking people to make decisions on complex topics it works best if they understand them. I really don't see why some people on here have a problem with that? -Matt Education is not a factor in democracy, how you see things or interpret them is, otherwise there wouldn't be a left right or centre Interesting thought. Can you expand upon that? Why do you think there wouldn't be a left, right or centre? Do you think that it would all converge on a single point, or that it would diverge in so many ways you couldn't classify opinions/parties/etc on a simple one dimensional axis? -Matt What I'm trying to say is, if more highly educated people supported one party than the other does that mean that that party would better run a country? No, not necessarily so. To blunt you can be educated and still be a cunt. You could have a party supported by a lot of highly educated people who are selfish or maybe have little social conscience. Whilst that might be in their best interests it might not be in the interests of others in that society. -Matt The same as in a referendum vote then What, that in the referendum some intelligent people voted to leave for their own self interest against the interests of society? Perhaps. But I thought this latest question was about parties running a country, not about cross-party politics such as the referendum? -Matt The point was, you said that education is important in a democracy for people to understand the complex questions. It makes no difference in a democracy. Whose vote is worth more? The educated guy who votes to enrich himself or the uneducated guy who wants to enrich others?" Worth more to who? And how do you define worth? All things being equal (ie equal level of social not-be-cunt-ness, etc). Then I would still say a democratic society is better served by people understanding the issues they are voting on. To which end education is a part of that. -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I reckon maybe 3/4 years before we leave" ROFL! Today your told by the EU that the vote in the European parliament removing the UK will be before March 29 2019 and there will be no trade deal before brexit. TM also told you that the UK will be leaving the EU on 29 March 2019. So you bet they will all agree to extend the two years as there is a lot to sort out on all sides, maybe 3/4 years before we leave. I think many are suffering from some sort of a delusion. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Worth more to who? And how do you define worth? All things being equal (ie equal level of social not-be-cunt-ness, etc). Then I would still say a democratic society is better served by people understanding the issues they are voting on. To which end education is a part of that. -Matt" Matt we have a believer in the worth of privilege. The privileged are privileged because they are naturally superior. And if you prove yourself worthy like them you too may join their club. Of course to do that you will have to support and defend their privilege even if it is against your personal interests. It really is a good con trick, but then the Tories have had centuries to perfect it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All makes perfect sense to me. I fall to see what your problem with it is? I didn't think anyone's suggested that certain sections of society be precluded from voting in elections have they? No. But what makes one persons thinking more valid than anothers? If one 'highly educated' person comes to the conclusion through processing information, data, facts, or whatever and decides it is better to remain and another 'highly educated' person digests the same information and decides it is better to leave, who is right? Neither/both/either. Take your pick. It doesn't matter. All I have said above is that education is a factor in democracy and that if you are asking people to make decisions on complex topics it works best if they understand them. I really don't see why some people on here have a problem with that? -Matt Education is not a factor in democracy, how you see things or interpret them is, otherwise there wouldn't be a left right or centre Interesting thought. Can you expand upon that? Why do you think there wouldn't be a left, right or centre? Do you think that it would all converge on a single point, or that it would diverge in so many ways you couldn't classify opinions/parties/etc on a simple one dimensional axis? -Matt What I'm trying to say is, if more highly educated people supported one party than the other does that mean that that party would better run a country? No, not necessarily so. To blunt you can be educated and still be a cunt. You could have a party supported by a lot of highly educated people who are selfish or maybe have little social conscience. Whilst that might be in their best interests it might not be in the interests of others in that society. -Matt The same as in a referendum vote then What, that in the referendum some intelligent people voted to leave for their own self interest against the interests of society? Perhaps. But I thought this latest question was about parties running a country, not about cross-party politics such as the referendum? -Matt The point was, you said that education is important in a democracy for people to understand the complex questions. It makes no difference in a democracy. Whose vote is worth more? The educated guy who votes to enrich himself or the uneducated guy who wants to enrich others? Worth more to who? And how do you define worth? All things being equal (ie equal level of social not-be-cunt-ness, etc). Then I would still say a democratic society is better served by people understanding the issues they are voting on. To which end education is a part of that. -Matt" But if you haven't walked in someone elses shoes all the education in the world isn't going to help you understand all the issues you are voting on. People will vote in different ways for different reasons and none of them are wrong or less valid. That is democracy | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
