FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > A little note and observation.
A little note and observation.
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"So brexit looms and people once again are divided. The most vocal groups are the 'get on with it, shut up, we're all in it together now' and the ' okay please give us some hints of a plan, so we can plan for our future' and then of course there are probably other's with a differing opinion. Regardless, Brexit seems to be going down the tory dream of low tax, low regulation 'Singapore style model'. Whilst I don't like it, I can see the reasoning, Singapore has a large service and financial based economy like our's. However, a big part of brexit was about immigration control, yet, as reports and a new documentary show, Singapore, who we seem to be heading towards emulating, has relatively high levels of unskilled migrant migration as well. Mainly from India, Bangladesh, and the Philippines. So, to those who voted for brexit mainly on the issue of immigration, it looks like 'those jobs' which migrants do, will still be done by migrants. Unless of course, the british government is to so dictatorial it cuts down on a person's freedom to 'choose' where he or she works." Singapore also uses cheap Chinese labour. I am a big fan of Singapore.It's not a democracy its a technocracy.It works and has delivered.It uses capitalism to deliver social reforms and the most education population on earth.  | |||
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"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. " Probably Malaysia and a lot of the non-white majority common wealth nations. Hopefully the population will learn that the common wealth isn't all rich and white like Oz and NZ. | |||
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"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. " Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies?" True i can't see it happening.It will tougher to access post brexit. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies?" Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies?" Yes actually......whilst immigration from within the EU has been dropping, immigration from outside the EU, particularly from the Indian continent has been rising steadily since the referendum. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. " People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? True i can't see it happening.It will tougher to access post brexit." There are two options, the government puts legislation in so companies have to provide more in house training and better contracts - which would make the work more attractive to Brits and encourage them to fill the labour market. Or they can avoid doing that and go down the 'pro-business route' and allow things to go on as they are. This would probably not be attractive to brits, especially younger individuals who are fed up of being treated like a commodity. As a result the visa system would probably be more lax than we think it will be. I mean the other option is for the gov to go to the DWP, give Universal credit centres a list and tell them to get people to go for whatever job they say - but that would be eventually be political suicide. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. " Yes but my point is, why would we see much reduction in EU applicants when unemployment rates are so high across the continent? | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen." It's already happening..... | |||
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"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen." I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. | |||
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"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. Yes but my point is, why would we see much reduction in EU applicants when unemployment rates are so high across the continent?" I imagine many will not want to come here. Rhetoric and image are powerful. You'd have to pay me a six figure salary to go work in Hungary or Saudi or example. Of course I could be wrong, we still might have tens of thousands of EU migrants, but I'm willing to bet less will get selected as businesses will be mindful to select a more 'diverse' range of employees over fear of becoming a straw man in the eyes of the public. | |||
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"What really cracks me up about the post Brexit Utopia is the continuous use of the expression ... "We can... " If "we can" (insert - train our own Nurses, reinvent manufacturing etc etc) why has it not already been done?? This, or any previous Govt., could have controlled non EU immigration better - they chose not to. They could have amended the welfare system that some believed was a pull factor for EU migrants, they chose not to. They could have invested in education and training, they chose not to. They could have offered tax incentives to manufacturing start ups, they chose not to. So why now does anyone realistically think "We can.....,." (Meaning HMG) really do anything that could have been done at any time since the end of WW2? What will happen is that this Govt will take us out of the EU and it will be, as it always has - be every man for himself. The "We" means "You."" Precisely. Yes there are many faults within the EU don't get me wrong. But there are so many things wrong within our nations and society which are sovereign and could have been solved through british policy making. Train more british nurses? Yeah I agree. But the government really shouldn't have upped the price and scrapped the bursary scheme for NHS training, funnily enough it deters people -maybe fund the courses more so they aren't as over subscribed and so that more british people can get trained up. Manufacturing is a non-issue. It always moves where labour is cheap and regulation is lax, the exceptions being high end products. Hence why utilities manufacturing is done mainly in mexico, india and china. | |||
"Immigration to the UK 2016 Total 596,000 British 71,000 Non British 525,000 EU Citizens 268,000 Non EU Citizens 257,000 Represents a fall of 31,000 in EU Citizens, and a rise of 43,000 in non EU Citizens on 2015." Thanks for getting those figures up | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ." The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. " They won't need skill sets.....agriculture, cleaning, goods delivery, labouring.....all jobs filled by Eastern Europeans and soon to be filled by 'others' | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. They won't need skill sets.....agriculture, cleaning, goods delivery, labouring.....all jobs filled by Eastern Europeans and soon to be filled by 'others'" Theyll allow seasonal workers from the EU in on temporary visas.There is plenty of white British to do the work.You only have to cut benefits and increase minimum wage to sort it out.Also the prison population can help in the fields for extra money. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. " Precisely, there is that. And also because unless they are starting up a business, or have a niche skill eg academic research or a international business wants that individual here - why would they want to move. They have nothing to gain, wages aren't particularly better here. The labour markets in their own nations are far more favourable for them. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. They won't need skill sets.....agriculture, cleaning, goods delivery, labouring.....all jobs filled by Eastern Europeans and soon to be filled by 'others'Theyll allow seasonal workers from the EU in on temporary visas.There is plenty of white British to do the work.You only have to cut benefits and increase minimum wage to sort it out.Also the prison population can help in the fields for extra money. " You make it sound so simple.....do you employ people yourself? | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. They won't need skill sets.....agriculture, cleaning, goods delivery, labouring.....all jobs filled by Eastern Europeans and soon to be filled by 'others'" Precisely. Unless of course the government here does something to make employment in those roles more attractive to british nationals. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. They won't need skill sets.....agriculture, cleaning, goods delivery, labouring.....all jobs filled by Eastern Europeans and soon to be filled by 'others'Theyll allow seasonal workers from the EU in on temporary visas.There is plenty of white British to do the work.You only have to cut benefits and increase minimum wage to sort it out.Also the prison population can help in the fields for extra money. You make it sound so simple.....do you employ people yourself?" Its simple and yes i do. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. They won't need skill sets.....agriculture, cleaning, goods delivery, labouring.....all jobs filled by Eastern Europeans and soon to be filled by 'others'Theyll allow seasonal workers from the EU in on temporary visas.There is plenty of white British to do the work.You only have to cut benefits and increase minimum wage to sort it out.Also the prison population can help in the fields for extra money. " Double edged sword though. Cut benefits and effectively force people to 'take what they are given' and you'll face a backlash. You get voted out, then another party in, who undo what you did. 2 steps forward, one back as always here. Increase the minimum wage, and you might make the nation less competitive for business, that might lead to lack of job opportunities in the future. | |||
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"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. They won't need skill sets.....agriculture, cleaning, goods delivery, labouring.....all jobs filled by Eastern Europeans and soon to be filled by 'others'Theyll allow seasonal workers from the EU in on temporary visas.There is plenty of white British to do the work.You only have to cut benefits and increase minimum wage to sort it out.Also the prison population can help in the fields for extra money. Double edged sword though. Cut benefits and effectively force people to 'take what they are given' and you'll face a backlash. You get voted out, then another party in, who undo what you did. 2 steps forward, one back as always here. Increase the minimum wage, and you might make the nation less competitive for business, that might lead to lack of job opportunities in the future." I wouldn't worry about a backlash.They haven't rebelled so far.The long term unemployed live day to day.Most dont vote.Who they going to vote for labour?Theyll be better off on a zero hours contract than on the dole.Take away the lifestyle choice. | |||
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"The Unemployment Benefit bill for the UK is around £2.2 billion. If the skill set is so low, why is that figure so high?" That figure is only 1% of our welfare budget. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. They won't need skill sets.....agriculture, cleaning, goods delivery, labouring.....all jobs filled by Eastern Europeans and soon to be filled by 'others'Theyll allow seasonal workers from the EU in on temporary visas.There is plenty of white British to do the work.You only have to cut benefits and increase minimum wage to sort it out.Also the prison population can help in the fields for extra money. You make it sound so simple.....do you employ people yourself?Its simple and yes i do." So not your own business then? | |||
"Small to medium business can't take another rise in the Living Wage at this time, it will result in less positions being advertised as growth will be stifled in what are already challenging times." Maybe for you.I put up wages in january after increasing day rate by 10% in the same month with no drop off in customers.I dont employ people on minimum wage though. | |||
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"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. They won't need skill sets.....agriculture, cleaning, goods delivery, labouring.....all jobs filled by Eastern Europeans and soon to be filled by 'others'Theyll allow seasonal workers from the EU in on temporary visas.There is plenty of white British to do the work.You only have to cut benefits and increase minimum wage to sort it out.Also the prison population can help in the fields for extra money. Double edged sword though. Cut benefits and effectively force people to 'take what they are given' and you'll face a backlash. You get voted out, then another party in, who undo what you did. 2 steps forward, one back as always here. Increase the minimum wage, and you might make the nation less competitive for business, that might lead to lack of job opportunities in the future. I wouldn't worry about a backlash.They haven't rebelled so far.The long term unemployed live day to day.Most dont vote.Who they going to vote for labour?Theyll be better off on a zero hours contract than on the dole.Take away the lifestyle choice. " I get your point but you are still immorally forcing people to work in crappy jobs simply because our government doesn't see the benefit of affordable education and training at different ages. Also you mention cost. What will the cost be to the taxpayer as more and more people start getting referred for long term depression due to poor working conditions? Medication and therapy are not cheap. Finally you mention the unemployed live day to day - but then you mention taking away the lifestyle choice. To me it doesn't seem like a lifestyle choice if they are living day to day. And when I have been unemployed, what I have wanted is a chance to learn and work but be respected as an employee, not as a tool. When was the last time you were unemployed for more than a month? | |||
"Small to medium business can't take another rise in the Living Wage at this time, it will result in less positions being advertised as growth will be stifled in what are already challenging times.Maybe for you.I put up wages in january after increasing day rate by 10% in the same month with no drop off in customers.I dont employ people on minimum wage though." Except it's impossible to quantify unless it's known what you do, in what sector, who you employ and how much you pay them (which I obviously wouldn't expect you to put on here)...it's just finger in the air economics! | |||
"The Unemployment Benefit bill for the UK is around £2.2 billion. If the skill set is so low, why is that figure so high?" The issue isn't the skill set being low. It is the lack of diversity in skills training. s for those with low skills, would you work zero hour contracts for seven something an hour? You wonder why brits are put of work. | |||
"Small to medium business can't take another rise in the Living Wage at this time, it will result in less positions being advertised as growth will be stifled in what are already challenging times.Maybe for you.I put up wages in january after increasing day rate by 10% in the same month with no drop off in customers.I dont employ people on minimum wage though." So Is your workforce self employed?, if not do you offer a workplace pension?, if so have you factored that into your day rate? | |||
"The Unemployment Benefit bill for the UK is around £2.2 billion. If the skill set is so low, why is that figure so high? The issue isn't the skill set being low. It is the lack of diversity in skills training. s for those with low skills, would you work zero hour contracts for seven something an hour? You wonder why brits are put of work." So the answer is to condemn them to a life on benefits? | |||
"The Unemployment Benefit bill for the UK is around £2.2 billion. If the skill set is so low, why is that figure so high? The issue isn't the skill set being low. It is the lack of diversity in skills training. s for those with low skills, would you work zero hour contracts for seven something an hour? You wonder why brits are put of work. So the answer is to condemn them to a life on benefits?" I'm not condemning anyone. They can choose. My preference would be for our parliament to do what it should have done years ago, and make zero hour contracts illegal. That way people have a predictable regular income to work around. Then work actually allows people to save money, work and live. | |||
"The Unemployment Benefit bill for the UK is around £2.2 billion. If the skill set is so low, why is that figure so high? The issue isn't the skill set being low. It is the lack of diversity in skills training. s for those with low skills, would you work zero hour contracts for seven something an hour? You wonder why brits are put of work. So the answer is to condemn them to a life on benefits? I'm not condemning anyone. They can choose. My preference would be for our parliament to do what it should have done years ago, and make zero hour contracts illegal. That way people have a predictable regular income to work around. Then work actually allows people to save money, work and live. " Whether that's possible or not is debatable. A better move is to make a proper contract better for the Employer, against zero hours. I believe some employers are going down this route, JD Weatherspoons springs to mind. Some workers actually like zero hours as it suits their lifestyle choices. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies?" Remember the trade deals we are going to do with places like India? Well, part of the deal will that India will be willing to sign will include more access to the UK for Indian workers....see the reports of how initial talks went and thatll will show you | |||
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"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Remember the trade deals we are going to do with places like India? Well, part of the deal will that India will be willing to sign will include more access to the UK for Indian workers....see the reports of how initial talks went and thatll will show you" Exactly.....thank you | |||
"The Unemployment Benefit bill for the UK is around £2.2 billion. If the skill set is so low, why is that figure so high? The issue isn't the skill set being low. It is the lack of diversity in skills training. s for those with low skills, would you work zero hour contracts for seven something an hour? You wonder why brits are put of work. So the answer is to condemn them to a life on benefits? I'm not condemning anyone. They can choose. My preference would be for our parliament to do what it should have done years ago, and make zero hour contracts illegal. That way people have a predictable regular income to work around. Then work actually allows people to save money, work and live. Whether that's possible or not is debatable. A better move is to make a proper contract better for the Employer, against zero hours. I believe some employers are going down this route, JD Weatherspoons springs to mind. Some workers actually like zero hours as it suits their lifestyle choices. " How is it not suitable or possible to do zero hour contracts? Please explain how giving every worker a contracted amount of hours to work each month is no suitable. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. They won't need skill sets.....agriculture, cleaning, goods delivery, labouring.....all jobs filled by Eastern Europeans and soon to be filled by 'others'Theyll allow seasonal workers from the EU in on temporary visas.There is plenty of white British to do the work.You only have to cut benefits and increase minimum wage to sort it out.Also the prison population can help in the fields for extra money. Double edged sword though. Cut benefits and effectively force people to 'take what they are given' and you'll face a backlash. You get voted out, then another party in, who undo what you did. 2 steps forward, one back as always here. Increase the minimum wage, and you might make the nation less competitive for business, that might lead to lack of job opportunities in the future. I wouldn't worry about a backlash.They haven't rebelled so far.The long term unemployed live day to day.Most dont vote.Who they going to vote for labour?Theyll be better off on a zero hours contract than on the dole.Take away the lifestyle choice. I get your point but you are still immorally forcing people to work in crappy jobs simply because our government doesn't see the benefit of affordable education and training at different ages. Also you mention cost. What will the cost be to the taxpayer as more and more people start getting referred for long term depression due to poor working conditions? Medication and therapy are not cheap. Finally you mention the unemployed live day to day - but then you mention taking away the lifestyle choice. To me it doesn't seem like a lifestyle choice if they are living day to day. And when I have been unemployed, what I have wanted is a chance to learn and work but be respected as an employee, not as a tool. When was the last time you were unemployed for more than a month?" Ive been out of work for a week or so but never claimed benefits.Its not about morality ,that just doesnt come into it.I totally agree that 50% or more kids should be being trained for the blue collar jobs they'll be doing.Apprenticeships and vocational training is needed for them hopefully we will follow the german model ..Being long term on the dole creates depression.So i dont buy into that theyll be more depressed people working on minimum wages.It would be a beautiful world if all had great jobs and were not used as a tool that isnt the case though.If you believe there are none making it a lifestyle choice on benefits you are being silly. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ." Youre going to be disappointed. Davis said last night that immigration numbers may well go up....the only difference will be that we have more control of who they are. Those who voted to see less immigration are going to find that theyve been sold a pup | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Remember the trade deals we are going to do with places like India? Well, part of the deal will that India will be willing to sign will include more access to the UK for Indian workers....see the reports of how initial talks went and thatll will show you" I raised it months ago on here and all but one brexiteer ignored it. All the individual said was that things would change and that wouldn't be included - as if he was the Indian government who will be pushing for it. | |||
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"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. Youre going to be disappointed. Davis said last night that immigration numbers may well go up....the only difference will be that we have more control of who they are. Those who voted to see less immigration are going to find that theyve been sold a pup" I wont be disappointed as I voted remain and to me immigration wasn't an issue which leaving the EU would fix. I understand problems associate with it, but leaving the EU isn't the magic bullet. | |||
"The industrial unit next to mine employs every worker on zero hours, watching grown men turn up every day not knowing if they are going to be working or not, and often they are not and get turned around, is proof we have a heartless government who categorically refuse to crack down on this disgraceful way to employ people. I see this in California when I'm there, only difference being the 'zero's' are often illegals waiting on corners waiting for gang masters to come along and pick workers for field work. It's no way to treat our workforce in this day and age and the Tories should be ashamed." I agree. A few years ago before I got into my job now I was doing call centre and warehouse work on zero hours. I hated it. I hated how I felt exploited and how if I told one employer I'd already been offered hours by the other I was given an ear full. I hated every moment of it. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. Youre going to be disappointed. Davis said last night that immigration numbers may well go up....the only difference will be that we have more control of who they are. Those who voted to see less immigration are going to find that theyve been sold a pup I wont be disappointed as I voted remain and to me immigration wasn't an issue which leaving the EU would fix. I understand problems associate with it, but leaving the EU isn't the magic bullet." Leaving the EU is the magic bullet if youre contemplating economic suicide...... | |||
"The industrial unit next to mine employs every worker on zero hours, watching grown men turn up every day not knowing if they are going to be working or not, and often they are not and get turned around, is proof we have a heartless government who categorically refuse to crack down on this disgraceful way to employ people. I see this in California when I'm there, only difference being the 'zero's' are often illegals waiting on corners waiting for gang masters to come along and pick workers for field work. It's no way to treat our workforce in this day and age and the Tories should be ashamed. I agree. A few years ago before I got into my job now I was doing call centre and warehouse work on zero hours. I hated it. I hated how I felt exploited and how if I told one employer I'd already been offered hours by the other I was given an ear full. I hated every moment of it." Fortunately ive never had to do a zero ours job. It's exploitative and simply wrong in this day and age. Those who argue that it suits some people are talking tosh. There are plenty of contractual arrangements available which are less inhumane and just as flexible | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. They won't need skill sets.....agriculture, cleaning, goods delivery, labouring.....all jobs filled by Eastern Europeans and soon to be filled by 'others'Theyll allow seasonal workers from the EU in on temporary visas.There is plenty of white British to do the work.You only have to cut benefits and increase minimum wage to sort it out.Also the prison population can help in the fields for extra money. Double edged sword though. Cut benefits and effectively force people to 'take what they are given' and you'll face a backlash. You get voted out, then another party in, who undo what you did. 2 steps forward, one back as always here. Increase the minimum wage, and you might make the nation less competitive for business, that might lead to lack of job opportunities in the future. I wouldn't worry about a backlash.They haven't rebelled so far.The long term unemployed live day to day.Most dont vote.Who they going to vote for labour?Theyll be better off on a zero hours contract than on the dole.Take away the lifestyle choice. I get your point but you are still immorally forcing people to work in crappy jobs simply because our government doesn't see the benefit of affordable education and training at different ages. Also you mention cost. What will the cost be to the taxpayer as more and more people start getting referred for long term depression due to poor working conditions? Medication and therapy are not cheap. Finally you mention the unemployed live day to day - but then you mention taking away the lifestyle choice. To me it doesn't seem like a lifestyle choice if they are living day to day. And when I have been unemployed, what I have wanted is a chance to learn and work but be respected as an employee, not as a tool. When was the last time you were unemployed for more than a month? Ive been out of work for a week or so but never claimed benefits.Its not about morality ,that just doesnt come into it.I totally agree that 50% or more kids should be being trained for the blue collar jobs they'll be doing.Apprenticeships and vocational training is needed for them hopefully we will follow the german model ..Being long term on the dole creates depression.So i dont buy into that theyll be more depressed people working on minimum wages.It would be a beautiful world if all had great jobs and were not used as a tool that isnt the case though.If you believe there are none making it a lifestyle choice on benefits you are being silly." I agree that some do abuse the system and effectively ruin the welfare state for those who do need, or in years to come might need it. And I agree on the german model, technical skills training in computing, engineering and all that would be great. You have to understand though that zero hour contracts often leave people worse off than Universal credit, and that the unpredictable nature of how much they will earn on the contracts, to some, is worse that regular welfare. | |||
"The industrial unit next to mine employs every worker on zero hours, watching grown men turn up every day not knowing if they are going to be working or not, and often they are not and get turned around, is proof we have a heartless government who categorically refuse to crack down on this disgraceful way to employ people. I see this in California when I'm there, only difference being the 'zero's' are often illegals waiting on corners waiting for gang masters to come along and pick workers for field work. It's no way to treat our workforce in this day and age and the Tories should be ashamed. I agree. A few years ago before I got into my job now I was doing call centre and warehouse work on zero hours. I hated it. I hated how I felt exploited and how if I told one employer I'd already been offered hours by the other I was given an ear full. I hated every moment of it. Fortunately ive never had to do a zero ours job. It's exploitative and simply wrong in this day and age. Those who argue that it suits some people are talking tosh. There are plenty of contractual arrangements available which are less inhumane and just as flexible" Exactly. One week on zero hours I did 10 hours, the next week I did nearly a full week of 9-5. I would have loved it if all my weeks had been like the latter. But the weren't it was hit and miss. I basically became afraid to spend money . | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. They won't need skill sets.....agriculture, cleaning, goods delivery, labouring.....all jobs filled by Eastern Europeans and soon to be filled by 'others'Theyll allow seasonal workers from the EU in on temporary visas.There is plenty of white British to do the work.You only have to cut benefits and increase minimum wage to sort it out.Also the prison population can help in the fields for extra money. Double edged sword though. Cut benefits and effectively force people to 'take what they are given' and you'll face a backlash. You get voted out, then another party in, who undo what you did. 2 steps forward, one back as always here. Increase the minimum wage, and you might make the nation less competitive for business, that might lead to lack of job opportunities in the future. I wouldn't worry about a backlash.They haven't rebelled so far.The long term unemployed live day to day.Most dont vote.Who they going to vote for labour?Theyll be better off on a zero hours contract than on the dole.Take away the lifestyle choice. I get your point but you are still immorally forcing people to work in crappy jobs simply because our government doesn't see the benefit of affordable education and training at different ages. Also you mention cost. What will the cost be to the taxpayer as more and more people start getting referred for long term depression due to poor working conditions? Medication and therapy are not cheap. Finally you mention the unemployed live day to day - but then you mention taking away the lifestyle choice. To me it doesn't seem like a lifestyle choice if they are living day to day. And when I have been unemployed, what I have wanted is a chance to learn and work but be respected as an employee, not as a tool. When was the last time you were unemployed for more than a month? Ive been out of work for a week or so but never claimed benefits.Its not about morality ,that just doesnt come into it.I totally agree that 50% or more kids should be being trained for the blue collar jobs they'll be doing.Apprenticeships and vocational training is needed for them hopefully we will follow the german model ..Being long term on the dole creates depression.So i dont buy into that theyll be more depressed people working on minimum wages.It would be a beautiful world if all had great jobs and were not used as a tool that isnt the case though.If you believe there are none making it a lifestyle choice on benefits you are being silly." Still waiting for your answer to my earlier post about how you employ people..... | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. They won't need skill sets.....agriculture, cleaning, goods delivery, labouring.....all jobs filled by Eastern Europeans and soon to be filled by 'others'Theyll allow seasonal workers from the EU in on temporary visas.There is plenty of white British to do the work.You only have to cut benefits and increase minimum wage to sort it out.Also the prison population can help in the fields for extra money. Double edged sword though. Cut benefits and effectively force people to 'take what they are given' and you'll face a backlash. You get voted out, then another party in, who undo what you did. 2 steps forward, one back as always here. Increase the minimum wage, and you might make the nation less competitive for business, that might lead to lack of job opportunities in the future. I wouldn't worry about a backlash.They haven't rebelled so far.The long term unemployed live day to day.Most dont vote.Who they going to vote for labour?Theyll be better off on a zero hours contract than on the dole.Take away the lifestyle choice. I get your point but you are still immorally forcing people to work in crappy jobs simply because our government doesn't see the benefit of affordable education and training at different ages. Also you mention cost. What will the cost be to the taxpayer as more and more people start getting referred for long term depression due to poor working conditions? Medication and therapy are not cheap. Finally you mention the unemployed live day to day - but then you mention taking away the lifestyle choice. To me it doesn't seem like a lifestyle choice if they are living day to day. And when I have been unemployed, what I have wanted is a chance to learn and work but be respected as an employee, not as a tool. When was the last time you were unemployed for more than a month? Ive been out of work for a week or so but never claimed benefits.Its not about morality ,that just doesnt come into it.I totally agree that 50% or more kids should be being trained for the blue collar jobs they'll be doing.Apprenticeships and vocational training is needed for them hopefully we will follow the german model ..Being long term on the dole creates depression.So i dont buy into that theyll be more depressed people working on minimum wages.It would be a beautiful world if all had great jobs and were not used as a tool that isnt the case though.If you believe there are none making it a lifestyle choice on benefits you are being silly. I agree that some do abuse the system and effectively ruin the welfare state for those who do need, or in years to come might need it. And I agree on the german model, technical skills training in computing, engineering and all that would be great. You have to understand though that zero hour contracts often leave people worse off than Universal credit, and that the unpredictable nature of how much they will earn on the contracts, to some, is worse that regular welfare." Its not great but better than unemployment.The market demands flexability in the workforce.Get the law changed if you think it will improve lives. My guess is they'll work around a ban on zero hour contracts.By making everyone part time or job share or something similar. | |||
| |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. Youre going to be disappointed. Davis said last night that immigration numbers may well go up....the only difference will be that we have more control of who they are. Those who voted to see less immigration are going to find that theyve been sold a pup" Yet more misleading from Remainers on here but why should we be surprised by now? 
If you are going to quote David Davis on BBC question time last night at least have the good grace to tell everyone what he said in full with regard to this which was ;- immigration numbers may well go up and they may well go down, they key point is we will have full control over it. Immigration numbers will be set at the level that the country needs, so when the country needs more immigrants we can let more in, when the country needs fewer we can let less in.
Also when David Dimbleby asked 'will the conservative government ever meet its tens of thousands (per year) immigration target?', David Davis replied, "We will get there".
The vote to leave the EU last year was a huge wake up call to all MP's, politicians and business leaders in the country. The people sent a message loud and clear they are not happy with how things are currently being done, the government will have looked at the main reasons for the Leave vote winning and will be taking practical steps to address those issues in a post Brexit Britain. Teresa May has said in many of her Brexit speeches since she became Prime minister that people voted for change in the EU referendum and change is what she will deliver. | |||
"So I'm just catching up on the question time brexit special from last night. People keep on mentioning how Oz, New Zealand, Canada and India are lining up to trade with us and we can do fine without europe. I seeing as how the point of trade is to exchange goods and services to one another for money, or to allow the outsourcing of production so that goods can be produced more effectively, what do we actually get from trading with these nations which is of benefit to us? People keep mentioning Beef and lamb from Oz and New Zealand which we can buy in. But I would have thought most people would buy British products? What products and services will be export to NZ and Australia? We have similar demographics and education levels so will anything other than niche items be exchanged? What will India buy from us? We don't really produce luxury items that can be sold in enough quantities to power the economy. Surely it will favour them more? British companies will outsource more service centres there and we will most likely import more. The only obvious candidate is Canada which has a booming biotech and pharmaceuticals industry - that I understand, we want cheaper medication if we can get it, and our R&D sector is numerically bigger than there's so they benefit in outsourcing capacity. But how will our export market actually do better from these nations?" Research and development is where should invest heavily and export cutting edge technology.Its a long game though no immediate export potential. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. They won't need skill sets.....agriculture, cleaning, goods delivery, labouring.....all jobs filled by Eastern Europeans and soon to be filled by 'others'Theyll allow seasonal workers from the EU in on temporary visas.There is plenty of white British to do the work.You only have to cut benefits and increase minimum wage to sort it out.Also the prison population can help in the fields for extra money. Double edged sword though. Cut benefits and effectively force people to 'take what they are given' and you'll face a backlash. You get voted out, then another party in, who undo what you did. 2 steps forward, one back as always here. Increase the minimum wage, and you might make the nation less competitive for business, that might lead to lack of job opportunities in the future. I wouldn't worry about a backlash.They haven't rebelled so far.The long term unemployed live day to day.Most dont vote.Who they going to vote for labour?Theyll be better off on a zero hours contract than on the dole.Take away the lifestyle choice. I get your point but you are still immorally forcing people to work in crappy jobs simply because our government doesn't see the benefit of affordable education and training at different ages. Also you mention cost. What will the cost be to the taxpayer as more and more people start getting referred for long term depression due to poor working conditions? Medication and therapy are not cheap. Finally you mention the unemployed live day to day - but then you mention taking away the lifestyle choice. To me it doesn't seem like a lifestyle choice if they are living day to day. And when I have been unemployed, what I have wanted is a chance to learn and work but be respected as an employee, not as a tool. When was the last time you were unemployed for more than a month? Ive been out of work for a week or so but never claimed benefits.Its not about morality ,that just doesnt come into it.I totally agree that 50% or more kids should be being trained for the blue collar jobs they'll be doing.Apprenticeships and vocational training is needed for them hopefully we will follow the german model ..Being long term on the dole creates depression.So i dont buy into that theyll be more depressed people working on minimum wages.It would be a beautiful world if all had great jobs and were not used as a tool that isnt the case though.If you believe there are none making it a lifestyle choice on benefits you are being silly. I agree that some do abuse the system and effectively ruin the welfare state for those who do need, or in years to come might need it. And I agree on the german model, technical skills training in computing, engineering and all that would be great. You have to understand though that zero hour contracts often leave people worse off than Universal credit, and that the unpredictable nature of how much they will earn on the contracts, to some, is worse that regular welfare.Its not great but better than unemployment.The market demands flexability in the workforce.Get the law changed if you think it will improve lives. My guess is they'll work around a ban on zero hour contracts.By making everyone part time or job share or something similar." All you do is introduce minimum hours contracts, say 4 hours a week, then pay additional hours as overtime on Base rate. People forget that zero hours have been around for decades but only came to public attention with the sportswear people. They actually rose rapidly at the first part of the century despite Tony Blair saying that he would ban them | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. Youre going to be disappointed. Davis said last night that immigration numbers may well go up....the only difference will be that we have more control of who they are. Those who voted to see less immigration are going to find that theyve been sold a pup Yet more misleading from Remainers on here but why should we be surprised by now?
If you are going to quote David Davis on BBC question time last night at least have the good grace to tell everyone what he said in full with regard to this which was ;- immigration numbers may well go up and they may well go down, they key point is we will have full control over it. Immigration numbers will be set at the level that the country needs, so when the country needs more immigrants we can let more in, when the country needs fewer we can let less in.
Also when David Dimbleby asked 'will the conservative government ever meet its tens of thousands (per year) immigration target?', David Davis replied, "We will get there".
The vote to leave the EU last year was a huge wake up call to all MP's, politicians and business leaders in the country. The people sent a message loud and clear they are not happy with how things are currently being done, the government will have looked at the main reasons for the Leave vote winning and will be taking practical steps to address those issues in a post Brexit Britain. Teresa May has said in many of her Brexit speeches since she became Prime minister that people voted for change in the EU referendum and change is what she will deliver. "Al you did is add a load of waffle. I've literally just watch the bit now about bringing immigration down and he mentions "we have industries and public sectors heavily reliant on migrant workers, and we must ensure that they can continue to access migrant labour they need." In short, yes we can sent immigration to what the country needs. But it will not be the public that decides. It will be the MPs with the ears of international and national big businesses. So in short, the UKIP and hard right tory objective - and therefore brexit objective to bring immigration down to 'tens of thousands' will most likely be impossible to do in perhaps 5-10 years time. Maybe if big businesses stay here and start training our own nationals, it might get to the low end of 100,000 after a decade. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. They won't need skill sets.....agriculture, cleaning, goods delivery, labouring.....all jobs filled by Eastern Europeans and soon to be filled by 'others'Theyll allow seasonal workers from the EU in on temporary visas.There is plenty of white British to do the work.You only have to cut benefits and increase minimum wage to sort it out.Also the prison population can help in the fields for extra money. Double edged sword though. Cut benefits and effectively force people to 'take what they are given' and you'll face a backlash. You get voted out, then another party in, who undo what you did. 2 steps forward, one back as always here. Increase the minimum wage, and you might make the nation less competitive for business, that might lead to lack of job opportunities in the future. I wouldn't worry about a backlash.They haven't rebelled so far.The long term unemployed live day to day.Most dont vote.Who they going to vote for labour?Theyll be better off on a zero hours contract than on the dole.Take away the lifestyle choice. I get your point but you are still immorally forcing people to work in crappy jobs simply because our government doesn't see the benefit of affordable education and training at different ages. Also you mention cost. What will the cost be to the taxpayer as more and more people start getting referred for long term depression due to poor working conditions? Medication and therapy are not cheap. Finally you mention the unemployed live day to day - but then you mention taking away the lifestyle choice. To me it doesn't seem like a lifestyle choice if they are living day to day. And when I have been unemployed, what I have wanted is a chance to learn and work but be respected as an employee, not as a tool. When was the last time you were unemployed for more than a month? Ive been out of work for a week or so but never claimed benefits.Its not about morality ,that just doesnt come into it.I totally agree that 50% or more kids should be being trained for the blue collar jobs they'll be doing.Apprenticeships and vocational training is needed for them hopefully we will follow the german model ..Being long term on the dole creates depression.So i dont buy into that theyll be more depressed people working on minimum wages.It would be a beautiful world if all had great jobs and were not used as a tool that isnt the case though.If you believe there are none making it a lifestyle choice on benefits you are being silly. I agree that some do abuse the system and effectively ruin the welfare state for those who do need, or in years to come might need it. And I agree on the german model, technical skills training in computing, engineering and all that would be great. You have to understand though that zero hour contracts often leave people worse off than Universal credit, and that the unpredictable nature of how much they will earn on the contracts, to some, is worse that regular welfare.Its not great but better than unemployment.The market demands flexability in the workforce.Get the law changed if you think it will improve lives. My guess is they'll work around a ban on zero hour contracts.By making everyone part time or job share or something similar. All you do is introduce minimum hours contracts, say 4 hours a week, then pay additional hours as overtime on Base rate. People forget that zero hours have been around for decades but only came to public attention with the sportswear people. They actually rose rapidly at the first part of the century despite Tony Blair saying that he would ban them" Im not playing a pass the blame game. Also simply contracting short hours then paying overtime on a base rate will mean so many businesses will use legal loopholes to undercharge on overtime. Unless you are suggesting a national one rule covers all standard wage overtime wage. In which case the public would have none of it. Also, it leaves the option open for a company to just contract a load of unskilled workers and have them all do 4 hours each day which doesn't get those individuals into full time work. Speak to any under 35 who isn't in a career job yet and what they will say they want is a contract so they know when their day starts and ends, so they can get home and spend time bettering themselves, making themselves happy, or investing in their kids. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. They won't need skill sets.....agriculture, cleaning, goods delivery, labouring.....all jobs filled by Eastern Europeans and soon to be filled by 'others'Theyll allow seasonal workers from the EU in on temporary visas.There is plenty of white British to do the work.You only have to cut benefits and increase minimum wage to sort it out.Also the prison population can help in the fields for extra money. Double edged sword though. Cut benefits and effectively force people to 'take what they are given' and you'll face a backlash. You get voted out, then another party in, who undo what you did. 2 steps forward, one back as always here. Increase the minimum wage, and you might make the nation less competitive for business, that might lead to lack of job opportunities in the future. I wouldn't worry about a backlash.They haven't rebelled so far.The long term unemployed live day to day.Most dont vote.Who they going to vote for labour?Theyll be better off on a zero hours contract than on the dole.Take away the lifestyle choice. I get your point but you are still immorally forcing people to work in crappy jobs simply because our government doesn't see the benefit of affordable education and training at different ages. Also you mention cost. What will the cost be to the taxpayer as more and more people start getting referred for long term depression due to poor working conditions? Medication and therapy are not cheap. Finally you mention the unemployed live day to day - but then you mention taking away the lifestyle choice. To me it doesn't seem like a lifestyle choice if they are living day to day. And when I have been unemployed, what I have wanted is a chance to learn and work but be respected as an employee, not as a tool. When was the last time you were unemployed for more than a month? Ive been out of work for a week or so but never claimed benefits.Its not about morality ,that just doesnt come into it.I totally agree that 50% or more kids should be being trained for the blue collar jobs they'll be doing.Apprenticeships and vocational training is needed for them hopefully we will follow the german model ..Being long term on the dole creates depression.So i dont buy into that theyll be more depressed people working on minimum wages.It would be a beautiful world if all had great jobs and were not used as a tool that isnt the case though.If you believe there are none making it a lifestyle choice on benefits you are being silly. I agree that some do abuse the system and effectively ruin the welfare state for those who do need, or in years to come might need it. And I agree on the german model, technical skills training in computing, engineering and all that would be great. You have to understand though that zero hour contracts often leave people worse off than Universal credit, and that the unpredictable nature of how much they will earn on the contracts, to some, is worse that regular welfare.Its not great but better than unemployment.The market demands flexability in the workforce.Get the law changed if you think it will improve lives. My guess is they'll work around a ban on zero hour contracts.By making everyone part time or job share or something similar. All you do is introduce minimum hours contracts, say 4 hours a week, then pay additional hours as overtime on Base rate. People forget that zero hours have been around for decades but only came to public attention with the sportswear people. They actually rose rapidly at the first part of the century despite Tony Blair saying that he would ban them Im not playing a pass the blame game. Also simply contracting short hours then paying overtime on a base rate will mean so many businesses will use legal loopholes to undercharge on overtime. Unless you are suggesting a national one rule covers all standard wage overtime wage. In which case the public would have none of it. Also, it leaves the option open for a company to just contract a load of unskilled workers and have them all do 4 hours each day which doesn't get those individuals into full time work. Speak to any under 35 who isn't in a career job yet and what they will say they want is a contract so they know when their day starts and ends, so they can get home and spend time bettering themselves, making themselves happy, or investing in their kids." you mis-understand...they pay the "overtime" at the basic hourly rate...no enhancements. Some of the more unscrupulous employers will just turn to the black market of course. | |||
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"Ask yourself this... What is the motivation for someone from Oz to go the UK to work? Weather? Earning potential? "I watched a video on youtube of the Remoaners marching in London last weekend. The guy filming was doing interviews asking why people were marching. One guy marching was an Australian, and he said he came to live and work here because of family ties. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. Youre going to be disappointed. Davis said last night that immigration numbers may well go up....the only difference will be that we have more control of who they are. Those who voted to see less immigration are going to find that theyve been sold a pup Yet more misleading from Remainers on here but why should we be surprised by now?
If you are going to quote David Davis on BBC question time last night at least have the good grace to tell everyone what he said in full with regard to this which was ;- immigration numbers may well go up and they may well go down, they key point is we will have full control over it. Immigration numbers will be set at the level that the country needs, so when the country needs more immigrants we can let more in, when the country needs fewer we can let less in.
Also when David Dimbleby asked 'will the conservative government ever meet its tens of thousands (per year) immigration target?', David Davis replied, "We will get there".
The vote to leave the EU last year was a huge wake up call to all MP's, politicians and business leaders in the country. The people sent a message loud and clear they are not happy with how things are currently being done, the government will have looked at the main reasons for the Leave vote winning and will be taking practical steps to address those issues in a post Brexit Britain. Teresa May has said in many of her Brexit speeches since she became Prime minister that people voted for change in the EU referendum and change is what she will deliver.
Al you did is add a load of waffle. I've literally just watch the bit now about bringing immigration down and he mentions "we have industries and public sectors heavily reliant on migrant workers, and we must ensure that they can continue to access migrant labour they need." In short, yes we can sent immigration to what the country needs. But it will not be the public that decides. It will be the MPs with the ears of international and national big businesses.
So in short, the UKIP and hard right tory objective - and therefore brexit objective to bring immigration down to 'tens of thousands' will most likely be impossible to do in perhaps 5-10 years time.
Maybe if big businesses stay here and start training our own nationals, it might get to the low end of 100,000 after a decade."I'm a ukip voter/supporter and I'd settle for 10 years to bring immigration down to the tens of thousands. Every journey must start with a single step and the first step of the journey is leaving the EU. To bring it down gradually to the tens of thousands over a 10 year period seems sensible as it will give business and government time to adjust and can put in place more apprenticeships and UK based training schemes to give UK citizens the skills needed to fill the gaps in the jobs market. | |||
" I'm a ukip voter/supporter and I'd settle for 10 years to bring immigration down to the tens of thousands. Every journey must start with a single step and the first step of the journey is leaving the EU. To bring it down gradually to the tens of thousands over a 10 year period seems sensible as it will give business and government time to adjust and can put in place more apprenticeships and UK based training schemes to give UK citizens the skills needed to fill the gaps in the jobs market. " Out of interest, if the economical / practical matters that you perceive were addressed... e.g. immigrants were not causing pressure on services that you perceive they are, or that they were not causing pressure on the job/housing market/etc that you perceive they are... would still have a problem with the immigration numbers remaining what they are? -Matt | |||
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"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. Youre going to be disappointed. Davis said last night that immigration numbers may well go up....the only difference will be that we have more control of who they are. Those who voted to see less immigration are going to find that theyve been sold a pup Yet more misleading from Remainers on here but why should we be surprised by now?
If you are going to quote David Davis on BBC question time last night at least have the good grace to tell everyone what he said in full with regard to this which was ;- immigration numbers may well go up and they may well go down, they key point is we will have full control over it. Immigration numbers will be set at the level that the country needs, so when the country needs more immigrants we can let more in, when the country needs fewer we can let less in.
Also when David Dimbleby asked 'will the conservative government ever meet its tens of thousands (per year) immigration target?', David Davis replied, "We will get there".
The vote to leave the EU last year was a huge wake up call to all MP's, politicians and business leaders in the country. The people sent a message loud and clear they are not happy with how things are currently being done, the government will have looked at the main reasons for the Leave vote winning and will be taking practical steps to address those issues in a post Brexit Britain. Teresa May has said in many of her Brexit speeches since she became Prime minister that people voted for change in the EU referendum and change is what she will deliver. "Dont try and patronise me please, you're certainly nowhere near clever enough to carry it off. I used the word may if you read what I wrote. | |||
"Poles and Slovakians will simply be replaced by greater numbers from India and Bangladesh......sort of less chalk white faces and more brown faces. Why's that? Will it suddenly be easier for Indians than Poles etc to come to the UK and is the EU area suddenly going to become full of job vacancies? Nobody said that it would be easier for one group over another, simply that it would be likely that immigration from non-white/non-european nations will increase. Our go to will most likely be those once part of the common wealth. Many pro-brexit MEP's and MP's said this - Dan Hannan and Gove to name two. Why will we still be out sourcing labour to migrant workers? Simple, a lot of british people are fed up of low wages in zero hour contracts/poor contract hours. A Tory government is very unlikely to tackle this sovereign issue. Mention all you want about taking back control via the use of visas, those visas will be filled in for low skilled jobs because our government is happy to treat british citizens as a commodity. No form of Brexit or immigration restriction will change that. Only getting the right politicians in will. People will work zero hours contracts if that all there is. They'll have no choice.There wont be be more brown faces.That wont go down well with the electorate if they replace poles and Romanians with indians amd Africans .Never going to happen. I disagree. A lot of people are fed up and depressed due to being treated poorly on zero hour contracts. I have friends who protest voted leave in the hope that someone might realise that zero hour contracts are not working for the public. I don't expect a marked rise in immigration, if anything I expect that in 4 years it will be down significantly once we are fully departed from the EU, but I do expect that the origin of those coming here will change. Less europeans, more people from the common wealth. And probably not those from OZ, Canada and NZ. The non white common wealth countries just dont have the skill sets required. They won't need skill sets.....agriculture, cleaning, goods delivery, labouring.....all jobs filled by Eastern Europeans and soon to be filled by 'others'Theyll allow seasonal workers from the EU in on temporary visas.There is plenty of white British to do the work.You only have to cut benefits and increase minimum wage to sort it out.Also the prison population can help in the fields for extra money. Double edged sword though. Cut benefits and effectively force people to 'take what they are given' and you'll face a backlash. You get voted out, then another party in, who undo what you did. 2 steps forward, one back as always here. Increase the minimum wage, and you might make the nation less competitive for business, that might lead to lack of job opportunities in the future. I wouldn't worry about a backlash.They haven't rebelled so far.The long term unemployed live day to day.Most dont vote.Who they going to vote for labour?Theyll be better off on a zero hours contract than on the dole.Take away the lifestyle choice. I get your point but you are still immorally forcing people to work in crappy jobs simply because our government doesn't see the benefit of affordable education and training at different ages. Also you mention cost. What will the cost be to the taxpayer as more and more people start getting referred for long term depression due to poor working conditions? Medication and therapy are not cheap. Finally you mention the unemployed live day to day - but then you mention taking away the lifestyle choice. To me it doesn't seem like a lifestyle choice if they are living day to day. And when I have been unemployed, what I have wanted is a chance to learn and work but be respected as an employee, not as a tool. When was the last time you were unemployed for more than a month? Ive been out of work for a week or so but never claimed benefits.Its not about morality ,that just doesnt come into it.I totally agree that 50% or more kids should be being trained for the blue collar jobs they'll be doing.Apprenticeships and vocational training is needed for them hopefully we will follow the german model ..Being long term on the dole creates depression.So i dont buy into that theyll be more depressed people working on minimum wages.It would be a beautiful world if all had great jobs and were not used as a tool that isnt the case though.If you believe there are none making it a lifestyle choice on benefits you are being silly. I agree that some do abuse the system and effectively ruin the welfare state for those who do need, or in years to come might need it. And I agree on the german model, technical skills training in computing, engineering and all that would be great. You have to understand though that zero hour contracts often leave people worse off than Universal credit, and that the unpredictable nature of how much they will earn on the contracts, to some, is worse that regular welfare.Its not great but better than unemployment.The market demands flexability in the workforce.Get the law changed if you think it will improve lives. My guess is they'll work around a ban on zero hour contracts.By making everyone part time or job share or something similar. All you do is introduce minimum hours contracts, say 4 hours a week, then pay additional hours as overtime on Base rate. People forget that zero hours have been around for decades but only came to public attention with the sportswear people. They actually rose rapidly at the first part of the century despite Tony Blair saying that he would ban them" Theyre inhumane and a blunt instrument. Any employer using them is trying to play golf with only one club in their bag. Even a cursory glance at the range of employment arrangements available will show you how it is simple to use contracts other than zero hours whilst retaining flexibility. Lazy HR imho | |||
"So brexit looms and people once again are divided. The most vocal groups are the 'get on with it, shut up, we're all in it together now' and the ' okay please give us some hints of a plan, so we can plan for our future' and then of course there are probably other's with a differing opinion. Regardless, Brexit seems to be going down the tory dream of low tax, low regulation 'Singapore style model'. Whilst I don't like it, I can see the reasoning, Singapore has a large service and financial based economy like our's. However, a big part of brexit was about immigration control, yet, as reports and a new documentary show, Singapore, who we seem to be heading towards emulating, has relatively high levels of unskilled migrant migration as well. Mainly from India, Bangladesh, and the Philippines. So, to those who voted for brexit mainly on the issue of immigration, it looks like 'those jobs' which migrants do, will still be done by migrants. Unless of course, the british government is to so dictatorial it cuts down on a person's freedom to 'choose' where he or she works.Singapore also uses cheap Chinese labour. I am a big fan of Singapore.It's not a democracy its a technocracy.It works and has delivered.It uses capitalism to deliver social reforms and the most education population on earth. "Educated.... | |||
