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Record numbers of EU nurses quit NH
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-Matt | |||
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"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt"I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem. Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour. | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour. "Problem is, funding to NHS nursing courses have been cut - and there bursaries have been cut. Basically the training of nurses in this country is been hacked at from two ends. Funding limiting training spaces available, and funding for bursaries which deters kids from working class and less affluent backgrounds from going into it. It might sound simple. Train more british nationals, but with brexit and the gov less willing to splash around money till we weather any potential storm, then NHS training will probably remain at its current flat line. | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour. "Why bother responding then? I mean, what is the point in just blatently flaunting your ignorance other than to troll? -Matt | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour. "Only a person with no clue whatsoever about the needs of the NHS, training resources and funding could come up with a statement like that. A bit like the guy who says we just need to spend more money that we haven't got and allocate all the resources that we haven't got. Not my problem, I don't care, but that is what should be done. | |||
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"A boost for the struggling countries they came from then " | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Problem is, funding to NHS nursing courses have been cut - and there bursaries have been cut.
Basically the training of nurses in this country is been hacked at from two ends. Funding limiting training spaces available, and funding for bursaries which deters kids from working class and less affluent backgrounds from going into it.
It might sound simple. Train more british nationals, but with brexit and the gov less willing to splash around money till we weather any potential storm, then NHS training will probably remain at its current flat line. "Hopefully if less nurses are coming from the EU, we are also having less of benefit suckng scroungers as well, but I doubt it!. | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Problem is, funding to NHS nursing courses have been cut - and there bursaries have been cut.
Basically the training of nurses in this country is been hacked at from two ends. Funding limiting training spaces available, and funding for bursaries which deters kids from working class and less affluent backgrounds from going into it.
It might sound simple. Train more british nationals, but with brexit and the gov less willing to splash around money till we weather any potential storm, then NHS training will probably remain at its current flat line.
Hopefully if less nurses are coming from the EU, we are also having less of benefit suckng scroungers as well, but I doubt it!."They are not scroungers they are workers! Working in our NHS! | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Problem is, funding to NHS nursing courses have been cut - and there bursaries have been cut.
Basically the training of nurses in this country is been hacked at from two ends. Funding limiting training spaces available, and funding for bursaries which deters kids from working class and less affluent backgrounds from going into it.
It might sound simple. Train more british nationals, but with brexit and the gov less willing to splash around money till we weather any potential storm, then NHS training will probably remain at its current flat line.
Hopefully if less nurses are coming from the EU, we are also having less of benefit suckng scroungers as well, but I doubt it!."What has brexit got to do with the likes of Amazon and the royal family, to name but two enormous scroungers.... | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour. "all fine but nurse applications since Osborne removed the bursaries has dropped by 23%.. there are about 24,000 vacancies at present, factor in that according to the RCN by 2020 half the current workforce will be eligible for retirement.. it also takes a minimum of 3 years to train so yes you could say that whatever ones view of immigration and 'imported labour' there is a problem.. | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Problem is, funding to NHS nursing courses have been cut - and there bursaries have been cut.
Basically the training of nurses in this country is been hacked at from two ends. Funding limiting training spaces available, and funding for bursaries which deters kids from working class and less affluent backgrounds from going into it.
It might sound simple. Train more british nationals, but with brexit and the gov less willing to splash around money till we weather any potential storm, then NHS training will probably remain at its current flat line.
Hopefully if less nurses are coming from the EU, we are also having less of benefit suckng scroungers as well, but I doubt it!."Yeah, I hope if we have less nurses coming over that we also get less green jelly babies in my packet of Maynards as well, but I doubt it! -Matt | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
all fine but nurse applications since Osborne removed the bursaries has dropped by 23%..
there are about 24,000 vacancies at present, factor in that according to the RCN by 2020 half the current workforce will be eligible for retirement..
it also takes a minimum of 3 years to train so yes you could say that whatever ones view of immigration and 'imported labour' there is a problem..
"Precisely. Either our government radically changes it's policy on recruiting and training for healthcare and science ect, or we'll be relying on non-UK nationals for more than 3 years. | |||
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"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
all fine but nurse applications since Osborne removed the bursaries has dropped by 23%..
there are about 24,000 vacancies at present, factor in that according to the RCN by 2020 half the current workforce will be eligible for retirement..
it also takes a minimum of 3 years to train so yes you could say that whatever ones view of immigration and 'imported labour' there is a problem..
Precisely.
Either our government radically changes it's policy on recruiting and training for healthcare and science ect, or we'll be relying on non-UK nationals for more than 3 years."The scary part is this is not some forecast for when we leave in a couple of years. This is now. EU nursing applicant levels have dropped and we haven't even triggered a50 yet. The training and recruiting needed to have started 3-5 years ago. Instead we had Hunt being a twat and pissing everyone off instead of working with them to come up with a plan for trying to do more with less. -Matt | |||
"The BMA needs to admit to itself that, because of 21st century medical technology fully-qualified SRNs are no longer as necessary as they used to be. A phlebotomist can qualify in 4-8 months and also be an HCA. They can put cannulae in. A pharmacy assistant can hand out tablets from a trolley after a 12 month course, and also be an HCA. The cost of SRN training in this country also needs to be addressed, and reduced." Nursing is now a degree course and more than handing out drugs from the trolley and putting in a cannula. We're short of GPs and junior doctors in some areas, which is one of the reasons nursing changed to take on more responsibilities. Specialist nurses are like hens teeth. Hospitals already have to use agency staff to fill nursing vacancies and fewer nurses overall won't make that any easier. | |||
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"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Why bother responding then? I mean, what is the point in just blatently flaunting your ignorance other than to troll?
-Matt"You suggested a problem and I put forward a solution. If the situation were to become serious the government would have no option but to train more nurses. Investing in training combined with a detailed review of how NHS money is spent should be deemed to be an acceptable solution. Out of curiousity , what is your solution. ? Are you saying that it is wrong to train more nurses ? | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Why bother responding then? I mean, what is the point in just blatently flaunting your ignorance other than to troll?
-Matt You suggested a problem and I put forward a solution. If the situation were to become serious the government would have no option but to train more nurses.
Investing in training combined with a detailed review of how NHS money is spent should be deemed to be an acceptable solution.
Out of curiousity , what is your solution. ? Are you saying that it is wrong to train more nurses ? "refer to the previous post and that more than shows the flaws in your proposed solution | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Only a person with no clue whatsoever about the needs of the NHS, training resources and funding could come up with a statement like that.
A bit like the guy who says we just need to spend more money that we haven't got and allocate all the resources that we haven't got. Not my problem, I don't care, but that is what should be done."A rather strange response to a proposed solution. Most people I am sure would support training more nurses if that was considered necessary. ? Who has said that we do not have the money and why would the government not supply it in order to resolve the issue ?. Do you ever discuss these issues with nurses ? | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Why bother responding then? I mean, what is the point in just blatently flaunting your ignorance other than to troll?
-Matt You suggested a problem and I put forward a solution. If the situation were to become serious the government would have no option but to train more nurses.
Investing in training combined with a detailed review of how NHS money is spent should be deemed to be an acceptable solution.
Out of curiousity , what is your solution. ? Are you saying that it is wrong to train more nurses ?
refer to the previous post and that more than shows the flaws in your proposed solution"However I am sure the government would provide the fundung if it was necessary to resolve a problem. | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Why bother responding then? I mean, what is the point in just blatently flaunting your ignorance other than to troll?
-Matt You suggested a problem and I put forward a solution. If the situation were to become serious the government would have no option but to train more nurses.
Investing in training combined with a detailed review of how NHS money is spent should be deemed to be an acceptable solution.
Out of curiousity , what is your solution. ? Are you saying that it is wrong to train more nurses ? "So why has the government been training fewer nurses then? | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Why bother responding then? I mean, what is the point in just blatently flaunting your ignorance other than to troll?
-Matt You suggested a problem and I put forward a solution. If the situation were to become serious the government would have no option but to train more nurses.
Investing in training combined with a detailed review of how NHS money is spent should be deemed to be an acceptable solution.
Out of curiousity , what is your solution. ? Are you saying that it is wrong to train more nurses ?
refer to the previous post and that more than shows the flaws in your proposed solution However I am sure the government would provide the fundung if it was necessary to resolve a problem. "
Alrighty then. | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Only a person with no clue whatsoever about the needs of the NHS, training resources and funding could come up with a statement like that.
A bit like the guy who says we just need to spend more money that we haven't got and allocate all the resources that we haven't got. Not my problem, I don't care, but that is what should be done. A rather strange response to a proposed solution. Most people I am sure would support training more nurses if that was considered necessary. ? Who has said that we do not have the money and why would the government not supply it in order to resolve the issue ?.
Do you ever discuss these issues with nurses ? "pat .... the government have scrapped student nurse bursaries in the last few months .... so basically, in a nutshell, the tory party have taken away the money that used to fund nursing training | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Why bother responding then? I mean, what is the point in just blatently flaunting your ignorance other than to troll?
-Matt"Some people view ignorance as a strength. They dont read information and ignore anything that looks complex. That way every situation comes with an easy fix, which is great because those problems probably wont effect them any way. The nursing problem is obviously a big issue right now. And the actions of the Tories since Brexit have only made it worse. Any one taking an objective look at the situation would say that the nursing situation was obvious (indeed it was pointed out pre brexit) and that the tories have no semblance of a plan which is why theyve made it worse. | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Only a person with no clue whatsoever about the needs of the NHS, training resources and funding could come up with a statement like that.
A bit like the guy who says we just need to spend more money that we haven't got and allocate all the resources that we haven't got. Not my problem, I don't care, but that is what should be done. A rather strange response to a proposed solution. Most people I am sure would support training more nurses if that was considered necessary. ? Who has said that we do not have the money and why would the government not supply it in order to resolve the issue ?.
Do you ever discuss these issues with nurses ?
pat .... the government have scrapped student nurse bursaries in the last few months .... so basically, in a nutshell, the tory party have taken away the money that used to fund nursing training"Which means that more students can now be trained to be nurses | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Only a person with no clue whatsoever about the needs of the NHS, training resources and funding could come up with a statement like that.
A bit like the guy who says we just need to spend more money that we haven't got and allocate all the resources that we haven't got. Not my problem, I don't care, but that is what should be done."At least I went one step further than you and suggested a solution . If you want to know how it would be funded , there would be a rigorous crackdown on health tourism and we probably need to charge for Doctors visits . The BMA are a very powerfull organisation and we need to assess if all their demands are reasonable . Utilisation of labour within the NHS probably needs a detailed review and we need to assess if some of the work by Doctors could be undertaken by nurses . We could raise extra taxes by charging a turnover tax on any private individual or company without retail premises who sell goods on ebay . These individuals are currently competing unfairly against established businnesses . | |||
" pat .... the government have scrapped student nurse bursaries in the last few months .... so basically, in a nutshell, the tory party have taken away the money that used to fund nursing training Which means that more students can now be trained to be nurses"  | |||
" pat .... the government have scrapped student nurse bursaries in the last few months .... so basically, in a nutshell, the tory party have taken away the money that used to fund nursing training Which means that more students can now be trained to be nurses "Bursaries limit the number | |||
" pat .... the government have scrapped student nurse bursaries in the last few months .... so basically, in a nutshell, the tory party have taken away the money that used to fund nursing training Which means that more students can now be trained to be nurses
Bursaries limit the number"how? | |||
" pat .... the government have scrapped student nurse bursaries in the last few months .... so basically, in a nutshell, the tory party have taken away the money that used to fund nursing training Which means that more students can now be trained to be nurses
Bursaries limit the number
how?
"Because there are only so many places. Applications for nursing training places are vastly oversubscribed and a lot are turned away. An affordable student loan system would allow more applicants into the system | |||
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" pat .... the government have scrapped student nurse bursaries in the last few months .... so basically, in a nutshell, the tory party have taken away the money that used to fund nursing training Which means that more students can now be trained to be nurses
Bursaries limit the number
how?
Because there are only so many places. Applications for nursing training places are vastly oversubscribed and a lot are turned away. An affordable student loan system would allow more applicants into the system"23% drop in applications since the bursaries were replaced by the student loan system.. and their is a shortage of nurses now.. | |||
"I'm sick of hearing about the NHS. Fact is its shit, unless you have an accident or its too late. We have the same level of health care as the USA in reality, as someone with no healthcare there. Its a myth you're left to die on the road, the only drawback would be if you had money and stupid enough not to have insurance, they'd take it off you. Obamacare has actually caused a lot of people to lose healthcare due to insurance companies having to take on people with life threatening diseases, often subsidised by the state. So premiums have skyrocketed. The government has no money only what it takes and if you refuse they put you in prison, but there is a way you can help you can make voluntary NI contributions at any time, so go ahead, it'll still be shit. My two pennith I think rather than carrying on, make NHS emergency and life threatening only the rest you get private insurance for. Also promote preventative bit like an MOT to reduce premiums. If you think I'm heartless i know people younger than me costing the NHS a fortune and make no effort to improve their health in fact they treat it like a lottery win, free housing, benefits and drugs. As a d*unk said to me the pills he takes keeps him alive, the drink make it worth living, I'd rather give him the vodka and wait for nature to take it course." help yourself to a couple of bottles while you're at it | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
all fine but nurse applications since Osborne removed the bursaries has dropped by 23%..
there are about 24,000 vacancies at present, factor in that according to the RCN by 2020 half the current workforce will be eligible for retirement..
it also takes a minimum of 3 years to train so yes you could say that whatever ones view of immigration and 'imported labour' there is a problem..
"It would appear that the intention of the government was to create 10,000 new training places over the course of Parliament . | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
all fine but nurse applications since Osborne removed the bursaries has dropped by 23%..
there are about 24,000 vacancies at present, factor in that according to the RCN by 2020 half the current workforce will be eligible for retirement..
it also takes a minimum of 3 years to train so yes you could say that whatever ones view of immigration and 'imported labour' there is a problem..
It would appear that the intention of the government was to create 10,000 new training places over the course of Parliament . "well that went well didn't it | |||
"I'm sick of hearing about the NHS. Fact is its shit, unless you have an accident or its too late. We have the same level of health care as the USA in reality, as someone with no healthcare there. Its a myth you're left to die on the road, the only drawback would be if you had money and stupid enough not to have insurance, they'd take it off you. Obamacare has actually caused a lot of people to lose healthcare due to insurance companies having to take on people with life threatening diseases, often subsidised by the state. So premiums have skyrocketed. The government has no money only what it takes and if you refuse they put you in prison, but there is a way you can help you can make voluntary NI contributions at any time, so go ahead, it'll still be shit. My two pennith I think rather than carrying on, make NHS emergency and life threatening only the rest you get private insurance for. Also promote preventative bit like an MOT to reduce premiums. If you think I'm heartless i know people younger than me costing the NHS a fortune and make no effort to improve their health in fact they treat it like a lottery win, free housing, benefits and drugs. As a d*unk said to me the pills he takes keeps him alive, the drink make it worth living, I'd rather give him the vodka and wait for nature to take it course." Making it life threatening or emergency only has 2 major drawbacks though. 1. It can actually cost more because rather than it costing a hundred to get something sorted right away, waiting and letting it get worse leaves the NHS on the hook for possibly tens of thousands depending on the issue. 2. It creates secondary problems like a cost to the economy for increased sick days, increased mental issues, as well as increased family and social problems. The very, very few that treat themselves that badly and the NHS like a "lottery win" aren't representative of the majority and make up a negligible amount of the NHS budget even if their individual cases seem extreme. You cant cut off medical services to millions who need it because of what some d*unk guy told you. | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Problem is, funding to NHS nursing courses have been cut - and there bursaries have been cut.
Basically the training of nurses in this country is been hacked at from two ends. Funding limiting training spaces available, and funding for bursaries which deters kids from working class and less affluent backgrounds from going into it.
It might sound simple. Train more british nationals, but with brexit and the gov less willing to splash around money till we weather any potential storm, then NHS training will probably remain at its current flat line.
Hopefully if less nurses are coming from the EU, we are also having less of benefit suckng scroungers as well, but I doubt it!."I'm sorry to inform you but most of those so called benefit sucking scrounges are born and bread British people. But don't worry, when we leave the EU we'll get just as many immigrants as now but they will probably be from India and the Caribbean rather than Europe so a lot easier to identify and subsequently blame for all the problems which then, as now, will actually be totally of our own making. | |||
"you're misinformed ... as per" The reason we are having this conversation tells you I am not and that the bursary system wasn't working | |||
" pat .... the government have scrapped student nurse bursaries in the last few months .... so basically, in a nutshell, the tory party have taken away the money that used to fund nursing training Which means that more students can now be trained to be nurses
Bursaries limit the number
how?
Because there are only so many places. Applications for nursing training places are vastly oversubscribed and a lot are turned away. An affordable student loan system would allow more applicants into the system
23% drop in applications since the bursaries were replaced by the student loan system..
and their is a shortage of nurses now..
"With a 23% drop that would still mean about 20,000 turned down under the bursary system. Now under the new system more nurses will be trained | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Only a person with no clue whatsoever about the needs of the NHS, training resources and funding could come up with a statement like that.
A bit like the guy who says we just need to spend more money that we haven't got and allocate all the resources that we haven't got. Not my problem, I don't care, but that is what should be done. At least I went one step further than you and suggested a solution . If you want to know how it would be funded , there would be a rigorous crackdown on health tourism and we probably need to charge for Doctors visits .
The BMA are a very powerfull organisation and we need to assess if all their demands are reasonable . Utilisation of labour within the NHS probably needs a detailed review and we need to assess if some of the work by Doctors could be undertaken by nurses .
We could raise extra taxes by charging a turnover tax on any private individual or company without retail premises who sell goods on ebay . These individuals are currently competing unfairly against established businnesses ."A solution? A solution to what? You didn't even read the article?! Maybe that is why your solution to the RCN's reported "staffing crisis like never before" the drop in nursing applicants and the disenfranchisement of EU national nurses in the NHS is to tax my wife when she sells her high heels she no longer wears on eBay. -Matt | |||
"I'm sick of hearing about the NHS. Fact is its shit, unless you have an accident or its too late. We have the same level of health care as the USA in reality, as someone with no healthcare there. Its a myth you're left to die on the road, the only drawback would be if you had money and stupid enough not to have insurance, they'd take it off you. Obamacare has actually caused a lot of people to lose healthcare due to insurance companies having to take on people with life threatening diseases, often subsidised by the state. So premiums have skyrocketed. The government has no money only what it takes and if you refuse they put you in prison, but there is a way you can help you can make voluntary NI contributions at any time, so go ahead, it'll still be shit. My two pennith I think rather than carrying on, make NHS emergency and life threatening only the rest you get private insurance for. Also promote preventative bit like an MOT to reduce premiums. If you think I'm heartless i know people younger than me costing the NHS a fortune and make no effort to improve their health in fact they treat it like a lottery win, free housing, benefits and drugs. As a d*unk said to me the pills he takes keeps him alive, the drink make it worth living, I'd rather give him the vodka and wait for nature to take it course." Thats the spirit! Kill off the disabled and those with life threatening diseases and soon you will have your Master Race! Heil May! -Matt | |||
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" pat .... the government have scrapped student nurse bursaries in the last few months .... so basically, in a nutshell, the tory party have taken away the money that used to fund nursing training Which means that more students can now be trained to be nurses
Bursaries limit the number
how?
Because there are only so many places. Applications for nursing training places are vastly oversubscribed and a lot are turned away. An affordable student loan system would allow more applicants into the system
23% drop in applications since the bursaries were replaced by the student loan system..
and their is a shortage of nurses now..
With a 23% drop that would still mean about 20,000 turned down under the bursary system. Now under the new system more nurses will be trained"how many more will be trained? how many were turned down until now due to over capacity? where's your figures to back this up? you're mis-informed .... as per | |||
"you're misinformed ... as per The reason we are having this conversation tells you I am not and that the bursary system wasn't working" how was the bursary system "not working"? | |||
" pat .... the government have scrapped student nurse bursaries in the last few months .... so basically, in a nutshell, the tory party have taken away the money that used to fund nursing training Which means that more students can now be trained to be nurses
Bursaries limit the number
how?
Because there are only so many places. Applications for nursing training places are vastly oversubscribed and a lot are turned away. An affordable student loan system would allow more applicants into the system
23% drop in applications since the bursaries were replaced by the student loan system..
and their is a shortage of nurses now..
With a 23% drop that would still mean about 20,000 turned down under the bursary system. Now under the new system more nurses will be trained
how many more will be trained? how many were turned down until now due to over capacity? where's your figures to back this up?
you're mis-informed .... as per"Just check the figures out yourself, jeez it aint rocket science. And if there were enough being trained under that system then like I said, why are we having this conversation? There wouldn't be a shortage of British nurses would there?  | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Only a person with no clue whatsoever about the needs of the NHS, training resources and funding could come up with a statement like that.
A bit like the guy who says we just need to spend more money that we haven't got and allocate all the resources that we haven't got. Not my problem, I don't care, but that is what should be done. At least I went one step further than you and suggested a solution . If you want to know how it would be funded , there would be a rigorous crackdown on health tourism and we probably need to charge for Doctors visits .
The BMA are a very powerfull organisation and we need to assess if all their demands are reasonable . Utilisation of labour within the NHS probably needs a detailed review and we need to assess if some of the work by Doctors could be undertaken by nurses .
We could raise extra taxes by charging a turnover tax on any private individual or company without retail premises who sell goods on ebay . These individuals are currently competing unfairly against established businnesses .
A solution? A solution to what? You didn't even read the article?!
Maybe that is why your solution to the RCN's reported "staffing crisis like never before" the drop in nursing applicants and the disenfranchisement of EU national nurses in the NHS is to tax my wife when she sells her high heels she no longer wears on eBay.
-Matt"What is wrong with this solution..? If the shortage of nurses is a problem , it seems a reasonable solution to train extra nurses and fund it from additional taxes by investigating areas which are currently untaxed. It might create a more level playing field . At one plumbers merchant which I used to use , some customers would use the show room to inspect goods and then make an online purchase elsewhere . By tapping into ebay we could make major players with existing premises exempt and ensure everyone else pays up. From tbe tone of your reply it would appear rhat you are not too keen on paying extra taxes in order to provide addition funding ( assuming that was necessary ) | |||
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"so you don't have figures and that shows what you said is completely baseless ... pointless you carrying on then innit" Duh. Whatever | |||
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"One point that people seem to be missing is that, irrespective of whether funding for training is in place or not, people need to be attracted to nursing in the first place. Most young girls (and it is mostly girls in nursing) would rather be on X Factor telling the world how they're trying to support the 3 kids they had before the age of 18 or emulate Katie Price. There is no incentive for them to work long hours for shit pay when they all believe they're going to be the worlds first glamour model with a muffin top or in the next big girl band despite the fact they can't sing for toffee. Actually working for a living is anathema for a large percentage of youngsters today and, lets face it, working would seriously get in the way of their Snapchat time." This generation is a disaster. With their loud music, weird fashion and long hair. All the girls want to be the next Cilla Black and think their going to marry one of the Beatles. What happened to wholesome music like Gene Autrey? They dont know how lucky they are. In my day we were fighting nazis in Germany at 12 and the Japanese in the Pacific at 14. They have everything handed to them, they dont know about rationing and air raids! Thats you. Thats how you sound. Are you aware you're an out dated stereotype? That you sound that ridiculous? Heres a quote for you: "The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise." That was from Socrates who was born nearly 2,500 years ago. Making the same complaints youre making about todays youth not living up to your standards. | |||
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"One point that people seem to be missing is that, irrespective of whether funding for training is in place or not, people need to be attracted to nursing in the first place. Most young girls (and it is mostly girls in nursing) would rather be on X Factor telling the world how they're trying to support the 3 kids they had before the age of 18 or emulate Katie Price. There is no incentive for them to work long hours for shit pay when they all believe they're going to be the worlds first glamour model with a muffin top or in the next big girl band despite the fact they can't sing for toffee. Actually working for a living is anathema for a large percentage of youngsters today and, lets face it, working would seriously get in the way of their Snapchat time. This generation is a disaster. With their loud music, weird fashion and long hair. All the girls want to be the next Cilla Black and think their going to marry one of the Beatles. What happened to wholesome music like Gene Autrey? They dont know how lucky they are. In my day we were fighting nazis in Germany at 12 and the Japanese in the Pacific at 14. They have everything handed to them, they dont know about rationing and air raids! Thats you. Thats how you sound. Are you aware you're an out dated stereotype? That you sound that ridiculous? Heres a quote for you: "The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise." That was from Socrates who was born nearly 2,500 years ago. Making the same complaints youre making about todays youth not living up to your standards." I too have had the dubious pleasure of trying to employ young people and have had the opportunity to offer reasonably paid jobs requiring a degree of hard work and a basic, and I mean basic, understanding of maths and English. Talk about hitting your head off a brick wall? I'm full aware that plenty of young people contribute hugely to society but there is a fairly sizeable chunk that are just not interested in self-improvement unless its handed to them on a plate. At least wen I lft skool I dnt rit everyfing in txt spk m8. Sadly this now appears more and more commonly on CV's Soon as I see this, it's in the bin. | |||
"One point that people seem to be missing is that, irrespective of whether funding for training is in place or not, people need to be attracted to nursing in the first place. Most young girls (and it is mostly girls in nursing) would rather be on X Factor telling the world how they're trying to support the 3 kids they had before the age of 18 or emulate Katie Price. There is no incentive for them to work long hours for shit pay when they all believe they're going to be the worlds first glamour model with a muffin top or in the next big girl band despite the fact they can't sing for toffee. Actually working for a living is anathema for a large percentage of youngsters today and, lets face it, working would seriously get in the way of their Snapchat time. This generation is a disaster. With their loud music, weird fashion and long hair. All the girls want to be the next Cilla Black and think their going to marry one of the Beatles. What happened to wholesome music like Gene Autrey? They dont know how lucky they are. In my day we were fighting nazis in Germany at 12 and the Japanese in the Pacific at 14. They have everything handed to them, they dont know about rationing and air raids! Thats you. Thats how you sound. Are you aware you're an out dated stereotype? That you sound that ridiculous? Heres a quote for you: "The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise." That was from Socrates who was born nearly 2,500 years ago. Making the same complaints youre making about todays youth not living up to your standards. I too have had the dubious pleasure of trying to employ young people and have had the opportunity to offer reasonably paid jobs requiring a degree of hard work and a basic, and I mean basic, understanding of maths and English. Talk about hitting your head off a brick wall? I'm full aware that plenty of young people contribute hugely to society but there is a fairly sizeable chunk that are just not interested in self-improvement unless its handed to them on a plate. At least wen I lft skool I dnt rit everyfing in txt spk m8. Sadly this now appears more and more commonly on CV's Soon as I see this, it's in the bin." come on, give them a break, we were all young once, I remember my youth so well, days of punk, strangl**s clash, pistols, off to gigs, underage drinking, a fantastic time. 30+ years later I have earned the right to take early retirement at the age of 52 sometimes you have to give kids a chance . what does piss me off is when people consider mobile phones, sky satellite tv and other things as essential, where as if they went without they could have good private health insurance and pay into a good pension, and in turn they, could be like myself and enjoy retirement at an age when you can enjoy it. But no, mobile phones, sky tv, pc gaming and other things that cost £50+ a month are more essential | |||
"One point that people seem to be missing is that, irrespective of whether funding for training is in place or not, people need to be attracted to nursing in the first place. Most young girls (and it is mostly girls in nursing) would rather be on X Factor telling the world how they're trying to support the 3 kids they had before the age of 18 or emulate Katie Price. There is no incentive for them to work long hours for shit pay when they all believe they're going to be the worlds first glamour model with a muffin top or in the next big girl band despite the fact they can't sing for toffee. Actually working for a living is anathema for a large percentage of youngsters today and, lets face it, working would seriously get in the way of their Snapchat time. This generation is a disaster. With their loud music, weird fashion and long hair. All the girls want to be the next Cilla Black and think their going to marry one of the Beatles. What happened to wholesome music like Gene Autrey? They dont know how lucky they are. In my day we were fighting nazis in Germany at 12 and the Japanese in the Pacific at 14. They have everything handed to them, they dont know about rationing and air raids! Thats you. Thats how you sound. Are you aware you're an out dated stereotype? That you sound that ridiculous? Heres a quote for you: "The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise." That was from Socrates who was born nearly 2,500 years ago. Making the same complaints youre making about todays youth not living up to your standards. I too have had the dubious pleasure of trying to employ young people and have had the opportunity to offer reasonably paid jobs requiring a degree of hard work and a basic, and I mean basic, understanding of maths and English. Talk about hitting your head off a brick wall? I'm full aware that plenty of young people contribute hugely to society but there is a fairly sizeable chunk that are just not interested in self-improvement unless its handed to them on a plate. At least wen I lft skool I dnt rit everyfing in txt spk m8. Sadly this now appears more and more commonly on CV's Soon as I see this, it's in the bin." See this is why anectdotal evidence doesnt matter, it gives a skewed view that doesnt match reality. Youre offering a job that requires basic math and english, people generally want jobs that stretch them at least a little, thats a bit interesting or challenging. So any job being offered is going to get people applying who are in and around that skill level. So youre going to get people who arent going to do any better than what youre offering. If you want a higher standard of employee then you need to offer more to get those people applying. Its not their fault that good employees can do better. | |||
"One point that people seem to be missing is that, irrespective of whether funding for training is in place or not, people need to be attracted to nursing in the first place. Most young girls (and it is mostly girls in nursing) would rather be on X Factor telling the world how they're trying to support the 3 kids they had before the age of 18 or emulate Katie Price. There is no incentive for them to work long hours for shit pay when they all believe they're going to be the worlds first glamour model with a muffin top or in the next big girl band despite the fact they can't sing for toffee. Actually working for a living is anathema for a large percentage of youngsters today and, lets face it, working would seriously get in the way of their Snapchat time. This generation is a disaster. With their loud music, weird fashion and long hair. All the girls want to be the next Cilla Black and think their going to marry one of the Beatles. What happened to wholesome music like Gene Autrey? They dont know how lucky they are. In my day we were fighting nazis in Germany at 12 and the Japanese in the Pacific at 14. They have everything handed to them, they dont know about rationing and air raids! Thats you. Thats how you sound. Are you aware you're an out dated stereotype? That you sound that ridiculous? Heres a quote for you: "The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise." That was from Socrates who was born nearly 2,500 years ago. Making the same complaints youre making about todays youth not living up to your standards. I too have had the dubious pleasure of trying to employ young people and have had the opportunity to offer reasonably paid jobs requiring a degree of hard work and a basic, and I mean basic, understanding of maths and English. Talk about hitting your head off a brick wall? I'm full aware that plenty of young people contribute hugely to society but there is a fairly sizeable chunk that are just not interested in self-improvement unless its handed to them on a plate. At least wen I lft skool I dnt rit everyfing in txt spk m8. Sadly this now appears more and more commonly on CV's Soon as I see this, it's in the bin. come on, give them a break, we were all young once, I remember my youth so well, days of punk, strangl**s clash, pistols, off to gigs, underage drinking, a fantastic time. 30+ years later I have earned the right to take early retirement at the age of 52 sometimes you have to give kids a chance . what does piss me off is when people consider mobile phones, sky satellite tv and other things as essential, where as if they went without they could have good private health insurance and pay into a good pension, and in turn they, could be like myself and enjoy retirement at an age when you can enjoy it. But no, mobile phones, sky tv, pc gaming and other things that cost £50+ a month are more essential " But youre assuming that early retirement is everyones goal. Its great if that was yours and you pulled it off but as much as most people like to bitch about work if you give them a month off for any reason they'll be itching to get back. And honestly the value people get from their phone is crazy. If you ever read Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy you're actually holding something far better in your hand. | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Only a person with no clue whatsoever about the needs of the NHS, training resources and funding could come up with a statement like that.
A bit like the guy who says we just need to spend more money that we haven't got and allocate all the resources that we haven't got. Not my problem, I don't care, but that is what should be done. At least I went one step further than you and suggested a solution . If you want to know how it would be funded , there would be a rigorous crackdown on health tourism and we probably need to charge for Doctors visits .
The BMA are a very powerfull organisation and we need to assess if all their demands are reasonable . Utilisation of labour within the NHS probably needs a detailed review and we need to assess if some of the work by Doctors could be undertaken by nurses .
We could raise extra taxes by charging a turnover tax on any private individual or company without retail premises who sell goods on ebay . These individuals are currently competing unfairly against established businnesses .
A solution? A solution to what? You didn't even read the article?!
Maybe that is why your solution to the RCN's reported "staffing crisis like never before" the drop in nursing applicants and the disenfranchisement of EU national nurses in the NHS is to tax my wife when she sells her high heels she no longer wears on eBay.
-Matt What is wrong with this solution..? If the shortage of nurses is a problem , it seems a reasonable solution to train extra nurses and fund it from additional taxes by investigating areas which are currently untaxed. It might create a more level playing field . At one plumbers merchant which I used to use , some customers would use the show room to inspect goods and then make an online purchase elsewhere . By tapping into ebay we could make major players with existing premises exempt and ensure everyone else pays up.
From tbe tone of your reply it would appear rhat you are not too keen on paying extra taxes in order to provide addition funding ( assuming that was necessary ) "Pat, no, I'm perfectly fine with finding (and paying for) additional funding revenue. I just take exception to your willful ignorance. If the answer was as simple as "Just train more nurses" then why have we not done that? Why did we not do that years ago? According to the article above, which you did not read, it states: "Meanwhile, one in three nurses is due to retire in the next 10 years and there are 24,000 nurse jobs unfilled, RCN figures show.". So this is not something that should have been a surprise, this is entirely predictable. And yet our government is hell bent on pissing off our health workers. No wonder so many of them are deciding to fuck off elsewhere. On one hand we have someone on this thread saying that nursing training places at the moment are already massively oversubscribed, and then we have the RCN saying they have 24,000 jobs un-fulfilled. So clearly the problem must be a little more nuanced than just 'train more nurses'. And, what shall we do for the next few years whilst we wait for these people to be trained up (assuming they want to, assuming training is provided and funded, etc)? -Matt | |||
"And honestly the value people get from their phone is crazy. If you ever read Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy you're actually holding something far better in your hand." i only have one incase the Vogons show up | |||
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"And honestly the value people get from their phone is crazy. If you ever read Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy you're actually holding something far better in your hand. i only have one incase the Vogons show up " I just keep an eye on the local planning permissions just in case | |||
" Pat, no, I'm perfectly fine with finding (and paying for) additional funding revenue. I just take exception to your willful ignorance. If the answer was as simple as "Just train more nurses" then why have we not done that? Why did we not do that years ago? According to the article above, which you did not read, it states: "Meanwhile, one in three nurses is due to retire in the next 10 years and there are 24,000 nurse jobs unfilled, RCN figures show.". So this is not something that should have been a surprise, this is entirely predictable. And yet our government is hell bent on pissing off our health workers. No wonder so many of them are deciding to fuck off elsewhere. On one hand we have someone on this thread saying that nursing training places at the moment are already massively oversubscribed, and then we have the RCN saying they have 24,000 jobs un-fulfilled. So clearly the problem must be a little more nuanced than just 'train more nurses'. And, what shall we do for the next few years whilst we wait for these people to be trained up (assuming they want to, assuming training is provided and funded, etc)? -Matt" If you take exception to Pats wilful ignorance youre in trouble as you wont see much else from him. He doesnt listen to anyone who posts here because we're just ordinary people, he doesnt listen to experts because they dont know anything and he wont read any links with evidence because we only post them because actual facts back up our views. Basically if you havent a soft spot for paedophiles Pat isnt interested in what you have to say. There is actually an easy (partial) fix for this, but the government wont take it. May could come out and say that qualified nurses will be given preferential treatment for visas to stay in the country and allay the fears they have. But thats an admission that Brexit is a bad idea because the UK needs immigration. | |||
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"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
all fine but nurse applications since Osborne removed the bursaries has dropped by 23%..
there are about 24,000 vacancies at present, factor in that according to the RCN by 2020 half the current workforce will be eligible for retirement..
it also takes a minimum of 3 years to train so yes you could say that whatever ones view of immigration and 'imported labour' there is a problem..
It would appear that the intention of the government was to create 10,000 new training places over the course of Parliament . "Don't believe the hype.. They are far away from achieving it.. Is this the same government who since 2010 have failed to curb immigration which was also their ' intention' .. | |||
"People cannot afford to train as nurses anymore .. when I trained many moons ago ....we were salaried and lived in cheap nurses accommodation ....thus appealing to youngster's .... there were loads of us .....the training was hands on .... now its all diplomas and university's .... and not always a job at the end .....such a shame ..... the best days have gone " Mrs Surrey who qualified in 81 agrees fully, get them back on the wards on a salary so they are both learning and hands on.. So simple you would think that the government must be on another planet to not see it.. | |||
"People cannot afford to train as nurses anymore .. when I trained many moons ago ....we were salaried and lived in cheap nurses accommodation ....thus appealing to youngster's .... there were loads of us .....the training was hands on .... now its all diplomas and university's .... and not always a job at the end .....such a shame ..... the best days have gone " . Heaven knows how we got the money years ago for all this stuff we can no longer afford I mean we used to have free dental, glasses, university places, schools trips, school lunches, prescriptions, local dump would take anything, we had to run our own services like gas water telecoms build our own generating plants maintain our own council housing, run huge blocks of accommodation for the mentally ill. Its like a whole section of society have just stopped paying their taxes or summit | |||
" Pat, no, I'm perfectly fine with finding (and paying for) additional funding revenue. I just take exception to your willful ignorance. If the answer was as simple as "Just train more nurses" then why have we not done that? Why did we not do that years ago? According to the article above, which you did not read, it states: "Meanwhile, one in three nurses is due to retire in the next 10 years and there are 24,000 nurse jobs unfilled, RCN figures show.". So this is not something that should have been a surprise, this is entirely predictable. And yet our government is hell bent on pissing off our health workers. No wonder so many of them are deciding to fuck off elsewhere. On one hand we have someone on this thread saying that nursing training places at the moment are already massively oversubscribed, and then we have the RCN saying they have 24,000 jobs un-fulfilled. So clearly the problem must be a little more nuanced than just 'train more nurses'. And, what shall we do for the next few years whilst we wait for these people to be trained up (assuming they want to, assuming training is provided and funded, etc)? -Matt If you take exception to Pats wilful ignorance youre in trouble as you wont see much else from him. He doesnt listen to anyone who posts here because we're just ordinary people, he doesnt listen to experts because they dont know anything and he wont read any links with evidence because we only post them because actual facts back up our views. Basically if you havent a soft spot for paedophiles Pat isnt interested in what you have to say. There is actually an easy (partial) fix for this, but the government wont take it. May could come out and say that qualified nurses will be given preferential treatment for visas to stay in the country and allay the fears they have. But thats an admission that Brexit is a bad idea because the UK needs immigration." A rather strange post as you would have little idea as to how much research ( if any ) I had done on the health service and how it should be funded or the long term issues tackled . Any links posted here will general be biased towards a particular point and not impartial . If relevant I would prefer to do my own research . Lucily describing someone as ignorant is a reflection on the person describing someone as ignorant , not the recipient of the remark . I prefer to treat people with respect and believe that it has long benefits . We are lucky to have a very capable prime minister who will be able to resolve the issue eventually . A buoyant and successful economy will be able to resolve the issue | |||
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" Pat, no, I'm perfectly fine with finding (and paying for) additional funding revenue. I just take exception to your willful ignorance. If the answer was as simple as "Just train more nurses" then why have we not done that? Why did we not do that years ago? According to the article above, which you did not read, it states: "Meanwhile, one in three nurses is due to retire in the next 10 years and there are 24,000 nurse jobs unfilled, RCN figures show.". So this is not something that should have been a surprise, this is entirely predictable. And yet our government is hell bent on pissing off our health workers. No wonder so many of them are deciding to fuck off elsewhere. On one hand we have someone on this thread saying that nursing training places at the moment are already massively oversubscribed, and then we have the RCN saying they have 24,000 jobs un-fulfilled. So clearly the problem must be a little more nuanced than just 'train more nurses'. And, what shall we do for the next few years whilst we wait for these people to be trained up (assuming they want to, assuming training is provided and funded, etc)? -Matt If you take exception to Pats wilful ignorance youre in trouble as you wont see much else from him. He doesnt listen to anyone who posts here because we're just ordinary people, he doesnt listen to experts because they dont know anything and he wont read any links with evidence because we only post them because actual facts back up our views. Basically if you havent a soft spot for paedophiles Pat isnt interested in what you have to say. There is actually an easy (partial) fix for this, but the government wont take it. May could come out and say that qualified nurses will be given preferential treatment for visas to stay in the country and allay the fears they have. But thats an admission that Brexit is a bad idea because the UK needs immigration. A rather strange post as you would have little idea as to how much research ( if any ) I had done on the health service and how it should be funded or the long term issues tackled . Any links posted here will general be biased towards a particular point and not impartial . If relevant I would prefer to do my own research . Lucily describing someone as ignorant is a reflection on the person describing someone as ignorant , not the recipient of the remark . I prefer to treat people with respect and believe that it has long benefits . We are lucky to have a very capable prime minister who will be able to resolve the issue eventually . A buoyant and successful economy will be able to resolve the issue " The same PM who wanted to put a minimum wage cap on immigration. So we get skilled people in. The cap was above the nurses wage. Hoping to hear her privatisation plans. | |||
"might be a good thing, get well trained, educated & English speaking UK trained nurses to replace them One of the reasons I pay for private health care is due to poor NHS" Theyre leaving now and it takes 3 years to train a nurse.....you do the maths | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
all fine but nurse applications since Osborne removed the bursaries has dropped by 23%..
there are about 24,000 vacancies at present, factor in that according to the RCN by 2020 half the current workforce will be eligible for retirement..
it also takes a minimum of 3 years to train so yes you could say that whatever ones view of immigration and 'imported labour' there is a problem..
It would appear that the intention of the government was to create 10,000 new training places over the course of Parliament . "2700 EU nurses have left in the last 9 months..... | |||
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" Pat, no, I'm perfectly fine with finding (and paying for) additional funding revenue. I just take exception to your willful ignorance. If the answer was as simple as "Just train more nurses" then why have we not done that? Why did we not do that years ago? According to the article above, which you did not read, it states: "Meanwhile, one in three nurses is due to retire in the next 10 years and there are 24,000 nurse jobs unfilled, RCN figures show.". So this is not something that should have been a surprise, this is entirely predictable. And yet our government is hell bent on pissing off our health workers. No wonder so many of them are deciding to fuck off elsewhere. On one hand we have someone on this thread saying that nursing training places at the moment are already massively oversubscribed, and then we have the RCN saying they have 24,000 jobs un-fulfilled. So clearly the problem must be a little more nuanced than just 'train more nurses'. And, what shall we do for the next few years whilst we wait for these people to be trained up (assuming they want to, assuming training is provided and funded, etc)? -Matt If you take exception to Pats wilful ignorance youre in trouble as you wont see much else from him. He doesnt listen to anyone who posts here because we're just ordinary people, he doesnt listen to experts because they dont know anything and he wont read any links with evidence because we only post them because actual facts back up our views. Basically if you havent a soft spot for paedophiles Pat isnt interested in what you have to say. There is actually an easy (partial) fix for this, but the government wont take it. May could come out and say that qualified nurses will be given preferential treatment for visas to stay in the country and allay the fears they have. But thats an admission that Brexit is a bad idea because the UK needs immigration. A rather strange post as you would have little idea as to how much research ( if any ) I had done on the health service and how it should be funded or the long term issues tackled . Any links posted here will general be biased towards a particular point and not impartial . If relevant I would prefer to do my own research . Lucily describing someone as ignorant is a reflection on the person describing someone as ignorant , not the recipient of the remark . I prefer to treat people with respect and believe that it has long benefits . We are lucky to have a very capable prime minister who will be able to resolve the issue eventually . A buoyant and successful economy will be able to resolve the issue Why is it a strange view? You admitted you didn't read the link so have no idea what was in the article beyond the text of the link, yet then proposed a 'solution' to the article. How the fuck does that work in your mind? Seriously? I know I'm yelling at a brick wall here, so I'm going to stop as there are only two possible explanations: 1) You really are a complete fucking idiot 2) You are a troll just trying to wind people up -Matt" Its hard to tell to be honest. He finds the most basic questions too complex to deal with and he revels in his ignorance and then complains about being called ignorant. He disrespects everyone he discusses things with by deriding the basis of their opinions as biased without even glancing at them, then complains about being disrespected. It doesnt matter what the source of any information is. Once somebody posts it here he discounts it as biased. So if you have an array of undisputed facts that nobody argues with he'll still see it as biased because you posted it. Its a recurring thing with the right, what they feel about issues is more important than reality and they'll do whatever mental gymnastics it takes to shield themselves from being wrong. Ive been wrong before and Ill be wrong again, but I view it as a way to learn, the right views it as inconceivable and shifts the blame to someone else because they couldnt possibly be wrong. And even when you do explain things in terms a child would understand and they cant find fault with it they just ignore it and go on repeating their debunked views like Pat and his "devaluation of the pound doesnt affect the stock market values". I doubt he's a troll, you'd hope he had better things to do with his time. I just think he really doesnt understand these things and cant wrap his head around the complex (and not so complex) ideas here so he defaults to whatever his feelings tell him. Immigration is exclusively bad, Tory Prime Ministers always come good, unrepentent child abusers shouldnt have their kids taken away, EU is always bad, Trump is always good and Britain will always be a success because sheer grit and determination and English heart will always come through. Its why the England football team always wins | |||
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"Panorama tonight was interesting on the growing care crisis. " I'm sorry I have to tell you that there is no crisis.. The fairy God mother May has it all in hand.. | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Problem is, funding to NHS nursing courses have been cut - and there bursaries have been cut.
Basically the training of nurses in this country is been hacked at from two ends. Funding limiting training spaces available, and funding for bursaries which deters kids from working class and less affluent backgrounds from going into it.
It might sound simple. Train more british nationals, but with brexit and the gov less willing to splash around money till we weather any potential storm, then NHS training will probably remain at its current flat line.
Hopefully if less nurses are coming from the EU, we are also having less of benefit suckng scroungers as well, but I doubt it!.
They are not scroungers they are workers! Working in our NHS! "I never said the nurses were benefit sucking scroungers, but not everybody who turns up on our shores actually delivers any benefit to the UK. But plenty rock up here knowing that they will be accommodated fed water and given money to live off. Or is my years of experience working in social housing wrong | |||
" Pat, no, I'm perfectly fine with finding (and paying for) additional funding revenue. I just take exception to your willful ignorance. If the answer was as simple as "Just train more nurses" then why have we not done that? Why did we not do that years ago? According to the article above, which you did not read, it states: "Meanwhile, one in three nurses is due to retire in the next 10 years and there are 24,000 nurse jobs unfilled, RCN figures show.". So this is not something that should have been a surprise, this is entirely predictable. And yet our government is hell bent on pissing off our health workers. No wonder so many of them are deciding to fuck off elsewhere. On one hand we have someone on this thread saying that nursing training places at the moment are already massively oversubscribed, and then we have the RCN saying they have 24,000 jobs un-fulfilled. So clearly the problem must be a little more nuanced than just 'train more nurses'. And, what shall we do for the next few years whilst we wait for these people to be trained up (assuming they want to, assuming training is provided and funded, etc)? -Matt If you take exception to Pats wilful ignorance youre in trouble as you wont see much else from him. He doesnt listen to anyone who posts here because we're just ordinary people, he doesnt listen to experts because they dont know anything and he wont read any links with evidence because we only post them because actual facts back up our views. Basically if you havent a soft spot for paedophiles Pat isnt interested in what you have to say. There is actually an easy (partial) fix for this, but the government wont take it. May could come out and say that qualified nurses will be given preferential treatment for visas to stay in the country and allay the fears they have. But thats an admission that Brexit is a bad idea because the UK needs immigration. A rather strange post as you would have little idea as to how much research ( if any ) I had done on the health service and how it should be funded or the long term issues tackled . Any links posted here will general be biased towards a particular point and not impartial . If relevant I would prefer to do my own research . Lucily describing someone as ignorant is a reflection on the person describing someone as ignorant , not the recipient of the remark . I prefer to treat people with respect and believe that it has long benefits . We are lucky to have a very capable prime minister who will be able to resolve the issue eventually . A buoyant and successful economy will be able to resolve the issue Why is it a strange view? You admitted you didn't read the link so have no idea what was in the article beyond the text of the link, yet then proposed a 'solution' to the article. How the fuck does that work in your mind? Seriously? I know I'm yelling at a brick wall here, so I'm going to stop as there are only two possible explanations: 1) You really are a complete fucking idiot 2) You are a troll just trying to wind people up -Matt Its hard to tell to be honest. He finds the most basic questions too complex to deal with and he revels in his ignorance and then complains about being called ignorant. He disrespects everyone he discusses things with by deriding the basis of their opinions as biased without even glancing at them, then complains about being disrespected. It doesnt matter what the source of any information is. Once somebody posts it here he discounts it as biased. So if you have an array of undisputed facts that nobody argues with he'll still see it as biased because you posted it. Its a recurring thing with the right, what they feel about issues is more important than reality and they'll do whatever mental gymnastics it takes to shield themselves from being wrong. Ive been wrong before and Ill be wrong again, but I view it as a way to learn, the right views it as inconceivable and shifts the blame to someone else because they couldnt possibly be wrong. And even when you do explain things in terms a child would understand and they cant find fault with it they just ignore it and go on repeating their debunked views like Pat and his "devaluation of the pound doesnt affect the stock market values". I doubt he's a troll, you'd hope he had better things to do with his time. I just think he really doesnt understand these things and cant wrap his head around the complex (and not so complex) ideas here so he defaults to whatever his feelings tell him. Immigration is exclusively bad, Tory Prime Ministers always come good, unrepentent child abusers shouldnt have their kids taken away, EU is always bad, Trump is always good and Britain will always be a success because sheer grit and determination and English heart will always come through. Its why the England football team always wins "My shares are performing nicely thank you, and I look forward to the twice yearly dividends. | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
all fine but nurse applications since Osborne removed the bursaries has dropped by 23%..
there are about 24,000 vacancies at present, factor in that according to the RCN by 2020 half the current workforce will be eligible for retirement..
it also takes a minimum of 3 years to train so yes you could say that whatever ones view of immigration and 'imported labour' there is a problem..
It would appear that the intention of the government was to create 10,000 new training places over the course of Parliament .
2700 EU nurses have left in the last 9 months....."And how many have turned up in the last 9 months, is it a natural churn rate How many nurses have come from the rest of the world in the last 9 months, or is the earth flat between us and the continent and if we go any further we will fall off the edge | |||
"People cannot afford to train as nurses anymore .. when I trained many moons ago ....we were salaried and lived in cheap nurses accommodation ....thus appealing to youngster's .... there were loads of us .....the training was hands on .... now its all diplomas and university's .... and not always a job at the end .....such a shame ..... the best days have gone Mrs Surrey who qualified in 81 agrees fully, get them back on the wards on a salary so they are both learning and hands on.. So simple you would think that the government must be on another planet to not see it.. "As young guys in the early 80's we thought we had had struck gold if we dot an invite to a party at the nurses home mmmmm | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Problem is, funding to NHS nursing courses have been cut - and there bursaries have been cut.
Basically the training of nurses in this country is been hacked at from two ends. Funding limiting training spaces available, and funding for bursaries which deters kids from working class and less affluent backgrounds from going into it.
It might sound simple. Train more british nationals, but with brexit and the gov less willing to splash around money till we weather any potential storm, then NHS training will probably remain at its current flat line.
Hopefully if less nurses are coming from the EU, we are also having less of benefit suckng scroungers as well, but I doubt it!.
They are not scroungers they are workers! Working in our NHS!
I never said the nurses were benefit sucking scroungers, but not everybody who turns up on our shores actually delivers any benefit to the UK. But plenty rock up here knowing that they will be accommodated fed water and given money to live off. Or is my years of experience working in social housing wrong"this is just bullshit the overwhelming majority of people claiming benefits are British born a quick look at the stats would prove that | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Problem is, funding to NHS nursing courses have been cut - and there bursaries have been cut.
Basically the training of nurses in this country is been hacked at from two ends. Funding limiting training spaces available, and funding for bursaries which deters kids from working class and less affluent backgrounds from going into it.
It might sound simple. Train more british nationals, but with brexit and the gov less willing to splash around money till we weather any potential storm, then NHS training will probably remain at its current flat line.
Hopefully if less nurses are coming from the EU, we are also having less of benefit suckng scroungers as well, but I doubt it!.
They are not scroungers they are workers! Working in our NHS!
I never said the nurses were benefit sucking scroungers, but not everybody who turns up on our shores actually delivers any benefit to the UK. But plenty rock up here knowing that they will be accommodated fed water and given money to live off. Or is my years of experience working in social housing wrong"You work in social housing? So if an EU migrant rocks up on our shores then, are they entitled to a house? JSA? ESA? Housing benefit? etc. | |||
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"I'm sick of hearing about the NHS. Fact is its shit, unless you have an accident or its too late. We have the same level of health care as the USA in reality, as someone with no healthcare there. Its a myth you're left to die on the road, the only drawback would be if you had money and stupid enough not to have insurance, they'd take it off you. Obamacare has actually caused a lot of people to lose healthcare due to insurance companies having to take on people with life threatening diseases, often subsidised by the state. So premiums have skyrocketed. The government has no money only what it takes and if you refuse they put you in prison, but there is a way you can help you can make voluntary NI contributions at any time, so go ahead, it'll still be shit. My two pennith I think rather than carrying on, make NHS emergency and life threatening only the rest you get private insurance for. Also promote preventative bit like an MOT to reduce premiums. If you think I'm heartless i know people younger than me costing the NHS a fortune and make no effort to improve their health in fact they treat it like a lottery win, free housing, benefits and drugs. As a d*unk said to me the pills he takes keeps him alive, the drink make it worth living, I'd rather give him the vodka and wait for nature to take it course. Making it life threatening or emergency only has 2 major drawbacks though. 1. It can actually cost more because rather than it costing a hundred to get something sorted right away, waiting and letting it get worse leaves the NHS on the hook for possibly tens of thousands depending on the issue. 2. It creates secondary problems like a cost to the economy for increased sick days, increased mental issues, as well as increased family and social problems. The very, very few that treat themselves that badly and the NHS like a "lottery win" aren't representative of the majority and make up a negligible amount of the NHS budget even if their individual cases seem extreme. You cant cut off medical services to millions who need it because of what some d*unk guy told you." You're living in a fantasy world, fact is there are more malingerers than even Farage thinks and yes there are loads of work days lost. So if they are genuine worker they can afford healthcare insurance get treated and get back to work. |irony is that how the US system worked before Obama and guess what they did far better. | |||
"I'm sick of hearing about the NHS. Fact is its shit, unless you have an accident or its too late. We have the same level of health care as the USA in reality, as someone with no healthcare there. Its a myth you're left to die on the road, the only drawback would be if you had money and stupid enough not to have insurance, they'd take it off you. Obamacare has actually caused a lot of people to lose healthcare due to insurance companies having to take on people with life threatening diseases, often subsidised by the state. So premiums have skyrocketed. The government has no money only what it takes and if you refuse they put you in prison, but there is a way you can help you can make voluntary NI contributions at any time, so go ahead, it'll still be shit. My two pennith I think rather than carrying on, make NHS emergency and life threatening only the rest you get private insurance for. Also promote preventative bit like an MOT to reduce premiums. If you think I'm heartless i know people younger than me costing the NHS a fortune and make no effort to improve their health in fact they treat it like a lottery win, free housing, benefits and drugs. As a d*unk said to me the pills he takes keeps him alive, the drink make it worth living, I'd rather give him the vodka and wait for nature to take it course. Making it life threatening or emergency only has 2 major drawbacks though. 1. It can actually cost more because rather than it costing a hundred to get something sorted right away, waiting and letting it get worse leaves the NHS on the hook for possibly tens of thousands depending on the issue. 2. It creates secondary problems like a cost to the economy for increased sick days, increased mental issues, as well as increased family and social problems. The very, very few that treat themselves that badly and the NHS like a "lottery win" aren't representative of the majority and make up a negligible amount of the NHS budget even if their individual cases seem extreme. You cant cut off medical services to millions who need it because of what some d*unk guy told you. You're living in a fantasy world, fact is there are more malingerers than even Farage thinks and yes there are loads of work days lost. So if they are genuine worker they can afford healthcare insurance get treated and get back to work. |irony is that how the US system worked before Obama and guess what they did far better." Step away from the crack pipe.... | |||
"I'm sick of hearing about the NHS. Fact is its shit, unless you have an accident or its too late. We have the same level of health care as the USA in reality, as someone with no healthcare there. Its a myth you're left to die on the road, the only drawback would be if you had money and stupid enough not to have insurance, they'd take it off you. Obamacare has actually caused a lot of people to lose healthcare due to insurance companies having to take on people with life threatening diseases, often subsidised by the state. So premiums have skyrocketed. The government has no money only what it takes and if you refuse they put you in prison, but there is a way you can help you can make voluntary NI contributions at any time, so go ahead, it'll still be shit. My two pennith I think rather than carrying on, make NHS emergency and life threatening only the rest you get private insurance for. Also promote preventative bit like an MOT to reduce premiums. If you think I'm heartless i know people younger than me costing the NHS a fortune and make no effort to improve their health in fact they treat it like a lottery win, free housing, benefits and drugs. As a d*unk said to me the pills he takes keeps him alive, the drink make it worth living, I'd rather give him the vodka and wait for nature to take it course. help yourself to a couple of bottles while you're at it "Actually I know what I'm talking about and the reason before Obama USA had the medical system in the world period. If you had insurance and you were of working age you'd be fixed up in a jiffy, if you could be arsed to go to work you stayed sick. Hospitals made a profit and paid tax!! But if you couldn't be arsed and got run over the treat you but if you had no money they wrote it off against tax. | |||
"I'm sick of hearing about the NHS. Fact is its shit, unless you have an accident or its too late. We have the same level of health care as the USA in reality, as someone with no healthcare there. Its a myth you're left to die on the road, the only drawback would be if you had money and stupid enough not to have insurance, they'd take it off you. Obamacare has actually caused a lot of people to lose healthcare due to insurance companies having to take on people with life threatening diseases, often subsidised by the state. So premiums have skyrocketed. The government has no money only what it takes and if you refuse they put you in prison, but there is a way you can help you can make voluntary NI contributions at any time, so go ahead, it'll still be shit. My two pennith I think rather than carrying on, make NHS emergency and life threatening only the rest you get private insurance for. Also promote preventative bit like an MOT to reduce premiums. If you think I'm heartless i know people younger than me costing the NHS a fortune and make no effort to improve their health in fact they treat it like a lottery win, free housing, benefits and drugs. As a d*unk said to me the pills he takes keeps him alive, the drink make it worth living, I'd rather give him the vodka and wait for nature to take it course. Making it life threatening or emergency only has 2 major drawbacks though. 1. It can actually cost more because rather than it costing a hundred to get something sorted right away, waiting and letting it get worse leaves the NHS on the hook for possibly tens of thousands depending on the issue. 2. It creates secondary problems like a cost to the economy for increased sick days, increased mental issues, as well as increased family and social problems. The very, very few that treat themselves that badly and the NHS like a "lottery win" aren't representative of the majority and make up a negligible amount of the NHS budget even if their individual cases seem extreme. You cant cut off medical services to millions who need it because of what some d*unk guy told you. You're living in a fantasy world, fact is there are more malingerers than even Farage thinks and yes there are loads of work days lost. So if they are genuine worker they can afford healthcare insurance get treated and get back to work. |irony is that how the US system worked before Obama and guess what they did far better. Step away from the crack pipe...." No crack head would want me in charge of the NHS, I assume you're one | |||
"I'm sick of hearing about the NHS. Fact is its shit, unless you have an accident or its too late. We have the same level of health care as the USA in reality, as someone with no healthcare there. Its a myth you're left to die on the road, the only drawback would be if you had money and stupid enough not to have insurance, they'd take it off you. Obamacare has actually caused a lot of people to lose healthcare due to insurance companies having to take on people with life threatening diseases, often subsidised by the state. So premiums have skyrocketed. The government has no money only what it takes and if you refuse they put you in prison, but there is a way you can help you can make voluntary NI contributions at any time, so go ahead, it'll still be shit. My two pennith I think rather than carrying on, make NHS emergency and life threatening only the rest you get private insurance for. Also promote preventative bit like an MOT to reduce premiums. If you think I'm heartless i know people younger than me costing the NHS a fortune and make no effort to improve their health in fact they treat it like a lottery win, free housing, benefits and drugs. As a d*unk said to me the pills he takes keeps him alive, the drink make it worth living, I'd rather give him the vodka and wait for nature to take it course. Making it life threatening or emergency only has 2 major drawbacks though. 1. It can actually cost more because rather than it costing a hundred to get something sorted right away, waiting and letting it get worse leaves the NHS on the hook for possibly tens of thousands depending on the issue. 2. It creates secondary problems like a cost to the economy for increased sick days, increased mental issues, as well as increased family and social problems. The very, very few that treat themselves that badly and the NHS like a "lottery win" aren't representative of the majority and make up a negligible amount of the NHS budget even if their individual cases seem extreme. You cant cut off medical services to millions who need it because of what some d*unk guy told you. You're living in a fantasy world, fact is there are more malingerers than even Farage thinks and yes there are loads of work days lost. So if they are genuine worker they can afford healthcare insurance get treated and get back to work. |irony is that how the US system worked before Obama and guess what they did far better. Step away from the crack pipe...." Might I just add that genuine worker would be able to afford decent health cover currently not provided by the NHS if they weren't forced to pay into this current ponzi scheme. Tough decisions need to be made sorry but its gone enough. You snowflakes are just going to go and cry in the corner. | |||
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"The BMA needs to admit to itself that, because of 21st century medical technology fully-qualified SRNs are no longer as necessary as they used to be. A phlebotomist can qualify in 4-8 months and also be an HCA. They can put cannulae in. A pharmacy assistant can hand out tablets from a trolley after a 12 month course, and also be an HCA. The cost of SRN training in this country also needs to be addressed, and reduced." I did paediatric phlebotomy in two days the 3rd day was antt. A HCA can take bloods however unless they have taken a 'practitioner' course are unable to canulate due to gmc rules about anything passing into the body. Sadly our government have screwed over the NHS. I tried for years to get a secondment but was told funding wasn't available, I would have been happy to sign a post degree contract to tie me there for 5 years that way the ward would have had and invested interest and a garunteed member off staff. To do it alone giving up work to go back into full time education would have cost me £42k or there abouts per year with loss of salary, course costs, and yearly bills. I would never make that 120k back over my lifetime. They are loosing some amazing staff and it's tragic. | |||
"As far as i see it its been successive Government's failures that has led to this point. 1. With freedom of movement we've totally taken our eye off the ball regarding training enough nurses ourselves. 2. Brexit has with the looks of it made thousands of EU nurses / potential nurses unsure whether they will be able to remain in the UK after we leave the EU. 3. EU citizens working here or who were thinking about working here should have been given cast iron guarantees about being able to remain here after Brexit. 4. To have working conditions and pay bad enough in the NHS as to only predominantly attract foreign EU workers who have it even worse in their own country being the one's attracted to work in our NHS isn't exactly the best way about doing things. Money is there to utilise, just need a Government brave enough to do it. " if brexit is to work a government needs to accept it needs to put more into training medical and mental health professionals. Even the most basic point of increasing course availibility would be good right now. | |||
"As far as i see it its been successive Government's failures that has led to this point. 1. With freedom of movement we've totally taken our eye off the ball regarding training enough nurses ourselves. 2. Brexit has with the looks of it made thousands of EU nurses / potential nurses unsure whether they will be able to remain in the UK after we leave the EU. 3. EU citizens working here or who were thinking about working here should have been given cast iron guarantees about being able to remain here after Brexit. 4. To have working conditions and pay bad enough in the NHS as to only predominantly attract foreign EU workers who have it even worse in their own country being the one's attracted to work in our NHS isn't exactly the best way about doing things. Money is there to utilise, just need a Government brave enough to do it. " if brexit is to work a government needs to accept it needs to put more into training medical and mental health professionals. Even the most basic point of increasing course availibility would be good right now. | |||
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"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's." I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? " And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people." Right, so why do you believe they will change now? | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's." so you go to work just cuz you love your work? If so would you do it for free? | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? " Where have I said i believe they'll change now? | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? " So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Problem is, funding to NHS nursing courses have been cut - and there bursaries have been cut.
Basically the training of nurses in this country is been hacked at from two ends. Funding limiting training spaces available, and funding for bursaries which deters kids from working class and less affluent backgrounds from going into it.
It might sound simple. Train more british nationals, but with brexit and the gov less willing to splash around money till we weather any potential storm, then NHS training will probably remain at its current flat line.
Hopefully if less nurses are coming from the EU, we are also having less of benefit suckng scroungers as well, but I doubt it!.
They are not scroungers they are workers! Working in our NHS!
I never said the nurses were benefit sucking scroungers, but not everybody who turns up on our shores actually delivers any benefit to the UK. But plenty rock up here knowing that they will be accommodated fed water and given money to live off. Or is my years of experience working in social housing wrong
You work in social housing? So if an EU migrant rocks up on our shores then, are they entitled to a house? JSA? ESA? Housing benefit? etc. "Get yourself up Rochdale Burnley bury etc and check out for yourself, see how many get a free boiler, don't pay for gas or electric that they use as it's covered by the state | |||
"The BMA needs to admit to itself that, because of 21st century medical technology fully-qualified SRNs are no longer as necessary as they used to be. A phlebotomist can qualify in 4-8 months and also be an HCA. They can put cannulae in. A pharmacy assistant can hand out tablets from a trolley after a 12 month course, and also be an HCA. The cost of SRN training in this country also needs to be addressed, and reduced. I did paediatric phlebotomy in two days the 3rd day was antt. A HCA can take bloods however unless they have taken a 'practitioner' course are unable to canulate due to gmc rules about anything passing into the body. Sadly our government have screwed over the NHS. I tried for years to get a secondment but was told funding wasn't available, I would have been happy to sign a post degree contract to tie me there for 5 years that way the ward would have had and invested interest and a garunteed member off staff. To do it alone giving up work to go back into full time education would have cost me £42k or there abouts per year with loss of salary, course costs, and yearly bills. I would never make that 120k back over my lifetime. They are loosing some amazing staff and it's tragic." | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Problem is, funding to NHS nursing courses have been cut - and there bursaries have been cut.
Basically the training of nurses in this country is been hacked at from two ends. Funding limiting training spaces available, and funding for bursaries which deters kids from working class and less affluent backgrounds from going into it.
It might sound simple. Train more british nationals, but with brexit and the gov less willing to splash around money till we weather any potential storm, then NHS training will probably remain at its current flat line.
Hopefully if less nurses are coming from the EU, we are also having less of benefit suckng scroungers as well, but I doubt it!.
They are not scroungers they are workers! Working in our NHS!
I never said the nurses were benefit sucking scroungers, but not everybody who turns up on our shores actually delivers any benefit to the UK. But plenty rock up here knowing that they will be accommodated fed water and given money to live off. Or is my years of experience working in social housing wrong
You work in social housing? So if an EU migrant rocks up on our shores then, are they entitled to a house? JSA? ESA? Housing benefit? etc.
Get yourself up Rochdale Burnley bury etc and check out for yourself, see how many get a free boiler, don't pay for gas or electric that they use as it's covered by the state"There is no direct benefit for gas or electric in the UK as far as I am aware. I would be fascinated to hear about it if there is one. Can you give us the .gov link to it? Or maybe just the name and administrating agency (local authority, DWP, HMRC etc). So going back to the question that I asked, with your years of experience in social housing, what are EU migrants entitled to when they come to the UK? | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. so you go to work just cuz you love your work? If so would you do it for free?" The exchange rate has a huge impact on these individuals, by polish builder is constantly trying to get a better daily rate out of me, as he is getting less zeloties under the current exchange rate. But hey life is tough and take it or leave it, funnily enough he keeps coming back for the next house renovation project. I must admit he is dam good multi skilled guy, and does me a superb days work | |||
"last week they had spent their working life instructing grid electricians on how to install meters .... this week they have spent years working in social housing .... next week they will have spent three decades living on another planet .... oh wait "Not my whole working life, but if you would like to attend a dual fuel metering course DM and we can discuss a course few for you | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Problem is, funding to NHS nursing courses have been cut - and there bursaries have been cut.
Basically the training of nurses in this country is been hacked at from two ends. Funding limiting training spaces available, and funding for bursaries which deters kids from working class and less affluent backgrounds from going into it.
It might sound simple. Train more british nationals, but with brexit and the gov less willing to splash around money till we weather any potential storm, then NHS training will probably remain at its current flat line.
Hopefully if less nurses are coming from the EU, we are also having less of benefit suckng scroungers as well, but I doubt it!.
They are not scroungers they are workers! Working in our NHS!
I never said the nurses were benefit sucking scroungers, but not everybody who turns up on our shores actually delivers any benefit to the UK. But plenty rock up here knowing that they will be accommodated fed water and given money to live off. Or is my years of experience working in social housing wrong
You work in social housing? So if an EU migrant rocks up on our shores then, are they entitled to a house? JSA? ESA? Housing benefit? etc.
Get yourself up Rochdale Burnley bury etc and check out for yourself, see how many get a free boiler, don't pay for gas or electric that they use as it's covered by the state
There is no direct benefit for gas or electric in the UK as far as I am aware. I would be fascinated to hear about it if there is one. Can you give us the .gov link to it? Or maybe just the name and administrating agency (local authority, DWP, HMRC etc).
So going back to the question that I asked, with your years of experience in social housing, what are EU migrants entitled to when they come to the UK? "Ask any bailiff who works for a power company how many EU and illegal migrants can produce a later return from the local authority saying that all of their fuel costs will be paid regardless of debt incurred | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Problem is, funding to NHS nursing courses have been cut - and there bursaries have been cut.
Basically the training of nurses in this country is been hacked at from two ends. Funding limiting training spaces available, and funding for bursaries which deters kids from working class and less affluent backgrounds from going into it.
It might sound simple. Train more british nationals, but with brexit and the gov less willing to splash around money till we weather any potential storm, then NHS training will probably remain at its current flat line.
Hopefully if less nurses are coming from the EU, we are also having less of benefit suckng scroungers as well, but I doubt it!.
They are not scroungers they are workers! Working in our NHS!
I never said the nurses were benefit sucking scroungers, but not everybody who turns up on our shores actually delivers any benefit to the UK. But plenty rock up here knowing that they will be accommodated fed water and given money to live off. Or is my years of experience working in social housing wrong
You work in social housing? So if an EU migrant rocks up on our shores then, are they entitled to a house? JSA? ESA? Housing benefit? etc.
Get yourself up Rochdale Burnley bury etc and check out for yourself, see how many get a free boiler, don't pay for gas or electric that they use as it's covered by the state
There is no direct benefit for gas or electric in the UK as far as I am aware. I would be fascinated to hear about it if there is one. Can you give us the .gov link to it? Or maybe just the name and administrating agency (local authority, DWP, HMRC etc).
So going back to the question that I asked, with your years of experience in social housing, what are EU migrants entitled to when they come to the UK? "Here is your link to a free boiler under ecodeal https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/the-green-deal-and-energy-company-obligation | |||
"Quelle surprise... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers
-Matt I never read links so I am guessing that the suggestion is that this might cause a problem.
Hopefully the solution is simple . We train more Uk nurses and do not rely on imported labour.
Problem is, funding to NHS nursing courses have been cut - and there bursaries have been cut.
Basically the training of nurses in this country is been hacked at from two ends. Funding limiting training spaces available, and funding for bursaries which deters kids from working class and less affluent backgrounds from going into it.
It might sound simple. Train more british nationals, but with brexit and the gov less willing to splash around money till we weather any potential storm, then NHS training will probably remain at its current flat line.
Hopefully if less nurses are coming from the EU, we are also having less of benefit suckng scroungers as well, but I doubt it!.
They are not scroungers they are workers! Working in our NHS!
I never said the nurses were benefit sucking scroungers, but not everybody who turns up on our shores actually delivers any benefit to the UK. But plenty rock up here knowing that they will be accommodated fed water and given money to live off. Or is my years of experience working in social housing wrong
You work in social housing? So if an EU migrant rocks up on our shores then, are they entitled to a house? JSA? ESA? Housing benefit? etc.
Get yourself up Rochdale Burnley bury etc and check out for yourself, see how many get a free boiler, don't pay for gas or electric that they use as it's covered by the state
There is no direct benefit for gas or electric in the UK as far as I am aware. I would be fascinated to hear about it if there is one. Can you give us the .gov link to it? Or maybe just the name and administrating agency (local authority, DWP, HMRC etc).
So going back to the question that I asked, with your years of experience in social housing, what are EU migrants entitled to when they come to the UK?
Ask any bailiff who works for a power company how many EU and illegal migrants can produce a later return from the local authority saying that all of their fuel costs will be paid regardless of debt incurred"Zero would be that number. What's the name of this supposed magical benefit? | |||
| |||
"last week they had spent their working life instructing grid electricians on how to install meters .... this week they have spent years working in social housing .... next week they will have spent three decades living on another planet .... oh wait
Not my whole working life, but if you would like to attend a dual fuel metering course DM and we can discuss a course few for you"So what is your job, before you worked in social housing, now it seems you are a builder or electrician, which is it? | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? " You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now?" You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? " Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need. | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need." 'Raping'. But of a strong word don't you think? I mean it is not like we are going to these countries and forcibly removing their medical staff and bringing them here against their will. -Matt | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need. 'Raping'. But of a strong word don't you think? I mean it is not like we are going to these countries and forcibly removing their medical staff and bringing them here against their will. -Matt" So in essence you don't disagree with what I'm saying, (that there shouldn't be 'free movement', but immigration should be controlled) other than being pedantic over one word? Interesting..... | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need. 'Raping'. But of a strong word don't you think? I mean it is not like we are going to these countries and forcibly removing their medical staff and bringing them here against their will. -Matt So in essence you don't disagree with what I'm saying, (that there shouldn't be 'free movement', but immigration should be controlled) other than being pedantic over one word? Interesting....." No, not at all. Read what I wrote. Don't make assumptions that are not there. I pulled you up on that one word, as I feel it an oddly strong and evocative word to use in this scenario. Not to mention bollocks. The other sentence of your two-sentence comment... what do you want me to say? I didn't vote to leave, and don't believe I know why everyone voted the way they did. You say you know what '99% or more' of brexiters believe in. If you want my opinion on that, I'll say I think you are talking crap by virtue you have no idea what '99% or more' of brexiteers want. You might know what you want... or maybe even what your mates down the pub profess to want... beyond that... no, you don't know. But as for your wild assumption and trying to make up shit that I've not written. No, I do disagree with you. I don't think immigration should be controlled. By virtue that I don't think the government (or anyone other than the employment market) can control it effectively. -Matt | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need. 'Raping'. But of a strong word don't you think? I mean it is not like we are going to these countries and forcibly removing their medical staff and bringing them here against their will. -Matt So in essence you don't disagree with what I'm saying, (that there shouldn't be 'free movement', but immigration should be controlled) other than being pedantic over one word? Interesting..... No, not at all. Read what I wrote. Don't make assumptions that are not there. I pulled you up on that one word, as I feel it an oddly strong and evocative word to use in this scenario. Not to mention bollocks. The other sentence of your two-sentence comment... what do you want me to say? I didn't vote to leave, and don't believe I know why everyone voted the way they did. You say you know what '99% or more' of brexiters believe in. If you want my opinion on that, I'll say I think you are talking crap by virtue you have no idea what '99% or more' of brexiteers want. You might know what you want... or maybe even what your mates down the pub profess to want... beyond that... no, you don't know. But as for your wild assumption and trying to make up shit that I've not written. No, I do disagree with you. I don't think immigration should be controlled. By virtue that I don't think the government (or anyone other than the employment market) can control it effectively. -Matt" So you are advocating that the UK has an open border policy? Anyone from anywhere can come here unhindered? | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need." So would you be happy if we had control over immigration, and the total number of immigrants increased? | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need. 'Raping'. But of a strong word don't you think? I mean it is not like we are going to these countries and forcibly removing their medical staff and bringing them here against their will. -Matt So in essence you don't disagree with what I'm saying, (that there shouldn't be 'free movement', but immigration should be controlled) other than being pedantic over one word? Interesting..... No, not at all. Read what I wrote. Don't make assumptions that are not there. I pulled you up on that one word, as I feel it an oddly strong and evocative word to use in this scenario. Not to mention bollocks. The other sentence of your two-sentence comment... what do you want me to say? I didn't vote to leave, and don't believe I know why everyone voted the way they did. You say you know what '99% or more' of brexiters believe in. If you want my opinion on that, I'll say I think you are talking crap by virtue you have no idea what '99% or more' of brexiteers want. You might know what you want... or maybe even what your mates down the pub profess to want... beyond that... no, you don't know. But as for your wild assumption and trying to make up shit that I've not written. No, I do disagree with you. I don't think immigration should be controlled. By virtue that I don't think the government (or anyone other than the employment market) can control it effectively. -Matt So you are advocating that the UK has an open border policy? Anyone from anywhere can come here unhindered?" I think we have a nice balance now in that EU citizens can come here unhindered within the bounds of passport checks and shared security. -Matt | |||
| |||
"last week they had spent their working life instructing grid electricians on how to install meters .... this week they have spent years working in social housing .... next week they will have spent three decades living on another planet .... oh wait
Not my whole working life, but if you would like to attend a dual fuel metering course DM and we can discuss a course few for you
So what is your job, before you worked in social housing, now it seems you are a builder or electrician, which is it? "I actually own and operate my own training consultancy business's, I buy and develop properties for profit and resale. I won and rent property I have managed guys and gals in the untilities sector. How about you? | |||
"last week they had spent their working life instructing grid electricians on how to install meters .... this week they have spent years working in social housing .... next week they will have spent three decades living on another planet .... oh wait
Not my whole working life, but if you would like to attend a dual fuel metering course DM and we can discuss a course few for you
So what is your job, before you worked in social housing, now it seems you are a builder or electrician, which is it?
I actually own and operate my own training consultancy business's, I buy and develop properties for profit and resale. I won and rent property
I have managed guys and gals in the untilities sector.
How about you?"So you dont work in social housing then? | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need. So would you be happy if we had control over immigration, and the total number of immigrants increased?" I'm happy for us to have control over immigration and for us to import or allow those skills which we actually short of, I believe those arriving should initially fund their own care and housing for at least 4 years. I believe we should deport those who have been here over 6 months with out working and with out the funds to support themselves I believe we should invest in even more apprentices and fill our skills gaps by home grown individuals. But hey I'm an uncaring racist conservative xenophobic twat, who has never done any thing for those who are far less fortunate than myself. Who has never given up his own personal time to support the homeless disabled people of the UK, as all conservative Brexit voting folk are twats in the 1st degree | |||
| |||
"last week they had spent their working life instructing grid electricians on how to install meters .... this week they have spent years working in social housing .... next week they will have spent three decades living on another planet .... oh wait
Not my whole working life, but if you would like to attend a dual fuel metering course DM and we can discuss a course few for you
So what is your job, before you worked in social housing, now it seems you are a builder or electrician, which is it?
I actually own and operate my own training consultancy business's, I buy and develop properties for profit and resale. I won and rent property
I have managed guys and gals in the untilities sector.
How about you?
So you dont work in social housing then? "You should try upskilling yourself it will give you a greater choice in what you do, as you haven't answered what actually do yet, keep on driving at what I am capable of doing | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need. 'Raping'. But of a strong word don't you think? I mean it is not like we are going to these countries and forcibly removing their medical staff and bringing them here against their will. -Matt So in essence you don't disagree with what I'm saying, (that there shouldn't be 'free movement', but immigration should be controlled) other than being pedantic over one word? Interesting..... No, not at all. Read what I wrote. Don't make assumptions that are not there. I pulled you up on that one word, as I feel it an oddly strong and evocative word to use in this scenario. Not to mention bollocks. The other sentence of your two-sentence comment... what do you want me to say? I didn't vote to leave, and don't believe I know why everyone voted the way they did. You say you know what '99% or more' of brexiters believe in. If you want my opinion on that, I'll say I think you are talking crap by virtue you have no idea what '99% or more' of brexiteers want. You might know what you want... or maybe even what your mates down the pub profess to want... beyond that... no, you don't know. But as for your wild assumption and trying to make up shit that I've not written. No, I do disagree with you. I don't think immigration should be controlled. By virtue that I don't think the government (or anyone other than the employment market) can control it effectively. -Matt" So if you don't think immigration should be controlled, is that all immigration? And what if someone comes here and hasn't got a job? Should they get any benefits? | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need. So would you be happy if we had control over immigration, and the total number of immigrants increased? I'm happy for us to have control over immigration and for us to import or allow those skills which we actually short of, I believe those arriving should initially fund their own care and housing for at least 4 years. I believe we should deport those who have been here over 6 months with out working and with out the funds to support themselves I believe we should invest in even more apprentices and fill our skills gaps by home grown individuals. But hey I'm an uncaring racist conservative xenophobic twat, who has never done any thing for those who are far less fortunate than myself. Who has never given up his own personal time to support the homeless disabled people of the UK, as all conservative Brexit voting folk are twats in the 1st degree" But you still didn't answer the question that you quoted. Would you be happy if it was controlled, but controlled upwards? We already have a system where if an EU migrant isn't working for 6 months they are deported, however as you are saying it like a suggestion I guess you weren't aware of that. | |||
"last week they had spent their working life instructing grid electricians on how to install meters .... this week they have spent years working in social housing .... next week they will have spent three decades living on another planet .... oh wait
Not my whole working life, but if you would like to attend a dual fuel metering course DM and we can discuss a course few for you
So what is your job, before you worked in social housing, now it seems you are a builder or electrician, which is it?
I actually own and operate my own training consultancy business's, I buy and develop properties for profit and resale. I won and rent property
I have managed guys and gals in the untilities sector.
How about you?
So you dont work in social housing then?
You should try upskilling yourself it will give you a greater choice in what you do, as you haven't answered what actually do yet, keep on driving at what I am capable of doing"Why would you say you work in social housing if you don't? That seems a very odd thing to lie about. | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need. 'Raping'. But of a strong word don't you think? I mean it is not like we are going to these countries and forcibly removing their medical staff and bringing them here against their will. -Matt So in essence you don't disagree with what I'm saying, (that there shouldn't be 'free movement', but immigration should be controlled) other than being pedantic over one word? Interesting..... No, not at all. Read what I wrote. Don't make assumptions that are not there. I pulled you up on that one word, as I feel it an oddly strong and evocative word to use in this scenario. Not to mention bollocks. The other sentence of your two-sentence comment... what do you want me to say? I didn't vote to leave, and don't believe I know why everyone voted the way they did. You say you know what '99% or more' of brexiters believe in. If you want my opinion on that, I'll say I think you are talking crap by virtue you have no idea what '99% or more' of brexiteers want. You might know what you want... or maybe even what your mates down the pub profess to want... beyond that... no, you don't know. But as for your wild assumption and trying to make up shit that I've not written. No, I do disagree with you. I don't think immigration should be controlled. By virtue that I don't think the government (or anyone other than the employment market) can control it effectively. -Matt So if you don't think immigration should be controlled, is that all immigration? And what if someone comes here and hasn't got a job? Should they get any benefits?" I think the current system in which they get a limited set for a limited time is fine by me. -Matt | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need. So would you be happy if we had control over immigration, and the total number of immigrants increased? I'm happy for us to have control over immigration and for us to import or allow those skills which we actually short of, I believe those arriving should initially fund their own care and housing for at least 4 years. I believe we should deport those who have been here over 6 months with out working and with out the funds to support themselves I believe we should invest in even more apprentices and fill our skills gaps by home grown individuals. But hey I'm an uncaring racist conservative xenophobic twat, who has never done any thing for those who are far less fortunate than myself. Who has never given up his own personal time to support the homeless disabled people of the UK, as all conservative Brexit voting folk are twats in the 1st degree But you still didn't answer the question that you quoted. Would you be happy if it was controlled, but controlled upwards? We already have a system where if an EU migrant isn't working for 6 months they are deported, however as you are saying it like a suggestion I guess you weren't aware of that." Well it obviously isn't working | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need. 'Raping'. But of a strong word don't you think? I mean it is not like we are going to these countries and forcibly removing their medical staff and bringing them here against their will. -Matt So in essence you don't disagree with what I'm saying, (that there shouldn't be 'free movement', but immigration should be controlled) other than being pedantic over one word? Interesting..... No, not at all. Read what I wrote. Don't make assumptions that are not there. I pulled you up on that one word, as I feel it an oddly strong and evocative word to use in this scenario. Not to mention bollocks. The other sentence of your two-sentence comment... what do you want me to say? I didn't vote to leave, and don't believe I know why everyone voted the way they did. You say you know what '99% or more' of brexiters believe in. If you want my opinion on that, I'll say I think you are talking crap by virtue you have no idea what '99% or more' of brexiteers want. You might know what you want... or maybe even what your mates down the pub profess to want... beyond that... no, you don't know. But as for your wild assumption and trying to make up shit that I've not written. No, I do disagree with you. I don't think immigration should be controlled. By virtue that I don't think the government (or anyone other than the employment market) can control it effectively. -Matt So if you don't think immigration should be controlled, is that all immigration? And what if someone comes here and hasn't got a job? Should they get any benefits? I think the current system in which they get a limited set for a limited time is fine by me. -Matt" So you think it should be controlled then! | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need. 'Raping'. But of a strong word don't you think? I mean it is not like we are going to these countries and forcibly removing their medical staff and bringing them here against their will. -Matt So in essence you don't disagree with what I'm saying, (that there shouldn't be 'free movement', but immigration should be controlled) other than being pedantic over one word? Interesting..... No, not at all. Read what I wrote. Don't make assumptions that are not there. I pulled you up on that one word, as I feel it an oddly strong and evocative word to use in this scenario. Not to mention bollocks. The other sentence of your two-sentence comment... what do you want me to say? I didn't vote to leave, and don't believe I know why everyone voted the way they did. You say you know what '99% or more' of brexiters believe in. If you want my opinion on that, I'll say I think you are talking crap by virtue you have no idea what '99% or more' of brexiteers want. You might know what you want... or maybe even what your mates down the pub profess to want... beyond that... no, you don't know. But as for your wild assumption and trying to make up shit that I've not written. No, I do disagree with you. I don't think immigration should be controlled. By virtue that I don't think the government (or anyone other than the employment market) can control it effectively. -Matt So if you don't think immigration should be controlled, is that all immigration? And what if someone comes here and hasn't got a job? Should they get any benefits? I think the current system in which they get a limited set for a limited time is fine by me. -Matt So you think it should be controlled then!" *sigh* No. -Matt | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need. 'Raping'. But of a strong word don't you think? I mean it is not like we are going to these countries and forcibly removing their medical staff and bringing them here against their will. -Matt So in essence you don't disagree with what I'm saying, (that there shouldn't be 'free movement', but immigration should be controlled) other than being pedantic over one word? Interesting..... No, not at all. Read what I wrote. Don't make assumptions that are not there. I pulled you up on that one word, as I feel it an oddly strong and evocative word to use in this scenario. Not to mention bollocks. The other sentence of your two-sentence comment... what do you want me to say? I didn't vote to leave, and don't believe I know why everyone voted the way they did. You say you know what '99% or more' of brexiters believe in. If you want my opinion on that, I'll say I think you are talking crap by virtue you have no idea what '99% or more' of brexiteers want. You might know what you want... or maybe even what your mates down the pub profess to want... beyond that... no, you don't know. But as for your wild assumption and trying to make up shit that I've not written. No, I do disagree with you. I don't think immigration should be controlled. By virtue that I don't think the government (or anyone other than the employment market) can control it effectively. -Matt So if you don't think immigration should be controlled, is that all immigration? And what if someone comes here and hasn't got a job? Should they get any benefits? I think the current system in which they get a limited set for a limited time is fine by me. -Matt So you think it should be controlled then! *sigh* No. -Matt" So do you think anyone, from anywhere, (not just the EU, but anywhere), should be able to come here wherever they want, with no requirement to have job to go to, and if they don't get a job, stay here for as long as they want? | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need. 'Raping'. But of a strong word don't you think? I mean it is not like we are going to these countries and forcibly removing their medical staff and bringing them here against their will. -Matt So in essence you don't disagree with what I'm saying, (that there shouldn't be 'free movement', but immigration should be controlled) other than being pedantic over one word? Interesting..... No, not at all. Read what I wrote. Don't make assumptions that are not there. I pulled you up on that one word, as I feel it an oddly strong and evocative word to use in this scenario. Not to mention bollocks. The other sentence of your two-sentence comment... what do you want me to say? I didn't vote to leave, and don't believe I know why everyone voted the way they did. You say you know what '99% or more' of brexiters believe in. If you want my opinion on that, I'll say I think you are talking crap by virtue you have no idea what '99% or more' of brexiteers want. You might know what you want... or maybe even what your mates down the pub profess to want... beyond that... no, you don't know. But as for your wild assumption and trying to make up shit that I've not written. No, I do disagree with you. I don't think immigration should be controlled. By virtue that I don't think the government (or anyone other than the employment market) can control it effectively. -Matt So if you don't think immigration should be controlled, is that all immigration? And what if someone comes here and hasn't got a job? Should they get any benefits? I think the current system in which they get a limited set for a limited time is fine by me. -Matt So you think it should be controlled then! *sigh* No. -Matt So do you think anyone, from anywhere, (not just the EU, but anywhere), should be able to come here wherever they want, with no requirement to have job to go to, and if they don't get a job, stay here for as long as they want?" That's not what we have today from any country | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need. 'Raping'. But of a strong word don't you think? I mean it is not like we are going to these countries and forcibly removing their medical staff and bringing them here against their will. -Matt So in essence you don't disagree with what I'm saying, (that there shouldn't be 'free movement', but immigration should be controlled) other than being pedantic over one word? Interesting..... No, not at all. Read what I wrote. Don't make assumptions that are not there. I pulled you up on that one word, as I feel it an oddly strong and evocative word to use in this scenario. Not to mention bollocks. The other sentence of your two-sentence comment... what do you want me to say? I didn't vote to leave, and don't believe I know why everyone voted the way they did. You say you know what '99% or more' of brexiters believe in. If you want my opinion on that, I'll say I think you are talking crap by virtue you have no idea what '99% or more' of brexiteers want. You might know what you want... or maybe even what your mates down the pub profess to want... beyond that... no, you don't know. But as for your wild assumption and trying to make up shit that I've not written. No, I do disagree with you. I don't think immigration should be controlled. By virtue that I don't think the government (or anyone other than the employment market) can control it effectively. -Matt So if you don't think immigration should be controlled, is that all immigration? And what if someone comes here and hasn't got a job? Should they get any benefits? I think the current system in which they get a limited set for a limited time is fine by me. -Matt So you think it should be controlled then! *sigh* No. -Matt So do you think anyone, from anywhere, (not just the EU, but anywhere), should be able to come here wherever they want, with no requirement to have job to go to, and if they don't get a job, stay here for as long as they want? That's not what we have today from any country" That's not an answer to my question! ....what you said is that you "don't think immigration should be controlled ". To which my question was; So do you think anyone, from anywhere, (not just the EU, but anywhere), should be able to come here whenever they want, with no requirement to have a job to go to, and if they don't get a job, stay here for as long as they want? | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need. 'Raping'. But of a strong word don't you think? I mean it is not like we are going to these countries and forcibly removing their medical staff and bringing them here against their will. -Matt So in essence you don't disagree with what I'm saying, (that there shouldn't be 'free movement', but immigration should be controlled) other than being pedantic over one word? Interesting..... No, not at all. Read what I wrote. Don't make assumptions that are not there. I pulled you up on that one word, as I feel it an oddly strong and evocative word to use in this scenario. Not to mention bollocks. The other sentence of your two-sentence comment... what do you want me to say? I didn't vote to leave, and don't believe I know why everyone voted the way they did. You say you know what '99% or more' of brexiters believe in. If you want my opinion on that, I'll say I think you are talking crap by virtue you have no idea what '99% or more' of brexiteers want. You might know what you want... or maybe even what your mates down the pub profess to want... beyond that... no, you don't know. But as for your wild assumption and trying to make up shit that I've not written. No, I do disagree with you. I don't think immigration should be controlled. By virtue that I don't think the government (or anyone other than the employment market) can control it effectively. -Matt So if you don't think immigration should be controlled, is that all immigration? And what if someone comes here and hasn't got a job? Should they get any benefits? I think the current system in which they get a limited set for a limited time is fine by me. -Matt So you think it should be controlled then! *sigh* No. -Matt So do you think anyone, from anywhere, (not just the EU, but anywhere), should be able to come here wherever they want, with no requirement to have job to go to, and if they don't get a job, stay here for as long as they want? That's not what we have today from any country That's not an answer to my question! ....what you said is that you "don't think immigration should be controlled ". To which my question was; So do you think anyone, from anywhere, (not just the EU, but anywhere), should be able to come here whenever they want, with no requirement to have a job to go to, and if they don't get a job, stay here for as long as they want? " I think you are getting me mixed up with Matt | |||
"So do you think anyone, from anywhere, (not just the EU, but anywhere), should be able to come here wherever they want, with no requirement to have job to go to, and if they don't get a job, stay here for as long as they want?" Yes. -Matt | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need. 'Raping'. But of a strong word don't you think? I mean it is not like we are going to these countries and forcibly removing their medical staff and bringing them here against their will. -Matt So in essence you don't disagree with what I'm saying, (that there shouldn't be 'free movement', but immigration should be controlled) other than being pedantic over one word? Interesting..... No, not at all. Read what I wrote. Don't make assumptions that are not there. I pulled you up on that one word, as I feel it an oddly strong and evocative word to use in this scenario. Not to mention bollocks. The other sentence of your two-sentence comment... what do you want me to say? I didn't vote to leave, and don't believe I know why everyone voted the way they did. You say you know what '99% or more' of brexiters believe in. If you want my opinion on that, I'll say I think you are talking crap by virtue you have no idea what '99% or more' of brexiteers want. You might know what you want... or maybe even what your mates down the pub profess to want... beyond that... no, you don't know. But as for your wild assumption and trying to make up shit that I've not written. No, I do disagree with you. I don't think immigration should be controlled. By virtue that I don't think the government (or anyone other than the employment market) can control it effectively. -Matt So if you don't think immigration should be controlled, is that all immigration? And what if someone comes here and hasn't got a job? Should they get any benefits? I think the current system in which they get a limited set for a limited time is fine by me. -Matt So you think it should be controlled then! *sigh* No. -Matt So do you think anyone, from anywhere, (not just the EU, but anywhere), should be able to come here wherever they want, with no requirement to have job to go to, and if they don't get a job, stay here for as long as they want? That's not what we have today from any country That's not an answer to my question! ....what you said is that you "don't think immigration should be controlled ". To which my question was; So do you think anyone, from anywhere, (not just the EU, but anywhere), should be able to come here whenever they want, with no requirement to have a job to go to, and if they don't get a job, stay here for as long as they want? I think you are getting me mixed up with Matt" My apologies CLCC | |||
"Every-one is missing the point, a lot of E.U.nationals are leaving because of the exchange rate. They mostly came for economic reasons, not to help our N.H.S.. Time for us to train our own staff and stop sending the country's wealth oversea's. I dont think anyone has ever said or belived that they came here for purely altruistic reasons, however what matters is that we have had staff shortages since before the referendum, and this has got worse since. No one is against the government training more British people, however they know that the government simply wont do it. The government have had 9 months since the referendum, in that time what has the government done to address this situation? And decades before the referendum..... When they also did fuck all to train enough British people. Right, so why do you believe they will change now? Where have I said i believe they'll change now? So you don't believe they'll change then? And so we will still need foreign personnel to fill the storages then? You've had a real go at someone on another thread, over several posts, about them not answering a question (which I find a bit ironic coming from the master question dodger on these threads).... And here you are, doing the same thing... So I'll ask again... Where have I said I believe they'll change now? You haven't said that you think they'll change, and as you seem so upset about it, that would suggest that you think the opposite, that you think the government will not train enough British people to staff the NHS. I did ask you to clarify but you ignored the question. So if there aren't enough British staff to man the NHS, it stands to reason that we will need foreign staff does it not? Yes, you're right, and I like 99% or more of Brexiters don't believe in ' no immigration', but want controlled immigration. I also believe that we should be training our own to do skilled jobs, and not raping poorer countries of people that they have trained in skills that those countries need. 'Raping'. But of a strong word don't you think? I mean it is not like we are going to these countries and forcibly removing their medical staff and bringing them here against their will. -Matt So in essence you don't disagree with what I'm saying, (that there shouldn't be 'free movement', but immigration should be controlled) other than being pedantic over one word? Interesting..... No, not at all. Read what I wrote. Don't make assumptions that are not there. I pulled you up on that one word, as I feel it an oddly strong and evocative word to use in this scenario. Not to mention bollocks. The other sentence of your two-sentence comment... what do you want me to say? I didn't vote to leave, and don't believe I know why everyone voted the way they did. You say you know what '99% or more' of brexiters believe in. If you want my opinion on that, I'll say I think you are talking crap by virtue you have no idea what '99% or more' of brexiteers want. You might know what you want... or maybe even what your mates down the pub profess to want... beyond that... no, you don't know. But as for your wild assumption and trying to make up shit that I've not written. No, I do disagree with you. I don't think immigration should be controlled. By virtue that I don't think the government (or anyone other than the employment market) can control it effectively. -Matt So if you don't think immigration should be controlled, is that all immigration? And what if someone comes here and hasn't got a job? Should they get any benefits? I think the current system in which they get a limited set for a limited time is fine by me. -Matt So you think it should be controlled then! *sigh* No. -Matt So do you think anyone, from anywhere, (not just the EU, but anywhere), should be able to come here wherever they want, with no requirement to have job to go to, and if they don't get a job, stay here for as long as they want? That's not what we have today from any country That's not an answer to my question! ....what you said is that you "don't think immigration should be controlled ". To which my question was; So do you think anyone, from anywhere, (not just the EU, but anywhere), should be able to come here whenever they want, with no requirement to have a job to go to, and if they don't get a job, stay here for as long as they want? I think you are getting me mixed up with Matt My apologies CLCC " no problem, easily done. | |||
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