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Is The Trump Card Working ?
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Seems fair to start a thread about possible positive facts and figures , so here goes :
Washington Post- "The U.S. economy added a healthy 235,000 jobs in February, according to government data released Friday morning, surpassing economists' expectations and likely clearing the way for the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates this month.
The unemployment rate ticked down to 4.7 percent, compared with 4.8 percent in January, and wages rose by 6 cents to $26.09 in February, after a 5-cent increase the month before.
“It’s definitely a solid report,” said Tara Sinclair, an economist at George Washington University. “This is the kind of number that the Federal Reserve was looking to receive before their meetings next week.”
Mmm.....So more jobs, and wages rising !?
But that is not all ! 
According to the latest figures illegal border crossings are down 40% , not only an unprecedented drop, but one that contradicts the trend for these figures to rise in previous years for the same month! 
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/03/08/homeland-security-boss-illegal-border-crossings-down-40/98935926/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4295874/U-S-says-illegal-immigration-Mexico-declined-month.html
Could it be the Trump effect is working?
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Do you think the democrats will work with him to lift the debt ceiling? .
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"I said in another thread hes in for a shock soon. The debt ceiling gets implemented tomorrow meaning the US has 85 billion dollars left to spend and hes spending like a d*unken sailor by June he'll be broke .
Do you think the democrats will work with him to lift the debt ceiling? .
"And the 3 trillion dollar tax cut he is proposing..... isn't going to help the ceiling either.... And the repeal/replace of the affordable care act has a tax cut built in for the richest 1% And he can't take credit for either the drop in people crossing the border ( that had been dropping for the last two years anyway) Or the drop in unemployment ( 36 consecutive months in the rate decreasing) anyway... bit rich anyway taking any credit since throughout his campaign he said the figures were fixed and wrong ..... and didn't he try taking credit for January figures as well.... till it was pointed out those would have been the last ones under the last administration Or the expected interest rates increase... the federal bank is independent.. and since the rate anyway is 0.75% it is only going one way.... ( plus the fed has been signaling for the last 9 months that rate were likely to be going up sooner rather than later) And for the sake of clarity... I am not rubbishing him, but it's early for him to take credit for anything quite yet | |||
"Its early days, but there seem to be early signs that The Trump effect is starting to work! Most threads on here seem to be from fanatical "anti Trumpers" always ready to paint a dark picture, of anything and everything from the Trump house...lol... relax... its still The White House!
Seems fair to start a thread about possible positive facts and figures , so here goes :
Washington Post- "The U.S. economy added a healthy 235,000 jobs in February, according to government data released Friday morning, surpassing economists' expectations and likely clearing the way for the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates this month.
The unemployment rate ticked down to 4.7 percent, compared with 4.8 percent in January, and wages rose by 6 cents to $26.09 in February, after a 5-cent increase the month before.
“It’s definitely a solid report,” said Tara Sinclair, an economist at George Washington University. “This is the kind of number that the Federal Reserve was looking to receive before their meetings next week.”
Mmm.....So more jobs, and wages rising !?
But that is not all !
According to the latest figures illegal border crossings are down 40% , not only an unprecedented drop, but one that contradicts the trend for these figures to rise in previous years for the same month!
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/03/08/homeland-security-boss-illegal-border-crossings-down-40/98935926/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4295874/U-S-says-illegal-immigration-Mexico-declined-month.html
Could it be the Trump effect is working?
"good post it has always been the same that people will criticize Trump just for the sake of looking popular, being PC and basically just following the crowd, most believe all the read in papers and if the papers put trump down then the public follow suit these are just UK views, Trump was voted in by the majority, he won the vote and not only are the people who voted him in, are happy but many who voted against him also think he is doing a great job and he is following up on his promises, things wont turn around immediately as he was given a full barrel of shit to work with from Obama. Obama fucked things up truly, leaving the USA in a real bad place, it will take years to turn this mess around that Obama left, but it will be done | |||
"Its early days, but there seem to be early signs that The Trump effect is starting to work! Most threads on here seem to be from fanatical "anti Trumpers" always ready to paint a dark picture, of anything and everything from the Trump house...lol... relax... its still The White House!
Seems fair to start a thread about possible positive facts and figures , so here goes :
Washington Post- "The U.S. economy added a healthy 235,000 jobs in February, according to government data released Friday morning, surpassing economists' expectations and likely clearing the way for the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates this month.
The unemployment rate ticked down to 4.7 percent, compared with 4.8 percent in January, and wages rose by 6 cents to $26.09 in February, after a 5-cent increase the month before.
“It’s definitely a solid report,” said Tara Sinclair, an economist at George Washington University. “This is the kind of number that the Federal Reserve was looking to receive before their meetings next week.”
Mmm.....So more jobs, and wages rising !?
But that is not all !
According to the latest figures illegal border crossings are down 40% , not only an unprecedented drop, but one that contradicts the trend for these figures to rise in previous years for the same month!
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/03/08/homeland-security-boss-illegal-border-crossings-down-40/98935926/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4295874/U-S-says-illegal-immigration-Mexico-declined-month.html
Could it be the Trump effect is working?
good post
it has always been the same that people will criticize Trump just for the sake
of looking popular, being PC and basically just following the crowd, most believe all the read in papers and if the papers put trump down then the public follow suit
these are just UK views, Trump was voted in by the majority, he won the vote and not only are the people who voted him in, are happy but many who voted against him also think he is doing a great job
and he is following up on his promises, things wont turn around immediately as he was given a full barrel of shit to work with from Obama. Obama fucked things up truly, leaving the USA in a real bad place, it will take years to turn this mess around that Obama left, but it will be done "Trump lost the popular vote by a few million so the majority actually voted for Hillary. Hes also got the worst approval ratings for a new president in decades. Yes, polls have been off by a couple percent in some polls as the polling industry readjusts to the new world where people ditch landlines in favour of mobile only. But he's consistently hitting the low 40s in a range of polls over a period of weeks. And dont forget the polls in America got the election spot on, it was commentators who didnt allow for the electoral college upset,not the polls themselves. | |||
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"Obama fucked things up truly, leaving the USA in a real bad place" Just out of curiosity, what bits do you think he fucked up so badly and in what way do you think he left it in a bad place? -Matt | |||
"Obama fucked things up truly, leaving the USA in a real bad place Just out of curiosity, what bits do you think he fucked up so badly and in what way do you think he left it in a bad place? -Matt" Decreasing U.S. Workforce increased poverty Race relations - much worse Government Dept Education Foreign Relations Health Care Trust in Government and Media Cybersecurity Terrorism have a nice day now  | |||
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"Obama fucked things up truly, leaving the USA in a real bad place Just out of curiosity, what bits do you think he fucked up so badly and in what way do you think he left it in a bad place? -Matt Decreasing U.S. Workforce increased poverty Race relations - much worse Government Dept Education Foreign Relations Health Care Trust in Government and Media Cybersecurity Terrorism have a nice day now "See this is what I thought... you'd parrot out a bunch of meaningless titles without any thought about them. Decreasing US workforce? What do you even mean by that? Decreasing the number of actual people who are able to work? Nope, that has increased under Obama. Decreasing the number of people *in* work... no that has increased under Obama too. Increased poverty? Nope, that has gone down too. Down from 15.1% to 13.5% whilst he's been in office. Race relations - much worse? Really? Worse how? Worse because you've seen a bunch of black people stand up and say enough is enough of police brutality against them? You think the new guy, who was elected on a campaign of calling Mexicans rapists and criminals is going to do better for race relations? Government Dept? I presume you mean debt? Yeah, that has almost doubled. Too many wars. Not a good move. I'll be interested to see how Donnie gets on with this, as he doesn't seem to be too shrewd with money. Education.. how has that faired? Any actual specifics? I could go on, but I think you get my point. I mean healthcare... really? You think the Affordable Care Act has left the country in a worse position? Despite the Republicans trying to dismantle it at every turn. And now you have Donnie saying "Oh, actually healthcare is a bit complicated"... no shit sherlock. -Matt | |||
"good to see someone actually still believes in, and worships the polls lol they have been so accurate and spot on over past few years "Its not about worship. Polls are a useful tool. People look at the polls for the primaries and the general election and the polls only had 1 miss and that was the michigan primary for the democrats. Hillarys big win in the raw vote meant she should have won the electoral college too but there was the slim chance Donald could still carve out a path to victory which he did. But the polls were exactly right with the vote totals. | |||
"good to see someone actually still believes in, and worships the polls lol they have been so accurate and spot on over past few years
Its not about worship. Polls are a useful tool. People look at the polls for the primaries and the general election and the polls only had 1 miss and that was the michigan primary for the democrats.
Hillarys big win in the raw vote meant she should have won the electoral college too but there was the slim chance Donald could still carve out a path to victory which he did. But the polls were exactly right with the vote totals."Stop whining about the popular vote versus electoral college issue !
It shows ignorance or dishonesty, or both !
Not all democratic politcal systems are the same, and have variations that apply to local conditions and circumstances that.
If you don't know why and how the system in the US works, then I suggest you read up on the subject and educate yourself !
I am sure it will be time better spent then being on here posting BS! | |||
"good to see someone actually still believes in, and worships the polls lol they have been so accurate and spot on over past few years
Its not about worship. Polls are a useful tool. People look at the polls for the primaries and the general election and the polls only had 1 miss and that was the michigan primary for the democrats.
Hillarys big win in the raw vote meant she should have won the electoral college too but there was the slim chance Donald could still carve out a path to victory which he did. But the polls were exactly right with the vote totals.
Stop whining about the popular vote versus electoral college issue !
It shows ignorance or dishonesty, or both !
Not all democratic politcal systems are the same, and have variations that apply to local conditions and circumstances that.
If you don't know why and how the system in the US works, then I suggest you read up on the subject and educate yourself !
I am sure it will be time better spent then being on here posting BS! "Whoa tony.... who pissed in your cornflakes this morning? Maybe read what was actually written and respond to that, not just spout bile about imaginary things you think you read. I don't see any whining about the electoral collage vs popular vote. All I see is someone pointing out, in response to someone saying they aren't, that the polls were in fact pretty accurate for the popular vote. -Matt | |||
"good to see someone actually still believes in, and worships the polls lol they have been so accurate and spot on over past few years
Its not about worship. Polls are a useful tool. People look at the polls for the primaries and the general election and the polls only had 1 miss and that was the michigan primary for the democrats.
Hillarys big win in the raw vote meant she should have won the electoral college too but there was the slim chance Donald could still carve out a path to victory which he did. But the polls were exactly right with the vote totals.
Stop whining about the popular vote versus electoral college issue !
It shows ignorance or dishonesty, or both !
Not all democratic politcal systems are the same, and have variations that apply to local conditions and circumstances that.
If you don't know why and how the system in the US works, then I suggest you read up on the subject and educate yourself !
I am sure it will be time better spent then being on here posting BS!
Whoa tony.... who pissed in your cornflakes this morning? Maybe read what was actually written and respond to that, not just spout bile about imaginary things you think you read.
I don't see any whining about the electoral collage vs popular vote. All I see is someone pointing out, in response to someone saying they aren't, that the polls were in fact pretty accurate for the popular vote.
-Matt"Perhaps you should take your own advice,!
It seems that its your bile that is preventing you from reading properly, or that your corn flakes should have been replaced by coffee this morning ,and thus make you see clearly.
Read what is actually there !
How am I not responding to what is written ?
You say : "I don't see any whining about the electoral collage vs popular vote."
Really ?
So what is this ?
"Hillarys big win in the raw vote meant she should have won the electoral college too but there was the slim chance Donald could still carve out a path to victory which he did."
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"good to see someone actually still believes in, and worships the polls lol they have been so accurate and spot on over past few years
Its not about worship. Polls are a useful tool. People look at the polls for the primaries and the general election and the polls only had 1 miss and that was the michigan primary for the democrats.
Hillarys big win in the raw vote meant she should have won the electoral college too but there was the slim chance Donald could still carve out a path to victory which he did. But the polls were exactly right with the vote totals.
Stop whining about the popular vote versus electoral college issue !
It shows ignorance or dishonesty, or both !
Not all democratic politcal systems are the same, and have variations that apply to local conditions and circumstances that.
If you don't know why and how the system in the US works, then I suggest you read up on the subject and educate yourself !
I am sure it will be time better spent then being on here posting BS!
Whoa tony.... who pissed in your cornflakes this morning? Maybe read what was actually written and respond to that, not just spout bile about imaginary things you think you read.
I don't see any whining about the electoral collage vs popular vote. All I see is someone pointing out, in response to someone saying they aren't, that the polls were in fact pretty accurate for the popular vote.
-Matt
Perhaps you should take your own advice,!
It seems that its your bile that is preventing you from reading properly, or that your corn flakes should have been replaced by coffee this morning ,and thus make you see clearly.
Read what is actually there !
How am I not responding to what is written ?
You say : "I don't see any whining about the electoral collage vs popular vote."
Really ?
So what is this ?
"Hillarys big win in the raw vote meant she should have won the electoral college too but there was the slim chance Donald could still carve out a path to victory which he did."
"You believe that is whining? really? I don't see that as whining, I see that as very plainly pointing out the facts of what occurred. Even taken out of context like you have done there, and not included the bit above about the role of the polls, it still is not whining. -Matt | |||
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"Yeah it's working. Hundreds of illegals are making illegal crossings into Canada...must be to escape persecution from Trump's secret police!? I can't understand why they don't go to Mexico...maybe it's because they're racists and/or they expect Trudeau will give them a big hug and a fat cheque when they get there." . No its just really simple, the Mexican president is quite likely a bigger scumbag than trump, so you move to the states and when they vote in a scumbag you move to Canada. Its called voting with your feet  | |||
"Tony, what you have quoted isn't whining. It's an accurate description of what happened with no emotive language either way. Just because you don't like a fact - that Clinton got more votes than Trump - doesn't automatically make stating that fact 'whining,'. " Ok ! lets say its not whining ! You are "stating a fact" The problem that fact is irrelevant , due to the US election system ! Like it or not the rules were followed, and Trump won in accordance to the rules! What you are doing, is de-legitimatising Trumps victory by stating Clinton had more votes. So , since you are aware of that is how the system works , and if your´e not whining, then am I to conclude that you are either a bad loser, intellectually dishonest , d*unk/drugged, or otherwise not in a sane frame of mind ! 
So which one is it ?
And by the way ,getting back to the topic! any thoughts? | |||
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"nobody knows if his administration is having any kind of effect at all .... maybe try asking his microwave oven " kellyanne just cant keep her foot out of her mouth.... i am just surprise she isn't shitting toenails yet..... anyway... speaking of her overlord.... care to comment on the trump administration beginning to take back the "obama wiretap" claims???? apparently it wasn't obama himself now..... 
the only thing that will save trump this week is the big east coast storm that is coming... | |||
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"nobody knows if his administration is having any kind of effect at all .... maybe try asking his microwave oven kellyanne just cant keep her foot out of her mouth.... i am just surprise she isn't shitting toenails yet..... anyway... speaking of her overlord.... care to comment on the trump administration beginning to take back the "obama wiretap" claims???? apparently it wasn't obama himself now.....
the only thing that will save trump this week is the big east coast storm that is coming..."I'm pretty sure it was Obama scaling the outside of Trump Tower, breaking in, and placing the bugs himself. | |||
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"nobody knows if his administration is having any kind of effect at all .... maybe try asking his microwave oven " Speak for yourself ! What an insight you have , where did it come from? Your tooth brush, or did you ask your toilet ? No you probably asked your micro wave.... Fascinating how denial creates micro brains... Don't confuse your private opinion with facts! The ones I quoted are real.... but for some ...that is irrelevant ! | |||
"235,000 new jobs. Sounds impressive. However Mr Trump spent the entire election campaign saying the 5-6% unemployment rate was phoney and it was closer to 20%. So, was he bullshitting then, or is he bullshitting now? Simple question." What a nice "rational way" of avoiding the point ! New better paid jobs are a reality! How Trump , or any other politician spins unemployment figures is another issue that is only relevant when unemployment goes up , because that actually affects peoples lives negatively ! Now job creation , with wage rises is a good thing.....!
But I suppose because Trump is involved .... more better paid jobs is bad ..right? | |||
"235,000 new jobs. Sounds impressive. However Mr Trump spent the entire election campaign saying the 5-6% unemployment rate was phoney and it was closer to 20%. So, was he bullshitting then, or is he bullshitting now? Simple question. What a nice "rational way" of avoiding the point ! New better paid jobs are a reality! How Trump , or any other politician spins unemployment figures is another issue that is only relevant when unemployment goes up , because that actually affects peoples lives negatively ! Now job creation , with wage rises is a good thing.....!
But I suppose because Trump is involved .... more better paid jobs is bad ..right? "actually... tony.... they are correct... when obama came into the presidency the unemployment rate was 7.8%..... when he left office that was 4.9%.... and it have been dropping for the last 30 ish consecutive months.... and all the time he was saying during the campaign the figures were fiddled..... so were all the figures wrong right up until jan 19th... but as of jan 20 they became correct again??? I know... its a miracle!!!!!! | |||
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"Good post. Good to see the economy improving for US citizens. Hope it keeps up for his full term." Oh the trump thing. Doesn't matter. Not my thing. | |||
"nobody knows if his administration is having any kind of effect at all .... maybe try asking his microwave oven Speak for yourself ! What an insight you have , where did it come from? Your tooth brush, or did you ask your toilet ? No you probably asked your micro wave.... Fascinating how denial creates micro brains... Don't confuse your private opinion with facts! The ones I quoted are real.... but for some ...that is irrelevant ! "keep yer tampon in luv ...... i was merely quoting smellyanne wrongway and her tin foil hat accusation that don juan's microwave has been photographing him in his bedsit | |||
"235,000 new jobs. Sounds impressive. However Mr Trump spent the entire election campaign saying the 5-6% unemployment rate was phoney and it was closer to 20%. So, was he bullshitting then, or is he bullshitting now? Simple question. What a nice "rational way" of avoiding the point ! New better paid jobs are a reality! How Trump , or any other politician spins unemployment figures is another issue that is only relevant when unemployment goes up , because that actually affects peoples lives negatively ! Now job creation , with wage rises is a good thing.....!
But I suppose because Trump is involved .... more better paid jobs is bad ..right?
actually... tony.... they are correct...
when obama came into the presidency the unemployment rate was 7.8%..... when he left office that was 4.9%.... and it have been dropping for the last 30 ish consecutive months....
and all the time he was saying during the campaign the figures were fiddled.....
so were all the figures wrong right up until jan 19th... but as of jan 20 they became correct again???
I know... its a miracle!!!!!!"Well Fabio did you see me state anywhere anything that contradicts you statement? As I stated, spinning figures is normal whether under Obama or Trump ! One fact about your numbers is that, while unemployment did decrease under Obama , so did wages ! So while it is important for job figures to go up above expectations, for me the positive sign is wages going up ! This was a natural market reaction and not as a mandatory government mandated rise, as was tried ,but failed in the Obama time with rhetoric of minimum wage rise!  | |||
"Good post. Good to see the economy improving for US citizens. Hope it keeps up for his full term." 
Its always good for people if the outlook is positive, so I agree and hope it stays that way ! | |||
"Tony, what you have quoted isn't whining. It's an accurate description of what happened with no emotive language either way. Just because you don't like a fact - that Clinton got more votes than Trump - doesn't automatically make stating that fact 'whining,'. Ok ! lets say its not whining ! You are "stating a fact" The problem that fact is irrelevant , due to the US election system ! Like it or not the rules were followed, and Trump won in accordance to the rules! What you are doing, is de-legitimatising Trumps victory by stating Clinton had more votes. So , since you are aware of that is how the system works , and if your´e not whining, then am I to conclude that you are either a bad loser, intellectually dishonest , d*unk/drugged, or otherwise not in a sane frame of mind !
So which one is it ?
And by the way ,getting back to the topic! any thoughts? "Stating a true fact is "de-lgeitimising Trumps victory?" How do you figure that one out? Is that because he doesn't believe in facts, and just makes it up as he goes along? Again, look at the context of what was said. No-where did the post say the rules were not followed. In fact it said the opposite. It said that the rules *were* followed and that is why Trump won. The post was explaining why the polls might have seemed incorrect, as they effectively polled the popular vote, not the electoral college. Go back and re-read the post again. -Matt | |||
"Tony, what you have quoted isn't whining. It's an accurate description of what happened with no emotive language either way. Just because you don't like a fact - that Clinton got more votes than Trump - doesn't automatically make stating that fact 'whining,'. Ok ! lets say its not whining ! You are "stating a fact" The problem that fact is irrelevant , due to the US election system ! Like it or not the rules were followed, and Trump won in accordance to the rules! What you are doing, is de-legitimatising Trumps victory by stating Clinton had more votes. So , since you are aware of that is how the system works , and if your´e not whining, then am I to conclude that you are either a bad loser, intellectually dishonest , d*unk/drugged, or otherwise not in a sane frame of mind !
So which one is it ?
And by the way ,getting back to the topic! any thoughts?
Stating a true fact is "de-lgeitimising Trumps victory?" How do you figure that one out? Is that because he doesn't believe in facts, and just makes it up as he goes along?
Again, look at the context of what was said. No-where did the post say the rules were not followed. In fact it said the opposite. It said that the rules *were* followed and that is why Trump won. The post was explaining why the polls might have seemed incorrect, as they effectively polled the popular vote, not the electoral college. Go back and re-read the post again.
-Matt"lol.... Matt you keep going round in circles trying to catch your own tail ! Discussing polls , popular vote is a moot point ! A waste of time ! They were wrong !
Deflecting tactics and arguments are just that !
So I AGAIN suggest you take you own advice , and read the posts ! | |||
"good to see someone actually still believes in, and worships the polls lol they have been so accurate and spot on over past few years
Its not about worship. Polls are a useful tool. People look at the polls for the primaries and the general election and the polls only had 1 miss and that was the michigan primary for the democrats.
Hillarys big win in the raw vote meant she should have won the electoral college too but there was the slim chance Donald could still carve out a path to victory which he did. But the polls were exactly right with the vote totals.
Stop whining about the popular vote versus electoral college issue !
It shows ignorance or dishonesty, or both !
Not all democratic politcal systems are the same, and have variations that apply to local conditions and circumstances that.
If you don't know why and how the system in the US works, then I suggest you read up on the subject and educate yourself !
I am sure it will be time better spent then being on here posting BS! "You may want to invest in a literacy course, I wasnt complaining about the electoral college result. Have a read over my post and you'll realise that. What I actually said was that the polls were correct in their prediction of the popular vote. Take a moment and maybe you can try replying to what was actually said. That way you wont make a fool of yourself accusing me of ignorance when you cant even read a couple paragraphs without getting yourself confused. | |||
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"Yeah it's working. Hundreds of illegals are making illegal crossings into Canada...must be to escape persecution from Trump's secret police!? I can't understand why they don't go to Mexico...maybe it's because they're racists and/or they expect Trudeau will give them a big hug and a fat cheque when they get there.. No its just really simple, the Mexican president is quite likely a bigger scumbag than trump, so you move to the states and when they vote in a scumbag you move to Canada. Its called voting with your feet "They're not Mexicans and it's called 'asylum shopping'...by illegal economic migrants. | |||
"Tony, what you have quoted isn't whining. It's an accurate description of what happened with no emotive language either way. Just because you don't like a fact - that Clinton got more votes than Trump - doesn't automatically make stating that fact 'whining,'. Ok ! lets say its not whining ! You are "stating a fact" The problem that fact is irrelevant , due to the US election system ! Like it or not the rules were followed, and Trump won in accordance to the rules! What you are doing, is de-legitimatising Trumps victory by stating Clinton had more votes. So , since you are aware of that is how the system works , and if your´e not whining, then am I to conclude that you are either a bad loser, intellectually dishonest , d*unk/drugged, or otherwise not in a sane frame of mind !
So which one is it ?
And by the way ,getting back to the topic! any thoughts?
Stating a true fact is "de-lgeitimising Trumps victory?" How do you figure that one out? Is that because he doesn't believe in facts, and just makes it up as he goes along?
Again, look at the context of what was said. No-where did the post say the rules were not followed. In fact it said the opposite. It said that the rules *were* followed and that is why Trump won. The post was explaining why the polls might have seemed incorrect, as they effectively polled the popular vote, not the electoral college. Go back and re-read the post again.
-Matt
lol.... Matt you keep going round in circles trying to catch your own tail !
Discussing polls , popular vote is a moot point !
A waste of time !
They were wrong !
Deflecting tactics and arguments are just that !
So I AGAIN suggest you take you own advice , and read the posts ! "Ahhhhhhh I get it now. You've watched that video on YouTube about Kellyanne Conway's argument technique. It really is quite fascinating isn't it? The tactic of picking up a single word in a question and then answering or arguing about a totally different point, but mentioning that word as many times as you can so it seems like, if you are not paying attention, that the question has been answered. Ahh yes, here it is: http://www.vox.com/videos/2017/2/13/14597968/kellyanne-conway-tricks Once you see it you then realise how much she and the breitbart / infowars fans use it. -Matt | |||
"Tony, what you have quoted isn't whining. It's an accurate description of what happened with no emotive language either way. Just because you don't like a fact - that Clinton got more votes than Trump - doesn't automatically make stating that fact 'whining,'. Ok ! lets say its not whining ! You are "stating a fact" The problem that fact is irrelevant , due to the US election system ! Like it or not the rules were followed, and Trump won in accordance to the rules! What you are doing, is de-legitimatising Trumps victory by stating Clinton had more votes. So , since you are aware of that is how the system works , and if your´e not whining, then am I to conclude that you are either a bad loser, intellectually dishonest , d*unk/drugged, or otherwise not in a sane frame of mind !
So which one is it ?
And by the way ,getting back to the topic! any thoughts?
Stating a true fact is "de-lgeitimising Trumps victory?" How do you figure that one out? Is that because he doesn't believe in facts, and just makes it up as he goes along?
Again, look at the context of what was said. No-where did the post say the rules were not followed. In fact it said the opposite. It said that the rules *were* followed and that is why Trump won. The post was explaining why the polls might have seemed incorrect, as they effectively polled the popular vote, not the electoral college. Go back and re-read the post again.
-Matt
lol.... Matt you keep going round in circles trying to catch your own tail !
Discussing polls , popular vote is a moot point !
A waste of time !
They were wrong !
Deflecting tactics and arguments are just that !
So I AGAIN suggest you take you own advice , and read the posts !
Ahhhhhhh I get it now. You've watched that video on YouTube about Kellyanne Conway's argument technique. It really is quite fascinating isn't it? The tactic of picking up a single word in a question and then answering or arguing about a totally different point, but mentioning that word as many times as you can so it seems like, if you are not paying attention, that the question has been answered.
Ahh yes, here it is:
http://www.vox.com/videos/2017/2/13/14597968/kellyanne-conway-tricks
Once you see it you then realise how much she and the breitbart / infowars fans use it.
-Matt"I'm seeing that used more here as well. | |||
| |||
"Lots of polls put Hillary Clinton down to win the electoral collage votes comfortably, i think this video demonstrates perfectly..... www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0TaegQ-kw Enjoy "FFS it's College NOT Collage | |||
"i prefer this version of her trick... this one from the daily show.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TreyZMjl_SA" Ha! That is awesome
-Matt | |||
"Lots of polls put Hillary Clinton down to win the electoral collage votes comfortably, i think this video demonstrates perfectly..... www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0TaegQ-kw Enjoy "There were no polls for the electoral college. Thats not how it works. There were national popular vote polls and state by state polls. The data on the polls were good but people tend to ignore things like the margin of error which polls have to show how accurate it is. If you'd read 538.com in the hours before election day you'd have found this analysis of the polls https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-the-state-of-the-states/ Which turned out to be very, very close to showing how Trump would win. The data was good, how commentators interpreted wasnt. | |||
| |||
"Lots of polls put Hillary Clinton down to win the electoral collage votes comfortably, i think this video demonstrates perfectly..... www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0TaegQ-kw Enjoy
There were no polls for the electoral college. Thats not how it works. There were national popular vote polls and state by state polls.
The data on the polls were good but people tend to ignore things like the margin of error which polls have to show how accurate it is.
If you'd read 538.com in the hours before election day you'd have found this analysis of the polls
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-the-state-of-the-states/
Which turned out to be very, very close to showing how Trump would win. The data was good, how commentators interpreted wasnt."
Nice clarification !
Now let me be careful not to "misread" and need to get a "literacy course", because what is written literally , doesn't always translate into a single message !
Sometimes there are multiple interpretations or messages implied , so let me see if I get what you are implying right !
"If you'd read 538.com in the hours before election day you'd have found this analysis of the polls
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-the-state-of-the-states/
Which turned out to be very, very close to showing how Trump would win. The data was good, how commentators interpreted wasn't."
Translation :
Data was good , use and interpretation was bad ?
So this begs the question , or rather questions .....
Was the mainstream media (partial exception would be Fox news) unprofessional , incompetent , biased or all of these when covering and reporting on the campaign and election ?
My idea is YES !
What about yours ?
In the light of this , does it not mean you are validating Trumps position on Fake news and media ? | |||
"Tony, why do you take it so personally that he didn't win the popular vote? " lol.....
Where did you get idea?
I dont give a shit!
like him ,or not, He won... | |||
"i prefer this version of her trick... this one from the daily show.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TreyZMjl_SA Ha! That is awesome
-Matt"
Awsome indeed Matt!
But utterly stupid !
I like humour and satire , in fact I currently make a living from it!
But there is a difference between humour
satire, and comedy, as entertainment and using it as an open political weapon !
This clip indulges in doing exactly what they accuse the target of doing !
A double standard by the left..as usual.
Its funny , that when the right applies what the left has been doing for ages , its bad and criticised !
Spin is nothing new in any political spectrum !
But sometimes its not purely spin , there is more to it !
But some , just don't get it !
I remember a statement that someone on here, the forum, could not wrap their head around , and thus, saw it as non sense and ridiculous :
"The leak was real, but the news were false"
Get it ? | |||
"Lots of polls put Hillary Clinton down to win the electoral collage votes comfortably, i think this video demonstrates perfectly..... www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0TaegQ-kw Enjoy
FFS it's College NOT Collage"
lol.... It was a "collage" in the college,.... of interests to get Trump in... | |||
"i prefer this version of her trick... this one from the daily show.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TreyZMjl_SA Ha! That is awesome
-Matt
Awsome indeed Matt!
But utterly stupid !
I like humour and satire , in fact I currently make a living from it!
But there is a difference between humour
satire, and comedy, as entertainment and using it as an open political weapon !
This clip indulges in doing exactly what they accuse the target of doing !
A double standard by the left..as usual.
Its funny , that when the right applies what the left has been doing for ages , its bad and criticised !
Spin is nothing new in any political spectrum !
But sometimes its not purely spin , there is more to it !
But some , just don't get it !
I remember a statement that someone on here, the forum, could not wrap their head around , and thus, saw it as non sense and ridiculous :
"The leak was real, but the news were false"
Get it ? "You saw that clip above as an 'open political weapon'? Wow... considering this coming from someone who supports the bone broth merchant Alex Jones and his rabid associates. I'd love to hear your views on Spitting Image!
"This clip indulges in doing exactly what they accuse the target of doing " -- yes it is called 'mocking them', and the very definition of satire: "the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues."
-Matt | |||
"Tony, why do you take it so personally that he didn't win the popular vote? lol.....
Where did you get idea?
I dont give a shit!
like him ,or not, He won... "He won the popular vote did he? No, he lost the popular vote. See, you can't even bring yourself to admit simple facts. Why is that? | |||
| |||
"Tony, why do you take it so personally that he didn't win the popular vote? lol.....
Where did you get idea?
I dont give a shit!
like him ,or not, He won...
He won the popular vote did he? No, he lost the popular vote. See, you can't even bring yourself to admit simple facts. Why is that? "Lol.... Jesus Christ ! read what is written ! Are you spinning what I wrote, or just being/playing stupid!
HE WON THE PRESIDENCY !
LIVE with it !
Be honest ! Dont be puerile and distort the narrative !  | |||
"i prefer this version of her trick... this one from the daily show.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TreyZMjl_SA Ha! That is awesome
-Matt
Awsome indeed Matt!
But utterly stupid !
I like humour and satire , in fact I currently make a living from it!
But there is a difference between humour
satire, and comedy, as entertainment and using it as an open political weapon !
This clip indulges in doing exactly what they accuse the target of doing !
A double standard by the left..as usual.
Its funny , that when the right applies what the left has been doing for ages , its bad and criticised !
Spin is nothing new in any political spectrum !
But sometimes its not purely spin , there is more to it !
But some , just don't get it !
I remember a statement that someone on here, the forum, could not wrap their head around , and thus, saw it as non sense and ridiculous :
"The leak was real, but the news were false"
Get it ?
You saw that clip above as an 'open political weapon'? Wow... considering this coming from someone who supports the bone broth merchant Alex Jones and his rabid associates.
I'd love to hear your views on Spitting Image!
"This clip indulges in doing exactly what they accuse the target of doing " -- yes it is called 'mocking them', and the very definition of satire: "the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues."
-Matt"mmm..... how naive are you ?
I have no issue with satire , but when its all one sided , then what do you call that ?
When its prevalent , and repeated by all comics, over , and over again .... as Goebells put it "A lie repeated becomes the truth" , or at least influences public perception !
Remember Sarah Palin !
" I can see Russia from my house" | |||
"Tony, why do you take it so personally that he didn't win the popular vote? lol.....
Where did you get idea?
I dont give a shit!
like him ,or not, He won...
He won the popular vote did he? No, he lost the popular vote. See, you can't even bring yourself to admit simple facts. Why is that?
Lol....
Jesus Christ ! read what is written ! Are you spinning what I wrote, or just being/playing stupid!
HE WON THE PRESIDENCY !
LIVE with it !
Be honest ! Dont be puerile and distort the narrative ! "But I'm asking you why you find it so hard, and take it so personally that he lost the popular vote. Why can't you accept that more people voted for Clinton than for Trump? | |||
"i prefer this version of her trick... this one from the daily show.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TreyZMjl_SA Ha! That is awesome
-Matt
Awsome indeed Matt!
But utterly stupid !
I like humour and satire , in fact I currently make a living from it!
But there is a difference between humour
satire, and comedy, as entertainment and using it as an open political weapon !
This clip indulges in doing exactly what they accuse the target of doing !
A double standard by the left..as usual.
Its funny , that when the right applies what the left has been doing for ages , its bad and criticised !
Spin is nothing new in any political spectrum !
But sometimes its not purely spin , there is more to it !
But some , just don't get it !
I remember a statement that someone on here, the forum, could not wrap their head around , and thus, saw it as non sense and ridiculous :
"The leak was real, but the news were false"
Get it ?
You saw that clip above as an 'open political weapon'? Wow... considering this coming from someone who supports the bone broth merchant Alex Jones and his rabid associates.
I'd love to hear your views on Spitting Image!
"This clip indulges in doing exactly what they accuse the target of doing " -- yes it is called 'mocking them', and the very definition of satire: "the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues."
-Matt
mmm..... how naive are you ?
I have no issue with satire , but when its all one sided , then what do you call that ?
When its prevalent , and repeated by all comics, over , and over again .... as Goebells put it "A lie repeated becomes the truth" , or at least influences public perception !
Remember Sarah Palin !
" I can see Russia from my house" "Naive? Oh go and cry into your milk if you can't handle a bit of satire. Yes, it is one sided... I don't think Trump has the balls, intellect, or sense of humour to retaliate. If he and his administration didn't spout so much complete and utter nonsense, then the satirists wouldn't be having such a field day. You do remember this is from a guy who was whipping up his followers in chants of "Lock her up!" about Clinton? Inciting them at his rallies to take people outside for a beating... and you a scared of Trevor Noah and the likes? -Matt | |||
"Tony, why do you take it so personally that he didn't win the popular vote? lol.....
Where did you get idea?
I dont give a shit!
like him ,or not, He won...
He won the popular vote did he? No, he lost the popular vote. See, you can't even bring yourself to admit simple facts. Why is that?
Lol....
Jesus Christ ! read what is written ! Are you spinning what I wrote, or just being/playing stupid!
HE WON THE PRESIDENCY !
LIVE with it !
Be honest ! Dont be puerile and distort the narrative !
But I'm asking you why you find it so hard, and take it so personally that he lost the popular vote. Why can't you accept that more people voted for Clinton than for Trump? "Have you been drinking or smoking something , has your mind blocked ?
I will quote and repeat what I wrote BEFORE !
"Where did you get idea?
I dont give a shit! "
"lol.... Matt you keep going round in circles trying to catch your own tail !
Discussing polls , popular vote is a moot point !"
I have NO problem with Hillary winning the popular vote !
But its meaningless in the context of the US political system ! | |||
"i prefer this version of her trick... this one from the daily show.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TreyZMjl_SA Ha! That is awesome
-Matt
Awsome indeed Matt!
But utterly stupid !
I like humour and satire , in fact I currently make a living from it!
But there is a difference between humour
satire, and comedy, as entertainment and using it as an open political weapon !
This clip indulges in doing exactly what they accuse the target of doing !
A double standard by the left..as usual.
Its funny , that when the right applies what the left has been doing for ages , its bad and criticised !
Spin is nothing new in any political spectrum !
But sometimes its not purely spin , there is more to it !
But some , just don't get it !
I remember a statement that someone on here, the forum, could not wrap their head around , and thus, saw it as non sense and ridiculous :
"The leak was real, but the news were false"
Get it ?
You saw that clip above as an 'open political weapon'? Wow... considering this coming from someone who supports the bone broth merchant Alex Jones and his rabid associates.
I'd love to hear your views on Spitting Image!
"This clip indulges in doing exactly what they accuse the target of doing " -- yes it is called 'mocking them', and the very definition of satire: "the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues."
-Matt
mmm..... how naive are you ?
I have no issue with satire , but when its all one sided , then what do you call that ?
When its prevalent , and repeated by all comics, over , and over again .... as Goebells put it "A lie repeated becomes the truth" , or at least influences public perception !
Remember Sarah Palin !
" I can see Russia from my house"
Naive? Oh go and cry into your milk if you can't handle a bit of satire. Yes, it is one sided... I don't think Trump has the balls, intellect, or sense of humour to retaliate. If he and his administration didn't spout so much complete and utter nonsense, then the satirists wouldn't be having such a field day. You do remember this is from a guy who was whipping up his followers in chants of "Lock her up!" about Clinton? Inciting them at his rallies to take people outside for a beating... and you a scared of Trevor Noah and the likes?
-Matt"I rest my case !
You are naive and blind and intellectually dishonest !
One cannot reason with fanatics !
Campaign is over ! He won , and by the way , who was organising the disruption in the Trump rallies ?
Oh.... while I do satire for a living(part time) you say I cant handle it..lol...
But... in your own words do you have" the balls, intellect" to handle facts? | |||
"Tony, why do you take it so personally that he didn't win the popular vote? lol.....
Where did you get idea?
I dont give a shit!
like him ,or not, He won...
He won the popular vote did he? No, he lost the popular vote. See, you can't even bring yourself to admit simple facts. Why is that?
Lol....
Jesus Christ ! read what is written ! Are you spinning what I wrote, or just being/playing stupid!
HE WON THE PRESIDENCY !
LIVE with it !
Be honest ! Dont be puerile and distort the narrative !
But I'm asking you why you find it so hard, and take it so personally that he lost the popular vote. Why can't you accept that more people voted for Clinton than for Trump? "By the same token, Brexit won the popular vote here in the UK. Why do you find it so hard and take it so personally that Remain lost the popular vote. Why can't you accept that more people voted for Leave than for Remain? | |||
"i prefer this version of her trick... this one from the daily show.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TreyZMjl_SA Ha! That is awesome
-Matt
Awsome indeed Matt!
But utterly stupid !
I like humour and satire , in fact I currently make a living from it!
But there is a difference between humour
satire, and comedy, as entertainment and using it as an open political weapon !
This clip indulges in doing exactly what they accuse the target of doing !
A double standard by the left..as usual.
Its funny , that when the right applies what the left has been doing for ages , its bad and criticised !
Spin is nothing new in any political spectrum !
But sometimes its not purely spin , there is more to it !
But some , just don't get it !
I remember a statement that someone on here, the forum, could not wrap their head around , and thus, saw it as non sense and ridiculous :
"The leak was real, but the news were false"
Get it ?
You saw that clip above as an 'open political weapon'? Wow... considering this coming from someone who supports the bone broth merchant Alex Jones and his rabid associates.
I'd love to hear your views on Spitting Image!
"This clip indulges in doing exactly what they accuse the target of doing " -- yes it is called 'mocking them', and the very definition of satire: "the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues."
-Matt
mmm..... how naive are you ?
I have no issue with satire , but when its all one sided , then what do you call that ?
When its prevalent , and repeated by all comics, over , and over again .... as Goebells put it "A lie repeated becomes the truth" , or at least influences public perception !
Remember Sarah Palin !
" I can see Russia from my house"
Naive? Oh go and cry into your milk if you can't handle a bit of satire. Yes, it is one sided... I don't think Trump has the balls, intellect, or sense of humour to retaliate. If he and his administration didn't spout so much complete and utter nonsense, then the satirists wouldn't be having such a field day. You do remember this is from a guy who was whipping up his followers in chants of "Lock her up!" about Clinton? Inciting them at his rallies to take people outside for a beating... and you a scared of Trevor Noah and the likes?
-Matt
I rest my case !
You are naive and blind and intellectually dishonest !
One cannot reason with fanatics !
Campaign is over ! He won , and by the way , who was organising the disruption in the Trump rallies ?
Oh.... while I do satire for a living(part time) you say I cant handle it..lol...
But... in your own words do you have" the balls, intellect" to handle facts? "Handle which facts? I don't think I've disputed any facts. You've gone off on some weird rant about basically 'Trump won, get over it'.... despite the fact that no-one said anything to the contrary. It's like some kind of paranoia you have... I've not disputed Trump's win at all. The original post that started this tangent... the one you started your rant about, didn't dispute Trump's win. He won, end of story... why are you trying to see disputes that don't exist? -Matt | |||
"Tony, why do you take it so personally that he didn't win the popular vote? lol.....
Where did you get idea?
I dont give a shit!
like him ,or not, He won...
He won the popular vote did he? No, he lost the popular vote. See, you can't even bring yourself to admit simple facts. Why is that?
Lol....
Jesus Christ ! read what is written ! Are you spinning what I wrote, or just being/playing stupid!
HE WON THE PRESIDENCY !
LIVE with it !
Be honest ! Dont be puerile and distort the narrative !
But I'm asking you why you find it so hard, and take it so personally that he lost the popular vote. Why can't you accept that more people voted for Clinton than for Trump?
Have you been drinking or smoking something , has your mind blocked ?
I will quote and repeat what I wrote BEFORE !
"Where did you get idea?
I dont give a shit! "
"lol.... Matt you keep going round in circles trying to catch your own tail !
Discussing polls , popular vote is a moot point !"
I have NO problem with Hillary winning the popular vote !
But its meaningless in the context of the US political system ! "Elections have rules that are set out at the start which all sides/parties agree to. The winner of the EU referendum was done on the popular vote, Leave won, end of. The winner of the USA Presidential election is determined on the electoral college vote and Trump is the clear winner on those set of rules, end of. The Conservatives won the general election here in the UK on the first past the post system, end of. Those are the rules and the results stand. | |||
"Tony, why do you take it so personally that he didn't win the popular vote? lol.....
Where did you get idea?
I dont give a shit!
like him ,or not, He won...
He won the popular vote did he? No, he lost the popular vote. See, you can't even bring yourself to admit simple facts. Why is that?
Lol....
Jesus Christ ! read what is written ! Are you spinning what I wrote, or just being/playing stupid!
HE WON THE PRESIDENCY !
LIVE with it !
Be honest ! Dont be puerile and distort the narrative !
But I'm asking you why you find it so hard, and take it so personally that he lost the popular vote. Why can't you accept that more people voted for Clinton than for Trump?
Have you been drinking or smoking something , has your mind blocked ?
I will quote and repeat what I wrote BEFORE !
"Where did you get idea?
I dont give a shit! "
"lol.... Matt you keep going round in circles trying to catch your own tail !
Discussing polls , popular vote is a moot point !"
I have NO problem with Hillary winning the popular vote !
But its meaningless in the context of the US political system !
Elections have rules that are set out at the start which all sides/parties agree to. The winner of the EU referendum was done on the popular vote, Leave won, end of. The winner of the USA Presidential election is determined on the electoral college vote and Trump is the clear winner on those set of rules, end of. The Conservatives won the general election here in the UK on the first past the post system, end of. Those are the rules and the results stand. "
-Matt | |||
"Tony, why do you take it so personally that he didn't win the popular vote? lol.....
Where did you get idea?
I dont give a shit!
like him ,or not, He won...
He won the popular vote did he? No, he lost the popular vote. See, you can't even bring yourself to admit simple facts. Why is that?
Lol....
Jesus Christ ! read what is written ! Are you spinning what I wrote, or just being/playing stupid!
HE WON THE PRESIDENCY !
LIVE with it !
Be honest ! Dont be puerile and distort the narrative !
But I'm asking you why you find it so hard, and take it so personally that he lost the popular vote. Why can't you accept that more people voted for Clinton than for Trump?
Have you been drinking or smoking something , has your mind blocked ?
I will quote and repeat what I wrote BEFORE !
"Where did you get idea?
I dont give a shit! "
"lol.... Matt you keep going round in circles trying to catch your own tail !
Discussing polls , popular vote is a moot point !"
I have NO problem with Hillary winning the popular vote !
But its meaningless in the context of the US political system !
Elections have rules that are set out at the start which all sides/parties agree to. The winner of the EU referendum was done on the popular vote, Leave won, end of. The winner of the USA Presidential election is determined on the electoral college vote and Trump is the clear winner on those set of rules, end of. The Conservatives won the general election here in the UK on the first past the post system, end of. Those are the rules and the results stand. " | |||
"i prefer this version of her trick... this one from the daily show.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TreyZMjl_SA Ha! That is awesome
-Matt
Awsome indeed Matt!
But utterly stupid !
I like humour and satire , in fact I currently make a living from it!
But there is a difference between humour
satire, and comedy, as entertainment and using it as an open political weapon !
This clip indulges in doing exactly what they accuse the target of doing !
A double standard by the left..as usual.
Its funny , that when the right applies what the left has been doing for ages , its bad and criticised !
Spin is nothing new in any political spectrum !
But sometimes its not purely spin , there is more to it !
But some , just don't get it !
I remember a statement that someone on here, the forum, could not wrap their head around , and thus, saw it as non sense and ridiculous :
"The leak was real, but the news were false"
Get it ?
You saw that clip above as an 'open political weapon'? Wow... considering this coming from someone who supports the bone broth merchant Alex Jones and his rabid associates.
I'd love to hear your views on Spitting Image!
"This clip indulges in doing exactly what they accuse the target of doing " -- yes it is called 'mocking them', and the very definition of satire: "the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues."
-Matt
mmm..... how naive are you ?
I have no issue with satire , but when its all one sided , then what do you call that ?
When its prevalent , and repeated by all comics, over , and over again .... as Goebells put it "A lie repeated becomes the truth" , or at least influences public perception !
Remember Sarah Palin !
" I can see Russia from my house"
Naive? Oh go and cry into your milk if you can't handle a bit of satire. Yes, it is one sided... I don't think Trump has the balls, intellect, or sense of humour to retaliate. If he and his administration didn't spout so much complete and utter nonsense, then the satirists wouldn't be having such a field day. You do remember this is from a guy who was whipping up his followers in chants of "Lock her up!" about Clinton? Inciting them at his rallies to take people outside for a beating... and you a scared of Trevor Noah and the likes?
-Matt
I rest my case !
You are naive and blind and intellectually dishonest !
One cannot reason with fanatics !
Campaign is over ! He won , and by the way , who was organising the disruption in the Trump rallies ?
Oh.... while I do satire for a living(part time) you say I cant handle it..lol...
But... in your own words do you have" the balls, intellect" to handle facts?
Handle which facts? I don't think I've disputed any facts. You've gone off on some weird rant about basically 'Trump won, get over it'.... despite the fact that no-one said anything to the contrary. It's like some kind of paranoia you have... I've not disputed Trump's win at all. The original post that started this tangent... the one you started your rant about, didn't dispute Trump's win. He won, end of story... why are you trying to see disputes that don't exist?
-Matt"Disputes that don't exist...paranoia....
Freudian lapse right ..... ?
When one considers the post history ,You are referring to yourself ! | |||
"Lots of polls put Hillary Clinton down to win the electoral collage votes comfortably, i think this video demonstrates perfectly..... www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0TaegQ-kw Enjoy
There were no polls for the electoral college. Thats not how it works. There were national popular vote polls and state by state polls.
The data on the polls were good but people tend to ignore things like the margin of error which polls have to show how accurate it is.
If you'd read 538.com in the hours before election day you'd have found this analysis of the polls
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-the-state-of-the-states/
Which turned out to be very, very close to showing how Trump would win. The data was good, how commentators interpreted wasnt.
Nice clarification !
Now let me be careful not to "misread" and need to get a "literacy course", because what is written literally , doesn't always translate into a single message !
Sometimes there are multiple interpretations or messages implied , so let me see if I get what you are implying right !
"If you'd read 538.com in the hours before election day you'd have found this analysis of the polls
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-the-state-of-the-states/
Which turned out to be very, very close to showing how Trump would win. The data was good, how commentators interpreted wasn't."
Translation :
Data was good , use and interpretation was bad ?
So this begs the question , or rather questions .....
Was the mainstream media (partial exception would be Fox news) unprofessional , incompetent , biased or all of these when covering and reporting on the campaign and election ?
My idea is YES !
What about yours ?
In the light of this , does it not mean you are validating Trumps position on Fake news and media ? "What happened, in my view, is the same thing that happens every time people cover the presidential election. The electoral college demands in depth and nuanced coverage, the likes of which you'll see at 538. Mainstream news, right or left, doesnt have the time or the attention of the audience to sit through that kind of coverage so they go to the shorthand of the popular vote too often. And in their defence it worked for every election except this one (everyone agreed that Bush v Gore was too close to call with any accuracy in 2000). But it is certainly lazy journalism, not deliberately innaccurate which is a major difference between what Trump claims and whats reality. Fake news is outright lies such as FOX claiming that solar power wont work as well in Florida as it does in Germany because The Sunshine State gets less sun than Germany Fake news is stuff you see on reddit, 4chan and facebook regarding pizzagate (which was ridiculous even watching it unfold).
The election forecasts were based on good information that was simplified down too much. But this was also an extremely narrow path to victory for Trump (that doesnt take away from his win) in fact this was really the only scenario that would have won him the election. Its like if you made predictions last week on who'd win the FA Cup. Sure Lincoln had a very slim chance, but it wouldnt be malicious of the media to say that one of the premierships top 6 is gonna end up winning it, particularly since thats been the case for the last 2 decades or more. | |||
"i prefer this version of her trick... this one from the daily show.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TreyZMjl_SA Ha! That is awesome
-Matt
Awsome indeed Matt!
But utterly stupid !
I like humour and satire , in fact I currently make a living from it!
But there is a difference between humour
satire, and comedy, as entertainment and using it as an open political weapon !
This clip indulges in doing exactly what they accuse the target of doing !
A double standard by the left..as usual.
Its funny , that when the right applies what the left has been doing for ages , its bad and criticised !
Spin is nothing new in any political spectrum !
But sometimes its not purely spin , there is more to it !
But some , just don't get it !
I remember a statement that someone on here, the forum, could not wrap their head around , and thus, saw it as non sense and ridiculous :
"The leak was real, but the news were false"
Get it ?
You saw that clip above as an 'open political weapon'? Wow... considering this coming from someone who supports the bone broth merchant Alex Jones and his rabid associates.
I'd love to hear your views on Spitting Image!
"This clip indulges in doing exactly what they accuse the target of doing " -- yes it is called 'mocking them', and the very definition of satire: "the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues."
-Matt
mmm..... how naive are you ?
I have no issue with satire , but when its all one sided , then what do you call that ?
When its prevalent , and repeated by all comics, over , and over again .... as Goebells put it "A lie repeated becomes the truth" , or at least influences public perception !
Remember Sarah Palin !
" I can see Russia from my house"
Naive? Oh go and cry into your milk if you can't handle a bit of satire. Yes, it is one sided... I don't think Trump has the balls, intellect, or sense of humour to retaliate. If he and his administration didn't spout so much complete and utter nonsense, then the satirists wouldn't be having such a field day. You do remember this is from a guy who was whipping up his followers in chants of "Lock her up!" about Clinton? Inciting them at his rallies to take people outside for a beating... and you a scared of Trevor Noah and the likes?
-Matt
I rest my case !
You are naive and blind and intellectually dishonest !
One cannot reason with fanatics !
Campaign is over ! He won , and by the way , who was organising the disruption in the Trump rallies ?
Oh.... while I do satire for a living(part time) you say I cant handle it..lol...
But... in your own words do you have" the balls, intellect" to handle facts?
Handle which facts? I don't think I've disputed any facts. You've gone off on some weird rant about basically 'Trump won, get over it'.... despite the fact that no-one said anything to the contrary. It's like some kind of paranoia you have... I've not disputed Trump's win at all. The original post that started this tangent... the one you started your rant about, didn't dispute Trump's win. He won, end of story... why are you trying to see disputes that don't exist?
-Matt
Disputes that don't exist...paranoia....
Freudian lapse right ..... ?
When one considers the post history ,You are referring to yourself ! "Whatever Tony... you got up, mis-read something, went on a rant, then have spent the rest of the thread trying to invent a dispute to distract from your initial misplaced rant when I mentioned it. You then accuse myself and several others of 'intellectual dishonesty'. -Matt | |||
And don't forget they are in a studio in New York !
It is lazy superficial reporting , I personally have solar and am aware of the benefits and pitfalls ,but the report does hit some nails on the head.
The point is you picked something up and run with it, as some news outlets do these days , without context and verification !
That my friend is a typical example of fake news !
But feel free to watch for yourself :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJN0B2RIIMI | |||
"Wow... Explicitlyrics You are now promoting FAKE NEWS too ? "Fake news is outright lies such as FOX claiming that solar power wont work as well in Florida as it does in Germany because The Sunshine State gets less sun than Germany Fake news is stuff you see on reddit, 4chan and facebook regarding pizzagate (which was ridiculous even watching it unfold)." Wonder where you got this Pearl ! An example of "playing" with information No mention is made of Florida at all ! While the guest´s response is a bit silly in the way its formulated , what she meant about the "East coast" is actually about the Atlantic north east of the US ! Normally most Americans are dismissive of the lazy sunny south.
And don't forget they are in a studio in New York !
It is lazy superficial reporting , I personally have solar and am aware of the benefits and pitfalls ,but the report does hit some nails on the head.
The point is you picked something up and run with it, as some news outlets do these days , without context and verification !
That my friend is a typical example of fake news !
But feel free to watch for yourself :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJN0B2RIIMI"Well lets compare. New York gets 2,534 hours of sun per year, Essen in Germany gets 1454. In fact theres no German city that gets close to the amount of sunshine that New York City gets. So I think the context proves my point. Lets also look at a few other things that the report was either wrong on or neglected to mention: The subsidies for oil, gas and coal dwarf the subsidies for green energy. In fact the green energy lobby wants subsidies for all energy companies removed so that they can fight and win on a level playing field. Solar on its own employs more Americans than the entire American fossil fuel industry combined. Businesses are certainly not turning away from solar even Shell are investing another billion dollars into renewables this year and have openly told their shareholders that there is huge risk to their business as solar is winning consumers and businesses over. Not to mention that solar is consistently dropping in cost month after month and is 60% less than it was just over 5 years ago. I hear your point for more detail and more context but those things just reinforce my point and further show the dishonesty of FOX in this case. | |||
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"Tony, you must have a fucking aneurism every time the weather report comes on. I can see you stood in your living room, brolly in hand, frothing at the mouth yelling "FAKE NEWS!!" at the TV every time they get the prediction wrong. Lol -Matt" Leave Tony alone. He needs no corrections. | |||
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"Tony, you must have a fucking aneurism every time the weather report comes on. I can see you stood in your living room, brolly in hand, frothing at the mouth yelling "FAKE NEWS!!" at the TV every time they get the prediction wrong. Lol -Matt" Lol.... how dramatic !
Ever though about writing fiction drama !
But you would be wrong again ...lol...
Very seldom do you need a brolly here...and...
Portuguese met service is quite accurate... | |||
"One thing Trump and Brexit has done is brought out all the angry little men. It is almost as if some people now feel legitimised to be full of anger and aggression now that they have a strong man figure to wank over at night. Just our opinion, but the world (certainly our world) is open to love and happiness and firmly closed to hate and anger. " When has the politics of hate every achieved anything good? Where is the love people? | |||
"Tony, you must have a fucking aneurism every time the weather report comes on. I can see you stood in your living room, brolly in hand, frothing at the mouth yelling "FAKE NEWS!!" at the TV every time they get the prediction wrong. Lol -Matt Leave Tony alone. He needs no corrections. "Yeah I think some people are a little bit too fragile to accept political reality and have to make up little stories to protect themselves. | |||
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"Tony, you must have a fucking aneurism every time the weather report comes on. I can see you stood in your living room, brolly in hand, frothing at the mouth yelling "FAKE NEWS!!" at the TV every time they get the prediction wrong. Lol -Matt Lol.... how dramatic !
Ever though about writing fiction drama !
But you would be wrong again ...lol...
Very seldom do you need a brolly here...and...
Portuguese met service is quite accurate... "Nahhh... I might join you in satire
-Matt | |||
"One thing Trump and Brexit has done is brought out all the angry little men. It is almost as if some people now feel legitimised to be full of anger and aggression now that they have a strong man figure to wank over at night. Just our opinion, but the world (certainly our world) is open to love and happiness and firmly closed to hate and anger. "
Mine too !
And while love doesn't necessarily equate to sex, it sometimes seems on here that some forget we are on a swinging site!
But I have learned that all it takes to ruin the love, peace, and an open heart, is to be complacent with naive politically correct idealistic idiots full of "good intentions" to ruin it for everybody !
Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty !
Si vis pacem, para bellum | |||
"Tony, you must have a fucking aneurism every time the weather report comes on. I can see you stood in your living room, brolly in hand, frothing at the mouth yelling "FAKE NEWS!!" at the TV every time they get the prediction wrong. Lol -Matt Lol.... how dramatic !
Ever though about writing fiction drama !
But you would be wrong again ...lol...
Very seldom do you need a brolly here...and...
Portuguese met service is quite accurate...
Nahhh... I might join you in satire
-Matt"matt... don't listen to tony.... he's trying to "conway" you!!!! | |||
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"Tony, you must have a fucking aneurism every time the weather report comes on. I can see you stood in your living room, brolly in hand, frothing at the mouth yelling "FAKE NEWS!!" at the TV every time they get the prediction wrong. Lol -Matt Lol.... how dramatic !
Ever though about writing fiction drama !
But you would be wrong again ...lol...
Very seldom do you need a brolly here...and...
Portuguese met service is quite accurate...
Nahhh... I might join you in satire
-Matt"You are welcome !
If come down my way you can even see my show !
I will even give you directions to the nude beach in the area !
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"Big Tony why so angry were is the love man. "Hi BOB ! been missing you !
Now where is the love.... mmm...
Ask me again when you are Verified !
OOps ! Sorry ... forgot you are on Fab for the Forums ! | |||
"Tony, you must have a fucking aneurism every time the weather report comes on. I can see you stood in your living room, brolly in hand, frothing at the mouth yelling "FAKE NEWS!!" at the TV every time they get the prediction wrong. Lol -Matt Lol.... how dramatic !
Ever though about writing fiction drama !
But you would be wrong again ...lol...
Very seldom do you need a brolly here...and...
Portuguese met service is quite accurate...
Nahhh... I might join you in satire
-Matt
matt... don't listen to tony.... he's trying to "conway" you!!!! "
Good one Fabio ! You finally figured it out ! | |||
"Big Tony why so angry were is the love man.
Hi BOB ! been missing you !
Now where is the love.... mmm...
Ask me again when you are Verified !
OOps ! Sorry ... forgot you are on Fab for the Forums ! "you d*unk bro.? | |||
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"his healthcare bill went really well then " That and his immigration controls.... So far he has taken credit for historical data and utterly failed to put through anything meaningful...other than a pipeline carrying the dirtiest crude sludge in the world. His constant tweets are an embarrassment and basically just a pile of crap. Still....got to be better than the alternative of Hilary! | |||
"his healthcare bill went really well then That and his immigration controls.... So far he has taken credit for historical data and utterly failed to put through anything meaningful...other than a pipeline carrying the dirtiest crude sludge in the world. His constant tweets are an embarrassment and basically just a pile of crap. Still....got to be better than the alternative of Hilary!" How do you know its the dirtiest crude sludge? whats its specific gravity?, I am sure there will be plenty chemicals added to prevent sludge & heavy end drop out. I has made every attempt to put his policies through and the American people can see that, at least they know now who opposes him and in future voting, they can vote to remove the ones who vote against, everything takes time still waiting for Hilary to be jailed though | |||
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"his healthcare bill went really well then " love the way he then blamed the democrats..... i think he must have forgotten that he is a republican president with a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate... they had been voting for 7 years to get rid of it symbolically telling everyone who would listen they had a brilliant plan... and then they actually get to vote for real.... wha' happen!! | |||
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"his healthcare bill went really well then love the way he then blamed the democrats..... i think he must have forgotten that he is a republican president with a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate... they had been voting for 7 years to get rid of it symbolically telling everyone who would listen they had a brilliant plan... and then they actually get to vote for real.... wha' happen!!" That would be a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate many of whom never wanted Trump to be President. The republican party didn't want Trump to win, their preferred candidates were Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush. When Trump trashed them and easily beat them in the primaries many Republicans noses were put out of joint. Maybe this is their 'way' of getting some revenge on Trump now? The Democrats were always going to oppose this but it's no surprise to me that many Republicans also want to knife Trump in the back. When Trump said "Let's drain the swamp" there are many Republican snakes in the swamp besides the Democrats. As Trump says Obamacare will be a disaster and will blow up at some point anyway, then they will come begging to Trump to scrap it. Trump has 4 years to get rid of Obamacare so he has plenty of time to deliver on his promises to the people who voted for him. At least the voters can see Trump is trying to deliver on his election pledges, it's the snakes in the swamp who are fighting against it. | |||
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"his healthcare bill went really well then That and his immigration controls.... So far he has taken credit for historical data and utterly failed to put through anything meaningful...other than a pipeline carrying the dirtiest crude sludge in the world. His constant tweets are an embarrassment and basically just a pile of crap. Still....got to be better than the alternative of Hilary! How do you know its the dirtiest crude sludge? whats its specific gravity?, I am sure there will be plenty chemicals added to prevent sludge & heavy end drop out. I has made every attempt to put his policies through and the American people can see that, at least they know now who opposes him and in future voting, they can vote to remove the ones who vote against, everything takes time still waiting for Hilary to be jailed though" Jailed for what?! Don't you have to have been convicted of something to be jailed?! After all the time and effort put into investigating her, there has yet to be anything found to convict her for. And those that just wave there arms around about things like emails and Benghazi seem strangely blind to Trump and his administration doing far worse. Yet don't even seem to want him investigated. The wheels will fall off soon enough. He has so many dodgy dealings going on that someone soon enough is going to have the courage to actually do something about it legally. He is just trying to feather his nest as much as possible before he is ousted. -Matt | |||
"his healthcare bill went really well then love the way he then blamed the democrats..... i think he must have forgotten that he is a republican president with a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate... they had been voting for 7 years to get rid of it symbolically telling everyone who would listen they had a brilliant plan... and then they actually get to vote for real.... wha' happen!! That would be a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate many of whom never wanted Trump to be President. The republican party didn't want Trump to win, their preferred candidates were Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush. When Trump trashed them and easily beat them in the primaries many Republicans noses were put out of joint. Maybe this is their 'way' of getting some revenge on Trump now? The Democrats were always going to oppose this but it's no surprise to me that many Republicans also want to knife Trump in the back. When Trump said "Let's drain the swamp" there are many Republican snakes in the swamp besides the Democrats. As Trump says Obamacare will be a disaster and will blow up at some point anyway, then they will come begging to Trump to scrap it. Trump has 4 years to get rid of Obamacare so he has plenty of time to deliver on his promises to the people who voted for him. At least the voters can see Trump is trying to deliver on his election pledges, it's the snakes in the swamp who are fighting against it. " The reasons Republicans were going to vote against the AHCA was nothing to do with Trump. It was bad legislation to begin with and then the Freedom Caucus dug in and won changes that made it even worse. The CBO said millions and millions would lose coverage altogether. The legislation itself made the standard of coverage worse and it was going to become more expensive because younger and healthier people were going to drop it altogether. Objectively,no matter which side of politics your on, this was going to result in worse coverage than before and higher premiums. The only reason to support it was ideological, if you dont believe in entitlements then you vote to repeal. It wasnt an anti-trump vote it was a bill that would kill the republicans at the voting booth and thats all there was to it. It does damage Trumps persona of being a deal maker and a closer though. | |||
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"I always find it amazing how the patriotic Americans resent paying for there less fortunate fellow countrymen. I am happy enough for my taxes to pay for the NHS and hope never to use the facility........x" Alas this has been a common thread in thinking both sides of the pond recently. So many people believe that their situation is not going to change in life. They don't ever think that they would become ill, or that they would ever need social support, or even at the extreme that they would become refugees. Yes so much of the sentiment these days is 'piss on the fire jack, my sausages are done'. -Matt | |||
"I always find it amazing how the patriotic Americans resent paying for there less fortunate fellow countrymen. I am happy enough for my taxes to pay for the NHS and hope never to use the facility........x" You live in Scotland don't you. Isn't it the English paying for your free NHS prescriptions and free hospital car parking in Scotland. | |||
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"his healthcare bill went really well then love the way he then blamed the democrats..... i think he must have forgotten that he is a republican president with a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate... they had been voting for 7 years to get rid of it symbolically telling everyone who would listen they had a brilliant plan... and then they actually get to vote for real.... wha' happen!! That would be a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate many of whom never wanted Trump to be President. The republican party didn't want Trump to win, their preferred candidates were Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush. When Trump trashed them and easily beat them in the primaries many Republicans noses were put out of joint. Maybe this is their 'way' of getting some revenge on Trump now? The Democrats were always going to oppose this but it's no surprise to me that many Republicans also want to knife Trump in the back. When Trump said "Let's drain the swamp" there are many Republican snakes in the swamp besides the Democrats. As Trump says Obamacare will be a disaster and will blow up at some point anyway, then they will come begging to Trump to scrap it. Trump has 4 years to get rid of Obamacare so he has plenty of time to deliver on his promises to the people who voted for him. At least the voters can see Trump is trying to deliver on his election pledges, it's the snakes in the swamp who are fighting against it. The reasons Republicans were going to vote against the AHCA was nothing to do with Trump. It was bad legislation to begin with and then the Freedom Caucus dug in and won changes that made it even worse. The CBO said millions and millions would lose coverage altogether. The legislation itself made the standard of coverage worse and it was going to become more expensive because younger and healthier people were going to drop it altogether. Objectively,no matter which side of politics your on, this was going to result in worse coverage than before and higher premiums. The only reason to support it was ideological, if you dont believe in entitlements then you vote to repeal. It wasnt an anti-trump vote it was a bill that would kill the republicans at the voting booth and thats all there was to it. It does damage Trumps persona of being a deal maker and a closer though." Right, it was an objectively crap bill. However it was Trump that pledged that everyone would be covered. That there would be no cuts to Medicaid. That no one would be worse if financially. That no one would automatically lose coverage. Yet the bill that the republicans have had 7 years to work on didn't meet any of those pledges. Yet he push ahead on it. Then you have the temerity of Spicer saying Trump had spent every minute of every day working in it. Despite him having spent 1/3 of his time in office so far in Mar-a-lago playing golf and schmoozing foreign investors in his hotels and money laundering businesses. -Matt | |||
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"I always find it amazing how the patriotic Americans resent paying for there less fortunate fellow countrymen. I am happy enough for my taxes to pay for the NHS and hope never to use the facility........x Alas this has been a common thread in thinking both sides of the pond recently. So many people believe that their situation is not going to change in life. They don't ever think that they would become ill, or that they would ever need social support, or even at the extreme that they would become refugees. Yes so much of the sentiment these days is 'piss on the fire jack, my sausages are done'. -Matt" I think the vast majority of British people are happy to pay their taxes to support the NHS if it is to treat people who have paid into the system and contributed to it before they reap the benefits of it. I pay my taxes and happy for people to get treatment if they also live here and pay through tax into the NHS. I'm certainly opposed to Health tourists who come here to get treatment on the NHS when they haven't paid a penny into the system. Fuck em if they come from a foreign country and haven't paid into the NHS they they should be given a bill for the full cost of any treatment they receive. | |||
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"Yes you are right about the "Pull up the ladder Jack i am alright brigade"..But do you not find they are so mean spirited that they derive little enjoyment from life....Too busy doing someone down to make up for there own personality defects....The term saddos covers them....yes you know who you are on here xx" Yes it is saddening  but if you looked at just how much, for example, Trump was whipping up hatred at his rallies you can see how it happens. Similarly the 'us vs them' view pushed so much by the tabloids.
-Matt | |||
"I always find it amazing how the patriotic Americans resent paying for there less fortunate fellow countrymen. I am happy enough for my taxes to pay for the NHS and hope never to use the facility........x Alas this has been a common thread in thinking both sides of the pond recently. So many people believe that their situation is not going to change in life. They don't ever think that they would become ill, or that they would ever need social support, or even at the extreme that they would become refugees. Yes so much of the sentiment these days is 'piss on the fire jack, my sausages are done'. -Matt I think the vast majority of British people are happy to pay their taxes to support the NHS if it is to treat people who have paid into the system and contributed to it before they reap the benefits of it. I pay my taxes and happy for people to get treatment if they also live here and pay through tax into the NHS. I'm certainly opposed to Health tourists who come here to get treatment on the NHS when they haven't paid a penny into the system. Fuck em if they come from a foreign country and haven't paid into the NHS they they should be given a bill for the full cost of any treatment they receive. " Fair enough. But is the actual level of that health tourism anywhere near as high as it is perceived by people? And do you believe the response towards is is proportionate? Or is it like the disability benefit fraud which is a tiny fraction of a percent in reality yet resulted in disabled people being demonised and benefits cut across the board? | |||
"I always find it amazing how the patriotic Americans resent paying for there less fortunate fellow countrymen. I am happy enough for my taxes to pay for the NHS and hope never to use the facility........x You live in Scotland don't you. Isn't it the English paying for your free NHS prescriptions and free hospital car parking in Scotland. " Yep. Thanks for that | |||
"I always find it amazing how the patriotic Americans resent paying for there less fortunate fellow countrymen. I am happy enough for my taxes to pay for the NHS and hope never to use the facility........x You live in Scotland don't you. Isn't it the English paying for your free NHS prescriptions and free hospital car parking in Scotland. " sounds like a bit of the "green monster" even though you are not specifically correct, yes we get free NHS Prescriptions, free hospital car parking but on top of that we also get free eye tests, free personal care in old age, free residential care, free council tax & subsidised electricity in old age, and of course our Scottish students get free study whether at University in Scotland or England there are a few other things for the list but that's all I can think of just now. here is a little snip and paste you might enjoy reading; While the English are tightening their belts in the wake of the credit crunch, Scotland will spend millions of pounds to abolish prescription charges. It is the latest example of ‘medical apartheid’, where the devolved nations enjoy better health services despite paying far less tax per head. Scots also get free personal care in old age, while their students pay no tuition fees – unlike those born in England. The latest move means English patients will be forced to pay prescription charges – currently £7.20 per item – while effectively subsidising free drugs for those elsewhere in the UK. Prescriptions are already free in Wales and Northern Ireland. Labour had planned to offer all patients with long-term conditions free prescriptions, but the Coalition scrapped this on taking office, citing a lack of money. As well as getting free prescriptions, Scottish people receive free eye tests (compared to an English charge of around £19) and free ‘personal care’ in old age, while English pensioners have to pay full residential care costs if they own assets of more than £23,000. To top it all, Scottish students pay no tuition fees, even if they attend a university in England. Students born south of the border face paying up to £9,000 a year. | |||
"I always find it amazing how the patriotic Americans resent paying for there less fortunate fellow countrymen. I am happy enough for my taxes to pay for the NHS and hope never to use the facility........x You live in Scotland don't you. Isn't it the English paying for your free NHS prescriptions and free hospital car parking in Scotland. sounds like a bit of the "green monster" even though you are not specifically correct, yes we get free NHS Prescriptions, free hospital car parking but on top of that we also get free eye tests, free personal care in old age, free residential care, free council tax & subsidised electricity in old age, and of course our Scottish students get free study whether at University in Scotland or England there are a few other things for the list but that's all I can think of just now. here is a little snip and paste you might enjoy reading; While the English are tightening their belts in the wake of the credit crunch, Scotland will spend millions of pounds to abolish prescription charges. It is the latest example of ‘medical apartheid’, where the devolved nations enjoy better health services despite paying far less tax per head. Scots also get free personal care in old age, while their students pay no tuition fees – unlike those born in England. The latest move means English patients will be forced to pay prescription charges – currently £7.20 per item – while effectively subsidising free drugs for those elsewhere in the UK. Prescriptions are already free in Wales and Northern Ireland. Labour had planned to offer all patients with long-term conditions free prescriptions, but the Coalition scrapped this on taking office, citing a lack of money. As well as getting free prescriptions, Scottish people receive free eye tests (compared to an English charge of around £19) and free ‘personal care’ in old age, while English pensioners have to pay full residential care costs if they own assets of more than £23,000. To top it all, Scottish students pay no tuition fees, even if they attend a university in England. Students born south of the border face paying up to £9,000 a year. " Thank Fuck for the English eh? | |||
"I always find it amazing how the patriotic Americans resent paying for there less fortunate fellow countrymen. I am happy enough for my taxes to pay for the NHS and hope never to use the facility........x You live in Scotland don't you. Isn't it the English paying for your free NHS prescriptions and free hospital car parking in Scotland. sounds like a bit of the "green monster" even though you are not specifically correct, yes we get free NHS Prescriptions, free hospital car parking but on top of that we also get free eye tests, free personal care in old age, free residential care, free council tax & subsidised electricity in old age, and of course our Scottish students get free study whether at University in Scotland or England there are a few other things for the list but that's all I can think of just now. here is a little snip and paste you might enjoy reading; While the English are tightening their belts in the wake of the credit crunch, Scotland will spend millions of pounds to abolish prescription charges. It is the latest example of ‘medical apartheid’, where the devolved nations enjoy better health services despite paying far less tax per head. Scots also get free personal care in old age, while their students pay no tuition fees – unlike those born in England. The latest move means English patients will be forced to pay prescription charges – currently £7.20 per item – while effectively subsidising free drugs for those elsewhere in the UK. Prescriptions are already free in Wales and Northern Ireland. Labour had planned to offer all patients with long-term conditions free prescriptions, but the Coalition scrapped this on taking office, citing a lack of money. As well as getting free prescriptions, Scottish people receive free eye tests (compared to an English charge of around £19) and free ‘personal care’ in old age, while English pensioners have to pay full residential care costs if they own assets of more than £23,000. To top it all, Scottish students pay no tuition fees, even if they attend a university in England. Students born south of the border face paying up to £9,000 a year. Thank Fuck for the English eh?" Yep. Thanks again mugs | |||
"I always find it amazing how the patriotic Americans resent paying for there less fortunate fellow countrymen. I am happy enough for my taxes to pay for the NHS and hope never to use the facility........x You live in Scotland don't you. Isn't it the English paying for your free NHS prescriptions and free hospital car parking in Scotland. sounds like a bit of the "green monster" even though you are not specifically correct, yes we get free NHS Prescriptions, free hospital car parking but on top of that we also get free eye tests, free personal care in old age, free residential care, free council tax & subsidised electricity in old age, and of course our Scottish students get free study whether at University in Scotland or England there are a few other things for the list but that's all I can think of just now. here is a little snip and paste you might enjoy reading; While the English are tightening their belts in the wake of the credit crunch, Scotland will spend millions of pounds to abolish prescription charges. It is the latest example of ‘medical apartheid’, where the devolved nations enjoy better health services despite paying far less tax per head. Scots also get free personal care in old age, while their students pay no tuition fees – unlike those born in England. The latest move means English patients will be forced to pay prescription charges – currently £7.20 per item – while effectively subsidising free drugs for those elsewhere in the UK. Prescriptions are already free in Wales and Northern Ireland. Labour had planned to offer all patients with long-term conditions free prescriptions, but the Coalition scrapped this on taking office, citing a lack of money. As well as getting free prescriptions, Scottish people receive free eye tests (compared to an English charge of around £19) and free ‘personal care’ in old age, while English pensioners have to pay full residential care costs if they own assets of more than £23,000. To top it all, Scottish students pay no tuition fees, even if they attend a university in England. Students born south of the border face paying up to £9,000 a year. Thank Fuck for the English eh?" why the attitude and language!!!!! thought we were all in this together as a "United Kingdom"  | |||
"his healthcare bill went really well then love the way he then blamed the democrats..... i think he must have forgotten that he is a republican president with a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate... they had been voting for 7 years to get rid of it symbolically telling everyone who would listen they had a brilliant plan... and then they actually get to vote for real.... wha' happen!! That would be a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate many of whom never wanted Trump to be President. The republican party didn't want Trump to win, their preferred candidates were Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush. When Trump trashed them and easily beat them in the primaries many Republicans noses were put out of joint. Maybe this is their 'way' of getting some revenge on Trump now? The Democrats were always going to oppose this but it's no surprise to me that many Republicans also want to knife Trump in the back. When Trump said "Let's drain the swamp" there are many Republican snakes in the swamp besides the Democrats. As Trump says Obamacare will be a disaster and will blow up at some point anyway, then they will come begging to Trump to scrap it. Trump has 4 years to get rid of Obamacare so he has plenty of time to deliver on his promises to the people who voted for him. At least the voters can see Trump is trying to deliver on his election pledges, it's the snakes in the swamp who are fighting against it. The reasons Republicans were going to vote against the AHCA was nothing to do with Trump. It was bad legislation to begin with and then the Freedom Caucus dug in and won changes that made it even worse. The CBO said millions and millions would lose coverage altogether. The legislation itself made the standard of coverage worse and it was going to become more expensive because younger and healthier people were going to drop it altogether. Objectively,no matter which side of politics your on, this was going to result in worse coverage than before and higher premiums. The only reason to support it was ideological, if you dont believe in entitlements then you vote to repeal. It wasnt an anti-trump vote it was a bill that would kill the republicans at the voting booth and thats all there was to it. It does damage Trumps persona of being a deal maker and a closer though." Not really ! As business man Trump can easily get over these set backs! And because of his business , and not political approach , I will bet you he has learned big time with this ! And that is the difference between a typical politician an him ! I think Trump will learn and evolve/grow from this!
Here are the lessons :
1- The swamp is deeper then he thought !
2- He now knows exactly who is who in the complex factions of the GOP .
3- He has a glimpse of how the Washington two step works . And this applies to both Democrats and republicans.
4- Timing ! Its difference in political and business terms.
5- Difference between political and business deal making !
While a politician deals and plays with public money , and thus has no personal loss either way , a business man only gains if he gets it done !
6- Personal good will, effort and commitment alone wont get the job done , as he is used to in running his business.
You can be sure The Donald will learn from this , and while all his fanatic opponents are gloating , he is already busy analysing how to go forward !
So are there any benefits from this set back besides the lessons learned?
Yes !
Obama care already in trouble will eventually implode, creating a situation that will have both parties needing to do something ! What ?
Either a deep complete reform of Obama care , that in practice will be something new !
Or a new bill that results from the mistakes of both Obama care , and the failed one proposed to replace it !
In any case this will require both parties to grow up and work together !
Lets not forget that Trump as a pragmatic guy has no problem, in retaining any parts of Obamacare that actually work, this in opposition to the positions of some Republican factions that just want it repealed outright !
In that sense he is not partisan , so actually the guy to compromise , and get something that is simple , and works !
Besides..... The Donald has proven his ability to talk to big business and turn them around .
And I think we all agree that Drug, insurance companies and all other players in the health and medical care area need a reality check and a shake up ,and all previous attempts have failed ! | |||
| |||
"his healthcare bill went really well then love the way he then blamed the democrats..... i think he must have forgotten that he is a republican president with a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate... they had been voting for 7 years to get rid of it symbolically telling everyone who would listen they had a brilliant plan... and then they actually get to vote for real.... wha' happen!! That would be a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate many of whom never wanted Trump to be President. The republican party didn't want Trump to win, their preferred candidates were Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush. When Trump trashed them and easily beat them in the primaries many Republicans noses were put out of joint. Maybe this is their 'way' of getting some revenge on Trump now? The Democrats were always going to oppose this but it's no surprise to me that many Republicans also want to knife Trump in the back. When Trump said "Let's drain the swamp" there are many Republican snakes in the swamp besides the Democrats. As Trump says Obamacare will be a disaster and will blow up at some point anyway, then they will come begging to Trump to scrap it. Trump has 4 years to get rid of Obamacare so he has plenty of time to deliver on his promises to the people who voted for him. At least the voters can see Trump is trying to deliver on his election pledges, it's the snakes in the swamp who are fighting against it. The reasons Republicans were going to vote against the AHCA was nothing to do with Trump. It was bad legislation to begin with and then the Freedom Caucus dug in and won changes that made it even worse. The CBO said millions and millions would lose coverage altogether. The legislation itself made the standard of coverage worse and it was going to become more expensive because younger and healthier people were going to drop it altogether. Objectively,no matter which side of politics your on, this was going to result in worse coverage than before and higher premiums. The only reason to support it was ideological, if you dont believe in entitlements then you vote to repeal. It wasnt an anti-trump vote it was a bill that would kill the republicans at the voting booth and thats all there was to it. It does damage Trumps persona of being a deal maker and a closer though. Not really ! As business man Trump can easily get over these set backs! And because of his business , and not political approach , I will bet you he has learned big time with this ! And that is the difference between a typical politician an him ! I think Trump will learn and evolve/grow from this!
Here are the lessons :
1- The swamp is deeper then he thought !
2- He now knows exactly who is who in the complex factions of the GOP .
3- He has a glimpse of how the Washington two step works . And this applies to both Democrats and republicans.
4- Timing ! Its difference in political and business terms.
5- Difference between political and business deal making !
While a politician deals and plays with public money , and thus has no personal loss either way , a business man only gains if he gets it done !
6- Personal good will, effort and commitment alone wont get the job done , as he is used to in running his business.
You can be sure The Donald will learn from this , and while all his fanatic opponents are gloating , he is already busy analysing how to go forward !
So are there any benefits from this set back besides the lessons learned?
Yes !
Obama care already in trouble will eventually implode, creating a situation that will have both parties needing to do something ! What ?
Either a deep complete reform of Obama care , that in practice will be something new !
Or a new bill that results from the mistakes of both Obama care , and the failed one proposed to replace it !
In any case this will require both parties to grow up and work together !
Lets not forget that Trump as a pragmatic guy has no problem, in retaining any parts of Obamacare that actually work, this in opposition to the positions of some Republican factions that just want it repealed outright !
In that sense he is not partisan , so actually the guy to compromise , and get something that is simple , and works !
Besides..... The Donald has proven his ability to talk to big business and turn them around .
And I think we all agree that Drug, insurance companies and all other players in the health and medical care area need a reality check and a shake up ,and all previous attempts have failed ! "Are you referring to the same Donald Trump? This is the guy who's main business tactic is to fuck everyone over, line his pockets, bankrupt what's left and walk away. How is that approach going to go with the US? And how exactly do you define this 'swamp'? You are on about people, right? So what in your mind sets apart the supposed corrupt millionaires in there apart from the corrupt millionaires Trump is putting in? -Matt | |||
"his healthcare bill went really well then love the way he then blamed the democrats..... i think he must have forgotten that he is a republican president with a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate... they had been voting for 7 years to get rid of it symbolically telling everyone who would listen they had a brilliant plan... and then they actually get to vote for real.... wha' happen!! That would be a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate many of whom never wanted Trump to be President. The republican party didn't want Trump to win, their preferred candidates were Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush. When Trump trashed them and easily beat them in the primaries many Republicans noses were put out of joint. Maybe this is their 'way' of getting some revenge on Trump now? The Democrats were always going to oppose this but it's no surprise to me that many Republicans also want to knife Trump in the back. When Trump said "Let's drain the swamp" there are many Republican snakes in the swamp besides the Democrats. As Trump says Obamacare will be a disaster and will blow up at some point anyway, then they will come begging to Trump to scrap it. Trump has 4 years to get rid of Obamacare so he has plenty of time to deliver on his promises to the people who voted for him. At least the voters can see Trump is trying to deliver on his election pledges, it's the snakes in the swamp who are fighting against it. The reasons Republicans were going to vote against the AHCA was nothing to do with Trump. It was bad legislation to begin with and then the Freedom Caucus dug in and won changes that made it even worse. The CBO said millions and millions would lose coverage altogether. The legislation itself made the standard of coverage worse and it was going to become more expensive because younger and healthier people were going to drop it altogether. Objectively,no matter which side of politics your on, this was going to result in worse coverage than before and higher premiums. The only reason to support it was ideological, if you dont believe in entitlements then you vote to repeal. It wasnt an anti-trump vote it was a bill that would kill the republicans at the voting booth and thats all there was to it. It does damage Trumps persona of being a deal maker and a closer though. Not really ! As business man Trump can easily get over these set backs! And because of his business , and not political approach , I will bet you he has learned big time with this ! And that is the difference between a typical politician an him ! I think Trump will learn and evolve/grow from this!
Here are the lessons :
1- The swamp is deeper then he thought !
2- He now knows exactly who is who in the complex factions of the GOP .
3- He has a glimpse of how the Washington two step works . And this applies to both Democrats and republicans.
4- Timing ! Its difference in political and business terms.
5- Difference between political and business deal making !
While a politician deals and plays with public money , and thus has no personal loss either way , a business man only gains if he gets it done !
6- Personal good will, effort and commitment alone wont get the job done , as he is used to in running his business.
You can be sure The Donald will learn from this , and while all his fanatic opponents are gloating , he is already busy analysing how to go forward !
So are there any benefits from this set back besides the lessons learned?
Yes !
Obama care already in trouble will eventually implode, creating a situation that will have both parties needing to do something ! What ?
Either a deep complete reform of Obama care , that in practice will be something new !
Or a new bill that results from the mistakes of both Obama care , and the failed one proposed to replace it !
In any case this will require both parties to grow up and work together !
Lets not forget that Trump as a pragmatic guy has no problem, in retaining any parts of Obamacare that actually work, this in opposition to the positions of some Republican factions that just want it repealed outright !
In that sense he is not partisan , so actually the guy to compromise , and get something that is simple , and works !
Besides..... The Donald has proven his ability to talk to big business and turn them around .
And I think we all agree that Drug, insurance companies and all other players in the health and medical care area need a reality check and a shake up ,and all previous attempts have failed ! "Good boy: "The Donald" will tap your head when he's about to cum. | |||
"his healthcare bill went really well then love the way he then blamed the democrats..... i think he must have forgotten that he is a republican president with a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate... they had been voting for 7 years to get rid of it symbolically telling everyone who would listen they had a brilliant plan... and then they actually get to vote for real.... wha' happen!! That would be a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate many of whom never wanted Trump to be President. The republican party didn't want Trump to win, their preferred candidates were Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush. When Trump trashed them and easily beat them in the primaries many Republicans noses were put out of joint. Maybe this is their 'way' of getting some revenge on Trump now? The Democrats were always going to oppose this but it's no surprise to me that many Republicans also want to knife Trump in the back. When Trump said "Let's drain the swamp" there are many Republican snakes in the swamp besides the Democrats. As Trump says Obamacare will be a disaster and will blow up at some point anyway, then they will come begging to Trump to scrap it. Trump has 4 years to get rid of Obamacare so he has plenty of time to deliver on his promises to the people who voted for him. At least the voters can see Trump is trying to deliver on his election pledges, it's the snakes in the swamp who are fighting against it. The reasons Republicans were going to vote against the AHCA was nothing to do with Trump. It was bad legislation to begin with and then the Freedom Caucus dug in and won changes that made it even worse. The CBO said millions and millions would lose coverage altogether. The legislation itself made the standard of coverage worse and it was going to become more expensive because younger and healthier people were going to drop it altogether. Objectively,no matter which side of politics your on, this was going to result in worse coverage than before and higher premiums. The only reason to support it was ideological, if you dont believe in entitlements then you vote to repeal. It wasnt an anti-trump vote it was a bill that would kill the republicans at the voting booth and thats all there was to it. It does damage Trumps persona of being a deal maker and a closer though. Not really ! As business man Trump can easily get over these set backs! And because of his business , and not political approach , I will bet you he has learned big time with this ! And that is the difference between a typical politician an him ! I think Trump will learn and evolve/grow from this!
Here are the lessons :
1- The swamp is deeper then he thought !
2- He now knows exactly who is who in the complex factions of the GOP .
3- He has a glimpse of how the Washington two step works . And this applies to both Democrats and republicans.
4- Timing ! Its difference in political and business terms.
5- Difference between political and business deal making !
While a politician deals and plays with public money , and thus has no personal loss either way , a business man only gains if he gets it done !
6- Personal good will, effort and commitment alone wont get the job done , as he is used to in running his business.
You can be sure The Donald will learn from this , and while all his fanatic opponents are gloating , he is already busy analysing how to go forward !
So are there any benefits from this set back besides the lessons learned?
Yes !
Obama care already in trouble will eventually implode, creating a situation that will have both parties needing to do something ! What ?
Either a deep complete reform of Obama care , that in practice will be something new !
Or a new bill that results from the mistakes of both Obama care , and the failed one proposed to replace it !
In any case this will require both parties to grow up and work together !
Lets not forget that Trump as a pragmatic guy has no problem, in retaining any parts of Obamacare that actually work, this in opposition to the positions of some Republican factions that just want it repealed outright !
In that sense he is not partisan , so actually the guy to compromise , and get something that is simple , and works !
Besides..... The Donald has proven his ability to talk to big business and turn them around .
And I think we all agree that Drug, insurance companies and all other players in the health and medical care area need a reality check and a shake up ,and all previous attempts have failed !
Are you referring to the same Donald Trump? This is the guy who's main business tactic is to fuck everyone over, line his pockets, bankrupt what's left and walk away. How is that approach going to go with the US?
And how exactly do you define this 'swamp'? You are on about people, right? So what in your mind sets apart the supposed corrupt millionaires in there apart from the corrupt millionaires Trump is putting in?
-Matt"Lol... that is an easy one ! Remember the saying : " it takes one to know one" Or ... The best thief is the ex cop, and vice versa ? In order to change something , you have to know how it works ! Remember in the past , Trump was asked about about his financial support for politicians that he, now was against and how that made sense ! He responded by saying that as business man, he was only buying influence to protect his interests !
So it makes sense that someone who used to buy politicians is better prepared to drain a swamp he was in ! | |||
"his healthcare bill went really well then love the way he then blamed the democrats..... i think he must have forgotten that he is a republican president with a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate... they had been voting for 7 years to get rid of it symbolically telling everyone who would listen they had a brilliant plan... and then they actually get to vote for real.... wha' happen!! That would be a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate many of whom never wanted Trump to be President. The republican party didn't want Trump to win, their preferred candidates were Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush. When Trump trashed them and easily beat them in the primaries many Republicans noses were put out of joint. Maybe this is their 'way' of getting some revenge on Trump now? The Democrats were always going to oppose this but it's no surprise to me that many Republicans also want to knife Trump in the back. When Trump said "Let's drain the swamp" there are many Republican snakes in the swamp besides the Democrats. As Trump says Obamacare will be a disaster and will blow up at some point anyway, then they will come begging to Trump to scrap it. Trump has 4 years to get rid of Obamacare so he has plenty of time to deliver on his promises to the people who voted for him. At least the voters can see Trump is trying to deliver on his election pledges, it's the snakes in the swamp who are fighting against it. The reasons Republicans were going to vote against the AHCA was nothing to do with Trump. It was bad legislation to begin with and then the Freedom Caucus dug in and won changes that made it even worse. The CBO said millions and millions would lose coverage altogether. The legislation itself made the standard of coverage worse and it was going to become more expensive because younger and healthier people were going to drop it altogether. Objectively,no matter which side of politics your on, this was going to result in worse coverage than before and higher premiums. The only reason to support it was ideological, if you dont believe in entitlements then you vote to repeal. It wasnt an anti-trump vote it was a bill that would kill the republicans at the voting booth and thats all there was to it. It does damage Trumps persona of being a deal maker and a closer though. Not really ! As business man Trump can easily get over these set backs! And because of his business , and not political approach , I will bet you he has learned big time with this ! And that is the difference between a typical politician an him ! I think Trump will learn and evolve/grow from this!
Here are the lessons :
1- The swamp is deeper then he thought !
2- He now knows exactly who is who in the complex factions of the GOP .
3- He has a glimpse of how the Washington two step works . And this applies to both Democrats and republicans.
4- Timing ! Its difference in political and business terms.
5- Difference between political and business deal making !
While a politician deals and plays with public money , and thus has no personal loss either way , a business man only gains if he gets it done !
6- Personal good will, effort and commitment alone wont get the job done , as he is used to in running his business.
You can be sure The Donald will learn from this , and while all his fanatic opponents are gloating , he is already busy analysing how to go forward !
So are there any benefits from this set back besides the lessons learned?
Yes !
Obama care already in trouble will eventually implode, creating a situation that will have both parties needing to do something ! What ?
Either a deep complete reform of Obama care , that in practice will be something new !
Or a new bill that results from the mistakes of both Obama care , and the failed one proposed to replace it !
In any case this will require both parties to grow up and work together !
Lets not forget that Trump as a pragmatic guy has no problem, in retaining any parts of Obamacare that actually work, this in opposition to the positions of some Republican factions that just want it repealed outright !
In that sense he is not partisan , so actually the guy to compromise , and get something that is simple , and works !
Besides..... The Donald has proven his ability to talk to big business and turn them around .
And I think we all agree that Drug, insurance companies and all other players in the health and medical care area need a reality check and a shake up ,and all previous attempts have failed !
Good boy: "The Donald" will tap your head when he's about to cum."LOL.... A typical reply that shows what happens when an idiot has no valid response!
OR...it could be a Freudian lapse , and you are just expressing a fantasy of yours !
ps. Why have you blocked me ? it seems you are afraid of me or something ! | |||
"his healthcare bill went really well then love the way he then blamed the democrats..... i think he must have forgotten that he is a republican president with a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate... they had been voting for 7 years to get rid of it symbolically telling everyone who would listen they had a brilliant plan... and then they actually get to vote for real.... wha' happen!! That would be a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate many of whom never wanted Trump to be President. The republican party didn't want Trump to win, their preferred candidates were Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush. When Trump trashed them and easily beat them in the primaries many Republicans noses were put out of joint. Maybe this is their 'way' of getting some revenge on Trump now? The Democrats were always going to oppose this but it's no surprise to me that many Republicans also want to knife Trump in the back. When Trump said "Let's drain the swamp" there are many Republican snakes in the swamp besides the Democrats. As Trump says Obamacare will be a disaster and will blow up at some point anyway, then they will come begging to Trump to scrap it. Trump has 4 years to get rid of Obamacare so he has plenty of time to deliver on his promises to the people who voted for him. At least the voters can see Trump is trying to deliver on his election pledges, it's the snakes in the swamp who are fighting against it. The reasons Republicans were going to vote against the AHCA was nothing to do with Trump. It was bad legislation to begin with and then the Freedom Caucus dug in and won changes that made it even worse. The CBO said millions and millions would lose coverage altogether. The legislation itself made the standard of coverage worse and it was going to become more expensive because younger and healthier people were going to drop it altogether. Objectively,no matter which side of politics your on, this was going to result in worse coverage than before and higher premiums. The only reason to support it was ideological, if you dont believe in entitlements then you vote to repeal. It wasnt an anti-trump vote it was a bill that would kill the republicans at the voting booth and thats all there was to it. It does damage Trumps persona of being a deal maker and a closer though. Not really ! As business man Trump can easily get over these set backs! And because of his business , and not political approach , I will bet you he has learned big time with this ! And that is the difference between a typical politician an him ! I think Trump will learn and evolve/grow from this!
Here are the lessons :
1- The swamp is deeper then he thought !
2- He now knows exactly who is who in the complex factions of the GOP .
3- He has a glimpse of how the Washington two step works . And this applies to both Democrats and republicans.
4- Timing ! Its difference in political and business terms.
5- Difference between political and business deal making !
While a politician deals and plays with public money , and thus has no personal loss either way , a business man only gains if he gets it done !
6- Personal good will, effort and commitment alone wont get the job done , as he is used to in running his business.
You can be sure The Donald will learn from this , and while all his fanatic opponents are gloating , he is already busy analysing how to go forward !
So are there any benefits from this set back besides the lessons learned?
Yes !
Obama care already in trouble will eventually implode, creating a situation that will have both parties needing to do something ! What ?
Either a deep complete reform of Obama care , that in practice will be something new !
Or a new bill that results from the mistakes of both Obama care , and the failed one proposed to replace it !
In any case this will require both parties to grow up and work together !
Lets not forget that Trump as a pragmatic guy has no problem, in retaining any parts of Obamacare that actually work, this in opposition to the positions of some Republican factions that just want it repealed outright !
In that sense he is not partisan , so actually the guy to compromise , and get something that is simple , and works !
Besides..... The Donald has proven his ability to talk to big business and turn them around .
And I think we all agree that Drug, insurance companies and all other players in the health and medical care area need a reality check and a shake up ,and all previous attempts have failed !
Good boy: "The Donald" will tap your head when he's about to cum.
LOL....
A typical reply that shows what happens when an idiot has no valid response!
OR...it could be a Freudian lapse , and you are just expressing a fantasy of yours !
ps. Why have you blocked me ? it seems you are afraid of me or something ! "Dont like you that's why I blocked you - Not afraid of a midget. Btw: Enjoy swallowing rancid cum direct from "The Donald". | |||
"his healthcare bill went really well then love the way he then blamed the democrats..... i think he must have forgotten that he is a republican president with a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate... they had been voting for 7 years to get rid of it symbolically telling everyone who would listen they had a brilliant plan... and then they actually get to vote for real.... wha' happen!! That would be a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate many of whom never wanted Trump to be President. The republican party didn't want Trump to win, their preferred candidates were Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush. When Trump trashed them and easily beat them in the primaries many Republicans noses were put out of joint. Maybe this is their 'way' of getting some revenge on Trump now? The Democrats were always going to oppose this but it's no surprise to me that many Republicans also want to knife Trump in the back. When Trump said "Let's drain the swamp" there are many Republican snakes in the swamp besides the Democrats. As Trump says Obamacare will be a disaster and will blow up at some point anyway, then they will come begging to Trump to scrap it. Trump has 4 years to get rid of Obamacare so he has plenty of time to deliver on his promises to the people who voted for him. At least the voters can see Trump is trying to deliver on his election pledges, it's the snakes in the swamp who are fighting against it. The reasons Republicans were going to vote against the AHCA was nothing to do with Trump. It was bad legislation to begin with and then the Freedom Caucus dug in and won changes that made it even worse. The CBO said millions and millions would lose coverage altogether. The legislation itself made the standard of coverage worse and it was going to become more expensive because younger and healthier people were going to drop it altogether. Objectively,no matter which side of politics your on, this was going to result in worse coverage than before and higher premiums. The only reason to support it was ideological, if you dont believe in entitlements then you vote to repeal. It wasnt an anti-trump vote it was a bill that would kill the republicans at the voting booth and thats all there was to it. It does damage Trumps persona of being a deal maker and a closer though. Not really ! As business man Trump can easily get over these set backs! And because of his business , and not political approach , I will bet you he has learned big time with this ! And that is the difference between a typical politician an him ! I think Trump will learn and evolve/grow from this!
Here are the lessons :
1- The swamp is deeper then he thought !
2- He now knows exactly who is who in the complex factions of the GOP .
3- He has a glimpse of how the Washington two step works . And this applies to both Democrats and republicans.
4- Timing ! Its difference in political and business terms.
5- Difference between political and business deal making !
While a politician deals and plays with public money , and thus has no personal loss either way , a business man only gains if he gets it done !
6- Personal good will, effort and commitment alone wont get the job done , as he is used to in running his business.
You can be sure The Donald will learn from this , and while all his fanatic opponents are gloating , he is already busy analysing how to go forward !
So are there any benefits from this set back besides the lessons learned?
Yes !
Obama care already in trouble will eventually implode, creating a situation that will have both parties needing to do something ! What ?
Either a deep complete reform of Obama care , that in practice will be something new !
Or a new bill that results from the mistakes of both Obama care , and the failed one proposed to replace it !
In any case this will require both parties to grow up and work together !
Lets not forget that Trump as a pragmatic guy has no problem, in retaining any parts of Obamacare that actually work, this in opposition to the positions of some Republican factions that just want it repealed outright !
In that sense he is not partisan , so actually the guy to compromise , and get something that is simple , and works !
Besides..... The Donald has proven his ability to talk to big business and turn them around .
And I think we all agree that Drug, insurance companies and all other players in the health and medical care area need a reality check and a shake up ,and all previous attempts have failed !
Good boy: "The Donald" will tap your head when he's about to cum.
LOL....
A typical reply that shows what happens when an idiot has no valid response!
OR...it could be a Freudian lapse , and you are just expressing a fantasy of yours !
ps. Why have you blocked me ? it seems you are afraid of me or something !
Dont like you that's why I blocked you - Not afraid of a midget. Btw: Enjoy swallowing rancid cum direct from "The Donald"."Lol... That is fine, I am str8, I dont do men !
But it seems I was right !
Since You don't have the ability or intellect to present a valid response , you resort to being rude and offensive !
But thanks for the warning about about the Donald´s cum being rancid !
Knowledge you obviously acquired from personal experience ! | |||
| |||
" ps. Why have you blocked me ? it seems you are afraid of me or something !
Dont like you that's why I blocked you - Not afraid of a midget. Btw: Enjoy swallowing rancid cum direct from "The Donald"."seems its not just tony you have blocked, I suspect you do have something to hide, or indeed you must be afraid its nice to see who you are replying to. | |||
"his healthcare bill went really well then love the way he then blamed the democrats..... i think he must have forgotten that he is a republican president with a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate... they had been voting for 7 years to get rid of it symbolically telling everyone who would listen they had a brilliant plan... and then they actually get to vote for real.... wha' happen!! That would be a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate many of whom never wanted Trump to be President. The republican party didn't want Trump to win, their preferred candidates were Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush. When Trump trashed them and easily beat them in the primaries many Republicans noses were put out of joint. Maybe this is their 'way' of getting some revenge on Trump now? The Democrats were always going to oppose this but it's no surprise to me that many Republicans also want to knife Trump in the back. When Trump said "Let's drain the swamp" there are many Republican snakes in the swamp besides the Democrats. As Trump says Obamacare will be a disaster and will blow up at some point anyway, then they will come begging to Trump to scrap it. Trump has 4 years to get rid of Obamacare so he has plenty of time to deliver on his promises to the people who voted for him. At least the voters can see Trump is trying to deliver on his election pledges, it's the snakes in the swamp who are fighting against it. The reasons Republicans were going to vote against the AHCA was nothing to do with Trump. It was bad legislation to begin with and then the Freedom Caucus dug in and won changes that made it even worse. The CBO said millions and millions would lose coverage altogether. The legislation itself made the standard of coverage worse and it was going to become more expensive because younger and healthier people were going to drop it altogether. Objectively,no matter which side of politics your on, this was going to result in worse coverage than before and higher premiums. The only reason to support it was ideological, if you dont believe in entitlements then you vote to repeal. It wasnt an anti-trump vote it was a bill that would kill the republicans at the voting booth and thats all there was to it. It does damage Trumps persona of being a deal maker and a closer though. Not really ! As business man Trump can easily get over these set backs! And because of his business , and not political approach , I will bet you he has learned big time with this ! And that is the difference between a typical politician an him ! I think Trump will learn and evolve/grow from this!
Here are the lessons :
1- The swamp is deeper then he thought !
2- He now knows exactly who is who in the complex factions of the GOP .
3- He has a glimpse of how the Washington two step works . And this applies to both Democrats and republicans.
4- Timing ! Its difference in political and business terms.
5- Difference between political and business deal making !
While a politician deals and plays with public money , and thus has no personal loss either way , a business man only gains if he gets it done !
6- Personal good will, effort and commitment alone wont get the job done , as he is used to in running his business.
You can be sure The Donald will learn from this , and while all his fanatic opponents are gloating , he is already busy analysing how to go forward !
So are there any benefits from this set back besides the lessons learned?
Yes !
Obama care already in trouble will eventually implode, creating a situation that will have both parties needing to do something ! What ?
Either a deep complete reform of Obama care , that in practice will be something new !
Or a new bill that results from the mistakes of both Obama care , and the failed one proposed to replace it !
In any case this will require both parties to grow up and work together !
Lets not forget that Trump as a pragmatic guy has no problem, in retaining any parts of Obamacare that actually work, this in opposition to the positions of some Republican factions that just want it repealed outright !
In that sense he is not partisan , so actually the guy to compromise , and get something that is simple , and works !
Besides..... The Donald has proven his ability to talk to big business and turn them around .
And I think we all agree that Drug, insurance companies and all other players in the health and medical care area need a reality check and a shake up ,and all previous attempts have failed !
Are you referring to the same Donald Trump? This is the guy who's main business tactic is to fuck everyone over, line his pockets, bankrupt what's left and walk away. How is that approach going to go with the US?
And how exactly do you define this 'swamp'? You are on about people, right? So what in your mind sets apart the supposed corrupt millionaires in there apart from the corrupt millionaires Trump is putting in?
-Matt
Lol... that is an easy one ! Remember the saying : " it takes one to know one"
Or ... The best thief is the ex cop, and vice versa ?
In order to change something , you have to know how it works !
Remember in the past , Trump was asked about about his financial support for politicians that he, now was against and how that made sense !
He responded by saying that as business man, he was only buying influence to protect his interests !
So it makes sense that someone who used to buy politicians is better prepared to drain a swamp he was in ! "One of my particular favourites "If you want to kill a snake, then its best to send a snake into the snakepit". | |||
| |||
"his healthcare bill went really well then love the way he then blamed the democrats..... i think he must have forgotten that he is a republican president with a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate... they had been voting for 7 years to get rid of it symbolically telling everyone who would listen they had a brilliant plan... and then they actually get to vote for real.... wha' happen!! That would be a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate many of whom never wanted Trump to be President. The republican party didn't want Trump to win, their preferred candidates were Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush. When Trump trashed them and easily beat them in the primaries many Republicans noses were put out of joint. Maybe this is their 'way' of getting some revenge on Trump now? The Democrats were always going to oppose this but it's no surprise to me that many Republicans also want to knife Trump in the back. When Trump said "Let's drain the swamp" there are many Republican snakes in the swamp besides the Democrats. As Trump says Obamacare will be a disaster and will blow up at some point anyway, then they will come begging to Trump to scrap it. Trump has 4 years to get rid of Obamacare so he has plenty of time to deliver on his promises to the people who voted for him. At least the voters can see Trump is trying to deliver on his election pledges, it's the snakes in the swamp who are fighting against it. The reasons Republicans were going to vote against the AHCA was nothing to do with Trump. It was bad legislation to begin with and then the Freedom Caucus dug in and won changes that made it even worse. The CBO said millions and millions would lose coverage altogether. The legislation itself made the standard of coverage worse and it was going to become more expensive because younger and healthier people were going to drop it altogether. Objectively,no matter which side of politics your on, this was going to result in worse coverage than before and higher premiums. The only reason to support it was ideological, if you dont believe in entitlements then you vote to repeal. It wasnt an anti-trump vote it was a bill that would kill the republicans at the voting booth and thats all there was to it. It does damage Trumps persona of being a deal maker and a closer though. Not really ! As business man Trump can easily get over these set backs! And because of his business , and not political approach , I will bet you he has learned big time with this ! And that is the difference between a typical politician an him ! I think Trump will learn and evolve/grow from this!
Here are the lessons :
1- The swamp is deeper then he thought !
2- He now knows exactly who is who in the complex factions of the GOP .
3- He has a glimpse of how the Washington two step works . And this applies to both Democrats and republicans.
4- Timing ! Its difference in political and business terms.
5- Difference between political and business deal making !
While a politician deals and plays with public money , and thus has no personal loss either way , a business man only gains if he gets it done !
6- Personal good will, effort and commitment alone wont get the job done , as he is used to in running his business.
You can be sure The Donald will learn from this , and while all his fanatic opponents are gloating , he is already busy analysing how to go forward !
So are there any benefits from this set back besides the lessons learned?
Yes !
Obama care already in trouble will eventually implode, creating a situation that will have both parties needing to do something ! What ?
Either a deep complete reform of Obama care , that in practice will be something new !
Or a new bill that results from the mistakes of both Obama care , and the failed one proposed to replace it !
In any case this will require both parties to grow up and work together !
Lets not forget that Trump as a pragmatic guy has no problem, in retaining any parts of Obamacare that actually work, this in opposition to the positions of some Republican factions that just want it repealed outright !
In that sense he is not partisan , so actually the guy to compromise , and get something that is simple , and works !
Besides..... The Donald has proven his ability to talk to big business and turn them around .
And I think we all agree that Drug, insurance companies and all other players in the health and medical care area need a reality check and a shake up ,and all previous attempts have failed !
Are you referring to the same Donald Trump? This is the guy who's main business tactic is to fuck everyone over, line his pockets, bankrupt what's left and walk away. How is that approach going to go with the US?
And how exactly do you define this 'swamp'? You are on about people, right? So what in your mind sets apart the supposed corrupt millionaires in there apart from the corrupt millionaires Trump is putting in?
-Matt
Lol... that is an easy one ! Remember the saying : " it takes one to know one"
Or ... The best thief is the ex cop, and vice versa ?
In order to change something , you have to know how it works !
Remember in the past , Trump was asked about about his financial support for politicians that he, now was against and how that made sense !
He responded by saying that as business man, he was only buying influence to protect his interests !
So it makes sense that someone who used to buy politicians is better prepared to drain a swamp he was in ! "'Conwaying' me again? Ok. So you say that it takes one to know one. So why is he filling the 'swamp' up further then? If he knows them so well, why isn't he draining it? Why is he filling it up with his cronies instead? -Matt | |||
"Trump is playing the art of the deal down to perfection here, he is thinking several steps ahead of everyone else. Trump said he wanted to be a team player and Paul Ryan and other republicans had a hand in this Healthcare plan which was so bad it would never get the votes it needed. Trump knew this first attempt would fail. Now Trump can ride in with a better plan of his own in 12 months when Obamacare implodes and fails. Then Trump will get all the kudos, the Democrats will be buried further, and even some Republicans who oppose Trump will end up looking like fools. Everyone thinks Trump has lost with this, but it will be Trump who ends up having the last laugh. "Yes Trump is playing the art of the deal perfectly and yes he is fantastic at it. Just a shame the he is not on the same side of the deal as the American public. He will do fantastically. Assuming he isn't arrested. -Matt | |||
"Trump is playing the art of the deal down to perfection here, he is thinking several steps ahead of everyone else. Trump said he wanted to be a team player and Paul Ryan and other republicans had a hand in this Healthcare plan which was so bad it would never get the votes it needed. Trump knew this first attempt would fail. Now Trump can ride in with a better plan of his own in 12 months when Obamacare implodes and fails. Then Trump will get all the kudos, the Democrats will be buried further, and even some Republicans who oppose Trump will end up looking like fools. Everyone thinks Trump has lost with this, but it will be Trump who ends up having the last laugh.
Yes Trump is playing the art of the deal perfectly and yes he is fantastic at it. Just a shame the he is not on the same side of the deal as the American public. He will do fantastically. Assuming he isn't arrested.
-Matt"Trump is on the same side as the American Public, you know the millions who voted for him to repeal and replace Obamacare, and that is exactly what will happen. | |||
"Trump is playing the art of the deal down to perfection here, he is thinking several steps ahead of everyone else. Trump said he wanted to be a team player and Paul Ryan and other republicans had a hand in this Healthcare plan which was so bad it would never get the votes it needed. Trump knew this first attempt would fail. Now Trump can ride in with a better plan of his own in 12 months when Obamacare implodes and fails. Then Trump will get all the kudos, the Democrats will be buried further, and even some Republicans who oppose Trump will end up looking like fools. Everyone thinks Trump has lost with this, but it will be Trump who ends up having the last laugh.
Yes Trump is playing the art of the deal perfectly and yes he is fantastic at it. Just a shame the he is not on the same side of the deal as the American public. He will do fantastically. Assuming he isn't arrested.
-Matt
Trump is on the same side as the American Public, you know the millions who voted for him to repeal and replace Obamacare, and that is exactly what will happen."You mean the 26 million people who voted to have health care taken away from them, right? Yeah, I'm gonna guess that they are pretty happy Trump's legislative agenda is dead in the water. | |||
"Trump is playing the art of the deal down to perfection here, he is thinking several steps ahead of everyone else. Trump said he wanted to be a team player and Paul Ryan and other republicans had a hand in this Healthcare plan which was so bad it would never get the votes it needed. Trump knew this first attempt would fail. Now Trump can ride in with a better plan of his own in 12 months when Obamacare implodes and fails. Then Trump will get all the kudos, the Democrats will be buried further, and even some Republicans who oppose Trump will end up looking like fools. Everyone thinks Trump has lost with this, but it will be Trump who ends up having the last laugh.
Yes Trump is playing the art of the deal perfectly and yes he is fantastic at it. Just a shame the he is not on the same side of the deal as the American public. He will do fantastically. Assuming he isn't arrested.
-Matt
Trump is on the same side as the American Public, you know the millions who voted for him to repeal and replace Obamacare, and that is exactly what will happen."Well, he's making a really crap job of it. Or is making a fool of himself part of the plan? | |||
"his healthcare bill went really well then love the way he then blamed the democrats..... i think he must have forgotten that he is a republican president with a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate... they had been voting for 7 years to get rid of it symbolically telling everyone who would listen they had a brilliant plan... and then they actually get to vote for real.... wha' happen!! That would be a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate many of whom never wanted Trump to be President. The republican party didn't want Trump to win, their preferred candidates were Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush. When Trump trashed them and easily beat them in the primaries many Republicans noses were put out of joint. Maybe this is their 'way' of getting some revenge on Trump now? The Democrats were always going to oppose this but it's no surprise to me that many Republicans also want to knife Trump in the back. When Trump said "Let's drain the swamp" there are many Republican snakes in the swamp besides the Democrats. As Trump says Obamacare will be a disaster and will blow up at some point anyway, then they will come begging to Trump to scrap it. Trump has 4 years to get rid of Obamacare so he has plenty of time to deliver on his promises to the people who voted for him. At least the voters can see Trump is trying to deliver on his election pledges, it's the snakes in the swamp who are fighting against it. The reasons Republicans were going to vote against the AHCA was nothing to do with Trump. It was bad legislation to begin with and then the Freedom Caucus dug in and won changes that made it even worse. The CBO said millions and millions would lose coverage altogether. The legislation itself made the standard of coverage worse and it was going to become more expensive because younger and healthier people were going to drop it altogether. Objectively,no matter which side of politics your on, this was going to result in worse coverage than before and higher premiums. The only reason to support it was ideological, if you dont believe in entitlements then you vote to repeal. It wasnt an anti-trump vote it was a bill that would kill the republicans at the voting booth and thats all there was to it. It does damage Trumps persona of being a deal maker and a closer though. Not really ! As business man Trump can easily get over these set backs! And because of his business , and not political approach , I will bet you he has learned big time with this ! And that is the difference between a typical politician an him ! I think Trump will learn and evolve/grow from this!
Here are the lessons :
1- The swamp is deeper then he thought !
2- He now knows exactly who is who in the complex factions of the GOP .
3- He has a glimpse of how the Washington two step works . And this applies to both Democrats and republicans.
4- Timing ! Its difference in political and business terms.
5- Difference between political and business deal making !
While a politician deals and plays with public money , and thus has no personal loss either way , a business man only gains if he gets it done !
6- Personal good will, effort and commitment alone wont get the job done , as he is used to in running his business.
You can be sure The Donald will learn from this , and while all his fanatic opponents are gloating , he is already busy analysing how to go forward !
So are there any benefits from this set back besides the lessons learned?
Yes !
Obama care already in trouble will eventually implode, creating a situation that will have both parties needing to do something ! What ?
Either a deep complete reform of Obama care , that in practice will be something new !
Or a new bill that results from the mistakes of both Obama care , and the failed one proposed to replace it !
In any case this will require both parties to grow up and work together !
Lets not forget that Trump as a pragmatic guy has no problem, in retaining any parts of Obamacare that actually work, this in opposition to the positions of some Republican factions that just want it repealed outright !
In that sense he is not partisan , so actually the guy to compromise , and get something that is simple , and works !
Besides..... The Donald has proven his ability to talk to big business and turn them around .
And I think we all agree that Drug, insurance companies and all other players in the health and medical care area need a reality check and a shake up ,and all previous attempts have failed !
Are you referring to the same Donald Trump? This is the guy who's main business tactic is to fuck everyone over, line his pockets, bankrupt what's left and walk away. How is that approach going to go with the US?
And how exactly do you define this 'swamp'? You are on about people, right? So what in your mind sets apart the supposed corrupt millionaires in there apart from the corrupt millionaires Trump is putting in?
-Matt
Lol... that is an easy one ! Remember the saying : " it takes one to know one"
Or ... The best thief is the ex cop, and vice versa ?
In order to change something , you have to know how it works !
Remember in the past , Trump was asked about about his financial support for politicians that he, now was against and how that made sense !
He responded by saying that as business man, he was only buying influence to protect his interests !
So it makes sense that someone who used to buy politicians is better prepared to drain a swamp he was in !
'Conwaying' me again? Ok. So you say that it takes one to know one. So why is he filling the 'swamp' up further then? If he knows them so well, why isn't he draining it? Why is he filling it up with his cronies instead?
-Matt"
Funny.... your are replying to yourself!
The reply to your question is in what I wrote ......and in your own question !
Unless .... you think.... its possible to drain swamp with people who have no clue of what a swamp is and how it works ! | |||
"Trump is playing the art of the deal down to perfection here, he is thinking several steps ahead of everyone else. Trump said he wanted to be a team player and Paul Ryan and other republicans had a hand in this Healthcare plan which was so bad it would never get the votes it needed. Trump knew this first attempt would fail. Now Trump can ride in with a better plan of his own in 12 months when Obamacare implodes and fails. Then Trump will get all the kudos, the Democrats will be buried further, and even some Republicans who oppose Trump will end up looking like fools. Everyone thinks Trump has lost with this, but it will be Trump who ends up having the last laugh.
Yes Trump is playing the art of the deal perfectly and yes he is fantastic at it. Just a shame the he is not on the same side of the deal as the American public. He will do fantastically. Assuming he isn't arrested.
-Matt
Trump is on the same side as the American Public, you know the millions who voted for him to repeal and replace Obamacare, and that is exactly what will happen.
Well, he's making a really crap job of it. Or is making a fool of himself part of the plan?"Its a question of perspective ! Do you think he gives a shit about what you or any others who think like you say ? And yes..... seeming foolish can be a means to an end ! As long as people underestimate him , he has the upper hand ! And that my dear, he has proven from the day he announced he was a candidate ! Yet..... its amazing how some have not learned that lesson ! | |||
| |||
"So, what you're saying is that rampant fuck-wittery is the new clever? He's not playing a long game, or boxing clever, he's just having his arse handed back to him at every turn. Eventually, he'll implode." Would you bet your life on that ? | |||
"So, what you're saying is that rampant fuck-wittery is the new clever? He's not playing a long game, or boxing clever, he's just having his arse handed back to him at every turn. Eventually, he'll implode. Would you bet your life on that ? "Yes, I probably would. For someone who supposedly doesn't care what people think of him, he makes a hell of a lot of noise on Twitter about anyone that disagrees with him. | |||
"his healthcare bill went really well then love the way he then blamed the democrats..... i think he must have forgotten that he is a republican president with a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate... they had been voting for 7 years to get rid of it symbolically telling everyone who would listen they had a brilliant plan... and then they actually get to vote for real.... wha' happen!! That would be a Republican majority House and a Republican majority senate many of whom never wanted Trump to be President. The republican party didn't want Trump to win, their preferred candidates were Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush. When Trump trashed them and easily beat them in the primaries many Republicans noses were put out of joint. Maybe this is their 'way' of getting some revenge on Trump now? The Democrats were always going to oppose this but it's no surprise to me that many Republicans also want to knife Trump in the back. When Trump said "Let's drain the swamp" there are many Republican snakes in the swamp besides the Democrats. As Trump says Obamacare will be a disaster and will blow up at some point anyway, then they will come begging to Trump to scrap it. Trump has 4 years to get rid of Obamacare so he has plenty of time to deliver on his promises to the people who voted for him. At least the voters can see Trump is trying to deliver on his election pledges, it's the snakes in the swamp who are fighting against it. The reasons Republicans were going to vote against the AHCA was nothing to do with Trump. It was bad legislation to begin with and then the Freedom Caucus dug in and won changes that made it even worse. The CBO said millions and millions would lose coverage altogether. The legislation itself made the standard of coverage worse and it was going to become more expensive because younger and healthier people were going to drop it altogether. Objectively,no matter which side of politics your on, this was going to result in worse coverage than before and higher premiums. The only reason to support it was ideological, if you dont believe in entitlements then you vote to repeal. It wasnt an anti-trump vote it was a bill that would kill the republicans at the voting booth and thats all there was to it. It does damage Trumps persona of being a deal maker and a closer though. Not really ! As business man Trump can easily get over these set backs! And because of his business , and not political approach , I will bet you he has learned big time with this ! And that is the difference between a typical politician an him ! I think Trump will learn and evolve/grow from this!
Here are the lessons :
1- The swamp is deeper then he thought !
2- He now knows exactly who is who in the complex factions of the GOP .
3- He has a glimpse of how the Washington two step works . And this applies to both Democrats and republicans.
4- Timing ! Its difference in political and business terms.
5- Difference between political and business deal making !
While a politician deals and plays with public money , and thus has no personal loss either way , a business man only gains if he gets it done !
6- Personal good will, effort and commitment alone wont get the job done , as he is used to in running his business.
You can be sure The Donald will learn from this , and while all his fanatic opponents are gloating , he is already busy analysing how to go forward !
So are there any benefits from this set back besides the lessons learned?
Yes !
Obama care already in trouble will eventually implode, creating a situation that will have both parties needing to do something ! What ?
Either a deep complete reform of Obama care , that in practice will be something new !
Or a new bill that results from the mistakes of both Obama care , and the failed one proposed to replace it !
In any case this will require both parties to grow up and work together !
Lets not forget that Trump as a pragmatic guy has no problem, in retaining any parts of Obamacare that actually work, this in opposition to the positions of some Republican factions that just want it repealed outright !
In that sense he is not partisan , so actually the guy to compromise , and get something that is simple , and works !
Besides..... The Donald has proven his ability to talk to big business and turn them around .
And I think we all agree that Drug, insurance companies and all other players in the health and medical care area need a reality check and a shake up ,and all previous attempts have failed !
Are you referring to the same Donald Trump? This is the guy who's main business tactic is to fuck everyone over, line his pockets, bankrupt what's left and walk away. How is that approach going to go with the US?
And how exactly do you define this 'swamp'? You are on about people, right? So what in your mind sets apart the supposed corrupt millionaires in there apart from the corrupt millionaires Trump is putting in?
-Matt
Lol... that is an easy one ! Remember the saying : " it takes one to know one"
Or ... The best thief is the ex cop, and vice versa ?
In order to change something , you have to know how it works !
Remember in the past , Trump was asked about about his financial support for politicians that he, now was against and how that made sense !
He responded by saying that as business man, he was only buying influence to protect his interests !
So it makes sense that someone who used to buy politicians is better prepared to drain a swamp he was in !
'Conwaying' me again? Ok. So you say that it takes one to know one. So why is he filling the 'swamp' up further then? If he knows them so well, why isn't he draining it? Why is he filling it up with his cronies instead?
-Matt
Funny.... your are replying to yourself!
The reply to your question is in what I wrote ......and in your own question !
Unless .... you think.... its possible to drain swamp with people who have no clue of what a swamp is and how it works ! "No you haven't answered it. And no the answer to the question is not in what I wrote. Just more 'conwaying' from you. Repeating a word or two from the question without answering it. Or maybe the distinction is just too subtle for you? It really isn't that subtle. Let's try again: You say that Trump is draining the swamp I say he isn't You say that he is as it 'takes one to know one' referring to snakes in the swamp I say that just because he is one and can recognise one, doesn't mean he is draining it. Do you get it now? So, just to ask the question again. Very explicitly: How do you define the 'swamp'? What characteristics of the people in it make it what it is? -Matt | |||
"So, what you're saying is that rampant fuck-wittery is the new clever? He's not playing a long game, or boxing clever, he's just having his arse handed back to him at every turn. Eventually, he'll implode. Would you bet your life on that ?
Yes, I probably would.
For someone who supposedly doesn't care what people think of him, he makes a hell of a lot of noise on Twitter about anyone that disagrees with him. "Probably ? Not so sure of yourself then !
Or is it is just common sense not to bet against someone who got to where he is defying all odds ?
You don't get it, do YOU ?
All that noise on twitter is part of the game ! | |||
| |||
"The problem is this small DC elite pursue their interests, forgetting and not caring about the rest of the people in the US ! "Indeed. Which is why I find it strange that Trump is putting more into the 'swamp'. First you say it takes one to know one... then you say he doesn't know so has to put more in... at what point do you expect his 'swamp snakes' he is putting in to come reporting back to him about what they know so that he can fired them all? Doesn't sound all that likely to me. Occam's Razor says he is just furthering his own interests. -Matt | |||
"The problem is this small DC elite pursue their interests, forgetting and not caring about the rest of the people in the US !
Indeed. Which is why I find it strange that Trump is putting more into the 'swamp'. First you say it takes one to know one... then you say he doesn't know so has to put more in... at what point do you expect his 'swamp snakes' he is putting in to come reporting back to him about what they know so that he can fired them all? Doesn't sound all that likely to me.
Occam's Razor says he is just furthering his own interests.
-Matt"Honestly ! I don't know ! But it seems to me he had a more peaceful existence when he was just running his business and being a TV celeb ! It also cant be fun to have the media go after his family, in what could be termed as harassment! Very low of them! He is certainly not doing it for the money , or travel perks is he? I remember a lot of the same BS was said about Reagan , questioning his ability for the job ! And how does history record him now? At the end of the day we are all offering different perspectives based on our views ! Time will tell... | |||
"The problem is this small DC elite pursue their interests, forgetting and not caring about the rest of the people in the US !
Indeed. Which is why I find it strange that Trump is putting more into the 'swamp'. First you say it takes one to know one... then you say he doesn't know so has to put more in... at what point do you expect his 'swamp snakes' he is putting in to come reporting back to him about what they know so that he can fired them all? Doesn't sound all that likely to me.
Occam's Razor says he is just furthering his own interests.
-Matt
Honestly ! I don't know !
But it seems to me he had a more peaceful existence when he was just running his business and being a TV celeb !
It also cant be fun to have the media go after his family, in what could be termed as harassment! Very low of them!
He is certainly not doing it for the money , or travel perks is he?
I remember a lot of the same BS was said about Reagan , questioning his ability for the job ! And how does history record him now?
At the end of the day we are all offering different perspectives based on our views !
Time will tell... "Not doing it for the money?! Seriously open your fucking eyes. Just a single example out of a sea of examples is the fact that suddenly the membership fee to Mar-a-lago has doubled from $100,000 to $200,000. Then look past all the Russia stuff to the Chinese deals that son-in-law Kushner is making... he is $4B in debt to the Chinese, and then co-drove the killing of the TPP deal. Now they've just 'forgiven' 4/5 of that debt. Oh and Trump is receiving Chinese President Xi Jinping at Mar-A-Lago next month, and intends to tell him how he totally supports the 'One China' policy. Yeah... not in it for the money, my arse. -Matt | |||
"So, what you're saying is that rampant fuck-wittery is the new clever? He's not playing a long game, or boxing clever, he's just having his arse handed back to him at every turn. Eventually, he'll implode. Would you bet your life on that ?
Yes, I probably would.
For someone who supposedly doesn't care what people think of him, he makes a hell of a lot of noise on Twitter about anyone that disagrees with him.
Probably ?
Not so sure of yourself then !
Or is it is just common sense not to bet against someone who got to where he is defying all odds ?
You don't get it, do YOU ?
All that noise on twitter is part of the game ! "No, it was 'probably', because I assumed the question was rhetorical. | |||
"The problem is this small DC elite pursue their interests, forgetting and not caring about the rest of the people in the US !
Indeed. Which is why I find it strange that Trump is putting more into the 'swamp'. First you say it takes one to know one... then you say he doesn't know so has to put more in... at what point do you expect his 'swamp snakes' he is putting in to come reporting back to him about what they know so that he can fired them all? Doesn't sound all that likely to me.
Occam's Razor says he is just furthering his own interests.
-Matt
Honestly ! I don't know !
But it seems to me he had a more peaceful existence when he was just running his business and being a TV celeb !
It also cant be fun to have the media go after his family, in what could be termed as harassment! Very low of them!
He is certainly not doing it for the money , or travel perks is he?
I remember a lot of the same BS was said about Reagan , questioning his ability for the job ! And how does history record him now?
At the end of the day we are all offering different perspectives based on our views !
Time will tell...
Not doing it for the money?! Seriously open your fucking eyes. Just a single example out of a sea of examples is the fact that suddenly the membership fee to Mar-a-lago has doubled from $100,000 to $200,000. Then look past all the Russia stuff to the Chinese deals that son-in-law Kushner is making... he is $4B in debt to the Chinese, and then co-drove the killing of the TPP deal. Now they've just 'forgiven' 4/5 of that debt. Oh and Trump is receiving Chinese President Xi Jinping at Mar-A-Lago next month, and intends to tell him how he totally supports the 'One China' policy.
Yeah... not in it for the money, my arse.
-Matt"He made around $10m from charging the secret service to fly on his plane when they were protecting him! | |||
"So, what you're saying is that rampant fuck-wittery is the new clever? He's not playing a long game, or boxing clever, he's just having his arse handed back to him at every turn. Eventually, he'll implode. Would you bet your life on that ?
Yes, I probably would.
For someone who supposedly doesn't care what people think of him, he makes a hell of a lot of noise on Twitter about anyone that disagrees with him.
Probably ?
Not so sure of yourself then !
Or is it is just common sense not to bet against someone who got to where he is defying all odds ?
You don't get it, do YOU ?
All that noise on twitter is part of the game !
No, it was 'probably', because I assumed the question was rhetorical.
"You assumed wrong!
Its challenge, a question of "putting your money where your mouth is"
Or is it not true that, when he announced he was a candidate, everybody dismissed it as joke ,claiming he wouldn't make it passed his party´s primaries ? | |||
