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How will your life improve after Brexit?
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"TBH, I don't see my life improving. I see it getting worse and certainly much worse for my children. Regarding holidays in Europe, it'll be back to a couple of bottles wine and a few hundred fags (not that I smoke). Anyone remember the time when we were limited to the amount of cash you could take abroad? " Yes I do remember that time but that was for economic reasons that could not exist today. I am very sure in time your children will be better off in time as Europe decends in to chaos and they will thank people like me for voting to leave the EU. I know you like to slag off brexiteers but you will be proved wrong I am 100% certain,please try to be a bit more open minded and strive for a better future rather than just being negative. Or maybe take your family to live abroad,you do not why?I know that answer | |||
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"nothing will improve until the right wing have been removed from government" We will all be dead by the lol | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my son" Well said the other side do not seem to understand this | |||
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" I am very sure in time your children will be better off in time as Europe decends in to chaos and they will thank people like me for voting to leave the EU. I know you like to slag off brexiteers but you will be proved wrong I am 100% certain,please try to be a bit more open minded and strive for a better future rather than just being negative. Or maybe take your family to live abroad,you do not why?I know that answer" How can you conceivably be 100% certain? It's exactly this inability to see any possible downside that is so frustrating. Are you able to be more open minded? I think Brexit will diminish us but will concede that it's possible that things will work out fine even though nobody has provided any information to convince me. Whitaker it so difficult for Leavers to acknowledge doubt? It's like religion. | |||
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"Just wondering in what way people feel that their lives will improve once the UK is free of the EU? Unfortunately I can't see any personal changes that would be beneficial for me as most of the things that I enjoy are going on one curtailed in some way. Travel is our hobby and open skies and open borders will not include the U.K. and presumably the EU reduced roaming fees will also not include the U.K. I would be interested to know who feels that they will materially benefit and in what way." I've asked this question before based on how it improves our lives with respect to the NHS, social care, education or we'll paid jobs. Never an answer. | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my son" How does it improve your son's life as you are being so selfless? | |||
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"Nobody's life will improve. People were sold up the river on a raft of false promises for the sole reason of masking a Tory power struggle. The pound has dropped 20 percent of its value before anything has actually happened. Any WTO regulated trade deals we eventually come up with will, by definition, be worse than we already have. We'll have introduced trade tariffs between ourselves and the biggest free trade organisation on the planet, and mortgaged the future of our children by denying them the free movement to love, work and study that we have all enjoyed. In terms of shit decisions, this is the greatest act of national self harm since Germany invaded Poland. " Actually, joining the EEC was invading Poland. Leaving the EU is invading Russia... | |||
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"Nobody's life will improve. People were sold up the river on a raft of false promises for the sole reason of masking a Tory power struggle." ain't that a fact i'll just add that i couldn't give a toss about the prospects for some idiots brats ..... another 15 years of stagnation on top of the last 7 years of stagnation is what the fuck-wit cockwombles who govern us have promised.... and if that's what they intend to deliver then no fucker will benefit from anything, eu membership or not | |||
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" I am very sure in time your children will be better off in time as Europe decends in to chaos and they will thank people like me for voting to leave the EU. I know you like to slag off brexiteers but you will be proved wrong I am 100% certain,please try to be a bit more open minded and strive for a better future rather than just being negative. Or maybe take your family to live abroad,you do not why?I know that answer How can you conceivably be 100% certain? It's exactly this inability to see any possible downside that is so frustrating. Are you able to be more open minded? I think Brexit will diminish us but will concede that it's possible that things will work out fine even though nobody has provided any information to convince me. Whitaker it so difficult for Leavers to acknowledge doubt? It's like religion." A fair point,how can I be 100%certain,well maybe I should say confident,it will not happen at first and I believe this to be so.Many remainers are 100%the other way which baffles me.We have to handle the cards we are dealt and make the best of it and if we do that as a nation all will be good. | |||
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" I am very sure in time your children will be better off in time as Europe decends in to chaos and they will thank people like me for voting to leave the EU. I know you like to slag off brexiteers but you will be proved wrong I am 100% certain,please try to be a bit more open minded and strive for a better future rather than just being negative. Or maybe take your family to live abroad,you do not why?I know that answer How can you conceivably be 100% certain? It's exactly this inability to see any possible downside that is so frustrating. Are you able to be more open minded? I think Brexit will diminish us but will concede that it's possible that things will work out fine even though nobody has provided any information to convince me. Whitaker it so difficult for Leavers to acknowledge doubt? It's like religion.A fair point,how can I be 100%certain,well maybe I should say confident,it will not happen at first and I believe this to be so.Many remainers are 100%the other way which baffles me.We have to handle the cards we are dealt and make the best of it and if we do that as a nation all will be good." Maybe if you could provide some evidence to give substance to your belief, that would be helpful. People believe in flying saucers, santa claus, and all sorts of things. When Trump was elected President, the value of the dollar hardly budged. When the UK voted, by the slimmest of margins, to leave the EU, the pound went down quicker than a $10 crack-whore. That's our national share price, it's what the rest of the world thinks of our future direction. How anyone can still believe that this is anything short of a national disaster is completely beyond me. Scary, positively scary. | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my son" Explain that: please do. | |||
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"Leaving the EU will not effect you going on holiday in any way and I am baffled as to where this idea comes from. I will be retired by the time we leave an hope to travel a bit on hols and do not expect any problems exept the joy of showing my British passport. I am worried that there will be some high inflation for a couple of years but it will settle down in time as we begin to prosper. If you have children they will grow up in a more successful happier Britain,this will not happen at first but in the long run all will be good." Have you not noticed that with the drop in the value of the pound, trips abroad are now 15-20% more expensive?? There's only one way the pound's going and that's down the pan. So, your assertion that travel will not be affected is total rubbish. This year I shall have to have one holiday less than usual because of the pound's drop from $1.49 to $1.22.....thanks a bunch you brexiteers. | |||
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"My life will not improve... Most peoples lives will not improve... I will probably become significantly poorer than I am today... Most people will probably become significantly poorer than they are today... But 52% (of those who expressed a preference) are going to get their way and everyone else is along for the ride. With luck the 30% who cant be arsed to vote will find the experience unpleasant enough to encourage them off their arses and into the polling stations in future. "You can be so negative. In 5 years,you'll be thinking, what was I thinking.   | |||
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"Leaving the EU will not effect you going on holiday in any way and I am baffled as to where this idea comes from. I will be retired by the time we leave an hope to travel a bit on hols and do not expect any problems exept the joy of showing my British passport. I am worried that there will be some high inflation for a couple of years but it will settle down in time as we begin to prosper. If you have children they will grow up in a more successful happier Britain,this will not happen at first but in the long run all will be good. Have you not noticed that with the drop in the value of the pound, trips abroad are now 15-20% more expensive?? There's only one way the pound's going and that's down the pan. So, your assertion that travel will not be affected is total rubbish. This year I shall have to have one holiday less than usual because of the pound's drop from $1.49 to $1.22.....thanks a bunch you brexiteers." Just for you, here is the average amount of euros your pound could have bought over the last decade. 31 Dec 2008 1.259467 31 Dec 2009 1.12246 31 Dec 2010 1.165737 31 Dec 2011 1.15258 31 Dec 2012 1.233263 31 Dec 2013 1.177964 31 Dec 2014 1.240494 31 Dec 2015 1.377982 31 Dec 2016 1.224833 10 Mar 2017 1.165218 The average over the last decade has been about €1.21 to the pound. So in other words you got one extra holiday last year. | |||
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" I am very sure in time your children will be better off in time as Europe decends in to chaos and they will thank people like me for voting to leave the EU. I know you like to slag off brexiteers but you will be proved wrong I am 100% certain,please try to be a bit more open minded and strive for a better future rather than just being negative. Or maybe take your family to live abroad,you do not why?I know that answer How can you conceivably be 100% certain? It's exactly this inability to see any possible downside that is so frustrating. Are you able to be more open minded? I think Brexit will diminish us but will concede that it's possible that things will work out fine even though nobody has provided any information to convince me. Whitaker it so difficult for Leavers to acknowledge doubt? It's like religion.A fair point,how can I be 100%certain,well maybe I should say confident,it will not happen at first and I believe this to be so.Many remainers are 100%the other way which baffles me.We have to handle the cards we are dealt and make the best of it and if we do that as a nation all will be good. Maybe if you could provide some evidence to give substance to your belief, that would be helpful. People believe in flying saucers, santa claus, and all sorts of things. When Trump was elected President, the value of the dollar hardly budged. When the UK voted, by the slimmest of margins, to leave the EU, the pound went down quicker than a $10 crack-whore. That's our national share price, it's what the rest of the world thinks of our future direction. How anyone can still believe that this is anything short of a national disaster is completely beyond me. Scary, positively scary. " Luckily for us investors in the UK do not believe in your gloomy scenario. The stock market has reached an all time high . This is hardly a sign of a lack of confidence . It is inevitable that an over valued currency will fall. As a result of the fall in currency values , out exports are a lot more competitive . | |||
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"Well Brexit will probably mean more jobs for Dublin, more money being spent here, higher tax revenue without tax increases, lower social spending so maybe even tax decreases. It'll work pretty well for Ireland. Plus Im kind of a dick so part of me will enjoy the schadenfreude of the Brexiters slowly realising that all the companies that talk about leaving arent just saying it, theyre actually working on leaving and they realise they voted to fuck their own economy." Luckily the UK stock market is booming and does not share your pessimistic view. It is at an all time high. Why would a any company want to incur the expense of moving abroad . A few will but that would have happened in any event . | |||
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"Just wondering in what way people feel that their lives will improve once the UK is free of the EU? Unfortunately I can't see any personal changes that would be beneficial for me as most of the things that I enjoy are going on one curtailed in some way. Travel is our hobby and open skies and open borders will not include the U.K. and presumably the EU reduced roaming fees will also not include the U.K. I would be interested to know who feels that they will materially benefit and in what way." * Abolition European human rights so criminals would not be able to use it as grounds to avoid deportation. * Lower energy costs . We have not have to adhere to the EU green policies * I will be able to buy the type or light bulbs that I want . * Border control so we will be safer. *. Withdrawn of CPD so I will be able to drive buses and lorries commercially * Reduced immigration will mean less strain on the infrastructure and NHS . * More money to spend by the government in the UK as we are net contributors to the EU and will save these costs . | |||
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"Nobody's life will improve. People were sold up the river on a raft of false promises for the sole reason of masking a Tory power struggle. ain't that a fact i'll just add that i couldn't give a toss about the prospects for some idiots brats ..... another 15 years of stagnation on top of the last 7 years of stagnation is what the fuck-wit cockwombles who govern us have promised.... and if that's what they intend to deliver then no fucker will benefit from anything, eu membership or not" Luckily there is little evidence of any stagnation. Car sale are at an all time high and lots of new coffee shops . Hardly stagnation. | |||
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" * Abolition European human rights so criminals would not be able to use it as grounds to avoid deportation." OK, what about all the other good uses of the human rights act? What about the rights to the freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom for peaceful protest etc etc? I'm not even going to bring up the fact that the ECHR of distinct from the EU, and we haven't voted to leave the Council of Europe. So this is a load of bollocks. " * Lower energy costs . We have not have to adhere to the EU green policies " Great, so our energy providers can race to the bottom of the price scale and fuck up the planet in the process? Awesome. I'm sure all those people who voted to leave "For their kids" would love to agree with you on that one. Piss on the fire Jack, my sausages are done. Who gives a fuck about our environment, so long as Pat has lower energy costs " * I will be able to buy the type or light bulbs that I want . " Well good for you. Really? Is that the best you could come up with as to how life post-EU for the UK is going to be better? Lightbulbs? For fucks sake. " * Border control so we will be safer. " How? Why? We already control our borders. We already participate in EU-wide sharing of criminal data for the use at our borders. If we have to leave the arrangement then our borders will be less safe. Anyway, Mr Bad Hombre can just waltz across from Eire (The southern but if the Irish Isles, that is part of the EU, and uses Euros) into Northern Ireland (The northern bit of the irish isles, that is a part of the U and uses GBP... just thought I'd remind you... or any potential polling companies that may be reading). As we won't have a hard border between the two. " *. Withdrawn of CPD so I will be able to drive buses and lorries commercially " Again, saving a few pennies and hours by dropping safety standards. Wasn't it you that was also complaining that British heating boilers were more expensive as they had to be safety certified to a common EU standard... so that I can buy a cheaper boiler from another EU country and have some confidence that it meets the same safety standard I am used to at home. " * Reduced immigration will mean less strain on the infrastructure and NHS . " How? Why? Isn't Theresa may trying to do trade deals with Indian, China etc? What do you think they might want in return? I think you'll find you are going to be swapping one immigrant for another. And as has been discussed on here before, currently if you don't have a job, you are not entitled to NHS healthcare after a few months anyway. So those that are using our NHS must have a job and are contributing to our economy. Not to mention all the foreign staff that work in our NHS due to our shit-shower of a government (and it's predecessors) not investing in training up our own workforce. "We could train our own!" the Brexiteers yell. Yeah? Why arent we then? Why didn't we 7 years ago, so they'd be ready now? " * More money to spend by the government in the UK as we are net contributors to the EU and will save these costs . " Ahhh yes... the £350M... I'd almost forgotten about that. That will be great when it finally arrives. As I've pointed out repeatedly to you, how do you think we are going to pay for all the additional services we are going to need to create to replace the ones we will lose access to when we leave the EU? Let alone the fact that the actual costs of leaving the EU have already eaten up many years of our contribution costs. Why has our chancellor had to come up with a "Brexit-proof" budget (at least he wasn't fucking stupid enough to actually utter those words himself, AFAIK), if everything is plain sailing and we are going to be so financially better off when we leave and get this lovely windfall? In short Pat, if I were a Leaver I'd be very fucking embarrassed if that is the best of reasons that can be come up with as to how we are going to be better off out of the EU. Most are just completely false. Some are pretty much insignificant, and many are only true in the alternate reality you live in. -Matt | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my son Explain that: please do." Well, as Pitt the Younger said after Trafalgar- 'we have saved ourselves by our exertions and we shall save Europe by our example'. How apt for today. The EU is a mess and has created poverty and social unrest throughout Europe because of its policy towards immigration from outside the EU and from within and from its disastrous introduction of the Euro and its fiscal policies. It has created a divided Europe, North v South and resentment between nations will only increase. Open your eyes to what is happening. The rise of extremist parties throughout Europe is no accident, it is confirmation that for millions of people the EU isn't working and the way they are headed things will only get worse. I want a more forward looking and prosperous Europe where growth and opportunity and innovation is not stifled by protectionism and control by Brussels for the benefit of the few over the many. I could go on but basically I want a fairer and more harmonious/peaceful Europe for my son to grow up in and hopefully Brexit will be the kick start towards this because something had to be done. Roaming charges ffs  | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my son Explain that: please do. Well, as Pitt the Younger said after Trafalgar- 'we have saved ourselves by our exertions and we shall save Europe by our example'. How apt for today. The EU is a mess and has created poverty and social unrest throughout Europe because of its policy towards immigration from outside the EU and from within and from its disastrous introduction of the Euro and its fiscal policies. It has created a divided Europe, North v South and resentment between nations will only increase. Open your eyes to what is happening. The rise of extremist parties throughout Europe is no accident, it is confirmation that for millions of people the EU isn't working and the way they are headed things will only get worse. I want a more forward looking and prosperous Europe where growth and opportunity and innovation is not stifled by protectionism and control by Brussels for the benefit of the few over the many. I could go on but basically I want a fairer and more harmonious/peaceful Europe for my son to grow up in and hopefully Brexit will be the kick start towards this because something had to be done. Roaming charges ffs "Be careful what you wish for! Extreme right was on the rise in the 1930's and look what happened? Nobody knows what is going to happen - time will tell - so let's just see who was right and who was wrong? | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my son Explain that: please do. Well, as Pitt the Younger said after Trafalgar- 'we have saved ourselves by our exertions and we shall save Europe by our example'. How apt for today. The EU is a mess and has created poverty and social unrest throughout Europe because of its policy towards immigration from outside the EU and from within and from its disastrous introduction of the Euro and its fiscal policies. It has created a divided Europe, North v South and resentment between nations will only increase. Open your eyes to what is happening. The rise of extremist parties throughout Europe is no accident, it is confirmation that for millions of people the EU isn't working and the way they are headed things will only get worse. I want a more forward looking and prosperous Europe where growth and opportunity and innovation is not stifled by protectionism and control by Brussels for the benefit of the few over the many. I could go on but basically I want a fairer and more harmonious/peaceful Europe for my son to grow up in and hopefully Brexit will be the kick start towards this because something had to be done. Roaming charges ffs
Be careful what you wish for! Extreme right was on the rise in the 1930's and look what happened? Nobody knows what is going to happen - time will tell - so let's just see who was right and who was wrong? "yes and I'm hoping to stop it. Can't you see that its on the rise because of the EU? | |||
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"Can someone explain to me the logic of building & installing wind turbines that in their very manufacture, transport, installation & maintenance will consume more resources than they will ever supply. So quite literally a big blot on the landscape for fuck all.. S S " i can explain that in some detail .... whoever told you that is a complete fucking lying cunt .... there you go .... next! | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my son Explain that: please do. Well, as Pitt the Younger said after Trafalgar- 'we have saved ourselves by our exertions and we shall save Europe by our example'. How apt for today. The EU is a mess and has created poverty and social unrest throughout Europe because of its policy towards immigration from outside the EU and from within and from its disastrous introduction of the Euro and its fiscal policies. It has created a divided Europe, North v South and resentment between nations will only increase. Open your eyes to what is happening. The rise of extremist parties throughout Europe is no accident, it is confirmation that for millions of people the EU isn't working and the way they are headed things will only get worse. I want a more forward looking and prosperous Europe where growth and opportunity and innovation is not stifled by protectionism and control by Brussels for the benefit of the few over the many. I could go on but basically I want a fairer and more harmonious/peaceful Europe for my son to grow up in and hopefully Brexit will be the kick start towards this because something had to be done. Roaming charges ffs
Be careful what you wish for! Extreme right was on the rise in the 1930's and look what happened? Nobody knows what is going to happen - time will tell - so let's just see who was right and who was wrong?
yes and I'm hoping to stop it. Can't you see that its on the rise because of the EU?"No, it is on the rise due to rampant xenophobia and nationalism, being stoked by right-wing politicians, media and divisive government policies. How do you see being out of the EU is going to stop that? Does being out of the EU mean we are going to stop dropping bombs on countries and displacing their citizens? Does being out of the EU mean we are going to completely pull up the drawbridge and turn our back on any and all refugees and our international obligations? Does being out of the EU mean that the likes of The Sun are going to stop their war on the imaginary crisis of 'disability benefit scroungers'? Does being out of the EU mean we are going to stop letting multinational corporations get away with not paying their taxes here? Does being out of the EU mean we are going to stop the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer? -Matt | |||
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"Can someone explain to me the logic of building & installing wind turbines that in their very manufacture, transport, installation & maintenance will consume more resources than they will ever supply. So quite literally a big blot on the landscape for fuck all.. S S " Well said . The only people who gain are the farmers who rent the land. They are simply a horrible blight on the landscape . | |||
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"Can someone explain to me the logic of building & installing wind turbines that in their very manufacture, transport, installation & maintenance will consume more resources than they will ever supply. So quite literally a big blot on the landscape for fuck all.. S S " There is no logic in that, but luckily that is a hypothetical load of bullshit you just wrote there and nothing to do with reality! Personally I think wind turbines are quite pretty, much more elegant than ugly power pylons that already crisscross our landscape, yet no one ever seems to mention them as being a blot on our landscape. I mean don't put them in national parks, but the rest of the UK is heavily shaped by man already. None of this has anything to do with leaving the EU though! | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my son Explain that: please do. Well, as Pitt the Younger said after Trafalgar- 'we have saved ourselves by our exertions and we shall save Europe by our example'. How apt for today. The EU is a mess and has created poverty and social unrest throughout Europe because of its policy towards immigration from outside the EU and from within and from its disastrous introduction of the Euro and its fiscal policies. It has created a divided Europe, North v South and resentment between nations will only increase. Open your eyes to what is happening. The rise of extremist parties throughout Europe is no accident, it is confirmation that for millions of people the EU isn't working and the way they are headed things will only get worse. I want a more forward looking and prosperous Europe where growth and opportunity and innovation is not stifled by protectionism and control by Brussels for the benefit of the few over the many. I could go on but basically I want a fairer and more harmonious/peaceful Europe for my son to grow up in and hopefully Brexit will be the kick start towards this because something had to be done. Roaming charges ffs
Be careful what you wish for! Extreme right was on the rise in the 1930's and look what happened? Nobody knows what is going to happen - time will tell - so let's just see who was right and who was wrong?
yes and I'm hoping to stop it. Can't you see that its on the rise because of the EU?" You are hoping to stop the rise of the far right?! | |||
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"Leaving the EU will not effect you going on holiday in any way and I am baffled as to where this idea comes from. I will be retired by the time we leave an hope to travel a bit on hols and do not expect any problems exept the joy of showing my British passport. I am worried that there will be some high inflation for a couple of years but it will settle down in time as we begin to prosper. If you have children they will grow up in a more successful happier Britain,this will not happen at first but in the long run all will be good." How though?? Where is the reasoning behind your assertion? Do you know what the European open skies policy is? Do you know why Ryanair, EasyJet and others were so opposed to the UK leaving the EU? The EU has always been much more about the quality of life of its citizens than any national government that I can remember. Anti pollution measures have brought us cleaner beaches and a cleaner environment. European workers legislation has brought us fairer pay between men and women, reduced working hours and better working conditions. What exactly do you think is going to happen to make the UK a happier and more successful place? | |||
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" I would be interested to know who feels that they will materially benefit and in what way. * Abolition European human rights so criminals would not be able to use it as grounds to avoid deportation. * Lower energy costs . We have not have to adhere to the EU green policies * I will be able to buy the type or light bulbs that I want . * Border control so we will be safer. *. Withdrawn of CPD so I will be able to drive buses and lorries commercially * Reduced immigration will mean less strain on the infrastructure and NHS . * More money to spend by the government in the UK as we are net contributors to the EU and will save these costs . " So many things you repeat have been addressed. If you would mind at least acknowledging this it would be helpful: European Court of Human Rights is NOT an EU body. The legal decisions made by them win remain enforce even if we leave until tested in a UK court and could be upheld. There is a reason for clean energy legislation for the future generations you claim to be worried about. What might that be? Light bulbs. Really? See above. Border control for safety. Because EU immigrants carry out more crimes than the British or other foreign immigrants? Would you care to check the figures? We course turn away those with criminal records now. We don't though do we? How many criminals have avoided deportation due to this? No idea what CPD is. Do please share. It sounds like you'd like to reduce the training required to drive a lorry or bus. Is that a good thing? Less immigration to reduce the "strain" on hospitals and schools? Is that the reason why these services are in trouble? Do they use more resources than the British? EU immigrants make up about 5% of English NHS staff and about 5% of the English population, according to the best available data. Across the UK, EU immigrants make up 10% of registered doctors and 4% of registered nurses. What do we receive in exchange for EU contributions? Nothing? Has it been a charitable act? The stock market has risen. Which firms? Do you understand the irony of the fact that it is companies with large holdings and sales in foreign countries that have benefited primarily because their foreign earnings converted to a weaker pound increased on paper having done nothing. UK centred companies have performed poorly. What's your theory? Exports are cheaper and the cost of imported materials and components has risen. What's the net outcome? The UK car market is unique in that the "sales" have a particularly high proportion of preregistered vehicles to maintain volume which are then sold at a discount by dealers. They are not even sold. They are financed and never owned so highly dependent on credit with interest rates tied to, now increasing, inflation. I won't mention this year's figures and projections because you'll just refuse to believe them. Think in the round. What's happening and why. At the very least acknowledge other indications. | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my son Explain that: please do. Well, as Pitt the Younger said after Trafalgar- 'we have saved ourselves by our exertions and we shall save Europe by our example'. How apt for today. The EU is a mess and has created poverty and social unrest throughout Europe because of its policy towards immigration from outside the EU and from within and from its disastrous introduction of the Euro and its fiscal policies. It has created a divided Europe, North v South and resentment between nations will only increase. Open your eyes to what is happening. The rise of extremist parties throughout Europe is no accident, it is confirmation that for millions of people the EU isn't working and the way they are headed things will only get worse. I want a more forward looking and prosperous Europe where growth and opportunity and innovation is not stifled by protectionism and control by Brussels for the benefit of the few over the many. I could go on but basically I want a fairer and more harmonious/peaceful Europe for my son to grow up in and hopefully Brexit will be the kick start towards this because something had to be done. Roaming charges ffs
Be careful what you wish for! Extreme right was on the rise in the 1930's and look what happened? Nobody knows what is going to happen - time will tell - so let's just see who was right and who was wrong?
yes and I'm hoping to stop it. Can't you see that its on the rise because of the EU?
No, it is on the rise due to rampant xenophobia and nationalism, being stoked by right-wing politicians, media and divisive government policies.
How do you see being out of the EU is going to stop that? Does being out of the EU mean we are going to stop dropping bombs on countries and displacing their citizens? Does being out of the EU mean we are going to completely pull up the drawbridge and turn our back on any and all refugees and our international obligations? Does being out of the EU mean that the likes of The Sun are going to stop their war on the imaginary crisis of 'disability benefit scroungers'? Does being out of the EU mean we are going to stop letting multinational corporations get away with not paying their taxes here? Does being out of the EU mean we are going to stop the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer?
-Matt"But its not just the rise of the far right, there is a rise of the far left, so how do you explain that? And what are your solutions for a better Europe then? | |||
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"Can someone explain to me the logic of building & installing wind turbines that in their very manufacture, transport, installation & maintenance will consume more resources than they will ever supply. So quite literally a big blot on the landscape for fuck all.. S S i can explain that in some detail .... whoever told you that is a complete fucking lying cunt .... there you go .... next!" The voice of socialism  | |||
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" I would be interested to know who feels that they will materially benefit and in what way. * Abolition European human rights so criminals would not be able to use it as grounds to avoid deportation. * Lower energy costs . We have not have to adhere to the EU green policies * I will be able to buy the type or light bulbs that I want . * Border control so we will be safer. *. Withdrawn of CPD so I will be able to drive buses and lorries commercially * Reduced immigration will mean less strain on the infrastructure and NHS . * More money to spend by the government in the UK as we are net contributors to the EU and will save these costs . So many things you repeat have been addressed. If you would mind at least acknowledging this it would be helpful: European Court of Human Rights is NOT an EU body. The legal decisions made by them win remain enforce even if we leave until tested in a UK court and could be upheld. There is a reason for clean energy legislation for the future generations you claim to be worried about. What might that be? Light bulbs. Really? See above. Border control for safety. Because EU immigrants carry out more crimes than the British or other foreign immigrants? Would you care to check the figures? We course turn away those with criminal records now. We don't though do we? How many criminals have avoided deportation due to this? No idea what CPD is. Do please share. It sounds like you'd like to reduce the training required to drive a lorry or bus. Is that a good thing? Less immigration to reduce the "strain" on hospitals and schools? Is that the reason why these services are in trouble? Do they use more resources than the British? EU immigrants make up about 5% of English NHS staff and about 5% of the English population, according to the best available data. Across the UK, EU immigrants make up 10% of registered doctors and 4% of registered nurses. What do we receive in exchange for EU contributions? Nothing? Has it been a charitable act? The stock market has risen. Which firms? Do you understand the irony of the fact that it is companies with large holdings and sales in foreign countries that have benefited primarily because their foreign earnings converted to a weaker pound increased on paper having done nothing. UK centred companies have performed poorly. What's your theory? Exports are cheaper and the cost of imported materials and components has risen. What's the net outcome? The UK car market is unique in that the "sales" have a particularly high proportion of preregistered vehicles to maintain volume which are then sold at a discount by dealers. They are not even sold. They are financed and never owned so highly dependent on credit with interest rates tied to, now increasing, inflation. I won't mention this year's figures and projections because you'll just refuse to believe them. Think in the round. What's happening and why. At the very least acknowledge other indications." Hi. I acknowledge everyone's indications ..There is however no reason why anyone should be compelled to accept them .The Internet is far removed from the real world. It is simply a discussion forum. | |||
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" I would be interested to know who feels that they will materially benefit and in what way. * Abolition European human rights so criminals would not be able to use it as grounds to avoid deportation. * Lower energy costs . We have not have to adhere to the EU green policies * I will be able to buy the type or light bulbs that I want . * Border control so we will be safer. *. Withdrawn of CPD so I will be able to drive buses and lorries commercially * Reduced immigration will mean less strain on the infrastructure and NHS . * More money to spend by the government in the UK as we are net contributors to the EU and will save these costs . So many things you repeat have been addressed. If you would mind at least acknowledging this it would be helpful: European Court of Human Rights is NOT an EU body. The legal decisions made by them win remain enforce even if we leave until tested in a UK court and could be upheld. There is a reason for clean energy legislation for the future generations you claim to be worried about. What might that be? Light bulbs. Really? See above. Border control for safety. Because EU immigrants carry out more crimes than the British or other foreign immigrants? Would you care to check the figures? We course turn away those with criminal records now. We don't though do we? How many criminals have avoided deportation due to this? No idea what CPD is. Do please share. It sounds like you'd like to reduce the training required to drive a lorry or bus. Is that a good thing? Less immigration to reduce the "strain" on hospitals and schools? Is that the reason why these services are in trouble? Do they use more resources than the British? EU immigrants make up about 5% of English NHS staff and about 5% of the English population, according to the best available data. Across the UK, EU immigrants make up 10% of registered doctors and 4% of registered nurses. What do we receive in exchange for EU contributions? Nothing? Has it been a charitable act? The stock market has risen. Which firms? Do you understand the irony of the fact that it is companies with large holdings and sales in foreign countries that have benefited primarily because their foreign earnings converted to a weaker pound increased on paper having done nothing. UK centred companies have performed poorly. What's your theory? Exports are cheaper and the cost of imported materials and components has risen. What's the net outcome? The UK car market is unique in that the "sales" have a particularly high proportion of preregistered vehicles to maintain volume which are then sold at a discount by dealers. They are not even sold. They are financed and never owned so highly dependent on credit with interest rates tied to, now increasing, inflation. I won't mention this year's figures and projections because you'll just refuse to believe them. Think in the round. What's happening and why. At the very least acknowledge other indications." My theory is simple . The value of companies is based on future earnings potential , not what has happened historically . The impact of Brexit will already be factored into a companies valuation and it has not proved to be adverse . The various specialist stocks and shares publications to which I subscribe are not unduly concerned either . Why would they be . In.any event duties simply cancel out at a world level. | |||
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"Can someone explain to me the logic of building & installing wind turbines that in their very manufacture, transport, installation & maintenance will consume more resources than they will ever supply. So quite literally a big blot on the landscape for fuck all.. S S " Ah. So a coal or gas fired power station is prettier. Fair enough. Got to love a cooling tower. Even better if you have to pay to feed it. | |||
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"Leaving the EU will not effect you going on holiday in any way and I am baffled as to where this idea comes from. I will be retired by the time we leave an hope to travel a bit on hols and do not expect any problems exept the joy of showing my British passport. I am worried that there will be some high inflation for a couple of years but it will settle down in time as we begin to prosper. If you have children they will grow up in a more successful happier Britain,this will not happen at first but in the long run all will be good. Have you not noticed that with the drop in the value of the pound, trips abroad are now 15-20% more expensive?? There's only one way the pound's going and that's down the pan. So, your assertion that travel will not be affected is total rubbish. This year I shall have to have one holiday less than usual because of the pound's drop from $1.49 to $1.22.....thanks a bunch you brexiteers. Just for you, here is the average amount of euros your pound could have bought over the last decade. 31 Dec 2008 1.259467 31 Dec 2009 1.12246 31 Dec 2010 1.165737 31 Dec 2011 1.15258 31 Dec 2012 1.233263 31 Dec 2013 1.177964 31 Dec 2014 1.240494 31 Dec 2015 1.377982 31 Dec 2016 1.224833 10 Mar 2017 1.165218 The average over the last decade has been about €1.21 to the pound. So in other words you got one extra holiday last year." | |||
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"Can someone explain to me the logic of building & installing wind turbines that in their very manufacture, transport, installation & maintenance will consume more resources than they will ever supply. So quite literally a big blot on the landscape for fuck all.. S S " The Dutch trains runs itself with renewable energy. Cheap tickets For 300 euros a month I could travel the whole country unlimited. Pretty good return on investment. | |||
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" I would be interested to know who feels that they will materially benefit and in what way. * Abolition European human rights so criminals would not be able to use it as grounds to avoid deportation. * Lower energy costs . We have not have to adhere to the EU green policies * I will be able to buy the type or light bulbs that I want . * Border control so we will be safer. *. Withdrawn of CPD so I will be able to drive buses and lorries commercially * Reduced immigration will mean less strain on the infrastructure and NHS . * More money to spend by the government in the UK as we are net contributors to the EU and will save these costs . So many things you repeat have been addressed. If you would mind at least acknowledging this it would be helpful: European Court of Human Rights is NOT an EU body. The legal decisions made by them win remain enforce even if we leave until tested in a UK court and could be upheld. There is a reason for clean energy legislation for the future generations you claim to be worried about. What might that be? Light bulbs. Really? See above. Border control for safety. Because EU immigrants carry out more crimes than the British or other foreign immigrants? Would you care to check the figures? We course turn away those with criminal records now. We don't though do we? How many criminals have avoided deportation due to this? No idea what CPD is. Do please share. It sounds like you'd like to reduce the training required to drive a lorry or bus. Is that a good thing? Less immigration to reduce the "strain" on hospitals and schools? Is that the reason why these services are in trouble? Do they use more resources than the British? EU immigrants make up about 5% of English NHS staff and about 5% of the English population, according to the best available data. Across the UK, EU immigrants make up 10% of registered doctors and 4% of registered nurses. What do we receive in exchange for EU contributions? Nothing? Has it been a charitable act? The stock market has risen. Which firms? Do you understand the irony of the fact that it is companies with large holdings and sales in foreign countries that have benefited primarily because their foreign earnings converted to a weaker pound increased on paper having done nothing. UK centred companies have performed poorly. What's your theory? Exports are cheaper and the cost of imported materials and components has risen. What's the net outcome? The UK car market is unique in that the "sales" have a particularly high proportion of preregistered vehicles to maintain volume which are then sold at a discount by dealers. They are not even sold. They are financed and never owned so highly dependent on credit with interest rates tied to, now increasing, inflation. I won't mention this year's figures and projections because you'll just refuse to believe them. Think in the round. What's happening and why. At the very least acknowledge other indications. My theory is simple . The value of companies is based on future earnings potential , not what has happened historically . The impact of Brexit will already be factored into a companies valuation and it has not proved to be adverse . The various specialist stocks and shares publications to which I subscribe are not unduly concerned either . Why would they be . In.any event duties simply cancel out at a world level. " Having international enterprise companies as customers or able to globalise also increases the valuation, right? | |||
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" I would be interested to know who feels that they will materially benefit and in what way. * Abolition European human rights so criminals would not be able to use it as grounds to avoid deportation. * Lower energy costs . We have not have to adhere to the EU green policies * I will be able to buy the type or light bulbs that I want . * Border control so we will be safer. *. Withdrawn of CPD so I will be able to drive buses and lorries commercially * Reduced immigration will mean less strain on the infrastructure and NHS . * More money to spend by the government in the UK as we are net contributors to the EU and will save these costs . So many things you repeat have been addressed. If you would mind at least acknowledging this it would be helpful: European Court of Human Rights is NOT an EU body. The legal decisions made by them win remain enforce even if we leave until tested in a UK court and could be upheld. There is a reason for clean energy legislation for the future generations you claim to be worried about. What might that be? Light bulbs. Really? See above. Border control for safety. Because EU immigrants carry out more crimes than the British or other foreign immigrants? Would you care to check the figures? We course turn away those with criminal records now. We don't though do we? How many criminals have avoided deportation due to this? No idea what CPD is. Do please share. It sounds like you'd like to reduce the training required to drive a lorry or bus. Is that a good thing? Less immigration to reduce the "strain" on hospitals and schools? Is that the reason why these services are in trouble? Do they use more resources than the British? EU immigrants make up about 5% of English NHS staff and about 5% of the English population, according to the best available data. Across the UK, EU immigrants make up 10% of registered doctors and 4% of registered nurses. What do we receive in exchange for EU contributions? Nothing? Has it been a charitable act? The stock market has risen. Which firms? Do you understand the irony of the fact that it is companies with large holdings and sales in foreign countries that have benefited primarily because their foreign earnings converted to a weaker pound increased on paper having done nothing. UK centred companies have performed poorly. What's your theory? Exports are cheaper and the cost of imported materials and components has risen. What's the net outcome? The UK car market is unique in that the "sales" have a particularly high proportion of preregistered vehicles to maintain volume which are then sold at a discount by dealers. They are not even sold. They are financed and never owned so highly dependent on credit with interest rates tied to, now increasing, inflation. I won't mention this year's figures and projections because you'll just refuse to believe them. Think in the round. What's happening and why. At the very least acknowledge other indications. My theory is simple . The value of companies is based on future earnings potential , not what has happened historically . The impact of Brexit will already be factored into a companies valuation and it has not proved to be adverse . The various specialist stocks and shares publications to which I subscribe are not unduly concerned either . Why would they be . In.any event duties simply cancel out at a world level. " Go on then. I'll bite. Give me a quote from one of your publications explaining the macro fundamentals causing the short term shift in equity valuations. Have your share publications ever advised you to sell equities? | |||
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" I would be interested to know who feels that they will materially benefit and in what way. * Abolition European human rights so criminals would not be able to use it as grounds to avoid deportation. * Lower energy costs . We have not have to adhere to the EU green policies * I will be able to buy the type or light bulbs that I want . * Border control so we will be safer. *. Withdrawn of CPD so I will be able to drive buses and lorries commercially * Reduced immigration will mean less strain on the infrastructure and NHS . * More money to spend by the government in the UK as we are net contributors to the EU and will save these costs . So many things you repeat have been addressed. If you would mind at least acknowledging this it would be helpful: European Court of Human Rights is NOT an EU body. The legal decisions made by them win remain enforce even if we leave until tested in a UK court and could be upheld. There is a reason for clean energy legislation for the future generations you claim to be worried about. What might that be? Light bulbs. Really? See above. Border control for safety. Because EU immigrants carry out more crimes than the British or other foreign immigrants? Would you care to check the figures? We course turn away those with criminal records now. We don't though do we? How many criminals have avoided deportation due to this? No idea what CPD is. Do please share. It sounds like you'd like to reduce the training required to drive a lorry or bus. Is that a good thing? Less immigration to reduce the "strain" on hospitals and schools? Is that the reason why these services are in trouble? Do they use more resources than the British? EU immigrants make up about 5% of English NHS staff and about 5% of the English population, according to the best available data. Across the UK, EU immigrants make up 10% of registered doctors and 4% of registered nurses. What do we receive in exchange for EU contributions? Nothing? Has it been a charitable act? The stock market has risen. Which firms? Do you understand the irony of the fact that it is companies with large holdings and sales in foreign countries that have benefited primarily because their foreign earnings converted to a weaker pound increased on paper having done nothing. UK centred companies have performed poorly. What's your theory? Exports are cheaper and the cost of imported materials and components has risen. What's the net outcome? The UK car market is unique in that the "sales" have a particularly high proportion of preregistered vehicles to maintain volume which are then sold at a discount by dealers. They are not even sold. They are financed and never owned so highly dependent on credit with interest rates tied to, now increasing, inflation. I won't mention this year's figures and projections because you'll just refuse to believe them. Think in the round. What's happening and why. At the very least acknowledge other indications. My theory is simple . The value of companies is based on future earnings potential , not what has happened historically . The impact of Brexit will already be factored into a companies valuation and it has not proved to be adverse . The various specialist stocks and shares publications to which I subscribe are not unduly concerned either . Why would they be . In.any event duties simply cancel out at a world level. Go on then. I'll bite. Give me a quote from one of your publications explaining the macro fundamentals causing the short term shift in equity valuations. Have your share publications ever advised you to sell equities? "I prefer to take a long term view over a period of at least twenty years . That balances out any fluctuations . I am sure you can Google to the answer to your question as I am out to do the garden now. | |||
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"The voice of socialism "the droning whine of alt-reich falangism | |||
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" yes and I'm hoping to stop it. Can't you see that its on the rise because of the EU?" oh .... the irony .... you ARE the extreme right | |||
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"Leaving the EU will not effect you going on holiday in any way and I am baffled as to where this idea comes from. I will be retired by the time we leave an hope to travel a bit on hols and do not expect any problems exept the joy of showing my British passport. I am worried that there will be some high inflation for a couple of years but it will settle down in time as we begin to prosper. If you have children they will grow up in a more successful happier Britain,this will not happen at first but in the long run all will be good. How though?? Where is the reasoning behind your assertion? Do you know what the European open skies policy is? Do you know why Ryanair, EasyJet and others were so opposed to the UK leaving the EU? The EU has always been much more about the quality of life of its citizens than any national government that I can remember. Anti pollution measures have brought us cleaner beaches and a cleaner environment. European workers legislation has brought us fairer pay between men and women, reduced working hours and better working conditions. What exactly do you think is going to happen to make the UK a happier and more successful place?" Luckily Easyjet and Ryanair believe in solutions to problems , not creating them. Their businness carries on regardless of whether we are in or out of Brexit . I do not see many commentators putting a sell on airline shares . People will fly regardless. | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my son" Same here, but for my children Unfortunately too many can't comprehend the selfless acts parents like us make so in their ignorance throw insults as they do not have the intellect to do anything else. | |||
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" Go on then. I'll bite. Give me a quote from one of your publications explaining the macro fundamentals causing the short term shift in equity valuations. Have your share publications ever advised you to sell equities? I prefer to take a long term view over a period of at least twenty years . That balances out any fluctuations . I am sure you can Google to the answer to your question as I am out to do the garden now."So I will have to assume that your specialist publications do not back your view. Your view also clearly specifies that short term share movements are irrelevant over a 20 year horizon so you have no point to make. If you think that this bill market will keep running then again, I'd be interested to know what will continue to drive this once the QE cash dries up and interest rates start to rise? Is there something driving the rise in equities other than cash looking for a home. There is, I believe, no such thing as a free lunch... | |||
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"The voice of socialism
the droning whine of alt-reich falangism"Why do you presume anyone who doesn't agree with you is a facist or racist? All you want to do is try to supress them and stop them from expressing their view with abusive and agressive behaviour. You hate and condemn anyone you perceive to be different to you. In other words; you sir are a facist. | |||
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"Luckily Easyjet and Ryanair believe in solutions to problems , not creating them. Their businness carries on regardless of whether we are in or out of Brexit . I do not see many commentators putting a sell on airline shares . People will fly regardless. " Read the headlines if you don't want to read the full story. Cognitive dissonance is an interesting thing... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-easyjet-105-million-value-drop-budget-airline-pound-sterling-slump-drop-a7542726.html%3famp http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/ryanair-cancel-domestic-flights-brexit-edinburgh-glasgow-stansted-belfast-gatwick-a7564976.html https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-ryanair-boss-warns-uk-aviation-industry-will-fall-off-a-cliff-it-loses-access-to-eu-open-a7543966.html%3famp https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/28/british-airways-parent-iag-cuts-profit-outlook-in-tough-environm/amp/ | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my son Same here, but for my children Unfortunately too many can't comprehend the selfless acts parents like us make so in their ignorance throw insults as they do not have the intellect to do anything else."But still no meaningful or even hopeful ideas as to how your children might be materially better off outside of the EU? The one thing you absolutely have done is to clip their wings and restrict their ability to live, study and work in another EU country. Also, considering that the EU and not any national government for decades has provided the bulk of funding for high level scientific research at top UK universities it could also be said that Should they go to University in the UK, the quality of that study could well be detrimentally affected. | |||
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"The voice of socialism
the droning whine of alt-reich falangism
Why do you presume anyone who doesn't agree with you is a facist or racist? All you want to do is try to supress them and stop them from expressing their view with abusive and agressive behaviour. You hate and condemn anyone you perceive to be different to you. In other words; you sir are a facist."I don't disagree with that. This aggressive approach is not helpful from any side of the discussion. However, I'm interested to know what you believe will be materially, or even fundamentally better for your children. Most of the younger generation who weren't too busy shagging and being hungover want to remain it seems. | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my son Same here, but for my children Unfortunately too many can't comprehend the selfless acts parents like us make so in their ignorance throw insults as they do not have the intellect to do anything else.
But still no meaningful or even hopeful ideas as to how your children might be materially better off outside of the EU? The one thing you absolutely have done is to clip their wings and restrict their ability to live, study and work in another EU country. Also, considering that the EU and not any national government for decades has provided the bulk of funding for high level scientific research at top UK universities it could also be said that Should they go to University in the UK, the quality of that study could well be detrimentally affected."Depends on your interpretation of material. Unlike me you are obviously a capitalist only worried about yourself and your wealth. I see a far bigger picture where quality of life is od paramount importance. My children will be able to travel and study anywhere they want in the world so I do not understand your point on that issue. But why would they want to study abroad when this country will offer the best education in the world. | |||
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"The voice of socialism
the droning whine of alt-reich falangism
Why do you presume anyone who doesn't agree with you is a facist or racist? All you want to do is try to supress them and stop them from expressing their view with abusive and agressive behaviour. You hate and condemn anyone you perceive to be different to you. In other words; you sir are a facist."where did i say fascist or racist? | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my son Same here, but for my children Unfortunately too many can't comprehend the selfless acts parents like us make so in their ignorance throw insults as they do not have the intellect to do anything else.
But still no meaningful or even hopeful ideas as to how your children might be materially better off outside of the EU? The one thing you absolutely have done is to clip their wings and restrict their ability to live, study and work in another EU country. Also, considering that the EU and not any national government for decades has provided the bulk of funding for high level scientific research at top UK universities it could also be said that Should they go to University in the UK, the quality of that study could well be detrimentally affected.
Depends on your interpretation of material. Unlike me you are obviously a capitalist only worried about yourself and your wealth. I see a far bigger picture where quality of life is od paramount importance. My children will be able to travel and study anywhere they want in the world so I do not understand your point on that issue. But why would they want to study abroad when this country will offer the best education in the world."So how will their quality of life improve? Was it any UK national governments that enforced environmental and pollution controls or was it the EU? How do you see their quality of life improving in any meaningful way? | |||
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" Depends on your interpretation of material. Unlike me you are obviously a capitalist only worried about yourself and your wealth. I see a far bigger picture where quality of life is od paramount importance. My children will be able to travel and study anywhere they want in the world so I do not understand your point on that issue. But why would they want to study abroad when this country will offer the best education in the world." Those are assertions. What do you base that on? Anyone can study anywhere they wish to now if they pay and get the appropriate visas. It is significantly easier within the EU. How does this advantage being curtailed constitute an improved opportunity? How will quality of life be improved? What will be better? What factors upon leaving the EU will improve educational provision relative to today? We know that joint funding of research Will fall and that UK institutions are already being excluded from longer term projects and student and researcher numbers to the UK are falling. You can, of course, hold a view but as this is a discussion forum it's educational for all of us if you could lay out your reasoning even if you don't wish to accept alternative viewpoints. | |||
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" Hi. I acknowledge everyone's indications ..There is however no reason why anyone should be compelled to accept them .The Internet is far removed from the real world. It is simply a discussion forum. " Come on, you ignore any information that doesnt back up your position. Its been explained to you repeatedly that the gains in the stock market are way below the drop in the value of the pound. But you continually ignore this fact and repeat it ad nauseum in various threads until someone else comes along to explain it to you again. Stock price changes are largely affected by day traders who by their nature are making extremely short term decisions. But again you know this but still choose to ramble about how its about a 20 year view. If you dont want to listen to the logic here, and you very clearly dont, why are you ignoring the people who run bentley, the airline companies and the massive financial companies who are predicting Brexit will seriously harm their companies or that their planning on moving jobs to the EU? Because 1 random guy in Northern Ireland says his business will be fine?? Youre the poster child for only hearing what you want to hear and ignoring anything that contradicts your point of view. | |||
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" Hi. I acknowledge everyone's indications ..There is however no reason why anyone should be compelled to accept them .The Internet is far removed from the real world. It is simply a discussion forum. Come on, you ignore any information that doesnt back up your position. Its been explained to you repeatedly that the gains in the stock market are way below the drop in the value of the pound. But you continually ignore this fact and repeat it ad nauseum in various threads until someone else comes along to explain it to you again. Stock price changes are largely affected by day traders who by their nature are making extremely short term decisions. But again you know this but still choose to ramble about how its about a 20 year view. If you dont want to listen to the logic here, and you very clearly dont, why are you ignoring the people who run bentley, the airline companies and the massive financial companies who are predicting Brexit will seriously harm their companies or that their planning on moving jobs to the EU? Because 1 random guy in Northern Ireland says his business will be fine?? Youre the poster child for only hearing what you want to hear and ignoring anything that contradicts your point of view." An interesting opinion. I am unaware of any companies that think Brexit will seriously damage them. A few tweaks to duty are unlikely to make any material difference . Life goes on and people still need to buy our goods . Not everyone is a merchant of doom and gloom and in any event I would not make decisions based on the comments from a few individual companies . Like it or not the stock market is at an all time high and does not seem to be concerned with the gloomy scenario which you or others predict . The strong Financial performance of the UK since Brexit appears to annoy some posters on here . Not | |||
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" Hi. I acknowledge everyone's indications ..There is however no reason why anyone should be compelled to accept them .The Internet is far removed from the real world. It is simply a discussion forum. Come on, you ignore any information that doesnt back up your position. Its been explained to you repeatedly that the gains in the stock market are way below the drop in the value of the pound. But you continually ignore this fact and repeat it ad nauseum in various threads until someone else comes along to explain it to you again. Stock price changes are largely affected by day traders who by their nature are making extremely short term decisions. But again you know this but still choose to ramble about how its about a 20 year view. If you dont want to listen to the logic here, and you very clearly dont, why are you ignoring the people who run bentley, the airline companies and the massive financial companies who are predicting Brexit will seriously harm their companies or that their planning on moving jobs to the EU? Because 1 random guy in Northern Ireland says his business will be fine?? Youre the poster child for only hearing what you want to hear and ignoring anything that contradicts your point of view. An interesting opinion. I am unaware of any companies that think Brexit will seriously damage them. A few tweaks to duty are unlikely to make any material difference . Life goes on and people still need to buy our goods . Not everyone is a merchant of doom and gloom and in any event I would not make decisions based on the comments from a few individual companies . Like it or not the stock market is at an all time high and does not seem to be concerned with the gloomy scenario which you or others predict . The strong Financial performance of the UK since Brexit appears to annoy some posters on here . Not " EasyUK posted several stories above your last post from the airline industry. Youve been in plenty of threads discussing the financial companies comments on leaving and Bentley came out just this week to say that theyd rather move their production out of the UK than deal with tarriffs for the EU market. So are you unaware or are you choosing to be unaware? A potential 50% increase in cost is not a small tweak to tarriffs. The financial industry will be liable for tens of millions even if its just a small increase. And what goods does the UK produce do we NEED to buy from you? Beef? Got plenty of that ourselves. Cars? We make them too. Wine maybe? Think the French have you beat there. And, yet again, the raw numbers show an increase in the stock market but the actual value HAS DECREASED BECAUSE OF THE DEVALUATION OF THE POUND. Is there some particular way to explain this to you so that you can understand it? Ive tried to keep it simple for you but you dont seem capable of making the link. Your opinions can only be justified when you talk vaguely about them. Once you look into it with any detail at all your arguments fall apart. Stock market - currency devaluation Tarriff tweaks - up to 50% increase Everything will be fine - thousands of jobs lost | |||
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" Hi. I acknowledge everyone's indications ..There is however no reason why anyone should be compelled to accept them .The Internet is far removed from the real world. It is simply a discussion forum. Come on, you ignore any information that doesnt back up your position. Its been explained to you repeatedly that the gains in the stock market are way below the drop in the value of the pound. But you continually ignore this fact and repeat it ad nauseum in various threads until someone else comes along to explain it to you again. Stock price changes are largely affected by day traders who by their nature are making extremely short term decisions. But again you know this but still choose to ramble about how its about a 20 year view. If you dont want to listen to the logic here, and you very clearly dont, why are you ignoring the people who run bentley, the airline companies and the massive financial companies who are predicting Brexit will seriously harm their companies or that their planning on moving jobs to the EU? Because 1 random guy in Northern Ireland says his business will be fine?? Youre the poster child for only hearing what you want to hear and ignoring anything that contradicts your point of view. An interesting opinion. I am unaware of any companies that think Brexit will seriously damage them. A few tweaks to duty are unlikely to make any material difference . Life goes on and people still need to buy our goods . Not everyone is a merchant of doom and gloom and in any event I would not make decisions based on the comments from a few individual companies . Like it or not the stock market is at an all time high and does not seem to be concerned with the gloomy scenario which you or others predict . The strong Financial performance of the UK since Brexit appears to annoy some posters on here . Not " I can tell you categorically that both Jaguar Land Rover and Airbus see no upside to Brexit. Hard Brexit gives serious concerns. Just to start you off. I take it you didn't read the Easyjet, Ryanair and IAG articles that I posted then? I am delighted with the stock market performance. Who has said otherwise? The point is the reasons behind it don't seem to squawking anything that you say yet you ignore the reasons that even your secret publications tell you | |||
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" Depends on your interpretation of material. Unlike me you are obviously a capitalist only worried about yourself and your wealth. I see a far bigger picture where quality of life is od paramount importance. My children will be able to travel and study anywhere they want in the world so I do not understand your point on that issue. But why would they want to study abroad when this country will offer the best education in the world. Those are assertions. What do you base that on? Anyone can study anywhere they wish to now if they pay and get the appropriate visas. It is significantly easier within the EU. How does this advantage being curtailed constitute an improved opportunity? How will quality of life be improved? What will be better? What factors upon leaving the EU will improve educational provision relative to today? We know that joint funding of research Will fall and that UK institutions are already being excluded from longer term projects and student and researcher numbers to the UK are falling. You can, of course, hold a view but as this is a discussion forum it's educational for all of us if you could lay out your reasoning even if you don't wish to accept alternative viewpoints." No, they are my opinion based on where I and millions of others see the EU going over the coming years and decades. There is no evidence to back it up just as there is no evidence to the contrary. | |||
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"The voice of socialism
the droning whine of alt-reich falangism
Why do you presume anyone who doesn't agree with you is a facist or racist? All you want to do is try to supress them and stop them from expressing their view with abusive and agressive behaviour. You hate and condemn anyone you perceive to be different to you. In other words; you sir are a facist.
where did i say fascist or racist? "I suggest you learn the meaning of what you post  | |||
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" Hi. I acknowledge everyone's indications ..There is however no reason why anyone should be compelled to accept them .The Internet is far removed from the real world. It is simply a discussion forum. Come on, you ignore any information that doesnt back up your position. Its been explained to you repeatedly that the gains in the stock market are way below the drop in the value of the pound. But you continually ignore this fact and repeat it ad nauseum in various threads until someone else comes along to explain it to you again. Stock price changes are largely affected by day traders who by their nature are making extremely short term decisions. But again you know this but still choose to ramble about how its about a 20 year view. If you dont want to listen to the logic here, and you very clearly dont, why are you ignoring the people who run bentley, the airline companies and the massive financial companies who are predicting Brexit will seriously harm their companies or that their planning on moving jobs to the EU? Because 1 random guy in Northern Ireland says his business will be fine?? Youre the poster child for only hearing what you want to hear and ignoring anything that contradicts your point of view. An interesting opinion. I am unaware of any companies that think Brexit will seriously damage them. A few tweaks to duty are unlikely to make any material difference . Life goes on and people still need to buy our goods . Not everyone is a merchant of doom and gloom and in any event I would not make decisions based on the comments from a few individual companies . Like it or not the stock market is at an all time high and does not seem to be concerned with the gloomy scenario which you or others predict . The strong Financial performance of the UK since Brexit appears to annoy some posters on here . Not EasyUK posted several stories above your last post from the airline industry. Youve been in plenty of threads discussing the financial companies comments on leaving and Bentley came out just this week to say that theyd rather move their production out of the UK than deal with tarriffs for the EU market. So are you unaware or are you choosing to be unaware? A potential 50% increase in cost is not a small tweak to tarriffs. The financial industry will be liable for tens of millions even if its just a small increase. And what goods does the UK produce do we NEED to buy from you? Beef? Got plenty of that ourselves. Cars? We make them too. Wine maybe? Think the French have you beat there. And, yet again, the raw numbers show an increase in the stock market but the actual value HAS DECREASED BECAUSE OF THE DEVALUATION OF THE POUND. Is there some particular way to explain this to you so that you can understand it? Ive tried to keep it simple for you but you dont seem capable of making the link. Your opinions can only be justified when you talk vaguely about them. Once you look into it with any detail at all your arguments fall apart. Stock market - currency devaluation Tarriff tweaks - up to 50% increase Everything will be fine - thousands of jobs lost " There is probably no need to explain the impact of currency movements. I have worked in shipping and we used up to 30 different currencies . I use the valuation of companies based on future profits , not what has happened historically. I am not quite certain why you feel the need to explain. I am confident that you will never agree with my views and I do not accept yours as being valid so a bit of a pointless exercise . This applies to most posters , not just you personally . I do not see many people changing their view as a result of anyone posting on here. | |||
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" Depends on your interpretation of material. Unlike me you are obviously a capitalist only worried about yourself and your wealth. I see a far bigger picture where quality of life is od paramount importance. My children will be able to travel and study anywhere they want in the world so I do not understand your point on that issue. But why would they want to study abroad when this country will offer the best education in the world. Those are assertions. What do you base that on? Anyone can study anywhere they wish to now if they pay and get the appropriate visas. It is significantly easier within the EU. How does this advantage being curtailed constitute an improved opportunity? How will quality of life be improved? What will be better? What factors upon leaving the EU will improve educational provision relative to today? We know that joint funding of research Will fall and that UK institutions are already being excluded from longer term projects and student and researcher numbers to the UK are falling. You can, of course, hold a view but as this is a discussion forum it's educational for all of us if you could lay out your reasoning even if you don't wish to accept alternative viewpoints. No, they are my opinion based on where I and millions of others see the EU going over the coming years and decades. There is no evidence to back it up just as there is no evidence to the contrary." The evidence to the contrary is all around you and realisable in the life that you lead. Open skies Working hours directive Freedom of movement Reduced roaming charges Pollution controls giving us cleaner beaches and rivers Barrier and tariff free trade as well as homogenised safety standards for all products wherever they are sold in the EU That is evidence because it is what has happened directly as a result of our membership to the EU. Now, what can you see as a material improvement to your life through leaving? Presumably your motivation to leave was because you had thought about and figured out how your life would be improved? So how do you see that improvement? | |||
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" Hi. I acknowledge everyone's indications ..There is however no reason why anyone should be compelled to accept them .The Internet is far removed from the real world. It is simply a discussion forum. Come on, you ignore any information that doesnt back up your position. Its been explained to you repeatedly that the gains in the stock market are way below the drop in the value of the pound. But you continually ignore this fact and repeat it ad nauseum in various threads until someone else comes along to explain it to you again. Stock price changes are largely affected by day traders who by their nature are making extremely short term decisions. But again you know this but still choose to ramble about how its about a 20 year view. If you dont want to listen to the logic here, and you very clearly dont, why are you ignoring the people who run bentley, the airline companies and the massive financial companies who are predicting Brexit will seriously harm their companies or that their planning on moving jobs to the EU? Because 1 random guy in Northern Ireland says his business will be fine?? Youre the poster child for only hearing what you want to hear and ignoring anything that contradicts your point of view. An interesting opinion. I am unaware of any companies that think Brexit will seriously damage them. A few tweaks to duty are unlikely to make any material difference . Life goes on and people still need to buy our goods . Not everyone is a merchant of doom and gloom and in any event I would not make decisions based on the comments from a few individual companies . Like it or not the stock market is at an all time high and does not seem to be concerned with the gloomy scenario which you or others predict . The strong Financial performance of the UK since Brexit appears to annoy some posters on here . Not I can tell you categorically that both Jaguar Land Rover and Airbus see no upside to Brexit. Hard Brexit gives serious concerns. Just to start you off. I take it you didn't read the Easyjet, Ryanair and IAG articles that I posted then? I am delighted with the stock market performance. Who has said otherwise? The point is the reasons behind it don't seem to squawking anything that you say yet you ignore the reasons that even your secret publications tell you "  Hi. Thank you for taking the time to post the links . I do not have any issue with accepting that you are intellectually superior to me.
However that does not mean that I have to accept anyone else's opinion as being valid or for that matter accept it .
Most posters on these forums repeat the same opinions time and time again and I do not believe many posters change their opinions as a result of posts on here.
I never read any links as I can see no point in doing so. These links will just be cherry picked to prove a posters point so it does not really assist.
It could of course be argued that posting links is lazy as the poster making it cannot be bothered summarising the article themselves . I think posting of links should be prohibited . I have seen a few posters simply post a link and a few words .
Thanks for you advice and in summary I am not disputing anything which you have said . However I am not compelled to agree with any posters opinion .
Your posts are always well presented and you do not result to the use of derogatory language or terms which is always a good sign.
It could of course be argued that the use of derogatory language or sarcastic comments is good because it means that the poster probably has an invalid argument. | |||
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" There is probably no need to explain the impact of currency movements. I have worked in shipping and we used up to 30 different currencies . I use the valuation of companies based on future profits , not what has happened historically. I am not quite certain why you feel the need to explain. I am confident that you will never agree with my views and I do not accept yours as being valid so a bit of a pointless exercise . This applies to most posters , not just you personally . I do not see many people changing their view as a result of anyone posting on here. " I think it is necessary to explain that when the value of sterling goes down the numbers on the stock market go up. Let me give you an example and Ill keep the numbers simple. Say £1 = $1. US and other investors value fabswingers at $100,000. As Fab is a UK company that means its worth £100,000 on the stock market. Then the value of sterling goes down by 20%. But Fab is still valued at $100,000. So on the stock market its valued at £120,000 even though the real value ($100,000) hasnt changed at all. Next you have to recognise that the increases in the stock market arent keeping up with the devaluation. So the value on the stock market for fab is £110,000, so even though the number went up, the actual value of the company wemt down because its now worth less than $100,000. Now theres really no arguing this point because its basic maths. So you have the choice here of 1) ignoring the facts because the facts dont support your view. But that basically means you have to accept that Brexit has damaged the economy. Or 2) accepting that math doesnt care about my opinions or yours and that this is the way things are. | |||
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" I can tell you categorically that both Jaguar Land Rover and Airbus see no upside to Brexit. Hard Brexit gives serious concerns. Just to start you off. I take it you didn't read the Easyjet, Ryanair and IAG articles that I posted then? I am delighted with the stock market performance. Who has said otherwise? The point is the reasons behind it don't seem to squawking anything that you say yet you ignore the reasons that even your secret publications tell you Hi. Thank you for taking the time to post the links . I do not have any issue with accepting that you are intellectually superior to me.
However that does not mean that I have to accept anyone else's opinion as being valid or for that matter accept it .
Most posters on these forums repeat the same opinions time and time again and I do not believe many posters change their opinions as a result of posts on here.
I never read any links as I can see no point in doing so. These links will just be cherry picked to prove a posters point so it does not really assist.
It could of course be argued that posting links is lazy as the poster making it cannot be bothered summarising the article themselves . I think posting of links should be prohibited . I have seen a few posters simply post a link and a few words .
Thanks for you advice and in summary I am not disputing anything which you have said . However I am not compelled to agree with any posters opinion .
Your posts are always well presented and you do not result to the use of derogatory language or terms which is always a good sign.
It could of course be argued that the use of derogatory language or sarcastic comments is good because it means that the poster probably has an invalid argument. "My autospell does not always make my posts fully intelligible it seems
I agree completely in uncivil language and rudeness are unhelpful, full stop.
No, I don't necessarily expect anyone to change their minds, but some acknowledgement of multiple possibilities indicates a more rounded view.
Certainty always concerns me 
I post links because it's better if someone reads all of the information and draws their own without my opinion which is usually clear
I guess the frustration with your posts is that you quote "specialist publications" but then don't actually quote them, which makes them unverifiable.
Is that a fair comment? | |||
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" There is probably no need to explain the impact of currency movements. I have worked in shipping and we used up to 30 different currencies . I use the valuation of companies based on future profits , not what has happened historically. I am not quite certain why you feel the need to explain. I am confident that you will never agree with my views and I do not accept yours as being valid so a bit of a pointless exercise . This applies to most posters , not just you personally . I do not see many people changing their view as a result of anyone posting on here. I think it is necessary to explain that when the value of sterling goes down the numbers on the stock market go up. Let me give you an example and Ill keep the numbers simple. Say £1 = $1. US and other investors value fabswingers at $100,000. As Fab is a UK company that means its worth £100,000 on the stock market. Then the value of sterling goes down by 20%. But Fab is still valued at $100,000. So on the stock market its valued at £120,000 even though the real value ($100,000) hasnt changed at all. Next you have to recognise that the increases in the stock market arent keeping up with the devaluation. So the value on the stock market for fab is £110,000, so even though the number went up, the actual value of the company wemt down because its now worth less than $100,000. Now theres really no arguing this point because its basic maths. So you have the choice here of 1) ignoring the facts because the facts dont support your view. But that basically means you have to accept that Brexit has damaged the economy. Or 2) accepting that math doesnt care about my opinions or yours and that this is the way things are." Hello. This is the second time that you have done a worked example of currency movements on these forums . I am at a slight loss to understand why you have done so. Most people would value companies based on future earnings potential , not what has happened historically . The information in various specialist publications is more than adequate for my purposes and I am unlikely to replace their information with than obtained on an Internet discussion forum. Strangely most fab members taking a negative view of the strong Financial performance in the UK have a particular stance on Brexit and do not welcome good news. | |||
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" There is probably no need to explain the impact of currency movements. I have worked in shipping and we used up to 30 different currencies . I use the valuation of companies based on future profits , not what has happened historically. I am not quite certain why you feel the need to explain. I am confident that you will never agree with my views and I do not accept yours as being valid so a bit of a pointless exercise . This applies to most posters , not just you personally . I do not see many people changing their view as a result of anyone posting on here. I think it is necessary to explain that when the value of sterling goes down the numbers on the stock market go up. Let me give you an example and Ill keep the numbers simple. Say £1 = $1. US and other investors value fabswingers at $100,000. As Fab is a UK company that means its worth £100,000 on the stock market. Then the value of sterling goes down by 20%. But Fab is still valued at $100,000. So on the stock market its valued at £120,000 even though the real value ($100,000) hasnt changed at all. Next you have to recognise that the increases in the stock market arent keeping up with the devaluation. So the value on the stock market for fab is £110,000, so even though the number went up, the actual value of the company wemt down because its now worth less than $100,000. Now theres really no arguing this point because its basic maths. So you have the choice here of 1) ignoring the facts because the facts dont support your view. But that basically means you have to accept that Brexit has damaged the economy. Or 2) accepting that math doesnt care about my opinions or yours and that this is the way things are. Hello. This is the second time that you have done a worked example of currency movements on these forums . I am at a slight loss to understand why you have done so. Most people would value companies based on future earnings potential , not what has happened historically . The information in various specialist publications is more than adequate for my purposes and I am unlikely to replace their information with than obtained on an Internet discussion forum. Strangely most fab members taking a negative view of the strong Financial performance in the UK have a particular stance on Brexit and do not welcome good news. " Ive given you a worked example because I thought it would be more productive than banging my head against the wall. This was a greivous error on my part. You keep parrotting the same line about the stock market being at an all time high. If you took a moment to look at the explanation above you would realise that the FTSE is valued at less than it was a year ago. Youre just not bright enough to see past the raw numbers and make the connection that if your shares went up 5% in value and the pound decreased 10% then you lost money. You only see a 5% increase and have no ability to make the connection that currency has fluctuating value. At this point Id say you were just trolling us because my faith in the future of the human race would be shaken to think that a grown adult cant understand this when its been explained so simply and numerous times. But the sad reality is that youre just not able to get it despite the fact this is math Id expect a 10 year old to breeze through. So you can keep claiming that the markets at an all time high even though its worth less than a year ago. Ignorance is bliss after all and your ecstatic with Brexit. | |||
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" Depends on your interpretation of material. Unlike me you are obviously a capitalist only worried about yourself and your wealth. I see a far bigger picture where quality of life is od paramount importance. My children will be able to travel and study anywhere they want in the world so I do not understand your point on that issue. But why would they want to study abroad when this country will offer the best education in the world. Those are assertions. What do you base that on? Anyone can study anywhere they wish to now if they pay and get the appropriate visas. It is significantly easier within the EU. How does this advantage being curtailed constitute an improved opportunity? How will quality of life be improved? What will be better? What factors upon leaving the EU will improve educational provision relative to today? We know that joint funding of research Will fall and that UK institutions are already being excluded from longer term projects and student and researcher numbers to the UK are falling. You can, of course, hold a view but as this is a discussion forum it's educational for all of us if you could lay out your reasoning even if you don't wish to accept alternative viewpoints. No, they are my opinion based on where I and millions of others see the EU going over the coming years and decades. There is no evidence to back it up just as there is no evidence to the contrary. The evidence to the contrary is all around you and realisable in the life that you lead. Open skies Working hours directive Freedom of movement Reduced roaming charges Pollution controls giving us cleaner beaches and rivers Barrier and tariff free trade as well as homogenised safety standards for all products wherever they are sold in the EU That is evidence because it is what has happened directly as a result of our membership to the EU. Now, what can you see as a material improvement to your life through leaving? Presumably your motivation to leave was because you had thought about and figured out how your life would be improved? So how do you see that improvement?" I do believe sky has been open since time began, Laws on working hours are easily bypassed so mean nothing but they already existed before the eu, Freedom of movement will always be there for people wanting to work obtaining a visa isn't exactly a hardship, Reduced roaming charges, seriously? Fuck me isn't the eu great
Polution controls are a global thing and we we will continue with them regardless,
No such thing as a free trade deal. If it was free why do we pay the eu for it? Where I come from if you pay for something it isn't free.
My reasons for believing my children will have a better quality of life are personal to me and my children and quite bluntly, no one elses business. But I sure as hell don't believe the eu is this great organisation for the greater good you do. | |||
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" Depends on your interpretation of material. Unlike me you are obviously a capitalist only worried about yourself and your wealth. I see a far bigger picture where quality of life is od paramount importance. My children will be able to travel and study anywhere they want in the world so I do not understand your point on that issue. But why would they want to study abroad when this country will offer the best education in the world. Those are assertions. What do you base that on? Anyone can study anywhere they wish to now if they pay and get the appropriate visas. It is significantly easier within the EU. How does this advantage being curtailed constitute an improved opportunity? How will quality of life be improved? What will be better? What factors upon leaving the EU will improve educational provision relative to today? We know that joint funding of research Will fall and that UK institutions are already being excluded from longer term projects and student and researcher numbers to the UK are falling. You can, of course, hold a view but as this is a discussion forum it's educational for all of us if you could lay out your reasoning even if you don't wish to accept alternative viewpoints. No, they are my opinion based on where I and millions of others see the EU going over the coming years and decades. There is no evidence to back it up just as there is no evidence to the contrary. The evidence to the contrary is all around you and realisable in the life that you lead. Open skies Working hours directive Freedom of movement Reduced roaming charges Pollution controls giving us cleaner beaches and rivers Barrier and tariff free trade as well as homogenised safety standards for all products wherever they are sold in the EU That is evidence because it is what has happened directly as a result of our membership to the EU. Now, what can you see as a material improvement to your life through leaving? Presumably your motivation to leave was because you had thought about and figured out how your life would be improved? So how do you see that improvement? I do believe sky has been open since time began, Laws on working hours are easily bypassed so mean nothing but they already existed before the eu, Freedom of movement will always be there for people wanting to work obtaining a visa isn't exactly a hardship, Reduced roaming charges, seriously? Fuck me isn't the eu great
Polution controls are a global thing and we we will continue with them regardless,
No such thing as a free trade deal. If it was free why do we pay the eu for it? Where I come from if you pay for something it isn't free.
My reasons for believing my children will have a better quality of life are personal to me and my children and quite bluntly, no one elses business. But I sure as hell don't believe the eu is this great organisation for the greater good you do."believe me obtaining a visa is no easy thing only people who have never had to get one would say such thing | |||
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" Depends on your interpretation of material. Unlike me you are obviously a capitalist only worried about yourself and your wealth. I see a far bigger picture where quality of life is od paramount importance. My children will be able to travel and study anywhere they want in the world so I do not understand your point on that issue. But why would they want to study abroad when this country will offer the best education in the world. Those are assertions. What do you base that on? Anyone can study anywhere they wish to now if they pay and get the appropriate visas. It is significantly easier within the EU. How does this advantage being curtailed constitute an improved opportunity? How will quality of life be improved? What will be better? What factors upon leaving the EU will improve educational provision relative to today? We know that joint funding of research Will fall and that UK institutions are already being excluded from longer term projects and student and researcher numbers to the UK are falling. You can, of course, hold a view but as this is a discussion forum it's educational for all of us if you could lay out your reasoning even if you don't wish to accept alternative viewpoints. No, they are my opinion based on where I and millions of others see the EU going over the coming years and decades. There is no evidence to back it up just as there is no evidence to the contrary. The evidence to the contrary is all around you and realisable in the life that you lead. Open skies Working hours directive Freedom of movement Reduced roaming charges Pollution controls giving us cleaner beaches and rivers Barrier and tariff free trade as well as homogenised safety standards for all products wherever they are sold in the EU That is evidence because it is what has happened directly as a result of our membership to the EU. Now, what can you see as a material improvement to your life through leaving? Presumably your motivation to leave was because you had thought about and figured out how your life would be improved? So how do you see that improvement? I do believe sky has been open since time began, Laws on working hours are easily bypassed so mean nothing but they already existed before the eu, Freedom of movement will always be there for people wanting to work obtaining a visa isn't exactly a hardship, Reduced roaming charges, seriously? Fuck me isn't the eu great
Polution controls are a global thing and we we will continue with them regardless,
No such thing as a free trade deal. If it was free why do we pay the eu for it? Where I come from if you pay for something it isn't free.
My reasons for believing my children will have a better quality of life are personal to me and my children and quite bluntly, no one elses business. But I sure as hell don't believe the eu is this great organisation for the greater good you do. believe me obtaining a visa is no easy thing only people who have never had to get one would say such thing "I've had to get a visa before and it was simple. I have friends who emigrated to Australia and didn't have a problem either. So from my experiences it is pretty easy. But we all work and contribute to society | |||
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" Depends on your interpretation of material. Unlike me you are obviously a capitalist only worried about yourself and your wealth. I see a far bigger picture where quality of life is od paramount importance. My children will be able to travel and study anywhere they want in the world so I do not understand your point on that issue. But why would they want to study abroad when this country will offer the best education in the world. Those are assertions. What do you base that on? Anyone can study anywhere they wish to now if they pay and get the appropriate visas. It is significantly easier within the EU. How does this advantage being curtailed constitute an improved opportunity? How will quality of life be improved? What will be better? What factors upon leaving the EU will improve educational provision relative to today? We know that joint funding of research Will fall and that UK institutions are already being excluded from longer term projects and student and researcher numbers to the UK are falling. You can, of course, hold a view but as this is a discussion forum it's educational for all of us if you could lay out your reasoning even if you don't wish to accept alternative viewpoints. No, they are my opinion based on where I and millions of others see the EU going over the coming years and decades. There is no evidence to back it up just as there is no evidence to the contrary. The evidence to the contrary is all around you and realisable in the life that you lead. Open skies Working hours directive Freedom of movement Reduced roaming charges Pollution controls giving us cleaner beaches and rivers Barrier and tariff free trade as well as homogenised safety standards for all products wherever they are sold in the EU That is evidence because it is what has happened directly as a result of our membership to the EU. Now, what can you see as a material improvement to your life through leaving? Presumably your motivation to leave was because you had thought about and figured out how your life would be improved? So how do you see that improvement? I do believe sky has been open since time began, Laws on working hours are easily bypassed so mean nothing but they already existed before the eu, Freedom of movement will always be there for people wanting to work obtaining a visa isn't exactly a hardship, Reduced roaming charges, seriously? Fuck me isn't the eu great
Polution controls are a global thing and we we will continue with them regardless,
No such thing as a free trade deal. If it was free why do we pay the eu for it? Where I come from if you pay for something it isn't free.
My reasons for believing my children will have a better quality of life are personal to me and my children and quite bluntly, no one elses business. But I sure as hell don't believe the eu is this great organisation for the greater good you do. believe me obtaining a visa is no easy thing only people who have never had to get one would say such thing
I've had to get a visa before and it was simple. I have friends who emigrated to Australia and didn't have a problem either. So from my experiences it is pretty easy. But we all work and contribute to society "Are you inferring that I didn't contribute tof society? ...as a veteran I beg to differ..I had to pay 1500 pounds supply 5 years proof or address 5 years employment history 5 years proof of Ni and tax contributions and 2 references to get a visa all this after spending 9 years in the royal navy .. | |||
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"The voice of socialism
the droning whine of alt-reich falangism
Why do you presume anyone who doesn't agree with you is a facist or racist? All you want to do is try to supress them and stop them from expressing their view with abusive and agressive behaviour. You hate and condemn anyone you perceive to be different to you. In other words; you sir are a facist.
where did i say fascist or racist?
I suggest you learn the meaning of what you post "so you made up some words that i didn't actually say in a crap attempt to look good while you accuse me of being a fascist ... well done you | |||
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"just the fact that you actively avoid anything (oh, apart from some secret, un-named 'specialist financial publications') that you seem to hold very dear. -Matt" Im pretty sure he's referring to stories in Breitbart not actual financial specialists publications. Thats why he wont name them. For people like Pat its more important to justify their beliefs than it is to make the right decision for his country. Thats why they ignore any information or publications that might disagree with them. Once you get to a certain age your house is paid off and losing your job just means early retirement which isnt so bad. So making the right choice for the future or for jobs isnt really important for you, its only important if you have empathy for your fellow countrymen. | |||
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"Pat, the problem is, I don't think you are actually an internet forum troll. I think you *actually* believe this shit you spout in real life. And the danger is that you will spout it to people who don't have the mental faculties to realise you talk bullshit and alas those people have a vote in the future of the country. That is what has lead us to this mess in the first place. You think posting links is some kind of 'intellectual superiority'? What a very strange thing to think. You say (and have said many times before) that you don't read links as you think they might not agree with your viewpoint. Yet you say things like you are unaware of any companies that think Brexit may seriously harm them. Yet spend just 20 seconds looking about and you will find companies that are concerned about the damage it will cause to their business. And they are putting in contingency plans or altering their plans to mitigate the un-certainty and damage it will cause. Some companies will no doubt do very well out of Brexit... e.g. those in the stock market that are betting on the demise of the pound are an example. You have a right to an opinion, just as everyone else is. And I'm more than happy to chat to people whose opinions differ from mine. In fact, I very much enjoy it as I always end up learning something more that I knew before. The bit that I don't get is you say "I've never seen something" then when presented with evidence of it, you say "I don't read links as they might differ from my viewpoint". Well, don't you see the problem in that? Do you not think that revelling in your own ignorance is strange? Do you not think that that kind of thinking is dangerous to society as a whole? Again, I'm not talking about your specific viewpoint or what side of the argument you are on... just the fact that you actively avoid anything (oh, apart from some secret, un-named 'specialist financial publications') that you seem to hold very dear. -Matt" I am pretty confident that you could easily locate the specialist publications yourself of you were so inclined . I read plenty of articles that do not agree with my opinions or is subscribing to three newspapers a day insufficient for you . ? Lucky I have always had sufficient self control not to refer to other posters posts as shit . I hope that this is a quality that I will retain for the rest of my life . The feedback that is important to me is the people will whom I do businness . The Internet is in some ways a fantasy world . You have previously said that you lecture ? Do you refer to your students work as shit?. Any investor who acted on the advice of those who predicted a gloomy future last June and sold their investments in shares would now be looking at a loss of up to 25%. Many of these could be pensioners so not massively rich either . It might just be that shit advice is good | |||
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"just the fact that you actively avoid anything (oh, apart from some secret, un-named 'specialist financial publications') that you seem to hold very dear. -Matt Im pretty sure he's referring to stories in Breitbart not actual financial specialists publications. Thats why he wont name them. For people like Pat its more important to justify their beliefs than it is to make the right decision for his country. Thats why they ignore any information or publications that might disagree with them. Once you get to a certain age your house is paid off and losing your job just means early retirement which isnt so bad. So making the right choice for the future or for jobs isnt really important for you, its only important if you have empathy for your fellow countrymen." It might of course be even more important to make the right decision as you have less time in which to correct errors . Who say anything about ignoring publications or information that might disagree . On most decisions in life you will read a number of different opinions and come to a conclusion. I am certain that you could easily locate the two publications to which I refer . You are allowed a free review of certain aspects of them and they are reputable businness publications with no political bias . They are purely geared towards investment advice. | |||
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"TBH, I don't see my life improving. I see it getting worse and certainly much worse for my children. Regarding holidays in Europe, it'll be back to a couple of bottles wine and a few hundred fags (not that I smoke). Anyone remember the time when we were limited to the amount of cash you could take abroad? Yes I do remember that time but that was for economic reasons that could not exist today. I am very sure in time your children will be better off in time as Europe decends in to chaos and they will thank people like me for voting to leave the EU. I know you like to slag off brexiteers but you will be proved wrong I am 100% certain,please try to be a bit more open minded and strive for a better future rather than just being negative. Or maybe take your family to live abroad,you do not why?I know that answer" If you're 100% sure of something, as you say you are, then YOU are the one who's not being open minded. | |||
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"Pat, the problem is, I don't think you are actually an internet forum troll. I think you *actually* believe this shit you spout in real life. And the danger is that you will spout it to people who don't have the mental faculties to realise you talk bullshit and alas those people have a vote in the future of the country. That is what has lead us to this mess in the first place. You think posting links is some kind of 'intellectual superiority'? What a very strange thing to think. You say (and have said many times before) that you don't read links as you think they might not agree with your viewpoint. Yet you say things like you are unaware of any companies that think Brexit may seriously harm them. Yet spend just 20 seconds looking about and you will find companies that are concerned about the damage it will cause to their business. And they are putting in contingency plans or altering their plans to mitigate the un-certainty and damage it will cause. Some companies will no doubt do very well out of Brexit... e.g. those in the stock market that are betting on the demise of the pound are an example. You have a right to an opinion, just as everyone else is. And I'm more than happy to chat to people whose opinions differ from mine. In fact, I very much enjoy it as I always end up learning something more that I knew before. The bit that I don't get is you say "I've never seen something" then when presented with evidence of it, you say "I don't read links as they might differ from my viewpoint". Well, don't you see the problem in that? Do you not think that revelling in your own ignorance is strange? Do you not think that that kind of thinking is dangerous to society as a whole? Again, I'm not talking about your specific viewpoint or what side of the argument you are on... just the fact that you actively avoid anything (oh, apart from some secret, un-named 'specialist financial publications') that you seem to hold very dear. -Matt I am pretty confident that you could easily locate the specialist publications yourself of you were so inclined . I read plenty of articles that do not agree with my opinions or is subscribing to three newspapers a day insufficient for you . ? Lucky I have always had sufficient self control not to refer to other posters posts as shit . I hope that this is a quality that I will retain for the rest of my life . The feedback that is important to me is the people will whom I do businness . The Internet is in some ways a fantasy world . You have previously said that you lecture ? Do you refer to your students work as shit?. Any investor who acted on the advice of those who predicted a gloomy future last June and sold their investments in shares would now be looking at a loss of up to 25%. Many of these could be pensioners so not massively rich either . It might just be that shit advice is good "Yes, I occasionally lecture at schools and universities. If a student brought me a piece of work and they attempted to back up their arguments in the way you do, yes I would call it shit. Because it would be. -Matt | |||
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"... yeah, in about six months if this current shower of clueless shit-gibbons carry on the way they have been" Until there is an opposition worthy of that name there is no chance that this government will be removed within the next 6 years, nether mind 6 months, regardless what they do on BREXIT or anything else. | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my son" So you believe that being personally materially worse of is some how better for the UK, Europe and the future of your son? Interesting perspective on live I guess. | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my sonWell said the other side do not seem to understand this" No, your wrong, we fully understand that many BREXITers voted knowing it would make us all worse of but did it any how because they're plastic patriots who think that singing Rule Britannia and waving a Union Jack in the air is all it takes to be patriotic. Real patriots actually care about the people and there futures and would never in 1000 years have voted to make their country and its people worse of. | |||
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"Just wondering in what way people feel that their lives will improve once the UK is free of the EU? Unfortunately I can't see any personal changes that would be beneficial for me as most of the things that I enjoy are going on one curtailed in some way. Travel is our hobby and open skies and open borders will not include the U.K. and presumably the EU reduced roaming fees will also not include the U.K. I would be interested to know who feels that they will materially benefit and in what way. * Abolition European human rights so criminals would not be able to use it as grounds to avoid deportation. " We are bound to our commitment to Human Rights by our membership of the UN and the European Convention on Human Rights. The UK is a founding member of both these organisations and our membership of both is unrelated to being either in or out of the EU. Leaving the EU will make no difference. " * Lower energy costs . We have not have to adhere to the EU green policies " And yet energy prices are already lower across most of Europe than here so how can it possibly be that EU regulations are the main cause of high energy prices only in the UK but not the rest of the EU " * I will be able to buy the type or light bulbs that I want . " No you won't. Incandescent Electric Light Bulbs are banned in most countries around the world now. It wo we be inconceivable that the UK alone throughout the world would reintroduce them " * Border control so we will be safer. " But lower levels of cross border cooperation in counter terrorism so we'll be less safe " *. Withdrawn of CPD so I will be able to drive buses and lorries commercially * Reduced immigration will mean less strain on the infrastructure and NHS . " And a smaller pool of trained and qualified people to recruit to work for it " * More money to spend by the government in the UK as we are net contributors to the EU and will save these costs . " Is that the mythical £350 million a week we're meant to get back. How's that going so far? | |||
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"The single biggest improvement will be Brexit threads disappearing from the forum." | |||
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"The single biggest improvement will be Brexit threads disappearing from the forum." Hahahahaha... yeah
Don't worry... we have quite a few years left still
-Matt | |||
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"Pat, the problem is, I don't think you are actually an internet forum troll. I think you *actually* believe this shit you spout in real life. And the danger is that you will spout it to people who don't have the mental faculties to realise you talk bullshit and alas those people have a vote in the future of the country. That is what has lead us to this mess in the first place. You think posting links is some kind of 'intellectual superiority'? What a very strange thing to think. You say (and have said many times before) that you don't read links as you think they might not agree with your viewpoint. Yet you say things like you are unaware of any companies that think Brexit may seriously harm them. Yet spend just 20 seconds looking about and you will find companies that are concerned about the damage it will cause to their business. And they are putting in contingency plans or altering their plans to mitigate the un-certainty and damage it will cause. Some companies will no doubt do very well out of Brexit... e.g. those in the stock market that are betting on the demise of the pound are an example. You have a right to an opinion, just as everyone else is. And I'm more than happy to chat to people whose opinions differ from mine. In fact, I very much enjoy it as I always end up learning something more that I knew before. The bit that I don't get is you say "I've never seen something" then when presented with evidence of it, you say "I don't read links as they might differ from my viewpoint". Well, don't you see the problem in that? Do you not think that revelling in your own ignorance is strange? Do you not think that that kind of thinking is dangerous to society as a whole? Again, I'm not talking about your specific viewpoint or what side of the argument you are on... just the fact that you actively avoid anything (oh, apart from some secret, un-named 'specialist financial publications') that you seem to hold very dear. -Matt I am pretty confident that you could easily locate the specialist publications yourself of you were so inclined . I read plenty of articles that do not agree with my opinions or is subscribing to three newspapers a day insufficient for you . ? Lucky I have always had sufficient self control not to refer to other posters posts as shit . I hope that this is a quality that I will retain for the rest of my life . The feedback that is important to me is the people will whom I do businness . The Internet is in some ways a fantasy world . You have previously said that you lecture ? Do you refer to your students work as shit?. Any investor who acted on the advice of those who predicted a gloomy future last June and sold their investments in shares would now be looking at a loss of up to 25%. Many of these could be pensioners so not massively rich either . It might just be that shit advice is good
Yes, I occasionally lecture at schools and universities. If a student brought me a piece of work and they attempted to back up their arguments in the way you do, yes I would call it shit. Because it would be.
-Matt"I am pretty certain that if you were to refer to a students work as shit you would have your contract promptly terminated and in addition you might find some students parents paying you a personal visit in the class room or lecture hall. If I understand what you have said correctly you have said that my posts are shit ( I have no objection what so ever to you expressing such an opinion because I always assume that anyone using derogatory language is automatically in the wrong otherwise they would not resort to the use of such words ) but in addition you appear to imply that some readers might believe posts containing ( to quote your words ) shit information but because of your intellectual superiority you need to protect the less intelligent . I consider it an odd stance to take especially as I had classed you with a high degree of self control . It would appear that I have mis judged . | |||
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"The single biggest improvement will be Brexit threads disappearing from the forum." | |||
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"I am pretty confident that you could easily locate the specialist publications yourself of you were so inclined . I read plenty of articles that do not agree with my opinions or is subscribing to three newspapers a day insufficient for you . ? Lucky I have always had sufficient self control not to refer to other posters posts as shit . I hope that this is a quality that I will retain for the rest of my life . The feedback that is important to me is the people will whom I do businness . The Internet is in some ways a fantasy world . You have previously said that you lecture ? Do you refer to your students work as shit?. Any investor who acted on the advice of those who predicted a gloomy future last June and sold their investments in shares would now be looking at a loss of up to 25%. Many of these could be pensioners so not massively rich either . It might just be that shit advice is good "I tell you what, why not just tell us what the specialist publications that you refer to are? Laughably easy really. Why the secrecy? | |||
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"Pat, the problem is, I don't think you are actually an internet forum troll. I think you *actually* believe this shit you spout in real life. And the danger is that you will spout it to people who don't have the mental faculties to realise you talk bullshit and alas those people have a vote in the future of the country. That is what has lead us to this mess in the first place. You think posting links is some kind of 'intellectual superiority'? What a very strange thing to think. You say (and have said many times before) that you don't read links as you think they might not agree with your viewpoint. Yet you say things like you are unaware of any companies that think Brexit may seriously harm them. Yet spend just 20 seconds looking about and you will find companies that are concerned about the damage it will cause to their business. And they are putting in contingency plans or altering their plans to mitigate the un-certainty and damage it will cause. Some companies will no doubt do very well out of Brexit... e.g. those in the stock market that are betting on the demise of the pound are an example. You have a right to an opinion, just as everyone else is. And I'm more than happy to chat to people whose opinions differ from mine. In fact, I very much enjoy it as I always end up learning something more that I knew before. The bit that I don't get is you say "I've never seen something" then when presented with evidence of it, you say "I don't read links as they might differ from my viewpoint". Well, don't you see the problem in that? Do you not think that revelling in your own ignorance is strange? Do you not think that that kind of thinking is dangerous to society as a whole? Again, I'm not talking about your specific viewpoint or what side of the argument you are on... just the fact that you actively avoid anything (oh, apart from some secret, un-named 'specialist financial publications') that you seem to hold very dear. -Matt I am pretty confident that you could easily locate the specialist publications yourself of you were so inclined . I read plenty of articles that do not agree with my opinions or is subscribing to three newspapers a day insufficient for you . ? Lucky I have always had sufficient self control not to refer to other posters posts as shit . I hope that this is a quality that I will retain for the rest of my life . The feedback that is important to me is the people will whom I do businness . The Internet is in some ways a fantasy world . You have previously said that you lecture ? Do you refer to your students work as shit?. Any investor who acted on the advice of those who predicted a gloomy future last June and sold their investments in shares would now be looking at a loss of up to 25%. Many of these could be pensioners so not massively rich either . It might just be that shit advice is good
Yes, I occasionally lecture at schools and universities. If a student brought me a piece of work and they attempted to back up their arguments in the way you do, yes I would call it shit. Because it would be.
-Matt I am pretty certain that if you were to refer to a students work as shit you would have your contract promptly terminated and in addition you might find some students parents paying you a personal visit in the class room or lecture hall.
If I understand what you have said correctly you have said that my posts are shit ( I have no objection what so ever to you expressing such an opinion because I always assume that anyone using derogatory language is automatically in the wrong otherwise they would not resort to the use of such words ) but in addition you appear to imply that some readers might believe posts containing ( to quote your words ) shit information but because of your intellectual superiority you need to protect the less intelligent .
I consider it an odd stance to take especially as I had classed you with a high degree of self control . It would appear that I have mis judged . "And I would tell those parents how shit the work is. Seriously. If I was dealing with a university student who, after being repeatedly told that their approach to presenting their argument in their work is flawed, continued to do so and then revel in the ignorance... I would be livid. Just a small point of correction... I don't believe I've ever said your posts are shit... I've said you spout a lot of shit, and bullshit to be more precise. Yes, I am normally a lot more reserved... but everyone's patience has a limit I'm afraid. My desire to protect those who don't have the cognitive ability or education to realise what you are spouting is bullshit is not out of some kind of 'intellectual superiority' but as a civic duty. I'm all for people having their own opinions and want them to form their own. But by promoting ignorance and that it is 'cool' to ignore facts and evidence then we do our society a dis-service. And again, to re-iterate, my worry is that you actually believe what you post on here, and that it is a view you hold outside in the real world. Although, that said, I think it would be easier in the real world for someone face to face with you to realise your contradictions. -Matt | |||
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" It might of course be even more important to make the right decision as you have less time in which to correct errors . Who say anything about ignoring publications or information that might disagree . On most decisions in life you will read a number of different opinions and come to a conclusion. I am certain that you could easily locate the two publications to which I refer . You are allowed a free review of certain aspects of them and they are reputable businness publications with no political bias . They are purely geared towards investment advice. " But you clearly ignore information that you disagree with. You will still post saying that the stock market is booming despite the fact that its worth less than it was before Brexit. Its not even some controversial opinion, its hard fact that the devaluation is more than the rise in share prices. If % of devaluation is greater than % of rise in share price then its worth less. Inflation should also be factored in but its not even needed to show the markets worth less. And yet you still persist in saying the market has shown improvement because you are now just being hardheaded and refusing to acknowledge that basic maths prove you wrong. Youre no longer arguing opinions youre now arguing that maths are wrong and result in lies. Or are you actually ready to admit that the value of the FTSE has gone down because price rises cant keep up with devaluation? | |||
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"Well Brexit will probably mean more jobs for Dublin, more money being spent here, higher tax revenue without tax increases, lower social spending so maybe even tax decreases. It'll work pretty well for Ireland. Plus Im kind of a dick so part of me will enjoy the schadenfreude of the Brexiters slowly realising that all the companies that talk about leaving arent just saying it, theyre actually working on leaving and they realise they voted to fuck their own economy. Luckily the UK stock market is booming and does not share your pessimistic view. It is at an all time high. Why would a any company want to incur the expense of moving abroad . A few will but that would have happened in any event . " It's at an all time high because the majority of the FTSE100 index report their profits in US$. The pound has dropped 20 percent. You don't need to be a genius to work out that this will boost the FTSE100. Open your eyes man. Your point about a weak pound being good for exporters. That's generally true, apart from the fact that as a country, we're the second biggest net importer in the world. Therefore, a weak pound is NEVER good news for the economy, it can only ever hurt us. | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my sonWell said the other side do not seem to understand this No, your wrong, we fully understand that many BREXITers voted knowing it would make us all worse of but did it any how because they're plastic patriots who think that singing Rule Britannia and waving a Union Jack in the air is all it takes to be patriotic. Real patriots actually care about the people and there futures and would never in 1000 years have voted to make their country and its people worse of." 100% correct! | |||
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"Pat, the problem is, I don't think you are actually an internet forum troll. I think you *actually* believe this shit you spout in real life. And the danger is that you will spout it to people who don't have the mental faculties to realise you talk bullshit and alas those people have a vote in the future of the country. That is what has lead us to this mess in the first place. You think posting links is some kind of 'intellectual superiority'? What a very strange thing to think. You say (and have said many times before) that you don't read links as you think they might not agree with your viewpoint. Yet you say things like you are unaware of any companies that think Brexit may seriously harm them. Yet spend just 20 seconds looking about and you will find companies that are concerned about the damage it will cause to their business. And they are putting in contingency plans or altering their plans to mitigate the un-certainty and damage it will cause. Some companies will no doubt do very well out of Brexit... e.g. those in the stock market that are betting on the demise of the pound are an example. You have a right to an opinion, just as everyone else is. And I'm more than happy to chat to people whose opinions differ from mine. In fact, I very much enjoy it as I always end up learning something more that I knew before. The bit that I don't get is you say "I've never seen something" then when presented with evidence of it, you say "I don't read links as they might differ from my viewpoint". Well, don't you see the problem in that? Do you not think that revelling in your own ignorance is strange? Do you not think that that kind of thinking is dangerous to society as a whole? Again, I'm not talking about your specific viewpoint or what side of the argument you are on... just the fact that you actively avoid anything (oh, apart from some secret, un-named 'specialist financial publications') that you seem to hold very dear. -Matt I am pretty confident that you could easily locate the specialist publications yourself of you were so inclined . I read plenty of articles that do not agree with my opinions or is subscribing to three newspapers a day insufficient for you . ? Lucky I have always had sufficient self control not to refer to other posters posts as shit . I hope that this is a quality that I will retain for the rest of my life . The feedback that is important to me is the people will whom I do businness . The Internet is in some ways a fantasy world . You have previously said that you lecture ? Do you refer to your students work as shit?. Any investor who acted on the advice of those who predicted a gloomy future last June and sold their investments in shares would now be looking at a loss of up to 25%. Many of these could be pensioners so not massively rich either . It might just be that shit advice is good
Yes, I occasionally lecture at schools and universities. If a student brought me a piece of work and they attempted to back up their arguments in the way you do, yes I would call it shit. Because it would be.
-Matt I am pretty certain that if you were to refer to a students work as shit you would have your contract promptly terminated and in addition you might find some students parents paying you a personal visit in the class room or lecture hall.
If I understand what you have said correctly you have said that my posts are shit ( I have no objection what so ever to you expressing such an opinion because I always assume that anyone using derogatory language is automatically in the wrong otherwise they would not resort to the use of such words ) but in addition you appear to imply that some readers might believe posts containing ( to quote your words ) shit information but because of your intellectual superiority you need to protect the less intelligent .
I consider it an odd stance to take especially as I had classed you with a high degree of self control . It would appear that I have mis judged .
And I would tell those parents how shit the work is. Seriously. If I was dealing with a university student who, after being repeatedly told that their approach to presenting their argument in their work is flawed, continued to do so and then revel in the ignorance... I would be livid.
Just a small point of correction... I don't believe I've ever said your posts are shit... I've said you spout a lot of shit, and bullshit to be more precise. Yes, I am normally a lot more reserved... but everyone's patience has a limit I'm afraid.
My desire to protect those who don't have the cognitive ability or education to realise what you are spouting is bullshit is not out of some kind of 'intellectual superiority' but as a civic duty. I'm all for people having their own opinions and want them to form their own. But by promoting ignorance and that it is 'cool' to ignore facts and evidence then we do our society a dis-service. And again, to re-iterate, my worry is that you actually believe what you post on here, and that it is a view you hold outside in the real world. Although, that said, I think it would be easier in the real world for someone face to face with you to realise your contradictions.
-Matt
"However I do not think anyone has said that it is cool to ignore facts and evidence . However there is a limit to how much time can be spent researching information. If I am installing a new central heating boiler and deciding which model to buy I am quite happy to rely on either Which or a Central Heating engineer giving me advice . I have no need to do detailed research of the facts . In any event I have probably built up a detailed knowledge of them through life experience or my own use of them as I own both condensing , non condensing , combi and oiler fired boilers . I have also installed and designed a complete system myself . I will endeavour to keep my knowledge of boilers up to date and see no necessity to constantly updated facts and evidence . When you say that I ignore facts and evidence , you may be slightly confused . On point of principle I refuse to look at any source evidence quoted on these forums for two reasons . a. The link is probably biased in order to prove the posters point . b. Some posters are simply lazy and use a link to avoid summarising the content of the link. c. I consider it patronising to post links . If I need to research a topic I am capable of doing it myself without being told how to do it . Vice versa , I never post any links to any topics on which I comment . d. I am happy to accept any posters comments at face value . It is hardly going to make any difference to anyone's life whether the content of the post is true or false . We are in Cyberland , not the real world . I go to evening classes in French and many of the students are talented and multi lingual. I may not be as talented as other students but the lecturer has always been extremely polite and helpfull. As far as I am aware she has never called my work shute though we only speak in French as communication in English is discouraged . We have even discussed the USA election result in French and learnt the relevant key words. I find it strange that you consider yourself to have a civic duty to protect other members from reading what you class as bull shit . Opinions which you personally class as bullshit may be very valid to others . I like to exercise self control and refrain from making such remarks towards other members posts. By reading a number of different opinions from various sources I am satisfied that there is like to be gained from looking at facts and evidence . If I need an opinion on Global warming I would not have time to spend trawling facts and evidence . The opinion of Christopher Brooker is good enough for me . On other issues I can get sufficient information from the three daily papers which I purchase . I can store what information is necessary in my head. | |||
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"Well Brexit will probably mean more jobs for Dublin, more money being spent here, higher tax revenue without tax increases, lower social spending so maybe even tax decreases. It'll work pretty well for Ireland. Plus Im kind of a dick so part of me will enjoy the schadenfreude of the Brexiters slowly realising that all the companies that talk about leaving arent just saying it, theyre actually working on leaving and they realise they voted to fuck their own economy. Luckily the UK stock market is booming and does not share your pessimistic view. It is at an all time high. Why would a any company want to incur the expense of moving abroad . A few will but that would have happened in any event . It's at an all time high because the majority of the FTSE100 index report their profits in US$. The pound has dropped 20 percent. You don't need to be a genius to work out that this will boost the FTSE100. Open your eyes man. Your point about a weak pound being good for exporters. That's generally true, apart from the fact that as a country, we're the second biggest net importer in the world. Therefore, a weak pound is NEVER good news for the economy, it can only ever hurt us. " I am not quite sure why I would need to open my eyes as the valuation ( and consequently share price ) of most companies will be based on the future earnings potential and not historically reported profits . Currency movements will have been discounted out and if companies were that concerned about Brexit , share prices would have collapsed . In addition economic growth in the UK is better than expected. | |||
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" It might of course be even more important to make the right decision as you have less time in which to correct errors . Who say anything about ignoring publications or information that might disagree . On most decisions in life you will read a number of different opinions and come to a conclusion. I am certain that you could easily locate the two publications to which I refer . You are allowed a free review of certain aspects of them and they are reputable businness publications with no political bias . They are purely geared towards investment advice. But you clearly ignore information that you disagree with. You will still post saying that the stock market is booming despite the fact that its worth less than it was before Brexit. Its not even some controversial opinion, its hard fact that the devaluation is more than the rise in share prices. If % of devaluation is greater than % of rise in share price then its worth less. Inflation should also be factored in but its not even needed to show the markets worth less. And yet you still persist in saying the market has shown improvement because you are now just being hardheaded and refusing to acknowledge that basic maths prove you wrong. Youre no longer arguing opinions youre now arguing that maths are wrong and result in lies. Or are you actually ready to admit that the value of the FTSE has gone down because price rises cant keep up with devaluation?" I have never argued about a mathematical calculation. On a simplistic basis if companies are valued on a future earnings potential the currency movements do not really come into the equation. What actually matters is the companies ability to generate long term profits . If the future was as gloomy as some posters predict share prices would have collapsed . This is not the case and most companies are not unduly concerned . Life goes on any other counties will still want to buy our goods . Some posters on here seem obsessed with currency movements . | |||
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"Just wondering in what way people feel that their lives will improve once the UK is free of the EU? Unfortunately I can't see any personal changes that would be beneficial for me as most of the things that I enjoy are going on one curtailed in some way. Travel is our hobby and open skies and open borders will not include the U.K. and presumably the EU reduced roaming fees will also not include the U.K. I would be interested to know who feels that they will materially benefit and in what way." hopefully I won't have to listen to the stupid fucking phrase "Brexit" anymore, pisses me off more than finding a bag of soggy crisps | |||
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" However I do not think anyone has said that it is cool to ignore facts and evidence . However there is a limit to how much time can be spent researching information. If I am installing a new central heating boiler and deciding which model to buy I am quite happy to rely on either Which or a Central Heating engineer giving me advice . I have no need to do detailed research of the facts . In any event I have probably built up a detailed knowledge of them through life experience or my own use of them as I own both condensing , non condensing , combi and oiler fired boilers . I have also installed and designed a complete system myself . I will endeavour to keep my knowledge of boilers up to date and see no necessity to constantly updated facts and evidence . When you say that I ignore facts and evidence , you may be slightly confused . On point of principle I refuse to look at any source evidence quoted on these forums for two reasons . a. The link is probably biased in order to prove the posters point . b. Some posters are simply lazy and use a link to avoid summarising the content of the link. c. I consider it patronising to post links . If I need to research a topic I am capable of doing it myself without being told how to do it . Vice versa , I never post any links to any topics on which I comment . d. I am happy to accept any posters comments at face value . It is hardly going to make any difference to anyone's life whether the content of the post is true or false . We are in Cyberland , not the real world . I go to evening classes in French and many of the students are talented and multi lingual. I may not be as talented as other students but the lecturer has always been extremely polite and helpfull. As far as I am aware she has never called my work shute though we only speak in French as communication in English is discouraged . We have even discussed the USA election result in French and learnt the relevant key words. I find it strange that you consider yourself to have a civic duty to protect other members from reading what you class as bull shit . Opinions which you personally class as bullshit may be very valid to others . I like to exercise self control and refrain from making such remarks towards other members posts. By reading a number of different opinions from various sources I am satisfied that there is like to be gained from looking at facts and evidence . If I need an opinion on Global warming I would not have time to spend trawling facts and evidence . The opinion of Christopher Brooker is good enough for me . On other issues I can get sufficient information from the three daily papers which I purchase . I can store what information is necessary in my head. " Do you mean Christopher Booker instead of Brooker. I certainly hope not because Christopher Booker has been exposed as a serial liar on many occassions. From lying about child abuse, global warming, the dangers of cigarettes and asbestos. He has supported paedophiles and been found guilty of liable. If this is the man you defer to on your opinions on any of these matters then you should have a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself if maybe you shouldnt trust someone that supports paedophiles and tries to cover up child abuse. Honest to God, first I thought you were misinformed, then I thought you just werent smart enough to understand the topics at hand....now I have no idea what to think. Child abuse is never ok and the fact that you support this man is stunning. | |||
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" It might of course be even more important to make the right decision as you have less time in which to correct errors . Who say anything about ignoring publications or information that might disagree . On most decisions in life you will read a number of different opinions and come to a conclusion. I am certain that you could easily locate the two publications to which I refer . You are allowed a free review of certain aspects of them and they are reputable businness publications with no political bias . They are purely geared towards investment advice. But you clearly ignore information that you disagree with. You will still post saying that the stock market is booming despite the fact that its worth less than it was before Brexit. Its not even some controversial opinion, its hard fact that the devaluation is more than the rise in share prices. If % of devaluation is greater than % of rise in share price then its worth less. Inflation should also be factored in but its not even needed to show the markets worth less. And yet you still persist in saying the market has shown improvement because you are now just being hardheaded and refusing to acknowledge that basic maths prove you wrong. Youre no longer arguing opinions youre now arguing that maths are wrong and result in lies. Or are you actually ready to admit that the value of the FTSE has gone down because price rises cant keep up with devaluation? I have never argued about a mathematical calculation. On a simplistic basis if companies are valued on a future earnings potential the currency movements do not really come into the equation. What actually matters is the companies ability to generate long term profits . If the future was as gloomy as some posters predict share prices would have collapsed . This is not the case and most companies are not unduly concerned . Life goes on any other counties will still want to buy our goods . Some posters on here seem obsessed with currency movements . " Ok so if your not arguing the math then we are all in agreement that the stock market is worth less now than it was before Brexit. Glad thats cleared up and we can move on. | |||
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" However I do not think anyone has said that it is cool to ignore facts and evidence . However there is a limit to how much time can be spent researching information. If I am installing a new central heating boiler and deciding which model to buy I am quite happy to rely on either Which or a Central Heating engineer giving me advice . I have no need to do detailed research of the facts . In any event I have probably built up a detailed knowledge of them through life experience or my own use of them as I own both condensing , non condensing , combi and oiler fired boilers . I have also installed and designed a complete system myself . I will endeavour to keep my knowledge of boilers up to date and see no necessity to constantly updated facts and evidence . When you say that I ignore facts and evidence , you may be slightly confused . On point of principle I refuse to look at any source evidence quoted on these forums for two reasons . a. The link is probably biased in order to prove the posters point . b. Some posters are simply lazy and use a link to avoid summarising the content of the link. c. I consider it patronising to post links . If I need to research a topic I am capable of doing it myself without being told how to do it . Vice versa , I never post any links to any topics on which I comment . d. I am happy to accept any posters comments at face value . It is hardly going to make any difference to anyone's life whether the content of the post is true or false . We are in Cyberland , not the real world . I go to evening classes in French and many of the students are talented and multi lingual. I may not be as talented as other students but the lecturer has always been extremely polite and helpfull. As far as I am aware she has never called my work shute though we only speak in French as communication in English is discouraged . We have even discussed the USA election result in French and learnt the relevant key words. I find it strange that you consider yourself to have a civic duty to protect other members from reading what you class as bull shit . Opinions which you personally class as bullshit may be very valid to others . I like to exercise self control and refrain from making such remarks towards other members posts. By reading a number of different opinions from various sources I am satisfied that there is like to be gained from looking at facts and evidence . If I need an opinion on Global warming I would not have time to spend trawling facts and evidence . The opinion of Christopher Brooker is good enough for me . On other issues I can get sufficient information from the three daily papers which I purchase . I can store what information is necessary in my head. " Here's a lazy response about Christopher Brooker who pretty much appears to be the journalistic version of you. It is natural for you to therefore find his views acceptable as they reinforce your own. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/oct/13/christopher-booker | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my sonWell said the other side do not seem to understand this No, your wrong, we fully understand that many BREXITers voted knowing it would make us all worse of but did it any how because they're plastic patriots who think that singing Rule Britannia and waving a Union Jack in the air is all it takes to be patriotic. Real patriots actually care about the people and there futures and would never in 1000 years have voted to make their country and its people worse of. " That is right, brexiters are living in a fantasy world | |||
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" It might of course be even more important to make the right decision as you have less time in which to correct errors . Who say anything about ignoring publications or information that might disagree . On most decisions in life you will read a number of different opinions and come to a conclusion. I am certain that you could easily locate the two publications to which I refer . You are allowed a free review of certain aspects of them and they are reputable businness publications with no political bias . They are purely geared towards investment advice. But you clearly ignore information that you disagree with. You will still post saying that the stock market is booming despite the fact that its worth less than it was before Brexit. Its not even some controversial opinion, its hard fact that the devaluation is more than the rise in share prices. If % of devaluation is greater than % of rise in share price then its worth less. Inflation should also be factored in but its not even needed to show the markets worth less. And yet you still persist in saying the market has shown improvement because you are now just being hardheaded and refusing to acknowledge that basic maths prove you wrong. Youre no longer arguing opinions youre now arguing that maths are wrong and result in lies. Or are you actually ready to admit that the value of the FTSE has gone down because price rises cant keep up with devaluation? I have never argued about a mathematical calculation. On a simplistic basis if companies are valued on a future earnings potential the currency movements do not really come into the equation. What actually matters is the companies ability to generate long term profits . If the future was as gloomy as some posters predict share prices would have collapsed . This is not the case and most companies are not unduly concerned . Life goes on any other counties will still want to buy our goods . Some posters on here seem obsessed with currency movements . Ok so if your not arguing the math then we are all in agreement that the stock market is worth less now than it was before Brexit. Glad thats cleared up and we can move on." A very strange assumption to make as the values are based on future earnings potential with currency gains being factored in and any other material factors factored in accordingly . Last time I looked the market had moved substantially upwards since June last year . I am at a total loss to understand how anyone could claim it has fallen. Any one selling shares last June and believing in a grim future would have lost up to 25 % of their investments . We will probably have to leave it and accept that your method and my method of valuing shares are totally different . | |||
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" However I do not think anyone has said that it is cool to ignore facts and evidence . However there is a limit to how much time can be spent researching information. If I am installing a new central heating boiler and deciding which model to buy I am quite happy to rely on either Which or a Central Heating engineer giving me advice . I have no need to do detailed research of the facts . In any event I have probably built up a detailed knowledge of them through life experience or my own use of them as I own both condensing , non condensing , combi and oiler fired boilers . I have also installed and designed a complete system myself . I will endeavour to keep my knowledge of boilers up to date and see no necessity to constantly updated facts and evidence . When you say that I ignore facts and evidence , you may be slightly confused . On point of principle I refuse to look at any source evidence quoted on these forums for two reasons . a. The link is probably biased in order to prove the posters point . b. Some posters are simply lazy and use a link to avoid summarising the content of the link. c. I consider it patronising to post links . If I need to research a topic I am capable of doing it myself without being told how to do it . Vice versa , I never post any links to any topics on which I comment . d. I am happy to accept any posters comments at face value . It is hardly going to make any difference to anyone's life whether the content of the post is true or false . We are in Cyberland , not the real world . I go to evening classes in French and many of the students are talented and multi lingual. I may not be as talented as other students but the lecturer has always been extremely polite and helpfull. As far as I am aware she has never called my work shute though we only speak in French as communication in English is discouraged . We have even discussed the USA election result in French and learnt the relevant key words. I find it strange that you consider yourself to have a civic duty to protect other members from reading what you class as bull shit . Opinions which you personally class as bullshit may be very valid to others . I like to exercise self control and refrain from making such remarks towards other members posts. By reading a number of different opinions from various sources I am satisfied that there is like to be gained from looking at facts and evidence . If I need an opinion on Global warming I would not have time to spend trawling facts and evidence . The opinion of Christopher Brooker is good enough for me . On other issues I can get sufficient information from the three daily papers which I purchase . I can store what information is necessary in my head. Do you mean Christopher Booker instead of Brooker. I certainly hope not because Christopher Booker has been exposed as a serial liar on many occassions. From lying about child abuse, global warming, the dangers of cigarettes and asbestos. He has supported paedophiles and been found guilty of liable. If this is the man you defer to on your opinions on any of these matters then you should have a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself if maybe you shouldnt trust someone that supports paedophiles and tries to cover up child abuse. Honest to God, first I thought you were misinformed, then I thought you just werent smart enough to understand the topics at hand....now I have no idea what to think. Child abuse is never ok and the fact that you support this man is stunning." I have read his book and found it informative and interesting . I will ignore your other comments as he is a respected Sunday Telegraph columnist . Unless someone is convicted in a court of law of the offences to which you refer I simply ignore them and assume that it is just an attempt to blacken their name . He is spot on with his comments on Asbestos . Sometimes the truth hurts . | |||
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" . I will ignore your other comments as he is a respected Sunday Telegraph columnist . Unless someone is convicted in a court of law of the offences to which you refer I simply ignore them and assume that it is just an attempt to blacken their name . " So youre choosing to ignore facts and wont look into them yourself. Youve decided theres no possibility any of your opinions are wrong and that youre willing to overlook support of child abuse. Think that says everything about you as a person. | |||
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" However I do not think anyone has said that it is cool to ignore facts and evidence . However there is a limit to how much time can be spent researching information. If I am installing a new central heating boiler and deciding which model to buy I am quite happy to rely on either Which or a Central Heating engineer giving me advice . I have no need to do detailed research of the facts . In any event I have probably built up a detailed knowledge of them through life experience or my own use of them as I own both condensing , non condensing , combi and oiler fired boilers . I have also installed and designed a complete system myself . I will endeavour to keep my knowledge of boilers up to date and see no necessity to constantly updated facts and evidence . When you say that I ignore facts and evidence , you may be slightly confused . On point of principle I refuse to look at any source evidence quoted on these forums for two reasons . a. The link is probably biased in order to prove the posters point . b. Some posters are simply lazy and use a link to avoid summarising the content of the link. c. I consider it patronising to post links . If I need to research a topic I am capable of doing it myself without being told how to do it . Vice versa , I never post any links to any topics on which I comment . d. I am happy to accept any posters comments at face value . It is hardly going to make any difference to anyone's life whether the content of the post is true or false . We are in Cyberland , not the real world . I go to evening classes in French and many of the students are talented and multi lingual. I may not be as talented as other students but the lecturer has always been extremely polite and helpfull. As far as I am aware she has never called my work shute though we only speak in French as communication in English is discouraged . We have even discussed the USA election result in French and learnt the relevant key words. I find it strange that you consider yourself to have a civic duty to protect other members from reading what you class as bull shit . Opinions which you personally class as bullshit may be very valid to others . I like to exercise self control and refrain from making such remarks towards other members posts. By reading a number of different opinions from various sources I am satisfied that there is like to be gained from looking at facts and evidence . If I need an opinion on Global warming I would not have time to spend trawling facts and evidence . The opinion of Christopher Brooker is good enough for me . On other issues I can get sufficient information from the three daily papers which I purchase . I can store what information is necessary in my head. Do you mean Christopher Booker instead of Brooker. I certainly hope not because Christopher Booker has been exposed as a serial liar on many occassions. From lying about child abuse, global warming, the dangers of cigarettes and asbestos. He has supported paedophiles and been found guilty of liable. If this is the man you defer to on your opinions on any of these matters then you should have a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself if maybe you shouldnt trust someone that supports paedophiles and tries to cover up child abuse. Honest to God, first I thought you were misinformed, then I thought you just werent smart enough to understand the topics at hand....now I have no idea what to think. Child abuse is never ok and the fact that you support this man is stunning. I have read his book and found it informative and interesting . I will ignore your other comments as he is a respected Sunday Telegraph columnist . Unless someone is convicted in a court of law of the offences to which you refer I simply ignore them and assume that it is just an attempt to blacken their name . He is spot on with his comments on Asbestos . Sometimes the truth hurts . " Not according to the HSE who have rubbished his claims.. on what basis do you say he is spot on, what evidence do you have that the HSE and other scientists are wrong and he is right..? | |||
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" . I will ignore your other comments as he is a respected Sunday Telegraph columnist . Unless someone is convicted in a court of law of the offences to which you refer I simply ignore them and assume that it is just an attempt to blacken their name . So youre choosing to ignore facts and wont look into them yourself. Youve decided theres no possibility any of your opinions are wrong and that youre willing to overlook support of child abuse. Think that says everything about you as a person." I have googled the issue to which you refer and it is not mentioned in any of the results returned so I will assume that is just an attempt by someone to blacken his name . I like to treat people fairly and not just accept incorrect information which may damage their reputation. I am sure that he has quite a few enemies within the climate change industry . | |||
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" However I do not think anyone has said that it is cool to ignore facts and evidence . However there is a limit to how much time can be spent researching information. If I am installing a new central heating boiler and deciding which model to buy I am quite happy to rely on either Which or a Central Heating engineer giving me advice . I have no need to do detailed research of the facts . In any event I have probably built up a detailed knowledge of them through life experience or my own use of them as I own both condensing , non condensing , combi and oiler fired boilers . I have also installed and designed a complete system myself . I will endeavour to keep my knowledge of boilers up to date and see no necessity to constantly updated facts and evidence . When you say that I ignore facts and evidence , you may be slightly confused . On point of principle I refuse to look at any source evidence quoted on these forums for two reasons . a. The link is probably biased in order to prove the posters point . b. Some posters are simply lazy and use a link to avoid summarising the content of the link. c. I consider it patronising to post links . If I need to research a topic I am capable of doing it myself without being told how to do it . Vice versa , I never post any links to any topics on which I comment . d. I am happy to accept any posters comments at face value . It is hardly going to make any difference to anyone's life whether the content of the post is true or false . We are in Cyberland , not the real world . I go to evening classes in French and many of the students are talented and multi lingual. I may not be as talented as other students but the lecturer has always been extremely polite and helpfull. As far as I am aware she has never called my work shute though we only speak in French as communication in English is discouraged . We have even discussed the USA election result in French and learnt the relevant key words. I find it strange that you consider yourself to have a civic duty to protect other members from reading what you class as bull shit . Opinions which you personally class as bullshit may be very valid to others . I like to exercise self control and refrain from making such remarks towards other members posts. By reading a number of different opinions from various sources I am satisfied that there is like to be gained from looking at facts and evidence . If I need an opinion on Global warming I would not have time to spend trawling facts and evidence . The opinion of Christopher Brooker is good enough for me . On other issues I can get sufficient information from the three daily papers which I purchase . I can store what information is necessary in my head. Do you mean Christopher Booker instead of Brooker. I certainly hope not because Christopher Booker has been exposed as a serial liar on many occassions. From lying about child abuse, global warming, the dangers of cigarettes and asbestos. He has supported paedophiles and been found guilty of liable. If this is the man you defer to on your opinions on any of these matters then you should have a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself if maybe you shouldnt trust someone that supports paedophiles and tries to cover up child abuse. Honest to God, first I thought you were misinformed, then I thought you just werent smart enough to understand the topics at hand....now I have no idea what to think. Child abuse is never ok and the fact that you support this man is stunning. I have read his book and found it informative and interesting . I will ignore your other comments as he is a respected Sunday Telegraph columnist . Unless someone is convicted in a court of law of the offences to which you refer I simply ignore them and assume that it is just an attempt to blacken their name . He is spot on with his comments on Asbestos . Sometimes the truth hurts . Not according to the HSE who have rubbished his claims.. on what basis do you say he is spot on, what evidence do you have that the HSE and other scientists are wrong and he is right..?" It is all documented in his book. From memory there is a chapter devoted to it . A lot of asbestos is contained within cement and as such there is no risk. For a detailed analysis you will need to buy the book. I have thrown my copy away . | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" However I do not think anyone has said that it is cool to ignore facts and evidence . However there is a limit to how much time can be spent researching information. If I am installing a new central heating boiler and deciding which model to buy I am quite happy to rely on either Which or a Central Heating engineer giving me advice . I have no need to do detailed research of the facts . In any event I have probably built up a detailed knowledge of them through life experience or my own use of them as I own both condensing , non condensing , combi and oiler fired boilers . I have also installed and designed a complete system myself . I will endeavour to keep my knowledge of boilers up to date and see no necessity to constantly updated facts and evidence . When you say that I ignore facts and evidence , you may be slightly confused . On point of principle I refuse to look at any source evidence quoted on these forums for two reasons . a. The link is probably biased in order to prove the posters point . b. Some posters are simply lazy and use a link to avoid summarising the content of the link. c. I consider it patronising to post links . If I need to research a topic I am capable of doing it myself without being told how to do it . Vice versa , I never post any links to any topics on which I comment . d. I am happy to accept any posters comments at face value . It is hardly going to make any difference to anyone's life whether the content of the post is true or false . We are in Cyberland , not the real world . I go to evening classes in French and many of the students are talented and multi lingual. I may not be as talented as other students but the lecturer has always been extremely polite and helpfull. As far as I am aware she has never called my work shute though we only speak in French as communication in English is discouraged . We have even discussed the USA election result in French and learnt the relevant key words. I find it strange that you consider yourself to have a civic duty to protect other members from reading what you class as bull shit . Opinions which you personally class as bullshit may be very valid to others . I like to exercise self control and refrain from making such remarks towards other members posts. By reading a number of different opinions from various sources I am satisfied that there is like to be gained from looking at facts and evidence . If I need an opinion on Global warming I would not have time to spend trawling facts and evidence . The opinion of Christopher Brooker is good enough for me . On other issues I can get sufficient information from the three daily papers which I purchase . I can store what information is necessary in my head. Do you mean Christopher Booker instead of Brooker. I certainly hope not because Christopher Booker has been exposed as a serial liar on many occassions. From lying about child abuse, global warming, the dangers of cigarettes and asbestos. He has supported paedophiles and been found guilty of liable. If this is the man you defer to on your opinions on any of these matters then you should have a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself if maybe you shouldnt trust someone that supports paedophiles and tries to cover up child abuse. Honest to God, first I thought you were misinformed, then I thought you just werent smart enough to understand the topics at hand....now I have no idea what to think. Child abuse is never ok and the fact that you support this man is stunning. I have read his book and found it informative and interesting . I will ignore your other comments as he is a respected Sunday Telegraph columnist . Unless someone is convicted in a court of law of the offences to which you refer I simply ignore them and assume that it is just an attempt to blacken their name . He is spot on with his comments on Asbestos . Sometimes the truth hurts . Not according to the HSE who have rubbished his claims.. on what basis do you say he is spot on, what evidence do you have that the HSE and other scientists are wrong and he is right..? It is all documented in his book. From memory there is a chapter devoted to it . A lot of asbestos is contained within cement and as such there is no risk. For a detailed analysis you will need to buy the book. I have thrown my copy away . " your basing your 'hes spot on' on a book you've thrown away.. 
and for which the HSE has rubbished him and his opinions several times over..
btw there are many types of asbestos and not by a long stretch are they all in concrete..
you know when concrete is crushed it produces dust..
google booker's name Pat, there is a link on Wikipedia to him championing the case of Marie Black who is a convicted paedophile amongst 23 other charges of child abuse.. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" However I do not think anyone has said that it is cool to ignore facts and evidence . However there is a limit to how much time can be spent researching information. If I am installing a new central heating boiler and deciding which model to buy I am quite happy to rely on either Which or a Central Heating engineer giving me advice . I have no need to do detailed research of the facts . In any event I have probably built up a detailed knowledge of them through life experience or my own use of them as I own both condensing , non condensing , combi and oiler fired boilers . I have also installed and designed a complete system myself . I will endeavour to keep my knowledge of boilers up to date and see no necessity to constantly updated facts and evidence . When you say that I ignore facts and evidence , you may be slightly confused . On point of principle I refuse to look at any source evidence quoted on these forums for two reasons . a. The link is probably biased in order to prove the posters point . b. Some posters are simply lazy and use a link to avoid summarising the content of the link. c. I consider it patronising to post links . If I need to research a topic I am capable of doing it myself without being told how to do it . Vice versa , I never post any links to any topics on which I comment . d. I am happy to accept any posters comments at face value . It is hardly going to make any difference to anyone's life whether the content of the post is true or false . We are in Cyberland , not the real world . I go to evening classes in French and many of the students are talented and multi lingual. I may not be as talented as other students but the lecturer has always been extremely polite and helpfull. As far as I am aware she has never called my work shute though we only speak in French as communication in English is discouraged . We have even discussed the USA election result in French and learnt the relevant key words. I find it strange that you consider yourself to have a civic duty to protect other members from reading what you class as bull shit . Opinions which you personally class as bullshit may be very valid to others . I like to exercise self control and refrain from making such remarks towards other members posts. By reading a number of different opinions from various sources I am satisfied that there is like to be gained from looking at facts and evidence . If I need an opinion on Global warming I would not have time to spend trawling facts and evidence . The opinion of Christopher Brooker is good enough for me . On other issues I can get sufficient information from the three daily papers which I purchase . I can store what information is necessary in my head. Do you mean Christopher Booker instead of Brooker. I certainly hope not because Christopher Booker has been exposed as a serial liar on many occassions. From lying about child abuse, global warming, the dangers of cigarettes and asbestos. He has supported paedophiles and been found guilty of liable. If this is the man you defer to on your opinions on any of these matters then you should have a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself if maybe you shouldnt trust someone that supports paedophiles and tries to cover up child abuse. Honest to God, first I thought you were misinformed, then I thought you just werent smart enough to understand the topics at hand....now I have no idea what to think. Child abuse is never ok and the fact that you support this man is stunning. I have read his book and found it informative and interesting . I will ignore your other comments as he is a respected Sunday Telegraph columnist . Unless someone is convicted in a court of law of the offences to which you refer I simply ignore them and assume that it is just an attempt to blacken their name . He is spot on with his comments on Asbestos . Sometimes the truth hurts . Not according to the HSE who have rubbished his claims.. on what basis do you say he is spot on, what evidence do you have that the HSE and other scientists are wrong and he is right..? It is all documented in his book. From memory there is a chapter devoted to it . A lot of asbestos is contained within cement and as such there is no risk. For a detailed analysis you will need to buy the book. I have thrown my copy away . your basing your 'hes spot on' on a book you've thrown away..
and for which the HSE has rubbished him and his opinions several times over..
btw there are many types of asbestos and not by a long stretch are they all in concrete..
you know when concrete is crushed it produces dust..
google booker's name Pat, there is a link on Wikipedia to him championing the case of Marie Black who is a convicted paedophile amongst 23 other charges of child abuse.."I have already googled it and returned no results . Wikipedia is an inaccurate source of information and anything can be posted on it . I assume that the person you are referring to is a lady . | |||
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" . I will ignore your other comments as he is a respected Sunday Telegraph columnist . Unless someone is convicted in a court of law of the offences to which you refer I simply ignore them and assume that it is just an attempt to blacken their name . So youre choosing to ignore facts and wont look into them yourself. Youve decided theres no possibility any of your opinions are wrong and that youre willing to overlook support of child abuse. Think that says everything about you as a person. I have googled the issue to which you refer and it is not mentioned in any of the results returned so I will assume that is just an attempt by someone to blacken his name . I like to treat people fairly and not just accept incorrect information which may damage their reputation. I am sure that he has quite a few enemies within the climate change industry . " Marie Black was convicted of r@pe, molestation, child abuse and soliciting minors for sexual activities. After she was convicted Booker fought for her and wrote in defence of her having access to children. If you cant find the mans own articles where he tries to whitewash over her crimes in support of a convicted paedophile having custody of an innocent child then you not only need an education in economics, math and ethics but also in basic internet use. Your support of this paedophiles advocate is vile. | |||
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" However I do not think anyone has said that it is cool to ignore facts and evidence . However there is a limit to how much time can be spent researching information. If I am installing a new central heating boiler and deciding which model to buy I am quite happy to rely on either Which or a Central Heating engineer giving me advice . I have no need to do detailed research of the facts . In any event I have probably built up a detailed knowledge of them through life experience or my own use of them as I own both condensing , non condensing , combi and oiler fired boilers . I have also installed and designed a complete system myself . I will endeavour to keep my knowledge of boilers up to date and see no necessity to constantly updated facts and evidence . When you say that I ignore facts and evidence , you may be slightly confused . On point of principle I refuse to look at any source evidence quoted on these forums for two reasons . a. The link is probably biased in order to prove the posters point . b. Some posters are simply lazy and use a link to avoid summarising the content of the link. c. I consider it patronising to post links . If I need to research a topic I am capable of doing it myself without being told how to do it . Vice versa , I never post any links to any topics on which I comment . d. I am happy to accept any posters comments at face value . It is hardly going to make any difference to anyone's life whether the content of the post is true or false . We are in Cyberland , not the real world . I go to evening classes in French and many of the students are talented and multi lingual. I may not be as talented as other students but the lecturer has always been extremely polite and helpfull. As far as I am aware she has never called my work shute though we only speak in French as communication in English is discouraged . We have even discussed the USA election result in French and learnt the relevant key words. I find it strange that you consider yourself to have a civic duty to protect other members from reading what you class as bull shit . Opinions which you personally class as bullshit may be very valid to others . I like to exercise self control and refrain from making such remarks towards other members posts. By reading a number of different opinions from various sources I am satisfied that there is like to be gained from looking at facts and evidence . If I need an opinion on Global warming I would not have time to spend trawling facts and evidence . The opinion of Christopher Brooker is good enough for me . On other issues I can get sufficient information from the three daily papers which I purchase . I can store what information is necessary in my head. Do you mean Christopher Booker instead of Brooker. I certainly hope not because Christopher Booker has been exposed as a serial liar on many occassions. From lying about child abuse, global warming, the dangers of cigarettes and asbestos. He has supported paedophiles and been found guilty of liable. If this is the man you defer to on your opinions on any of these matters then you should have a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself if maybe you shouldnt trust someone that supports paedophiles and tries to cover up child abuse. Honest to God, first I thought you were misinformed, then I thought you just werent smart enough to understand the topics at hand....now I have no idea what to think. Child abuse is never ok and the fact that you support this man is stunning. I have read his book and found it informative and interesting . I will ignore your other comments as he is a respected Sunday Telegraph columnist . Unless someone is convicted in a court of law of the offences to which you refer I simply ignore them and assume that it is just an attempt to blacken their name . He is spot on with his comments on Asbestos . Sometimes the truth hurts . Not according to the HSE who have rubbished his claims.. on what basis do you say he is spot on, what evidence do you have that the HSE and other scientists are wrong and he is right..? It is all documented in his book. From memory there is a chapter devoted to it . A lot of asbestos is contained within cement and as such there is no risk. For a detailed analysis you will need to buy the book. I have thrown my copy away . your basing your 'hes spot on' on a book you've thrown away..
and for which the HSE has rubbished him and his opinions several times over..
btw there are many types of asbestos and not by a long stretch are they all in concrete..
you know when concrete is crushed it produces dust..
google booker's name Pat, there is a link on Wikipedia to him championing the case of Marie Black who is a convicted paedophile amongst 23 other charges of child abuse.. I have already googled it and returned no results . Wikipedia is an inaccurate source of information and anything can be posted on it . I assume that the person you are referring to is a lady . "any search engine will link you to several sources where you can read about what Booker said in relation to convicted paedophile Marie Black.. his comments are extremely disturbing.. he is as wrong on this as he is on Asbestos.. | |||
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" any search engine will link you to several sources where you can read about what Booker said in relation to convicted paedophile Marie Black.. his comments are extremely disturbing.. he is as wrong on this as he is on Asbestos.." Pat has no interest in reality. Hes happy to side with advocates for paedophiles. Any idiot can find Bookers articles, his own articles not anyone elses words, where he lies and covers up her child abuse to try and help her get custody of another innocent child. Pats happy to side with this man and has already said that he doesnt look at any other sources on global warming and all he needs is this paedophile advocates opinion. It doesnt matter that Bookers been proven a liar and has no regard for the safety of children, he doesnt like the EU and doesnt believe in global warming, so its ok if he supports leaving innocent children in an abusers hands. | |||
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" . I will ignore your other comments as he is a respected Sunday Telegraph columnist . Unless someone is convicted in a court of law of the offences to which you refer I simply ignore them and assume that it is just an attempt to blacken their name . So youre choosing to ignore facts and wont look into them yourself. Youve decided theres no possibility any of your opinions are wrong and that youre willing to overlook support of child abuse. Think that says everything about you as a person. I have googled the issue to which you refer and it is not mentioned in any of the results returned so I will assume that is just an attempt by someone to blacken his name . I like to treat people fairly and not just accept incorrect information which may damage their reputation. I am sure that he has quite a few enemies within the climate change industry . Marie Black was convicted of r@pe, molestation, child abuse and soliciting minors for sexual activities. After she was convicted Booker fought for her and wrote in defence of her having access to children. If you cant find the mans own articles where he tries to whitewash over her crimes in support of a convicted paedophile having custody of an innocent child then you not only need an education in economics, math and ethics but also in basic internet use. Your support of this paedophiles advocate is vile." You appear to have a very distorted and totally unbalanced view . From a very brief review of the column written by Booker it is apparent that he is supporting the mothers legal rights ) . He has never indicated that he either supported or sympathised with any of the offences to which you refer ( assuming that you reporting is accurate as my search did not return any of the convictions referred to ) . It is rather insulting to even suggest that Booker ( or any other person ) would either approve of defend the offences committed . ( not withstanding that the alleged criminal is a lady ) Supporting someones legal rights is an entirely different concept to supporting the offences of which they are convicted | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" . I will ignore your other comments as he is a respected Sunday Telegraph columnist . Unless someone is convicted in a court of law of the offences to which you refer I simply ignore them and assume that it is just an attempt to blacken their name . So youre choosing to ignore facts and wont look into them yourself. Youve decided theres no possibility any of your opinions are wrong and that youre willing to overlook support of child abuse. Think that says everything about you as a person. I have googled the issue to which you refer and it is not mentioned in any of the results returned so I will assume that is just an attempt by someone to blacken his name . I like to treat people fairly and not just accept incorrect information which may damage their reputation. I am sure that he has quite a few enemies within the climate change industry . Marie Black was convicted of r@pe, molestation, child abuse and soliciting minors for sexual activities. After she was convicted Booker fought for her and wrote in defence of her having access to children. If you cant find the mans own articles where he tries to whitewash over her crimes in support of a convicted paedophile having custody of an innocent child then you not only need an education in economics, math and ethics but also in basic internet use. Your support of this paedophiles advocate is vile. You appear to have a very distorted and totally unbalanced view . From a very brief review of the column written by Booker it is apparent that he is supporting the mothers legal rights ) . He has never indicated that he either supported or sympathised with any of the offences to which you refer ( assuming that you reporting is accurate as my search did not return any of the convictions referred to ) . It is rather insulting to even suggest that Booker ( or any other person ) would either approve of defend the offences committed . ( not withstanding that the alleged criminal is a lady ) Supporting someones legal rights is an entirely different concept to supporting the offences of which they are convicted " Yes or no: Should a convicted paedophile found guilty of 26 offences against multiple children have custody of more children? Yes or no: Is it dishonest to report on social services removing a child from the care of a convicted paedophile because of those convictions, but never mention those convictions and to say that the reason was domestic abuse from the ex husband? | |||
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"Just curious to know if the parents of their unemployed children in Italy Spain, Greece etc think that the EU is a good idea?" I guess you could ask the parents of unemployed children in America, Argentina or China a similar thing  | |||
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"Just curious to know if the parents of their unemployed children in Italy Spain, Greece etc think that the EU is a good idea?" As every country has unemployment, it's obviously not just because of the EU. Why is it that if there is anything bad that happens in a member state its blamed on the EU and not on the government of the member state? | |||
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"Pat Hope you remember us from Cap d'Adge. Can I ask you a question... Would you have gone ahead with your apartment purchase in Cap d'Agde today. I myself have no idea what will happen when we exit but as my job takes me in and around Europe I feel saddened, that's not based on share prices, currency fluctuations or free movement of labour (funny really, I never think any form of travel restriction will impact on me),just a personal feeling, I've got used to thinking I'm European but this does not impact on me being very proud of being British. Friends and work colleagues in Europe seem to have as much diversity in their opinions as people have shown on this forum, well maybe not as heated... Mostly they are watching to see what happens, like us, they haven't a clue. If the pound falls away, I'll still go on holiday, maybe whine and moan when buy drinks in Jonny Wokkers but I'll still buy them. Have fun on holiday. Liz and Paul. " Hello . The forums might not be the best place to reply . Most posters have very fixed opinions and these are simply repeated time and time again . I always avoid having any discussions on politics when on holidays . In real life most people have little interest in politics , probably too busy doing other things . I would have still bought the apartment , yes . It has a stunning view and gives me a bit of luxury when in France . Travelling abroad is as you say slightly more expensive now but the Euro is not that much below the rate at which it was exchanging three years ago . I do not think that leaving the EU will make much difference to travel . It would not be in anyones interest to make holiday travel more difficult . In addition we will still need to buy goods from the EU , and they in turn from us . I go to French evening classes now and most of the students ( a lot younger than me ) and multi lingual Europeans . They are not unduly concerned . Life goes own and at worse we are only talking about a few tweaks to duties . Each country will still have to co - operate so I do not see any real issues . Hopefully you will be still be able to travel unhindered and keep up you friendships with your fellow European workers . Best wishes Patrick | |||
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"Just curious to know if the parents of their unemployed children in Italy Spain, Greece etc think that the EU is a good idea? As every country has unemployment, it's obviously not just because of the EU. Why is it that if there is anything bad that happens in a member state its blamed on the EU and not on the government of the member state?" And what binds these countries? | |||
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" . I will ignore your other comments as he is a respected Sunday Telegraph columnist . Unless someone is convicted in a court of law of the offences to which you refer I simply ignore them and assume that it is just an attempt to blacken their name . So youre choosing to ignore facts and wont look into them yourself. Youve decided theres no possibility any of your opinions are wrong and that youre willing to overlook support of child abuse. Think that says everything about you as a person. I have googled the issue to which you refer and it is not mentioned in any of the results returned so I will assume that is just an attempt by someone to blacken his name . I like to treat people fairly and not just accept incorrect information which may damage their reputation. I am sure that he has quite a few enemies within the climate change industry . Marie Black was convicted of r@pe, molestation, child abuse and soliciting minors for sexual activities. After she was convicted Booker fought for her and wrote in defence of her having access to children. If you cant find the mans own articles where he tries to whitewash over her crimes in support of a convicted paedophile having custody of an innocent child then you not only need an education in economics, math and ethics but also in basic internet use. Your support of this paedophiles advocate is vile. You appear to have a very distorted and totally unbalanced view . From a very brief review of the column written by Booker it is apparent that he is supporting the mothers legal rights ) . He has never indicated that he either supported or sympathised with any of the offences to which you refer ( assuming that you reporting is accurate as my search did not return any of the convictions referred to ) . It is rather insulting to even suggest that Booker ( or any other person ) would either approve of defend the offences committed . ( not withstanding that the alleged criminal is a lady ) Supporting someones legal rights is an entirely different concept to supporting the offences of which they are convicted Yes or no: Should a convicted paedophile found guilty of 26 offences against multiple children have custody of more children? Yes or no: Is it dishonest to report on social services removing a child from the care of a convicted paedophile because of those convictions, but never mention those convictions and to say that the reason was domestic abuse from the ex husband?" I will not be answering your questions as I have insufficient knowledge of the case which you refer . What I can say is that he is a highly respected journalist and many members of the climate change lobby detest his views because their funding is to a certain extent dependent on the public believing their research | |||
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"Just curious to know if the parents of their unemployed children in Italy Spain, Greece etc think that the EU is a good idea? As every country has unemployment, it's obviously not just because of the EU. Why is it that if there is anything bad that happens in a member state its blamed on the EU and not on the government of the member state? And what binds these countries? " What binds every country in the world? Certainly not the EU. | |||
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" . I will ignore your other comments as he is a respected Sunday Telegraph columnist . Unless someone is convicted in a court of law of the offences to which you refer I simply ignore them and assume that it is just an attempt to blacken their name . So youre choosing to ignore facts and wont look into them yourself. Youve decided theres no possibility any of your opinions are wrong and that youre willing to overlook support of child abuse. Think that says everything about you as a person. I have googled the issue to which you refer and it is not mentioned in any of the results returned so I will assume that is just an attempt by someone to blacken his name . I like to treat people fairly and not just accept incorrect information which may damage their reputation. I am sure that he has quite a few enemies within the climate change industry . Marie Black was convicted of r@pe, molestation, child abuse and soliciting minors for sexual activities. After she was convicted Booker fought for her and wrote in defence of her having access to children. If you cant find the mans own articles where he tries to whitewash over her crimes in support of a convicted paedophile having custody of an innocent child then you not only need an education in economics, math and ethics but also in basic internet use. Your support of this paedophiles advocate is vile. You appear to have a very distorted and totally unbalanced view . From a very brief review of the column written by Booker it is apparent that he is supporting the mothers legal rights ) . He has never indicated that he either supported or sympathised with any of the offences to which you refer ( assuming that you reporting is accurate as my search did not return any of the convictions referred to ) . It is rather insulting to even suggest that Booker ( or any other person ) would either approve of defend the offences committed . ( not withstanding that the alleged criminal is a lady ) Supporting someones legal rights is an entirely different concept to supporting the offences of which they are convicted Yes or no: Should a convicted paedophile found guilty of 26 offences against multiple children have custody of more children? Yes or no: Is it dishonest to report on social services removing a child from the care of a convicted paedophile because of those convictions, but never mention those convictions and to say that the reason was domestic abuse from the ex husband?" I am surprised that someone should attempt to break down a complex case to yes or no answers . The only people with sufficient knowledge to answer such a question would be * Police * Social Worker * Solicitor * Other family members * Church ( if they were a member ) To suggest that there is a yes or no answer on such a complex issue is bordering on the ridiculous . Without access to all the relevant case notes and issues concerned how would anyone make such a decision | |||
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" I will not be answering your questions as I have insufficient knowledge of the case which you refer . What I can say is that he is a highly respected journalist and many members of the climate change lobby detest his views because their funding is to a certain extent dependent on the public believing their research " Wow. Youre so stubborn and hate some government administrators so much that you cant bring yourself to say that paedophiles shouldnt have custody of small children. Can you imagine if the EU president took that position? You'd tear strips off him and rightly so. You refuse to read links posted here but maybe your conscience will actually kick in and you'll read this one about the crimes of the woman youre talking about http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/marie-black-sentenced-to-life-in-prison-for-utterly-depraved-rape-and-sexual-abuse-of-children-over-a6671181.html To summarise: For ten years, 3 small boys and two girls were passed around a child sex ring run by this woman. They abused them week after week,month after month, year after year. These children were offered up as raffle prizes to their group of abusers and sometimes as prizes for games of cards. Id prefer you were some bored school kid trolling us instead of an adult whose prioritises hating the EU over the safety of defenceless children. Your indifference to real suffering, not to mention your mentioning of her being a "lady" as if that was somehow a defence. I dont know who you associate with but that is no lady, that is a heartless monster that should never be alone with children again. But its obvious what youre M.O. is. You'll deflect and dodge and you have your "principle" of not reading links on forums. Its a pity your principles dont stretch as far as disowning the man who advocated this abuser of children getting custody of more. Honestly the EU or global warming isnt the issue in this conversation. Its whats wrong with you as a human being that you cant say paedophiles who abused children for a decade shouldnt have access to more children. Some principles you have... | |||
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" . I will ignore your other comments as he is a respected Sunday Telegraph columnist . Unless someone is convicted in a court of law of the offences to which you refer I simply ignore them and assume that it is just an attempt to blacken their name . So youre choosing to ignore facts and wont look into them yourself. Youve decided theres no possibility any of your opinions are wrong and that youre willing to overlook support of child abuse. Think that says everything about you as a person. I have googled the issue to which you refer and it is not mentioned in any of the results returned so I will assume that is just an attempt by someone to blacken his name . I like to treat people fairly and not just accept incorrect information which may damage their reputation. I am sure that he has quite a few enemies within the climate change industry . Marie Black was convicted of r@pe, molestation, child abuse and soliciting minors for sexual activities. After she was convicted Booker fought for her and wrote in defence of her having access to children. If you cant find the mans own articles where he tries to whitewash over her crimes in support of a convicted paedophile having custody of an innocent child then you not only need an education in economics, math and ethics but also in basic internet use. Your support of this paedophiles advocate is vile. You appear to have a very distorted and totally unbalanced view . From a very brief review of the column written by Booker it is apparent that he is supporting the mothers legal rights ) . He has never indicated that he either supported or sympathised with any of the offences to which you refer ( assuming that you reporting is accurate as my search did not return any of the convictions referred to ) . It is rather insulting to even suggest that Booker ( or any other person ) would either approve of defend the offences committed . ( not withstanding that the alleged criminal is a lady ) Supporting someones legal rights is an entirely different concept to supporting the offences of which they are convicted Yes or no: Should a convicted paedophile found guilty of 26 offences against multiple children have custody of more children? Yes or no: Is it dishonest to report on social services removing a child from the care of a convicted paedophile because of those convictions, but never mention those convictions and to say that the reason was domestic abuse from the ex husband? I am surprised that someone should attempt to break down a complex case to yes or no answers . The only people with sufficient knowledge to answer such a question would be * Police * Social Worker * Solicitor * Other family members * Church ( if they were a member ) To suggest that there is a yes or no answer on such a complex issue is bordering on the ridiculous . Without access to all the relevant case notes and issues concerned how would anyone make such a decision "The police arrested her. The crown prosecution charged her. Her victims testified in open court against her. A jury convicted her. A judge sentenced her. Social services tried to rescue that child from her grasp. She abused, r@ped, molested and passed around 3 little boys and 2 little girls in a paedophile ring for a decade. Theres no complexities here. Any right thinking person knows the right thing to do. You and Booker seem to think that theres a grey area where paedophiles should have children in their home..... | |||
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"Although I have to laugh at the absurdity of your views. Brexit: Yes or no. Thats a perfectly valid decision to ask people to make. Should an unrepentent convicted child sex offender who abused children herself for a decade and raffled them off to her friends for profit be able to have custody of small children...well thats just too complex to be a yes or no question. Honestly Pat, whats wrong with you? Have you any shred of empathy for what those children went through or what that other child could have been subject to if that monster had kept custody? Seriously, its a genuine question. What is wrong with you that your saying that there would ever be a possibility for this person to have a child in her care again?" I think I will leave any decisions relating to the highly complex issues to which you refer to those who extensive experience in the matter . Namely . Social workers , the police , solicitors , barristers , family members , and the church ( if they were a member of one ) Their knowledge of the issues to which you refer are vastly superior to mine . I am not quite certain as to why you would expect me to have sufficient knowledge to to come to a conclusion in a complex child access case . This is a case where the decision needs to be made by people with detailed experience and full access to the case notes . Some decisions are best left to the experts . To suggest that I would have sufficient knowledge to make a decision in a case regarding a mothers access to her children is simply ridiculous . I do not even know what the basic guidelines are in cases such as this ( I expect very few people do ) It is a highly unusual case where only those with a detailed knowledge of it are in a position to made a decision . | |||
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"Although I have to laugh at the absurdity of your views. Brexit: Yes or no. Thats a perfectly valid decision to ask people to make. Should an unrepentent convicted child sex offender who abused children herself for a decade and raffled them off to her friends for profit be able to have custody of small children...well thats just too complex to be a yes or no question. Honestly Pat, whats wrong with you? Have you any shred of empathy for what those children went through or what that other child could have been subject to if that monster had kept custody? Seriously, its a genuine question. What is wrong with you that your saying that there would ever be a possibility for this person to have a child in her care again? I think I will leave any decisions relating to the highly complex issues to which you refer to those who extensive experience in the matter . Namely . Social workers , the police , solicitors , barristers , family members , and the church ( if they were a member of one ) Their knowledge of the issues to which you refer are vastly superior to mine . I am not quite certain as to why you would expect me to have sufficient knowledge to to come to a conclusion in a complex child access case . This is a case where the decision needs to be made by people with detailed experience and full access to the case notes . Some decisions are best left to the experts . To suggest that I would have sufficient knowledge to make a decision in a case regarding a mothers access to her children is simply ridiculous . I do not even know what the basic guidelines are in cases such as this ( I expect very few people do ) It is a highly unusual case where only those with a detailed knowledge of it are in a position to made a decision . " No its not complex at all. People with an extensive history of sexually abusing the children in their care should not have children in their care. But fine, I try to be open minded. I try to hear all sides. You say its complicated, tell me what complicates it. Tell me why you arent 100% certain that small child shouldnt be put at risk of a lifetime of abuse. And try not to be a coward and say "its complicated" youre not some preteen on facebook updating your relationship status. The argument against her having the child in her care is that shes a long time, habitual child abuser who sold those kids for profit when it suited her and the judge, the police and the social workers all said she should not have kids. As we said way back at the start Booker said social services were wrong. So either theres no argument to be made for her keeping that child which makes it not complicated at all or there is an argument and you can articulate it so we can better understand why youre sympathising with a paedophile having her child taken by social services. | |||
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"Leaving the EU will not effect you going on holiday in any way and I am baffled as to where this idea comes from. I will be retired by the time we leave an hope to travel a bit on hols and do not expect any problems exept the joy of showing my British passport. I am worried that there will be some high inflation for a couple of years but it will settle down in time as we begin to prosper. If you have children they will grow up in a more successful happier Britain,this will not happen at first but in the long run all will be good. Have you not noticed that with the drop in the value of the pound, trips abroad are now 15-20% more expensive?? There's only one way the pound's going and that's down the pan. So, your assertion that travel will not be affected is total rubbish. This year I shall have to have one holiday less than usual because of the pound's drop from $1.49 to $1.22.....thanks a bunch you brexiteers. Just for you, here is the average amount of euros your pound could have bought over the last decade. 31 Dec 2008 1.259467 31 Dec 2009 1.12246 31 Dec 2010 1.165737 31 Dec 2011 1.15258 31 Dec 2012 1.233263 31 Dec 2013 1.177964 31 Dec 2014 1.240494 31 Dec 2015 1.377982 31 Dec 2016 1.224833 10 Mar 2017 1.165218 The average over the last decade has been about €1.21 to the pound. So in other words you got one extra holiday last year." Very interesting.....I was talking dollars not Euros btw, so your point doesnt stand (but thanks anyway) | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my son Same here, but for my children Unfortunately too many can't comprehend the selfless acts parents like us make so in their ignorance throw insults as they do not have the intellect to do anything else.
But still no meaningful or even hopeful ideas as to how your children might be materially better off outside of the EU? The one thing you absolutely have done is to clip their wings and restrict their ability to live, study and work in another EU country. Also, considering that the EU and not any national government for decades has provided the bulk of funding for high level scientific research at top UK universities it could also be said that Should they go to University in the UK, the quality of that study could well be detrimentally affected.
Depends on your interpretation of material. Unlike me you are obviously a capitalist only worried about yourself and your wealth. I see a far bigger picture where quality of life is od paramount importance. My children will be able to travel and study anywhere they want in the world so I do not understand your point on that issue. But why would they want to study abroad when this country will offer the best education in the world."People might want to study abroad to broaden their minds.....plenty on this thread should do it as they clearly need it | |||
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"Although I have to laugh at the absurdity of your views. Brexit: Yes or no. Thats a perfectly valid decision to ask people to make. Should an unrepentent convicted child sex offender who abused children herself for a decade and raffled them off to her friends for profit be able to have custody of small children...well thats just too complex to be a yes or no question. Honestly Pat, whats wrong with you? Have you any shred of empathy for what those children went through or what that other child could have been subject to if that monster had kept custody? Seriously, its a genuine question. What is wrong with you that your saying that there would ever be a possibility for this person to have a child in her care again? I think I will leave any decisions relating to the highly complex issues to which you refer to those who extensive experience in the matter . Namely . Social workers , the police , solicitors , barristers , family members , and the church ( if they were a member of one ) Their knowledge of the issues to which you refer are vastly superior to mine . I am not quite certain as to why you would expect me to have sufficient knowledge to to come to a conclusion in a complex child access case . This is a case where the decision needs to be made by people with detailed experience and full access to the case notes . Some decisions are best left to the experts . To suggest that I would have sufficient knowledge to make a decision in a case regarding a mothers access to her children is simply ridiculous . I do not even know what the basic guidelines are in cases such as this ( I expect very few people do ) It is a highly unusual case where only those with a detailed knowledge of it are in a position to made a decision . No its not complex at all. People with an extensive history of sexually abusing the children in their care should not have children in their care. But fine, I try to be open minded. I try to hear all sides. You say its complicated, tell me what complicates it. Tell me why you arent 100% certain that small child shouldnt be put at risk of a lifetime of abuse. And try not to be a coward and say "its complicated" youre not some preteen on facebook updating your relationship status. The argument against her having the child in her care is that shes a long time, habitual child abuser who sold those kids for profit when it suited her and the judge, the police and the social workers all said she should not have kids. As we said way back at the start Booker said social services were wrong. So either theres no argument to be made for her keeping that child which makes it not complicated at all or there is an argument and you can articulate it so we can better understand why youre sympathising with a paedophile having her child taken by social services." You seem to obsessed with this case. I will leave any comments to the experts on the case . Unlike you I would prefer not to guess an answer on an issue On which my knowledge is low. Decisions on the case and issues to you refer are made by the police , trained social workers , other family members , barristers , solicitors and possibly the church if a member. If made in the court of protection a little of the information is confidential. Anyone who thinks that a decision on a complex matter such as this is or can be made over the Internet is simply living in a world far from reality . I do not have full facts of the case to which you refer and I am pretty confident that no other poster on this forum has either .. As a lot of the decisions are made in secret no one has . | |||
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"Just curious to know if the parents of their unemployed children in Italy Spain, Greece etc think that the EU is a good idea? As every country has unemployment, it's obviously not just because of the EU. Why is it that if there is anything bad that happens in a member state its blamed on the EU and not on the government of the member state? And what binds these countries? What binds every country in the world? Certainly not the EU. " Sorry, I do apologise. I mistakenly thought that this was a thread about Brexit and the EU. | |||
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"Nobody's life will improve. People were sold up the river on a raft of false promises for the sole reason of masking a Tory power struggle. The pound has dropped 20 percent of its value before anything has actually happened. " Just for you, here is the average amount of euros your pound could have bought over the last decade. In April 2015 the IMF, the OECD, the BeE and very many others said that the pound was 'up to 20% overvalued' and was damaging our economy. 31 Dec 2008 1.259467 31 Dec 2009 1.12246 31 Dec 2010 1.165737 31 Dec 2011 1.15258 31 Dec 2012 1.233263 31 Dec 2013 1.177964 31 Dec 2014 1.240494 31 Dec 2015 1.377982 31 Dec 2016 1.224833 10 Mar 2017 1.165218 The average over the last decade has been about €1.21 to the pound. | |||
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"Nobody's life will improve. People were sold up the river on a raft of false promises for the sole reason of masking a Tory power struggle. The pound has dropped 20 percent of its value before anything has actually happened. Just for you, here is the average amount of euros your pound could have bought over the last decade. In April 2015 the IMF, the OECD, the BeE and very many others said that the pound was 'up to 20% overvalued' and was damaging our economy. 31 Dec 2008 1.259467 31 Dec 2009 1.12246 31 Dec 2010 1.165737 31 Dec 2011 1.15258 31 Dec 2012 1.233263 31 Dec 2013 1.177964 31 Dec 2014 1.240494 31 Dec 2015 1.377982 31 Dec 2016 1.224833 10 Mar 2017 1.165218 The average over the last decade has been about €1.21 to the pound." I was in London yesterday, and the place was booming. Shops, restaurants, pubs were all very busy and lots of tourists around spending their money. The 20% devaluation has its advantages (as well as some disadvantages) | |||
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"Nobody's life will improve. People were sold up the river on a raft of false promises for the sole reason of masking a Tory power struggle. The pound has dropped 20 percent of its value before anything has actually happened. Just for you, here is the average amount of euros your pound could have bought over the last decade. In April 2015 the IMF, the OECD, the BeE and very many others said that the pound was 'up to 20% overvalued' and was damaging our economy. 31 Dec 2008 1.259467 31 Dec 2009 1.12246 31 Dec 2010 1.165737 31 Dec 2011 1.15258 31 Dec 2012 1.233263 31 Dec 2013 1.177964 31 Dec 2014 1.240494 31 Dec 2015 1.377982 31 Dec 2016 1.224833 10 Mar 2017 1.165218 The average over the last decade has been about €1.21 to the pound. I was in London yesterday, and the place was booming. Shops, restaurants, pubs were all very busy and lots of tourists around spending their money. The 20% devaluation has its advantages (as well as some disadvantages)" It has proved to be a significant boost to the hospitality and tourist trade. | |||
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"Although I have to laugh at the absurdity of your views. Brexit: Yes or no. Thats a perfectly valid decision to ask people to make. Should an unrepentent convicted child sex offender who abused children herself for a decade and raffled them off to her friends for profit be able to have custody of small children...well thats just too complex to be a yes or no question. Honestly Pat, whats wrong with you? Have you any shred of empathy for what those children went through or what that other child could have been subject to if that monster had kept custody? Seriously, its a genuine question. What is wrong with you that your saying that there would ever be a possibility for this person to have a child in her care again?" Maybe if Which magazine or an unnamed specialist financial publication published the verdict of the cases then he would believe it. I guess the court of law doesn't count in his world. -Matt | |||
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"Although I have to laugh at the absurdity of your views. Brexit: Yes or no. Thats a perfectly valid decision to ask people to make. Should an unrepentent convicted child sex offender who abused children herself for a decade and raffled them off to her friends for profit be able to have custody of small children...well thats just too complex to be a yes or no question. Honestly Pat, whats wrong with you? Have you any shred of empathy for what those children went through or what that other child could have been subject to if that monster had kept custody? Seriously, its a genuine question. What is wrong with you that your saying that there would ever be a possibility for this person to have a child in her care again? I think I will leave any decisions relating to the highly complex issues to which you refer to those who extensive experience in the matter . Namely . Social workers , the police , solicitors , barristers , family members , and the church ( if they were a member of one ) Their knowledge of the issues to which you refer are vastly superior to mine . I am not quite certain as to why you would expect me to have sufficient knowledge to to come to a conclusion in a complex child access case . This is a case where the decision needs to be made by people with detailed experience and full access to the case notes . Some decisions are best left to the experts . To suggest that I would have sufficient knowledge to make a decision in a case regarding a mothers access to her children is simply ridiculous . I do not even know what the basic guidelines are in cases such as this ( I expect very few people do ) It is a highly unusual case where only those with a detailed knowledge of it are in a position to made a decision . " The people with extensive knowledge and experience of this area *have* made a decision. She was convicted. They said she should not have kids in her care. Yet you say that a discredited climate change denier should be believed instead? As i said, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but surely even you can see how absurd the stance above is? -Matt | |||
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"The value of the pound has dropped throughout my lifetime so no suprise if it drops further. The pound once held the position of the dollar - world's number 1 currency. For those old enough to remember £sd " half a dollar " was so called because we got $4 = £1. Ok that goes back to 1930's. In 1966 when England won the world cup we got 11DM to £1 by 2000 that has dropped to 2DM. So I ask the expert's - why does it continue to lose value? Why is it not stable? Why can't it hold its value? Is it because we as a nation are no longer seen as being that influential or important in the globalization plan?" Maybe. The same as the Eurozone | |||
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"After reading all this shite, thank fuck I voted BREXIT " | |||
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"Just curious to know if the parents of their unemployed children in Italy Spain, Greece etc think that the EU is a good idea? As every country has unemployment, it's obviously not just because of the EU. Why is it that if there is anything bad that happens in a member state its blamed on the EU and not on the government of the member state? And what binds these countries? What binds every country in the world? Certainly not the EU. Sorry, I do apologise. I mistakenly thought that this was a thread about Brexit and the EU. " But every country in the world has unemployment, so how can that be the fault of the EU? | |||
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" It might of course be even more important to make the right decision as you have less time in which to correct errors . Who say anything about ignoring publications or information that might disagree . On most decisions in life you will read a number of different opinions and come to a conclusion. I am certain that you could easily locate the two publications to which I refer . You are allowed a free review of certain aspects of them and they are reputable businness publications with no political bias . They are purely geared towards investment advice. But you clearly ignore information that you disagree with. You will still post saying that the stock market is booming despite the fact that its worth less than it was before Brexit. Its not even some controversial opinion, its hard fact that the devaluation is more than the rise in share prices. If % of devaluation is greater than % of rise in share price then its worth less. Inflation should also be factored in but its not even needed to show the markets worth less. And yet you still persist in saying the market has shown improvement because you are now just being hardheaded and refusing to acknowledge that basic maths prove you wrong. Youre no longer arguing opinions youre now arguing that maths are wrong and result in lies. Or are you actually ready to admit that the value of the FTSE has gone down because price rises cant keep up with devaluation?" Let's be honest people have you maths figures and dam lies since the birth of Christ, not that that ever happened to prove disprove their own or someone' elses argument It's all subjective, in or out nobody can predict the future, not even the pikey on Blackpool front can truly do it. What will be will be. But I am glad to free of them mad dictator Tusk and Juncker once and for all | |||
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"Nobody's life will improve. People were sold up the river on a raft of false promises for the sole reason of masking a Tory power struggle. The pound has dropped 20 percent of its value before anything has actually happened. Just for you, here is the average amount of euros your pound could have bought over the last decade. In April 2015 the IMF, the OECD, the BeE and very many others said that the pound was 'up to 20% overvalued' and was damaging our economy. 31 Dec 2008 1.259467 31 Dec 2009 1.12246 31 Dec 2010 1.165737 31 Dec 2011 1.15258 31 Dec 2012 1.233263 31 Dec 2013 1.177964 31 Dec 2014 1.240494 31 Dec 2015 1.377982 31 Dec 2016 1.224833 10 Mar 2017 1.165218 The average over the last decade has been about €1.21 to the pound. I was in London yesterday, and the place was booming. Shops, restaurants, pubs were all very busy and lots of tourists around spending their money. The 20% devaluation has its advantages (as well as some disadvantages) It has proved to be a significant boost to the hospitality and tourist trade. " The UK is a net importer of goods, the £ losing value is bad. | |||
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"Nobody's life will improve. People were sold up the river on a raft of false promises for the sole reason of masking a Tory power struggle. The pound has dropped 20 percent of its value before anything has actually happened. Just for you, here is the average amount of euros your pound could have bought over the last decade. In April 2015 the IMF, the OECD, the BeE and very many others said that the pound was 'up to 20% overvalued' and was damaging our economy. 31 Dec 2008 1.259467 31 Dec 2009 1.12246 31 Dec 2010 1.165737 31 Dec 2011 1.15258 31 Dec 2012 1.233263 31 Dec 2013 1.177964 31 Dec 2014 1.240494 31 Dec 2015 1.377982 31 Dec 2016 1.224833 10 Mar 2017 1.165218 The average over the last decade has been about €1.21 to the pound. I was in London yesterday, and the place was booming. Shops, restaurants, pubs were all very busy and lots of tourists around spending their money. The 20% devaluation has its advantages (as well as some disadvantages) It has proved to be a significant boost to the hospitality and tourist trade. The UK is a net importer of goods, the £ losing value is bad. " . No it,s not | |||
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"Nobody's life will improve. People were sold up the river on a raft of false promises for the sole reason of masking a Tory power struggle. The pound has dropped 20 percent of its value before anything has actually happened. Just for you, here is the average amount of euros your pound could have bought over the last decade. In April 2015 the IMF, the OECD, the BeE and very many others said that the pound was 'up to 20% overvalued' and was damaging our economy. 31 Dec 2008 1.259467 31 Dec 2009 1.12246 31 Dec 2010 1.165737 31 Dec 2011 1.15258 31 Dec 2012 1.233263 31 Dec 2013 1.177964 31 Dec 2014 1.240494 31 Dec 2015 1.377982 31 Dec 2016 1.224833 10 Mar 2017 1.165218 The average over the last decade has been about €1.21 to the pound. I was in London yesterday, and the place was booming. Shops, restaurants, pubs were all very busy and lots of tourists around spending their money. The 20% devaluation has its advantages (as well as some disadvantages) It has proved to be a significant boost to the hospitality and tourist trade. The UK is a net importer of goods, the £ losing value is bad. . No it,s not " The UK isn't a net importer of goods? | |||
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"Nobody's life will improve. People were sold up the river on a raft of false promises for the sole reason of masking a Tory power struggle. The pound has dropped 20 percent of its value before anything has actually happened. Just for you, here is the average amount of euros your pound could have bought over the last decade. In April 2015 the IMF, the OECD, the BeE and very many others said that the pound was 'up to 20% overvalued' and was damaging our economy. 31 Dec 2008 1.259467 31 Dec 2009 1.12246 31 Dec 2010 1.165737 31 Dec 2011 1.15258 31 Dec 2012 1.233263 31 Dec 2013 1.177964 31 Dec 2014 1.240494 31 Dec 2015 1.377982 31 Dec 2016 1.224833 10 Mar 2017 1.165218 The average over the last decade has been about €1.21 to the pound. I was in London yesterday, and the place was booming. Shops, restaurants, pubs were all very busy and lots of tourists around spending their money. The 20% devaluation has its advantages (as well as some disadvantages) It has proved to be a significant boost to the hospitality and tourist trade. The UK is a net importer of goods, the £ losing value is bad. . No it,s not The UK isn't a net importer of goods? " Would it be good if we were a net exporter of goods or at least narrowed that gap? What would help us to do this? | |||
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"Nobody's life will improve. People were sold up the river on a raft of false promises for the sole reason of masking a Tory power struggle. The pound has dropped 20 percent of its value before anything has actually happened. Just for you, here is the average amount of euros your pound could have bought over the last decade. In April 2015 the IMF, the OECD, the BeE and very many others said that the pound was 'up to 20% overvalued' and was damaging our economy. 31 Dec 2008 1.259467 31 Dec 2009 1.12246 31 Dec 2010 1.165737 31 Dec 2011 1.15258 31 Dec 2012 1.233263 31 Dec 2013 1.177964 31 Dec 2014 1.240494 31 Dec 2015 1.377982 31 Dec 2016 1.224833 10 Mar 2017 1.165218 The average over the last decade has been about €1.21 to the pound. I was in London yesterday, and the place was booming. Shops, restaurants, pubs were all very busy and lots of tourists around spending their money. The 20% devaluation has its advantages (as well as some disadvantages) It has proved to be a significant boost to the hospitality and tourist trade. The UK is a net importer of goods, the £ losing value is bad. . No it,s not The UK isn't a net importer of goods? Would it be good if we were a net exporter of goods or at least narrowed that gap? What would help us to do this?" Not leaving a massive trading block on our doorstep? Crazy, I know. But just a thought
-Matt | |||
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"Nobody's life will improve. People were sold up the river on a raft of false promises for the sole reason of masking a Tory power struggle. The pound has dropped 20 percent of its value before anything has actually happened. Just for you, here is the average amount of euros your pound could have bought over the last decade. In April 2015 the IMF, the OECD, the BeE and very many others said that the pound was 'up to 20% overvalued' and was damaging our economy. 31 Dec 2008 1.259467 31 Dec 2009 1.12246 31 Dec 2010 1.165737 31 Dec 2011 1.15258 31 Dec 2012 1.233263 31 Dec 2013 1.177964 31 Dec 2014 1.240494 31 Dec 2015 1.377982 31 Dec 2016 1.224833 10 Mar 2017 1.165218 The average over the last decade has been about €1.21 to the pound. I was in London yesterday, and the place was booming. Shops, restaurants, pubs were all very busy and lots of tourists around spending their money. The 20% devaluation has its advantages (as well as some disadvantages) It has proved to be a significant boost to the hospitality and tourist trade. The UK is a net importer of goods, the £ losing value is bad. . No it,s not The UK isn't a net importer of goods? Would it be good if we were a net exporter of goods or at least narrowed that gap? What would help us to do this?" Walking away from our biggest customer and having a free trade deal with india and China, the world's factory, that will help, right?
Jesus, this forum is like Economics 101 with the the cookie monster and the count! | |||
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"Nobody's life will improve. People were sold up the river on a raft of false promises for the sole reason of masking a Tory power struggle. The pound has dropped 20 percent of its value before anything has actually happened. Just for you, here is the average amount of euros your pound could have bought over the last decade. In April 2015 the IMF, the OECD, the BeE and very many others said that the pound was 'up to 20% overvalued' and was damaging our economy. 31 Dec 2008 1.259467 31 Dec 2009 1.12246 31 Dec 2010 1.165737 31 Dec 2011 1.15258 31 Dec 2012 1.233263 31 Dec 2013 1.177964 31 Dec 2014 1.240494 31 Dec 2015 1.377982 31 Dec 2016 1.224833 10 Mar 2017 1.165218 The average over the last decade has been about €1.21 to the pound. I was in London yesterday, and the place was booming. Shops, restaurants, pubs were all very busy and lots of tourists around spending their money. The 20% devaluation has its advantages (as well as some disadvantages) It has proved to be a significant boost to the hospitality and tourist trade. The UK is a net importer of goods, the £ losing value is bad. . No it,s not The UK isn't a net importer of goods? Would it be good if we were a net exporter of goods or at least narrowed that gap? What would help us to do this? Walking away from our biggest customer and having a free trade deal with india and China, the world's factory, that will help, right?
Jesus, this forum is like Economics 101 with the the cookie monster and the count! "We ar walking away from nobody. And the rest of the world is our biggest customer, not the EU | |||
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"I've tried to read the majority of posts but failed to see any real reasoning of how life will improve after brexit. Long term we may be better off but in the interim there will be a lot of pain, things will cost more simply because companies have an excuse to charge more. Unfortunately some families will suffer and the effects will be long lasting. Overall I don't see much changing the government love red tape so many perceived freedoms will not appear. Ginger" Indeed. This thread has meandered quite a bit. But yet no one has managed to actually answer the OPs question of what will be actually, specifically better when we leave the EU. 
-Matt | |||
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"Although I have to laugh at the absurdity of your views. Brexit: Yes or no. Thats a perfectly valid decision to ask people to make. Should an unrepentent convicted child sex offender who abused children herself for a decade and raffled them off to her friends for profit be able to have custody of small children...well thats just too complex to be a yes or no question. Honestly Pat, whats wrong with you? Have you any shred of empathy for what those children went through or what that other child could have been subject to if that monster had kept custody? Seriously, its a genuine question. What is wrong with you that your saying that there would ever be a possibility for this person to have a child in her care again? I think I will leave any decisions relating to the highly complex issues to which you refer to those who extensive experience in the matter . Namely . Social workers , the police , solicitors , barristers , family members , and the church ( if they were a member of one ) Their knowledge of the issues to which you refer are vastly superior to mine . I am not quite certain as to why you would expect me to have sufficient knowledge to to come to a conclusion in a complex child access case . This is a case where the decision needs to be made by people with detailed experience and full access to the case notes . Some decisions are best left to the experts . To suggest that I would have sufficient knowledge to make a decision in a case regarding a mothers access to her children is simply ridiculous . I do not even know what the basic guidelines are in cases such as this ( I expect very few people do ) It is a highly unusual case where only those with a detailed knowledge of it are in a position to made a decision . The people with extensive knowledge and experience of this area *have* made a decision. She was convicted. They said she should not have kids in her care. Yet you say that a discredited climate change denier should be believed instead? As i said, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but surely even you can see how absurd the stance above is? -Matt" As far as I am aware people such as solicitors or barristers are employed to defend clients and to ensure that all relevant legal processes and procedures are adhered to. A solicitor defending a client for a crime such as murder or shop lifting is simply following a legal process and by doing so no one is even suggesting that they are not suggesting that the crime committed is wrong . That should go without saying though for some bizarre reason at least one poster on this topic seemed to think that it should be necessary to condemn someone for committing a crime. It is a bit pointless stating the obvious . I am not certain why you refer to him as a discredited climate change denier. He is entitled to express his opinions and is probably detested by some of the green lobby as he has disproved many of their theories. I am pretty certain that your knowledge of the case referred to is no different to mine ie virtually non existent unless you attended the board of the court of protection that reached the relevant conclusion. Christopher Booker has never attempted to suggest that it is acceptable to committed crime . He is a highly distinguished and knowlegible academic/ researcher . He comments regularly in his columns about decisions made by the Court of Protection , the procedural issues followed and concerns at the secrecy of many hearings. Legal issues and committing crime are unrelated issues. | |||
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" It might of course be even more important to make the right decision as you have less time in which to correct errors . Who say anything about ignoring publications or information that might disagree . On most decisions in life you will read a number of different opinions and come to a conclusion. I am certain that you could easily locate the two publications to which I refer . You are allowed a free review of certain aspects of them and they are reputable businness publications with no political bias . They are purely geared towards investment advice. But you clearly ignore information that you disagree with. You will still post saying that the stock market is booming despite the fact that its worth less than it was before Brexit. Its not even some controversial opinion, its hard fact that the devaluation is more than the rise in share prices. If % of devaluation is greater than % of rise in share price then its worth less. Inflation should also be factored in but its not even needed to show the markets worth less. And yet you still persist in saying the market has shown improvement because you are now just being hardheaded and refusing to acknowledge that basic maths prove you wrong. Youre no longer arguing opinions youre now arguing that maths are wrong and result in lies. Or are you actually ready to admit that the value of the FTSE has gone down because price rises cant keep up with devaluation? I have never argued about a mathematical calculation. On a simplistic basis if companies are valued on a future earnings potential the currency movements do not really come into the equation. What actually matters is the companies ability to generate long term profits . If the future was as gloomy as some posters predict share prices would have collapsed . This is not the case and most companies are not unduly concerned . Life goes on any other counties will still want to buy our goods . Some posters on here seem obsessed with currency movements . Ok so if your not arguing the math then we are all in agreement that the stock market is worth less now than it was before Brexit. Glad thats cleared up and we can move on. A very strange assumption to make as the values are based on future earnings potential with currency gains being factored in and any other material factors factored in accordingly . Last time I looked the market had moved substantially upwards since June last year . I am at a total loss to understand how anyone could claim it has fallen. Any one selling shares last June and believing in a grim future would have lost up to 25 % of their investments . We will probably have to leave it and accept that your method and my method of valuing shares are totally different . " We've been through this before and the maths for working the true value of the stock market now, as compared to before the BREXIT vote is simple. Here are the numbers and that maths In February 2016 the stock market was trading at around 6000 and GBP/USD was trading at about 1.45. GBP/USD is now trading around 1.20. To find the true value of the 6000 at 1.20 compared to 1.45 is: (6000 * 1.45)/1.20 = 7250 The actual value of the stock market is 7350. So a slight increase of 1.5% in USD, not the 25% you claim. | |||
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"Couldn't give a toss if I materially benefit or not. My leave vote was for a better UK, Europe and future for my son How does it improve your son's life as you are being so selfless?" Good question | |||
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