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budget sneaks...
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"Unpaid internships have been common for years. No wonder they call him "Spread Sheet Phil"! Pretty sterile and safe budget, many commentators struggling to find anything to say about it." True, but to make them mandatory as a part of a qualification... I know that in my day there were many sandwich courses, but the work element was always paid. Seems to me to be nothing but another little bit of free labour for whoever gives the biggest backhander to the government (like mandatory unpaid work placements for unemployed). | |||
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"Unpaid internships have been common for years. No wonder they call him "Spread Sheet Phil"! Pretty sterile and safe budget, many commentators struggling to find anything to say about it. True, but to make them mandatory as a part of a qualification... I know that in my day there were many sandwich courses, but the work element was always paid. Seems to me to be nothing but another little bit of free labour for whoever gives the biggest backhander to the government (like mandatory unpaid work placements for unemployed)." Having been involved in work experience, it's an absolute nightmare. The paper trail is as long as your arm, and all you can do is let them.mske the tea, sweep the floor or use the photo-copier. Used to frustrate the he'll out of me; you want to get them involved in something technical but all you ever did was bore them stupid. | |||
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"The sneak was the "or more"... The problem is you need to listen really hard to what is said or you miss the important stuff. ". Ah, sorry Ill listen harder next time!. Ha no change since school  | |||
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"Unpaid internships have been common for years. No wonder they call him "Spread Sheet Phil"! Pretty sterile and safe budget, many commentators struggling to find anything to say about it." Takes me back to the years when my company used to employ loads of YOPs. That was about as close to slave labour as you could get. Not that any of them were any good for anything other than menial tasks but at least it kept the unemployment figures down. | |||
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"That was about as close to slave labour as you could get. Not that any of them were any good for anything other than menial tasks but at least it kept the unemployment figures down. " Of course the YTS company and your boss made a pretty penny out of it. Thatcher at her best... Guess Thatcher Mk 2 has decided to expand the wheeze to cover students who will have to pay for the privilege of being exploited! | |||
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"That was about as close to slave labour as you could get. Not that any of them were any good for anything other than menial tasks but at least it kept the unemployment figures down. Of course the YTS company and your boss made a pretty penny out of it. Thatcher at her best... Guess Thatcher Mk 2 has decided to expand the wheeze to cover students who will have to pay for the privilege of being exploited! " Weren't you on yesterday wanting a strong manufacturing base? Isn't on-the-job training and a good technical qualification useful for that? | |||
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"That was about as close to slave labour as you could get. Not that any of them were any good for anything other than menial tasks but at least it kept the unemployment figures down. Of course the YTS company and your boss made a pretty penny out of it. Thatcher at her best... Guess Thatcher Mk 2 has decided to expand the wheeze to cover students who will have to pay for the privilege of being exploited! Weren't you on yesterday wanting a strong manufacturing base? Isn't on-the-job training and a good technical qualification useful for that?" On-the-job training is a bit like an 'A level' in Media Studies. Looks good on paper but doesn't mean much. | |||
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"Weren't you on yesterday wanting a strong manufacturing base? Isn't on-the-job training and a good technical qualification useful for that?" Are you suggesting that it is necessary for trainees to supply free labour to private enterprise as part of their training in order to build a strong manufacturing base? | |||
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"Weren't you on yesterday wanting a strong manufacturing base? Isn't on-the-job training and a good technical qualification useful for that? Are you suggesting that it is necessary for trainees to supply free labour to private enterprise as part of their training in order to build a strong manufacturing base? " No. Who said it is free labour, apart from you? But, good quality work experience is invaluable. | |||
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"That was about as close to slave labour as you could get. Not that any of them were any good for anything other than menial tasks but at least it kept the unemployment figures down. Of course the YTS company and your boss made a pretty penny out of it. Thatcher at her best... Guess Thatcher Mk 2 has decided to expand the wheeze to cover students who will have to pay for the privilege of being exploited! " The YTS was managed by the Manpower Services Commission and was an extension of the Youth Opportunities Programme, implemented by the Callaghan government. | |||
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"That was about as close to slave labour as you could get. Not that any of them were any good for anything other than menial tasks but at least it kept the unemployment figures down. Of course the YTS company and your boss made a pretty penny out of it. Thatcher at her best... Guess Thatcher Mk 2 has decided to expand the wheeze to cover students who will have to pay for the privilege of being exploited! The YTS was managed by the Manpower Services Commission and was an extension of the Youth Opportunities Programme, implemented by the Callaghan government." Was it? In Winsford, Cheshire, it was run by a guy who set up a training company that operated out of glorified Shed at the top of Wharton Rd. He went from having nothing to being a millionaire in about 3 years on the money he was paid to rent out 16 and 17 year olds as cheap labour. | |||
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"That was about as close to slave labour as you could get. Not that any of them were any good for anything other than menial tasks but at least it kept the unemployment figures down. Of course the YTS company and your boss made a pretty penny out of it. Thatcher at her best... Guess Thatcher Mk 2 has decided to expand the wheeze to cover students who will have to pay for the privilege of being exploited! The YTS was managed by the Manpower Services Commission and was an extension of the Youth Opportunities Programme, implemented by the Callaghan government. Was it? In Winsford, Cheshire, it was run by a guy who set up a training company that operated out of glorified Shed at the top of Wharton Rd. He went from having nothing to being a millionaire in about 3 years on the money he was paid to rent out 16 and 17 year olds as cheap labour." It was and later by Training and Enterprise Councils. | |||
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"Dust spotted another little sneak... The government are using the RPI as the standard measure for calculating the raise duties in line with inflation as announced in the budget. But for allowance rises they are using the CPI. The difference between the 2 measures is about 1.75% with the CPI being the lower." It's taken you a while to spot this. CPI has been used for allowance increases for at least a couple of years and for the indexation of state pensions and benefits since 2011. | |||
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"Westminster hood and his merry men, rob from the poor and give to the rich?" What utter bollocks, typical left wing views, how do we pay for all of the services that as a nation we demand with out increasing taxation in what ever form it comes in Or shall we go and ask Jeremy's magic money ?? tree for a donation, after all spring will soon be here and it must be coming in to bud | |||
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"Westminster hood and his merry men, rob from the poor and give to the rich? What utter bollocks, typical left wing views, how do we pay for all of the services that as a nation we demand with out increasing taxation in what ever form it comes in Or shall we go and ask Jeremy's magic money ?? tree for a donation, after all spring will soon be here and it must be coming in to bud" Dunno, extra taxes on the wealthy and large corporations maybe, instead of lumping it all on the man on the street, in all those stealth taxes and such. Or the tories could just do as they usually do and go to their magic money tree (the one that grows out the back of ordinary non wealthy folk). | |||
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"Westminster hood and his merry men, rob from the poor and give to the rich? What utter bollocks, typical left wing views, how do we pay for all of the services that as a nation we demand with out increasing taxation in what ever form it comes in Or shall we go and ask Jeremy's magic money ?? tree for a donation, after all spring will soon be here and it must be coming in to bud" Jeremy can fund anything with what's left over from his clothing budget | |||
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"It's taken you a while to spot this. CPI has been used for allowance increases for at least a couple of years and for the indexation of state pensions and benefits since 2011." This I knew about CPI, but I had not noticed that RPI was being used when calculating rises in duty, had you? | |||
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"Yes, which is why I said it had taken you a while to spot it!" So when was that particular wheeze started? | |||
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"I have to say, for a Tory budget, it wasn't too bad." Philip Hammond has shot himself in the foot with the tax increase in national insurance hike for the self employed. This breaks a Tory manifesto pledge. The self employed are a backbone of the Tory vote and many of them 'just about managing' who Teresa May said she wanted to help have been slapped in the face with this. An unforced error from the Tories and could face a Tory backlash on the back benches for breaking a manifesto promise. If Hammond wanted to raise an extra 2 billion for social care he could have taken it from the current 12 billion foreign aid budget instead of hitting the self employed. | |||
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"Westminster hood and his merry men, rob from the poor and give to the rich? What utter bollocks, typical left wing views, how do we pay for all of the services that as a nation we demand with out increasing taxation in what ever form it comes in Or shall we go and ask Jeremy's magic money ?? tree for a donation, after all spring will soon be here and it must be coming in to bud Dunno, extra taxes on the wealthy and large corporations maybe, instead of lumping it all on the man on the street, in all those stealth taxes and such. Or the tories could just do as they usually do and go to their magic money tree (the one that grows out the back of ordinary non wealthy folk)." The wealthy already pay more taxes than most and increasing taxes on large companies could lead to job losses and less dividends being paid to shareholders . With people living longer leading to substantial rises in the cost of both pensions and social services we really have no option but to either accept higher taxes or cut pensions . It does not matter which government is in power , the funding issue has to be addressed . You can hardly blame a Tory government for people living longer . | |||
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"Westminster hood and his merry men, rob from the poor and give to the rich? What utter bollocks, typical left wing views, how do we pay for all of the services that as a nation we demand with out increasing taxation in what ever form it comes in Or shall we go and ask Jeremy's magic money ?? tree for a donation, after all spring will soon be here and it must be coming in to bud Dunno, extra taxes on the wealthy and large corporations maybe, instead of lumping it all on the man on the street, in all those stealth taxes and such. Or the tories could just do as they usually do and go to their magic money tree (the one that grows out the back of ordinary non wealthy folk). The wealthy already pay more taxes than most and increasing taxes on large companies could lead to job losses and less dividends being paid to shareholders . With people living longer leading to substantial rises in the cost of both pensions and social services we really have no option but to either accept higher taxes or cut pensions . It does not matter which government is in power , the funding issue has to be addressed . You can hardly blame a Tory government for people living longer . " The Tory government could cut the the foreign aid budget. India said in recent weeks they don't even want our foreign aid anymore. It begs the question 'why are we still paying it to them then?' We still have a huge deficit, we are borrowing money to give it away in foreign aid. | |||
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"Centaur, why are you kicking up such a fuss about the rise in class 4 nic? Is it because it breaks a manifesto pledge really or that it might hit you in the pocket? Just wondering, like. " I don't think he understands politics. It's about power. Which of the powerful nations have no debt? It's not about money out has to be less than money in. I wonder what influence of favours the Tory government can get from India. | |||
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"I have to say, for a Tory budget, it wasn't too bad. Philip Hammond has shot himself in the foot with the tax increase in national insurance hike for the self employed. This breaks a Tory manifesto pledge. The self employed are a backbone of the Tory vote and many of them 'just about managing' who Teresa May said she wanted to help have been slapped in the face with this. An unforced error from the Tories and could face a Tory backlash on the back benches for breaking a manifesto promise. If Hammond wanted to raise an extra 2 billion for social care he could have taken it from the current 12 billion foreign aid budget instead of hitting the self employed. " It would require a change of legislation for the foreign aid budget to be raided. Do you really think it's a good message to be sending that Brexit has made us too poor to help those most in need around the world? The foreign aid budget isn't paid to the governments of the countries it's spent in, were you aware of that? | |||
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"Centaur, why are you kicking up such a fuss about the rise in class 4 nic? Is it because it breaks a manifesto pledge really or that it might hit you in the pocket? Just wondering, like. " I dont know why he js doing it. But millions of self employed who mortgaged their houses to buy vans, tools, premises will be annoyed that they are paying more. These people don't get sick pay, holiday pay, redundancy pay etc Corbyn didn't mention it as he doesn't undertand, as it is easy to critisise others when you have a nice monthly pay cheque and pension paid regardless. | |||
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"I have to say, for a Tory budget, it wasn't too bad. Philip Hammond has shot himself in the foot with the tax increase in national insurance hike for the self employed. This breaks a Tory manifesto pledge. The self employed are a backbone of the Tory vote and many of them 'just about managing' who Teresa May said she wanted to help have been slapped in the face with this. An unforced error from the Tories and could face a Tory backlash on the back benches for breaking a manifesto promise. If Hammond wanted to raise an extra 2 billion for social care he could have taken it from the current 12 billion foreign aid budget instead of hitting the self employed. It would require a change of legislation for the foreign aid budget to be raided. Do you really think it's a good message to be sending that Brexit has made us too poor to help those most in need around the world? The foreign aid budget isn't paid to the governments of the countries it's spent in, were you aware of that? " You do have to question some aid priorities though. Why are we giving Foreign Aid to China, when China has its own Foreign Aid programme? Just seems to be a money roundabout there! | |||
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"I have to say, for a Tory budget, it wasn't too bad. Philip Hammond has shot himself in the foot with the tax increase in national insurance hike for the self employed. This breaks a Tory manifesto pledge. The self employed are a backbone of the Tory vote and many of them 'just about managing' who Teresa May said she wanted to help have been slapped in the face with this. An unforced error from the Tories and could face a Tory backlash on the back benches for breaking a manifesto promise. If Hammond wanted to raise an extra 2 billion for social care he could have taken it from the current 12 billion foreign aid budget instead of hitting the self employed. It would require a change of legislation for the foreign aid budget to be raided. Do you really think it's a good message to be sending that Brexit has made us too poor to help those most in need around the world? The foreign aid budget isn't paid to the governments of the countries it's spent in, were you aware of that? You do have to question some aid priorities though. Why are we giving Foreign Aid to China, when China has its own Foreign Aid programme? Just seems to be a money roundabout there!" Why are we giving foreign Aid to China? Haven't you heard? We're supposed to be getting some fantastic trade deal with China. We've got to keep them on board somehow. Can I smell a bribe in the air? | |||
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" You do have to question some aid priorities though. Why are we giving Foreign Aid to China, when China has its own Foreign Aid programme? Just seems to be a money roundabout there! Why are we giving foreign Aid to China? Haven't you heard? We're supposed to be getting some fantastic trade deal with China. We've got to keep them on board somehow. Can I smell a bribe in the air?" Very politicy answer. Giving aid to China puts a cloud over the whole programme. In some places aid is desperately needed and not received. China don't need aid from us. Give it to starving children or places with no running water, not a country with Maglev train and space programmes who can currently buy up UK assets left right and centre. | |||
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"Centaur, why are you kicking up such a fuss about the rise in class 4 nic? Is it because it breaks a manifesto pledge really or that it might hit you in the pocket? Just wondering, like. I dont know why he js doing it. But millions of self employed who mortgaged their houses to buy vans, tools, premises will be annoyed that they are paying more. These people don't get sick pay, holiday pay, redundancy pay etc Corbyn didn't mention it as he doesn't undertand, as it is easy to critisise others when you have a nice monthly pay cheque and pension paid regardless." If you are self employed and unable to work you can claim Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) | |||
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"But we don't give money directly to the Chinese state, that's not how out aid programme works. " Perhaps not but irrespective of how the aid is dispensed, this can easily be seen as a sweetener to China to help promote the UK in China's eyes. The other poster is correct, there are many other areas of the world badly in need of aid rather than a country that is, by all accounts, booming. I have nothing against the UK's aid budget but would prefer it to go to more deserving causes. Next we'll be giving aid to some of the poorer states in America to keep on the good side of the orange idiot. | |||
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"Centaur, why are you kicking up such a fuss about the rise in class 4 nic? Is it because it breaks a manifesto pledge really or that it might hit you in the pocket? Just wondering, like. I dont know why he js doing it. But millions of self employed who mortgaged their houses to buy vans, tools, premises will be annoyed that they are paying more. These people don't get sick pay, holiday pay, redundancy pay etc Corbyn didn't mention it as he doesn't undertand, as it is easy to critisise others when you have a nice monthly pay cheque and pension paid regardless. If you are self employed and unable to work you can claim Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)" Have you ever tried to do this? | |||
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"Centaur, why are you kicking up such a fuss about the rise in class 4 nic? Is it because it breaks a manifesto pledge really or that it might hit you in the pocket? Just wondering, like. I dont know why he js doing it. But millions of self employed who mortgaged their houses to buy vans, tools, premises will be annoyed that they are paying more. These people don't get sick pay, holiday pay, redundancy pay etc Corbyn didn't mention it as he doesn't undertand, as it is easy to critisise others when you have a nice monthly pay cheque and pension paid regardless. If you are self employed and unable to work you can claim Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)" hmmm really. Does it cover holiday pay too? Does it cover the cost of supporting your un-supervised employees, does it cover any loan taken out to fund the business? No, it is £73 / week. Also a self employed person who takes on an employee will need to cover any employees sick at that rate, if the employee is off sick. For the millions of self employed who are near one-man-bands, that is an onerous task. Bringing tax for the self employed in line with employed people takes no account of the costs and risks self-employed people take. As mentioned before, for a political leader to not understand this is worrying. Corbyn is supposed to be a man of the people. Does he not understand the lives of the millions of joiners, builders, hairdressers etc etc who he is supposed to be appealing to? | |||
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"On another subject entirely, when did the self-employed all become entrepreneurs? The news channels all seem to be full of them just now. And before anyone has a go, I'm self-employed and have been for many years. I don't consider myself to be an entrepreneur, just an ordinary guy working for himself." noun: entrepreneur; plural noun: entrepreneurs a person who sets up a business or businesses, taking on financial risks in the hope of profit. | |||
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"Centaur, why are you kicking up such a fuss about the rise in class 4 nic? Is it because it breaks a manifesto pledge really or that it might hit you in the pocket? Just wondering, like. I dont know why he js doing it. But millions of self employed who mortgaged their houses to buy vans, tools, premises will be annoyed that they are paying more. These people don't get sick pay, holiday pay, redundancy pay etc Corbyn didn't mention it as he doesn't undertand, as it is easy to critisise others when you have a nice monthly pay cheque and pension paid regardless. If you are self employed and unable to work you can claim Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) Have you ever tried to do this?" I have and they as good as told me to piss off  | |||
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"Centaur, why are you kicking up such a fuss about the rise in class 4 nic? Is it because it breaks a manifesto pledge really or that it might hit you in the pocket? Just wondering, like. I dont know why he js doing it. But millions of self employed who mortgaged their houses to buy vans, tools, premises will be annoyed that they are paying more. These people don't get sick pay, holiday pay, redundancy pay etc Corbyn didn't mention it as he doesn't undertand, as it is easy to critisise others when you have a nice monthly pay cheque and pension paid regardless. If you are self employed and unable to work you can claim Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) Have you ever tried to do this? I have and they as good as told me to piss off "Same here! Was a non starter trying to meet their criteria! Will other "hidden" things be improved for the SE? I had to have two weeks on jury service, not a problem, but my income was reduced by 60% for those two weeks. | |||
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"On another subject entirely, when did the self-employed all become entrepreneurs? The news channels all seem to be full of them just now. And before anyone has a go, I'm self-employed and have been for many years. I don't consider myself to be an entrepreneur, just an ordinary guy working for himself. noun: entrepreneur; plural noun: entrepreneurs a person who sets up a business or businesses, taking on financial risks in the hope of profit." Yes, I'm perfectly aware of the dictionary definition. However, to me, an entrepreneur is someone who sets up a business, grows it and starts employing loads of people. Sir Alan Sugar, for example. My self-employed window cleaner is not, to my mind, an entrepreneur. He's just a guy, like me, trying to make a living. | |||
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"But we don't give money directly to the Chinese state, that's not how out aid programme works. " No, very true but it's all about public perception. Give money to China, and they build aircraft carriers and space rockets, whilst our hospitals are in crisis. Give money to India, and you see the rich swanning around in hyper cars, whilst our schools need more teachers. I'm proud that the UK has a Foreign Aid budget but it does concern me at times. | |||
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"Centaur, why are you kicking up such a fuss about the rise in class 4 nic? Is it because it breaks a manifesto pledge really or that it might hit you in the pocket? Just wondering, like. I dont know why he js doing it. But millions of self employed who mortgaged their houses to buy vans, tools, premises will be annoyed that they are paying more. These people don't get sick pay, holiday pay, redundancy pay etc Corbyn didn't mention it as he doesn't undertand, as it is easy to critisise others when you have a nice monthly pay cheque and pension paid regardless. If you are self employed and unable to work you can claim Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) hmmm really. Does it cover holiday pay too? Does it cover the cost of supporting your un-supervised employees, does it cover any loan taken out to fund the business? No, it is £73 / week. Also a self employed person who takes on an employee will need to cover any employees sick at that rate, if the employee is off sick. For the millions of self employed who are near one-man-bands, that is an onerous task. Bringing tax for the self employed in line with employed people takes no account of the costs and risks self-employed people take. As mentioned before, for a political leader to not understand this is worrying. Corbyn is supposed to be a man of the people. Does he not understand the lives of the millions of joiners, builders, hairdressers etc etc who he is supposed to be appealing to?" It was Phillip Hammond who announced this, not Corbyn. No, ESA doesn't cover holiday pay, it covers sick pay for self employed people. | |||
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"But we don't give money directly to the Chinese state, that's not how out aid programme works. No, very true but it's all about public perception. Give money to China, and they build aircraft carriers and space rockets, whilst our hospitals are in crisis. Give money to India, and you see the rich swanning around in hyper cars, whilst our schools need more teachers. I'm proud that the UK has a Foreign Aid budget but it does concern me at times. " But that is a fundamental misunderstanding of our aid budget and what we use it for. You are suggesting that British money is given to national governments and they are spending it on aircraft carriers and that is simply not the case. | |||
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"But we don't give money directly to the Chinese state, that's not how out aid programme works. No, very true but it's all about public perception. Give money to China, and they build aircraft carriers and space rockets, whilst our hospitals are in crisis. Give money to India, and you see the rich swanning around in hyper cars, whilst our schools need more teachers. I'm proud that the UK has a Foreign Aid budget but it does concern me at times. But that is a fundamental misunderstanding of our aid budget and what we use it for. You are suggesting that British money is given to national governments and they are spending it on aircraft carriers and that is simply not the case." No, I'm saying that is the general perception amongst the majority of the general public. They see countries that we give aid to, doing these things, and Rightly or wrongly, perceive these countries to be rich. | |||
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"But we don't give money directly to the Chinese state, that's not how out aid programme works. No, very true but it's all about public perception. Give money to China, and they build aircraft carriers and space rockets, whilst our hospitals are in crisis. Give money to India, and you see the rich swanning around in hyper cars, whilst our schools need more teachers. I'm proud that the UK has a Foreign Aid budget but it does concern me at times. But that is a fundamental misunderstanding of our aid budget and what we use it for. You are suggesting that British money is given to national governments and they are spending it on aircraft carriers and that is simply not the case. No, I'm saying that is the general perception amongst the majority of the general public. They see countries that we give aid to, doing these things, and Rightly or wrongly, perceive these countries to be rich. " I think public misconception is the biggest problem facing democracy today. If people are considering the UK "too poor" to help "rich countries" like Pakistan, Sierra Leone and South Sudan, that is a major misconception and a major problem. We are the 5/6th largest economy in the world, Sierra Leone is 155th! Look some of the big political issues at the moment and public misconception is behind all of them. | |||
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"But we don't give money directly to the Chinese state, that's not how out aid programme works. No, very true but it's all about public perception. Give money to China, and they build aircraft carriers and space rockets, whilst our hospitals are in crisis. Give money to India, and you see the rich swanning around in hyper cars, whilst our schools need more teachers. I'm proud that the UK has a Foreign Aid budget but it does concern me at times. But that is a fundamental misunderstanding of our aid budget and what we use it for. You are suggesting that British money is given to national governments and they are spending it on aircraft carriers and that is simply not the case. No, I'm saying that is the general perception amongst the majority of the general public. They see countries that we give aid to, doing these things, and Rightly or wrongly, perceive these countries to be rich. I think public misconception is the biggest problem facing democracy today. If people are considering the UK "too poor" to help "rich countries" like Pakistan, Sierra Leone and South Sudan, that is a major misconception and a major problem. We are the 5/6th largest economy in the world, Sierra Leone is 155th! Look some of the big political issues at the moment and public misconception is behind all of them." are you a member of the public? | |||
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" hmmm really. Does it cover holiday pay too? Does it cover the cost of supporting your un-supervised employees, does it cover any loan taken out to fund the business? No, it is £73 / week. Also a self employed person who takes on an employee will need to cover any employees sick at that rate, if the employee is off sick. For the millions of self employed who are near one-man-bands, that is an onerous task. Bringing tax for the self employed in line with employed people takes no account of the costs and risks self-employed people take. As mentioned before, for a political leader to not understand this is worrying. Corbyn is supposed to be a man of the people. Does he not understand the lives of the millions of joiners, builders, hairdressers etc etc who he is supposed to be appealing to? It was Phillip Hammond who announced this, not Corbyn. No, ESA doesn't cover holiday pay, it covers sick pay for self employed people. " Hammond was wrong in applying it. Corbyn was wrong in not challenging it. I have no party agenda to push. | |||
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" No, I'm saying that is the general perception amongst the majority of the general public. They see countries that we give aid to, doing these things, and Rightly or wrongly, perceive these countries to be rich. I think public misconception is the biggest problem facing democracy today. If people are considering the UK "too poor" to help "rich countries" like Pakistan, Sierra Leone and South Sudan, that is a major misconception and a major problem. We are the 5/6th largest economy in the world, Sierra Leone is 155th! Look some of the big political issues at the moment and public misconception is behind all of them." You're choosing to mis-understand. Can you see the problem people have with giving money to China? Every fool knows Sudan needs help. Explain why we give money to China. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" No, I'm saying that is the general perception amongst the majority of the general public. They see countries that we give aid to, doing these things, and Rightly or wrongly, perceive these countries to be rich. I think public misconception is the biggest problem facing democracy today. If people are considering the UK "too poor" to help "rich countries" like Pakistan, Sierra Leone and South Sudan, that is a major misconception and a major problem. We are the 5/6th largest economy in the world, Sierra Leone is 155th! Look some of the big political issues at the moment and public misconception is behind all of them. You're choosing to mis-understand. Can you see the problem people have with giving money to China? Every fool knows Sudan needs help. Explain why we give money to China." I'm chosing to misunderstand? 
Do you know how much aid we are currently giving to China? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" No, I'm saying that is the general perception amongst the majority of the general public. They see countries that we give aid to, doing these things, and Rightly or wrongly, perceive these countries to be rich. I think public misconception is the biggest problem facing democracy today. If people are considering the UK "too poor" to help "rich countries" like Pakistan, Sierra Leone and South Sudan, that is a major misconception and a major problem. We are the 5/6th largest economy in the world, Sierra Leone is 155th! Look some of the big political issues at the moment and public misconception is behind all of them. You're choosing to mis-understand. Can you see the problem people have with giving money to China? Every fool knows Sudan needs help. Explain why we give money to China. I'm chosing to misunderstand?
Do you know how much aid we are currently giving to China? "why don't you tell us? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It was Phillip Hammond who announced this, not Corbyn. No, ESA doesn't cover holiday pay, it covers sick pay for self employed people. " okay this is what i think a lot of people who have complained about this now need to realise.... for the purposes of sick pay... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the most basic leve are treated the same... for the purposes of Maternity/Paternity leave... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same... for the purposes of state pension.... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same.... I did a fair amount of overtime last month (calculating state pensions in my job is a time consuming business)... i came out before tax of about 1850 for the month... i actually paid just more in the NI contributions to cover my state pension for the month than a self employed person would pay to cover their contributions for a year... and for the purposes of this conversation just so all you people know....a self employed person pays £145.60 for the year to cover their state pension contributions... so i'd like to ask centaur... and the people who think that the self employed rise is unfair.... how is it fair that a person who is on "average wage" paying PAYE pays 12 times more for the same thing than a self employed person to get the same thing? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" No, I'm saying that is the general perception amongst the majority of the general public. They see countries that we give aid to, doing these things, and Rightly or wrongly, perceive these countries to be rich. I think public misconception is the biggest problem facing democracy today. If people are considering the UK "too poor" to help "rich countries" like Pakistan, Sierra Leone and South Sudan, that is a major misconception and a major problem. We are the 5/6th largest economy in the world, Sierra Leone is 155th! Look some of the big political issues at the moment and public misconception is behind all of them. You're choosing to mis-understand. Can you see the problem people have with giving money to China? Every fool knows Sudan needs help. Explain why we give money to China. I'm chosing to misunderstand?
Do you know how much aid we are currently giving to China? "The poster is trying to point out why funding China gives rise to unease. Your reply simply explains the abvious and accepted need for aid in Sydan etc. This report in the Guardian says over £10 Million. Can you explain why we do that? https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/nov/16/uk-government-led-public-to-believe-aid-india-ended-watchdog-says-department-international-development-dfid | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It was Phillip Hammond who announced this, not Corbyn. No, ESA doesn't cover holiday pay, it covers sick pay for self employed people. okay this is what i think a lot of people who have complained about this now need to realise.... for the purposes of sick pay... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the most basic leve are treated the same... for the purposes of Maternity/Paternity leave... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same... for the purposes of state pension.... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same.... I did a fair amount of overtime last month (calculating state pensions in my job is a time consuming business)... i came out before tax of about 1850 for the month... i actually paid just more in the NI contributions to cover my state pension for the month than a self employed person would pay to cover their contributions for a year... and for the purposes of this conversation just so all you people know....a self employed person pays £145.60 for the year to cover their state pension contributions... so i'd like to ask centaur... and the people who think that the self employed rise is unfair.... how is it fair that a person who is on "average wage" paying PAYE pays 12 times more for the same thing than a self employed person to get the same thing?" Self employed people form a large part of the working population. Despite your points above, they enjoy nothing like the levels of workplace security that an employed person does. They also take on significant personal risk in setting up a business. Lower NI was a financial benefit to taking those risks and forgoing those benefits. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm not against paying more NI, after all taxation has to come from somewhere. Level the playing field by all means but as we all know the SE have few rights and if we don't work, for whatever reason, we don't get paid. Simple as. " exactly, a lot of contractors don't know whether they'll be working from one week to the next. They should get a reduction for healthcare anyway, they can't afford to be sick  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm not against paying more NI, after all taxation has to come from somewhere. Level the playing field by all means but as we all know the SE have few rights and if we don't work, for whatever reason, we don't get paid. Simple as. exactly, a lot of contractors don't know whether they'll be working from one week to the next. They should get a reduction for healthcare anyway, they can't afford to be sick "And that's assuming that people actually pay you! You can't use false promises and credit notes at Tescos! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It was Phillip Hammond who announced this, not Corbyn. No, ESA doesn't cover holiday pay, it covers sick pay for self employed people. okay this is what i think a lot of people who have complained about this now need to realise.... for the purposes of sick pay... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the most basic leve are treated the same... for the purposes of Maternity/Paternity leave... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same... for the purposes of state pension.... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same.... I did a fair amount of overtime last month (calculating state pensions in my job is a time consuming business)... i came out before tax of about 1850 for the month... i actually paid just more in the NI contributions to cover my state pension for the month than a self employed person would pay to cover their contributions for a year... and for the purposes of this conversation just so all you people know....a self employed person pays £145.60 for the year to cover their state pension contributions... so i'd like to ask centaur... and the people who think that the self employed rise is unfair.... how is it fair that a person who is on "average wage" paying PAYE pays 12 times more for the same thing than a self employed person to get the same thing?" Is this example not slightly misleading ?. If your profits are above £8060 you pay 9 %. ? If we compared the self employed to the salary level which you have quoted they would be paying 9 %. The £2.80 per week to which you refer is only applicable to certain self employed people . There is also an additional 2 % to pay on profits over £43000. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It was Phillip Hammond who announced this, not Corbyn. No, ESA doesn't cover holiday pay, it covers sick pay for self employed people. okay this is what i think a lot of people who have complained about this now need to realise.... for the purposes of sick pay... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the most basic leve are treated the same... for the purposes of Maternity/Paternity leave... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same... for the purposes of state pension.... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same.... I did a fair amount of overtime last month (calculating state pensions in my job is a time consuming business)... i came out before tax of about 1850 for the month... i actually paid just more in the NI contributions to cover my state pension for the month than a self employed person would pay to cover their contributions for a year... and for the purposes of this conversation just so all you people know....a self employed person pays £145.60 for the year to cover their state pension contributions... so i'd like to ask centaur... and the people who think that the self employed rise is unfair.... how is it fair that a person who is on "average wage" paying PAYE pays 12 times more for the same thing than a self employed person to get the same thing?" You left out holiday pay there Fabio. If a self employed person goes on holiday for 2 weeks in the summer time they don't get paid. If a self employed person has time off for Christmas they don't get paid. If a self employed person has bank holidays off they don't get paid. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It was Phillip Hammond who announced this, not Corbyn. No, ESA doesn't cover holiday pay, it covers sick pay for self employed people. okay this is what i think a lot of people who have complained about this now need to realise.... for the purposes of sick pay... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the most basic leve are treated the same... for the purposes of Maternity/Paternity leave... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same... for the purposes of state pension.... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same.... I did a fair amount of overtime last month (calculating state pensions in my job is a time consuming business)... i came out before tax of about 1850 for the month... i actually paid just more in the NI contributions to cover my state pension for the month than a self employed person would pay to cover their contributions for a year... and for the purposes of this conversation just so all you people know....a self employed person pays £145.60 for the year to cover their state pension contributions... so i'd like to ask centaur... and the people who think that the self employed rise is unfair.... how is it fair that a person who is on "average wage" paying PAYE pays 12 times more for the same thing than a self employed person to get the same thing? You left out holiday pay there Fabio. If a self employed person goes on holiday for 2 weeks in the summer time they don't get paid. If a self employed person has time off for Christmas they don't get paid. If a self employed person has bank holidays off they don't get paid. " No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It was Phillip Hammond who announced this, not Corbyn. No, ESA doesn't cover holiday pay, it covers sick pay for self employed people. okay this is what i think a lot of people who have complained about this now need to realise.... for the purposes of sick pay... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the most basic leve are treated the same... for the purposes of Maternity/Paternity leave... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same... for the purposes of state pension.... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same.... I did a fair amount of overtime last month (calculating state pensions in my job is a time consuming business)... i came out before tax of about 1850 for the month... i actually paid just more in the NI contributions to cover my state pension for the month than a self employed person would pay to cover their contributions for a year... and for the purposes of this conversation just so all you people know....a self employed person pays £145.60 for the year to cover their state pension contributions... so i'd like to ask centaur... and the people who think that the self employed rise is unfair.... how is it fair that a person who is on "average wage" paying PAYE pays 12 times more for the same thing than a self employed person to get the same thing? You left out holiday pay there Fabio. If a self employed person goes on holiday for 2 weeks in the summer time they don't get paid. If a self employed person has time off for Christmas they don't get paid. If a self employed person has bank holidays off they don't get paid. No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things "Unless the market is highly competitive , in which case they may not be able to charge more . | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It was Phillip Hammond who announced this, not Corbyn. No, ESA doesn't cover holiday pay, it covers sick pay for self employed people. okay this is what i think a lot of people who have complained about this now need to realise.... for the purposes of sick pay... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the most basic leve are treated the same... for the purposes of Maternity/Paternity leave... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same... for the purposes of state pension.... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same.... I did a fair amount of overtime last month (calculating state pensions in my job is a time consuming business)... i came out before tax of about 1850 for the month... i actually paid just more in the NI contributions to cover my state pension for the month than a self employed person would pay to cover their contributions for a year... and for the purposes of this conversation just so all you people know....a self employed person pays £145.60 for the year to cover their state pension contributions... so i'd like to ask centaur... and the people who think that the self employed rise is unfair.... how is it fair that a person who is on "average wage" paying PAYE pays 12 times more for the same thing than a self employed person to get the same thing? You left out holiday pay there Fabio. If a self employed person goes on holiday for 2 weeks in the summer time they don't get paid. If a self employed person has time off for Christmas they don't get paid. If a self employed person has bank holidays off they don't get paid. No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things "No, the reason the self employed don't pay as much national insurance is to cover such things. It seems from the reports on press preview on sky news tonight that Teresa May and Philip Hammond are starting to backtrack on this now. I think they've realised that they have made a mistake. This could end up being another u-turn along the lines of George Osborne's pasty tax. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It was Phillip Hammond who announced this, not Corbyn. No, ESA doesn't cover holiday pay, it covers sick pay for self employed people. okay this is what i think a lot of people who have complained about this now need to realise.... for the purposes of sick pay... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the most basic leve are treated the same... for the purposes of Maternity/Paternity leave... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same... for the purposes of state pension.... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same.... I did a fair amount of overtime last month (calculating state pensions in my job is a time consuming business)... i came out before tax of about 1850 for the month... i actually paid just more in the NI contributions to cover my state pension for the month than a self employed person would pay to cover their contributions for a year... and for the purposes of this conversation just so all you people know....a self employed person pays £145.60 for the year to cover their state pension contributions... so i'd like to ask centaur... and the people who think that the self employed rise is unfair.... how is it fair that a person who is on "average wage" paying PAYE pays 12 times more for the same thing than a self employed person to get the same thing? You left out holiday pay there Fabio. If a self employed person goes on holiday for 2 weeks in the summer time they don't get paid. If a self employed person has time off for Christmas they don't get paid. If a self employed person has bank holidays off they don't get paid. No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things "Genius! I never thought of that! I'm going to charge whatever I want now and the customer will always pay! Yay! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It was Phillip Hammond who announced this, not Corbyn. No, ESA doesn't cover holiday pay, it covers sick pay for self employed people. okay this is what i think a lot of people who have complained about this now need to realise.... for the purposes of sick pay... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the most basic leve are treated the same... for the purposes of Maternity/Paternity leave... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same... for the purposes of state pension.... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same.... I did a fair amount of overtime last month (calculating state pensions in my job is a time consuming business)... i came out before tax of about 1850 for the month... i actually paid just more in the NI contributions to cover my state pension for the month than a self employed person would pay to cover their contributions for a year... and for the purposes of this conversation just so all you people know....a self employed person pays £145.60 for the year to cover their state pension contributions... so i'd like to ask centaur... and the people who think that the self employed rise is unfair.... how is it fair that a person who is on "average wage" paying PAYE pays 12 times more for the same thing than a self employed person to get the same thing? You left out holiday pay there Fabio. If a self employed person goes on holiday for 2 weeks in the summer time they don't get paid. If a self employed person has time off for Christmas they don't get paid. If a self employed person has bank holidays off they don't get paid. No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things
Genius! I never thought of that! I'm going to charge whatever I want now and the customer will always pay! Yay!"Right, so at the moment you are asking us to believe that when you take a holiday you don't eat, you dont heat your home, you dont pay your rent/mortgage, you dont use your car etc etc etc. Christmas must be a right laugh round yours, no presents, no turkey, sitting in the cold and the dark. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It was Phillip Hammond who announced this, not Corbyn. No, ESA doesn't cover holiday pay, it covers sick pay for self employed people. okay this is what i think a lot of people who have complained about this now need to realise.... for the purposes of sick pay... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the most basic leve are treated the same... for the purposes of Maternity/Paternity leave... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same... for the purposes of state pension.... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same.... I did a fair amount of overtime last month (calculating state pensions in my job is a time consuming business)... i came out before tax of about 1850 for the month... i actually paid just more in the NI contributions to cover my state pension for the month than a self employed person would pay to cover their contributions for a year... and for the purposes of this conversation just so all you people know....a self employed person pays £145.60 for the year to cover their state pension contributions... so i'd like to ask centaur... and the people who think that the self employed rise is unfair.... how is it fair that a person who is on "average wage" paying PAYE pays 12 times more for the same thing than a self employed person to get the same thing? You left out holiday pay there Fabio. If a self employed person goes on holiday for 2 weeks in the summer time they don't get paid. If a self employed person has time off for Christmas they don't get paid. If a self employed person has bank holidays off they don't get paid. No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things
Genius! I never thought of that! I'm going to charge whatever I want now and the customer will always pay! Yay!
Right, so at the moment you are asking us to believe that when you take a holiday you don't eat, you dont heat your home, you dont pay your rent/mortgage, you dont use your car etc etc etc. Christmas must be a right laugh round yours, no presents, no turkey, sitting in the cold and the dark. "I do ok. But for me or anybody self employed at any time it could be like that | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Unpaid internships have been common for years. No wonder they call him "Spread Sheet Phil"! Pretty sterile and safe budget, many commentators struggling to find anything to say about it. Takes me back to the years when my company used to employ loads of YOPs. That was about as close to slave labour as you could get. Not that any of them were any good for anything other than menial tasks but at least it kept the unemployment figures down. " We had a YOP when I was 3rd year apprentice. He was put under me. He didn't have the right qualifications for an apprenticeship. I helped him learn the basics of the trade, he also went to night school to do maths and physics (I used to help him with his homework). At the end of his YOP with us, he'd got on so well that the company offered him a full apprenticeship. Proves that if someone wants to get on, and puts in the effort, then it can be done. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It was Phillip Hammond who announced this, not Corbyn. No, ESA doesn't cover holiday pay, it covers sick pay for self employed people. okay this is what i think a lot of people who have complained about this now need to realise.... for the purposes of sick pay... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the most basic leve are treated the same... for the purposes of Maternity/Paternity leave... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same... for the purposes of state pension.... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same.... I did a fair amount of overtime last month (calculating state pensions in my job is a time consuming business)... i came out before tax of about 1850 for the month... i actually paid just more in the NI contributions to cover my state pension for the month than a self employed person would pay to cover their contributions for a year... and for the purposes of this conversation just so all you people know....a self employed person pays £145.60 for the year to cover their state pension contributions... so i'd like to ask centaur... and the people who think that the self employed rise is unfair.... how is it fair that a person who is on "average wage" paying PAYE pays 12 times more for the same thing than a self employed person to get the same thing? You left out holiday pay there Fabio. If a self employed person goes on holiday for 2 weeks in the summer time they don't get paid. If a self employed person has time off for Christmas they don't get paid. If a self employed person has bank holidays off they don't get paid. No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things
Genius! I never thought of that! I'm going to charge whatever I want now and the customer will always pay! Yay!
Right, so at the moment you are asking us to believe that when you take a holiday you don't eat, you dont heat your home, you dont pay your rent/mortgage, you dont use your car etc etc etc. Christmas must be a right laugh round yours, no presents, no turkey, sitting in the cold and the dark.
I do ok. But for me or anybody self employed at any time it could be like that"If they are that shit at their job that they cant eat, house or warm themselves on the days that they are not working, they need to reevaluate their career choices, self employment probably isn't right for them. If you manage to do all right on the days that you are not working, then you must have charged your customers enough to cover those days too. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It was Phillip Hammond who announced this, not Corbyn. No, ESA doesn't cover holiday pay, it covers sick pay for self employed people. okay this is what i think a lot of people who have complained about this now need to realise.... for the purposes of sick pay... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the most basic leve are treated the same... for the purposes of Maternity/Paternity leave... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same... for the purposes of state pension.... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same.... I did a fair amount of overtime last month (calculating state pensions in my job is a time consuming business)... i came out before tax of about 1850 for the month... i actually paid just more in the NI contributions to cover my state pension for the month than a self employed person would pay to cover their contributions for a year... and for the purposes of this conversation just so all you people know....a self employed person pays £145.60 for the year to cover their state pension contributions... so i'd like to ask centaur... and the people who think that the self employed rise is unfair.... how is it fair that a person who is on "average wage" paying PAYE pays 12 times more for the same thing than a self employed person to get the same thing? You left out holiday pay there Fabio. If a self employed person goes on holiday for 2 weeks in the summer time they don't get paid. If a self employed person has time off for Christmas they don't get paid. If a self employed person has bank holidays off they don't get paid. No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things
Genius! I never thought of that! I'm going to charge whatever I want now and the customer will always pay! Yay!
Right, so at the moment you are asking us to believe that when you take a holiday you don't eat, you dont heat your home, you dont pay your rent/mortgage, you dont use your car etc etc etc. Christmas must be a right laugh round yours, no presents, no turkey, sitting in the cold and the dark.
I do ok. But for me or anybody self employed at any time it could be like that
If they are that shit at their job that they cant eat, house or warm themselves on the days that they are not working, they need to reevaluate their career choices, self employment probably isn't right for them.
If you manage to do all right on the days that you are not working, then you must have charged your customers enough to cover those days too. "its not a case of being shit, if the work suddenly isn't there, it isn't there. You obviously don't know what you're talking about | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It was Phillip Hammond who announced this, not Corbyn. No, ESA doesn't cover holiday pay, it covers sick pay for self employed people. okay this is what i think a lot of people who have complained about this now need to realise.... for the purposes of sick pay... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the most basic leve are treated the same... for the purposes of Maternity/Paternity leave... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same... for the purposes of state pension.... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same.... I did a fair amount of overtime last month (calculating state pensions in my job is a time consuming business)... i came out before tax of about 1850 for the month... i actually paid just more in the NI contributions to cover my state pension for the month than a self employed person would pay to cover their contributions for a year... and for the purposes of this conversation just so all you people know....a self employed person pays £145.60 for the year to cover their state pension contributions... so i'd like to ask centaur... and the people who think that the self employed rise is unfair.... how is it fair that a person who is on "average wage" paying PAYE pays 12 times more for the same thing than a self employed person to get the same thing? You left out holiday pay there Fabio. If a self employed person goes on holiday for 2 weeks in the summer time they don't get paid. If a self employed person has time off for Christmas they don't get paid. If a self employed person has bank holidays off they don't get paid. No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things
Genius! I never thought of that! I'm going to charge whatever I want now and the customer will always pay! Yay!
Right, so at the moment you are asking us to believe that when you take a holiday you don't eat, you dont heat your home, you dont pay your rent/mortgage, you dont use your car etc etc etc. Christmas must be a right laugh round yours, no presents, no turkey, sitting in the cold and the dark.
I do ok. But for me or anybody self employed at any time it could be like that
If they are that shit at their job that they cant eat, house or warm themselves on the days that they are not working, they need to reevaluate their career choices, self employment probably isn't right for them.
If you manage to do all right on the days that you are not working, then you must have charged your customers enough to cover those days too.
its not a case of being shit, if the work suddenly isn't there, it isn't there. You obviously don't know what you're talking about"If your career doesn't pay enough to feed you, warm you or shelter you, it's not a good career. To argue against that is a ridiculous position. | |||
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" It was Phillip Hammond who announced this, not Corbyn. No, ESA doesn't cover holiday pay, it covers sick pay for self employed people. okay this is what i think a lot of people who have complained about this now need to realise.... for the purposes of sick pay... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the most basic leve are treated the same... for the purposes of Maternity/Paternity leave... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same... for the purposes of state pension.... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same.... I did a fair amount of overtime last month (calculating state pensions in my job is a time consuming business)... i came out before tax of about 1850 for the month... i actually paid just more in the NI contributions to cover my state pension for the month than a self employed person would pay to cover their contributions for a year... and for the purposes of this conversation just so all you people know....a self employed person pays £145.60 for the year to cover their state pension contributions... so i'd like to ask centaur... and the people who think that the self employed rise is unfair.... how is it fair that a person who is on "average wage" paying PAYE pays 12 times more for the same thing than a self employed person to get the same thing? You left out holiday pay there Fabio. If a self employed person goes on holiday for 2 weeks in the summer time they don't get paid. If a self employed person has time off for Christmas they don't get paid. If a self employed person has bank holidays off they don't get paid. No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things "You're missing lots of things here CLCC. .... First and foremost is that when you're employed your income is guaranteed. When you're sick, you get paid. When you're on holiday, you get paid. If you need to be trained, your training is paid for....and you get paid. If you need any stationery, files, folders, a computer, printer, mobile phone, vehicle for work, etc, etc, ....it's all paid for. Accountancy? That's your employer's problem. Insurances? Again, your employer pays all that. Company pension scheme? No such thing if you're self-employed. I'd suggest you try being self-employed first before implying how easy it is. | |||
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" It was Phillip Hammond who announced this, not Corbyn. No, ESA doesn't cover holiday pay, it covers sick pay for self employed people. okay this is what i think a lot of people who have complained about this now need to realise.... for the purposes of sick pay... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the most basic leve are treated the same... for the purposes of Maternity/Paternity leave... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same... for the purposes of state pension.... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same.... I did a fair amount of overtime last month (calculating state pensions in my job is a time consuming business)... i came out before tax of about 1850 for the month... i actually paid just more in the NI contributions to cover my state pension for the month than a self employed person would pay to cover their contributions for a year... and for the purposes of this conversation just so all you people know....a self employed person pays £145.60 for the year to cover their state pension contributions... so i'd like to ask centaur... and the people who think that the self employed rise is unfair.... how is it fair that a person who is on "average wage" paying PAYE pays 12 times more for the same thing than a self employed person to get the same thing? You left out holiday pay there Fabio. If a self employed person goes on holiday for 2 weeks in the summer time they don't get paid. If a self employed person has time off for Christmas they don't get paid. If a self employed person has bank holidays off they don't get paid. No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things
Genius! I never thought of that! I'm going to charge whatever I want now and the customer will always pay! Yay!
Right, so at the moment you are asking us to believe that when you take a holiday you don't eat, you dont heat your home, you dont pay your rent/mortgage, you dont use your car etc etc etc. Christmas must be a right laugh round yours, no presents, no turkey, sitting in the cold and the dark.
I do ok. But for me or anybody self employed at any time it could be like that
If they are that shit at their job that they cant eat, house or warm themselves on the days that they are not working, they need to reevaluate their career choices, self employment probably isn't right for them.
If you manage to do all right on the days that you are not working, then you must have charged your customers enough to cover those days too.
its not a case of being shit, if the work suddenly isn't there, it isn't there. You obviously don't know what you're talking about
If your career doesn't pay enough to feed you, warm you or shelter you, it's not a good career. To argue against that is a ridiculous position. "Not a good career? Ok, maybe they should pay less NI then eh | |||
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" No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things "aka It doesn't concern you and legitimate concerns people who understand self employment can just be brushed aside?? Maybe, just maybe, listen and try to understand someone elses viewpoint. Sometimes they might have an insight on something that you haven't. Learning from others' experiences can be very useful. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It was Phillip Hammond who announced this, not Corbyn. No, ESA doesn't cover holiday pay, it covers sick pay for self employed people. okay this is what i think a lot of people who have complained about this now need to realise.... for the purposes of sick pay... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the most basic leve are treated the same... for the purposes of Maternity/Paternity leave... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same... for the purposes of state pension.... those who are self employed and those who are employed at the basic level are treated the same.... I did a fair amount of overtime last month (calculating state pensions in my job is a time consuming business)... i came out before tax of about 1850 for the month... i actually paid just more in the NI contributions to cover my state pension for the month than a self employed person would pay to cover their contributions for a year... and for the purposes of this conversation just so all you people know....a self employed person pays £145.60 for the year to cover their state pension contributions... so i'd like to ask centaur... and the people who think that the self employed rise is unfair.... how is it fair that a person who is on "average wage" paying PAYE pays 12 times more for the same thing than a self employed person to get the same thing? You left out holiday pay there Fabio. If a self employed person goes on holiday for 2 weeks in the summer time they don't get paid. If a self employed person has time off for Christmas they don't get paid. If a self employed person has bank holidays off they don't get paid. No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things
Genius! I never thought of that! I'm going to charge whatever I want now and the customer will always pay! Yay!
Right, so at the moment you are asking us to believe that when you take a holiday you don't eat, you dont heat your home, you dont pay your rent/mortgage, you dont use your car etc etc etc. Christmas must be a right laugh round yours, no presents, no turkey, sitting in the cold and the dark.
I do ok. But for me or anybody self employed at any time it could be like that
If they are that shit at their job that they cant eat, house or warm themselves on the days that they are not working, they need to reevaluate their career choices, self employment probably isn't right for them.
If you manage to do all right on the days that you are not working, then you must have charged your customers enough to cover those days too.
its not a case of being shit, if the work suddenly isn't there, it isn't there. You obviously don't know what you're talking about
If your career doesn't pay enough to feed you, warm you or shelter you, it's not a good career. To argue against that is a ridiculous position.
Not a good career? Ok, maybe they should pay less NI then eh "If a career does not pay you enough to feed yourself, warm yourself and shelter yourself its not a good career. | |||
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" No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things
aka It doesn't concern you and legitimate concerns people who understand self employment can just be brushed aside??
Maybe, just maybe, listen and try to understand someone elses viewpoint. Sometimes they might have an insight on something that you haven't.
Learning from others' experiences can be very useful."No, not that at all, I know how it works just fine thank you. Successful self employed people charge enough to cover their holidays. You can argue against that until you are blue in the face, you and other posters are just so opposed to anything that I say that you paint yourselves into ridiculous positions. | |||
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" No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things
aka It doesn't concern you and legitimate concerns people who understand self employment can just be brushed aside??
Maybe, just maybe, listen and try to understand someone elses viewpoint. Sometimes they might have an insight on something that you haven't.
Learning from others' experiences can be very useful.
No, not that at all, I know how it works just fine thank you. Successful self employed people charge enough to cover their holidays. You can argue against that until you are blue in the face, you and other posters are just so opposed to anything that I say that you paint yourselves into ridiculous positions. " | |||
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" No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things
aka It doesn't concern you and legitimate concerns people who understand self employment can just be brushed aside??
Maybe, just maybe, listen and try to understand someone elses viewpoint. Sometimes they might have an insight on something that you haven't.
Learning from others' experiences can be very useful.
No, not that at all, I know how it works just fine thank you. Successful self employed people charge enough to cover their holidays. You can argue against that until you are blue in the face, you and other posters are just so opposed to anything that I say that you paint yourselves into ridiculous positions.
"Idealism against pragmatism? | |||
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" No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things
aka It doesn't concern you and legitimate concerns people who understand self employment can just be brushed aside??
Maybe, just maybe, listen and try to understand someone elses viewpoint. Sometimes they might have an insight on something that you haven't.
Learning from others' experiences can be very useful.
No, not that at all, I know how it works just fine thank you. Successful self employed people charge enough to cover their holidays. You can argue against that until you are blue in the face, you and other posters are just so opposed to anything that I say that you paint yourselves into ridiculous positions. "A couple of SE posters have told you that ESA is virtually u-nclaimable, so you concentrated on holiday pay. Does a SE taking significant risk, i.e loans to fund tools, premises etc enter the equation? If a SE person employees someone, that employee has full employment rights. If that employee goes sick then the SE employer has to cover sick pay from their own pocket and potentially the employees hours and workload to keep the company going. Can you imagine that being difficult? I know nothing about fishing. If a fisherman told me certain aspects of fishing were difficult I would listen to what he said. I wouldn't do some internet research and contradict his years of experience. That would be idiotic. | |||
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"You would listen to experts then?" Yes, I do. You can now reply about the experts advising 'remain' . Then others will say they got it wrong blahdy blah. If your way is to ignore posters who have day-day experience fine. | |||
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" No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things
aka It doesn't concern you and legitimate concerns people who understand self employment can just be brushed aside??
Maybe, just maybe, listen and try to understand someone elses viewpoint. Sometimes they might have an insight on something that you haven't.
Learning from others' experiences can be very useful.
No, not that at all, I know how it works just fine thank you. Successful self employed people charge enough to cover their holidays. You can argue against that until you are blue in the face, you and other posters are just so opposed to anything that I say that you paint yourselves into ridiculous positions.
A couple of SE posters have told you that ESA is virtually u-nclaimable, so you concentrated on holiday pay.
Does a SE taking significant risk, i.e loans to fund tools, premises etc enter the equation?
If a SE person employees someone, that employee has full employment rights. If that employee goes sick then the SE employer has to cover sick pay from their own pocket and potentially the employees hours and workload to keep the company going. Can you imagine that being difficult?
I know nothing about fishing. If a fisherman told me certain aspects of fishing were difficult I would listen to what he said. I wouldn't do some internet research and contradict his years of experience. That would be idiotic."Why do you assume that I dont have personal experience of self employment? | |||
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" Why do you assume that I dont have personal experience of self employment? " Your off-hand dismissal of other SE members experience. But that isn't my issue. I'll wait for another poster to come along so a meaningful discussion can be had. | |||
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" Why do you assume that I dont have personal experience of self employment? " Have you any useful comment about an SE persons employees sick pay. Or SE personal financial risk? | |||
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" Why do you assume that I dont have personal experience of self employment? Have you any useful comment about an SE persons employees sick pay. Or SE personal financial risk?" I have made a factual and useful comment a out sick pay, that self employed people can claim ESA. Yes being self employed can be a risk, but it's a risk that people are aware of when they chose to be self employed. There are also risks with being employed, be these zero hours contracts, temporary contracts etc. I stand by my earlier comments that any career, employed or self employed, that doesn't pay enough to feed yourself, shelter yourself, warm yourself etc is a bad career. To argue otherwise is ridiculous, and I doubt that anyone on this forum had chosen such a career. | |||
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" Why do you assume that I dont have personal experience of self employment? Have you any useful comment about an SE persons employees sick pay. Or SE personal financial risk? I have made a factual and useful comment a out sick pay, that self employed people can claim ESA. Yes being self employed can be a risk, but it's a risk that people are aware of when they chose to be self employed. There are also risks with being employed, be these zero hours contracts, temporary contracts etc. I stand by my earlier comments that any career, employed or self employed, that doesn't pay enough to feed yourself, shelter yourself, warm yourself etc is a bad career. To argue otherwise is ridiculous, and I doubt that anyone on this forum had chosen such a career. " You could equally say someone can choose to take a zero hour contract. That would be an equally useless comment. The feeding, heating comment is just diversion from useful facts and discussion. Another waste of time 'discussion' . | |||
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"Im all for self employed people ive been self employed most of my life but ive also been employed id like to say this. Being employed myths: if you have a good job at the BBC or the power plant you get some job security but most people dont work that type of good job, they work for very small employers and you have no more job security than a being self employed,I worked for three companies that just went bust overnight, found out the morning I turned up for work, got no redundancy, got no notice, I only took two days off sick and I only got paid statory gov pay about £40 I paid £50 a week ni on my last job and in reality only got 20 days paid holiday which came to £1800 a year! I prefer self employed it pays better but since they tightened the rules anybody employing you for half a year wants you cards in and then the gov screw you big time" You'll also get no sick pay being self employed if you are sick, or you take someone on and they are sick. When you or they are sick, your self employemed work can't be done and the loans you took out to buy a van, tools, premises can't be covered. There are lots of financial risks. I agree, if your employer goes bust overnight as an employee , you struggle to get anything. | |||
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"Im all for self employed people ive been self employed most of my life but ive also been employed id like to say this. Being employed myths: if you have a good job at the BBC or the power plant you get some job security but most people dont work that type of good job, they work for very small employers and you have no more job security than a being self employed,I worked for three companies that just went bust overnight, found out the morning I turned up for work, got no redundancy, got no notice, I only took two days off sick and I only got paid statory gov pay about £40 I paid £50 a week ni on my last job and in reality only got 20 days paid holiday which came to £1800 a year! I prefer self employed it pays better but since they tightened the rules anybody employing you for half a year wants you cards in and then the gov screw you big time You'll also get no sick pay being self employed if you are sick, or you take someone on and they are sick. When you or they are sick, your self employemed work can't be done and the loans you took out to buy a van, tools, premises can't be covered. There are lots of financial risks. I agree, if your employer goes bust overnight as an employee , you struggle to get anything." The State pays a certain amount of redundancy pay in such circumstances. | |||
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"Im all for self employed people ive been self employed most of my life but ive also been employed id like to say this. Being employed myths: if you have a good job at the BBC or the power plant you get some job security but most people dont work that type of good job, they work for very small employers and you have no more job security than a being self employed,I worked for three companies that just went bust overnight, found out the morning I turned up for work, got no redundancy, got no notice, I only took two days off sick and I only got paid statory gov pay about £40 I paid £50 a week ni on my last job and in reality only got 20 days paid holiday which came to £1800 a year! I prefer self employed it pays better but since they tightened the rules anybody employing you for half a year wants you cards in and then the gov screw you big time You'll also get no sick pay being self employed if you are sick, or you take someone on and they are sick. When you or they are sick, your self employemed work can't be done and the loans you took out to buy a van, tools, premises can't be covered. There are lots of financial risks. I agree, if your employer goes bust overnight as an employee , you struggle to get anything." You'll get ESA instead of SSP, as you have been told repeatedly! Remember that other thread where I was saying about public misconceptions? Its a misconception that self employed get no state assistance if they are sick, they do, it's called ESA. | |||
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"Im all for self employed people ive been self employed most of my life but ive also been employed id like to say this. Being employed myths: if you have a good job at the BBC or the power plant you get some job security but most people dont work that type of good job, they work for very small employers and you have no more job security than a being self employed,I worked for three companies that just went bust overnight, found out the morning I turned up for work, got no redundancy, got no notice, I only took two days off sick and I only got paid statory gov pay about £40 I paid £50 a week ni on my last job and in reality only got 20 days paid holiday which came to £1800 a year! I prefer self employed it pays better but since they tightened the rules anybody employing you for half a year wants you cards in and then the gov screw you big time You'll also get no sick pay being self employed if you are sick, or you take someone on and they are sick. When you or they are sick, your self employemed work can't be done and the loans you took out to buy a van, tools, premises can't be covered. There are lots of financial risks. I agree, if your employer goes bust overnight as an employee , you struggle to get anything. You'll get ESA instead of SSP, as you have been told repeatedly! Remember that other thread where I was saying about public misconceptions? Its a misconception that self employed get no state assistance if they are sick, they do, it's called ESA." You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Im all for self employed people ive been self employed most of my life but ive also been employed id like to say this. Being employed myths: if you have a good job at the BBC or the power plant you get some job security but most people dont work that type of good job, they work for very small employers and you have no more job security than a being self employed,I worked for three companies that just went bust overnight, found out the morning I turned up for work, got no redundancy, got no notice, I only took two days off sick and I only got paid statory gov pay about £40 I paid £50 a week ni on my last job and in reality only got 20 days paid holiday which came to £1800 a year! I prefer self employed it pays better but since they tightened the rules anybody employing you for half a year wants you cards in and then the gov screw you big time You'll also get no sick pay being self employed if you are sick, or you take someone on and they are sick. When you or they are sick, your self employemed work can't be done and the loans you took out to buy a van, tools, premises can't be covered. There are lots of financial risks. I agree, if your employer goes bust overnight as an employee , you struggle to get anything. You'll get ESA instead of SSP, as you have been told repeatedly! Remember that other thread where I was saying about public misconceptions? Its a misconception that self employed get no state assistance if they are sick, they do, it's called ESA. You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA?" Check out .gov.uk  | |||
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" You'll also get no sick pay being self employed if you are sick, or you take someone on and they are sick. When you or they are sick, your self employemed work can't be done and the loans you took out to buy a van, tools, premises can't be covered. There are lots of financial risks. I agree, if your employer goes bust overnight as an employee , you struggle to get anything. You'll get ESA instead of SSP, as you have been told repeatedly! Remember that other thread where I was saying about public misconceptions? Its a misconception that self employed get no state assistance if they are sick, they do, it's called ESA." You will only focus one one part that you think you are right on. People have told you from experience that ESA is nigh on impossible to claim. Will you discuss any other aspect apart from ESA? My experience is that you only discuss the one aspect, that you think you are correct on. If any other point is made you ignore it. People do notice, it doesn't make you look clever or correct. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Im all for self employed people ive been self employed most of my life but ive also been employed id like to say this. Being employed myths: if you have a good job at the BBC or the power plant you get some job security but most people dont work that type of good job, they work for very small employers and you have no more job security than a being self employed,I worked for three companies that just went bust overnight, found out the morning I turned up for work, got no redundancy, got no notice, I only took two days off sick and I only got paid statory gov pay about £40 I paid £50 a week ni on my last job and in reality only got 20 days paid holiday which came to £1800 a year! I prefer self employed it pays better but since they tightened the rules anybody employing you for half a year wants you cards in and then the gov screw you big time You'll also get no sick pay being self employed if you are sick, or you take someone on and they are sick. When you or they are sick, your self employemed work can't be done and the loans you took out to buy a van, tools, premises can't be covered. There are lots of financial risks. I agree, if your employer goes bust overnight as an employee , you struggle to get anything. You'll get ESA instead of SSP, as you have been told repeatedly! Remember that other thread where I was saying about public misconceptions? Its a misconception that self employed get no state assistance if they are sick, they do, it's called ESA. You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk "I'm asking you, genius, so that we all don't have to waste time? | |||
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" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk "Your actual expreience is meaningless. CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong. | |||
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" You'll also get no sick pay being self employed if you are sick, or you take someone on and they are sick. When you or they are sick, your self employemed work can't be done and the loans you took out to buy a van, tools, premises can't be covered. There are lots of financial risks. I agree, if your employer goes bust overnight as an employee , you struggle to get anything. You'll get ESA instead of SSP, as you have been told repeatedly! Remember that other thread where I was saying about public misconceptions? Its a misconception that self employed get no state assistance if they are sick, they do, it's called ESA. You will only focus one one part that you think you are right on. People have told you from experience that ESA is nigh on impossible to claim. Will you discuss any other aspect apart from ESA? My experience is that you only discuss the one aspect, that you think you are correct on. If any other point is made you ignore it. People do notice, it doesn't make you look clever or correct." Once we get one part cleared up, we can then move on to other parts. You seem to be stuck on sick pay and are still denying that there is government support for self employed people, when there is. Sorry, but I won't stand for this post truth nonsense. | |||
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" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong."They haven't mentioned their experience! | |||
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" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience! "I said I had tried to get it and they as good as told me to piss off! The only thing that they suggested was that if I was struggling, the other half might be able to claim tax credits. Great | |||
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" My experience is that you only discuss the one aspect, that you think you are correct on. If any other point is made you ignore it. People do notice, it doesn't make you look clever or correct. Once we get one part cleared up, we can then move on to other parts. You seem to be stuck on sick pay and are still denying that there is government support for self employed people, when there is. Sorry, but I won't stand for this post truth nonsense. " No, you ignore. e.g Fishing dumping, you left the thread. Aid to China, you left the thread. You won't answer any aspect of SE problems apart from one. You want to talk about toddlers listening to Gove. Complete waste of time. I have enjoyed many an hour debating issues with friends with wildly opposing views. This is tedium . | |||
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" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
I said I had tried to get it and they as good as told me to piss off! The only thing that they suggested was that if I was struggling, the other half might be able to claim tax credits. Great"So what was to condition and how long were you sick for? | |||
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" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
I said I had tried to get it and they as good as told me to piss off! The only thing that they suggested was that if I was struggling, the other half might be able to claim tax credits. Great
So what was to condition and how long were you sick for? "the guy didn't even bloody ask! | |||
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" My experience is that you only discuss the one aspect, that you think you are correct on. If any other point is made you ignore it. People do notice, it doesn't make you look clever or correct. Once we get one part cleared up, we can then move on to other parts. You seem to be stuck on sick pay and are still denying that there is government support for self employed people, when there is. Sorry, but I won't stand for this post truth nonsense. No, you ignore. e.g Fishing dumping, you left the thread. Aid to China, you left the thread. You won't answer any aspect of SE problems apart from one. You want to talk about toddlers listening to Gove. Complete waste of time. I have enjoyed many an hour debating issues with friends with wildly opposing views. This is tedium ." Aid to China £0 per year
Fish dumping, you blamed it solely on the EU, I proved it happened in every sea and ocean in the world
Toddlers don't care about Michael Gove
I have talked about other parts of self employment, such as holiday pay, which has nothing to do with national insurance, I explained that self employed people charge enough to cover their holidays. | |||
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"You would listen to experts then? Yes, I do. You can now reply about the experts advising 'remain' . Then others will say they got it wrong blahdy blah. If your way is to ignore posters who have day-day experience fine. " Actually, I pretty much agree with everything you have posted about the difficulties of self employment. The pressures are enormous. In my experience the self employed are the first to benefit in the good times and probably on balance over do it, but conversely, when times are tough, they tend to put others first ahead of themselves for as long as they can, often too long. Of course these days, with such erosion of workers rights and zero hours contracts, a lot of employees face many of the same challenges of the self employed. | |||
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" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
I said I had tried to get it and they as good as told me to piss off! The only thing that they suggested was that if I was struggling, the other half might be able to claim tax credits. Great
So what was to condition and how long were you sick for?
the guy didn't even bloody ask!"I'm asking. | |||
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" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
I said I had tried to get it and they as good as told me to piss off! The only thing that they suggested was that if I was struggling, the other half might be able to claim tax credits. Great
So what was to condition and how long were you sick for?
the guy didn't even bloody ask!
I'm asking."why, are you going to pay me next time I'm ill? | |||
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" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience! "Here is a C+P of a section in which you replied to Mercury and CandM: If you are self employed and unable to work you can claim Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) Have you ever tried to do this? I have and they as good as told me to piss off " Same here! Was a non starter trying to meet their criteria! Can you see where they mention their expereince? It is the bits where they say: "I have and they as good as told me to piss off " And "Same here! Was a non starter trying to meet their criteria!" | |||
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"To answer the opening question, the biggest budget sneak was really not doing very much because Hammond knows he has to build up a war chest for the looming Brexit costs." He can use the 2p tax rise and the 5% NHS funding cut that was implemented in Osbornes post referendum budget. | |||
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" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
I said I had tried to get it and they as good as told me to piss off! The only thing that they suggested was that if I was struggling, the other half might be able to claim tax credits. Great
So what was to condition and how long were you sick for?
the guy didn't even bloody ask!
I'm asking.
why, are you going to pay me next time I'm ill?"Well if you are not going to tell us the situation how do we know if your experience is valid or not? For all we know the reason why you couldn't or didn't claim is because you didn't pass the habitual residence test. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
Here is a C+P of a section in which you replied to Mercury and CandM:
If you are self employed and unable to work you can claim Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
Have you ever tried to do this?
I have and they as good as told me to piss off "
Same here! Was a non starter trying to meet their criteria!
Can you see where they mention their expereince?
It is the bits where they say:
"I have and they as good as told me to piss off "
And
"Same here! Was a non starter trying to meet their criteria!"
"So it sounds as though neither of those people ACTUALLY made a claim. I know people who have received ESA as a self employed person unable to work, and employed people who have transferred on to ESA after SSP ran out after 26 weeks. Does that experience count in your opinion? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
I said I had tried to get it and they as good as told me to piss off! The only thing that they suggested was that if I was struggling, the other half might be able to claim tax credits. Great
So what was to condition and how long were you sick for?
the guy didn't even bloody ask!
I'm asking.
why, are you going to pay me next time I'm ill?
Well if you are not going to tell us the situation how do we know if your experience is valid or not? For all we know the reason why you couldn't or didn't claim is because you didn't pass the habitual residence test. "no matter how long I spend in Spain I am a resident of the UK and thats where my business and work is. And the interview/claim got nowhere near as far as asking that! Mercury will probably tell you the same, I would suggest until you have tried it you keep an open mind | |||
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" I know people who have received ESA as a self employed person unable to work, and employed people who have transferred on to ESA after SSP ran out after 26 weeks. " Same here. It's not always straight forward though and it was a while ago. I don't imagine it has got easier if the way the disabled and other people on benefits are treat is anything to go by. Also, directors of small one man band companies are stuffed. | |||
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"Im all for self employed people ive been self employed most of my life but ive also been employed id like to say this. Being employed myths: if you have a good job at the BBC or the power plant you get some job security but most people dont work that type of good job, they work for very small employers and you have no more job security than a being self employed,I worked for three companies that just went bust overnight, found out the morning I turned up for work, got no redundancy, got no notice, I only took two days off sick and I only got paid statory gov pay about £40 I paid £50 a week ni on my last job and in reality only got 20 days paid holiday which came to £1800 a year! I prefer self employed it pays better but since they tightened the rules anybody employing you for half a year wants you cards in and then the gov screw you big time You'll also get no sick pay being self employed if you are sick, or you take someone on and they are sick. When you or they are sick, your self employemed work can't be done and the loans you took out to buy a van, tools, premises can't be covered. There are lots of financial risks. I agree, if your employer goes bust overnight as an employee , you struggle to get anything." . Yeah I know people who get full sick pay for weeks with there good job at the BBC but what I was saying is us people working in the lesser jobs dont get that, I got £40 for two days sick and they made me take 4 days of my holiday for crimbo because they shut the firm down, I had to write all my holidays for the year down on January 1st and if somebody had beaten you to the week you wanted you had to choose another, its not all a bed of roses being employed like I first thought. Id rather be sc60 but with regular 4 month contracts with same employer they force you to cards in and then rob you blind  | |||
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" So it sounds as though neither of those people ACTUALLY made a claim. I know people who have received ESA as a self employed person unable to work, and employed people who have transferred on to ESA after SSP ran out after 26 weeks. Does that experience count in your opinion? " All experience counts. I would say it sounds possible but incredibly difficult. It doesn't change the £73 / week being minimal help to a self emplyed business person, in terms of business costs and how they would arrange staff supervison in their absence. This has become very specific. The general overview point I am interested in is, there has to be a tax incentive for the self employed to cover the risks and their lack of access to employed benefits. Do you think they should be taxed at employee rates? | |||
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" no matter how long I spend in Spain I am a resident of the UK and thats where my business and work is. And the interview/claim got nowhere near as far as asking that! Mercury will probably tell you the same, I would suggest until you have tried it you keep an open mind" It actually does matter how much time you spend in Spain as to whether or not you pass the habitual residence test. I don't know you situation well enough to judge if you would or wouldn't pass it, but that most certainly would be taken into account. I have have said, I know the system, and have helped people successfully claim it. Maybe you should keep an open mind | |||
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" No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things
aka It doesn't concern you and legitimate concerns people who understand self employment can just be brushed aside??
Maybe, just maybe, listen and try to understand someone elses viewpoint. Sometimes they might have an insight on something that you haven't.
Learning from others' experiences can be very useful.
No, not that at all, I know how it works just fine thank you. Successful self employed people charge enough to cover their holidays. You can argue against that until you are blue in the face, you and other posters are just so opposed to anything that I say that you paint yourselves into ridiculous positions.
A couple of SE posters have told you that ESA is virtually u-nclaimable, so you concentrated on holiday pay.
Does a SE taking significant risk, i.e loans to fund tools, premises etc enter the equation?
If a SE person employees someone, that employee has full employment rights. If that employee goes sick then the SE employer has to cover sick pay from their own pocket and potentially the employees hours and workload to keep the company going. Can you imagine that being difficult?
I know nothing about fishing. If a fisherman told me certain aspects of fishing were difficult I would listen to what he said. I wouldn't do some internet research and contradict his years of experience. That would be idiotic.
Why do you assume that I dont have personal experience of self employment? "Because what you're saying about self employment is pathetic and idiotic, perhaps? | |||
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" No they don't, they charge more form their services during the weeks they are working to cover such things
aka It doesn't concern you and legitimate concerns people who understand self employment can just be brushed aside??
Maybe, just maybe, listen and try to understand someone elses viewpoint. Sometimes they might have an insight on something that you haven't.
Learning from others' experiences can be very useful.
No, not that at all, I know how it works just fine thank you. Successful self employed people charge enough to cover their holidays. You can argue against that until you are blue in the face, you and other posters are just so opposed to anything that I say that you paint yourselves into ridiculous positions.
A couple of SE posters have told you that ESA is virtually u-nclaimable, so you concentrated on holiday pay.
Does a SE taking significant risk, i.e loans to fund tools, premises etc enter the equation?
If a SE person employees someone, that employee has full employment rights. If that employee goes sick then the SE employer has to cover sick pay from their own pocket and potentially the employees hours and workload to keep the company going. Can you imagine that being difficult?
I know nothing about fishing. If a fisherman told me certain aspects of fishing were difficult I would listen to what he said. I wouldn't do some internet research and contradict his years of experience. That would be idiotic.
Why do you assume that I dont have personal experience of self employment? "Because if you'd had any experience of being self employed you wouldn't be talking such total bollocks. | |||
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" no matter how long I spend in Spain I am a resident of the UK and thats where my business and work is. And the interview/claim got nowhere near as far as asking that! Mercury will probably tell you the same, I would suggest until you have tried it you keep an open mind It actually does matter how much time you spend in Spain as to whether or not you pass the habitual residence test. I don't know you situation well enough to judge if you would or wouldn't pass it, but that most certainly would be taken into account. I have have said, I know the system, and have helped people successfully claim it. Maybe you should keep an open mind "You obviously don't know the system. The interview didn't get anywhere near far enough for residence to be taken into account. I was tiling at the time, hurt my back and needed a few weeks off. The claim was just dismissed out of hand with no further details asked for or given. As I said, all the guy said was that the Mrs. might be able to claim tax credits if we were struggling | |||
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" no matter how long I spend in Spain I am a resident of the UK and thats where my business and work is. And the interview/claim got nowhere near as far as asking that! Mercury will probably tell you the same, I would suggest until you have tried it you keep an open mind It actually does matter how much time you spend in Spain as to whether or not you pass the habitual residence test. I don't know you situation well enough to judge if you would or wouldn't pass it, but that most certainly would be taken into account. I have have said, I know the system, and have helped people successfully claim it. Maybe you should keep an open mind "you have helped SE people claim it? I'm sorry, nobodys mind is that open | |||
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" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience! "Many years ago, I had a hernia operation on a Friday. Discharged the same day, I given a medical certificate to keep me off work for 10 weeks. On the following Monday, I presented myself at Crown House (our benefits office) with said certificate. On interview, I was asked for a record of earnings, partner's earnings, savings, money owed etc. This meant going back and obtaining all that, and all for about £60 a week. On the Tuesday, I went back to work. There is a huge difference between the theoretical world and the real world. Yes, ESA does exist. Would love to know how many actually claim it. | |||
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"Centaur, why are you kicking up such a fuss about the rise in class 4 nic? Is it because it breaks a manifesto pledge really or that it might hit you in the pocket? Just wondering, like. " Did you answer this? | |||
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" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience! "Tell you what, why dont you go down to the DWP, tell them your self-employed and sick at the moment, ask them for ESA, and then come back and tell us how much you got. Then maybe, just maybe, you can talk with some degree of knowledge and experience, and not the utter bbullocks you usually spout. | |||
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" My experience is that you only discuss the one aspect, that you think you are correct on. If any other point is made you ignore it. People do notice, it doesn't make you look clever or correct. Once we get one part cleared up, we can then move on to other parts. You seem to be stuck on sick pay and are still denying that there is government support for self employed people, when there is. Sorry, but I won't stand for this post truth nonsense. No, you ignore. e.g Fishing dumping, you left the thread. Aid to China, you left the thread. You won't answer any aspect of SE problems apart from one. You want to talk about toddlers listening to Gove. Complete waste of time. I have enjoyed many an hour debating issues with friends with wildly opposing views. This is tedium ." Dont forget that they also think that the whole of the UK should have had a vote in the referendum.... All 68 Million. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
I said I had tried to get it and they as good as told me to piss off! The only thing that they suggested was that if I was struggling, the other half might be able to claim tax credits. Great
So what was to condition and how long were you sick for?
the guy didn't even bloody ask!
I'm asking.
why, are you going to pay me next time I'm ill?
Well if you are not going to tell us the situation how do we know if your experience is valid or not? For all we know the reason why you couldn't or didn't claim is because you didn't pass the habitual residence test. "Ok, a question for you... I'm self employed. I earn, when I'm working, £1,000 per week. I've just been ill, and thus has meant that I've had to take 3 weeks off work. How much eSA will I get? | |||
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" Dont forget that they also think that the whole of the UK should have had a vote in the referendum.... All 68 Million." Who said that? Is that you perhaps being a little confused when I said, in light of the referendum not being legally binding (with a sufficient threshold of support for change required of 2/3 or 3/4 as usual in such things), that MP's should take the narrow margin into account, but also use their judgement for all the people in the country who have a stake in the country, including future generations, who did not or were unable to vote? | |||
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" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
I said I had tried to get it and they as good as told me to piss off! The only thing that they suggested was that if I was struggling, the other half might be able to claim tax credits. Great
So what was to condition and how long were you sick for?
the guy didn't even bloody ask!
I'm asking.
why, are you going to pay me next time I'm ill?
Well if you are not going to tell us the situation how do we know if your experience is valid or not? For all we know the reason why you couldn't or didn't claim is because you didn't pass the habitual residence test.
Ok, a question for you...
I'm self employed. I earn, when I'm working, £1,000 per week. I've just been ill, and thus has meant that I've had to take 3 weeks off work.
How much eSA will I get?"I'll start.......£0, nothing | |||
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" I'm self employed. I earn, when I'm working, £1,000 per week. I've just been ill, and thus has meant that I've had to take 3 weeks off work. How much eSA will I get? I'll start.......£0, nothing" On ESA you'll probably get about £74 a week to begin with, possibly rising to £109 a week. On SSP an employee would get £88 a week. | |||
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" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
Many years ago, I had a hernia operation on a Friday. Discharged the same day, I given a medical certificate to keep me off work for 10 weeks. On the following Monday, I presented myself at Crown House (our benefits office) with said certificate. On interview, I was asked for a record of earnings, partner's earnings, savings, money owed etc. This meant going back and obtaining all that, and all for about £60 a week.
On the Tuesday, I went back to work.
There is a huge difference between the theoretical world and the real world.
Yes, ESA does exist. Would love to know how many actually claim it."So: * You never actually made an application * You wanted sick pay for 2 days off work (you wouldn't get that under SSP either) * You didn't take the relevant paperwork and were pissed off being asked to prove your situation and thought they should just take your word for it. Does that sum it up? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
Many years ago, I had a hernia operation on a Friday. Discharged the same day, I given a medical certificate to keep me off work for 10 weeks. On the following Monday, I presented myself at Crown House (our benefits office) with said certificate. On interview, I was asked for a record of earnings, partner's earnings, savings, money owed etc. This meant going back and obtaining all that, and all for about £60 a week.
On the Tuesday, I went back to work.
There is a huge difference between the theoretical world and the real world.
Yes, ESA does exist. Would love to know how many actually claim it.
So:
* You never actually made an application
* You wanted sick pay for 2 days off work (you wouldn't get that under SSP either)
* You didn't take the relevant paperwork and were pissed off being asked to prove your situation and thought they should just take your word for it.
Does that sum it up? "And does a PAYE employee have to go through all that? I was signed off, with relavent certificate for 10 weeks, but choose to return to work after 2 days, as I could not, either deal with all the hassle to collect less than 10% of my average weekly earnings, or live on that sum of money for 10 weeks. And that's even if I met their criteria, which I doubt. I have no problem with paying in, I have no problems with people claiming ESA or SSP if that's their choice. | |||
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" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
Many years ago, I had a hernia operation on a Friday. Discharged the same day, I given a medical certificate to keep me off work for 10 weeks. On the following Monday, I presented myself at Crown House (our benefits office) with said certificate. On interview, I was asked for a record of earnings, partner's earnings, savings, money owed etc. This meant going back and obtaining all that, and all for about £60 a week.
On the Tuesday, I went back to work.
There is a huge difference between the theoretical world and the real world.
Yes, ESA does exist. Would love to know how many actually claim it.
So:
* You never actually made an application
* You wanted sick pay for 2 days off work (you wouldn't get that under SSP either)
* You didn't take the relevant paperwork and were pissed off being asked to prove your situation and thought they should just take your word for it.
Does that sum it up? "so ESA is so readily available and easy to get that people feel the need to come to you and seek out your advanced wisdom in order to get it? And you can make it possible? Does that sum it up? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
Many years ago, I had a hernia operation on a Friday. Discharged the same day, I given a medical certificate to keep me off work for 10 weeks. On the following Monday, I presented myself at Crown House (our benefits office) with said certificate. On interview, I was asked for a record of earnings, partner's earnings, savings, money owed etc. This meant going back and obtaining all that, and all for about £60 a week.
On the Tuesday, I went back to work.
There is a huge difference between the theoretical world and the real world.
Yes, ESA does exist. Would love to know how many actually claim it.
So:
* You never actually made an application
* You wanted sick pay for 2 days off work (you wouldn't get that under SSP either)
* You didn't take the relevant paperwork and were pissed off being asked to prove your situation and thought they should just take your word for it.
Does that sum it up?
And does a PAYE employee have to go through all that?
I was signed off, with relavent certificate for 10 weeks, but choose to return to work after 2 days, as I could not, either deal with all the hassle to collect less than 10% of my average weekly earnings, or live on that sum of money for 10 weeks. And that's even if I met their criteria, which I doubt.
I have no problem with paying in, I have no problems with people claiming ESA or SSP if that's their choice.
"PAYE employees have to provide the sick note yes, and after 26 weeks they have to go through the exact same process yes. But to receive SSP they dont apply in the same way or prove their circumstances. Being an employee and being self employed are different. When you wanted to employ yourself did you take up references before offering yourself the role, no. When you wanted to employ yourself did you undergo medical screening? Did you have a rigorous application, interview and aptitude tests? Did you complete a DBS check on yourself before signing the contract? I'm guessing not. So there are differences, some times there is more admin at the start of a job, sometimes there is more when you're sick. | |||
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" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
Many years ago, I had a hernia operation on a Friday. Discharged the same day, I given a medical certificate to keep me off work for 10 weeks. On the following Monday, I presented myself at Crown House (our benefits office) with said certificate. On interview, I was asked for a record of earnings, partner's earnings, savings, money owed etc. This meant going back and obtaining all that, and all for about £60 a week.
On the Tuesday, I went back to work.
There is a huge difference between the theoretical world and the real world.
Yes, ESA does exist. Would love to know how many actually claim it.
So:
* You never actually made an application
* You wanted sick pay for 2 days off work (you wouldn't get that under SSP either)
* You didn't take the relevant paperwork and were pissed off being asked to prove your situation and thought they should just take your word for it.
Does that sum it up?
so ESA is so readily available and easy to get that people feel the need to come to you and seek out your advanced wisdom in order to get it? And you can make it possible? Does that sum it up?"Well you seem to be ignorant of the scheme, seeing as you have never managed a successful claim it sounds as though it was a little too tough for you and that you could have used some support. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
Many years ago, I had a hernia operation on a Friday. Discharged the same day, I given a medical certificate to keep me off work for 10 weeks. On the following Monday, I presented myself at Crown House (our benefits office) with said certificate. On interview, I was asked for a record of earnings, partner's earnings, savings, money owed etc. This meant going back and obtaining all that, and all for about £60 a week.
On the Tuesday, I went back to work.
There is a huge difference between the theoretical world and the real world.
Yes, ESA does exist. Would love to know how many actually claim it.
So:
* You never actually made an application
* You wanted sick pay for 2 days off work (you wouldn't get that under SSP either)
* You didn't take the relevant paperwork and were pissed off being asked to prove your situation and thought they should just take your word for it.
Does that sum it up?
so ESA is so readily available and easy to get that people feel the need to come to you and seek out your advanced wisdom in order to get it? And you can make it possible? Does that sum it up?
Well you seem to be ignorant of the scheme, seeing as you have never managed a successful claim it sounds as though it was a little too tough for you and that you could have used some support. "er no, I was simply told I didnt qualify. End of. So who comes to you for support? What can you give them that they can't do alone? | |||
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" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
Many years ago, I had a hernia operation on a Friday. Discharged the same day, I given a medical certificate to keep me off work for 10 weeks. On the following Monday, I presented myself at Crown House (our benefits office) with said certificate. On interview, I was asked for a record of earnings, partner's earnings, savings, money owed etc. This meant going back and obtaining all that, and all for about £60 a week.
On the Tuesday, I went back to work.
There is a huge difference between the theoretical world and the real world.
Yes, ESA does exist. Would love to know how many actually claim it.
So:
* You never actually made an application
* You wanted sick pay for 2 days off work (you wouldn't get that under SSP either)
* You didn't take the relevant paperwork and were pissed off being asked to prove your situation and thought they should just take your word for it.
Does that sum it up?
so ESA is so readily available and easy to get that people feel the need to come to you and seek out your advanced wisdom in order to get it? And you can make it possible? Does that sum it up?
Well you seem to be ignorant of the scheme, seeing as you have never managed a successful claim it sounds as though it was a little too tough for you and that you could have used some support.
er no, I was simply told I didnt qualify. End of. So who comes to you for support? What can you give them that they can't do alone?"And what reason where you given for not qualifying? Was it the habitual residence test? | |||
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" I have have said, I know the system, and have helped people successfully claim it. Maybe you should keep an open mind
"CLCC, why would people need help claiming ESA? I assume you just told them it existed and they went and got it? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
Many years ago, I had a hernia operation on a Friday. Discharged the same day, I given a medical certificate to keep me off work for 10 weeks. On the following Monday, I presented myself at Crown House (our benefits office) with said certificate. On interview, I was asked for a record of earnings, partner's earnings, savings, money owed etc. This meant going back and obtaining all that, and all for about £60 a week.
On the Tuesday, I went back to work.
There is a huge difference between the theoretical world and the real world.
Yes, ESA does exist. Would love to know how many actually claim it.
So:
* You never actually made an application
* You wanted sick pay for 2 days off work (you wouldn't get that under SSP either)
* You didn't take the relevant paperwork and were pissed off being asked to prove your situation and thought they should just take your word for it.
Does that sum it up?
so ESA is so readily available and easy to get that people feel the need to come to you and seek out your advanced wisdom in order to get it? And you can make it possible? Does that sum it up?
Well you seem to be ignorant of the scheme, seeing as you have never managed a successful claim it sounds as though it was a little too tough for you and that you could have used some support.
er no, I was simply told I didnt qualify. End of. So who comes to you for support? What can you give them that they can't do alone?
And what reason where you given for not qualifying? Was it the habitual residence test? "er no, it was because the Mrs. worked. Though what that has to do with sick pay for me I don't know. Do you? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
Many years ago, I had a hernia operation on a Friday. Discharged the same day, I given a medical certificate to keep me off work for 10 weeks. On the following Monday, I presented myself at Crown House (our benefits office) with said certificate. On interview, I was asked for a record of earnings, partner's earnings, savings, money owed etc. This meant going back and obtaining all that, and all for about £60 a week.
On the Tuesday, I went back to work.
There is a huge difference between the theoretical world and the real world.
Yes, ESA does exist. Would love to know how many actually claim it.
So:
* You never actually made an application
* You wanted sick pay for 2 days off work (you wouldn't get that under SSP either)
* You didn't take the relevant paperwork and were pissed off being asked to prove your situation and thought they should just take your word for it.
Does that sum it up?
so ESA is so readily available and easy to get that people feel the need to come to you and seek out your advanced wisdom in order to get it? And you can make it possible? Does that sum it up?
Well you seem to be ignorant of the scheme, seeing as you have never managed a successful claim it sounds as though it was a little too tough for you and that you could have used some support.
er no, I was simply told I didnt qualify. End of. So who comes to you for support? What can you give them that they can't do alone?
And what reason where you given for not qualifying? Was it the habitual residence test?
er no, it was because the Mrs. worked. Though what that has to do with sick pay for me I don't know. Do you?"It sounds like you were trying to claim income based ESA rather than contribution based ESA. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I have have said, I know the system, and have helped people successfully claim it. Maybe you should keep an open mind
CLCC, why would people need help claiming ESA? I assume you just told them it existed and they went and got it?"Can't you see how confused people on this forum are about ESA? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
Many years ago, I had a hernia operation on a Friday. Discharged the same day, I given a medical certificate to keep me off work for 10 weeks. On the following Monday, I presented myself at Crown House (our benefits office) with said certificate. On interview, I was asked for a record of earnings, partner's earnings, savings, money owed etc. This meant going back and obtaining all that, and all for about £60 a week.
On the Tuesday, I went back to work.
There is a huge difference between the theoretical world and the real world.
Yes, ESA does exist. Would love to know how many actually claim it.
So:
* You never actually made an application
* You wanted sick pay for 2 days off work (you wouldn't get that under SSP either)
* You didn't take the relevant paperwork and were pissed off being asked to prove your situation and thought they should just take your word for it.
Does that sum it up?
so ESA is so readily available and easy to get that people feel the need to come to you and seek out your advanced wisdom in order to get it? And you can make it possible? Does that sum it up?
Well you seem to be ignorant of the scheme, seeing as you have never managed a successful claim it sounds as though it was a little too tough for you and that you could have used some support.
er no, I was simply told I didnt qualify. End of. So who comes to you for support? What can you give them that they can't do alone?
And what reason where you given for not qualifying? Was it the habitual residence test?
er no, it was because the Mrs. worked. Though what that has to do with sick pay for me I don't know. Do you?
It sounds like you were trying to claim income based ESA rather than contribution based ESA. "no I wasn't | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
Many years ago, I had a hernia operation on a Friday. Discharged the same day, I given a medical certificate to keep me off work for 10 weeks. On the following Monday, I presented myself at Crown House (our benefits office) with said certificate. On interview, I was asked for a record of earnings, partner's earnings, savings, money owed etc. This meant going back and obtaining all that, and all for about £60 a week.
On the Tuesday, I went back to work.
There is a huge difference between the theoretical world and the real world.
Yes, ESA does exist. Would love to know how many actually claim it.
So:
* You never actually made an application
* You wanted sick pay for 2 days off work (you wouldn't get that under SSP either)
* You didn't take the relevant paperwork and were pissed off being asked to prove your situation and thought they should just take your word for it.
Does that sum it up?
so ESA is so readily available and easy to get that people feel the need to come to you and seek out your advanced wisdom in order to get it? And you can make it possible? Does that sum it up?
Well you seem to be ignorant of the scheme, seeing as you have never managed a successful claim it sounds as though it was a little too tough for you and that you could have used some support.
er no, I was simply told I didnt qualify. End of. So who comes to you for support? What can you give them that they can't do alone?
And what reason where you given for not qualifying? Was it the habitual residence test?
er no, it was because the Mrs. worked. Though what that has to do with sick pay for me I don't know. Do you?
It sounds like you were trying to claim income based ESA rather than contribution based ESA.
no I wasn't"So you specifically told them that you wanted to claim contribution based did you? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
Many years ago, I had a hernia operation on a Friday. Discharged the same day, I given a medical certificate to keep me off work for 10 weeks. On the following Monday, I presented myself at Crown House (our benefits office) with said certificate. On interview, I was asked for a record of earnings, partner's earnings, savings, money owed etc. This meant going back and obtaining all that, and all for about £60 a week.
On the Tuesday, I went back to work.
There is a huge difference between the theoretical world and the real world.
Yes, ESA does exist. Would love to know how many actually claim it.
So:
* You never actually made an application
* You wanted sick pay for 2 days off work (you wouldn't get that under SSP either)
* You didn't take the relevant paperwork and were pissed off being asked to prove your situation and thought they should just take your word for it.
Does that sum it up?
so ESA is so readily available and easy to get that people feel the need to come to you and seek out your advanced wisdom in order to get it? And you can make it possible? Does that sum it up?
Well you seem to be ignorant of the scheme, seeing as you have never managed a successful claim it sounds as though it was a little too tough for you and that you could have used some support.
er no, I was simply told I didnt qualify. End of. So who comes to you for support? What can you give them that they can't do alone?
And what reason where you given for not qualifying? Was it the habitual residence test?
er no, it was because the Mrs. worked. Though what that has to do with sick pay for me I don't know. Do you?
It sounds like you were trying to claim income based ESA rather than contribution based ESA.
no I wasn't
So you specifically told them that you wanted to claim contribution based did you? "I said either. So what would qualify me for that? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I have have said, I know the system, and have helped people successfully claim it. Maybe you should keep an open mind
CLCC, why would people need help claiming ESA? I assume you just told them it existed and they went and got it?
Can't you see how confused people on this forum are about ESA? "I.e complex to claim, and destined to not pay out. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I have have said, I know the system, and have helped people successfully claim it. Maybe you should keep an open mind
CLCC, why would people need help claiming ESA? I assume you just told them it existed and they went and got it?
Can't you see how confused people on this forum are about ESA?
I.e complex to claim, and destined to not pay out."All the people I know have received it. I guess the key difference is that that actually applied for it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I have have said, I know the system, and have helped people successfully claim it. Maybe you should keep an open mind
CLCC, why would people need help claiming ESA? I assume you just told them it existed and they went and got it?
Can't you see how confused people on this forum are about ESA?
I.e complex to claim, and destined to not pay out.
All the people I know have received it. I guess the key difference is that that actually applied for it. "You know the system and helped them claim. Others don't. There experience explains that. So, do all the other SE risks warrant any tax advantages, or do you favour equal tax and NI for both groups? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
Many years ago, I had a hernia operation on a Friday. Discharged the same day, I given a medical certificate to keep me off work for 10 weeks. On the following Monday, I presented myself at Crown House (our benefits office) with said certificate. On interview, I was asked for a record of earnings, partner's earnings, savings, money owed etc. This meant going back and obtaining all that, and all for about £60 a week.
On the Tuesday, I went back to work.
There is a huge difference between the theoretical world and the real world.
Yes, ESA does exist. Would love to know how many actually claim it.
So:
* You never actually made an application
* You wanted sick pay for 2 days off work (you wouldn't get that under SSP either)
* You didn't take the relevant paperwork and were pissed off being asked to prove your situation and thought they should just take your word for it.
Does that sum it up?
so ESA is so readily available and easy to get that people feel the need to come to you and seek out your advanced wisdom in order to get it? And you can make it possible? Does that sum it up?
Well you seem to be ignorant of the scheme, seeing as you have never managed a successful claim it sounds as though it was a little too tough for you and that you could have used some support.
er no, I was simply told I didnt qualify. End of. So who comes to you for support? What can you give them that they can't do alone?
And what reason where you given for not qualifying? Was it the habitual residence test?
er no, it was because the Mrs. worked. Though what that has to do with sick pay for me I don't know. Do you?
It sounds like you were trying to claim income based ESA rather than contribution based ESA.
no I wasn't
So you specifically told them that you wanted to claim contribution based did you?
I said either. So what would qualify me for that?"I don't know your full situation, maybe you didn't have the correct and full NI contributions to qualify for contribution based, and so you could only apply for income based. From what you have said, it doesn't sound to me as though you ever actually made a claim. Had you made a claim, then you would have either received an award letter or a decision letter stating the reasons you were not eligible. At that stage you could have then asked for a mandatory reconsideration, and if that was unsuccessful you could have asked to appeal it, if that was still unsuccessful you could take it to a tribunal. There is one thing common to all people who have received ESA, they all made a claim. I don't think you made a claim. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I have have said, I know the system, and have helped people successfully claim it. Maybe you should keep an open mind
CLCC, why would people need help claiming ESA? I assume you just told them it existed and they went and got it?
Can't you see how confused people on this forum are about ESA?
I.e complex to claim, and destined to not pay out.
All the people I know have received it. I guess the key difference is that that actually applied for it.
You know the system and helped them claim. Others don't. There experience explains that.
So, do all the other SE risks warrant any tax advantages, or do you favour equal tax and NI for both groups?
"I favour equal National Insurance contributions for both groups, there are already huge tax breaks and incentives for self employed people, but that is a different topic all together and one not impacted by the budget. I know that other's dont know the system, and that goes back to my key point, that public misconception is a huge problem in politics today. How many times will we all have heard on the news that "self employed people can't get sick pay" and how many times have you heard them be corrected and told that they can claim ESA? I'm going to guess not once. Is it right to perpetuate this myth which must surely have resulted in millions of pounds of benefit not being paid out to self employed people who were entitled to that money? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It sounds like you were trying to claim income based ESA rather than contribution based ESA. no I wasn't So you specifically told them that you wanted to claim contribution based did you? I said either. So what would qualify me for that? I don't know your full situation, maybe you didn't have the correct and full NI contributions to qualify for contribution based, and so you could only apply for income based. From what you have said, it doesn't sound to me as though you ever actually made a claim. Had you made a claim, then you would have either received an award letter or a decision letter stating the reasons you were not eligible. At that stage you could have then asked for a mandatory reconsideration, and if that was unsuccessful you could have asked to appeal it, if that was still unsuccessful you could take it to a tribunal. There is one thing common to all people who have received ESA, they all made a claim. I don't think you made a claim." What you are failing to understand or choosing to ignore, is a) dss will attempt to not help, to avoid paying b) unless you know the system well, like it sounds like you do, the claim will fail or not even begin. Can you see the non-clarity of the system prevents claims? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've obviously never tried it. And what qualifies a SE person to get ESA? Check out .gov.uk
Your actual expreience is meaningless.
CLCC has looked on the internet. He's right, you're wrong.
They haven't mentioned their experience!
Many years ago, I had a hernia operation on a Friday. Discharged the same day, I given a medical certificate to keep me off work for 10 weeks. On the following Monday, I presented myself at Crown House (our benefits office) with said certificate. On interview, I was asked for a record of earnings, partner's earnings, savings, money owed etc. This meant going back and obtaining all that, and all for about £60 a week.
On the Tuesday, I went back to work.
There is a huge difference between the theoretical world and the real world.
Yes, ESA does exist. Would love to know how many actually claim it.
So:
* You never actually made an application
* You wanted sick pay for 2 days off work (you wouldn't get that under SSP either)
* You didn't take the relevant paperwork and were pissed off being asked to prove your situation and thought they should just take your word for it.
Does that sum it up?
so ESA is so readily available and easy to get that people feel the need to come to you and seek out your advanced wisdom in order to get it? And you can make it possible? Does that sum it up?
Well you seem to be ignorant of the scheme, seeing as you have never managed a successful claim it sounds as though it was a little too tough for you and that you could have used some support.
er no, I was simply told I didnt qualify. End of. So who comes to you for support? What can you give them that they can't do alone?
And what reason where you given for not qualifying? Was it the habitual residence test?
er no, it was because the Mrs. worked. Though what that has to do with sick pay for me I don't know. Do you?
It sounds like you were trying to claim income based ESA rather than contribution based ESA.
no I wasn't
So you specifically told them that you wanted to claim contribution based did you?
I said either. So what would qualify me for that?
I don't know your full situation, maybe you didn't have the correct and full NI contributions to qualify for contribution based, and so you could only apply for income based.
From what you have said, it doesn't sound to me as though you ever actually made a claim. Had you made a claim, then you would have either received an award letter or a decision letter stating the reasons you were not eligible. At that stage you could have then asked for a mandatory reconsideration, and if that was unsuccessful you could have asked to appeal it, if that was still unsuccessful you could take it to a tribunal.
There is one thing common to all people who have received ESA, they all made a claim. I don't think you made a claim."so I'm a liar again now?
But one thing you have confirmed for us is how 'easy' it is to claim ESA. Thanks | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I have have said, I know the system, and have helped people successfully claim it. Maybe you should keep an open mind
CLCC, why would people need help claiming ESA? I assume you just told them it existed and they went and got it?
Can't you see how confused people on this forum are about ESA?
I.e complex to claim, and destined to not pay out.
All the people I know have received it. I guess the key difference is that that actually applied for it.
You know the system and helped them claim. Others don't. There experience explains that.
So, do all the other SE risks warrant any tax advantages, or do you favour equal tax and NI for both groups?
I favour equal National Insurance contributions for both groups, there are already huge tax breaks and incentives for self employed people, but that is a different topic all together and one not impacted by the budget.
I know that other's dont know the system, and that goes back to my key point, that public misconception is a huge problem in politics today. How many times will we all have heard on the news that "self employed people can't get sick pay" and how many times have you heard them be corrected and told that they can claim ESA? I'm going to guess not once.
Is it right to perpetuate this myth which must surely have resulted in millions of pounds of benefit not being paid out to self employed people who were entitled to that money? "Ok. You favour equal ni, hence your portrayal that employed and se get the same benefits, that makes sense now. What about the other points raised regards risk and paying sick staff? When your equal tax and NI sytem will completely shafy millions of SE working people. A ludicrous idea. It was impacted by the budget, NI increased. No, I've never seen the government advisory leaflet that helps SE people get ESA, where can that be found? The system is purposely complex to reduce claims. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It sounds like you were trying to claim income based ESA rather than contribution based ESA. no I wasn't So you specifically told them that you wanted to claim contribution based did you? I said either. So what would qualify me for that? I don't know your full situation, maybe you didn't have the correct and full NI contributions to qualify for contribution based, and so you could only apply for income based. From what you have said, it doesn't sound to me as though you ever actually made a claim. Had you made a claim, then you would have either received an award letter or a decision letter stating the reasons you were not eligible. At that stage you could have then asked for a mandatory reconsideration, and if that was unsuccessful you could have asked to appeal it, if that was still unsuccessful you could take it to a tribunal. There is one thing common to all people who have received ESA, they all made a claim. I don't think you made a claim. What you are failing to understand or choosing to ignore, is a) dss will attempt to not help, to avoid paying b) unless you know the system well, like it sounds like you do, the claim will fail or not even begin. Can you see the non-clarity of the system prevents claims?" Can you see that I am trying to tell people that they are entitled to it, and to claim for it, and that you are trying to claim that it doesn't exist, or that their claim wont be successful, so they shouldn't even bother? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I have have said, I know the system, and have helped people successfully claim it. Maybe you should keep an open mind
CLCC, why would people need help claiming ESA? I assume you just told them it existed and they went and got it?
Can't you see how confused people on this forum are about ESA?
I.e complex to claim, and destined to not pay out.
All the people I know have received it. I guess the key difference is that that actually applied for it.
You know the system and helped them claim. Others don't. There experience explains that.
So, do all the other SE risks warrant any tax advantages, or do you favour equal tax and NI for both groups?
I favour equal National Insurance contributions for both groups, there are already huge tax breaks and incentives for self employed people, but that is a different topic all together and one not impacted by the budget.
I know that other's dont know the system, and that goes back to my key point, that public misconception is a huge problem in politics today. How many times will we all have heard on the news that "self employed people can't get sick pay" and how many times have you heard them be corrected and told that they can claim ESA? I'm going to guess not once.
Is it right to perpetuate this myth which must surely have resulted in millions of pounds of benefit not being paid out to self employed people who were entitled to that money?
Ok. You favour equal ni, hence your portrayal that employed and se get the same benefits, that makes sense now. What about the other points raised regards risk and paying sick staff? When your equal tax and NI sytem will completely shafy millions of SE working people. A ludicrous idea.
It was impacted by the budget, NI increased.
No, I've never seen the government advisory leaflet that helps SE people get ESA, where can that be found? The system is purposely complex to reduce claims.
"national insurance and tax are two different things, my post is very clear that the budget only changed the NI contributions for self employed people, not the tax for self employed people, yet in your response you have lumped them together. Paying sick staff is about responsibilities of an employer, which not all self employed people are. As an employer you have to give them statutory rights, such as the right for that employee to claim SSP, or you can also chose to give them additional contractual right such as sick pay paid at a rate higher than SSP. I don't really understand what point you are trying to make though as this is an employer-employee relationship and therefore not self employed. Yes there are risks to being self employed, which I have repeated stated and you have chosen to ignore, but there are also benefits which again I have mentioned. I am not aware of a specific government leaflet aimed directly at self employed people regarding ESA, but that doesn't mean that there isn't one. Even if there isn't I don't really understand why you seem to be proportioning personal responsibility for such a deficit at me. It does however say on the gov.uk website that self employed people can claim ESA when sick. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Self employed people can have employees. A major financial risk to a small business. You won't want to understand. Nice slight of hand with tax / NI, but most common sense people in a conversation combine the two for simplicity. As usual, you have a belief and then portray every single aspect of it to good. Never pros's and con's. Another wasted thread." Not a waste, hopefully you are now more aware of some of the support available to self employed people, and will stop perpetuating the myth that there is no sick pay | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Self employed people can have employees. A major financial risk to a small business. You won't want to understand. Nice slight of hand with tax / NI, but most common sense people in a conversation combine the two for simplicity. As usual, you have a belief and then portray every single aspect of it to good. Never pros's and con's. Another wasted thread. Not a waste, hopefully you are now more aware of some of the support available to self employed people, and will stop perpetuating the myth that there is no sick pay "Thanks I'll pass the advice on so they can go to CAB and get assistance on the complex process. Now how about the other costs of self employment you were going to answer..... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Self employed people can have employees. A major financial risk to a small business. You won't want to understand. Nice slight of hand with tax / NI, but most common sense people in a conversation combine the two for simplicity. As usual, you have a belief and then portray every single aspect of it to good. Never pros's and con's. Another wasted thread. Not a waste, hopefully you are now more aware of some of the support available to self employed people, and will stop perpetuating the myth that there is no sick pay
Thanks I'll pass the advice on so they can go to CAB and get assistance on the complex process.
Now how about the other costs of self employment you were going to answer....."Some people find it complex, some people don't. Yes there are costs to being self employed, there are pros and cons of being employed, and there are pros and cons of being self employed. It's up to individuals to decide which is better for them, don't you agree? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Thanks I'll pass the advice on so they can go to CAB and get assistance on the complex process. Now how about the other costs of self employment you were going to answer..... Some people find it complex, some people don't. Yes there are costs to being self employed, there are pros and cons of being employed, and there are pros and cons of being self employed. It's up to individuals to decide which is better for them, don't you agree? " I disagree, but not interested in discussing it with you. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Thanks I'll pass the advice on so they can go to CAB and get assistance on the complex process. Now how about the other costs of self employment you were going to answer..... Some people find it complex, some people don't. Yes there are costs to being self employed, there are pros and cons of being employed, and there are pros and cons of being self employed. It's up to individuals to decide which is better for them, don't you agree? I disagree, but not interested in discussing it with you." You disagree? Who do you think should get to decide if someone should go self employed or for an employed position then? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I'm self employed. I earn, when I'm working, £1,000 per week. I've just been ill, and thus has meant that I've had to take 3 weeks off work. How much eSA will I get? I'll start.......£0, nothing On ESA you'll probably get about £74 a week to begin with, possibly rising to £109 a week. On SSP an employee would get £88 a week. " But you're not an employee, you're self employed! FFS. ..you haven't got a fucking clcluster you're talking about. Have you ever been self-employed and tried to claim ESA or SSP? Thought not. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Thanks I'll pass the advice on so they can go to CAB and get assistance on the complex process. Now how about the other costs of self employment you were going to answer..... Some people find it complex, some people don't. Yes there are costs to being self employed, there are pros and cons of being employed, and there are pros and cons of being self employed. It's up to individuals to decide which is better for them, don't you agree? I disagree, but not interested in discussing it with you. You disagree? Who do you think should get to decide if someone should go self employed or for an employed position then? "Your diversionary answers are politician type in avoiding other peoples points and opinions. That is why the discussion is so very boring. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I'm self employed. I earn, when I'm working, £1,000 per week. I've just been ill, and thus has meant that I've had to take 3 weeks off work. How much eSA will I get? I'll start.......£0, nothing On ESA you'll probably get about £74 a week to begin with, possibly rising to £109 a week. On SSP an employee would get £88 a week. But you're not an employee, you're self employed! FFS. ..you haven't got a fucking clcluster you're talking about. Have you ever been self-employed and tried to claim ESA or SSP? Thought not." I was describing the two scheme so you could see how they compare. Self employed people can claim ESA, employed people can claim SSP. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Thanks I'll pass the advice on so they can go to CAB and get assistance on the complex process. Now how about the other costs of self employment you were going to answer..... Some people find it complex, some people don't. Yes there are costs to being self employed, there are pros and cons of being employed, and there are pros and cons of being self employed. It's up to individuals to decide which is better for them, don't you agree? I disagree, but not interested in discussing it with you. You disagree? Who do you think should get to decide if someone should go self employed or for an employed position then?
Your diversionary answers are politician type in avoiding other peoples points and opinions. That is why the discussion is so very boring."Why don't you believe people should get to make the decision themselves to be self employed or not? Do you really think the government would be better placed to make that decision? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Thanks I'll pass the advice on so they can go to CAB and get assistance on the complex process. Now how about the other costs of self employment you were going to answer..... Some people find it complex, some people don't. Yes there are costs to being self employed, there are pros and cons of being employed, and there are pros and cons of being self employed. It's up to individuals to decide which is better for them, don't you agree? I disagree, but not interested in discussing it with you. You disagree? Who do you think should get to decide if someone should go self employed or for an employed position then?
Your diversionary answers are politician type in avoiding other peoples points and opinions. That is why the discussion is so very boring.
Why don't you believe people should get to make the decision themselves to be self employed or not? Do you really think the government would be better placed to make that decision? "This is an example of purposely twisting an answer. It's not clever it is boring. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Thanks I'll pass the advice on so they can go to CAB and get assistance on the complex process. Now how about the other costs of self employment you were going to answer..... Some people find it complex, some people don't. Yes there are costs to being self employed, there are pros and cons of being employed, and there are pros and cons of being self employed. It's up to individuals to decide which is better for them, don't you agree? I disagree, but not interested in discussing it with you. You disagree? Who do you think should get to decide if someone should go self employed or for an employed position then?
Your diversionary answers are politician type in avoiding other peoples points and opinions. That is why the discussion is so very boring.
Why don't you believe people should get to make the decision themselves to be self employed or not? Do you really think the government would be better placed to make that decision?
This is an example of purposely twisting an answer. It's not clever it is boring."I asked you if you agreed that individuals are best placed to decide whats best for them and you said that you disagreed. Quite simple and straightforward, how has that been twisted? Or maybe you disagree that there are both pros and cons to being self employed? And that there are pros and cons to being employed? Or maybe, just maybe, you pay more attention to the poster than what's being said. If I said the earth is spherical and goes around the sun you would probably try to argue something different. | |||
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" Yawn " Cop out | |||
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