FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Brexits exit fee from the eu.
Brexits exit fee from the eu.
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Britain will be handed a £50bn exit bill by the eu when may triggers article 50, chief negotiator for brussels warns, does that mean they cant leave until they have payed it all? So it could take up to 10 years as it is alot and no matter how much she negotiates, they wont bend the rules." That's strange last week our people they said that legally we wouldn't have to pay them a penny. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Britain will be handed a £50bn exit bill by the eu when may triggers article 50, chief negotiator for brussels warns, does that mean they cant leave until they have payed it all? So it could take up to 10 years as it is alot and no matter how much she negotiates, they wont bend the rules. That's strange last week our people they said that legally we wouldn't have to pay them a penny." I see, we will see what will happen soon. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No you dont understand. Because BMW want to sell a few cars to the UK the EU will drop the £50bn bill. "lol yes as they want the good cars too. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Britain will be handed a £50bn exit bill by the eu when may triggers article 50, chief negotiator for brussels warns, does that mean they cant leave until they have payed it all? So it could take up to 10 years as it is alot and no matter how much she negotiates, they wont bend the rules." The EU can whistle for it, our government should tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Britain will be handed a £50bn exit bill by the eu when may triggers article 50, chief negotiator for brussels warns, does that mean they cant leave until they have payed it all? So it could take up to 10 years as it is alot and no matter how much she negotiates, they wont bend the rules. The EU can whistle for it, our government should tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine. " Interesting perspective. We break an agreement. The bill is £30-60bn. Fine. Then we expect other countries to sign trade agreements with us?  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Britain will be handed a £50bn exit bill by the eu when may triggers article 50, chief negotiator for brussels warns, does that mean they cant leave until they have payed it all? So it could take up to 10 years as it is alot and no matter how much she negotiates, they wont bend the rules." As others have said there is no legal obligation to pay any exit fee . Once the negotiations start the EU might even want to pay us to stay in . They are hardly likely to want to lose our contribution ( we are the third largest net contributor ) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
I love how deeply the brexiters heads are buried in the sand.
Brexiters keep saying that the UK should dictate terms to the EU because the UK is in the stronger position.
And yet the UK couldnt even set the terms of the talks. They wanted to talk about the EU citizens in the UK and the Brits living in the EU and they were put in their place and told that no, we'll talk about it when the EU ddcides to talk about it.
The UK claims its going to get a sweetheart deal but instead it gets hit with a 50bn bill to leave.
The Brexit campaigners claim that they will keep access to the single market if they want it. The EU shut that down and say its not going to happen.
The UK is in such a weak negotiating position and Brexiters keep pretending that they're necessary to the EU and that the EU will come crawling to them | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Britain will be handed a £50bn exit bill by the eu when may triggers article 50, chief negotiator for brussels warns, does that mean they cant leave until they have payed it all? So it could take up to 10 years as it is alot and no matter how much she negotiates, they wont bend the rules. The EU can whistle for it, our government should tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine. Interesting perspective. We break an agreement. The bill is £30-60bn. Fine. Then we expect other countries to sign trade agreements with us? "Yes they are already queuing up to do deals with us. We are first in the queue for a trade deal with the USA and seeing as President Donald Trump dislikes the EU he'll probably give us a bonus for telling the EU where to stick it.  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Britain will be handed a £50bn exit bill by the eu when may triggers article 50, chief negotiator for brussels warns, does that mean they cant leave until they have payed it all? So it could take up to 10 years as it is alot and no matter how much she negotiates, they wont bend the rules. The EU can whistle for it, our government should tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine. Interesting perspective. We break an agreement. The bill is £30-60bn. Fine. Then we expect other countries to sign trade agreements with us?
Yes they are already queuing up to do deals with us. We are first in the queue for a trade deal with the USA and seeing as President Donald Trump dislikes the EU he'll probably give us a bonus for telling the EU where to stick it. "No matter how many times this gets shot down you keep repeating it. Yawn. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"
I love how deeply the brexiters heads are buried in the sand.
Brexiters keep saying that the UK should dictate terms to the EU because the UK is in the stronger position.
And yet the UK couldnt even set the terms of the talks. They wanted to talk about the EU citizens in the UK and the Brits living in the EU and they were put in their place and told that no, we'll talk about it when the EU ddcides to talk about it.
The UK claims its going to get a sweetheart deal but instead it gets hit with a 50bn bill to leave.
The Brexit campaigners claim that they will keep access to the single market if they want it. The EU shut that down and say its not going to happen.
The UK is in such a weak negotiating position and Brexiters keep pretending that they're necessary to the EU and that the EU will come crawling to them "Your first point on EU citizens and UK citizens just proves it's the EU using its people as bargaining chips and not the UK. Your 2nd point about the 50m exit bill, legally the UK has no obligation to pay it. Your 3rd point about the single market, the UK government position is to leave the single market, we don't want to be in it. On your last point, Teresa May has said no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK. We can walk away from the table and go into WTO terms with the EU. This will be a very good settlement for the UK we can then go out into the world and immediately sign the many bilateral trade deals with countries who are already queuing up to do trade deals with us. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"
I love how deeply the brexiters heads are buried in the sand.
Brexiters keep saying that the UK should dictate terms to the EU because the UK is in the stronger position.
And yet the UK couldnt even set the terms of the talks. They wanted to talk about the EU citizens in the UK and the Brits living in the EU and they were put in their place and told that no, we'll talk about it when the EU ddcides to talk about it.
The UK claims its going to get a sweetheart deal but instead it gets hit with a 50bn bill to leave.
The Brexit campaigners claim that they will keep access to the single market if they want it. The EU shut that down and say its not going to happen.
The UK is in such a weak negotiating position and Brexiters keep pretending that they're necessary to the EU and that the EU will come crawling to them
Your first point on EU citizens and UK citizens just proves it's the EU using its people as bargaining chips and not the UK.
Your 2nd point about the 50m exit bill, legally the UK has no obligation to pay it.
Your 3rd point about the single market, the UK government position is to leave the single market, we don't want to be in it.
On your last point, Teresa May has said no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK. We can walk away from the table and go into WTO terms with the EU. This will be a very good settlement for the UK we can then go out into the world and immediately sign the many bilateral trade deals with countries who are already queuing up to do trade deals with us.
"Yes pumpkin, and the Easter bunny gets here soon too. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"
I love how deeply the brexiters heads are buried in the sand.
Brexiters keep saying that the UK should dictate terms to the EU because the UK is in the stronger position.
And yet the UK couldnt even set the terms of the talks. They wanted to talk about the EU citizens in the UK and the Brits living in the EU and they were put in their place and told that no, we'll talk about it when the EU ddcides to talk about it.
The UK claims its going to get a sweetheart deal but instead it gets hit with a 50bn bill to leave.
The Brexit campaigners claim that they will keep access to the single market if they want it. The EU shut that down and say its not going to happen.
The UK is in such a weak negotiating position and Brexiters keep pretending that they're necessary to the EU and that the EU will come crawling to them
Your first point on EU citizens and UK citizens just proves it's the EU using its people as bargaining chips and not the UK.
Your 2nd point about the 50m exit bill, legally the UK has no obligation to pay it.
Your 3rd point about the single market, the UK government position is to leave the single market, we don't want to be in it.
On your last point, Teresa May has said no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK. We can walk away from the table and go into WTO terms with the EU. This will be a very good settlement for the UK we can then go out into the world and immediately sign the many bilateral trade deals with countries who are already queuing up to do trade deals with us.
Yes pumpkin, and the Easter bunny gets here soon too."USA, India, China, South Korea, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, just a few of the many countries already in the queue chomping at the bit to sign a trade deal with a free and independent Uk. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"
I love how deeply the brexiters heads are buried in the sand.
Brexiters keep saying that the UK should dictate terms to the EU because the UK is in the stronger position.
And yet the UK couldnt even set the terms of the talks. They wanted to talk about the EU citizens in the UK and the Brits living in the EU and they were put in their place and told that no, we'll talk about it when the EU ddcides to talk about it.
The UK claims its going to get a sweetheart deal but instead it gets hit with a 50bn bill to leave.
The Brexit campaigners claim that they will keep access to the single market if they want it. The EU shut that down and say its not going to happen.
The UK is in such a weak negotiating position and Brexiters keep pretending that they're necessary to the EU and that the EU will come crawling to them
Your first point on EU citizens and UK citizens just proves it's the EU using its people as bargaining chips and not the UK.
Your 2nd point about the 50m exit bill, legally the UK has no obligation to pay it.
Your 3rd point about the single market, the UK government position is to leave the single market, we don't want to be in it.
On your last point, Teresa May has said no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK. We can walk away from the table and go into WTO terms with the EU. This will be a very good settlement for the UK we can then go out into the world and immediately sign the many bilateral trade deals with countries who are already queuing up to do trade deals with us.
Yes pumpkin, and the Easter bunny gets here soon too.
USA, India, China, South Korea, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, just a few of the many countries already in the queue chomping at the bit to sign a trade deal with a free and independent Uk."Chomping at the bit....funny. Theres nothing stopping you from negotiating the terms of those deals now. In fact if you could negotiate these deals now it would actually put you in a stronger position because you could tell the EU that you dont need them because theyve already been replaced.... And yet this isnt happening. Wonder why? Maybe because these deals wont be as good as you think? Maybe because the UK is focused on the EU deal because they know they cant replace the EU with others. Either way your fantasy doesnt have much basis in reality or we'd already have seen these deals started. Instead your focused where your economy needs to focus for survival. WTO standard tariffs can be as high 50%. It will cripple your economy for that to happen. No one is going to pay a 50% surcharge on British goods or services. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Britain will be handed a £50bn exit bill by the eu when may triggers article 50, chief negotiator for brussels warns, does that mean they cant leave until they have payed it all? So it could take up to 10 years as it is alot and no matter how much she negotiates, they wont bend the rules. The EU can whistle for it, our government should tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine. Interesting perspective. We break an agreement. The bill is £30-60bn. Fine. Then we expect other countries to sign trade agreements with us? "We haven't broken any agreements! Article 50 is part of the EU constitution. It allows for countries to leave. The "bill" is our nett contribution to the EU budget for the next four/five years....if we are out in two (as the EU seem to be insisting we must be) then it will not all be due. We WILL still be liable for our normal payments for the next two years as we will still be members of the EU.....as everybody knew. We expect other countries to sign trade deals with us? Of course we do....they are already queueing up. The rest of the EU can choose to join them...or get to the back of the queue. They are already behind us as far as USA is concerned! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"
I love how deeply the brexiters heads are buried in the sand.
Brexiters keep saying that the UK should dictate terms to the EU because the UK is in the stronger position.
And yet the UK couldnt even set the terms of the talks. They wanted to talk about the EU citizens in the UK and the Brits living in the EU and they were put in their place and told that no, we'll talk about it when the EU ddcides to talk about it.
The UK claims its going to get a sweetheart deal but instead it gets hit with a 50bn bill to leave.
The Brexit campaigners claim that they will keep access to the single market if they want it. The EU shut that down and say its not going to happen.
The UK is in such a weak negotiating position and Brexiters keep pretending that they're necessary to the EU and that the EU will come crawling to them
Your first point on EU citizens and UK citizens just proves it's the EU using its people as bargaining chips and not the UK.
Your 2nd point about the 50m exit bill, legally the UK has no obligation to pay it.
Your 3rd point about the single market, the UK government position is to leave the single market, we don't want to be in it.
On your last point, Teresa May has said no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK. We can walk away from the table and go into WTO terms with the EU. This will be a very good settlement for the UK we can then go out into the world and immediately sign the many bilateral trade deals with countries who are already queuing up to do trade deals with us.
Yes pumpkin, and the Easter bunny gets here soon too.
USA, India, China, South Korea, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, just a few of the many countries already in the queue chomping at the bit to sign a trade deal with a free and independent Uk."Hahaha chomping at the bit to do business with a free and independent UK, No i think your mistaking photo ops by theresa maye in the form of trade missions/begging bowl agreements with the likes of a protectionist like Donald trump as countries wanting to do business with the UK. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Britain will be handed a £50bn exit bill by the eu when may triggers article 50, chief negotiator for brussels warns, does that mean they cant leave until they have payed it all? So it could take up to 10 years as it is alot and no matter how much she negotiates, they wont bend the rules. The EU can whistle for it, our government should tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine. Interesting perspective. We break an agreement. The bill is £30-60bn. Fine. Then we expect other countries to sign trade agreements with us?
We haven't broken any agreements! Article 50 is part of the EU constitution. It allows for countries to leave.
The "bill" is our nett contribution to the EU budget for the next four/five years....if we are out in two (as the EU seem to be insisting we must be) then it will not all be due. We WILL still be liable for our normal payments for the next two years as we will still be members of the EU.....as everybody knew.
We expect other countries to sign trade deals with us? Of course we do....they are already queueing up. The rest of the EU can choose to join them...or get to the back of the queue. They are already behind us as far as USA is concerned!"I thought i accidently started reading the daily mail there!! I see you are still hanging on to the idea of a "special relationship" between the UK and the USA. Best of luck with that, the days of post war colonial arrogance are long gone, you will reap what you sow, dont rely on Donald trump to do you any favours. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Britain will be handed a £50bn exit bill by the eu when may triggers article 50, chief negotiator for brussels warns, does that mean they cant leave until they have payed it all? So it could take up to 10 years as it is alot and no matter how much she negotiates, they wont bend the rules. The EU can whistle for it, our government should tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine. Interesting perspective. We break an agreement. The bill is £30-60bn. Fine. Then we expect other countries to sign trade agreements with us?
We haven't broken any agreements! Article 50 is part of the EU constitution. It allows for countries to leave.
The "bill" is our nett contribution to the EU budget for the next four/five years....if we are out in two (as the EU seem to be insisting we must be) then it will not all be due. We WILL still be liable for our normal payments for the next two years as we will still be members of the EU.....as everybody knew.
We expect other countries to sign trade deals with us? Of course we do....they are already queueing up. The rest of the EU can choose to join them...or get to the back of the queue. They are already behind us as far as USA is concerned!
I thought i accidently started reading the daily mail there!! I see you are still hanging on to the idea of a "special relationship" between the UK and the USA. Best of luck with that, the days of post war colonial arrogance are long gone, you will reap what you sow, dont rely on Donald trump to do you any favours. "He does temd to quote the Mail or the Express verbaitim, like it's his own view. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"
I love how deeply the brexiters heads are buried in the sand.
Brexiters keep saying that the UK should dictate terms to the EU because the UK is in the stronger position.
And yet the UK couldnt even set the terms of the talks. They wanted to talk about the EU citizens in the UK and the Brits living in the EU and they were put in their place and told that no, we'll talk about it when the EU ddcides to talk about it.
The UK claims its going to get a sweetheart deal but instead it gets hit with a 50bn bill to leave.
The Brexit campaigners claim that they will keep access to the single market if they want it. The EU shut that down and say its not going to happen.
The UK is in such a weak negotiating position and Brexiters keep pretending that they're necessary to the EU and that the EU will come crawling to them
Your first point on EU citizens and UK citizens just proves it's the EU using its people as bargaining chips and not the UK.
Your 2nd point about the 50m exit bill, legally the UK has no obligation to pay it.
Your 3rd point about the single market, the UK government position is to leave the single market, we don't want to be in it.
On your last point, Teresa May has said no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK. We can walk away from the table and go into WTO terms with the EU. This will be a very good settlement for the UK we can then go out into the world and immediately sign the many bilateral trade deals with countries who are already queuing up to do trade deals with us.
Yes pumpkin, and the Easter bunny gets here soon too.
USA, India, China, South Korea, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, just a few of the many countries already in the queue chomping at the bit to sign a trade deal with a free and independent Uk.
Chomping at the bit....funny. Theres nothing stopping you from negotiating the terms of those deals now. In fact if you could negotiate these deals now it would actually put you in a stronger position because you could tell the EU that you dont need them because theyve already been replaced....
And yet this isnt happening. Wonder why? Maybe because these deals wont be as good as you think? Maybe because the UK is focused on the EU deal because they know they cant replace the EU with others. Either way your fantasy doesnt have much basis in reality or we'd already have seen these deals started.
Instead your focused where your economy needs to focus for survival. WTO standard tariffs can be as high 50%. It will cripple your economy for that to happen. No one is going to pay a 50% surcharge on British goods or services."The ground work for those other trade deals around the world has already started. Teresa May gave a clear indication for a global Britain when she appointed Liam Fox as international trade secretary soon after she became Prime Minister. There have been numerous news stories about Liam Fox jetting around the world talking to different countries, he's not going to these countries on sight seeing jollies! Lol. He's going to these countries and putting in the ground work for bilateral trade deals with those countries. Teresa May even went to India on a trip with him and he has been to many countries without her on his own. We can't sign other trade deals until the 2 year period is up after article 50 is triggered or we can sign them if we walk away from the table during negotiations with the EU. As soon as the time comes those trade deals will already be in place because Liam Fox is already doing the groundwork now. All Teresa May will have to do is sign on the dotted line. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"On your last point, Teresa May has said no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK. We can walk away from the table and go into WTO terms with the EU. This will be a very good settlement for the UK we can then go out into the world and immediately sign the many bilateral trade deals with countries who are already queuing up to do trade deals with us." Jesus fucking Christ nobody else has got any fucking scale!!, fucking New Zealand! South Africa!! Brazil!!!, yhey are fucking tiny but it never sinks in all the time you keep repeating your 'better trade deals' mantra to yourself like some d*unk in the park! You think it's beneficial to stick two fingers up to Tesco Saintsbury's Asdas and Morrisons then sell to the fucking corner shop!!!!! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"On your last point, Teresa May has said no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK. We can walk away from the table and go into WTO terms with the EU. This will be a very good settlement for the UK we can then go out into the world and immediately sign the many bilateral trade deals with countries who are already queuing up to do trade deals with us. Jesus fucking Christ nobody else has got any fucking scale!!, fucking New Zealand! South Africa!! Brazil!!!, yhey are fucking tiny but it never sinks in all the time you keep repeating your 'better trade deals' mantra to yourself like some d*unk in the park! You think it's beneficial to stick two fingers up to Tesco Saintsbury's Asdas and Morrisons then sell to the fucking corner shop!!!!!" That was quite funny | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"
I love how deeply the brexiters heads are buried in the sand.
Brexiters keep saying that the UK should dictate terms to the EU because the UK is in the stronger position.
And yet the UK couldnt even set the terms of the talks. They wanted to talk about the EU citizens in the UK and the Brits living in the EU and they were put in their place and told that no, we'll talk about it when the EU ddcides to talk about it.
The UK claims its going to get a sweetheart deal but instead it gets hit with a 50bn bill to leave.
The Brexit campaigners claim that they will keep access to the single market if they want it. The EU shut that down and say its not going to happen.
The UK is in such a weak negotiating position and Brexiters keep pretending that they're necessary to the EU and that the EU will come crawling to them
Your first point on EU citizens and UK citizens just proves it's the EU using its people as bargaining chips and not the UK.
Your 2nd point about the 50m exit bill, legally the UK has no obligation to pay it.
Your 3rd point about the single market, the UK government position is to leave the single market, we don't want to be in it.
On your last point, Teresa May has said no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK. We can walk away from the table and go into WTO terms with the EU. This will be a very good settlement for the UK we can then go out into the world and immediately sign the many bilateral trade deals with countries who are already queuing up to do trade deals with us.
Yes pumpkin, and the Easter bunny gets here soon too.
USA, India, China, South Korea, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, just a few of the many countries already in the queue chomping at the bit to sign a trade deal with a free and independent Uk.
Chomping at the bit....funny. Theres nothing stopping you from negotiating the terms of those deals now. In fact if you could negotiate these deals now it would actually put you in a stronger position because you could tell the EU that you dont need them because theyve already been replaced....
And yet this isnt happening. Wonder why? Maybe because these deals wont be as good as you think? Maybe because the UK is focused on the EU deal because they know they cant replace the EU with others. Either way your fantasy doesnt have much basis in reality or we'd already have seen these deals started.
Instead your focused where your economy needs to focus for survival. WTO standard tariffs can be as high 50%. It will cripple your economy for that to happen. No one is going to pay a 50% surcharge on British goods or services.
The ground work for those other trade deals around the world has already started. Teresa May gave a clear indication for a global Britain when she appointed Liam Fox as international trade secretary soon after she became Prime Minister. There have been numerous news stories about Liam Fox jetting around the world talking to different countries, he's not going to these countries on sight seeing jollies! Lol.
He's going to these countries and putting in the ground work for bilateral trade deals with those countries. Teresa May even went to India on a trip with him and he has been to many countries without her on his own. We can't sign other trade deals until the 2 year period is up after article 50 is triggered or we can sign them if we walk away from the table during negotiations with the EU. As soon as the time comes those trade deals will already be in place because Liam Fox is already doing the groundwork now. All Teresa May will have to do is sign on the dotted line. "Horseshit.... I currently buy products for my business from the UK a lot, also from the EU, I don't buy from the US or Switzerland because the trade tariffs are far too high from outside the EU even if the product is significantly cheaper its still too expensive to import it. When the UK leave Il simply source in Germany and the UK loose my business, there won't be sweetheart deals so Europe won't deal with you I'm afraid. It's simply not worth anyone importing from the UK anymore. It's the same principle as why u don't have for example American cars for sale in the uk, what u have American subsidiaries here as separate entities such as ford Europe or GM owning Vauxhall, all tariff avoidance, welcome to the new world, Europe doesn't owe the UK a thing, europe will manage fine, the days of UK being globally important are long long gone I'm afraid | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"On your last point, Teresa May has said no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK. We can walk away from the table and go into WTO terms with the EU. This will be a very good settlement for the UK we can then go out into the world and immediately sign the many bilateral trade deals with countries who are already queuing up to do trade deals with us. Jesus fucking Christ nobody else has got any fucking scale!!, fucking New Zealand! South Africa!! Brazil!!!, yhey are fucking tiny but it never sinks in all the time you keep repeating your 'better trade deals' mantra to yourself like some d*unk in the park! You think it's beneficial to stick two fingers up to Tesco Saintsbury's Asdas and Morrisons then sell to the fucking corner shop!!!!!" I'd hardly call USA and China the 'fucking corner shop' as you so eloquently put it, (2 countries in the list who you decided to leave out of your post for some inexplicable reason). Seeing as you use this comparison though then I'd compare USA and China to Waitrose, Aldi and Lidl combined. Seeing as you equate the EU to be Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury's and Morrisons, then they haven't been doing too well of late and their profits have dropped. I'd much rather shop at Aldi or Lidl for the better deals, and their business has been increasing and their profit margins have been performing much better. Plus the trips to Waitrose, Aldi and Lidl can also be topped up with trips now and again to the good old corner shop. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"
I love how deeply the brexiters heads are buried in the sand.
Brexiters keep saying that the UK should dictate terms to the EU because the UK is in the stronger position.
And yet the UK couldnt even set the terms of the talks. They wanted to talk about the EU citizens in the UK and the Brits living in the EU and they were put in their place and told that no, we'll talk about it when the EU ddcides to talk about it.
The UK claims its going to get a sweetheart deal but instead it gets hit with a 50bn bill to leave.
The Brexit campaigners claim that they will keep access to the single market if they want it. The EU shut that down and say its not going to happen.
The UK is in such a weak negotiating position and Brexiters keep pretending that they're necessary to the EU and that the EU will come crawling to them
Your first point on EU citizens and UK citizens just proves it's the EU using its people as bargaining chips and not the UK.
Your 2nd point about the 50m exit bill, legally the UK has no obligation to pay it.
Your 3rd point about the single market, the UK government position is to leave the single market, we don't want to be in it.
On your last point, Teresa May has said no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK. We can walk away from the table and go into WTO terms with the EU. This will be a very good settlement for the UK we can then go out into the world and immediately sign the many bilateral trade deals with countries who are already queuing up to do trade deals with us.
Yes pumpkin, and the Easter bunny gets here soon too.
USA, India, China, South Korea, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, just a few of the many countries already in the queue chomping at the bit to sign a trade deal with a free and independent Uk.
Chomping at the bit....funny. Theres nothing stopping you from negotiating the terms of those deals now. In fact if you could negotiate these deals now it would actually put you in a stronger position because you could tell the EU that you dont need them because theyve already been replaced....
And yet this isnt happening. Wonder why? Maybe because these deals wont be as good as you think? Maybe because the UK is focused on the EU deal because they know they cant replace the EU with others. Either way your fantasy doesnt have much basis in reality or we'd already have seen these deals started.
Instead your focused where your economy needs to focus for survival. WTO standard tariffs can be as high 50%. It will cripple your economy for that to happen. No one is going to pay a 50% surcharge on British goods or services.
The ground work for those other trade deals around the world has already started. Teresa May gave a clear indication for a global Britain when she appointed Liam Fox as international trade secretary soon after she became Prime Minister. There have been numerous news stories about Liam Fox jetting around the world talking to different countries, he's not going to these countries on sight seeing jollies! Lol.
He's going to these countries and putting in the ground work for bilateral trade deals with those countries. Teresa May even went to India on a trip with him and he has been to many countries without her on his own. We can't sign other trade deals until the 2 year period is up after article 50 is triggered or we can sign them if we walk away from the table during negotiations with the EU. As soon as the time comes those trade deals will already be in place because Liam Fox is already doing the groundwork now. All Teresa May will have to do is sign on the dotted line.
Horseshit....
I currently buy products for my business from the UK a lot, also from the EU, I don't buy from the US or Switzerland because the trade tariffs are far too high from outside the EU even if the product is significantly cheaper its still too expensive to import it. When the UK leave Il simply source in Germany and the UK loose my business, there won't be sweetheart deals so Europe won't deal with you I'm afraid. It's simply not worth anyone importing from the UK anymore. It's the same principle as why u don't have for example American cars for sale in the uk, what u have American subsidiaries here as separate entities such as ford Europe or GM owning Vauxhall, all tariff avoidance, welcome to the new world, Europe doesn't owe the UK a thing, europe will manage fine, the days of UK being globally important are long long gone I'm afraid "The drop in the value of the pound has already balanced out the playing field in the Uk's favour on the global markets. UK made products are already much more competitive in the global markets and UK exports have already increased. The number of UK exports will only increase more once new trade deals are signed all around the world. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"On your last point, Teresa May has said no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK. We can walk away from the table and go into WTO terms with the EU. This will be a very good settlement for the UK we can then go out into the world and immediately sign the many bilateral trade deals with countries who are already queuing up to do trade deals with us. Jesus fucking Christ nobody else has got any fucking scale!!, fucking New Zealand! South Africa!! Brazil!!!, yhey are fucking tiny but it never sinks in all the time you keep repeating your 'better trade deals' mantra to yourself like some d*unk in the park! You think it's beneficial to stick two fingers up to Tesco Saintsbury's Asdas and Morrisons then sell to the fucking corner shop!!!!! I'd hardly call USA and China the 'fucking corner shop' as you so eloquently put it, (2 countries in the list who you decided to leave out of your post for some inexplicable reason). Seeing as you use this comparison though then I'd compare USA and China to Waitrose, Aldi and Lidl combined. Seeing as you equate the EU to be Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury's and Morrisons, then they haven't been doing too well of late and their profits have dropped. I'd much rather shop at Aldi or Lidl for the better deals, and their business has been increasing and their profit margins have been performing much better. Plus the trips to Waitrose, Aldi and Lidl can also be topped up with trips now and again to the good old corner shop. "The UK exports more to Ireland (£23bn) than to China (£18bn), which is only fractionally more than to Belgium (£16bn) fucking Belgium!!!!, yeah fucking China millions of customers only they haven't got any money!!, The US takes £60bn of trade... Germany and France alone take £70!!!, but somehow tariff free trade can be replaced with a better deal!! for 25 fucking years the US refused British beef while it was being sold in the EU | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"On your last point, Teresa May has said no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK. We can walk away from the table and go into WTO terms with the EU. This will be a very good settlement for the UK we can then go out into the world and immediately sign the many bilateral trade deals with countries who are already queuing up to do trade deals with us. Jesus fucking Christ nobody else has got any fucking scale!!, fucking New Zealand! South Africa!! Brazil!!!, yhey are fucking tiny but it never sinks in all the time you keep repeating your 'better trade deals' mantra to yourself like some d*unk in the park! You think it's beneficial to stick two fingers up to Tesco Saintsbury's Asdas and Morrisons then sell to the fucking corner shop!!!!! I'd hardly call USA and China the 'fucking corner shop' as you so eloquently put it, (2 countries in the list who you decided to leave out of your post for some inexplicable reason). Seeing as you use this comparison though then I'd compare USA and China to Waitrose, Aldi and Lidl combined. Seeing as you equate the EU to be Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury's and Morrisons, then they haven't been doing too well of late and their profits have dropped. I'd much rather shop at Aldi or Lidl for the better deals, and their business has been increasing and their profit margins have been performing much better. Plus the trips to Waitrose, Aldi and Lidl can also be topped up with trips now and again to the good old corner shop. "Does the concept of leaving the second biggest economic trading block in the world (and the closest geographical one) and going looking to do trade deals with usa and China not fill u with dread? Be under no illusion that both the US and China don't give a toss about some small country in Europe same as they don't about the Swiss. Business is going to be getting a lot more expensive in the Uk and if u think that cuts in tariffs' between the USA or china and the UK wil make a difference to that it won't. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"
I love how deeply the brexiters heads are buried in the sand.
Brexiters keep saying that the UK should dictate terms to the EU because the UK is in the stronger position.
And yet the UK couldnt even set the terms of the talks. They wanted to talk about the EU citizens in the UK and the Brits living in the EU and they were put in their place and told that no, we'll talk about it when the EU ddcides to talk about it.
The UK claims its going to get a sweetheart deal but instead it gets hit with a 50bn bill to leave.
The Brexit campaigners claim that they will keep access to the single market if they want it. The EU shut that down and say its not going to happen.
The UK is in such a weak negotiating position and Brexiters keep pretending that they're necessary to the EU and that the EU will come crawling to them
Your first point on EU citizens and UK citizens just proves it's the EU using its people as bargaining chips and not the UK.
Your 2nd point about the 50m exit bill, legally the UK has no obligation to pay it.
Your 3rd point about the single market, the UK government position is to leave the single market, we don't want to be in it.
On your last point, Teresa May has said no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK. We can walk away from the table and go into WTO terms with the EU. This will be a very good settlement for the UK we can then go out into the world and immediately sign the many bilateral trade deals with countries who are already queuing up to do trade deals with us.
Yes pumpkin, and the Easter bunny gets here soon too.
USA, India, China, South Korea, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, just a few of the many countries already in the queue chomping at the bit to sign a trade deal with a free and independent Uk.
Chomping at the bit....funny. Theres nothing stopping you from negotiating the terms of those deals now. In fact if you could negotiate these deals now it would actually put you in a stronger position because you could tell the EU that you dont need them because theyve already been replaced....
And yet this isnt happening. Wonder why? Maybe because these deals wont be as good as you think? Maybe because the UK is focused on the EU deal because they know they cant replace the EU with others. Either way your fantasy doesnt have much basis in reality or we'd already have seen these deals started.
Instead your focused where your economy needs to focus for survival. WTO standard tariffs can be as high 50%. It will cripple your economy for that to happen. No one is going to pay a 50% surcharge on British goods or services.
The ground work for those other trade deals around the world has already started. Teresa May gave a clear indication for a global Britain when she appointed Liam Fox as international trade secretary soon after she became Prime Minister. There have been numerous news stories about Liam Fox jetting around the world talking to different countries, he's not going to these countries on sight seeing jollies! Lol.
He's going to these countries and putting in the ground work for bilateral trade deals with those countries. Teresa May even went to India on a trip with him and he has been to many countries without her on his own. We can't sign other trade deals until the 2 year period is up after article 50 is triggered or we can sign them if we walk away from the table during negotiations with the EU. As soon as the time comes those trade deals will already be in place because Liam Fox is already doing the groundwork now. All Teresa May will have to do is sign on the dotted line.
Horseshit....
I currently buy products for my business from the UK a lot, also from the EU, I don't buy from the US or Switzerland because the trade tariffs are far too high from outside the EU even if the product is significantly cheaper its still too expensive to import it. When the UK leave Il simply source in Germany and the UK loose my business, there won't be sweetheart deals so Europe won't deal with you I'm afraid. It's simply not worth anyone importing from the UK anymore. It's the same principle as why u don't have for example American cars for sale in the uk, what u have American subsidiaries here as separate entities such as ford Europe or GM owning Vauxhall, all tariff avoidance, welcome to the new world, Europe doesn't owe the UK a thing, europe will manage fine, the days of UK being globally important are long long gone I'm afraid
The drop in the value of the pound has already balanced out the playing field in the Uk's favour on the global markets. UK made products are already much more competitive in the global markets and UK exports have already increased. The number of UK exports will only increase more once new trade deals are signed all around the world. "Hahahaha u reckon? I promise business with the eu won't increase and if u think it will you're lying to yourself. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"simple .... just deduct £2,857 from the wages of 17,500,000 people who voted leave .... job done .... next" You forget or choose to ignore that on June 24th last year, we all became Leavers. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"simple .... just deduct £2,857 from the wages of 17,500,000 people who voted leave .... job done .... next You forget or choose to ignore that on June 24th last year, we all became Leavers." Or maybe you could take it from all those who didn't vote, as apparently it was their fault that the vote was to leave. Or maybe take it equally from all 68 Million of the population. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"simple .... just deduct £2,857 from the wages of 17,500,000 people who voted leave .... job done .... next You forget or choose to ignore that on June 24th last year, we all became Leavers." But we dont have the same views as a brexiter tho. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"
I love how deeply the brexiters heads are buried in the sand.
Brexiters keep saying that the UK should dictate terms to the EU because the UK is in the stronger position.
And yet the UK couldnt even set the terms of the talks. They wanted to talk about the EU citizens in the UK and the Brits living in the EU and they were put in their place and told that no, we'll talk about it when the EU ddcides to talk about it.
The UK claims its going to get a sweetheart deal but instead it gets hit with a 50bn bill to leave.
The Brexit campaigners claim that they will keep access to the single market if they want it. The EU shut that down and say its not going to happen.
The UK is in such a weak negotiating position and Brexiters keep pretending that they're necessary to the EU and that the EU will come crawling to them
Your first point on EU citizens and UK citizens just proves it's the EU using its people as bargaining chips and not the UK.
Your 2nd point about the 50m exit bill, legally the UK has no obligation to pay it.
Your 3rd point about the single market, the UK government position is to leave the single market, we don't want to be in it.
On your last point, Teresa May has said no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK. We can walk away from the table and go into WTO terms with the EU. This will be a very good settlement for the UK we can then go out into the world and immediately sign the many bilateral trade deals with countries who are already queuing up to do trade deals with us.
"Again. What WTO terms. You are so happy to accept WTO terms, yet we have not negotiated our schedule with the WTO yet as far as I can see. What terms are you happy with? -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"simple .... just deduct £2,857 from the wages of 17,500,000 people who voted leave .... job done .... next You forget or choose to ignore that on June 24th last year, we all became Leavers.But we dont have the same views as a brexiter tho." And what difference does that make? Do you want to live in a democracy or not? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"simple .... just deduct £2,857 from the wages of 17,500,000 people who voted leave .... job done .... next You forget or choose to ignore that on June 24th last year, we all became Leavers.But we dont have the same views as a brexiter tho. And what difference does that make? Do you want to live in a democracy or not?" Yes I do, but even tho you dont have to accept the outcome. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"simple .... just deduct £2,857 from the wages of 17,500,000 people who voted leave .... job done .... next You forget or choose to ignore that on June 24th last year, we all became Leavers.But we dont have the same views as a brexiter tho. And what difference does that make? Do you want to live in a democracy or not?Yes I do, but even tho you dont have to accept the outcome." Maybe i'll set up a headstone business. Might make a fortune on headstones "here lies a Remainer, bitter and twisted to the end" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"On your last point, Teresa May has said no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK. We can walk away from the table and go into WTO terms with the EU. This will be a very good settlement for the UK we can then go out into the world and immediately sign the many bilateral trade deals with countries who are already queuing up to do trade deals with us. Jesus fucking Christ nobody else has got any fucking scale!!, fucking New Zealand! South Africa!! Brazil!!!, yhey are fucking tiny but it never sinks in all the time you keep repeating your 'better trade deals' mantra to yourself like some d*unk in the park! You think it's beneficial to stick two fingers up to Tesco Saintsbury's Asdas and Morrisons then sell to the fucking corner shop!!!!! I'd hardly call USA and China the 'fucking corner shop' as you so eloquently put it, (2 countries in the list who you decided to leave out of your post for some inexplicable reason). Seeing as you use this comparison though then I'd compare USA and China to Waitrose, Aldi and Lidl combined. Seeing as you equate the EU to be Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury's and Morrisons, then they haven't been doing too well of late and their profits have dropped. I'd much rather shop at Aldi or Lidl for the better deals, and their business has been increasing and their profit margins have been performing much better. Plus the trips to Waitrose, Aldi and Lidl can also be topped up with trips now and again to the good old corner shop.
The UK exports more to Ireland (£23bn) than to China (£18bn), which is only fractionally more than to Belgium (£16bn) fucking Belgium!!!!, yeah fucking China millions of customers only they haven't got any money!!, The US takes £60bn of trade... Germany and France alone take £70!!!, but somehow tariff free trade can be replaced with a better deal!! for 25 fucking years the US refused British beef while it was being sold in the EU". I googled something that made me think about these trade figures, the EU figures can be a bit misleading as lots of giant companies ship things from EU country to EU country and sometimes depending on circumstances its counted as trade! Theres only like 10 million people living in Belgium and there not exactly loaded themselves,I used to deliver there and its poor in lots of places, our company has started exporting alot more to China in the last few years since its huge investment at Manchester airport. As for the beef thing with bse ,yea the yanks got panicked by the whole thing at the start and never took British beef back but then neither did the French, the yanks never imported much beef anyhow as theres is reared much cheaper internally, where as the French just protected there already over subsidised market | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Yes they are already queuing up to do deals with us. We are first in the queue for a trade deal with the USA and seeing as President Donald Trump dislikes the EU he'll probably give us a bonus for telling the EU where to stick it. "you keep peddling that nonsense and just like trump you have absolutely no evidence that will be the case.... so you really expect the "america first" to undercut his own people in places where trump will need to keep people onboard if he wants to see another 4 yrs....and to give the uk a better deal when the UK also has a 2 to 1 surplus in trade on the US.... right...... sure!!!!!!!  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Yes they are already queuing up to do deals with us. We are first in the queue for a trade deal with the USA and seeing as President Donald Trump dislikes the EU he'll probably give us a bonus for telling the EU where to stick it.
you keep peddling that nonsense and just like trump you have absolutely no evidence that will be the case....
so you really expect the "america first" to undercut his own people in places where trump will need to keep people onboard if he wants to see another 4 yrs....and to give the uk a better deal when the UK also has a 2 to 1 surplus in trade on the US....
right...... sure!!!!!!! "You dont understand how things are going to work!!!11 The UK can currently export to its closest neighbours with no tarriffs or limits. Thanks to the Brexit vote and Theresa May (may she reign forever) the UK is going to be able to trade with countries further away with the best tarriffs and restrictions. This is clearly better because the UK will have the best tariffs which is better than no tarriffs. And higher freight and transport costs to sell to the US and China is going to make British goods more desireable than it was to the EU because of....reasons... And we wont worry about the fact that these countries all have different standards whereas the EU had one set of standards to make easy to sell across the market. People across the world will happily pay more for something made in Durham! And the UK is bound to get better deals than the EU!! The EU has a market size of 670 million people and the UK has 78 million people. I know which market Id want the most: The British one!! So clearly China, the US and the rest will make more concessions to us because Britishness!! And Donald Trump will give the UK a great deal that favours the UK because he's emotionally invested in the success of Brexit. He's going to be seen publically, in front of all his supporters, to give the UK a better deal than NObama gave the EU. Imagine the great publicity he'll get for giving the UK better terms that favour the UK over the US. From Texas to Alaska they'll be waving miniature British flags...made in China. And May will make the EU regret their stance with the UK. Britain may have turned our back on them, they may have emboldened Putin, they may have opted out of the anti terrorism efforts in Europe and increased tensions in Northern Ireland but the UK buys lots of BMWs!!! And if the EU doesnt want BMWs share divided for its stockholders to go down a bit then it will cave to all Mays demands! In fact the EU will probably start paying us to join the single market because thats maybe how things work I think!!!1 And the financial companies arent really looking to move their EU operations to the EU. The British pride in the hearts of the board members....who are mostly American...will swell as they hand over tens of millions to the EU in tarriffs because they'll know that Britain is finally free!! God save the Queen and God save Dyson vacuums even though theyre not very good and who's really that bothered about the bag anyway? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I didnt wanna quote you as it was pretty long already. I want to ask about this 670 million people market, it sounds great but in reality is it?. I mean how many of them are actually well off enough to afford British goods,I quickly googled Bulgaria for instance, we export 560 mill but import 580mill then I tried Lithuania 250 mill out 280 back, we were like negative on all them . France Germany Italy Spain are the only fairly big wealthy markets and Spain exports far more than it imports, so do the rest!. So unless the actual desire to buy the things we import goes we surely cant be that worse off, for every export job loss you could replace by the job that youve just moved from those importing to us. Ive no idea what the cost difference would be like though. I mean we keep saying about the EU being wealthy but is it, I used to drop off all over the continent and most areas were piss poor especially eastern block lot plus the likes of Portugal and most of southern Italy and Greece. Theres more people live in Mumbai than Romania, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia combined and its well loaded "GDP of the Eu without Britain is ~17.5 trillion. GDP of the Uk is ~ 2.7 Trillion. Who is China going to make more concessions for? The market with 6 times as much money and 9 times as many people? Or the smaller market? The thing about Mumbai is that they have their own labour which is cheaper than the UK and they dont have the costs associated with shipping so far across the world. So what do the UK produce that they can either do cheaper or so much better that its worth the extra money? And if those products or services exist, why arent they already being sold there?? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I didnt wanna quote you as it was pretty long already. I want to ask about this 670 million people market, it sounds great but in reality is it?. I mean how many of them are actually well off enough to afford British goods,I quickly googled Bulgaria for instance, we export 560 mill but import 580mill then I tried Lithuania 250 mill out 280 back, we were like negative on all them . France Germany Italy Spain are the only fairly big wealthy markets and Spain exports far more than it imports, so do the rest!. So unless the actual desire to buy the things we import goes we surely cant be that worse off, for every export job loss you could replace by the job that youve just moved from those importing to us. Ive no idea what the cost difference would be like though. I mean we keep saying about the EU being wealthy but is it, I used to drop off all over the continent and most areas were piss poor especially eastern block lot plus the likes of Portugal and most of southern Italy and Greece. Theres more people live in Mumbai than Romania, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia combined and its well loaded
GDP of the Eu without Britain is ~17.5 trillion.
GDP of the Uk is ~ 2.7 Trillion.
Who is China going to make more concessions for? The market with 6 times as much money and 9 times as many people? Or the smaller market?
The thing about Mumbai is that they have their own labour which is cheaper than the UK and they dont have the costs associated with shipping so far across the world. So what do the UK produce that they can either do cheaper or so much better that its worth the extra money? And if those products or services exist, why arent they already being sold there??"who has the better deal with China, the EU or Switzerland? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Yes they are already queuing up to do deals with us. We are first in the queue for a trade deal with the USA and seeing as President Donald Trump dislikes the EU he'll probably give us a bonus for telling the EU where to stick it.
you keep peddling that nonsense and just like trump you have absolutely no evidence that will be the case....
so you really expect the "america first" to undercut his own people in places where trump will need to keep people onboard if he wants to see another 4 yrs....and to give the uk a better deal when the UK also has a 2 to 1 surplus in trade on the US....
right...... sure!!!!!!! "When it comes to talking nonsense about Trump you are the expert on here Fabio. At the very start of the USA election primaries I said on here Trump would win, you along with a few others laughed at me and said Trump had 0% chance of winning. I think that makes you the least qualified person on here to predict what will happen with Trump or how he will handle things. I've already explained to you on other threads why Trump will give the UK a good trade deal. You need to look at what Trumps long term objectives are, he doesn't care about the EU, he actually really dislikes the EU and his long term objective is to get other countries to Leave. For this to happen he needs to make sure Brexit is a success, if he gives the UK a good deal then it's more likely Brexit will be a success and could tempt other countries to Leave. On top of that he is half Scottish (has a Scottish mother) and he is an Anglophile (he loves the uk). His close personal friend Piers Morgan said Trump told him he feels half British. He could arguably be the most pro British American President we have ever seen, he has already had the bust of Winston Churchill returned to the Oval office in the White House on the first day of his Presidency after Obama had it removed. The first foreign politician he invited to Trump tower after his election victory was a Brit (Nigel Farage) and the first foreign leader he invited to the White House when he became President was also a Brit, Prime minister Teresa May. The talks with Teresa May went well and he said of Britain "we are going to look after you folks". He sees his relationship with Teresa May as the new Thatcher/Reagan partnership. He also needs a bilateral trade deal on a 1 to 1 country basis to prove his critics wrong who are telling him he can't do it. All the signs are there for a strong and close relationship between the UK and the USA. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I didnt wanna quote you as it was pretty long already. I want to ask about this 670 million people market, it sounds great but in reality is it?. I mean how many of them are actually well off enough to afford British goods,I quickly googled Bulgaria for instance, we export 560 mill but import 580mill then I tried Lithuania 250 mill out 280 back, we were like negative on all them . France Germany Italy Spain are the only fairly big wealthy markets and Spain exports far more than it imports, so do the rest!. So unless the actual desire to buy the things we import goes we surely cant be that worse off, for every export job loss you could replace by the job that youve just moved from those importing to us. Ive no idea what the cost difference would be like though. I mean we keep saying about the EU being wealthy but is it, I used to drop off all over the continent and most areas were piss poor especially eastern block lot plus the likes of Portugal and most of southern Italy and Greece. Theres more people live in Mumbai than Romania, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia combined and its well loaded "Whether it's a market of 1 person or 670 million people, that market is still going to exist. It's just on what terms that we deal with them on. It's not as if we are pulling up the gangplank and sailing off to the other side of the world. No one knows what these terms will be, and it's wrong of either side to say that they know. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I didnt wanna quote you as it was pretty long already. I want to ask about this 670 million people market, it sounds great but in reality is it?. I mean how many of them are actually well off enough to afford British goods,I quickly googled Bulgaria for instance, we export 560 mill but import 580mill then I tried Lithuania 250 mill out 280 back, we were like negative on all them . France Germany Italy Spain are the only fairly big wealthy markets and Spain exports far more than it imports, so do the rest!. So unless the actual desire to buy the things we import goes we surely cant be that worse off, for every export job loss you could replace by the job that youve just moved from those importing to us. Ive no idea what the cost difference would be like though. I mean we keep saying about the EU being wealthy but is it, I used to drop off all over the continent and most areas were piss poor especially eastern block lot plus the likes of Portugal and most of southern Italy and Greece. Theres more people live in Mumbai than Romania, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia combined and its well loaded
GDP of the Eu without Britain is ~17.5 trillion.
GDP of the Uk is ~ 2.7 Trillion.
Who is China going to make more concessions for? The market with 6 times as much money and 9 times as many people? Or the smaller market?
The thing about Mumbai is that they have their own labour which is cheaper than the UK and they dont have the costs associated with shipping so far across the world. So what do the UK produce that they can either do cheaper or so much better that its worth the extra money? And if those products or services exist, why arent they already being sold there??". No im not in denial about the EU being waded, im asking is it really 670 million wealthy people we have to replace or just 200 million (the five big ones) how much of that 17.5 tillon is the big five?. And how much of that 200 million peoples buying habits will be lost? Rich people in Mumbai will start buying our products once they get wealthy, poor people we cant sell to either way as they cant afford the stuff in the first place, that was my point about most of that 670 million people number, the vast majority of them are poor certainly poorer than alot of Mumbai | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I didnt wanna quote you as it was pretty long already. I want to ask about this 670 million people market, it sounds great but in reality is it?. I mean how many of them are actually well off enough to afford British goods,I quickly googled Bulgaria for instance, we export 560 mill but import 580mill then I tried Lithuania 250 mill out 280 back, we were like negative on all them . France Germany Italy Spain are the only fairly big wealthy markets and Spain exports far more than it imports, so do the rest!. So unless the actual desire to buy the things we import goes we surely cant be that worse off, for every export job loss you could replace by the job that youve just moved from those importing to us. Ive no idea what the cost difference would be like though. I mean we keep saying about the EU being wealthy but is it, I used to drop off all over the continent and most areas were piss poor especially eastern block lot plus the likes of Portugal and most of southern Italy and Greece. Theres more people live in Mumbai than Romania, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia combined and its well loaded "The figure the official Remain campaign put out during the EU referendum was the EU had a market of 500 million people and that is with the UK as a member. The UK has a population of 65 million people so when UK leaves the EU it's market will be reduced to 435 million people. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Whether it's a market of 1 person or 670 million people, that market is still going to exist. It's just on what terms that we deal with them on. It's not as if we are pulling up the gangplank and sailing off to the other side of the world. No one knows what these terms will be, and it's wrong of either side to say that they know." . No I think it will, I mean finding 670 million people rich enough to buy UK products will be harder than finding 200 million people. Its like saying they sold 670 200k rollers in the UK, 450 of them went to London, rolls Royce biggest market is London not the UK. We do it all the time, we say America is wealthy as if its a market of 380 million loaded people, in reality 50 million live in poverty, half of them live on the bread line, I mean your not going to be selling expensive Audis BMWs and British engineering excellence to any of these people, there really no different to most of China or India | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"On top of that he is half Scottish (has a Scottish mother) and he is an Anglophile (he loves the uk). His close personal friend Piers Morgan said Trump told him he feels half British. He could arguably be the most pro British American President we have ever seen, he has already had the bust of Winston Churchill returned to the Oval office in the White House on the first day of his Presidency after Obama had it removed." You mean the bust that was never actually removed and was there all along? That one? The one that Obama never had removed as it has always been in the White House since the 60s, in the residence and not in the oval office? Or do you mean the bust that Blair lent Bush and that was returned at the end of Bush's term along with all his other personal effects? -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other." ....But..But..But..that's not Doom...we want Doom...we want Doom..we want Doom. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other." They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other.They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. " WTO is about 2.5% average for EU goods. 10% on cars. What commodity is 35% on? Remember HMRC receive this money on goods imported into the UK. We have a negative balance of trade with the EU. I would rather see free trade, but if WTO tariffs come in HMRC is better off. That money can be used as we see fit e.g replicate the Nissan deal probably done around the referendum. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other.They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. " . Somebody else said it was 50% | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other.They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. . Somebody else said it was 50%" Just looked it up. British wine exported to the EU would be 32% tariff. Most other items are sub 4%. Cars 10% duty. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other.They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. . Somebody else said it was 50% Just looked it up. British wine exported to the EU would be 32% tariff. Most other items are sub 4%. Cars 10% duty." Have we already negotiated our WTO schedule then? I was under the impression that this is something we still have to negotiate? I keep trying to find a definitive answer on this, but been unable to. -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other.They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. . Somebody else said it was 50% Just looked it up. British wine exported to the EU would be 32% tariff. Most other items are sub 4%. Cars 10% duty." . Thats not too bad we only do nettle and damson here and frankly its more like port than wine | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other.They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. . Somebody else said it was 50% Just looked it up. British wine exported to the EU would be 32% tariff. Most other items are sub 4%. Cars 10% duty." And would anyone know or notice the difference when looking at the price of a new small car? Is a new fiesta say, £10,000 or £11,000? I dunno, but if I wanted one of those I'd have one. And as most cars are purchased on credit these days I would say interest rates are more important than just basic price | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other.They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. . Somebody else said it was 50% Just looked it up. British wine exported to the EU would be 32% tariff. Most other items are sub 4%. Cars 10% duty. Have we already negotiated our WTO schedule then? I was under the impression that this is something we still have to negotiate? I keep trying to find a definitive answer on this, but been unable to. -Matt" as we are a member of the WTO we keep the same terms | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Just looked it up. British wine exported to the EU would be 32% tariff. Most other items are sub 4%. Cars 10% duty. Have we already negotiated our WTO schedule then? I was under the impression that this is something we still have to negotiate? I keep trying to find a definitive answer on this, but been unable to. -Matt" No, they are just WTO standard tariffs. We could stomp off and have those, do a deal and have zero tariff free rade, or something in between. The recent CETA deal wih Canada set zero on most goods and some items still has duties applied. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Just looked it up. British wine exported to the EU would be 32% tariff. Most other items are sub 4%. Cars 10% duty. And would anyone know or notice the difference when looking at the price of a new small car? Is a new fiesta say, £10,000 or £11,000? I dunno, but if I wanted one of those I'd have one. And as most cars are purchased on credit these days I would say interest rates are more important than just basic price" An imported BMW or Peugeot would have 10% duty added. A UK built Jaguar, Toyota or Vauxhall would not. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Just looked it up. British wine exported to the EU would be 32% tariff. Most other items are sub 4%. Cars 10% duty. And would anyone know or notice the difference when looking at the price of a new small car? Is a new fiesta say, £10,000 or £11,000? I dunno, but if I wanted one of those I'd have one. And as most cars are purchased on credit these days I would say interest rates are more important than just basic price An imported BMW or Peugeot would have 10% duty added. A UK built Jaguar, Toyota or Vauxhall would not." fair point, I'll take 2 Jags
(If only. I'm not a member of the Labour Party) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other.They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. WTO is about 2.5% average for EU goods. 10% on cars. What commodity is 35% on? " A Fair amount of agriculture would actually have 35% placed on it...... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 .
Confused. Com
Has anybody got actual links to the official numbers | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other.They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. . Somebody else said it was 50% Just looked it up. British wine exported to the EU would be 32% tariff. Most other items are sub 4%. Cars 10% duty. Have we already negotiated our WTO schedule then? I was under the impression that this is something we still have to negotiate? I keep trying to find a definitive answer on this, but been unable to. -Matt" The WTO schedule hasnt been negotiated. It could take even longer to negotiate than the EU deal. And longer again to certify. For instance the EUs quota for beef that was agreed in 2003 hasnt been certified yet. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"He says 2 he says 10 he says 35 and the other says 50. Now we've got a "fair amount" .
Confused. Com
Has anybody got actual links to the official numbers"There isn't one number. Every commodity (type of item) has a % rate. Wine is 32% , cars 10% , etc etc. Look them up on wto tariffs. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"He says 2 he says 10 he says 35 and the other says 50. Now we've got a "fair amount" .
Confused. Com
Has anybody got actual links to the official numbers"It depends entirely on the product in question and depends if its under or over the quota agreed on. Some things are 2% and others are 50%. Most are in between. WTO terms are a ceiling on tarriffs. You can go lower but you cant go higher. So operating on the WTO terms basically means youve got the highest tarriffs on everything you could possibly have. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"He says 2 he says 10 he says 35 and the other says 50. Now we've got a "fair amount" .
Confused. Com
Has anybody got actual links to the official numbers
There isn't one number. Every commodity (type of item) has a % rate.
Wine is 32% , cars 10% , etc etc.
Look them up on wto tariffs.". I thought thats what people were doing but then its all get conflicting numbers and then the last guy said weve not even negotiated them  im confused | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Just looked it up. British wine exported to the EU would be 32% tariff. Most other items are sub 4%. Cars 10% duty. And would anyone know or notice the difference when looking at the price of a new small car? Is a new fiesta say, £10,000 or £11,000? I dunno, but if I wanted one of those I'd have one. And as most cars are purchased on credit these days I would say interest rates are more important than just basic price An imported BMW or Peugeot would have 10% duty added. A UK built Jaguar, Toyota or Vauxhall would not." but this is making the assumption that every bit of the supply line and raw materials in making those cars are made in the UK....... for example... vauxhall and opel actually share components for there cars... so where all the bits can be transferred across europe tariff free at the moment..... everytime a bit has to cross this border... 10% will be levy'd on that bit.... so even those cars will go up in price..... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other.They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. . Somebody else said it was 50% Just looked it up. British wine exported to the EU would be 32% tariff. Most other items are sub 4%. Cars 10% duty. Have we already negotiated our WTO schedule then? I was under the impression that this is something we still have to negotiate? I keep trying to find a definitive answer on this, but been unable to. -Matt The WTO schedule hasnt been negotiated. It could take even longer to negotiate than the EU deal. And longer again to certify. For instance the EUs quota for beef that was agreed in 2003 hasnt been certified yet." Right, that was my understanding. So what happens if after 2 years from A50 if we haven't negotiated our schedule with the WTO? People keep talking about a 'standard' tariff, but I don't see how you can have 'standard' quota and the like... as far as I can see there is no 'default' schedule. -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"He says 2 he says 10 he says 35 and the other says 50. Now we've got a "fair amount" .
Confused. Com
Has anybody got actual links to the official numbers"if you are very spreadsheet savy the WTO have all the different tariff agreements on their site.... but it will make your eyes bleed.... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other.They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. . Somebody else said it was 50% Just looked it up. British wine exported to the EU would be 32% tariff. Most other items are sub 4%. Cars 10% duty. Have we already negotiated our WTO schedule then? I was under the impression that this is something we still have to negotiate? I keep trying to find a definitive answer on this, but been unable to. -Matt The WTO schedule hasnt been negotiated. It could take even longer to negotiate than the EU deal. And longer again to certify. For instance the EUs quota for beef that was agreed in 2003 hasnt been certified yet. Right, that was my understanding. So what happens if after 2 years from A50 if we haven't negotiated our schedule with the WTO? People keep talking about a 'standard' tariff, but I don't see how you can have 'standard' quota and the like... as far as I can see there is no 'default' schedule. -Matt" The easiest way is for the EU to voluntarilly give up the shares of the quota that Britain were using. If Britain was using 20% of the export quota for beef then the EU could give up 20% on condition that it goes to the UK. That way things remain basically the same and negotiations could move relatively swiftly. If the EU says no we're keeping our quotas then the UK is gonna have to figure something out. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other.They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. . Somebody else said it was 50% Just looked it up. British wine exported to the EU would be 32% tariff. Most other items are sub 4%. Cars 10% duty. And would anyone know or notice the difference when looking at the price of a new small car? Is a new fiesta say, £10,000 or £11,000? I dunno, but if I wanted one of those I'd have one. And as most cars are purchased on credit these days I would say interest rates are more important than just basic price" I'm not sure.. based on the wording on car adverts on TV and in print, radio etc, I think they are very price sensitive. If you are splashing out on a new Roller, maybe not... but new small cars I would think are very price sensitive. I know motorbikes are and each manufacturer has a model to compete with their competitors and often price is a key point. -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other.They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. . Somebody else said it was 50% Just looked it up. British wine exported to the EU would be 32% tariff. Most other items are sub 4%. Cars 10% duty. Have we already negotiated our WTO schedule then? I was under the impression that this is something we still have to negotiate? I keep trying to find a definitive answer on this, but been unable to. -Matt The WTO schedule hasnt been negotiated. It could take even longer to negotiate than the EU deal. And longer again to certify. For instance the EUs quota for beef that was agreed in 2003 hasnt been certified yet. Right, that was my understanding. So what happens if after 2 years from A50 if we haven't negotiated our schedule with the WTO? People keep talking about a 'standard' tariff, but I don't see how you can have 'standard' quota and the like... as far as I can see there is no 'default' schedule. -Matt The easiest way is for the EU to voluntarilly give up the shares of the quota that Britain were using. If Britain was using 20% of the export quota for beef then the EU could give up 20% on condition that it goes to the UK. That way things remain basically the same and negotiations could move relatively swiftly. If the EU says no we're keeping our quotas then the UK is gonna have to figure something out." But why would the EU even do that? Especially if we tell them to stick their exit bill up their arse... which seems to be the level of our negotiation finesse? -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other.They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. . Somebody else said it was 50% Just looked it up. British wine exported to the EU would be 32% tariff. Most other items are sub 4%. Cars 10% duty. Have we already negotiated our WTO schedule then? I was under the impression that this is something we still have to negotiate? I keep trying to find a definitive answer on this, but been unable to. -Matt The WTO schedule hasnt been negotiated. It could take even longer to negotiate than the EU deal. And longer again to certify. For instance the EUs quota for beef that was agreed in 2003 hasnt been certified yet. Right, that was my understanding. So what happens if after 2 years from A50 if we haven't negotiated our schedule with the WTO? People keep talking about a 'standard' tariff, but I don't see how you can have 'standard' quota and the like... as far as I can see there is no 'default' schedule. -Matt The easiest way is for the EU to voluntarilly give up the shares of the quota that Britain were using. If Britain was using 20% of the export quota for beef then the EU could give up 20% on condition that it goes to the UK. That way things remain basically the same and negotiations could move relatively swiftly. If the EU says no we're keeping our quotas then the UK is gonna have to figure something out. But why would the EU even do that? Especially if we tell them to stick their exit bill up their arse... which seems to be the level of our negotiation finesse? -Matt" because without the UK the EU would have to re-negotiate. They would be a lot smaller | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other.They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. . Somebody else said it was 50% Just looked it up. British wine exported to the EU would be 32% tariff. Most other items are sub 4%. Cars 10% duty. Have we already negotiated our WTO schedule then? I was under the impression that this is something we still have to negotiate? I keep trying to find a definitive answer on this, but been unable to. -Matt The WTO schedule hasnt been negotiated. It could take even longer to negotiate than the EU deal. And longer again to certify. For instance the EUs quota for beef that was agreed in 2003 hasnt been certified yet. Right, that was my understanding. So what happens if after 2 years from A50 if we haven't negotiated our schedule with the WTO? People keep talking about a 'standard' tariff, but I don't see how you can have 'standard' quota and the like... as far as I can see there is no 'default' schedule. -Matt The easiest way is for the EU to voluntarilly give up the shares of the quota that Britain were using. If Britain was using 20% of the export quota for beef then the EU could give up 20% on condition that it goes to the UK. That way things remain basically the same and negotiations could move relatively swiftly. If the EU says no we're keeping our quotas then the UK is gonna have to figure something out. But why would the EU even do that? Especially if we tell them to stick their exit bill up their arse... which seems to be the level of our negotiation finesse? -Matt because without the UK the EU would have to re-negotiate. They would be a lot smaller" Interesting... I've never thought about that side. Surely whenever a new country joins the EU they don't then have to renegotiate their WTO schedule do they? I don't know the specifics of these things, but if the EU has negotiated a contact of some kind and the UK leave, then the EU is still the EU, unless the contract has some clause that explicitly defines what the 'EU' is? -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" because without the UK the EU would have to re-negotiate. They would be a lot smaller" The EU doesnt *have* to renegotiate because the UK left. We can though. When the EU has added members there hasnt always been a renegotiation and the changes for the expansion that were agreed in 2003 havent been certified and put into effect yet. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other.They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. WTO is about 2.5% average for EU goods. 10% on cars. What commodity is 35% on? Remember HMRC receive this money on goods imported into the UK. We have a negative balance of trade with the EU. I would rather see free trade, but if WTO tariffs come in HMRC is better off. That money can be used as we see fit e.g replicate the Nissan deal probably done around the referendum." Yes, they didnt say for what, but as a general thing it was for most things, so it can be lower and higher. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" France Germany Italy Spain are the only fairly big wealthy markets and Spain exports far more than it imports, so do the rest!. So unless the actual desire to buy the things we import goes we surely cant be that worse off, for every export job loss you could replace by the job that youve just moved from those importing to us. Ive no idea what the cost difference would be like though. I mean we keep saying about the EU being wealthy but is it, I used to drop off all over the continent and most areas were piss poor especially eastern block lot plus the likes of Portugal and most of southern Italy and Greece. Theres more people live in Mumbai than Romania, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia combined and its well loaded
GDP of the Eu without Britain is ~17.5 trillion.
GDP of the Uk is ~ 2.7 Trillion.
Who is China going to make more concessions for? The market with 6 times as much money and 9 times as many people? Or the smaller market?
The thing about Mumbai is that they have their own labour which is cheaper than the UK and they dont have the costs associated with shipping so far across the world. So what do the UK produce that they can either do cheaper or so much better that its worth the extra money? And if those products or services exist, why arent they already being sold there??.
No im not in denial about the EU being waded, im asking is it really 670 million wealthy people we have to replace or just 200 million (the five big ones) how much of that 17.5 tillon is the big five?.
And how much of that 200 million peoples buying habits will be lost?
Rich people in Mumbai will start buying our products once they get wealthy, poor people we cant sell to either way as they cant afford the stuff in the first place, that was my point about most of that 670 million people number, the vast majority of them are poor certainly poorer than alot of Mumbai"That's why you tend to look at the per head/per capita figure as it gives you a better (at least less imperfect) idea of how much individuals have to spend or even better the disposable incomes. These give you a rough average of what individuals have to spend. Europe is far higher using these than India or China although the market size is smaller. It therefore depends on what you're selling. Luxury or big capital or high technology equipment then fine, but consumer goods (which cars are) or food then you won't sell much. Just on a personal basis, it's impressive to see someone wanting to work out what's really going on and doing the research. I hope that doesn't sound patronising! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"He says 2 he says 10 he says 35 and the other says 50. Now we've got a "fair amount" .
Confused. Com
Has anybody got actual links to the official numbers
if you are very spreadsheet savy the WTO have all the different tariff agreements on their site.... but it will make your eyes bleed...."Not for spreadsheet Phil it won't. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other.They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. WTO is about 2.5% average for EU goods. 10% on cars. What commodity is 35% on? Remember HMRC receive this money on goods imported into the UK. We have a negative balance of trade with the EU. I would rather see free trade, but if WTO tariffs come in HMRC is better off. That money can be used as we see fit e.g replicate the Nissan deal probably done around the referendum." HMRC is better off if we keep buying taxed imports. If consumer spending drops off then no. Also, in the end that's a tax on us. We pay when we buy don't we? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think that I am correct in saying that the VAT is added to the goods after the import duties/levies have been added, so that the increases in retail will be a bit more than just the import duty. I know that when I worked as a freight forwarder many moons ago, that was the case although I do stand (sit) to be corrected! "Outside the EU the UK can set it's own VAT rates. During the referendum campaign Michael Gove made the point on VAT on fuel bills being able to be cut once we leave the EU, something we cannot do while we remain a member. So once we leave we can drastically cut vat on imports if we want to, and the Chancellor of the exchequer Philip Hammond has already indicated he may do this anyway when he said "we will do whatever it takes to keep the UK economy competitive in the global market". | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Outside the EU the UK can set it's own VAT rates. During the referendum campaign Michael Gove made the point on VAT on fuel bills being able to be cut once we leave the EU, something we cannot do while we remain a member. So once we leave we can drastically cut vat on imports if we want to, and the Chancellor of the exchequer Philip Hammond has already indicated he may do this anyway when he said "we will do whatever it takes to keep the UK economy competitive in the global market". " EU rules mean the UK cannot reduce VAT on goods and services below 15%, the standard rate of VAT in the EU. The standard rate of VAT in the UK is 20%, so the government could reduce it by up to 5% today if it wanted. Bloody EU, forcing us to pay an extra 5% on fuel!  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Outside the EU the UK can set it's own VAT rates. During the referendum campaign Michael Gove made the point on VAT on fuel bills being able to be cut once we leave the EU, something we cannot do while we remain a member. So once we leave we can drastically cut vat on imports if we want to, and the Chancellor of the exchequer Philip Hammond has already indicated he may do this anyway when he said "we will do whatever it takes to keep the UK economy competitive in the global market". " The UK already gets to set VAT rates. And just explain how drastically cutting VAT on imports help the UK economy? By the way by cutting VAT on imports you make domestically produced goods relatively more expensive and therefore less competitive. Well done you! Your economic acumen is only outshon by your right wing zealotry!
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Outside the EU the UK can set it's own VAT rates. During the referendum campaign Michael Gove made the point on VAT on fuel bills being able to be cut once we leave the EU, something we cannot do while we remain a member. So once we leave we can drastically cut vat on imports if we want to, and the Chancellor of the exchequer Philip Hammond has already indicated he may do this anyway when he said "we will do whatever it takes to keep the UK economy competitive in the global market". EU rules mean the UK cannot reduce VAT on goods and services below 15%, the standard rate of VAT in the EU. The standard rate of VAT in the UK is 20%, so the government could reduce it by up to 5% today if it wanted. Bloody EU, forcing us to pay an extra 5% on fuel! "....and we can drop VAT to below 15% once we leave the EU then.  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" EU rules mean the UK cannot reduce VAT on goods and services below 15%, the standard rate of VAT in the EU. The standard rate of VAT in the UK is 20%, so the government could reduce it by up to 5% today if it wanted. Bloody EU, forcing us to pay an extra 5% on fuel!
....and we can drop VAT to below 15% once we leave the EU then. "I don't know why I thought you might acknowledge that the UK currently charges a higher rate of VAT than it could
Why is it 20% now and why would that suddenly no longer be desirable? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think that I am correct in saying that the VAT is added to the goods after the import duties/levies have been added, so that the increases in retail will be a bit more than just the import duty. I know that when I worked as a freight forwarder many moons ago, that was the case although I do stand (sit) to be corrected!
Outside the EU the UK can set it's own VAT rates. During the referendum campaign Michael Gove made the point on VAT on fuel bills being able to be cut once we leave the EU, something we cannot do while we remain a member. So once we leave we can drastically cut vat on imports if we want to, and the Chancellor of the exchequer Philip Hammond has already indicated he may do this anyway when he said "we will do whatever it takes to keep the UK economy competitive in the global market". "ooooh.... parotting that michael gove talking point.... what michael gove "forgot" to tell everyone (and you it seems since you like to repeat a talking point or two...) is that: 1) it was the conservatives who originally put a VAT charge on fuel.... up until the early 90's it was actually exempt.. 2) it was the then conservatives government who then raised it..... one of the last acts of the government before new labour came in..... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Outside the EU the UK can set it's own VAT rates. During the referendum campaign Michael Gove made the point on VAT on fuel bills being able to be cut once we leave the EU, something we cannot do while we remain a member. So once we leave we can drastically cut vat on imports if we want to, and the Chancellor of the exchequer Philip Hammond has already indicated he may do this anyway when he said "we will do whatever it takes to keep the UK economy competitive in the global market". The UK already gets to set VAT rates. And just explain how drastically cutting VAT on imports help the UK economy? By the way by cutting VAT on imports you make domestically produced goods relatively more expensive and therefore less competitive. Well done you! Your economic acumen is only outshon by your right wing zealotry!
"As EasyUK just pointed out as a member of the EU the lowest we can go with VAT is 15%. Once we leave the EU the UK government can reduce VAT below 15% if it decided it wanted to (remember Philip Hammond saying "we will do whatever it takes"). Cutting VAT on imports would help the UK economy and businesses by neutralising some of the tariff increases that may come in if we go onto WTO terms. We keep being told by Remainers that many domestically produced goods rely on imported component parts so they will also benefit. Domestically produced goods have already seen the benefit of our decision to Leave with the drop in the value of the pound which has boosted our export market. Your economic acumen seems to be akin to Corbyn and McDonell economics of the loony left, increase taxes on everything! What you don't seem to realise when you increase taxes on everything you stifle business and drive business away. A female Labour MP was on BBC Newsnight a few days ago debating a Tory MP about the cut in corporation tax the tories have introduced. The Labour MP wanted it increased but the Tory MP had to explain to her by cutting corporation tax it has actually resulted in more income for the exchequer because it has attracted more business here and has allowed business to flourish. Your economics are a relic of the 1970's which is where it appears you still want to live, the world has moved on its time you did too. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" EU rules mean the UK cannot reduce VAT on goods and services below 15%, the standard rate of VAT in the EU. The standard rate of VAT in the UK is 20%, so the government could reduce it by up to 5% today if it wanted. Bloody EU, forcing us to pay an extra 5% on fuel!
....and we can drop VAT to below 15% once we leave the EU then.
I don't know why I thought you might acknowledge that the UK currently charges a higher rate of VAT than it could
Why is it 20% now and why would that suddenly no longer be desirable?"When Philip Hammond says "we will do whatever it takes to remain competitive in the global markets" what do you think he means then? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other.They wont get free trade, as that you only get if you are in the eu club, uk can expect to get tariffs as high as 35%. WTO is about 2.5% average for EU goods. 10% on cars. What commodity is 35% on? Remember HMRC receive this money on goods imported into the UK. We have a negative balance of trade with the EU. I would rather see free trade, but if WTO tariffs come in HMRC is better off. That money can be used as we see fit e.g replicate the Nissan deal probably done around the referendum." You realise that import tarriffs will get passed on to UK businessed and consumers raising the cost of living for everyone in Britain....right? And that the tarriffs imposed on British exports by the EU will go to the EU governments and we'll benefit from that and British goods will still be alot less competitive... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" EU rules mean the UK cannot reduce VAT on goods and services below 15%, the standard rate of VAT in the EU. The standard rate of VAT in the UK is 20%, so the government could reduce it by up to 5% today if it wanted. Bloody EU, forcing us to pay an extra 5% on fuel!
....and we can drop VAT to below 15% once we leave the EU then.
I don't know why I thought you might acknowledge that the UK currently charges a higher rate of VAT than it could
Why is it 20% now and why would that suddenly no longer be desirable?
When Philip Hammond says "we will do whatever it takes to remain competitive in the global markets" what do you think he means then? "Just to clarify, you don't know why the rate is currently 20% then? Surely it would be set at 15% because that would make us more competitive now, right? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You realise that import tarriffs will get passed on to UK businessed and consumers raising the cost of living for everyone in Britain....right? And that the tarriffs imposed on British exports by the EU will go to the EU governments and we'll benefit from that and British goods will still be alot less competitive..." That's right. A tariff arrangement will make imports more expensive. But since I favour uk manufacturing and agriculture it makes British products more competitive the home market. You're right that tariffs would make our exports into the EU more expensive than today. This is currently morenthan offset by sterling being lower 15% ish than pre referndum, so even with tariffs our goods would be cheaper than previously. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other." The most sensible post on this thread .I am surprised at how many posters on this thread who now seem to consider themselves experts on tariffs . My thoughts exactly . Regardless of the tariff people will still have to buy our goods and we will still import . I prefer to base my opinion on what people who run businness say. A very successfull engineering businness based near the Irish border stated in this week's Sunday Times that he was not too bothered by the tariffs and the worse case scenario was an extra 5 %. Businesses survive based on quality of service , standard of s and quality of product and price . All t duties and taxes referede to cancel out at a Global level. In any event we might not be leaving the EU. We will be simply re entering on our own terms which would include tariff free trade , full border control , and abolition of any EU laws to which we are expected to adhere. The German motor industry will not want to lose our businness nor will any other EU country want to lose any trade with us . We can be confident that Teressa May and Philip Hammond will negotiate the best deal possible for us . All the economic indicators point to a bright future for us . Our engineering skills are world leading . | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You realise that import tarriffs will get passed on to UK businessed and consumers raising the cost of living for everyone in Britain....right? And that the tarriffs imposed on British exports by the EU will go to the EU governments and we'll benefit from that and British goods will still be alot less competitive... That's right. A tariff arrangement will make imports more expensive. But since I favour uk manufacturing and agriculture it makes British products more competitive the home market. You're right that tariffs would make our exports into the EU more expensive than today. This is currently morenthan offset by sterling being lower 15% ish than pre referndum, so even with tariffs our goods would be cheaper than previously." Ok so with the devaluation your imports are 15% more expensive. And with tarriffs it gets even more expensive. This is all going to increase the cost of living. At the same time if exports decrease then its going to cost jobs. Not to mention that the UK isnt self sufficient so they have to import. You may benefit in a few ways but overall this isnt going to work for you as evidenced by every other country thats tried to be protectionist/get in a trade war. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You realise that import tarriffs will get passed on to UK businessed and consumers raising the cost of living for everyone in Britain....right? And that the tarriffs imposed on British exports by the EU will go to the EU governments and we'll benefit from that and British goods will still be alot less competitive... That's right. A tariff arrangement will make imports more expensive. But since I favour uk manufacturing and agriculture it makes British products more competitive the home market. You're right that tariffs would make our exports into the EU more expensive than today. This is currently morenthan offset by sterling being lower 15% ish than pre referndum, so even with tariffs our goods would be cheaper than previously. Ok so with the devaluation your imports are 15% more expensive. And with tarriffs it gets even more expensive. This is all going to increase the cost of living. At the same time if exports decrease then its going to cost jobs. Not to mention that the UK isnt self sufficient so they have to import. You may benefit in a few ways but overall this isnt going to work for you as evidenced by every other country thats tried to be protectionist/get in a trade war." your such a happy person,will it it rain all summer as well cheer up soon be Christmas | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You realise that import tarriffs will get passed on to UK businessed and consumers raising the cost of living for everyone in Britain....right? And that the tarriffs imposed on British exports by the EU will go to the EU governments and we'll benefit from that and British goods will still be alot less competitive... That's right. A tariff arrangement will make imports more expensive. But since I favour uk manufacturing and agriculture it makes British products more competitive the home market. You're right that tariffs would make our exports into the EU more expensive than today. This is currently morenthan offset by sterling being lower 15% ish than pre referndum, so even with tariffs our goods would be cheaper than previously. Ok so with the devaluation your imports are 15% more expensive. And with tarriffs it gets even more expensive. This is all going to increase the cost of living. At the same time if exports decrease then its going to cost jobs. Not to mention that the UK isnt self sufficient so they have to import. You may benefit in a few ways but overall this isnt going to work for you as evidenced by every other country thats tried to be protectionist/get in a trade war." Exports wont decrease. Imports more expensive, agreed. Early on I said I prefer free trade. But tariff trade isn't a disaster, it's how we trade with the rest of the world and it works. In terms of self sufficiency and imports, I feel we have gone a long way off track for decades with the running down of manufacturing. We need to rebuild what we do here. This involves more than just this discussion, but investment in training and high quality education etc etc. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You realise that import tarriffs will get passed on to UK businessed and consumers raising the cost of living for everyone in Britain....right? And that the tarriffs imposed on British exports by the EU will go to the EU governments and we'll benefit from that and British goods will still be alot less competitive... That's right. A tariff arrangement will make imports more expensive. But since I favour uk manufacturing and agriculture it makes British products more competitive the home market. You're right that tariffs would make our exports into the EU more expensive than today. This is currently morenthan offset by sterling being lower 15% ish than pre referndum, so even with tariffs our goods would be cheaper than previously. Ok so with the devaluation your imports are 15% more expensive. And with tarriffs it gets even more expensive. This is all going to increase the cost of living. At the same time if exports decrease then its going to cost jobs. Not to mention that the UK isnt self sufficient so they have to import. You may benefit in a few ways but overall this isnt going to work for you as evidenced by every other country thats tried to be protectionist/get in a trade war." like the EU? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" As EasyUK just pointed out as a member of the EU the lowest we can go with VAT is 15%. Once we leave the EU the UK government can reduce VAT below 15% if it decided it wanted to (remember Philip Hammond saying "we will do whatever it takes"). Cutting VAT on imports would help the UK economy and businesses by neutralising some of the tariff increases that may come in if we go onto WTO terms. We keep being told by Remainers that many domestically produced goods rely on imported component parts so they will also benefit. Domestically produced goods have already seen the benefit of our decision to Leave with the drop in the value of the pound which has boosted our export market. Your economic acumen seems to be akin to Corbyn and McDonell economics of the loony left, increase taxes on everything! What you don't seem to realise when you increase taxes on everything you stifle business and drive business away. A female Labour MP was on BBC Newsnight a few days ago debating a Tory MP about the cut in corporation tax the tories have introduced. The Labour MP wanted it increased but the Tory MP had to explain to her by cutting corporation tax it has actually resulted in more income for the exchequer because it has attracted more business here and has allowed business to flourish. Your economics are a relic of the 1970's which is where it appears you still want to live, the world has moved on its time you did too. " Reduce VAT on all imports or do you pick and choose? Wouldn't domestic companies lobby to increase maintain tariffs on competitors which is how they keep jobs here? That's protectionist and increases costs. Oh dear, oh dear. You seem to have become remarkably credulous of politicians. So you believe this particular MP because he is a Tory, a man or a Brexit supporter? Any evidence before what he said? The research is really pretty equivocal. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You realise that import tarriffs will get passed on to UK businessed and consumers raising the cost of living for everyone in Britain....right? And that the tarriffs imposed on British exports by the EU will go to the EU governments and we'll benefit from that and British goods will still be alot less competitive... That's right. A tariff arrangement will make imports more expensive. But since I favour uk manufacturing and agriculture it makes British products more competitive the home market. You're right that tariffs would make our exports into the EU more expensive than today. This is currently morenthan offset by sterling being lower 15% ish than pre referndum, so even with tariffs our goods would be cheaper than previously. Ok so with the devaluation your imports are 15% more expensive. And with tarriffs it gets even more expensive. This is all going to increase the cost of living. At the same time if exports decrease then its going to cost jobs. Not to mention that the UK isnt self sufficient so they have to import. You may benefit in a few ways but overall this isnt going to work for you as evidenced by every other country thats tried to be protectionist/get in a trade war. Exports wont decrease. Imports more expensive, agreed. Early on I said I prefer free trade. But tariff trade isn't a disaster, it's how we trade with the rest of the world and it works. In terms of self sufficiency and imports, I feel we have gone a long way off track for decades with the running down of manufacturing. We need to rebuild what we do here. This involves more than just this discussion, but investment in training and high quality education etc etc." Imports don't necessarily need to become more expensive as a result of tariffs. Once we leave the EU, then we can reduce VAT on imports to cancel out the tariff increase. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" As EasyUK just pointed out as a member of the EU the lowest we can go with VAT is 15%. Once we leave the EU the UK government can reduce VAT below 15% if it decided it wanted to (remember Philip Hammond saying "we will do whatever it takes"). Cutting VAT on imports would help the UK economy and businesses by neutralising some of the tariff increases that may come in if we go onto WTO terms. We keep being told by Remainers that many domestically produced goods rely on imported component parts so they will also benefit. Domestically produced goods have already seen the benefit of our decision to Leave with the drop in the value of the pound which has boosted our export market. Your economic acumen seems to be akin to Corbyn and McDonell economics of the loony left, increase taxes on everything! What you don't seem to realise when you increase taxes on everything you stifle business and drive business away. A female Labour MP was on BBC Newsnight a few days ago debating a Tory MP about the cut in corporation tax the tories have introduced. The Labour MP wanted it increased but the Tory MP had to explain to her by cutting corporation tax it has actually resulted in more income for the exchequer because it has attracted more business here and has allowed business to flourish. Your economics are a relic of the 1970's which is where it appears you still want to live, the world has moved on its time you did too. Reduce VAT on all imports or do you pick and choose? Wouldn't domestic companies lobby to increase maintain tariffs on competitors which is how they keep jobs here? That's protectionist and increases costs. Oh dear, oh dear. You seem to have become remarkably credulous of politicians. So you believe this particular MP because he is a Tory, a man or a Brexit supporter? Any evidence before what he said? The research is really pretty equivocal. " Philip Hammond was actually a Remain supporter. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Imports don't necessarily need to become more expensive as a result of tariffs. Once we leave the EU, then we can reduce VAT on imports to cancel out the tariff increase. " If true, do you think that's the kind of thing that would be announced in the budget? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You realise that import tarriffs will get passed on to UK businessed and consumers raising the cost of living for everyone in Britain....right? And that the tarriffs imposed on British exports by the EU will go to the EU governments and we'll benefit from that and British goods will still be alot less competitive... That's right. A tariff arrangement will make imports more expensive. But since I favour uk manufacturing and agriculture it makes British products more competitive the home market. You're right that tariffs would make our exports into the EU more expensive than today. This is currently morenthan offset by sterling being lower 15% ish than pre referndum, so even with tariffs our goods would be cheaper than previously. Ok so with the devaluation your imports are 15% more expensive. And with tarriffs it gets even more expensive. This is all going to increase the cost of living. At the same time if exports decrease then its going to cost jobs. Not to mention that the UK isnt self sufficient so they have to import. You may benefit in a few ways but overall this isnt going to work for you as evidenced by every other country thats tried to be protectionist/get in a trade war. Exports wont decrease. Imports more expensive, agreed. Early on I said I prefer free trade. But tariff trade isn't a disaster, it's how we trade with the rest of the world and it works. In terms of self sufficiency and imports, I feel we have gone a long way off track for decades with the running down of manufacturing. We need to rebuild what we do here. This involves more than just this discussion, but investment in training and high quality education etc etc. Imports don't necessarily need to become more expensive as a result of tariffs. Once we leave the EU, then we can reduce VAT on imports to cancel out the tariff increase. " And how do you make up the tax shortfall? And with the currency devaluation plus tarriffs wouldnt you have to eliminate VAT altogether just to be in the place you were last year? Sounds like Brexit isnt working so well so far and A50 hasnt even been triggered yet. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" EU rules mean the UK cannot reduce VAT on goods and services below 15%, the standard rate of VAT in the EU. The standard rate of VAT in the UK is 20%, so the government could reduce it by up to 5% today if it wanted. Bloody EU, forcing us to pay an extra 5% on fuel!
....and we can drop VAT to below 15% once we leave the EU then.
I don't know why I thought you might acknowledge that the UK currently charges a higher rate of VAT than it could
Why is it 20% now and why would that suddenly no longer be desirable?
When Philip Hammond says "we will do whatever it takes to remain competitive in the global markets" what do you think he means then?
Just to clarify, you don't know why the rate is currently 20% then?
Surely it would be set at 15% because that would make us more competitive now, right? "Micheal Gove said as part of the Vote Leave campaign that as a result of leaving the EU the government should reduce VAT on fuel bills. It is now upto the government to implement the suggestions put forward by the Vote Leave campaign. You still didn't answer the question, what do you think Philip Hammond means when he says "we will do whatever it takes to remain competitive in the global market". | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Imports don't necessarily need to become more expensive as a result of tariffs. Once we leave the EU, then we can reduce VAT on imports to cancel out the tariff increase. If true, do you think that's the kind of thing that would be announced in the budget? " Today's budget? Article 50 hasn't even been triggered yet. LOL.
If it were to be introduced then it would be in the budget after negotiations with the EU are concluded and we Leave in 2019. So could be in the budget in 2019. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hello! The EU will still be a market for us. That isn't changing. The negotiation will establish either free trade or tariffed trade. We will still trade with each other. The most sensible post on this thread .I am surprised at how many posters on this thread who now seem to consider themselves experts on tariffs . My thoughts exactly . Regardless of the tariff people will still have to buy our goods and we will still import . I prefer to base my opinion on what people who run businness say. A very successfull engineering businness based near the Irish border stated in this week's Sunday Times that he was not too bothered by the tariffs and the worse case scenario was an extra 5 %. Businesses survive based on quality of service , standard of s and quality of product and price . All t duties and taxes referede to cancel out at a Global level. In any event we might not be leaving the EU. We will be simply re entering on our own terms which would include tariff free trade , full border control , and abolition of any EU laws to which we are expected to adhere. The German motor industry will not want to lose our businness nor will any other EU country want to lose any trade with us . We can be confident that Teressa May and Philip Hammond will negotiate the best deal possible for us . All the economic indicators point to a bright future for us . Our engineering skills are world leading . " Of course they will be "a market". We just don't know how attractive our goods and services will still be. So we wait. What does the EU have to buy from us? Just out of interest. All taxes cancel out at a global level? That is not at all useful or even verifiable. We might not leave the EU but get unrestricted access on our own terms. Really? Based on what?
You do keep banging on about the German automotive industry. Do you think that we will stop buying luxury German cars or even VW if the price increases? They are luxury brands do relatively price insensitive. Jaguar Land Rover is most likely to suffer with European sales as it is only just establishing itself as a credible competitor. This will really hurt it.
If your argument is that Europe, and therefore the UK, is a stagnant market and we can reduce EU trade in relation to the rest of the world, then why doesn't that also stand for the EU?
You are quite right, no EU company wants to lose our business. So?
The economic indicators don't point anywhere at all yet. There are all sorts of indicators pointing in all sorts of directions. You can cherry pick to "prove" any point if you desperately want to.
The best deal could be no deal. Your heroine already said that didn't she?
Our engineering skills are good, but not unique unfortunately.
It may turn out fine but please let a little reality in... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" EU rules mean the UK cannot reduce VAT on goods and services below 15%, the standard rate of VAT in the EU. The standard rate of VAT in the UK is 20%, so the government could reduce it by up to 5% today if it wanted. Bloody EU, forcing us to pay an extra 5% on fuel!
....and we can drop VAT to below 15% once we leave the EU then.
I don't know why I thought you might acknowledge that the UK currently charges a higher rate of VAT than it could
Why is it 20% now and why would that suddenly no longer be desirable?
When Philip Hammond says "we will do whatever it takes to remain competitive in the global markets" what do you think he means then?
Just to clarify, you don't know why the rate is currently 20% then?
Surely it would be set at 15% because that would make us more competitive now, right?
Micheal Gove said as part of the Vote Leave campaign that as a result of leaving the EU the government should reduce VAT on fuel bills. It is now upto the government to implement the suggestions put forward by the Vote Leave campaign. You still didn't answer the question, what do you think Philip Hammond means when he says "we will do whatever it takes to remain competitive in the global market". "The government don't actually have to do anything that Vote Leave "promised". In fact, they aren't even in a position to are they? "whatever it takes to remain competitive in the global market" could mean remove minimum wage, all labour protection and holiday entitlement couldn't it? Cheaper workforce, working harder. Just like China. Very competitive. Remove all environmental legislation. Dirty rivers and air. Less cost to companies. Reduce corporation tax and pay for services with higher income tax? Cut public services to reduce the tax burden? Take your pick. I won't expect you to respond to anything that I asked because you never do | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
From the Independent:
The report by the House of Lords EU financial affairs sub-committee explained:“Although there are competing interpretations, we conclude that if agreement is not reach, all EU law – including provisions concerning ongoing financial contributions and machinery for adjudication – will cease to apply, and the UK would be subject to no enforceable obligation to make any financial contribution at all.
“This would undesirable for the remaining member states, who would have to plug the hole in the budget created by the UK’s exit without any kind of transition. It would also damage the prospects of reaching a friendly agreement on other issues.”
The report noted that such a “disorderly exit” would create a legal and political void and that both sides – Britain and the EU – should recognise the gravity of a no-deal. “An inability to reach an agreement on the budget will undermine the Government’s aim to negotiate market access on favourable terms,” the authors added.
Commenting on the report, the chair of the Lords committee Baroness Falkner of Margravine said: “The UK appears to have a strong legal position in respect of the EU budget post-Brexit and this provides important context to the Article 50 negotiations.
“Even though we consider that the UK will not be legally obliged to pay in to the EU budget after Brexit, the issue will be a prominent factor in withdrawal negotiations. The Government will have to set the financial and political costs of making such payments against potential gains from other elements of the negotiations.
“The forthcoming negotiations will be more than just a trial of strength. They will be about establishing a stable, cooperative and amicable relationship between the UK and the EU. This will not be possible without good will on both sides.” | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Imports don't necessarily need to become more expensive as a result of tariffs. Once we leave the EU, then we can reduce VAT on imports to cancel out the tariff increase. If true, do you think that's the kind of thing that would be announced in the budget? Today's budget? Article 50 hasn't even been triggered yet. LOL.
If it were to be introduced then it would be in the budget after negotiations with the EU are concluded and we Leave in 2019. So could be in the budget in 2019."Why not in today's budget? If we became really attractive and super competitive now, wouldn't that put us in a better negotiating position? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Imports don't necessarily need to become more expensive as a result of tariffs. Once we leave the EU, then we can reduce VAT on imports to cancel out the tariff increase." Hang on let me make sure I've understood this correctly...Use a vat cut to offset a tariff increase?, so the cost to the UK consumer remains the same, but HMRC loses the vat income while the country of origin gains the tariff premium? What the actual fuck!!? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Micheal Gove said as part of the Vote Leave campaign that as a result of leaving the EU the government should reduce VAT on fuel bills" Who the fuck pays any attention to Michael Gove!? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Imports don't necessarily need to become more expensive as a result of tariffs. Once we leave the EU, then we can reduce VAT on imports to cancel out the tariff increase. Hang on let me make sure I've understood this correctly...Use a vat cut to offset a tariff increase?, so the cost to the UK consumer remains the same, but HMRC loses the vat income while the country of origin gains the tariff premium? What the actual fuck!!?" Well in fairness thats not exactly right. Import tarriffs on goods coming in to the UK would go to the UK govt. And VAT would also go to the govt. But the issue is that it would affect businesses in different ways depending on their circumstances. It would be a very complicated balancing act to pull off. The other issue is that the Sterlings devaluation is already putting an upward pressure on cost of living. So import tarriffs and devaluation is going to be a very difficult mountain to climb. You could argue that the UK should just decide not to put in import tarriffs but then they lose all leverage in trade negotiations. The UKs bargaining position is so weak right now that theyre trying to put moral pressure on the EU to cut a decent deal because thats their best tactic. Thats why you see statements from the House of Lords saying its not a negotiation to be entered into with anything other than partnership in mind and you have May trying to bring the issue of residency to the front. The UK is relying on moral and social pressure and to an extent it works. The original bill to leave the EU was 70 billion but it got argued down to 50 billion for the sake of "fairness". But with the UK turning its back on the very people it needs right now...well theres just not that much goodwill to go round. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Imports don't necessarily need to become more expensive as a result of tariffs. Once we leave the EU, then we can reduce VAT on imports to cancel out the tariff increase. Hang on let me make sure I've understood this correctly...Use a vat cut to offset a tariff increase?, so the cost to the UK consumer remains the same, but HMRC loses the vat income while the country of origin gains the tariff premium? What the actual fuck!!? Well in fairness thats not exactly right. Import tarriffs on goods coming in to the UK would go to the UK govt. And VAT would also go to the govt." The premium being the country of origin can maintain it's current export price while the uk exporter who is currently gaining from sterlings devaluation would see their advantage wiped out and/or the importing country's treasury gaining the tariff while HMRC loses the vat take and has to run faster to stand still. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Today's budget? Article 50 hasn't even been triggered yet. LOL.
If it were to be introduced then it would be in the budget after negotiations with the EU are concluded and we Leave in 2019. So could be in the budget in 2019.
Why not in today's budget? If we became really attractive and super competitive now, wouldn't that put us in a better negotiating position?"There are no tariffs to cancel out currently. That doesn't make sense. Or do you mean reduce vat on imports now regardless? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" The UK is relying on moral and social pressure and to an extent it works. The original bill to leave the EU was 70 billion but it got argued down to 50 billion for the sake of "fairness". But with the UK turning its back on the very people it needs right now...well theres just not that much goodwill to go round." I think both figures are just wild guestimates. The figure hasn't been argued down, a figure will be proposed when negotiations begin, then it will be arrived at in accordance with any other agreement reached. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Today's budget? Article 50 hasn't even been triggered yet. LOL.
If it were to be introduced then it would be in the budget after negotiations with the EU are concluded and we Leave in 2019. So could be in the budget in 2019.
Why not in today's budget? If we became really attractive and super competitive now, wouldn't that put us in a better negotiating position?
There are no tariffs to cancel out currently. That doesn't make sense.
Or do you mean reduce vat on imports now regardless?"Well Centaur is suggesting that reducing VAT will make the country more competitive. If that's the case, why not make it more competitive today? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Today's budget? Article 50 hasn't even been triggered yet. LOL.
If it were to be introduced then it would be in the budget after negotiations with the EU are concluded and we Leave in 2019. So could be in the budget in 2019.
Why not in today's budget? If we became really attractive and super competitive now, wouldn't that put us in a better negotiating position?
There are no tariffs to cancel out currently. That doesn't make sense.
Or do you mean reduce vat on imports now regardless?
Well Centaur is suggesting that reducing VAT will make the country more competitive. If that's the case, why not make it more competitive today? "OK, I'll leave you two to the traditional headbutting. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Today's budget? Article 50 hasn't even been triggered yet. LOL.
If it were to be introduced then it would be in the budget after negotiations with the EU are concluded and we Leave in 2019. So could be in the budget in 2019.
Why not in today's budget? If we became really attractive and super competitive now, wouldn't that put us in a better negotiating position?
There are no tariffs to cancel out currently. That doesn't make sense.
Or do you mean reduce vat on imports now regardless?
Well Centaur is suggesting that reducing VAT will make the country more competitive. If that's the case, why not make it more competitive today?
OK, I'll leave you two to the traditional headbutting."Are you not going to give an opinion on wether or not lowering VAT would make us more competitive or not? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Today's budget? Article 50 hasn't even been triggered yet. LOL.
If it were to be introduced then it would be in the budget after negotiations with the EU are concluded and we Leave in 2019. So could be in the budget in 2019.
Why not in today's budget? If we became really attractive and super competitive now, wouldn't that put us in a better negotiating position?
There are no tariffs to cancel out currently. That doesn't make sense.
Or do you mean reduce vat on imports now regardless?
Well Centaur is suggesting that reducing VAT will make the country more competitive. If that's the case, why not make it more competitive today?
OK, I'll leave you two to the traditional headbutting.
Are you not going to give an opinion on wether or not lowering VAT would make us more competitive or not? "Haven't given it much thought. It is a 2 year away hypothetical. If tarrifs come in future I'd probably say don't reduce. Can see some instances where ut could be argued on some goods. Vat reduction in general probably no. We cant afford it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Today's budget? Article 50 hasn't even been triggered yet. LOL.
If it were to be introduced then it would be in the budget after negotiations with the EU are concluded and we Leave in 2019. So could be in the budget in 2019.
Why not in today's budget? If we became really attractive and super competitive now, wouldn't that put us in a better negotiating position?
There are no tariffs to cancel out currently. That doesn't make sense.
Or do you mean reduce vat on imports now regardless?
Well Centaur is suggesting that reducing VAT will make the country more competitive. If that's the case, why not make it more competitive today?
OK, I'll leave you two to the traditional headbutting.
Are you not going to give an opinion on wether or not lowering VAT would make us more competitive or not?
Haven't given it much thought. It is a 2 year away hypothetical.
If tarrifs come in future I'd probably say don't reduce. Can see some instances where ut could be argued on some goods. Vat reduction in general probably no. We cant afford it."Why is it a two year away hypothetical? Don't you want the UK to be competitive now? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Today's budget? Article 50 hasn't even been triggered yet. LOL.
If it were to be introduced then it would be in the budget after negotiations with the EU are concluded and we Leave in 2019. So could be in the budget in 2019.
Why not in today's budget? If we became really attractive and super competitive now, wouldn't that put us in a better negotiating position?
There are no tariffs to cancel out currently. That doesn't make sense.
Or do you mean reduce vat on imports now regardless?
Well Centaur is suggesting that reducing VAT will make the country more competitive. If that's the case, why not make it more competitive today?
OK, I'll leave you two to the traditional headbutting.
Are you not going to give an opinion on wether or not lowering VAT would make us more competitive or not?
Haven't given it much thought. It is a 2 year away hypothetical.
If tarrifs come in future I'd probably say don't reduce. Can see some instances where ut could be argued on some goods. Vat reduction in general probably no. We cant afford it.
Why is it a two year away hypothetical? Don't you want the UK to be competitive now? "we are | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Today's budget? Article 50 hasn't even been triggered yet. LOL.
If it were to be introduced then it would be in the budget after negotiations with the EU are concluded and we Leave in 2019. So could be in the budget in 2019.
Why not in today's budget? If we became really attractive and super competitive now, wouldn't that put us in a better negotiating position?
There are no tariffs to cancel out currently. That doesn't make sense.
Or do you mean reduce vat on imports now regardless?
Well Centaur is suggesting that reducing VAT will make the country more competitive. If that's the case, why not make it more competitive today?
OK, I'll leave you two to the traditional headbutting.
Are you not going to give an opinion on wether or not lowering VAT would make us more competitive or not?
Haven't given it much thought. It is a 2 year away hypothetical.
If tarrifs come in future I'd probably say don't reduce. Can see some instances where ut could be argued on some goods. Vat reduction in general probably no. We cant afford it.
Why is it a two year away hypothetical? Don't you want the UK to be competitive now?
we are"So you disagree with Centaur then that we need to reduce VAT to become competitive or more competitive? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Today's budget? Article 50 hasn't even been triggered yet. LOL.
If it were to be introduced then it would be in the budget after negotiations with the EU are concluded and we Leave in 2019. So could be in the budget in 2019.
Why not in today's budget? If we became really attractive and super competitive now, wouldn't that put us in a better negotiating position?
There are no tariffs to cancel out currently. That doesn't make sense.
Or do you mean reduce vat on imports now regardless?
Well Centaur is suggesting that reducing VAT will make the country more competitive. If that's the case, why not make it more competitive today?
OK, I'll leave you two to the traditional headbutting.
Are you not going to give an opinion on wether or not lowering VAT would make us more competitive or not?
Haven't given it much thought. It is a 2 year away hypothetical.
If tarrifs come in future I'd probably say don't reduce. Can see some instances where ut could be argued on some goods. Vat reduction in general probably no. We cant afford it.
Why is it a two year away hypothetical? Don't you want the UK to be competitive now?
we are
So you disagree with Centaur then that we need to reduce VAT to become competitive or more competitive? "No. Just not now | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Today's budget? Article 50 hasn't even been triggered yet. LOL.
If it were to be introduced then it would be in the budget after negotiations with the EU are concluded and we Leave in 2019. So could be in the budget in 2019.
Why not in today's budget? If we became really attractive and super competitive now, wouldn't that put us in a better negotiating position?
There are no tariffs to cancel out currently. That doesn't make sense.
Or do you mean reduce vat on imports now regardless?
Well Centaur is suggesting that reducing VAT will make the country more competitive. If that's the case, why not make it more competitive today?
OK, I'll leave you two to the traditional headbutting.
Are you not going to give an opinion on wether or not lowering VAT would make us more competitive or not?
Haven't given it much thought. It is a 2 year away hypothetical.
If tarrifs come in future I'd probably say don't reduce. Can see some instances where ut could be argued on some goods. Vat reduction in general probably no. We cant afford it.
Why is it a two year away hypothetical? Don't you want the UK to be competitive now?
we are
So you disagree with Centaur then that we need to reduce VAT to become competitive or more competitive?
No. Just not now"So you believe that reducing VAT would make the UK more competitive, but you don't want to make the UK to be more competitive now, you want to wait, and then make the UK more competitive in the future? Is that right? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So now there are reports of a £1.7bn fee to the UK for customs fraud: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/08/prospect-of-17bn-fine-looms-large-over-pms-talks-with-eu-leaders Going to be a bit of a tricky negotiations I think. -Matt " . All these dodgy goods being shipped to the UK from China and into the EU, would these be counted on these often quoted figures of goods shipped between UK and EU, I mean when we say we sell x billon to France or Spain are we counting these dodgy goods that we didnt really make anything on except a bit of duty? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Today's budget? Article 50 hasn't even been triggered yet. LOL.
If it were to be introduced then it would be in the budget after negotiations with the EU are concluded and we Leave in 2019. So could be in the budget in 2019.
Why not in today's budget? If we became really attractive and super competitive now, wouldn't that put us in a better negotiating position?
There are no tariffs to cancel out currently. That doesn't make sense.
Or do you mean reduce vat on imports now regardless?
Well Centaur is suggesting that reducing VAT will make the country more competitive. If that's the case, why not make it more competitive today?
OK, I'll leave you two to the traditional headbutting.
Are you not going to give an opinion on wether or not lowering VAT would make us more competitive or not?
Haven't given it much thought. It is a 2 year away hypothetical.
If tarrifs come in future I'd probably say don't reduce. Can see some instances where ut could be argued on some goods. Vat reduction in general probably no. We cant afford it.
Why is it a two year away hypothetical? Don't you want the UK to be competitive now?
we are
So you disagree with Centaur then that we need to reduce VAT to become competitive or more competitive?
No. Just not now
So you believe that reducing VAT would make the UK more competitive, but you don't want to make the UK to be more competitive now, you want to wait, and then make the UK more competitive in the future? Is that right? "If need be yes. There is a balance. Do you want to make the UK more competetive now? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" The UK is relying on moral and social pressure and to an extent it works. The original bill to leave the EU was 70 billion but it got argued down to 50 billion for the sake of "fairness". But with the UK turning its back on the very people it needs right now...well theres just not that much goodwill to go round. I think both figures are just wild guestimates. The figure hasn't been argued down, a figure will be proposed when negotiations begin, then it will be arrived at in accordance with any other agreement reached." Well they arent guesstimates but they are the opening position of the EU. So while it may be negotiated down that means the UK offering something valuable in exchange. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" The UK is relying on moral and social pressure and to an extent it works. The original bill to leave the EU was 70 billion but it got argued down to 50 billion for the sake of "fairness". But with the UK turning its back on the very people it needs right now...well theres just not that much goodwill to go round. I think both figures are just wild guestimates. The figure hasn't been argued down, a figure will be proposed when negotiations begin, then it will be arrived at in accordance with any other agreement reached. Well they arent guesstimates but they are the opening position of the EU. So while it may be negotiated down that means the UK offering something valuable in exchange. " . This is where we need a farmer for negotiation, after much uming and arring our counter offer would be 1 1 billon?. No just 1 .
Then we come back next week, spend another hour looking at it and say ummm go on then, ill give you 2 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" The UK is relying on moral and social pressure and to an extent it works. The original bill to leave the EU was 70 billion but it got argued down to 50 billion for the sake of "fairness". But with the UK turning its back on the very people it needs right now...well theres just not that much goodwill to go round. I think both figures are just wild guestimates. The figure hasn't been argued down, a figure will be proposed when negotiations begin, then it will be arrived at in accordance with any other agreement reached. Well they arent guesstimates but they are the opening position of the EU. So while it may be negotiated down that means the UK offering something valuable in exchange. " who exactly needs who .I think they needed us more just like they always have in the past .there's been v little benefit being in Europe up this way .the wonders of Brussels are faceless .let's see where we all are in five years time then we might get a clearer picture .until then brexit means brexit .I don't remember all the crap with the first vote .we were told we are in like it or lump it .today we are in a world where we have to keep voting until you get a result thought to be best .OK so unless arsenal win the FA cup we will keep on playing until they do .Messers.Major ,Blair ,Hessletine can go live over there I for one won't miss them ..we can all agree to disagree .give it a chance you might like it.have a nice day everyone I'm off to the greengrocers to get a cucumber that doesn't come under some silly euro nonsense .I've said my bit now carry on arguing in or out . | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Haven't given it much thought. It is a 2 year away hypothetical. If tarrifs come in future I'd probably say don't reduce. Can see some instances where ut could be argued on some goods. Vat reduction in general probably no. We cant afford it. Why is it a two year away hypothetical? Don't you want the UK to be competitive now? " Tariffs are hypothetical. I don't know what Centaur said, and cba reading back. Just correct him if you think he's wrong. Remember opinions differ on what is the best route. I disagree with a lot of what Centaur says. It is possible to have your own individual opinions, not always necessary to blindly follow one dogmatic ideal. Worth remembering IMO. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Haven't given it much thought. It is a 2 year away hypothetical. If tarrifs come in future I'd probably say don't reduce. Can see some instances where ut could be argued on some goods. Vat reduction in general probably no. We cant afford it. Why is it a two year away hypothetical? Don't you want the UK to be competitive now? Tariffs are hypothetical. I don't know what Centaur said, and cba reading back. Just correct him if you think he's wrong. Remember opinions differ on what is the best route. I disagree with a lot of what Centaur says. It is possible to have your own individual opinions, not always necessary to blindly follow one dogmatic ideal. Worth remembering IMO." Tariffs aren't a hypothetical by the way, we leave, we revert to WTO, then we discuss trade. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Imports don't necessarily need to become more expensive as a result of tariffs. Once we leave the EU, then we can reduce VAT on imports to cancel out the tariff increase. Hang on let me make sure I've understood this correctly...Use a vat cut to offset a tariff increase?, so the cost to the UK consumer remains the same, but HMRC loses the vat income while the country of origin gains the tariff premium? What the actual fuck!!? Well in fairness thats not exactly right. Import tarriffs on goods coming in to the UK would go to the UK govt. And VAT would also go to the govt. But the issue is that it would affect businesses in different ways depending on their circumstances. It would be a very complicated balancing act to pull off. The other issue is that the Sterlings devaluation is already putting an upward pressure on cost of living. So import tarriffs and devaluation is going to be a very difficult mountain to climb. You could argue that the UK should just decide not to put in import tarriffs but then they lose all leverage in trade negotiations. The UKs bargaining position is so weak right now that theyre trying to put moral pressure on the EU to cut a decent deal because thats their best tactic. Thats why you see statements from the House of Lords saying its not a negotiation to be entered into with anything other than partnership in mind and you have May trying to bring the issue of residency to the front. The UK is relying on moral and social pressure and to an extent it works. The original bill to leave the EU was 70 billion but it got argued down to 50 billion for the sake of "fairness". But with the UK turning its back on the very people it needs right now...well theres just not that much goodwill to go round." Luckily we have a booming stock market which clearly illustrates the confidence of investors in the future of the UK. Luckily the economic growth prospects look good and in addition due to the fall in value of sterling our e xports are much more competitive . In any event the pound was over valued . Leaving will not cost us anything as there is no legal obligation to pay any costs of termination. Our future is hardly dependent on a few tweaks to duties paid. . Our future depends on quality of service in addition price and quality of goods sold . The German motor industry will not want to see any damage to us as we wish to work together for the future of the motor industry . In addition we have world class engineering skills , that being one of the reasons why 8 out of 11 formula 1 racing teams are based here . A few tweaks to duties are hardly going to ruin us . | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Haven't given it much thought. It is a 2 year away hypothetical. If tarrifs come in future I'd probably say don't reduce. Can see some instances where ut could be argued on some goods. Vat reduction in general probably no. We cant afford it. Why is it a two year away hypothetical? Don't you want the UK to be competitive now? Tariffs are hypothetical. I don't know what Centaur said, and cba reading back. Just correct him if you think he's wrong. Remember opinions differ on what is the best route. I disagree with a lot of what Centaur says. It is possible to have your own individual opinions, not always necessary to blindly follow one dogmatic ideal. Worth remembering IMO. Tariffs aren't a hypothetical by the way, we leave, we revert to WTO, then we discuss trade. " Watch that space... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Haven't given it much thought. It is a 2 year away hypothetical. If tarrifs come in future I'd probably say don't reduce. Can see some instances where ut could be argued on some goods. Vat reduction in general probably no. We cant afford it. Why is it a two year away hypothetical? Don't you want the UK to be competitive now? Tariffs are hypothetical. I don't know what Centaur said, and cba reading back. Just correct him if you think he's wrong. Remember opinions differ on what is the best route. I disagree with a lot of what Centaur says. It is possible to have your own individual opinions, not always necessary to blindly follow one dogmatic ideal. Worth remembering IMO." It's nice to have an actual discussion | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Britain will be handed a £50bn exit bill by the eu when may triggers article 50, chief negotiator for brussels warns, does that mean they cant leave until they have payed it all? So it could take up to 10 years as it is alot and no matter how much she negotiates, they wont bend the rules." So in those ten years,Britain will be free to make it's own laws, Will not be obliged,by EU freedom of movement regulations, and still have access to the EU single market. While at the same time,free to negotiate, free trade deals world wide. Sounds like the best divorce deal ever. Keep on shagging,until you find something better. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I thought the EU weren't allowed to say anything about the negotiations until A 50 had been triggered." It seems the EU like to talk about issuing bills before Article 50 is triggered but when it comes to settling the minds and the rights of their own citizens they prefer not to talk about that and prefer to use their own citizens as bargaining chips. The EU really are starting to show their true colours now and it's not a pretty sight. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Micheal Gove said as part of the Vote Leave campaign that as a result of leaving the EU the government should reduce VAT on fuel bills Who the fuck pays any attention to Michael Gove!?" 17.5 million British people who voted Leave in the referendum. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Imports don't necessarily need to become more expensive as a result of tariffs. Once we leave the EU, then we can reduce VAT on imports to cancel out the tariff increase. Hang on let me make sure I've understood this correctly...Use a vat cut to offset a tariff increase?, so the cost to the UK consumer remains the same, but HMRC loses the vat income while the country of origin gains the tariff premium? What the actual fuck!!? Well in fairness thats not exactly right. Import tarriffs on goods coming in to the UK would go to the UK govt. And VAT would also go to the govt. The premium being the country of origin can maintain it's current export price while the uk exporter who is currently gaining from sterlings devaluation would see their advantage wiped out and/or the importing country's treasury gaining the tariff while HMRC loses the vat take and has to run faster to stand still." Standing still would mean the UK economy is growing at 2% which is where we are now (one of the best, if not the best in the G7 this year) and also better than the EU. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Micheal Gove said as part of the Vote Leave campaign that as a result of leaving the EU the government should reduce VAT on fuel bills Who the fuck pays any attention to Michael Gove!? 17.5 million British people who voted Leave in the referendum. " So not the 47m who didn't vote leave then? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Micheal Gove said as part of the Vote Leave campaign that as a result of leaving the EU the government should reduce VAT on fuel bills Who the fuck pays any attention to Michael Gove!? 17.5 million British people who voted Leave in the referendum. So not the 47m who didn't vote leave then? " Of which 16 million voted to stay (note less than the ones who voted leave) and the rest couldn't be arsed either way. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Britain will be handed a £50bn exit bill by the eu when may triggers article 50, chief negotiator for brussels warns, does that mean they cant leave until they have payed it all? So it could take up to 10 years as it is alot and no matter how much she negotiates, they wont bend the rules. So in those ten years,Britain will be free to make it's own laws, Will not be obliged,by EU freedom of movement regulations, and still have access to the EU single market. While at the same time,free to negotiate, free trade deals world wide. Sounds like the best divorce deal ever. Keep on shagging,until you find something better. "
Cant tell if thats a serious reply.
But no you wont be able to enact new trade deals or restrict the free movement of EU citizens or enact laws contravening EU law while youre in the single market. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I thought the EU weren't allowed to say anything about the negotiations until A 50 had been triggered. It seems the EU like to talk about issuing bills before Article 50 is triggered but when it comes to settling the minds and the rights of their own citizens they prefer not to talk about that and prefer to use their own citizens as bargaining chips. The EU really are starting to show their true colours now and it's not a pretty sight. " The EU will negotiate everything in its own time because they are the ones with the negotiating power. Why agree to Mays idea now when the EU can get a better deal for its citizens later? Mays already offered to let current EU citizens stay, the EU is hardly going to ask for a lesser position than that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Micheal Gove said as part of the Vote Leave campaign that as a result of leaving the EU the government should reduce VAT on fuel bills Who the fuck pays any attention to Michael Gove!? 17.5 million British people who voted Leave in the referendum. So not the 47m who didn't vote leave then? " The 2 year olds weren't tall enough to reach the voting booth with their crayon | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Micheal Gove said as part of the Vote Leave campaign that as a result of leaving the EU the government should reduce VAT on fuel bills Who the fuck pays any attention to Michael Gove!? 17.5 million British people who voted Leave in the referendum. So not the 47m who didn't vote leave then? The 2 year olds weren't tall enough to reach the voting booth with their crayon "The question was "who pays attention to Michael Gove" you can either agree with me that those 2 year olds with their crayons don't pay attention to Michael Gove, or you can argue that two year olds do indeed pay attention to Michael Gove. Which will you chose? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Micheal Gove said as part of the Vote Leave campaign that as a result of leaving the EU the government should reduce VAT on fuel bills Who the fuck pays any attention to Michael Gove!? 17.5 million British people who voted Leave in the referendum. So not the 47m who didn't vote leave then? The 2 year olds weren't tall enough to reach the voting booth with their crayon "Ha,
"Counting Officers have verified that a total of 33,568,184 ballot papers will be included in the count for the referendum.
Based on a confirmed electorate of 46,500,001, turnout at the referendum was 72.2 percent,"
So you could say 29,089,259 maybe didn't | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Micheal Gove said as part of the Vote Leave campaign that as a result of leaving the EU the government should reduce VAT on fuel bills Who the fuck pays any attention to Michael Gove!? 17.5 million British people who voted Leave in the referendum. So not the 47m who didn't vote leave then? The 2 year olds weren't tall enough to reach the voting booth with their crayon
The question was "who pays attention to Michael Gove" you can either agree with me that those 2 year olds with their crayons don't pay attention to Michael Gove, or you can argue that two year olds do indeed pay attention to Michael Gove. Which will you chose? "ah another question. I think you understand the point made regarding your 17m vs 47m comment. In case it's too complicated, it means 17m voted to leave, you've added in to the 'didn't vote leave' everyone who isn't even franchised to vote. i.e a meaningless comparison. Next time say 7.4 billion didn't vote leave, it has even more impact. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Micheal Gove said as part of the Vote Leave campaign that as a result of leaving the EU the government should reduce VAT on fuel bills Who the fuck pays any attention to Michael Gove!? 17.5 million British people who voted Leave in the referendum. So not the 47m who didn't vote leave then? The 2 year olds weren't tall enough to reach the voting booth with their crayon
Ha,
"Counting Officers have verified that a total of 33,568,184 ballot papers will be included in the count for the referendum.
Based on a confirmed electorate of 46,500,001, turnout at the referendum was 72.2 percent,"
So you could say 29,089,259 maybe didn't "You mean that CLCC has put some dodgy figures out? I don't believe it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Micheal Gove said as part of the Vote Leave campaign that as a result of leaving the EU the government should reduce VAT on fuel bills Who the fuck pays any attention to Michael Gove!? 17.5 million British people who voted Leave in the referendum. So not the 47m who didn't vote leave then? The 2 year olds weren't tall enough to reach the voting booth with their crayon
The question was "who pays attention to Michael Gove" you can either agree with me that those 2 year olds with their crayons don't pay attention to Michael Gove, or you can argue that two year olds do indeed pay attention to Michael Gove. Which will you chose?
ah another question. I think you understand the point made regarding your 17m vs 47m comment.
In case it's too complicated, it means 17m voted to leave, you've added in to the 'didn't vote leave' everyone who isn't even franchised to vote. i.e a meaningless comparison.
Next time say 7.4 billion didn't vote leave, it has even more impact."Not another question, the same question. Who pays attention to Michael Gove? You are suggesting that 2 year olds do. Care to offer any evidence to support your position? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Micheal Gove said as part of the Vote Leave campaign that as a result of leaving the EU the government should reduce VAT on fuel bills Who the fuck pays any attention to Michael Gove!? 17.5 million British people who voted Leave in the referendum. So not the 47m who didn't vote leave then? The 2 year olds weren't tall enough to reach the voting booth with their crayon
Ha,
"Counting Officers have verified that a total of 33,568,184 ballot papers will be included in the count for the referendum.
Based on a confirmed electorate of 46,500,001, turnout at the referendum was 72.2 percent,"
So you could say 29,089,259 maybe didn't
You mean that CLCC has put some dodgy figures out?
I don't believe it. "So you also believe that toddlers pay attention to what Michael Gove says? What a strange position to take up | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Micheal Gove said as part of the Vote Leave campaign that as a result of leaving the EU the government should reduce VAT on fuel bills Who the fuck pays any attention to Michael Gove!? 17.5 million British people who voted Leave in the referendum. So not the 47m who didn't vote leave then? The 2 year olds weren't tall enough to reach the voting booth with their crayon
Ha,
"Counting Officers have verified that a total of 33,568,184 ballot papers will be included in the count for the referendum.
Based on a confirmed electorate of 46,500,001, turnout at the referendum was 72.2 percent,"
So you could say 29,089,259 maybe didn't
You mean that CLCC has put some dodgy figures out?
I don't believe it. "Well, there definitely wasn't 47 million eligible voters left after the Leave voters are taken out of the equation | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Micheal Gove said as part of the Vote Leave campaign that as a result of leaving the EU the government should reduce VAT on fuel bills Who the fuck pays any attention to Michael Gove!? 17.5 million British people who voted Leave in the referendum. So not the 47m who didn't vote leave then? The 2 year olds weren't tall enough to reach the voting booth with their crayon
Ha,
"Counting Officers have verified that a total of 33,568,184 ballot papers will be included in the count for the referendum.
Based on a confirmed electorate of 46,500,001, turnout at the referendum was 72.2 percent,"
So you could say 29,089,259 maybe didn't
You mean that CLCC has put some dodgy figures out?
I don't believe it.
So you also believe that toddlers pay attention to what Michael Gove says? What a strange position to take up "To be fair the question came about as follows " Who the fuck pays any attention to Michael Gove!? 17.5 million British people who voted Leave in the referendum. " So not the 47m who didn't vote leave then? " The problem was there wasn't 47 million eligible voters left after the leave voters are deducted. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" ah another question. I think you understand the point made regarding your 17m vs 47m comment. In case it's too complicated, it means 17m voted to leave, you've added in to the 'didn't vote leave' everyone who isn't even franchised to vote. i.e a meaningless comparison. Next time say 7.4 billion didn't vote leave, it has even more impact. Not another question, the same question. Who pays attention to Michael Gove? You are suggesting that 2 year olds do. Care to offer any evidence to support your position? " Is this the playground?? Your 47 million comparison to 17 million is ridiculous. I'm finding a thread where an interesting sensible discussion can be had. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" ah another question. I think you understand the point made regarding your 17m vs 47m comment. In case it's too complicated, it means 17m voted to leave, you've added in to the 'didn't vote leave' everyone who isn't even franchised to vote. i.e a meaningless comparison. Next time say 7.4 billion didn't vote leave, it has even more impact. Not another question, the same question. Who pays attention to Michael Gove? You are suggesting that 2 year olds do. Care to offer any evidence to support your position? Is this the playground?? Your 47 million comparison to 17 million is ridiculous. I'm finding a thread where an interesting sensible discussion can be had." Good luck on that one | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is this the playground?? Your 47 million comparison to 17 million is ridiculous. I'm finding a thread where an interesting sensible discussion can be had. Good luck on that one "Unfortunately, in this forum there are very few threads like that. There have been one or two lately that had interesting sections and people did debate properly and bounce ideas around. Unfortunately some posters think they are on Question Time and squirm the discussion away from any points that might not be going their way. It would be great to see some posts where we take on board other peoples ideas and experience rather than just trying to appear right. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Micheal Gove said as part of the Vote Leave campaign that as a result of leaving the EU the government should reduce VAT on fuel bills Who the fuck pays any attention to Michael Gove!? 17.5 million British people who voted Leave in the referendum. So not the 47m who didn't vote leave then? The 2 year olds weren't tall enough to reach the voting booth with their crayon
Ha,
"Counting Officers have verified that a total of 33,568,184 ballot papers will be included in the count for the referendum.
Based on a confirmed electorate of 46,500,001, turnout at the referendum was 72.2 percent,"
So you could say 29,089,259 maybe didn't
You mean that CLCC has put some dodgy figures out?
I don't believe it.
So you also believe that toddlers pay attention to what Michael Gove says? What a strange position to take up "This could have been written for you. Come with me, and we'll be, in a world of pure imagination. Nothing to do with 2 year olds 10 year olds or any other year olds. As you well know I was calling you out on your usual bullshit figures that 47 million out of an electorate of 46 million wanted to stay in the EU. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Micheal Gove said as part of the Vote Leave campaign that as a result of leaving the EU the government should reduce VAT on fuel bills Who the fuck pays any attention to Michael Gove!? 17.5 million British people who voted Leave in the referendum. So not the 47m who didn't vote leave then? The 2 year olds weren't tall enough to reach the voting booth with their crayon
Ha,
"Counting Officers have verified that a total of 33,568,184 ballot papers will be included in the count for the referendum.
Based on a confirmed electorate of 46,500,001, turnout at the referendum was 72.2 percent,"
So you could say 29,089,259 maybe didn't
You mean that CLCC has put some dodgy figures out?
I don't believe it.
So you also believe that toddlers pay attention to what Michael Gove says? What a strange position to take up
This could have been written for you.
Come with me, and we'll be, in a world of pure imagination.
Nothing to do with 2 year olds 10 year olds or any other year olds.
As you well know I was calling you out on your usual bullshit figures that 47 million out of an electorate of 46 million wanted to stay in the EU."I never said about the size of the electorate. I said that 47m people in the UK did not vote leave. Is that statement true or false? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" As you well know I was calling you out on your usual bullshit figures that 47 million out of an electorate of 46 million wanted to stay in the EU. I never said about the size of the electorate. I said that 47m people in the UK did not vote leave. Is that statement true or false?" 47m did not vote leave. You are clearly the cleverist on here. Have a sticker for your clever boy chart. We all feel like idiots now. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" As you well know I was calling you out on your usual bullshit figures that 47 million out of an electorate of 46 million wanted to stay in the EU. I never said about the size of the electorate. I said that 47m people in the UK did not vote leave. Is that statement true or false? 47m did not vote leave. You are clearly the cleverist on here. Have a sticker for your clever boy chart. We all feel like idiots now." See how much better it is when you look at what has actually been said, rather than focusing on which poster said it? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" As you well know I was calling you out on your usual bullshit figures that 47 million out of an electorate of 46 million wanted to stay in the EU. I never said about the size of the electorate. I said that 47m people in the UK did not vote leave. Is that statement true or false? 47m did not vote leave. You are clearly the cleverist on here. Have a sticker for your clever boy chart. We all feel like idiots now. See how much better it is when you look at what has actually been said, rather than focusing on which poster said it?" You genuinely think you have made a point don't you?? I'm pleased for you. So much so, you can have another sticker for your chart. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" As you well know I was calling you out on your usual bullshit figures that 47 million out of an electorate of 46 million wanted to stay in the EU. I never said about the size of the electorate. I said that 47m people in the UK did not vote leave. Is that statement true or false? 47m did not vote leave. You are clearly the cleverist on here. Have a sticker for your clever boy chart. We all feel like idiots now. See how much better it is when you look at what has actually been said, rather than focusing on which poster said it?" Has it changed the result in any way? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" As you well know I was calling you out on your usual bullshit figures that 47 million out of an electorate of 46 million wanted to stay in the EU. I never said about the size of the electorate. I said that 47m people in the UK did not vote leave. Is that statement true or false? 47m did not vote leave. You are clearly the cleverist on here. Have a sticker for your clever boy chart. We all feel like idiots now. See how much better it is when you look at what has actually been said, rather than focusing on which poster said it? You genuinely think you have made a point don't you?? I'm pleased for you. So much so, you can have another sticker for your chart." Yes I think it's a step forward now that you are willing to accept that toddlers dont care about what Michael Gove says. If we can get you to accept that being able to feed and shelter yourself is an important part of a successful career we will really be making progress. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" As you well know I was calling you out on your usual bullshit figures that 47 million out of an electorate of 46 million wanted to stay in the EU. I never said about the size of the electorate. I said that 47m people in the UK did not vote leave. Is that statement true or false? 47m did not vote leave. You are clearly the cleverist on here. Have a sticker for your clever boy chart. We all feel like idiots now. See how much better it is when you look at what has actually been said, rather than focusing on which poster said it? Has it changed the result in any way?" I don't think it has. My understanding of the system is that they add up all the votes cast for one option and add up all the votes cast for the other. The one with most votes wins. Toddlers, the population of china and insects are ineligible to vote. So their non-existant polling card is ignored. The result is then actioned by the government. Most people lose interest and carry on with life, some stay interested and others go into meltdown because the stupid people didn't listen to them. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"simple .... just deduct £2,857 from the wages of 17,500,000 people who voted leave .... job done .... next You forget or choose to ignore that on June 24th last year, we all became Leavers.But we dont have the same views as a brexiter tho. And what difference does that make? Do you want to live in a democracy or not?Yes I do, but even tho you dont have to accept the outcome. Maybe i'll set up a headstone business. Might make a fortune on headstones "here lies a Remainer, bitter and twisted to the end" " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" As you well know I was calling you out on your usual bullshit figures that 47 million out of an electorate of 46 million wanted to stay in the EU. I never said about the size of the electorate. I said that 47m people in the UK did not vote leave. Is that statement true or false? 47m did not vote leave. You are clearly the cleverist on here. Have a sticker for your clever boy chart. We all feel like idiots now. See how much better it is when you look at what has actually been said, rather than focusing on which poster said it? You genuinely think you have made a point don't you?? I'm pleased for you. So much so, you can have another sticker for your chart. Yes I think it's a step forward now that you are willing to accept that toddlers dont care about what Michael Gove says. If we can get you to accept that being able to feed and shelter yourself is an important part of a successful career we will really be making progress. " The tediousness of these discussions is mind-numbing. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" As you well know I was calling you out on your usual bullshit figures that 47 million out of an electorate of 46 million wanted to stay in the EU. I never said about the size of the electorate. I said that 47m people in the UK did not vote leave. Is that statement true or false? 47m did not vote leave. You are clearly the cleverist on here. Have a sticker for your clever boy chart. We all feel like idiots now. See how much better it is when you look at what has actually been said, rather than focusing on which poster said it? Has it changed the result in any way? I don't think it has. My understanding of the system is that they add up all the votes cast for one option and add up all the votes cast for the other. The one with most votes wins. Toddlers, the population of china and insects are ineligible to vote. So their non-existant polling card is ignored. The result is then actioned by the government. Most people lose interest and carry on with life, some stay interested and others go into meltdown because the stupid people didn't listen to them." The question wasn't about leaving or remaining in the EU though was it. The question, yet again, was who pays attention to Michael Gove? You guy's are really really struggling with such a simple question. I can't understand why you are so challenged by this. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
