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Sir John Major
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"What? No outraged thread(s) about John Major and his comments? Is that only reserved for for Labour leaders? " I'll happily put John Major down but I've not seen the news. What has he said? | |||
"What? No outraged thread(s) about John Major and his comments? Is that only reserved for for Labour leaders? " There is a thread slamming Heseltine, you commented on it. | |||
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"What? No outraged thread(s) about John Major and his comments? Is that only reserved for for Labour leaders? There is a thread slamming Heseltine, you commented on it. " That's old news. | |||
"This is not a left vs right debate. It's an in and out debate. Sliced our demographic differently." I know. It's just that there is a left/right bias on what gets slammed on here. I think the future of the in/out dynamic will do more to reshape the political landscape than is currently apparent. Everyone is still fighting seats on a party political basis but I can see it shifting. | |||
"What? No outraged thread(s) about John Major and his comments? Is that only reserved for for Labour leaders? I'll happily put John Major down but I've not seen the news. What has he said? " Just had a look on the news and have seen it now. John Major just another butt hurt sore loser over Brexit. Yesterday's man just like Blair. | |||
"What? No outraged thread(s) about John Major and his comments? Is that only reserved for for Labour leaders? I'll happily put John Major down but I've not seen the news. What has he said? Just had a look on the news and have seen it now. John Major just another butt hurt sore loser over Brexit. Yesterday's man just like Blair. " Why do you think they are being encouraged to speak out? Both had a fair chunk of time in Number 10. They know how the world works. Aren't their views informed and considered? | |||
"What? No outraged thread(s) about John Major and his comments? Is that only reserved for for Labour leaders? I'll happily put John Major down but I've not seen the news. What has he said? Just had a look on the news and have seen it now. John Major just another butt hurt sore loser over Brexit. Yesterday's man just like Blair. Why do you think they are being encouraged to speak out? Both had a fair chunk of time in Number 10. They know how the world works. Aren't their views informed and considered? " It's on BBC 2 Newsnight now about it. | |||
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"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too?" Old news, had their say, not relevant etc. | |||
"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too?" I wonder if the much revered Churchill were still alive and said Brexit (hard/soft/whatever) would cost a lot and be difficult would be be turned on too? | |||
"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too? I wonder if the much revered Churchill were still alive and said Brexit (hard/soft/whatever) would cost a lot and be difficult would be be turned on too? " It won't change their minds. But people should have some respect. Just simply say you don't agree. Going into insults just degrades the debate. They say an argument is to prove who's right. A discussion is to find out what's right together. Too many argumentative people here. | |||
"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too? I wonder if the much revered Churchill were still alive and said Brexit (hard/soft/whatever) would cost a lot and be difficult would be be turned on too? " The difference is,people listened to what Churchill had to say, nobody listened to what John Major had to say, even when he was prime minister. ;-) | |||
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"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too?" You only need 1 day's paid service to meet the government's definition of a veteran. There will be at a few thousand of those under the age of 18. | |||
"What? No outraged thread(s) about John Major and his comments? Is that only reserved for for Labour leaders? I'll happily put John Major down but I've not seen the news. What has he said? Just had a look on the news and have seen it now. John Major just another butt hurt sore loser over Brexit. Yesterday's man just like Blair. Why do you think they are being encouraged to speak out? Both had a fair chunk of time in Number 10. They know how the world works. Aren't their views informed and considered? It's on BBC 2 Newsnight now about it. " Ian Duncan Smith was on Newsnight giving his reaction to John Major's speech, I think he hit the nail on the head when he said John Major sounds bitter. | |||
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"What? No outraged thread(s) about John Major and his comments? Is that only reserved for for Labour leaders? I'll happily put John Major down but I've not seen the news. What has he said? Just had a look on the news and have seen it now. John Major just another butt hurt sore loser over Brexit. Yesterday's man just like Blair. Why do you think they are being encouraged to speak out? Both had a fair chunk of time in Number 10. They know how the world works. Aren't their views informed and considered? " Was John Major's view informed and considered over the Maastricht treaty? Ian Duncan Smith was just on Newsnight and called Maastricht an unmitigated disaster. Was Blair's view on Iraq informed and considered? Iraq also turned out to be an unmitigated disaster. For 2 people who you say "know how the world works" they don't have very good track records. | |||
"What? No outraged thread(s) about John Major and his comments? Is that only reserved for for Labour leaders? I'll happily put John Major down but I've not seen the news. What has he said? Just had a look on the news and have seen it now. John Major just another butt hurt sore loser over Brexit. Yesterday's man just like Blair. Why do you think they are being encouraged to speak out? Both had a fair chunk of time in Number 10. They know how the world works. Aren't their views informed and considered? Was John Major's view informed and considered over the Maastricht treaty? Ian Duncan Smith was just on Newsnight and called Maastricht an unmitigated disaster. Was Blair's view on Iraq informed and considered? Iraq also turned out to be an unmitigated disaster. For 2 people who you say "know how the world works" they don't have very good track records. " And yet both were reelected. | |||
"We haven't heard from Gordon Brown on the issue (that I can recall) but all other living former Prime Ministers think that Brexit is a bad idea. But hey, what do they know huh? "Gordon Brown the man who in his infinite wisdom thought it best to sell our Gold at rock bottom prices, so yeah its right that his judgement is also put into question. | |||
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"John Major is another one talking sense. He is also a decent man for a Tory. That is why he single handedly won the 92 election despite being saddled with a party full of cunts. Anyone who knows anything about Europe know that Maastricht was not Majors failure, if failure it was, but an inevitability after Maggie agreed the Single European Act. Ian Duncan Smith is, on the other hand, a despicable human being, not to mention fucking useless. It's says quite a lot about you" As usual you are talking nonsense, the only reason John Major won was because he was up against a totally incompetent and clueless Neil Kinnock. | |||
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"No, they were massively behind in the polls. Major decided to travel around with his soap box and appeal to people to judge his character, which they did. They judged him as a decent bloke, in charge of a party of twats. " Such a decent bloke he cheated on his wife and had an affair with Edwina Curry.  | |||
"I really have to take issue with what John Major said when he said "Brexit will lead to a break down in trust between the public and politicians". To a large extent that has already happened, through the many stories about corrupt politicians, claiming wrongful and fraudulent expenses, doing corrupt deals with vested interests, etc. Plus if politicians fail to respect the Leave vote of the referendum and end up keeping Britain in the EU doesn't that undermine the public trust in politicians and politics even more? " If you are going to quote something please do so fully. What he said was that: "over-promising on Brexit will lead to a break down in trust between the public and politicians" That's something completely different to what you have decided he said don't you think? Even if you don't like someone at least listen. He also indicated that Leavers should not shut-down debate as remainers are not opposing the will of the people they are the people. You demonstrate the shutting down of debate in almost every post you write. Actually listening to contrary views is difficult as it makes you question your own. I am also well aware that you are absolutely certain that you are right so I don't actually expect you to do any such thing  | |||
"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too? I wonder if the much revered Churchill were still alive and said Brexit (hard/soft/whatever) would cost a lot and be difficult would be be turned on too? The difference is,people listened to what Churchill had to say, nobody listened to what John Major had to say, even when he was prime minister. ;-)" funny you should say that as Churchill was the first person to mention a united States of Europe ... | |||
"No, they were massively behind in the polls. Major decided to travel around with his soap box and appeal to people to judge his character, which they did. They judged him as a decent bloke, in charge of a party of twats. " I don't remember judging Major on his character, the only thing i remember about John Major is that he was grey and liked to eat peas. | |||
"No, they were massively behind in the polls. Major decided to travel around with his soap box and appeal to people to judge his character, which they did. They judged him as a decent bloke, in charge of a party of twats. I don't remember judging Major on his character, the only thing i remember about John Major is that he was grey and liked to eat peas." "The peas are good tonight dear" Was a good program  | |||
"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too? I wonder if the much revered Churchill were still alive and said Brexit (hard/soft/whatever) would cost a lot and be difficult would be be turned on too? The difference is,people listened to what Churchill had to say, nobody listened to what John Major had to say, even when he was prime minister. ;-) funny you should say that as Churchill was the first person to mention a united States of Europe ... " are you sure it wasn't Oswald Moseley? | |||
"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too? I wonder if the much revered Churchill were still alive and said Brexit (hard/soft/whatever) would cost a lot and be difficult would be be turned on too? The difference is,people listened to what Churchill had to say, nobody listened to what John Major had to say, even when he was prime minister. ;-) funny you should say that as Churchill was the first person to mention a united States of Europe ... " When was the first conference on a 'European Economic Community', and who held it? | |||
"What? No outraged thread(s) about John Major and his comments? Is that only reserved for for Labour leaders? I'll happily put John Major down but I've not seen the news. What has he said? Just had a look on the news and have seen it now. John Major just another butt hurt sore loser over Brexit. Yesterday's man just like Blair. Why do you think they are being encouraged to speak out? Both had a fair chunk of time in Number 10. They know how the world works. Aren't their views informed and considered? Was John Major's view informed and considered over the Maastricht treaty? Ian Duncan Smith was just on Newsnight and called Maastricht an unmitigated disaster. Was Blair's view on Iraq informed and considered? Iraq also turned out to be an unmitigated disaster. For 2 people who you say "know how the world works" they don't have very good track records. And yet both were reelected. " One 3 times.. | |||
"I really have to take issue with what John Major said when he said "Brexit will lead to a break down in trust between the public and politicians". To a large extent that has already happened, through the many stories about corrupt politicians, claiming wrongful and fraudulent expenses, doing corrupt deals with vested interests, etc. Plus if politicians fail to respect the Leave vote of the referendum and end up keeping Britain in the EU doesn't that undermine the public trust in politicians and politics even more? If you are going to quote something please do so fully. What he said was that: "over-promising on Brexit will lead to a break down in trust between the public and politicians" That's something completely different to what you have decided he said don't you think? Even if you don't like someone at least listen. He also indicated that Leavers should not shut-down debate as remainers are not opposing the will of the people they are the people. You demonstrate the shutting down of debate in almost every post you write. Actually listening to contrary views is difficult as it makes you question your own. I am also well aware that you are absolutely certain that you are right so I don't actually expect you to do any such thing "Centaur has a habit of cherry picking and embellishments.. Becoming par for the course and that's just negates any point made.. It's the new speak for some it appears.. | |||
"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too? I wonder if the much revered Churchill were still alive and said Brexit (hard/soft/whatever) would cost a lot and be difficult would be be turned on too? The difference is,people listened to what Churchill had to say, nobody listened to what John Major had to say, even when he was prime minister. ;-) funny you should say that as Churchill was the first person to mention a united States of Europe ... " Churchill also said given the choice between Europe and the open sea, Britain must always chose the open sea. | |||
"What? No outraged thread(s) about John Major and his comments? Is that only reserved for for Labour leaders? " There have been a few....but they finished a while back. Like everyone else, on both sides of the argument, he has his own agenda.....that of big business who benefit from the status quo. | |||
"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too? I wonder if the much revered Churchill were still alive and said Brexit (hard/soft/whatever) would cost a lot and be difficult would be be turned on too? The difference is,people listened to what Churchill had to say, nobody listened to what John Major had to say, even when he was prime minister. ;-) funny you should say that as Churchill was the first person to mention a united States of Europe ... Churchill also said given the choice between Europe and the open sea, Britain must always chose the open sea. " And thats your plan for post-Brexit Britain is it? Complete and total isolation? | |||
"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too? I wonder if the much revered Churchill were still alive and said Brexit (hard/soft/whatever) would cost a lot and be difficult would be be turned on too? The difference is,people listened to what Churchill had to say, nobody listened to what John Major had to say, even when he was prime minister. ;-) funny you should say that as Churchill was the first person to mention a united States of Europe ... Churchill also said given the choice between Europe and the open sea, Britain must always chose the open sea. And thats your plan for post-Brexit Britain is it? Complete and total isolation?" No it's a metaphor for going out and embracing the rest of the world not the isolationist and protectionist EU. | |||
"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too?" They are has beens if they have pro remain opinions, apparently 
Just like the 'liberal elite' is awful, but billionaire Trump is great. | |||
"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too? They are has beens if they have pro remain opinions, apparently
Just like the 'liberal elite' is awful, but billionaire Trump is great. "Trump is not a has been though is he, he is the current President. | |||
"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too? I wonder if the much revered Churchill were still alive and said Brexit (hard/soft/whatever) would cost a lot and be difficult would be be turned on too? The difference is,people listened to what Churchill had to say, nobody listened to what John Major had to say, even when he was prime minister. ;-) funny you should say that as Churchill was the first person to mention a united States of Europe ... Churchill also said given the choice between Europe and the open sea, Britain must always chose the open sea. " That quote does not really support Brexit. https://neweuropeans.net/article/604/revealing-deception-about-winston-churchill | |||
"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too? I wonder if the much revered Churchill were still alive and said Brexit (hard/soft/whatever) would cost a lot and be difficult would be be turned on too? The difference is,people listened to what Churchill had to say, nobody listened to what John Major had to say, even when he was prime minister. ;-) funny you should say that as Churchill was the first person to mention a united States of Europe ... are you sure it wasn't Oswald Moseley?" Churchill said in 1946 after Ww2 in his speech | |||
"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too? I wonder if the much revered Churchill were still alive and said Brexit (hard/soft/whatever) would cost a lot and be difficult would be be turned on too? The difference is,people listened to what Churchill had to say, nobody listened to what John Major had to say, even when he was prime minister. ;-) funny you should say that as Churchill was the first person to mention a united States of Europe ... Churchill also said given the choice between Europe and the open sea, Britain must always chose the open sea. That quote does not really support Brexit. https://neweuropeans.net/article/604/revealing-deception-about-winston-churchill " Churchill made other comments about distancing Britain from Europe. I think Churchill would have preferred closer links and ties to the commonwealth than the EU but that is my personal view. Neither Remain or Leave can claim Churchill would have supported their side, we will never know. | |||
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"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too? I wonder if the much revered Churchill were still alive and said Brexit (hard/soft/whatever) would cost a lot and be difficult would be be turned on too? The difference is,people listened to what Churchill had to say, nobody listened to what John Major had to say, even when he was prime minister. ;-) funny you should say that as Churchill was the first person to mention a united States of Europe ... Churchill also said given the choice between Europe and the open sea, Britain must always chose the open sea. And thats your plan for post-Brexit Britain is it? Complete and total isolation? No it's a metaphor for going out and embracing the rest of the world not the isolationist and protectionist EU. " .. | |||
"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too? I wonder if the much revered Churchill were still alive and said Brexit (hard/soft/whatever) would cost a lot and be difficult would be be turned on too? The difference is,people listened to what Churchill had to say, nobody listened to what John Major had to say, even when he was prime minister. ;-) funny you should say that as Churchill was the first person to mention a united States of Europe ... Churchill also said given the choice between Europe and the open sea, Britain must always chose the open sea. And thats your plan for post-Brexit Britain is it? Complete and total isolation? No it's a metaphor for going out and embracing the rest of the world not the isolationist and protectionist EU. " Wouldn't you agree that Trump is also isolationist and protectionist, yet you support him. | |||
"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too? I wonder if the much revered Churchill were still alive and said Brexit (hard/soft/whatever) would cost a lot and be difficult would be be turned on too? The difference is,people listened to what Churchill had to say, nobody listened to what John Major had to say, even when he was prime minister. ;-) funny you should say that as Churchill was the first person to mention a united States of Europe ... Churchill also said given the choice between Europe and the open sea, Britain must always chose the open sea. And thats your plan for post-Brexit Britain is it? Complete and total isolation? No it's a metaphor for going out and embracing the rest of the world not the isolationist and protectionist EU. Wouldn't you agree that Trump is also isolationist and protectionist, yet you support him. " Trump is for sure the epitome of this. Bigger army, tougher borders, higher walls. Isolationist and protectionist. Strangely I think OVERALL the EU was neither. You could join (if criteria passed) it encouraged free movement and trade. But meh, Centour is the most pro Brexit/trump/farage forum user I've come across. | |||
"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too? I wonder if the much revered Churchill were still alive and said Brexit (hard/soft/whatever) would cost a lot and be difficult would be be turned on too? The difference is,people listened to what Churchill had to say, nobody listened to what John Major had to say, even when he was prime minister. ;-) funny you should say that as Churchill was the first person to mention a united States of Europe ... are you sure it wasn't Oswald Moseley? Churchill said in 1946 after Ww2 in his speech " maybe he was first then but Moseley started to develop his idea of a United Europe on his release from prison in 1943 | |||
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"I agree with some of the posters above its confusing some of the leavers on here who call the EU protectionist are the same people who support trump who is clearly protectionist.....they believe that walking away from the EU will lead to a great trade deal for the UK with the US despite the same trump who they support is saying over and over America first!" and the ones who support the protectionist EU don't like Trumps ideas. Strange eh | |||
"I agree with some of the posters above its confusing some of the leavers on here who call the EU protectionist are the same people who support trump who is clearly protectionist.....they believe that walking away from the EU will lead to a great trade deal for the UK with the US despite the same trump who they support is saying over and over America first! and the ones who support the protectionist EU don't like Trumps ideas. Strange eh" do you honestly think that the UK could get a better trade deal with the US thamarket it has now with the EU? | |||
"I agree with some of the posters above its confusing some of the leavers on here who call the EU protectionist are the same people who support trump who is clearly protectionist.....they believe that walking away from the EU will lead to a great trade deal for the UK with the US despite the same trump who they support is saying over and over America first! and the ones who support the protectionist EU don't like Trumps ideas. Strange eh do you honestly think that the UK could get a better trade deal with the US thamarket it has now with the EU?" no. But I think it can get a better deal with the US than the one it has now and the same for any other country in the world | |||
"I agree with some of the posters above its confusing some of the leavers on here who call the EU protectionist are the same people who support trump who is clearly protectionist.....they believe that walking away from the EU will lead to a great trade deal for the UK with the US despite the same trump who they support is saying over and over America first! and the ones who support the protectionist EU don't like Trumps ideas. Strange eh do you honestly think that the UK could get a better trade deal with the US thamarket it has now with the EU? no. But I think it can get a better deal with the US than the one it has now and the same for any other country in the world" probably so if Trump turns around a say no trade deal unless there's free movement of labour from America do you think May should accept that? | |||
"Why is he a has been? I hear this from youths generally about older generations. Are veterans has beens too? I wonder if the much revered Churchill were still alive and said Brexit (hard/soft/whatever) would cost a lot and be difficult would be be turned on too? The difference is,people listened to what Churchill had to say, nobody listened to what John Major had to say, even when he was prime minister. ;-) funny you should say that as Churchill was the first person to mention a united States of Europe ... are you sure it wasn't Oswald Moseley? Churchill said in 1946 after Ww2 in his speech " Again I ask, when was the first conference on a 'European Economic Community' first held, who came up with the idea, and who held it? | |||
"I agree with some of the posters above its confusing some of the leavers on here who call the EU protectionist are the same people who support trump who is clearly protectionist.....they believe that walking away from the EU will lead to a great trade deal for the UK with the US despite the same trump who they support is saying over and over America first! and the ones who support the protectionist EU don't like Trumps ideas. Strange eh do you honestly think that the UK could get a better trade deal with the US thamarket it has now with the EU? no. But I think it can get a better deal with the US than the one it has now and the same for any other country in the world probably so if Trump turns around a say no trade deal unless there's free movement of labour from America do you think May should accept that?" no, we carry on as we are then. How does the US sell more to the EU than we do? | |||
"I agree with some of the posters above its confusing some of the leavers on here who call the EU protectionist are the same people who support trump who is clearly protectionist.....they believe that walking away from the EU will lead to a great trade deal for the UK with the US despite the same trump who they support is saying over and over America first! and the ones who support the protectionist EU don't like Trumps ideas. Strange eh do you honestly think that the UK could get a better trade deal with the US thamarket it has now with the EU? no. But I think it can get a better deal with the US than the one it has now and the same for any other country in the world probably so if Trump turns around a say no trade deal unless there's free movement of labour from America do you think May should accept that? no, we carry on as we are then. How does the US sell more to the EU than we do?" well it's simple you can't compare the us and the UK they are bigger and more powerful in every way with or without a trade between the us and the EU the share size of the us will ensure that they can export more and if needed import more | |||
" Again I ask, when was the first conference on a 'European Economic Community' first held, who came up with the idea, and who held it?" Are you referring to Churchill's call, in 1946, for a United States of Europe, which he thought should begin with a Council Of Europe as a first step? He then chaired the Congress of Europe in 1948 at the Hague and this then led to the establishment of the Council of Europe with the Treaty of London in 1949 signed by Belgium, Denmark, France, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden and United Kingdom. Is that what you mean? Yeah, Churchill was really anti the idea of a EU. | |||
" Again I ask, when was the first conference on a 'European Economic Community' first held, who came up with the idea, and who held it? Are you referring to Churchill's call, in 1946, for a United States of Europe, which he thought should begin with a Council Of Europe as a first step? He then chaired the Congress of Europe in 1948 at the Hague and this then led to the establishment of the Council of Europe with the Treaty of London in 1949 signed by Belgium, Denmark, France, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden and United Kingdom. Is that what you mean? Yeah, Churchill was really anti the idea of a EU. "No. I'm not. It was a few years before then. | |||
"I agree with some of the posters above its confusing some of the leavers on here who call the EU protectionist are the same people who support trump who is clearly protectionist.....they believe that walking away from the EU will lead to a great trade deal for the UK with the US despite the same trump who they support is saying over and over America first! and the ones who support the protectionist EU don't like Trumps ideas. Strange eh" So, if I understand it correctly, you are describing a comprehensive free trade area of 27 countries protectionist? I'm sorry I took so long to get there. I just wasn't following  | |||
" Again I ask, when was the first conference on a 'European Economic Community' first held, who came up with the idea, and who held it? Are you referring to Churchill's call, in 1946, for a United States of Europe, which he thought should begin with a Council Of Europe as a first step? He then chaired the Congress of Europe in 1948 at the Hague and this then led to the establishment of the Council of Europe with the Treaty of London in 1949 signed by Belgium, Denmark, France, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden and United Kingdom. Is that what you mean? Yeah, Churchill was really anti the idea of a EU.
No. I'm not. It was a few years before then."Oh how lovely. You want to associate the EU with Hitler 
Fascism = EU
Try harder | |||
" Again I ask, when was the first conference on a 'European Economic Community' first held, who came up with the idea, and who held it? Are you referring to Churchill's call, in 1946, for a United States of Europe, which he thought should begin with a Council Of Europe as a first step? He then chaired the Congress of Europe in 1948 at the Hague and this then led to the establishment of the Council of Europe with the Treaty of London in 1949 signed by Belgium, Denmark, France, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden and United Kingdom. Is that what you mean? Yeah, Churchill was really anti the idea of a EU.
No. I'm not. It was a few years before then.
Oh how lovely. You want to associate the EU with Hitler
Fascism = EU
Try harder "I'm going to indulge you though from our chums at Wikipedia: "The first proposal for peacefully unifying Europe against a common enemy emerged after the Fall of Constantinople to the Turks in 1453. George of Podebrady, a Hussite king of Bohemia, proposed in 1464 a union of European, Christian nations against the Turks.[1] However, his proposal was based on the nations' shared religious ideology, and there is no evidence that he viewed their common geographic location as particularly significant.[citation needed] The Frankish Empire of Charlemagne and the Holy Roman Empire united large areas of Germany, Italy, and France under a loose administration for hundreds of years without articulating an idea of European unity. However, the concept of a Europe made up of those parts of the continent occupied by Germanic peoples had become common by the 19th century, as is evidenced in Russian philosopher Danilevsky's Russia and Europe. The idea of Germany and Europe being coterminous was taken to its fateful conclusion by Adolf Hitler." | |||
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" Again I ask, when was the first conference on a 'European Economic Community' first held, who came up with the idea, and who held it? Are you referring to Churchill's call, in 1946, for a United States of Europe, which he thought should begin with a Council Of Europe as a first step? He then chaired the Congress of Europe in 1948 at the Hague and this then led to the establishment of the Council of Europe with the Treaty of London in 1949 signed by Belgium, Denmark, France, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden and United Kingdom. Is that what you mean? Yeah, Churchill was really anti the idea of a EU.
No. I'm not. It was a few years before then.
Oh how lovely. You want to associate the EU with Hitler
Fascism = EU
Try harder
I'm going to indulge you though from our chums at Wikipedia:
"The first proposal for peacefully unifying Europe against a common enemy emerged after the Fall of Constantinople to the Turks in 1453. George of Podebrady, a Hussite king of Bohemia, proposed in 1464 a union of European, Christian nations against the Turks.[1] However, his proposal was based on the nations' shared religious ideology, and there is no evidence that he viewed their common geographic location as particularly significant.[citation needed]
The Frankish Empire of Charlemagne and the Holy Roman Empire united large areas of Germany, Italy, and France under a loose administration for hundreds of years without articulating an idea of European unity. However, the concept of a Europe made up of those parts of the continent occupied by Germanic peoples had become common by the 19th century, as is evidenced in Russian philosopher Danilevsky's Russia and Europe. The idea of Germany and Europe being coterminous was taken to its fateful conclusion by Adolf Hitler.""Thanks for the indulgence... I know all of the above. The question I actually asked was When was the first conference on a 'European Economic Community' first held, who came up with the idea, and who held it? So, who was first to use the term, and what were the key points of their idea? But while on the subject of a 'United States of Europe', you all quote Churchill as though he were the first to come up with the term. He wasn't. | |||
" Again I ask, when was the first conference on a 'European Economic Community' first held, who came up with the idea, and who held it? Are you referring to Churchill's call, in 1946, for a United States of Europe, which he thought should begin with a Council Of Europe as a first step? He then chaired the Congress of Europe in 1948 at the Hague and this then led to the establishment of the Council of Europe with the Treaty of London in 1949 signed by Belgium, Denmark, France, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden and United Kingdom. Is that what you mean? Yeah, Churchill was really anti the idea of a EU.
No. I'm not. It was a few years before then.
Oh how lovely. You want to associate the EU with Hitler
Fascism = EU
Try harder
I'm going to indulge you though from our chums at Wikipedia:
"The first proposal for peacefully unifying Europe against a common enemy emerged after the Fall of Constantinople to the Turks in 1453. George of Podebrady, a Hussite king of Bohemia, proposed in 1464 a union of European, Christian nations against the Turks.[1] However, his proposal was based on the nations' shared religious ideology, and there is no evidence that he viewed their common geographic location as particularly significant.[citation needed]
The Frankish Empire of Charlemagne and the Holy Roman Empire united large areas of Germany, Italy, and France under a loose administration for hundreds of years without articulating an idea of European unity. However, the concept of a Europe made up of those parts of the continent occupied by Germanic peoples had become common by the 19th century, as is evidenced in Russian philosopher Danilevsky's Russia and Europe. The idea of Germany and Europe being coterminous was taken to its fateful conclusion by Adolf Hitler."
Thanks for the indulgence... I know all of the above. The question I actually asked was
When was the first conference on a 'European Economic Community' first held, who came up with the idea, and who held it?
So, who was first to use the term, and what were the key points of their idea?
But while on the subject of a 'United States of Europe', you all quote Churchill as though he were the first to come up with the term. He wasn't.
"Wouldn't it be easier and quicker for you to just educate us and tell us? | |||
"I agree with some of the posters above its confusing some of the leavers on here who call the EU protectionist are the same people who support trump who is clearly protectionist.....they believe that walking away from the EU will lead to a great trade deal for the UK with the US despite the same trump who they support is saying over and over America first! and the ones who support the protectionist EU don't like Trumps ideas. Strange eh So, if I understand it correctly, you are describing a comprehensive free trade area of 27 countries protectionist? I'm sorry I took so long to get there. I just wasn't following "if it isn't protectionist why are you worried about leaving? And yes a trade area of 27 countries whose economic output after all these years and 150 million more people than the US is still only slightly higher than the US. Brilliant | |||
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" Thanks for the indulgence... I know all of the above. The question I actually asked was When was the first conference on a 'European Economic Community' first held, who came up with the idea, and who held it? So, who was first to use the term, and what were the key points of their idea? But while on the subject of a 'United States of Europe', you all quote Churchill as though he were the first to come up with the term. He wasn't. " Why does it matter who first used a term? If Stalin had first used the term "be nice to your mum" would that mean that you shouldn't
Enjoy your quiz | |||
" if it isn't protectionist why are you worried about leaving? And yes a trade area of 27 countries whose economic output after all these years and 150 million more people than the US is still only slightly higher than the US. Brilliant" I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about? Your second statement requires so much explanation of basic economics, politics and history that there really isn't the time especially as you will insist that you know everything that you need to know. So, how about a more simple comparison for you and any of your Leave chums to ponder. Would the world and the USA and its people be better off if it split into its individual States which became fully independent nations? | |||
" if it isn't protectionist why are you worried about leaving? And yes a trade area of 27 countries whose economic output after all these years and 150 million more people than the US is still only slightly higher than the US. Brilliant I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about? Your second statement requires so much explanation of basic economics, politics and history that there really isn't the time especially as you will insist that you know everything that you need to know. So, how about a more simple comparison for you and any of your Leave chums to ponder. Would the world and the USA and its people be better off if it split into its individual States which became fully independent nations?" so the UK is not an individual state? | |||
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"Downing street has basically told John Major to go and do one and that we are leaving. His sucking of sour grapes in public is not helping to unite the country, his interjection was really just a rehashing of old Project fear arguments that were had during the referendum campaign. The referendum is over and the people made a decision to Leave. An ICM poll found 64% just want to get on with Brexit now. John Major is on the wrong side of the argument. " Wow. He didn't actually say that Brexit shouldn't happen. He suggested that Leavers listen. Downing Street tells us that the NHS, social care, the prison service and education, amongst other things, are fine. You choose to listen to "your" politicians although all others are liars and fearmongers. You don't believe polls. | |||
" if it isn't protectionist why are you worried about leaving? And yes a trade area of 27 countries whose economic output after all these years and 150 million more people than the US is still only slightly higher than the US. Brilliant I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about? Your second statement requires so much explanation of basic economics, politics and history that there really isn't the time especially as you will insist that you know everything that you need to know. So, how about a more simple comparison for you and any of your Leave chums to ponder. Would the world and the USA and its people be better off if it split into its individual States which became fully independent nations? so the UK is not an individual state?" ...or respond to the question which draws a very simple parallel between the EU and the USA for you to think about. Again, what are you suddenly asking about the UK being individual for? | |||
"But while on the subject of a 'United States of Europe', you all quote Churchill as though he were the first to come up with the term. He wasn't" IPC Paris 1849 | |||
"Downing street has basically told John Major to go and do one and that we are leaving. His sucking of sour grapes in public is not helping to unite the country, his interjection was really just a rehashing of old Project fear arguments that were had during the referendum campaign. The referendum is over and the people made a decision to Leave. An ICM poll found 64% just want to get on with Brexit now. John Major is on the wrong side of the argument. " Actually, wouldn't it be simpler just to post the links to the Downing Street press releases and right wing "news" sites? It would save both you and us the time  | |||
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"Downing street has basically told John Major to go and do one and that we are leaving. His sucking of sour grapes in public is not helping to unite the country, his interjection was really just a rehashing of old Project fear arguments that were had during the referendum campaign. The referendum is over and the people made a decision to Leave. An ICM poll found 64% just want to get on with Brexit now. John Major is on the wrong side of the argument. " On such an issue which has not even started to be addressed in the absolute myriad and complex negotiations that will be required to make it work there's no right side of the argument.. To suggest that there is only right and wrong because you don't like what others are saying about what has been said and what is to come which no one knows is naive in the extreme.. Unite the country? What the actual fuck does that mean when the reality is a possible splitting of the union and any benefits will be as usual not spread across the country and the different classes within our society.. We've had the decision and we all hope it works for the benefit of our kids kids etc but your using lie rhetoric of shut up we are going to build this bridge in this country and you saying but what about the monsoon season which brings historical floods and disruption is not uniting the project.. We still Centaur live in a democratic country and part of that is accepting others have opposing opinion's.. Not shouting then down because you disagree or are worried that they may present a balanced view which upsets your idea of nirvana.. 1984 it is not and never will be.. | |||
" if it isn't protectionist why are you worried about leaving? And yes a trade area of 27 countries whose economic output after all these years and 150 million more people than the US is still only slightly higher than the US. Brilliant I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about? Your second statement requires so much explanation of basic economics, politics and history that there really isn't the time especially as you will insist that you know everything that you need to know. So, how about a more simple comparison for you and any of your Leave chums to ponder. Would the world and the USA and its people be better off if it split into its individual States which became fully independent nations? so the UK is not an individual state? ...or respond to the question which draws a very simple parallel between the EU and the USA for you to think about. Again, what are you suddenly asking about the UK being individual for?" what are you suddenly asking if the US should be split into seperate states for? Do you not know the difference between the EU and the US? | |||
" if it isn't protectionist why are you worried about leaving? And yes a trade area of 27 countries whose economic output after all these years and 150 million more people than the US is still only slightly higher than the US. Brilliant I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about? Your second statement requires so much explanation of basic economics, politics and history that there really isn't the time especially as you will insist that you know everything that you need to know. So, how about a more simple comparison for you and any of your Leave chums to ponder. Would the world and the USA and its people be better off if it split into its individual States which became fully independent nations? so the UK is not an individual state? ...or respond to the question which draws a very simple parallel between the EU and the USA for you to think about. Again, what are you suddenly asking about the UK being individual for? what are you suddenly asking if the US should be split into seperate states for? Do you not know the difference between the EU and the US?" I'm afraid that I can't hold your hand and walk you through every discussion. Perhaps someone else can help you figure it out? Too boring for me now. Sorry | |||
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" if it isn't protectionist why are you worried about leaving? And yes a trade area of 27 countries whose economic output after all these years and 150 million more people than the US is still only slightly higher than the US. Brilliant I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about? Your second statement requires so much explanation of basic economics, politics and history that there really isn't the time especially as you will insist that you know everything that you need to know. So, how about a more simple comparison for you and any of your Leave chums to ponder. Would the world and the USA and its people be better off if it split into its individual States which became fully independent nations? so the UK is not an individual state? ...or respond to the question which draws a very simple parallel between the EU and the USA for you to think about. Again, what are you suddenly asking about the UK being individual for? what are you suddenly asking if the US should be split into seperate states for? Do you not know the difference between the EU and the US? I'm afraid that I can't hold your hand and walk you through every discussion. Perhaps someone else can help you figure it out? Too boring for me now. Sorry "well it would help if you're questions were ever relevant or ever made any sense. Ponder that | |||
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"I find this situation strange. Anyone who questions any part of brexit or the gung-ho everything will be great, were going to give all them european jonny foreigners a kicking if they dont give us everything we want and just the way we want it, attitude of the brexiteers is somehow a traitor and needs to be silenced. If everything is really so great why are you still trying to sell it to those who dont believe your spiel? Could it be that your really trying to convince yourselves?" And I have only seen one Leaver brave enough to say that they are a little pissed off and that's because its been 9 months and nothing has happened yet. | |||
"I find this situation strange. Anyone who questions any part of brexit or the gung-ho everything will be great, were going to give all them european jonny foreigners a kicking if they dont give us everything we want and just the way we want it, attitude of the brexiteers is somehow a traitor and needs to be silenced. If everything is really so great why are you still trying to sell it to those who dont believe your spiel? Could it be that your really trying to convince yourselves?" why do you keep calling people from Europe Johnny foreigner? We are not trying to sell anything. Why do you not accept that things could and probably will be better out of the EU? | |||
"I find this situation strange. Anyone who questions any part of brexit or the gung-ho everything will be great, were going to give all them european jonny foreigners a kicking if they dont give us everything we want and just the way we want it, attitude of the brexiteers is somehow a traitor and needs to be silenced. If everything is really so great why are you still trying to sell it to those who dont believe your spiel? Could it be that your really trying to convince yourselves?" To be fair, I'm still trying to persuade people that they should at least question the relentlessly positive, sunlit vision of Brexit and accept that the downside could be significant. Yes I do see potential positives in leaving the EU, but the bias is far more emotional than practical. I still do not know what Brexit means. May's aspirations are nothing more and I have no intention of believing a politician's promises will be kept. I have still not seen anything to indicate that economic upsides, even in the best case, will make up for the loss except in a far distant future. I am also trying to persuade Leavers to have the courtesy to acknowledge that 48% of the population disagree with them, have a right to disagree, have a right to voice that disagreement and have a right to try and modify the final agreement to a form that also addresses their requirements. I'm also trying to persuade Leavers to concede the possibility that not all of those that voted to leave voted for a hard Brexit. That would be a start. This is the summary of JMs speech I think. | |||
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" if it isn't protectionist why are you worried about leaving? And yes a trade area of 27 countries whose economic output after all these years and 150 million more people than the US is still only slightly higher than the US. Brilliant I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about? Your second statement requires so much explanation of basic economics, politics and history that there really isn't the time especially as you will insist that you know everything that you need to know. So, how about a more simple comparison for you and any of your Leave chums to ponder. Would the world and the USA and its people be better off if it split into its individual States which became fully independent nations? so the UK is not an individual state? ...or respond to the question which draws a very simple parallel between the EU and the USA for you to think about. Again, what are you suddenly asking about the UK being individual for? what are you suddenly asking if the US should be split into seperate states for? Do you not know the difference between the EU and the US? I'm afraid that I can't hold your hand and walk you through every discussion. Perhaps someone else can help you figure it out? Too boring for me now. Sorry
well it would help if you're questions were ever relevant or ever made any sense. Ponder that"You know what? You always seem a little bewildered when we get into these discussions so I shouldn't be so impatient. It's unkind. So I will walk you through this. You wanted to compare the economic performance of the USA as a unified country since 1776 and the performance of the EU over the last 40 years. Exactly why such a huge, resource rich nation that has suffered only one military conflict within it's own borders should have done so well over the last several hundred years is, of course, very mysterious. It is difficult to clearly analyse why hundreds of small, warring, competing nations pursuing their own small-scale goals and a plethora of different languages should not have achieved quite the same level of success over the same period. It is also a mystery why after the continent was flattened in 1945 anyone would think it an achievement that an organisation has brought these countries together and generated the world's second biggest economy. You stated very clearly that the USA has achieved more. So this provides two options for consideration. 1. How the USA would have faired over the same time period if each of the States in the USA was an individual nation. Also competing. Also warring. 2. How would Europe have faired if it remained atomised since 1945 You have made it clear that Europe taking the successful US approach is not acceptable as you voted against it. Hopefully you do now understand. I do not expect a direct response because you would have to critically analyse your opinions. I have tried though  | |||
"I find this situation strange. Anyone who questions any part of brexit or the gung-ho everything will be great, were going to give all them european jonny foreigners a kicking if they dont give us everything we want and just the way we want it, attitude of the brexiteers is somehow a traitor and needs to be silenced. If everything is really so great why are you still trying to sell it to those who dont believe your spiel? Could it be that your really trying to convince yourselves?" Just as John Major has a right to voice his opinion, (same as Blair), these people also need to realise that the public also have the right to dismiss what they say, and that is being reflected in the polls, as I said 64% just want to get on with Brexit now. There really is no point in re hashing old arguments that were made during the referendum campaign, as William Hague said in his speech in the Lords, "the country can't keep going round in circles". The decision was made to Leave and that is what the country is going to do now. Teresa May has a tough negotiation ahead and people like Blair and Major sniping from the sidelines just makes them look bitter now. | |||
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"John Major, the man who thought it would be a good idea to break up the unified rail network and sell it off piecemeal. Despite all expert advice warning against it. Not even Thatcher ventured down that route. Yes, that definitely worked out well. We should listen to that numpty's opinions?" People make mistakes. Big ones. They also make good decisions. I have done both. Have you? Has May? | |||
"I find this situation strange. Anyone who questions any part of brexit or the gung-ho everything will be great, were going to give all them european jonny foreigners a kicking if they dont give us everything we want and just the way we want it, attitude of the brexiteers is somehow a traitor and needs to be silenced. If everything is really so great why are you still trying to sell it to those who dont believe your spiel? Could it be that your really trying to convince yourselves? Just as John Major has a right to voice his opinion, (same as Blair), these people also need to realise that the public also have the right to dismiss what they say, and that is being reflected in the polls, as I said 64% just want to get on with Brexit now. There really is no point in re hashing old arguments that were made during the referendum campaign, as William Hague said in his speech in the Lords, "the country can't keep going round in circles". The decision was made to Leave and that is what the country is going to do now. Teresa May has a tough negotiation ahead and people like Blair and Major sniping from the sidelines just makes them look bitter now. " The actual data from the November poll is here: https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/11/17/brexit-briefing/ Getting on with Brexit DOES NOT SPECIFY THE DEFINITION. Just repeating a thing ad nauseam doesn't give it any more meaning. Why is you repeating something that one politician says any more valid that what somebody else does? YES WE ARE LEAVING. WE KNOW!. There is no reason to repeat that either. May has not proven herself as a negotiator. Funnily enough, Major has. An assertion is not a truth. Brexiteers won yet manage to sound more bitter and angry than anyone else | |||
" if it isn't protectionist why are you worried about leaving? And yes a trade area of 27 countries whose economic output after all these years and 150 million more people than the US is still only slightly higher than the US. Brilliant I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about? Your second statement requires so much explanation of basic economics, politics and history that there really isn't the time especially as you will insist that you know everything that you need to know. So, how about a more simple comparison for you and any of your Leave chums to ponder. Would the world and the USA and its people be better off if it split into its individual States which became fully independent nations? so the UK is not an individual state?" Not yet apparently? | |||
