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By *ercury OP Man
over a year ago
Grantham |
Much has been made over the last week of the Labour Party's poor showing in the two by-elections.
So, in a question aimed largely at the Left leaning posters on this forum:-
How Is The Labour Party Going To Re-Connect With The British Public?
Some views from the other side of the fence. Over the last few months, there has been a trend to call anyone and anything from right of centre as being bad and wrong. Well, that's maybe fine but where are the policies and the positions from the left? If name calling is all you've got, then you have no hope. As the "best leader that the Labour Party never had" David Milliband recently said, Labour is as far from Goverment as he's seen.
We are seeing Corbynistas such as Thornberry, Abbot and Chakribarti, who are plainly out of their depth. They are not believed because they are just not being listened to. Where are the MPs that the centre ground can relate to? Frank Field, Margaret Hodge, Iain Wright...the sort of people that can pull the Labour Party back round again.
I see no reason why this debate needs to be hijacked by Brexit or Trump, just good old fashioned british politics. And remember, extremism exists on both sides, left or right, its just that, extremism.
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I really don't know where to start on this issue.
the funny thing is every time there is a blind poll where the public are asked what policies they support, they overwhelmingly choose JC's and Labour policies and reject Tory policies. This is across the country, even in the most staunchly conservative areas. But then as soon as they are told that they have picked JC's Labour policies and rejected the Tory policies they reverse their positions because JC is some sort of wishy washy leftie commie and the Tories are the real party of the people.
So I would suggest the problem is not so much one of connecting with the people, but more of how do your reverse 35 years of conditioning by the ultra right wing foreign billionaires who have been allowed take control of our press and turn it into a brainwashing machine for the far right? |
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By *ercury OP Man
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Labour has really got itself in a bind, and I don't know how it's going to get its self out of it."
They now have another By Election to go at, in an.ultra safe seat, Manchester Gorton.
Thing is, if they hold on to that seat, will the leadership believe that they are on the right track and everything is hunky dory? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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People like a "strong" leader
.
Ed Miliband was a wimp in charge, if Labour want to win votes they need a leader with strength & determination, that includes Scotland
Kezia Dugdale and Corbyn are just as pathetic
.
get a Labour leader with strength & values and an outer image of Vladimir Putin and you will have a labour leader who will win votes
.
only wimps welcome a 2nd prize |
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"They now have another By Election to go at, in an.ultra safe seat, Manchester Gorton.
Thing is, if they hold on to that seat, will the leadership believe that they are on the right track and everything is hunky dory?"
Again, I think you ask the wrong question. Rather than the question being about if Labour win or loose, or by how much. Surely the question that all politicians should be asking is: What do we do if the turnout is as low as Copeland or heaven forbid Stoke? |
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By *ercury OP Man
over a year ago
Grantham |
"They now have another By Election to go at, in an.ultra safe seat, Manchester Gorton.
Thing is, if they hold on to that seat, will the leadership believe that they are on the right track and everything is hunky dory?
Again, I think you ask the wrong question. Rather than the question being about if Labour win or loose, or by how much. Surely the question that all politicians should be asking is: What do we do if the turnout is as low as Copeland or heaven forbid Stoke? "
True but few commentators are worried about the turnout, just the result.
Voter apathy is always there mid-term. However the Right can galvanise more resources, not that they'll be there in this By Election. |
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By *anbrCouple
over a year ago
Edinburgh |
I myself cannot understand the negativity around Corbyn. Membership of the party is greater than the other parties added together. He seems to be inspiring more youths to become politically active and this through a desire to see a return to more traditional socialist values. Blair made the party turn into the Tories "light" so it would seem that there is a desire within the populous to offer a proper alternative. |
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"I myself cannot understand the negativity around Corbyn. Membership of the party is greater than the other parties added together. He seems to be inspiring more youths to become politically active and this through a desire to see a return to more traditional socialist values. Blair made the party turn into the Tories "light" so it would seem that there is a desire within the populous to offer a proper alternative. "
It is simple, JC would return us to a mixed economy returning vital infrastructure, government and NHS services to public ownership and would reverse much of the taxation and deregulation policy of the last 35 years. This is not in the interests of the multinationals and their executives that have grown fat at the expense of the British people so they have had the Blairites they own attacking JC from within the PLP and the media they control attacking from the outside, and most of the general public swallow it all.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I myself cannot understand the negativity around Corbyn. Membership of the party is greater than the other parties added together. He seems to be inspiring more youths to become politically active and this through a desire to see a return to more traditional socialist values. Blair made the party turn into the Tories "light" so it would seem that there is a desire within the populous to offer a proper alternative. "
I was behind JC for the most part. I felt he had something different about him and was pushing for things I felt I agreed with. Then he messed up. The referendum result gave you 16million people who voted remain and are now, in essence, without a party to stand for them. It felt like he rolled over and joined the Brexit means Brexit brigade and that really disappointed me. I never thought I'd see the day that the MP that speaks with views most similar to my own would be Nick Clegg. JC had the chance to win over a large amount of people and I think he failed when he pushed for A50 |
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By *ercury OP Man
over a year ago
Grantham |
"I myself cannot understand the negativity around Corbyn. Membership of the party is greater than the other parties added together. He seems to be inspiring more youths to become politically active and this through a desire to see a return to more traditional socialist values. Blair made the party turn into the Tories "light" so it would seem that there is a desire within the populous to offer a proper alternative.
It is simple, JC would return us to a mixed economy returning vital infrastructure, government and NHS services to public ownership and would reverse much of the taxation and deregulation policy of the last 35 years. This is not in the interests of the multinationals and their executives that have grown fat at the expense of the British people so they have had the Blairites they own attacking JC from within the PLP and the media they control attacking from the outside, and most of the general public swallow it all. "
So would JC fight a General Election on that type of platform?
Didn't they try that in 1983?
If they have such a huge membership, then why aren't they coming out to vote? Are these true Labour supporters, or people just seeing it to be "on trend" to be a member? |
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"Didn't they try that in 1983?
If they have such a huge membership, then why aren't they coming out to vote? Are these true Labour supporters, or people just seeing it to be "on trend" to be a member?"
Now there you go believing the propaganda.
Labour did not loose the 83 election on policy.
Thatcher won it by engineering and then taking the country into a wholly unnecessary war then wrapping herself in the flag and riding a tide of jingoistic national pride at how we 'beat the argies' back into a second term in power! Remember that prior to the Falkland's war Thatcher and the Tories were the most hated government in modern times. |
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By *ercury OP Man
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Didn't they try that in 1983?
If they have such a huge membership, then why aren't they coming out to vote? Are these true Labour supporters, or people just seeing it to be "on trend" to be a member?
Now there you go believing the propaganda.
Labour did not loose the 83 election on policy.
Thatcher won it by engineering and then taking the country into a wholly unnecessary war then wrapping herself in the flag and riding a tide of jingoistic national pride at how we 'beat the argies' back into a second term in power! Remember that prior to the Falkland's war Thatcher and the Tories were the most hated government in modern times. "
Well, that's one take on it.
Remember Winston Churchill won a World War, yet didn't get to win the 1945 General Election.
Gerald Kaufman, a very fine Labour MP, described the 1983 ultra socialist manifesto as the "longest suicide note in history". Will history repeat itself? |
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"Didn't they try that in 1983?
If they have such a huge membership, then why aren't they coming out to vote? Are these true Labour supporters, or people just seeing it to be "on trend" to be a member?
Now there you go believing the propaganda.
Labour did not loose the 83 election on policy.
Thatcher won it by engineering and then taking the country into a wholly unnecessary war then wrapping herself in the flag and riding a tide of jingoistic national pride at how we 'beat the argies' back into a second term in power! Remember that prior to the Falkland's war Thatcher and the Tories were the most hated government in modern times. "
So what did she do to win the 87 election and what did major do to win the 92 election after a recession ? |
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"Well, that's one take on it.
Remember Winston Churchill won a World War, yet didn't get to win the 1945 General Election.
Gerald Kaufman, a very fine Labour MP, described the 1983 ultra socialist manifesto as the "longest suicide note in history". Will history repeat itself?"
Churchill and Briton did not win WW2. We survived it. The USA were the only winners in WW2.
Remember our cities were severely damaged and in places reduced to rubble, our industry and infrastructure was crippled, our civilian population were effectively conscripted into a home army to supply the fighting men and everything was rationed. The returning army was faced with a country on its knees. Not conducive to winning elections.
In contrast to that the USA suffered 2 killed on the US mainland through enemy action in the whole war, economic activity rocketed. The returning army were met by a population that had suffered no harm from the war (just like the British people in the summer of 82 when the Falklands Task-force returned home).
After the 83 election the Labour party was in disarray mainly because Kinnock and the Labour party had been so arrogantly sure of victory that they ignored history and dismissed the Falklands effect. Therefore it was easier to blame policies and the leaders public arrogance rather than admit they has dismissed as insignificant the most important factor in Thatchers strategy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I myself cannot understand the negativity around Corbyn. Membership of the party is greater than the other parties added together. He seems to be inspiring more youths to become politically active and this through a desire to see a return to more traditional socialist values. Blair made the party turn into the Tories "light" so it would seem that there is a desire within the populous to offer a proper alternative.
I was behind JC for the most part. I felt he had something different about him and was pushing for things I felt I agreed with. Then he messed up. The referendum result gave you 16million people who voted remain and are now, in essence, without a party to stand for them. It felt like he rolled over and joined the Brexit means Brexit brigade and that really disappointed me. I never thought I'd see the day that the MP that speaks with views most similar to my own would be Nick Clegg. JC had the chance to win over a large amount of people and I think he failed when he pushed for A50 "
I agree 16 million people are now looking for a party that they can vote for.I guess many will vote Tory .I always vote green unless i have to vote tactically to prevent a party of the right getting in. The greens were remainers.So im stucking with them. |
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By 87 Labour was so divided it could have been beaten by a puppy, in 92 the torylite infiltration of Labour was nearly complete and Labours defeat was engineered from within thus ensuring that there could be a smooth handover of power from the Tory tories to the Labour tories led by his Tonieness. |
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By *anbrCouple
over a year ago
Edinburgh |
"I myself cannot understand the negativity around Corbyn. Membership of the party is greater than the other parties added together. He seems to be inspiring more youths to become politically active and this through a desire to see a return to more traditional socialist values.
Blair made the party turn
into the Tories "light" so it would seem that there is a desire within the populous to offer a proper alternative.
It is simple, JC would return us to a mixed economy returning vital infrastructure, government and NHS services to public ownership and would reverse much of the taxation and deregulation policy of the last 35 years. This is not in the interests of the multinationals and their executives that have grown fat at the expense of the British people so they have had the Blairites they own attacking JC from within the PLP and the media they control attacking from the outside, and most of the general public swallow it all. "
But it was Thatcher who made the working man believe that they could be part of a free economy. Encouraging everyone to buy their council houses at ridiculously cheap rates making people of my generation believe in the dream. Then the share issues through the 80's again giving a belief that we could all move up the social ladder. All this ever did was make the rich richer and left a gap that - whilst it may focus on Corbyn - needs to be filled with a viable alternative, namely a collective social responsibility for all! |
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By *ercury OP Man
over a year ago
Grantham |
"I myself cannot understand the negativity around Corbyn. Membership of the party is greater than the other parties added together. He seems to be inspiring more youths to become politically active and this through a desire to see a return to more traditional socialist values.
Blair made the party turn
into the Tories "light" so it would seem that there is a desire within the populous to offer a proper alternative.
It is simple, JC would return us to a mixed economy returning vital infrastructure, government and NHS services to public ownership and would reverse much of the taxation and deregulation policy of the last 35 years. This is not in the interests of the multinationals and their executives that have grown fat at the expense of the British people so they have had the Blairites they own attacking JC from within the PLP and the media they control attacking from the outside, and most of the general public swallow it all.
But it was Thatcher who made the working man believe that they could be part of a free economy. Encouraging everyone to buy their council houses at ridiculously cheap rates making people of my generation believe in the dream. Then the share issues through the 80's again giving a belief that we could all move up the social ladder. All this ever did was make the rich richer and left a gap that - whilst it may focus on Corbyn - needs to be filled with a viable alternative, namely a collective social responsibility for all!"
So where is that alternative going to come from? All I see is a vacuum on the left?
If it wasn't for more pressing matters, then a snap general election could be held within weeks. Most commentators had the Tories winning such an election by nearly 100 seats, thus casting Labour, or whatever is left of it, into the wilderness for many more years to come.
Would Labour fight a GE on a policy of nationalisation? I suggest not, as there is no mainstream appetite for it.
I'm never going to criticise anyone for their political beliefs but the Left needs to step up, get some serious policies and provide some really credible opposition. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I myself cannot understand the negativity around Corbyn. Membership of the party is greater than the other parties added together. He seems to be inspiring more youths to become politically active and this through a desire to see a return to more traditional socialist values. Blair made the party turn into the Tories "light" so it would seem that there is a desire within the populous to offer a proper alternative.
I was behind JC for the most part. I felt he had something different about him and was pushing for things I felt I agreed with. Then he messed up. The referendum result gave you 16million people who voted remain and are now, in essence, without a party to stand for them. It felt like he rolled over and joined the Brexit means Brexit brigade and that really disappointed me. I never thought I'd see the day that the MP that speaks with views most similar to my own would be Nick Clegg. JC had the chance to win over a large amount of people and I think he failed when he pushed for A50 I agree 16 million people are now looking for a party that they can vote for.I guess many will vote Tory .I always vote green unless i have to vote tactically to prevent a party of the right getting in. The greens were remainers.So im stucking with them."
I voted remain and it would take something monumental for me to vote Tory. |
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"
Would Labour fight a GE on a policy of nationalisation? I suggest not, as there is no mainstream appetite for it.
"
Really???
Are you sure of that?
Because from where I look that is not the case. I see no mass demonstrations demanding that the Netherlands, French, German and Chinese governments be forced to sell off their holdings in our British subsidised infrastructure. In fact I would say that the vast majority of the population seem quite at ease with us having a mixed economy. In fact I would say that even our Tory government is more than happy to have state run subsidised services in Briton, so long as its foreign powers running them and foreign countries benefiting from our tax subsidies! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Didn't they try that in 1983?
If they have such a huge membership, then why aren't they coming out to vote? Are these true Labour supporters, or people just seeing it to be "on trend" to be a member?
Now there you go believing the propaganda.
Labour did not loose the 83 election on policy.
Thatcher won it by engineering and then taking the country into a wholly unnecessary war then wrapping herself in the flag and riding a tide of jingoistic national pride at how we 'beat the argies' back into a second term in power! Remember that prior to the Falkland's war Thatcher and the Tories were the most hated government in modern times. "
Also the CIA had labour down as threat in that election. They even named Corbyn there. So I wonder if the USA meddled then too. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"I myself cannot understand the negativity around Corbyn. Membership of the party is greater than the other parties added together. He seems to be inspiring more youths to become politically active and this through a desire to see a return to more traditional socialist values. Blair made the party turn into the Tories "light" so it would seem that there is a desire within the populous to offer a proper alternative.
I was behind JC for the most part. I felt he had something different about him and was pushing for things I felt I agreed with. Then he messed up. The referendum result gave you 16million people who voted remain and are now, in essence, without a party to stand for them. It felt like he rolled over and joined the Brexit means Brexit brigade and that really disappointed me. I never thought I'd see the day that the MP that speaks with views most similar to my own would be Nick Clegg. JC had the chance to win over a large amount of people and I think he failed when he pushed for A50 I agree 16 million people are now looking for a party that they can vote for.I guess many will vote Tory .I always vote green unless i have to vote tactically to prevent a party of the right getting in. The greens were remainers.So im stucking with them.
I voted remain and it would take something monumental for me to vote Tory. "
I voted leave and have never voted Tory in my life. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I myself cannot understand the negativity around Corbyn. Membership of the party is greater than the other parties added together. He seems to be inspiring more youths to become politically active and this through a desire to see a return to more traditional socialist values. Blair made the party turn into the Tories "light" so it would seem that there is a desire within the populous to offer a proper alternative.
I was behind JC for the most part. I felt he had something different about him and was pushing for things I felt I agreed with. Then he messed up. The referendum result gave you 16million people who voted remain and are now, in essence, without a party to stand for them. It felt like he rolled over and joined the Brexit means Brexit brigade and that really disappointed me. I never thought I'd see the day that the MP that speaks with views most similar to my own would be Nick Clegg. JC had the chance to win over a large amount of people and I think he failed when he pushed for A50 I agree 16 million people are now looking for a party that they can vote for.I guess many will vote Tory .I always vote green unless i have to vote tactically to prevent a party of the right getting in. The greens were remainers.So im stucking with them.
I voted remain and it would take something monumental for me to vote Tory. "
If it looked like a race between tory and ukip in my city i would have to vote tory.Better the devil you know. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I really don't know where to start on this issue.
the funny thing is every time there is a blind poll where the public are asked what policies they support, they overwhelmingly choose JC's and Labour policies and reject Tory policies. This is across the country, even in the most staunchly conservative areas. But then as soon as they are told that they have picked JC's Labour policies and rejected the Tory policies they reverse their positions because JC is some sort of wishy washy leftie commie and the Tories are the real party of the people.
So I would suggest the problem is not so much one of connecting with the people, but more of how do your reverse 35 years of conditioning by the ultra right wing foreign billionaires who have been allowed take control of our press and turn it into a brainwashing machine for the far right?"
You're absolutely spot on.  |
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"I really don't know where to start on this issue.
the funny thing is every time there is a blind poll where the public are asked what policies they support, they overwhelmingly choose JC's and Labour policies and reject Tory policies. This is across the country, even in the most staunchly conservative areas. But then as soon as they are told that they have picked JC's Labour policies and rejected the Tory policies they reverse their positions because JC is some sort of wishy washy leftie commie and the Tories are the real party of the people.
So I would suggest the problem is not so much one of connecting with the people, but more of how do your reverse 35 years of conditioning by the ultra right wing foreign billionaires who have been allowed take control of our press and turn it into a brainwashing machine for the far right?
You're absolutely spot on. "
I would also agree. The public are a lot less educated in politics, and especially in the history of the Union/Labour movement.
They have been taught that Unions are "bad", so are scared of Union "influence" in the Labour party. Not realising that's the reason it exists in the first place.
As their rights (to fair and safe working places) are slowly but surely eroded (likely to be accelerated by Brexit) we may see a change.
I'm not overly optimistic at present, the clutch of the media is very hard to break. |
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By *ercury OP Man
over a year ago
Grantham |
The Mirror and Guardian are both left leaning newspapers, and don't forget the part that Murdoch's Sun played in the Labour victory in 1997.
As can be seen from the EU Referendum, Trump and Marine in France, social media has replaced the printed word in getting a message across quickly and to bigger numbers of people.
The mechanisms are there to get policies across but some just want to blame the Right again.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Mirror and Guardian are both left leaning newspapers, and don't forget the part that Murdoch's Sun played in the Labour victory in 1997.
As can be seen from the EU Referendum, Trump and Marine in France, social media has replaced the printed word in getting a message across quickly and to bigger numbers of people.
The mechanisms are there to get policies across but some just want to blame the Right again.
"
or make excuses |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Didn't they try that in 1983?
If they have such a huge membership, then why aren't they coming out to vote? Are these true Labour supporters, or people just seeing it to be "on trend" to be a member?
Now there you go believing the propaganda.
Labour did not loose the 83 election on policy.
Thatcher won it by engineering and then taking the country into a wholly unnecessary war then wrapping herself in the flag and riding a tide of jingoistic national pride at how we 'beat the argies' back into a second term in power! Remember that prior to the Falkland's war Thatcher and the Tories were the most hated government in modern times. "
You are fooling yourself if you believe this,people voted for Thatcher mainly because she was a strong leader,I believe people vote for leaders rather than polycies these days.
I am not saying weather it is right or wrong but it is a fact.
Agree with May or not she has a very strong personality where as Corbyn comes across as a wimpy school teacher full of theories but no policies.
We all want more money for the NHS social services,education etc,but he has no real plan of how to do this exept raise taxes which people do not like.We also like a government strong on defence,again May wins hands down.
I believe that to much is made of right and left wing as personality is wrongly more important |
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"...where as Corbyn comes across as a wimpy school teacher full of theories but no policies..."
Is that your genuine perception of the bloke, or the one you have been trained to have?
Personally when I see him at PMQs or in interviews he comes across well.
I don't think I have ever seen May give a straight answer... |
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"The Mirror and Guardian are both left leaning newspapers, and don't forget the part that Murdoch's Sun played in the Labour victory in 1997.
As can be seen from the EU Referendum, Trump and Marine in France, social media has replaced the printed word in getting a message across quickly and to bigger numbers of people.
The mechanisms are there to get policies across but some just want to blame the Right again.
"
1997 was a blip, bought and paid for by Blair. Otherwise the Sun has been pretty consistently right wing, and for most of it's history the largest selling tabloid.
In fact your pointing to this shows the power of the media, and it's not changed that much.
Do you think the EU referendum was not influenced by the media?
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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago
carrbrook stalybridge |
Agree with May or not she has a very strong personality where as Corbyn comes across as a wimpy school teacher full of theories but no policies.
and there is the problem for the left lots of protesting against things and opposing but very little alternative policies being proffered they need to show a bit of substance
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By *ercury OP Man
over a year ago
Grantham |
"...where as Corbyn comes across as a wimpy school teacher full of theories but no policies...
Is that your genuine perception of the bloke, or the one you have been trained to have?
Personally when I see him at PMQs or in interviews he comes across well.
I don't think I have ever seen May give a straight answer..."
I'm afraid that is how your average voter sees him. Comments I have had from my Labour voting friends are "the man has no passion" and "surrounded himself with his sycophants"
The purpose of this thread was to try and get an insight from the Left. I'm not hearing of any reason to why the average man and woman is going to engage with the Labour Party.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"...where as Corbyn comes across as a wimpy school teacher full of theories but no policies...
Is that your genuine perception of the bloke, or the one you have been trained to have?
Personally when I see him at PMQs or in interviews he comes across well.
I don't think I have ever seen May give a straight answer...
I'm afraid that is how your average voter sees him. Comments I have had from my Labour voting friends are "the man has no passion" and "surrounded himself with his sycophants"
The purpose of this thread was to try and get an insight from the Left. I'm not hearing of any reason to why the average man and woman is going to engage with the Labour Party.
"
The only group i know that rave about corbyn are the youth.The middles classes and the middle aged dont like him.Maybe if generation Y went out and voted they would be a potent force for change.As it stands tories will be in power for a decade unless the start infighting again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I myself cannot understand the negativity around Corbyn. Membership of the party is greater than the other parties added together. He seems to be inspiring more youths to become politically active and this through a desire to see a return to more traditional socialist values. Blair made the party turn into the Tories "light" so it would seem that there is a desire within the populous to offer a proper alternative.
It is simple, JC would return us to a mixed economy returning vital infrastructure, government and NHS services to public ownership and would reverse much of the taxation and deregulation policy of the last 35 years. This is not in the interests of the multinationals and their executives that have grown fat at the expense of the British people so they have had the Blairites they own attacking JC from within the PLP and the media they control attacking from the outside, and most of the general public swallow it all. "
Deregulation and reduced taxation has made us all better off.
What would be the point in increasing taxes only for the taxes collected to be wasted ?
If we want proof that the current policies work , just look at the enormous increase in the standard of living over the last twenty years and the vast number of coffee shops now open. |
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"Deregulation and reduced taxation has made us all better off. "
But that's the point, it hasn't!
A new entry level basic car cost about 6 months average pay, a family car costs about an average years pay just as it did in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00 and up to today. However an new build average 3 bed semi cost about 2 years average pay in the 60's and 70's, but since thatcher forced the sell off of council housing stock in the 80's and 90's an average 3 bed new build has steadily climbed in cost till today when it comes in at about 10 times average annual salary. Something like 75% of the population are earning less today than they did in the 90's. the only people who have become better off through deregulation and decreased taxation are the top 1%.
But you keep believing the guff being constantly pumped out while everything you have is being stripped from you and your children and passed up to the wealthiest in society. Eventually you will wake up and realise its all gone and you helped the carpetbagger take it all. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"I myself cannot understand the negativity around Corbyn. Membership of the party is greater than the other parties added together. He seems to be inspiring more youths to become politically active and this through a desire to see a return to more traditional socialist values. Blair made the party turn into the Tories "light" so it would seem that there is a desire within the populous to offer a proper alternative.
It is simple, JC would return us to a mixed economy returning vital infrastructure, government and NHS services to public ownership and would reverse much of the taxation and deregulation policy of the last 35 years. This is not in the interests of the multinationals and their executives that have grown fat at the expense of the British people so they have had the Blairites they own attacking JC from within the PLP and the media they control attacking from the outside, and most of the general public swallow it all. Deregulation and reduced taxation has made us all better off.
What would be the point in increasing taxes only for the taxes collected to be wasted ?
If we want proof that the current policies work , just look at the enormous increase in the standard of living over the last twenty years and the vast number of coffee shops now open. "
Increase in the standard of living for who? How are you measuring that? The gap between the rich and the poor grows ever wider, and not only can peoplenot afford coffe shops, more and more are having to use food banks.
The thing that I find frghtening is that my generation has more in common with my grandparents that my parents in terms of social mobility.
The increase in living standards was driven in the postwar era by two things - a shortage of labour, thus tipping the usual ratios of supply and demand (a capitalist economy runs best when demand for jobs outstrips supply so that wages can be driven down, it even makes funding a welfare state for the jobless a good idea, as its costs are minimal in comparison to those saved by low wages)
- Fear of the population. "Total war" meant, uniquely in history that the vast majority of men of fighting age were trained soldiers. This, incidentally, is why you are very unlikley to see it repeated.
I think JC did well initially engaging with the youth, he had a very savvy social media presence, I find it mildly dissapointing that the meme circulated endlessly by the media (both on the right, and more lately the liberal left) that Corbyn is not "leadership mareial" (says who?!) has been taken up by just about everyone.
It may be that Corbyn is doomed because of this. The labour party sems to have purged itself of Blairites, who did not go quietly, and are now incredibly vocal critics of the Labour Party, continuing in their original aim of destroying Socialism in the UK. It may be that this returning of the Labour Party to it's roots as a social democratic party is Corbyns' legacy. Revolutions have a nasty habit of eating their own children. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Face it guys, the Labour party is dead and irrelevant, they have no credible policies or aims. Yes Corbyn is useless but the demise is not his fault. 7 of the last 8 Labour leaders have failed to win an election and the only one who did is now one of the most reviled men in the country. The young like Corbyn because they know no better. Labour have always made us poorer and apart from just after the war they have always increased unemployment. It is no right wing conspiracy, it is fact. When Labour campaigned in Copeland they warned that you must vote for us or the hospital will close and people will die. And Copeland chose death. Kind of says it all |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Much has been made over the last week of the Labour Party's poor showing in the two by-elections.
So, in a question aimed largely at the Left leaning posters on this forum:-
How Is The Labour Party Going To Re-Connect With The British Public?
Some views from the other side of the fence. Over the last few months, there has been a trend to call anyone and anything from right of centre as being bad and wrong. Well, that's maybe fine but where are the policies and the positions from the left? If name calling is all you've got, then you have no hope. As the "best leader that the Labour Party never had" David Milliband recently said, Labour is as far from Goverment as he's seen.
We are seeing Corbynistas such as Thornberry, Abbot and Chakribarti, who are plainly out of their depth. They are not believed because they are just not being listened to. Where are the MPs that the centre ground can relate to? Frank Field, Margaret Hodge, Iain Wright...the sort of people that can pull the Labour Party back round again.
I see no reason why this debate needs to be hijacked by Brexit or Trump, just good old fashioned british politics. And remember, extremism exists on both sides, left or right, its just that, extremism.
"
Gisela Stewart or Kate Hoey would get s lot of support I think or had been said Frank Field |
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"I really don't know where to start on this issue.
the funny thing is every time there is a blind poll where the public are asked what policies they support, they overwhelmingly choose JC's and Labour policies and reject Tory policies. This is across the country, even in the most staunchly conservative areas. But then as soon as they are told that they have picked JC's Labour policies and rejected the Tory policies they reverse their positions because JC is some sort of wishy washy leftie commie and the Tories are the real party of the people.
So I would suggest the problem is not so much one of connecting with the people, but more of how do your reverse 35 years of conditioning by the ultra right wing foreign billionaires who have been allowed take control of our press and turn it into a brainwashing machine for the far right?"
I'm a Tory voter who had this conversation with a very left wing friend of mine before the last election. She listed several of Ed Millibands policies and asked why I disagree with them. I said I agreed with all of them as the moral thing to do for the nation, I just didn't believe he could get the big tax dodging companies to pay their share to fund it all, so he either wouldn't follow through or rack up the national debt even further.
Like them or not, the Tories have a slightly better record of creating economies where business grows and a little money eventually trickles down to the bottom. It's when economies go to shit that the Haves at the top start hoarding it away so there's nothing left for the have-nots at the bottom. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I really don't know where to start on this issue.
the funny thing is every time there is a blind poll where the public are asked what policies they support, they overwhelmingly choose JC's and Labour policies and reject Tory policies. This is across the country, even in the most staunchly conservative areas. But then as soon as they are told that they have picked JC's Labour policies and rejected the Tory policies they reverse their positions because JC is some sort of wishy washy leftie commie and the Tories are the real party of the people.
So I would suggest the problem is not so much one of connecting with the people, but more of how do your reverse 35 years of conditioning by the ultra right wing foreign billionaires who have been allowed take control of our press and turn it into a brainwashing machine for the far right?
I'm a Tory voter who had this conversation with a very left wing friend of mine before the last election. She listed several of Ed Millibands policies and asked why I disagree with them. I said I agreed with all of them as the moral thing to do for the nation, I just didn't believe he could get the big tax dodging companies to pay their share to fund it all, so he either wouldn't follow through or rack up the national debt even further.
Like them or not, the Tories have a slightly better record of creating economies where business grows and a little money eventually trickles down to the bottom. It's when economies go to shit that the Haves at the top start hoarding it away so there's nothing left for the have-nots at the bottom."
somebody will be along in a min to tell you the trickle down effect doesn't work. What you say is right though, that is the reality |
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"I really don't know where to start on this issue.
the funny thing is every time there is a blind poll where the public are asked what policies they support, they overwhelmingly choose JC's and Labour policies and reject Tory policies. This is across the country, even in the most staunchly conservative areas. But then as soon as they are told that they have picked JC's Labour policies and rejected the Tory policies they reverse their positions because JC is some sort of wishy washy leftie commie and the Tories are the real party of the people.
So I would suggest the problem is not so much one of connecting with the people, but more of how do your reverse 35 years of conditioning by the ultra right wing foreign billionaires who have been allowed take control of our press and turn it into a brainwashing machine for the far right?
I'm a Tory voter who had this conversation with a very left wing friend of mine before the last election. She listed several of Ed Millibands policies and asked why I disagree with them. I said I agreed with all of them as the moral thing to do for the nation, I just didn't believe he could get the big tax dodging companies to pay their share to fund it all, so he either wouldn't follow through or rack up the national debt even further.
Like them or not, the Tories have a slightly better record of creating economies where business grows and a little money eventually trickles down to the bottom. It's when economies go to shit that the Haves at the top start hoarding it away so there's nothing left for the have-nots at the bottom.
somebody will be along in a min to tell you the trickle down effect doesn't work. What you say is right though, that is the reality "
Surely if a business grows, more people are employed by it and come off benefits and pay more income tax and free up more money for those who still need benefits?
I realise this is an over simplification but what exactly is the flaw in the idea in your eyes? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I really don't know where to start on this issue.
the funny thing is every time there is a blind poll where the public are asked what policies they support, they overwhelmingly choose JC's and Labour policies and reject Tory policies. This is across the country, even in the most staunchly conservative areas. But then as soon as they are told that they have picked JC's Labour policies and rejected the Tory policies they reverse their positions because JC is some sort of wishy washy leftie commie and the Tories are the real party of the people.
So I would suggest the problem is not so much one of connecting with the people, but more of how do your reverse 35 years of conditioning by the ultra right wing foreign billionaires who have been allowed take control of our press and turn it into a brainwashing machine for the far right?
I'm a Tory voter who had this conversation with a very left wing friend of mine before the last election. She listed several of Ed Millibands policies and asked why I disagree with them. I said I agreed with all of them as the moral thing to do for the nation, I just didn't believe he could get the big tax dodging companies to pay their share to fund it all, so he either wouldn't follow through or rack up the national debt even further.
Like them or not, the Tories have a slightly better record of creating economies where business grows and a little money eventually trickles down to the bottom. It's when economies go to shit that the Haves at the top start hoarding it away so there's nothing left for the have-nots at the bottom.
somebody will be along in a min to tell you the trickle down effect doesn't work. What you say is right though, that is the reality
Surely if a business grows, more people are employed by it and come off benefits and pay more income tax and free up more money for those who still need benefits?
I realise this is an over simplification but what exactly is the flaw in the idea in your eyes? "
no flaw in my eyes, think you missed what I was saying. Someone will find a flaw |
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"I really don't know where to start on this issue.
the funny thing is every time there is a blind poll where the public are asked what policies they support, they overwhelmingly choose JC's and Labour policies and reject Tory policies. This is across the country, even in the most staunchly conservative areas. But then as soon as they are told that they have picked JC's Labour policies and rejected the Tory policies they reverse their positions because JC is some sort of wishy washy leftie commie and the Tories are the real party of the people.
So I would suggest the problem is not so much one of connecting with the people, but more of how do your reverse 35 years of conditioning by the ultra right wing foreign billionaires who have been allowed take control of our press and turn it into a brainwashing machine for the far right?
I'm a Tory voter who had this conversation with a very left wing friend of mine before the last election. She listed several of Ed Millibands policies and asked why I disagree with them. I said I agreed with all of them as the moral thing to do for the nation, I just didn't believe he could get the big tax dodging companies to pay their share to fund it all, so he either wouldn't follow through or rack up the national debt even further.
Like them or not, the Tories have a slightly better record of creating economies where business grows and a little money eventually trickles down to the bottom. It's when economies go to shit that the Haves at the top start hoarding it away so there's nothing left for the have-nots at the bottom.
somebody will be along in a min to tell you the trickle down effect doesn't work. What you say is right though, that is the reality
Surely if a business grows, more people are employed by it and come off benefits and pay more income tax and free up more money for those who still need benefits?
I realise this is an over simplification but what exactly is the flaw in the idea in your eyes?
no flaw in my eyes, think you missed what I was saying. Someone will find a flaw"
Ah, yes, see what you meant now.  |
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"They now have another By Election to go at, in an.ultra safe seat, Manchester Gorton.
Thing is, if they hold on to that seat, will the leadership believe that they are on the right track and everything is hunky dory?
Again, I think you ask the wrong question. Rather than the question being about if Labour win or loose, or by how much. Surely the question that all politicians should be asking is: What do we do if the turnout is as low as Copeland or heaven forbid Stoke? "
Well labour have an answer for a low turn out, blame the weather lol
Like they don't have hundreds of volunteers willing to take any voter to polling stations in the vain hope that they will vote for them
And 1 of the biggest reasons I and many centre right voters won't vote labour is that I am fed up being told that I don't care and no feelings because I'm a conservative voter
Yeah I do care, I've volunteered weeks of my time for now reward to help out SOGB. Walked a wet and windy golf course caddying for learning challenged individuals so that they can try to get a future tournament
Helped out at homeless shelters, sat on pavements talking to drug and alcoholic suffering homeless peeps,
Taken ex cons for meals because they need a chat and a meal, and lots of other causes supported and helped.
So to constantly say if you vote conservative your heartless uncaring and don't have a social conscience is very wrong... in the same to think that if you support labour you have the moral high ground is also wrong
And yeah I might well be comfortably off now, but I worked for everything I have, came from a piss poor broken home, but we did have 1 thing in abundance Love respect care and knew what was is right and wrong |
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"I really don't know where to start on this issue.
the funny thing is every time there is a blind poll where the public are asked what policies they support, they overwhelmingly choose JC's and Labour policies and reject Tory policies. This is across the country, even in the most staunchly conservative areas. But then as soon as they are told that they have picked JC's Labour policies and rejected the Tory policies they reverse their positions because JC is some sort of wishy washy leftie commie and the Tories are the real party of the people.
So I would suggest the problem is not so much one of connecting with the people, but more of how do your reverse 35 years of conditioning by the ultra right wing foreign billionaires who have been allowed take control of our press and turn it into a brainwashing machine for the far right?
I'm a Tory voter who had this conversation with a very left wing friend of mine before the last election. She listed several of Ed Millibands policies and asked why I disagree with them. I said I agreed with all of them as the moral thing to do for the nation, I just didn't believe he could get the big tax dodging companies to pay their share to fund it all, so he either wouldn't follow through or rack up the national debt even further.
Like them or not, the Tories have a slightly better record of creating economies where business grows and a little money eventually trickles down to the bottom. It's when economies go to shit that the Haves at the top start hoarding it away so there's nothing left for the have-nots at the bottom.
somebody will be along in a min to tell you the trickle down effect doesn't work. What you say is right though, that is the reality
Surely if a business grows, more people are employed by it and come off benefits and pay more income tax and free up more money for those who still need benefits?
I realise this is an over simplification but what exactly is the flaw in the idea in your eyes? "
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They now have another By Election to go at, in an.ultra safe seat, Manchester Gorton.
Thing is, if they hold on to that seat, will the leadership believe that they are on the right track and everything is hunky dory?
Again, I think you ask the wrong question. Rather than the question being about if Labour win or loose, or by how much. Surely the question that all politicians should be asking is: What do we do if the turnout is as low as Copeland or heaven forbid Stoke?
Well labour have an answer for a low turn out, blame the weather lol
Like they don't have hundreds of volunteers willing to take any voter to polling stations in the vain hope that they will vote for them
And 1 of the biggest reasons I and many centre right voters won't vote labour is that I am fed up being told that I don't care and no feelings because I'm a conservative voter
Yeah I do care, I've volunteered weeks of my time for now reward to help out SOGB. Walked a wet and windy golf course caddying for learning challenged individuals so that they can try to get a future tournament
Helped out at homeless shelters, sat on pavements talking to drug and alcoholic suffering homeless peeps,
Taken ex cons for meals because they need a chat and a meal, and lots of other causes supported and helped.
So to constantly say if you vote conservative your heartless uncaring and don't have a social conscience is very wrong... in the same to think that if you support labour you have the moral high ground is also wrong
And yeah I might well be comfortably off now, but I worked for everything I have, came from a piss poor broken home, but we did have 1 thing in abundance Love respect care and knew what was is right and wrong "
good post . The truth is that most working class people are actually Conservative in their aims and take on life and Labour of today have forgotten this |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They now have another By Election to go at, in an.ultra safe seat, Manchester Gorton.
Thing is, if they hold on to that seat, will the leadership believe that they are on the right track and everything is hunky dory?
Again, I think you ask the wrong question. Rather than the question being about if Labour win or loose, or by how much. Surely the question that all politicians should be asking is: What do we do if the turnout is as low as Copeland or heaven forbid Stoke?
Well labour have an answer for a low turn out, blame the weather lol
Like they don't have hundreds of volunteers willing to take any voter to polling stations in the vain hope that they will vote for them
And 1 of the biggest reasons I and many centre right voters won't vote labour is that I am fed up being told that I don't care and no feelings because I'm a conservative voter
Yeah I do care, I've volunteered weeks of my time for now reward to help out SOGB. Walked a wet and windy golf course caddying for learning challenged individuals so that they can try to get a future tournament
Helped out at homeless shelters, sat on pavements talking to drug and alcoholic suffering homeless peeps,
Taken ex cons for meals because they need a chat and a meal, and lots of other causes supported and helped.
So to constantly say if you vote conservative your heartless uncaring and don't have a social conscience is very wrong... in the same to think that if you support labour you have the moral high ground is also wrong
And yeah I might well be comfortably off now, but I worked for everything I have, came from a piss poor broken home, but we did have 1 thing in abundance Love respect care and knew what was is right and wrong "
An excellent post. Love , respect and care mean a lot . I provide extensive help to someone with mental health issues and believe that those who vote Conservative are actually more caring . They make an effort to do things , they do not expect everyone else to do it for them. |
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Funny thing is that the Tory record on reducing debt is no as good as Labours.
The Tory record of growing the economy is not as good as Labours.
The Tory record on increasing public borrowing outstrips Labour by miles! In fact in the last 6 years the Tories have borrowed more than EVERY Labour government there has been.
and funnest of all, after 6 years of ideological austerity the new PM and Chancellor adopted the economic plans that Labour proposed 6 years ago. Of course six years ago they were described as loony but when May and Hammond adopt them they are inspired! Of course there was no change to ideology driven squeeze on benefits that costs more to administer than it saves.
But the Tories are the ones who control the media and the media tell us all that they are great...
Read it in the papers, must be true... 
Lets have some more deregulation! Its not as if all these deregulated businesses keep committing fraud. The Tories and the papers tell us there is nothing to worry about. Self regulation works, the banks learned their lesson after Barings, they made sure the second time that the fraud was so big no one could be sent to jail for it, and having got away with that they went on to fix the libor market and miss sell (another name for fraud) PPI. anyone remember Equitable Life?  |
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"Funny thing is that the Tory record on reducing debt is no as good as Labours.
The Tory record of growing the economy is not as good as Labours.
The Tory record on increasing public borrowing outstrips Labour by miles! In fact in the last 6 years the Tories have borrowed more than EVERY Labour government there has been.
and funnest of all, after 6 years of ideological austerity the new PM and Chancellor adopted the economic plans that Labour proposed 6 years ago. Of course six years ago they were described as loony but when May and Hammond adopt them they are inspired! Of course there was no change to ideology driven squeeze on benefits that costs more to administer than it saves.
But the Tories are the ones who control the media and the media tell us all that they are great...
Read it in the papers, must be true...
Lets have some more deregulation! Its not as if all these deregulated businesses keep committing fraud. The Tories and the papers tell us there is nothing to worry about. Self regulation works, the banks learned their lesson after Barings, they made sure the second time that the fraud was so big no one could be sent to jail for it, and having got away with that they went on to fix the libor market and miss sell (another name for fraud) PPI. anyone remember Equitable Life? "
Hasn't a lot of the borrowing over the last few years been trying to deal with the global financial crisis rather than just our own government's policies?
And I'm sure I read somewhere that the deregulation in US banking that caused most of the problem, by allowing Wall Street to head down to Vegas with Working Class America's homes and pensions and bet it all on Black was done by the Democratic Clinton Administration, the party that's supposed to be looking out for Working Class America? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I believe Corbyn has appealed to a new type of voter. Which explains why he's losing regular voters and gaining new ones. Until the GE we won't know how popular he really is. Basically in business terms he's found a new market. What is the share of that market? No clue, it is extremely untested.
The media has jumped on negativity of his personality and fail to report on what is good. I.e. the BBC editing interviews of him. But he has a great social media presence. In the labour leadership competition it's apparent.
But for those who hate his personality. Seperate the policy from the person. If someone charasmatic, uses the same policies, accepts Brexit, fights for social care, housing and national health. Would you vote him? |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"...where as Corbyn comes across as a wimpy school teacher full of theories but no policies...
Is that your genuine perception of the bloke, or the one you have been trained to have?
Personally when I see him at PMQs or in interviews he comes across well.
I don't think I have ever seen May give a straight answer..."
Yes it is my perception o of Corbyn and many people I know view him in the same way |
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I think I should let you all in on a little secret...
Most of us here are of the older persuasion. We grew up in a time without the internet, without social media, a time we thought was a lot more innocent. It was not! We were a lot more unsophisticated, naive and credulous.
We grew up being told that the ignorant working class voted Labour because their fathers and grandfathers before them voted Labour. This was a lie!
The truth is the ignorant working classes for the most part voted Tory because that is what their fathers and grandfathers and their grandfathers before them were told to do by the ruling class and they all did as they were told!
With the advent of the internet access to information has become easier and many are waking up to the reality of our existence and the younger generations are rejecting it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think I should let you all in on a little secret...
Most of us here are of the older persuasion. We grew up in a time without the internet, without social media, a time we thought was a lot more innocent. It was not! We were a lot more unsophisticated, naive and credulous.
We grew up being told that the ignorant working class voted Labour because their fathers and grandfathers before them voted Labour. This was a lie!
The truth is the ignorant working classes for the most part voted Tory because that is what their fathers and grandfathers and their grandfathers before them were told to do by the ruling class and they all did as they were told!
With the advent of the internet access to information has become easier and many are waking up to the reality of our existence and the younger generations are rejecting it."
Garbage |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think I should let you all in on a little secret...
Most of us here are of the older persuasion. We grew up in a time without the internet, without social media, a time we thought was a lot more innocent. It was not! We were a lot more unsophisticated, naive and credulous.
We grew up being told that the ignorant working class voted Labour because their fathers and grandfathers before them voted Labour. This was a lie!
The truth is the ignorant working classes for the most part voted Tory because that is what their fathers and grandfathers and their grandfathers before them were told to do by the ruling class and they all did as they were told!
With the advent of the internet access to information has become easier and many are waking up to the reality of our existence and the younger generations are rejecting it."
Is this a different movement to the alt right? Is this like the rise of Bernie Sanders or other parties like podemos in Spain. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think I should let you all in on a little secret...
Most of us here are of the older persuasion. We grew up in a time without the internet, without social media, a time we thought was a lot more innocent. It was not! We were a lot more unsophisticated, naive and credulous.
We grew up being told that the ignorant working class voted Labour because their fathers and grandfathers before them voted Labour. This was a lie!
The truth is the ignorant working classes for the most part voted Tory because that is what their fathers and grandfathers and their grandfathers before them were told to do by the ruling class and they all did as they were told!
With the advent of the internet access to information has become easier and many are waking up to the reality of our existence and the younger generations are rejecting it.
Garbage"
Sounding like a politician. Why? |
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And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming."
Now I feel old  |
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"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
Now I feel old "
Don't worry, I'm positively ancient. 
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
Now I feel old
Don't worry, I'm positively ancient.
"
Feels better.  |
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"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
Now I feel old "
That's nothing, I once saw a post a comment about "the youth of today" and when I checked his profile, he was a year younger than me! I thought I was still part of "the youth of today"? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
Now I feel old
That's nothing, I once saw a post a comment about "the youth of today" and when I checked his profile, he was a year younger than me! I thought I was still part of "the youth of today"?"
Haha. In 9 months there will be voters born after the millennium.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
Now I feel old
That's nothing, I once saw a post a comment about "the youth of today" and when I checked his profile, he was a year younger than me! I thought I was still part of "the youth of today"?
Haha. In 9 months there will be voters born after the millennium. "
Make that 10. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming."
On the money... |
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"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
Now I feel old
That's nothing, I once saw a post a comment about "the youth of today" and when I checked his profile, he was a year younger than me! I thought I was still part of "the youth of today"?
Haha. In 9 months there will be voters born after the millennium.
Make that 10. "
Will that get them in in time for the Manchester by-election, or just the 2nd Brexit referendum? |
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"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming."
Dinosaurs like Corbyn harking back to the politics of the 1980's. He can't see his extincton coming at the general election in 2020. |
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"I think I should let you all in on a little secret...
Most of us here are of the older persuasion. We grew up in a time without the internet, without social media, a time we thought was a lot more innocent. It was not! We were a lot more unsophisticated, naive and credulous.
We grew up being told that the ignorant working class voted Labour because their fathers and grandfathers before them voted Labour. This was a lie!
The truth is the ignorant working classes for the most part voted Tory because that is what their fathers and grandfathers and their grandfathers before them were told to do by the ruling class and they all did as they were told!
With the advent of the internet access to information has become easier and many are waking up to the reality of our existence and the younger generations are rejecting it."
Conservatism is the new counter culture of the youth of today. The lefty liberal generation now are the teachers in schools trying to push their ideas onto kids but kids (especially teenagers) like to rebel. Conservatism will become more and more popular in the coming years as these kids leave school and get to voting age you will see it reflected in the polls. Conservatism is the new counter culture. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
My take:
Corbyn's policies are resolutely socialist and conviction driven. This appeals to many people who have tired of the flip-flop media driven politics of the last 20 years. Particularly the young, until his half-hearted support for Remain.
However, he us incapable of doing politics. He cannot manage the party he inherited because he's essentially an outsider. He did not create the comes web of networks needed to control a political party.
That chaos makes the party look weak, even if the policies are popular. Nobody wants to vote for a loser.
Labour is also suffering from not actually having delivered for their core voters.
So where now? Very possibly another Labour split with the Lib Dems ending up as the inheritors as ironically their usually complicated message has become very simple. 48%
May is already playing internal politics and can continue as no opposition makes her look strong. Delivery on the tough talking might be harder.
The right have always been very, very good with party discipline because that is an inherent trait of a right leaning voter. It only usually goes wrong when they get comfortable and start infighting. They are very comfortable.
Thatcher, love or hate, was a conviction politician too.
People react well to that honesty hence the locality of Corbyn's core support.
However, Thatcher cut taxes and gave people huge capital gains by selling cheap houses. People say they want a better world and vote for a fatter wallet every time.
Summary? Labour needs someone pretty on television and a simple message because complexity makes people confused and angry. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
Conservatism is the new counter culture of the youth of today. The lefty liberal generation now are the teachers in schools trying to push their ideas onto kids but kids (especially teenagers) like to rebel. Conservatism will become more and more popular in the coming years as these kids leave school and get to voting age you will see it reflected in the polls. Conservatism is the new counter culture. "
I see no evidence of that. The oldest demographic is driving right wing agendas as they are the wealthiest segment of the population and have plenty of time to sweat the small stuff and go and vote about it.
The young are surprisingly socially conservative with sex, drugs and alcohol far less prevalent. That's their rebellion.
Politically they seem to have a far more global view and don't understand old fashioned parochial politics. They expect the normal stuff to just work and do not quite appreciate that running the NHS is not quite the same as developing an App. |
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"My take:
Corbyn's policies are resolutely socialist and conviction driven. This appeals to many people who have tired of the flip-flop media driven politics of the last 20 years. Particularly the young, until his half-hearted support for Remain.
However, he us incapable of doing politics. He cannot manage the party he inherited because he's essentially an outsider. He did not create the comes web of networks needed to control a political party.
That chaos makes the party look weak, even if the policies are popular. Nobody wants to vote for a loser.
Labour is also suffering from not actually having delivered for their core voters.
So where now? Very possibly another Labour split with the Lib Dems ending up as the inheritors as ironically their usually complicated message has become very simple. 48%
May is already playing internal politics and can continue as no opposition makes her look strong. Delivery on the tough talking might be harder.
The right have always been very, very good with party discipline because that is an inherent trait of a right leaning voter. It only usually goes wrong when they get comfortable and start infighting. They are very comfortable.
Thatcher, love or hate, was a conviction politician too.
People react well to that honesty hence the locality of Corbyn's core support.
However, Thatcher cut taxes and gave people huge capital gains by selling cheap houses. People say they want a better world and vote for a fatter wallet every time.
Summary? Labour needs someone pretty on television and a simple message because complexity makes people confused and angry."
Corbyn is not a conviction politician, he proved that with Brexit. His whole career in politics prior to becoming Labour leader was defined by him being a firm anti EU Euroskeptic. Even during his bid to become labour leader he made anti EU points when debating the likes of Yvette Cooper and Andy Burnham which got a positive reaction from audiences and may have helped his victory in becoming leader of the Labour party. Many Labour voters voted Leave in the EU referendum. Corbyn is nothing more than a sell out who turned his back on his Euroskeptic principles which he used as a bargaining chip to try to get more support from the PLP in exchange for his support of Remain during the referendum. His heart was never in Remain though it was plain to see in his half hearted campaigning for Remain during the referendum. A close friend of Corbyn on the Labour back benches from years gone by George Galloway said he was astonished when Corbyn came out for Remain during the referendum. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"My take:
Corbyn's policies are resolutely socialist and conviction driven. This appeals to many people who have tired of the flip-flop media driven politics of the last 20 years. Particularly the young, until his half-hearted support for Remain.
However, he us incapable of doing politics. He cannot manage the party he inherited because he's essentially an outsider. He did not create the comes web of networks needed to control a political party.
That chaos makes the party look weak, even if the policies are popular. Nobody wants to vote for a loser.
Labour is also suffering from not actually having delivered for their core voters.
So where now? Very possibly another Labour split with the Lib Dems ending up as the inheritors as ironically their usually complicated message has become very simple. 48%
May is already playing internal politics and can continue as no opposition makes her look strong. Delivery on the tough talking might be harder.
The right have always been very, very good with party discipline because that is an inherent trait of a right leaning voter. It only usually goes wrong when they get comfortable and start infighting. They are very comfortable.
Thatcher, love or hate, was a conviction politician too.
People react well to that honesty hence the locality of Corbyn's core support.
However, Thatcher cut taxes and gave people huge capital gains by selling cheap houses. People say they want a better world and vote for a fatter wallet every time.
Summary? Labour needs someone pretty on television and a simple message because complexity makes people confused and angry.
Corbyn is not a conviction politician, he proved that with Brexit. His whole career in politics prior to becoming Labour leader was defined by him being a firm anti EU Euroskeptic. Even during his bid to become labour leader he made anti EU points when debating the likes of Yvette Cooper and Andy Burnham which got a positive reaction from audiences and may have helped his victory in becoming leader of the Labour party. Many Labour voters voted Leave in the EU referendum. Corbyn is nothing more than a sell out who turned his back on his Euroskeptic principles which he used as a bargaining chip to try to get more support from the PLP in exchange for his support of Remain during the referendum. His heart was never in Remain though it was plain to see in his half hearted campaigning for Remain during the referendum. A close friend of Corbyn on the Labour back benches from years gone by George Galloway said he was astonished when Corbyn came out for Remain during the referendum. "
I'm still not convinced that you don't just read the bits that you want to.
Of course, it was quite a wide-ranging post so you just picked out the Brexit bits but join up:
"half-hearted support for Remain" and "incapable of doing politics" and you have the paradox of someone trying to be the leader of an essentially remain party who's instincts are for more regulation but less free-market. Exactly the opposite reasons for Remain and stay than yours funnily enough
I'm not a Labour supporter by the way. I just have an interest in a functioning democracy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming."
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something new |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something new"
I don't think it's about who you vote for, it is to do with why you vote and how you come to that conclusion. |
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By *ercury OP Man
over a year ago
Grantham |
The Labour Party of Keir Hardie isn't relevant anymore. People don't work in dark satanic mills or down the mines now. The world has moved on, anyone can be an entrepreneur now. All you need is an idea and a laptop and away you go.
We all have social mobility now. We can deal with anyone in the world in a heartbeat, engage and swap ideas, push boundaries out.
The Right have brought into this. The Left need to stop looking backwards and come to the party.
However, these freedoms allow extremism to flourish. Uber rich exist in all corners of the world and with that, come the Uber poor.
How do we pull the extremes into the centre? Do we need a new party of social responsibility, a party that allows choice and freedom yet is caring and respectful? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Labour Party of Keir Hardie isn't relevant anymore. People don't work in dark satanic mills or down the mines now. The world has moved on, anyone can be an entrepreneur now. All you need is an idea and a laptop and away you go.
We all have social mobility now. We can deal with anyone in the world in a heartbeat, engage and swap ideas, push boundaries out.
The Right have brought into this. The Left need to stop looking backwards and come to the party.
However, these freedoms allow extremism to flourish. Uber rich exist in all corners of the world and with that, come the Uber poor.
How do we pull the extremes into the centre? Do we need a new party of social responsibility, a party that allows choice and freedom yet is caring and respectful?"
Are you mistaken by progressive and conservative? Or liberal (freedom) and authoritarian? Not left and right. Either party can be progressive in their policies. Is the Living Wage left or right? It's both in fact, depending on who implements it, it's just a progressive policy, not conservative (traditional).
What is the definition of Left and Right? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something new"
Garbage! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something newGarbage! "
reality son |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something newGarbage!
reality son"
i got kids and they and their friends arent trump and tory supporters or kanye.They think kanye is cock .Kids are pretty good moral judges and very idealistic.Your away with the fairies sunshine and projecting. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something newGarbage!
reality soni got kids and they and their friends arent trump and tory supporters or kanye.They think kanye is cock .Kids are pretty good moral judges and very idealistic.Your away with the fairies sunshine and projecting. "
is that when they're not hitting people and burning shit? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I myself cannot understand the negativity around Corbyn. Membership of the party is greater than the other parties added together. He seems to be inspiring more youths to become politically active and this through a desire to see a return to more traditional socialist values. Blair made the party turn into the Tories "light" so it would seem that there is a desire within the populous to offer a proper alternative.
It is simple, JC would return us to a mixed economy returning vital infrastructure, government and NHS services to public ownership and would reverse much of the taxation and deregulation policy of the last 35 years. This is not in the interests of the multinationals and their executives that have grown fat at the expense of the British people so they have had the Blairites they own attacking JC from within the PLP and the media they control attacking from the outside, and most of the general public swallow it all.
So would JC fight a General Election on that type of platform?
Didn't they try that in 1983?
If they have such a huge membership, then why aren't they coming out to vote? Are these true Labour supporters, or people just seeing it to be "on trend" to be a member?"
Their "huge membership" are coming out to vote...but it is a tiny proportion of the electorate. Maybe a few hundred in each parliamentary seat?
Mostly made up of "momentum" [ the same Trotskyites that used to be called "militant" under Derek Hatton.....and we all know how that went].
JC has an extremely narrow base but with the same bullying tactics they have taken over many local labour parties. This is not coming from the press...but from actual experience.
This is what has alienated so many traditional labour voters. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something newGarbage!
reality soni got kids and they and their friends arent trump and tory supporters or kanye.They think kanye is cock .Kids are pretty good moral judges and very idealistic.Your away with the fairies sunshine and projecting. "
Out of touch. Plus you're focusing on yourself and area. Demographics are far more complex and bigger than you or me. Politicians segment us and figure how to win the votes. We're mere statistics. 3 rules of rulers. Google it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something newGarbage!
reality soni got kids and they and their friends arent trump and tory supporters or kanye.They think kanye is cock .Kids are pretty good moral judges and very idealistic.Your away with the fairies sunshine and projecting.
is that when they're not hitting people and burning shit?"
Projecting again |
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"I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something new"
Are you serious? Can you not see the irony in what he says and your reaction?
So far in the last 36 years the USA has elected as president:
Ronald Reagan, Republican: A 'B movie' black hat with Alzheimer's, was a cheerleader in a 2nd/3rd rate liberal arts collage where he managed to get a richard.
George W Bush Snr., Republican: A Taxes oil man, was a jock at Yale and graduated with (2 1/2 year rather than 4 year) a BA in Economics.
Bill Clinton, Democrat: Career politician who managed to balance the US budget, studied at Georgetown, Oxford and Yale Law school where he gained a law doctorate.
George W bush Jnr., Republican: Taxes oil man, jock with an MBA from Harvard business School.
Barack Obama, Democrat: Civil rights lawyer and career politician. Studied at Columbia University and Harvard Law where he gained a law doctorate.
Donald Trump, Republican: Successful Reality TV star billionaire who has built his fortune by bankrupting multiple businesses. BSc Economics from Penn State.
Seems to me that Kanye West would be a great fit for the Republican Party. they seem to look for money or celebrity when selecting their presidential candidates.
Of course if he is a Democrat he has no chance unless he is a highly educated lawyer and career politician.
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By *ercury OP Man
over a year ago
Grantham |
In my experience, the youth of today can name and identify with 20 you tube bloggers but cannot name 3 politicians.
I know people at university who didn't vote in the Referendum because they "didn't understand it", and that is the harsh reality that is coming up. |
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"In my experience, the youth of today can name and identify with 20 you tube bloggers but cannot name 3 politicians.
I know people at university who didn't vote in the Referendum because they "didn't understand it", and that is the harsh reality that is coming up."
The youth of today watch more Pewdiepie on YouTube than they do the main stream news on television. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"In my experience, the youth of today can name and identify with 20 you tube bloggers but cannot name 3 politicians.
I know people at university who didn't vote in the Referendum because they "didn't understand it", and that is the harsh reality that is coming up.
The youth of today watch more Pewdiepie on YouTube than they do the main stream news on television. "
Who can blame them when they have nobody in politics who they feel is representing them, has their best interests in mind or is even trustworthy. I know it's the same generation after generation but if you are a young remain voter (or would be if you were of age) who stands for you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"In my experience, the youth of today can name and identify with 20 you tube bloggers but cannot name 3 politicians.
I know people at university who didn't vote in the Referendum because they "didn't understand it", and that is the harsh reality that is coming up.
The youth of today watch more Pewdiepie on YouTube than they do the main stream news on television.
Who can blame them when they have nobody in politics who they feel is representing them, has their best interests in mind or is even trustworthy. I know it's the same generation after generation but if you are a young remain voter (or would be if you were of age) who stands for you? "
Well its obvious the tories and ukip dont represent them. The liberals lied to them over tuition fees and that massive university cost is a huge issue for kids starting out in life.Labour isn't offering anything.The greens have made little impact. So no wonder they call them a lost generation . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"In my experience, the youth of today can name and identify with 20 you tube bloggers but cannot name 3 politicians.
I know people at university who didn't vote in the Referendum because they "didn't understand it", and that is the harsh reality that is coming up.
The youth of today watch more Pewdiepie on YouTube than they do the main stream news on television.
Who can blame them when they have nobody in politics who they feel is representing them, has their best interests in mind or is even trustworthy. I know it's the same generation after generation but if you are a young remain voter (or would be if you were of age) who stands for you? Well its obvious the tories and ukip dont represent them. The liberals lied to them over tuition fees and that massive university cost is a huge issue for kids starting out in life.Labour isn't offering anything.The greens have made little impact. So no wonder they call them a lost generation ."
No wonder they get angry at middle aged suits who claim to know what's best for them. They have no political leader to get behind. It's prime environment for a revelutionary to step up and actually rally a large proportion of the youth. Unfortunately there isn't one of them either. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"In my experience, the youth of today can name and identify with 20 you tube bloggers but cannot name 3 politicians.
I know people at university who didn't vote in the Referendum because they "didn't understand it", and that is the harsh reality that is coming up.
The youth of today watch more Pewdiepie on YouTube than they do the main stream news on television.
Who can blame them when they have nobody in politics who they feel is representing them, has their best interests in mind or is even trustworthy. I know it's the same generation after generation but if you are a young remain voter (or would be if you were of age) who stands for you? Well its obvious the tories and ukip dont represent them. The liberals lied to them over tuition fees and that massive university cost is a huge issue for kids starting out in life.Labour isn't offering anything.The greens have made little impact. So no wonder they call them a lost generation ."
"that massive university cost is a huge issue for kids starting out in life."
perhaps in England!!!
Not in Scotland |
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"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something new"
The evidence is that the young (under 30) demographic were overwhelmingly Remain.....the old were overwhelmingly Leave. Simple |
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"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something new
The evidence is that the young (under 30) demographic were overwhelmingly Remain.....the old were overwhelmingly Leave. Simple"
The conversation is about the youth who are under 18 and unable to vote yet. |
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"In my experience, the youth of today can name and identify with 20 you tube bloggers but cannot name 3 politicians.
I know people at university who didn't vote in the Referendum because they "didn't understand it", and that is the harsh reality that is coming up.
The youth of today watch more Pewdiepie on YouTube than they do the main stream news on television.
Who can blame them when they have nobody in politics who they feel is representing them, has their best interests in mind or is even trustworthy. I know it's the same generation after generation but if you are a young remain voter (or would be if you were of age) who stands for you? "
The only party of Remain are the Lib dems but they double crossed the youth over tuition fees. |
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"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something new
The evidence is that the young (under 30) demographic were overwhelmingly Remain.....the old were overwhelmingly Leave. Simple"
And the old turned out to vote but the young didn't. |
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"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something new
The evidence is that the young (under 30) demographic were overwhelmingly Remain.....the old were overwhelmingly Leave. Simple"
And who would you say had more life experience and knowledge the under (30) or the older generation? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something new
The evidence is that the young (under 30) demographic were overwhelmingly Remain.....the old were overwhelmingly Leave. Simple
And who would you say had more life experience and knowledge the under (30) or the older generation?"
Entirely dependant on the person. I know som very sheltered over 50's who've never left their home town and under 25's who've been to 10-15 countries and worked/volunteered abroad. Experience comes with application not time spent |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming."
Try not to be so cynical,life brings experience,youth brings new ideas,it is the meeting of theses that make things happen(hopefully) |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something new
The evidence is that the young (under 30) demographic were overwhelmingly Remain.....the old were overwhelmingly Leave. Simple
And the old turned out to vote but the young didn't. "
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something new
The evidence is that the young (under 30) demographic were overwhelmingly Remain.....the old were overwhelmingly Leave. Simple
And the old turned out to vote but the young didn't. "
Yet the evidence proves you wrong, it was the old who generally voted for Brexit and the young who voted to remain. |
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"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something new
The evidence is that the young (under 30) demographic were overwhelmingly Remain.....the old were overwhelmingly Leave. Simple
And the old turned out to vote but the young didn't.
Yet the evidence proves you wrong, it was the old who generally voted for Brexit and the young who voted to remain. "
Yeah, and the turnout of young voters was quite a bit lower than older ones. If more youngsters had turned out and voted Remain with their peers, it might have been a different result. |
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"They now have another By Election to go at, in an.ultra safe seat, Manchester Gorton.
Thing is, if they hold on to that seat, will the leadership believe that they are on the right track and everything is hunky dory?
Again, I think you ask the wrong question. Rather than the question being about if Labour win or loose, or by how much. Surely the question that all politicians should be asking is: What do we do if the turnout is as low as Copeland or heaven forbid Stoke?
Well labour have an answer for a low turn out, blame the weather lol
Like they don't have hundreds of volunteers willing to take any voter to polling stations in the vain hope that they will vote for them
And 1 of the biggest reasons I and many centre right voters won't vote labour is that I am fed up being told that I don't care and no feelings because I'm a conservative voter
Yeah I do care, I've volunteered weeks of my time for now reward to help out SOGB. Walked a wet and windy golf course caddying for learning challenged individuals so that they can try to get a future tournament
Helped out at homeless shelters, sat on pavements talking to drug and alcoholic suffering homeless peeps,
Taken ex cons for meals because they need a chat and a meal, and lots of other causes supported and helped.
So to constantly say if you vote conservative your heartless uncaring and don't have a social conscience is very wrong... in the same to think that if you support labour you have the moral high ground is also wrong
And yeah I might well be comfortably off now, but I worked for everything I have, came from a piss poor broken home, but we did have 1 thing in abundance Love respect care and knew what was is right and wrong
good post . The truth is that most working class people are actually Conservative in their aims and take on life and Labour of today have forgotten this"
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"They now have another By Election to go at, in an.ultra safe seat, Manchester Gorton.
Thing is, if they hold on to that seat, will the leadership believe that they are on the right track and everything is hunky dory?
Again, I think you ask the wrong question. Rather than the question being about if Labour win or loose, or by how much. Surely the question that all politicians should be asking is: What do we do if the turnout is as low as Copeland or heaven forbid Stoke?
Well labour have an answer for a low turn out, blame the weather lol
Like they don't have hundreds of volunteers willing to take any voter to polling stations in the vain hope that they will vote for them
And 1 of the biggest reasons I and many centre right voters won't vote labour is that I am fed up being told that I don't care and no feelings because I'm a conservative voter
Yeah I do care, I've volunteered weeks of my time for now reward to help out SOGB. Walked a wet and windy golf course caddying for learning challenged individuals so that they can try to get a future tournament
Helped out at homeless shelters, sat on pavements talking to drug and alcoholic suffering homeless peeps,
Taken ex cons for meals because they need a chat and a meal, and lots of other causes supported and helped.
So to constantly say if you vote conservative your heartless uncaring and don't have a social conscience is very wrong... in the same to think that if you support labour you have the moral high ground is also wrong
And yeah I might well be comfortably off now, but I worked for everything I have, came from a piss poor broken home, but we did have 1 thing in abundance Love respect care and knew what was is right and wrong
good post . The truth is that most working class people are actually Conservative in their aims and take on life and Labour of today have forgotten this
"
So if working class people are conservative then surely that would mean Labour should stop wasting their time trying to get them to vote Labour? |
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"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something new
The evidence is that the young (under 30) demographic were overwhelmingly Remain.....the old were overwhelmingly Leave. Simple
And the old turned out to vote but the young didn't.
Yet the evidence proves you wrong, it was the old who generally voted for Brexit and the young who voted to remain.
Yeah, and the turnout of young voters was quite a bit lower than older ones. If more youngsters had turned out and voted Remain with their peers, it might have been a different result."
18 - 25 year old age group had the lowest turnout in the referendum. Maybe many of them just don't think the EU is important enough to bother voting on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something new
The evidence is that the young (under 30) demographic were overwhelmingly Remain.....the old were overwhelmingly Leave. Simple
And the old turned out to vote but the young didn't.
Yet the evidence proves you wrong, it was the old who generally voted for Brexit and the young who voted to remain.
Yeah, and the turnout of young voters was quite a bit lower than older ones. If more youngsters had turned out and voted Remain with their peers, it might have been a different result.
18 - 25 year old age group had the lowest turnout in the referendum. Maybe many of them just don't think the EU is important enough to bother voting on. "
Where did you find that data? Cannot find it on any official site. Sky did a poll. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something new
The evidence is that the young (under 30) demographic were overwhelmingly Remain.....the old were overwhelmingly Leave. Simple
And the old turned out to vote but the young didn't.
Yet the evidence proves you wrong, it was the old who generally voted for Brexit and the young who voted to remain.
Yeah, and the turnout of young voters was quite a bit lower than older ones. If more youngsters had turned out and voted Remain with their peers, it might have been a different result.
18 - 25 year old age group had the lowest turnout in the referendum. Maybe many of them just don't think the EU is important enough to bother voting on.
Where did you find that data? Cannot find it on any official site. Sky did a poll."
I don't know where some of the assertions have come from from our Brexit chums. They don't believe polls anyway
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted/
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something new
The evidence is that the young (under 30) demographic were overwhelmingly Remain.....the old were overwhelmingly Leave. Simple
And the old turned out to vote but the young didn't.
Yet the evidence proves you wrong, it was the old who generally voted for Brexit and the young who voted to remain.
Yeah, and the turnout of young voters was quite a bit lower than older ones. If more youngsters had turned out and voted Remain with their peers, it might have been a different result.
18 - 25 year old age group had the lowest turnout in the referendum. Maybe many of them just don't think the EU is important enough to bother voting on.
Where did you find that data? Cannot find it on any official site. Sky did a poll.
I don't know where some of the assertions have come from from our Brexit chums. They don't believe polls anyway
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted/
"
Still nothing on the amount of voters. But of course if you take 18 to 25 then 25+ there are more older voters. Where are the numbers! |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something new
The evidence is that the young (under 30) demographic were overwhelmingly Remain.....the old were overwhelmingly Leave. Simple
And the old turned out to vote but the young didn't.
Yet the evidence proves you wrong, it was the old who generally voted for Brexit and the young who voted to remain.
Yeah, and the turnout of young voters was quite a bit lower than older ones. If more youngsters had turned out and voted Remain with their peers, it might have been a different result.
18 - 25 year old age group had the lowest turnout in the referendum. Maybe many of them just don't think the EU is important enough to bother voting on.
Where did you find that data? Cannot find it on any official site. Sky did a poll.
I don't know where some of the assertions have come from from our Brexit chums. They don't believe polls anyway
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted/
Still nothing on the amount of voters. But of course if you take 18 to 25 then 25+ there are more older voters. Where are the numbers!"
In 1975 the vote was 67% to remain.... Which says that older people who voted to leave last year actually changed from having voted remain then....
So those with 40 years experience of the EU actually changed their minds! |
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"In 1975 the vote was 67% to remain.... Which says that older people who voted to leave last year actually changed from having voted remain then....
So those with 40 years experience of the EU actually changed their minds! "
No it does not!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And there we have the reality in 3 reply posts.
A 50 year old (who grew up before the internet) dismisses what I say out of hand.
A 30 year old (who has seen the internet grow up with him) first questions what I say...
Then makes the connection and asks the 50 year old why the total dismissal.
Of course if there were a 20 year old here they would probably be posting the exchange on social media and adding comments about dinosaurs not seeing their extinction coming.
it is garbage because the working class people I grew up with in Stoke in the 60's and 70's who pretty much all worked in the pits or pots or steel all voted Labour, I think I was the first person I ever knew who voted Tory. In those days Labour took about 70% of the vote in Stoke and now in the days of the internet when people are not as innocent or thick as you described them, that share is down to about 30% so it contradicts everything you've said. The young have always voted Labour because ideologically it is the right and fair thing to do, as the old saying goes, if you vote Tory at 18 you have no heart, if you vote Labour at 40 you have no brain. But as Centaur said, the real 'youth' today who are maybe not quite old enough to vote yet are all for the whole Tory and Brexit and Trump thing becuse they see it as a rebellion, I know this because I live with one, he keeps saying that Kanye West should stand for president next time but that's what they identify with and want. Something new
The evidence is that the young (under 30) demographic were overwhelmingly Remain.....the old were overwhelmingly Leave. Simple
And the old turned out to vote but the young didn't.
Yet the evidence proves you wrong, it was the old who generally voted for Brexit and the young who voted to remain.
Yeah, and the turnout of young voters was quite a bit lower than older ones. If more youngsters had turned out and voted Remain with their peers, it might have been a different result.
18 - 25 year old age group had the lowest turnout in the referendum. Maybe many of them just don't think the EU is important enough to bother voting on.
Where did you find that data? Cannot find it on any official site. Sky did a poll.
I don't know where some of the assertions have come from from our Brexit chums. They don't believe polls anyway
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted/
Still nothing on the amount of voters. But of course if you take 18 to 25 then 25+ there are more older voters. Where are the numbers!
In 1975 the vote was 67% to remain.... Which says that older people who voted to leave last year actually changed from having voted remain then....
So those with 40 years experience of the EU actually changed their minds! "
Another statistician. Should become an expert. Let's say no-one changed their mind. People die, people turn 18. How many % voted in both? Then how many % changed their mind. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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That didn't make sense. My bad. The answer would be 0% if the hypothesis is no-one changed their mind. But the percentage that voted in both is interesting. The rest can swing the results. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"That didn't make sense. My bad. The answer would be 0% if the hypothesis is no-one changed their mind. But the percentage that voted in both is interesting. The rest can swing the results."
The turnout in 75 was 65%. 17M voted to remain, 8 M to leave.
By any stretch of the imagination, a large proportion of those that voted to remain in 75, and were still alive to vote last year, would have voted to leave last year. Those that didn't vote in 75, i.e. effectively voting for the 'status quo' or tacitly agreeing with the outcome, would also have voted leave last year. |
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"By any stretch of the imagination, a large proportion of those that voted to remain in 75, and were still alive to vote last year, would have voted to leave last year. Those that didn't vote in 75, i.e. effectively voting for the 'status quo' or tacitly agreeing with the outcome, would also have voted leave last year. "
By any stretch of the imagination...
that really covers your whole premise.
The national death rate is between 500,000 and 600,000 per year since the 70's. Therefore more people have died in the 41 years between the 75 and the 16 vote so no one can claim that the swing over 41 years is because people changed their minds! |
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"...where as Corbyn comes across as a wimpy school teacher full of theories but no policies...
Is that your genuine perception of the bloke, or the one you have been trained to have?
Personally when I see him at PMQs or in interviews he comes across well.
I don't think I have ever seen May give a straight answer..."
May batters him every time during PMQ's he is lost in his own mindset and believes his own hype, let's be honest he could never run a country as he hasn't really got a scooby do on what to do and how to achieve it |
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