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Sadiq Khan And The Scottish Nationalists
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By *ercury OP Man
over a year ago
Grantham |
The Labour Mayor of London has likened Scottish Nationalist position as being racist.
He has started, aided by the Labour PR team, to backtrack on these remarks.
Was he correct in his assumptions or is this showing Labour to be "out of touch"? |
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"The Labour Mayor of London has likened Scottish Nationalist position as being racist.
He has started, aided by the Labour PR team, to backtrack on these remarks.
Was he correct in his assumptions or is this showing Labour to be "out of touch"?"
It seems to be the Labour mentality to label anyone who has a different view to them as racist. Sadiq Khan's idiotic comments in Scotland will only strengthen the SNP more and weaken Labour in Scotland (if that's possible, lol). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Labour Mayor of London has likened Scottish Nationalist position as being racist.
He has started, aided by the Labour PR team, to backtrack on these remarks.
Was he correct in his assumptions or is this showing Labour to be "out of touch"?"
I think he was right about nationalism as it is intended to be divsive, a them and us strategy, I think he did get it wrong calling the SNP racist.
It does call into question though where the roots of nationalism come from, surely ones love of a nation state is a good thing.
But when the love of a nation becomes obsessive, shouldnt that be considered the negative, normally behaviour such as that would be considered abusive even wrong?
Would it stand to reason that Nationalists are obsessive-compulsives which indeed bring out the worst traits in themselves.
Think about it imagine a nationalist stalking its own country hiding in the bushes when it speak to another country and jumps out and accuses its country of cheating on them.
Just putting it out but I am even thinking Nationalists could be considered bunny boilers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Labour Mayor of London has likened Scottish Nationalist position as being racist.
He has started, aided by the Labour PR team, to backtrack on these remarks.
Was he correct in his assumptions or is this showing Labour to be "out of touch"?
It seems to be the Labour mentality to label anyone who has a different view to them as racist. Sadiq Khan's idiotic comments in Scotland will only strengthen the SNP more and weaken Labour in Scotland (if that's possible, lol). "
Nothing can weaken Labour more in Scotland than Kezia Dugdale herself, although Jim Murphy was a close call.
Labour are on a self destruct course of which they are so out of touch they cannot see |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"The Labour Mayor of London has likened Scottish Nationalist position as being racist.
He has started, aided by the Labour PR team, to backtrack on these remarks.
Was he correct in his assumptions or is this showing Labour to be "out of touch"?"
Yes the SNP is completely racist of that I am certain,I know many will not agree but then again people once thought Hitler was not a racist.
Ok maybe a bit over the top as an example but!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Labour Mayor of London has likened Scottish Nationalist position as being racist.
He has started, aided by the Labour PR team, to backtrack on these remarks.
Was he correct in his assumptions or is this showing Labour to be "out of touch"?Yes the SNP is completely racist of that I am certain,I know many will not agree but then again people once thought Hitler was not a racist.
Ok maybe a bit over the top as an example but!!!"
so many on this forum use Hitler as a comparison
sad and totally out of touch |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
There is alot of English people that are members of the SNP and alot of English people support independence for Scotland. So to say the SNP and its members are racist is crazy
The SNP are anti Westminster as they believe that Scotland should have the right to govern itself as its clear to see Scotland didnt vote for the Tories and brexit Scotland and England are going in two different places.
This pish that Scottish Labour have come up with about federalism is bonkers.
I mean does anyone living in England right now want regions of English counties to have more powers over others ? Its not gonna work plus Labour have tries for over 100years to sell this Home Rule for Scotland and failed everytime on delivering it
Hell the knocked back ever devolved power in the Smith commission. |
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"There is alot of English people that are members of the SNP and alot of English people support independence for Scotland. So to say the SNP and its members are racist is crazy
The SNP are anti Westminster as they believe that Scotland should have the right to govern itself as its clear to see Scotland didnt vote for the Tories and brexit Scotland and England are going in two different places.
This pish that Scottish Labour have come up with about federalism is bonkers.
I mean does anyone living in England right now want regions of English counties to have more powers over others ? Its not gonna work plus Labour have tries for over 100years to sell this Home Rule for Scotland and failed everytime on delivering it
Hell the knocked back ever devolved power in the Smith commission. "
Watched Scottish Labour's Kezia Dugdale on the BBC Sunday politics show today and she really lost the plot when she started talking about English Federalism, she was also back peddling furiously over Sadiq Khan's comments. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"There is alot of English people that are members of the SNP and alot of English people support independence for Scotland. So to say the SNP and its members are racist is crazy
The SNP are anti Westminster as they believe that Scotland should have the right to govern itself as its clear to see Scotland didnt vote for the Tories and brexit Scotland and England are going in two different places.
This pish that Scottish Labour have come up with about federalism is bonkers.
I mean does anyone living in England right now want regions of English counties to have more powers over others ? Its not gonna work plus Labour have tries for over 100years to sell this Home Rule for Scotland and failed everytime on delivering it
Hell the knocked back ever devolved power in the Smith commission. "
I was going to call you out on that but it was "a thing" in 2015  I'm not sure English SNP support will be quite the same now. Not seen any more up to date information.
They are far more of a left wing party than anything on offer in England other than the Lib Dems and Greens.
I don't think that old Sadiq actually called the SNP racist, but he certainly chose words than could be used to create an angry headline:
The Mayor of London spoke out ahead of a speech to the Scottish Labour conference in Perth, saying there is “no difference" between nationalists and people who "divide us on the basis of our background, race or religion".
That is, actually, what nationalists do, they just choose an "acceptable" fault line. Nationalism, by it's definition, divides people as much as it unites them doesn't it? |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"There is alot of English people that are members of the SNP and alot of English people support independence for Scotland. So to say the SNP and its members are racist is crazy
The SNP are anti Westminster as they believe that Scotland should have the right to govern itself as its clear to see Scotland didnt vote for the Tories and brexit Scotland and England are going in two different places.
This pish that Scottish Labour have come up with about federalism is bonkers.
I mean does anyone living in England right now want regions of English counties to have more powers over others ? Its not gonna work plus Labour have tries for over 100years to sell this Home Rule for Scotland and failed everytime on delivering it
Hell the knocked back ever devolved power in the Smith commission.
I was going to call you out on that but it was "a thing" in 2015 I'm not sure English SNP support will be quite the same now. Not seen any more up to date information.
They are far more of a left wing party than anything on offer in England other than the Lib Dems and Greens.
I don't think that old Sadiq actually called the SNP racist, but he certainly chose words than could be used to create an angry headline:
The Mayor of London spoke out ahead of a speech to the Scottish Labour conference in Perth, saying there is “no difference" between nationalists and people who "divide us on the basis of our background, race or religion".
That is, actually, what nationalists do, they just choose an "acceptable" fault line. Nationalism, by it's definition, divides people as much as it unites them doesn't it?"
Oh they are there you just have to go looking there is an English people for independence on social media.
Put it this way Labour may say they are against Scottish independence but they seem to be helping the cause everytime one of there members steps infront of a camera
Oh plus there is a Labour for independence group i should imagine Mr Khan just pissed all those Labour members off.
I wonder is British nationalism good or bad ? |
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By *ir1967Man
over a year ago
in da sticks, london, amsterdam, madrid |
"The Labour Mayor of London has likened Scottish Nationalist position as being racist.
He has started, aided by the Labour PR team, to backtrack on these remarks.
Was he correct in his assumptions or is this showing Labour to be "out of touch"?
I think he was right about nationalism as it is intended to be divsive, a them and us strategy, I think he did get it wrong calling the SNP racist.
It does call into question though where the roots of nationalism come from, surely ones love of a nation state is a good thing.
But when the love of a nation becomes obsessive, shouldnt that be considered the negative, normally behaviour such as that would be considered abusive even wrong?
Would it stand to reason that Nationalists are obsessive-compulsives which indeed bring out the worst traits in themselves.
Think about it imagine a nationalist stalking its own country hiding in the bushes when it speak to another country and jumps out and accuses its country of cheating on them.
Just putting it out but I am even thinking Nationalists could be considered bunny boilers."
As nationalism is a concept based on supremacy of one over the other...it is something to be abolished , but as such Britain is intoxicated with this concept for centuries of colonialism and exploitation of other people and cultures , first for the good of England and later for the wealth of the wealthy of Great Britain.
All good, make Britain great again  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
I wonder is British nationalism good or bad ? "
All nationalism is bad. We are tribal though so it's difficult to break and it's easier to be inclusive and treat everyone as people when times are good and we don't mind sharing.
The only real positive elements of nationalism come from uniting people to throw off oppression, but that is just fighting for justice wrapped up in a flag. The point is to get equal treatment.
The nationalist aspect is inherently only good for a specific group which is arbitrarily based on geography. It could just as easily be based on skin colour, sexuality, religion or lactose intolerance. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
The SNP are anti Westminster as they believe that Scotland should have the right to govern itself as its clear to see Scotland didnt vote for the Tories and brexit Scotland and England are going in two different places.
"
see.. i actually like nicola, and i actually like a lot of their policies... (except for the independence bit)
but this anti westminster thing drives be up the wall.... because last time i checked most of the decisions about how scotland spends money in scotland is decided in holyrood....
education, health, transport, social care, farming, arts, from april you also get taxation (have been able to vary it a bit already), and benefits,
you are basically giving the scottish parliament a free pass... what have they been doing for the last 20 years then... sitting on their asses?
i live just the other side of the border to you guys.... you have much more say over your existance than we do..... |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"
The SNP are anti Westminster as they believe that Scotland should have the right to govern itself as its clear to see Scotland didnt vote for the Tories and brexit Scotland and England are going in two different places.
see.. i actually like nicola, and i actually like a lot of their policies... (except for the independence bit)
but this anti westminster thing drives be up the wall.... because last time i checked most of the decisions about how scotland spends money in scotland is decided in holyrood....
education, health, transport, social care, farming, arts, from april you also get taxation (have been able to vary it a bit already), and benefits,
you are basically giving the scottish parliament a free pass... what have they been doing for the last 20 years then... sitting on their asses?
i live just the other side of the border to you guys.... you have much more say over your existance than we do..... "
You said ''MOST'' being the key word there asthat would mean Westminster still hold power say for example money is not devolved to the Scottish government so it has to work with a budget that is being cut by the UK government. Now Scotland has the best record in the UK for the NHS and transport well when lines are not working that is a Network rail problem and that is reversed to Westminster.
If there is a cut in money to the English NHS then it has effect on the health budget in Scotland.
|
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By *onyxptMan
over a year ago
st neots, living in Albufeira-Algarve-Portugal |
"The Labour Mayor of London has likened Scottish Nationalist position as being racist.
He has started, aided by the Labour PR team, to backtrack on these remarks.
Was he correct in his assumptions or is this showing Labour to be "out of touch"?
I think he was right about nationalism as it is intended to be divsive, a them and us strategy, I think he did get it wrong calling the SNP racist.
It does call into question though where the roots of nationalism come from, surely ones love of a nation state is a good thing.
But when the love of a nation becomes obsessive, shouldnt that be considered the negative, normally behaviour such as that would be considered abusive even wrong?
Would it stand to reason that Nationalists are obsessive-compulsives which indeed bring out the worst traits in themselves.
Think about it imagine a nationalist stalking its own country hiding in the bushes when it speak to another country and jumps out and accuses its country of cheating on them.
Just putting it out but I am even thinking Nationalists could be considered bunny boilers.
As nationalism is a concept based on supremacy of one over the other...it is something to be abolished , but as such Britain is intoxicated with this concept for centuries of colonialism and exploitation of other people and cultures , first for the good of England and later for the wealth of the wealthy of Great Britain.
All good, make Britain great again "
What utter load of lefty BS propaganda ! 
Nationalism can be defined in many ways , and can also be abused for political or economical purposes , but at its root, it has nothing to do with "a concept based on supremacy of one over the other..."
Its got more to do with :
"The strong belief that the interests of a particular nation-state are of primary importance. Also, the belief that a people who share a common language, history, and culture should constitute an independent nation, free of foreign domination."
Jesus ! Talk about intellectual dishonesty.... 
Its people like this that contribute to messing up issues, instead of helping clarify them!  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
What utter load of lefty BS propaganda !
Nationalism can be defined in many ways , and can also be abused for political or economical purposes , but at its root, it has nothing to do with "a concept based on supremacy of one over the other..."
Its got more to do with :
"The strong belief that the interests of a particular nation-state are of primary importance. Also, the belief that a people who share a common language, history, and culture should constitute an independent nation, free of foreign domination."
Jesus ! Talk about intellectual dishonesty....
Its people like this that contribute to messing up issues, instead of helping clarify them! "
At the risk of being called a lefty or liberal
Why would you be bothered if you aren't being dominated?
Is one person's nation state objectively more important than anothers?
Why is language or culture more important a connection than religion?
If you treat everyone the same, doesn't a nation state become redundant? |
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By *onyxptMan
over a year ago
st neots, living in Albufeira-Algarve-Portugal |
"
What utter load of lefty BS propaganda !
Nationalism can be defined in many ways , and can also be abused for political or economical purposes , but at its root, it has nothing to do with "a concept based on supremacy of one over the other..."
Its got more to do with :
"The strong belief that the interests of a particular nation-state are of primary importance. Also, the belief that a people who share a common language, history, and culture should constitute an independent nation, free of foreign domination."
Jesus ! Talk about intellectual dishonesty....
Its people like this that contribute to messing up issues, instead of helping clarify them!
At the risk of being called a lefty or liberal
Why would you be bothered if you aren't being dominated?
Is one person's nation state objectively more important than anothers?
Why is language or culture more important a connection than religion?
If you treat everyone the same, doesn't a nation state become redundant?"
In a word, NO !
There is such a thing as cultural heritage History and tradition ! That is why its called, and we have, cultural diversity!
Cultural Identity is an important part of human existence ! When we forget this and try to amalgamate it into the so called multiculturalism melting pot , things go wrong ! In human nature , like in nature some elements just don't mix  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
At the risk of being called a lefty or liberal
Why would you be bothered if you aren't being dominated?
Is one person's nation state objectively more important than anothers?
Why is language or culture more important a connection than religion?
If you treat everyone the same, doesn't a nation state become redundant?
In a word, NO !
There is such a thing as cultural heritage History and tradition ! That is why its called, and we have, cultural diversity!
Cultural Identity is an important part of human existence ! When we forget this and try to amalgamate it into the so called multiculturalism melting pot , things go wrong ! In human nature , like in nature some elements just don't mix "
Who said anything about amalgamation?
The only way to maintain identity is to treat people differently? How differently?
I'm not trying to be clever in an argument, I'm just trying to gauge the parameters. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So, by using the same argument does that make Brexiteers racest? Is there any difference between 'getting our country back',an often used slogan during the leave campaign and a desire for Scottish independence? If the majority of English voters voted to leave the EU on the grounds that they want to control the destiny of their own country why should that make people who want the same for Scotland racest?
You can't have it both ways. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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the fact is that there is a border in the north and on the otherside of that border is a place called scotland .... instead of some people in london fucking things up on their behalf the people who live on the otherside of the northern border should be allowed to fuck things up their own way .... same as the people who live the otherside of the western border in a place called wales should be allowed to fuck things up their own way too .... then the group of people in london will be able to devote more time and energy on fucking things up for the people who call themselves the english |
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By *onyxptMan
over a year ago
st neots, living in Albufeira-Algarve-Portugal |
"The only way to maintain identity is to treat people differently? How differently?
I'm not trying to be clever in an argument, I'm just trying to gauge the parameters."
How Differently ? It depends , there is no one size fits all solution.
The limit of respect for cultural diversity stops when it clashes with the values of another, or the country you live in .
As an example I ask you : Is it correct, or are you willing to accept discrimination of women and/or sexual preferences of certain ethnic Groups of the population now residing in the UK and across Europe , just because its THEIR CULTURE ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Getting back to the original subject, Kahns comments were about as useful to Labour as was sending Eddie Izzard in a dress to Glasgow to campaign beside Jim Murphy during the last election.
Now I'm not one to complain about guys in dresses (for obvious reasons) but sending a crossdressing comic to a working class city was never going to work and neither was this poorly thought out intervention.
If one thing gets up Scottish noses (and, I suspect, most other parts of the UK north of Watford) is someone coming up from London telling us what we're doing wrong. |
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By *onyxptMan
over a year ago
st neots, living in Albufeira-Algarve-Portugal |
"the fact is that there is a border in the north and on the otherside of that border is a place called scotland .... instead of some people in london fucking things up on their behalf the people who live on the otherside of the northern border should be allowed to fuck things up their own way .... same as the people who live the otherside of the western border in a place called wales should be allowed to fuck things up their own way too .... then the group of people in london will be able to devote more time and energy on fucking things up for the people who call themselves the english"
Seems fair to me.... lol..
Could that be why The Romans build Adrian´s WALL ?
WAIT a MINUTE ... Is that Plagiarism by Trump...
Its starting to make sense now.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"the fact is that there is a border in the north and on the otherside of that border is a place called scotland .... instead of some people in london fucking things up on their behalf the people who live on the otherside of the northern border should be allowed to fuck things up their own way .... same as the people who live the otherside of the western border in a place called wales should be allowed to fuck things up their own way too .... then the group of people in london will be able to devote more time and energy on fucking things up for the people who call themselves the english
Seems fair to me.... lol..
Could that be why The Romans build Adrian´s WALL ?
WAIT a MINUTE ... Is that Plagiarism by Trump...
Its starting to make sense now.... "
My Roman history is a bit sketchy but I don't seem to recall the Emperor Adrian |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
""The only way to maintain identity is to treat people differently? How differently?
I'm not trying to be clever in an argument, I'm just trying to gauge the parameters."
How Differently ? It depends , there is no one size fits all solution.
The limit of respect for cultural diversity stops when it clashes with the values of another, or the country you live in .
As an example I ask you : Is it correct, or are you willing to accept discrimination of women and/or sexual preferences of certain ethnic Groups of the population now residing in the UK and across Europe , just because its THEIR CULTURE ? "
No. That's not a response to what I asked. Quite the opposite actually.
I believe that your position is that nationalism is important because cultural identity is of overriding importance. Correct me if I missed something.
A culture where women are treated badly should be a good thing to have if that's their culture.
The French have a similar attitude to women as we do. The Scandinavians have a better one.
If you treat everyone equally, which was my point, then why does nationalism need to be asserted?
Is cultural identity so weak that it breaks down without protection? Important aspects of it would remain wouldn't they? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Getting back to the original subject, Kahns comments were about as useful to Labour as was sending Eddie Izzard in a dress to Glasgow to campaign beside Jim Murphy during the last election.
Now I'm not one to complain about guys in dresses (for obvious reasons) but sending a crossdressing comic to a working class city was never going to work and neither was this poorly thought out intervention.
If one thing gets up Scottish noses (and, I suspect, most other parts of the UK north of Watford) is someone coming up from London telling us what we're doing wrong."
He didn't actually say that techie SNP was racist though. He said that division by nation is no better or worthy than division by religion or race.
In itself I can't objectively disagree.
Sending a Londoner up to Scotland to express a political opinion was exceptionally foolish though. 100% correct |
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By *onyxptMan
over a year ago
st neots, living in Albufeira-Algarve-Portugal |
"the fact is that there is a border in the north and on the otherside of that border is a place called scotland .... instead of some people in london fucking things up on their behalf the people who live on the otherside of the northern border should be allowed to fuck things up their own way .... same as the people who live the otherside of the western border in a place called wales should be allowed to fuck things up their own way too .... then the group of people in london will be able to devote more time and energy on fucking things up for the people who call themselves the english
Seems fair to me.... lol..
Could that be why The Romans build Adrian´s WALL ?
WAIT a MINUTE ... Is that Plagiarism by Trump...
Its starting to make sense now....
My Roman history is a bit sketchy but I don't seem to recall the Emperor Adrian "
14th Roman Emperor Hadrian, Born Publius Aelius Hadrianus
Sorry ! I spelt his name wrong... 
Hope that answers your question! |
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By *onyxptMan
over a year ago
st neots, living in Albufeira-Algarve-Portugal |
"Is cultural identity so weak that it breaks down without protection? Important aspects of it would remain wouldn't they?"
No not necessarily. It would depend on who, or what power, force, was affecting, invading or dominating it!
But granted it is a tricky issue with many variables. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Getting back to the original subject, Kahns comments were about as useful to Labour as was sending Eddie Izzard in a dress to Glasgow to campaign beside Jim Murphy during the last election.
Now I'm not one to complain about guys in dresses (for obvious reasons) but sending a crossdressing comic to a working class city was never going to work and neither was this poorly thought out intervention.
If one thing gets up Scottish noses (and, I suspect, most other parts of the UK north of Watford) is someone coming up from London telling us what we're doing wrong.
He didn't actually say that techie SNP was racist though. He said that division by nation is no better or worthy than division by religion or race.
In itself I can't objectively disagree.
Sending a Londoner up to Scotland to express a political opinion was exceptionally foolish though. 100% correct "
Oh, I fully appreciate that however that's not the way it came across nor is it the way the SNP will present it.
Irrespective of how Khan and Labour try to backtrack the damage has already been done and the nationalists have another stick to beat Labour with.
The real problem for the SNP in Scotland at the moment is the resurgence of the Tories under Davidson. Labour are a lost cause. I noticed that Corbyns speech to the conference had a substantial number of empty seats and its not a big hall. I've been in it a fair few times. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"the fact is that there is a border in the north and on the otherside of that border is a place called scotland .... instead of some people in london fucking things up on their behalf the people who live on the otherside of the northern border should be allowed to fuck things up their own way .... same as the people who live the otherside of the western border in a place called wales should be allowed to fuck things up their own way too .... then the group of people in london will be able to devote more time and energy on fucking things up for the people who call themselves the english
Seems fair to me.... lol..
Could that be why The Romans build Adrian´s WALL ?
WAIT a MINUTE ... Is that Plagiarism by Trump...
Its starting to make sense now....
My Roman history is a bit sketchy but I don't seem to recall the Emperor Adrian
14th Roman Emperor Hadrian, Born Publius Aelius Hadrianus
Sorry ! I spelt his name wrong...
Hope that answers your question! "
I did actually realise that.
Just my little joke  |
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"Getting back to the original subject, Kahns comments were about as useful to Labour as was sending Eddie Izzard in a dress to Glasgow to campaign beside Jim Murphy during the last election.
Now I'm not one to complain about guys in dresses (for obvious reasons) but sending a crossdressing comic to a working class city was never going to work and neither was this poorly thought out intervention.
If one thing gets up Scottish noses (and, I suspect, most other parts of the UK north of Watford) is someone coming up from London telling us what we're doing wrong.
He didn't actually say that techie SNP was racist though. He said that division by nation is no better or worthy than division by religion or race.
In itself I can't objectively disagree.
Sending a Londoner up to Scotland to express a political opinion was exceptionally foolish though. 100% correct "
It was leaked in the press that Sadiq Khan's original first draft speech said nationalism was racist. He altered the wording to try to tone it down but his speech still offended people. End result massive foot in mouth by Sadiq Khan and Labour. |
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"Getting back to the original subject, Kahns comments were about as useful to Labour as was sending Eddie Izzard in a dress to Glasgow to campaign beside Jim Murphy during the last election.
Now I'm not one to complain about guys in dresses (for obvious reasons) but sending a crossdressing comic to a working class city was never going to work and neither was this poorly thought out intervention.
If one thing gets up Scottish noses (and, I suspect, most other parts of the UK north of Watford) is someone coming up from London telling us what we're doing wrong.
He didn't actually say that techie SNP was racist though. He said that division by nation is no better or worthy than division by religion or race.
In itself I can't objectively disagree.
Sending a Londoner up to Scotland to express a political opinion was exceptionally foolish though. 100% correct
Oh, I fully appreciate that however that's not the way it came across nor is it the way the SNP will present it.
Irrespective of how Khan and Labour try to backtrack the damage has already been done and the nationalists have another stick to beat Labour with.
The real problem for the SNP in Scotland at the moment is the resurgence of the Tories under Davidson. Labour are a lost cause. I noticed that Corbyns speech to the conference had a substantial number of empty seats and its not a big hall. I've been in it a fair few times."
Just saw clueless Corbyn's speech at Scottish Labour conference on the news, it showed the audience, what a joke, could probably fit more people in a phone box.
Also read in the newspaper today that Teresa May is a more popular leader in Scotland than Jeremy Corbyn. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
It was leaked in the press that Sadiq Khan's original first draft speech said nationalism was racist. He altered the wording to try to tone it down but his speech still offended people. End result massive foot in mouth by Sadiq Khan and Labour. "
Actually, I quoted his original draft. I'll do it again but from a different source.
Khan's initial speech read: "There’s no difference between those who try to divide us on the basis of whether we’re English or Scottish and those who try to divide us on the basis of our background, race or religion."
So I take back what I said as it seems he even refracted that version.
I don't disagree with your assessment of the outcome, but that seems to be a sensationalist interpretation.
Is division by nationality better than by background, religion or race? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
It was leaked in the press that Sadiq Khan's original first draft speech said nationalism was racist. He altered the wording to try to tone it down but his speech still offended people. End result massive foot in mouth by Sadiq Khan and Labour.
Actually, I quoted his original draft. I'll do it again but from a different source.
Khan's initial speech read: "There’s no difference between those who try to divide us on the basis of whether we’re English or Scottish and those who try to divide us on the basis of our background, race or religion."
So I take back what I said as it seems he even refracted that version.
I don't disagree with your assessment of the outcome, but that seems to be a sensationalist interpretation.
Is division by nationality better than by background, religion or race?"
Division will happen regardless, there always seems a desperate desire for hatred
background, religion or race;
walk into any pub in Larkhall, 2 questions will be asked
1; what team do you support
2; what religion are you
Larkhall is a place where the mentality is, that people "paint their grass - blue"
Job centres had to change their "green logo"
and one of a few places where they will support England in a - Scotland v England game, why; because they are British
when you grow up in primary School you grow to hate Tims
pure hatred
.
Nationalism is for many, just another way to express hatred |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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What's wrong with nationalism?.
Since brexit it's become like the new Nazi branding by word for calling people racists.
Oh your a nationalist, sorry your opinion doesn't count because your obviously proud to be welsh,English, Scottish or Irish, your far too proud of your country and culture, language you must be xenophobic  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
It was leaked in the press that Sadiq Khan's original first draft speech said nationalism was racist. He altered the wording to try to tone it down but his speech still offended people. End result massive foot in mouth by Sadiq Khan and Labour.
Actually, I quoted his original draft. I'll do it again but from a different source.
Khan's initial speech read: "There’s no difference between those who try to divide us on the basis of whether we’re English or Scottish and those who try to divide us on the basis of our background, race or religion."
So I take back what I said as it seems he even refracted that version.
I don't disagree with your assessment of the outcome, but that seems to be a sensationalist interpretation.
Is division by nationality better than by background, religion or race?
Division will happen regardless, there always seems a desperate desire for hatred
background, religion or race;
walk into any pub in Larkhall, 2 questions will be asked
1; what team do you support
2; what religion are you
Larkhall is a place where the mentality is, that people "paint their grass - blue"
Job centres had to change their "green logo"
and one of a few places where they will support England in a - Scotland v England game, why; because they are British
when you grow up in primary School you grow to hate Tims
pure hatred
.
Nationalism is for many, just another way to express hatred "
That's why we don't have racism in Scotland.
We have bigotry instead. |
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The SNP are racist but only against one nationality. Quite simply they hate the English.
For whatever reason be it historical (and there are plenty of them living in the past) or modern day politics they just want to blame England, the English and Westminster for all their problems.
Quite happy to take our money though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
The SNP are anti Westminster as they believe that Scotland should have the right to govern itself as its clear to see Scotland didnt vote for the Tories and brexit Scotland and England are going in two different places.
see.. i actually like nicola, and i actually like a lot of their policies... (except for the independence bit)
but this anti westminster thing drives be up the wall.... because last time i checked most of the decisions about how scotland spends money in scotland is decided in holyrood....
education, health, transport, social care, farming, arts, from april you also get taxation (have been able to vary it a bit already), and benefits,
you are basically giving the scottish parliament a free pass... what have they been doing for the last 20 years then... sitting on their asses?
i live just the other side of the border to you guys.... you have much more say over your existance than we do..... "
The snp thrive on the policy of grievance that is why They are so anti Westminster even though the snp mps are totally enjoying every benifit of being there. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The SNP are racist but only against one nationality. Quite simply they hate the English.
For whatever reason be it historical (and there are plenty of them living in the past) or modern day politics they just want to blame England, the English and Westminster for all their problems.
Quite happy to take our money though."
Yeah. That's all so true. Nobody in Scotland pays their taxes. The Whisky industry doesn't contribute the the exchequer. The oil revenue for the past god knows how many decades doesn't amount to anything.
We're all take and no give.
Get real! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The SNP are racist but only against one nationality. Quite simply they hate the English.
For whatever reason be it historical (and there are plenty of them living in the past) or modern day politics they just want to blame England, the English and Westminster for all their problems.
Quite happy to take our money though."
Again for nationalism to work you have to have a " baddie " and that is Westminster.
You are right the snp will blame Westminster for all the problems in Scotland even the areas that they have control over.
Please don't confuse all of Scotland with the snp.
I have English friends who vote snp for different reasons but don't vote for Indy. |
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"The SNP are racist but only against one nationality. Quite simply they hate the English.
For whatever reason be it historical (and there are plenty of them living in the past) or modern day politics they just want to blame England, the English and Westminster for all their problems.
Quite happy to take our money though.
Yeah. That's all so true. Nobody in Scotland pays their taxes. The Whisky industry doesn't contribute the the exchequer. The oil revenue for the past god knows how many decades doesn't amount to anything.
We're all take and no give.
Get real!"
The Barnett formula gives you £1600 per head of population more than English residents.
The SNP fiscal policies leave an annual £15bn shortfall every year.
Why don't you take your begging bowl to the EU?
The sooner the rest of the UK has a referendum to unload Scotland the better.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The SNP are racist but only against one nationality. Quite simply they hate the English.
For whatever reason be it historical (and there are plenty of them living in the past) or modern day politics they just want to blame England, the English and Westminster for all their problems.
Quite happy to take our money though.
Yeah. That's all so true. Nobody in Scotland pays their taxes. The Whisky industry doesn't contribute the the exchequer. The oil revenue for the past god knows how many decades doesn't amount to anything.
We're all take and no give.
Get real!
The Barnett formula gives you £1600 per head of population more than English residents.
The SNP fiscal policies leave an annual £15bn shortfall every year.
Why don't you take your begging bowl to the EU?
The sooner the rest of the UK has a referendum to unload Scotland the better.
"
Bring it on!
I'd happily be shot of the bunch of right wing xenophobic racists that appears to be growing day by day south of the border.
I'd quite happily see you all drown in a morass of middle England thinking brought on by the delusion that you're still the greatest nation on earth |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The SNP are racist but only against one nationality. Quite simply they hate the English.
For whatever reason be it historical (and there are plenty of them living in the past) or modern day politics they just want to blame England, the English and Westminster for all their problems.
Quite happy to take our money though.
Yeah. That's all so true. Nobody in Scotland pays their taxes. The Whisky industry doesn't contribute the the exchequer. The oil revenue for the past god knows how many decades doesn't amount to anything.
We're all take and no give.
Get real!
The Barnett formula gives you £1600 per head of population more than English residents.
The SNP fiscal policies leave an annual £15bn shortfall every year.
Why don't you take your begging bowl to the EU?
The sooner the rest of the UK has a referendum to unload Scotland the better.
Bring it on!
I'd happily be shot of the bunch of right wing xenophobic racists that appears to be growing day by day south of the border.
I'd quite happily see you all drown in a morass of middle England thinking brought on by the delusion that you're still the greatest nation on earth "
Both contributors as bad as each other  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The SNP are racist but only against one nationality. Quite simply they hate the English.
For whatever reason be it historical (and there are plenty of them living in the past) or modern day politics they just want to blame England, the English and Westminster for all their problems.
Quite happy to take our money though.
Yeah. That's all so true. Nobody in Scotland pays their taxes. The Whisky industry doesn't contribute the the exchequer. The oil revenue for the past god knows how many decades doesn't amount to anything.
We're all take and no give.
Get real!
The Barnett formula gives you £1600 per head of population more than English residents.
The SNP fiscal policies leave an annual £15bn shortfall every year.
Why don't you take your begging bowl to the EU?
The sooner the rest of the UK has a referendum to unload Scotland the better.
Bring it on!
I'd happily be shot of the bunch of right wing xenophobic racists that appears to be growing day by day south of the border.
I'd quite happily see you all drown in a morass of middle England thinking brought on by the delusion that you're still the greatest nation on earth
Both contributors as bad as each other "
I'm actually trying for a bit of gallows humour here but perhaps it's not appreciated.
Re the point on the Barnett formulae, I don't dispute that Scots come out of it well but that doesn't make it wrong.
If some faceless bureaucrat works something out to the advantage of a specific group its very unlikely that group is going to say, no thanks, that's way too generous.
Do farmers that have benefited from the CAP for growing nothing turn down their subsidies? Don't think so.
Every area of the UK has, at some time gained EU funding for a variety of projects. Has anyone ever turned it down?
Governments of every shade have attempted to buy votes by subsidising industries and regions out of the public purse.
Don't blame the Scottish people for benefiting from a formulae worked out by our glorious leaders. Use your vote to do something about rather than bitch about an entire nation.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Barnet came into being for two reasons
First the spread of population of Scotland esp the islands which takes greater funding and second was to appease sepratists.
Money was gained from the north in taxes only to be spent on shutting down heavy industry in Scotland by the lovely Mrs Thatcher because we would not vote for her. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Anyone who saw the scenes in george sqare glasgow on the night of the referendum and the night after will know who the real racists are, the unionists with their vile songs and nazi salutes |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Anyone who saw the scenes in george sqare glasgow on the night of the referendum and the night after will know who the real racists are, the unionists with their vile songs and nazi salutes "
yes but this has been bred into Glaswegians since birth with their beloved "King Billy" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I am English born ,but have studied and brought up my family in this wonderful city for many years now, But it has changed where once there was always relatively humorous banter ,it is now often nasty and said with venom. What was once a welcoming city to many has lost that special warmth it had. I am glad my kids have the local accent for there safety.....I am dismayed at how small Scotland feels now...People who can only blame and complain is not the Scotland i have made my home for over 30yrs...Be aware how others see you, it is not good and the rise of nationalism is always a cause for concern no matter which country the nationalists Represent. It is a slippery slope and with Education standards slipping , The NHS in turmoil and god forbid Indy2 on the way the slope steepens
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Im quiet happy here in Scotland, at one with nature & scenery, often sit with a smile on my face and think how lucky I am, to live in such a scenic country, at one with nature
.
life can be good you know, you just need to learn how to live |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Maybe if you "Scottish wankers were not stealing our jobs and robbing us blind" i to would sit back with a smug self satisfied smile on my face.....Oh substitute Scottish for English and you will get an idea of some of the shit your countrymen dish out.......not the friendly inclusive ideal you preach... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Maybe if you "Scottish wankers were not stealing our jobs and robbing us blind" i to would sit back with a smug self satisfied smile on my face.....Oh substitute Scottish for English and you will get an idea of some of the shit your countrymen dish out.......not the friendly inclusive ideal you preach... "
Ive worked with english welsh irish and poles and and never came across any of the kind of hatred you mention |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Maybe if you "Scottish wankers were not stealing our jobs and robbing us blind" i to would sit back with a smug self satisfied smile on my face.....Oh substitute Scottish for English and you will get an idea of some of the shit your countrymen dish out.......not the friendly inclusive ideal you preach...
Ive worked with english welsh irish and poles and and never came across any of the kind of hatred you mention "
You are spot on
Working offshore in the oil industry you work with, and you are friends with all nationalities in the UK
Doesn't matter where you are from if you have the ability to work as a team and you are good at your job.
The biggest problem is working with someone who is incompetent to carry out their work, it is not about where they are from in the UK
As long as the people are professional in their work and approach and as long as they can communicate profoundly in English then a bond and team work evolves.
Remember we not only have to work together but live together for 2 or 3 weeks at a time 24/7 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Oh how lucky you all seem to be...I have lived here a long time and being honest it is not the land it once was....I hold no grudges it is the land of my childrens birth...But to imagine it is the open all inclusive place that a lot of Scots say it is is simply not true, it is riven with sectarian bigotry and is not that welcoming of "Incomers" as i hear from the natives xx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh how lucky you all seem to be...I have lived here a long time and being honest it is not the land it once was....I hold no grudges it is the land of my childrens birth...But to imagine it is the open all inclusive place that a lot of Scots say it is is simply not true, it is riven with sectarian bigotry and is not that welcoming of "Incomers" as i hear from the natives xx"
But that's only because you live on the west coast. Happily, the bigotry that undeniably does exist there is not so evident in the rest of the country. I'm not saying it doesn't exist in other parts of the country but it's nowhere near as evident. The west coast is the only part of the country I've ever see the red hand of ulster flag flying in someones back garden.
Here in beautiful Perthshire, we are exceptionally tolerant of all races, creeds and religions. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh how lucky you all seem to be...I have lived here a long time and being honest it is not the land it once was....I hold no grudges it is the land of my childrens birth...But to imagine it is the open all inclusive place that a lot of Scots say it is is simply not true, it is riven with sectarian bigotry and is not that welcoming of "Incomers" as i hear from the natives xx
But that's only because you live on the west coast. Happily, the bigotry that undeniably does exist there is not so evident in the rest of the country. I'm not saying it doesn't exist in other parts of the country but it's nowhere near as evident. The west coast is the only part of the country I've ever see the red hand of ulster flag flying in someones back garden.
Here in beautiful Perthshire, we are exceptionally tolerant of all races, creeds and religions. "
What does "tolerant" mean?
Oh come on, the amount of Irish that went to Dundee for example, did indeed cause a divide on the east too. So you can't just pin it on the West.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh how lucky you all seem to be...I have lived here a long time and being honest it is not the land it once was....I hold no grudges it is the land of my childrens birth...But to imagine it is the open all inclusive place that a lot of Scots say it is is simply not true, it is riven with sectarian bigotry and is not that welcoming of "Incomers" as i hear from the natives xx"
Nothing wrong with that. Other morally serious countries like Japan and South Korea are still 99% ethnically native. It's only in this part of the world that destroying one's own culture is trendy. You really think importing cultures from the pits of the globe will
Improve our unique and ancient culture... In which THEY want to live in, highlighting it's superiority. |
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By *ercury OP Man
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Oh how lucky you all seem to be...I have lived here a long time and being honest it is not the land it once was....I hold no grudges it is the land of my childrens birth...But to imagine it is the open all inclusive place that a lot of Scots say it is is simply not true, it is riven with sectarian bigotry and is not that welcoming of "Incomers" as i hear from the natives xx
But that's only because you live on the west coast. Happily, the bigotry that undeniably does exist there is not so evident in the rest of the country. I'm not saying it doesn't exist in other parts of the country but it's nowhere near as evident. The west coast is the only part of the country I've ever see the red hand of ulster flag flying in someones back garden.
Here in beautiful Perthshire, we are exceptionally tolerant of all races, creeds and religions. "
Except when a group of my English friends rented a cottage over the New Year, got all excited about celebrating Hogmanay in the traditional Scottish way, went to the local pub and were told in no.uncertain terms to "fuck off". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Sorry Mercury you must be wrong because ......Well because only race tolerant nice people reside in Scotland....The moral high ground is quicksand people, Scots are no or or less tolerant than any other nation..........Some of You just like to think you are, it is called self-delusion |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh how lucky you all seem to be...I have lived here a long time and being honest it is not the land it once was....I hold no grudges it is the land of my childrens birth...But to imagine it is the open all inclusive place that a lot of Scots say it is is simply not true, it is riven with sectarian bigotry and is not that welcoming of "Incomers" as i hear from the natives xx
But that's only because you live on the west coast. Happily, the bigotry that undeniably does exist there is not so evident in the rest of the country. I'm not saying it doesn't exist in other parts of the country but it's nowhere near as evident. The west coast is the only part of the country I've ever see the red hand of ulster flag flying in someones back garden.
Here in beautiful Perthshire, we are exceptionally tolerant of all races, creeds and religions.
What does "tolerant" mean?
Oh come on, the amount of Irish that went to Dundee for example, did indeed cause a divide on the east too. So you can't just pin it on the West.
"
Firstly, Dundee isn't in Perthshire. Secondly, I didn't suggest that bigotry or intolerance doesn't exist. I simply said it was less evident outside the west coast. An old firm game is a prime example.
I fully appreciate that in all major cities there is a problem. It can be bigotry, racism, gang warfare or whatever. That isn't unique to Scotland or Glasgow.
My original post was in reference to bigotry and there can be no denying that it is more promenade on the west coast. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes i agree, the west does have more problems but i also work in Edinburgh and have heard the same religious sayings.....I am also sure most people seem to be aware of the religion of there fellow workers, a situation i never encountered in my time further south.....so the moral high horse is a donkey on quicksand i am afraid to say. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Labour Mayor of London has likened Scottish Nationalist position as being racist.
He has started, aided by the Labour PR team, to backtrack on these remarks.
Was he correct in his assumptions or is this showing Labour to be "out of touch"?
I think he was right about nationalism as it is intended to be divsive, a them and us strategy, I think he did get it wrong calling the SNP racist.
It does call into question though where the roots of nationalism come from, surely ones love of a nation state is a good thing.
But when the love of a nation becomes obsessive, shouldnt that be considered the negative, normally behaviour such as that would be considered abusive even wrong?
Would it stand to reason that Nationalists are obsessive-compulsives which indeed bring out the worst traits in themselves.
Think about it imagine a nationalist stalking its own country hiding in the bushes when it speak to another country and jumps out and accuses its country of cheating on them.
Just putting it out but I am even thinking Nationalists could be considered bunny boilers.
As nationalism is a concept based on supremacy of one over the other...it is something to be abolished , but as such Britain is intoxicated with this concept for centuries of colonialism and exploitation of other people and cultures , first for the good of England and later for the wealth of the wealthy of Great Britain.
All good, make Britain great again
What utter load of lefty BS propaganda !
Nationalism can be defined in many ways , and can also be abused for political or economical purposes , but at its root, it has nothing to do with "a concept based on supremacy of one over the other..."
Its got more to do with :
"The strong belief that the interests of a particular nation-state are of primary importance. Also, the belief that a people who share a common language, history, and culture should constitute an independent nation, free of foreign domination."
Jesus ! Talk about intellectual dishonesty....
Its people like this that contribute to messing up issues, instead of helping clarify them! "
point proven. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Reading the posts obviously you can see the madness of nationalism. The ultimate obsession, the near stalker like mentality.
Nationalism is love turned to hate, and like any abusive relationship, those who abuse believe they are doing it out of love. In actual fact they are not.
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By *onyxptMan
over a year ago
st neots, living in Albufeira-Algarve-Portugal |
"Reading the posts obviously you can see the madness of nationalism. The ultimate obsession, the near stalker like mentality.
Nationalism is love turned to hate, and like any abusive relationship, those who abuse believe they are doing it out of love. In actual fact they are not.
"
Are you not contradicting your own post ?
You express an extreme view of nationalism , as if it was something inherently bad and evil!
Nationalism, like most things in life , has to be had with moderation !
Just because you enjoy a drink now and then , or a pint at the end of the day , does that make you an alcoholic ?
Throughout history nationalism has been exploited for both good and bad ! By freedom fighters and tyrants , by left and right in more recent history !
What do you propose to replace nationalism ?
Multiculturalism ?
How well has that worked !
Two immediate recent examples come to mind, where a concerted effort was made to eliminate nationalism under the banner of something else that was above regional or ethnic differences !
One was the German Reich uniting all peoples of Arian descent, under Hitler!
The other lasted a lot longer , it was a socialist /communist venture called the Soviet Union !
The first lasted less then 10 years and didn't end well, and even caused a world War!
The latter lasted from 1922 to 1991. 
69 years .... but it too failed as all socialist/communist utopias inevitably do!
It too caused death destruction and suffering all over the planet as they try to "export" their "egalitarian" utopia ideology !
With this in mind , I ask what do you propose replacing nationalism with ?
And what nationality are you ? Or dont you have one ?  |
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