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An alternative to Corbyn?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So, given that whilst the two By-elections were not as bad as I thought for labour, they could have been miles better.
Now many people, even those solidly on the left, are taking a hard look at Corbyn and his leadership.
So, for those who are labour voters, or those who are left/center inclined, does Corbyn and his leadership/policies tick the boxes for you?
If there is an issue with one or more, please elaborate.
Finally, if you have a better suggestion, who would you like to see as labour leader? |
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I think for Labour unless Corbyn steps down before that the die is cast for the next GE..
maybe after then someone will appear or it could be a long time on the opposition benches with a rampant Tory party and its policies running riot.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As someone who lives in Scotland and, by tradition and inclination, a Labour voter, I have to say that for some time and certainly for the foreseeable future I have not and will not vote for Labour. The disaster that hit Labour in Scotland at the last election was brought about by a combination of complacency and arrogance. The willingness to believe that their position was insurmountable proved to be way off the mark and the assumption that the traditional Labour vote would turn out was wrong.
People voted for the alternative, in this case the SNP in vast numbers not entirely because of the independence issue but because they believed in a socialist alternative that had proved in the Scottish Parliament to carry out their policies.
Labour will NEVER win a general election unless Scottish voters can be brought back to the fold. There just isn't enough English and Welsh seats for them to win to get past the Torys.
As things stand, that's just not going to happen. The SNP in Scotland have huge popularity and although they may pick up a number of reversals at the next election, it won't be anywhere near enough to see Labour in government.
An alternative to Corbyn is urgently needed. He is seen as London-centric and deeply unpopular in Scotland and, I suspect, the North of England. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think for Labour unless Corbyn steps down before that the die is cast for the next GE..
maybe after then someone will appear or it could be a long time on the opposition benches with a rampant Tory party and its policies running riot.."
So whilst from your perspective the chances of Corbyn getting labour into a more threatening opposition party/winning a GE are slim, you cannot see someone in the present who could take over his leadership?
Cause therein lies a problem, apparently voters on't like chaotic parties, getting rid of corbyn, putting a new person in, then replacing them with the ideal, just creates more instability.
Btw, why don't you think labour can win under JC? His leadership, him personally, his policies, or a combo? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"As someone who lives in Scotland and, by tradition and inclination, a Labour voter, I have to say that for some time and certainly for the foreseeable future I have not and will not vote for Labour. The disaster that hit Labour in Scotland at the last election was brought about by a combination of complacency and arrogance. The willingness to believe that their position was insurmountable proved to be way off the mark and the assumption that the traditional Labour vote would turn out was wrong.
People voted for the alternative, in this case the SNP in vast numbers not entirely because of the independence issue but because they believed in a socialist alternative that had proved in the Scottish Parliament to carry out their policies.
Labour will NEVER win a general election unless Scottish voters can be brought back to the fold. There just isn't enough English and Welsh seats for them to win to get past the Torys.
As things stand, that's just not going to happen. The SNP in Scotland have huge popularity and although they may pick up a number of reversals at the next election, it won't be anywhere near enough to see Labour in government.
An alternative to Corbyn is urgently needed. He is seen as London-centric and deeply unpopular in Scotland and, I suspect, the North of England."
So your advise is for labour to reform, bide it's time, wait for the SNP vote to stagnate, and in the meantime focus on securing Wales, the Northern and Midland seats, and trying to eat into some of the weaker tory seats?
For you is it JC, his leadership, or policies you don't buy into?
As for his support in the North and Midlands, see a lot of people loving and disagreeing with him at the same time. For example they see him as being very strong on the NHS, mental health, social care, redeveloping key infrastructure across the UK.
But then it's things like how he wont openly come out on TV and say that low skill immigration doesn't benefit the average person, or for example, how he is completely anti-nuclear energy (not that I'm fond of it) and doesn't seem to want to visit pro-nuclear areas and try to convince or compromise with the public. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think for Labour unless Corbyn steps down before that the die is cast for the next GE..
maybe after then someone will appear or it could be a long time on the opposition benches with a rampant Tory party and its policies running riot..
So whilst from your perspective the chances of Corbyn getting labour into a more threatening opposition party/winning a GE are slim, you cannot see someone in the present who could take over his leadership?
Cause therein lies a problem, apparently voters on't like chaotic parties, getting rid of corbyn, putting a new person in, then replacing them with the ideal, just creates more instability.
Btw, why don't you think labour can win under JC? His leadership, him personally, his policies, or a combo?"
I have a certain degree of sympathy for him. I believe he is an idealist but his ideals are not necessarily what the voters want.
I'm old enough to remember when Michael Foot was leader of the Labour party and consider him to be the best Prime Minister this country never had. Sadly he too was an idealist and was un-electable. Foot was hugely popular with Labour grass roots but that popularity never converted into votes.
Frankly, it's hard to see anyone in the Labour party with the nous and popularity that could take his place. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Corbyn lacks personality.In this celebrity age labour must play the game differntly.Old school ideologues are not what the electorate are looking for.Style over substance will win the day.A young fiery female Labour leader would be my choice. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
For you is it JC, his leadership, or policies you don't buy into?
"
I see him as a serious conundrum. In many ways, he's a great communicator on certain policies but at the same time, he can be rubbish and today, reflecting on the results is one of them.
I get VERY mixed messages from him. One day I believe in him, the next, he sounds like he's lost the plot.
Until he sorts himself out, I can't see myself voting Labour again. |
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"I think for Labour unless Corbyn steps down before that the die is cast for the next GE..
maybe after then someone will appear or it could be a long time on the opposition benches with a rampant Tory party and its policies running riot..
So whilst from your perspective the chances of Corbyn getting labour into a more threatening opposition party/winning a GE are slim, you cannot see someone in the present who could take over his leadership?
Cause therein lies a problem, apparently voters on't like chaotic parties, getting rid of corbyn, putting a new person in, then replacing them with the ideal, just creates more instability.
Btw, why don't you think labour can win under JC? His leadership, him personally, his policies, or a combo?"
i don't think anyone will challenge him openly, he has a mandate to be leader. Dan Jarvis, Heidi Alexander and some others have the potential when that time comes if they choose to run..
I agree with Corbyn on a lot of old left issue's such as taking back the rail network and our utilities but and therein lies the crux of it he is not ever going to be accepted by the centre of the population needed to swing from the Tories to Labour under his leadership..
i actually like him as a politician as he has stood to his principles for decades and not swam with the PLP wannabe sharp suited ex graduates look a likes..
Blair for all his failings knew this and moved them over to take the centre which is where the votes needed to get into Government lie..
that is roughly how it is now despite the austerity of the last several years, were it will be in 2024 is another matter.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Bring back tony blair, the downfall of labour was when he got bullied into giving gordon brown the position in 97 
Lol, your posts are always good for a laugh Shag.  "
That is good lol |
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I like Corbyn, I like a good chunk (I'll never agree with a person 100%) of what he says and stands for.
I think, however, that his credibility has been eroded by his own mistakes, by the party around him, and by the extremely hostile media.
So whilst I think he is probably the type of politician we actually need, he is not the politician that people want.
I quite like Clive Lewis, and he has a more populist appeal that is needed in the X-Factor version of politics we have now. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I like Corbyn, I like a good chunk (I'll never agree with a person 100%) of what he says and stands for.
I think, however, that his credibility has been eroded by his own mistakes, by the party around him, and by the extremely hostile media.
So whilst I think he is probably the type of politician we actually need, he is not the politician that people want.
I quite like Clive Lewis, and he has a more populist appeal that is needed in the X-Factor version of politics we have now."
So perhaps Dan Jarvis or Clive Lewis might be able to get that left leaning politics, with a populist image across.
I mean both were in the services right? Which kind of gives a patriotic, populist appeal? Neither are blairite? I remember reading something about Dan trying to distance himself from Blair? |
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"I like Corbyn, I like a good chunk (I'll never agree with a person 100%) of what he says and stands for.
I think, however, that his credibility has been eroded by his own mistakes, by the party around him, and by the extremely hostile media.
So whilst I think he is probably the type of politician we actually need, he is not the politician that people want.
I quite like Clive Lewis, and he has a more populist appeal that is needed in the X-Factor version of politics we have now.
So perhaps Dan Jarvis or Clive Lewis might be able to get that left leaning politics, with a populist image across.
I mean both were in the services right? Which kind of gives a patriotic, populist appeal? Neither are blairite? I remember reading something about Dan trying to distance himself from Blair?"
Certainly make it harder for the Mail to call them a traitor... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I think for Labour unless Corbyn steps down before that the die is cast for the next GE..
maybe after then someone will appear or it could be a long time on the opposition benches with a rampant Tory party and its policies running riot..
So whilst from your perspective the chances of Corbyn getting labour into a more threatening opposition party/winning a GE are slim, you cannot see someone in the present who could take over his leadership?
Cause therein lies a problem, apparently voters on't like chaotic parties, getting rid of corbyn, putting a new person in, then replacing them with the ideal, just creates more instability.
Btw, why don't you think labour can win under JC? His leadership, him personally, his policies, or a combo?
i don't think anyone will challenge him openly, he has a mandate to be leader. Dan Jarvis, Heidi Alexander and some others have the potential when that time comes if they choose to run..
I agree with Corbyn on a lot of old left issue's such as taking back the rail network and our utilities but and therein lies the crux of it he is not ever going to be accepted by the centre of the population needed to swing from the Tories to Labour under his leadership..
i actually like him as a politician as he has stood to his principles for decades and not swam with the PLP wannabe sharp suited ex graduates look a likes..
Blair for all his failings knew this and moved them over to take the centre which is where the votes needed to get into Government lie..
that is roughly how it is now despite the austerity of the last several years, were it will be in 2024 is another matter.."
This is the thing I hear so much, a lot of people like JC for his principles and actually having some good policies about investing in the country an not being pro-austerity.
A lot of people say that its just when he blunders, it's catastrophic for him. Or there are a few issues which are too left for them to vote for.
So in principle, for the left and centre left, JC's policies are good, it just seems he needs to pull himself a little to the centre on a few issues? And try to stop cocking up on the odd occasion?
My big criticism is that he needs to make more noise and get a bigger appearance on the BBC, channel 4 and Sky, a lot of people like him as he gets involved in protests, he needs to be seen to be more aggressive in his attacks against the tories, in public and TV. At least that is a view of mine and a lot of others. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I like Corbyn, I like a good chunk (I'll never agree with a person 100%) of what he says and stands for.
I think, however, that his credibility has been eroded by his own mistakes, by the party around him, and by the extremely hostile media.
So whilst I think he is probably the type of politician we actually need, he is not the politician that people want.
I quite like Clive Lewis, and he has a more populist appeal that is needed in the X-Factor version of politics we have now.
So perhaps Dan Jarvis or Clive Lewis might be able to get that left leaning politics, with a populist image across.
I mean both were in the services right? Which kind of gives a patriotic, populist appeal? Neither are blairite? I remember reading something about Dan trying to distance himself from Blair?
Certainly make it harder for the Mail to call them a traitor..."
Haha I thought that. :P |
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Labour is on the horns of a dilemma, with no hope in sight.
Corbyn rebuffed the recent challenge with the support of the new members and any new challenge would be destined to fail, for as long as his base continues to support him.
I would expect quite a number of labour MP's, seeing the writing on the wall, to follow Hunt's example and look towards alternative employment options, before the next GE dumps many of them onto the jobseeker market.
It looks like labour will be spending several parliamentary terms in the wilderness.
No purpose, no cohesion, no talent, no relevance.....this parrot is dead; it just doesn't know it yet. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Labour is on the horns of a dilemma, with no hope in sight.
Corbyn rebuffed the recent challenge with the support of the new members and any new challenge would be destined to fail, for as long as his base continues to support him.
I would expect quite a number of labour MP's, seeing the writing on the wall, to follow Hunt's example and look towards alternative employment options, before the next GE dumps many of them onto the jobseeker market.
It looks like labour will be spending several parliamentary terms in the wilderness.
No purpose, no cohesion, no talent, no relevance.....this parrot is dead; it just doesn't know it yet."
Idk, I think many may hold on yet. I actuslly believe many of the old, new labour lot will probably try to find a way to come across as a strong left wing party, whilst seeking a way to reach back into the centre.
If they hope to remain and come back into politics, they know jumping a sinking ship wont get them anywhere. |
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