FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > The Truth About Sweden
The Truth About Sweden
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPtNON6sHXw Is this fact based or opinion based? is this right wings truth or just truth? " Paul Joseph Watson. Enough said. As I mentioned on a previous thread, he decided to illustrate the 'offer' he put out with a series of images supposedly to depict how bad it was... apart from 3 of the 4 photos were from right wing extremists attacking immigrants. I would guess sending a camera crew into most (white, british) violent council estates in the UK and you'd also get people not wanting you filming. -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPtNON6sHXw Is this fact based or opinion based? is this right wings truth or just truth? why enough said? 12 min vid and you reply after 6mins, so you no idea about its content, this is the problem with opinions getting in the way of facts. i watch left and right and liberals. pjw always provides his truth and his facts for people to make up there own minds, but to do that you would have to watch it i guess Paul Joseph Watson. Enough said. As I mentioned on a previous thread, he decided to illustrate the 'offer' he put out with a series of images supposedly to depict how bad it was... apart from 3 of the 4 photos were from right wing extremists attacking immigrants. I would guess sending a camera crew into most (white, british) violent council estates in the UK and you'd also get people not wanting you filming. -Matt" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"again... funtimes... since you didn't answer what matt actually said... we can try it again.... So, some right wing blowhard Paul Watson offered to pay for tickets and accommodation for any journos wanting to see what Malmo was actually like. Fair enough. But in response to the flood of offers he got taking him up he tweeted a series of 4 pics along with: "All you lefty idiots accepting a “trip to Sweden”. Can you read? I said you’d be staying here. Good luck. " only the 4 pics he decided to illustrate his point with were looked up and mostly identified: First pic: 2008 story about a Polish far-right group planning to attack immigrants. Second pic: It's a 2009 protest about Israel competing in the Davis Cup. No immigrants here. Third pic: no source found. Could be anything. Fourth pic: 2008 story about student squatters angry about lack of affordable housing. No immigration angle. Whether his point on Malmo is true or not, I really don't see why he sees the need to use irrelevant and misleading pics to try and prove his point. I mean, if he actually had any conviction he wouldn't need to lie about it all. He has since deleted his tweet now as clearly showing himself off to be a complete idiot. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/paul-joseph-watson-twitter-sweden-trip_uk_58ab04f6e4b037d17d29b00a" thats not this video, im asking if its right wing truth or just truth. not hear to defend somebody i have no thoughts on, other than his video has some very serious content that needs discussing not shutting down if was going to only watch people who never make mistakes, then be nobody to watch | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"again... funtimes... since you didn't answer what matt actually said... we can try it again.... So, some right wing blowhard Paul Watson offered to pay for tickets and accommodation for any journos wanting to see what Malmo was actually like. Fair enough. But in response to the flood of offers he got taking him up he tweeted a series of 4 pics along with: "All you lefty idiots accepting a “trip to Sweden”. Can you read? I said you’d be staying here. Good luck. " only the 4 pics he decided to illustrate his point with were looked up and mostly identified: First pic: 2008 story about a Polish far-right group planning to attack immigrants. Second pic: It's a 2009 protest about Israel competing in the Davis Cup. No immigrants here. Third pic: no source found. Could be anything. Fourth pic: 2008 story about student squatters angry about lack of affordable housing. No immigration angle. Whether his point on Malmo is true or not, I really don't see why he sees the need to use irrelevant and misleading pics to try and prove his point. I mean, if he actually had any conviction he wouldn't need to lie about it all. He has since deleted his tweet now as clearly showing himself off to be a complete idiot. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/paul-joseph-watson-twitter-sweden-trip_uk_58ab04f6e4b037d17d29b00a thats not this video, im asking if its right wing truth or just truth. not hear to defend somebody i have no thoughts on, other than his video has some very serious content that needs discussing not shutting down if was going to only watch people who never make mistakes, then be nobody to watch " Yes, the video has a lot of very serious points in it. But you have to always look at the context of information. If there is someone telling you something and they repeatedly lie or mis-represent things, how do you react to what they say? You think that when searching for photos to illustrate his challenge he deliberately picked photos that were actually capturing the opposite of what he was trying to push? e.g. a photo of an immigrant community centre being attacked by militant right wing extremists? Or do you think he went to Google Images and typed in "Sweden" and picked the first 4 he saw? Hint: both are bad... one is deliberately seeking to mis-represent. The other is proof that picking a bunch of random images and them turning out to represent your opposite view possibly means your view isn't as widespread as you think. Then going on to spout shit statistics to attempt to justify something... again... if you actually understand the statistics the represent the opposite of what he is saying. If you are saying that 90% of a population is a certain demographic, then say that the majority of crimes reported in that area are from that demographic, then that make sense. If the majority of the crimes were *not* from that demographic then you should be concerned, as that means that they are being committed from another demographic. ie. if less than 90% of crimes committed in the area in question are from muslim immigrants then it means that muslim immigrants are committing a *lower* than average number of crimes for their population density. ie. if you see "80% of crimes are by muslim immigrants" in an area that is 90% muslim immigrants, then that means that muslim immigrants are committing *less* crime than average. I'm not saying everything is roses and unicorn farts in Sweden right now. Far from it. What I am saying is that the situation is being used by the likes of Paul Watson, Trump, etc to further their own agenda. Does Trump give a fuck what is going on in Sweden? Hell no... he just wants to use it as an aid to justify his own shitty policies. -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"that the same person who posted it to youtube and is speaking in the video...... so yes... it is all connected... its alt right truth..... and if that is what you want to believe, then you are going to believe it... i am just saying that the "source" for your truth has been discredited more than once...." my truth..... and when i put that its my truth lol, i was asking if its true. i no idea about Sweden, not like i have about uk and usa, thats why i could pick trump so easy to win from the start. as for sweden i couldnt even tell you about a place never mind its full problems, HENCE is it the truth or not you no idea who i like or follow, all i ever do is say what i see going on. and if any truth to that vid i want to no by people who have watched it fully and then contribute to its content and i real hope it can all be debunked or Sweden is doomed, until then my truth in predictions has been better than most | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"that the same person who posted it to youtube and is speaking in the video...... so yes... it is all connected... its alt right truth..... and if that is what you want to believe, then you are going to believe it... i am just saying that the "source" for your truth has been discredited more than once.... my truth..... and when i put that its my truth lol, i was asking if its true. i no idea about Sweden, not like i have about uk and usa, thats why i could pick trump so easy to win from the start. as for sweden i couldnt even tell you about a place never mind its full problems, HENCE is it the truth or not you no idea who i like or follow, all i ever do is say what i see going on. and if any truth to that vid i want to no by people who have watched it fully and then contribute to its content and i real hope it can all be debunked or Sweden is doomed, until then my truth in predictions has been better than most " I have watched the video fully, and my personal view is that there may be elements of truth in the video, but that overall it uses bad statistics and information out of context to exaggerate a point in order to promote the author's agenda of right wing white supremacy. -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"again... funtimes... since you didn't answer what matt actually said... we can try it again.... So, some right wing blowhard Paul Watson offered to pay for tickets and accommodation for any journos wanting to see what Malmo was actually like. Fair enough. But in response to the flood of offers he got taking him up he tweeted a series of 4 pics along with: "All you lefty idiots accepting a “trip to Sweden”. Can you read? I said you’d be staying here. Good luck. " only the 4 pics he decided to illustrate his point with were looked up and mostly identified: First pic: 2008 story about a Polish far-right group planning to attack immigrants. Second pic: It's a 2009 protest about Israel competing in the Davis Cup. No immigrants here. Third pic: no source found. Could be anything. Fourth pic: 2008 story about student squatters angry about lack of affordable housing. No immigration angle. Whether his point on Malmo is true or not, I really don't see why he sees the need to use irrelevant and misleading pics to try and prove his point. I mean, if he actually had any conviction he wouldn't need to lie about it all. He has since deleted his tweet now as clearly showing himself off to be a complete idiot. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/paul-joseph-watson-twitter-sweden-trip_uk_58ab04f6e4b037d17d29b00a thats not this video, im asking if its right wing truth or just truth. not hear to defend somebody i have no thoughts on, other than his video has some very serious content that needs discussing not shutting down if was going to only watch people who never make mistakes, then be nobody to watch Yes, the video has a lot of very serious points in it. But you have to always look at the context of information. If there is someone telling you something and they repeatedly lie or mis-represent things, how do you react to what they say? You think that when searching for photos to illustrate his challenge he deliberately picked photos that were actually capturing the opposite of what he was trying to push? e.g. a photo of an immigrant community centre being attacked by militant right wing extremists? Or do you think he went to Google Images and typed in "Sweden" and picked the first 4 he saw? Hint: both are bad... one is deliberately seeking to mis-represent. The other is proof that picking a bunch of random images and them turning out to represent your opposite view possibly means your view isn't as widespread as you think. Then going on to spout shit statistics to attempt to justify something... again... if you actually understand the statistics the represent the opposite of what he is saying. If you are saying that 90% of a population is a certain demographic, then say that the majority of crimes reported in that area are from that demographic, then that make sense. If the majority of the crimes were *not* from that demographic then you should be concerned, as that means that they are being committed from another demographic. ie. if less than 90% of crimes committed in the area in question are from muslim immigrants then it means that muslim immigrants are committing a *lower* than average number of crimes for their population density. ie. if you see "80% of crimes are by muslim immigrants" in an area that is 90% muslim immigrants, then that means that muslim immigrants are committing *less* crime than average. I'm not saying everything is roses and unicorn farts in Sweden right now. Far from it. What I am saying is that the situation is being used by the likes of Paul Watson, Trump, etc to further their own agenda. Does Trump give a fuck what is going on in Sweden? Hell no... he just wants to use it as an aid to justify his own shitty policies. -Matt" agree about using photos to mislead is a bad thing, MSM do it all the time thats media aiming for click bait which i fully agree should be stamped out. pjw was wrong to do that, just been reading about it and its naughty. The content of the vid has shocked me, and im not easy shocked. i always thought Sweden was safe crime free place, now its rape capital of Europe and all in past few years plus the footage of camera crews being ran over and punched is beyond belief. they guests in the country, you would think they would be happy to be filmed and show how happy they are the country has taken them in. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"again... funtimes... since you didn't answer what matt actually said... we can try it again.... So, some right wing blowhard Paul Watson offered to pay for tickets and accommodation for any journos wanting to see what Malmo was actually like. Fair enough. But in response to the flood of offers he got taking him up he tweeted a series of 4 pics along with: "All you lefty idiots accepting a “trip to Sweden”. Can you read? I said you’d be staying here. Good luck. " only the 4 pics he decided to illustrate his point with were looked up and mostly identified: First pic: 2008 story about a Polish far-right group planning to attack immigrants. Second pic: It's a 2009 protest about Israel competing in the Davis Cup. No immigrants here. Third pic: no source found. Could be anything. Fourth pic: 2008 story about student squatters angry about lack of affordable housing. No immigration angle. Whether his point on Malmo is true or not, I really don't see why he sees the need to use irrelevant and misleading pics to try and prove his point. I mean, if he actually had any conviction he wouldn't need to lie about it all. He has since deleted his tweet now as clearly showing himself off to be a complete idiot. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/paul-joseph-watson-twitter-sweden-trip_uk_58ab04f6e4b037d17d29b00a thats not this video, im asking if its right wing truth or just truth. not hear to defend somebody i have no thoughts on, other than his video has some very serious content that needs discussing not shutting down if was going to only watch people who never make mistakes, then be nobody to watch " If you refer to the initial video, the answer is yes , although its a collage of bits of other longer vids, its real! Its real, an its actually worse ! You right about wondering if this is right wing truth or just the truth ! I say it is the truth , that for a long time in Sweden has been censored by the state and the mainstream media ! The truth should not be left or right, it should be able to stand absent of politics ! To prove my point here are some vids , so you can decide for yourself ! Censorship by the state : Ever heard of Swedish police code 291 ? This Vid is done by a muslim ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15gDRLkYvbU Here is another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9MjN6fh1z0 To put in context ; https://www.youtube.com /watch?v=3KSJY0c8QWw And this happened a year ago : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KSJY0c8QWw So.. you decide  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"pjw was wrong to do that, just been reading about it and its naughty. The content of the vid has shocked me, and im not easy shocked. i always thought Sweden was safe crime free place, now its rape capital of Europe and all in past few years plus the footage of camera crews being ran over and punched is beyond belief. they guests in the country, you would think they would be happy to be filmed and show how happy they are the country has taken them in. " OK, look I'm trying to just justify things here, but please look deeper into some of the stats there. "Rape capitol of Europe"... be aware that that may not be what you think... e.g. "As for the specific issue of rape, there was a 13 percent one-year increase in the number of reported rapes, which totaled 6,560 in 2016, according to preliminary numbers from the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention. But that total is slightly lower than reported rapes in 2014 and about the same as the number in 2011." So in 5 years, the number of rapes has not increased. "2006, a year after the country passed a law expanding its definition of rape to include cases in which a victim is intoxicated or asleep. The yearly number gradually increased through 2011 and has fluctuated in recent years." In 2006 the definition of rape changed. and... "On the face of it, it would seem Sweden is a much more dangerous place” than other countries, the BBC wrote. But, Klara Selin, a sociologist at the National Council for Crime Prevention, told the news organization that the difference could be attributed to the way Sweden documents rape – if a woman reports being raped multiple times by her husband that’s recorded as multiple rapes, for instance, not just one report – and the culture in the country, which encourages women to report such crimes. “[T]he major explanation is partly that people go to the police more often,” Selin told the BBC, and yet another factor was the broadening of the definition of rape in the 2005 legislation." All from a fact checking site found if you do a cursory search for info online about the stats. Nothing is black or white, and especially with stats you have to look at exactly how they are collated and definitions of what is being counted. But hopefully above is enough information to make you at least question the numbers you have so far seen, and think about them further. -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Those that denys what is happening there is mostly liberals and lefties." Hej Jonas ! 
No ! its not happening, and as a Swede what you wouldnt know about Swedish reality
All the PC lefties on here know better !
Lets not forget that in Sweden you would be harassed probably loose your job , and have your car burned !
All because you dare to state the truth !
Oh and lets not forget you are a white Nazi supremacist too !  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Those that denys what is happening there is mostly liberals and lefties. Hej Jonas !
No ! its not happening, and as a Swede what you wouldnt know about Swedish reality
All the PC lefties on here know better !
Lets not forget that in Sweden you would be harassed probably loose your job , and have your car burned !
All because you dare to state the truth !
Oh and lets not forget you are a white Nazi supremacist too ! "I take it you are a liberal and it is happening  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Those that denys what is happening there is mostly liberals and lefties. Hej Jonas !
No ! its not happening, and as a Swede what you wouldnt know about Swedish reality
All the PC lefties on here know better !
Lets not forget that in Sweden you would be harassed probably loose your job , and have your car burned !
All because you dare to state the truth !
Oh and lets not forget you are a white Nazi supremacist too ! I take it you are a liberal and it is happening "Hej Jonas ! NO lol.... I know it is Happening ! I was being ironic 
I have been to Rinkebi !
My son lives close by !
Me liberal
Please... don't offend me | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Those that denys what is happening there is mostly liberals and lefties. Hej Jonas !
No ! its not happening, and as a Swede what you wouldnt know about Swedish reality
All the PC lefties on here know better !
Lets not forget that in Sweden you would be harassed probably loose your job , and have your car burned !
All because you dare to state the truth !
Oh and lets not forget you are a white Nazi supremacist too ! I take it you are a liberal and it is happening
Hej Jonas ! NO lol....
I know it is Happening !
I was being ironic
I have been to Rinkebi !
My son lives close by !
Me liberal
Please... don't offend me "That is good you have, that area is the same one in malmo called rosengard, notorious for its no go zones. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Those that denys what is happening there is mostly liberals and lefties. Hej Jonas !
No ! its not happening, and as a Swede what you wouldnt know about Swedish reality
All the PC lefties on here know better !
Lets not forget that in Sweden you would be harassed probably loose your job , and have your car burned !
All because you dare to state the truth !
Oh and lets not forget you are a white Nazi supremacist too ! I take it you are a liberal and it is happening
Hej Jonas ! NO lol....
I know it is Happening !
I was being ironic
I have been to Rinkebi !
My son lives close by !
Me liberal
Please... don't offend me That is good you have, that area is the same one in malmo called rosengard, notorious for its no go zones."Yes... Rosengard and Rinkeby  only two no go zones out of....55 or more depending on the source
Welcome to Sweden...oops sorry
Absurdistan ! lol... I didn't make that up !
This Woman did
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiodZctX2TY
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"pjw was wrong to do that, just been reading about it and its naughty. The content of the vid has shocked me, and im not easy shocked. i always thought Sweden was safe crime free place, now its rape capital of Europe and all in past few years plus the footage of camera crews being ran over and punched is beyond belief. they guests in the country, you would think they would be happy to be filmed and show how happy they are the country has taken them in. OK, look I'm trying to just justify things here, but please look deeper into some of the stats there. "Rape capitol of Europe"... be aware that that may not be what you think... e.g. "As for the specific issue of rape, there was a 13 percent one-year increase in the number of reported rapes, which totaled 6,560 in 2016, according to preliminary numbers from the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention. But that total is slightly lower than reported rapes in 2014 and about the same as the number in 2011." So in 5 years, the number of rapes has not increased. "2006, a year after the country passed a law expanding its definition of rape to include cases in which a victim is intoxicated or asleep. The yearly number gradually increased through 2011 and has fluctuated in recent years." In 2006 the definition of rape changed. and... "On the face of it, it would seem Sweden is a much more dangerous place” than other countries, the BBC wrote. But, Klara Selin, a sociologist at the National Council for Crime Prevention, told the news organization that the difference could be attributed to the way Sweden documents rape – if a woman reports being raped multiple times by her husband that’s recorded as multiple rapes, for instance, not just one report – and the culture in the country, which encourages women to report such crimes. “[T]he major explanation is partly that people go to the police more often,” Selin told the BBC, and yet another factor was the broadening of the definition of rape in the 2005 legislation." All from a fact checking site found if you do a cursory search for info online about the stats. Nothing is black or white, and especially with stats you have to look at exactly how they are collated and definitions of what is being counted. But hopefully above is enough information to make you at least question the numbers you have so far seen, and think about them further. -Matt " can see why its easy to make it look like 300% increase more clear now. maybe we should start demanding such horrific things as rape be fully covered, and stop covering it up like they do in UK. past hour seen some disturbing stats. and i have always been aware how stats and polls are to be taken with pinch of salt depending on who gathered the information, either way they all real bad compared to say 10 years ago.... but that falls into how they now say they record them which you brought to light which is whole point of the thread | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
.
More power to the disabled I say! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We've got two people on the thread who know the place first hand saying there is a major problem. There are a number of youtube videos showing riots, film crews being attacked and police officers saying they will not go into muslim no-go areas. And to cap it Sweden's 'feminist' government dressed up as slaves and went to Tehran to grovel before the ayatollah. But the conclusion drawn here...is that it's all a right-wing plot!? Well, from the videos I've seen...NOT available on the BBC, Sky or anywhere else in the mainstream media, unidentified, muslim 'asylum seekers' are turning parts of Sweden into the same carbon copy islamo-fascist, misogynist dungheaps they've just left." You never seem to have any problem finding the fuel to feed your hyperactive fears. Do you not even feel slightly concerned that it is only right wing extremists who are telling the world of the horrors that are befalling Sweden? I mean it is not like ordinary people, groups, councils, States and the government are broadcasting this shit. It is verging on the criminally insane that people will go out of their way to find things that support an ideology that is founded on hatred and fear and worse, that others will actually fabricate "news" knowing that there are people out there who will swallow it up as concrete fact for no other reason than they want to believe it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We've got two people on the thread who know the place first hand saying there is a major problem. There are a number of youtube videos showing riots, film crews being attacked and police officers saying they will not go into muslim no-go areas. And to cap it Sweden's 'feminist' government dressed up as slaves and went to Tehran to grovel before the ayatollah. But the conclusion drawn here...is that it's all a right-wing plot!? Well, from the videos I've seen...NOT available on the BBC, Sky or anywhere else in the mainstream media, unidentified, muslim 'asylum seekers' are turning parts of Sweden into the same carbon copy islamo-fascist, misogynist dungheaps they've just left." we have had censored news for years, or out right bullshit from the news. no question about alt media taking over now, hence why they attacking pewdiepie, 53 million subs, he reaches more minds than all MSM combined and nobody pulling his strings, they are soon going to be thing of the past unless they start being reporters once again and covering things with no bias or government agenda | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I started watching it but then just as the fight was kicking off, some old geezer in a disabled buggy ran the bad guy over good style. I couldn't watch the rest for heavy giggling .
More power to the disabled I say!"Yes...the disabled old geezer is probably from a generation where good, respect for others,and values matter ! How sad is it that amongst all present there, he was the only one who had the balls to do something about it
The tragedy of a lot of these old , retired Swedes who own a home they bought 30 or 40 years ago in a decent peaceful neighbourhood, Have now see it invaded and taken over by this Scum  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Those that denys what is happening there is mostly liberals and lefties." ....  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We've got two people on the thread who know the place first hand saying there is a major problem. There are a number of youtube videos showing riots, film crews being attacked and police officers saying they will not go into muslim no-go areas. And to cap it Sweden's 'feminist' government dressed up as slaves and went to Tehran to grovel before the ayatollah. But the conclusion drawn here...is that it's all a right-wing plot!? Well, from the videos I've seen...NOT available on the BBC, Sky or anywhere else in the mainstream media, unidentified, muslim 'asylum seekers' are turning parts of Sweden into the same carbon copy islamo-fascist, misogynist dungheaps they've just left." ... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We've got two people on the thread who know the place first hand saying there is a major problem. There are a number of youtube videos showing riots, film crews being attacked and police officers saying they will not go into muslim no-go areas. And to cap it Sweden's 'feminist' government dressed up as slaves and went to Tehran to grovel before the ayatollah. But the conclusion drawn here...is that it's all a right-wing plot!? Well, from the videos I've seen...NOT available on the BBC, Sky or anywhere else in the mainstream media, unidentified, muslim 'asylum seekers' are turning parts of Sweden into the same carbon copy islamo-fascist, misogynist dungheaps they've just left. You never seem to have any problem finding the fuel to feed your hyperactive fears. Do you not even feel slightly concerned that it is only right wing extremists who are telling the world of the horrors that are befalling Sweden? I mean it is not like ordinary people, groups, councils, States and the government are broadcasting this shit. It is verging on the criminally insane that people will go out of their way to find things that support an ideology that is founded on hatred and fear and worse, that others will actually fabricate "news" knowing that there are people out there who will swallow it up as concrete fact for no other reason than they want to believe it." Really
Am I, or ShagTonight not "ordinary people", as you put it !
So what are we then....I´m curious ?
"I mean it is not like ordinary people, groups, councils, States and the government are broadcasting this shit."
Simple ! CENSORSHIP
Its YOU that is putting ideology before facts !
Its you that chooses to be deaf, dumb and Blind.
And history proves that to be a dangerous thing !
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Those that denys what is happening there is mostly liberals and lefties." I actually lived in Malmo 3 years ago for 6 months - granted its not a life time, and I was at the local uni for a research posting, working a huge amount of the time. Yet I never really saw the excessive violence that is claimed to be a regular occurrence. I noticed that in some areas that - admittedly looked like British council estates, there were people who were loud, rude, seemed a bit aggressive. But then I just kind of shrugged that off, all societies have groups of bad eggs, and I grew up on a shit council estate so I know how to deal with those who intimidate or threaten/do attack people. If you went to poor council estates in Britain and shoved a camera in angry, frustrated, young and old men's faces, you'd probably get a similar amount of crap from them. What I'm trying to say, is they seem like they are looking for trouble. They look like they are aiming to provoke a certain response. Ask any cocky teenager and they'd tell you that they could get the same response from chavs if they wanted. That said, I do believe that our nation and a lot of the western nations, need to get stricter on punishment and reforming individuals who engage in criminal activity. From both national, and migrant backgrounds. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We've got two people on the thread who know the place first hand saying there is a major problem. There are a number of youtube videos showing riots, film crews being attacked and police officers saying they will not go into muslim no-go areas. And to cap it Sweden's 'feminist' government dressed up as slaves and went to Tehran to grovel before the ayatollah. But the conclusion drawn here...is that it's all a right-wing plot!? Well, from the videos I've seen...NOT available on the BBC, Sky or anywhere else in the mainstream media, unidentified, muslim 'asylum seekers' are turning parts of Sweden into the same carbon copy islamo-fascist, misogynist dungheaps they've just left. we have had censored news for years, or out right bullshit from the news. no question about alt media taking over now, hence why they attacking pewdiepie, 53 million subs, he reaches more minds than all MSM combined and nobody pulling his strings, they are soon going to be thing of the past unless they start being reporters once again and covering things with no bias or government agenda "
Thank you, someone finally acknowledges that the media and press have almost always had a vested interest/bias.
Just so happens, as political views, both left and right become ever more polarised, so does the medias reporting and protest against them. Just so happens that the 'alt', far, and very hard right, are very good at convincing others that the press has suddenly turned against them over night. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We've got two people on the thread who know the place first hand saying there is a major problem. There are a number of youtube videos showing riots, film crews being attacked and police officers saying they will not go into muslim no-go areas. And to cap it Sweden's 'feminist' government dressed up as slaves and went to Tehran to grovel before the ayatollah. But the conclusion drawn here...is that it's all a right-wing plot!? Well, from the videos I've seen...NOT available on the BBC, Sky or anywhere else in the mainstream media, unidentified, muslim 'asylum seekers' are turning parts of Sweden into the same carbon copy islamo-fascist, misogynist dungheaps they've just left. You never seem to have any problem finding the fuel to feed your hyperactive fears. Do you not even feel slightly concerned that it is only right wing extremists who are telling the world of the horrors that are befalling Sweden? I mean it is not like ordinary people, groups, councils, States and the government are broadcasting this shit. It is verging on the criminally insane that people will go out of their way to find things that support an ideology that is founded on hatred and fear and worse, that others will actually fabricate "news" knowing that there are people out there who will swallow it up as concrete fact for no other reason than they want to believe it." If the 55 no go zones are true im disgusted its not being taught in schools etc, thats why debate is so important rather than the shut down of speech we have all lived in, some like it, its suits them, others hate it, family members fought wars to protect it i was brought up sticks and stones, you no the rest, but was also taught to listen to them disagree with as people you agree with can't teach you much and if can't teach you at least try to understand. and now the echo chamber is mature the west is split what seemed to be 50/50 but for ever growing on the right and history could well have a whole new chapter brewing that i don't want to be part of but like us all will be dragged into it 1 way or the other | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Those that denys what is happening there is mostly liberals and lefties. I actually lived in Malmo 3 years ago for 6 months - granted its not a life time, and I was at the local uni for a research posting, working a huge amount of the time. Yet I never really saw the excessive violence that is claimed to be a regular occurrence. I noticed that in some areas that - admittedly looked like British council estates, there were people who were loud, rude, seemed a bit aggressive. But then I just kind of shrugged that off, all societies have groups of bad eggs, and I grew up on a shit council estate so I know how to deal with those who intimidate or threaten/do attack people. If you went to poor council estates in Britain and shoved a camera in angry, frustrated, young and old men's faces, you'd probably get a similar amount of crap from them. What I'm trying to say, is they seem like they are looking for trouble. They look like they are aiming to provoke a certain response. Ask any cocky teenager and they'd tell you that they could get the same response from chavs if they wanted. That said, I do believe that our nation and a lot of the western nations, need to get stricter on punishment and reforming individuals who engage in criminal activity. From both national, and migrant backgrounds." Alot have changed since those 3 years ago, it is the difference between night and day. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You never seem to have any problem finding the fuel to feed your hyperactive fears. Do you not even feel slightly concerned that it is only right wing extremists who are telling the world of the horrors that are befalling Sweden? I mean it is not like ordinary people, groups, councils, States and the government are broadcasting this shit. It is verging on the criminally insane that people will go out of their way to find things that support an ideology that is founded on hatred and fear and worse, that others will actually fabricate "news" knowing that there are people out there who will swallow it up as concrete fact for no other reason than they want to believe it." Another semi-coherent personally insulting piece of rubbish combined with another one of your grovelling apologies for muslim criminality. And you never use your oft-repeated expression "criminally insane" to actually describe...criminals!? You'd be a perfect fit for Sweden's feminist government. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We've got two people on the thread who know the place first hand saying there is a major problem. There are a number of youtube videos showing riots, film crews being attacked and police officers saying they will not go into muslim no-go areas. And to cap it Sweden's 'feminist' government dressed up as slaves and went to Tehran to grovel before the ayatollah. But the conclusion drawn here...is that it's all a right-wing plot!? Well, from the videos I've seen...NOT available on the BBC, Sky or anywhere else in the mainstream media, unidentified, muslim 'asylum seekers' are turning parts of Sweden into the same carbon copy islamo-fascist, misogynist dungheaps they've just left." . That's a bit unfair, ALL immigrants bring their home cultures good and bad with them, they ALL try to rebuild their homeland in the new host country, you only have to look at the Spanish Costa to see that. I think ALL country's except the good bits and downplay the bad bits, I'm pretty sure the Spanish were told that they would integrate the British out of their culture of getting pissed out of their heads and then starting fights!. Ha yeah good look on that front Spanish and good luck to the swedes neither will succeed but it will be a noble effort | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Those that denys what is happening there is mostly liberals and lefties. I actually lived in Malmo 3 years ago for 6 months - granted its not a life time, and I was at the local uni for a research posting, working a huge amount of the time. Yet I never really saw the excessive violence that is claimed to be a regular occurrence. I noticed that in some areas that - admittedly looked like British council estates, there were people who were loud, rude, seemed a bit aggressive. But then I just kind of shrugged that off, all societies have groups of bad eggs, and I grew up on a shit council estate so I know how to deal with those who intimidate or threaten/do attack people. If you went to poor council estates in Britain and shoved a camera in angry, frustrated, young and old men's faces, you'd probably get a similar amount of crap from them. What I'm trying to say, is they seem like they are looking for trouble. They look like they are aiming to provoke a certain response. Ask any cocky teenager and they'd tell you that they could get the same response from chavs if they wanted. That said, I do believe that our nation and a lot of the western nations, need to get stricter on punishment and reforming individuals who engage in criminal activity. From both national, and migrant backgrounds.Alot have changed since those 3 years ago, it is the difference between night and day." I went from October to March, most of the time I was walking too and from work it was dark, when I went to get groceries or eat out, it was dark, I often went for a job at 6pm to get to the gym , then job back early night time. It was dark. Most of the time I had free time it was dark mornings, and dark nights cause the sun set early. Night and daytime mean bollocks to anyone intimidating members of the public, as they are always looking for easy, weak targets, or those on their own, if anything daytime allows them to weigh up their opponent. I call bollocks to '3 years have changed things'. Do you live there? Visit there monthly? Until someone shows me state official security info regarding the potential escalation in crime, then I'm going to assume what I see in the video, which is a bunch of people shoving cameras in the face of angry people who, for whatever reason, don't want to be spoken to or filmed. If you actually want to do something, and there is a threat, petition the Swedish government and local authorities to step up the amount riot police in the area to enforce civil order. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
The problem is the extremes , right and left !
I say this as someone who positions himself on The Centre Right in the political spectrum !
Now when the centre , either left or right, ignore reality and peoples sentiments and views because of PC bias or even temporary political convenience , the result is extremism on both sides !
Until recently the masters of propaganda were the left , and were quick to reform themselves after the fall of the wall and the soviet union ! The right got fell asleep celebrating that victory , but are now waking up and catching up fast in the propaganda wars !
Problem is when the minority extremes prevail, its the majority in the centre that suffer !
History has taught us that much .....
And those who ignore History are condemn to repeat it
Food for thought....
Here is another "racist" vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk8T1UxfVI8 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Those that denys what is happening there is mostly liberals and lefties. I actually lived in Malmo 3 years ago for 6 months - granted its not a life time, and I was at the local uni for a research posting, working a huge amount of the time. Yet I never really saw the excessive violence that is claimed to be a regular occurrence. I noticed that in some areas that - admittedly looked like British council estates, there were people who were loud, rude, seemed a bit aggressive. But then I just kind of shrugged that off, all societies have groups of bad eggs, and I grew up on a shit council estate so I know how to deal with those who intimidate or threaten/do attack people. If you went to poor council estates in Britain and shoved a camera in angry, frustrated, young and old men's faces, you'd probably get a similar amount of crap from them. What I'm trying to say, is they seem like they are looking for trouble. They look like they are aiming to provoke a certain response. Ask any cocky teenager and they'd tell you that they could get the same response from chavs if they wanted. That said, I do believe that our nation and a lot of the western nations, need to get stricter on punishment and reforming individuals who engage in criminal activity. From both national, and migrant backgrounds.Alot have changed since those 3 years ago, it is the difference between night and day. I went from October to March, most of the time I was walking too and from work it was dark, when I went to get groceries or eat out, it was dark, I often went for a job at 6pm to get to the gym , then job back early night time. It was dark. Most of the time I had free time it was dark mornings, and dark nights cause the sun set early. Night and daytime mean bollocks to anyone intimidating members of the public, as they are always looking for easy, weak targets, or those on their own, if anything daytime allows them to weigh up their opponent. I call bollocks to '3 years have changed things'. Do you live there? Visit there monthly? Until someone shows me state official security info regarding the potential escalation in crime, then I'm going to assume what I see in the video, which is a bunch of people shoving cameras in the face of angry people who, for whatever reason, don't want to be spoken to or filmed. If you actually want to do something, and there is a threat, petition the Swedish government and local authorities to step up the amount riot police in the area to enforce civil order." We have to agree to disagree on that one, but to see a change the only way it could, would be if sd would win the election in few years time. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You never seem to have any problem finding the fuel to feed your hyperactive fears. Do you not even feel slightly concerned that it is only right wing extremists who are telling the world of the horrors that are befalling Sweden? I mean it is not like ordinary people, groups, councils, States and the government are broadcasting this shit. It is verging on the criminally insane that people will go out of their way to find things that support an ideology that is founded on hatred and fear and worse, that others will actually fabricate "news" knowing that there are people out there who will swallow it up as concrete fact for no other reason than they want to believe it. Another semi-coherent personally insulting piece of rubbish combined with another one of your grovelling apologies for muslim criminality. And you never use your oft-repeated expression "criminally insane" to actually describe...criminals!? You'd be a perfect fit for Sweden's feminist government. " Look, whilst I do think there is an overbearing PC attitude to certain things, currently in western politics, I also question why the hard and 'alt' right don't question their own sources narratives. I mean come on, islamic terrorism, left wing or anti-nationalist demos, non-white domestic violence are reported on to the pin-head - there are no excuses attempted to be made. Yet, the hard and alt right are the first to pipe up about how someone might be 'mentally ill' or had a 'poor family background', if a white guy attacks, assaults, commits a hate crime, or guns down non-whites. I'm fine with strong answers and responses, but don't ignore the hypocrisy amongst the reporting and opinions of those who you support, listen to and align yourself with. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Those that denys what is happening there is mostly liberals and lefties. I actually lived in Malmo 3 years ago for 6 months - granted its not a life time, and I was at the local uni for a research posting, working a huge amount of the time. Yet I never really saw the excessive violence that is claimed to be a regular occurrence. I noticed that in some areas that - admittedly looked like British council estates, there were people who were loud, rude, seemed a bit aggressive. But then I just kind of shrugged that off, all societies have groups of bad eggs, and I grew up on a shit council estate so I know how to deal with those who intimidate or threaten/do attack people. If you went to poor council estates in Britain and shoved a camera in angry, frustrated, young and old men's faces, you'd probably get a similar amount of crap from them. What I'm trying to say, is they seem like they are looking for trouble. They look like they are aiming to provoke a certain response. Ask any cocky teenager and they'd tell you that they could get the same response from chavs if they wanted. That said, I do believe that our nation and a lot of the western nations, need to get stricter on punishment and reforming individuals who engage in criminal activity. From both national, and migrant backgrounds.Alot have changed since those 3 years ago, it is the difference between night and day. I went from October to March, most of the time I was walking too and from work it was dark, when I went to get groceries or eat out, it was dark, I often went for a job at 6pm to get to the gym , then job back early night time. It was dark. Most of the time I had free time it was dark mornings, and dark nights cause the sun set early. Night and daytime mean bollocks to anyone intimidating members of the public, as they are always looking for easy, weak targets, or those on their own, if anything daytime allows them to weigh up their opponent. I call bollocks to '3 years have changed things'. Do you live there? Visit there monthly? Until someone shows me state official security info regarding the potential escalation in crime, then I'm going to assume what I see in the video, which is a bunch of people shoving cameras in the face of angry people who, for whatever reason, don't want to be spoken to or filmed. If you actually want to do something, and there is a threat, petition the Swedish government and local authorities to step up the amount riot police in the area to enforce civil order.We have to agree to disagree on that one, but to see a change the only way it could, would be if sd would win the election in few years time." I disagree. There are better ways of tackling PC culture and a government who supposedly allow 'no go areas' to form, than to vote for a party which subtly and whose supporters openly advocates for white ethno-states, | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh and some great stats there: X area is 90% muslim. Police report that the majority of people arrested in X area are immigrants. Wow. Well done. You know how statistics work. *slow clap* -Matt" You should see the stats on Muslim rapists in countries like Saudi Arabia or Iran! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh and some great stats there: X area is 90% muslim. Police report that the majority of people arrested in X area are immigrants. Wow. Well done. You know how statistics work. *slow clap* -Matt You should see the stats on Muslim rapists in countries like Saudi Arabia or Iran!" Why what are they? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh and some great stats there: X area is 90% muslim. Police report that the majority of people arrested in X area are immigrants. Wow. Well done. You know how statistics work. *slow clap* -Matt You should see the stats on Muslim rapists in countries like Saudi Arabia or Iran! Why what are they?" *whoosh* -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh and some great stats there: X area is 90% muslim. Police report that the majority of people arrested in X area are immigrants. Wow. Well done. You know how statistics work. *slow clap* -Matt You should see the stats on Muslim rapists in countries like Saudi Arabia or Iran! Why what are they? *whoosh* -Matt" I get it Matt, but what are they? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Those that denys what is happening there is mostly liberals and lefties." Most people just want factually accurate discussion. Sounds like you just want to believe any old bollox that fits your own pre-conceived world view. Time and time again the claims of these right wing hate-mongers are shown to be at the very least a massive distortion of the facts, and usually are shown to be completely false. Give me facts, and no matter how uncomfortable they might be for my "lefty liberal" views they prove, at least we can debate and make proper change. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh and some great stats there: X area is 90% muslim. Police report that the majority of people arrested in X area are immigrants. Wow. Well done. You know how statistics work. *slow clap* -Matt You should see the stats on Muslim rapists in countries like Saudi Arabia or Iran! Why what are they? *whoosh* -Matt I get it Matt, but what are they?" No idea. Probably 0 officially. -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh and some great stats there: X area is 90% muslim. Police report that the majority of people arrested in X area are immigrants. Wow. Well done. You know how statistics work. *slow clap* -Matt You should see the stats on Muslim rapists in countries like Saudi Arabia or Iran! Why what are they? *whoosh* -Matt" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh and some great stats there: X area is 90% muslim. Police report that the majority of people arrested in X area are immigrants. Wow. Well done. You know how statistics work. *slow clap* -Matt You should see the stats on Muslim rapists in countries like Saudi Arabia or Iran! Why what are they? *whoosh* -Matt I get it Matt, but what are they? No idea. Probably 0 officially. -Matt" might be something to do with the punishment, public beheading then sewn back on. They don't do it again  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Those that denys what is happening there is mostly liberals and lefties. Hej Jonas !
No ! its not happening, and as a Swede what you wouldnt know about Swedish reality
All the PC lefties on here know better !
Lets not forget that in Sweden you would be harassed probably loose your job , and have your car burned !
All because you dare to state the truth !
Oh and lets not forget you are a white Nazi supremacist too ! I take it you are a liberal and it is happening
Hej Jonas ! NO lol....
I know it is Happening !
I was being ironic
I have been to Rinkebi !
My son lives close by !
Me liberal
Please... don't offend me That is good you have, that area is the same one in malmo called rosengard, notorious for its no go zones.
Yes... Rosengard and Rinkeby only two no go zones out of....55 or more depending on the source
Welcome to Sweden...oops sorry
Absurdistan ! lol... I didn't make that up !
This Woman did
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiodZctX2TY
"That is right. I reckon she is a feminist as well lol. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now farage is joining the swedish democrats to get the truth out and what trump is saying is the truth. " Except that the actual crime statistics in Sweden don't support the right's obsession with evil Muslims. That's why the argument is getting reduced to conspiracy theory stuff about cover ups. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now farage is joining the swedish democrats to get the truth out and what trump is saying is the truth. Except that the actual crime statistics in Sweden don't support the right's obsession with evil Muslims. That's why the argument is getting reduced to conspiracy theory stuff about cover ups. " That is because they dont publish the statistics, hence why the truth is coming out. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now farage is joining the swedish democrats to get the truth out and what trump is saying is the truth. Except that the actual crime statistics in Sweden don't support the right's obsession with evil Muslims. That's why the argument is getting reduced to conspiracy theory stuff about cover ups. That is because they dont publish the statistics, hence why the truth is coming out. " Farage making some claims does not = the truth coming out. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now farage is joining the swedish democrats to get the truth out and what trump is saying is the truth. Except that the actual crime statistics in Sweden don't support the right's obsession with evil Muslims. That's why the argument is getting reduced to conspiracy theory stuff about cover ups. " NO Its not a conspiracy theory , its Fact! Its goverment mandated CENSORSHIP! Its obvious you did not read my previous posts and links ! So for your benefit i will repeat them again... This is why crime statistics don't support, or reflect reality
Ever heard of Swedish police code 291 ?
This Vid is done by a muslim !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15gDRLkYvbU
Here is another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9MjN6fh1z0
Now "if" you are intellectually honest after seeing this, I am sure that you will no longer stand by you comment | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now farage is joining the swedish democrats to get the truth out and what trump is saying is the truth. Except that the actual crime statistics in Sweden don't support the right's obsession with evil Muslims. That's why the argument is getting reduced to conspiracy theory stuff about cover ups. NO Its not a conspiracy theory , its Fact! Its goverment mandated CENSORSHIP! Its obvious you did not read my previous posts and links ! So for your benefit i will repeat them again... This is why crime statistics don't support, or reflect reality
Ever heard of Swedish police code 291 ?
This Vid is done by a muslim !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15gDRLkYvbU
Here is another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9MjN6fh1z0
Now "if" you are intellectually honest after seeing this, I am sure that you will no longer stand by you comment "YouTube videos...such compelling evidence! Here are some actual facts. http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/ | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now farage is joining the swedish democrats to get the truth out and what trump is saying is the truth. Except that the actual crime statistics in Sweden don't support the right's obsession with evil Muslims. That's why the argument is getting reduced to conspiracy theory stuff about cover ups. NO Its not a conspiracy theory , its Fact! Its goverment mandated CENSORSHIP! Its obvious you did not read my previous posts and links ! So for your benefit i will repeat them again... This is why crime statistics don't support, or reflect reality
Ever heard of Swedish police code 291 ?
This Vid is done by a muslim !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15gDRLkYvbU
Here is another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9MjN6fh1z0
Now "if" you are intellectually honest after seeing this, I am sure that you will no longer stand by you comment
YouTube videos...such compelling evidence! Here are some actual facts.
http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/
"YouTube videos. Lmao. Since when is it a trustworthy source. You can find ghost and UFO videos too. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now farage is joining the swedish democrats to get the truth out and what trump is saying is the truth. Except that the actual crime statistics in Sweden don't support the right's obsession with evil Muslims. That's why the argument is getting reduced to conspiracy theory stuff about cover ups. NO Its not a conspiracy theory , its Fact! Its goverment mandated CENSORSHIP! Its obvious you did not read my previous posts and links ! So for your benefit i will repeat them again... This is why crime statistics don't support, or reflect reality
Ever heard of Swedish police code 291 ?
This Vid is done by a muslim !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15gDRLkYvbU
Here is another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9MjN6fh1z0
Now "if" you are intellectually honest after seeing this, I am sure that you will no longer stand by you comment "I prefer KSI. Millions of subscribers. Your videos have very little views and very little likes. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now farage is joining the swedish democrats to get the truth out and what trump is saying is the truth. Except that the actual crime statistics in Sweden don't support the right's obsession with evil Muslims. That's why the argument is getting reduced to conspiracy theory stuff about cover ups. NO Its not a conspiracy theory , its Fact! Its goverment mandated CENSORSHIP! Its obvious you did not read my previous posts and links ! So for your benefit i will repeat them again... This is why crime statistics don't support, or reflect reality
Ever heard of Swedish police code 291 ?
This Vid is done by a muslim !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15gDRLkYvbU
Here is another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9MjN6fh1z0
Now "if" you are intellectually honest after seeing this, I am sure that you will no longer stand by you comment
YouTube videos...such compelling evidence! Here are some actual facts.
http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/
"lol you do know they dont publish all of it?. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now farage is joining the swedish democrats to get the truth out and what trump is saying is the truth. Except that the actual crime statistics in Sweden don't support the right's obsession with evil Muslims. That's why the argument is getting reduced to conspiracy theory stuff about cover ups. NO Its not a conspiracy theory , its Fact! Its goverment mandated CENSORSHIP! Its obvious you did not read my previous posts and links ! So for your benefit i will repeat them again... This is why crime statistics don't support, or reflect reality
Ever heard of Swedish police code 291 ?
This Vid is done by a muslim !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15gDRLkYvbU
Here is another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9MjN6fh1z0
Now "if" you are intellectually honest after seeing this, I am sure that you will no longer stand by you comment
YouTube videos...such compelling evidence! Here are some actual facts.
http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/
lol you do know they dont publish all of it?."Source for this claim? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now farage is joining the swedish democrats to get the truth out and what trump is saying is the truth. Except that the actual crime statistics in Sweden don't support the right's obsession with evil Muslims. That's why the argument is getting reduced to conspiracy theory stuff about cover ups. NO Its not a conspiracy theory , its Fact! Its goverment mandated CENSORSHIP! Its obvious you did not read my previous posts and links ! So for your benefit i will repeat them again... This is why crime statistics don't support, or reflect reality
Ever heard of Swedish police code 291 ?
This Vid is done by a muslim !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15gDRLkYvbU
Here is another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9MjN6fh1z0
Now "if" you are intellectually honest after seeing this, I am sure that you will no longer stand by you comment
YouTube videos...such compelling evidence! Here are some actual facts.
http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/
lol you do know they dont publish all of it?.
Source for this claim?"It is on alternative media | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" YouTube videos...such compelling evidence! Here are some actual facts. http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/ lol you do know they dont publish all of it?. Source for this claim?It is on alternative media "Oh, great | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now farage is joining the swedish democrats to get the truth out and what trump is saying is the truth. Except that the actual crime statistics in Sweden don't support the right's obsession with evil Muslims. That's why the argument is getting reduced to conspiracy theory stuff about cover ups. NO Its not a conspiracy theory , its Fact! Its goverment mandated CENSORSHIP! Its obvious you did not read my previous posts and links ! So for your benefit i will repeat them again... This is why crime statistics don't support, or reflect reality
Ever heard of Swedish police code 291 ?
This Vid is done by a muslim !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15gDRLkYvbU
Here is another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9MjN6fh1z0
Now "if" you are intellectually honest after seeing this, I am sure that you will no longer stand by you comment
YouTube videos...such compelling evidence! Here are some actual facts.
http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/
lol you do know they dont publish all of it?."No Shag they dont ! They prefer to ignore facts , because it doesn't fit their narrative ! They insist on ignoring code 291 and the fact that if it isn't reported , it cant be part of statistics ! Duhhh
Its all probably fake news ....but the thing is the videos I presented are backed by amongst other established news outlets SVT 1 Swedish state channel ....so fake news ...or what ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"They insist on ignoring code 291 and the fact that if it isn't reported , it cant be part of statistics ! Duhhh
"Except if you google the dreaded Code 291 all you get is a bunch of anti-muslim right wing sites. As I said, it's a silly conspiracy theory. You should be embarassed for buying into it so hard. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Now farage is joining the swedish democrats to get the truth out and what trump is saying is the truth. Except that the actual crime statistics in Sweden don't support the right's obsession with evil Muslims. That's why the argument is getting reduced to conspiracy theory stuff about cover ups. NO Its not a conspiracy theory , its Fact! Its goverment mandated CENSORSHIP! Its obvious you did not read my previous posts and links ! So for your benefit i will repeat them again... This is why crime statistics don't support, or reflect reality
Ever heard of Swedish police code 291 ?
This Vid is done by a muslim !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15gDRLkYvbU
Here is another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9MjN6fh1z0
Now "if" you are intellectually honest after seeing this, I am sure that you will no longer stand by you comment
YouTube videos...such compelling evidence! Here are some actual facts.
http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/
lol you do know they dont publish all of it?.
No Shag they dont ! They prefer to ignore facts , because it doesn't fit their narrative !
They insist on ignoring code 291 and the fact that if it isn't reported , it cant be part of statistics ! Duhhh
Its all probably fake news ....but the thing is the videos I presented are backed by amongst other established news outlets SVT 1 Swedish state channel ....so fake news ...or what ? "That is right svt and all of those are fake news and covers what is happening there, it is like most mainstream media. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" YouTube videos...such compelling evidence! Here are some actual facts. http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/ lol you do know they dont publish all of it?. Source for this claim?It is on alternative media
Oh, great "Actually Shag, its not only on alternative media , here are links to official SVT Swedish state tv ! its in Swedish so for all but Shag..... use Google Translate !
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/info-om-flyktinginsatser-lamnas-inte-ut
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/fa-brott-kopplade-till-flyktingar
And Swedens biggest daily lefty tabloid:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/debatt/article22226950.ab
So.... comments ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" YouTube videos...such compelling evidence! Here are some actual facts. http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/ lol you do know they dont publish all of it?. Source for this claim?It is on alternative media
Oh, great
Actually Shag, its not only on alternative media , here are links to official SVT Swedish state tv ! its in Swedish so for all but Shag..... use Google Translate !
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/info-om-flyktinginsatser-lamnas-inte-ut
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/fa-brott-kopplade-till-flyktingar
And Swedens biggest daily lefty tabloid:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/debatt/article22226950.ab
So.... comments ? "From one of your links, via google translate: "Refugees are involved in less than one percent of the interventions that the police do in Sweden, shows statistics Dagens Nyheter developed." Wow, less than 1%, powerful stuff | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" YouTube videos...such compelling evidence! Here are some actual facts. http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/ lol you do know they dont publish all of it?. Source for this claim?It is on alternative media
Oh, great
Actually Shag, its not only on alternative media , here are links to official SVT Swedish state tv ! its in Swedish so for all but Shag..... use Google Translate !
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/info-om-flyktinginsatser-lamnas-inte-ut
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/fa-brott-kopplade-till-flyktingar
And Swedens biggest daily lefty tabloid:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/debatt/article22226950.ab
So.... comments ?
From one of your links, via google translate:
"Refugees are involved in less than one percent of the interventions that the police do in Sweden, shows statistics Dagens Nyheter developed."
Wow, less than 1%, powerful stuff "I think you got lost in translation and you didn't translate the whole article, but I suspect you are dishonest enough to do it on purpose , because you conveniently "forgot" the other 2 links
Yes just confirmed it this is the part you missed the facts bit, by not clicking on it:
"Facts: Code 291
The code was first used by 15 October and will be used until the end of February.
There are all events that can be linked to individuals who are in the Migration Board's reception system in Sweden who receive code 291st
Police would not say how many cases with the code, but according to the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet, these are about 5000 cases, until the end of January"
Fact is that what you put into question was that shag replied to you , it could be found in alternative media.
I proved it is in mainstream media , but
You are still in denial
So lets recap:
1- 291 is a Fact that influences crime stats!
2- Its not a "right wing conspiracy" , and its even reported on mainstream media.
So MAN up and admit you were wrong | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" YouTube videos...such compelling evidence! Here are some actual facts. http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/ lol you do know they dont publish all of it?. Source for this claim?It is on alternative media
Oh, great
Actually Shag, its not only on alternative media , here are links to official SVT Swedish state tv ! its in Swedish so for all but Shag..... use Google Translate !
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/info-om-flyktinginsatser-lamnas-inte-ut
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/fa-brott-kopplade-till-flyktingar
And Swedens biggest daily lefty tabloid:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/debatt/article22226950.ab
So.... comments ?
From one of your links, via google translate:
"Refugees are involved in less than one percent of the interventions that the police do in Sweden, shows statistics Dagens Nyheter developed."
Wow, less than 1%, powerful stuff
I think you got lost in translation and you didn't translate the whole article, but I suspect you are dishonest enough to do it on purpose , because you conveniently "forgot" the other 2 links
Yes just confirmed it this is the part you missed the facts bit, by not clicking on it:
"Facts: Code 291
The code was first used by 15 October and will be used until the end of February.
There are all events that can be linked to individuals who are in the Migration Board's reception system in Sweden who receive code 291st
Police would not say how many cases with the code, but according to the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet, these are about 5000 cases, until the end of January"
Fact is that what you put into question was that shag replied to you , it could be found in alternative media.
I proved it is in mainstream media , but
You are still in denial
So lets recap:
1- 291 is a Fact that influences crime stats!
2- Its not a "right wing conspiracy" , and its even reported on mainstream media.
So MAN up and admit you were wrong "That is right and also, it is impossible to explain to someone who is not swedish and was not born there to know how the government works. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I come from sweden and it is true, abba was the good times there." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We've got two people on the thread who know the place first hand saying there is a major problem. There are a number of youtube videos showing riots, film crews being attacked and police officers saying they will not go into muslim no-go areas. And to cap it Sweden's 'feminist' government dressed up as slaves and went to Tehran to grovel before the ayatollah. But the conclusion drawn here...is that it's all a right-wing plot!? Well, from the videos I've seen...NOT available on the BBC, Sky or anywhere else in the mainstream media, unidentified, muslim 'asylum seekers' are turning parts of Sweden into the same carbon copy islamo-fascist, misogynist dungheaps they've just left." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I come from sweden and it is true, abba was the good times there. "Mamma Mia Moorland2
Come down my way for Sun & Fun , and I will tell you more about it | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Police sealed off an apartment complex in the Lindängen area of Malmo last night after a grenade explosion! A grenade explosion!? Must be a one-off? But according to reports recorded in Wiki under the heading "List of Grenade attacks in Sweden"(!?) the Swedish police say that: "the increase of grenades in Sweden is not comparable to other EU-countries, but rather comparable to the usage in countries that are war zones"!? There were over 30 grenade attacks reported in Malmö alone by August 2015 (only 25 in 2014!?) and over 50 bomb and grenade attacks throughout Sweden in 2016!? So Sweden, now not only European premiership champion of rape and sexual assault but brand leader in...grenade attacks!? All part of the new 'normal' in Sweden's perfect multicultural society run by the world's first feminist government! " We are leaving the EU! Deal with it! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Police sealed off an apartment complex in the Lindängen area of Malmo last night after a grenade explosion! A grenade explosion!? Must be a one-off? But according to reports recorded in Wiki under the heading "List of Grenade attacks in Sweden"(!?) the Swedish police say that: "the increase of grenades in Sweden is not comparable to other EU-countries, but rather comparable to the usage in countries that are war zones"!? There were over 30 grenade attacks reported in Malmö alone by August 2015 (only 25 in 2014!?) and over 50 bomb and grenade attacks throughout Sweden in 2016!? So Sweden, now not only European premiership champion of rape and sexual assault but brand leader in...grenade attacks!? All part of the new 'normal' in Sweden's perfect multicultural society run by the world's first feminist government! "
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Police sealed off an apartment complex in the Lindängen area of Malmo last night after a grenade explosion! A grenade explosion!? Must be a one-off? But according to reports recorded in Wiki under the heading "List of Grenade attacks in Sweden"(!?) the Swedish police say that: "the increase of grenades in Sweden is not comparable to other EU-countries, but rather comparable to the usage in countries that are war zones"!? There were over 30 grenade attacks reported in Malmö alone by August 2015 (only 25 in 2014!?) and over 50 bomb and grenade attacks throughout Sweden in 2016!? So Sweden, now not only European premiership champion of rape and sexual assault but brand leader in...grenade attacks!? All part of the new 'normal' in Sweden's perfect multicultural society run by the world's first feminist government! We are leaving the EU! Deal with it!" Mmmm..... Dont get your comment.
What has leaving the EU got to do with the reality of the situation in Sweden? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Police sealed off an apartment complex in the Lindängen area of Malmo last night after a grenade explosion! A grenade explosion!? Must be a one-off? But according to reports recorded in Wiki under the heading "List of Grenade attacks in Sweden"(!?) the Swedish police say that: "the increase of grenades in Sweden is not comparable to other EU-countries, but rather comparable to the usage in countries that are war zones"!? There were over 30 grenade attacks reported in Malmö alone by August 2015 (only 25 in 2014!?) and over 50 bomb and grenade attacks throughout Sweden in 2016!? So Sweden, now not only European premiership champion of rape and sexual assault but brand leader in...grenade attacks!? All part of the new 'normal' in Sweden's perfect multicultural society run by the world's first feminist government! We are leaving the EU! Deal with it! Mmmm..... Dont get your comment.
What has leaving the EU got to do with the reality of the situation in Sweden? "Nothing. What has feminism got to do with grenades? Omaha has brought it up more than 10 times. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"... What has feminism got to do with grenades? Omaha has brought it up more than 10 times." Ah, you really badly want to shoot the messenger don't you...or chuck a grenade at me? I'm just recording some of the 'achievements' of the SELF-PROCLAIMED world's first feminist government! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Police sealed off an apartment complex in the Lindängen area of Malmo last night after a grenade explosion! A grenade explosion!? Must be a one-off? But according to reports recorded in Wiki under the heading "List of Grenade attacks in Sweden"(!?) the Swedish police say that: "the increase of grenades in Sweden is not comparable to other EU-countries, but rather comparable to the usage in countries that are war zones"!? There were over 30 grenade attacks reported in Malmö alone by August 2015 (only 25 in 2014!?) and over 50 bomb and grenade attacks throughout Sweden in 2016!? So Sweden, now not only European premiership champion of rape and sexual assault but brand leader in...grenade attacks!? All part of the new 'normal' in Sweden's perfect multicultural society run by the world's first feminist government! We are leaving the EU! Deal with it! Mmmm..... Dont get your comment.
What has leaving the EU got to do with the reality of the situation in Sweden?
Nothing. What has feminism got to do with grenades? Omaha has brought it up more than 10 times."Actually ... a lot ! If you do some digging you will find the connection.
Maybe take a look at some vid links on my posts !
But here is a more direct one :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9Qwr6KvmUc&t=167s
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Police sealed off an apartment complex in the Lindängen area of Malmo last night after a grenade explosion! A grenade explosion!? Must be a one-off? But according to reports recorded in Wiki under the heading "List of Grenade attacks in Sweden"(!?) the Swedish police say that: "the increase of grenades in Sweden is not comparable to other EU-countries, but rather comparable to the usage in countries that are war zones"!? There were over 30 grenade attacks reported in Malmö alone by August 2015 (only 25 in 2014!?) and over 50 bomb and grenade attacks throughout Sweden in 2016!? So Sweden, now not only European premiership champion of rape and sexual assault but brand leader in...grenade attacks!? All part of the new 'normal' in Sweden's perfect multicultural society run by the world's first feminist government! We are leaving the EU! Deal with it! Mmmm..... Dont get your comment.
What has leaving the EU got to do with the reality of the situation in Sweden?
Nothing. What has feminism got to do with grenades? Omaha has brought it up more than 10 times.
Actually ... a lot ! If you do some digging you will find the connection.
Maybe take a look at some vid links on my posts !
But here is a more direct one :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9Qwr6KvmUc&t=167s
"(facepalm) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Police sealed off an apartment complex in the Lindängen area of Malmo last night after a grenade explosion! A grenade explosion!? Must be a one-off? But according to reports recorded in Wiki under the heading "List of Grenade attacks in Sweden"(!?) the Swedish police say that: "the increase of grenades in Sweden is not comparable to other EU-countries, but rather comparable to the usage in countries that are war zones"!? There were over 30 grenade attacks reported in Malmö alone by August 2015 (only 25 in 2014!?) and over 50 bomb and grenade attacks throughout Sweden in 2016!? So Sweden, now not only European premiership champion of rape and sexual assault but brand leader in...grenade attacks!? All part of the new 'normal' in Sweden's perfect multicultural society run by the world's first feminist government! " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Police sealed off an apartment complex in the Lindängen area of Malmo last night after a grenade explosion! A grenade explosion!? Must be a one-off? But according to reports recorded in Wiki under the heading "List of Grenade attacks in Sweden"(!?) the Swedish police say that: "the increase of grenades in Sweden is not comparable to other EU-countries, but rather comparable to the usage in countries that are war zones"!? There were over 30 grenade attacks reported in Malmö alone by August 2015 (only 25 in 2014!?) and over 50 bomb and grenade attacks throughout Sweden in 2016!? So Sweden, now not only European premiership champion of rape and sexual assault but brand leader in...grenade attacks!? All part of the new 'normal' in Sweden's perfect multicultural society run by the world's first feminist government! " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We've got two people on the thread who know the place first hand saying there is a major problem. There are a number of youtube videos showing riots, film crews being attacked and police officers saying they will not go into muslim no-go areas. And to cap it Sweden's 'feminist' government dressed up as slaves and went to Tehran to grovel before the ayatollah. But the conclusion drawn here...is that it's all a right-wing plot!? Well, from the videos I've seen...NOT available on the BBC, Sky or anywhere else in the mainstream media, unidentified, muslim 'asylum seekers' are turning parts of Sweden into the same carbon copy islamo-fascist, misogynist dungheaps they've just left." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" YouTube videos...such compelling evidence! Here are some actual facts. http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/ lol you do know they dont publish all of it?. Source for this claim?It is on alternative media
Oh, great
Actually Shag, its not only on alternative media , here are links to official SVT Swedish state tv ! its in Swedish so for all but Shag..... use Google Translate !
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/info-om-flyktinginsatser-lamnas-inte-ut
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/fa-brott-kopplade-till-flyktingar
And Swedens biggest daily lefty tabloid:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/debatt/article22226950.ab
So.... comments ?
From one of your links, via google translate:
"Refugees are involved in less than one percent of the interventions that the police do in Sweden, shows statistics Dagens Nyheter developed."
Wow, less than 1%, powerful stuff
I think you got lost in translation and you didn't translate the whole article, but I suspect you are dishonest enough to do it on purpose , because you conveniently "forgot" the other 2 links
Yes just confirmed it this is the part you missed the facts bit, by not clicking on it:
"Facts: Code 291
The code was first used by 15 October and will be used until the end of February.
There are all events that can be linked to individuals who are in the Migration Board's reception system in Sweden who receive code 291st
Police would not say how many cases with the code, but according to the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet, these are about 5000 cases, until the end of January"
Fact is that what you put into question was that shag replied to you , it could be found in alternative media.
I proved it is in mainstream media , but
You are still in denial
So lets recap:
1- 291 is a Fact that influences crime stats!
2- Its not a "right wing conspiracy" , and its even reported on mainstream media.
So MAN up and admit you were wrong "You haven't proved the slightest thing. Why should I bother to translate all your links when the very first sample I did failed to support your case? Your mainstream media source is a single Swedish newspaper. Why are no other sources reporting this? Oh right, it's a media cover up... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" YouTube videos...such compelling evidence! Here are some actual facts. http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/ lol you do know they dont publish all of it?. Source for this claim?It is on alternative media
Oh, great
Actually Shag, its not only on alternative media , here are links to official SVT Swedish state tv ! its in Swedish so for all but Shag..... use Google Translate !
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/info-om-flyktinginsatser-lamnas-inte-ut
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/fa-brott-kopplade-till-flyktingar
And Swedens biggest daily lefty tabloid:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/debatt/article22226950.ab
So.... comments ?
From one of your links, via google translate:
"Refugees are involved in less than one percent of the interventions that the police do in Sweden, shows statistics Dagens Nyheter developed."
Wow, less than 1%, powerful stuff
I think you got lost in translation and you didn't translate the whole article, but I suspect you are dishonest enough to do it on purpose , because you conveniently "forgot" the other 2 links
Yes just confirmed it this is the part you missed the facts bit, by not clicking on it:
"Facts: Code 291
The code was first used by 15 October and will be used until the end of February.
There are all events that can be linked to individuals who are in the Migration Board's reception system in Sweden who receive code 291st
Police would not say how many cases with the code, but according to the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet, these are about 5000 cases, until the end of January"
Fact is that what you put into question was that shag replied to you , it could be found in alternative media.
I proved it is in mainstream media , but
You are still in denial
So lets recap:
1- 291 is a Fact that influences crime stats!
2- Its not a "right wing conspiracy" , and its even reported on mainstream media.
So MAN up and admit you were wrong
You haven't proved the slightest thing. Why should I bother to translate all your links when the very first sample I did failed to support your case?
Your mainstream media source is a single Swedish newspaper. Why are no other sources reporting this? Oh right, it's a media cover up...
"Misinforming and fear mongering in its true essence, that's what it is: Funny that a dodgy politician, as reliable as a pedophile, dares to call Malmoe as the rape capitol of Europe whilst in Brighton the levels of reported and unreported rapes are worrying. Why a nationalist politician worries about Malmoe and not Brighton?... Is that to make trump good when he misinformed about Sweden days ago? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Police sealed off an apartment complex in the Lindängen area of Malmo last night after a grenade explosion! A grenade explosion!? Must be a one-off? But according to reports recorded in Wiki under the heading "List of Grenade attacks in Sweden"(!?) the Swedish police say that: "the increase of grenades in Sweden is not comparable to other EU-countries, but rather comparable to the usage in countries that are war zones"!? There were over 30 grenade attacks reported in Malmö alone by August 2015 (only 25 in 2014!?) and over 50 bomb and grenade attacks throughout Sweden in 2016!? So Sweden, now not only European premiership champion of rape and sexual assault but brand leader in...grenade attacks!? All part of the new 'normal' in Sweden's perfect multicultural society run by the world's first feminist government! "Sorry, but I'm really struggling to see the link between feminism and hand grenades, can someone please explain it for me. Has the government started putting free grenades in boxes of tampons or something? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" YouTube videos...such compelling evidence! Here are some actual facts. http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/ lol you do know they dont publish all of it?. Source for this claim?It is on alternative media
Oh, great
Actually Shag, its not only on alternative media , here are links to official SVT Swedish state tv ! its in Swedish so for all but Shag..... use Google Translate !
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/info-om-flyktinginsatser-lamnas-inte-ut
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/fa-brott-kopplade-till-flyktingar
And Swedens biggest daily lefty tabloid:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/debatt/article22226950.ab
So.... comments ?
From one of your links, via google translate:
"Refugees are involved in less than one percent of the interventions that the police do in Sweden, shows statistics Dagens Nyheter developed."
Wow, less than 1%, powerful stuff
I think you got lost in translation and you didn't translate the whole article, but I suspect you are dishonest enough to do it on purpose , because you conveniently "forgot" the other 2 links
Yes just confirmed it this is the part you missed the facts bit, by not clicking on it:
"Facts: Code 291
The code was first used by 15 October and will be used until the end of February.
There are all events that can be linked to individuals who are in the Migration Board's reception system in Sweden who receive code 291st
Police would not say how many cases with the code, but according to the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet, these are about 5000 cases, until the end of January"
Fact is that what you put into question was that shag replied to you , it could be found in alternative media.
I proved it is in mainstream media , but
You are still in denial
So lets recap:
1- 291 is a Fact that influences crime stats!
2- Its not a "right wing conspiracy" , and its even reported on mainstream media.
So MAN up and admit you were wrong
You haven't proved the slightest thing. Why should I bother to translate all your links when the very first sample I did failed to support your case?
Your mainstream media source is a single Swedish newspaper. Why are no other sources reporting this? Oh right, it's a media cover up...
"You remind me of that saying; "You can lead a horse to water , but you cant make him drink !" Or should it be an ass in this case  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" YouTube videos...such compelling evidence! Here are some actual facts. http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/ lol you do know they dont publish all of it?. Source for this claim?It is on alternative media
Oh, great
Actually Shag, its not only on alternative media , here are links to official SVT Swedish state tv ! its in Swedish so for all but Shag..... use Google Translate !
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/info-om-flyktinginsatser-lamnas-inte-ut
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/fa-brott-kopplade-till-flyktingar
And Swedens biggest daily lefty tabloid:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/debatt/article22226950.ab
So.... comments ?
From one of your links, via google translate:
"Refugees are involved in less than one percent of the interventions that the police do in Sweden, shows statistics Dagens Nyheter developed."
Wow, less than 1%, powerful stuff
I think you got lost in translation and you didn't translate the whole article, but I suspect you are dishonest enough to do it on purpose , because you conveniently "forgot" the other 2 links
Yes just confirmed it this is the part you missed the facts bit, by not clicking on it:
"Facts: Code 291
The code was first used by 15 October and will be used until the end of February.
There are all events that can be linked to individuals who are in the Migration Board's reception system in Sweden who receive code 291st
Police would not say how many cases with the code, but according to the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet, these are about 5000 cases, until the end of January"
Fact is that what you put into question was that shag replied to you , it could be found in alternative media.
I proved it is in mainstream media , but
You are still in denial
So lets recap:
1- 291 is a Fact that influences crime stats!
2- Its not a "right wing conspiracy" , and its even reported on mainstream media.
So MAN up and admit you were wrong
You haven't proved the slightest thing. Why should I bother to translate all your links when the very first sample I did failed to support your case?
Your mainstream media source is a single Swedish newspaper. Why are no other sources reporting this? Oh right, it's a media cover up...
You remind me of that saying;
"You can lead a horse to water , but you cant make him drink !"
Or should it be an ass in this case "Sure, resort to personal insults if you can't prove your case. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"'lead a horse to water' = go translate these webpages and ignore the bits that don't prove my point. Also please accept what one newspaper says even though no other outlets are reporting it. "Well if that one doesn't work for you here is another that applies ! "You cant argue against a close mind" or " The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about" If you had been actually paying attention to previous posts you would have noticed other links to official state sources.
Although you prefer to ignore the truth, I will again repeat the links
I´l just copy paste from other posts :
Actually Shag, its not only on alternative media , here are links to official SVT Swedish state tv ! its in Swedish so for all but Shag..... use Google Translate !
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/info-om-flyktinginsatser-lamnas-inte-ut
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/fa-brott-kopplade-till-flyktingar
And Swedens biggest daily lefty tabloid:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/debatt/article22226950.ab
http://www.dagensjuridik.se/2016/01/polisen-vagrar-avsloja-vilka-resurser-som-laggs-pa-flyktingsituationen-kod-291-hemlig
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lsoZ0uDOGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta5a02MzWjE
How many more do you want ?
Now obviously you not even going to bother to use Google translate on the links, because you dont want to see the truth , but you cant continue to say this is false and on mainstream media!
Can You ?? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Police sealed off an apartment complex in the Lindängen area of Malmo last night after a grenade explosion! A grenade explosion!? Must be a one-off? But according to reports recorded in Wiki under the heading "List of Grenade attacks in Sweden"(!?) the Swedish police say that: "the increase of grenades in Sweden is not comparable to other EU-countries, but rather comparable to the usage in countries that are war zones"!? There were over 30 grenade attacks reported in Malmö alone by August 2015 (only 25 in 2014!?) and over 50 bomb and grenade attacks throughout Sweden in 2016!? So Sweden, now not only European premiership champion of rape and sexual assault but brand leader in...grenade attacks!? All part of the new 'normal' in Sweden's perfect multicultural society run by the world's first feminist government! We are leaving the EU! Deal with it! Mmmm..... Dont get your comment.
What has leaving the EU got to do with the reality of the situation in Sweden?
Nothing. What has feminism got to do with grenades? Omaha has brought it up more than 10 times.
Actually ... a lot ! If you do some digging you will find the connection.
Maybe take a look at some vid links on my posts !
But here is a more direct one :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9Qwr6KvmUc&t=167s
(facepalm)"What ? spell it out ! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" YouTube videos...such compelling evidence! Here are some actual facts. http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/ lol you do know they dont publish all of it?. Source for this claim?It is on alternative media
Oh, great
Actually Shag, its not only on alternative media , here are links to official SVT Swedish state tv ! its in Swedish so for all but Shag..... use Google Translate !
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/info-om-flyktinginsatser-lamnas-inte-ut
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/fa-brott-kopplade-till-flyktingar
And Swedens biggest daily lefty tabloid:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/debatt/article22226950.ab
So.... comments ?
From one of your links, via google translate:
"Refugees are involved in less than one percent of the interventions that the police do in Sweden, shows statistics Dagens Nyheter developed."
Wow, less than 1%, powerful stuff
I think you got lost in translation and you didn't translate the whole article, but I suspect you are dishonest enough to do it on purpose , because you conveniently "forgot" the other 2 links
Yes just confirmed it this is the part you missed the facts bit, by not clicking on it:
"Facts: Code 291
The code was first used by 15 October and will be used until the end of February.
There are all events that can be linked to individuals who are in the Migration Board's reception system in Sweden who receive code 291st
Police would not say how many cases with the code, but according to the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet, these are about 5000 cases, until the end of January"
Fact is that what you put into question was that shag replied to you , it could be found in alternative media.
I proved it is in mainstream media , but
You are still in denial
So lets recap:
1- 291 is a Fact that influences crime stats!
2- Its not a "right wing conspiracy" , and its even reported on mainstream media.
So MAN up and admit you were wrong
You haven't proved the slightest thing. Why should I bother to translate all your links when the very first sample I did failed to support your case?
Your mainstream media source is a single Swedish newspaper. Why are no other sources reporting this? Oh right, it's a media cover up...
You remind me of that saying;
"You can lead a horse to water , but you cant make him drink !"
Or should it be an ass in this case
Sure, resort to personal insults if you can't prove your case.
""If the shoe fits,wear it " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Police sealed off an apartment complex in the Lindängen area of Malmo last night after a grenade explosion! A grenade explosion!? Must be a one-off? But according to reports recorded in Wiki under the heading "List of Grenade attacks in Sweden"(!?) the Swedish police say that: "the increase of grenades in Sweden is not comparable to other EU-countries, but rather comparable to the usage in countries that are war zones"!? There were over 30 grenade attacks reported in Malmö alone by August 2015 (only 25 in 2014!?) and over 50 bomb and grenade attacks throughout Sweden in 2016!? So Sweden, now not only European premiership champion of rape and sexual assault but brand leader in...grenade attacks!? All part of the new 'normal' in Sweden's perfect multicultural society run by the world's first feminist government!
Sorry, but I'm really struggling to see the link between feminism and hand grenades, can someone please explain it for me. Has the government started putting free grenades in boxes of tampons or something? "Ok ! its a root cause that results in a contradiction ! The feminist policies facilitated some groups of people that came to Sweden and are behind these attacks. The contradiction lies in the fact that these people for cultural and religious reasons oppress and discriminate women!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gOvT9dmpA4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTVtYvVwUXg
colourful language in this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdH7Nqz32-k&list=PLo0ElGp48iyJqyeqk-_KeYjIz0z-PU5bV&index=8
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Correlation does not always equal causation." Who knew that the number of people who drowned by falling into a swimming-pool correlates with the number of films Nicolas Cage appeared in? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You're trying too hard to find a correlation here. You don't know these people, you don't know what they intended. You try to compile statistics and correlate them to a result that amounts to nothing more than speculation. " You mean amounts to their view. Plus Nicolas cage retired to save people. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You're trying too hard to find a correlation here. You don't know these people, you don't know what they intended. You try to compile statistics and correlate them to a result that amounts to nothing more than speculation. You mean amounts to their view. Plus Nicolas cage retired to save people." Yes you're right its confirmation (bias) of his world view . | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Correlation does not always equal causation." Deflecting and in Denial again are you ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You're trying too hard to find a correlation here. You don't know these people, you don't know what they intended. You try to compile statistics and correlate them to a result that amounts to nothing more than speculation. " Typical Bob !
In denial .... Facts and evidence don't matter.
You never been there ! But obviously those who have, don't have a clue !
" The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Correlation does not always equal causation. Deflecting and in Denial again are you ? "Not in denial. Never bothered watching the video s. YouTube is driven by money and ads and subscribers. I managed a similar platform and worked in ads. We drive traffic by segmenting users and give them what they want. Which makes millions. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" In denial .... Facts and evidence don't matter.
"No, the exact opposite. Facts and evidence matter hugely. That is why it is so important they are used correctly and that people don't try to take random statistics and try and correlate them and assume they are then related. Or draw false conclusions from them. e.g. like Paul Watson, the right-wing nutjob who runs Prison Planet, the site that your the guy who you keep posting YouTube vids of also contributes to. He was the one who came up with that 'Sweden Challenge' that spectacularly backfired on him and made him look like an idiot.. In his latest video on Sweden he says that one neighbourhood is 90% immigrant muslims. He then goes on to exclaim that the police report that the majority of crimes recorded are from muslim immigrants, like that proves that muslim immigrants cause a disproportionally high level of crime. Whereas instead that is just selection bias. I'd be more worried if muslim immigrants were NOT behind the majority of the crimes, as that would suggest some other faction committing an above-average proportion of the crimes. -Matt | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Correlation does not always equal causation. Deflecting and in Denial again are you ?
Not in denial. Never bothered watching the video s. YouTube is driven by money and ads and subscribers. I managed a similar platform and worked in ads. We drive traffic by segmenting users and give them what they want. Which makes millions."You are unbelievable !
" Never bothered to watch the videos"
By your own words you admit that these two Quotes define who you are!!!
"You cant argue against a close mind"
or " The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
YOU REFUSE to see any info that you think might contradict you pre conceived ideas !!
That makes you an intellectually dis honest agitator racist!
SHAME on YOU | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Correlation does not always equal causation. Deflecting and in Denial again are you ?
Not in denial. Never bothered watching the video s. YouTube is driven by money and ads and subscribers. I managed a similar platform and worked in ads. We drive traffic by segmenting users and give them what they want. Which makes millions.
You are unbelievable !
" Never bothered to watch the videos"
By your own words you admit that these two Quotes define who you are!!!
"You cant argue against a close mind"
or " The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
YOU REFUSE to see any info that you think might contradict you pre conceived ideas !!
That makes you an intellectually dis honest agitator racist!
SHAME on YOU "Dont worry Amsterdam he said i was a threat to humanity and western civilization last week .Lets team up and bring about the anglo Saxon apocalypse. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Correlation does not always equal causation. Deflecting and in Denial again are you ?
Not in denial. Never bothered watching the video s. YouTube is driven by money and ads and subscribers. I managed a similar platform and worked in ads. We drive traffic by segmenting users and give them what they want. Which makes millions.
You are unbelievable !
" Never bothered to watch the videos"
By your own words you admit that these two Quotes define who you are!!!
"You cant argue against a close mind"
or " The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
YOU REFUSE to see any info that you think might contradict you pre conceived ideas !!
That makes you an intellectually dis honest agitator racist!
SHAME on YOU Dont worry Amsterdam he said i was a threat to humanity and western civilization last week .Lets team up and bring about the anglo Saxon apocalypse. "Lol....
Racism, utopia, Fascism, censorship and ignorance are always a threat to humanity ! History has taught us that much !
And by your own admission Bob , the shoe
fits perfectly on you.... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Correlation does not always equal causation. Deflecting and in Denial again are you ?
Not in denial. Never bothered watching the video s. YouTube is driven by money and ads and subscribers. I managed a similar platform and worked in ads. We drive traffic by segmenting users and give them what they want. Which makes millions.
You are unbelievable !
" Never bothered to watch the videos"
By your own words you admit that these two Quotes define who you are!!!
"You cant argue against a close mind"
or " The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
YOU REFUSE to see any info that you think might contradict you pre conceived ideas !!
That makes you an intellectually dis honest agitator racist!
SHAME on YOU "Here's a video to support your case. https://youtu.be/E2Vrl576gqM | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Correlation does not always equal causation. Deflecting and in Denial again are you ?
Not in denial. Never bothered watching the video s. YouTube is driven by money and ads and subscribers. I managed a similar platform and worked in ads. We drive traffic by segmenting users and give them what they want. Which makes millions.
You are unbelievable !
" Never bothered to watch the videos"
By your own words you admit that these two Quotes define who you are!!!
"You cant argue against a close mind"
or " The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
YOU REFUSE to see any info that you think might contradict you pre conceived ideas !!
That makes you an intellectually dis honest agitator racist!
SHAME on YOU Dont worry Amsterdam he said i was a threat to humanity and western civilization last week .Lets team up and bring about the anglo Saxon apocalypse.
Lol....
Racism, utopia, Fascism, censorship and ignorance are always a threat to humanity ! History has taught us that much !
And by your own admission Bob , the shoe
fits perfectly on you.... "Sounds like the five pillars of the Trump administration. I like it. You Trumpanzees come up with some gems. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Correlation does not always equal causation. Deflecting and in Denial again are you ?
Not in denial. Never bothered watching the video s. YouTube is driven by money and ads and subscribers. I managed a similar platform and worked in ads. We drive traffic by segmenting users and give them what they want. Which makes millions.
You are unbelievable !
" Never bothered to watch the videos"
By your own words you admit that these two Quotes define who you are!!!
"You cant argue against a close mind"
or " The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
YOU REFUSE to see any info that you think might contradict you pre conceived ideas !!
That makes you an intellectually dis honest agitator racist!
SHAME on YOU
Here's a video to support your case.
https://youtu.be/E2Vrl576gqM"Wow..
It applies well to you doesn't it ?
Seems I hit a nerve !
And you ran out of valid points ! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sorry this conversation is too out there. I thought we were debating about Sweden, how selected facts can confirm a biased view. Since then feminism and grenades and Nicolas Cage came into the conversation. The video is me signing out of this thread."
I agree! but for the record , it wasn't me that went of topic, was it ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Correlation does not always equal causation. Deflecting and in Denial again are you ?
Not in denial. Never bothered watching the video s. YouTube is driven by money and ads and subscribers. I managed a similar platform and worked in ads. We drive traffic by segmenting users and give them what they want. Which makes millions.
You are unbelievable !
" Never bothered to watch the videos"
By your own words you admit that these two Quotes define who you are!!!
"You cant argue against a close mind"
or " The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
YOU REFUSE to see any info that you think might contradict you pre conceived ideas !!
That makes you an intellectually dis honest agitator racist!
SHAME on YOU
Here's a video to support your case.
https://youtu.be/E2Vrl576gqM
Wow..
It applies well to you doesn't it ?
Seems I hit a nerve !
And you ran out of valid points ! "Signing back in. Glad you enjoyed it. I never had any valid points. Oh the age of miss America correlates with the number of murders from hot objects. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Correlation does not always equal causation. Deflecting and in Denial again are you ?
Not in denial. Never bothered watching the video s. YouTube is driven by money and ads and subscribers. I managed a similar platform and worked in ads. We drive traffic by segmenting users and give them what they want. Which makes millions.
You are unbelievable !
" Never bothered to watch the videos"
By your own words you admit that these two Quotes define who you are!!!
"You cant argue against a close mind"
or " The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
YOU REFUSE to see any info that you think might contradict you pre conceived ideas !!
That makes you an intellectually dis honest agitator racist!
SHAME on YOU
Here's a video to support your case.
https://youtu.be/E2Vrl576gqM
Wow..
It applies well to you doesn't it ?
Seems I hit a nerve !
And you ran out of valid points !
Signing back in. Glad you enjoyed it. I never had any valid points. Oh the age of miss America correlates with the number of murders from hot objects. "Yes ,instead of valid points you had pre conceived ideas, speculation and denial. And I don't get the miss America diatribe ... so its you going off topic now... ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPtNON6sHXw Is this fact based or opinion based? is this right wings truth or just truth? " Hey funbased. What is fact and what is opinion? Isn't fact something that is proven by evidence? I.e. I asked 10 people are they a remainer. 6 said no. That's a fact? If I recorded it yes. So if I say 60% of the population are not remainers? Is that fact? What if I ask the 4 remainers do you have breakfast. They all say yes. So 100% of the remainers have breakfast. I can say all remainers eat breakfast. Is that fact or opinion? It's based on facts. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OK I'll bite. Can we start again. What's the truth about Sweden? " they have elections next year and the far right are leading in the polls | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OK I'll bite. Can we start again. What's the truth about Sweden? they have elections next year and the far right are leading in the polls" That is right, put sweden first | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Correlation does not always equal causation. Deflecting and in Denial again are you ?
Not in denial. Never bothered watching the video s. YouTube is driven by money and ads and subscribers. I managed a similar platform and worked in ads. We drive traffic by segmenting users and give them what they want. Which makes millions.
You are unbelievable !
" Never bothered to watch the videos"
By your own words you admit that these two Quotes define who you are!!!
"You cant argue against a close mind"
or " The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
YOU REFUSE to see any info that you think might contradict you pre conceived ideas !!
That makes you an intellectually dis honest agitator racist!
SHAME on YOU
Here's a video to support your case.
https://youtu.be/E2Vrl576gqM
Wow..
It applies well to you doesn't it ?
Seems I hit a nerve !
And you ran out of valid points !
Signing back in. Glad you enjoyed it. I never had any valid points. Oh the age of miss America correlates with the number of murders from hot objects.
Yes ,instead of valid points you had pre conceived ideas, speculation and denial. And I don't get the miss America diatribe ... so its you going off topic now... ? "No it's you. The discussion is about fact vs opinion and correlation and causation. And that statistics are manipulated to support opinions. Nicolas cage and miss America are known examples of correlation does not imply causation. Simple mathematics. So in fact any data can be manipulated. It's not ignorance, it's being open that everything is not what it seems. Answer this. What is my bias? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OK I'll bite. Can we start again. What's the truth about Sweden? they have elections next year and the far right are leading in the polls" An why do you think that is ?
In a matter of 5 or 6 years SD, The Sweden Democrats , went from 3% to over 23 % (depending on the poll)
They now are, soon will be, the biggest party in Sweden.
While I dont like their program , they are currently the ONLY party in Sweden that has a realistic view of the country.
To Clarify ! They are not Far right !
The actual program they have is based on the social democrats (Swedish socialists ) from the 50ties!
The Folkhemmet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet
Funny how political "Labels" are misleading.
So how can you label far right , a party that is based on Swedish socialist doctrine ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OK I'll bite. Can we start again. What's the truth about Sweden? they have elections next year and the far right are leading in the polls An why do you think that is ?
In a matter of 5 or 6 years SD, The Sweden Democrats , went from 3% to over 23 % (depending on the poll)
They now are, soon will be, the biggest party in Sweden.
While I dont like their program , they are currently the ONLY party in Sweden that has a realistic view of the country.
To Clarify ! They are not Far right !
The actual program they have is based on the social democrats (Swedish socialists ) from the 50ties!
The Folkhemmet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet
Funny how political "Labels" are misleading.
So how can you label far right , a party that is based on Swedish socialist doctrine ? "Always though centuar and candm were lefties. Too far left that the socialists are far right. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Correlation does not always equal causation. Deflecting and in Denial again are you ?
Not in denial. Never bothered watching the video s. YouTube is driven by money and ads and subscribers. I managed a similar platform and worked in ads. We drive traffic by segmenting users and give them what they want. Which makes millions.
You are unbelievable !
" Never bothered to watch the videos"
By your own words you admit that these two Quotes define who you are!!!
"You cant argue against a close mind"
or " The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
YOU REFUSE to see any info that you think might contradict you pre conceived ideas !!
That makes you an intellectually dis honest agitator racist!
SHAME on YOU
Here's a video to support your case.
https://youtu.be/E2Vrl576gqM
Wow..
It applies well to you doesn't it ?
Seems I hit a nerve !
And you ran out of valid points !
Signing back in. Glad you enjoyed it. I never had any valid points. Oh the age of miss America correlates with the number of murders from hot objects.
Yes ,instead of valid points you had pre conceived ideas, speculation and denial. And I don't get the miss America diatribe ... so its you going off topic now... ?
No it's you. The discussion is about fact vs opinion and correlation and causation. And that statistics are manipulated to support opinions.
Nicolas cage and miss America are known examples of correlation does not imply causation. Simple mathematics. So in fact any data can be manipulated. It's not ignorance, it's being open that everything is not what it seems.
Answer this. What is my bias?"Your bias , resides in the fact you refuse to accept the mere possibility that Swedish reality is not what people like Shag ( a swede) , or me , that have experienced the country first hand , or disturbing events reported are true! You prefer to believe the politically correct official state line (propaganda). You label us as right wing conspiracy theory anti immigration/muslim nuts !
lol...Now I have nuts.... but use those for fun , that's why I´m on Fab | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Correlation does not always equal causation. Deflecting and in Denial again are you ?
Not in denial. Never bothered watching the video s. YouTube is driven by money and ads and subscribers. I managed a similar platform and worked in ads. We drive traffic by segmenting users and give them what they want. Which makes millions.
You are unbelievable !
" Never bothered to watch the videos"
By your own words you admit that these two Quotes define who you are!!!
"You cant argue against a close mind"
or " The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
YOU REFUSE to see any info that you think might contradict you pre conceived ideas !!
That makes you an intellectually dis honest agitator racist!
SHAME on YOU
Here's a video to support your case.
https://youtu.be/E2Vrl576gqM
Wow..
It applies well to you doesn't it ?
Seems I hit a nerve !
And you ran out of valid points !
Signing back in. Glad you enjoyed it. I never had any valid points. Oh the age of miss America correlates with the number of murders from hot objects.
Yes ,instead of valid points you had pre conceived ideas, speculation and denial. And I don't get the miss America diatribe ... so its you going off topic now... ?
No it's you. The discussion is about fact vs opinion and correlation and causation. And that statistics are manipulated to support opinions.
Nicolas cage and miss America are known examples of correlation does not imply causation. Simple mathematics. So in fact any data can be manipulated. It's not ignorance, it's being open that everything is not what it seems.
Answer this. What is my bias?
Your bias , resides in the fact you refuse to accept the mere possibility that Swedish reality is not what people like Shag ( a swede) , or me , that have experienced the country first hand , or disturbing events reported are true!
You prefer to believe the politically correct official state line (propaganda). You label us as right wing conspiracy theory anti immigration/muslim nuts !
lol...Now I have nuts.... but use those for fun , that's why I´m on Fab "That is right, they are liberal and lefties and are blind to what is happening there. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Correlation does not always equal causation. Deflecting and in Denial again are you ?
Not in denial. Never bothered watching the video s. YouTube is driven by money and ads and subscribers. I managed a similar platform and worked in ads. We drive traffic by segmenting users and give them what they want. Which makes millions.
You are unbelievable !
" Never bothered to watch the videos"
By your own words you admit that these two Quotes define who you are!!!
"You cant argue against a close mind"
or " The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
YOU REFUSE to see any info that you think might contradict you pre conceived ideas !!
That makes you an intellectually dis honest agitator racist!
SHAME on YOU
Here's a video to support your case.
https://youtu.be/E2Vrl576gqM
Wow..
It applies well to you doesn't it ?
Seems I hit a nerve !
And you ran out of valid points !
Signing back in. Glad you enjoyed it. I never had any valid points. Oh the age of miss America correlates with the number of murders from hot objects.
Yes ,instead of valid points you had pre conceived ideas, speculation and denial. And I don't get the miss America diatribe ... so its you going off topic now... ?
No it's you. The discussion is about fact vs opinion and correlation and causation. And that statistics are manipulated to support opinions.
Nicolas cage and miss America are known examples of correlation does not imply causation. Simple mathematics. So in fact any data can be manipulated. It's not ignorance, it's being open that everything is not what it seems.
Answer this. What is my bias?
Your bias , resides in the fact you refuse to accept the mere possibility that Swedish reality is not what people like Shag ( a swede) , or me , that have experienced the country first hand , or disturbing events reported are true!
You prefer to believe the politically correct official state line (propaganda). You label us as right wing conspiracy theory anti immigration/muslim nuts !
lol...Now I have nuts.... but use those for fun , that's why I´m on Fab That is right, they are liberal and lefties and are blind to what is happening there."Um I'm a lefty by hand. Not by politics. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OK I'll bite. Can we start again. What's the truth about Sweden? they have elections next year and the far right are leading in the polls An why do you think that is ?
In a matter of 5 or 6 years SD, The Sweden Democrats , went from 3% to over 23 % (depending on the poll)
They now are, soon will be, the biggest party in Sweden.
While I dont like their program , they are currently the ONLY party in Sweden that has a realistic view of the country.
To Clarify ! They are not Far right !
The actual program they have is based on the social democrats (Swedish socialists ) from the 50ties!
The Folkhemmet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet
Funny how political "Labels" are misleading.
So how can you label far right , a party that is based on Swedish socialist doctrine ?
Always though centuar and candm were lefties. Too far left that the socialists are far right."I've said it before on here, go too far left and u end up as the right, they are just labels. What myself and Centaur are, well I presume from his posts, are neither, we are realists with a common sense vision who won't be shouted down by false accusations of racism or whatever | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Correlation does not always equal causation. Deflecting and in Denial again are you ?
Not in denial. Never bothered watching the video s. YouTube is driven by money and ads and subscribers. I managed a similar platform and worked in ads. We drive traffic by segmenting users and give them what they want. Which makes millions.
You are unbelievable !
" Never bothered to watch the videos"
By your own words you admit that these two Quotes define who you are!!!
"You cant argue against a close mind"
or " The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
YOU REFUSE to see any info that you think might contradict you pre conceived ideas !!
That makes you an intellectually dis honest agitator racist!
SHAME on YOU
Here's a video to support your case.
https://youtu.be/E2Vrl576gqM
Wow..
It applies well to you doesn't it ?
Seems I hit a nerve !
And you ran out of valid points !
Signing back in. Glad you enjoyed it. I never had any valid points. Oh the age of miss America correlates with the number of murders from hot objects.
Yes ,instead of valid points you had pre conceived ideas, speculation and denial. And I don't get the miss America diatribe ... so its you going off topic now... ?
No it's you. The discussion is about fact vs opinion and correlation and causation. And that statistics are manipulated to support opinions.
Nicolas cage and miss America are known examples of correlation does not imply causation. Simple mathematics. So in fact any data can be manipulated. It's not ignorance, it's being open that everything is not what it seems.
Answer this. What is my bias?
Your bias , resides in the fact you refuse to accept the mere possibility that Swedish reality is not what people like Shag ( a swede) , or me , that have experienced the country first hand , or disturbing events reported are true!
You prefer to believe the politically correct official state line (propaganda). You label us as right wing conspiracy theory anti immigration/muslim nuts !
lol...Now I have nuts.... but use those for fun , that's why I´m on Fab That is right, they are liberal and lefties and are blind to what is happening there.
Um I'm a lefty by hand. Not by politics. "I am a green and not very liberal..Right handed though. What happened to tonys nuts."now i have nuts" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OK I'll bite. Can we start again. What's the truth about Sweden? they have elections next year and the far right are leading in the polls An why do you think that is ?
In a matter of 5 or 6 years SD, The Sweden Democrats , went from 3% to over 23 % (depending on the poll)
They now are, soon will be, the biggest party in Sweden.
While I dont like their program , they are currently the ONLY party in Sweden that has a realistic view of the country.
To Clarify ! They are not Far right !
The actual program they have is based on the social democrats (Swedish socialists ) from the 50ties!
The Folkhemmet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet
Funny how political "Labels" are misleading.
So how can you label far right , a party that is based on Swedish socialist doctrine ?
Always though centuar and candm were lefties. Too far left that the socialists are far right.
I've said it before on here, go too far left and u end up as the right, they are just labels. What myself and Centaur are, well I presume from his posts, are neither, we are realists with a common sense vision who won't be shouted down by false accusations of racism or whatever"I never called either of you a racist. Well you seem to judge me for political reasons not my race . I just question your thoughts and beliefs. I try to understand. Unless it was shag who said that living in London does not make you British. That may have been cobalt kid. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Correlation does not always equal causation. Deflecting and in Denial again are you ?
Not in denial. Never bothered watching the video s. YouTube is driven by money and ads and subscribers. I managed a similar platform and worked in ads. We drive traffic by segmenting users and give them what they want. Which makes millions.
You are unbelievable !
" Never bothered to watch the videos"
By your own words you admit that these two Quotes define who you are!!!
"You cant argue against a close mind"
or " The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
YOU REFUSE to see any info that you think might contradict you pre conceived ideas !!
That makes you an intellectually dis honest agitator racist!
SHAME on YOU
Here's a video to support your case.
https://youtu.be/E2Vrl576gqM
Wow..
It applies well to you doesn't it ?
Seems I hit a nerve !
And you ran out of valid points !
Signing back in. Glad you enjoyed it. I never had any valid points. Oh the age of miss America correlates with the number of murders from hot objects.
Yes ,instead of valid points you had pre conceived ideas, speculation and denial. And I don't get the miss America diatribe ... so its you going off topic now... ?
No it's you. The discussion is about fact vs opinion and correlation and causation. And that statistics are manipulated to support opinions.
Nicolas cage and miss America are known examples of correlation does not imply causation. Simple mathematics. So in fact any data can be manipulated. It's not ignorance, it's being open that everything is not what it seems.
Answer this. What is my bias?
Your bias , resides in the fact you refuse to accept the mere possibility that Swedish reality is not what people like Shag ( a swede) , or me , that have experienced the country first hand , or disturbing events reported are true!
You prefer to believe the politically correct official state line (propaganda). You label us as right wing conspiracy theory anti immigration/muslim nuts !
lol...Now I have nuts.... but use those for fun , that's why I´m on Fab That is right, they are liberal and lefties and are blind to what is happening there.
Um I'm a lefty by hand. Not by politics. I am a green and not very liberal..Right handed though. What happened to tonys nuts."now i have nuts" "I'm struggling to keep up with people's writing hand. I assume I'm the only real lefty. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OK I'll bite. Can we start again. What's the truth about Sweden? they have elections next year and the far right are leading in the polls An why do you think that is ?
In a matter of 5 or 6 years SD, The Sweden Democrats , went from 3% to over 23 % (depending on the poll)
They now are, soon will be, the biggest party in Sweden.
While I dont like their program , they are currently the ONLY party in Sweden that has a realistic view of the country.
To Clarify ! They are not Far right !
The actual program they have is based on the social democrats (Swedish socialists ) from the 50ties!
The Folkhemmet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet
Funny how political "Labels" are misleading.
So how can you label far right , a party that is based on Swedish socialist doctrine ?
Always though centuar and candm were lefties. Too far left that the socialists are far right.
I've said it before on here, go too far left and u end up as the right, they are just labels. What myself and Centaur are, well I presume from his posts, are neither, we are realists with a common sense vision who won't be shouted down by false accusations of racism or whatever
I never called either of you a racist. Well you seem to judge me for political reasons not my race . I just question your thoughts and beliefs. I try to understand.
Unless it was shag who said that living in London does not make you British. That may have been cobalt kid. "I meant born and grew up in London. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OK I'll bite. Can we start again. What's the truth about Sweden? they have elections next year and the far right are leading in the polls An why do you think that is ?
In a matter of 5 or 6 years SD, The Sweden Democrats , went from 3% to over 23 % (depending on the poll)
They now are, soon will be, the biggest party in Sweden.
While I dont like their program , they are currently the ONLY party in Sweden that has a realistic view of the country.
To Clarify ! They are not Far right !
The actual program they have is based on the social democrats (Swedish socialists ) from the 50ties!
The Folkhemmet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet
Funny how political "Labels" are misleading.
So how can you label far right , a party that is based on Swedish socialist doctrine ?
Always though centuar and candm were lefties. Too far left that the socialists are far right.
I've said it before on here, go too far left and u end up as the right, they are just labels. What myself and Centaur are, well I presume from his posts, are neither, we are realists with a common sense vision who won't be shouted down by false accusations of racism or whatever"Somebody needs a hug. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OK I'll bite. Can we start again. What's the truth about Sweden? they have elections next year and the far right are leading in the polls An why do you think that is ?
In a matter of 5 or 6 years SD, The Sweden Democrats , went from 3% to over 23 % (depending on the poll)
They now are, soon will be, the biggest party in Sweden.
While I dont like their program , they are currently the ONLY party in Sweden that has a realistic view of the country.
To Clarify ! They are not Far right !
The actual program they have is based on the social democrats (Swedish socialists ) from the 50ties!
The Folkhemmet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet
Funny how political "Labels" are misleading.
So how can you label far right , a party that is based on Swedish socialist doctrine ?
Always though centuar and candm were lefties. Too far left that the socialists are far right.
I've said it before on here, go too far left and u end up as the right, they are just labels. What myself and Centaur are, well I presume from his posts, are neither, we are realists with a common sense vision who won't be shouted down by false accusations of racism or whatever
I never called either of you a racist. Well you seem to judge me for political reasons not my race . I just question your thoughts and beliefs. I try to understand.
Unless it was shag who said that living in London does not make you British. That may have been cobalt kid. "That wasnt me lol and my thoughts is to bring back sweden to how it was that doesnt make you right or left. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OK I'll bite. Can we start again. What's the truth about Sweden? they have elections next year and the far right are leading in the polls An why do you think that is ?
In a matter of 5 or 6 years SD, The Sweden Democrats , went from 3% to over 23 % (depending on the poll)
They now are, soon will be, the biggest party in Sweden.
While I dont like their program , they are currently the ONLY party in Sweden that has a realistic view of the country.
To Clarify ! They are not Far right !
The actual program they have is based on the social democrats (Swedish socialists ) from the 50ties!
The Folkhemmet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet
Funny how political "Labels" are misleading.
So how can you label far right , a party that is based on Swedish socialist doctrine ?
Always though centuar and candm were lefties. Too far left that the socialists are far right.
I've said it before on here, go too far left and u end up as the right, they are just labels. What myself and Centaur are, well I presume from his posts, are neither, we are realists with a common sense vision who won't be shouted down by false accusations of racism or whatever
I never called either of you a racist. Well you seem to judge me for political reasons not my race . I just question your thoughts and beliefs. I try to understand.
Unless it was shag who said that living in London does not make you British. That may have been cobalt kid. That wasnt me lol and my thoughts is to bring back sweden to how it was that doesnt make you right or left."Agree. Same in Britain. Not experienced left and right divide here in the Netherlands. Maybe poor and rich. Ñ | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OK I'll bite. Can we start again. What's the truth about Sweden? they have elections next year and the far right are leading in the polls An why do you think that is ?
In a matter of 5 or 6 years SD, The Sweden Democrats , went from 3% to over 23 % (depending on the poll)
They now are, soon will be, the biggest party in Sweden.
While I dont like their program , they are currently the ONLY party in Sweden that has a realistic view of the country.
To Clarify ! They are not Far right !
The actual program they have is based on the social democrats (Swedish socialists ) from the 50ties!
The Folkhemmet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet
Funny how political "Labels" are misleading.
So how can you label far right , a party that is based on Swedish socialist doctrine ?
Always though centuar and candm were lefties. Too far left that the socialists are far right.
I've said it before on here, go too far left and u end up as the right, they are just labels. What myself and Centaur are, well I presume from his posts, are neither, we are realists with a common sense vision who won't be shouted down by false accusations of racism or whatever
I never called either of you a racist. Well you seem to judge me for political reasons not my race . I just question your thoughts and beliefs. I try to understand.
Unless it was shag who said that living in London does not make you British. That may have been cobalt kid. "I know, I didn't mean you I meant some people in general, its the only way they can debate, they try to shut you down. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OK I'll bite. Can we start again. What's the truth about Sweden? they have elections next year and the far right are leading in the polls An why do you think that is ?
In a matter of 5 or 6 years SD, The Sweden Democrats , went from 3% to over 23 % (depending on the poll)
They now are, soon will be, the biggest party in Sweden.
While I dont like their program , they are currently the ONLY party in Sweden that has a realistic view of the country.
To Clarify ! They are not Far right !
The actual program they have is based on the social democrats (Swedish socialists ) from the 50ties!
The Folkhemmet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet
Funny how political "Labels" are misleading.
So how can you label far right , a party that is based on Swedish socialist doctrine ?
Always though centuar and candm were lefties. Too far left that the socialists are far right.
I've said it before on here, go too far left and u end up as the right, they are just labels. What myself and Centaur are, well I presume from his posts, are neither, we are realists with a common sense vision who won't be shouted down by false accusations of racism or whatever
I never called either of you a racist. Well you seem to judge me for political reasons not my race . I just question your thoughts and beliefs. I try to understand.
Unless it was shag who said that living in London does not make you British. That may have been cobalt kid. That wasnt me lol and my thoughts is to bring back sweden to how it was that doesnt make you right or left."Haha of course not. You're in Bromley, Kent? I'm from Catford, gun central of the UK. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OK I'll bite. Can we start again. What's the truth about Sweden? they have elections next year and the far right are leading in the polls An why do you think that is ?
In a matter of 5 or 6 years SD, The Sweden Democrats , went from 3% to over 23 % (depending on the poll)
They now are, soon will be, the biggest party in Sweden.
While I dont like their program , they are currently the ONLY party in Sweden that has a realistic view of the country.
To Clarify ! They are not Far right !
The actual program they have is based on the social democrats (Swedish socialists ) from the 50ties!
The Folkhemmet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet
Funny how political "Labels" are misleading.
So how can you label far right , a party that is based on Swedish socialist doctrine ? "sorry, calling them far right was lazy, I was just using the label the mainstream media have given them  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OK I'll bite. Can we start again. What's the truth about Sweden? they have elections next year and the far right are leading in the polls An why do you think that is ?
In a matter of 5 or 6 years SD, The Sweden Democrats , went from 3% to over 23 % (depending on the poll)
They now are, soon will be, the biggest party in Sweden.
While I dont like their program , they are currently the ONLY party in Sweden that has a realistic view of the country.
To Clarify ! They are not Far right !
The actual program they have is based on the social democrats (Swedish socialists ) from the 50ties!
The Folkhemmet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet
Funny how political "Labels" are misleading.
So how can you label far right , a party that is based on Swedish socialist doctrine ?
Always though centuar and candm were lefties. Too far left that the socialists are far right.
I've said it before on here, go too far left and u end up as the right, they are just labels. What myself and Centaur are, well I presume from his posts, are neither, we are realists with a common sense vision who won't be shouted down by false accusations of racism or whatever
I never called either of you a racist. Well you seem to judge me for political reasons not my race . I just question your thoughts and beliefs. I try to understand.
Unless it was shag who said that living in London does not make you British. That may have been cobalt kid. That wasnt me lol and my thoughts is to bring back sweden to how it was that doesnt make you right or left.
Agree. Same in Britain. Not experienced left and right divide here in the Netherlands. Maybe poor and rich. Ñ"That is right, it depends how the situation is in the country, although if eu would change the law with the times, it woulndt be like it is today. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Correlation does not always equal causation. Deflecting and in Denial again are you ?
Not in denial. Never bothered watching the video s. YouTube is driven by money and ads and subscribers. I managed a similar platform and worked in ads. We drive traffic by segmenting users and give them what they want. Which makes millions.
You are unbelievable !
" Never bothered to watch the videos"
By your own words you admit that these two Quotes define who you are!!!
"You cant argue against a close mind"
or " The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
YOU REFUSE to see any info that you think might contradict you pre conceived ideas !!
That makes you an intellectually dis honest agitator racist!
SHAME on YOU
Here's a video to support your case.
https://youtu.be/E2Vrl576gqM
Wow..
It applies well to you doesn't it ?
Seems I hit a nerve !
And you ran out of valid points !
Signing back in. Glad you enjoyed it. I never had any valid points. Oh the age of miss America correlates with the number of murders from hot objects.
Yes ,instead of valid points you had pre conceived ideas, speculation and denial. And I don't get the miss America diatribe ... so its you going off topic now... ?
No it's you. The discussion is about fact vs opinion and correlation and causation. And that statistics are manipulated to support opinions.
Nicolas cage and miss America are known examples of correlation does not imply causation. Simple mathematics. So in fact any data can be manipulated. It's not ignorance, it's being open that everything is not what it seems.
Answer this. What is my bias?
Your bias , resides in the fact you refuse to accept the mere possibility that Swedish reality is not what people like Shag ( a swede) , or me , that have experienced the country first hand , or disturbing events reported are true!
You prefer to believe the politically correct official state line (propaganda). You label us as right wing conspiracy theory anti immigration/muslim nuts !
lol...Now I have nuts.... but use those for fun , that's why I´m on Fab That is right, they are liberal and lefties and are blind to what is happening there.
Um I'm a lefty by hand. Not by politics. I am a green and not very liberal..Right handed though. What happened to tonys nuts."now i have nuts" "Wow Bob ... seems we have something in common after all I am an avid environmentalist too!
But a pragmatic one at that , very unusual apparently for a guy on the centre right , of the political spectrum | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OK I'll bite. Can we start again. What's the truth about Sweden? they have elections next year and the far right are leading in the polls An why do you think that is ?
In a matter of 5 or 6 years SD, The Sweden Democrats , went from 3% to over 23 % (depending on the poll)
They now are, soon will be, the biggest party in Sweden.
While I dont like their program , they are currently the ONLY party in Sweden that has a realistic view of the country.
To Clarify ! They are not Far right !
The actual program they have is based on the social democrats (Swedish socialists ) from the 50ties!
The Folkhemmet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet
Funny how political "Labels" are misleading.
So how can you label far right , a party that is based on Swedish socialist doctrine ?
sorry, calling them far right was lazy, I was just using the label the mainstream media have given them "
Is that why they call them LAMESTREAM Media ?
Sign of the times ! but not new !
Josef Goebels said it !
" If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OK I'll bite. Can we start again. What's the truth about Sweden? they have elections next year and the far right are leading in the polls An why do you think that is ?
In a matter of 5 or 6 years SD, The Sweden Democrats , went from 3% to over 23 % (depending on the poll)
They now are, soon will be, the biggest party in Sweden.
While I dont like their program , they are currently the ONLY party in Sweden that has a realistic view of the country.
To Clarify ! They are not Far right !
The actual program they have is based on the social democrats (Swedish socialists ) from the 50ties!
The Folkhemmet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet
Funny how political "Labels" are misleading.
So how can you label far right , a party that is based on Swedish socialist doctrine ?
sorry, calling them far right was lazy, I was just using the label the mainstream media have given them
Is that why they call them LAMESTREAM Media ?
Sign of the times ! but not new !
Josef Goebels said it !
" If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth." "“Lügenpresse” | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OK I'll bite. Can we start again. What's the truth about Sweden? they have elections next year and the far right are leading in the polls An why do you think that is ?
In a matter of 5 or 6 years SD, The Sweden Democrats , went from 3% to over 23 % (depending on the poll)
They now are, soon will be, the biggest party in Sweden.
While I dont like their program , they are currently the ONLY party in Sweden that has a realistic view of the country.
To Clarify ! They are not Far right !
The actual program they have is based on the social democrats (Swedish socialists ) from the 50ties!
The Folkhemmet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet
Funny how political "Labels" are misleading.
So how can you label far right , a party that is based on Swedish socialist doctrine ?
sorry, calling them far right was lazy, I was just using the label the mainstream media have given them
Is that why they call them LAMESTREAM Media ?
Sign of the times ! but not new !
Josef Goebels said it !
" If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth." “Lügenpresse”"Jawohl | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OK I'll bite. Can we start again. What's the truth about Sweden? they have elections next year and the far right are leading in the polls An why do you think that is ?
In a matter of 5 or 6 years SD, The Sweden Democrats , went from 3% to over 23 % (depending on the poll)
They now are, soon will be, the biggest party in Sweden.
While I dont like their program , they are currently the ONLY party in Sweden that has a realistic view of the country.
To Clarify ! They are not Far right !
The actual program they have is based on the social democrats (Swedish socialists ) from the 50ties!
The Folkhemmet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkhemmet
Funny how political "Labels" are misleading.
So how can you label far right , a party that is based on Swedish socialist doctrine ?
sorry, calling them far right was lazy, I was just using the label the mainstream media have given them
Is that why they call them LAMESTREAM Media ?
Sign of the times ! but not new !
Josef Goebels said it !
" If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth." “Lügenpresse”
Jawohl "“Lügenpresse” was an important component under propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels . | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Wilders is because both the labour and conservative government ignored the poor. Wilders is using that angle. But he's just another conservative career politician who thinks he has a unique value proposition. But in fact he's a marketing machine." That is possibly true. Again though, the Dutch people have to ask. How did we get to the point where Wilders is leading the polls? I think your first sentence almost answers it correctly. I would just add that it isn't only the poor that have been ignored for years. The middle have been equally ignored. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Wilders is because both the labour and conservative government ignored the poor. Wilders is using that angle. But he's just another conservative career politician who thinks he has a unique value proposition. But in fact he's a marketing machine." so what he's doing is a good thing then? Shouldn't the poor be listened to and doesn't immigration affect the poorest most? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. " The sensible debate is that immigration is a positive force in our economy, more workers, more taxes and more customers. This has been proven again and again and again. The irrational debate about foreigners is "I wouldn't want to live next to Romanians", or "sharia law is coming, run for the hills!", or "they get council houses and benefits from day 1" So which one do you want to have? A sensible debate or an irrational debate? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. The sensible debate is that immigration is a positive force in our economy, more workers, more taxes and more customers. This has been proven again and again and again. The irrational debate about foreigners is "I wouldn't want to live next to Romanians", or "sharia law is coming, run for the hills!", or "they get council houses and benefits from day 1" So which one do you want to have? A sensible debate or an irrational debate?" you obviously don't want a debate  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. The sensible debate is that immigration is a positive force in our economy, more workers, more taxes and more customers. This has been proven again and again and again. The irrational debate about foreigners is "I wouldn't want to live next to Romanians", or "sharia law is coming, run for the hills!", or "they get council houses and benefits from day 1" So which one do you want to have? A sensible debate or an irrational debate? you obviously don't want a debate "I'm happy to debate the facts, that immigration is a net benfit to this country. I believe in evidence based policies and interventions, do you? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. " Agree that there needs to be a debate and an open and inclusive one involving all groups in society, commerce and politicians etc.. The rise of the far right is not however a fiction by the Guardian to sell copy and whilst there are radical extremists in society who want to do us harm it's not as the Mail, Express and others would portray the whole of one religious group whom are of that mindset.. Trying to present an objective view is labelled liberal wishy washy do goodie.. I don't know anyone on the left who supports open door immigration and it's not something on here expressed by many again on the left.. We need immigrants with skills who will contribute and for me they will always be welcome but we also need to accept that some of our own need to get off their arses and also contribute too.. People need to be objective but some have an agenda and that in this age of new speak and false news will only serve to widen any division.. I think views will become more entrenched and if brexit and trump are not a success for the core vote of that, some who want an instant answer to what there lot is and has become of late then it will only be exploited by some to cause further division.. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Wilders is because both the labour and conservative government ignored the poor. Wilders is using that angle. But he's just another conservative career politician who thinks he has a unique value proposition. But in fact he's a marketing machine. That is possibly true. Again though, the Dutch people have to ask. How did we get to the point where Wilders is leading the polls? I think your first sentence almost answers it correctly. I would just add that it isn't only the poor that have been ignored for years. The middle have been equally ignored." Thing with Wilder's and others like him is they only blame foreign people coming and stealing our jobs. The reality of globalisation is often ignored.. You could never call someone like him objective in presenting a balanced view and a progressive programme for dealing with things.. He is of the mindset that fear and division and 'they' are to blame.. Like it or not it's the same tactics used by the likes of Goebell's and others .. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. The sensible debate is that immigration is a positive force in our economy, more workers, more taxes and more customers. This has been proven again and again and again. The irrational debate about foreigners is "I wouldn't want to live next to Romanians", or "sharia law is coming, run for the hills!", or "they get council houses and benefits from day 1" So which one do you want to have? A sensible debate or an irrational debate?" Debating anything with you is akin to wading through treacle but I'll have a go. You say that immigration is a positive force for the economy. I will concede that purely from a growth point of view that is true. The economic activity of every person does effect growth, so more people equals more growth (where do you think Blair's came from?) However the effects on the individual can be completely the opposite. If the population increases in percentage terms by more than the overall growth, then the growth per household actually contract. It's a variation on the old saying that 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. I notice again that you like to throw the old xenophobe and race slurs around and while I am concerned about the rise of Sharia in the west and the behaviour of some (but not all) eastern Europeans, among others, there are, as you know, many more facets to the debate. Despite increased funding (no matter what Corbyn likes to say) the NHS is creaking under the strain and in some areas is close to collapse. The whole infrastructure is being strained and adding another 300,000 or so per year to the population does not do anything to relieve the situation. It only adds to it. But they work and pay taxes you could say. In some cases you would be correct. I'm sure there are many from the EU and elsewhere who have good jobs and pay enough tax and NI to cover themselves. However a sizeable chunk, if not a majority, of the immigrants in the last few years do not. Anyone working on minimum wage, or these days quite a lot for less, either don't pay tax at all or pay such a small amount that it would never cover what they take from the system. Many are so poorly paid that they even qualify for in work benefits. Where is the positive force there? And whether you like it or not, there are still a large number who are just benefit tourists, or worse. I don't think anyone on here (least of all me) is advocating the "bolt the door" solution. I accept that some immigration is for the good of all. However I will never support and open door and all welcome no matter what policy. That is the road to ruin as Sweden is slowly and sadly waking up to. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. Agree that there needs to be a debate and an open and inclusive one involving all groups in society, commerce and politicians etc.. The rise of the far right is not however a fiction by the Guardian to sell copy and whilst there are radical extremists in society who want to do us harm it's not as the Mail, Express and others would portray the whole of one religious group whom are of that mindset.. Trying to present an objective view is labelled liberal wishy washy do goodie.. I don't know anyone on the left who supports open door immigration and it's not something on here expressed by many again on the left.. We need immigrants with skills who will contribute and for me they will always be welcome but we also need to accept that some of our own need to get off their arses and also contribute too.. People need to be objective but some have an agenda and that in this age of new speak and false news will only serve to widen any division.. I think views will become more entrenched and if brexit and trump are not a success for the core vote of that, some who want an instant answer to what there lot is and has become of late then it will only be exploited by some to cause further division.. " I would agree with most of that. Of course there has been a rise in support for the "far" right and papers like the Guardian are fully entitled to report it. Where I disagree is where the line for "far" is drawn. In Germany for example I would call the NPD far right, but not AFD. In Britain I would call the BNP, Britain First and a few others far right, but not UKIP. As there is a moderate left there is also a moderate right and no debate on this subject will go anywhere until both sides accept it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. The sensible debate is that immigration is a positive force in our economy, more workers, more taxes and more customers. This has been proven again and again and again. The irrational debate about foreigners is "I wouldn't want to live next to Romanians", or "sharia law is coming, run for the hills!", or "they get council houses and benefits from day 1" So which one do you want to have? A sensible debate or an irrational debate? Debating anything with you is akin to wading through treacle but I'll have a go. You say that immigration is a positive force for the economy. I will concede that purely from a growth point of view that is true. The economic activity of every person does effect growth, so more people equals more growth (where do you think Blair's came from?) However the effects on the individual can be completely the opposite. If the population increases in percentage terms by more than the overall growth, then the growth per household actually contract. It's a variation on the old saying that 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. I notice again that you like to throw the old xenophobe and race slurs around and while I am concerned about the rise of Sharia in the west and the behaviour of some (but not all) eastern Europeans, among others, there are, as you know, many more facets to the debate. Despite increased funding (no matter what Corbyn likes to say) the NHS is creaking under the strain and in some areas is close to collapse. The whole infrastructure is being strained and adding another 300,000 or so per year to the population does not do anything to relieve the situation. It only adds to it. But they work and pay taxes you could say. In some cases you would be correct. I'm sure there are many from the EU and elsewhere who have good jobs and pay enough tax and NI to cover themselves. However a sizeable chunk, if not a majority, of the immigrants in the last few years do not. Anyone working on minimum wage, or these days quite a lot for less, either don't pay tax at all or pay such a small amount that it would never cover what they take from the system. Many are so poorly paid that they even qualify for in work benefits. Where is the positive force there? And whether you like it or not, there are still a large number who are just benefit tourists, or worse. I don't think anyone on here (least of all me) is advocating the "bolt the door" solution. I accept that some immigration is for the good of all. However I will never support and open door and all welcome no matter what policy. That is the road to ruin as Sweden is slowly and sadly waking up to. " People talk of Sweden based on what they pursue to watch/read in YouTube/tabloids/tv... If I choose to read or watch anything is on the media about serious long term racist problems in Sachsen anhalt for instance, then I will have a narrow minded vision of Germany and think all Germans are racist. I believe the same apply to many here who give credit to trump and garage (I wrote farage but dictionary corrected to garage, interesting) on what they saw on foxtv about problems in a malmoe barrio where there is high migration percentage. Concluding that migration is bad based on that only, not only shows you are narrow minded but proves you are deep down racist. Notice: Calling malmoe the rape capitol of europe when Brighton has worrying numbers of rape cases since year 2000 shows how worried (f)garage is with rape problems in his own nation... If racism was considered a disease, many in this forum would be quarantined. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. The sensible debate is that immigration is a positive force in our economy, more workers, more taxes and more customers. This has been proven again and again and again. The irrational debate about foreigners is "I wouldn't want to live next to Romanians", or "sharia law is coming, run for the hills!", or "they get council houses and benefits from day 1" So which one do you want to have? A sensible debate or an irrational debate? Debating anything with you is akin to wading through treacle but I'll have a go. You say that immigration is a positive force for the economy. I will concede that purely from a growth point of view that is true. The economic activity of every person does effect growth, so more people equals more growth (where do you think Blair's came from?) However the effects on the individual can be completely the opposite. If the population increases in percentage terms by more than the overall growth, then the growth per household actually contract. It's a variation on the old saying that 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. I notice again that you like to throw the old xenophobe and race slurs around and while I am concerned about the rise of Sharia in the west and the behaviour of some (but not all) eastern Europeans, among others, there are, as you know, many more facets to the debate. Despite increased funding (no matter what Corbyn likes to say) the NHS is creaking under the strain and in some areas is close to collapse. The whole infrastructure is being strained and adding another 300,000 or so per year to the population does not do anything to relieve the situation. It only adds to it. But they work and pay taxes you could say. In some cases you would be correct. I'm sure there are many from the EU and elsewhere who have good jobs and pay enough tax and NI to cover themselves. However a sizeable chunk, if not a majority, of the immigrants in the last few years do not. Anyone working on minimum wage, or these days quite a lot for less, either don't pay tax at all or pay such a small amount that it would never cover what they take from the system. Many are so poorly paid that they even qualify for in work benefits. Where is the positive force there? And whether you like it or not, there are still a large number who are just benefit tourists, or worse. I don't think anyone on here (least of all me) is advocating the "bolt the door" solution. I accept that some immigration is for the good of all. However I will never support and open door and all welcome no matter what policy. That is the road to ruin as Sweden is slowly and sadly waking up to. People talk of Sweden based on what they pursue to watch/read in YouTube/tabloids/tv... If I choose to read or watch anything is on the media about serious long term racist problems in Sachsen anhalt for instance, then I will have a narrow minded vision of Germany and think all Germans are racist. I believe the same apply to many here who give credit to trump and garage (I wrote farage but dictionary corrected to garage, interesting) on what they saw on foxtv about problems in a malmoe barrio where there is high migration percentage. Concluding that migration is bad based on that only, not only shows you are narrow minded but proves you are deep down racist. Notice: Calling malmoe the rape capitol of europe when Brighton has worrying numbers of rape cases since year 2000 shows how worried (f)garage is with rape problems in his own nation... If racism was considered a disease, many in this forum would be quarantined." And that comment illustrates exactly why there will be no serious debate on immigration. Opening hand, race card played. Firstly I haven't actually seen any youtube videos about Sweden, I've heard about a few though. Secondly I don't live in Sachsen Anhalt. I don't think immigration is bad, just needs to be controlled, read my post properly. In fact, did you read it at all? I didn't even mention Malmo so why accuse me of basing my comments on it? I only mentioned Sweden at all in the last sentence and I base most of that on what our Swedish neighbours in Spain tell us. A university lecturer (hardly the image of a far right knuckle dragger) who has moved his young family to Spain and commutes from there to work in Sweden. Why? Because his wife and kids no longer fell safe there. In the last year the Swedish residents (not visitors) on our urbanisation has more than doubled and they all tell the same story. Sweden is no longer safe. So you read or watch whatever you like, and you are free to believe whatever you want to. However, I trust my neighbours. I will look up the youtube vid though, just to see what it is all about. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. The sensible debate is that immigration is a positive force in our economy, more workers, more taxes and more customers. This has been proven again and again and again. The irrational debate about foreigners is "I wouldn't want to live next to Romanians", or "sharia law is coming, run for the hills!", or "they get council houses and benefits from day 1" So which one do you want to have? A sensible debate or an irrational debate? Debating anything with you is akin to wading through treacle but I'll have a go. You say that immigration is a positive force for the economy. I will concede that purely from a growth point of view that is true. The economic activity of every person does effect growth, so more people equals more growth (where do you think Blair's came from?) However the effects on the individual can be completely the opposite. If the population increases in percentage terms by more than the overall growth, then the growth per household actually contract. It's a variation on the old saying that 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. I notice again that you like to throw the old xenophobe and race slurs around and while I am concerned about the rise of Sharia in the west and the behaviour of some (but not all) eastern Europeans, among others, there are, as you know, many more facets to the debate. Despite increased funding (no matter what Corbyn likes to say) the NHS is creaking under the strain and in some areas is close to collapse. The whole infrastructure is being strained and adding another 300,000 or so per year to the population does not do anything to relieve the situation. It only adds to it. But they work and pay taxes you could say. In some cases you would be correct. I'm sure there are many from the EU and elsewhere who have good jobs and pay enough tax and NI to cover themselves. However a sizeable chunk, if not a majority, of the immigrants in the last few years do not. Anyone working on minimum wage, or these days quite a lot for less, either don't pay tax at all or pay such a small amount that it would never cover what they take from the system. Many are so poorly paid that they even qualify for in work benefits. Where is the positive force there? And whether you like it or not, there are still a large number who are just benefit tourists, or worse. I don't think anyone on here (least of all me) is advocating the "bolt the door" solution. I accept that some immigration is for the good of all. However I will never support and open door and all welcome no matter what policy. That is the road to ruin as Sweden is slowly and sadly waking up to. People talk of Sweden based on what they pursue to watch/read in YouTube/tabloids/tv... If I choose to read or watch anything is on the media about serious long term racist problems in Sachsen anhalt for instance, then I will have a narrow minded vision of Germany and think all Germans are racist. I believe the same apply to many here who give credit to trump and garage (I wrote farage but dictionary corrected to garage, interesting) on what they saw on foxtv about problems in a malmoe barrio where there is high migration percentage. Concluding that migration is bad based on that only, not only shows you are narrow minded but proves you are deep down racist. Notice: Calling malmoe the rape capitol of europe when Brighton has worrying numbers of rape cases since year 2000 shows how worried (f)garage is with rape problems in his own nation... If racism was considered a disease, many in this forum would be quarantined. And that comment illustrates exactly why there will be no serious debate on immigration. Opening hand, race card played. Firstly I haven't actually seen any youtube videos about Sweden, I've heard about a few though. Secondly I don't live in Sachsen Anhalt. I don't think immigration is bad, just needs to be controlled, read my post properly. In fact, did you read it at all? I didn't even mention Malmo so why accuse me of basing my comments on it? I only mentioned Sweden at all in the last sentence and I base most of that on what our Swedish neighbours in Spain tell us. A university lecturer (hardly the image of a far right knuckle dragger) who has moved his young family to Spain and commutes from there to work in Sweden. Why? Because his wife and kids no longer fell safe there. In the last year the Swedish residents (not visitors) on our urbanisation has more than doubled and they all tell the same story. Sweden is no longer safe. So you read or watch whatever you like, and you are free to believe whatever you want to. However, I trust my neighbours. I will look up the youtube vid though, just to see what it is all about. " I rest my case. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. Agree that there needs to be a debate and an open and inclusive one involving all groups in society, commerce and politicians etc.. The rise of the far right is not however a fiction by the Guardian to sell copy and whilst there are radical extremists in society who want to do us harm it's not as the Mail, Express and others would portray the whole of one religious group whom are of that mindset.. Trying to present an objective view is labelled liberal wishy washy do goodie.. I don't know anyone on the left who supports open door immigration and it's not something on here expressed by many again on the left.. We need immigrants with skills who will contribute and for me they will always be welcome but we also need to accept that some of our own need to get off their arses and also contribute too.. People need to be objective but some have an agenda and that in this age of new speak and false news will only serve to widen any division.. I think views will become more entrenched and if brexit and trump are not a success for the core vote of that, some who want an instant answer to what there lot is and has become of late then it will only be exploited by some to cause further division.. I would agree with most of that. Of course there has been a rise in support for the "far" right and papers like the Guardian are fully entitled to report it. Where I disagree is where the line for "far" is drawn. In Germany for example I would call the NPD far right, but not AFD. In Britain I would call the BNP, Britain First and a few others far right, but not UKIP. As there is a moderate left there is also a moderate right and no debate on this subject will go anywhere until both sides accept it." Agree with that.. It's for the middle ground of either left or right to have more influence and not let the extremes set and guide any agenda.. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. Agree that there needs to be a debate and an open and inclusive one involving all groups in society, commerce and politicians etc.. The rise of the far right is not however a fiction by the Guardian to sell copy and whilst there are radical extremists in society who want to do us harm it's not as the Mail, Express and others would portray the whole of one religious group whom are of that mindset.. Trying to present an objective view is labelled liberal wishy washy do goodie.. I don't know anyone on the left who supports open door immigration and it's not something on here expressed by many again on the left.. We need immigrants with skills who will contribute and for me they will always be welcome but we also need to accept that some of our own need to get off their arses and also contribute too.. People need to be objective but some have an agenda and that in this age of new speak and false news will only serve to widen any division.. I think views will become more entrenched and if brexit and trump are not a success for the core vote of that, some who want an instant answer to what there lot is and has become of late then it will only be exploited by some to cause further division.. I would agree with most of that. Of course there has been a rise in support for the "far" right and papers like the Guardian are fully entitled to report it. Where I disagree is where the line for "far" is drawn. In Germany for example I would call the NPD far right, but not AFD. In Britain I would call the BNP, Britain First and a few others far right, but not UKIP. As there is a moderate left there is also a moderate right and no debate on this subject will go anywhere until both sides accept it. Agree with that.. It's for the middle ground of either left or right to have more influence and not let the extremes set and guide any agenda.." Exactly but that is the whole problem. They won't. The post above illustrates it perfectly. The centre are scared shitless of being labelled racist so they would sooner run away from the debate leaving an open goal for the extremes. And, as I pointed out in the earlier post, that is why we now have Trump and Brexit. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. The sensible debate is that immigration is a positive force in our economy, more workers, more taxes and more customers. This has been proven again and again and again. The irrational debate about foreigners is "I wouldn't want to live next to Romanians", or "sharia law is coming, run for the hills!", or "they get council houses and benefits from day 1" So which one do you want to have? A sensible debate or an irrational debate? Debating anything with you is akin to wading through treacle but I'll have a go. You say that immigration is a positive force for the economy. I will concede that purely from a growth point of view that is true. The economic activity of every person does effect growth, so more people equals more growth (where do you think Blair's came from?) However the effects on the individual can be completely the opposite. If the population increases in percentage terms by more than the overall growth, then the growth per household actually contract. It's a variation on the old saying that 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. I notice again that you like to throw the old xenophobe and race slurs around and while I am concerned about the rise of Sharia in the west and the behaviour of some (but not all) eastern Europeans, among others, there are, as you know, many more facets to the debate. Despite increased funding (no matter what Corbyn likes to say) the NHS is creaking under the strain and in some areas is close to collapse. The whole infrastructure is being strained and adding another 300,000 or so per year to the population does not do anything to relieve the situation. It only adds to it. But they work and pay taxes you could say. In some cases you would be correct. I'm sure there are many from the EU and elsewhere who have good jobs and pay enough tax and NI to cover themselves. However a sizeable chunk, if not a majority, of the immigrants in the last few years do not. Anyone working on minimum wage, or these days quite a lot for less, either don't pay tax at all or pay such a small amount that it would never cover what they take from the system. Many are so poorly paid that they even qualify for in work benefits. Where is the positive force there? And whether you like it or not, there are still a large number who are just benefit tourists, or worse. I don't think anyone on here (least of all me) is advocating the "bolt the door" solution. I accept that some immigration is for the good of all. However I will never support and open door and all welcome no matter what policy. That is the road to ruin as Sweden is slowly and sadly waking up to. People talk of Sweden based on what they pursue to watch/read in YouTube/tabloids/tv... If I choose to read or watch anything is on the media about serious long term racist problems in Sachsen anhalt for instance, then I will have a narrow minded vision of Germany and think all Germans are racist. I believe the same apply to many here who give credit to trump and garage (I wrote farage but dictionary corrected to garage, interesting) on what they saw on foxtv about problems in a malmoe barrio where there is high migration percentage. Concluding that migration is bad based on that only, not only shows you are narrow minded but proves you are deep down racist. Notice: Calling malmoe the rape capitol of europe when Brighton has worrying numbers of rape cases since year 2000 shows how worried (f)garage is with rape problems in his own nation... If racism was considered a disease, many in this forum would be quarantined. And that comment illustrates exactly why there will be no serious debate on immigration. Opening hand, race card played. Firstly I haven't actually seen any youtube videos about Sweden, I've heard about a few though. Secondly I don't live in Sachsen Anhalt. I don't think immigration is bad, just needs to be controlled, read my post properly. In fact, did you read it at all? I didn't even mention Malmo so why accuse me of basing my comments on it? I only mentioned Sweden at all in the last sentence and I base most of that on what our Swedish neighbours in Spain tell us. A university lecturer (hardly the image of a far right knuckle dragger) who has moved his young family to Spain and commutes from there to work in Sweden. Why? Because his wife and kids no longer fell safe there. In the last year the Swedish residents (not visitors) on our urbanisation has more than doubled and they all tell the same story. Sweden is no longer safe. So you read or watch whatever you like, and you are free to believe whatever you want to. However, I trust my neighbours. I will look up the youtube vid though, just to see what it is all about. I rest my case." What case? You have no case. Just chucking the race card on the table and saying that's it, isn't a case. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. Agree that there needs to be a debate and an open and inclusive one involving all groups in society, commerce and politicians etc.. The rise of the far right is not however a fiction by the Guardian to sell copy and whilst there are radical extremists in society who want to do us harm it's not as the Mail, Express and others would portray the whole of one religious group whom are of that mindset.. Trying to present an objective view is labelled liberal wishy washy do goodie.. I don't know anyone on the left who supports open door immigration and it's not something on here expressed by many again on the left.. We need immigrants with skills who will contribute and for me they will always be welcome but we also need to accept that some of our own need to get off their arses and also contribute too.. People need to be objective but some have an agenda and that in this age of new speak and false news will only serve to widen any division.. I think views will become more entrenched and if brexit and trump are not a success for the core vote of that, some who want an instant answer to what there lot is and has become of late then it will only be exploited by some to cause further division.. I would agree with most of that. Of course there has been a rise in support for the "far" right and papers like the Guardian are fully entitled to report it. Where I disagree is where the line for "far" is drawn. In Germany for example I would call the NPD far right, but not AFD. In Britain I would call the BNP, Britain First and a few others far right, but not UKIP. As there is a moderate left there is also a moderate right and no debate on this subject will go anywhere until both sides accept it. Agree with that.. It's for the middle ground of either left or right to have more influence and not let the extremes set and guide any agenda.. Exactly but that is the whole problem. They won't. The post above illustrates it perfectly. The centre are scared shitless of being labelled racist so they would sooner run away from the debate leaving an open goal for the extremes. And, as I pointed out in the earlier post, that is why we now have Trump and Brexit." I see very little middle left in politics. The tories have moved further to the right trying to be ukip light. The left have moved further left in politics with corbyn.The divisiveness has made the middle pick a side .Same in the USA.This isn't going to change soon.The policies of trump and brexit will only fan the flames. Hate racism and xenophobia have always been with us.It took farage and trump and others to bring it to the surface.Until the colour a mans skin has no more significance than the colour of his eyes there will always be war and thats not going to happen anytime soon. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. Agree that there needs to be a debate and an open and inclusive one involving all groups in society, commerce and politicians etc.. The rise of the far right is not however a fiction by the Guardian to sell copy and whilst there are radical extremists in society who want to do us harm it's not as the Mail, Express and others would portray the whole of one religious group whom are of that mindset.. Trying to present an objective view is labelled liberal wishy washy do goodie.. I don't know anyone on the left who supports open door immigration and it's not something on here expressed by many again on the left.. We need immigrants with skills who will contribute and for me they will always be welcome but we also need to accept that some of our own need to get off their arses and also contribute too.. People need to be objective but some have an agenda and that in this age of new speak and false news will only serve to widen any division.. I think views will become more entrenched and if brexit and trump are not a success for the core vote of that, some who want an instant answer to what there lot is and has become of late then it will only be exploited by some to cause further division.. I would agree with most of that. Of course there has been a rise in support for the "far" right and papers like the Guardian are fully entitled to report it. Where I disagree is where the line for "far" is drawn. In Germany for example I would call the NPD far right, but not AFD. In Britain I would call the BNP, Britain First and a few others far right, but not UKIP. As there is a moderate left there is also a moderate right and no debate on this subject will go anywhere until both sides accept it. Agree with that.. It's for the middle ground of either left or right to have more influence and not let the extremes set and guide any agenda.. Exactly but that is the whole problem. They won't. The post above illustrates it perfectly. The centre are scared shitless of being labelled racist so they would sooner run away from the debate leaving an open goal for the extremes. And, as I pointed out in the earlier post, that is why we now have Trump and Brexit." Whilst recognising that the issues with some people's perception of immigration and it's affects on them. Both brexit and trump were about much more than just that.. Trouble is that some didn't see that it's about much much more than just any one issue.. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. The sensible debate is that immigration is a positive force in our economy, more workers, more taxes and more customers. This has been proven again and again and again. The irrational debate about foreigners is "I wouldn't want to live next to Romanians", or "sharia law is coming, run for the hills!", or "they get council houses and benefits from day 1" So which one do you want to have? A sensible debate or an irrational debate? Debating anything with you is akin to wading through treacle but I'll have a go. You say that immigration is a positive force for the economy. I will concede that purely from a growth point of view that is true. The economic activity of every person does effect growth, so more people equals more growth (where do you think Blair's came from?) However the effects on the individual can be completely the opposite. If the population increases in percentage terms by more than the overall growth, then the growth per household actually contract. It's a variation on the old saying that 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. I notice again that you like to throw the old xenophobe and race slurs around and while I am concerned about the rise of Sharia in the west and the behaviour of some (but not all) eastern Europeans, among others, there are, as you know, many more facets to the debate. Despite increased funding (no matter what Corbyn likes to say) the NHS is creaking under the strain and in some areas is close to collapse. The whole infrastructure is being strained and adding another 300,000 or so per year to the population does not do anything to relieve the situation. It only adds to it. But they work and pay taxes you could say. In some cases you would be correct. I'm sure there are many from the EU and elsewhere who have good jobs and pay enough tax and NI to cover themselves. However a sizeable chunk, if not a majority, of the immigrants in the last few years do not. Anyone working on minimum wage, or these days quite a lot for less, either don't pay tax at all or pay such a small amount that it would never cover what they take from the system. Many are so poorly paid that they even qualify for in work benefits. Where is the positive force there? And whether you like it or not, there are still a large number who are just benefit tourists, or worse. I don't think anyone on here (least of all me) is advocating the "bolt the door" solution. I accept that some immigration is for the good of all. However I will never support and open door and all welcome no matter what policy. That is the road to ruin as Sweden is slowly and sadly waking up to. People talk of Sweden based on what they pursue to watch/read in YouTube/tabloids/tv... If I choose to read or watch anything is on the media about serious long term racist problems in Sachsen anhalt for instance, then I will have a narrow minded vision of Germany and think all Germans are racist. I believe the same apply to many here who give credit to trump and garage (I wrote farage but dictionary corrected to garage, interesting) on what they saw on foxtv about problems in a malmoe barrio where there is high migration percentage. Concluding that migration is bad based on that only, not only shows you are narrow minded but proves you are deep down racist. Notice: Calling malmoe the rape capitol of europe when Brighton has worrying numbers of rape cases since year 2000 shows how worried (f)garage is with rape problems in his own nation... If racism was considered a disease, many in this forum would be quarantined. And that comment illustrates exactly why there will be no serious debate on immigration. Opening hand, race card played. Firstly I haven't actually seen any youtube videos about Sweden, I've heard about a few though. Secondly I don't live in Sachsen Anhalt. I don't think immigration is bad, just needs to be controlled, read my post properly. In fact, did you read it at all? I didn't even mention Malmo so why accuse me of basing my comments on it? I only mentioned Sweden at all in the last sentence and I base most of that on what our Swedish neighbours in Spain tell us. A university lecturer (hardly the image of a far right knuckle dragger) who has moved his young family to Spain and commutes from there to work in Sweden. Why? Because his wife and kids no longer fell safe there. In the last year the Swedish residents (not visitors) on our urbanisation has more than doubled and they all tell the same story. Sweden is no longer safe. So you read or watch whatever you like, and you are free to believe whatever you want to. However, I trust my neighbours. I will look up the youtube vid though, just to see what it is all about. I rest my case. What case? You have no case. Just chucking the race card on the table and saying that's it, isn't a case." Lecturing in Sweden? Hope you're not lecturing my son: He loves to have misinformed lecturers for breakfast/dinner/lunch. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. The sensible debate is that immigration is a positive force in our economy, more workers, more taxes and more customers. This has been proven again and again and again. The irrational debate about foreigners is "I wouldn't want to live next to Romanians", or "sharia law is coming, run for the hills!", or "they get council houses and benefits from day 1" So which one do you want to have? A sensible debate or an irrational debate? Debating anything with you is akin to wading through treacle but I'll have a go. You say that immigration is a positive force for the economy. I will concede that purely from a growth point of view that is true. The economic activity of every person does effect growth, so more people equals more growth (where do you think Blair's came from?) However the effects on the individual can be completely the opposite. If the population increases in percentage terms by more than the overall growth, then the growth per household actually contract. It's a variation on the old saying that 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. I notice again that you like to throw the old xenophobe and race slurs around and while I am concerned about the rise of Sharia in the west and the behaviour of some (but not all) eastern Europeans, among others, there are, as you know, many more facets to the debate. Despite increased funding (no matter what Corbyn likes to say) the NHS is creaking under the strain and in some areas is close to collapse. The whole infrastructure is being strained and adding another 300,000 or so per year to the population does not do anything to relieve the situation. It only adds to it. But they work and pay taxes you could say. In some cases you would be correct. I'm sure there are many from the EU and elsewhere who have good jobs and pay enough tax and NI to cover themselves. However a sizeable chunk, if not a majority, of the immigrants in the last few years do not. Anyone working on minimum wage, or these days quite a lot for less, either don't pay tax at all or pay such a small amount that it would never cover what they take from the system. Many are so poorly paid that they even qualify for in work benefits. Where is the positive force there? And whether you like it or not, there are still a large number who are just benefit tourists, or worse. I don't think anyone on here (least of all me) is advocating the "bolt the door" solution. I accept that some immigration is for the good of all. However I will never support and open door and all welcome no matter what policy. That is the road to ruin as Sweden is slowly and sadly waking up to. People talk of Sweden based on what they pursue to watch/read in YouTube/tabloids/tv... If I choose to read or watch anything is on the media about serious long term racist problems in Sachsen anhalt for instance, then I will have a narrow minded vision of Germany and think all Germans are racist. I believe the same apply to many here who give credit to trump and garage (I wrote farage but dictionary corrected to garage, interesting) on what they saw on foxtv about problems in a malmoe barrio where there is high migration percentage. Concluding that migration is bad based on that only, not only shows you are narrow minded but proves you are deep down racist. Notice: Calling malmoe the rape capitol of europe when Brighton has worrying numbers of rape cases since year 2000 shows how worried (f)garage is with rape problems in his own nation... If racism was considered a disease, many in this forum would be quarantined. And that comment illustrates exactly why there will be no serious debate on immigration. Opening hand, race card played. Firstly I haven't actually seen any youtube videos about Sweden, I've heard about a few though. Secondly I don't live in Sachsen Anhalt. I don't think immigration is bad, just needs to be controlled, read my post properly. In fact, did you read it at all? I didn't even mention Malmo so why accuse me of basing my comments on it? I only mentioned Sweden at all in the last sentence and I base most of that on what our Swedish neighbours in Spain tell us. A university lecturer (hardly the image of a far right knuckle dragger) who has moved his young family to Spain and commutes from there to work in Sweden. Why? Because his wife and kids no longer fell safe there. In the last year the Swedish residents (not visitors) on our urbanisation has more than doubled and they all tell the same story. Sweden is no longer safe. So you read or watch whatever you like, and you are free to believe whatever you want to. However, I trust my neighbours. I will look up the youtube vid though, just to see what it is all about. I rest my case. What case? You have no case. Just chucking the race card on the table and saying that's it, isn't a case. Lecturing in Sweden? Hope you're not lecturing my son: He loves to have misinformed lecturers for breakfast/dinner/lunch." I'm not a lecturer in Sweden. Do you ever actually read posts before you answer them? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. The sensible debate is that immigration is a positive force in our economy, more workers, more taxes and more customers. This has been proven again and again and again. The irrational debate about foreigners is "I wouldn't want to live next to Romanians", or "sharia law is coming, run for the hills!", or "they get council houses and benefits from day 1" So which one do you want to have? A sensible debate or an irrational debate? Debating anything with you is akin to wading through treacle but I'll have a go. You say that immigration is a positive force for the economy. I will concede that purely from a growth point of view that is true. The economic activity of every person does effect growth, so more people equals more growth (where do you think Blair's came from?) However the effects on the individual can be completely the opposite. If the population increases in percentage terms by more than the overall growth, then the growth per household actually contract. It's a variation on the old saying that 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. I notice again that you like to throw the old xenophobe and race slurs around and while I am concerned about the rise of Sharia in the west and the behaviour of some (but not all) eastern Europeans, among others, there are, as you know, many more facets to the debate. Despite increased funding (no matter what Corbyn likes to say) the NHS is creaking under the strain and in some areas is close to collapse. The whole infrastructure is being strained and adding another 300,000 or so per year to the population does not do anything to relieve the situation. It only adds to it. But they work and pay taxes you could say. In some cases you would be correct. I'm sure there are many from the EU and elsewhere who have good jobs and pay enough tax and NI to cover themselves. However a sizeable chunk, if not a majority, of the immigrants in the last few years do not. Anyone working on minimum wage, or these days quite a lot for less, either don't pay tax at all or pay such a small amount that it would never cover what they take from the system. Many are so poorly paid that they even qualify for in work benefits. Where is the positive force there? And whether you like it or not, there are still a large number who are just benefit tourists, or worse. I don't think anyone on here (least of all me) is advocating the "bolt the door" solution. I accept that some immigration is for the good of all. However I will never support and open door and all welcome no matter what policy. That is the road to ruin as Sweden is slowly and sadly waking up to. People talk of Sweden based on what they pursue to watch/read in YouTube/tabloids/tv... If I choose to read or watch anything is on the media about serious long term racist problems in Sachsen anhalt for instance, then I will have a narrow minded vision of Germany and think all Germans are racist. I believe the same apply to many here who give credit to trump and garage (I wrote farage but dictionary corrected to garage, interesting) on what they saw on foxtv about problems in a malmoe barrio where there is high migration percentage. Concluding that migration is bad based on that only, not only shows you are narrow minded but proves you are deep down racist. Notice: Calling malmoe the rape capitol of europe when Brighton has worrying numbers of rape cases since year 2000 shows how worried (f)garage is with rape problems in his own nation... If racism was considered a disease, many in this forum would be quarantined. And that comment illustrates exactly why there will be no serious debate on immigration. Opening hand, race card played. Firstly I haven't actually seen any youtube videos about Sweden, I've heard about a few though. Secondly I don't live in Sachsen Anhalt. I don't think immigration is bad, just needs to be controlled, read my post properly. In fact, did you read it at all? I didn't even mention Malmo so why accuse me of basing my comments on it? I only mentioned Sweden at all in the last sentence and I base most of that on what our Swedish neighbours in Spain tell us. A university lecturer (hardly the image of a far right knuckle dragger) who has moved his young family to Spain and commutes from there to work in Sweden. Why? Because his wife and kids no longer fell safe there. In the last year the Swedish residents (not visitors) on our urbanisation has more than doubled and they all tell the same story. Sweden is no longer safe. So you read or watch whatever you like, and you are free to believe whatever you want to. However, I trust my neighbours. I will look up the youtube vid though, just to see what it is all about. I rest my case. What case? You have no case. Just chucking the race card on the table and saying that's it, isn't a case." Wow I started a long discussion. But back to the point. Yes, they see immigrants coming in taking their opportunity. They don't see the effort those immigrants for work. For example, I need to earn above a certain amount, need to be educated to masters level and in an area they have a lack of. But in the UK I studied many years, worked in the industry for 8 years, got promotions. But to a local I just came in and took their job. It's perception. For other immigrants it's different. But they interviewed some Wilders supporter who's never seen a foreigner. They lived in a Dutch town. They just believe what he's saying. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. The sensible debate is that immigration is a positive force in our economy, more workers, more taxes and more customers. This has been proven again and again and again. The irrational debate about foreigners is "I wouldn't want to live next to Romanians", or "sharia law is coming, run for the hills!", or "they get council houses and benefits from day 1" So which one do you want to have? A sensible debate or an irrational debate? Debating anything with you is akin to wading through treacle but I'll have a go. You say that immigration is a positive force for the economy. I will concede that purely from a growth point of view that is true. The economic activity of every person does effect growth, so more people equals more growth (where do you think Blair's came from?) However the effects on the individual can be completely the opposite. If the population increases in percentage terms by more than the overall growth, then the growth per household actually contract. It's a variation on the old saying that 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. I notice again that you like to throw the old xenophobe and race slurs around and while I am concerned about the rise of Sharia in the west and the behaviour of some (but not all) eastern Europeans, among others, there are, as you know, many more facets to the debate. Despite increased funding (no matter what Corbyn likes to say) the NHS is creaking under the strain and in some areas is close to collapse. The whole infrastructure is being strained and adding another 300,000 or so per year to the population does not do anything to relieve the situation. It only adds to it. But they work and pay taxes you could say. In some cases you would be correct. I'm sure there are many from the EU and elsewhere who have good jobs and pay enough tax and NI to cover themselves. However a sizeable chunk, if not a majority, of the immigrants in the last few years do not. Anyone working on minimum wage, or these days quite a lot for less, either don't pay tax at all or pay such a small amount that it would never cover what they take from the system. Many are so poorly paid that they even qualify for in work benefits. Where is the positive force there? And whether you like it or not, there are still a large number who are just benefit tourists, or worse. I don't think anyone on here (least of all me) is advocating the "bolt the door" solution. I accept that some immigration is for the good of all. However I will never support and open door and all welcome no matter what policy. That is the road to ruin as Sweden is slowly and sadly waking up to. People talk of Sweden based on what they pursue to watch/read in YouTube/tabloids/tv... If I choose to read or watch anything is on the media about serious long term racist problems in Sachsen anhalt for instance, then I will have a narrow minded vision of Germany and think all Germans are racist. I believe the same apply to many here who give credit to trump and garage (I wrote farage but dictionary corrected to garage, interesting) on what they saw on foxtv about problems in a malmoe barrio where there is high migration percentage. Concluding that migration is bad based on that only, not only shows you are narrow minded but proves you are deep down racist. Notice: Calling malmoe the rape capitol of europe when Brighton has worrying numbers of rape cases since year 2000 shows how worried (f)garage is with rape problems in his own nation... If racism was considered a disease, many in this forum would be quarantined. And that comment illustrates exactly why there will be no serious debate on immigration. Opening hand, race card played. Firstly I haven't actually seen any youtube videos about Sweden, I've heard about a few though. Secondly I don't live in Sachsen Anhalt. I don't think immigration is bad, just needs to be controlled, read my post properly. In fact, did you read it at all? I didn't even mention Malmo so why accuse me of basing my comments on it? I only mentioned Sweden at all in the last sentence and I base most of that on what our Swedish neighbours in Spain tell us. A university lecturer (hardly the image of a far right knuckle dragger) who has moved his young family to Spain and commutes from there to work in Sweden. Why? Because his wife and kids no longer fell safe there. In the last year the Swedish residents (not visitors) on our urbanisation has more than doubled and they all tell the same story. Sweden is no longer safe. So you read or watch whatever you like, and you are free to believe whatever you want to. However, I trust my neighbours. I will look up the youtube vid though, just to see what it is all about. I rest my case. What case? You have no case. Just chucking the race card on the table and saying that's it, isn't a case. Lecturing in Sweden? Hope you're not lecturing my son: He loves to have misinformed lecturers for breakfast/dinner/lunch. I'm not a lecturer in Sweden. Do you ever actually read posts before you answer them?" Relieves me to know you're not a lecturer in Sweden: I felt hopeless thinking you were one, which is what I understood from how you write... Have you thought of improving your written grammar? You're are too old for that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Relieves me to know you're not a lecturer in Sweden: I felt hopeless thinking you were one, which is what I understood from how you write... Have you thought of improving your written grammar? You're are too old for that. " "I only mentioned Sweden at all in the last sentence and I base most of that on what our Swedish neighbours in Spain tell us. A university lecturer (hardly the image of a far right knuckle dragger) who has moved his young family to Spain and commutes from there to work in Sweden. Why? Because his wife and kids no longer fell safe there" Is that really so difficult to understand? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" And that comment illustrates exactly why there will be no serious debate on immigration. Opening hand, race card played. Firstly I haven't actually seen any youtube videos about Sweden, I've heard about a few though. Secondly I don't live in Sachsen Anhalt. I don't think immigration is bad, just needs to be controlled, read my post properly. In fact, did you read it at all? I didn't even mention Malmo so why accuse me of basing my comments on it? I only mentioned Sweden at all in the last sentence and I base most of that on what our Swedish neighbours in Spain tell us. A university lecturer (hardly the image of a far right knuckle dragger) who has moved his young family to Spain and commutes from there to work in Sweden. Why? Because his wife and kids no longer fell safe there. In the last year the Swedish residents (not visitors) on our urbanisation has more than doubled and they all tell the same story. Sweden is no longer safe. So you read or watch whatever you like, and you are free to believe whatever you want to. However, I trust my neighbours. I will look up the youtube vid though, just to see what it is all about. I rest my case. What case? You have no case. Just chucking the race card on the table and saying that's it, isn't a case. Lecturing in Sweden? Hope you're not lecturing my son: He loves to have misinformed lecturers for breakfast/dinner/lunch. I'm not a lecturer in Sweden. Do you ever actually read posts before you answer them? Relieves me to know you're not a lecturer in Sweden: I felt hopeless thinking you were one, which is what I understood from how you write... Have you thought of improving your written grammar? You're are too old for that. " Maybe you should try and improve your reading. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Relieves me to know you're not a lecturer in Sweden: I felt hopeless thinking you were one, which is what I understood from how you write... Have you thought of improving your written grammar? You're are too old for that. "I only mentioned Sweden at all in the last sentence and I base most of that on what our Swedish neighbours in Spain tell us. A university lecturer (hardly the image of a far right knuckle dragger) who has moved his young family to Spain and commutes from there to work in Sweden. Why? Because his wife and kids no longer fell safe there" Is that really so difficult to understand?" Maybe your Swedish neighbors in Spain should have been more proactive towards integration rather than moving out: Following that logic, I see then moving out of Spain too to America. I understand your neighbors are maybe not too old (I though I wrote "not too old" in my previous post) but narrow minded. I somehow live in Sweden (my son studies there) and find it progressive and very very very safe, in fact I get my hair cutted in the so called "no go" zones, where I can also get the most delicious kebaps. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. The sensible debate is that immigration is a positive force in our economy, more workers, more taxes and more customers. This has been proven again and again and again. The irrational debate about foreigners is "I wouldn't want to live next to Romanians", or "sharia law is coming, run for the hills!", or "they get council houses and benefits from day 1" So which one do you want to have? A sensible debate or an irrational debate? Debating anything with you is akin to wading through treacle but I'll have a go. You say that immigration is a positive force for the economy. I will concede that purely from a growth point of view that is true. The economic activity of every person does effect growth, so more people equals more growth (where do you think Blair's came from?) However the effects on the individual can be completely the opposite. If the population increases in percentage terms by more than the overall growth, then the growth per household actually contract. It's a variation on the old saying that 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. I notice again that you like to throw the old xenophobe and race slurs around and while I am concerned about the rise of Sharia in the west and the behaviour of some (but not all) eastern Europeans, among others, there are, as you know, many more facets to the debate. Despite increased funding (no matter what Corbyn likes to say) the NHS is creaking under the strain and in some areas is close to collapse. The whole infrastructure is being strained and adding another 300,000 or so per year to the population does not do anything to relieve the situation. It only adds to it. But they work and pay taxes you could say. In some cases you would be correct. I'm sure there are many from the EU and elsewhere who have good jobs and pay enough tax and NI to cover themselves. However a sizeable chunk, if not a majority, of the immigrants in the last few years do not. Anyone working on minimum wage, or these days quite a lot for less, either don't pay tax at all or pay such a small amount that it would never cover what they take from the system. Many are so poorly paid that they even qualify for in work benefits. Where is the positive force there? And whether you like it or not, there are still a large number who are just benefit tourists, or worse. I don't think anyone on here (least of all me) is advocating the "bolt the door" solution. I accept that some immigration is for the good of all. However I will never support and open door and all welcome no matter what policy. That is the road to ruin as Sweden is slowly and sadly waking up to. " I didn't call anyone racist or xenophobic in my post so I don't know why you are accusing me of that. I thought we were trying to have a sensible debate here, yet you are the ones applying labels to yourself and trying to paint yourself as a victim. The point about the NHS that you have totally missed is the thousands of immigrants, EU and non, that work in the NHS. Without them it simply wouldn't function. Migrants fund the NHS, and work in the NHS, and the data says that they are not a drain on the NHS. I agree that the NHS is at breaking point, but this isn't the first time or the last, it happens every time we have a Tory government. How many are so poorly paid that they need in-work benefits? Have you got a figure? Do you know the rules about eligibility for them, when can they claim them? Why should we even have such a thing as in work benefits for any UK worker? Why should the tax payer essentially pay for companies to insufficiently pay their staff? If the minimum wage isn't enough, then raise the minimum wage. You know that the UK has never had a open doors policy right? 50% of immigration comes from non-EU countries which the government has always had full control over. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. The sensible debate is that immigration is a positive force in our economy, more workers, more taxes and more customers. This has been proven again and again and again. The irrational debate about foreigners is "I wouldn't want to live next to Romanians", or "sharia law is coming, run for the hills!", or "they get council houses and benefits from day 1" So which one do you want to have? A sensible debate or an irrational debate? Debating anything with you is akin to wading through treacle but I'll have a go. You say that immigration is a positive force for the economy. I will concede that purely from a growth point of view that is true. The economic activity of every person does effect growth, so more people equals more growth (where do you think Blair's came from?) However the effects on the individual can be completely the opposite. If the population increases in percentage terms by more than the overall growth, then the growth per household actually contract. It's a variation on the old saying that 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. I notice again that you like to throw the old xenophobe and race slurs around and while I am concerned about the rise of Sharia in the west and the behaviour of some (but not all) eastern Europeans, among others, there are, as you know, many more facets to the debate. Despite increased funding (no matter what Corbyn likes to say) the NHS is creaking under the strain and in some areas is close to collapse. The whole infrastructure is being strained and adding another 300,000 or so per year to the population does not do anything to relieve the situation. It only adds to it. But they work and pay taxes you could say. In some cases you would be correct. I'm sure there are many from the EU and elsewhere who have good jobs and pay enough tax and NI to cover themselves. However a sizeable chunk, if not a majority, of the immigrants in the last few years do not. Anyone working on minimum wage, or these days quite a lot for less, either don't pay tax at all or pay such a small amount that it would never cover what they take from the system. Many are so poorly paid that they even qualify for in work benefits. Where is the positive force there? And whether you like it or not, there are still a large number who are just benefit tourists, or worse. I don't think anyone on here (least of all me) is advocating the "bolt the door" solution. I accept that some immigration is for the good of all. However I will never support and open door and all welcome no matter what policy. That is the road to ruin as Sweden is slowly and sadly waking up to. I didn't call anyone racist or xenophobic in my post so I don't know why you are accusing me of that. I thought we were trying to have a sensible debate here, yet you are the ones applying labels to yourself and trying to paint yourself as a victim. The point about the NHS that you have totally missed is the thousands of immigrants, EU and non, that work in the NHS. Without them it simply wouldn't function. Migrants fund the NHS, and work in the NHS, and the data says that they are not a drain on the NHS. I agree that the NHS is at breaking point, but this isn't the first time or the last, it happens every time we have a Tory government. How many are so poorly paid that they need in-work benefits? Have you got a figure? Do you know the rules about eligibility for them, when can they claim them? Why should we even have such a thing as in work benefits for any UK worker? Why should the tax payer essentially pay for companies to insufficiently pay their staff? If the minimum wage isn't enough, then raise the minimum wage. You know that the UK has never had a open doors policy right? 50% of immigration comes from non-EU countries which the government has always had full control over." "The irrational debate about foreigners is "I wouldn't want to live next to Romanians", or "sharia law is coming, run for the hills!", or "they get council houses and benefits from day 1" So that isn't an accusation of xenophobia then? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's funny (nay scary really) that the left, including mainstream media, are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and start chucking labels at anyone or organisation or political party that doesn't fit into their agenda. Far Right, Alt Right, Fascist, Nazi, have all been chucked around at anything and everything. Trump, Brexit, UKIP, Marine le Penn, Wilders, AFD, criticism of Sweden, I could go on. The point they all miss (well with one or two rare exceptions) is why and how we got here. Whether we like it or not, immigration is the issue and has been for decades. Over the years many have tried to open a sensible debate on the subject only to be constantly shouted down as racist every time that they did. Mainstream politicians have always had this "we know best" attitude and along with the, mostly, liberal media have done everything they can to shut down any debate. Well now it has well and truly bitten them on the arse. However they never learn. We are still hearing the same old rhetoric. Racist, Nazi, Etc Etc. is pretty much all that they can come up with. I'm fully aware that quite a few on here support uncontrolled immigration but the vast majority of the public at large do not. Their stance may vary from "some controls" to "bolt the door" but it is only a very small (although loud) minority who support the open door. I would have thought (hoped) that Brexit, Trump, Sweden Etc. would have made the mainstream (both politicians and media) take a long hard look in the mirror and ask, as I did above, how the hell did we get here? Then let's have a sensible debate on the whole subject of immigration starting with a clean piece of paper. Unless that happens it will only get worse with two polarised sides and chaos in the middle. The sensible debate is that immigration is a positive force in our economy, more workers, more taxes and more customers. This has been proven again and again and again. The irrational debate about foreigners is "I wouldn't want to live next to Romanians", or "sharia law is coming, run for the hills!", or "they get council houses and benefits from day 1" So which one do you want to have? A sensible debate or an irrational debate? Debating anything with you is akin to wading through treacle but I'll have a go. You say that immigration is a positive force for the economy. I will concede that purely from a growth point of view that is true. The economic activity of every person does effect growth, so more people equals more growth (where do you think Blair's came from?) However the effects on the individual can be completely the opposite. If the population increases in percentage terms by more than the overall growth, then the growth per household actually contract. It's a variation on the old saying that 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. I notice again that you like to throw the old xenophobe and race slurs around and while I am concerned about the rise of Sharia in the west and the behaviour of some (but not all) eastern Europeans, among others, there are, as you know, many more facets to the debate. Despite increased funding (no matter what Corbyn likes to say) the NHS is creaking under the strain and in some areas is close to collapse. The whole infrastructure is being strained and adding another 300,000 or so per year to the population does not do anything to relieve the situation. It only adds to it. But they work and pay taxes you could say. In some cases you would be correct. I'm sure there are many from the EU and elsewhere who have good jobs and pay enough tax and NI to cover themselves. However a sizeable chunk, if not a majority, of the immigrants in the last few years do not. Anyone working on minimum wage, or these days quite a lot for less, either don't pay tax at all or pay such a small amount that it would never cover what they take from the system. Many are so poorly paid that they even qualify for in work benefits. Where is the positive force there? And whether you like it or not, there are still a large number who are just benefit tourists, or worse. I don't think anyone on here (least of all me) is advocating the "bolt the door" solution. I accept that some immigration is for the good of all. However I will never support and open door and all welcome no matter what policy. That is the road to ruin as Sweden is slowly and sadly waking up to. I didn't call anyone racist or xenophobic in my post so I don't know why you are accusing me of that. I thought we were trying to have a sensible debate here, yet you are the ones applying labels to yourself and trying to paint yourself as a victim. The point about the NHS that you have totally missed is the thousands of immigrants, EU and non, that work in the NHS. Without them it simply wouldn't function. Migrants fund the NHS, and work in the NHS, and the data says that they are not a drain on the NHS. I agree that the NHS is at breaking point, but this isn't the first time or the last, it happens every time we have a Tory government. How many are so poorly paid that they need in-work benefits? Have you got a figure? Do you know the rules about eligibility for them, when can they claim them? Why should we even have such a thing as in work benefits for any UK worker? Why should the tax payer essentially pay for companies to insufficiently pay their staff? If the minimum wage isn't enough, then raise the minimum wage. You know that the UK has never had a open doors policy right? 50% of immigration comes from non-EU countries which the government has always had full control over. "The irrational debate about foreigners is "I wouldn't want to live next to Romanians", or "sharia law is coming, run for the hills!", or "they get council houses and benefits from day 1" So that isn't an accusation of xenophobia then?" It's quotes from people like Farage. I therefore must assume that you find Farage xenophobic then!
https://youtu.be/rVWxecdUCm4 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
